Warriors & Thinkers Featuring Gregory S. Cooke and Dedrick Asante-Muhammad

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Hello, welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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So today I have two guests, two gentlemen who coming on the program.

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One has done a film that he's been working on for a long, long time and just got released this year.

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And another gentleman who has taken over an organization that's been around for over a half century.

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And, well, he's been there for a couple years, but he's still relatively new.

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And I wanted to highlight him and the work that they are doing on behalf of black folks.

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So I hope that you enjoy the show and get something out of that.

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But, again, I ask y'all to continue to support this podcast.

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As always, we ask for subscriptions or, you know, get more people to listen

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or whatever you feel we need to support this podcast.

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You can go to www.momenterik.com. That's www.momenterik.com.

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And, you know, show their support.

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Check out any past episodes, whole nine yards, you know, the routine.

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Just greatly appreciate what y'all can do and just appreciate y'all listening.

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All right. I don't really have a whole lot to say right now,

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but I'll say something later.

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So let's go ahead and start this program. And as always, we kick it off with

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a moment of news with Grace G. .

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Thanks, Erik. Bill and Hillary Clinton testified before the U.S.

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House of Representatives Oversight Committee in Chappaqua, New York,

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concerning their relationship with sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.

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In a record-breaking State of the Union address, President Trump touted the

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dawn of a golden age and highlighted economic achievements to bolster his standing

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ahead of the midterms, despite facing low approval ratings and significant policy setbacks.

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President Trump raised import tariffs to a legal maximum of 15 percent,

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using a rarely-invoked law after the Supreme Court struck down his previous program.

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Law enforcement officers fatally shot an armed 21-year-old man after he breached

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a security perimeter at President Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort while the president was away in Washington.

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A federal judge struck down a Trump administration policy that allowed for the

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rapid deportation of migrants to third-party countries.

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Despite community concerns surrounding the discovery of Kyle Basinga's body

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hanging from a tree in a Georgia park, local authorities have ruled his death a suicide.

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U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon permanently barred the Justice Department

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from releasing a report on the dismissed classified documents case against President Trump.

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Notorious drug lord El Mencho was killed during a Mexican military raid in Tapalpa,

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Jalisco in an intense U.S.-Mexico joint

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effort to combat cartel activity Nick Reiner pleaded not guilty to first-degree

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murder charges for the fatal December stabbing of his parents filmmaker Rob

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Reiner and producer Michelle Reiner in their Los Angeles home A massive blizzard paralyzed the U.S.

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Northeast with record-breaking snowfall and high winds, causing thousands of

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flight cancellations and leaving over 600,000 customers without power.

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And South Carolina's measles outbreak has reached 979 cases.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for

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our guest, Gregory S. Cooke.

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Gregory S. Cooke has dedicated his life as an educator and historian to help

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relocate African-Americans to the main pages of history.

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He directed Invisible Warriors, African-American Women in World War II,

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a critically acclaimed documentary about 600,000 Rosie The Rivoters who triumphed

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over systemic barriers to help win the war while securing new employment opportunities

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in industry and government for themselves and future generations of Black women.

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To support Rosie's legacy, the Basil and Becky Educational Foundation established

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April 5th as National Black Women's Labor Day.

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Some accomplishments include a President's Lifetime Achievement Award,

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Library of Congress Teaching with Primary Sources, a National World War II Museum

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Advisory Board member, Fighting for the Right to Fight.

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Inaugural recipient of the Better Angels Levine Ken Burns Fellowship,

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and the Congressional Black Caucus Veterans Brain Trust Award.

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The Kingdom of the Netherlands was the largest contributor to Invisible Warriors completion.

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Gregory has spoken at more than 90 educational, cultural, and corporate venues,

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has numerous media appearances, including CBS Saturday Morning and Turner Classic Movies.

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His expertise about African-American participation in World War II has been

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featured in documentaries, The Women of World War II,

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World War II Battles in Color, The Bulge, and My Father's War,

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How Pearl Harbor Transformed America.

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He is the Associate Director on Chocolate Soldiers from the USA.

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Gregory earned his B.A. in English at American International College and an M.A.

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In Journalism at The Ohio State University.

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Gregory helps former students navigate life and teaches them about the spiritual ways of the force.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Gregory S. Cooke.

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All right. Gregory S. Cooke. How you doing, sir? You doing good? I'm doing good.

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Everything's good. I'm good. And I want to thank you for having me on your podcast

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and giving me the opportunity to spread the word about Invisible Warriors,

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African-American women in World War II.

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Well, I'm honored to have you on and it was a privilege to be able to see it.

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And we're going to get into it a little bit because I love history, man.

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I'm a big fan of history and especially ours.

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And considering that this is the 100th anniversary of us celebrating Black history,

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it's really, really a treat to have you on.

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But I usually start off the show with a couple of icebreakers.

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So the first icebreaker is what I call a quote. Well, what I call what it is is a quote.

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So this is this is the quote I want you to respond to.

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The contribution of Black women is one which this nation would be unwise to

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forget or evaluate falsely.

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Women generally, and African-American women in particular, have played a major

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role in the development and construction of this country.

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We've been here for 400 years, and about 250 years of that labor and support

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and construction was as enslaved, unpaid workers, laborers.

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And so it's very important, I think, in this time in particular,

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where African-American women get their just due in terms of their contributions.

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And this group of women in particular, the 600,000 Black Rosies who helped win World War II,

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is very significant because a lot of people, a lot of change is on their shoulders.

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And we're standing on their shoulders.

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I think arguably they're the most significant group of Black women post-enslavement

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because there were so many of them, 600,000, that's a lot.

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And that they were the ones who opened up, who were the first in mass to open

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up doors of opportunity in government offices and factories and shipyards.

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And there was this slogan during the war, like, we can do it.

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And clearly these women could do it, and they did it, but they proved that they could do it.

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And I think to ignore their contributions is, again, cheating all Americans

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about what America is, how it got to be the way it is.

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And so I would pretty much agree with that statement.

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All right. So now the next icebreaker is what we call 20 questions.

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So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

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11. All right. Where do you go to check a fact that you see, hear, or read?

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It really depends upon context. So, for example, in the work,

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in a lot of the work I do, it has, you know, related to World War II.

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And so there's a number of sources I can use, like Department of Defense,

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sometimes even Wikipedia, because I know I already know some things,

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and I know so much about the subject, I can tell whether or not it's accurate.

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Library of Congress, a multitude, you know, various texts that I have.

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One of the things that I've used over the years, it's called The Deployment

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of Negro Troops in World War II, and it's basically a study or a Bible,

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so to speak, of African-American participation in World War II.

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So those are places I can go. I have a vast library of books and other sources

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about the subjects that I've talked about, written about, et cetera.

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All right. So your mother was one of the 600,000 Black women in the World War

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II effort that this documentary pays tribute to. Was she the inspiration for the film?

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Actually, if I'm going to be honest, no, she wasn't. She didn't become that

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inspiration until I was in the film.

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My mother transitioned in 2006. I started working on the film in 2009, I believe.

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And so I got into it because of some research I was doing and because of some

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issues I had working on another documentary.

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And so I got into it primarily because some research I was doing in Great Britain.

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During World War II, there were like 140,000 African-American men and women

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stationed in Great Britain Most of them prior to D-Day So while I'm doing research on that,

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I run across an article about British war workers, the women their version of the Rosies.

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And it's been a long time ago, but somehow or another, I ran across a book called Bitter Fruit by Dr.

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Maureen Honey, who's also in the documentary.

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And she talks about in that book, African-American Rosies, what they did,

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their narratives, their letters written into newspapers, et cetera.

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And so when I read that, I remembered a story my mother used to tell me.

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When I was three or four years old, she was a stay-at-home mom. And.

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She used to tell me this story about how when she was 18 years old,

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she rode on her suitcase, on her suitcase, from Norfolk, Virginia to Washington, D.C.

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To get her very first job as a clerk typist in the U.S. Patent Office.

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And that story came to me. The reason I remembered the story was because of her train ride.

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You know, I didn't know what a clerk typist was. She never told me she was riding

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in a Jim Crow car, going to a deeply segregated and racist Washington,

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D.C. It was the train ride.

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And so she told me this story.

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And so about a year or so after working on this project, I got,

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you know, and getting a better understanding of who Rosie is,

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where I realized she was a Rosie.

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And she didn't know it. like most of the black women I've encountered,

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they did not know that they had done something historically significant.

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But I remember as a kid when my mother talked about it, how her face would light up.

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And I also was able to put some pieces together.

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1943 meant she was 18 years old, right in the middle of World War II. And so...

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From that point on, she was an inspiration. I wanted to tell her story as much as I could.

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I wish I had asked her more about World War II, but that's life.

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And I didn't get a chance to or think about it really until I started this project.

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And by then, she had already transitioned.

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But I'm very proud of the fact that my mother was a Rosie.

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And I sometimes wonder how my life would have changed or how different it would

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have been had she not made that train ride, because she met my father in Washington,

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D.C. during the war, you know.

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And so coming from the Jim Crow South, if she did not have the courage to take

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that train ride, there's no telling how my life would have been different.

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So for most of this journey, and it took me 16 years from the time of my first

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interview, which was with Dr.

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Dorothy Height, National Council of Negro Women, to three weeks ago when it

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went public, so to speak, 16 years.

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My mother has become a major inspirational force for me.

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And when I do public speaking about this, I always take her picture and show her picture.

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Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's cool to find out that your parents did something,

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you know, because we just know them as our parents.

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And then when you really prod them and poke them a little bit,

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it's like, oh, you did that or you were involved in that? Oh,

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okay. Right. Yeah. Right.

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We are very fortunate that many of the women that you highlighted in the film

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live long lives to have their story told.

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So you said it took you 16 years to put this together.

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What were some of what were some of the challenges you faced in the production of this documentary?

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I would say primarily one. I didn't have resources.

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You know, if someone had, you know, plopped down $175,000 right in front of

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me and said, make this documentary, it would have been done in 2011, right?

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But I didn't have the resources. A lot of this came out of my own pocket.

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My late mother and her uncle and her brother, my uncle, basically gave me the

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seed money to start this.

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And meaning that it was money that my mother left me and that's what I used it for, right?

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And so I started an educational nonprofit called Basil and Becky Educational

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Foundation. Basil was my uncle, Becky, my mother, her, you know, they were siblings.

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And so the biggest challenge was funding.

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And I'm still in that mode to do some other things with this.

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And I think there's been,

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I guess disappointment is probably the right word, but not to the point where

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it ever got me down, because I'm the type of person, if I start something,

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I'm going to do my damnedest to finish it, you know.

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But I didn't get a lot of financial support from generally the Black community.

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And part of that is on me. This is a brand, something I'd never done before.

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Reaching out and asking people for money is not one of my strong suits.

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So part of that is on me. But what I also know is Or believe that If I had the

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money and the documentary Was finished in 2011 I don't think it was the right

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historic moment To get the exposure it has since gotten I believe that.

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The documentary came about, came to the public eye post-George Floyd.

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And I think George Floyd was this moment of seeing, and all these other things came off of it.

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It became this moment of seeing about what America is, what it has been,

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who has done what, who has contributed.

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And so because there was this heightened sense of awareness, I believe,

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in the black community specifically and in the larger American community generally,

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I think that was a much better time for it to, you know,

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mature and come to fruition than had I had all the money up front and it would

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have been done in maybe 2011 or 12.

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Yeah. So, you know, things work out the way they're supposed to work out, I believe.

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And also, this is the longest journey, specific journey I've taken in my life.

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And if you had told me this is going to take 16 years, it's going to be a struggle

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financially, blah, blah, blah.

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I'm not sure I would have done it, to be honest. You know, I'm not sure I would have.

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That's a long time out of anybody's life to work on one project that you still

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don't know if it's going to come to fruition.

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But I'm a person of deep faith and belief in the divine forces and in myself.

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And so I stayed with it.

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And so what we have today is a critically acclaimed, illuminating story about 600,000 black women.

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And it's also worth noting that there's so many of us as black people today,

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particularly I'm a baby boomer.

00:21:22.213 --> 00:21:25.313
So if you're a baby boomer or maybe even a little bit younger,

00:21:25.593 --> 00:21:28.413
these women were in your family, right?

00:21:28.413 --> 00:21:35.793
I mean, according to the 1940 census, more than 80% of all Black women were

00:21:35.793 --> 00:21:40.293
either sharecroppers or domestic servants in the home of whites, right?

00:21:40.453 --> 00:21:44.173
Both of my grandmothers were domestics, right?

00:21:44.693 --> 00:21:49.733
And that was, for the most part, what was open to a Black woman en masse.

00:21:49.733 --> 00:21:56.453
And so there are people who are still with us today who have that legacy in

00:21:56.453 --> 00:22:01.293
their families of them being sharecroppers, of them being domestic servants.

00:22:01.513 --> 00:22:04.093
And so I think...

00:22:06.028 --> 00:22:11.528
Getting this out to the public so that people could see their own story in this

00:22:11.528 --> 00:22:17.828
has been a major challenge, but the biggest challenge was creating it.

00:22:18.128 --> 00:22:22.248
Getting it out into the public has been a bit easier because people want to

00:22:22.248 --> 00:22:24.888
see, okay, what have you done?

00:22:25.348 --> 00:22:29.368
And I can show people what I've done. And it hasn't just me.

00:22:29.448 --> 00:22:32.568
There are a whole lot of people who helped me, and I want to make that clear.

00:22:32.568 --> 00:22:36.648
There's a whole lot of people who helped me, seen and unseen.

00:22:37.328 --> 00:22:42.908
And the ancestors were with me on this. I think my mother was with me on this.

00:22:43.088 --> 00:22:49.568
You know, so it wasn't just me. I was just the vessel to get this thing done.

00:22:49.728 --> 00:22:56.848
But long, long story, long answer to a short question. But the biggest obstacle was resources.

00:22:57.788 --> 00:23:02.348
Yeah, yeah. So we're kindred spirits, Brother Cooke, in that.

00:23:02.568 --> 00:23:06.408
You know, I believe that there's a time and a season for everything.

00:23:06.928 --> 00:23:12.548
And I think you eloquently explained why this documentary is timely now.

00:23:12.768 --> 00:23:17.388
And also somebody that's been in politics for a long time. Yeah,

00:23:17.508 --> 00:23:19.108
I hate asking people for money.

00:23:19.368 --> 00:23:21.588
I just, you know, it's just terrible.

00:23:23.648 --> 00:23:28.468
It's a tough thing to do so i definitely feel you on that and you kind of led

00:23:28.468 --> 00:23:34.468
into my next question about how was world war ii a game changer for these black

00:23:34.468 --> 00:23:43.308
women okay well world war ii was the most significant event in human history um,

00:23:44.260 --> 00:23:49.680
There's nothing else that's comparable that comes close. When I talk sometimes

00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:54.040
and give a PowerPoint, I have a basketball sitting beside a marble.

00:23:54.040 --> 00:23:57.740
I have an image of a basketball sitting beside a marble.

00:23:58.800 --> 00:24:05.260
The basketball is World War II. The marble is any other event in human history. Okay.

00:24:05.980 --> 00:24:12.040
World War II involved more people doing more things, more money,

00:24:12.300 --> 00:24:17.860
more killing, more destruction, more innovation, more human movement, more, more, more.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.280
The numbers related to World War II are astronomical.

00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:28.780
In today's money, for example, World War II plus $4 trillion in today's money.

00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:35.780
Somewhere between 50 and 73 million people were killed, which was three and

00:24:35.780 --> 00:24:39.880
a half, about three and a half percent of the human population. Okay.

00:24:40.340 --> 00:24:46.760
So I try to look at things like nothing is ever all good or nothing's ever all bad.

00:24:47.060 --> 00:24:54.360
And while the catalyst for World War II was colonialism, white supremacy,

00:24:54.360 --> 00:24:59.300
and those kinds of things, right, some good stuff came out of World War II.

00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:04.640
It began the process of getting the European colonialists off the necks of black

00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.100
tropes and colored people around the world.

