The Great American Games Featuring Wajahat Ali, Rick Roberts and Dave Heller

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.117
Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

00:00:06.417 --> 00:00:08.977
I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

00:00:09.337 --> 00:00:12.737
If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

00:00:13.257 --> 00:00:19.377
First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

00:00:19.757 --> 00:00:24.637
Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

00:00:24.637 --> 00:00:27.957
truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

00:00:28.557 --> 00:00:32.837
Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

00:00:32.837 --> 00:00:35.577
listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

00:00:36.457 --> 00:00:41.917
Third, go to the website, momenteric.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

00:00:42.297 --> 00:00:47.257
leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

00:00:47.857 --> 00:00:51.877
Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

00:00:52.577 --> 00:00:57.097
Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

00:00:57.097 --> 00:01:02.417
and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

00:01:02.417 --> 00:01:04.177
make this moment a movement.

00:01:04.537 --> 00:01:10.197
Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

00:01:11.337 --> 00:01:16.377
The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:55.920
Music.

00:01:56.798 --> 00:02:02.158
Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

00:02:02.858 --> 00:02:10.498
And so today, you are going to be treated to three gentlemen as guests on the podcast.

00:02:12.298 --> 00:02:16.278
And I entitled this podcast, The Great American Games.

00:02:16.898 --> 00:02:23.558
And the reason why I did is because these three gentlemen represent the three

00:02:23.558 --> 00:02:27.738
American games, money, politics, and baseball.

00:02:29.318 --> 00:02:34.798
Yes, I know we're a football culture now, but I'm as old school as you can get

00:02:34.798 --> 00:02:42.098
when it comes to sports, and I just think baseball is the greatest game ever invented, and I love it.

00:02:42.798 --> 00:02:48.918
And so one of my guests, who is a very, very astute political consultant,

00:02:48.918 --> 00:02:53.278
also happens to be an owner of a baseball team, minor league team.

00:02:53.438 --> 00:02:57.438
So as a matter of fact, several, to be honest.

00:02:57.778 --> 00:03:04.718
And so that's why I entitled it The Great American Games, because the guests

00:03:04.718 --> 00:03:06.478
encompass all three of those.

00:03:07.978 --> 00:03:13.238
Things, but particularly money and politics, are definitely American games too.

00:03:13.698 --> 00:03:21.078
And one of the smartest and wittiest podcasters, intellectuals,

00:03:21.178 --> 00:03:27.218
political commentators will be one of the guests and one of the coolest economists.

00:03:27.678 --> 00:03:31.498
Frequent guests on this program will also be making an appearance.

00:03:31.818 --> 00:03:37.518
So I'm greatly honored that those three gentlemen took the time out,

00:03:37.698 --> 00:03:41.678
and I hope that you enjoy the conversations as well.

00:03:42.398 --> 00:03:45.898
We're still on a mission to get 20,000 subscribers.

00:03:46.238 --> 00:03:52.518
You can go to patreon.com slash amomentwithErikFleming in order to make that happen.

00:03:52.578 --> 00:03:54.878
It's only a dollar a month.

00:03:55.638 --> 00:04:01.318
And, you know, we just, you know, really, really need that support,

00:04:01.518 --> 00:04:02.378
need that encouragement.

00:04:03.038 --> 00:04:06.778
I'm going to keep pressing on like I've been doing since 2019.

00:04:08.078 --> 00:04:14.078
But, you know, the opportunity is there to guarantee that this podcast,

00:04:14.098 --> 00:04:21.078
if you so desire, will stay on for as long as it needs to. And especially in these times.

00:04:21.958 --> 00:04:26.358
So this is going to be a long show because I've got three guests and we had

00:04:26.358 --> 00:04:28.578
pretty good conversations.

00:04:29.418 --> 00:04:37.318
And then I've got to release something at the end. So just bear with us, enjoy the show.

00:04:37.918 --> 00:04:43.238
And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:49.200
Music.

00:04:50.367 --> 00:04:55.367
Thanks, Erik. Texas House Democrats fled the state to block a Republican-led

00:04:55.367 --> 00:05:00.067
Trump-backed redistricting plan that could eliminate five Democratic congressional seats.

00:05:00.287 --> 00:05:05.327
A U.S. Army sergeant shot and wounded five fellow soldiers at Fort Stewart Army

00:05:05.327 --> 00:05:08.367
Airfield in Georgia before being subdued and arrested.

00:05:08.847 --> 00:05:13.307
U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi has directed federal prosecutors to launch a

00:05:13.307 --> 00:05:17.567
grand jury investigation into allegations that members of the Obama administration

00:05:17.567 --> 00:05:22.367
created false intelligence regarding Russia's interference in the 2016 elections.

00:05:22.647 --> 00:05:26.887
The U.S. Supreme Court will assess in October a key part of the Voting Rights

00:05:26.887 --> 00:05:30.907
Act to determine whether it is constitutional for states to create additional

00:05:30.907 --> 00:05:35.147
districts with majority-minority populations to remedy racial discrimination.

00:05:35.447 --> 00:05:40.907
The Corporation for Public Broadcasting will shut down in September after losing its federal funding.

00:05:41.127 --> 00:05:46.267
President Trump fired a top Labor Department official after a weak jobs report,

00:05:46.467 --> 00:05:49.367
accusing her without evidence of manipulating the data.

00:05:49.967 --> 00:05:54.607
Ghislaine Maxwell has been transferred to a lower-security prison in Texas after

00:05:54.607 --> 00:05:57.587
meeting with U.S. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche.

00:05:58.047 --> 00:06:02.847
Federal Reserve Governor Adriana Kugler is resigning early, which could allow

00:06:02.847 --> 00:06:04.867
President Trump to appoint her replacement.

00:06:05.207 --> 00:06:09.587
A federal appeals court has lifted a lower court's ruling, allowing the Trump

00:06:09.587 --> 00:06:13.547
administration to strip hundreds of thousands of federal workers of their ability

00:06:13.547 --> 00:06:15.147
to engage in union bargaining.

00:06:15.367 --> 00:06:20.787
A federal judge has rejected a bid by 16 Democratic-led states to restore hundreds

00:06:20.787 --> 00:06:24.807
of millions of dollars in grants that the Trump administration canceled for

00:06:24.807 --> 00:06:27.027
diversity programs in STEM fields.

00:06:27.507 --> 00:06:31.987
The National Museum of American History plans to reinstate references to President

00:06:31.987 --> 00:06:36.207
Trump in its impeachment exhibit after they were temporarily removed due to

00:06:36.207 --> 00:06:37.507
aesthetic considerations.

00:06:37.967 --> 00:06:39.287
And U.S.

00:06:39.927 --> 00:06:41.147
Representative Nancy Mace has

00:06:41.147 --> 00:06:46.067
announced her candidacy for the 2026 South Carolina gubernatorial race.

00:06:46.387 --> 00:06:50.167
I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.

00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:56.240
Music.

00:06:57.387 --> 00:07:04.507
All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for my guest, Wajahat Ali.

00:07:05.487 --> 00:07:09.987
Wajahat Ali is a Daily Beast columnist, public speaker, recovering attorney,

00:07:10.287 --> 00:07:12.227
and tired dad of three cute kids.

00:07:12.567 --> 00:07:17.047
He is the author of the book, Go Back to Where You Came From and other helpful

00:07:17.047 --> 00:07:19.127
recommendations on becoming American.

00:07:19.467 --> 00:07:23.387
He believes in sharing stories that are by us, for everyone.

00:07:23.767 --> 00:07:28.167
Universal narratives told through a culturally specific lens to entertain,

00:07:28.467 --> 00:07:30.427
educate, and bridge the global divides.

00:07:30.707 --> 00:07:33.667
He also enjoys writing about himself in the third person.

00:07:33.927 --> 00:07:38.007
He frequently appears on television and podcasts for his brilliant,

00:07:38.147 --> 00:07:40.307
incisive, and witty political commentary.

00:07:40.687 --> 00:07:44.627
Born in the Bay Area, California to Pakistani immigrant parents.

00:07:45.187 --> 00:07:48.847
Ali went to school wearing husky pants and knowing only three words of English.

00:07:49.167 --> 00:07:53.987
He graduated from UC Berkeley with an English major and became a licensed attorney.

00:07:54.307 --> 00:07:58.407
He knows what it feels like to be the token minority in the classroom and the

00:07:58.407 --> 00:08:00.027
darkest person in a boardroom.

00:08:00.247 --> 00:08:05.407
Like Spider-Man, he's often had the power and responsibility of being the cultural

00:08:05.407 --> 00:08:10.847
ambassador of an entire group of people, those who are often marginalized,

00:08:11.387 --> 00:08:13.367
silenced, and reduced to stereotypes.

00:08:13.807 --> 00:08:18.467
His essays, interviews, and reporting have appeared in the New York Times,

00:08:18.887 --> 00:08:24.167
The Atlantic, The Washington Post, The Guardian, and New York Review of Books.

00:08:24.607 --> 00:08:30.547
Ali has spoken at many organizations from Google to Walmart to Princeton University

00:08:30.547 --> 00:08:36.327
to United Nations and to the Shandy, Shadney,

00:08:36.647 --> 00:08:39.807
excuse me, Indian Pakistani restaurant in Newark, California,

00:08:40.107 --> 00:08:42.727
and his living room in front of his three kids.

00:08:42.947 --> 00:08:47.027
His newest venture is being editor of the Left Hook on Substack,

00:08:47.127 --> 00:08:50.747
and he is the co-host of Democracy-ish with Danielle Moody.

00:08:51.027 --> 00:08:55.267
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:08:55.267 --> 00:08:58.307
on this podcast, Wajahat Ali.

00:08:58.800 --> 00:09:08.560
Music.

00:09:09.083 --> 00:09:13.863
All right. Wajahat Ali. How you doing, brother? You doing good?

00:09:14.783 --> 00:09:18.683
I'm doing well, sir. Finally, we get to talk. Thank you so much for reaching out.

00:09:18.983 --> 00:09:23.483
Well, I am. I'm honored you accepted it because I've been a fan of you and Danielle's

00:09:23.483 --> 00:09:27.283
for a long time, at least going on three years for sure.

00:09:27.943 --> 00:09:31.763
Danielle's the superstar. So I'm just her. I'm like, she's a Batman. I'm Robin.

00:09:32.223 --> 00:09:38.103
Well, I'd say more like Nightwing, but you know, You're more of the Dick Grayson type.

00:09:38.403 --> 00:09:42.983
Your nerd bona fides have come out, sir, and I actually understood that reference. Well done.

00:09:43.603 --> 00:09:47.503
Yes, sir. Well, that's the other thing. There's a lot of things we have in common,

00:09:47.503 --> 00:09:51.823
and we'll kind of gloss over that during the interview.

00:09:52.043 --> 00:09:55.663
But what I normally like to do is kind of kick it off with a couple of icebreakers.

00:09:56.143 --> 00:09:58.643
So the first icebreaker I do is a quote.

00:09:59.403 --> 00:10:03.843
So this is the quote I want you to respond to. Like many great works of theater,

00:10:04.183 --> 00:10:09.723
I believe America is simultaneously a riotous comedy and a heartbreaking tragedy.

00:10:10.363 --> 00:10:15.943
Our hamartia, our fatal flaw, is racism. It haunts us every day.

00:10:16.543 --> 00:10:20.723
Thankfully, our last act is unwritten. What does that quote mean to you?

00:10:20.723 --> 00:10:22.443
I think I wrote that, actually.

00:10:22.683 --> 00:10:27.123
And I wrote that in my book. And what that means to me is my complicated relationship

00:10:27.123 --> 00:10:30.143
with the United States of America, the country that I was born in.

00:10:30.523 --> 00:10:35.003
With me both loving a country that doesn't necessarily love the rest of us back,

00:10:35.063 --> 00:10:37.903
and also acknowledging the good and the bad in this country.

00:10:37.903 --> 00:10:42.183
And the bad, if you will, the twin sins of this country, I would say,

00:10:42.263 --> 00:10:45.123
is in addition to racism and white supremacy, it's also been greed.

00:10:45.343 --> 00:10:50.203
And I believe that we have never been able to reach our apex,

00:10:50.403 --> 00:10:54.683
our highest potential as a country due to these two enduring sins that,

00:10:54.803 --> 00:10:58.303
A, we refuse to acknowledge and, B, we refuse to confront.

00:10:58.303 --> 00:11:05.223
And if people don't believe me, I give you 2025 where, you know, it's self-immolation.

00:11:05.543 --> 00:11:09.363
You know, the worst person possible, the most ill-equipped, unqualified individual

00:11:09.363 --> 00:11:11.823
who failed the first time got reelected.

00:11:11.923 --> 00:11:16.043
Not by a majority, not by more than 50%. He's never broken 50%,

00:11:16.043 --> 00:11:18.223
but by enough, 49% of plurality.

00:11:18.223 --> 00:11:23.583
And he has re-entered the White House on an explicit agenda of cruelty and let's

00:11:23.583 --> 00:11:29.463
just be honest, white supremacy and racism and greed were just yesterday as

00:11:29.463 --> 00:11:31.783
of this recording, I mean, I just saw the video earlier today,

00:11:32.063 --> 00:11:33.983
you know, I kept hearing about it, but then I just saw the video,

00:11:34.103 --> 00:11:38.703
do you see the video of Tim Cook of Apple literally bribing this mother effer

00:11:38.703 --> 00:11:44.403
with a 24-carat gold in the Oval Office, he's like, here's gold please exempt

00:11:44.403 --> 00:11:47.043
Apple from tariffs, and Donald Trump's like Okay.

00:11:47.703 --> 00:11:49.663
I mean, it's the type of stuff that,

00:11:50.227 --> 00:11:54.127
We read about in the Old Testament and New Testament and the Quran.

00:11:54.287 --> 00:11:59.907
It's like straight up like fables, archetypes, the modern day pharaoh.

00:12:00.167 --> 00:12:02.947
I call Donald Trump the modern day pharaoh. There are many similarities.

00:12:03.247 --> 00:12:08.327
So it is the, you know, what Donald Trump is, he manifests in physical form,

00:12:08.427 --> 00:12:13.547
Eric, that hamartia, that fatal flaw of America.

00:12:13.647 --> 00:12:19.147
And it's up to the rest of us to make sure that he's not the wrecking ball that destroys us. Yeah.

00:12:19.767 --> 00:12:25.367
All right. And so the next icebreaker is called 20 questions.

00:12:25.947 --> 00:12:31.527
Okay, let's do it. So I need you to give me a number between one and 20. How do you feel?

00:12:31.967 --> 00:12:34.347
Do you want double digits, single digits? You tell me.

00:12:34.887 --> 00:12:42.547
Go with double digits. 11. All right. Where do you go to check a fact that you see, hear, read?

00:12:43.267 --> 00:12:47.167
Oh, that's very good. I try to go to the original source.

00:12:47.167 --> 00:12:49.827
So if there's a hyperlink I try to

00:12:49.827 --> 00:12:53.047
go to the original source and if there's no hyperlink then I do

00:12:53.047 --> 00:12:55.727
go on google I google it and then

00:12:55.727 --> 00:13:00.767
I want to see at least one other source citing it if it's a quote it's always

00:13:00.767 --> 00:13:04.207
good to go for to the horse's mouth you want to hear the audio and the video

00:13:04.207 --> 00:13:08.847
so you either want to see it or or hear it and then if it's an exclusive reporting

00:13:08.847 --> 00:13:12.867
then you have to cite that it's exclusive reporting like you know ProPublica

00:13:12.867 --> 00:13:15.267
exclusive reporting New York Times exclusive reporting.

00:13:15.407 --> 00:13:17.347
Then you cite to the original link.

00:13:17.507 --> 00:13:21.467
I try my best to do that to separate fact from fiction. And especially because,

00:13:21.607 --> 00:13:24.547
you know, I have this sub stack and people rely upon me with my interviews.

00:13:25.427 --> 00:13:28.207
That's what I try to do. Yeah. All right.

00:13:28.267 --> 00:13:33.187
So how did a left-handed only child of Pakistani immigrants from the Bay Area

00:13:33.187 --> 00:13:38.007
become a lawyer and then evolve into one of the foremost and funniest public

00:13:38.007 --> 00:13:39.847
intellectuals in America?

00:13:40.087 --> 00:13:43.927
So I don't know if I'm the one of the foremost or funniest, but that's very kind of you.

00:13:43.927 --> 00:13:46.587
But you know it's i still haven't figured out what i want to be

00:13:46.587 --> 00:13:49.367
when i grow up i'm 44 years old but when

00:13:49.367 --> 00:13:52.367
i was young growing up in the bay area i just i always

00:13:52.367 --> 00:13:55.867
wanted to tell stories i enjoyed telling stories i enjoyed communicating

00:13:55.867 --> 00:13:58.827
my my stories my people stories to my friends

00:13:58.827 --> 00:14:01.527
i was oftentimes the token meaning i

00:14:01.527 --> 00:14:04.667
was like the sole representative of all brown people are all muslims

00:14:04.667 --> 00:14:09.447
and uh i became the conduit that one dude that a lot of people grew up with

00:14:09.447 --> 00:14:13.447
in elementary school in high school said oh yeah yeah we know a muslim we know

00:14:13.447 --> 00:14:17.827
a pakistani and so you know i remember in high school i was writing for the

00:14:17.827 --> 00:14:22.527
school newspaper and i was doing improv comedy with the improv comedy troupe and then in college.

00:14:23.248 --> 00:14:28.108
I was undeclared, and I was writing a lot, and I was also doing,

00:14:28.328 --> 00:14:32.528
we started a sketch comedy troupe where we wrote and directed and produced our own shows.

00:14:32.908 --> 00:14:38.008
And then, you know, my teacher, Ishmael Reed, told me to switch from short story

00:14:38.008 --> 00:14:40.588
writing to write a play. This was after 9-11.

00:14:41.208 --> 00:14:45.028
And you and I are old enough to remember this country lost its mind after 9-11.

00:14:45.028 --> 00:14:48.968
And so Ishmael Reed, who is a juggernaut in American literature of black men,

00:14:49.128 --> 00:14:55.568
said, as a black man, I can tell you that your people are going to get hazed for the next 10 years.

00:14:55.928 --> 00:14:59.328
And the way we, and he was talking about black folks, have fought back is through

00:14:59.328 --> 00:15:00.488
art, culture, and storytelling.

00:15:00.708 --> 00:15:04.108
That's how they haven't erased us. And, you know, I've never read an American

00:15:04.108 --> 00:15:08.228
kitchen drama, but from the perspective of like a Muslims or Pakistanis, right?

00:15:08.348 --> 00:15:11.868
Like, like death of a salesman or fences or a long day's journey in a night.

00:15:12.108 --> 00:15:16.048
And so he said, you know, don't write short stories. I think your talent,

00:15:16.228 --> 00:15:19.548
I think you're better suited for plays because you have a great ear for dialogue.

00:15:19.748 --> 00:15:23.368
So write me 20 pages of a play of a fictional American Muslim family,

00:15:23.368 --> 00:15:28.408
and then you can pass the class. And so that became the basis of my first play,

00:15:28.588 --> 00:15:30.068
which I then produced and published.

00:15:30.588 --> 00:15:35.488
And that led me on to this weird, wild career where I still am trying to figure

00:15:35.488 --> 00:15:36.748
out what I want to be when I grow up.

00:15:37.228 --> 00:15:42.128
Well, you know, as somebody that's a little older than you, trust me, you've got some time.

00:15:44.148 --> 00:15:47.088
And I know you've got a lot of things going on, man.

00:15:47.308 --> 00:15:52.408
So I really, but you're refreshing. I'm a fellow left-handed writer.

00:15:53.028 --> 00:16:00.248
And so I greatly appreciate your creativity Because that's the one thing It's like,

00:16:00.348 --> 00:16:06.268
to me, left-handed people are smart But we're also very, very creative And it

00:16:06.268 --> 00:16:13.328
shows because the way that you do your show With Danielle and all that stuff You can see the comedic,

00:16:13.931 --> 00:16:17.731
part, but you can also tell where the intellect is coming from.

00:16:17.851 --> 00:16:22.251
And most comedians are some of the smartest people, maybe not so many on the

00:16:22.251 --> 00:16:24.611
other podcasts, but that's a whole nother conversation. Anyway.

00:16:25.051 --> 00:16:29.791
No, but I appreciate that you are a fellow lefty, you know, and I think the

00:16:29.791 --> 00:16:34.191
reason why we're forced to be creative and resourceful is because the entire

00:16:34.191 --> 00:16:35.751
world oppresses us, sir.

00:16:36.271 --> 00:16:40.551
We, you know, people don't realize we're 11% of the population and from birth,

00:16:40.551 --> 00:16:43.931
we have to reorient ourselves to live in a right-handed world,

00:16:43.931 --> 00:16:49.391
whether it is the desks, pencils, scissors, gloves, right?

00:16:49.531 --> 00:16:53.611
So I'm sure like me, you were forced to be in some way, shape or capacity ambidextrous.

00:16:54.251 --> 00:17:00.211
Well, initially, like when I play sports, I throw right-handed.

