Triumphant Men Featuring Mark Talley and Mike Nellis

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

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Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

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and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NVG Podcast Network.

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Music.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Hello, and welcome to another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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So today, I have two young men on the show, and I'm going to use the term triumphant.

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Because despite personal issues,

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And political or professional challenges, they have emerged as recognized,

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respected leaders in their communities.

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And, you know, I'm just really, really blessed how things work out that these

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two gentlemen would be on this episode at the same time.

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And so that's my inspiration in having this episode so that young men,

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regardless of who you are and where you come from.

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That there are role models out there.

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And there are people that you can look up to.

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There are people that you can be mentored by, either directly or indirectly.

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And so I'm hoping that the

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young men that listen to this podcast will get some inspiration from these gentlemen

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and look them up and get involved in what they do and just really understand

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that no matter what you're going through,

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you can push forward. Right.

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So, yeah, I'm just I'm really proud of this episode.

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And of course, we're going to talk about some politics because both of these

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young men speak from the heart.

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And so I hope you all enjoy the discussions.

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But before we get into that, as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Music.

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Thanks, Erik. Seven senior Justice Department officials, including Manhattan's

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top federal prosecutor, resigned in protest of an order to drop corruption charges

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against New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

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Kash Patel was narrowly confirmed by the U.S. Senate as the nation's ninth FBI director.

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A federal judge declined to block Elon Musk's government efficiency department

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from firing federal workers or accessing databases, but questioned Musk's unchecked authority.

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President Donald Trump and advisor Elon Musk have terminated over 9,500 federal

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employees since the purging began.

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A U.S. appeals court upheld a nationwide block on the Trump administration's

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policy aimed at restricting birthright citizenship.

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The death toll from flooding in Kentucky increased to 11 after recent storms

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dumped more than 8 inches of rain in certain parts of the state.

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A U.S. judge rejected a bid to block Elon Musk's government efficiency team

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from accessing Education Department's student aid data. A U.S.

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Appeals court ruled Biden's student debt relief plan that expanded loan forgiveness

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and reduced payments exceeded his legal authority.

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A federal judge paused the termination of 11 CIA officers tied to diversity programs for five days.

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African leaders elected Djibouti's foreign minister Mahmoud Ali Yusuf to chair

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the African Union Commission.

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Ugandan opposition leader Kiza Bessije was briefly hospitalized after a hunger

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strike prompting public outcry and calls for his release.

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UN officials appealed for $6 billion in aid for Sudan to address severe hunger

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and displacement caused by civil war.

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Andrew Lester, an 86-year-old Missouri man who pled guilty to second-degree

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assault for the 2023 shooting of black teen Ralph Yarl, died before his sentencing hearing.

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And rapper A$AP Rocky was acquitted of assault charges after a jury found insufficient

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evidence he used a real firearm.

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I am Grace G, and this has been a Moment of News.

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Music.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. Now it is time for my guest, Mark Talley.

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Mark Talley is an accomplished individual who has made significant contributions to society.

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After experiencing a personal tragedy with the loss of his mother and a racist

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domestic terrorist attack, he channeled his grief into positive action.

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He founded a highly successful socioeconomic non-profit,

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Agents for Advocacy, aimed at addressing the systemic inequalities faced by

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marginalized communities, and authored the book 514, The Day the Devil Came to Buffalo.

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Through his non-profit, he has implemented various initiatives to uplift and

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empower individuals, fostering positive change on a large scale.

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In addition to their impactful work, they also authored a book that sheds light

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on their personal journey and serves as a source of inspiration to others.

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Through his resilience, determination, and commitment to social justice,

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Mark Talley continues to make a lasting impact in the fight against injustice and inequality.

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And I just want to add that, you know, Mark is really, he's really a good, good brother.

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His heart is in the right place. And anytime he wants to come on the podcast,

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I am always excited about that because I have taken a personal investment.

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In making sure that he's okay, right?

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So if you did not get that, Mark's mom, Geraldine Talley, died in the top shooting

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in Buffalo on 5-14-2022. too.

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So he reached out to me not too long after that.

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And we got him, I got him on the podcast and we've developed somewhat of a relationship.

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I mean, he's, I'm not his best friend, but I'm somebody that he can talk to

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and, and, and he's given some trust to.

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So I'm honored to that and I want to see him succeed.

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So without any further ado, ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor and privilege

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to have as a guest on this podcast, Mark.

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Music.

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All right. Mark Talley, what's going on, brother? How you doing?

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Pretty good, sir. Good to be in this cold, Buffalonian weather up here.

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Yeah, I don't envy that at all from you, brother.

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I was thinking about the other day, I said, you know, them black folks in Buffalo

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are some strong folks, man.

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Y'all dealing with that cold, man. I just, what's the temperature today?

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It says 15 degrees but it's about to go down

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to 7 by 7 p.m oh my god and

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it's like in the time i think it was like in the got to

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the upper 20s today in atlanta and folks are losing their mind they just they're

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just losing it so i just want y'all to understand them brothers and sisters

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in buffalo are some special brothers to get that hot i mean that cold oh man

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you know we had the snow and the ice and all that stuff about a couple of weeks ago,

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I was out there rescuing employees, man,

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trying to get them to work, get them home. Yeah.

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Yeah. They don't do, they don't do the cold weather here too well,

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but you know, and you know, Chicago is cold, but Buffalo y'all, y'all at another level.

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So I greatly appreciate that.

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So look, we'll kick it off the way I normally to kick it off.

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I've got a quote for you I want you to express your thoughts on.

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It says, together we can challenge hatred, eradicate bigotry,

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and build a future where every person's worth is recognized and celebrated.

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What does that quote mean to you?

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It sounds like basically a new age version of meritocracy.

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It's like we keep saying all of this, but

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we have yet to put it together whether

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as a human race or as people yeah i

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mean we can look we can look

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at the whole drake drake and kendrick

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lamar beef like you have different shades of black people fighting over no which

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one of these artists is right we have them fighting over who means more to black

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culture who is culture who's really black and it's like why are we both fighting And for this nonsense,

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what is true stuff we can be fighting for?

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And I'm a big believer. All of this was just literally for publicity.

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Like, they're both signed to UMG. They're both about to make,

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you know, tons, tons, and tons of money for it.

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I mean, obviously, with, you know, Kendrick Wilmire performing at the Super

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Bowl, obviously, he's about to get a lot of more streaming money.

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Drake having, I think, arguably his biggest tour yet over in Australia.

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And we have black folks literally discussing online, raging and screaming at

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other black people what it means to be black.

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So since you brought that up, and I'll get to my other thing in a moment.

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But since you brought that up, I don't know if you're familiar with the guy

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who ran with Jill Stein for president. He was running as their vice president. His name is Butch Ware.

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He's a professor at one of those Michigan schools.

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And he got on this show and he was basically saying that he didn't understand

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what Kendrick was trying to do or he didn't feel that he was being revolutionary

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and all that stuff but my thing was I think the symbolism was pretty clear you

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know you had black dancers,

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dressed up like the American flag to symbolize the black bodies that have been

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sacrificed and the black bodies that have worked to make this country,

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to even make that flag exist.

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But he said he didn't get that. Did you, I get your point about the capitalism

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side of it, but did you understand what Kendrick was trying to,

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the message he was trying to convey?

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And do you think he did a good job with it? I understand that.

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I mean, I'm really not going to say it's revolutionary, but you got to know

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your audience, know where you're at. the majority of people at that Super Bowl

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don't look like you and I.

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I mean, they could really care less about the message. I believe more what Colin

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Kaepernick was revolutionary.

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He risked his whole career and never recovered yet from it by kneeling down.

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Kendrick Lamar getting on there, performing, had the symbolism with the A chain,

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the lowercase a, had the black bodies.

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I mean, you know, yeah, it's nice, but it's, you know, it's the Super Bowl halftime show.

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Really, nobody's trying to see the symbolism there.

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People are probably ready on their second or third pack of Coors Light by that time.

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I mean, it's New Orleans. People wanted to see Lil Wayne. People wanted to see Juvenile.

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People wanted to see, you know, even, what's her name, Big Frida.

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You know, they had Master P come out just walking.

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You know, hey, he could have got on the stage to perform. I think Kendrick Lamar

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would have been perfect for last year, which they did have him.

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For this year with the symbolism, I mean, at the biggest event,

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you know, in the U.S., a Super Bowl halftime show on television,

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and you dissed another black person.

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I mean, I thought it definitely would have been a lot more symbolism if he would

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have called out Donald Trump there. That would have been revolutionary right there.

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Yeah, I feel you, because that was kind of the direction that Dr.

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Ware was going, what you were saying.

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I just look at it like, here's a black man who's been given this opportunity to perform.

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He's been very, I wouldn't say, he wasn't, he's not as militant as,

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you know, when I was growing up with Public Enemy and all that,

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and the X-Clan, those kind of folks.

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But for his generation, he's been that kind of a voice.

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And, you know, he was he I felt he was authentic. I don't think he watered the show down.

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I think he did what he he intended to do.

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And and Donald Trump was sitting there in the audience. Now,

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you know, the fact that Donald Trump didn't say anything about it's kind of

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interesting, but he upset the right wing media enough.

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And that's always a good thing for me. you know, cause they,

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they put them out there like that, you know, but yeah, I thought that that's interesting.

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I'm glad, I'm glad you brought that up. Cause it was kind of bothering me the way that Dr.

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Ware put it, but you kind of almost, you almost said the same exact thing.

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He said that the issue was, it wasn't revolutionary.

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And, you know, I'm thinking,

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yeah, you probably not gonna cause a revolution

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if you're getting paid what so many million dollars

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well no i don't even think they get paid to do the

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super bowl thing i think that's the nuance they gotta pay to

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do the super bowl but they definitely get a they re-up

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after with all the streaming sales of current and past albums yeah yeah so i

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mean it's it's a i mean you got the law i mean he had 133 million people see

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him so if you're an artist you really can't pass that up you know despite whatever

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awards and accolades you've gotten.

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You've got a captive audience of 133 million people. And he conveyed the message

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the best way he could. I'm not mad at him.

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You know, the whole thing with Drake, I mean, that's the hit song.

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I'm sorry that it trashes Drake.

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But then Drake ain't necessarily, I'm not going to lay down my sword for that

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black man because he ain't to lay down the sword for us. You know what I'm saying?

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Drake will not be in that picture that you got in the background.

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By the way, he's got the classic picture of Malcolm X looking out the window.

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Yeah, Drake ain't going to be in that picture. So I'm just saying,

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you know, unless he's trying to sell an album cover, right?

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So I, he, you know, I don't have anything personal against him,

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but you know, I don't know, since you in Buffalo, you know, Drake's from Canada,

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maybe I'll kind of like him a little bit. I don't know.

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I've always, I just like playing as devil advocate. I really,

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I like both, but then you got to get people saying, oh yeah, Drake, he's loss.

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He lost on wax. He ain't got it. It's like, he's still the number one most streaming artist in 2024.

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And I forgot who said this. I think I saw it online or some other rapper said it.

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It's like LeBron can go to five straight more finals and lose and still be LeBron James.

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He'll still be number one face of the league.

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Jay-Z lost to Nas. He still came back stronger, better than ever.

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You get at a certain I mean, Michael Jordan's son just got done sniffing cocaine.

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People still, Michael Jordan is still on top.

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That's true. Once you get a certain, I mean, you know, even looking at Donald

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Trump, I mean, grabbing the women by, you know what, all the stuff he's done

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and said that we can literally verify that.

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I mean, people don't care once you get past a certain level, and that's Drake.

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And plus, you know, both Kendrick Moore openly has done stuff for Black culture, Black community.

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Drake Moore behind the scenes has given money to Black Lives Matters,

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to other organizations.

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But I just think, why are we as a people?

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Why are we as a culture? who cares about

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Drake and Kendrick like they this whole

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this whole thing has made them tons

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tons of money I think it would have

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been revolutionary if he right there would have called out Donald Trump that

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would have been that would have been our version of you know how Kanye was before

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he lost his mind national TV just literally called out George Bush right there

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yeah that would have been a moment that That definitely would have been a moment.

00:19:46.973 --> 00:19:54.633
All right. So let's get back on somewhat of a track. I want you to give me a number between 1 and 20.

00:19:56.053 --> 00:19:59.393
Let's go with 11. All right. Number 11.

00:19:59.953 --> 00:20:01.573
All right. So this is your next

00:20:01.573 --> 00:20:07.933
question. Where do you go to check a fact that you see, hear, or read?

00:20:08.873 --> 00:20:11.873
All right. First place I go is Wikipedia.

00:20:12.473 --> 00:20:17.293
Because people say don't use Wikipedia. It's not. It is cited. People just lazy.

00:20:17.473 --> 00:20:20.513
You scroll all the way down at the end. You see the citations.

00:20:20.793 --> 00:20:24.653
So see if what you're looking at Wikipedia, if you see that it's cited,

00:20:24.833 --> 00:20:26.213
you can go to that article.

00:20:26.413 --> 00:20:31.553
Hopefully it's a .edu, a .org, at worse, a .com.

00:20:31.693 --> 00:20:35.493
If I see it's going to a blog or a magazine article, that's when I kind of forget

00:20:35.493 --> 00:20:37.853
it. Then I'll try to double check that.

00:20:38.393 --> 00:20:41.213
No, I'll put in what I looked up or what

00:20:41.213 --> 00:20:45.193
i heard see if it's true see where it leads me and now

00:20:45.193 --> 00:20:47.993
my third the third thing i'm doing which is

00:20:47.993 --> 00:20:50.833
quickly becoming number one with how fast it's growing is

00:20:50.833 --> 00:20:54.973
you know searching some of these ai engines yeah yeah

00:20:54.973 --> 00:20:57.973
especially this new thing this deep seek that everybody keeps

00:20:57.973 --> 00:21:00.773
talking about the only thing kind

00:21:00.773 --> 00:21:04.573
of unique about deep seek is that excuse

00:21:04.573 --> 00:21:07.233
me is that it it acts like it's trying to

00:21:07.233 --> 00:21:10.113
have a conversation with you it's like you tell to

00:21:10.113 --> 00:21:13.073
do something and then it it's like it's thinking out loud

00:21:13.073 --> 00:21:20.533
as opposed to the other ones that just process but yeah and then that the ai

00:21:20.533 --> 00:21:26.973
is only as intelligent as the information has been given excuse me so yeah but

00:21:26.973 --> 00:21:32.233
i agree with you yeah but i agree with you on the wikipedia because they'll tell you,

00:21:32.773 --> 00:21:36.233
You know, they'll put a disclaimer in there It's like we might need some more

00:21:36.233 --> 00:21:39.293
citations on this But this is the information we have.

00:21:40.913 --> 00:21:42.593
And it's a non-profit,

00:21:43.414 --> 00:21:46.994
A lot of people don't understand that a Wikipedia is not connected to Google

00:21:46.994 --> 00:21:51.274
or any of these other big tech companies. It's it's a nonprofit.

00:21:51.694 --> 00:21:56.554
And, you know, they're doing the research, excuse me, and they're relying on

00:21:56.554 --> 00:22:00.954
they're relying on people like you and me, you know, that read it.

00:22:01.214 --> 00:22:05.554
If if not only to donate, but if you have some information to add to the article,

00:22:05.714 --> 00:22:06.994
they'd greatly appreciate it.

00:22:07.534 --> 00:22:10.754
So yeah i i'm with you i like wikipedia

00:22:10.754 --> 00:22:13.694
i like you know i use i try

00:22:13.694 --> 00:22:17.234
to find news services like reuters or the

00:22:17.234 --> 00:22:22.394
bbc because they actually will do stories about places we're not going to see

00:22:22.394 --> 00:22:26.374
on the news every day like like what's going on in africa because that was the

00:22:26.374 --> 00:22:31.194
other thing you know that's not getting a lot of attention about the halftime

00:22:31.194 --> 00:22:34.874
show that you had a brother out there i think he I know he had a Sudanese flag.

00:22:35.034 --> 00:22:39.814
I couldn't remember if he had a. Oh, yeah. He ran out protesting for the like

00:22:39.814 --> 00:22:42.334
in support of Israel, I think, or against.

00:22:42.654 --> 00:22:46.914
Well, I'm trying to remember. I know he had a Sudanese flag because he wanted

00:22:46.914 --> 00:22:50.214
to highlight the fact that they about the Civil War over there.

00:22:50.774 --> 00:22:55.014
But I couldn't remember if he had a Palestinian flag or the Israeli.

00:22:55.234 --> 00:22:59.054
I think he had a Palestinian flag because it seemed like the only images I saw

00:22:59.054 --> 00:23:00.214
was red, black and green.