00:25:08.026 --> 00:25:12.826
1.1 million African-Americans served in the U.S. military.

00:25:13.406 --> 00:25:18.466
And so that's significant because for the first time in mass,

00:25:19.126 --> 00:25:22.626
Black people are getting paid the same thing as whites, right?

00:25:22.806 --> 00:25:27.806
So if you're a sergeant in the U.S. Army, all sergeants, you know,

00:25:27.906 --> 00:25:30.326
three stripes, all sergeants got the same pay.

00:25:30.746 --> 00:25:34.166
Didn't matter whether you're Black, white, whatever, you got the same pay.

00:25:34.366 --> 00:25:38.606
If you were a government worker, like my mother, a clerk type,

00:25:38.686 --> 00:25:44.506
if you were GS level two or three, whatever it was, everybody got paid.

00:25:45.086 --> 00:25:51.946
Everybody who's GS two or three, everybody got the same, paid the same thing. That was huge.

00:25:52.546 --> 00:25:59.406
And so World War II was a game changer because it gave black people skills and

00:25:59.406 --> 00:26:04.586
confidence that they could use and do, right?

00:26:04.826 --> 00:26:11.446
It's not a coincidence that the spearheads of the civil rights movement that

00:26:11.446 --> 00:26:17.686
started after the war, many of the men were World War II veterans, okay?

00:26:17.966 --> 00:26:22.446
Medgar Evers came ashore in France shortly after D-Day.

00:26:22.986 --> 00:26:28.566
Ralph Abernathy, Fred Sheldersworth. They were in the military during World War II, right?

00:26:28.806 --> 00:26:35.846
Some of them went overseas and saw, particularly those who went to Great Britain prior to D-Day,

00:26:36.126 --> 00:26:40.986
because they saw for the first time in their lives, there were white people

00:26:40.986 --> 00:26:46.546
who treated them as Americans, as allies, and as human beings.

00:26:46.546 --> 00:26:52.146
And the white Brits were inviting black soldiers, men and women,

00:26:52.286 --> 00:26:56.126
into their homes, into their churches. They were dancing with them.

00:26:56.286 --> 00:27:00.446
They were interacting with them in pubs. And so it gave.

00:27:01.338 --> 00:27:06.878
Hundreds of thousands of black people, men and women, an opportunity to see

00:27:06.878 --> 00:27:13.078
all white folks not like the white folks in the USA, and that there were greater possibilities, right?

00:27:13.278 --> 00:27:17.178
It also gave them the opportunity to see some of the world and see some of the

00:27:17.178 --> 00:27:24.138
oppression in other places that was largely based upon economic and color lines, okay?

00:27:24.678 --> 00:27:27.978
So World War II was huge.

00:27:27.978 --> 00:27:36.178
It gave black people who were in the military the GI Bill Now there's an asterisk beside that.

00:27:36.978 --> 00:27:39.698
Most of the black people who were in the

00:27:39.698 --> 00:27:46.298
military Did not get a chance to use the GI Bill The GI Bill was a sweetheart

00:27:46.298 --> 00:27:52.038
of a deal So if you were in the military and you got discharged honorably You

00:27:52.038 --> 00:27:58.098
were eligible for a cheap mortgage and free education You'd go to a college, trade school.

00:27:58.278 --> 00:28:01.278
You could also get cheap loans to start a business, right?

00:28:02.018 --> 00:28:07.358
The World War II generation is the most subsidized generation in American history,

00:28:07.998 --> 00:28:09.458
okay, those who fought the war.

00:28:09.538 --> 00:28:13.418
And that was their gift from the government, from the American people.

00:28:13.638 --> 00:28:19.938
However, if you are African American in big northern cities,

00:28:20.178 --> 00:28:25.038
more often than not, you could not get a mortgage because you lived in an area

00:28:25.038 --> 00:28:26.958
that was redlined by the banks.

00:28:27.198 --> 00:28:33.018
And so that basically meant you didn't, that banks didn't lend money within that.

00:28:33.138 --> 00:28:37.518
They would take a map of a community, draw a red line around it on a map.

00:28:37.658 --> 00:28:42.838
And basically, if you live within that red line, you weren't eligible for a

00:28:42.838 --> 00:28:47.938
bank loan because the GI Bill and other government programs were administered

00:28:47.938 --> 00:28:51.058
through the private sector like banks. Okay.

00:28:52.462 --> 00:28:56.582
But nonetheless, you still got, I don't know what the numbers are.

00:28:56.642 --> 00:29:01.022
I've never been able to find the numbers, but I'm confident in saying you got

00:29:01.022 --> 00:29:07.382
thousands and thousands of black men and women who did use the GI Bill for college education.

00:29:07.382 --> 00:29:11.562
And some did were able to buy houses, but, you know,

00:29:11.862 --> 00:29:19.022
we weren't able to use it with the same degree of success as white GIs and, and, you know,

00:29:19.242 --> 00:29:24.622
who, who also fought in the war, but it was still a game changer because thousands

00:29:24.622 --> 00:29:28.622
upon thousands of black men and women were able to get free educations.

00:29:28.782 --> 00:29:33.602
And there's no way they would have been able to do that had there not been a war.

00:29:33.602 --> 00:29:42.102
And again, you have these people laying their lives on the line and they come

00:29:42.102 --> 00:29:44.782
back and say, you know, we're not going to take this anymore.

00:29:45.082 --> 00:29:50.342
It took another 10 years really before Rosa Parks did her thing on the bus that

00:29:50.342 --> 00:29:52.842
really jumped kickstart the civil rights movement.

00:29:53.042 --> 00:29:59.282
But in so many ways it started during the war. But we kind of look at the Rosa

00:29:59.282 --> 00:30:04.222
Parks thing as jump-starting what we now call the Civil Rights Movement.

00:30:04.422 --> 00:30:08.962
But the war also was a big game-changer because after the war,

00:30:09.082 --> 00:30:13.722
Harry Truman, 1948, desegregated the military.

00:30:14.222 --> 00:30:16.482
And that opened up opportunities.

00:30:17.162 --> 00:30:20.222
And it was also I don't think it

00:30:20.222 --> 00:30:23.222
was mostly altruistic I think you can't hold

00:30:23.222 --> 00:30:26.222
yourself up as a beacon of freedom and have like you know

00:30:26.222 --> 00:30:29.962
9% of your population in

00:30:29.962 --> 00:30:35.402
a caste system in an inescapable caste system you know and the Cold War has

00:30:35.402 --> 00:30:40.442
started so you're now fighting the communists and that ideology and you can't

00:30:40.442 --> 00:30:48.602
it didn't make sense the optics of it weren't good So Harry Truman desegregated the military in 1948,

00:30:48.782 --> 00:30:50.822
and that was a big game changer. So...

00:30:51.607 --> 00:30:55.867
But I think for the women, again, it let them know that they could do things.

00:30:55.967 --> 00:31:00.987
I mean, the best way to gain self-confidence is by successfully doing.

00:31:01.207 --> 00:31:06.887
And you had women building airplanes, helping build ships.

00:31:08.607 --> 00:31:12.487
Whatever men were doing, whatever was needed for World War II,

00:31:12.627 --> 00:31:14.127
there were women doing it.

00:31:14.287 --> 00:31:18.627
And in many cases, there were Black women doing it. There were a handful of

00:31:18.627 --> 00:31:24.607
codebreakers, black women, codebreakers in Washington, D.C., right?

00:31:25.147 --> 00:31:30.267
They had mathematics backgrounds, and they had degrees, but they started off

00:31:30.267 --> 00:31:36.827
doing things like mopping floors until somebody kind of discovered them, I guess, right?

00:31:37.067 --> 00:31:41.987
So it was a game-changer for everybody, and we're still getting the reverberations

00:31:41.987 --> 00:31:47.067
of World War II. and unfortunately the,

00:31:47.727 --> 00:31:55.387
Many of the lessons of World War II have not been learned, and that is why we are where we are today.

00:31:55.667 --> 00:31:59.947
And there's a blueprint, and that blueprint is being carried out.

00:32:00.747 --> 00:32:08.507
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, one of the ironies, I lived a long time in Jackson,

00:32:08.647 --> 00:32:12.787
Mississippi. I went to school there and lived there for about 30-some years.

00:32:14.087 --> 00:32:16.827
And when i went to jackson i went to

00:32:16.827 --> 00:32:19.667
jack excuse me for interrupting i went to jackson state for a minute

00:32:19.667 --> 00:32:22.667
okay yeah well that's where i graduated from yeah so

00:32:22.667 --> 00:32:25.467
okay walter payton was in my class i'm sorry

00:32:25.467 --> 00:32:28.387
all right okay all right

00:32:28.387 --> 00:32:31.287
now that was a fact i did not find in the research okay

00:32:31.287 --> 00:32:34.787
cool so you understand so there's on

00:32:34.787 --> 00:32:37.667
state street north state street there's a

00:32:37.667 --> 00:32:40.807
area that has a historical placard that says GI

00:32:40.807 --> 00:32:43.927
subdivision so that GI subdivision was

00:32:43.927 --> 00:32:47.607
all white and now it's now it's all black so

00:32:47.607 --> 00:32:50.727
the the black folks got eventually got

00:32:50.727 --> 00:32:54.247
those houses that were set up for for for

00:32:54.247 --> 00:32:59.587
GIs but like you said it wasn't initially designated for black folks at that

00:32:59.587 --> 00:33:04.447
time the other cool thing is that I don't know if it's the writer or director

00:33:04.447 --> 00:33:08.547
in you but it seems like you've got of hold of my notes because your answer

00:33:08.547 --> 00:33:10.927
led to yet another question.

00:33:12.307 --> 00:33:16.127
Many of us equate the civil rights movement to the late 50s,

00:33:16.347 --> 00:33:18.927
like you said, and throughout the 1960s.

00:33:19.187 --> 00:33:23.587
However, you document the fact that World War II was really a catalyst for change

00:33:23.587 --> 00:33:25.387
in America concerning civil rights.

00:33:25.567 --> 00:33:29.767
So since you kind of started on that, you know, and talking about Megger,

00:33:30.367 --> 00:33:34.147
kind of elaborate a little more on the significance because one of the things

00:33:34.147 --> 00:33:38.167
that caught my attention because I, you know, I knew about the.

00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:47.130
The summer of 1919, they called it a red summer where we had all those riots and stuff in the cities.

00:33:47.390 --> 00:33:51.290
But 1943 was kind of a significant year in that, too.

00:33:51.970 --> 00:33:56.130
Yes, yes. Well, there are a lot of things going on.

00:33:56.130 --> 00:34:03.590
So, for example, the Pittsburgh Courier, that was one of the prominent black newspapers of the day,

00:34:03.950 --> 00:34:09.310
started a campaign in January 42, a month after Pearl Harbor,

00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:11.670
and it was called the Double V Campaign.

00:34:11.670 --> 00:34:19.010
And it started because a black man wrote a letter in to the paper.

00:34:19.530 --> 00:34:26.310
And basically he said, should I be fighting for, as half American,

00:34:26.590 --> 00:34:28.110
should I be fighting for this country?

00:34:28.270 --> 00:34:35.010
He raised these questions. And clearly he's attacking discrimination, racial violence, etc.

00:34:35.370 --> 00:34:42.510
Jim Crow, right? And so he raises these questions. And is this a country worth fighting for?

00:34:42.730 --> 00:34:48.050
And after the war is over, he raises the question, will I get my just due as

00:34:48.050 --> 00:34:49.230
having been a participant?

00:34:49.670 --> 00:34:54.530
And so as a result of that, the Pittsburgh Couriers started what was called

00:34:54.530 --> 00:35:01.510
the Double V Campaign. It was very popular and successful in the black community across the country.

00:35:01.870 --> 00:35:08.490
The double V stood for victory over Nazism and fascism abroad and victory over

00:35:08.490 --> 00:35:13.650
racism and Jim Crow at home because black people were fighting two wars on two

00:35:13.650 --> 00:35:16.170
fronts, as we have always done.

00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:25.730
And so that's clearly civil rights pushing back against the status quo of black folks here in the U.S.

00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:31.680
You had other incidents of rebellions, Fort Devens, Massachusetts,

00:35:32.020 --> 00:35:36.260
you know, and I think of all this as civil rights is pushing back black women

00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:38.200
who were WACs, Women's Army Corps.

00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:43.560
They were stationed there and they were being assigned menial duties,

00:35:44.120 --> 00:35:50.620
you know, sweeping, mopping, tending to the bunks and what have you of white women.

00:35:51.220 --> 00:35:56.820
And they rebelled. Some of them refused to do that. They were court-martialed

00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.040
and dealt with very harshly, okay?

00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.660
So you get this pushback from Black people throughout the war.

00:36:05.040 --> 00:36:09.320
And then you also have a pushback from whites.

00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.920
Historically, whenever there's this perception in America of Black folks taking

00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:20.560
one step forward, there's this concerted effort to push us back, too, or three.

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:29.520
And you mentioned 1943. 1943 may have been the most racially violent year of the 20th century.

00:36:29.720 --> 00:36:37.140
And I don't count, I don't consider the incidences of the 1960s and early 70s

00:36:37.140 --> 00:36:40.720
as riots. I see them as urban rebellions.

00:36:41.786 --> 00:36:47.746
During World War II, there were riots by white people, overwhelmingly white males,

00:36:48.066 --> 00:36:51.206
because, you know, males are the ones who do this kind of stuff generally,

00:36:51.206 --> 00:36:56.926
pushing back against what they perceived as black progress.

00:36:57.166 --> 00:37:03.246
The most notable example was in Detroit, June 1943.

00:37:03.886 --> 00:37:10.286
Now, keep in mind, the black population in Detroit increased by 50,000 during World War II, right?

00:37:10.286 --> 00:37:16.006
They came primarily from the South, you know, to get jobs in aircraft factories,

00:37:16.606 --> 00:37:20.226
other types of jobs, tank factories, et cetera.

00:37:20.526 --> 00:37:25.126
But that also put pressure on housing, education.

00:37:25.546 --> 00:37:32.426
And so white folks who were already in Detroit pushed back against that. So in June of 43...

00:37:34.125 --> 00:37:40.225
There was a large scale, and I will call it a riot, by whites against local blacks.

00:37:40.485 --> 00:37:45.865
There were 22 black people killed in Detroit during the time that that happened.

00:37:46.385 --> 00:37:49.845
Franklin Roosevelt, President Franklin Roosevelt, had to call in the U.S.

00:37:49.965 --> 00:37:52.285
Army to maintain law and order.

00:37:53.245 --> 00:37:57.465
Okay. You also, and so that was the climate throughout the war.

00:37:57.585 --> 00:38:02.945
There was a major strike and racial strife in Philadelphia, where I'm from.

00:38:03.605 --> 00:38:07.645
PTC, which was the Philadelphia Transportation Company, now SEPTA,

00:38:08.205 --> 00:38:13.705
in August of 44, hired the first black motorman to run the trolleys.

00:38:13.865 --> 00:38:19.485
The all-white union went on strike and tied up the city.

00:38:19.645 --> 00:38:26.405
Now, during the war, Philadelphia had the largest, most diverse industrial war base in the country.

00:38:26.585 --> 00:38:31.265
And so these folks went on strike, tied up the city because there was no public

00:38:31.265 --> 00:38:34.045
transportation. people had problems getting to work.

00:38:34.685 --> 00:38:39.805
So again, Roosevelt called in the military and the commanding general basically

00:38:39.805 --> 00:38:44.005
said, y'all got two days to come back to work or you're going to find yourself overseas.

00:38:44.465 --> 00:38:48.725
Guess what happened? The strike. But those are just two examples.

00:38:48.925 --> 00:38:51.205
There were issues in Harlem.

00:38:51.545 --> 00:38:56.645
There was an issue in Baltimore where black women, sorry, white women at Western

00:38:56.645 --> 00:38:59.145
electric. They made electronic components.

00:38:59.485 --> 00:39:05.225
They went on strike because they didn't want to share toilet facilities with Black women.

00:39:05.365 --> 00:39:09.105
And there were fireworks all over Baltimore anyway during the war.