00:17:00.871 --> 00:17:04.411
But I bat left-handed in baseball and all this stuff. So yeah, you've had to play that.

00:17:04.571 --> 00:17:09.731
But there was some, you had mentioned something in your book where you talked

00:17:09.731 --> 00:17:13.591
about the teacher made a comment about you being left-handed.

00:17:13.831 --> 00:17:18.351
And it reminded me, I had a teacher in the kindergarten that said that I was

00:17:18.351 --> 00:17:19.451
writing with the devil's hand.

00:17:19.911 --> 00:17:23.751
And my mom was a teacher at the time. And I told her what the teacher said.

00:17:23.891 --> 00:17:28.251
And she came up to the school and I didn't have a problem with that teacher ever again in life.

00:17:28.491 --> 00:17:34.631
So, you know, I can definitely relate to how we get put in a box and all that stuff.

00:17:35.191 --> 00:17:40.311
Yeah, the same, the same. And, you know, I have a section in the book where

00:17:40.311 --> 00:17:44.551
I talk about they tried to convert me from left-handed to right-handed.

00:17:44.791 --> 00:17:48.631
And my grandmother used to hold my left hand behind my back and my mother used

00:17:48.631 --> 00:17:51.631
to throw tennis balls at me, assuming that I would catch it with my right hand.

00:17:51.931 --> 00:17:56.171
And instead, I was just like this healthy. Healthy was how we used to describe

00:17:56.171 --> 00:17:57.451
overweight kids in the 80s.

00:17:57.591 --> 00:18:00.871
The tennis balls used to bounce off my flesh because I was so stubborn that

00:18:00.871 --> 00:18:03.391
I kept trying to just grab it with my left hand.

00:18:03.551 --> 00:18:06.911
And then eventually a family member said, just let it go. Let it go.

00:18:07.431 --> 00:18:11.931
He is unfortunately left-handed. And to this day, I'm the only left-handed person

00:18:11.931 --> 00:18:15.091
from both my mother's side and my father's side. Wow.

00:18:16.251 --> 00:18:19.811
I think there's somebody else left-handed that I'm related to.

00:18:19.891 --> 00:18:24.051
I just can't remember who it is right now, but I don't think I'm the only one within my immediate,

00:18:24.707 --> 00:18:27.847
group but i'm an only child as well so oh yeah

00:18:27.847 --> 00:18:31.727
so we have a lot in common sir you know how it is yeah so we're

00:18:31.727 --> 00:18:34.787
not we're not self this is the thing people think we're selfish oh you're

00:18:34.787 --> 00:18:39.347
the only child no no no i i would say we're not selfish and no one's accused

00:18:39.347 --> 00:18:44.387
me of being like a miser or selfish we are i would say self-centered in the

00:18:44.387 --> 00:18:48.987
in what and what i mean by self-centered is we are accustomed to our own space

00:18:48.987 --> 00:18:52.187
and time and that's what i've seen with a lot of only children right?

00:18:52.307 --> 00:18:57.327
And we have to navigate, we've usually navigated our world with adults,

00:18:57.587 --> 00:18:59.127
number one, at a very young age.

00:18:59.207 --> 00:19:03.487
And number two, we've been given our own space and time because we don't have siblings.

00:19:03.587 --> 00:19:07.207
And I find that that's, that's the through line for a lot of old kids is like,

00:19:07.327 --> 00:19:08.847
we'll talk to people. We could be extroverted.

00:19:08.987 --> 00:19:12.607
We'll, we'll be generous, but we still need that like fortress of solitude moment.

00:19:13.187 --> 00:19:17.447
Yeah. And then we're, we're kind of, we're, well, I'm an introvert that was

00:19:17.447 --> 00:19:18.887
forced to be an extrovert, right?

00:19:19.007 --> 00:19:21.287
Because I got into politics and all that stuff.

00:19:21.827 --> 00:19:26.247
But the other thing I would also say is that we tend to be more accountable

00:19:26.247 --> 00:19:28.387
because we're the only ones.

00:19:28.527 --> 00:19:31.787
It's like, who didn't wash the dishes? Well, I guess that would be me.

00:19:31.927 --> 00:19:32.427
You know what I'm saying?

00:19:32.947 --> 00:19:38.607
So, you know. I didn't do it. Yeah, you couldn't blame it on anybody else. All right. So.

00:19:39.417 --> 00:19:43.337
You kind of started on one name I wanted to do, but the way I wanted to do this

00:19:43.337 --> 00:19:47.757
conversation is I wanted to highlight three people and I wanted to give you

00:19:47.757 --> 00:19:50.277
what you think of those three people.

00:19:50.577 --> 00:19:54.097
And then I would follow up with a question concerning that person.

00:19:54.377 --> 00:19:59.777
So you started off on Donald Trump. So let's go ahead and finish what you think about him. Sure.

00:20:00.597 --> 00:20:07.417
Go ahead. I think he's a criminal Bulgarian who has never faced accountability

00:20:07.417 --> 00:20:12.997
in his entire life because he has been protected by wealth, whiteness, and fame.

00:20:13.277 --> 00:20:19.157
I believe that he is our modern-day pharaoh, a man of gluttonous appetites without

00:20:19.157 --> 00:20:23.337
restraint, who believes that he'll live forever or should live forever, but he won't.

00:20:23.617 --> 00:20:28.277
And he's a broken man, like so many of these powerful, quote-unquote powerful

00:20:28.277 --> 00:20:31.117
men who are destroying us, where it's never enough.

00:20:31.257 --> 00:20:33.377
There's like this endless hole inside these men.

00:20:33.557 --> 00:20:37.037
Not enough women, not enough money, not enough wealth, not enough adulation.

00:20:37.197 --> 00:20:39.937
There's still never enough, Eric, if you've noticed, right? They need more,

00:20:39.997 --> 00:20:44.957
more, more, more, more. And that's to fill a gnawing emptiness inside them, a void.

00:20:45.297 --> 00:20:49.217
And he just wished these men were able to like, you know, have normal parents

00:20:49.217 --> 00:20:54.057
who love them and, you know, go to therapy and discover empathy.

00:20:54.057 --> 00:20:57.537
But as we know that these men, and it's like a brologarchy of men,

00:20:57.657 --> 00:20:58.937
right? What did Elon Musk say?

00:20:59.077 --> 00:21:03.177
Empathy is weakness, which shows you the brokenness of these modern day pharaohs.

00:21:03.737 --> 00:21:06.977
But I will say this, the most powerful men at the end of the day,

00:21:07.097 --> 00:21:08.597
you know what they can't escape? Death.

00:21:09.117 --> 00:21:14.097
Yeah, that's true. That's true. So can America repair itself from the carnage

00:21:14.097 --> 00:21:17.197
he will have left behind? See, this is a very good question.

00:21:18.157 --> 00:21:25.237
Can it? Yes. Will it? I don't know. and people who think it's going to be a snap of the fingers and,

00:21:25.967 --> 00:21:29.187
I don't, I think the, you know, I was talking to experts. You don't have to

00:21:29.187 --> 00:21:31.347
be an expert. You just have to look at the evidence of your own eyes in front

00:21:31.347 --> 00:21:33.607
of you. Just look at the past seven months of his presidency.

00:21:34.487 --> 00:21:38.587
The damage that he's already done, and not just him, but like the entire machinery.

00:21:38.867 --> 00:21:41.067
And I'm not just talking about Republicans, but like, you know,

00:21:41.207 --> 00:21:43.347
we went, we talked about Tim Cook bending the knee.

00:21:43.547 --> 00:21:47.187
Literally, folks, yesterday, as of this recording, the guy gave him gold in

00:21:47.187 --> 00:21:49.727
exchange for like, you know, freedom from these tariffs.

00:21:50.167 --> 00:21:53.687
We've seen all these institutions, Eric, voluntarily bend the knee.

00:21:53.687 --> 00:22:01.047
CBS, Paramount, ABC, Apple, billionaires, law firms, the damage that has been

00:22:01.047 --> 00:22:05.967
done is generational to USAID, Department of Education, America's reputation.

00:22:06.587 --> 00:22:10.407
Measles is skyrocketing now. The damage to our public health infrastructure,

00:22:10.647 --> 00:22:14.927
where RFK, a freaking non-doctor, you know, conspiracy theorist,

00:22:15.187 --> 00:22:19.167
former heroin addict, just announced, I think two days ago, that they're cutting

00:22:19.167 --> 00:22:21.367
$500 million of research from vaccines.

00:22:21.367 --> 00:22:26.447
I mean, this is just, it is a pro-death cult. I mean, I used to use the analogy idiocracy.

00:22:26.687 --> 00:22:31.487
I don't use it anymore because idiocracy, great movie, was not this idiotic, Eric.

00:22:31.707 --> 00:22:36.027
Even idiocracy was not this idiotic. So there is generational damage that I

00:22:36.027 --> 00:22:39.467
don't think people have really, really put their heads around.

00:22:39.887 --> 00:22:43.387
And they think that somehow, you know, come 2026 with the midterm elections

00:22:43.387 --> 00:22:48.007
or 2028, if indeed Democrats, if indeed they run on the right platform,

00:22:48.167 --> 00:22:51.867
win, And that's how they can snap their fingers and inshallah,

00:22:52.007 --> 00:22:52.687
everything will be better.

00:22:53.007 --> 00:22:58.507
I think this is a long walk and I think it's going to require all of us to put in a lot of effort.

00:22:58.827 --> 00:23:02.747
And my hope is that we no longer go back to restoration because,

00:23:03.027 --> 00:23:06.587
Eric, America of the past wasn't so great for the rest of us.

00:23:06.727 --> 00:23:10.187
We go to reformation. And will this country finally reform itself?

00:23:10.687 --> 00:23:14.467
It's possible. I have to be hopeful. And I think that's the reason why it's

00:23:14.467 --> 00:23:19.187
going to take long, because it needs to be reformation rather than restoration.

00:23:19.727 --> 00:23:24.067
Absolutely. You know, and I was I was listening to your conversation with Bob

00:23:24.067 --> 00:23:29.307
Cesca and, you know, Bob was saying that it was a generational thing.

00:23:29.547 --> 00:23:37.107
And I said, that's exactly right, because, I mean, 249 years has basically been

00:23:37.107 --> 00:23:40.367
dismantled or destroyed in six months. Yep.

00:23:40.787 --> 00:23:45.507
And and it's going to take some time to to get us in a in a whole new direction.

00:23:45.987 --> 00:23:51.127
All right. I'm gonna jump over to across the water and then we come back to the United States.

00:23:51.287 --> 00:23:55.187
So the next person is Benjamin Netanyahu. What do you think about that name?

00:23:56.548 --> 00:24:01.688
A war criminal who is currently conducting a genocide against the Palestinian

00:24:01.688 --> 00:24:08.248
people and is very Trumpian in his corruption and his desire for everlasting power.

00:24:08.428 --> 00:24:13.868
But a man who nonetheless one day will die and his legacy will be that of failure

00:24:13.868 --> 00:24:17.228
and bloodshed and needless carnage and suffering.

00:24:17.388 --> 00:24:22.048
A man much like Donald Trump who is perfectly fine, willing to let the world

00:24:22.048 --> 00:24:24.628
burn rather than face accountability.

00:24:24.628 --> 00:24:28.928
A man, just like Donald Trump, willing to sacrifice his own people,

00:24:29.188 --> 00:24:35.448
his own country, rather than face accountability for his numerous alleged crimes and his corruption.

00:24:35.628 --> 00:24:40.508
Just a terrible, terrible human being who, for short-term gain,

00:24:40.748 --> 00:24:42.768
is causing long-term damage.

00:24:42.908 --> 00:24:45.868
First and foremost, clearly, to the Palestinians who are being annihilated.

00:24:46.048 --> 00:24:48.548
But also, Erik, to Israel and Jews.

00:24:48.848 --> 00:24:53.968
Israel has its lowest favorability rating ever. Israel has become a prized state

00:24:53.968 --> 00:24:55.248
within the last two years.

00:24:55.568 --> 00:24:59.768
Majority of Americans, for the first time in my lifetime, are now more pro-Palestinian

00:24:59.768 --> 00:25:03.668
than pro-Israel because they've seen genocide live streamed to their phones.

00:25:03.888 --> 00:25:06.808
And this is a man who could have and should have ended the war,

00:25:06.888 --> 00:25:11.708
but he realizes if he ends the war, he loses his government, his coalition.

00:25:11.968 --> 00:25:14.748
And then what will happen? He'll be forced to step down. And then what will

00:25:14.748 --> 00:25:21.128
happen is that he will most likely have to face justice for a numerous corruption

00:25:21.128 --> 00:25:22.528
allegation. So what does he do instead?

00:25:22.768 --> 00:25:28.328
He just keeps that war going, and he keeps it burning. And at what cost?

00:25:28.328 --> 00:25:32.448
So far as of this recording, 61,000 Palestinians, mostly civilians,

00:25:32.628 --> 00:25:34.908
and that's an undercount, have been killed.

00:25:35.748 --> 00:25:41.148
Yeah. And I've had the distinction of interviewing the general counsel here

00:25:41.148 --> 00:25:43.508
in the southeastern part of the United States.

00:25:44.128 --> 00:25:48.008
I've interviewed Guy Golan, who's written a book about the difference between

00:25:48.008 --> 00:25:52.728
Israelis in Israel and Jewish people here in the United States.

00:25:53.268 --> 00:25:59.568
And I don't think either one of them envisioned that they would get this point.

00:25:59.988 --> 00:26:04.068
Even the general counsel said, well, the objective was, you know,

00:26:04.088 --> 00:26:05.628
to totally destroy Hamas.

00:26:05.808 --> 00:26:10.288
But, you know, I haven't heard her talk about that in public.

00:26:10.288 --> 00:26:14.848
Look, I haven't heard anybody coming to her since it's gotten to this point.

00:26:14.868 --> 00:26:20.568
And I just can't conceive that people who interact here in the United States

00:26:20.568 --> 00:26:26.128
and try to defend the state of Israel, you know, for a profession even.

00:26:26.886 --> 00:26:31.506
Would imagine that he would go that far. So the question I have to ask you relating

00:26:31.506 --> 00:26:34.386
to him, and you kind of touched, started on it a little bit.

00:26:34.646 --> 00:26:39.806
Do you think he would ever be held accountable for what he has done to the Palestinian people?

00:26:40.026 --> 00:26:44.466
Not for the crimes that he's done, where he fired the attorney general so he

00:26:44.466 --> 00:26:47.826
wouldn't get, and I think he suspended the Supreme Court too there.

00:26:47.986 --> 00:26:49.306
So he wouldn't. Yeah, they tried.

00:26:50.086 --> 00:26:54.786
And just, I think it was just two days ago where the extremist government just

00:26:54.786 --> 00:26:55.966
fired the attorney general.

00:26:56.146 --> 00:26:59.026
And the attorney general was the individual who was, you know,

00:26:59.126 --> 00:27:00.626
making the case against Netanyahu.

00:27:00.766 --> 00:27:04.466
So he's following, you know, fascists help each other and follow each other's

00:27:04.466 --> 00:27:06.906
playbooks, which is why it's so important that the United States of America,

00:27:07.026 --> 00:27:10.506
despite all of our flaws, you know, nonetheless projects, well,

00:27:10.546 --> 00:27:13.526
used to project rule-based order, used to project democracy, right?

00:27:13.666 --> 00:27:16.386
But now that they see that, you know, the United States doesn't care about that

00:27:16.386 --> 00:27:18.346
anymore, you see copycats.

00:27:18.486 --> 00:27:21.726
In Brazil, Balsonaro tried his best, right? You're seeing copycats, Israel.

00:27:21.946 --> 00:27:23.406
They're like, oh, well, we could

00:27:23.406 --> 00:27:25.426
get away with it because Donald Trump is getting away with it, right?

00:27:25.926 --> 00:27:30.686
It's very dangerous. I hope he's held accountable, but my fear is that this

00:27:30.686 --> 00:27:37.226
man would rather die or he will die before facing true justice.

00:27:37.426 --> 00:27:40.626
And that's my concern with Donald Trump, that this man would probably croak

00:27:40.626 --> 00:27:43.846
in power before actually facing justice.

00:27:44.026 --> 00:27:47.966
I mean, look at Donald Trump. He's never spent a day in court for his role in

00:27:47.966 --> 00:27:49.106
inciting a violent insurrection.

00:27:49.346 --> 00:27:53.546
This is a man who literally picked up the phone, and we have him on audio cheating,

00:27:53.986 --> 00:27:55.986
trying to find enough votes to win Georgia.

00:27:56.166 --> 00:28:00.166
You know, this is a man who refused to give back, you know, very confidential

00:28:00.166 --> 00:28:03.806
documents and had him in the shitter in Mar-a-Lago.

00:28:04.006 --> 00:28:06.726
This is a man who was held liable for sexually assaulting E. Gene Carroll.

00:28:07.066 --> 00:28:11.226
Has never spent a day in his life in jail. Like, we don't even know about the

00:28:11.226 --> 00:28:12.266
financial trail, right?

00:28:12.346 --> 00:28:15.606
Like, has he committed tax fraud? Like, how did this guy make money? Who's bailed him out?

00:28:16.706 --> 00:28:20.246
So it's, yeah, unfortunately I see parallels with these two men,

00:28:20.406 --> 00:28:24.646
but we, you know, going back to the Pharaoh, let's, let's go back to the old

00:28:24.646 --> 00:28:26.526
Testament for, if you will, for a, for a while.

00:28:26.966 --> 00:28:30.066
Pharaoh thought he'd live forever and Pharaoh thought he was the most powerful

00:28:30.066 --> 00:28:34.406
man on earth. And then just like that, he was no more, Erik.

00:28:34.946 --> 00:28:38.686
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know who our Moses is going to be,

00:28:38.786 --> 00:28:45.066
but, and maybe we don't need a Moses. Maybe we just need the masses, but I do hope that.

00:28:46.142 --> 00:28:51.722
You know, as people of faith, we know that they're going to be held accountable at that point.

00:28:51.962 --> 00:29:00.542
But for justice sake, I would hope that those men find some accountability here on this realm.

00:29:00.942 --> 00:29:03.742
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, right? If you're a person of faith and if you're

00:29:03.742 --> 00:29:07.722
a person who, you know, believes in a superpower or a supernatural power of God,

00:29:07.982 --> 00:29:12.242
you do believe that God is ultimately loving and just and that these people,

00:29:12.442 --> 00:29:15.462
their time on this earth, otherwise known as dunya the earth right

00:29:15.462 --> 00:29:18.342
is very limited and so sure they'll get their riches

00:29:18.342 --> 00:29:21.602
and their women and their power but eventually there will

00:29:21.602 --> 00:29:24.262
be a reckoning and you know if we

00:29:24.262 --> 00:29:28.302
and again for those who believe if you one day you you you hope to meet your

00:29:28.302 --> 00:29:31.542
creator you don't fear to meet your creator right and you hope when your creator

00:29:31.542 --> 00:29:35.522
meets you your creator is pleased with you and then these people inshallah one

00:29:35.522 --> 00:29:39.062
day you know they will be held to account for their numerous sins but you need

00:29:39.062 --> 00:29:40.982
to see it too right because this

00:29:40.982 --> 00:29:44.042
is the only life that we have on this earthly plane So you want to see,

00:29:44.242 --> 00:29:46.602
just for once, the bad guy go down.

00:29:46.782 --> 00:29:49.402
You want to see Nightwing and Batman get the Joker.

00:29:49.662 --> 00:29:52.382
And it's important, Erik, right? It's human nature. They need,

00:29:52.502 --> 00:29:57.082
it's faith sometimes has to be anchored with something real,

00:29:57.262 --> 00:29:59.602
something tangible, you know, just to keep it going.

00:29:59.862 --> 00:30:04.662
And I feel like that's why. You see the worst people fail up and the best people get destroyed.

00:30:05.042 --> 00:30:09.182
So let's remain hopeful. Like, look, look at Donald Trump. He's completely underwater

00:30:09.182 --> 00:30:12.022
in his ratings. He's a 79-year-old man. He has cankles.

00:30:12.622 --> 00:30:16.782
He ain't going to last forever. Same with Netanyahu. But before they croak,

00:30:16.902 --> 00:30:19.642
if we can hold these men in some way, shape, or form accountable.

00:30:20.802 --> 00:30:22.002
Inshallah. What else can I say?

00:30:22.382 --> 00:30:29.482
Yeah, I feel you on that. So speaking about hopeful, the next person is Zohran Mamdani.

00:30:31.382 --> 00:30:36.042
My take on Zohran Mamdani, he's run a fantastic campaign, 33 years old,

00:30:36.162 --> 00:30:40.182
most likely suited up to be the mayor of New York, no matter what they throw

00:30:40.182 --> 00:30:45.542
at him, All the racism, all the bad faith smears, all the Islamophobia, it's not working.

00:30:45.782 --> 00:30:48.922
This guy's rising up in the ratings and in the polls.