00:23:00.214 --> 00:23:05.994
So I think he he had a Palestinian flag and, you know, but that's why I say

00:23:05.994 --> 00:23:09.814
I like those kind of news sources, because,

00:23:10.294 --> 00:23:14.414
you know, not unless the United States has a direct involvement in it,

00:23:14.514 --> 00:23:18.814
you're not going to see it on CNN or MSNBC or Fox or anywhere like that.

00:23:19.354 --> 00:23:23.434
It's like, well, if you see it on CNN, you've got to stay up like till two,

00:23:23.574 --> 00:23:25.954
three o'clock in the morning against the international show. Right.

00:23:27.294 --> 00:23:31.814
Outside of that, it's like, you know, it's you're not going to get it and especially

00:23:31.814 --> 00:23:33.034
black folks not going to get it.

00:23:33.174 --> 00:23:38.694
So those are the kind of news sources that I try to find something that's going

00:23:38.694 --> 00:23:45.974
to cover the whole globe instead of just, you know, what what we see here in the United States. So.

00:23:47.015 --> 00:23:52.395
It sounds like you're doing good. How have you, you know, and we'll get into

00:23:52.395 --> 00:23:55.255
details about the nonprofit, all that, but, but,

00:23:55.615 --> 00:24:00.815
you know, I haven't seen you since, since you came to Atlanta that time and

00:24:00.815 --> 00:24:03.435
you were, and you were doing some good things at that point,

00:24:03.435 --> 00:24:09.315
but how have you been adjusting personally and emotionally, you know,

00:24:09.735 --> 00:24:11.695
you know, through this whole thing?

00:24:11.795 --> 00:24:14.535
Cause I know my mom passed away in

00:24:14.535 --> 00:24:17.375
2013 and ironically you mentioned

00:24:17.375 --> 00:24:22.855
Colin Kaepernick it was right around that that Super Bowl when him and and we

00:24:22.855 --> 00:24:29.595
went to 49ers they lost to Baltimore I just you know and even though it's been

00:24:29.595 --> 00:24:35.875
that long I still miss her you know I'm saying I still deal with that so So you're,

00:24:35.935 --> 00:24:42.115
you're unfortunately relatively new to this process. So how you been doing?

00:24:42.455 --> 00:24:45.675
How, how have you been processing and all that?

00:24:46.435 --> 00:24:50.815
You know, as you said, you know, I still know, that's every day,

00:24:50.835 --> 00:24:55.075
you know, you know, I had some of her clothes that, you know,

00:24:55.655 --> 00:24:59.775
that was the first stop I went a couple of days later to her house,

00:25:00.055 --> 00:25:01.035
you know, for the first time.

00:25:01.035 --> 00:25:08.395
And it was just, you know, a very emotional, you know, over overcoming of my body.

00:25:08.875 --> 00:25:14.115
And, you know, I just took a few clothes out of room just to just to have her

00:25:14.115 --> 00:25:16.795
scent on it. Just something something to smell.

00:25:16.975 --> 00:25:21.475
And, you know, going on close to three years, you know, that scent is starting

00:25:21.475 --> 00:25:24.295
to fade away. It's not it's not smelling like her no more.

00:25:24.815 --> 00:25:29.895
I really didn't have any any videos, you know, of her voice.

00:25:29.895 --> 00:25:31.815
So it's the little things you start noticing.

00:25:31.855 --> 00:25:36.275
I'm forgetting what she's sounding like, forgetting what she smelled like.

00:25:37.015 --> 00:25:40.555
Tons of pictures. So I'm definitely grateful for that.

00:25:40.695 --> 00:25:43.835
But it's the, you know, just the little things, things that you,

00:25:43.835 --> 00:25:49.975
you hated, you know, her constantly just calling me just to say, hi, what am I doing?

00:25:50.435 --> 00:25:55.595
Okay. And hanging up. And, you know, I wish, no, I would, I would just do anything

00:25:55.595 --> 00:25:59.875
right now to just have her call, scream at me and just, just to be reminded of her.

00:25:59.895 --> 00:26:02.775
Again so it's mainly the little

00:26:02.775 --> 00:26:05.855
things you start missing the most instead of the big things my

00:26:05.855 --> 00:26:08.955
mother she knew i was a very

00:26:08.955 --> 00:26:16.035
low emotional person really wasn't a big family person family reunions none

00:26:16.035 --> 00:26:21.455
of that you know i constantly told my mother you know once your funeral happens

00:26:21.455 --> 00:26:25.595
that's pretty much probably the only funeral i'll be going to and last time

00:26:25.595 --> 00:26:27.295
i'll talk to anybody in this family.

00:26:29.128 --> 00:26:34.368
And, you know, unfortunately, that prediction has come true.

00:26:34.928 --> 00:26:38.408
And that's costing a lot of, you know, her side of the family,

00:26:38.408 --> 00:26:42.548
you know, to kind of be angry at me.

00:26:42.748 --> 00:26:44.248
But that's another thing. I

00:26:44.248 --> 00:26:48.808
don't see how people are angry at you that you don't want to talk to them.

00:26:49.468 --> 00:26:54.808
Yeah. But I wish I could do anything just to bring her back.

00:26:54.808 --> 00:27:00.308
But, you know, I would say the faster you accept something that you can't control,

00:27:00.608 --> 00:27:02.368
the easier it'll be for yourself.

00:27:02.748 --> 00:27:08.028
Amen to that, brother. I understand. Like I said, it's just,

00:27:08.308 --> 00:27:14.128
you know, it's a tough thing. So I commend you.

00:27:14.308 --> 00:27:19.308
And one of the things that you have been doing is that, you know,

00:27:19.628 --> 00:27:24.888
when we had talked the last time the nonprofit was getting off the ground,

00:27:25.068 --> 00:27:26.448
you had done a few events.

00:27:26.988 --> 00:27:31.028
I'm trying to think, had you written a book by the time we had seen each other?

00:27:31.088 --> 00:27:34.508
You were still working on the book. I think I'm trying to think when.

00:27:35.248 --> 00:27:38.708
It was i want to say it was like in 23 so

00:27:38.708 --> 00:27:41.548
it might have been right around when the book was coming out or

00:27:41.548 --> 00:27:48.668
something but yeah it was in 23 when you came 23 yeah yeah because i released

00:27:48.668 --> 00:27:52.928
so that was probably before i released the book on the one year anniversary

00:27:52.928 --> 00:27:59.168
yeah yeah okay yeah so i just so but you've been working on a non-profit talk

00:27:59.168 --> 00:28:01.288
talk to the audience about the non-profit.

00:28:02.328 --> 00:28:05.688
You know, what you've been doing, because you started off, you know,

00:28:05.868 --> 00:28:11.328
you had like a food drive, I think was the first thing that you did before you

00:28:11.328 --> 00:28:12.528
even started a non-profit.

00:28:12.688 --> 00:28:17.008
You just felt you had to do something, and you had like a cookout and a food

00:28:17.008 --> 00:28:20.628
drive and all that, and then I think once you started a non-profit,

00:28:20.808 --> 00:28:23.708
the first thing you did was like a back-to-school day thing.

00:28:23.868 --> 00:28:27.688
So talk about how the non-profit has evolved and.

00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:35.950
You know, what kind of impact do you see the nonprofit doing in the area you're working in?

00:28:36.350 --> 00:28:39.630
It's definitely got bigger and bigger, larger and better.

00:28:39.810 --> 00:28:43.230
I remember that first event, you know, I had nobody who I could call,

00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:46.590
nobody to assist me, nobody to help me.

00:28:46.870 --> 00:28:53.270
Now, I'm fortunate enough, you know, I could call anybody right now and I can

00:28:53.270 --> 00:28:57.770
call our current new senator here in April, April Baskin.

00:28:58.430 --> 00:29:02.970
And it's a lot of a lot of political connections have been made a lot of,

00:29:03.110 --> 00:29:06.350
you know, some of the heads of the biggest, biggest, you know,

00:29:06.530 --> 00:29:10.610
companies and organizations was a for profit or nonprofit has been made.

00:29:10.770 --> 00:29:15.490
And I'm definitely thankful, thankful for this, even though it came from an

00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:16.550
unfortunate situation.

00:29:16.910 --> 00:29:20.950
But, you know, this has caused me to do a lot of a lot of good here in the city,

00:29:21.430 --> 00:29:27.270
predominantly on the east side of Buffalo was a relating to our food drives, posing drives.

00:29:28.170 --> 00:29:32.430
We're partnering with another organization in which we're kind of going to take

00:29:32.430 --> 00:29:38.150
them under our umbrella in our mommy village, in which this is a maternal health

00:29:38.150 --> 00:29:41.030
organization headed by a doula,

00:29:41.710 --> 00:29:45.690
Shana Broughton, in which we assist mothers on their maternal health journey.

00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:49.070
And you know being around you know

00:29:49.070 --> 00:29:51.770
all those women are the doulas you know you

00:29:51.770 --> 00:29:55.650
hear you hear the constant discrimination and

00:29:55.650 --> 00:30:00.810
systemic racist practices that's you know causing deaths in a lot of black women

00:30:00.810 --> 00:30:05.470
one of the major you know statistics commonly told is you know a black mother

00:30:05.470 --> 00:30:10.930
going into a hospital pregnant is close to it's an 80 percent more chance she's

00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:14.110
more likely to die compared to her white counterparts.

00:30:14.610 --> 00:30:23.750
So I'm trying to have my hand in every aspect of the socioeconomic pie chart, as you can say,

00:30:23.910 --> 00:30:31.130
to assist those who unfortunately fail through the social safety net or those that nobody care about.

00:30:31.950 --> 00:30:35.710
Yeah. And you mentioned Senator Baskin.

00:30:36.210 --> 00:30:41.410
I've talked with her office. I think she's going to come on at some time, probably –.

00:30:43.244 --> 00:30:48.324
I know it's going to be after the session, and I got to get with her folks to

00:30:48.324 --> 00:30:53.924
make sure that they get a date because my dates are filling up as far as getting booked.

00:30:54.644 --> 00:30:59.124
And there's a sister here in Atlanta that's a doula that's agreed to come on the show.

00:30:59.604 --> 00:31:06.304
So I'm glad that you are taking an interest, and I keep up with Jillian.

00:31:06.504 --> 00:31:09.624
Do you and Jillian work together on anything?

00:31:10.424 --> 00:31:14.644
Oh, we work together here and there. we kind of run into two different,

00:31:14.664 --> 00:31:17.884
you know, things. She's more into the arts and media.

00:31:18.244 --> 00:31:21.964
I'm more into the behind the scenes stuff. But yeah, we're definitely close.

00:31:22.244 --> 00:31:26.244
You know, we, we message play each other, you know, with each other all the

00:31:26.244 --> 00:31:31.684
time to, you know, we constantly let, let each other know how proud we are of them.

00:31:31.984 --> 00:31:35.444
We did have an event together highlighting local black authors.

00:31:36.324 --> 00:31:40.924
Basically promoting our books and other friends of ours books as well.

00:31:41.044 --> 00:31:43.744
But we're definitely close now what was the

00:31:43.744 --> 00:31:46.504
lady's name was her name it starts with

00:31:46.504 --> 00:31:49.384
a z is it maxwell her last

00:31:49.384 --> 00:31:52.204
name they got uh she got elected to

00:31:52.204 --> 00:31:57.364
something oh zanetta everhart everhart i don't know where i got maxwell from

00:31:57.364 --> 00:32:03.724
yeah because her son was wounded tops so and she how she's doing good and and

00:32:03.724 --> 00:32:09.804
the son's doing good oh yeah both both are doing tremendously well obviously you You know,

00:32:09.904 --> 00:32:13.224
I really can't speak that much for a son, but, you know, if you're.

00:32:14.185 --> 00:32:18.145
No, if you got bullet fragments in you, you know, in shrap metal for the rest

00:32:18.145 --> 00:32:19.465
of your life after running,

00:32:19.685 --> 00:32:24.245
running from almost, you know, being assassinated by, you know,

00:32:24.325 --> 00:32:29.065
a racist, I'm pretty sure you're going to have some, some type of psychological

00:32:29.065 --> 00:32:32.145
trauma or issues, which, you know,

00:32:32.425 --> 00:32:35.565
I can never understand what that'll be like.

00:32:35.565 --> 00:32:38.405
So to my best to the

00:32:38.405 --> 00:32:41.165
best of my ability in which times i've hung out with

00:32:41.165 --> 00:32:44.405
him he you know he's definitely seen upbeat

00:32:44.405 --> 00:32:50.325
seen seen engaging but like you know all of us when he goes to his dark places

00:32:50.325 --> 00:32:54.585
when he's by himself you know i really can't can speak on what's in his mind

00:32:54.585 --> 00:33:01.385
with zanetta i definitely consider you know no me zanetta as zanetta told me

00:33:01.385 --> 00:33:03.905
i am one of one of her inner circle people,

00:33:04.265 --> 00:33:06.225
me and her, we have a great relationship.

00:33:06.225 --> 00:33:11.265
I consider her like a big sister, you know, slash mentor, you know,

00:33:11.545 --> 00:33:14.665
no, she has tried, you know, as well as the other victim,

00:33:15.305 --> 00:33:21.465
one of the victim's sons in there, Ruth Whitfield, which is the mother of Garnell Whitfield.

00:33:22.165 --> 00:33:26.025
Who's the former Buffalo police fire commissioner currently running for mayor

00:33:26.025 --> 00:33:27.285
here in the city of Buffalo,

00:33:27.645 --> 00:33:31.005
and I definitely consider them both mentors that I'm looking to,

00:33:31.085 --> 00:33:37.165
you know, try to tip, you know, tip my foot into the political atmosphere, see what I can do.

00:33:37.725 --> 00:33:44.005
Yeah, yeah, and I feel you about Zanetta's son, because,

00:33:44.245 --> 00:33:48.725
you know, like you said, you can't really know what's going on with anybody

00:33:48.725 --> 00:33:54.825
internally, but I'm glad to know that when you've seen him, he's been in a good way.

00:33:55.982 --> 00:34:01.222
So talk to me about, you know, we just rattling off individuals and stuff and

00:34:01.222 --> 00:34:02.742
you know them a lot more than I do.

00:34:03.182 --> 00:34:09.242
But how about the whole East Side? Because one of the issues that that you and

00:34:09.242 --> 00:34:15.342
Jillian had brought up about, you know, the struggles that were going on prior to the shooting.

00:34:17.202 --> 00:34:24.862
So what what impact what kind of progress has been made?

00:34:24.862 --> 00:34:30.282
Has there really been anything significant outside of what you're trying to

00:34:30.282 --> 00:34:34.142
do with your organization and, you know, the individuals we just mentioned,

00:34:34.342 --> 00:34:35.982
they're doing their part.

00:34:37.762 --> 00:34:42.742
But what's still going on? What's the challenges? Just kind of give me an update

00:34:42.742 --> 00:34:44.322
about what's going on in the Eastside.

00:34:45.042 --> 00:34:49.162
Same thing. To me, nothing has changed. We still, once again,

00:34:49.262 --> 00:34:50.822
have the highest cancer rates.

00:34:50.822 --> 00:34:56.722
We have the highest rates of preventable and critical diseases or illness,

00:34:56.922 --> 00:34:58.722
the highest rates of STDs,

00:34:59.462 --> 00:35:04.442
highest rates of black men with no type of high school diploma,

00:35:04.582 --> 00:35:07.402
no GED, worse educational rates.

00:35:08.022 --> 00:35:09.842
No, it's still the same.

00:35:10.962 --> 00:35:16.262
You know, I'm currently in the process of writing my new book titled,

00:35:16.382 --> 00:35:18.322
you know, Dreams from a Son.

00:35:18.922 --> 00:35:26.802
And I plan on the very first page I'm putting in how 514 arguably was the greatest

00:35:26.802 --> 00:35:32.142
thing to happen to the city of Buffalo because that is making a lot of people

00:35:32.142 --> 00:35:34.962
are eating and feeding their families from it.

00:35:35.362 --> 00:35:41.682
You know, every every gala you go to, every company organization, you go on their website.

00:35:42.042 --> 00:35:46.242
You know, this is what we've done, what we're doing because of 514.

00:35:46.242 --> 00:35:49.782
This is how we're helping the community because of 514.

00:35:50.422 --> 00:35:54.582
You have, you know, the Buffalo Bills here.

00:35:55.622 --> 00:35:58.842
I believe they're one of the biggest frauds and perpetrators here in the city.

00:35:59.342 --> 00:36:03.562
You know, they're selling these Stop Hate and Racism Choose Love shirts.

00:36:03.822 --> 00:36:08.482
They're selling these shirts to the community that was affected by somebody

00:36:08.482 --> 00:36:11.022
not in the community choosing Kate.

00:36:11.822 --> 00:36:20.102
Those shirts probably have generated, I'll say probably upwards to at least the six, seven figures.

00:36:20.402 --> 00:36:25.282
None of that money has really been reinvested onto the east side of Buffalo.