00:39:09.285 --> 00:39:14.785
Again, FDR sent the military into Baltimore to maintain law and order. So.

00:39:15.680 --> 00:39:23.160
So I think, you know, the war was significant in terms of the civil rights movement.

00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:28.920
It fueled it. It got people to thinking after the war, like, we contributed.

00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:33.760
We lost our lives. We shed our blood. We helped win battles.

00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:37.300
We helped build what FDR called the arsenal of democracy.

00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:40.680
It's time. And we're not going to the back of the bus.

00:39:40.780 --> 00:39:43.580
We're not going to be content in the back of the bus anymore.

00:39:43.580 --> 00:39:50.620
I also want to point out Rosa Parks wasn't rosy, okay, down in Alabama.

00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:57.580
Yeah. So I think, you know, the Civil Rights Movement had a lot of steam and energy.

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.780
A. Philip Randolph, okay, 1941. A.

00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.820
Philip Randolph called the first march on Washington. It was supposed to be

00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:08.620
for June, I think, of 1941.

00:40:09.240 --> 00:40:15.640
He called for 100,000 Negroes to come to Washington to protest against hiring

00:40:15.640 --> 00:40:20.500
practices in the federal government because FDR was one of the few people who

00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:23.320
knew U.S. was going to get involved in the war.

00:40:23.500 --> 00:40:28.180
And so he had started kind of ramping up for that before Pearl Harbor as much

00:40:28.180 --> 00:40:30.660
as he could, as much as Congress will allow him.

00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:36.680
And so A. Philip Randolph, who's president of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters.

00:40:37.907 --> 00:40:43.567
Called a strike, he called for black folks to come to Washington, and FDR blinked.

00:40:43.687 --> 00:40:51.167
And as a result of that, he signed Executive Order 8802, which banned discriminatory

00:40:51.167 --> 00:40:53.447
hiring practice in defense industries.

00:40:54.467 --> 00:40:58.587
And so it was the march that never was.

00:40:59.167 --> 00:41:05.707
But that was huge in terms of like helping lay the foundation or another brick,

00:41:05.747 --> 00:41:09.567
if you will, in the civil rights movement that really took off,

00:41:09.567 --> 00:41:11.787
you know, post-World War II.

00:41:13.107 --> 00:41:18.287
Yeah. Many of us were enlightened by the story of the 6888 last year,

00:41:18.507 --> 00:41:20.867
but many of the other stories that

00:41:20.867 --> 00:41:24.787
you brought forward have either been forgotten or not properly retold.

00:41:25.147 --> 00:41:30.047
Why do you think that is and what can be done to make sure that these stories are always remembered?

00:41:30.047 --> 00:41:39.107
I think that is because if your agenda is to oppress and subjugate people,

00:41:39.387 --> 00:41:47.887
why would you tell them or do anything or educate them in any way that could be possibly uplifting?

00:41:48.887 --> 00:41:55.647
We have a 400-year history and record here of our relationship to the country.

00:41:56.167 --> 00:42:00.887
And the overwhelming amount of evidence says that.

00:42:02.042 --> 00:42:06.582
We have been second-class citizens. We've been denied the rights of what it

00:42:06.582 --> 00:42:08.282
meant to be an American, et cetera.

00:42:08.762 --> 00:42:18.462
So to me, it makes perfect sense that the people who oppress you have no reason

00:42:18.462 --> 00:42:22.462
to do anything to uplift you, to tell you about your history,

00:42:22.822 --> 00:42:26.822
to tell you what you're capable of doing.

00:42:27.022 --> 00:42:31.922
That would be counter to what their primary motivation narrative is.

00:42:32.042 --> 00:42:39.602
So it makes sense to me now in terms of what we can do about that i think ultimately.

00:42:40.442 --> 00:42:47.902
It's on us as as african-american people it's on us and ultimately it always

00:42:47.902 --> 00:42:53.362
means putting your money where your mouth is in so many other ways because everything

00:42:53.362 --> 00:42:57.622
costs money someone has to do it and everyone has to eat.

00:42:57.962 --> 00:43:03.022
And I'm trying to keep this as basic as possible. You know, you have to invest

00:43:03.022 --> 00:43:08.082
in your future. You have to invest in the future of your children.

00:43:08.662 --> 00:43:13.642
We're in Black History Month. When I grew up, it was called Negro History Week.

00:43:14.342 --> 00:43:20.682
And the only two Black people I ever, I was ever taught about in school was Booker D.

00:43:20.822 --> 00:43:28.922
Washington and George Washington Carver. And we would hear the same tired book reports every year.

00:43:29.661 --> 00:43:33.101
And so I grew up believing up

00:43:33.101 --> 00:43:39.221
until I got to a certain age that that's who we were. That's all I knew.

00:43:39.901 --> 00:43:46.401
Maybe, I'm not sure I taught for years, but maybe today all people know is Martin

00:43:46.401 --> 00:43:51.341
Luther King in place of Booker T and George Washington Carver.

00:43:51.981 --> 00:43:54.721
And then in my view is he, Dr.

00:43:54.861 --> 00:44:00.721
King is not given an accurate narrative about who he was or maybe how he evolved.

00:44:01.401 --> 00:44:05.941
Cause when he died, he had moved beyond. I have a dream when he was killed.

00:44:05.941 --> 00:44:11.701
I should say he wasn't at, I have a dream in 68. He had evolved.

00:44:13.221 --> 00:44:17.921
So what can be done about it? There are things like the work you do.

00:44:18.813 --> 00:44:23.993
There are millions of platforms. There are all kinds of platforms now to get

00:44:23.993 --> 00:44:25.973
our message out, to teach.

00:44:26.953 --> 00:44:35.073
And sadly, there's an alarming number of articles being produced talking about

00:44:35.073 --> 00:44:40.493
how young people, I guess it's Gen Z, do not read.

00:44:41.373 --> 00:44:46.113
They don't read. I've seen articles, and I'm going somewhere with this.

00:44:46.113 --> 00:44:51.393
I've seen articles that say many students at elite universities,

00:44:51.733 --> 00:44:57.253
and I interpret that to mean parenthetically white, at Ivy League schools,

00:44:57.473 --> 00:44:59.533
have never read a complete book.

00:44:59.993 --> 00:45:04.153
And they get to college and their professor wants them to read a complete book.

00:45:04.173 --> 00:45:05.413
And they've never done it.

00:45:05.493 --> 00:45:13.133
And they find it very difficult to do. And my belief is that we're going to have to educate them,

00:45:13.893 --> 00:45:18.993
younger people, through audiovisual materials, like what you're doing,

00:45:19.293 --> 00:45:22.613
like what other people are doing, like Invisible Warriors.

00:45:22.933 --> 00:45:27.453
Invisible Warriors, for the last four years, this will be the fifth year,

00:45:27.613 --> 00:45:33.933
is part of the curriculum at 12 Corner Middle School, which is part of Brighton

00:45:33.933 --> 00:45:36.373
Central School District in Rochester, New York.

00:45:36.373 --> 00:45:40.333
Overwhelmingly white, but they've been showing the documentary.

00:45:40.513 --> 00:45:43.533
I've spoken a couple of times. They've been gathering data on it,

00:45:44.033 --> 00:45:45.233
et cetera, et cetera, for me.

00:45:45.453 --> 00:45:50.913
It should be this and all other kinds of things should be in school districts,

00:45:51.173 --> 00:45:57.573
school systems, but we are in a period of, um, of going backward.

00:45:58.433 --> 00:46:03.513
And I have doubts and I've had doubts most of my life.

00:46:03.693 --> 00:46:12.473
If we are, we collectively, as African-American people, are on the right path in terms of equality.

00:46:13.700 --> 00:46:21.540
Because if you can, if in one year, you can kind of, in so many ways,

00:46:21.740 --> 00:46:28.580
push Black folks back to Woodrow Wilson, you know, who, what does that tell you?

00:46:29.120 --> 00:46:35.320
And the historic record says every time we move forward, there's this tremendous pushback.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.960
I jokingly tell people this is Barack Obama's fault. You know,

00:46:41.380 --> 00:46:45.200
if there was no Barack, I believe if there was no Barack Obama,

00:46:45.600 --> 00:46:48.980
we wouldn't have the situation we have now.

00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:54.920
Right. And those two men are 180 degrees apart from each other, you know.

00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:03.340
So it's up to us to educate and do what we can do and reward people,

00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:05.740
you know, through scholarships,

00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:15.760
through academic support who might want to major in American history or African-American studies.

00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:25.300
Or do things in the community that are not just in February but are year-round because I think.

00:47:26.637 --> 00:47:30.297
I don't believe there is a thing called Black history. I mean,

00:47:30.477 --> 00:47:34.797
I honor it and respect it, but there's American history, right?

00:47:35.737 --> 00:47:39.557
That's really what it is. We are Americans.

00:47:40.817 --> 00:47:46.137
We've been here from day one. We are responsible for the wealth of this country.

00:47:47.837 --> 00:47:55.777
There's American history. And so I think we need to do things to push harder,

00:47:56.117 --> 00:48:01.817
make our elected officials responsible and responsive to our needs because they

00:48:01.817 --> 00:48:04.957
show up in the church every four years or whatever it is.

00:48:05.057 --> 00:48:07.377
And then it is what it is.

00:48:08.277 --> 00:48:13.197
Yeah. Yeah. I feel on that. On the reading part, I remember growing up,

00:48:13.477 --> 00:48:17.277
you know, there was a saying that if you wanted to keep a secret from a black

00:48:17.277 --> 00:48:18.957
person, you put it in a book.

00:48:19.397 --> 00:48:22.477
So I was like, oh, I don't want anybody keeping any secrets from me.

00:48:22.557 --> 00:48:25.297
So that's why I used to be a voracious reader when I was younger.

00:48:25.397 --> 00:48:28.957
So I definitely understand the concern about that.

00:48:29.832 --> 00:48:33.372
So let's close this out. I've got a couple more questions. Sure.

00:48:33.592 --> 00:48:38.352
Talk to the listeners about the work of the Basil and Becky Educational Foundation

00:48:38.352 --> 00:48:40.932
and why you started that organization.

00:48:40.932 --> 00:48:46.432
Now, you gave a background of the origin of the name and the resources that

00:48:46.432 --> 00:48:50.472
helped you start it, but what was the motivation for you to do this work,

00:48:50.572 --> 00:48:52.332
and what exactly does the foundation do?

00:48:52.992 --> 00:48:59.872
Okay. The original motivation was to help get funding for the documentary so

00:48:59.872 --> 00:49:04.312
people could donate to Basil and Becky Educational Foundation.

00:49:04.932 --> 00:49:09.112
They could donate and get a tax write-off for donating.

00:49:09.352 --> 00:49:14.732
And Basil and Becky Educational Foundation is fundamentally like a co-producer of the documentary.

00:49:14.972 --> 00:49:17.952
So that's what it originally was for.

00:49:18.392 --> 00:49:22.292
But I got bigger ideas as we went along.

00:49:22.292 --> 00:49:29.332
And I felt that it could be a good vehicle, it could be a good educational vehicle

00:49:29.332 --> 00:49:33.852
to spread the word not only about the Roses but about our history generally.

00:49:34.172 --> 00:49:38.712
And so one of the things that Basel & Becky Educational Foundation sponsors

00:49:38.712 --> 00:49:42.652
and supports is now called National Black Women's Labor Day,

00:49:42.692 --> 00:49:47.092
which we founded, we have our third anniversary coming up on April 6th.

00:49:47.152 --> 00:49:50.952
It's normally April 5th, but this year the 5th is on Easter Sunday,

00:49:50.952 --> 00:49:53.232
so we decided to push things back a day.

00:49:53.372 --> 00:49:58.932
But the Basil and Becky Educational Foundation and National Black Women's Labor Day,

00:49:59.132 --> 00:50:04.492
we set it up as a holiday so that Black people and especially Black women could

00:50:04.492 --> 00:50:11.592
get attention and kudos for their 403 years of contribution, labor,

00:50:12.072 --> 00:50:15.472
innovation, patriotism, and support of this country.

00:50:15.632 --> 00:50:20.892
And so we're in the fundraising mode. But what we want to do through Basel and

00:50:20.892 --> 00:50:27.652
Becky over the next three years is to raise $600,000 so that we can screen.

00:50:28.662 --> 00:50:34.102
Invisible Warriors, African-American women in World War II, to places like community

00:50:34.102 --> 00:50:40.942
organizations, underprivileged, underfunded community organizations, museums.

00:50:41.902 --> 00:50:46.862
Institutions, cultural institutions of that nature who do not have the funds

00:50:46.862 --> 00:50:51.242
to pay me to screen and speak, etc.

00:50:51.782 --> 00:50:57.362
Ultimately, I'd like to, in a way, give it away, but I'm still paying people.

00:50:57.362 --> 00:50:59.522
You know, I still owe people.

00:50:59.642 --> 00:51:04.602
And so I'm not in a position to do that. But I do. It's gotten rave reviews.

00:51:05.162 --> 00:51:09.242
I've screened and talked about it. More than 90 institutions.

00:51:09.602 --> 00:51:14.362
The Dutch government is that was the leading contributor to the documentary.

00:51:14.362 --> 00:51:22.042
And I recently met with the Dutch ambassador in Washington in November, and we talked about it.

00:51:22.162 --> 00:51:28.642
I gave her a DVD, and the branding image is hanging in the Dutch embassy in

00:51:28.642 --> 00:51:32.702
Washington. So that's what we're doing. And I need support.

00:51:32.962 --> 00:51:41.222
We've asked everybody to donate at least $6, symbolic of the 600,000 black women.

00:51:41.382 --> 00:51:47.922
And you got to know that, you know, we, all of us as black people,

00:51:48.042 --> 00:51:51.482
but especially black women are standing on their shoulders.

00:51:51.482 --> 00:51:58.562
And look at these women went from the fields and kitchens to factories and government

00:51:58.562 --> 00:52:01.762
offices to vice president of the United States.

00:52:02.822 --> 00:52:06.942
In a relatively short period of time, 80 years is not a long time,

00:52:07.042 --> 00:52:11.022
is not really a long time in a historical sense. Right.

00:52:11.462 --> 00:52:17.222
And I need the support to do that. And I think when so what we're trying to

00:52:17.222 --> 00:52:21.762
do, what we're working on for National Black Women's Labor Day this year is

00:52:21.762 --> 00:52:22.902
to get a couple of museums.

00:52:23.891 --> 00:52:30.971
Involved with us to have national screens. We are having a national screening on April 6th.

00:52:31.111 --> 00:52:35.071
The details are being put together, but it will be $26.

00:52:35.771 --> 00:52:41.831
And this is all part of helping us get Invisible Warriors out to the public,

00:52:42.011 --> 00:52:47.231
out to these organizations and nonprofits who just don't have the resources.

00:52:48.331 --> 00:52:55.231
Yeah. All right. So I need you to finish this sentence. I have hope because.

00:52:57.291 --> 00:53:03.691
I have hope because there are laws in the universe, and I believe there's a

00:53:03.691 --> 00:53:09.051
divine force that plays out.

00:53:10.046 --> 00:53:15.466
And that what we put out must come back.

00:53:16.666 --> 00:53:22.206
It has, you know, that applies in what we call physics, the law of attraction.

00:53:22.806 --> 00:53:28.706
And I believe this is divine force that's been walking with me on this all my life, actually.

00:53:28.986 --> 00:53:34.746
All my life in protecting me and giving me the strength and the courage to keep

00:53:34.746 --> 00:53:37.326
going forward when it was just me.

00:53:37.326 --> 00:53:43.926
And I have hope that that force is on my side,

00:53:44.146 --> 00:53:53.806
it's on our side of people of African descent, and that when you do what we humans call evil,

00:53:54.146 --> 00:53:58.446
you are eventually the victims of your evil.

00:53:58.446 --> 00:54:07.146
And when you do what we humans call good, you eventually are the beneficiaries of your goodness.

00:54:07.246 --> 00:54:15.566
You just have to have the faith so that you're patient enough to let the energy

00:54:15.566 --> 00:54:18.686
of the universe play itself out.