00:30:49.142 --> 00:30:52.922
And just two days ago, the New York Times had a piece that said a majority of

00:30:52.922 --> 00:30:56.442
young Jewish American voters, Jewish Americans in New York City,

00:30:56.602 --> 00:31:01.262
are for Mamdani, not in spite of his views on Gaza, because of it.

00:31:01.362 --> 00:31:08.562
So all these BS, lazy narratives as Jews versus Muslims and the Jews hate Mamdani nonsense. sense.

00:31:08.862 --> 00:31:12.522
Majority of Jewish voters, black voters, brown voters, white voters,

00:31:12.542 --> 00:31:15.902
they like this guy, Mamdani. And then you've seen.

00:31:16.930 --> 00:31:22.310
This just, it's almost comical, this comical attempt to derail him with the

00:31:22.310 --> 00:31:25.850
establishment from both sides, throwing anything and everything,

00:31:25.870 --> 00:31:29.770
the ketchup bottles, the spaghetti in the kitchen sink at him, and nothing is working.

00:31:30.010 --> 00:31:34.690
And so speaking about like us enjoying a certain moment, we should enjoy that,

00:31:34.870 --> 00:31:36.690
that for the first time ever, it's not working.

00:31:36.790 --> 00:31:40.510
The billionaires have tried, they brought up Bill Clinton, they brought New

00:31:40.510 --> 00:31:42.910
York Times against them, they got Lauren Summers against them,

00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:46.710
they got Representative Clyburn against them, right? They have tried everything.

00:31:46.950 --> 00:31:51.770
They're making him condemn chants he's never used. And it's still not enough, Eric.

00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:55.250
And I think the reason why you're seeing this collective freakout is because

00:31:55.250 --> 00:31:58.570
the billionaires in particular, the people in power are so used for,

00:31:58.710 --> 00:32:00.550
they're used to getting everything they want, right?

00:32:00.650 --> 00:32:04.350
They throw these temper tantrums like, why aren't the people listening to us?

00:32:04.770 --> 00:32:09.290
We don't want him. How can this Muslim democratic socialist who,

00:32:09.310 --> 00:32:11.070
you know, wants to make the city affordable?

00:32:11.310 --> 00:32:17.410
Why, why, why? Like, and so you're seeing the worst people turn against him and nothing is working.

00:32:17.630 --> 00:32:22.170
And the reason why I think Zohran Mamdani is special and the race is special

00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:24.830
is at the end of the day, he's just going to be the mayor of New York.

00:32:25.090 --> 00:32:26.570
Yes, it's the most populous city.

00:32:26.870 --> 00:32:29.590
It's a big deal. But like, you know, he's just the mayor. He's not,

00:32:29.730 --> 00:32:32.750
he can't like implement the caliphate, right?

00:32:33.050 --> 00:32:37.110
Single-handedly. But it's a bellwether race, right, Erik? I think that's what's important.

00:32:37.550 --> 00:32:42.890
Oh, my God. If it can happen in New York, it can happen anywhere. Oh, my God.

00:32:43.130 --> 00:32:46.410
This guy who's against the billionaires is gaining traction.

00:32:46.630 --> 00:32:50.310
Oh, my God. We threw everything at him and it still didn't work.

00:32:50.450 --> 00:32:52.010
What's going to happen next?

00:32:52.250 --> 00:32:54.510
And that's why he's freaking out all the right people.

00:32:54.990 --> 00:33:00.850
And, you know, I remember the first person I ever voted for was Harold Washington

00:33:00.850 --> 00:33:03.710
to be the mayor of Chicago. And he became the first black mayor.

00:33:03.970 --> 00:33:11.130
And so when I look at Mamdani's campaign and the enthusiasm that the young people are, I was that kid.

00:33:11.570 --> 00:33:15.110
When Harold Washington ran, it was a youth for Washington. And it was like,

00:33:15.230 --> 00:33:18.630
you know, we didn't have TikTok and all that stuff, but we had buttons.

00:33:19.310 --> 00:33:22.910
So it was a fashion statement that you had a Harold Washington button on your

00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:27.990
jacket or your clothes or whatever. It was that kind of organic movement that

00:33:27.990 --> 00:33:29.750
propelled him to get in there.

00:33:29.990 --> 00:33:37.430
And I think that's what Mamdani, his campaign is just the 21st century version of that campaign.

00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:43.250
But my question about him is, will his campaign be the dawn of a new era of

00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:46.030
the Democratic Party or will it just be an outlier?

00:33:46.930 --> 00:33:52.610
You know, that's that is. So this is what remains to be seen, I think.

00:33:53.552 --> 00:33:58.792
What we're witnessing right now is a unspoken civil war within the Democratic

00:33:58.792 --> 00:34:02.112
Party for the future of the Democratic Party.

00:34:02.332 --> 00:34:04.352
And there's a massive vacancy in leadership.

00:34:04.792 --> 00:34:08.392
It's unspoken, but it's clear. It's there. And you're seeing the old guard.

00:34:08.512 --> 00:34:12.052
I'm not using the old as pejorative, but you're seeing the people who want business

00:34:12.052 --> 00:34:16.732
as usual, who still want to, you know, they're still sucking at the corporate teat.

00:34:16.992 --> 00:34:19.972
They still want their Wall Street money and AIPAC money.

00:34:19.972 --> 00:34:24.872
And then you're seeing this new generation, and again, new doesn't necessarily

00:34:24.872 --> 00:34:29.072
mean young, that says, nope, the old status quo must be broken,

00:34:29.072 --> 00:34:32.912
and we do not want restoration, we want reformation.

00:34:33.072 --> 00:34:36.812
And it's clear that the base is moving towards the latter.

00:34:37.072 --> 00:34:42.292
Now, I believe that the old guard will do everything in its power to crush and

00:34:42.292 --> 00:34:44.312
destroy the young guard.

00:34:44.472 --> 00:34:47.552
You're seeing it in real time. I'll give you an example, going back to Mamdani.

00:34:47.552 --> 00:34:52.992
To this day, as of this recording, it is almost comical that Schumer.

00:34:53.832 --> 00:34:57.372
Gillibrand, and Hakeem Jeffries have not endorsed Zohran Mamdani.

00:34:57.772 --> 00:35:01.212
It's clear that this guy is your friggin', you know, he went through the process,

00:35:01.232 --> 00:35:05.132
he won fair and square, he's the Democratic nominee, he's running as a Democrat.

00:35:05.412 --> 00:35:10.632
And they still haven't endorsed him, Erik, and it's a microcosm of this schism

00:35:10.632 --> 00:35:14.312
in the Democratic Party. So it's just a matter of when.

00:35:14.592 --> 00:35:18.392
I do think eventually they will have to bend the knee and come around.

00:35:18.412 --> 00:35:23.512
But the fact that they're dragging the feet is they're harming themselves and the party.

00:35:23.652 --> 00:35:27.172
And they're doing anything and everything they can to ensure that the AOC and

00:35:27.172 --> 00:35:30.352
the Jasmine Crockett's and the others don't ascend.

00:35:30.512 --> 00:35:32.752
It's just a matter of time, though. It's just a matter of when.

00:35:33.192 --> 00:35:36.412
Yeah, and Schumer's got a track record of that. I have a personal history with

00:35:36.412 --> 00:35:38.872
him as a Democratic nominee for the U.S.

00:35:38.952 --> 00:35:44.452
Senate. if it wasn't for the AFL-CIO, he wouldn't have came around in my race in 2008.

00:35:44.732 --> 00:35:48.812
And so I'm not surprised about him. I am surprised about Jeffries,

00:35:48.992 --> 00:35:53.252
considering that his brother's a historian by trade. It seems like.

00:35:53.885 --> 00:35:58.185
You need to lean on him as far as what train you need to get on when it comes to Mamdani.

00:35:58.685 --> 00:36:02.885
But did you see, did you see Kwame Jeffries? He's all over it, man.

00:36:03.165 --> 00:36:09.085
He's like, he's, he's been, he's, he's like all in from Mamdani.

00:36:09.325 --> 00:36:12.925
And meanwhile, Hakeem Jeffries is doing what he's doing. So it's, it's very interesting.

00:36:13.065 --> 00:36:18.805
It's not lost upon me that Hakeem, you know, Hakeem's brother is, is, is singing our tune.

00:36:19.225 --> 00:36:24.945
Yeah. Yeah. It's, I don't know, but again, Again, you've touched on it a lot

00:36:24.945 --> 00:36:27.565
when it comes down to money and all that kind of stuff.

00:36:27.765 --> 00:36:34.065
And, you know, that there's always a balance as far as being a black politician.

00:36:34.345 --> 00:36:38.925
And this could be a whole nother show. But, you know, having been there,

00:36:39.165 --> 00:36:43.505
it's like we're not in Congress, but being a state legislator, even.

00:36:43.985 --> 00:36:48.765
It's just that, you know, you you have this draw where it's like you want to

00:36:48.765 --> 00:36:53.165
you want to be embraced by the establishment. But you but you have to remember

00:36:53.165 --> 00:36:55.685
that none of those people voted for you.

00:36:55.945 --> 00:37:00.805
It was the people that voted for you. And so when the people's interests clash

00:37:00.805 --> 00:37:05.025
with the special interest, you always supposed to go with the people's interests,

00:37:05.185 --> 00:37:08.525
even if it is uncomfortable, even if it's a bumpy ride.

00:37:08.685 --> 00:37:13.205
So but anyway, like I said. And you were elected twice, right?

00:37:13.625 --> 00:37:18.525
Well, no, I was a state legislator for nine years, but I was a Democratic nominee

00:37:18.525 --> 00:37:22.345
twice in 2006 and 2008 for the U.S. Senate. Yes, sir.

00:37:22.885 --> 00:37:27.765
Yeah, and so, you know, and you've seen the shifts of the Democratic Party,

00:37:27.945 --> 00:37:31.325
and you've lived it, and we've seen it in our lifetime, right?

00:37:31.345 --> 00:37:34.345
This is no longer the Democratic Party of even Obama.

00:37:34.345 --> 00:37:37.645
And you can't blame folks because the people's

00:37:37.645 --> 00:37:40.365
needs are so numerous and these young

00:37:40.365 --> 00:37:43.725
people in particular if you look at the data it's just so sobering where

00:37:43.725 --> 00:37:48.305
they don't have faith they don't have faith in the american economy they don't

00:37:48.305 --> 00:37:51.105
have faith in american health care system they don't have faith for their own

00:37:51.105 --> 00:37:56.005
future so if you tell these young people just trust us and the institutions

00:37:56.005 --> 00:38:00.265
democracy capitalism they're like what has democracy done for me what has capitalism

00:38:00.265 --> 00:38:02.705
done for me? What have these institutions done for me? Nothing.

00:38:02.985 --> 00:38:05.845
So, which is why, you know, it's really interesting. And Biden...

00:38:06.443 --> 00:38:10.083
He evolved on certain issues. I give him credit and I criticize him because

00:38:10.083 --> 00:38:12.143
he didn't evolve in other issues, namely Palestine.

00:38:12.463 --> 00:38:16.303
But also when, you know, Joe Biden said, you know, this isn't who we are.

00:38:16.663 --> 00:38:21.423
I think a lot of people of color were like, this is kind of who we've always been.

00:38:21.663 --> 00:38:25.063
And then, you know, when Joe Biden was promoting these institutions and talk

00:38:25.063 --> 00:38:29.143
about restoration, I think it represented an old guard moment.

00:38:29.383 --> 00:38:33.943
He was out of step because for many of us, we're like, these institutions really

00:38:33.943 --> 00:38:36.743
haven't done much for the rest of us. They need to be reformed.

00:38:37.283 --> 00:38:40.643
Yeah. All right. I got a couple more questions. And I'm. Please.

00:38:41.083 --> 00:38:46.663
So New York Governor Hochul said that the Democrats and Republicans are officially at war.

00:38:47.063 --> 00:38:52.143
What's your take on that? We're at war with fascism. We have been at war with fascism for years.

00:38:52.503 --> 00:38:57.703
It's finally time that the Democrats are allegedly playing fire with fire to

00:38:57.703 --> 00:38:59.403
quote Ken Martin, the head of the DNC.

00:38:59.603 --> 00:39:02.223
I think it's a little, little, too little, too late.

00:39:02.803 --> 00:39:06.003
And furthermore, you know, they're saying we have to bring a knife to a knife fight.

00:39:06.203 --> 00:39:09.923
No, you got to bring a gun to a knife fight because Republicans are bringing a bazooka.

00:39:10.103 --> 00:39:13.843
I do not have, I'll give credit where credit's due, number one,

00:39:14.063 --> 00:39:17.263
that in response to Republicans openly cheating now.

00:39:17.503 --> 00:39:21.183
So folks, for those who aren't following the news, Donald Trump commanded Texas

00:39:21.183 --> 00:39:25.943
Republicans to just straight up steal five House seats through gerrymandering

00:39:25.943 --> 00:39:28.463
because they're afraid of losing the 2026 election.

00:39:28.463 --> 00:39:34.103
And furthermore, now they're going to Ohio and other states and telling the Republicans to do it.

00:39:34.203 --> 00:39:37.743
So I was just really happy to see that the governors of Illinois,

00:39:38.023 --> 00:39:41.363
California, and New York said, all right, mother effers, bring it.

00:39:41.683 --> 00:39:44.643
That's the way that should have been for 10 years. I'd still,

00:39:44.803 --> 00:39:47.063
I'll believe it when I see it, Erik.

00:39:47.343 --> 00:39:52.883
I feel like they're finally, finally kind of getting there, but so much damage has been done.

00:39:53.796 --> 00:39:56.716
But look, I'll encourage them.

00:39:56.916 --> 00:40:01.916
No one wants gerrymandering. It's terrible for democracy. But if you're fighting

00:40:01.916 --> 00:40:07.956
in right-wing authoritarian force that has no shame, does not care about the rule of law or civility,

00:40:08.516 --> 00:40:12.296
if you in response are being civil, you're going to die.

00:40:13.356 --> 00:40:16.596
So you know what? We live in more populous states.

00:40:16.936 --> 00:40:20.676
If they're going to gerrymander these red states, man, if California does it,

00:40:21.196 --> 00:40:23.836
it's, yeah. If California and New York do it, it's a wrap.

00:40:24.996 --> 00:40:29.916
Well, I relate. So real quick, a boxing reference.

00:40:30.396 --> 00:40:34.416
We've had these three fights with Serrano and Taylor, right?

00:40:35.836 --> 00:40:42.956
And Katie Taylor is a boxer. She is more of a jab, punch, to go to the body, all that.

00:40:43.036 --> 00:40:48.576
And Serrano is a straight up brawler. And so when Serrano came in there,

00:40:49.476 --> 00:40:51.916
you know, Katie Taylor had to change her fight.

00:40:52.296 --> 00:40:56.616
She had to she had to get in there and fight back. And and and that's what I

00:40:56.616 --> 00:41:01.096
think the Democrats have to do. The Democrats are trying to follow the rules

00:41:01.096 --> 00:41:03.536
and be gentlemen and ladies about this stuff.

00:41:03.976 --> 00:41:07.116
But it's like the Republicans are coming in, like you said, with bazookas.

00:41:07.236 --> 00:41:11.976
And it's like, hey, look, you know, it might be nice to slap the man in the

00:41:11.976 --> 00:41:14.176
face with the glove first before you start to duel.

00:41:14.336 --> 00:41:19.156
But right now, we need to be really slapping these people. We need to do some damage.

00:41:19.416 --> 00:41:23.076
So, yeah. Or like, or like, what does the parliamentarian say about this?

00:41:23.156 --> 00:41:24.556
Like, who gives it? Who cares, bro?

00:41:25.436 --> 00:41:28.736
Like, you know, and like, maybe we should be civil.

00:41:28.916 --> 00:41:31.976
Nope. If they go low, you take them out by their knees. You take them out.

00:41:32.036 --> 00:41:34.096
That's a legal, that's a legal move in UFC.

00:41:34.356 --> 00:41:37.556
You take, they go low. You can take their knees out. That's right.

00:41:37.956 --> 00:41:39.816
All right. Final question. And, and.

00:41:40.751 --> 00:41:44.531
Because I've listened to you for a long time, I know that you're a man of faith.

00:41:44.691 --> 00:41:47.771
So I wanted to throw this question at you to close out.

00:41:48.151 --> 00:41:52.731
When all is said and done, which concept will have suffered the most damage

00:41:52.731 --> 00:41:56.411
in America, democracy or organized religion?

00:41:57.311 --> 00:42:00.671
Ooh, that's a very good question. That's a very good question.

00:42:01.431 --> 00:42:02.751
You're making me choose.

00:42:04.091 --> 00:42:08.291
Well, while you are thinking? Let me throw out mine. I think organized religion

00:42:08.291 --> 00:42:10.611
is going to suffer more than democracy.

00:42:11.591 --> 00:42:19.351
Why? I've watched people, you know, especially on the progressive side,

00:42:19.671 --> 00:42:26.251
really, really start, you know, questioning about religion as an institution.

00:42:26.251 --> 00:42:30.251
And they're saying that, well, if the evangelical Christians think that Donald

00:42:30.251 --> 00:42:33.471
Trump is the guy, is Christianity all that?

00:42:33.611 --> 00:42:36.551
And I've seen that with young white folks, young black folks,

00:42:36.731 --> 00:42:43.271
everybody, right? Some of our most articulate and staunch warriors on this side

00:42:43.271 --> 00:42:46.631
of the aisle, like Jennifer Welch and all them, are about atheists.

00:42:47.111 --> 00:42:54.211
And they're saying, this is the reason why I don't believe is because all this religion.

00:42:54.351 --> 00:43:02.391
And so we've seen over the last decade that younger people are starting to go

00:43:02.391 --> 00:43:04.091
away from religion. So I think...

00:43:05.121 --> 00:43:10.681
The politics is going to eventually heal itself. And it may not be the democracy

00:43:10.681 --> 00:43:14.261
we grew up with, but it's still going to be, we're still going to have elections.

00:43:14.261 --> 00:43:16.841
We're still going to elect the president and all these other folks.

00:43:17.141 --> 00:43:20.681
But I'm worried about religion. As somebody that's a Christian,

00:43:20.861 --> 00:43:23.421
you're a Muslim, we're devout people.

00:43:24.001 --> 00:43:27.981
And I'm just worried about the next generations of those folks.

00:43:28.321 --> 00:43:32.621
I think organized religion is going to take more of a hit than democracy.

00:43:32.621 --> 00:43:39.621
I agree with you, especially as organized religion has been seen as an institution

00:43:39.621 --> 00:43:46.541
of oppression and organized religion has been co-opted by fraudsters and politicians

00:43:46.541 --> 00:43:50.501
to weaken and divide this country along culture wars.

00:43:50.501 --> 00:43:53.861
And especially as organized religion increasingly is

00:43:53.861 --> 00:43:57.181
seen as a tool of the state to deprive the

00:43:57.181 --> 00:44:00.421
marginalized their rights to go against you know women and lgbtq

00:44:00.421 --> 00:44:03.101
and also the poor right and also attack you know

00:44:03.101 --> 00:44:05.921
education and public schools and science and climate change

00:44:05.921 --> 00:44:09.061
research and so i don't blame so many

00:44:09.061 --> 00:44:11.861
people like you young people who are like man what

00:44:11.861 --> 00:44:15.001
has organized religion given me except pain and heartache i

00:44:15.001 --> 00:44:17.801
don't blame them at all and and at the same time though

00:44:17.801 --> 00:44:20.701
even as people are leaving organized religion and becoming

00:44:20.701 --> 00:44:23.541
you know the nuns n-o-n-e-s you're still

00:44:23.541 --> 00:44:26.361
seeing people desperately trying to find something some meaning some

00:44:26.361 --> 00:44:29.461
purpose some narrative some community some sense of belonging so

00:44:29.461 --> 00:44:33.621
it's not that people have stopped becoming spiritual what's so fascinating is

00:44:33.621 --> 00:44:37.401
they're still in search there's something within the human psyche right the

00:44:37.401 --> 00:44:41.821
human soul that wants to connect to something deeper but organized religion

00:44:41.821 --> 00:44:46.721
i do think has unfortunately become a tool or perhaps has been used and abused as a tool.

00:44:47.721 --> 00:44:51.381
Of injustice in this country. And that's why I don't blame these young people.

00:44:51.621 --> 00:44:55.681
Even though you and me are in it, I do not blame young people and others for

00:44:55.681 --> 00:44:58.961
being so jaded and cynical. Alright, so.

00:44:59.890 --> 00:45:03.670
This is the time of the program where you make your pitch. You tell people how

00:45:03.670 --> 00:45:06.570
they can reach out to you and all that stuff. So go ahead and do your thing.

00:45:07.210 --> 00:45:11.170
You can follow me on the left hook. It's my sub stack. It's the left hook dot

00:45:11.170 --> 00:45:14.690
sub stack dot com. There are no paywalls. Just become a subscriber.

00:45:14.870 --> 00:45:18.790
If you have a few bucks, send it my way. I got a couple of kids and I co-host

00:45:18.790 --> 00:45:22.570
Democracy-ish on Monday and Friday, 12 p.m.