00:36:25.282 --> 00:36:30.002
You have a lot of, just a lot of companies getting grant money,

00:36:30.142 --> 00:36:35.662
you know, from Governor Kathy Hochul to invest on the east side of the Buffalo.

00:36:36.382 --> 00:36:41.882
But, you know, they're holding this money and they're giving out very, very sporadically.

00:36:41.882 --> 00:36:46.942
And I just find it ironic how you have, you know, some of these nonprofits here

00:36:46.942 --> 00:36:51.322
getting money, you know, from the state, from the county,

00:36:51.882 --> 00:36:57.082
money based off of the tragedy of 514 to help in the east side of Buffalo.

00:36:57.522 --> 00:37:02.202
Meanwhile, you have somebody directly affected from that event, from that tragedy.

00:37:03.310 --> 00:37:07.510
Who can't get any of this to help in a community he was born and raised.

00:37:07.890 --> 00:37:10.790
You have a lot of these at risk, you know,

00:37:11.150 --> 00:37:15.370
youth nonprofits to help people in these community that once again,

00:37:15.370 --> 00:37:16.770
don't look like you and I,

00:37:16.970 --> 00:37:21.570
the majority of these organizations are either spearheaded by,

00:37:21.570 --> 00:37:27.390
by white people or spearheaded by African Americans who aren't even from here.

00:37:27.970 --> 00:37:32.350
So what I was going to say was, I didn't mean to cut you off,

00:37:32.350 --> 00:37:36.010
but, But why do you why do you think that is?

00:37:36.170 --> 00:37:43.450
Because I know the people that we were talking about individually have said the same thing.

00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:47.270
And a couple of them are in positions where they they they are.

00:37:47.510 --> 00:37:53.770
They're in the institutions to try to shake some things up and guide some resources.

00:37:53.770 --> 00:37:58.170
But why do you think that these companies,

00:37:58.790 --> 00:38:05.090
you know, because like you mentioned, the bills, they make that a big deal anytime, you know,

00:38:05.490 --> 00:38:10.570
the team is mentioned, even if you follow hockey, even with the Sabres,

00:38:10.710 --> 00:38:16.750
they mentioned how they've invested in the community and even more so after 514.

00:38:18.030 --> 00:38:25.410
But, you know, you're on the ground working and you're not getting any of that benefit.

00:38:25.550 --> 00:38:29.390
Why do you think that is? Where do you think, who do you think the gatekeeper

00:38:29.390 --> 00:38:30.890
is, is basically what I'm asking.

00:38:31.250 --> 00:38:34.970
All right, quick story about the Sabres. The Sabres definitely have been keeping

00:38:34.970 --> 00:38:36.470
their word with everything.

00:38:36.730 --> 00:38:40.270
They've kept me in the loop regarding everything they do. They even asked for

00:38:40.270 --> 00:38:44.950
my assistance on the east side of Buffalo, and they've definitely sponsored

00:38:44.950 --> 00:38:47.390
and donated to me with stuff I've had.

00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:51.950
With the Buffalo Bills, they kicked me off the field at the home opener after

00:38:51.950 --> 00:38:57.550
5-14 because I wouldn't wear the shirts in which they was having a tribute to

00:38:57.550 --> 00:39:00.870
honor those lost during 5-14. Yeah, I remember that.

00:39:01.230 --> 00:39:04.050
But regarding the gatekeepers in the city, it's...

00:39:05.111 --> 00:39:10.751
I just say it's either the older people that don't want to, you know,

00:39:10.871 --> 00:39:15.871
pass the baton back or it's people that, you know, they have the money.

00:39:16.691 --> 00:39:20.231
You know, if I'm worth, if my organization is worth, you know,

00:39:20.391 --> 00:39:24.571
$10 million, $15 million, $20 million, you know, why should I give you any?

00:39:24.951 --> 00:39:29.891
They want to keep, you know, helping out their shareholders,

00:39:30.171 --> 00:39:31.611
keep helping out their board members.

00:39:31.611 --> 00:39:35.511
That's why people really didn't feel feel

00:39:35.511 --> 00:39:38.391
that sorry for the you know the gentleman who was

00:39:38.391 --> 00:39:42.871
assassinated the united united health care worker who was assassinated is definitely

00:39:42.871 --> 00:39:48.811
an unfortunate situation that his family has to go through with this but people

00:39:48.811 --> 00:39:53.011
are just getting tired you start finding out the things you know that came to

00:39:53.011 --> 00:39:57.211
light and on record from what they did and what our other insurance companies are doing.

00:39:57.971 --> 00:40:03.411
People are just getting tired of being tired and feeling tired when you have,

00:40:04.211 --> 00:40:07.671
you know, just look how Donald Trump became the pregnant, became president.

00:40:08.211 --> 00:40:13.131
He was just a rich white man who woke up one day, said, I feel like running for president.

00:40:13.331 --> 00:40:18.651
You have Elon Musk, no, no political career whatsoever.

00:40:19.611 --> 00:40:22.691
Now he's the de facto head person of

00:40:22.691 --> 00:40:27.231
a department that he created yeah so

00:40:27.231 --> 00:40:30.171
do you think do you think the a lot

00:40:30.171 --> 00:40:33.411
of this stuff because some of the a lot of this stuff was happening before

00:40:33.411 --> 00:40:38.951
514 you and others have mentioned that but do you think the current state of

00:40:38.951 --> 00:40:44.271
politics has made it worse is it going to be harder for you to get the money

00:40:44.271 --> 00:40:52.891
is it going to be harder for you to to to utilize people like senator Baskin and, and others to, to,

00:40:53.071 --> 00:40:57.131
to get the help that the East side needs.

00:40:57.331 --> 00:41:01.671
I mean, it's kind of, you know, you, you're, you're a very straightforward brother.

00:41:02.111 --> 00:41:07.211
So you don't, you know, you know when to turn on the charm when you got to do it.

00:41:07.431 --> 00:41:11.931
But when it comes to telling how you really feel, you, you, you lay it out there.

00:41:12.051 --> 00:41:17.051
So just kind of tell me what, what do you think is happening now in the current

00:41:17.051 --> 00:41:21.971
state of politics that is going to be a problem for you to do what you need

00:41:21.971 --> 00:41:23.291
to do to help your people.

00:41:24.211 --> 00:41:25.831
I mean, I don't like.

00:41:27.428 --> 00:41:30.588
I don't want to say chucking and jiving because it's not that,

00:41:30.848 --> 00:41:36.348
but I don't want to be caught in this political, you know, facade,

00:41:36.848 --> 00:41:41.168
you know, having to be around people who I know they're not going to do nothing.

00:41:41.908 --> 00:41:45.808
They're not going to be able to assist me. Fortunately, I know personally,

00:41:46.348 --> 00:41:48.408
April Baskin isn't one of those people.

00:41:48.408 --> 00:41:53.388
But at the end of the day, you know, the city of Buffalo, I believe,

00:41:53.628 --> 00:41:59.068
you know, we're negative 50 or 60 million dollars in debt for this for this

00:41:59.068 --> 00:42:02.428
fiscal year based off reports for last fiscal year.

00:42:03.228 --> 00:42:07.548
And you obviously got, you know, the current administration and presidency trying

00:42:07.548 --> 00:42:11.548
to even slash, you know, the federal budget even more.

00:42:12.328 --> 00:42:15.228
So it's how. You know, there.

00:42:15.428 --> 00:42:20.308
Oh, it's hard to sell me. I can make lemon juice when you give me some,

00:42:20.308 --> 00:42:22.348
you know, some dried out lemons.

00:42:23.088 --> 00:42:29.068
If they give you any lemons at all. Exactly. Even if I get them. Yeah, I feel.

00:42:29.588 --> 00:42:39.728
Well, I know you enough where I know you're going to make the best out of that situation.

00:42:40.448 --> 00:42:44.228
I know because it's not going to be easy anywhere.

00:42:45.328 --> 00:42:52.008
You know, but I just, you know, it's like there are people that you root for. Right.

00:42:52.668 --> 00:42:59.208
And in my life, you're one of those folks because I was rooting from you afar

00:42:59.208 --> 00:43:02.268
when you reached out to me and said, hey, brother, I want to come on your show.

00:43:04.408 --> 00:43:07.908
And, you know, I was really humbled by that,

00:43:08.228 --> 00:43:16.968
you know, and then to get to talk to you and meet you in person and understand

00:43:16.968 --> 00:43:21.928
what, you know, some of the things that drive you, it's hard not to root for you.

00:43:22.448 --> 00:43:26.928
So I want people to feel the same way I do about you.

00:43:27.048 --> 00:43:32.208
I want them to get behind you and the work that you're doing and to not forget.

00:43:32.208 --> 00:43:38.648
It's one thing to always, because we live in a society where we always are attracted

00:43:38.648 --> 00:43:40.468
to the shiny thing in front of us.

00:43:40.648 --> 00:43:46.048
And that's why I was trying to do something different instead of waiting until

00:43:46.048 --> 00:43:50.248
May to get you on like everybody else is going to try to do.

00:43:50.488 --> 00:43:55.628
I wanted to get you on whenever you wanted to come on and just kind of give

00:43:55.628 --> 00:44:00.888
a real update about what's happening. And so as always with any guest I have.

00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:07.399
I give them a moment to promote what they're doing, but especially with you,

00:44:07.579 --> 00:44:11.399
I want the listeners to do what they can to help you out.

00:44:11.759 --> 00:44:17.279
So tell the folks again about Agents for Advocacy, give the whole spiel,

00:44:17.419 --> 00:44:20.339
how people can reach you, how people can donate, all that stuff.

00:44:21.339 --> 00:44:26.219
Absolutely. Right here, if you want to go donate, you can go on our website,

00:44:26.439 --> 00:44:29.779
agentsforadvocacy.org and donate via PayPal.

00:44:29.779 --> 00:44:35.279
Now, our organization, we're committed to trying to spread awareness on socioeconomic

00:44:35.279 --> 00:44:40.659
inequality, along with systemic racism, and basically showcase that,

00:44:40.899 --> 00:44:42.439
you know, no matter where you're from,

00:44:42.999 --> 00:44:47.699
no matter your environment, you should be entitled to the same resources as,

00:44:47.879 --> 00:44:51.439
like, same resources as currently bearing Trump right now.

00:44:51.939 --> 00:44:55.679
And unfortunately, we live in a day and age where, you know,

00:44:55.759 --> 00:45:03.359
the idea of meritocracy is just that it's an idea sold to people at the bottom

00:45:03.359 --> 00:45:05.379
to keep working hard to get to the top,

00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:10.319
although the people at the top will cut them off by the time they get to the middle.

00:45:11.332 --> 00:45:14.772
So what I'm basically doing right now is trying to help everybody,

00:45:15.072 --> 00:45:20.732
you know, not necessarily under me, but, you know, people who come from where

00:45:20.732 --> 00:45:24.392
I come from, people who are in the same situation as me.

00:45:24.552 --> 00:45:27.372
So I'm trying to help a lot of at-risk youth.

00:45:27.632 --> 00:45:32.092
I'm definitely fortunate. And then I just got a position as a justice juvenile

00:45:32.092 --> 00:45:39.192
director in which I'm trying to help, you know, the bottom of the bottom at risk.

00:45:39.392 --> 00:45:45.492
Those who already have no charges pending probation, those who know they're

00:45:45.492 --> 00:45:52.672
there as a false step away from being locked up in county jail or prison for a long, long time.

00:45:53.372 --> 00:45:57.552
These are the people I'm trying to help. I'm trying to help the 17-year-old

00:45:57.552 --> 00:46:03.232
maternal woman who unfortunately had sex one time, got pregnant,

00:46:03.412 --> 00:46:05.412
and the father just skipped town.

00:46:05.772 --> 00:46:11.072
I'm trying to help these people. Unfortunately, society deems that you should

00:46:11.072 --> 00:46:14.012
just forget about them and move on.

00:46:14.632 --> 00:46:22.352
And you have a lot of nonprofits like this doing the work that the government should do.

00:46:22.352 --> 00:46:27.532
So, you know, it was just on the news how a woman's kids froze to death in Detroit

00:46:27.532 --> 00:46:33.472
because the mobile response team didn't get back to her in time when she was

00:46:33.472 --> 00:46:35.672
calling for two straight days.

00:46:36.452 --> 00:46:42.632
So, unfortunately, you see a lot of stuff like this and you hear a lot of stuff

00:46:42.632 --> 00:46:45.392
like this when you're out doing all the work in the community.

00:46:46.152 --> 00:46:51.752
And I know myself, I know Jillian, I know there's plenty of young people.

00:46:52.772 --> 00:46:56.372
I don't think we can call ourselves young no more. I saw on Facebook,

00:46:56.612 --> 00:46:57.712
they say, well, she's 35.

00:46:58.452 --> 00:47:02.992
Once you're 35, you graduated to big bro slash um. So I can't be,

00:47:03.152 --> 00:47:06.032
I don't think I'm considered young no more.

00:47:06.392 --> 00:47:10.872
But we're trying to help those people forget about. Yeah.

00:47:11.472 --> 00:47:15.412
Yeah, well, Mark Talley, I know you're going to do it. Thank you.

00:47:16.077 --> 00:47:20.337
I know your heart's in the right place. You've been very, very transparent.

00:47:21.457 --> 00:47:25.237
Even before you wrote your book, when you first wrote your biography,

00:47:25.617 --> 00:47:27.397
they kind of get it out there.

00:47:27.557 --> 00:47:31.437
I mean, you were you you were very transparent, even in that bio.

00:47:32.337 --> 00:47:37.777
So, you know, I know where your heart is. I just want you to keep fighting.

00:47:38.237 --> 00:47:41.817
You know, it's not going to be easy. It never has been.

00:47:42.557 --> 00:47:45.377
I just turned 60. and you

00:47:45.377 --> 00:47:48.637
see that my hair didn't gave up on the fight but I haven't so

00:47:48.637 --> 00:47:52.857
you know just just keep doing what you're doing brother anytime you want to

00:47:52.857 --> 00:47:57.757
come on and and use me as a platform you're more than welcome to do that and

00:47:57.757 --> 00:48:02.637
I keep praying one day God's gonna give me my wish that I'm gonna get out there

00:48:02.637 --> 00:48:07.097
and actually get on the ground myself and see what's going on in Buffalo but,

00:48:07.737 --> 00:48:13.057
until then you stand guard and do what you gotta do and and keep doing the work

00:48:13.057 --> 00:48:14.637
brother it's always good to talk to you.

00:48:15.337 --> 00:48:19.037
Likewise, sir. Thank you so much. Definitely appreciate having me on your platform.

00:48:19.657 --> 00:48:37.617
All right, guys. We're going to catch y'all on the other side. We'll be right back.

00:48:21.520 --> 00:48:41.040
Music.

00:48:41.097 --> 00:48:47.097
All right, and we are back. So now it is time for my next guest, Mike Nellis.

00:48:47.097 --> 00:48:52.497
Mike Nellis is an entrepreneur and marketing expert who has raised over a billion

00:48:52.497 --> 00:48:58.697
dollars in low-dollar online donations for political campaigns and social impact organizations.

00:48:59.037 --> 00:49:04.617
He owns Authentic, an award-winning marketing agency that specializes in online

00:49:04.617 --> 00:49:07.737
fundraising, paid media, and creative design.

00:49:07.737 --> 00:49:15.497
Last year, he founded Quiller.ai, a new tech startup that is using generative

00:49:15.497 --> 00:49:20.517
AI to revolutionize online fundraising for social impact causes.

00:49:20.857 --> 00:49:27.377
Quiller.ai was named Startup of the Year by Campaign Tech and AI Efficiency

00:49:27.377 --> 00:49:30.137
of the Year by Adweek in 2023.

00:49:30.757 --> 00:49:37.137
Mike was named Strategist of the Year by the Shorty Impact Awards in 2024.

00:49:37.817 --> 00:49:42.257
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:49:42.257 --> 00:49:46.097
on this podcast, Mike Nellis.

00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:58.000
Music.

00:49:58.163 --> 00:50:02.203
Mike Nellis. How are you doing, sir? You doing good? I'm good. How are you, Eric?

00:50:02.983 --> 00:50:08.823
Well, I am honored to have you on, man. You have been a hot commodity during

00:50:08.823 --> 00:50:13.103
the election, previous election, and immediately afterwards.

00:50:13.883 --> 00:50:18.763
So when you agreed to come on, I was really, really humbled and honored that you would do that.

00:50:19.323 --> 00:50:22.323
Well, I appreciate that. And I just kind of, well, yes, sir.

00:50:22.603 --> 00:50:26.483
And I just wanted to kind of pick your brain a little bit about where we are

00:50:26.483 --> 00:50:29.883
and more and more about you.

00:50:30.423 --> 00:50:36.203
Because the interviews I've seen of you, people just pick your brain, right?