00:54:18.946 --> 00:54:22.566
It is in play now. It is obvious to me.

00:54:22.866 --> 00:54:25.846
And that's why I have hope. Yeah.

00:54:26.606 --> 00:54:29.706
Well, Gregory S. Cooke, I really appreciate this.

00:54:29.906 --> 00:54:33.466
If people want to get in touch with you, if people want to donate to the foundation,

00:54:33.466 --> 00:54:40.306
people want to get a screening of the movie Invisible Warriors, how can they do all that?

00:54:41.046 --> 00:54:43.266
The quickest way is to go to the website.

00:54:44.795 --> 00:54:52.675
B-B-E-E-F dot org. That's Bravo, Bravo, Echo, Echo, Foxtrot.

00:54:52.955 --> 00:54:56.435
Two B's, two E's, one F dot O-R-G.

00:54:56.895 --> 00:55:00.035
And you'll see pages and links. You can see the trailer.

00:55:00.355 --> 00:55:04.355
You can see people who are already involved, what we've done in the past,

00:55:04.435 --> 00:55:08.315
what we want to do, what we're doing now, where we want to go with all this.

00:55:08.895 --> 00:55:12.975
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Brother Cooke, I greatly appreciate the time.

00:55:12.975 --> 00:55:19.575
I appreciate you coming on the podcast, and I greatly appreciate you putting this documentary out.

00:55:19.775 --> 00:55:21.815
It's very powerful.

00:55:22.095 --> 00:55:27.655
And ladies and gentlemen, it's not that long, but it's worth watching.

00:55:27.995 --> 00:55:32.075
And again, thank you so much for doing this and coming on this podcast.

00:55:32.675 --> 00:55:36.155
Thank you, and I really appreciate it. Thank you to your listeners.

00:55:36.375 --> 00:55:40.975
Thank you to you for having me on and giving me the opportunity to spread the

00:55:40.975 --> 00:55:43.435
word about our history and culture. and my mom.

00:55:43.775 --> 00:55:50.315
And I would encourage everybody to ask questions about a lot of people have

00:55:50.315 --> 00:55:52.915
Rosies in their families and don't know it.

00:55:53.075 --> 00:55:58.935
And you can start that conversation by asking what did mom, grandma,

00:55:59.255 --> 00:56:01.755
great-grandmom do during World War II?

00:56:01.935 --> 00:56:05.815
And often the answer will surprise you. Yeah.

00:56:06.595 --> 00:56:09.955
All right, guys. On that note, we're going to catch y'all on the.

00:56:29.825 --> 00:56:34.365
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest.

00:56:35.245 --> 00:56:37.245
Dedrick Asante Muhammad.

00:56:37.825 --> 00:56:43.345
Dedrick Asante Muhammad is the president of the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies.

00:56:43.645 --> 00:56:49.185
For the past 20 years, Asante Muhammad has dedicated his career to understanding

00:56:49.185 --> 00:56:52.025
and tackling racial and economic inequities. equities.

00:56:52.765 --> 00:56:58.605
Asante Mohammed joins the Joint Center from the Racial Economic Equity and Research

00:56:58.605 --> 00:57:04.485
at the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, where he was vice president.

00:57:05.105 --> 00:57:10.165
During Asante Mohammed's tenure at NCRC, he oversaw Fair Lending,

00:57:10.405 --> 00:57:15.745
Fair Housing, the Women's Business Center of D.C., National Training Academy,

00:57:16.265 --> 00:57:21.225
the Housing Counseling Network, and started the Racial Economic Equity Department.

00:57:21.585 --> 00:57:28.225
As Chief of Membership Policy and Equity at NCRC, Asante Muhammad oversaw membership

00:57:28.225 --> 00:57:30.525
organizing research and policy.

00:57:31.139 --> 00:57:37.819
Asante Mohammed has worked at many of the nation's top national nonprofit advocacy organizations.

00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:43.459
Before joining NCRC, Asante Mohammed served as director, senior fellow,

00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:47.959
and founder of the Racial Wealth Divide Initiative for Prosperity Now.

00:57:48.379 --> 00:57:52.819
For this role, he worked as the senior director for economic programs at the

00:57:52.819 --> 00:57:58.059
NAACP, an associate fellow for the Institute for Policy Studies,

00:57:58.319 --> 00:58:05.419
was a racial wealth divide coordinator for United for a Fair Economy and served

00:58:05.419 --> 00:58:09.919
as Reverend Al Sharpton's National Action Network National Field Director.

00:58:10.659 --> 00:58:15.319
While at United for a Fair Economy, Asante Mohammed co-founded the State of

00:58:15.319 --> 00:58:20.719
the Dream Report, an annual publication honoring the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:25.859
That examines the state of racial and economic inequality in the United States.

00:58:26.199 --> 00:58:31.559
Asante Mohammed has continued to be a co-author, providing analysis in publications,

00:58:31.939 --> 00:58:38.119
including The Road to Zero Wealth and Ten Solutions to bridge the racial wealth divide.

00:58:38.359 --> 00:58:43.639
Over the years, Asante Mohammed has also become a thought leader in diversity,

00:58:43.919 --> 00:58:48.679
inclusion, and procurement as reflected in the Opportunity and Diversity series

00:58:48.679 --> 00:58:55.219
and the racial and ethnic representation and investment framework for the banking industry.

00:58:55.679 --> 00:58:59.979
Previous to his work at National Armed Profits, Asante Mohammed worked in higher

00:58:59.979 --> 00:59:04.399
education at Williams College, Oberlin College, and Morgan State University.

00:59:04.399 --> 00:59:10.239
He also helped coordinate a college program at Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women.

00:59:10.939 --> 00:59:15.439
Asante Muhammad has served and serves on various advisory committees and boards,

00:59:15.659 --> 00:59:20.999
including the Racial Equity Subcommittee of the Joe Biden Economic Policy Committee,

00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:26.919
Better Markets, the Advancing Black Strategist Initiative, and the Council of

00:59:26.919 --> 00:59:28.499
U.S. Financial Health Network.

00:59:29.104 --> 00:59:32.464
Asante Mohammed has been featured in outlets including The Hill,

00:59:32.644 --> 00:59:35.624
Market Watch, Yahoo News, Bloomberg, CNN,

00:59:36.324 --> 00:59:41.584
MSNBC, Time, The New York Times, C-SPAN, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution,

00:59:42.184 --> 00:59:46.364
The Atlantic, The Griot, Black Enterprise, and Inside Philanthropy.

00:59:46.844 --> 00:59:51.524
An avid writer and researcher, more of Asante Mohammed's work can be found in

00:59:51.524 --> 00:59:56.204
Medium, HuffPost, and the Racial Wealth Divides Initiatives blog.

00:59:56.904 --> 01:00:00.504
Asante Mohammed has a bachelor's degree in political science and government

01:00:00.504 --> 01:00:07.944
from Williams College and a master's degree in systematic theology from Union Theological Seminary.

01:00:08.244 --> 01:00:12.924
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

01:00:12.924 --> 01:00:17.244
on this podcast, Dedrick Asante Mohammed.

01:00:28.408 --> 01:00:33.488
All right. Dedrick Asante Mohammed. How you doing, sir? You doing good?

01:00:34.148 --> 01:00:39.588
Oh, yeah. I'm doing well at this end of the 100th anniversary of Black History

01:00:39.588 --> 01:00:41.968
Month or Black History Celebration. Yeah.

01:00:42.628 --> 01:00:47.548
We've been kept pretty busy over this last couple months of 2026.

01:00:48.268 --> 01:00:49.888
Yeah, well, that's all of us.

01:00:51.808 --> 01:00:56.928
You're a little more high profile than me. So they say you're catching the bullets.

01:00:57.268 --> 01:01:01.228
I might be catching some of the strays, but you're on the front line.

01:01:01.228 --> 01:01:06.908
So I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on a podcast and talk about

01:01:06.908 --> 01:01:07.948
the work that you're doing.

01:01:08.468 --> 01:01:13.688
So I start off my interviews with a couple of icebreakers.

01:01:14.108 --> 01:01:18.168
So the first icebreaker is a quote I want you to respond to.

01:01:18.168 --> 01:01:23.728
The quote is, when machines and computers, profit motives, and property rights

01:01:23.728 --> 01:01:28.688
are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism,

01:01:29.068 --> 01:01:33.828
extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.

01:01:34.168 --> 01:01:35.448
What does that quote mean to you?

01:01:36.090 --> 01:01:39.950
It means a lot. I love the quote. Pretty sure it's from Where Do We Go From

01:01:39.950 --> 01:01:43.250
Here, Chaos or Community, Dr. King, or is it from a separate speech?

01:01:43.670 --> 01:01:46.870
Well, I know it's from Dr. King. I couldn't. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:48.090 --> 01:01:53.890
At least it connects well with that book and was definitely during that time period of 67, 68.

01:01:54.230 --> 01:02:00.490
And we might've even used that quote maybe in the State of the Dream 2026 from

01:02:00.490 --> 01:02:02.350
regression to signs of black recession.

01:02:02.650 --> 01:02:06.710
And I think it does a great job of highlighting where we are today.

01:02:06.950 --> 01:02:10.090
I mean, I think that is some of the fascinating pieces of, you know, Dr.

01:02:10.210 --> 01:02:14.990
King's work and many of the greats work is how relevant it is to a current day.

01:02:15.210 --> 01:02:18.930
And, you know, as we look at current day and we're talking, constantly talking

01:02:18.930 --> 01:02:24.970
about, you know, great advancements in technology and the possibility of,

01:02:25.010 --> 01:02:27.270
you know, mass abundance and these types of things.

01:02:27.290 --> 01:02:35.770
At the same time, where also the country is engaged in mass military adventures, attacks,

01:02:36.470 --> 01:02:42.530
engagements all across the world, while at the same time, it seems like Americans

01:02:42.530 --> 01:02:46.870
are feeling, you know, Americans being some of the wealthiest people in the

01:02:46.870 --> 01:02:48.610
world, are feeling economically,

01:02:49.010 --> 01:02:53.790
greatly economically insecure in the midst of all this technological advancement

01:02:53.790 --> 01:02:58.630
and in the midst of all of these military escapades that are supposed to be

01:02:58.630 --> 01:03:00.650
for the country's protection.

01:03:00.830 --> 01:03:04.190
So I think, again, highlights that where we were in 67,

01:03:04.450 --> 01:03:11.950
68 is not that far removed, maybe in many ways continued along the same deeper

01:03:11.950 --> 01:03:16.730
and the same detrimental path that Dr. King identified about 60 years ago.

01:03:17.570 --> 01:03:22.950
Yeah. All right. So now the second icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.

01:03:23.590 --> 01:03:27.110
So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

01:03:27.791 --> 01:03:33.791
Seven. All right. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,

01:03:34.031 --> 01:03:36.951
current events, health, et cetera? Hmm.

01:03:37.811 --> 01:03:46.171
So I try to do a mix of oftentimes I do podcasts and I try to have a mix of

01:03:46.171 --> 01:03:49.951
sources, you know, some that are focused, you know, on the African-American

01:03:49.951 --> 01:03:52.191
condition, a little international,

01:03:52.611 --> 01:03:58.531
some progressive, some some more conservative, as well as I always try to get,

01:03:58.611 --> 01:04:04.031
you know, a dope make sure I get a decent dose of the mainstream institutional news.

01:04:04.031 --> 01:04:08.831
News, a New York Times, or ABC News 30-minute piece to get an understanding

01:04:08.831 --> 01:04:14.091
of what kind of the national establishment is saying and what most people are consuming.

01:04:14.331 --> 01:04:19.591
So try to get a mix of sources. I do appreciate podcasts because unlike YouTube

01:04:19.591 --> 01:04:23.871
or other social media, that social media pushes things to you.

01:04:23.951 --> 01:04:27.971
While your podcast, you can really determine what you are looking at.

01:04:27.971 --> 01:04:31.311
And so I feel podcast is an important part of my diet.

01:04:31.571 --> 01:04:37.711
I don't do as much newspaper, newsletter reading to get general information

01:04:37.711 --> 01:04:41.211
because I'm so engaged in particular research projects.

01:04:41.211 --> 01:04:45.771
That's where I've kind of focused my reading analysis. For the others,

01:04:45.851 --> 01:04:49.491
I try to do more audio to get an understanding of what's being talked about.

01:04:49.571 --> 01:04:52.811
And then if I want to dive into something, we'll focus in on the readings of the reports.

01:04:53.811 --> 01:04:59.411
Yeah. All right. So explain to the listeners what the Joint Center is and how

01:04:59.411 --> 01:05:01.811
you were drawn in to lead this organization.

01:05:02.311 --> 01:05:08.211
Sure. Well, the Joint Center was founded in 1970. It was at that time called

01:05:08.211 --> 01:05:10.271
the Joint Center for Political Studies.

01:05:10.311 --> 01:05:16.911
And it was the Joint Center because it was a joint project between Howard University

01:05:16.911 --> 01:05:20.271
and another D.C.-based organization.

01:05:20.931 --> 01:05:24.491
Nonprofit that was focusing on urban policy analysis.

01:05:25.011 --> 01:05:32.071
And there was a recognition that Black elected officials were increasing,

01:05:32.271 --> 01:05:38.091
a lot stemming from the 1965 Voting Rights Act, and that now as Blacks were

01:05:38.091 --> 01:05:40.991
being more enfranchised, particularly in the South, there was more opportunities

01:05:40.991 --> 01:05:42.851
for congressional representation,

01:05:43.051 --> 01:05:51.011
other representation, and that many of these new elected leaders were more from community activism,

01:05:51.591 --> 01:05:56.031
advocacy, and didn't know the ins and outs or the mechanisms of,

01:05:56.151 --> 01:05:58.151
particularly if you're talking about congressional, D.C.

01:05:58.431 --> 01:06:02.591
And institutional policy. And so Joint Center was, interestingly enough,

01:06:02.791 --> 01:06:09.171
founded to help create a pathway, educate, and provide institutional support

01:06:09.171 --> 01:06:12.891
to newly elected black officials coming into power.

01:06:13.471 --> 01:06:16.691
And part of what we did is we had convenings. We also, you know,

01:06:16.771 --> 01:06:20.731
we recognized Congressional Black Caucus, I believe, emerged about a year after

01:06:20.731 --> 01:06:23.371
we did, that then would help do some of that work.

01:06:23.491 --> 01:06:25.591
The National Association of Black Mayors, I believe,

01:06:25.972 --> 01:06:29.932
came out of some conversations that the Joint Center had helped.

01:06:30.072 --> 01:06:34.752
And so there started being more associations dedicated in particular to Black

01:06:34.752 --> 01:06:38.252
state legislators, mayors, congressional officials that could support them.

01:06:38.412 --> 01:06:43.872
And over time, Joint Center started moving more toward the policy analysis that

01:06:43.872 --> 01:06:45.492
one would think of as a think tank.

01:06:45.672 --> 01:06:49.432
We're called Joint Center Political Economic Studies, America's Black Think Tank.

01:06:49.652 --> 01:06:53.992
And we, as I just mentioned, We shifted our name to Joint Center for Political

01:06:53.992 --> 01:06:59.792
and Economic Studies in right around 1990, recognizing the importance of doing

01:06:59.792 --> 01:07:01.472
more economic policy analysis.

01:07:01.832 --> 01:07:05.272
So that's very brief history of the Joint Center.

01:07:05.272 --> 01:07:12.212
What has attracted me, I have done like a mixture of work engagements.

01:07:12.212 --> 01:07:16.432
I've done everything from working at a maximum security prison for women,

01:07:16.592 --> 01:07:21.072
coordinating a college program to working at multicultural centers at elite

01:07:21.072 --> 01:07:27.172
universities to working at the NAACP, working for Reverend Al Sharpton.

01:07:27.172 --> 01:07:31.132
So I've seen a lot of different and working at some other think tanks based in D.C.