00:45:22.770 --> 00:45:27.350
Eastern time with the fantabulous Danielle Moodie on her Danielle Moodie YouTube

00:45:27.350 --> 00:45:31.590
channel. You know, come give us a come give us a look. I think you'll enjoy it.

00:45:31.790 --> 00:45:34.850
We keep it real. We keep it honest. We don't bend the knee to anyone.

00:45:34.850 --> 00:45:36.090
It's completely independent.

00:45:36.490 --> 00:45:41.350
And then Eric was kind enough to quote from my book. And my book came out a couple of years ago.

00:45:41.490 --> 00:45:44.970
It's called Go Back to Where You Came From and other helpful recommendations

00:45:44.970 --> 00:45:46.150
on how to become American.

00:45:46.930 --> 00:45:52.030
Well, Wajahat Ali, again, it's an honor and it's been a pleasure to talk to you directly.

00:45:52.450 --> 00:45:57.090
Like I said, I've been a fan and I know that self-deprecation is part of your

00:45:57.090 --> 00:46:03.030
humor, but you are one of the very special people we have here in the United States.

00:46:03.030 --> 00:46:07.470
You're one of the clear voices that people need to hear.

00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:13.190
I encourage everybody that listens to my podcast to pay attention to what's

00:46:13.190 --> 00:46:17.630
going on with the left hook and democracy-ish and anything that you appear on.

00:46:18.070 --> 00:46:20.910
Because, like I said, I'm a fan.

00:46:22.530 --> 00:46:28.530
And I always love people smarter than me. So I greatly appreciate that you're on my team.

00:46:30.870 --> 00:46:36.850
And I wish you much success and continued blessings on your family and everything

00:46:36.850 --> 00:46:40.730
that you do because you're special and we need you. So thank you for coming.

00:46:40.970 --> 00:46:45.030
You have excellent taste and you're very kind and I don't know what to do with

00:46:45.030 --> 00:46:49.670
compliments because I'm a child of immigrants. So I'll say I'm okay, but thank you.

00:46:49.810 --> 00:46:54.230
Thank you for that. I appreciate it. And thank you for reaching out to me. Let's do this again.

00:46:54.470 --> 00:46:58.030
Yes, sir. Well, that's the rule now since you've accepted the invitation.

00:46:58.030 --> 00:46:59.890
Anytime you want to come on, you have an open,

00:47:01.088 --> 00:47:04.008
I love it, man. Let's do it. We're going to make that happen. All right, guys.

00:47:04.240 --> 00:47:22.480
Music.

00:47:04.288 --> 00:47:10.148
And we'll catch y'all on the other side. We'll be right back.

00:47:24.808 --> 00:47:32.548
All right. And we are back. And so now it's time for my next guest, Richard Rick Roberts.

00:47:32.968 --> 00:47:37.508
Rick Roberts is a specialist professor in the Department of Economics and Finance

00:47:37.508 --> 00:47:42.728
and Real Estate at Monmouth University, teaching courses in a variety of areas,

00:47:43.048 --> 00:47:46.528
importantly macroeconomics and money and banking.

00:47:46.988 --> 00:47:50.808
Rick is a former 20-year executive of the Federal Reserve System.

00:47:51.448 --> 00:47:55.308
Across his tenure, he headed the New York Central Bank's credit risk management

00:47:55.308 --> 00:47:57.428
during the 2008 financial crisis,

00:47:58.248 --> 00:48:03.928
led the payment systems risk area, chaired key system committees on counterparty

00:48:03.928 --> 00:48:05.548
risk identification and mitigation,

00:48:05.928 --> 00:48:11.568
and oversaw the preparation of FOMC monetary policy briefing materials for the

00:48:11.568 --> 00:48:13.488
president of the Kansas City Reserve Bank.

00:48:14.248 --> 00:48:18.708
Moreover, he took a brief break from the Fed in the early 2000s to start and

00:48:18.708 --> 00:48:21.428
run a boutique subprime mortgage hedge fund.

00:48:21.948 --> 00:48:26.288
Rick has published a variety of articles on topics including monetary policy,

00:48:26.768 --> 00:48:30.228
money and banking, and the U.S. economic outlook.

00:48:30.588 --> 00:48:36.468
His 2016 book, Firewood Held, was a top 20 business book in China.

00:48:37.128 --> 00:48:41.468
He holds an MBA with honors from Columbia University and an economics degree

00:48:41.468 --> 00:48:44.108
with high honors from Pennsylvania State University.

00:48:44.828 --> 00:48:49.168
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:48:49.168 --> 00:48:52.328
again on this podcast, Rick.

00:48:52.880 --> 00:49:02.640
Music.

00:49:04.164 --> 00:49:11.844
All right. My good friend, my economist in residence, Rick Roberts. How are you doing, sir?

00:49:12.484 --> 00:49:16.304
Erik, doing great. Great to be back. Well, I'm glad to have you.

00:49:16.464 --> 00:49:19.064
I was glad to be able to get you lined up for this.

00:49:19.284 --> 00:49:23.864
And it looks like the timing is perfect, as always, because,

00:49:24.084 --> 00:49:26.804
I mean, anytime we're dealing with the economy.

00:49:28.124 --> 00:49:31.164
It's like with where we are now it's it's

00:49:31.164 --> 00:49:34.624
always going seems like a roller coaster so let me

00:49:34.624 --> 00:49:40.024
get your take on this particular quote as we start the icebreaker part chill

00:49:40.024 --> 00:49:44.644
the american economy needs the world and the world needs the american economy

00:49:44.644 --> 00:49:51.404
what's your take on that quote absolutely i think that's seems seems a spot

00:49:51.404 --> 00:49:54.144
on i mean the u.s economy is,

00:49:55.004 --> 00:49:58.684
certainly the most productive, depending on how you measure it,

00:49:58.784 --> 00:50:00.484
the largest economy in the world.

00:50:00.744 --> 00:50:05.264
And, you know, as it goes, much of the world goes.

00:50:05.524 --> 00:50:10.064
However, increasingly, the U.S. economy, less so under Trump,

00:50:10.524 --> 00:50:13.004
is reliant on what's going on overseas.

00:50:13.384 --> 00:50:17.584
So we need, you know, it's two sides of a coin, right?

00:50:18.184 --> 00:50:23.384
Yeah, yeah. And that was, I kind of expected that's where you're going to go

00:50:23.384 --> 00:50:27.684
with that because, you know, I guess when this quote was done,

00:50:28.044 --> 00:50:31.324
it was, it was definitely before Trump was president.

00:50:31.984 --> 00:50:37.724
And so, you know, as we get into the interview, we'll touch on that a little bit.

00:50:38.404 --> 00:50:46.304
So I introduced this thing called 20 questions. So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

00:50:47.164 --> 00:50:53.284
Okay. Seven. Okay. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about

00:50:53.284 --> 00:50:56.524
politics, current events, health, the economy, etc.

00:50:56.984 --> 00:51:03.464
In my judgment, the best way for someone to stay informed across those topics

00:51:03.464 --> 00:51:07.384
would be to read and read a variety,

00:51:08.184 --> 00:51:12.424
read information on those topics from a variety of sources.

00:51:12.784 --> 00:51:22.284
If you're more of a liberal-leaning individual, certainly read your favorite liberal media sources,

00:51:22.704 --> 00:51:28.504
but don't be hesitant to take a look at the other side of the coin as well.

00:51:28.704 --> 00:51:32.624
Similarly, if you're more conservative and you're bent, you know,

00:51:32.764 --> 00:51:37.584
read those sites and so forth, but don't put a blind eye to the opposite side.

00:51:37.724 --> 00:51:42.964
Sometimes you'd be surprised if what you might learn by opening your eye to

00:51:42.964 --> 00:51:50.584
that other side of the story that you tend to not really consider yourself part of.

00:51:51.501 --> 00:51:54.681
I agree with that. Totally. You got it. You got to be able to,

00:51:54.941 --> 00:51:59.681
even if you just want to understand the argument, right? You need to pay attention

00:51:59.681 --> 00:52:01.521
to the other side. Absolutely.

00:52:01.981 --> 00:52:06.101
I mean, if you're going to effectively communicate your position,

00:52:06.101 --> 00:52:11.741
it's always helpful to understand what the other folks are thinking or how they may respond.

00:52:12.001 --> 00:52:18.081
So it's at a minimum, that's a benefit. And then going out in terms of the benefits,

00:52:18.081 --> 00:52:19.781
occasionally you'll pick up

00:52:19.781 --> 00:52:23.941
something, you know, I mean, maybe I just hadn't thought of it like that.

00:52:24.301 --> 00:52:30.241
Exactly. We all should be, I mean, myself included, keep an open mind to things

00:52:30.241 --> 00:52:35.141
and occasionally something will pop up and teach us, right? Yes, sir.

00:52:35.721 --> 00:52:41.461
All right. President Trump inherited a relatively strong economy when he took office on January 20th.

00:52:41.621 --> 00:52:44.521
A little more than six months in where is

00:52:44.521 --> 00:52:47.741
the economy now i think you

00:52:47.741 --> 00:52:50.981
know the economy's healthy it's still

00:52:50.981 --> 00:52:54.601
strong it's clearly slowing a

00:52:54.601 --> 00:53:02.761
bit but a a a recession at least at this point appears unlikely i mean part

00:53:02.761 --> 00:53:09.461
of this slowing of the economy was brought on in my opinion by by president

00:53:09.461 --> 00:53:14.021
trump in terms of him being unclear, you know,

00:53:14.201 --> 00:53:17.641
and threatening with a lot of his tariff policies.

00:53:18.181 --> 00:53:23.121
And businesses, I guess I'd say, you know, sat tight.

00:53:23.341 --> 00:53:26.161
You know, if we don't understand what's going on on the landscape,

00:53:26.161 --> 00:53:31.321
we better sit tight until we understand it. And so they didn't hire.

00:53:31.801 --> 00:53:37.501
And we see some of this in terms of the recent employment numbers were not particularly attractive.

00:53:37.501 --> 00:53:42.021
They were revised downward in part because of this, you know,

00:53:42.201 --> 00:53:43.621
let's just sit tight until we

00:53:43.621 --> 00:53:46.961
understand what the president and his policies are going to mean for us.

00:53:47.101 --> 00:53:51.741
So I guess I'd say is, you know, again, the economy is slowing down a bit,

00:53:51.981 --> 00:53:58.601
but nothing alarming, unlike what much of the press would is kind of preaching

00:53:58.601 --> 00:54:01.361
right now that the sky is falling.

00:54:01.361 --> 00:54:06.261
I don't see that, but I do think it's slowing down, but I think the risk of

00:54:06.261 --> 00:54:10.261
a recession here over the near term is pretty small.

00:54:10.641 --> 00:54:15.581
Well, that's good. That's good to hear. And, you know, better your judgment

00:54:15.581 --> 00:54:18.841
than mine on it, on that deal.

00:54:19.221 --> 00:54:24.461
As a former employee of the Federal Reserve, what is your take on the feud between

00:54:24.461 --> 00:54:27.281
Chairman Powell and President Trump?

00:54:28.078 --> 00:54:33.098
It's interesting, right? So these feuds, and you're right, I was at the Fed for a long time.

00:54:33.418 --> 00:54:35.878
She's 20 plus years across three

00:54:35.878 --> 00:54:41.318
different Federal Reserve banks through a number of crises and so forth.

00:54:41.478 --> 00:54:48.258
But, you know, across many administrations, these disagreements between the

00:54:48.258 --> 00:54:55.798
executive branch, the president and the Federal Reserve happen often across all administrations.

00:54:55.798 --> 00:55:01.218
It's just the way those disagreements manifest themselves, as with many things

00:55:01.218 --> 00:55:04.858
under President Trump, totally different, totally differently.

00:55:05.298 --> 00:55:12.478
He just goes out and tweets his opinion of the chair and his policies.

00:55:13.358 --> 00:55:18.838
Chairman Powell cut interest rates. You're always too late in cutting and so forth.

00:55:18.838 --> 00:55:22.718
He gets out there and tells the public, maybe in previous administrations,

00:55:22.718 --> 00:55:26.978
I've seen this, you know, communicate it, you know, maybe a like feeling,

00:55:27.238 --> 00:55:32.378
communicate it in a more, I don't want to say professional,

00:55:32.598 --> 00:55:36.798
but I will in a more professional or at least historic manner in that,

00:55:36.938 --> 00:55:44.298
you know, a staffer of the president's would contact a staffer of the Federal

00:55:44.298 --> 00:55:49.298
Reserve chair and, you know, do some mumbling over a couple drinks or, whatever,

00:55:49.898 --> 00:55:54.258
you know, it's not out in the public domain for everybody to look at,

00:55:54.318 --> 00:55:56.298
you know, but Trump does things differently.

00:55:56.578 --> 00:56:00.778
I think the public knows what he's all about. We had four years of them already

00:56:00.778 --> 00:56:05.498
doing, doing things differently and they voted them in again and he's going

00:56:05.498 --> 00:56:06.698
to continue to do the same.

00:56:06.878 --> 00:56:13.578
And one of them is criticize chairman Powell for keeping interest rates too high.

00:56:13.758 --> 00:56:18.038
Now, historically, let me mention a couple other things on that question,

00:56:18.158 --> 00:56:22.798
which is a great question, by the way, because it is in the press and so forth.

00:56:24.189 --> 00:56:34.649
Historically, the Fed was developed as an entity to be independent of politicians.

00:56:35.869 --> 00:56:40.689
Federal Reserve workers are not federal government workers. They just happen

00:56:40.689 --> 00:56:46.669
to have the word federal in their title, Federal Reserve, but not everything

00:56:46.669 --> 00:56:48.989
with federal in their title are federal workers.

00:56:49.189 --> 00:56:53.309
For example, the Federal Express isn't federal workers. It's the Federal Reserve.

00:56:53.309 --> 00:56:57.489
And they are a, I guess what I call a quasi-governmental agency,

00:56:57.489 --> 00:57:01.909
but they're set up to be independent from Congress and the president.

00:57:02.109 --> 00:57:09.549
And the reason is, the reason is because we don't, the developers of the Fed

00:57:09.549 --> 00:57:11.589
prudently, in my judgment,

00:57:11.809 --> 00:57:16.189
thought we don't want the Fed reporting to the government, government officials,

00:57:16.269 --> 00:57:19.049
because government officials.

00:57:19.849 --> 00:57:23.589
I'm being loose with the language, and some of this is my personal opinion,

00:57:23.729 --> 00:57:30.629
but government officials are focused importantly on keeping their constituents

00:57:30.629 --> 00:57:34.389
happy because that ensures they stay in office, right?

00:57:34.389 --> 00:57:37.369
So they want to keep their constituents happy.

00:57:37.409 --> 00:57:44.289
And what keeps constituents more happier than keeping interest rates low?

00:57:45.289 --> 00:57:51.609
Okay, so the government has a bent to keeping interest rates low.

00:57:51.829 --> 00:57:57.469
And in fact, if the Fed reported to the government, the boss,

00:57:57.609 --> 00:58:02.089
the government in that hypothetical would be picking up the phone and ordering

00:58:02.089 --> 00:58:03.769
the Fed, hey, I'm your boss.

00:58:03.789 --> 00:58:07.309
Just like, you know, your listeners, your boss tells you something,

00:58:07.449 --> 00:58:09.629
you tend to do it if you want to keep your job, right?

00:58:09.629 --> 00:58:14.189
So if the government was the Fed's boss, they would call up and say,

00:58:14.289 --> 00:58:19.149
we want lower interest rates, you know, in the interest of them pleasing their constituents.

00:58:19.249 --> 00:58:24.089
And lower interest rates are not always the best for the economy.

00:58:24.549 --> 00:58:33.229
So, for example, lower interest rates burn or cause additional spending to happen in the economy.

00:58:33.609 --> 00:58:36.569
Sometimes that's good. Sometimes that's bad.

00:58:36.569 --> 00:58:41.909
When we have a lot of inflation going on, as we did, we squeezed a lot of it

00:58:41.909 --> 00:58:46.849
out now, but during COVID, we don't want a whole lot more spending going on

00:58:46.849 --> 00:58:49.389
because it's going to cause inflation to go higher.

00:58:49.609 --> 00:58:54.149
So the Fed keeps an eye on all that, kind of the economic stuff.

00:58:54.829 --> 00:58:56.929
And if they report it to...

00:58:58.245 --> 00:59:03.565
The president and Congress, the executive folks in the legislative branch,

00:59:03.745 --> 00:59:10.085
they would be raising interest or lowering interest rates too often and causing

00:59:10.085 --> 00:59:12.985
much too much inflation in the economy.

00:59:13.125 --> 00:59:15.645
So that's why they were set up to be separate.

00:59:16.065 --> 00:59:21.205
So, you know, Trump doesn't boss Jerome Powell around.

00:59:21.205 --> 00:59:26.405
It's not set up like that, although he's free to express his opinion.

00:59:26.405 --> 00:59:32.405
And he does in a manner as other presidents have, frankly, but in a different

00:59:32.405 --> 00:59:36.765
manner. So it's out in the public domain. So you and I can talk more about it.

00:59:37.405 --> 00:59:41.585
Yeah. Yeah. It's more, it's, it's not as nuanced, I think was the word that

00:59:41.585 --> 00:59:43.145
you were trying to look for. Yeah.

00:59:43.685 --> 00:59:48.705
Right. As it is now. Yeah. It's not as nuanced. And well, what,

00:59:48.845 --> 00:59:50.605
how about the issue he's barking about?

00:59:50.765 --> 00:59:55.145
Maybe he's not barking about it, you know, as others have, but what about the

00:59:55.145 --> 00:59:56.685
essence of what he's barking about.

00:59:56.865 --> 01:00:00.365
We want lower interest rates. And I think the Fed is saying,

01:00:00.785 --> 01:00:07.605
you know, we've really taken a beating with inflation over the last few years.

01:00:07.825 --> 01:00:12.545
Although it's much lower than it has been, there's still signs that it's above

01:00:12.545 --> 01:00:16.085
where it needs to be and might be increasing again.

01:00:16.545 --> 01:00:24.645
We really want to make sure we squeeze inflation out of the economy before we lower interest rates.

01:00:25.305 --> 01:00:29.685
And by the way, you know, the economy is going strong. So it's not like we need

01:00:29.685 --> 01:00:33.285
to lower interest rates to help the economy overall. It's going OK.

01:00:33.565 --> 01:00:38.545
So I think that's kind of the essence of the point that Trump's raising.

01:00:38.705 --> 01:00:40.045
He wants interest rates lower.

01:00:40.285 --> 01:00:42.905
The Fed's saying maybe not yet.

01:00:43.265 --> 01:00:47.765
We still have inflation to fight. The economy is pretty strong. What's the rush?

01:00:48.285 --> 01:00:53.025
And that's where that issue stands. Although some people from the Fed who are

01:00:53.025 --> 01:00:54.665
voting on interest rates, the

01:00:54.665 --> 01:01:02.565
Trump appointees are saying that interest rates should probably be cut.

01:01:02.725 --> 01:01:07.605
In the last Fed meeting of a couple of weeks ago, we saw a number of Fed officials.

01:01:07.925 --> 01:01:13.485
Importantly, those appointed by Trump said, you know what, let's start cutting rates again. Yeah.

01:01:14.368 --> 01:01:19.648
And that's where that's where he left it. So I suspect, you know, we'll see.

01:01:19.748 --> 01:01:22.828
Let's see what the data bring over the next month or so.

01:01:22.988 --> 01:01:28.268
But I'd suspect that the Fed's probably getting pretty close to cutting rates once again.

01:01:28.768 --> 01:01:33.508
All right. So President Trump has had a passion for tariffs,

01:01:33.968 --> 01:01:35.508
weak dollar and low interest rates.

01:01:35.648 --> 01:01:40.528
If he gets his heart's desire, what would that mean to the average American consumer?

01:01:41.028 --> 01:01:44.908
Well, I think it's going to, you know, the risk is those tariffs,

01:01:45.188 --> 01:01:50.948
even the negotiated problem, the negotiated levels, he's come out with a number

01:01:50.948 --> 01:01:54.108
of deals now, signing the paperwork and so forth.

01:01:54.308 --> 01:01:58.148
Even the levels, the new levels that are agreed to, although lower than the

01:01:58.148 --> 01:02:03.448
initially threatened ones, are still higher than they've been in the past.

01:02:03.448 --> 01:02:11.408
And as we've talked about before, Erik, that higher tariffs mean higher prices

01:02:11.408 --> 01:02:17.268
for American consumers that import goods from overseas.

01:02:17.268 --> 01:02:21.968
So even though these tariffs are not as high as Trump threatened initially,

01:02:21.968 --> 01:02:25.068
they're still higher than they have been.

01:02:25.068 --> 01:02:29.928
So the typical person is going to see kind of to that point where you're talking

01:02:29.928 --> 01:02:33.568
about, should they cut rates or not? The typical person is going to say,

01:02:33.568 --> 01:02:37.948
you know, inflation bump up a notch because of this.