00:50:36.383 --> 00:50:40.303
And kind of get you fired up about stuff. But I want people,

00:50:40.583 --> 00:50:43.943
the audience to kind of know a little bit about who you are, right?

00:50:44.843 --> 00:50:51.603
And, you know, as we go through, you know, you can let people know your knowledge and all that stuff.

00:50:51.803 --> 00:50:58.403
So I like to, you know, So I'm a consultant teacher by heart.

00:50:58.923 --> 00:51:04.443
And so I like to do icebreakers and stuff. Okay. So my first icebreaker is a quote.

00:51:04.983 --> 00:51:08.543
And I want you to respond to this quote. It is all on you.

00:51:09.003 --> 00:51:13.043
No one is coming to save you. No one will fix your problems.

00:51:13.263 --> 00:51:15.283
No one will change your mindsets.

00:51:15.623 --> 00:51:20.823
No one will hand you the things you want in life. It's just you. It's all on you.

00:51:21.203 --> 00:51:24.463
There's a power in that. What does that quote mean to you?

00:51:25.183 --> 00:51:27.783
I mean, I think that's a great, great quote. I say it all the time.

00:51:28.143 --> 00:51:31.063
So I really, I do truly believe no one is coming to save you.

00:51:31.183 --> 00:51:37.023
And I think that a lot of people are waiting for someone to make their life happen for them.

00:51:37.283 --> 00:51:41.023
And I think I fell into that trap for the first part of my adult life where

00:51:41.023 --> 00:51:42.783
I kind of waited for people to fix my problems.

00:51:42.923 --> 00:51:46.243
I mean, if nobody knows anything about me, I used to weigh like 600 pounds.

00:51:46.383 --> 00:51:49.443
I used to struggle with depression and anxiety, some suicidal ideation.

00:51:49.583 --> 00:51:52.883
And I kind of like put those things past me. And a big part of it was sort of

00:51:52.883 --> 00:51:56.003
learning the difference between fault and responsibility.

00:51:56.243 --> 00:51:59.523
And in the first half of my career, I spent a lot of time blaming everybody

00:51:59.523 --> 00:52:01.443
and everything for every problem that I had in my life.

00:52:01.563 --> 00:52:05.503
And then I sort of realized through help and therapy and support from my friends

00:52:05.503 --> 00:52:08.623
and my wife that I'm responsible for everything that happens in my life.

00:52:08.723 --> 00:52:11.583
And so I kind of take radical responsibility for everything.

00:52:11.803 --> 00:52:15.043
And I think in this climate that we're in with everything that's going on in

00:52:15.043 --> 00:52:18.043
Washington, where things are deeply uncomfortable for a lot of people and a

00:52:18.043 --> 00:52:18.943
lot of people are getting hurt.

00:52:19.463 --> 00:52:22.403
People are looking for one big idea

00:52:22.403 --> 00:52:25.103
or one big personality or one democratic politician to

00:52:25.103 --> 00:52:27.943
step up and save us and nobody's coming to save any

00:52:27.943 --> 00:52:30.783
of us like it's going to be a million little acts of

00:52:30.783 --> 00:52:34.363
resistance that get us through the next four years and it's going to be stuff

00:52:34.363 --> 00:52:37.643
that gets remembered and stuff that doesn't it's going to be big moments on

00:52:37.643 --> 00:52:40.563
tv it's going to be things that are completely forgotten in your community and

00:52:40.563 --> 00:52:44.143
i think we need everybody to step up in their little corner of the world and

00:52:44.143 --> 00:52:47.903
i think that plays out in every aspect of my life and i imagine for yours too

00:52:47.903 --> 00:52:50.183
eric if you're bringing up that quote. Yeah.

00:52:51.529 --> 00:52:55.949
So my last, well, my next little icebreaker is I want you to give me a number

00:52:55.949 --> 00:52:59.229
between one and 20. All right, 10.

00:53:00.049 --> 00:53:02.909
All right. Here's your question. All right.

00:53:03.109 --> 00:53:09.609
What one fact do you wish people who voted differently than you in the last election knew?

00:53:09.969 --> 00:53:14.249
Either about how you vote, about the current state of the world, about anything.

00:53:14.769 --> 00:53:18.389
That an individual voter was bringing to the polling booth. Yeah.

00:53:18.769 --> 00:53:21.669
That's what you want to know? A little confused question. Okay.

00:53:23.149 --> 00:53:29.669
I mean, I'm someone who's very lucky to have worked closely with Kamala Harris in the past.

00:53:29.809 --> 00:53:32.389
I didn't work on this last presidential election, but I worked for her for five

00:53:32.389 --> 00:53:35.069
years before that and was a senior advisor to her for a while.

00:53:35.889 --> 00:53:41.309
I wish people just knew what a great person that she was, that she was in this for the right reasons.

00:53:41.549 --> 00:53:46.349
And I mean, look, I'm an old, I'm now, I mean, I'm not old, I'm 37,

00:53:46.629 --> 00:53:48.029
but I'm an old Paul Wellstone Democrat.

00:53:48.029 --> 00:53:52.549
Like I really believe that politics should be about the betterment of people's

00:53:52.549 --> 00:53:55.829
lives and that every action we take should be about putting a little bit more

00:53:55.829 --> 00:53:58.749
money in people's pockets, helping them retire, helping them live their lives.

00:53:59.329 --> 00:54:03.989
And we've gotten so far away from that in every aspect of our politics, whether it's Trump.

00:54:04.109 --> 00:54:05.869
And I also think the Democratic Party has gotten away from that,

00:54:05.909 --> 00:54:07.849
too. I think we have a lot of soul searching that we have to do.

00:54:08.229 --> 00:54:11.789
But Kamala, I think, was always in it for the right reasons.

00:54:11.929 --> 00:54:14.609
Like when she woke up in the morning, she was trying to help people.

00:54:14.789 --> 00:54:18.189
She was trying to do it the right way. And maybe she wasn't the right candidate for the right moment.

00:54:18.489 --> 00:54:21.189
Certainly the American people didn't feel that way because we lost the popular

00:54:21.189 --> 00:54:22.109
vote in the electoral college.

00:54:22.209 --> 00:54:25.529
But I wish people knew that she was a genuinely decent person that was trying

00:54:25.529 --> 00:54:27.969
to do the right thing for everybody every single day.

00:54:28.149 --> 00:54:32.009
And I also wish they knew that Donald Trump doesn't give two shits about them

00:54:32.009 --> 00:54:33.349
because he only cares about himself.

00:54:33.769 --> 00:54:38.209
And the fact that a lot of people don't know that in this country irks me to this day.

00:54:39.277 --> 00:54:47.537
So how did you get started in politics? I was 18 and wanted to change the world.

00:54:48.057 --> 00:54:51.377
And I was in college. And frankly, I was struggling in college because I didn't

00:54:51.377 --> 00:54:53.237
really understand the value of anything that I was learning.

00:54:53.417 --> 00:54:56.477
I literally flunked out of a music appreciation class.

00:54:57.017 --> 00:55:01.217
And on the day that it was actually a year ago last week, or excuse me, was it?

00:55:01.497 --> 00:55:05.497
It was 20 years ago last week. Excuse me. I saw Barack Obama's announcement

00:55:05.497 --> 00:55:08.917
speech on the state on the steps of the state capitol in Illinois when he was running for president.

00:55:09.397 --> 00:55:11.937
And he said something like, I'm heading off to Iowa. We're going to win the

00:55:11.937 --> 00:55:13.437
Iowa caucus and I hope to see you there.

00:55:13.517 --> 00:55:17.157
And I got in my red Ford pickup truck and I drove all the way out to,

00:55:17.417 --> 00:55:21.437
I want to say it was Morningside Community College, but I'm not 100% sure that

00:55:21.437 --> 00:55:22.617
was actually where it was.

00:55:23.057 --> 00:55:25.777
First, first rally. And I showed up like a couple hours early and I said,

00:55:25.877 --> 00:55:28.077
I want to, I want to help. Can I be helpful?

00:55:28.577 --> 00:55:31.657
And the staff there were overwhelmed and didn't have enough people to help.

00:55:31.777 --> 00:55:35.217
So they gave me stuff to do. I think I was setting up folding chairs and putting

00:55:35.217 --> 00:55:38.457
media credentials together and stuff like that. And basically for the last 20

00:55:38.457 --> 00:55:39.837
years, people have been giving me stuff to do.

00:55:40.137 --> 00:55:45.157
And my motivations for that were pretty simple. Like one, I really oppose the Iraq war.

00:55:45.357 --> 00:55:47.697
I think at the heart of everything that I care about, you know,

00:55:47.777 --> 00:55:49.877
I just, I don't, I don't want the government doing stupid stuff.

00:55:50.137 --> 00:55:54.137
And I, it's really simple, but I don't want the government doing stupid wars

00:55:54.137 --> 00:55:57.757
in the Middle East and getting people killed, you know, both at home and abroad

00:55:57.757 --> 00:55:59.957
that don't deserve it. I think government should work for the people.

00:56:00.197 --> 00:56:03.217
And I didn't think the economy was set up in a very big way.

00:56:03.317 --> 00:56:06.337
I mean, at the time, Republicans had been trying to cut Social Security and Medicare.

00:56:06.857 --> 00:56:09.417
And had failed. They're trying to do that again now because it's what they always

00:56:09.417 --> 00:56:12.657
do when they take power. And I don't think that's in the best interest of the American people.

00:56:13.197 --> 00:56:15.397
And, you know, those were the things I really, I really cared about then.

00:56:15.397 --> 00:56:19.777
And I saw that in Barack Obama and I thought we had a chance to do something special. And we did.

00:56:20.037 --> 00:56:22.537
I got to be part of something, a very small part of something really special.

00:56:22.537 --> 00:56:30.737
Yeah well you were you you had it easy i i would say because you were you were

00:56:30.737 --> 00:56:36.557
you were on staff i was actually on the ballot in 08 so i was i was running

00:56:36.557 --> 00:56:39.017
for the u.s senate in mississippi.

00:56:39.697 --> 00:56:44.897
But i felt the same way about the enthusiasm and all that and even though i

00:56:44.897 --> 00:56:50.137
didn't win the fact that he won was a magical moment and and i'll never forget

00:56:50.137 --> 00:56:51.877
that experience as long as i Yeah.

00:56:52.697 --> 00:56:56.377
And listen, I don't know anything about your run, but I thank you for running

00:56:56.377 --> 00:57:00.637
because we don't have enough people that are willing to step up and put their name on a ballot.

00:57:00.897 --> 00:57:04.317
And that's a hard thing to do. Like I worked for Mike Espy when he ran for Senate

00:57:04.317 --> 00:57:08.337
in Mississippi. And I think the world of Mike and wish that he had he had won.

00:57:08.537 --> 00:57:11.677
But it's hard to get up there. And I'm sure that there are other people down

00:57:11.677 --> 00:57:15.177
ballot that won because of you and the investments that you made.

00:57:15.317 --> 00:57:18.197
And like, that's a lot of time and effort and energy. So you should you should

00:57:18.197 --> 00:57:19.457
be proud of that. I hope you are.

00:57:20.157 --> 00:57:24.317
Yeah So just to kind of show the age difference,

00:57:25.890 --> 00:57:33.310
Mike Espy first ran for Congress in 1986, and I was a senior in college.

00:57:35.690 --> 00:57:37.190
And I had not been born yet.

00:57:40.330 --> 00:57:46.010
Just so you understand the generational thing. But why did you choose fundraising

00:57:46.010 --> 00:57:48.890
as the best use of your talents in the political arena?

00:57:49.950 --> 00:57:54.330
You know, it's honestly by accident. But I so I was never actually on staff

00:57:54.330 --> 00:57:58.090
on Obama. I was like an unpaid volunteer. I think they called me like a fellow or something.

00:57:58.470 --> 00:58:01.510
So kudos to them for getting me to work for free for a really long time.

00:58:01.930 --> 00:58:06.650
My first paying job was on a Senate race in Nebraska, which is where I was from. I grew up in Omaha.

00:58:07.350 --> 00:58:11.090
And I remember being in the room and somebody was like, hey,

00:58:11.150 --> 00:58:13.670
the Obama campaign raises a lot of money online.

00:58:13.770 --> 00:58:17.210
I wonder if you can raise money online and for the Senate campaign.

00:58:17.310 --> 00:58:19.530
And they were like, does anybody want to figure it out? And I was a finance assistant.

00:58:19.670 --> 00:58:22.850
My job was, and I love the candidate. His name was Scott Klebb.

00:58:22.930 --> 00:58:23.790
He was an awesome candidate. it.

00:58:23.950 --> 00:58:27.010
My job was like to make sure that he made his phone calls and then I could give

00:58:27.010 --> 00:58:28.730
him his like chew because he loved chewing tobacco.

00:58:29.390 --> 00:58:32.510
And I hated the job. I was really bad at it. I didn't want to do it.

00:58:32.650 --> 00:58:35.210
And so I raised my hand. I was like, I couldn't have been more than 19.

00:58:35.330 --> 00:58:37.430
I was like 19, 20 raised my hand. I was like, I'll figure it out.

00:58:37.530 --> 00:58:38.690
I'll figure out how to raise money online.

00:58:38.870 --> 00:58:44.750
And we raised what then was a lot of money. It was like $300,000 or $400,000 or something like that.

00:58:44.970 --> 00:58:49.690
And people were blown away by the work that I did. And now I've had days where

00:58:49.690 --> 00:58:50.690
I've raised millions of dollars now.

00:58:50.810 --> 00:58:53.030
So it's just such a weird whiplash when I think about it.

00:58:53.330 --> 00:58:57.150
And then just sort of parlayed that into getting a job at a consulting firm

00:58:57.150 --> 00:59:00.550
in the next election that wanted me to build out their digital fundraising apparatus.

00:59:00.810 --> 00:59:04.470
And I worked for my very first actual client was a woman named Elaine Marshall,

00:59:04.470 --> 00:59:07.350
who's still the Secretary of State in North Carolina.

00:59:07.710 --> 00:59:10.030
And she ran for Senate and we raised.

00:59:10.974 --> 00:59:14.294
Like one or two, 1.2 or $1.4 million or something like that,

00:59:14.374 --> 00:59:16.714
which was at the time the most money that had ever been raised for a Senate campaign.

00:59:16.974 --> 00:59:20.114
And it was just an incredible ride. And so I've just continued to kind of be

00:59:20.114 --> 00:59:23.454
one of the folks who've been trying to pioneer digital fundraising.

00:59:23.734 --> 00:59:26.554
And what's kind of sad about the industry to me is, you know,

00:59:26.654 --> 00:59:31.534
I run a firm, it's called Authentic, and we try to run programs that treat people

00:59:31.534 --> 00:59:35.334
with respect and, you know, sort of find the thing that

00:59:35.774 --> 00:59:38.354
makes our clients different and helps them resonate with people,

00:59:38.534 --> 00:59:41.514
whether it be like how they talk, what their personality traits are, what they care about.

00:59:42.174 --> 00:59:45.734
And we spend a lot of time trying to build programs that we can be proud of.

00:59:45.974 --> 00:59:48.654
And as everybody who's listening to this has seen, like digital fundraising

00:59:48.654 --> 00:59:52.554
in both parties and in the nonprofit space, completely out of control.

00:59:52.714 --> 00:59:55.974
And so there's a lot of people doing very shady things. There's a ton of scam

00:59:55.974 --> 00:59:58.914
packs that are out there trying to basically steal money from elderly people.

00:59:59.314 --> 01:00:04.194
And to me, it's super sad. But I'm kind of proud that I get to be part of an

01:00:04.194 --> 01:00:06.454
apparatus that raises a lot of money and helps to win a lot of,

01:00:06.494 --> 01:00:08.994
helps to win a lot of elections, but we do it the right way,

01:00:09.194 --> 01:00:10.534
in my opinion, at least more often than not.

01:00:11.474 --> 01:00:18.514
Yeah. So give me your, you, you kind of talked about Vice President Harris as

01:00:18.514 --> 01:00:24.314
a person, kind of give me your assessment about this last campaign.

01:00:24.634 --> 01:00:30.354
Yeah. I know you said that you weren't on the staff per se, but you were raising

01:00:30.354 --> 01:00:32.254
money for her and other folks.

01:00:33.074 --> 01:00:39.674
And you, you know, you've been in enough campaigns where you can kind of give a educated critique.

01:00:40.314 --> 01:00:43.734
What, what was, what's your assessment about what happened?

01:00:44.194 --> 01:00:47.014
Yeah. These are, these are the conversations that usually get me in trouble

01:00:47.014 --> 01:00:49.914
because I'm going to be really honest about what I think happened in this last

01:00:49.914 --> 01:00:52.554
election and why we lost the first thing.

01:00:52.634 --> 01:00:55.494
And to me, it's the, it's the original sin of this election.