01:07:31.732 --> 01:07:36.332
And advocacy organizations, seeing kind of the infrastructure of advocacy and

01:07:36.332 --> 01:07:41.652
analysis around racial inequality and saw that there was generally a whole of

01:07:41.652 --> 01:07:45.752
strong, ongoing black research policy analysis.

01:07:46.212 --> 01:07:50.332
Oftentimes you'd have civil rights groups or advocacy groups who were trying

01:07:50.332 --> 01:07:53.412
to be membership organizations, support some community work,

01:07:53.792 --> 01:07:56.892
do national advocacy, and then also try to do research.

01:07:57.172 --> 01:08:00.732
And it was just kind of too many things within an organization and recognized

01:08:00.732 --> 01:08:06.992
how important it could be or how important it continues to be to have a, you know,

01:08:07.112 --> 01:08:11.332
a black think tank that provides research and policy analysis that then advocacy

01:08:11.332 --> 01:08:14.672
groups and even community groups could utilize and build off of.

01:08:14.672 --> 01:08:18.372
And so, you know, seeing that, seeing the opportunity for to become president

01:08:18.372 --> 01:08:22.432
of Joint Center in my past experience, I was excited to apply and was lucky

01:08:22.432 --> 01:08:27.432
enough to, you know, get the position and now coming up on two years at the Joint Center.

01:08:28.007 --> 01:08:35.347
Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I know that you had worked with the National Action Network.

01:08:35.347 --> 01:08:41.807
And I think when I was in the legislature, Eddie Williams was the president

01:08:41.807 --> 01:08:43.967
or director at that time.

01:08:44.167 --> 01:08:47.567
Yeah, Eddie Williams was the longest running president of Joint Center.

01:08:47.827 --> 01:08:53.067
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've known about it for a long time, but I don't know if

01:08:53.067 --> 01:08:58.527
the community really knows, which it should. And so that's why I'm really,

01:08:58.647 --> 01:09:00.567
really honored that you came on.

01:09:01.427 --> 01:09:05.427
Since this is Black History Month, let's start with a statement made in the

01:09:05.427 --> 01:09:07.547
state of the Dream Report 2026.

01:09:08.187 --> 01:09:12.207
The erasure of Black history is not just an attack on the past.

01:09:12.367 --> 01:09:16.487
It is a threat to the integrity and potential of our shared future.

01:09:16.927 --> 01:09:18.087
Expound on that statement.

01:09:18.927 --> 01:09:25.587
Yeah, well, I first want to note that the Deletions of Black Heroes and History

01:09:25.587 --> 01:09:30.547
section of the report, State of the Dream 2026, comes from a previous report

01:09:30.547 --> 01:09:33.607
done by Onyx Impact. That's the name of the organization.

01:09:33.827 --> 01:09:37.947
And their report was called the Blackout Report. And we just shared a small section.

01:09:38.267 --> 01:09:41.267
I just thought, you know, we hadn't done analysis so much on the deletion of

01:09:41.267 --> 01:09:45.167
Black Heroes and History. We thought that was an important component to be in this paper.

01:09:46.227 --> 01:09:48.867
So you know and the and that part of

01:09:48.867 --> 01:09:51.947
the paper highlights some of the attempts to remove from historical

01:09:51.947 --> 01:09:55.507
narrative the reality of racial discrimination but

01:09:55.507 --> 01:09:58.787
i also want to highlight that in state of the dream 2026 we

01:09:58.787 --> 01:10:03.987
also focus on the ending of collecting data that provides evidence of ongoing

01:10:03.987 --> 01:10:08.447
racial inequality and you know just a night or two ago just a few nights ago

01:10:08.447 --> 01:10:12.407
the trump administration and the state of the union has been celebrating its

01:10:12.407 --> 01:10:16.067
attempt to end diversity equity and inclusion.

01:10:16.267 --> 01:10:19.447
And I thought it was interesting how specific he was in the government,

01:10:19.647 --> 01:10:21.587
military, and the private sector.

01:10:22.021 --> 01:10:25.841
Right. He, you know, stated, you know, the country would no longer be woke,

01:10:26.001 --> 01:10:31.481
which I found, you know, you know, sometimes the president speaks this kind of in bluster.

01:10:31.641 --> 01:10:35.361
You don't know what to make of it. But I think he was being focused in his words

01:10:35.361 --> 01:10:39.561
at that moment and that, you know, there was talk about and I think was overhyped.

01:10:39.721 --> 01:10:45.321
But there was some truth to this, that there was a an awakening or another awakening

01:10:45.321 --> 01:10:50.241
after George Floyd of the reality of racial inequality in the United States.

01:10:50.241 --> 01:10:53.421
And I think the Trump administration, through its, you know,

01:10:53.661 --> 01:10:58.641
through its attacks on talking about anything black historically or doing contemporary

01:10:58.641 --> 01:11:04.261
analysis about how black people are doing today or any type of programs that

01:11:04.261 --> 01:11:05.821
would assist bridging inequality,

01:11:05.821 --> 01:11:10.281
that the Trump administration is happy to make the country go back to sleep

01:11:10.281 --> 01:11:15.841
and ignore the reality of racial inequality, unless we're talking about racial

01:11:15.841 --> 01:11:17.661
inequality as it relates to white people.

01:11:17.661 --> 01:11:21.541
That seems to be one space where he he doesn't mind talking about racial inequality.

01:11:21.801 --> 01:11:28.041
So I think, you know, this the quote you put forward of the racial black history

01:11:28.041 --> 01:11:29.681
is not just attack on the present.

01:11:29.881 --> 01:11:32.081
It's a threat to the integrity potential of our shared future.

01:11:32.081 --> 01:11:33.241
I think we're seeing that full

01:11:33.241 --> 01:11:37.921
stop in what is happening in policy and in political conversation today.

01:11:38.861 --> 01:11:42.821
Yeah, yeah. And you're right. He did. He did highlight that.

01:11:43.101 --> 01:11:49.141
And, you know, and the disturbing thing was the people in his own party were

01:11:49.141 --> 01:11:55.101
clapping on that moment. And, you know, it's just kind of like they ask questions.

01:11:55.341 --> 01:11:59.481
Now, the Joint Center is nonpartisan. Let me say that for the audience. Sure.

01:12:00.161 --> 01:12:03.121
But I'm partisan as hell.

01:12:03.361 --> 01:12:08.981
And so, you know, you know, for me, when people ask me why black people keep

01:12:08.981 --> 01:12:10.801
voting Democratic, I said.

01:12:11.579 --> 01:12:16.679
Is, you know, exhibit A, right? So, you know, and just, and we just keep going,

01:12:16.679 --> 01:12:19.259
but let me not digress into that. Oh, yeah.

01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:22.579
And let me just add one more thing too, because I think it's important for people

01:12:22.579 --> 01:12:26.039
to understand that, you know, whether you call it diversity,

01:12:26.299 --> 01:12:30.639
equity, and inclusion in the past affirmative action programs,

01:12:30.839 --> 01:12:33.939
in the past anti-discrimination programs,

01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:39.139
the way this country has worked is oftentimes federal government for as slow

01:12:39.139 --> 01:12:44.459
and painful as progress might have been in lessening discrimination against black people,

01:12:44.839 --> 01:12:48.839
federal government would be a lead in terms of employment, particularly for

01:12:48.839 --> 01:12:54.019
professional workers and in the military of some type of desegregation, right?

01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:58.199
It was, again, slow and painful within government, but they're usually ahead of the private sector.

01:12:58.379 --> 01:13:02.179
And so I do think, you know, Trump celebrating the attack, you know,

01:13:02.299 --> 01:13:07.759
that we're ending DEI, which I think it means inroads for black people into

01:13:07.759 --> 01:13:12.459
military, into the government and the private sector shows that, you know.

01:13:12.879 --> 01:13:18.639
Someone, either a speechwriter or himself is aware that in order to push back

01:13:18.639 --> 01:13:23.199
on some of the progress that has been made, it needs to be led by the government

01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:25.199
and then trickled down into the private sector.

01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:27.799
And this is something he seems to be celebrating.

01:13:27.959 --> 01:13:30.739
You know, I would say to have a bipartisan critique on this,

01:13:30.899 --> 01:13:36.219
what I will note is that, and I think which makes the attack on DEI,

01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:40.699
you know, so ridiculous in so many ways, is that oftentimes it was not even

01:13:40.699 --> 01:13:42.719
as it wasn't even that successful,

01:13:43.039 --> 01:13:47.919
meaning that, you know, there was still so much inequality in particularly things

01:13:47.919 --> 01:13:49.259
like government contracts,

01:13:49.579 --> 01:13:53.839
procurement, these types of things that, you know, it's not like blacks were

01:13:53.839 --> 01:13:57.999
being overly represented in government procurement contracts,

01:13:58.119 --> 01:13:58.959
right? We were still getting.

01:13:59.633 --> 01:14:03.713
I'm blanking on the number. It might have been something like 2% of government

01:14:03.713 --> 01:14:06.313
contracts that were 13%, 14% of the population.

01:14:06.453 --> 01:14:11.213
And even that was too much for this administration to stand by and watch and

01:14:11.213 --> 01:14:14.353
are trying to end programs that helped move us to 2%.

01:14:14.353 --> 01:14:18.733
So I think it's something to be of great concern and something to watch to see

01:14:18.733 --> 01:14:23.113
how this affects African-American economy over the next few years. Yeah.

01:14:23.713 --> 01:14:30.453
All right. In 2015, the Joint Center supported the Coretta Scott King Mid-Decade

01:14:30.453 --> 01:14:32.653
Redistricting Prohibition Act.

01:14:32.753 --> 01:14:37.473
In light of the flurry of mid-decade redistricting efforts that has been initiated

01:14:37.473 --> 01:14:41.793
since 2025, has the organization changed its position?

01:14:41.793 --> 01:14:46.293
The organization has not, you know, I mean, I've only again been president for

01:14:46.293 --> 01:14:50.433
the last two years, but I don't think we've really come back to that important

01:14:50.433 --> 01:14:55.873
piece of proposed legislation that has kind of been proposed every two years or something.

01:14:55.973 --> 01:14:59.653
The credit Scott King mid-decade redistricting prohibition acts.

01:14:59.773 --> 01:15:03.873
I do think and again, like, you know, the official answer is we need to do a

01:15:03.873 --> 01:15:07.793
further analysis on this and see what our contemporary policy will be.

01:15:07.793 --> 01:15:12.813
But I will just note overall, I think there are good reasons to limit redistricting

01:15:12.813 --> 01:15:18.273
to every 10 years with census data so it doesn't become such a political football.

01:15:18.553 --> 01:15:23.393
But we'll note that that piece of legislation hasn't been enacted.

01:15:23.433 --> 01:15:30.973
And so I also can't hold parties or individuals responsible for following a

01:15:30.973 --> 01:15:35.213
proposed piece of legislation. You know, the rules of the game now are that you can.

01:15:35.393 --> 01:15:39.613
And I see, you know, both parties are trying to take advantage of that for themselves.

01:15:40.073 --> 01:15:43.553
So, you know, understand that as well. But overall, I will say,

01:15:43.653 --> 01:15:45.373
you know, I think that can make sense.

01:15:45.513 --> 01:15:48.353
But I think it's something, you know, we have to look at and see if this is

01:15:48.353 --> 01:15:52.333
something we want to continue support or if we think there's some reason to

01:15:52.333 --> 01:15:55.913
change that overall, that historic stance we've had.

01:15:56.464 --> 01:16:00.364
Yeah. I just I just think it's fascinating to get somebody, like I said,

01:16:00.424 --> 01:16:06.444
has been in the legislative process that Sheila Jackson Lee had the foresight to initiate it,

01:16:06.644 --> 01:16:11.464
foresight to initiate that 10 years before we ended up seeing what would happen

01:16:11.464 --> 01:16:13.124
if you didn't have it. No, no.

01:16:13.224 --> 01:16:16.504
And I think that's really important to, you know, raise up her name.

01:16:17.004 --> 01:16:19.984
And, you know, that's something I'm glad you're bringing up,

01:16:20.084 --> 01:16:24.324
something Joint Center should also note is not just the legislation,

01:16:24.524 --> 01:16:28.404
do analysis legislation that has been passed, but the legislation that is proposed

01:16:28.404 --> 01:16:31.064
and has yet to be enacted, how important that was.

01:16:31.064 --> 01:16:36.784
Again, it was, you know, proposals by former Congressman Conyers for years,

01:16:36.944 --> 01:16:40.884
for decades before you had an MLK holiday and these types of things.

01:16:41.044 --> 01:16:45.804
And so oftentimes, particularly, we have a hard time rallying the country around,

01:16:45.804 --> 01:16:49.084
you know, pro-Black progressive legislation.

01:16:49.544 --> 01:16:53.444
It's oftentimes even more important to look at what's not being passed to help

01:16:53.444 --> 01:16:57.104
understand, you know, where we are and where we need to go. Yeah.

01:16:57.784 --> 01:17:01.644
Well, speaking about things that have passed, how has the one big,

01:17:01.744 --> 01:17:06.044
beautiful bill of 2025 impacted black communities?

01:17:06.808 --> 01:17:12.688
Yeah, well, and let me first note that, you know, I think the impact for such

01:17:12.688 --> 01:17:16.948
a huge bill, I think the impact is going to be felt more over time, right?

01:17:17.128 --> 01:17:20.268
Again, you know, many of the things don't come into full effect until,

01:17:20.348 --> 01:17:23.468
you know, over a few years, these types of things. But, you know,

01:17:23.548 --> 01:17:28.408
we did start a tax and wealth program last year recognizing how important tax

01:17:28.408 --> 01:17:29.828
policy conversation debate.

01:17:29.988 --> 01:17:33.408
And now we see the bill is going to be in the future of black America.

01:17:33.668 --> 01:17:37.008
And again, I think, you know, taxes do go with wealth, right?

01:17:37.108 --> 01:17:42.668
Because taxes are the mechanism that the country uses to develop its own national

01:17:42.668 --> 01:17:48.048
wealth and also does much in figuring out how we're going to subsidize,

01:17:48.208 --> 01:17:52.168
assist and support the wealth of individual Americans and corporations.

01:17:52.348 --> 01:17:58.668
And, you know, a concern we've had is that it does seem to be following a regressive

01:17:58.668 --> 01:18:01.748
turn that the country has been taking, honestly,

01:18:01.908 --> 01:18:07.808
for 40 or something years of cutting taxes for the wealthiest of Americans and corporations,

01:18:08.248 --> 01:18:12.968
leaving bigger holes in government support and investments for middle class

01:18:12.968 --> 01:18:16.088
and lower class Americans, lower income Americans.

01:18:16.088 --> 01:18:19.648
So, you know, I think that, you know, there's so much it was,

01:18:19.808 --> 01:18:24.648
and you can argue about the beauty, but it was one big bill and there were many things.

01:18:26.055 --> 01:18:30.515
There are many things in it that, you know, so it's hard to kind of break out everything.

01:18:30.775 --> 01:18:34.235
But I think overall, particularly the tax component, you know,

01:18:34.375 --> 01:18:40.155
there's been cheering by some on the right side that they want to shrink government

01:18:40.155 --> 01:18:43.175
to the size that they can drown in a bathroom basement.

01:18:43.175 --> 01:18:49.275
And seeing the kind of cutting of income, which is really what cutting taxes

01:18:49.275 --> 01:18:52.295
is, particularly for the wealthiest of Americans and corporations,

01:18:52.295 --> 01:18:56.295
as well as a massive cut in government positions.

01:18:56.335 --> 01:19:00.895
I'm concerned that is part of that program.

01:19:01.835 --> 01:19:09.115
Yeah. So you brought up taxes. What is the benefit of publishing tax data by race and ethnicity?

01:19:09.115 --> 01:19:17.455
Well, the benefit is you can have an understanding of the racial implications of taxes.

01:19:17.795 --> 01:19:25.115
You can understand what people do is say, since there's no data, it's race neutral.

01:19:25.155 --> 01:19:27.315
But no data doesn't mean it's race neutral.

01:19:27.475 --> 01:19:30.955
It just means you're ignorant of how it is affecting different communities.