01:02:38.708 --> 01:02:42.588
Yeah. So what would be the lasting

01:02:42.588 --> 01:02:48.848
impact with the president's mass deportation policy on the economy?

01:02:48.848 --> 01:02:53.108
It's like the Brookings Institute is saying that the GDP is going to drop a

01:02:53.108 --> 01:02:55.068
half a point during this year.

01:02:55.268 --> 01:03:00.368
The Peterson Institute for International Economics is saying that mass deportations

01:03:00.368 --> 01:03:06.228
is going to push prices for American goods up by over 9% by 2028.

01:03:06.428 --> 01:03:08.968
What's your thought on that? Do you agree with those assessments?

01:03:10.407 --> 01:03:15.967
Let's talk about prices, okay? Let's talk about prices.

01:03:16.307 --> 01:03:20.847
If we're deporting, and let's keep it pretty simple. I tend to think in simple

01:03:20.847 --> 01:03:23.307
terms, even as a professor.

01:03:23.567 --> 01:03:30.467
But if we're deporting a lot of workers that are doing jobs that are important

01:03:30.467 --> 01:03:37.907
to our economy, although many of them at lower levels, who's going to fill these jobs, right?

01:03:37.907 --> 01:03:42.387
Who's cleaning the hotel rooms?

01:03:42.827 --> 01:03:50.007
Who's, and not to be stereotypical, but these are many of the jobs that those being deported held.

01:03:50.547 --> 01:03:56.247
Who's picking crops? These are important jobs.

01:03:57.167 --> 01:04:01.847
Why are undocumented individuals doing these jobs?

01:04:02.047 --> 01:04:06.987
Because nobody else wants to, or at least wants to at the wages that they're being paid.

01:04:06.987 --> 01:04:12.867
So if they vacate these jobs They still have to get done We still need to pick

01:04:12.867 --> 01:04:19.327
crops We still need to clean hotel rooms And other things of that sort You know what I'm saying.

01:04:20.688 --> 01:04:26.248
How are we going to fill those jobs? Nobody wanted them before at the wages they were being paid.

01:04:26.448 --> 01:04:34.288
So to fill those jobs, employers will have to raise wages to attract people to do those jobs.

01:04:34.288 --> 01:04:39.728
And that leads to inflation in the economy.

01:04:39.728 --> 01:04:46.028
Okay, so I think, you know, certainly a decrease in the labor supply,

01:04:46.028 --> 01:04:53.908
the number of workers available, increases the prices of those remaining workers.

01:04:53.908 --> 01:04:57.988
It's like it's a labor market, just like a grocery market.

01:04:57.988 --> 01:05:03.728
If you have less of a supply of something, just say there's an orange crop freeze

01:05:03.728 --> 01:05:09.048
and there's a less supply of orange juice in the grocery store.

01:05:09.328 --> 01:05:15.728
The price of the remaining orange juices that are being sold goes up because supply goes down.

01:05:15.988 --> 01:05:19.868
Same thing with workers. If there's less of a supply of workers.

01:05:20.808 --> 01:05:25.268
Right, the price of the remaining workers, right, that goes up.

01:05:25.408 --> 01:05:29.208
So we'd see, you know, some inflation on that front.

01:05:29.768 --> 01:05:37.368
And this is going to bleed its way through to some flowing of the economy in

01:05:37.368 --> 01:05:38.728
terms of economic growth.

01:05:38.728 --> 01:05:43.088
I don't have a specific number in mind, but they're two reputable,

01:05:43.088 --> 01:05:47.608
you know, think tanks that you that you reference there.

01:05:47.788 --> 01:05:52.788
And I won't think that they'd be wildly different from what from what they're saying.

01:05:53.128 --> 01:05:55.548
I don't think it's the end of the world. We're going to get through it,

01:05:55.628 --> 01:05:57.528
but it is going to have some impact on us.

01:05:58.008 --> 01:06:02.708
So we were talking before and you were saying something about some concerns

01:06:02.708 --> 01:06:05.788
you were seeing as far as young people in jobs.

01:06:06.368 --> 01:06:15.928
I do. I do. You know, what we're starting to see now is, let me make two points about the labor market.

01:06:16.108 --> 01:06:22.208
We're starting to see that the unemployment rate for recent college grads,

01:06:22.268 --> 01:06:28.668
let's just say, I don't know, 20 to 24 year olds or something like that, okay,

01:06:29.148 --> 01:06:31.468
is higher than,

01:06:31.923 --> 01:06:37.743
than it's ever been. And it's going higher. It's much higher than the overall

01:06:37.743 --> 01:06:40.283
population's unemployment rate.

01:06:40.423 --> 01:06:42.783
And the question is, why is that?

01:06:43.163 --> 01:06:47.503
And initial research, and I'm messing around with this topic a little bit as

01:06:47.503 --> 01:06:56.543
well, but initial research suggests that this is, you know, an impact of AI.

01:06:57.163 --> 01:07:05.563
It's the impact of AI. AI is starting to eat away at those, let's call them,

01:07:05.683 --> 01:07:07.303
and not demeaning them at all,

01:07:07.503 --> 01:07:13.003
but entry-level jobs that new college grads typically go into.

01:07:13.003 --> 01:07:18.563
They're not particularly souped up in terms of the skill set they need, Right.

01:07:18.703 --> 01:07:21.783
It's kind of more training ground, the basics, that type stuff.

01:07:22.263 --> 01:07:27.363
AI is now able to do a lot of that stuff. So those jobs aren't there.

01:07:27.863 --> 01:07:33.663
And we're starting to see the unemployment rate for college grads go up.

01:07:34.123 --> 01:07:39.883
Okay. So that's one, that's one change. It's tougher to find employment coming

01:07:39.883 --> 01:07:45.403
out of a four-year school now, or even a, even a two-year school with an associate's degree.

01:07:45.923 --> 01:07:51.483
All right. And then another issue is, well, let me see if you have any questions

01:07:51.483 --> 01:07:53.043
on that. Does that make sense?

01:07:53.243 --> 01:07:59.303
AI is taking away the lower level jobs that college grads typically grabbed

01:07:59.303 --> 01:08:02.663
coming right out of school.

01:08:03.283 --> 01:08:08.223
Well, you know, not so much a question, but it's just like, you know,

01:08:08.323 --> 01:08:09.943
it kind of ties in what we were talking about.

01:08:10.023 --> 01:08:14.123
Because if we're losing people through mass deportation, right?

01:08:14.123 --> 01:08:19.983
We're losing people in the two main industries, which is agriculture and construction

01:08:19.983 --> 01:08:22.863
and not even getting the hospitality. Right.

01:08:22.963 --> 01:08:27.703
But you touched on a little bit. And then if we're if we're seeing a higher

01:08:27.703 --> 01:08:32.383
level of unemployment with folks that are going to college,

01:08:32.843 --> 01:08:37.823
right, whether they're, you know, naturalized citizens or birthright citizens,

01:08:37.823 --> 01:08:41.643
if they're having problems getting hired.

01:08:41.643 --> 01:08:45.323
And then that kind of ties into the earlier part of the conversation where we

01:08:45.323 --> 01:08:50.203
were saying that people are not hiring folks because they're a little uncertain

01:08:50.203 --> 01:08:52.623
about what the president is going to do with the economy.

01:08:53.583 --> 01:08:58.583
I mean, it's just, it all ties in as far as I'm concerned. It does.

01:08:58.883 --> 01:09:01.403
It does. And the picture is...

01:09:01.802 --> 01:09:05.302
Seems not to be particularly pretty for those.

01:09:05.582 --> 01:09:10.402
And these are macro numbers, you know, so, you know, averages and big numbers

01:09:10.402 --> 01:09:13.542
like that, there's doesn't apply to every single person.

01:09:13.542 --> 01:09:17.302
So it doesn't, this doesn't apply to every single college student,

01:09:17.302 --> 01:09:22.782
but certainly in certain industries, the impact is, is greater than other ones.

01:09:22.782 --> 01:09:27.442
But, you know, when I was at the Fed in the, in the, During the financial crisis,

01:09:27.442 --> 01:09:31.702
in the wake of the 2009 recession,

01:09:31.962 --> 01:09:35.742
there was a real push to have young people who were struggling in the job market

01:09:35.742 --> 01:09:38.742
to go back to school and get some more credentials, right?

01:09:38.982 --> 01:09:44.442
And then, you know, that's seeming, that story's kind of falling flat on its face right now.

01:09:44.562 --> 01:09:47.182
But it's not, this is kind of interesting.

01:09:47.442 --> 01:09:52.762
It's not just college kids that are being impacted.

01:09:52.762 --> 01:09:58.622
It's not just college kids that are being impacted. There's this issue going

01:09:58.622 --> 01:10:04.642
on where that phenomena that we're talking about, AI grabs the jobs.

01:10:04.942 --> 01:10:10.402
And so college kids don't have jobs as much as they formerly did.

01:10:10.402 --> 01:10:12.262
It's what we're saying up to this point.

01:10:12.282 --> 01:10:19.082
But this also impacts workers without degrees, okay?

01:10:19.082 --> 01:10:26.782
While workers with degrees aren't necessarily landing jobs, we have this inflated

01:10:26.782 --> 01:10:30.742
degree requirement phenomena that's going on.

01:10:30.902 --> 01:10:35.222
In fact, Harvard put out a decent paper. I'll send it to you,

01:10:35.282 --> 01:10:40.402
maybe if you want to post it somewhere, saying that because of this inflated

01:10:40.402 --> 01:10:45.762
education requirements, this issue is impacting people without degrees.

01:10:45.762 --> 01:10:50.202
And let me tell you, what's happening now is we have this pool of college kids,

01:10:50.202 --> 01:10:54.482
you know, they can't find work. Right. And they need work.

01:10:55.383 --> 01:11:02.323
So what they're doing then, what companies are doing is asking for college degrees

01:11:02.323 --> 01:11:08.983
to do these positions that formerly didn't require college degrees.

01:11:08.983 --> 01:11:15.363
So, for example, I saw data that

01:11:15.363 --> 01:11:23.023
said 20% of executive assistants have a bachelor's degree today, right?

01:11:23.203 --> 01:11:29.823
20% of them. But in the job listings for new executive assistants,

01:11:30.323 --> 01:11:35.883
75% of them in the job listings require a bachelor's degree.

01:11:36.483 --> 01:11:42.623
So you can see how this issue kind of is bleeding down to those without degrees.

01:11:42.843 --> 01:11:48.763
The folks with degrees unable to find work are now getting hired in these lower

01:11:48.763 --> 01:11:55.203
level positions that formally didn't require degrees. We call this degree inflation.

01:11:55.803 --> 01:12:02.483
So it's impacting not just college kids, but it's those doors for workers without

01:12:02.483 --> 01:12:06.323
degrees are also tightening up and closing some.

01:12:07.023 --> 01:12:11.423
Yeah. All right. So I got a couple more questions because I know you got to go.

01:12:11.743 --> 01:12:18.563
Did the doge cuts affect our credit downgrade from Moody's or were there other factors in play?

01:12:19.780 --> 01:12:26.200
Probably. I mean, I think so. There's so much craziness going on at any point

01:12:26.200 --> 01:12:28.900
in time, not just in the United States, seems worldwide now,

01:12:29.020 --> 01:12:31.160
but yeah, I think they did.

01:12:31.160 --> 01:12:39.820
I mean, the view, the paradigm of those considering investing in the U.S.,

01:12:39.820 --> 01:12:45.780
buying our treasury notes, bonds, and bills, you know, went down.

01:12:45.780 --> 01:12:50.440
And it was dinged by a number of issues, the size of our deficit,

01:12:50.980 --> 01:12:58.240
some would say the craziness of what seemed to be these haphazard cuts by Doge.

01:12:58.240 --> 01:13:02.180
Although I don't think anybody's against, you know, cutting out,

01:13:02.240 --> 01:13:07.440
cutting out fat and so forth, just the way it was maybe communicated or actually

01:13:07.440 --> 01:13:11.620
what they ended up doing and so forth was a little alarming to folks overseas.

01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:14.400
So I'd say, yeah, that probably impacted the downgrade.

01:13:14.860 --> 01:13:18.920
At the end of the day, those downgrades come every once in a while,

01:13:19.140 --> 01:13:25.120
often in response to fiscal nonsense, not being able to pass a budget and so

01:13:25.120 --> 01:13:28.420
forth. But, you know, at the end of the day, the U.S.

01:13:28.460 --> 01:13:31.420
Is strong, even in our worst times.

01:13:32.040 --> 01:13:34.040
And we've had some here recently.

01:13:34.740 --> 01:13:39.200
Others look to the U.S. as the gold standard as a place to put their money.

01:13:39.380 --> 01:13:40.820
So a little bit of a downgrade.

01:13:41.080 --> 01:13:46.820
It was news attention and so forth. Probably not the, not earth shattering in

01:13:46.820 --> 01:13:47.960
terms of the big picture.

01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:53.740
Yeah. All right. So finally, Rick, look into your crystal ball and tell the

01:13:53.740 --> 01:13:55.820
listeners what Christmas will be like this year.

01:13:56.941 --> 01:14:04.141
I think Christmas should be, you know, with a couple of key qualifiers relating

01:14:04.141 --> 01:14:06.441
to what we talked about here, right?

01:14:06.581 --> 01:14:10.301
The difficulty with the job market that some groups are going to have,

01:14:10.401 --> 01:14:13.301
more problems than they've had in the past, right?

01:14:13.501 --> 01:14:17.061
With that aside, and that's an important thing to set aside,

01:14:17.301 --> 01:14:22.661
I would say, you know, Christmas is going to be similar to where we're at today, okay?

01:14:22.661 --> 01:14:28.021
I suspect markets will end up, the stock market will be around where it is today,

01:14:28.021 --> 01:14:29.901
maybe a little bit higher.

01:14:29.981 --> 01:14:34.301
I don't think it's going to be substantially higher, nor do I think it's going

01:14:34.301 --> 01:14:37.441
to, the bottom's going to fall out of it. Same thing with the economy.

01:14:37.821 --> 01:14:44.301
I suspect we're going to be on, remain on reasonable footing in terms of economic growth.

01:14:44.301 --> 01:14:50.741
In terms of interest rates, you know, I initially, I have been saying since

01:14:50.741 --> 01:14:55.181
late last year that I didn't think the Fed was going to cut interest rates at all this year.

01:14:56.281 --> 01:15:02.061
Maybe they'll cut once between now and the end of the year, cut interest rates just a little bit.

01:15:02.281 --> 01:15:07.561
But I don't see much improvement from that small interest rate cut bleeding

01:15:07.561 --> 01:15:11.601
into like the housing sector, which remains a real tough sector.

01:15:12.701 --> 01:15:18.061
So the president said that people shouldn't be able to get three,

01:15:18.241 --> 01:15:20.661
shouldn't try to buy three or four Barbie dolls.

01:15:20.821 --> 01:15:23.161
You're saying, yeah, if you want to, go ahead.

01:15:25.961 --> 01:15:30.341
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I would. Yeah. That's why I forgot about that.

01:15:30.461 --> 01:15:33.401
But yeah, you're right. That's a good way to put it. Okay.

01:15:33.981 --> 01:15:37.981
All right, Rick. Well, look, I know you got to go and I appreciate you taking

01:15:37.981 --> 01:15:39.901
the time as always to do this.

01:15:40.141 --> 01:15:44.681
It's very, very helpful for our listeners. It's very, very helpful for me to

01:15:44.681 --> 01:15:46.541
have intelligent discussions about it.

01:15:46.641 --> 01:15:50.261
If people want to get in touch with you in the meantime, how can they do that?

01:15:51.001 --> 01:15:58.681
They can email me at rroberts at monmouth.edu,

01:15:58.941 --> 01:16:06.801
at M-O-N-M-O-U-T-H dot E-D-U, and I'm happy to get back to them with whatever is on their mind.

01:16:06.921 --> 01:16:10.301
Always happy. I'm always happy to come on and join you, Erik,

01:16:10.421 --> 01:16:14.321
and you're always very thoughtful and insightful with your questions,

01:16:14.501 --> 01:16:16.201
and they're always right on the money.

01:16:16.741 --> 01:16:23.141
Well, Rick Roberts, again, you're just as insightful as far as the answers that you give.

01:16:23.381 --> 01:16:28.861
And you are one of the people who have lived up to the reputation that once

01:16:28.861 --> 01:16:30.621
you've been on, you've got an open invitation.

01:16:30.941 --> 01:16:34.421
And I greatly appreciate every time you come up. So thank you again.

01:16:35.241 --> 01:16:39.001
Yep. Always here. And I'm sure we'll be talking soon.

01:16:39.280 --> 01:16:57.520
Music.

01:17:01.824 --> 01:17:08.384
All right, and we are back. And so now it's time for my next guest, Dave Heller.

01:17:08.964 --> 01:17:14.164
Dave Heller is one of the Democratic Party's top media consultants and campaign strategist.

01:17:14.484 --> 01:17:20.384
As president of Main Street, Dave has helped elect or reelect 30 different members

01:17:20.384 --> 01:17:24.924
of Congress, has compiled the best one loss record in the Democratic Party,

01:17:25.224 --> 01:17:27.204
helping elect clients to Congress.

01:17:28.024 --> 01:17:33.404
Dave's clients have won 15 out of 19 general election open seat races for Congress.

01:17:34.144 --> 01:17:38.604
Open seats being the most hotly contested races, I might add.

01:17:38.984 --> 01:17:43.164
Dave has repeatedly helped his clients win some of the nation's toughest races.

01:17:43.464 --> 01:17:48.124
He's produced all the TV and radio ads for Representative Marcy,

01:17:48.304 --> 01:17:55.204
captor of Ohio, who in 2024 was one of only two Democrats nationally to win reelection.

01:17:55.204 --> 01:17:59.504
In a Republican plus eight district or worse.

01:18:00.224 --> 01:18:04.604
In 2022, Captor garnered the highest winning percentage of any Democrat running

01:18:04.604 --> 01:18:09.124
in a Trump district and the highest percentage above President Biden's 2020

01:18:09.124 --> 01:18:13.404
vote of any of the 435 members of Congress.

01:18:13.904 --> 01:18:19.544
Dave also helped reelect Representative Sanford Bishop of Georgia by 13 points

01:18:19.544 --> 01:18:23.944
and a majority white district that borders Alabama for 150 miles.

01:18:23.944 --> 01:18:33.324
In 2012, 2014, 2016, and 2018, Dave helped re-elect Representative Colin Peterson

01:18:33.324 --> 01:18:38.264
of Minnesota in a district where Hillary Clinton won barely 30%.

01:18:39.469 --> 01:18:44.009
He has also helped elect Representative Mike McIntyre of North Carolina in a

01:18:44.009 --> 01:18:45.969
Republican plus 13 district,

01:18:46.509 --> 01:18:50.929
Representative Joe Donnelly of Indiana in a Republican plus five seat,

01:18:51.149 --> 01:18:57.669
and Representative John Yarmouf of Kentucky in a district Democrats had not won in 12 years.

01:18:57.669 --> 01:19:03.589
What makes Dave's success unique is the ideological diversity of his clients.

01:19:03.589 --> 01:19:08.329
Dave has helped elect and reelect more African Americans to Congress,

01:19:08.509 --> 01:19:13.069
11, than any other media consultant, including current and former U.S.

01:19:13.189 --> 01:19:16.489
Representatives Frank Balance, Democrat from North Carolina,

01:19:17.269 --> 01:19:23.609
Sanford Bishop of Georgia, Kareem Brown of Florida, the late John Conyers of

01:19:23.609 --> 01:19:30.649
Michigan, the late Elijah Cummings of Maryland, Marcia Fudge of Ohio, Jesse Jackson Jr.

01:19:30.889 --> 01:19:35.969
Of Illinois, the late John Lewis of Georgia, David Scott of Georgia,

01:19:36.329 --> 01:19:40.029
Maxine Waters, California, and Albert Wynn, Maryland.

01:19:40.829 --> 01:19:45.889
Heller has also made all of the ads for his U.S. Representative Raul Rejava

01:19:45.889 --> 01:19:49.509
of Arizona in a plurality Hispanic district.

01:19:49.949 --> 01:19:54.189
Dave has also helped elect many of the Blue Dog Democrats in Congress.

01:19:54.389 --> 01:19:57.669
The party's most conservative voices, including their founder,

01:19:57.869 --> 01:19:59.789
Representative Colm Peterson of Minnesota.

01:20:00.509 --> 01:20:04.629
Other Blue Dog clients have included U.S. Representative Sanford Bishop of Georgia,

01:20:05.229 --> 01:20:10.049
Alan Boyd of Florida, Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Ken Lucas of Kentucky.

01:20:10.909 --> 01:20:15.929
Mike McIntyre of North Carolina, David Phelps of Illinois, and Davis Scott of Georgia.

01:20:16.972 --> 01:20:20.612
Dave has also helped his clients win many county executive and mayoral races.

01:20:20.932 --> 01:20:26.832
He helped elect Erie County Executive Kathy Dahlkemper, Baltimore County Executive

01:20:26.832 --> 01:20:32.852
Kevin Kamenetz, and Jefferson County, Kentucky Executive Greg Fisher.