01:00:55.654 --> 01:00:58.214
And it needs to be said, Joe Biden should never have run for reelection.

01:00:58.634 --> 01:01:02.374
He just should not have. And I think it was a strategic mistake by him and the

01:01:02.374 --> 01:01:04.394
people around him to pursue running for re-election.

01:01:04.994 --> 01:01:08.094
And I can't imagine how hard it is to walk away from being president of the United States.

01:01:08.494 --> 01:01:12.994
And I really do believe that Joe Biden was a good president and is an American

01:01:12.994 --> 01:01:15.194
patriot, but it was a strategic mistake.

01:01:15.594 --> 01:01:21.794
And because of that, we did not have a year, year and a half to fully vet and

01:01:21.794 --> 01:01:24.054
identify a nominee for that.

01:01:24.154 --> 01:01:26.774
And I believe that had we done that, Kamala Harris would have been the nominee,

01:01:26.974 --> 01:01:29.834
most likely, but we would have had a full field and there would have been an

01:01:29.834 --> 01:01:30.654
opportunity for growth.

01:01:30.794 --> 01:01:34.554
And a lot of Democratic strategists are afraid of primaries because you have

01:01:34.554 --> 01:01:36.494
to spend a bunch of money and you have to spend a bunch of time.

01:01:36.654 --> 01:01:41.214
But I think that primaries forge better candidates. And I think they give the

01:01:41.214 --> 01:01:43.634
people an opportunity to lift up a candidate that they want.

01:01:43.774 --> 01:01:46.214
And if you look at the two times we lost to Donald Trump.

01:01:46.983 --> 01:01:49.943
We didn't really have very serious full fields of candidates.

01:01:50.143 --> 01:01:53.723
We just didn't. The last time we really had one, obviously we had one in 2020,

01:01:53.723 --> 01:01:54.883
which elevated Joe Biden.

01:01:55.163 --> 01:01:58.763
And any critique of the 2020 presidential election, like Joe Biden won that primary.

01:01:58.943 --> 01:02:01.763
There's no, like Bernie Sanders lost it. I know a lot of people get frustrated

01:02:01.763 --> 01:02:03.783
with Bernie and I love Bernie. I worked for him in 16.

01:02:04.303 --> 01:02:08.243
But the last time we had like a full field one in the way we're going to have

01:02:08.243 --> 01:02:13.183
in two years was 2007, 2008, where we elevated Barack Obama and gave people

01:02:13.183 --> 01:02:14.683
like a full opportunity to do that.

01:02:14.683 --> 01:02:18.303
So we need to do that again, because I think when we don't do that and we do

01:02:18.303 --> 01:02:19.183
a disservice to the party,

01:02:19.343 --> 01:02:22.703
because not only do the candidates get better by going through that process,

01:02:22.823 --> 01:02:26.723
the campaigns get better and the operatives and the technology and the strategies

01:02:26.723 --> 01:02:31.363
that we use get better, too, because now you have 20 people out there with relatively

01:02:31.363 --> 01:02:33.263
large budgets going out there and innovating.

01:02:33.383 --> 01:02:36.343
And we didn't have that this last time. So there was a lot less innovation than

01:02:36.343 --> 01:02:39.603
you would expect, a lot less tech innovation in particular. And I think that's a mistake.

01:02:40.923 --> 01:02:44.283
Now, once you get to the moment that Joe Biden drops out and Kamala Harris has

01:02:44.283 --> 01:02:48.383
100 days to field an entire presidential election, I don't think it was a perfect

01:02:48.383 --> 01:02:51.463
campaign. And I think I see people out there that are like, it was perfect. It was flawless.

01:02:51.643 --> 01:02:54.903
It wasn't. There's no such thing as a perfect campaign, but it was it was pretty damn good.

01:02:55.383 --> 01:02:59.243
And if you looked at the at the polling information before Kamala became the

01:02:59.243 --> 01:03:01.283
nominee, we were on track to get killed.

01:03:02.017 --> 01:03:05.697
Especially after the debate. But even before that, we were in trouble and we

01:03:05.697 --> 01:03:08.277
were on track to lose states like New Mexico and New Jersey.

01:03:08.597 --> 01:03:13.197
New York was on a razor's edge because people were really upset about inflation

01:03:13.197 --> 01:03:16.097
and the border and some other issues that are lingering out there.

01:03:16.217 --> 01:03:19.157
And I think what the Harris campaign was able to do in a very short period of

01:03:19.157 --> 01:03:21.617
time was make the race incredibly competitive.

01:03:22.217 --> 01:03:26.157
And I'm a little bit tired of listening to Donald Trump, and he was tweeting

01:03:26.157 --> 01:03:29.577
about it today, saying he won in a landslide. He did not win in a landslide.

01:03:30.037 --> 01:03:33.557
180,000 people vote differently in three states and Kamala Harris is the nominee right now.

01:03:33.677 --> 01:03:37.957
We were actually shockingly close, in my opinion, to Kamala Harris winning the

01:03:37.957 --> 01:03:40.737
electoral college and losing the popular vote, which I think would have been

01:03:40.737 --> 01:03:44.877
very destabilizing for the country because the right would not have accepted that result.

01:03:45.637 --> 01:03:48.797
But it was really close. Now, he won all the battleground states,

01:03:48.917 --> 01:03:50.857
but also he lost all the battleground states four years ago.

01:03:51.037 --> 01:03:54.217
And nobody said that Joe Biden won in a landslide four years ago because it was also really close.

01:03:54.537 --> 01:03:58.177
So I just don't, I don't think they like fumble. I could sort of sit here and

01:03:58.177 --> 01:04:01.697
go, I would have done this differently with hindsight, or I could play Monday morning quarterback.

01:04:02.017 --> 01:04:05.757
Like for instance, one of the, one of the people that you hear say that,

01:04:05.757 --> 01:04:08.317
you know, Connell here should have gone on Joe Rogan. I do really believe that.

01:04:08.377 --> 01:04:09.177
I think she should have done that.

01:04:09.317 --> 01:04:12.937
I think they should have done more alternative media like that, but they didn't.

01:04:13.057 --> 01:04:14.817
I don't know that it would have made a difference, but again,

01:04:14.917 --> 01:04:17.757
it was close. So you don't know what would have made the difference or wouldn't

01:04:17.757 --> 01:04:19.717
have made the difference, but I thought it was a good campaign overall,

01:04:20.137 --> 01:04:20.837
given the circumstances.

01:04:21.637 --> 01:04:25.097
Yeah. Yeah, and that's my assessment, too. Given the time frame,

01:04:25.457 --> 01:04:30.337
she did a lot of stuff that nobody else could have done.

01:04:30.857 --> 01:04:36.557
I can't imagine anybody else raising a billion dollars in 100-some days to run

01:04:36.557 --> 01:04:37.677
for President of the United States.

01:04:38.417 --> 01:04:45.637
I mean, those are the kind of numbers that you do after 18 months of campaigning

01:04:45.637 --> 01:04:48.317
and working hard and building a base.

01:04:48.317 --> 01:04:52.297
And like you say, building a profile where people are comfortable in saying,

01:04:52.417 --> 01:04:55.517
OK, these are the two options that we have. Right.

01:04:56.597 --> 01:05:00.137
I do think that Biden. Sorry, go ahead, Eric.

01:05:00.377 --> 01:05:03.557
No, you were going to say what? I mean, I think it's I think it's possible we

01:05:03.557 --> 01:05:04.677
could have fielded another candidate.

01:05:04.837 --> 01:05:06.817
I don't know that the campaign would have been as strong, but it would have

01:05:06.817 --> 01:05:08.637
been riskier, I think, to do that.

01:05:08.857 --> 01:05:11.657
And I mean, it was worth having that conversation, you know,

01:05:11.737 --> 01:05:14.097
six months ago when it happened. But at this point, it's just sort of it's sort

01:05:14.097 --> 01:05:16.377
of over. But the actual original sin was the Joe.

01:05:16.797 --> 01:05:19.037
And again, God love him, just should not have run for reelection,

01:05:19.217 --> 01:05:21.317
just not in the state that he was in. And that's that's a mistake.

01:05:22.177 --> 01:05:26.297
Well, I mean, and that goes back to the old saying, pride comes before the fall, right?

01:05:26.457 --> 01:05:34.357
100%. Because he will go to his grave saying, I'm the only person that could

01:05:34.357 --> 01:05:37.657
have beat Donald Trump, and I'm the only person that beat Donald Trump.

01:05:37.837 --> 01:05:41.077
And so that was always in his mindset.

01:05:41.237 --> 01:05:45.737
And it's just somebody who has wanted to be president as long as he wanted to

01:05:45.737 --> 01:05:47.797
be, and he finally got it.

01:05:48.514 --> 01:05:53.574
It was kind of hard to shake that from him. And if it wasn't for that debate

01:05:53.574 --> 01:06:01.234
performance, which if I was the president, I would have canceled because he wasn't feeling well.

01:06:01.414 --> 01:06:04.894
He had just come back from a major diplomatic trip in Europe.

01:06:05.234 --> 01:06:07.414
He had every reason to say, you know what?

01:06:07.914 --> 01:06:12.934
Yeah, I'm not going to do it because I'm the incumbent. I don't have to debate you.

01:06:13.234 --> 01:06:16.594
Everybody knows who you are. Everybody knows who I am. And we just keep it moving.

01:06:16.594 --> 01:06:19.454
But he could have played that card and maybe.

01:06:20.194 --> 01:06:24.214
But then, like you said, you know, it would have been a I think it would have

01:06:24.214 --> 01:06:26.834
been a worse result, too, as far as the numbers go. Yeah.

01:06:27.234 --> 01:06:31.114
But anyway. But the reverse side of that, though, is that the fundamentals of

01:06:31.114 --> 01:06:34.314
the election were so negative against Democrats because inflation had been such

01:06:34.314 --> 01:06:35.754
a crisis for the last four years.

01:06:36.094 --> 01:06:38.894
We actually overperformed in the election that we should have,

01:06:38.994 --> 01:06:41.494
which is a testament to how bad of a candidate Donald Trump is.

01:06:41.494 --> 01:06:45.714
And I can't say this enough, like there are so many people that act like he

01:06:45.714 --> 01:06:51.554
has some mythical quality to being a candidate. But like, I'll tell you in this

01:06:51.554 --> 01:06:54.774
election and in 2016, we lost.

01:06:54.954 --> 01:06:58.194
He didn't win. And I feel pretty strongly about that. Like we made strategic

01:06:58.194 --> 01:07:02.254
decisions and we put up, you know, like, again, like I like Hillary Clinton

01:07:02.254 --> 01:07:04.154
and I respect her service to the American people. I don't think she was the

01:07:04.154 --> 01:07:05.014
right candidate for the moment.

01:07:05.194 --> 01:07:08.274
Candidate alignment matters a great deal in that. You know, Kamala,

01:07:08.414 --> 01:07:09.954
I think, was dealt a really shitty hand.

01:07:10.534 --> 01:07:14.234
But we made a lot of mistakes that let him go. But if they had nominated Nikki

01:07:14.234 --> 01:07:17.434
Haley in this election, she would have won 48 states. I'm convinced of that.

01:07:17.894 --> 01:07:22.294
Even against Kamala, I think it would have been just a wash because people are tired of the chaos.

01:07:22.634 --> 01:07:26.894
They want normal politicians, you know, but they were really mad at the Democrats over inflation.

01:07:27.114 --> 01:07:29.254
And I just think they would have washed over us. And so, like,

01:07:29.314 --> 01:07:31.134
they made a huge strategic error by nominating him again.

01:07:31.394 --> 01:07:33.574
And they're proving that now because they have no idea why they won.

01:07:33.894 --> 01:07:36.334
They've spent the last month in Washington doing a bunch of really weird,

01:07:36.434 --> 01:07:39.694
strange stuff that is turning the American people off and he's not doing anything

01:07:39.694 --> 01:07:42.934
about the central issue he was elected on which is lowering grocery prices and

01:07:42.934 --> 01:07:44.854
making housing more formal. So, yeah.

01:07:45.724 --> 01:07:50.524
Yeah. And, you know, I've I've been listening to some of the polls.

01:07:50.924 --> 01:07:55.984
Well, listen, reading some of the polls and it was like CBS did a poll about

01:07:55.984 --> 01:08:00.864
a couple of weeks ago and 70 percent of the people polled said,

01:08:01.044 --> 01:08:05.344
hey, well, he's he's pretty much doing what we thought he was going to do.

01:08:05.844 --> 01:08:12.044
And then I think I think we just did a poll and then 62 percent of people are

01:08:12.044 --> 01:08:15.764
like, yeah, he's not doing anything on the prices. We thought he was going to

01:08:15.764 --> 01:08:17.864
do something about the prices that he's not doing it.

01:08:18.044 --> 01:08:22.624
So the American people, I think, are really, really confused about what they're seeing.

01:08:22.944 --> 01:08:27.264
You know, you got Elon Musk at CPAC with the chainsaw. It's like,

01:08:28.064 --> 01:08:29.084
you know, what are we doing?

01:08:29.284 --> 01:08:34.264
And then Rich McCormick, I don't know if you saw that as we're recording this.

01:08:34.884 --> 01:08:41.144
Rich had, and he was, he's my congressman, unfortunately. But Rich had a town

01:08:41.144 --> 01:08:42.344
hall meeting in Roswell.

01:08:43.564 --> 01:08:48.504
And the people were not happy with what was going on and he won that,

01:08:48.504 --> 01:08:54.724
he got like, he won that decision with like 30 something points and he beat

01:08:54.724 --> 01:08:56.684
that man to death but it's like,

01:08:57.598 --> 01:09:01.718
You know, he was trying to say, well, you know, this is the way we do this and

01:09:01.718 --> 01:09:03.698
da, da, da, da. And the people were like, no, it's not.

01:09:03.798 --> 01:09:06.678
That's not how they work. You're supposed to be doing your job.

01:09:07.798 --> 01:09:11.558
He ain't supposed to be dealing with the money. You're supposed to be dealing with the money.

01:09:11.858 --> 01:09:15.158
And the one thing that, you know, people are saying, well, he shouldn't,

01:09:15.198 --> 01:09:22.318
you know, fire and all this stuff. It's like if Elon Musk was had his own was

01:09:22.318 --> 01:09:24.778
was in the private sector, right.

01:09:25.758 --> 01:09:28.018
You know, trying to do this.

01:09:29.598 --> 01:09:33.638
And, you know, he came in as a CEO instead of the owner of the company. Right.

01:09:33.958 --> 01:09:37.618
And he said, well, OK, we're going to cut. We're going to fire all these people.

01:09:37.818 --> 01:09:43.238
It's going to be like, but our budget says that we can afford to to have these people.

01:09:43.238 --> 01:09:49.678
And so if you don't have next year's budget, you don't want to have these positions,

01:09:49.838 --> 01:09:54.178
that's fine. But this year we budgeted these people in, so we need them.

01:09:54.338 --> 01:09:56.218
And nobody's having that discussion.

01:09:56.418 --> 01:10:00.978
It's like Congress said, this is what these agencies need to have.

01:10:01.218 --> 01:10:04.878
This is the money. These are the positions that we need to have.

01:10:04.878 --> 01:10:08.178
All the state legislatures, they are budget the same way.

01:10:08.318 --> 01:10:14.458
So it's like to fire people in the middle of or during a fiscal year,

01:10:14.458 --> 01:10:18.458
it's like you're not saving any money at that point.

01:10:18.638 --> 01:10:23.418
Well, technically you are, but it's like you've already set that money aside.

01:10:23.918 --> 01:10:29.538
So if you want to start saving for down the road, then you just eliminate those

01:10:29.538 --> 01:10:30.958
positions in the next budget.

01:10:30.958 --> 01:10:34.038
You don't fire people right now

01:10:34.038 --> 01:10:36.898
but right that you know nobody's really talking

01:10:36.898 --> 01:10:40.838
about like that and i guess being a former legislator that's that was kind of

01:10:40.838 --> 01:10:46.738
my mindset as to why isn't anybody's just saying that it's like we're we we've

01:10:46.738 --> 01:10:51.218
got the money to pay for these people this year now next year and the fiscal

01:10:51.218 --> 01:10:56.578
year is down the road let's have that debate but let's have it in congress not have elon musk with a.

01:10:57.481 --> 01:11:01.681
Chainsaw running up in buildings with a bunch of 25 year old tech bros saying,

01:11:01.681 --> 01:11:03.041
you know, y'all need to leave.

01:11:03.201 --> 01:11:07.881
I mean, well, Eric, look, look, you know, one, I think if you're if you're Donald

01:11:07.881 --> 01:11:11.441
Trump, you know, if you get elected to deal with grocery prices and housing

01:11:11.441 --> 01:11:15.321
prices and you spend the first month pardoning cop beaters and doing weird stuff

01:11:15.321 --> 01:11:17.801
with shady billionaires, people are going to get mad.