01:19:30.955 --> 01:19:35.735
And so I think it is important to get a better understanding of when we are

01:19:35.735 --> 01:19:40.415
cutting taxes for the wealthiest 1% of Americans or even...

01:19:41.125 --> 01:19:44.565
1% of African-Americans getting that? You know, more likely than not,

01:19:44.685 --> 01:19:49.785
no, probably, you know, 0.2% or something like that of African-Americans are,

01:19:49.945 --> 01:19:50.865
you know, are getting that.

01:19:50.925 --> 01:19:54.925
Or when you're having some type of tax cut for business, how does that affect,

01:19:55.045 --> 01:19:57.745
you know, African-American owned businesses, these types of things.

01:19:57.885 --> 01:20:00.665
So there are ways that you can, you know,

01:20:00.745 --> 01:20:04.045
make some estimates even without outright published tax data,

01:20:04.045 --> 01:20:08.565
but why not just make it simple and just get clear demographic breakdown so

01:20:08.565 --> 01:20:13.205
we can understand how tax policy is affecting all America. Yeah.

01:20:13.825 --> 01:20:20.745
Are the Trump accounts legit? And if they are, how can they be beneficial to Black families?

01:20:20.945 --> 01:20:23.905
I guess they put Nicki Minaj out there to be the face of it.

01:20:23.985 --> 01:20:28.145
I assume that's what's going on. So yeah, kind of talk about the Trump account.

01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:32.620
Yeah, the Trump accounts, I mean, you know, I will start off,

01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:36.500
I will try to have a somewhat positive framing and then get into the critique.

01:20:37.040 --> 01:20:39.360
But, you know, actually, I'm going to get a little bit into the thing that's

01:20:39.360 --> 01:20:44.660
an interesting history that there was a recognition that income poverty was

01:20:44.660 --> 01:20:47.280
a huge problem for Americans, right?

01:20:47.360 --> 01:20:53.020
I think in the 30s or so, the majority of elderly people were in income poverty, right?

01:20:53.100 --> 01:20:56.920
And this kind of helped push this idea of Social Security, right? Right.

01:20:57.000 --> 01:21:00.700
So you have some type of income supplementation for older people.

01:21:00.760 --> 01:21:03.940
And that really helped rise senior people out of poverty.

01:21:04.100 --> 01:21:09.460
There was, I think, by 1960, about 51 percent of black Americans were living in poverty.

01:21:09.680 --> 01:21:15.180
Right. A massive poverty rate. And this is a part of the kind of war on poverty

01:21:15.180 --> 01:21:20.300
that would come out in the 60s, maybe kind of drip into the 70s.

01:21:20.300 --> 01:21:26.520
And recognition of having social welfare programs that previously had excluded Blacks.

01:21:26.600 --> 01:21:30.540
And so even the social welfare programs that did exist weren't going into Black

01:21:30.540 --> 01:21:33.940
communities, but then saying, well, okay, now they are going to Black communities.

01:21:33.940 --> 01:21:37.580
And it was then right after that, that people started attacking social welfare

01:21:37.580 --> 01:21:41.100
as, you know, a know-nothing, as something that government shouldn't be spending

01:21:41.100 --> 01:21:43.900
its money on as soon as it started reaching our communities.

01:21:43.900 --> 01:21:49.760
So, you know, there is, you know, that history of...

01:21:50.460 --> 01:21:55.120
Of, of assets and wealth. And then there was a recognition that, okay, that's great.

01:21:55.220 --> 01:21:59.040
We've done some things to help deal with income poverty, but we haven't dealt

01:21:59.040 --> 01:22:00.920
with asset or wealth poverty.

01:22:01.080 --> 01:22:04.340
There were writings in the eighties and nineties, I think a book called the

01:22:04.340 --> 01:22:09.260
asset poor that noticed that you can give some supplementation to people with

01:22:09.260 --> 01:22:12.160
some type of income. So they can have enough money to eat.

01:22:12.340 --> 01:22:16.700
They might have some money for rent, but they won't really have economic security

01:22:16.700 --> 01:22:20.660
until you give them some type of assets and wealth that they can build their

01:22:20.660 --> 01:22:22.540
life on and take advantage of opportunities.

01:22:22.800 --> 01:22:26.100
And there are ideas of things like individual development accounts.

01:22:26.600 --> 01:22:30.360
Derek Hamilton, Sandy Darity did this thing called baby bonds.

01:22:30.500 --> 01:22:35.320
This idea that Americans should not just get Social Security at the end of life,

01:22:35.440 --> 01:22:37.620
but have some type of asset or wealth

01:22:37.975 --> 01:22:42.455
when they begin their life that then is building up over time so that when they're

01:22:42.455 --> 01:22:46.635
a young adult, they actually have some money that they could use to help start

01:22:46.635 --> 01:22:50.755
a business, own a home, put further into investments or retirement,

01:22:50.995 --> 01:22:52.795
right? So there's this long history of that.

01:22:53.195 --> 01:22:56.975
Trump grabs this idea. He likes to name things after himself.

01:22:56.975 --> 01:22:58.395
So he calls them the Trump accounts.

01:22:58.595 --> 01:23:02.755
And he is saying for a few years, and actually I'm forgetting the exact numbers.

01:23:02.795 --> 01:23:09.955
I don't know if it's $1,000, $2,000, that children born will get this amount of money right away.

01:23:10.115 --> 01:23:13.915
And then, well, sorry, I would say right away. I mean, we'll be into an account,

01:23:14.095 --> 01:23:17.095
right? You know, you can't get access to it until the kids are adults.

01:23:17.175 --> 01:23:23.575
And then that families and maybe businesses can add additional money to this

01:23:23.575 --> 01:23:27.235
account that then could build up into some type of funding.

01:23:27.415 --> 01:23:32.235
And it was It's part of actually, again, I'll really put Sandy Darity and Derek

01:23:32.235 --> 01:23:35.915
Hamilton, two black economists who have been really pushing this measure.

01:23:36.095 --> 01:23:39.355
And we've seen progress in different states across the country.

01:23:39.495 --> 01:23:44.635
Connecticut, Washington, D.C. were doing some aspect, some idea of baby bonds.

01:23:44.815 --> 01:23:50.755
The concern about with Trump is that the Trump accounts is that these are much

01:23:50.755 --> 01:23:53.755
smaller levels of, you know, of account.

01:23:53.755 --> 01:23:58.055
It only lasts for a few years, and it's something that probably most likely

01:23:58.055 --> 01:24:02.155
higher-income people will get to take the most advantage of because they will

01:24:02.155 --> 01:24:08.195
have the extra money to add into these accounts and really build up. Baby bonds.

01:24:08.861 --> 01:24:12.341
We're designed to really help those in asset poverty, those with low wealth.

01:24:13.041 --> 01:24:16.761
So oftentimes it was a higher amount of money that would initially go in.

01:24:16.941 --> 01:24:21.241
It might, you know, those of high income might get a little less in their baby

01:24:21.241 --> 01:24:25.881
bonds and would, you know, be something that helps advance wealth mobility instead

01:24:25.881 --> 01:24:28.901
of might as in the Trump temporary.

01:24:29.081 --> 01:24:31.401
Because again, it only lasts a few years. We'll have to see how it goes.

01:24:31.881 --> 01:24:37.141
We'll have to see if it continues. That'll probably reinforce concentrated wealth that we have today.

01:24:37.141 --> 01:24:42.081
But my hope, you know, my most optimistic projection is that we can say,

01:24:42.261 --> 01:24:47.281
OK, well, this investment in children through baby bonds or through some type

01:24:47.281 --> 01:24:49.781
of investment is now a bipartisan thing.

01:24:49.781 --> 01:24:53.681
And how can we make these Trump accounts something that's more long term and

01:24:53.681 --> 01:24:57.521
something that helps address the asset poverty so many Americans are in instead

01:24:57.521 --> 01:25:02.301
of giving wealthy Americans a new way to save for their children who are already doing quite well?

01:25:02.841 --> 01:25:07.221
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm going to keep hope alive, as Reverend Jackson would say

01:25:07.221 --> 01:25:08.921
on that one. Yeah. And see how that goes.

01:25:09.641 --> 01:25:12.721
All right. Do you support the Road to Housing Act?

01:25:13.362 --> 01:25:18.222
And is there anything in that legislation which limits big investors like BlackRock

01:25:18.222 --> 01:25:20.862
and Main Street from buying residential housing?

01:25:21.362 --> 01:25:25.662
Yeah, from my understanding, there isn't anything in the Road Housing Act that

01:25:25.662 --> 01:25:29.442
prevents big investors like, you know, like private equity, BlackRock,

01:25:29.522 --> 01:25:31.902
what have you, from buying residential housing.

01:25:32.102 --> 01:25:36.082
I believe Trump has said something about doing an executive order outside of

01:25:36.082 --> 01:25:38.222
the Road to Housing Act that could do that.

01:25:38.342 --> 01:25:41.962
But those are, to my knowledge, two separate things. I will say,

01:25:42.102 --> 01:25:45.702
you know, again, I need to do more research and analysis on the Road to Housing Act.

01:25:45.882 --> 01:25:51.182
But I am skeptical that it is dealing with the magnitude of the problem that

01:25:51.182 --> 01:25:53.942
African-Americans face as relates to homeownership, right?

01:25:54.062 --> 01:25:55.382
African-Americans have around

01:25:55.382 --> 01:26:02.042
43% homeownership and white Americans have around 73% homeownership.

01:26:02.042 --> 01:26:05.482
And I've used to work with the National Community Reinvestment Coalition and

01:26:05.482 --> 01:26:09.062
their researcher, Jason Richardson, put out something that noted that,

01:26:09.122 --> 01:26:13.942
you know, kind of black, white inequality and homeownership has maintained for the last hundred years.

01:26:14.202 --> 01:26:18.762
Right. And we did another piece at NCRC noting that we'd have to double the

01:26:18.762 --> 01:26:24.142
amounts of new black homeowners every year for 20 years just to get African-Americans

01:26:24.142 --> 01:26:26.062
to a 60 percent homeownership rate,

01:26:26.282 --> 01:26:29.242
not even to the 73 percent that whites have.

01:26:29.242 --> 01:26:33.422
And so my concern about the bill, it does some mechanisms that they think will

01:26:33.422 --> 01:26:37.702
make building housing a little bit more cheaper or help the housing industry build homes.

01:26:37.882 --> 01:26:43.822
But, you know, my past analysis has been it's going to require a much more targeted

01:26:43.822 --> 01:26:50.902
and focused program to address the challenges of making African-Americans majority homeowners.

01:26:50.902 --> 01:26:56.022
That's so important because for most, let's say, low to mid-wealth Americans.

01:26:56.582 --> 01:26:58.782
Home ownership is your primary source of wealth.

01:26:58.942 --> 01:27:00.342
You know, I know for me, you know,

01:27:00.462 --> 01:27:03.902
that made my balance sheet look a lot better when I paid off my home.

01:27:04.122 --> 01:27:08.262
Didn't have that. And now I had, you know, an asset of several hundred thousand

01:27:08.262 --> 01:27:11.902
dollars on my positive ledger versus when I was paying it.

01:27:12.442 --> 01:27:15.542
It was a mortgage. It was a debt on my negative ledger.

01:27:16.118 --> 01:27:22.858
Yeah. Yeah. From what I was able to glean from the bill, it didn't it looks

01:27:22.858 --> 01:27:28.358
more like it's going to take away a lot of the regulations and maybe streamline,

01:27:28.698 --> 01:27:34.798
you know, the process or encourage streamlining the process to get houses built.

01:27:35.806 --> 01:27:40.106
And where they can build them, but it doesn't address, I think,

01:27:40.326 --> 01:27:44.886
you know, and I don't know who got to the speechwriter or to President Trump

01:27:44.886 --> 01:27:50.026
to say what he said at the State of the Union, but it is something that needs to be addressed.

01:27:50.026 --> 01:27:55.406
I just had a personal experience when I was going through some physical therapy

01:27:55.406 --> 01:28:02.666
that the nurse that was dealing with me was trying to get a house, and she kept,

01:28:03.446 --> 01:28:05.546
you know, every time she thought she was about to close on it,

01:28:05.686 --> 01:28:10.586
all of a sudden she got outbid or whatever the case was and she didn't understand that.

01:28:10.726 --> 01:28:15.106
And then, you know, and me just being nosy, that's what was happening.

01:28:15.266 --> 01:28:19.246
It was like groups like Main Street were coming in and buying these residential

01:28:19.246 --> 01:28:23.226
homes here in Georgia and turning them into rental properties.

01:28:23.406 --> 01:28:28.106
And it's, you know, so that, you know, it doesn't, it might help there.

01:28:28.926 --> 01:28:33.286
Bottom line or whatever, but it doesn't help the situation that we're in.

01:28:33.486 --> 01:28:38.086
So again, I can go into a whole sermon about that, but I'm not going to go. Yeah.

01:28:38.406 --> 01:28:42.826
I think it's important to note that that is, you know, that issue is separate

01:28:42.826 --> 01:28:44.246
from the Road to Housing Act.

01:28:44.446 --> 01:28:49.186
Right. And that is something that, you know, individual, individual buyers,

01:28:49.446 --> 01:28:52.606
particularly trying to buy a first home or buy an affordable home should not

01:28:52.606 --> 01:28:58.666
be competing with, you know, multi-billion dollar private equity organizations.

01:28:59.306 --> 01:29:05.566
It's making an expensive housing market that much more out of reach for most

01:29:05.566 --> 01:29:07.286
Americans and particularly most Black Americans.

01:29:08.066 --> 01:29:12.726
Right. All right. Monica Mitchell said in the conclusion of the State of the

01:29:12.726 --> 01:29:20.186
Dream 2026 report, regression is not destiny, but neither is progress automatic.

01:29:20.566 --> 01:29:25.826
Based on that statement, what is the charge for the Black community in 2026.

01:29:26.849 --> 01:29:32.469
Yeah, I mean, the charge for the Black community in 2026 isn't that different

01:29:32.469 --> 01:29:37.629
from the charge we've had throughout our journey, our centuries-old journey

01:29:37.629 --> 01:29:40.329
here in the United States, is how,

01:29:40.549 --> 01:29:43.169
you know, can we make a better future for our children,

01:29:43.749 --> 01:29:49.769
you know, endure the deep racial inequality that still exists in our country

01:29:49.769 --> 01:29:55.089
while at the same time trying to have, you know, a positive life, right?

01:29:55.089 --> 01:29:58.889
And so, you know, and I think one of the key things is, you know,

01:29:58.989 --> 01:30:01.369
the idea that progress doesn't just come.

01:30:01.589 --> 01:30:04.049
You know, there are some people who just think that every year things just get

01:30:04.049 --> 01:30:08.849
better, right? And no, sometimes things do get better. Sometimes things get worse.

01:30:09.049 --> 01:30:13.389
We did a report with Algernon Austin from the Center for Economic Policy Research

01:30:13.389 --> 01:30:18.429
a couple years ago highlighting the best black economy in generations and why it isn't enough, right?

01:30:18.429 --> 01:30:22.529
Where Black wealth had gone up to a record level of around $50,000,

01:30:23.149 --> 01:30:25.629
or actually $45,000, and I think

01:30:25.629 --> 01:30:30.189
medium Black household income was around $53,000, $55,000 at that time.

01:30:31.098 --> 01:30:35.118
So, yes, that is good. We're no longer 50 percent in poverty.

01:30:35.378 --> 01:30:40.618
But even with the progress we've made since the 60s to that time period,

01:30:40.818 --> 01:30:45.638
it was going to take us another 500 years just to get to income equality with whites.

01:30:45.798 --> 01:30:50.758
And it would take another 800 years to get to wealth equality with whites.

01:30:50.918 --> 01:30:54.638
So to me, you know, that level of slow progress is no progress.

01:30:54.638 --> 01:30:57.678
And so we really have to look for, and I think that's an important thing.

01:30:58.218 --> 01:31:02.078
You know, Trump has administered a lot of changes once, you know,

01:31:02.178 --> 01:31:03.418
maybe even the next Congress.

