Straw & Wool & A Question of Paternity Featuring Ali Nervis, Henry Dickerson and David Tereshchuk

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Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

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this moment a movement thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time

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i hope you enjoy this episode as well,

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the following program is hosted by the nbg podcast network.

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Music.

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Welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host,

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Eric Fleming, and I am really, really excited about this particular episode.

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One, because you're not going to do any kind of postmortem about the election, at least not my guest.

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Anyway, we're going to talk about some positive things that's happening.

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We've got some black business men that we're going to talk to and we're going to talk to an author.

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Who, you know, was an investigative reporter and biggest assignment was trying

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to find out something about his past.

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Right. And so he wrote a book about that. So we're going to we're going to get

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into that. I do want to say.

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The circus has started.

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And when we when you hear some of the headlines with with my good friend,

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Grace G, and she does her moment of news, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

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If you haven't been following the news, President-elect Trump has started his

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announcements on who's going to be in his cabinet.

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And all the folks that we were afraid were going to be in the cabinet,

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they're getting in there.

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So, like I said, the surrogates has begun.

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And as we go on this journey, and I'll have a little more to say at the other

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end after the interviews.

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But, yeah, let's buckle up, guys.

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As T.O. used to say, let's get that popcorn ready because it's going to be an interesting ride.

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All right, guys, let's go ahead and get this show started. And as always,

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we started off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Music.

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Republicans will keep their majority in the U.S. House of Representatives to

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give them control of both Houses of Congress for the first time since 2019.

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Senator John Thune of South Dakota was chosen as the new Republican leader of

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the U.S. Senate, replacing Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

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President-elect Donald Trump announced some of his appointments for his new

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administration, including Senator Marco Rubio as Secretary of State and South

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Dakota Governor Kristi Noem as Secretary of Homeland Security.

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Representative matt gates resigned from

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congress following the announcement that president-elect trump

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appointed him as the nominee for attorney general

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the u.s supreme court denied former white house chief of staff mark meadows's

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request to transfer his georgia election interference case from state to federal

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court a federal judge paused deadlines in trump's election subversion case as

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prosecutors navigate the complexities of his potential return to the presidency.

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Massachusetts Air National Guard member Jack Teixeira was sentenced to 15 years

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in prison for leaking classified military documents.

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FEMA fired an employee who recommended that staff avoid North Carolina homes

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with Trump-supporting yard signs.

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A federal judge ruled that a Louisiana law mandating the display of the Ten

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Commandments in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.

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A Texas judge ruled against President Biden's immigration program that aimed

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to provide a path to citizenship for certain immigrant spouses.

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An Illinois law banning many semi-automatic firearms was struck down by a federal judge.

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Raleigh, North Carolina police arrested a man accused of a series of random

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vehicle shootings, charging him with multiple counts related to the incidents.

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And Judith Jamison, former artistic director of the Alvin Ailey American Dance

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Theater, passed away at the age of 81.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been A Moment of.

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Music.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for my first guest.

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And their names are Ollie Nervous and Henry Dickerson.

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And they are the founders of Straw and Hat.

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I mean, Straw and Wool. I'm sorry. They're a hat company. Straw and Wool.

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Their hat company is based in Phoenix. So let me go ahead and do the intro.

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Founded in February 2020, the founders, Ollie Nervous and Henry Dickerson,

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have always had a love for style, and each has had their individual experience

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with selling men's accessories independently for several years.

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With Phoenix being such a transplant town, having residents from all over the

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country, many of whom have a deep appreciation for classic hats,

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the three came together to create a destination for hat lovers and hat newbies alike.

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Genuine interest in their customers and the community embodies who they are as a brand.

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Their mission is to bring a sense of style and pride to the Phoenix Valley and

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beyond while providing the best shopping experience and variety of quality headwear

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and accessories to their customers.