01:11:18.141 --> 01:11:21.501
And every day that we go that he isn't doing anything about it,

01:11:21.601 --> 01:11:26.861
people are going to get more pissed. And I think it's the same problem that the left had last year.

01:11:26.961 --> 01:11:30.741
Like we were not doing enough to deal with inflation to make people feel hurt.

01:11:30.781 --> 01:11:31.521
And he's not doing anything.

01:11:31.641 --> 01:11:34.181
We were at least trying, maybe not the right way, but we were trying.

01:11:34.561 --> 01:11:37.841
So that's a problem. But then let's, let's get into the government spending thing for a second.

01:11:37.861 --> 01:11:42.461
Like I actually agree broadly with the critique of the government that Donald

01:11:42.461 --> 01:11:46.201
Trump has, which is that it's too slow and it doesn't work and it's holding back progress.

01:11:46.301 --> 01:11:49.241
I agree with that. Now he doesn't say it that way. No, he says it in like horrible ways.

01:11:49.321 --> 01:11:52.361
Like the deep state is trying to kill me ways, but the fundamental critique

01:11:52.361 --> 01:11:56.701
is right. Most Americans don't believe the government works or functions, thinks it's too big.

01:11:56.801 --> 01:11:59.641
And I do think there's a lot of waste and fraud and abuse, but there's a right

01:11:59.641 --> 01:12:01.981
way to go about it. And there's a wrong way to go about it.

01:12:02.221 --> 01:12:04.981
The right way to do it would be to bring in professional auditors who know what

01:12:04.981 --> 01:12:07.941
they're doing, put a lot of sunlight on it and transparency for somebody in

01:12:07.941 --> 01:12:11.161
Congress to hold public hearings and for us to aggressively cut that money very,

01:12:11.241 --> 01:12:14.881
very quickly by shining a light on the way that the federal government is wasting your money.

01:12:15.061 --> 01:12:18.701
The wrong way to do it is letting an unelected South African billionaire and

01:12:18.701 --> 01:12:21.021
a bunch of weird tech kids come in and do it.

01:12:21.021 --> 01:12:24.241
And that's how you end up with things like Meals on Wheels getting cut or cancer

01:12:24.241 --> 01:12:28.561
research for kids getting cut or them accidentally firing all of the people

01:12:28.561 --> 01:12:33.301
who are responsible for protecting our nuclear arsenal and then having to panic and bring them back.

01:12:33.501 --> 01:12:37.381
So, like, it's almost like, like, look, if I had a tumor and I hired a surgeon.

01:12:37.741 --> 01:12:41.481
Like, I want the surgeon, I want an experienced surgeon to come in with a scalpel

01:12:41.481 --> 01:12:43.261
and take the tumor out and do it the right way.

01:12:43.381 --> 01:12:46.061
I don't want somebody with a chainsaw who doesn't know what they're doing.

01:12:46.161 --> 01:12:47.241
I start hacking away my organs.

01:12:47.461 --> 01:12:51.481
That's how people die. And when you do it, when you're a big businessman,

01:12:51.501 --> 01:12:55.181
when you're buying Twitter and you start rooting around and breaking shit,

01:12:55.321 --> 01:12:57.701
the worst thing you get is a bunch of customers who are mad.

01:12:57.961 --> 01:13:01.461
When you do it to the federal government, people die because people rely on

01:13:01.461 --> 01:13:02.761
the federal government to keep them safe.

01:13:02.821 --> 01:13:05.801
And we're having a lot of plane crashes and we're having people who are like

01:13:05.801 --> 01:13:09.081
not getting the cancer medications that they need because of the stuff that's going on right now.

01:13:09.321 --> 01:13:13.461
And it has consequences and he's treating it like like numbers and not people.

01:13:13.581 --> 01:13:14.461
And that's that's a mistake.

01:13:15.576 --> 01:13:20.116
So I want to double back on Kamala Harris just real quick.

01:13:20.296 --> 01:13:23.396
Do you think she's going to run for governor of California or you think she's

01:13:23.396 --> 01:13:28.036
going to chill out with Doug and say, thank you all for playing. I'm going to stay.

01:13:28.596 --> 01:13:31.716
I have no idea what she does. I hope she runs for governor of California because

01:13:31.716 --> 01:13:34.096
I think she'd be a great governor, but I don't know what she's going to do.

01:13:34.216 --> 01:13:37.976
And she has every right to kind of make the best choice for her and Doug and

01:13:37.976 --> 01:13:41.596
the rest of their family to decide, you know, am I going to continue with public service?

01:13:41.736 --> 01:13:44.376
Do I want to go make a little bit of money and enjoy my life?

01:13:44.376 --> 01:13:48.316
Like she served her country greatly, you know, her entire life since she was

01:13:48.316 --> 01:13:51.276
fresh out of college. She's been serving and it's really up to her.

01:13:51.536 --> 01:13:55.016
I think no matter what she does, even if she, you know, takes a step back or

01:13:55.016 --> 01:13:57.696
goes to a law firm or whatever she does, she will still be in the fight somewhere,

01:13:58.036 --> 01:13:59.016
improving people's lives.

01:13:59.096 --> 01:14:02.076
And you see that when she goes out, you know, she's been at a she's been shown

01:14:02.076 --> 01:14:04.376
a couple of concerts and I've seen her out at like a basketball game.

01:14:04.516 --> 01:14:07.636
Like she's still taking the time to talk to people and counsel them.

01:14:07.796 --> 01:14:11.416
And the one thing she's great at is she'll she's she'll pull people aside and

01:14:11.416 --> 01:14:14.396
like give them that little boost of energy that they need. So I'm certain that

01:14:14.396 --> 01:14:17.856
she's still engaged in the fight. It just might not look the same way that it did before.

01:14:18.076 --> 01:14:20.676
And the most powerful moments that I ever had with her were one-on-one,

01:14:20.816 --> 01:14:24.736
were at least in small group settings, where she pushed me to be a better strategist,

01:14:24.836 --> 01:14:26.776
pushed me to be a better business owner when I started my company.

01:14:26.956 --> 01:14:30.576
So she's going to keep doing stuff like that. She is somebody who makes everyone

01:14:30.576 --> 01:14:36.076
around them better. Yeah, yeah, I agree totally with that assessment altogether.

01:14:36.556 --> 01:14:42.416
So let me ask you this question. There was criticism that the campaign depended

01:14:42.416 --> 01:14:46.836
on the white consultant class too much and not enough on traditional black outreach.

01:14:47.616 --> 01:14:53.236
You being a consultant, how do you take that kind of criticism?

01:14:54.240 --> 01:14:57.960
I mean, it may be fair. It may not be fair, right? Like I wasn't engaged in

01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:02.800
it, but I tend to think the bigger divide that exists in the consultancy and

01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:05.000
the staffing world, which is a broader problem.

01:15:05.640 --> 01:15:08.600
Across the entirety of the Democratic Party and really our politics writ large,

01:15:08.780 --> 01:15:12.580
is age and class more than race beyond anything.

01:15:12.780 --> 01:15:19.220
I think we have way too many politicians and consultants and party elders that

01:15:19.220 --> 01:15:21.860
probably need to take a step back and give others the opportunity to lead.

01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:23.380
And I think we're starting to see that now.

01:15:23.700 --> 01:15:27.200
Tina Smith, who's the senator from Minnesota, she's one of my clients who's really proud of her.

01:15:27.280 --> 01:15:30.660
She's retiring at what's a pretty young age for a United States senator,

01:15:30.860 --> 01:15:32.000
still like well in her 60s.

01:15:32.120 --> 01:15:35.100
But like she could probably keep going for two more terms if she really wanted to.

01:15:35.220 --> 01:15:38.600
But she's retiring and giving the younger leaders in her state an opportunity

01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:42.640
to lead. And that's a good thing. And we need more of that in the Democratic Party.

01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:45.220
But it's wholesale generational change all the way on down.

01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:50.940
And then I think there's a class divide, right? Like there are a lot of very

01:15:50.940 --> 01:15:54.320
highly educated people that are working on these campaigns.

01:15:54.440 --> 01:15:56.640
And we don't have enough people that are coming from different backgrounds.

01:15:57.020 --> 01:15:59.800
And some of that will play into race for sure, no doubt about it.

01:15:59.880 --> 01:16:02.800
But like, I think I'm kind of an anomaly in the Democratic Party a little bit

01:16:02.800 --> 01:16:06.540
in the sense of like, I went to college in my first year, I dropped out and

01:16:06.540 --> 01:16:09.720
really I flunked out because I wasn't going to class, but I dropped out and

01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:10.700
I went to go work on campaigns.

01:16:10.780 --> 01:16:13.740
So I was not really educated in the same way that all the people around me were.

01:16:13.880 --> 01:16:17.820
And then I went back later in my thirties and in my late twenties and finished

01:16:17.820 --> 01:16:20.460
my, like my, my degree and then got a master's from Notre Dame.

01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:24.760
And so now I'm kind of educated, but I, I still think I mostly act like a non-educated

01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:26.920
person. I think I talk like a regular person.

01:16:27.160 --> 01:16:29.240
And I think a lot of the problem with the democratic party is like,

01:16:29.280 --> 01:16:30.500
we just don't talk like regular people.

01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:34.240
Like we're trying to keep a huge coalition of people happy and not use words

01:16:34.240 --> 01:16:37.480
that we're scared of and like be totally afraid to make a mistake. And.

01:16:38.316 --> 01:16:40.636
Whatever. Like I think people just need to bring their whole selves.

01:16:40.816 --> 01:16:44.776
And I talk a lot about like my company's name is authentic, but I think perceived

01:16:44.776 --> 01:16:46.936
authenticity is the number one way to win an election.

01:16:47.216 --> 01:16:51.156
And Donald Trump, I think is completely full of shit. But if he was a video

01:16:51.156 --> 01:16:54.616
game character, his perceived authenticity bar is the highest it could be.

01:16:54.716 --> 01:16:57.496
Like people believe they're getting the real Donald Trump.

01:16:57.756 --> 01:17:01.256
And I don't really think they are, but that perceived authenticity matters.

01:17:01.396 --> 01:17:03.536
And I think we need more of that at every level of the campaign.

01:17:03.736 --> 01:17:07.356
But when we're engaging with like specific communities, like we need people

01:17:07.356 --> 01:17:10.136
who understand those communities. Like I'm a white dude from Omaha.

01:17:10.356 --> 01:17:13.556
I'm probably not the best person to put together a campaign in like Harlem or

01:17:13.556 --> 01:17:15.516
Oakland or something like that. Right. And I recognize that.

01:17:15.736 --> 01:17:18.436
So part of it's like my responsibility is to build a team of people around me

01:17:18.436 --> 01:17:19.716
who can help see the things that I can.

01:17:19.876 --> 01:17:23.496
Like I wrote, I wrote or signed off on every fundraising email or social media

01:17:23.496 --> 01:17:26.356
post for Kamala Harris, who was the second black woman ever elected to the United

01:17:26.356 --> 01:17:28.996
States Senate in the history of the United States. Right.

01:17:29.396 --> 01:17:32.016
I didn't do that without a lot of help. And a lot of people that help me see

01:17:32.016 --> 01:17:35.196
the things that I couldn't see. And I think that's an important part of team

01:17:35.196 --> 01:17:36.516
building and campaign building.

01:17:37.496 --> 01:17:40.756
Do you think that's the key to help the Democrats rebound?

01:17:41.376 --> 01:17:48.736
Or is there more to, or is that just internal and there's some external things that the party has to do?

01:17:49.156 --> 01:17:52.236
I mean, we could spend all day talking about the things I think the Democrat Party needs to do.

01:17:52.516 --> 01:17:57.156
I mean, I have kind of boiled the problem down into like three major buckets.

01:17:57.156 --> 01:17:59.536
The first one I already talked about, which is the generational change that

01:17:59.536 --> 01:18:05.076
needs to happen in the party. The second one is stop treating people like statistics

01:18:05.076 --> 01:18:07.916
and start treating them like fully realized human beings.

01:18:08.096 --> 01:18:10.836
And I think some of that involves the like talking like regular people,

01:18:11.056 --> 01:18:14.596
bringing your whole self to the conversation, being able to go into these different spaces.

01:18:15.036 --> 01:18:16.776
And then there's just like a whole...

01:18:17.755 --> 01:18:20.555
Batch of like we're running we're running campaigns the

01:18:20.555 --> 01:18:23.535
same way that they've always been and we kind of have to change the way we're running campaigns

01:18:23.535 --> 01:18:26.915
we spend way too much money on tv ads we don't invest enough in digital we're

01:18:26.915 --> 01:18:30.535
we're running candidates that are i talk about candidate alignment a lot i probably

01:18:30.535 --> 01:18:33.075
already mentioned it a few times but candidate alignment to me is when when

01:18:33.075 --> 01:18:37.895
you are the right candidate for the moment because you conform to the way that

01:18:37.895 --> 01:18:40.655
people are communicating in the media and like the best example this is barack

01:18:40.655 --> 01:18:44.155
obama barack obama 2008 is the most aligned candidate i've ever seen in my life

01:18:44.155 --> 01:18:45.815
jfk is probably like the other example,

01:18:45.975 --> 01:18:48.615
JFK was perfectly aligned for TV as TV rose.

01:18:49.155 --> 01:18:53.255
And Nixon, who by all means, Nixon probably on paper would have been a better

01:18:53.255 --> 01:18:58.995
president than Kennedy in 1960, but he was terrible on TV and got killed because

01:18:58.995 --> 01:19:01.735
he didn't play the part the way you needed him to.

01:19:01.935 --> 01:19:04.395
And maybe to a certain degree, that was part of the problem with Hillary Clinton

01:19:04.395 --> 01:19:07.215
and Donald Trump, which is Trump understood how to manipulate the media.

01:19:07.555 --> 01:19:11.075
And maybe in this last election, J.D. Vance helped Trump understand how to manipulate

01:19:11.075 --> 01:19:15.015
the alternative podcast media. And so we need to do a better job of creating that alignment.

01:19:15.255 --> 01:19:18.355
And that starts with like, again, generational change so that people actually

01:19:18.355 --> 01:19:21.335
like, I shouldn't have to be explained how TikTok works to a political candidate anymore.

01:19:21.435 --> 01:19:23.115
They should have their own TikTok and they should understand it.

01:19:23.215 --> 01:19:25.835
Then we got to talk like regular people and stop trying to please everybody.

01:19:25.955 --> 01:19:27.935
And then we have to modernize the way we run our campaigns.

01:19:29.095 --> 01:19:35.695
Yeah. All right. So this is my final question is kind of going back to how you

01:19:35.695 --> 01:19:38.235
responded to the original quote I gave you.

01:19:38.855 --> 01:19:42.915
During the campaign, you responded to personal attacks on social media.

01:19:43.753 --> 01:19:48.033
You said being a man isn't about looking like a roided out buff freak.

01:19:48.253 --> 01:19:53.153
It's about being real with yourself and others, leading with empathy and heart

01:19:53.153 --> 01:19:55.713
and facing challenges head on with vulnerability.

01:19:56.193 --> 01:20:02.733
We need more empathetic conversations as we're losing too many young people

01:20:02.733 --> 01:20:07.533
to drug addiction, abuse and suicidal ideation.

01:20:07.533 --> 01:20:10.813
Kind of kind of talk about about that

01:20:10.813 --> 01:20:14.413
because as you stated before you you

01:20:14.413 --> 01:20:17.173
were a big guy and you know if i

01:20:17.173 --> 01:20:21.113
had played football i would have loved to have you blocking for me then i would

01:20:21.113 --> 01:20:25.653
i'd have a lot more money and been doing something else but in all seriousness

01:20:25.653 --> 01:20:30.293
though you you this is a personal challenge you've had to deal with and in this

01:20:30.293 --> 01:20:34.313
environment of social media where everybody can hide behind their phone or their

01:20:34.313 --> 01:20:37.053
computer and just spew out stuff.

01:20:37.313 --> 01:20:44.353
To date myself, the way you did that on the internet was you said you were anonymous, right?

01:20:44.513 --> 01:20:53.473
And I used to get more comments as anonymous against me from anonymous than actual real people.

01:20:54.073 --> 01:20:58.633
But now social media has evolved where people feel they have this kind of courage.

01:21:00.013 --> 01:21:03.893
And I really appreciated the way that you addressed that. So just kind of talk

01:21:03.893 --> 01:21:07.773
to the audience about why you felt motivated to just say, you know what,

01:21:07.933 --> 01:21:11.913
let me just put y'all in y'all place and tell you how I really feel.

01:21:12.393 --> 01:21:15.813
Well, you know, I spent a lot of time thinking about this because it's something

01:21:15.813 --> 01:21:20.713
that's really important to me because I think there's an epidemic of loneliness

01:21:20.713 --> 01:21:24.913
in American society. There's an epidemic of drug use and suicidal ideation.