01:31:03.878 --> 01:31:07.598
There's going to be a push to have some changes to deal with his changes.

01:31:07.598 --> 01:31:11.458
I think the important thing that African-Americans particularly focus around

01:31:11.458 --> 01:31:15.378
policy analysis, our call can't be to go back to the way it was,

01:31:15.518 --> 01:31:19.918
but to go back, but to go forward and do things even better.

01:31:19.958 --> 01:31:24.658
Because even, you know, under, you know, whatever, President Obama or if you're

01:31:24.658 --> 01:31:28.178
a fan of President Biden or whoever you're a fan of, blacks were not on the

01:31:28.178 --> 01:31:30.778
path to economic equity,

01:31:31.278 --> 01:31:36.278
economic equality and even economic stability or getting out of asset poverty.

01:31:36.278 --> 01:31:39.818
And so whatever future changes we need to have, we need to make sure that at

01:31:39.818 --> 01:31:43.758
least we're standing up for ourselves, advocating for things that could push

01:31:43.758 --> 01:31:45.458
us and the country in that direction.

01:31:46.788 --> 01:31:53.348
So my last question is, finish this sentence. I have hope because.

01:31:54.168 --> 01:31:57.348
I have hope because I have faith.

01:31:58.168 --> 01:32:01.488
And I think, you know, I used to work for Reverend Sharpton and he would kind

01:32:01.488 --> 01:32:05.788
of go back and forth around discussing the difference between hope and faith,

01:32:05.908 --> 01:32:08.408
you know, with his mentor, Jesse Jackson, saying keep hope alive,

01:32:08.628 --> 01:32:12.928
which is essential and important, particularly for those who are going through,

01:32:13.068 --> 01:32:15.868
you know, so much at different times to have some type of hope.

01:32:15.868 --> 01:32:20.068
But I think after a while, you realize it's not just flickers of hope here and

01:32:20.068 --> 01:32:22.208
there about what could possibly change,

01:32:22.348 --> 01:32:27.808
but having an overall faith that, you know, your ongoing work and your ongoing

01:32:27.808 --> 01:32:31.348
work really can help lead to a better life for yourself and for your community.

01:32:31.548 --> 01:32:36.008
And I think, you know, so many of us have faith, whether it's religious traditions

01:32:36.008 --> 01:32:40.708
or even secular ideologies. We've kind of had to develop faith to kind of keep

01:32:40.708 --> 01:32:43.208
going. I think, you know, I think that'd be interesting reflection.

01:32:43.368 --> 01:32:46.808
People should do more in the 250th anniversary of the country.

01:32:47.008 --> 01:32:53.528
What type of faith and hopes were needed throughout a 250 year history of ongoing,

01:32:53.528 --> 01:33:00.048
you know, white supremacy as it relates to political, socio-economic power.

01:33:00.948 --> 01:33:07.348
Yeah. All right. So if people want to get more information about the Joint Center

01:33:07.348 --> 01:33:10.168
or reach out to you, how can they do that?

01:33:10.868 --> 01:33:14.908
Sure. You can go to our, you can Google Joint Center for Political Economic Studies.

01:33:15.128 --> 01:33:20.448
You can go to jointcenter.org. We have a Facebook page. We have an X account.

01:33:20.628 --> 01:33:22.968
We're in LinkedIn. We have Instagram.

01:33:23.448 --> 01:33:26.228
We have several, we have newsletters that come out every week.

01:33:26.388 --> 01:33:29.168
Some focused on economics generally.

01:33:29.508 --> 01:33:32.808
Some focus on technology. Some focus on government diversity.

01:33:33.068 --> 01:33:36.828
So you could join our newsletter as well, newsletters as well,

01:33:36.908 --> 01:33:38.288
as well as sign up to our social media.

01:33:39.020 --> 01:33:44.780
Well, Dedrick Asante Muhammad, I greatly appreciate you taking on the mantle

01:33:44.780 --> 01:33:51.300
of this important institution in the Black community that's been around now almost 60 years.

01:33:51.940 --> 01:33:56.480
And, you know, and I just appreciate the work that you and the Joint Center are doing.

01:33:56.820 --> 01:34:01.140
And I'm really, really humbled and honored that you came on the podcast. Thank you so much.

01:34:01.580 --> 01:34:05.640
No, no, I appreciate the podcast. I appreciate, you know, your,

01:34:05.660 --> 01:34:09.820
you know, history and your ability to kind of, you know, bring up the important

01:34:09.820 --> 01:34:13.320
questions that should be discussed, yeah, around these issues. So thank you.

01:34:13.860 --> 01:34:15.980
All right, guys, we're going to catch out on the other side.

01:34:27.767 --> 01:34:33.267
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Gregory S.

01:34:33.407 --> 01:34:41.167
Cooke and Dedrick Asante Mohammed for coming on the program. Brother Cooke.

01:34:42.504 --> 01:34:46.844
You know, please watch Invisible Warriors.

01:34:47.764 --> 01:34:53.964
As you heard in the interview, this was almost two decades worth of work that

01:34:53.964 --> 01:34:55.304
Brother Cooke put into it.

01:34:55.544 --> 01:35:01.084
And, you know, the dedication and the commitment shines through.

01:35:01.344 --> 01:35:06.044
And even though it's a very, very short documentary, it's very, very informative.

01:35:07.544 --> 01:35:14.204
And I think it will encourage you to do some more research. Most importantly,

01:35:14.624 --> 01:35:19.204
talk to the folks that you're close to. Talk to your family.

01:35:19.764 --> 01:35:23.004
Listen to the stories that they tell.

01:35:23.324 --> 01:35:31.184
You know, one of the things that I regret, somebody that is now approaching

01:35:31.184 --> 01:35:32.844
the golden years of their life,

01:35:33.724 --> 01:35:40.424
is that I didn't really record a lot of the stories that I heard and a lot of

01:35:40.424 --> 01:35:46.484
the experiences that my elders were talking about.

01:35:46.864 --> 01:35:49.164
And I didn't really probe them enough.

01:35:50.064 --> 01:35:54.304
You know, I was very fortunate that they shared some things voluntarily,

01:35:55.184 --> 01:35:57.384
but I wish I had documented them.

01:35:57.384 --> 01:36:06.064
Not necessarily to do a book or a movie or anything, but just to keep them.

01:36:06.224 --> 01:36:13.604
So hopefully some years down the road, people will look at this podcast in that way.

01:36:14.104 --> 01:36:19.564
And that's why I called it the podcast of our time, because I wanted to chronicle the people,

01:36:20.404 --> 01:36:26.624
especially black folks but just people in general that are navigating this time

01:36:26.624 --> 01:36:33.284
that we are in and we started this during President Trump's first administration.

01:36:34.244 --> 01:36:38.984
And it's really really critical now to see how people have been.

01:36:40.091 --> 01:36:46.611
Trying to do the right thing and trying to build a better America in spite of him, right?

01:36:46.931 --> 01:36:53.791
And so I hope that this will be a tool down the road that people can get some

01:36:53.791 --> 01:36:58.331
inspiration, some ideas, and some encouragement from, right?

01:36:59.391 --> 01:37:06.671
And then to Brother Dedrick Asante Muhammad, I really, really was honored to have him.

01:37:07.999 --> 01:37:12.839
Come on and to have somebody that's a leader of an organization.

01:37:13.319 --> 01:37:19.679
Been very fortunate to have some leaders of organizations out here on the podcast.

01:37:20.099 --> 01:37:24.379
And, you know, the Joint Center is one of those things. You know,

01:37:24.479 --> 01:37:27.219
me being a political junkie, I knew a lot about it.

01:37:27.859 --> 01:37:34.279
But a lot of people in the community don't know that there's been this group that's been dedicated,

01:37:34.979 --> 01:37:38.719
to help elected officials and others

01:37:38.719 --> 01:37:47.099
in the community fight for things and articulate things for our benefit.

01:37:47.639 --> 01:37:52.159
So I want to thank him for stepping up in that role.

01:37:52.359 --> 01:37:59.379
I thank the Joint Center for the work that they're doing, and hopefully things go right.

01:38:01.219 --> 01:38:04.119
There'll be some things coming down the road. We'll see.

01:38:04.279 --> 01:38:09.559
You know, there's no promises on that, but this won't be the last time Brother

01:38:09.559 --> 01:38:12.579
Asante Muhammad will be on the podcast. I promise you that.

01:38:15.919 --> 01:38:24.759
So I want to say something that those people who really, really know me know this is true.

01:38:25.279 --> 01:38:31.159
There's only one thing I like more than politics, and that's sports.

01:38:31.979 --> 01:38:35.579
Now, I never was much of an athlete.

01:38:36.719 --> 01:38:38.659
I mean, I held my own in baseball.

01:38:40.039 --> 01:38:44.979
I did okay with football and, you know, basketball.

01:38:44.999 --> 01:38:48.559
It's like if my black card was depending on my basketball skills,

01:38:48.599 --> 01:38:49.859
I probably would have lost that.

01:38:50.679 --> 01:38:57.419
But I enjoy sports. I enjoy athletics. I ran track, you know,

01:38:57.539 --> 01:39:04.779
and, you know, I just admire, and now my big thing is golf, right?

01:39:05.299 --> 01:39:09.839
Sounds like something somebody old would say, but it's just amazing to me to

01:39:09.839 --> 01:39:11.739
watch the people that do it for a living.

01:39:13.589 --> 01:39:19.029
How easy they make it look, and how incredible they do things.

01:39:19.429 --> 01:39:27.009
To watch somebody like a Patrick Mahomes or a Caleb Williams or a Josh Allen

01:39:27.009 --> 01:39:32.889
throw a football the way to watch a Usain Bolt, Sha'Carri Richardson run a sprint,

01:39:33.389 --> 01:39:37.809
to watch Serena Williams or Tiger Woods do their thing.

01:39:37.809 --> 01:39:42.449
You know it's and of course Michael Jordan,

01:39:43.429 --> 01:39:51.029
Peyton you know all those greats you know in baseball just the guys like Aaron

01:39:51.029 --> 01:39:54.489
Judge and Shohei that can just hit the ball the country mile or,

01:39:55.169 --> 01:39:59.749
Nolan Ryan that can throw it 100 miles an hour with control or Greg Maddox who

01:39:59.749 --> 01:40:04.289
doesn't have to throw it 100 yards and still strike people out you know,

01:40:05.429 --> 01:40:11.309
guys like Tony Gwynn that I always managed to put the bat on the ball, right?

01:40:12.389 --> 01:40:18.269
And then to watch the soccer players and the hockey players, right?

01:40:18.349 --> 01:40:27.549
Because in hockey, you have to be able to skate, skate pretty fast, be in control,

01:40:28.229 --> 01:40:34.169
and then use the stick as an extension of your hand and your arm to guide a

01:40:34.169 --> 01:40:37.969
puck where you wanted to go, whether it's to a teammate or to shoot a goal.

01:40:39.749 --> 01:40:47.269
And the only main thing is you can't cross the line of your opponent before the puck gets there.

01:40:48.401 --> 01:40:54.961
And, you know, it's just, so you can't have a breakaway cherry pick like you

01:40:54.961 --> 01:40:56.061
do in basketball, right?

01:40:57.121 --> 01:40:59.921
It's an amazing sport to watch.

01:41:01.381 --> 01:41:09.561
And, you know, I watched the women's team for the United States just totally dominate the planet.

01:41:10.141 --> 01:41:17.001
I think they allowed one goal in the whole tournament. I think they shut everybody

01:41:17.001 --> 01:41:19.881
out but Canada in the last game.

01:41:21.061 --> 01:41:27.601
And then to see the American team, the men's American team, do something that

01:41:27.601 --> 01:41:31.881
hadn't been done since 1980 and win a gold medal.

01:41:33.841 --> 01:41:41.301
It was fun to watch. And you could see their determination.

01:41:41.301 --> 01:41:46.101
You could see their teamwork. You could see how on both squads,

01:41:46.341 --> 01:41:51.681
how confident they were, confident, I should say, in what they were doing.

01:41:54.021 --> 01:42:01.641
And, you know, just as somebody, you know, as an American, you feel proud about that, right?

01:42:02.261 --> 01:42:09.721
And so let me just say up front, I am very, very pleased and happy that they

01:42:09.721 --> 01:42:11.001
were able to accomplish that.

01:42:11.001 --> 01:42:16.361
And just all of the Olympic athletes, figure skaters and the bobsledders and

01:42:16.361 --> 01:42:20.881
the skiers and the biathlon, biathletes.

01:42:21.001 --> 01:42:27.481
And, you know, it's just amazing to watch human beings do those kind of things,

01:42:27.481 --> 01:42:30.781
to be able to ski and then shoot something on target.

01:42:31.936 --> 01:42:38.556
Wow. Or to turn the slopes into a place where you can be creative.

01:42:39.436 --> 01:42:45.796
You know, I can barely handle a skateboard, let alone a snowboard.

01:42:46.216 --> 01:42:49.296
And I've tried to ski. You know, I've tried it.

01:42:50.136 --> 01:42:53.956
No way I would be doing that professionally. Right.

01:42:53.976 --> 01:43:00.696
So I commend all of our athletes for, you know, the effort that they put into

01:43:00.696 --> 01:43:05.796
it. And even if they didn't win, you know, they made the team.

01:43:06.156 --> 01:43:09.896
They got to experience the competition. They got to go.

01:43:11.036 --> 01:43:18.636
And, you know, and they did us proud. And that should never be taken away from them.

01:43:21.096 --> 01:43:27.796
However, there's always an intersection between sports and politics.

01:43:27.796 --> 01:43:31.016
It's unfortunate, but...

01:43:32.503 --> 01:43:37.023
It's almost like war, and that was the one thing the documentary,

01:43:37.243 --> 01:43:38.883
Invisible Warriors, reminded me of.

01:43:39.523 --> 01:43:44.123
You know, in America, we go through a lot of stuff individually.

01:43:44.863 --> 01:43:51.703
We have individual challenges, and then if you're black, you have societal challenges.

01:43:52.443 --> 01:43:58.163
And I'm not saying that no other group has it, but I do want you,

01:43:58.403 --> 01:44:04.183
if you haven't figured out before, My perspective comes from the fact that I'm a black man.

01:44:06.063 --> 01:44:13.323
So I can't talk about the Latino experience. I can't talk about the Asian American experience.

01:44:13.883 --> 01:44:15.963
I can talk about what it's like to be black.

01:44:16.543 --> 01:44:20.363
And if you've listened to the podcast before, you know I've always talked about

01:44:20.363 --> 01:44:25.003
the dichotomy of being a black person in America.

01:44:25.783 --> 01:44:32.483
Whereas there's no other country I would rather have grown up in than the United

01:44:32.483 --> 01:44:39.623
States of America there's no place else on the planet that has as much constitutional freedom,

01:44:39.983 --> 01:44:41.763
spiritual freedom,

01:44:42.363 --> 01:44:50.803
creative freedom in the world there's some countries that might do two out of three but not all of it,

01:44:51.763 --> 01:44:59.783
and you know and As people, they live their lives, they live it in the country

01:44:59.783 --> 01:45:02.403
they live in, and they enjoy that.

01:45:02.543 --> 01:45:06.923
But there's something totally unique about being an American.

01:45:07.783 --> 01:45:13.803
And I was watching something where somebody was trying to say that their spouse

01:45:13.803 --> 01:45:19.683
was more American, even though he's from another country, than most Americans and stuff.

01:45:19.683 --> 01:45:24.443
And it's like, there's no way you can be more American than a citizen in the

01:45:24.443 --> 01:45:27.983
United States or somebody that was born here. Let me put it that way.

01:45:28.823 --> 01:45:30.403
You can adapt to it.

01:45:31.820 --> 01:45:36.040
But there's something about being unique, and I would argue,

01:45:36.040 --> 01:45:45.480
based on our history, and we, you know, as far as ending the celebration of Black History Month,

01:45:46.460 --> 01:45:53.220
then being a black person in the United States, the journey that we as a people

01:45:53.220 --> 01:45:59.740
have gone through to get where we are now and still seek better, right? Right?