01:20:33.272 --> 01:20:39.612
He has also helped elect a number of mayors, including Baltimore Mayor Catherine

01:20:39.612 --> 01:20:42.572
Pugh and Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson.

01:20:42.572 --> 01:20:45.932
He helped elect the first woman mayor of Cleveland, Jane Campbell,

01:20:46.512 --> 01:20:48.372
the first African-American mayor in St.

01:20:48.432 --> 01:20:54.312
Louis, Freeman Bosley Jr., and the first Democrat in 16 years in Syracuse, Matt Driscoll.

01:20:54.852 --> 01:20:58.132
Dave is best known for his creative TV and radio ads.

01:20:58.412 --> 01:21:02.812
He has been awarded 18 poly awards from his peers at the American Association

01:21:02.812 --> 01:21:04.392
of Political Consultants.

01:21:04.692 --> 01:21:10.592
For his ads, he was named a rising star in American politics by Campaign and Elections magazine.

01:21:11.392 --> 01:21:16.652
Dave graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa with honors from Brown University

01:21:16.652 --> 01:21:23.632
and earned a master's degree in political science from Oxford University to Nuffield College.

01:21:24.552 --> 01:21:28.452
He went on to Yale University, where he taught his own seminar on 20th century

01:21:28.452 --> 01:21:30.512
political protest movements.

01:21:30.992 --> 01:21:35.892
An avid baseball fan, Dave owns the Quad City River Bandits,

01:21:36.252 --> 01:21:43.072
the Kansas City Royals' Advanced A affiliate. In 2021, Baseball Park Digest

01:21:43.072 --> 01:21:45.392
named the Bandits its Minor League Team of the Year.

01:21:45.672 --> 01:21:50.852
The team's ballpark, Martin Woodman Park, was twice voted Best Minor League

01:21:50.852 --> 01:21:54.952
Ballpark in America by USA Today and 10best.com.

01:21:55.612 --> 01:22:01.172
Davis earned the Best Ballpark Improvement Award from Ballpark Digest a record five times.

01:22:01.932 --> 01:22:06.012
The Bandits also won Best Charitable Campaign for their charity-related work

01:22:06.012 --> 01:22:10.952
in 2015, 2017, 2019, and 2023.

01:22:11.392 --> 01:22:16.712
No other team has ever won twice. And his organization, Main Street Baseball,

01:22:16.812 --> 01:22:19.552
was named Minor League Baseball Organization of the Year.

01:22:19.812 --> 01:22:24.932
He and his wife, June, have two teenage sons, Dylan and Cade.

01:22:25.132 --> 01:22:30.432
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast.

01:22:30.320 --> 01:22:39.760
Music.

01:22:43.464 --> 01:22:47.324
All right. Dave Heller. How are you doing, sir? You doing good?

01:22:47.744 --> 01:22:51.184
I'm doing great. I'm happy to be here. I'm blessed and highly favored.

01:22:51.644 --> 01:22:55.744
Well, same here. And I'm really, really glad that you're here.

01:22:55.944 --> 01:23:00.724
I know this is baseball season and that's just one of your bigger passions other

01:23:00.724 --> 01:23:05.084
than politics. And I know you've got some some things you got to take care of.

01:23:05.204 --> 01:23:09.404
So I want to want to get this done in a reasonable time.

01:23:09.604 --> 01:23:12.944
But again, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

01:23:13.124 --> 01:23:15.024
Honored to be here. Yes, sir.

01:23:15.564 --> 01:23:20.184
All right. So how I normally start the interviews is that I do a couple of icebreakers.

01:23:20.744 --> 01:23:24.844
So the first icebreaker is a quote, and I want you to respond to this quote.

01:23:25.424 --> 01:23:32.224
Let's try things. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'm not going to be angry or blame anybody.

01:23:32.564 --> 01:23:37.584
I'd rather try things and fail with the best intentions than not try at all.

01:23:37.804 --> 01:23:38.964
What does that quote mean to you?

01:23:39.604 --> 01:23:44.584
That's how we do everything in all of my businesses, whether you're talking

01:23:44.584 --> 01:23:49.124
about political advertising or baseball or anything else.

01:23:49.324 --> 01:23:51.564
It means don't be afraid to take chances.

01:23:52.364 --> 01:23:56.864
It means if you are doing something with the best of intentions,

01:23:56.864 --> 01:24:04.144
you are going to either succeed or you're going to want to go back and refine

01:24:04.144 --> 01:24:08.964
and polish and smooth out the rough edges and figure out a way to get to yes,

01:24:09.164 --> 01:24:10.424
figure out a way to make it work.

01:24:10.564 --> 01:24:12.804
And that's what I've always tried to do in my life.

01:24:13.664 --> 01:24:19.844
Yeah. All right. And so my next icebreaker is what we call 20 questions. Okay.

01:24:20.264 --> 01:24:24.464
So I need to get, I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

01:24:24.964 --> 01:24:26.864
19. All right.

01:24:27.564 --> 01:24:32.864
What are some values you think most people share, even if they express them differently?

01:24:34.292 --> 01:24:40.412
No, I think most people are thoughtful, compassionate, optimistic, kind,

01:24:41.472 --> 01:24:49.332
and generally want to see themselves and see others around them do well.

01:24:50.052 --> 01:24:54.372
Okay. Yeah, I would agree with that. All right.

01:24:54.852 --> 01:25:00.292
So, Dave, I want to start this interview tapping into your political background.

01:25:00.712 --> 01:25:03.952
First of all, how did you get involved in politics?

01:25:06.632 --> 01:25:16.352
So, I started as a reporter for a magazine called Campaigns and Elections magazine in D.C.

01:25:16.672 --> 01:25:18.652
When I got out of graduate school.

01:25:19.852 --> 01:25:23.892
And within a year, I'd become the managing editor of it.

01:25:24.292 --> 01:25:28.852
But I didn't want to cover the game. I wanted to be part of the game.

01:25:29.672 --> 01:25:37.872
And so I got hired by a pollster named Alan Secrest, who's done a lot of work

01:25:37.872 --> 01:25:39.652
in your state there in Georgia.

01:25:40.592 --> 01:25:47.472
And he was, at the time, the second largest congressional pollster in the Democratic Party.

01:25:47.472 --> 01:25:55.512
And so I really dove in and worked on how do you take numbers and turn them

01:25:55.512 --> 01:25:58.272
into actionable campaign strategy, right?

01:25:58.272 --> 01:26:09.432
If 52% of the people love Erik Fleming and 18% don't like him and the other 30% are neutral,

01:26:09.432 --> 01:26:14.192
what does that mean in terms of where he goes, what he does,

01:26:14.512 --> 01:26:17.812
who does he speak to and how does he speak to them?

01:26:18.652 --> 01:26:23.592
And turning data into actual campaign strategy, that's really how I got my start.

01:26:23.592 --> 01:26:31.772
And then in 92, I was hired by a wonderful, wonderful guy named Gerry Austin,

01:26:31.772 --> 01:26:35.612
who had been Jesse Jackson's media consultant.

01:26:36.532 --> 01:26:41.492
And Jerry brought me in to open a D.C. office for his media firm.

01:26:41.632 --> 01:26:44.072
And I've been doing political media ever since.

01:26:44.992 --> 01:26:49.072
Yeah. So I guess to date myself, I know all these people you're talking about.

01:26:50.052 --> 01:26:53.512
I couldn't afford Mr. Seacrest when I was running for the U.S. Senate.

01:26:53.932 --> 01:26:59.932
And Gerry has a connection with Brad Chism, who I was with in Mississippi.

01:27:00.292 --> 01:27:03.272
So, yeah, I'm very, very familiar with those names.

01:27:03.852 --> 01:27:10.512
And I think Jerry is a special guy. Yeah, he is. He's really a class act. I like him a lot.

01:27:11.132 --> 01:27:16.212
Vice President Harris said that she decided not to run for governor of California

01:27:16.212 --> 01:27:19.312
next year because she felt that the system is broken.

01:27:19.672 --> 01:27:21.512
Do you agree with her sentiments?

01:27:22.914 --> 01:27:30.534
Don't want to believe the system is broken, but we certainly see a president

01:27:30.534 --> 01:27:36.554
who is taking a sledgehammer to the system and trying to shatter it every day.

01:27:36.894 --> 01:27:45.014
It gets more and more disturbing each and every time we wake up and turn on

01:27:45.014 --> 01:27:48.754
our phones or turn on our television sets and look at the news.

01:27:49.914 --> 01:27:56.614
Yeah. What is your take on this new battle to redistrict between the census?

01:27:57.014 --> 01:28:03.594
I was trying to find a way to ask that question because it's an odd situation that we're in.

01:28:03.974 --> 01:28:06.954
But what is your take on that?

01:28:08.834 --> 01:28:17.674
My take is it is a wonderful and smart and savvy way for the Republicans to

01:28:17.674 --> 01:28:19.934
undermine our nation's democracy.

01:28:20.354 --> 01:28:26.094
If that's their goal, right? Which it ought not to be, obviously. It's a horrible thing.

01:28:26.714 --> 01:28:32.394
It's insulting to voters, and it's saying to everyone in this country,

01:28:32.734 --> 01:28:37.074
look, the Republicans don't want voters to choose their politicians.

01:28:37.074 --> 01:28:39.414
They want politicians to choose their voters.

01:28:39.874 --> 01:28:45.474
And that's anathema to what democracy is all about. We both know that. Yeah.

01:28:46.094 --> 01:28:51.314
Yeah. And, you know, having been a former legislator and having gone through

01:28:51.314 --> 01:28:57.034
a redistricting process, it's just that old adage, you like the sausage,

01:28:57.274 --> 01:28:59.274
but you don't like the way that you make it. Right.

01:28:59.814 --> 01:29:07.914
And so I've been through that. And it would just, you know, if Mississippi had

01:29:07.914 --> 01:29:12.354
tried to do that when I was in the legislature, it would have been just total, total chaos.

01:29:13.274 --> 01:29:20.074
So let me so that leads me to this question. Governor Hochul has basically said that we're at war now.

01:29:20.314 --> 01:29:26.494
Do you agree with her sentiment that the Democrats and Republicans are officially in a war?

01:29:27.767 --> 01:29:33.367
Know that it's official, but yes, I do.

01:29:33.867 --> 01:29:40.747
And it's horrible. But I think Governor Newsom is right that if Texas is going

01:29:40.747 --> 01:29:46.567
to do this and Texas is going to try to steal five seats, that,

01:29:47.787 --> 01:29:50.527
California is in the right to try to do the same thing.

01:29:50.647 --> 01:29:56.547
And if the Republicans are going to push this in Florida and Missouri and Indiana

01:29:56.547 --> 01:30:01.327
as they appear to be, then Democrats ought to be trying to do the same thing

01:30:01.327 --> 01:30:04.147
wherever we have an opportunity to.

01:30:04.567 --> 01:30:10.707
There can't be one set of rules for Republicans and another set of rules for Democrats.

01:30:11.287 --> 01:30:15.627
There has to be one set of rules for all Americans, right?

01:30:15.787 --> 01:30:21.547
In our perfect world, Eric, that one set of rules would be what it has been

01:30:21.547 --> 01:30:27.027
for the past 250 years, and that is we redistrict every 10 years,

01:30:27.387 --> 01:30:28.987
period, stop, end of sentence.

01:30:29.887 --> 01:30:36.507
Yeah, and I agree with that totally. I just, you know, it's just kind of weird

01:30:36.507 --> 01:30:41.287
to me how blatant these folks are.

01:30:41.507 --> 01:30:49.147
I think it's hypocritical that a guy who should have been in jail, Ken Paxton.

01:30:49.887 --> 01:30:55.487
And, you know, now he wants to get these, he wants to have these folks arrested

01:30:55.487 --> 01:30:59.927
in Texas, these, these house members who have decided that, you know,

01:31:00.047 --> 01:31:01.887
we're not going to participate in this sham.

01:31:02.747 --> 01:31:06.707
You know, Governor Abbott, you know, you call a special session to deal with

01:31:06.707 --> 01:31:09.047
a terrible tragedy that happened in your state.

01:31:09.407 --> 01:31:14.367
And then you turn it around to cater to the whims of somebody who,

01:31:14.887 --> 01:31:18.347
like you said, has a sledgehammer to the process, right?

01:31:18.487 --> 01:31:23.247
And doesn't have any integrity to it. I just, I agree with you.

01:31:23.427 --> 01:31:28.087
It's like we can't deal with these people in the conventional way that we have

01:31:28.087 --> 01:31:30.407
dealt with politics before.

01:31:30.447 --> 01:31:36.767
But if we cross that line, can we come back?

01:31:38.255 --> 01:31:44.535
We can. Sure, we can. You could have both sides at some point say enough is

01:31:44.535 --> 01:31:46.315
enough. This is terrible.

01:31:46.555 --> 01:31:51.815
We need to stop and let's get together and find a bipartisan solution.

01:31:52.195 --> 01:31:54.335
Right. It shouldn't have to be

01:31:54.335 --> 01:32:00.715
only the Republicans in California who say midterm redistricting is bad.

01:32:00.715 --> 01:32:05.635
We should have a, you know, there's no, there's no ideological difference between

01:32:05.635 --> 01:32:09.435
Kevin Kiley out of Sacramento and any of the Republicans in Texas.

01:32:09.915 --> 01:32:12.715
Kiley's only saying it because it's bad for him.

01:32:13.535 --> 01:32:17.595
What we need is enough people who say it's bad for the country.

01:32:18.155 --> 01:32:23.395
We're going to look at the interests of the country. And that's what needs to happen.

01:32:23.395 --> 01:32:26.315
I think, look, as bad as what Paxton is doing.

01:32:27.175 --> 01:32:34.055
Trying to use the force of law, the sheriffs, to bring these people into the

01:32:34.055 --> 01:32:38.955
legislature, it's even worse and more hypocritical, in my opinion,

01:32:39.195 --> 01:32:41.435
what Senator John Cornyn is doing.

01:32:41.775 --> 01:32:45.755
Right, a Texas senator who says we should get the FBI involved.

01:32:46.135 --> 01:32:49.115
Well, there's no federal matter here.

01:32:49.795 --> 01:32:55.775
Redistricting is completely a state issue. And for these Republicans in general,

01:32:55.995 --> 01:33:01.755
and Cornyn in particular, who say, I'm a Republican because I believe in smaller government.

01:33:01.815 --> 01:33:07.735
I'm a Republican because I want to move power away from the federal government and onto the states.

01:33:08.095 --> 01:33:10.415
Really? And then you want to use the FBI?

01:33:11.295 --> 01:33:16.835
Because some state legislators walked out of the state legislature because they

01:33:16.835 --> 01:33:18.615
didn't want to vote on a state issue?

01:33:19.535 --> 01:33:24.835
Where's the federal issue in that? Especially when we have, if you believe John

01:33:24.835 --> 01:33:31.395
Cornyn himself, that we have so many pressing federal issues for the FBI to work on.

01:33:33.132 --> 01:33:36.312
Are they wasting their time on a state issue? It makes no sense to me.

01:33:36.452 --> 01:33:40.832
It's all hypocrisy, Erik. You know that, and I know that. Your listeners know that.

01:33:41.232 --> 01:33:46.752
That's exactly right. And I'm going to deal with Cornyn when I have my little

01:33:46.752 --> 01:33:49.572
editorial moment on the podcast,

01:33:49.572 --> 01:33:56.992
but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that feels passionately about what he's trying to do.

01:33:56.992 --> 01:33:59.632
No, listen, let me let me jump in for one second.

01:33:59.952 --> 01:34:05.192
We Democrats should not feel like we're Marilyn on The Munsters.

01:34:05.812 --> 01:34:10.312
Right. That we're not that we know we're normal and we know we're right.

01:34:10.592 --> 01:34:15.512
And everybody else around us is strange. And somehow that makes us strange.

01:34:15.952 --> 01:34:19.292
No, no, we are normal.

01:34:19.532 --> 01:34:25.032
We are right. We do things the right way. That's part of the reason why we're Democrats.

01:34:25.872 --> 01:34:30.532
We're going to fight if we lose if we lose a battle we lose a battle but we

01:34:30.532 --> 01:34:35.472
don't change the rules and if we lose an election we don't scream that it was

01:34:35.472 --> 01:34:38.332
rigged and it has to be redone and,

01:34:38.912 --> 01:34:42.892
say to violent felons we're going to pardon you and we're going to put you back

01:34:42.892 --> 01:34:47.152
out on the streets after you beat up cops no we don't do that we're democrats

01:34:47.152 --> 01:34:49.892
we're better than that amen brother Amen.

01:34:50.792 --> 01:34:54.512
There's a common phrase we say on this show. It's like, say that louder so the

01:34:54.512 --> 01:34:55.932
folks in the back can hear it, right?

01:34:57.472 --> 01:35:02.112
So you have successfully helped 25 candidates become members of Congress.

01:35:02.352 --> 01:35:04.652
Yeah, closer to 30 now. Okay.

01:35:06.252 --> 01:35:11.352
Yeah, that's even better. What is your advice to those individuals who want

01:35:11.352 --> 01:35:13.312
to run for Congress in 2026? 2026.

01:35:13.612 --> 01:35:15.972
Do it. Do it.

01:35:16.532 --> 01:35:22.832
Grab your surfboard and ride the wave. And if you are running as a Democrat

01:35:22.832 --> 01:35:27.572
against a Republican, remember one thing above all.

01:35:27.812 --> 01:35:30.412
The focus is on the incumbent.

01:35:31.052 --> 01:35:34.712
Hold him or her accountable for their votes.

01:35:34.912 --> 01:35:42.452
Don't make the race about you. Make the race about what they have done to your constituents, right?

01:35:42.612 --> 01:35:47.192
Voters, I believe, Erik, voters are very transactional today,

01:35:47.832 --> 01:35:50.272
right? Don't tell me about me.

01:35:50.992 --> 01:35:55.652
I don't want you to tell me about you. Tell me about me.

01:35:56.112 --> 01:36:01.432
Tell me what you're going to do for me. Tell me how you're going to make my life better.

01:36:02.112 --> 01:36:07.812
How is your stewardship in office going to improve my life?

01:36:09.231 --> 01:36:13.871
Those young people who are thinking about running hold these Republicans accountable

01:36:13.871 --> 01:36:18.591
for their votes on the big, ugly bill and everything else that Trump has put through.

01:36:19.611 --> 01:36:27.211
Yeah. So when you said it like that, you know, I'm thinking about John F. Kennedy, right?

01:36:27.991 --> 01:36:33.751
And he said his famous words, you know, ask not what your country can do for you.

01:36:33.931 --> 01:36:36.791
Ask what you can do for your country. you're saying

01:36:36.791 --> 01:36:39.751
in this political climate that's not the vibe we we

01:36:39.751 --> 01:36:42.771
need to give out wish it were i wish

01:36:42.771 --> 01:36:46.391
it were yeah yeah all right

01:36:46.391 --> 01:36:49.331
so you you currently live in iowa correct

01:36:49.331 --> 01:36:56.911
do can can zohran mamdani's mamdani's message of affordability resonate with

01:36:56.911 --> 01:37:02.071
iowans or should democrats take a different approach than what he's trying to

01:37:02.071 --> 01:37:07.831
do there i think what Mamdani is doing is great, right?

01:37:07.831 --> 01:37:14.171
In the sense of saying to people, I hear you, I see you, I will fight for you.

01:37:14.791 --> 01:37:25.291
And the more the big, powerful, special interests want to push back on him, the more.

01:37:26.411 --> 01:37:30.431
Genuine, the more authentic, the more real he comes off.

01:37:31.031 --> 01:37:36.631
There was an article in the New York Times within the past two days talking

01:37:36.631 --> 01:37:43.211
about Donald Trump weighing in in that New York City's mayor's race and doing

01:37:43.211 --> 01:37:45.271
what he could to help Andrew Cuomo.

01:37:45.631 --> 01:37:50.311
And I thought, I'm not working for a Mamdani, but if I were,

01:37:50.531 --> 01:37:57.011
that would be the greatest Christmas gift I could possibly get in that campaign. Right? The best.

01:37:58.339 --> 01:38:05.299
I don't believe here in Iowa in particular or in the Midwest in general that

01:38:05.299 --> 01:38:15.259
running a campaign on free bus service or capping rent is the key to winning election.

01:38:15.259 --> 01:38:20.339
But I do think being authentic, being genuine,

01:38:21.459 --> 01:38:27.399
understanding that the issues and the problems that people in your community

01:38:27.399 --> 01:38:32.039
are facing, whether they are people of color, people of means,

01:38:32.979 --> 01:38:38.899
male, female, whatever your background is, that doesn't matter. They're people.

01:38:39.179 --> 01:38:45.159
And if you can give voice to people's frustrations, you can be very successful in 2026.

01:38:46.239 --> 01:38:52.599
Yeah. All right. In the 2024 election, Democratic consultants really received

01:38:52.599 --> 01:38:55.059
a lot of criticism, well, at least after the election.