01:21:24.993 --> 01:21:28.393
And I think it permeates every part of American culture, but young men in particular

01:21:28.393 --> 01:21:30.113
are hit really, really hard.

01:21:30.293 --> 01:21:34.593
And I might get the statistic a little bit wrong, but young men are four times,

01:21:34.733 --> 01:21:37.333
young white men, I think in particular, are four times more likely to commit

01:21:37.333 --> 01:21:39.373
suicide than any other group of people in the United States.

01:21:40.306 --> 01:21:42.406
And I don't hear anybody talking about that. Donald Trump's not talking about

01:21:42.406 --> 01:21:43.786
it. Conal Harris wasn't talking about it.

01:21:43.846 --> 01:21:47.286
And that's a huge mistake because there are a lot of white men in this country

01:21:47.286 --> 01:21:49.406
and, you know, they're not voting the way that I want them to,

01:21:49.486 --> 01:21:52.206
but they're, they're still my brothers and I want them to be mentally well.

01:21:52.346 --> 01:21:57.506
And unfortunately, we have a lot of really poor role models in the country.

01:21:57.706 --> 01:22:00.446
And, and like, you know, yesterday as we're recording this, you know,

01:22:00.646 --> 01:22:03.606
Elon Musk is wielding a chainsaw and like throwing it around his head and looking

01:22:03.606 --> 01:22:04.566
like an absolute doofus.

01:22:04.686 --> 01:22:10.086
And like, that is not what, what real men are. And I think we were in this transition

01:22:10.086 --> 01:22:13.786
period where, you know, we haven't made enough progress for women,

01:22:13.806 --> 01:22:16.826
for sure, and neither for, you know, black or round people either.

01:22:17.426 --> 01:22:21.626
But this transitionary period is hard on, you know, I think white men in particular,

01:22:21.686 --> 01:22:23.946
but all men, I think more than anything, because we're struggling to figure

01:22:23.946 --> 01:22:25.486
out what masculinity actually looks like.

01:22:25.486 --> 01:22:29.286
And so you have a lot of people that are clinging to, you know,

01:22:29.386 --> 01:22:33.446
to me, like boring wrote, you know, traditional 1950s masculinity.

01:22:33.646 --> 01:22:36.006
Let me be a tough guy. Let me be a bully. And like that, that's ridiculous.

01:22:36.186 --> 01:22:39.946
Like to me, like real men protect and provide.

01:22:40.346 --> 01:22:43.286
That's what they do. We protect the people in our lives. We provide for them.

01:22:43.386 --> 01:22:46.266
We do what we need to do. And that's the kind of thing where like I say that

01:22:46.266 --> 01:22:47.706
sometimes in more liberal circles and

01:22:47.706 --> 01:22:50.386
people get uneasy because you're not supposed to kind of talk that way.

01:22:50.486 --> 01:22:54.506
But like, I do feel that like I have a responsibility to protect my wife and

01:22:54.506 --> 01:22:58.106
my son. I have a responsibility to provide for them. And I think more men need to say that.

01:22:58.326 --> 01:23:02.846
And part of the reason that we have so many young men that have absolutely nothing

01:23:02.846 --> 01:23:04.686
to provide a significant other

01:23:04.686 --> 01:23:06.886
is because they don't know that they're supposed to provide for another.

01:23:07.484 --> 01:23:09.104
Because they didn't have anybody in their life who showed them that,

01:23:09.424 --> 01:23:11.384
because they didn't have anybody in their life who taught them that,

01:23:11.504 --> 01:23:15.524
or because they have a role model like Elon Musk, who has 13 kids with eight

01:23:15.524 --> 01:23:19.624
different women, women who are actively tweeting at him to try to get him to

01:23:19.624 --> 01:23:21.124
engage in the life of their kids.

01:23:21.624 --> 01:23:24.804
And this is what I'm supposed to believe modern masculinity looks like.

01:23:25.384 --> 01:23:29.644
It's not. And I don't want the future of masculinity to be defined by guys like

01:23:29.644 --> 01:23:30.984
Donald Trump and Elon Musk and J.D.

01:23:31.044 --> 01:23:34.804
Vance, who have no respect for women, who have no respect for themselves who

01:23:34.804 --> 01:23:37.964
have no respect for just common decency and empathy in life.

01:23:38.104 --> 01:23:41.044
And so I think more men need to step up and talk about their,

01:23:41.044 --> 01:23:42.944
their, their challenges and the things they're going through.

01:23:43.064 --> 01:23:46.904
It's why I'm, I'm pretty honest about, like, I, I almost hurt myself pretty

01:23:46.904 --> 01:23:48.344
seriously in the middle of 2020.

01:23:48.564 --> 01:23:51.104
It's why I talk about my weight loss, having lost over 200 pounds.

01:23:51.244 --> 01:23:54.184
That's why I talk about my anxiety and depression. It's why I talk about my

01:23:54.184 --> 01:23:55.104
struggles of being a parent.

01:23:55.244 --> 01:23:58.184
Like I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, being a parent is impossible.

01:23:58.384 --> 01:24:01.984
I have a little five-year-old boy. He is he is like a little me clone.

01:24:02.184 --> 01:24:05.684
And I'm like, I'm up against the ropes every day trying to trying to deal with him.

01:24:06.164 --> 01:24:09.464
And we need more men. We're going to talk like that. And I think we need men

01:24:09.464 --> 01:24:13.564
to support one another because we're so afraid of saying how we feel about one

01:24:13.564 --> 01:24:14.944
another and how we feel to each other.

01:24:15.144 --> 01:24:19.844
And, you know, I think it can be done. And I think every time somebody shares

01:24:19.844 --> 01:24:22.704
a little bit more about themselves, the world becomes a little bit more of an interesting place.

01:24:22.824 --> 01:24:25.444
And we don't have to let Andrew Tate define the future. We don't have to let

01:24:25.444 --> 01:24:27.624
Elon Musk define the future because, like, screw these guys.

01:24:27.644 --> 01:24:28.824
Like, they're loose. They're losers.

01:24:29.564 --> 01:24:33.484
They're, they're losers and I'm not going to, I'm not going to sealed my,

01:24:33.564 --> 01:24:34.824
I'm not going to seal my space to it.

01:24:34.864 --> 01:24:37.044
I'm going to do the best I can to raise my son. And I'm going to be the best

01:24:37.044 --> 01:24:38.384
I can to be an example to other people.

01:24:38.584 --> 01:24:42.124
And I'm not perfect. I make a ton of mistakes. I'm a huge flood individuals.

01:24:42.304 --> 01:24:44.964
We all are, but I don't know. I'm not, I'm not seeding this fight to them.

01:24:45.064 --> 01:24:45.944
Like, like screw these guys.

01:24:46.704 --> 01:24:49.064
Yeah. Well, I'm trying, I'm trying not to drop an F bomb, Eric.

01:24:49.224 --> 01:24:50.064
I'm coming close though.

01:24:50.524 --> 01:24:54.804
But you, but you did good. You did good. So look, and I'm just here to tell

01:24:54.804 --> 01:24:57.024
you, it's like, If you think five is amazing.

01:24:57.978 --> 01:25:01.418
10 years from now when your mini me is 15 oh

01:25:01.418 --> 01:25:04.218
baby yeah i'm terrified of

01:25:04.218 --> 01:25:06.978
having a teenager i'm completely terrified of it i want nothing

01:25:06.978 --> 01:25:09.918
to do with it but you know boy

01:25:09.918 --> 01:25:12.658
i mean i'm a little biased you know because i'm

01:25:12.658 --> 01:25:15.718
a i'm a boy dad but you know a father

01:25:15.718 --> 01:25:18.758
a father of a son is a

01:25:18.758 --> 01:25:22.058
lot easier than being a father of a daughter i didn't just you

01:25:22.058 --> 01:25:24.978
know i'm just letting you know so just be grateful

01:25:24.978 --> 01:25:27.858
and you know that

01:25:27.858 --> 01:25:32.098
it's gonna be okay i'll just i'll give you one more example if i if i still

01:25:32.098 --> 01:25:36.278
have time to kind of get he's like you know my son right now like he's a he's

01:25:36.278 --> 01:25:39.698
a young overactive five-year-old boy with it with a with a big brain and and

01:25:39.698 --> 01:25:43.878
a lot to say and when he goes to school right now he's probably the most disruptive

01:25:43.878 --> 01:25:45.338
member of his class because he's,

01:25:45.878 --> 01:25:49.078
really smart and because he's born and he probably has a little bit of adhd

01:25:49.078 --> 01:25:52.258
like his father and he's struggling to keep his hands to himself and like a

01:25:52.258 --> 01:25:54.718
lot of the stuff that he's going through are just like normal things that men

01:25:54.718 --> 01:25:55.778
go through when they're like young.

01:25:56.358 --> 01:26:00.738
And we're trying to create a society where, you know, like girls and women have

01:26:00.738 --> 01:26:01.918
the same opportunities as everyone else.

01:26:01.998 --> 01:26:03.638
And that's the right thing to do. We should keep doing that.

01:26:03.698 --> 01:26:07.098
But we also have to create space for, and I hate to say it like this, but men to be met.

01:26:07.298 --> 01:26:10.498
Right. And it doesn't, I'm not saying it let boys be boys in the like locker

01:26:10.498 --> 01:26:12.698
room way, but like they're different.

01:26:12.898 --> 01:26:15.158
Like little boys and little girls are different and everybody individually is

01:26:15.158 --> 01:26:16.958
different. And we have to give them lanes to kind of be that.

01:26:17.058 --> 01:26:18.958
And so I'm trying to like work with my son to be like, Like,

01:26:19.058 --> 01:26:23.918
how do I get you to keep people safe and tell the truth without squashing that

01:26:23.918 --> 01:26:26.598
creative side and making him feel comfortable in his own shoes?

01:26:26.598 --> 01:26:30.758
Because I saw this quote recently, and it's the loudest kid in the room is the

01:26:30.758 --> 01:26:32.958
kid that's the most comfortable in their own shoes.

01:26:33.861 --> 01:26:37.441
And the way society is set up right now, it's kind of designed to make you be quiet.

01:26:38.041 --> 01:26:40.881
And I think that's a lot of how you get anxiety and depression.

01:26:40.881 --> 01:26:42.441
And it just layers over time.

01:26:42.581 --> 01:26:45.681
Like any negative thought that's ever been put in my head was put in there by

01:26:45.681 --> 01:26:47.961
somebody else. I didn't have that when I was born.

01:26:48.261 --> 01:26:51.441
Somebody else put that in there. And then it's my responsibility to unwind it.

01:26:51.681 --> 01:26:55.241
But my responsibility right now is to help my son get through that while also

01:26:55.241 --> 01:26:57.401
keeping everybody else safe at school because he's like, you know,

01:26:57.761 --> 01:27:00.181
throwing crayons when he gets frustrated and he loses a game of school.

01:27:00.441 --> 01:27:02.361
So which is like normal kid shit. So.

01:27:02.941 --> 01:27:08.021
Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, we'll have to compare notes and hopefully I can give

01:27:08.021 --> 01:27:11.561
you some pointers down the road. But look. We'll write a parent book together, Eric.

01:27:14.761 --> 01:27:16.521
So, Mike, tell folks, what are

01:27:16.521 --> 01:27:20.121
you doing? How can people get in touch with you and all that good stuff?

01:27:20.441 --> 01:27:24.241
Yeah, so you can find me on most major social media platforms,

01:27:24.241 --> 01:27:28.481
but I'm most active on Blue Sky and I cross post on X. So if you're still on

01:27:28.481 --> 01:27:30.181
X, you can find me. I'm on TikTok as well.

01:27:30.281 --> 01:27:34.181
You just search Mike Nellis, N-E-L-L-I-S. I'm super easy to find. I'm also on LinkedIn.

01:27:34.501 --> 01:27:37.441
I post a lot on LinkedIn, usually longer form thoughts on LinkedIn.

01:27:37.561 --> 01:27:40.741
If you are interested in working with me, if you're a congressional candidate

01:27:40.741 --> 01:27:43.841
out there, I tend to work with federal or statewide candidates more than anybody,

01:27:43.981 --> 01:27:44.961
but I'll talk to anybody.

01:27:45.281 --> 01:27:48.861
My website is Authentic.org. You can just find me. I'm super, super easy to find.

01:27:49.441 --> 01:27:53.101
Well, Mike Nellis, it's been an honor and a privilege to talk to you, my man.

01:27:53.501 --> 01:27:56.821
Good luck on the political side. Good luck on the parenting side.

01:27:57.021 --> 01:28:00.781
And you have an open invitation to come back anytime you want to,

01:28:00.901 --> 01:28:03.701
my friend. Thank you so much for this. Thank you, Eric. This was great.

01:28:04.421 --> 01:28:06.281
All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:28:07.440 --> 01:28:17.360
Music.

01:28:17.985 --> 01:28:30.205
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Mark Talley and Mike Nellis for being on the show.

01:28:31.245 --> 01:28:37.185
I greatly appreciate them taking the time out of their schedules to come on.

01:28:37.385 --> 01:28:47.685
And I'm looking forward to watching them continue to ascend and continue to

01:28:47.685 --> 01:28:56.825
triumph and continue to be true American success stories in their own right.

01:28:58.905 --> 01:29:07.245
And again, you know, this vehicle gives me an opportunity to meet some really, really cool people.

01:29:08.865 --> 01:29:13.565
And even if I just admired them from afar, to reach out to them,

01:29:13.765 --> 01:29:20.905
to have the conversations with them on and off the air is really, really special.

01:29:21.385 --> 01:29:24.825
And it's a blessing to me to get to know them.

01:29:26.125 --> 01:29:30.165
And I always tell people that this podcast is therapy for me,

01:29:31.045 --> 01:29:37.105
not just in the fact that it allows me to vent and allows me to express myself,

01:29:37.865 --> 01:29:40.625
but it gives me hope, right?

01:29:41.445 --> 01:29:43.445
Because as you meet people.

01:29:45.510 --> 01:29:52.030
You know, and you get to know people and know what they're doing and the stories behind it.

01:29:52.930 --> 01:29:57.130
It just gives me hope that we're going to be okay despite the foolishness that

01:29:57.130 --> 01:30:00.750
we're watching, right, that we're being engaged in.

01:30:01.390 --> 01:30:05.990
So, you know, I just wanted to say that.

01:30:07.830 --> 01:30:13.090
But before I go, I do want people to understand that this is foolishness that

01:30:13.090 --> 01:30:14.750
we are dealing with, right?

01:30:16.210 --> 01:30:22.070
You know, but the amazing thing is, is that the majority of us are going to

01:30:22.070 --> 01:30:25.770
live our lives and try to live them the best way possible.

01:30:26.430 --> 01:30:32.030
And usually when government is doing good, it means that they're not trying

01:30:32.030 --> 01:30:34.950
to do anything to mess that up. Right.

01:30:35.910 --> 01:30:39.850
Yeah, there's going to be debates about which direction the country should go

01:30:39.850 --> 01:30:44.530
and what policies we should embrace and all that stuff. And we're supposed to

01:30:44.530 --> 01:30:46.570
be engaged enough to understand what's happening.

01:30:46.990 --> 01:30:52.550
But we don't want government to totally alter our lives, right?

01:30:53.270 --> 01:30:59.710
We want to be able to go to a movie, smoke a cigar, have a drink,

01:31:00.170 --> 01:31:06.370
go on a date, go to dinner, go to an amusement park, go to a national park.

01:31:06.690 --> 01:31:08.170
Just do whatever you want to do.

01:31:09.770 --> 01:31:16.770
And, you know, we shouldn't have to worry about, is this going to exist?

01:31:17.130 --> 01:31:19.170
Am I going to be able to afford it?

01:31:20.990 --> 01:31:29.310
Will I be allowed to read certain books or watch certain movies or listen to certain music?

01:31:30.230 --> 01:31:34.670
When government is doing the right thing, especially the U.S.

01:31:34.810 --> 01:31:38.530
Government, we tend to not have those kind of questions.

01:31:39.530 --> 01:31:42.350
Sometimes we do it in spite of that.

01:31:43.809 --> 01:31:49.049
As we're in Black History Month, I'm just, and I may have said this last episode,

01:31:49.349 --> 01:31:54.709
I'm just reminded of how we found our way around governments,

01:31:55.649 --> 01:31:58.409
state governments trying to oppress us, right?

01:31:58.629 --> 01:32:02.209
And even a federal government to an extent, a big extent.

01:32:02.429 --> 01:32:06.949
But we found our way around that, right?

01:32:06.949 --> 01:32:11.189
And then we were able to fix government

01:32:11.189 --> 01:32:19.689
enough where some of those restrictions were wiped away and we could have more

01:32:19.689 --> 01:32:28.929
fun and we could have more joy and we could live fuller lives with greater opportunities. Right.