01:46:00.300 --> 01:46:03.500
There's nothing more American than that.

01:46:04.820 --> 01:46:08.640
There's an old saying in the United States, you talk about pull yourself up

01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:10.900
by your own bootstraps. Right?

01:46:11.440 --> 01:46:14.900
Well, we as a people didn't even have boots.

01:46:15.620 --> 01:46:17.820
Then we learned how to make the boots.

01:46:18.840 --> 01:46:21.720
Then people denied us access to boots.

01:46:22.220 --> 01:46:27.120
And then when we got the access back, all of these people that pulled themselves

01:46:27.120 --> 01:46:34.520
up, whether it was with assistance or on their own, the success stories are incredible.

01:46:35.889 --> 01:46:42.249
And people can argue it if they want to, and that's fine, that's their prerogative,

01:46:42.409 --> 01:46:45.529
but our story is really, really unique.

01:46:48.489 --> 01:46:52.969
So if you want to get into a debate about who is more American,

01:46:52.969 --> 01:46:59.949
who represents the ideals of the nation more than anybody else,

01:47:00.229 --> 01:47:05.429
then every time you look at a black person, you should salute them.

01:47:06.289 --> 01:47:09.249
If you want to go there. I'm just saying.

01:47:09.929 --> 01:47:13.489
But that's not the gist of what I wanted to talk about. I wanted to talk about

01:47:13.489 --> 01:47:20.229
the juxtaposition between sports and politics because there was a moment when

01:47:20.229 --> 01:47:28.449
here was a team who was celebrating something that hadn't been done again since 1980. A U.S.

01:47:29.069 --> 01:47:32.889
Hockey team, male hockey team, won the gold medal.

01:47:33.589 --> 01:47:37.269
And, you know, we've been close. since then, right?

01:47:37.969 --> 01:47:41.909
I'm an old Blackhawks fan, so I remember Patrick Kane doing his best.

01:47:42.169 --> 01:47:45.789
I think he got two silver medals out the deal, right?

01:47:46.489 --> 01:47:50.169
But not getting that, not being on the top of that platform,

01:47:50.389 --> 01:47:51.709
not being a gold medal winner.

01:47:52.249 --> 01:47:54.589
First time we've done it since 1980.

01:47:55.329 --> 01:48:03.009
And almost as instantly as they had pulled that off, a person who was given

01:48:03.009 --> 01:48:08.189
the responsibility to lead the nation they represent messed it up for all of them.

01:48:09.269 --> 01:48:18.769
And to me, again, if you had to just have microcosm examples of why I do not like this president,

01:48:19.129 --> 01:48:25.049
this one is very, very salient and on point.

01:48:26.428 --> 01:48:31.468
And instead of just saying, congratulations, guys, what a heck of an achievement.

01:48:32.228 --> 01:48:36.708
Look forward to seeing you when you come back home. It just left it at that.

01:48:37.408 --> 01:48:40.768
Didn't even have to make the formal invite for the State of the Union or anything.

01:48:41.028 --> 01:48:47.348
Just congrats. And then they would have embraced that and enjoyed that for the

01:48:47.348 --> 01:48:48.748
rest of their lives. That's all you had to say.

01:48:48.988 --> 01:48:52.088
That's all the previous presidents have said for teams that have won a Super

01:48:52.088 --> 01:48:56.208
Bowl or a World Series or even a human being that walked on the moon.

01:48:56.868 --> 01:48:59.928
Right? And for those of y'all who are out there on the internet,

01:49:00.168 --> 01:49:03.028
yes, I'm one of those people that actually believe we did that.

01:49:05.708 --> 01:49:09.928
The majority of my generation thinks that actually happened.

01:49:11.728 --> 01:49:17.228
Black, white, whoever, whatever. For those young cats that want to create all

01:49:17.228 --> 01:49:21.688
this stuff, because you've got all this technology for special effects and all that, that's nice.

01:49:21.788 --> 01:49:26.728
It's great. Like, this is America. You can live in that fantasy if you want to.

01:49:26.908 --> 01:49:29.628
But the reality is, we did that.

01:49:30.628 --> 01:49:35.388
And so when the president called the astronauts when they did that, it's a big moment.

01:49:38.888 --> 01:49:44.808
So, you know, but only this president could mess that moment up.

01:49:46.215 --> 01:49:54.355
Because he made it about him. And because he makes it about him and he puts

01:49:54.355 --> 01:49:58.135
people in an awkward position to try to respect him and humor him,

01:49:58.375 --> 01:50:00.135
he gets all of us in trouble.

01:50:00.635 --> 01:50:03.435
Right? In one way, shape, or the other.

01:50:05.015 --> 01:50:11.095
The athletes before they even competed were kind of looked at a certain way.

01:50:11.095 --> 01:50:14.755
When the vice president showed up at the opening ceremonies,

01:50:14.795 --> 01:50:23.355
he got booed by the planet because of this particular person, our president, right?

01:50:24.115 --> 01:50:30.675
Supreme Court said, Mr. President, what you did with those tariffs is wrong. Can't do that.

01:50:32.153 --> 01:50:36.893
He say, like Franklin Roosevelt, all right, find another way to do it,

01:50:36.913 --> 01:50:39.273
or we just scrap it all together.

01:50:40.013 --> 01:50:43.113
You know, Roosevelt even went as far as saying, well, maybe I'll expand the court.

01:50:43.813 --> 01:50:48.553
But he went to Congress to see if he'd get that passed. He didn't just say, I'm going to do it.

01:50:49.393 --> 01:50:52.313
But not only did this president say, I'm going to do what I want to do,

01:50:52.553 --> 01:50:57.693
but then he trashed the very people that, you know, three of them,

01:50:58.113 --> 01:51:01.613
two of the three he appointed, and he trashed them.

01:51:02.153 --> 01:51:06.513
Because they didn't do what he wanted to do, right?

01:51:07.113 --> 01:51:12.013
And he takes his phone call to these folks, and he calls them,

01:51:12.233 --> 01:51:18.333
and he says, well, I guess I got to invite the women. Because he didn't call the women when they won.

01:51:18.853 --> 01:51:21.793
I guess Kash Patel couldn't get in the ladies' locker room.

01:51:23.593 --> 01:51:29.013
But he didn't invite them to come to the State Union. And then he said,

01:51:29.093 --> 01:51:33.833
well, I guess I'll have to invite him or else I'll be impeached, right?

01:51:35.273 --> 01:51:37.473
And maybe if he hadn't been impeached

01:51:37.473 --> 01:51:42.413
before, maybe people might not have taken it a certain way, maybe.

01:51:42.953 --> 01:51:47.913
But the reality is, he doesn't have any empathy.

01:51:48.653 --> 01:51:55.853
He's not in the moment because it's always about him. the lady who was over

01:51:55.853 --> 01:52:02.933
player development who basically helped pick the team on the women's side had at least one son,

01:52:04.372 --> 01:52:09.612
on the men's side, just put her in the most awkward position of all time.

01:52:09.792 --> 01:52:13.492
Well, they stuck a microphone in her face. How do you feel about that?

01:52:14.252 --> 01:52:18.132
When you don't care about other people, this is the result.

01:52:19.612 --> 01:52:25.092
And so now, you know, and then you had the skier, which I think I mentioned

01:52:25.092 --> 01:52:27.792
last podcast, who won a gold medal.

01:52:28.572 --> 01:52:32.252
Well, how do you feel? He said, well, I'm kind of feeling some kind of way because

01:52:32.252 --> 01:52:37.272
I'm proud to represent my nation, but I'm not happy about what's going on in my country right now.

01:52:37.772 --> 01:52:40.932
And you proceeded to call him, Mr. President, a loser.

01:52:41.672 --> 01:52:45.352
But see, it's not about you. It's about us.

01:52:46.012 --> 01:52:50.032
It's not I-A, it's U-S-A, right?

01:52:50.852 --> 01:52:58.652
So, you know, I have always admired those people who have used their platforms

01:52:58.652 --> 01:53:05.772
to take a risk and speak up for something they believe in, even if I don't agree with it.

01:53:06.432 --> 01:53:08.972
It is what it is, you know.

01:53:10.072 --> 01:53:14.492
Now, that puts you in a position where if we have debates, we're not on the

01:53:14.492 --> 01:53:17.292
same side, then that's where it'll go.

01:53:17.752 --> 01:53:20.952
If we're on the same side, they're to defend you.

01:53:22.412 --> 01:53:29.792
But it doesn't diminish the fact that I feel as though that you know that you're

01:53:29.792 --> 01:53:32.292
taking a risk by taking a position.

01:53:34.386 --> 01:53:38.926
So I commend people to do that, especially to black athletes.

01:53:40.726 --> 01:53:47.086
You know, it took this one particular commentator who I don't really know how her mind works.

01:53:47.626 --> 01:53:55.846
But I know that she's been through some bullshit in her career to be where she is now.

01:53:56.346 --> 01:54:03.806
And she told an athlete who took a stand to shut up and dribble. Right.

01:54:04.846 --> 01:54:11.086
I think now we're in a moment where the athletes need to come back and say, shut up and lead.

01:54:12.046 --> 01:54:15.786
Shut up and lead. I think that's where we are.

01:54:16.546 --> 01:54:23.206
I think citizens, regardless of their athletic ability, have a right to feel

01:54:23.206 --> 01:54:26.146
the way they need to feel about this nation.

01:54:26.846 --> 01:54:31.226
Whether they are representing a particular team, a particular city,

01:54:31.466 --> 01:54:36.466
or a nation. they have that right. They earn that right.

01:54:37.526 --> 01:54:44.626
And so, well, let's go even further. They were endowed with that right.

01:54:46.242 --> 01:54:51.622
So, you know, for somebody to tell them, well, just stop doing it.

01:54:52.142 --> 01:54:59.722
Stop exercising your right because of what you do for a living or for your enjoyment.

01:55:00.382 --> 01:55:08.662
That's crazy. You know, I just think that we've got more important issues to

01:55:08.662 --> 01:55:15.402
deal with in this nation than worried about how somebody feels.

01:55:16.242 --> 01:55:21.582
And if they're expressing an opinion, they're expressing an opinion based off

01:55:21.582 --> 01:55:26.542
of the experiences they've had and what they want to see their country achieve,

01:55:27.142 --> 01:55:30.362
the country that they represent, right?

01:55:30.922 --> 01:55:34.982
And it goes back to the people that fought in wars.

01:55:35.762 --> 01:55:40.582
You got black folks out here fighting for a country, fighting against fascism,

01:55:41.562 --> 01:55:48.302
fighting against empires. and then they come back home and experience that in the city they live in.

01:55:48.662 --> 01:55:55.642
Just imagine you win a gold medal and you go to a restaurant in your hometown,

01:55:56.422 --> 01:56:00.162
and they say, well, we don't serve Negroes here.

01:56:01.482 --> 01:56:08.942
Or imagine you show up to vote in your military uniform and you get beat up

01:56:08.942 --> 01:56:12.442
or even worse, you get lynched, right?

01:56:13.522 --> 01:56:22.302
How is that supposed to make you feel? Why wouldn't you have some kind of dichotomy

01:56:22.302 --> 01:56:26.122
in your mind about this nation?

01:56:27.042 --> 01:56:34.822
So when people say what they need to say, maybe we should listen because we

01:56:34.822 --> 01:56:40.302
don't want anybody representing the United States, whether it's on a battlefield or on an Olympic field.

01:56:42.507 --> 01:56:47.567
Some kind of way about the nation they're representing. Because they've been

01:56:47.567 --> 01:56:52.467
trained and because they believe in something, they do what they're supposed

01:56:52.467 --> 01:56:55.127
to do. But that feeling is there.

01:56:55.827 --> 01:57:01.467
And if we really had true American leadership, we would do something about that feeling.

01:57:01.767 --> 01:57:04.427
We would respond to that feeling.

01:57:04.767 --> 01:57:09.427
We would do everything possible to make those people feel better and prouder

01:57:09.427 --> 01:57:11.407
of who they are and who they represent.

01:57:13.087 --> 01:57:20.127
Trying to figure out ways to muzzle them or embarrass them or make them feel less than a citizen.

01:57:20.647 --> 01:57:25.627
We wouldn't keep putting them in awkward situations, right?

01:57:26.147 --> 01:57:32.987
But that's why I've been calling for and praying for true leadership.

01:57:33.607 --> 01:57:38.887
If we can get to that point, and I don't know if we'll do it in my lifetime.

01:57:39.107 --> 01:57:42.967
But if we can get to that point, then the work that I'm doing,

01:57:43.147 --> 01:57:48.567
the work that all these people I've been interviewing have been doing will not be in vain.

01:57:49.247 --> 01:57:52.807
Even the people that don't accept the invites to be on the podcast.

01:57:53.567 --> 01:58:00.447
Just know that if I've reached out to you, that means that I think you're doing something amazing.

01:58:01.507 --> 01:58:07.607
And whatever venue you continue to use, because obviously I noticed you,

01:58:07.747 --> 01:58:09.867
so there was some venue you were using.

01:58:10.507 --> 01:58:12.567
Just keep doing what you're doing.

01:58:13.227 --> 01:58:17.267
Keep putting that shoulder to the grindstone, right?

01:58:17.927 --> 01:58:22.727
Just keep helping people. Just keep helping this nation become better.

01:58:23.227 --> 01:58:30.267
Keep becoming, keep being examples of American leadership because we're not

01:58:30.267 --> 01:58:37.147
getting it from the person that was elected to be our national leader, but it's out there.

01:58:39.747 --> 01:58:43.867
So, you know, that's what I wanted to get off my chest, man.

01:58:43.947 --> 01:58:50.007
I just, I think it's a shame that these guys did all that work and achieved

01:58:50.007 --> 01:58:51.287
what they wanted to achieve.

01:58:52.227 --> 01:58:58.847
And one insensitive person, really two, messed that up, scarred at.

01:58:58.907 --> 01:59:03.047
There's people now saying, oh, well, you know, they're misogynistic and this

01:59:03.047 --> 01:59:05.547
is what men do and da, da, da, da. It's like, look.

01:59:07.065 --> 01:59:11.945
Win the Nobel Prize for philosophy if there is such a thing.

01:59:12.065 --> 01:59:15.525
They didn't cure cancer. They won a hockey game.

01:59:16.105 --> 01:59:18.125
They won a gold medal for their sport.

01:59:19.365 --> 01:59:24.585
Celebrate that achievement and don't, whatever they are individually or whatever,

01:59:25.025 --> 01:59:26.485
they got to deal with that.

01:59:27.065 --> 01:59:31.165
But as far as the team and the accomplishment that should be celebrated,

01:59:31.485 --> 01:59:38.585
we shouldn't let somebody mess that up for them and that person should have

01:59:38.585 --> 01:59:41.325
been more of a leader not to mess it up for.

01:59:42.085 --> 01:59:46.565
So when people ask me, why do you not support this guy?

01:59:47.365 --> 01:59:52.005
I just gave you another reason. And again, like I said last time,

01:59:52.605 --> 01:59:57.145
if you want to defend that guy, want to defend that mindset,

01:59:57.565 --> 01:59:58.905
then I'm here to fight you.

01:59:59.305 --> 02:00:04.365
And I'm trying to recruit as many people as I can to do it, to join me in that fight.

02:00:05.425 --> 02:00:14.145
Because for the remainder of my days, I would like to see America start living up to its creed.

02:00:14.605 --> 02:00:23.785
I'd like to see a place that no matter if you're wearing a USA Olympic uniform

02:00:23.785 --> 02:00:29.685
or United States military uniform or a police uniform or a firefighter's uniform

02:00:29.685 --> 02:00:33.845
or doctors or nurses, scrubs, whatever you do.

02:00:34.525 --> 02:00:38.705
And want you to be proud of who you are, proud of the country that you're in,

02:00:39.625 --> 02:00:43.185
and continue each and every day to make it better.

02:00:44.585 --> 02:00:48.105
That's all I got. Thank you all for listening. Till next time.