01:38:55.399 --> 01:39:03.339
Do you feel it was justified? And how do you feel political consultancy should evolve? So, look.

01:39:05.599 --> 01:39:10.439
Democratic consultants were criticized for the races that they lost,

01:39:11.179 --> 01:39:13.599
right? You don't get criticized when you win.

01:39:14.319 --> 01:39:20.219
And you look at some of those races, some of the Senate races that we lost,

01:39:20.379 --> 01:39:27.619
and particularly the presidency, and I think there's a lot of deserved criticism for them.

01:39:28.419 --> 01:39:36.459
How does Kamala Harris walk onto the set of The View and be asked,

01:39:36.619 --> 01:39:39.239
what would you do differently from Joe Biden?

01:39:39.479 --> 01:39:43.899
And have her answer be, well, I can't think of anything I would do differently.

01:39:46.299 --> 01:39:51.699
Yes, part of that is the candidate, but part of that is her team around her.

01:39:52.079 --> 01:39:56.739
She should never have been in that situation where she would give that kind of answer.

01:39:56.739 --> 01:40:00.679
I erik i always believe that

01:40:00.679 --> 01:40:04.219
if if there is an election between two people

01:40:04.219 --> 01:40:07.919
and one of them is pushing change and one

01:40:07.919 --> 01:40:11.579
of them is saying we're just going to keep doing what we're doing change is

01:40:11.579 --> 01:40:20.399
going to win every time yeah yeah i i agree with that it is and and sadly in

01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:25.119
in 2024 we Democrats allowed Trump to be the change,

01:40:25.239 --> 01:40:28.279
and we were the status quo at the presidential level.

01:40:28.979 --> 01:40:34.419
I believe that's why we lost. I don't think it was she didn't have enough time.

01:40:34.839 --> 01:40:39.499
I don't think it was people were so angry at Biden.

01:40:39.759 --> 01:40:43.199
I think it was she did not break from him.

01:40:43.399 --> 01:40:48.559
She did not convince people that she was going to do things differently,

01:40:48.559 --> 01:40:52.099
that she was going to be a positive change in their lives.

01:40:53.506 --> 01:41:00.906
So some people have said, you know, that she didn't do that because she didn't

01:41:00.906 --> 01:41:08.126
have people of color in her in her consultancy and her team.

01:41:08.486 --> 01:41:12.266
And I knew there were some, but, you know, it was like, you know,

01:41:12.306 --> 01:41:13.506
and that's always the case.

01:41:13.666 --> 01:41:19.526
It's like, well, you didn't reach out to the black vendors enough and and all that kind of thing.

01:41:19.526 --> 01:41:25.706
Do you think that would have made a difference or it was more about presentation

01:41:25.706 --> 01:41:31.046
and messaging rather than who was given access to the room?

01:41:31.566 --> 01:41:36.926
So I don't I think that's a false choice that you just constructed respectfully.

01:41:37.326 --> 01:41:41.206
Right. OK. I think if you have the right people in the room,

01:41:41.446 --> 01:41:43.706
you will have the right message.

01:41:45.306 --> 01:41:50.966
And if there are not people of color or people who have worked significantly,

01:41:51.466 --> 01:41:59.286
in the black community at the table and nobody is reflecting and advocating

01:41:59.286 --> 01:42:02.026
for the interests of the black community,

01:42:02.626 --> 01:42:06.066
the message is going to be different, right?

01:42:07.046 --> 01:42:10.486
The message is shaped by the people in the room. You've got to get the right

01:42:10.486 --> 01:42:12.366
people in the room. You're not going to get the right message.

01:42:13.878 --> 01:42:17.298
Well, I mean, I don't disagree with that.

01:42:17.498 --> 01:42:22.798
And I appreciate you keeping me straight on the way I phrased the question,

01:42:22.818 --> 01:42:28.878
because, see, that's a dichotomy that, you know, as a black candidate, I've had to deal with.

01:42:28.878 --> 01:42:36.678
And, you know, my my thing has always been I want the best people if if if they

01:42:36.678 --> 01:42:41.818
if if my team happens to be all black or all female or whatever the case may be,

01:42:41.918 --> 01:42:45.618
then it is what it is, because I want to get the best people in the room.

01:42:46.138 --> 01:42:50.498
Some people kind of felt that because she came in at the last minute,

01:42:50.498 --> 01:42:53.738
she didn't really have the say so to get the people in the room.

01:42:53.778 --> 01:42:58.638
She just basically brought over Biden's folks and kept it pushing.

01:42:59.278 --> 01:43:04.418
But I think she could have had a lot more say-so if she, I think her biggest

01:43:04.418 --> 01:43:06.118
flaw was that she was loyal.

01:43:07.098 --> 01:43:15.178
And had she just said, this is my moment, you know, kind of even got to be a diva about it.

01:43:15.278 --> 01:43:17.638
You know what I'm saying? If she said, this is my moment now,

01:43:17.818 --> 01:43:22.678
he did his thing, he stepped down, you know, I think things would have been

01:43:22.678 --> 01:43:24.258
different, but I don't know.

01:43:24.438 --> 01:43:27.698
You know, I was an outsider looking in just like everybody else.

01:43:27.698 --> 01:43:34.678
It's an interesting thing when a guy says, no, no, no, we're doing it this way.

01:43:35.218 --> 01:43:39.578
And he's considered tough and strong and firm and has a lot of backbone.

01:43:39.898 --> 01:43:43.318
And a woman comes in and says, no, no, no, we're doing it this way.

01:43:43.498 --> 01:43:45.178
And suddenly she's a diva.

01:43:45.678 --> 01:43:50.798
Like that's baloney. I want a strong candidate regardless of their gender.

01:43:50.798 --> 01:43:56.058
I want somebody who is strong, who is firm, who is tough,

01:43:56.338 --> 01:44:01.598
who knows who they are, who advocates for what they believe,

01:44:01.758 --> 01:44:06.518
doesn't back down from who they are, and is comfortable in their own skin and shows that.

01:44:07.864 --> 01:44:12.304
And to me, Barack Obama was very much that.

01:44:13.064 --> 01:44:18.844
My dearest friend in the world, Elijah Cummings, lived that every single day of his life.

01:44:19.364 --> 01:44:26.404
I had the privilege of working for Congressman John Lewis and making ads for him.

01:44:26.524 --> 01:44:29.604
And in fact, I lived next door to Mr. Lewis in D.C.

01:44:29.784 --> 01:44:35.264
And when I would go off on a shoot, Mr. Lewis would come over sometimes and babysit my young son.

01:44:36.464 --> 01:44:39.564
And so I got to don't want a personal left and,

01:44:40.404 --> 01:44:45.464
Eric what you see with John Lewis what you saw with John Lewis what you saw

01:44:45.464 --> 01:44:51.524
with Elijah Cummings what you see with Barack Obama is these are all people

01:44:51.524 --> 01:44:57.564
who are genuine who are authentic who are who were comfortable in their own skin,

01:44:58.224 --> 01:45:04.424
knew who they were knew why they were there and knew who sent them there and,

01:45:05.264 --> 01:45:08.704
I don't want to say Vice President Harris wasn't that.

01:45:08.884 --> 01:45:11.204
I will just say I didn't get that vibe.

01:45:12.264 --> 01:45:17.824
Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait for the book. I've already pre-ordered my Audible because

01:45:17.824 --> 01:45:20.664
I want to hear her side of the story on that.

01:45:21.304 --> 01:45:25.044
You once said in politics, people are voting.

01:45:25.604 --> 01:45:30.444
People vote in the voting booth. In baseball, people vote with their feet.

01:45:30.684 --> 01:45:35.984
They show up or they don't. And we work to win everybody's vote here.

01:45:36.204 --> 01:45:39.824
Is that your main correlation between baseball and politics?

01:45:40.684 --> 01:45:44.484
My main correlation. I don't know.

01:45:44.624 --> 01:45:51.804
I don't know that I would say it's a main correlation, but I do think in both cases.

01:45:52.144 --> 01:45:54.744
Right. And whether you're talking about baseball or politics,

01:45:54.744 --> 01:45:58.804
the most important thing is getting people to show up.

01:46:00.184 --> 01:46:03.164
Right and when we talk when you say baseball so

01:46:03.164 --> 01:46:07.544
your listeners know we're talking about minor league baseball and i and i make

01:46:07.544 --> 01:46:10.444
that distinction between minor league baseball major league baseball because

01:46:10.444 --> 01:46:15.024
minor league baseball has no television contracts right there's no tv revenue

01:46:15.024 --> 01:46:17.104
there's no radio revenue there's

01:46:17.104 --> 01:46:21.044
no streaming revenue and to the to the extent the games are streamed,

01:46:21.124 --> 01:46:23.784
which they are, all of that money goes to MLB.

01:46:24.484 --> 01:46:31.744
So it is, if you are a minor league baseball team owner, the only way you make

01:46:31.744 --> 01:46:34.304
money is when people show up at the ballpark.

01:46:34.584 --> 01:46:40.264
Just like when you are running for Congress or you're advising somebody working

01:46:40.264 --> 01:46:47.344
for Congress or governor, senator, the only way you win is when people show up to vote.

01:46:47.944 --> 01:46:53.684
So yeah, getting people activating people and, and making them make a,

01:46:53.784 --> 01:46:59.924
a affirmative decision to go out and do something. Yeah, that's a strong correlation.

01:47:01.257 --> 01:47:08.657
Yeah. And it's an investment, right? You know, I tell people all the time that you're a salesman,

01:47:08.877 --> 01:47:14.137
but it's a tougher sale in politics because when you're talking about minor

01:47:14.137 --> 01:47:17.977
league baseball or any other commodity, there's money involved.

01:47:18.137 --> 01:47:23.357
There's that exchange, right? But it's like when you're trying to get people

01:47:23.357 --> 01:47:25.257
to vote for a candidate, it's trust.

01:47:25.597 --> 01:47:31.997
And that's a harder thing to garner than it is to get a few dollars from somebody

01:47:31.997 --> 01:47:33.097
to purchase your product.

01:47:33.437 --> 01:47:40.657
Yeah, I think of it a little differently. I would say when you are a minor league

01:47:40.657 --> 01:47:45.117
team in a community, the whole community is behind you, right?

01:47:45.117 --> 01:47:49.917
And so getting people to come out to a Quad Cities River Bandits game,

01:47:50.237 --> 01:47:55.977
for example, where I live here in the Quad Cities, everybody's for the River

01:47:55.977 --> 01:47:58.437
Bandits. You could be a socialist.

01:47:58.597 --> 01:48:02.477
You could be middle of the road. You could be MAGA Republican.

01:48:03.297 --> 01:48:06.977
You're still with the River Band. You still want the home team to win.

01:48:07.737 --> 01:48:13.377
Politics, baseball. What I love about baseball is it is inherently inclusive.

01:48:13.377 --> 01:48:15.397
It brings everybody together.

01:48:15.777 --> 01:48:18.337
And politics is inherently divisive.

01:48:19.597 --> 01:48:24.737
And so that's the real challenge that you face when you run is people,

01:48:24.977 --> 01:48:32.477
even people that may live next door to you or work with you and with whom you

01:48:32.477 --> 01:48:34.337
socialize, with whom you're friendly.

01:48:34.337 --> 01:48:39.217
You may find, you know, I like hanging with this guy, but man,

01:48:39.417 --> 01:48:43.837
his views on some things are just way different from mine.

01:48:45.098 --> 01:48:50.958
Yeah. All right. So what gives you more satisfaction, a victorious election

01:48:50.958 --> 01:48:53.158
night or opening day at the ballpark?

01:48:53.438 --> 01:48:55.558
A victorious election night. That's easy.

01:48:58.298 --> 01:49:01.178
That's easy. I thought you were going to ask me a tough one.

01:49:01.658 --> 01:49:08.518
There's nothing more joyful than getting called the victor on election night.

01:49:09.218 --> 01:49:13.778
Yeah. Well, I didn't know if it was going to be tough or not,

01:49:13.918 --> 01:49:18.998
but I was just, I was curious because, you know, I lived in Jackson,

01:49:19.138 --> 01:49:20.298
Mississippi for a long time.

01:49:20.778 --> 01:49:27.978
And it was a huge deal when the Braves moved a double a franchise to the Jackson area.

01:49:28.618 --> 01:49:31.538
And I in another life I was actually

01:49:31.538 --> 01:49:34.318
a sports reporter so I remember when the Jackson generals were

01:49:34.318 --> 01:49:37.518
there and and watching all those guys

01:49:37.518 --> 01:49:42.118
you know the generals that was with the Astros so they had Bergman and all them

01:49:42.118 --> 01:49:47.078
guys coming through so it was fun to watch that and it's just like being a baseball

01:49:47.078 --> 01:49:54.298
guy I love opening night and and and you're just the opening day and just the

01:49:54.298 --> 01:49:55.698
pomp and the circumstance.

01:49:56.098 --> 01:49:59.278
I remember when I played Little League, right, we used to have a parade,

01:49:59.298 --> 01:50:01.058
you know what I'm saying, for opening day.

01:50:01.198 --> 01:50:05.678
We marched to the park in our uniforms and go out there and play a game,

01:50:05.778 --> 01:50:06.278
you know what I'm saying?

01:50:06.578 --> 01:50:11.058
So there's something magical about that, and I wanted to kind of get your feel

01:50:11.058 --> 01:50:14.598
on it because you've done both. You're an owner of a team.

01:50:14.898 --> 01:50:19.918
You've been successful in getting people elected. So I was just kind of curious on that.

01:50:20.278 --> 01:50:22.498
Eric, when we have opening day,

01:50:22.498 --> 01:50:28.438
I shake, I'll shake 5,000 hands and give a whole lot of hugs to people.

01:50:28.838 --> 01:50:30.718
Nice to see you. Great to see you again.

01:50:31.991 --> 01:50:37.971
My first campaign in 92 was for an African-American state senator in Maryland

01:50:37.971 --> 01:50:39.551
who was running for Congress.

01:50:39.771 --> 01:50:47.631
His name was Albert Wynn, and he started out in fifth place in a seven-person field.

01:50:48.071 --> 01:50:52.851
The leader was at 27, and Albert was at five.

01:50:53.291 --> 01:50:57.411
And on election night in a seven-way primary, we won 29-27.

01:50:58.311 --> 01:51:04.431
And Albert Wynn, who was a large man, a large man, said, I hugged him so hard

01:51:04.431 --> 01:51:06.151
he thought I was going to break his ribs.

01:51:07.771 --> 01:51:11.651
I'm not hugging anybody that hard on opening night. I'm happy to see people,

01:51:11.771 --> 01:51:14.691
but there's something special about winning an election, man.

01:51:15.411 --> 01:51:21.531
I feel you. I feel you. And, you know, I definitely understand that feeling about winning.

01:51:22.671 --> 01:51:25.631
So I'm going to pick your brain a little bit about some baseball.

01:51:26.171 --> 01:51:31.731
I had and I know you're affiliated with the Royals I had picked that the and

01:51:31.731 --> 01:51:37.611
like I said I'm a big Cubs fan but the I picked the Dodgers to win the World Series again,

01:51:38.491 --> 01:51:44.331
what team do you think in observing what's going on do you think has a has a

01:51:44.331 --> 01:51:49.971
shot of beating them of beating the Dodgers yeah well I want to tell you the

01:51:49.971 --> 01:51:54.691
Royals I certainly do and we're still in it They're still in it.

01:51:54.951 --> 01:51:58.411
I was just going to say, the thing with the Royals is, you know,

01:51:58.671 --> 01:52:04.511
people in baseball will tell you the key to winning a short series is pitching.

01:52:05.011 --> 01:52:11.871
And that is the Royals' strength. And when you can roll out a rotation in a

01:52:11.871 --> 01:52:20.051
short series and you've got Cole Reagans is healthy and Noah Cameron, a former River Bandit,

01:52:20.571 --> 01:52:22.211
is pitching lights out.

01:52:22.411 --> 01:52:27.771
And Seth Lugo, who was number two in the Cy Young voting last year, and Michael Walker.

01:52:28.091 --> 01:52:31.371
Like, that's a strong lineup of pitchers.

01:52:32.333 --> 01:52:37.113
And you've got Bobby Witt in the field and Mikel Garcia, an all-star at third

01:52:37.113 --> 01:52:38.973
base, another former River Bandit.

01:52:39.653 --> 01:52:45.113
If their pitching holds and their hitters come alive at the right time,

01:52:45.253 --> 01:52:47.573
they could make a deep run.

01:52:47.773 --> 01:52:50.873
I'm optimistic about the Royals. I really am.

01:52:51.253 --> 01:52:54.993
Yeah, and you still got Mr. Perez back there catching. Yes, we do.

01:52:55.113 --> 01:52:59.013
He still can flash those rings that he got in the locker room.

01:52:59.013 --> 01:53:03.073
He, Salvie is a special guy.

01:53:03.233 --> 01:53:04.433
There's no question about it.

01:53:04.553 --> 01:53:08.533
And he's a, you know, he's, he's not just a great player. He's a leader.

01:53:08.733 --> 01:53:13.153
He's a clubhouse leader. And he's the kind of guy like, like Bobby who can put

01:53:13.153 --> 01:53:14.893
a team on his back and carry you.

01:53:15.253 --> 01:53:18.913
And again, that's what you need in a short series. Yeah.

01:53:19.473 --> 01:53:24.073
In the national league though, I, I wouldn't bet against the Dodgers. Yeah.

01:53:24.873 --> 01:53:29.213
I wouldn't bet against the Dodgers. I would tell you this, rooting for the Dodgers,

01:53:29.393 --> 01:53:33.333
you know, with the money they spend on payroll, it's sort of like,

01:53:33.333 --> 01:53:36.673
you know, rooting for Microsoft. Like, let's go blue.

01:53:38.653 --> 01:53:45.153
What's the fun in that? Well, I'm sure the folks in Chavez Ravine would differ with you on that.

01:53:45.253 --> 01:53:51.673
But I agree. I think that, you know, when I look at the Royals and the way that

01:53:51.673 --> 01:53:56.273
they're made up, it reminds me of my White Sox because I'm a Chicago baseball

01:53:56.273 --> 01:53:59.413
fan, period, but more Cubs than White Sox.

01:53:59.573 --> 01:54:04.473
But when the White Sox made that one in 2005, that's what got them over.

01:54:04.733 --> 01:54:09.513
They once that pitching rotation, you know, Duque and Buehrle and Freddie Garcia,

01:54:09.673 --> 01:54:14.553
once they gelled, they were, I think they only lost one game in the postseason.

01:54:14.553 --> 01:54:18.333
So it can happen. All you got to do is get in the dance.

01:54:18.573 --> 01:54:21.713
Once you get in the tournament, then anything can happen.

01:54:21.993 --> 01:54:29.233
Well, look, Dave, I know you got to go. And I greatly appreciate you spending some time.

01:54:29.473 --> 01:54:34.213
I've been very fortunate that I've been able to talk to some people in the political

01:54:34.213 --> 01:54:38.173
game, especially on the Democratic side, that have made a tremendous impact.

01:54:39.364 --> 01:54:46.284
And, you know, a lot of times, you know, those people, if you're in the political

01:54:46.284 --> 01:54:48.184
circle, everybody knows who you are.

01:54:48.284 --> 01:54:53.404
But it's like in the general scheme of things, all the general public knows is the candidate.

01:54:54.024 --> 01:54:57.864
And as somebody that has been a candidate and has been a staffer,

01:54:58.544 --> 01:55:04.164
the purpose of my podcast is sometimes not always get the highlight people,

01:55:04.364 --> 01:55:06.904
but get the folks that make the highlights happen.

01:55:06.904 --> 01:55:09.724
And you you've definitely been one of those people over

01:55:09.724 --> 01:55:12.624
the years so it's been an honor to talk to you

01:55:12.624 --> 01:55:18.764
and then you know the plus is you're a baseball guy and I you know as much as

01:55:18.764 --> 01:55:22.724
everybody loves football I love football and all that but baseball is always

01:55:22.724 --> 01:55:26.524
going to be my sport and I think it's one of the greatest games ever created

01:55:26.524 --> 01:55:30.444
and it was something you said you You said,

01:55:30.664 --> 01:55:35.704
and I'm paraphrasing, but it was like your dream would be to see one of your

01:55:35.704 --> 01:55:41.224
boys playing for the Quad City River Bandits at one point in time in your life while you owned them.

01:55:41.384 --> 01:55:44.564
So I definitely appreciate that passion.

01:55:45.244 --> 01:55:47.984
Yeah, I don't think that dream is going to come to fruition.

01:55:49.544 --> 01:55:54.144
Well, the Lord blessed my children, both my boys with a number of talents,

01:55:54.144 --> 01:55:56.284
but baseball is not one of them.

01:55:56.904 --> 01:55:59.644
That's okay. That's all right. That's right. Yeah.

01:56:00.084 --> 01:56:05.024
But again, seriously, though, I greatly appreciate you coming on and thank you for that.

01:56:05.644 --> 01:56:08.484
Oh, listen, Eric, it's a privilege to be here.