01:32:29.449 --> 01:32:36.469
And it opened the door for other groups in this country to enjoy those same benefits.

01:32:38.569 --> 01:32:45.589
But there are people who don't want that for everybody.

01:32:45.589 --> 01:32:51.169
They just want it for a select few and they will tear everything down rather

01:32:51.169 --> 01:32:56.969
than accept the fact that everybody's entitled to the same rights they have.

01:32:57.469 --> 01:33:01.629
And I'm listening to people who are being laid off for their jobs.

01:33:01.629 --> 01:33:08.489
And, you know, it's like, it's almost like there's a disconnect between what

01:33:08.489 --> 01:33:16.829
folks are trying to do with their agenda and their reality show mentality and

01:33:16.829 --> 01:33:18.509
the real impact that it's having.

01:33:18.869 --> 01:33:26.569
Right? Because when you tell nearly 7,000 IRS employees you don't have a job anymore.

01:33:28.849 --> 01:33:33.389
Well, that's nearly 7,000 people that, one, have to find another job.

01:33:33.549 --> 01:33:37.449
Two, they've got to figure out a way to pay bills until they find a job.

01:33:37.609 --> 01:33:40.829
I mean, just all sorts of stuff, right?

01:33:41.829 --> 01:33:50.969
And the one thing that these folks playing this game with Doge or Doggie or

01:33:50.969 --> 01:33:52.589
however you're supposed to pronounce it,

01:33:53.769 --> 01:33:58.949
you're creating an incredible burden on all of these states.

01:34:00.400 --> 01:34:08.360
What do you mean, Eric? An incredible burden. So if you have ever had the misfortune

01:34:08.360 --> 01:34:11.700
of being laid off of a job, right.

01:34:13.400 --> 01:34:20.080
You go to your state unemployment office and try to get some money to carry

01:34:20.080 --> 01:34:22.200
you over until you get another job.

01:34:22.360 --> 01:34:26.960
Now, most of those agencies want you to be applying for jobs while you're getting the money.

01:34:28.620 --> 01:34:35.440
And it's only for time certain, but it's designed, that's what the unemployment

01:34:35.440 --> 01:34:41.640
insurance is there for, that your company pays into, your former company in the case.

01:34:42.140 --> 01:34:47.800
They pay into that to make sure that, you know, you've got money to take care

01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:54.500
of what you need, food, shelter, utilities, transportation.

01:34:55.300 --> 01:34:58.340
So until you get another job, right?

01:34:59.440 --> 01:35:06.460
So, you know, and if you're terminated, you usually don't qualify for unemployment, right?

01:35:07.860 --> 01:35:17.320
Well, in this case, in probably all of the states, people that are being laid

01:35:17.320 --> 01:35:20.740
off of the federal government are going to qualify for unemployment.

01:35:21.440 --> 01:35:28.220
So now the money that you say that you or you think that you're saving, right,

01:35:28.920 --> 01:35:34.660
by letting these people go, if these folks reach out for unemployment,

01:35:35.080 --> 01:35:37.640
that money is going to be spent again.

01:35:38.260 --> 01:35:40.180
But instead of that money being

01:35:40.180 --> 01:35:43.660
directly paid to them, it has to go to the states where they live in.

01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:49.360
And then that state's going to have to compensate them until they can find another

01:35:49.360 --> 01:35:53.800
job or until their time of getting benefits runs up.

01:35:54.700 --> 01:35:59.260
Right. That could be one month, two months and three months.

01:35:59.380 --> 01:36:04.460
All depends on how the state operates or somewhere in between that time period. Right.

01:36:06.280 --> 01:36:12.240
So now instead of it just being a federal payroll, now it's like each state

01:36:12.240 --> 01:36:19.260
is going to have to cover that until the federal government reimburses them. Right.

01:36:19.980 --> 01:36:23.600
Because federal employees qualify for unemployment if they are laid off.

01:36:24.904 --> 01:36:32.684
Are. So, you know, nobody's talking about that, right?

01:36:33.824 --> 01:36:40.804
You know, so that's just, again, that's why there's a process in how we do things.

01:36:41.784 --> 01:36:51.984
And, you know, I just look at Elon Musk and Donald Trump is like those guys, you know,

01:36:52.364 --> 01:37:00.704
where, you know, you're growing up a black person and it seems like I've mentioned

01:37:00.704 --> 01:37:04.064
this before, but I'm putting it in a different context now.

01:37:04.244 --> 01:37:06.844
So it's like, you know, those black kids that grow up and you say,

01:37:07.084 --> 01:37:12.024
man, if I was if I was back in the day of slavery, I wouldn't have been a slave.

01:37:12.024 --> 01:37:16.184
I would have done, you know, this or that or whatever, you know,

01:37:16.304 --> 01:37:23.224
or I wish I was grown and then I would do this, that and all that.

01:37:23.344 --> 01:37:27.244
You know, I wouldn't treat my kids where my parents treat me.

01:37:27.604 --> 01:37:36.304
You know, everybody has their fantasy of being in a spot and doing something different.

01:37:39.004 --> 01:37:46.184
So these guys, especially Elon, it's like, if I had my hands on that federal

01:37:46.184 --> 01:37:52.744
budget, I would just, you know, we just got too big of a government.

01:37:52.844 --> 01:37:55.984
We'll just cut all these jobs. Just get rid of all these people.

01:37:56.404 --> 01:38:00.664
Just fire them like I would do at X or at Tesla or whatever. Right?

01:38:01.499 --> 01:38:04.659
Okay. But there's a budget, right?

01:38:05.359 --> 01:38:12.499
If for some reason you budgeted the money, then that means that the money is there.

01:38:12.659 --> 01:38:16.939
And you kind of heard me fumble through that with my interview with Mr.

01:38:16.979 --> 01:38:24.359
Nellis, but I'm like, you got the money to let these people finish out that

01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:28.559
year. And then And if you don't think you're going to have the revenue the next

01:38:28.559 --> 01:38:31.839
year, then you make the cut.

01:38:32.459 --> 01:38:38.979
But that will give people time to know, hey, you know, I'm possibly going to be laid off.

01:38:39.719 --> 01:38:42.319
You know, or terminated.

01:38:43.419 --> 01:38:46.499
So I got time to look for stuff. Right.

01:38:47.459 --> 01:38:55.679
But to just show up one day and then have your polo shirt security guards with

01:38:55.679 --> 01:38:57.919
the band-aid, the flower band-aids on their neck,

01:38:58.199 --> 01:39:05.599
telling folks they can't come in because we're doing some maintenance work or

01:39:05.599 --> 01:39:07.039
whatever you call yourself doing.

01:39:08.139 --> 01:39:14.539
And then summarily just firing people without even having a concept of what these people do.

01:39:15.059 --> 01:39:20.459
Right? You can even walk through and just see all of the departments,

01:39:21.339 --> 01:39:25.959
physically look at these people and see, well, what do they do and why do we

01:39:25.959 --> 01:39:29.299
need this and all that stuff, then come back.

01:39:30.659 --> 01:39:36.279
Because the way it was sold, again, was that there was going to be a review

01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:40.539
by this Department of Government Efficiency.

01:39:41.279 --> 01:39:48.779
And then on the 4th of July in 2026, they were going to make a report with recommendations.

01:39:48.979 --> 01:39:52.359
This is where we need to cut the government. Right.

01:39:53.039 --> 01:39:56.199
That was what was sold to the American people.

01:39:57.656 --> 01:40:02.836
There was nothing in the conversation about Elon Musk grabbing 25 people from

01:40:02.836 --> 01:40:07.636
his different companies, I guess his all-star team or wherever it is,

01:40:07.856 --> 01:40:14.876
and basically walking in offices, asking for access to computers, and kicking people out.

01:40:15.696 --> 01:40:21.756
Nothing in that conversation at all. That was not what was conveyed to the voters.

01:40:23.356 --> 01:40:26.616
So, you know, but that's okay.

01:40:26.616 --> 01:40:35.996
In a sense, because it proves what always happens with folks with this mindset,

01:40:36.456 --> 01:40:38.636
that they overplay their hand.

01:40:38.776 --> 01:40:44.176
They always overplay their hand. Always.

01:40:44.796 --> 01:40:52.056
Because that lust for power, that lust for supremacy, that lust for total domination

01:40:52.056 --> 01:40:55.316
and control wipes out all reason.

01:40:56.276 --> 01:40:59.516
Wipes out all logic. Wipes out all discipline.

01:41:00.316 --> 01:41:07.716
And they overplay their hand. And the American people reward them by booting them out. It's a reboot.

01:41:08.136 --> 01:41:14.156
Every time they get to that point, the American electorate hits reset.

01:41:14.876 --> 01:41:17.936
And they're not the party in control anymore.

01:41:19.432 --> 01:41:23.192
They haven't learned their lesson yet. And I don't think they ever will.

01:41:23.872 --> 01:41:25.912
Maybe generations down the road,

01:41:26.212 --> 01:41:31.932
but when you have a certain mindset like that, you just act that way.

01:41:33.232 --> 01:41:38.732
And we try to tell people, don't ever give them the chance, no matter how slick

01:41:38.732 --> 01:41:40.192
they repackage themselves.

01:41:40.672 --> 01:41:43.932
Don't ever give them the chance to come back. But yet we do.

01:41:44.732 --> 01:41:47.672
And then we have to hit reset. Right.

01:41:48.772 --> 01:41:55.292
So, you know, I hope that you all pay attention to what's going on,

01:41:55.692 --> 01:41:58.292
even if it doesn't impact you directly.

01:41:59.812 --> 01:42:03.552
I want you to pay attention and I want you to act accordingly.

01:42:04.212 --> 01:42:05.832
I want you to get involved.

01:42:06.892 --> 01:42:10.972
I want you to engage with these elected officials like people are doing at these

01:42:10.972 --> 01:42:17.552
town hall meetings that congressmen, some congressmen and congresswomen are bravely having.

01:42:18.872 --> 01:42:23.952
And let people know. Elon Musk was not on the ballot.

01:42:24.472 --> 01:42:29.432
But you were. And we voted for you. So we need you to do your job.

01:42:29.912 --> 01:42:31.632
We need you to tell the president.

01:42:32.352 --> 01:42:38.032
Put Elon back in his leash. He's had his fun. We greatly appreciate his participation,

01:42:38.032 --> 01:42:39.832
but now it's time to govern.

01:42:40.932 --> 01:42:46.732
When it comes to the budget, comes the money, we, the U.S. Congress, that's our job.

01:42:47.252 --> 01:42:52.952
We appreciate any suggestions he might want to make, but we're not taking any action.

01:42:53.192 --> 01:43:00.152
Now, if we ask the president, hey, we need you to lay off these people because

01:43:00.152 --> 01:43:03.652
we don't have the money to keep the budget that you've asked for.

01:43:04.232 --> 01:43:11.312
We expect you to act that way but if we budgeted the money then not unless those

01:43:11.312 --> 01:43:13.052
people did something egregious,

01:43:14.490 --> 01:43:18.610
And you shouldn't be firing them because we've got the money to pay them.

01:43:20.410 --> 01:43:27.130
That's how that's supposed to work. Right. But, you know, I want y'all to pay

01:43:27.130 --> 01:43:29.090
attention to all that. And I want you to be engaged.

01:43:29.290 --> 01:43:35.750
I want y'all to demand that your Congress person does their job.

01:43:35.970 --> 01:43:37.770
Doesn't matter if they're Democrat, Republican, Independent.

01:43:37.770 --> 01:43:39.570
Independent, remind them.

01:43:39.910 --> 01:43:45.390
Because there's some that's like, well, I don't know how I can do, bro.

01:43:46.130 --> 01:43:52.990
You're in one of those 535 seats, 435 on the House side, 100 on the Senate side.

01:43:53.670 --> 01:43:56.730
You have a direct line to the president of the United States,

01:43:57.010 --> 01:43:58.930
regardless of what party you're in.

01:43:59.190 --> 01:44:01.790
And you can ask a president to stop.

01:44:02.270 --> 01:44:05.630
Just stop this. I need you to focus.

01:44:06.710 --> 01:44:12.670
Don't let this guy play you. I need you to focus. Right? It's real simple.

01:44:13.690 --> 01:44:19.110
But the people who hired all these 535 folks, y'all need to remind them that

01:44:19.110 --> 01:44:20.090
they need to do their job.

01:44:20.850 --> 01:44:25.970
If the United States Congress says, Mr. President, you need to stop, he's going to stop.

01:44:26.990 --> 01:44:31.170
Because even if the Supreme Court says he has quote-unquote immunity.

01:44:33.190 --> 01:44:38.130
They're not encouraging him to break the law, right?

01:44:39.090 --> 01:44:42.710
You might have given him temptation, but you didn't encourage him.

01:44:43.570 --> 01:44:48.030
And I promise you, if the U.S. Congress in unison says stop that,

01:44:48.750 --> 01:44:55.330
he's going to have to stop it because then there's other steps that take place if he doesn't, right?

01:44:56.290 --> 01:45:00.150
We're lacking a lot of courage. I've stated that before.

01:45:00.410 --> 01:45:04.710
We're lacking a lot of American leaders. I've stated that before.

01:45:05.330 --> 01:45:10.150
So now is the time for us to do what we need to do.

01:45:11.010 --> 01:45:16.010
If you are a citizen of the United States of America, you have power, period.

01:45:16.690 --> 01:45:23.190
You have rights, you have a voice. And when time comes for an election, you have a vote.

01:45:24.030 --> 01:45:27.950
So I'm just asking y'all to get more engaged.

01:45:28.570 --> 01:45:34.290
Don't wait till somebody calls you in a poll and asks you how you feel about it. Pick up a phone.

01:45:35.610 --> 01:45:39.750
You got your phone with you all the time. Just call your congressperson.

01:45:40.230 --> 01:45:45.710
Take five minutes out your day and just let them know, hey, I need you to do your job.

01:45:48.386 --> 01:45:56.046
And I promise you, if the overwhelming majority of Americans do that,

01:45:56.346 --> 01:46:02.686
then all of this, the madness will stop and folks will start focusing.

01:46:03.026 --> 01:46:05.306
Because see, here's what's really getting ready to happen.

01:46:06.386 --> 01:46:13.366
We're going to have all this chaos, all this mess, and the government will probably

01:46:13.366 --> 01:46:15.466
be shut down by March the 14th.

01:46:16.526 --> 01:46:22.806
March the 14th it's right around the corner so now we got this chaos going on

01:46:22.806 --> 01:46:26.146
people leaving and the government might just actually shut down because they're

01:46:26.146 --> 01:46:27.726
not going to be able to reach an agreement,

01:46:29.926 --> 01:46:35.106
and the political party is going to posture the Democrats are going to say we're

01:46:35.106 --> 01:46:39.926
not supporting anything else till y'all stop this foolishness the Republicans

01:46:39.926 --> 01:46:42.026
are going to be like well we got to do this,

01:46:43.286 --> 01:46:46.206
you know because our fearless leaders said do it.

01:46:46.746 --> 01:46:51.746
And then on March 15th, the Ides of March, the government of the United States

01:46:51.746 --> 01:46:52.806
of America would be shut down.

01:46:55.046 --> 01:47:00.706
That's why you need courageous folks. That's why you need real leaders, real American leaders.

01:47:01.446 --> 01:47:07.326
This is why. Because we shouldn't be in that kind of a crisis.

01:47:07.446 --> 01:47:10.486
A crisis should be 9-11, right?

01:47:11.186 --> 01:47:14.106
Pearl Harbor. Those are crisis moments.

01:47:15.206 --> 01:47:21.106
Not this. All this is is people with a lack of commitment and a lack of courage.

01:47:21.606 --> 01:47:26.946
They need to find it so our government can function. That's all.

01:47:27.686 --> 01:47:30.706
You know, just stand up to the bully.

01:47:31.346 --> 01:47:34.366
You did it when you were in elementary school. You did it when you were in high

01:47:34.366 --> 01:47:38.866
school. You've grown now. Stand up to the bully. Shut it down.

01:47:39.706 --> 01:47:41.326
So the government won't shut down.

01:47:42.366 --> 01:47:46.346
Shut the bully down so the government won't shut down, right?

01:47:47.466 --> 01:47:51.926
That's all I got, y'all. I appreciate y'all tuning in.

01:47:52.346 --> 01:47:57.386
Continue to support the podcast through Patreon. You can give donations directly

01:47:57.386 --> 01:47:59.166
on GoFundMe, whatever, you know.

01:47:59.846 --> 01:48:03.906
Listen to all the other shows on the MBG Podcast Network.

01:48:05.726 --> 01:48:09.066
And as always, thank you for listening. Until next time.

01:48:12.246 --> 01:48:12.546
.

01:48:13.680 --> 01:48:57.276
Music.