01:56:08.704 --> 01:56:14.364
I've had the unique privilege of having helped elect 10 different members of

01:56:14.364 --> 01:56:16.864
the Congressional Black Caucus over the course of my career.

01:56:17.604 --> 01:56:26.024
And I wouldn't be where I am without a number of African-American state senators

01:56:26.024 --> 01:56:31.524
and state reps believing in me and trusting in me and turning over their,

01:56:31.644 --> 01:56:35.424
putting their careers in my hand, you know, turning over their messaging to me.

01:56:35.744 --> 01:56:41.284
And I'm just glad by God's grace that we were able to be successful as often as we were. Yes, sir.

01:56:41.520 --> 01:56:52.080
Music.

01:56:59.862 --> 01:57:06.382
All right, and we are back. So I want to thank Wajahat Ali, Rick Roberts,

01:57:06.622 --> 01:57:09.542
and Dave Heller for coming on the podcast.

01:57:10.222 --> 01:57:14.982
To be able to get Dave and Waj on the show was tremendous.

01:57:15.722 --> 01:57:19.822
And, you know, because of their background, because of their success,

01:57:20.202 --> 01:57:25.742
because of their passion, It was really, really cool to have conversations with

01:57:25.742 --> 01:57:27.522
them and to formally meet them.

01:57:27.742 --> 01:57:33.662
And then to have my friend, Rick Roberts, coming back on.

01:57:33.822 --> 01:57:39.682
And I greatly appreciate somebody like him dedicating the time to explain,

01:57:39.682 --> 01:57:46.762
you know, what's going on with our economy. because it's really hard on mainstream media.

01:57:46.902 --> 01:57:52.282
And it's not necessarily a criticism of it, but it's really hard to get somebody

01:57:52.282 --> 01:57:57.102
in to take the time to explain some things and to really get into the meat of

01:57:57.102 --> 01:57:59.742
some questions that need to be asked.

01:58:00.542 --> 01:58:04.422
And, you know, I think this was Rick's third appearance on the show,

01:58:04.462 --> 01:58:08.062
and he's even contributed, you know,

01:58:08.182 --> 01:58:15.242
in just written form, you know, some thoughts and ideas about what's going on

01:58:15.242 --> 01:58:17.502
based on his training and his experience.

01:58:18.102 --> 01:58:22.442
And so it was really, it's really cool to always get him on.

01:58:23.242 --> 01:58:26.702
And I hope that you enjoyed those conversations.

01:58:27.362 --> 01:58:32.702
And I hope that for folks that need some hope that you got that,

01:58:33.002 --> 01:58:37.362
for folks that have concerns, I hope those concerns were addressed, right?

01:58:38.862 --> 01:58:43.222
But I want to close out real quick, because I know this has been a long show,

01:58:43.362 --> 01:58:47.122
but I want to, I got to say something about John Cornyn.

01:58:47.242 --> 01:58:51.002
And I had promised during Dave's interview, since he brought it up,

01:58:51.122 --> 01:58:52.482
that I was going to talk about it.

01:58:53.082 --> 01:58:55.562
And it's really, really interesting.

01:58:56.325 --> 01:59:01.325
Indictment about political opportunism and hypocrisy, right?

01:59:02.085 --> 01:59:08.025
So John Cornyn is a former judge who has been in the U.S. Senate for a long

01:59:08.025 --> 01:59:09.405
time now out of the state of Texas.

01:59:09.565 --> 01:59:12.345
He's a senior senator out of the state of Texas.

01:59:13.085 --> 01:59:19.825
And to be honest, I've never been a big fan of his, even when he has shown a

01:59:19.825 --> 01:59:25.205
moderate side and supported some issues that we believed in.

01:59:25.205 --> 01:59:34.385
And, you know, he originally had been of the old traditional small government,

01:59:34.745 --> 01:59:42.425
you know, fiscally responsible or fiscally conservative wing of the Republican Party.

01:59:42.425 --> 01:59:48.765
But now, with his recent actions, he's gone MAGA, and he feels like he has to

01:59:48.765 --> 01:59:54.945
because another criminal is running against him for the United States Senate,

01:59:55.085 --> 01:59:57.725
Ken Paxson. He's going to challenge him in the primary.

01:59:58.645 --> 02:00:04.985
So, you know, whoever the Democrat turns out to be, whether it's Colin Allred or whoever,

02:00:05.365 --> 02:00:09.365
I would encourage the people of Texas to support the Democratic nominee because

02:00:09.365 --> 02:00:14.465
if your choice is between John Cornyn and Ken Paxton, you don't have a choice.

02:00:14.465 --> 02:00:21.745
But Cornyn, playing a political opportunistic game, has used his power as U.S.

02:00:21.865 --> 02:00:27.525
Senator to try to activate the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI.

02:00:28.959 --> 02:00:34.339
To an issue that the state of Texas is dealing with.

02:00:34.839 --> 02:00:40.499
Now, it doesn't matter that Donald Trump, President Trump, convinced the governor,

02:00:40.979 --> 02:00:48.299
Greg Abbott, and you've heard my opinions about him, to try to redistrict in

02:00:48.299 --> 02:00:50.999
the middle of this 10-year cycle.

02:00:51.419 --> 02:00:57.239
Every 10 years, based on the census, we're supposed to do what we call reapportionment

02:00:57.239 --> 02:01:04.299
and determine how many states, I mean, how many Congress House members the states

02:01:04.299 --> 02:01:06.179
will be allocated, right?

02:01:06.299 --> 02:01:11.579
The smaller states will get one, you know, the larger states will get however

02:01:11.579 --> 02:01:17.819
many, and it's based on the population. So right now the means is like 750,000

02:01:17.819 --> 02:01:19.879
people per district, right?

02:01:20.179 --> 02:01:25.159
So those states, they have less than 750,000 people, they only get one representative.

02:01:25.299 --> 02:01:29.139
They still get two senators by virtue of being a state, but they only get one

02:01:29.139 --> 02:01:30.199
representative, right?

02:01:30.679 --> 02:01:33.979
And then the bigger states get multiple options.

02:01:34.159 --> 02:01:38.859
California has the most with 53, right? And Texas, I think, is number two.

02:01:39.719 --> 02:01:43.019
And so based on the census,

02:01:43.739 --> 02:01:50.319
it was supposed to be four additional seats that were supposed to go to,

02:01:50.659 --> 02:01:55.839
at least three were supposed to ideally be represented by somebody from the

02:01:55.839 --> 02:02:00.159
Latino community and then one could have been a black seat or whatever,

02:02:00.299 --> 02:02:01.899
but it was supposed to be Democratic, right?

02:02:02.479 --> 02:02:09.079
But Texas, and I explained this on the last show, Texas did their thing because

02:02:09.079 --> 02:02:12.399
it was a republican-controlled state legislature, and,

02:02:13.639 --> 02:02:19.119
those majority, minority seats didn't happen. And.

02:02:20.604 --> 02:02:26.624
They want to make it even worse, right? So, the Democrats in the state legislature

02:02:26.624 --> 02:02:32.544
left, and they've done this before when dealing with voting rights.

02:02:33.144 --> 02:02:36.364
And as a matter of fact, Jasmine Crockett, who's now a U.S. Congresswoman,

02:02:36.724 --> 02:02:39.544
was a state legislator when they did it before.

02:02:39.704 --> 02:02:44.924
They left the state, so they wouldn't have a quorum, right?

02:02:45.024 --> 02:02:47.764
And if you don't have a quorum, you can't take any action.

02:02:48.644 --> 02:02:53.424
So the Democrats did that again, because the special session was called to deal

02:02:53.424 --> 02:02:58.644
with the flooding that happened in Texas, where those young girls got killed

02:02:58.644 --> 02:03:03.304
in the camp, and over 100 some people died in that.

02:03:03.664 --> 02:03:09.384
And so the main issue was to try to make sure that doesn't happen again.

02:03:11.224 --> 02:03:16.784
And, you know, it just reminds me of when we had our special session after Katrina,

02:03:16.784 --> 02:03:21.124
and the whole purpose was to deal with how we were going to help the people

02:03:21.124 --> 02:03:27.904
recover, and the first bill we brought out was moving casinos 800 feet, right,

02:03:28.804 --> 02:03:35.284
inland, which I vigorously opposed, right, because that wasn't the time to do that.

02:03:36.104 --> 02:03:42.044
Nonetheless, so So Texas has decided to veer from dealing with the tragedy that

02:03:42.044 --> 02:03:46.844
they were called to deal with and now have created a crisis.

02:03:47.664 --> 02:03:51.324
And so the House Democrats in Texas left.

02:03:51.884 --> 02:03:56.444
Someone went to Chicago, someone to New York, somewhere in D.C.

02:03:56.764 --> 02:04:00.964
You know, they scattered around a few stayed just to kind of monitor,

02:04:01.224 --> 02:04:05.784
but made sure that it was not enough where they could say, oh,

02:04:06.084 --> 02:04:08.844
we got a quorum. We can pass this through. Right.

02:04:09.404 --> 02:04:16.104
So because those legislators left, now Governor Abbott wants to vacate their seats.

02:04:17.084 --> 02:04:22.484
It's going to be up to the Texas Supreme Court to determine, can he do that? Right.

02:04:23.224 --> 02:04:31.664
Ken Paxton, a criminal, wants to arrest them or arrest the ones that are in

02:04:31.664 --> 02:04:35.244
Texas that are not showing up in Austin to the Capitol.

02:04:35.244 --> 02:04:39.224
But for everybody else, they can't touch them.

02:04:39.584 --> 02:04:43.784
Really, that's why they learned from the first time is to get out of the state.

02:04:44.244 --> 02:04:50.204
Right. So the Texas Marshals, Texas Rangers or whoever they send after them can't touch him.

02:04:51.104 --> 02:04:54.904
So now John Cornyn, because Ken Paxton is running against him for the U.S.

02:04:55.024 --> 02:05:00.544
Senate, now he wants to use and exert his authority as a senior senator from

02:05:00.544 --> 02:05:04.664
the state of Texas to ask the FBI to get these people.

02:05:05.524 --> 02:05:07.324
Ladies and gentlemen, the FBI can't do that.

02:05:08.731 --> 02:05:12.331
Not in their purview because they didn't commit a crime. They just,

02:05:12.571 --> 02:05:15.991
they're not going to participate in the voting process.

02:05:16.191 --> 02:05:18.051
Now it's costing these people money.

02:05:18.471 --> 02:05:23.311
It's costing them connection with their families, but it's the sacrifice they're

02:05:23.311 --> 02:05:29.691
willing to make to preserve democracy and make sure that this rig,

02:05:30.151 --> 02:05:35.571
this attempt to rig the election in 2026 does not happen, at least not in Texas.

02:05:37.391 --> 02:05:41.891
And of course, the fail safe is that, you know, we got this guy in Indiana,

02:05:42.111 --> 02:05:46.951
Baldwin, who's lieutenant governor there, who absolutely has no clue.

02:05:47.291 --> 02:05:50.471
Obviously, he slept through all of his U.S. history classes,

02:05:50.891 --> 02:05:51.991
civics classes, whatever.

02:05:52.811 --> 02:05:56.491
He's the one who went viral and said that the three-fifths compromise had nothing

02:05:56.491 --> 02:05:58.471
to do with slavery, for example.

02:05:58.991 --> 02:06:04.131
And he just said something else asinine that's going viral now.

02:06:04.971 --> 02:06:11.471
But, you know, they're looking at people like him to try to do the same thing

02:06:11.471 --> 02:06:15.631
in their respective states, Indiana and a couple of other states that,

02:06:16.211 --> 02:06:18.091
you know, if they can pull this off in Texas.

02:06:18.751 --> 02:06:23.291
But as long as the Democrats and the House of Representatives in Texas stay

02:06:23.291 --> 02:06:25.731
away, they'll never have a quorum.

02:06:26.151 --> 02:06:29.211
And the target date is August the 30th.

02:06:29.611 --> 02:06:35.951
If they stay away until then, then the session dissolves, especially the special session dissolves.

02:06:36.711 --> 02:06:42.131
Now, Abbott could call another one if he wants to, but, you know,

02:06:42.371 --> 02:06:44.291
it's just going to keep going and going.

02:06:44.431 --> 02:06:48.311
And in the meantime, you know, the issue that they're supposed to be dealing

02:06:48.311 --> 02:06:53.471
with won't be addressed because they're trying to cater to President Trump.

02:06:54.651 --> 02:07:07.611
But for John Cornyn to cater to MAGA and utter the words FBI is such a hypocrisy.

02:07:07.751 --> 02:07:11.111
I mean, he's for smaller government, as Dave pointed out.

02:07:12.422 --> 02:07:17.502
That's government overreach. You want the federal government, the leading,

02:07:17.942 --> 02:07:23.102
well, ICE is technically the leading law enforcement agency now under this administration,

02:07:23.362 --> 02:07:28.942
but the leading law enforcement agency in the country.

02:07:29.182 --> 02:07:35.402
You want them to arrest elected officials who are exercising their right of

02:07:35.402 --> 02:07:41.342
protest, their right of free speech by not participating in this sham.

02:07:42.462 --> 02:07:45.622
Whatever respect I had for John Cornyn is totally gone.

02:07:46.002 --> 02:07:50.142
And I know he doesn't care about me or anybody else that says that,

02:07:50.462 --> 02:07:52.302
but the people of Texas should.

02:07:52.602 --> 02:07:56.042
Now, if you're a Republican, again, you don't have much of a choice.

02:07:56.442 --> 02:08:02.182
You could keep Cornyn in on the Republican side, or you can vote for Ken Paxton,

02:08:02.302 --> 02:08:04.142
who should be in jail, right?

02:08:04.782 --> 02:08:08.642
At the very least, he should be disbarred. And that's a whole nother thing.

02:08:08.782 --> 02:08:12.002
Why are these people still allowed to practice law?

02:08:12.422 --> 02:08:18.662
That are constantly, day by day, violating the U.S.

02:08:18.782 --> 02:08:21.082
Constitution, the laws of their respective states.

02:08:21.262 --> 02:08:26.882
How are they doing? We've had some people disbarred, but not enough.

02:08:27.762 --> 02:08:31.842
You know, Ken Paxton should not be the attorney general by virtue of the fact

02:08:31.842 --> 02:08:33.942
that he shouldn't be able to practice law in Texas.

02:08:34.882 --> 02:08:39.222
If it wasn't for his now soon-to-be ex-wife, he would have been impeached.

02:08:40.022 --> 02:08:45.342
He would have been removed from office. That's how bad he was or is, right?

02:08:46.502 --> 02:08:50.302
When he wants to arrest people. It's like the last person that should be saying

02:08:50.302 --> 02:08:56.042
arrest anybody is somebody that got away with criminal activity in Texas, right?

02:08:56.662 --> 02:09:00.122
Doesn't matter what your title is, but he shouldn't even be there.

02:09:00.302 --> 02:09:06.522
But nonetheless, Cornyn doesn't deserve to stay in the United States Senate either.

02:09:07.122 --> 02:09:10.562
Paxton doesn't deserve to be there, but Cornyn doesn't deserve to stay.

02:09:11.662 --> 02:09:16.822
Because instead of being the voice of reason, instead of positioning himself

02:09:16.822 --> 02:09:26.242
to work out a compromise, to intervene even, he capitulates because Paxton is running against him.

02:09:26.902 --> 02:09:29.162
And at some point in time, you

02:09:29.162 --> 02:09:33.102
know, if you had only been there like one term, like six years, I get it.

02:09:33.142 --> 02:09:35.942
You might want to serve another term, but you've been there a long time.

02:09:36.522 --> 02:09:42.082
Is it really worth it? Is it really worth compromising your integrity and your

02:09:42.082 --> 02:09:45.702
decency if you had any of those things? Your character?

02:09:47.324 --> 02:09:51.884
You can stay in office. All these people talk about they're Christians and all this stuff.

02:09:52.004 --> 02:09:54.544
And it's like, it's very clear in the Bible that says, you know,

02:09:54.724 --> 02:10:00.724
what good is it for a man to own the world and lose his soul?

02:10:01.664 --> 02:10:03.564
Right? Why?

02:10:04.544 --> 02:10:07.564
Why? I mean, that's just the question. Why?

02:10:10.484 --> 02:10:17.104
So, I just implore people, whether it's in Texas, Montana, Georgia,

02:10:17.304 --> 02:10:23.244
Mississippi, Illinois, Maryland, Maine, Iowa, California, Oregon,

02:10:23.404 --> 02:10:24.764
whatever, wherever you are.

02:10:25.744 --> 02:10:30.524
I need y'all to open your eyes. I need you to pay attention, right?

02:10:30.904 --> 02:10:34.984
I need y'all, in Florida, I need y'all to just look at what's happening.

02:10:35.204 --> 02:10:36.964
Oklahoma, just look what's happening.

02:10:37.704 --> 02:10:42.344
Look at the damage that these people have wrought in just six months.

02:10:43.184 --> 02:10:49.384
Now, we can make the argument that has been building all these years since Obama got sworn in in 2009.

02:10:49.904 --> 02:10:56.404
But at some point in time, ladies and gentlemen, we have to decide enough is enough.

02:10:57.244 --> 02:11:00.684
Again, the call is for American leadership.

02:11:01.184 --> 02:11:06.644
It's for people that give a damn about Americans, not about their own self-interest.

02:11:06.644 --> 02:11:15.804
Right it's time for us to do better and not settle for these type of people

02:11:15.804 --> 02:11:20.984
right political expediency is a very very addictive drug.

02:11:22.595 --> 02:11:26.155
And it's very easy to get hooked on it.

02:11:27.055 --> 02:11:31.195
But the antidote to that is accountability to the people.

02:11:31.835 --> 02:11:35.755
And if the people, it's one thing for Congress to advocate their duty.

02:11:35.935 --> 02:11:39.115
It's one thing for the U.S. Supreme Court to abdicate their duty.

02:11:39.315 --> 02:11:41.695
But the American people cannot.

02:11:42.715 --> 02:11:48.115
We have to let our voices be heard. We have to stand up to this.

02:11:48.575 --> 02:11:50.435
And we have to get these people out.

02:11:51.175 --> 02:11:56.675
And in our conversations, we understand that what's being done now is going

02:11:56.675 --> 02:11:58.515
to take a generation or two to fix.

02:11:59.175 --> 02:12:01.895
But we've got to be in this for the long haul.

02:12:02.675 --> 02:12:08.175
This country will be celebrating its 250th year of independence next year.

02:12:08.695 --> 02:12:17.715
If we want to see another 250 years as a nation, today is the day that we take

02:12:17.715 --> 02:12:19.095
action to make that happen.

02:12:20.075 --> 02:12:26.695
We've got to get people in that give a damn about us and not their addiction

02:12:26.695 --> 02:12:28.015
to political expediency.

02:12:28.695 --> 02:12:33.055
We've got to get people that have integrity and character. We don't want perfect

02:12:33.055 --> 02:12:34.715
people because there's no such thing.

02:12:35.155 --> 02:12:40.615
But we want people to understand what their job really is, who they're supposed

02:12:40.615 --> 02:12:45.995
to be working for, and are committed and passionate to doing the right thing.

02:12:47.095 --> 02:12:52.715
Now doing the right thing does not mean that there's just one solution to do

02:12:52.715 --> 02:12:54.895
that there's one opinion to do that but.

02:12:56.371 --> 02:13:01.691
Reasonable people can come to consensus. And right now, we got a bunch of unreasonable

02:13:01.691 --> 02:13:04.131
people in positions of power.

02:13:04.691 --> 02:13:09.691
So it doesn't matter what political stripe you fall under, right?

02:13:09.791 --> 02:13:12.031
Which tribe that you connect with.

02:13:12.351 --> 02:13:17.631
The goal is to get reasonable people in the positions to represent you.

02:13:18.051 --> 02:13:24.071
Bottom line, if there's some reasonable Republicans out there, find them, elect them.

02:13:25.011 --> 02:13:28.511
There's definitely some reasonable Democrats out there. Support them.

02:13:29.271 --> 02:13:33.611
It's not going to be a clean sweep, regardless of how I feel.

02:13:34.551 --> 02:13:41.671
But at this point in time, if John Cornyn and Ken t are your best options

02:13:41.671 --> 02:13:47.691
in Texas as a Republican, then it's time to look at the Democratic side, period.

02:13:48.471 --> 02:13:55.111
It's time to get behind those men and women that are risking financial and personal sacrifices.

02:13:55.211 --> 02:13:58.431
They're making personal and financial sacrifices.

02:13:59.371 --> 02:14:03.511
And to be honest, risking their lives because there was a bomb threat at one

02:14:03.511 --> 02:14:07.211
of the hotels that these Texas representatives were staying in.

02:14:07.831 --> 02:14:10.971
They're doing that for you. They're doing that for the nation.

02:14:11.731 --> 02:14:16.711
They're doing it for our future. It's not about ego. It's not about comfort.

02:14:17.271 --> 02:14:18.531
It's about doing the right thing.

02:14:19.151 --> 02:14:23.751
And we need to show our gratitude. And we do that by supporting them.

02:14:23.920 --> 02:15:17.774
Music.