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While also supporting the community through various philanthropic efforts from

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fundraising to direct donations.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, the founders of Straw and Wool, Ollie Nervous and Henry Dickerson.

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Music.

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All right. I got Henry Dickerson and Ollie Nervous. How y'all brothers doing? Y'all doing good?

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Peace. Great, brother. Much stuff, man. I'm doing lovely.

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Now, these gentlemen, for those in the listening audience, own this company

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called Straw and Wool, and it is a hat company.

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And for those people who know me, know that I like wearing a good brim on a good occasion.

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But these guys are like professionals at it. They're the ones that they've started

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a business in Phoenix, Arizona. These are black men.

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I'll get into that in a minute. But these are black men who have started a business

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in Phoenix, Arizona, a hat business.

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And I wanted to talk to them about being a black business in this time and some

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of the work that they're doing beyond the business.

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So, gentlemen, what I like to do at the beginning of the interview is to throw a quote at the guest.

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So both of y'all can answer it or whoever you designate to answer it.

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But the quote is, black businesses are the heart of local communities across

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this country. What does that quote mean to y'all?

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What does that mean? The heart of local communities.

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I would like to think so. But if that is made as a statement of fact,

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that means we might need a pacemaker, because I don't know if black businesses

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have a stable enough footing to be able to keep the blood pumping at this point.

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Okay, that was Henry. Ali, you want to add to that? Yeah, I would just add to

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that and say that they can, we can and we should and we have the potential to be.

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Because our will, our determination, our love and our passion for community

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has the ability to inspire, right?

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And to provide that foundation for the local community across this country.

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But as Henry put it, right, speaking as black business owners.

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Right, we've come up against so much.

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There's been so much that's been thrown at us as a people throughout history

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that, you know, the heartbeat is weak.

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And so we have to do what is necessary to strengthen our heartbeat so that we

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can be that true heartbeat for the community and for the economy, if you will.

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Yeah, I want to stay on that for a minute because, you know,

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historically, we had no choice, right?

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At one point in time in the history of this country, we had to have our own

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businesses because we weren't allowed to patronize other businesses.

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I like to say my light-skinned cousins.

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We weren't able to go into their shops, at least with any dignity anyway.

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And so I think historically, black businesses have been the heart.

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But to Henry's point, I think once that veil of segregation was lifted,

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that has been harder for black businesses to sustain and continue to be as viable

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as they were, say, 60 years ago. Is that a fair statement?

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It's an absolute truth.

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We see it every day. And the the hard the hardest part is, you know,

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those who are who are truly, you know, up front about being a black owned business

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and being a proud black owned business.

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We we we miss out on the on reaching a lot of consumers in the dominant culture.

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Right. Whether it's because we can't compete or whether it's because of discrimination

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or whatever the reason is.

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But we also miss out on getting support from our own community.

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Right. Because of what you just mentioned. And so,

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yeah, it's a definite fact and something that we have to address or something

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that we have to fix if we're going to be able to if we're going to be able to

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grow and thrive and succeed as business people.

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Yeah, and I would also like to add to it, too, with the statement itself,

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the heartbeat of the community, what community are we speaking about?

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Because we know that in the dominant community, we're not, you know, we're not even close.

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And in our community, we struggle supporting each other.

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For, you know, a lot of reasons historically that's ingrained in us and things

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that we're coming around from and even understanding that the dynamics.

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We still see we got canceled already.

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No, no, y'all didn't get canceled. It was just it was just a slight glitch in the thing.

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But I think I got the gist of Henry, what you were saying.

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So let's so let's let's keep the interview going. And let's let's talk about

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the origin of strong wool.

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How did y'all come about? Because we understand y'all had a business like in

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2017 and then y'all ventured from that business and got into the hat business.

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So kind of talk about how you started strong wool.

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So where we started was our community work

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as as a small business owner

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at the time with a product that was specifically for for black people me and

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my wife used to travel across the country to find events where there'd be large

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galleries of black folk to to sell our products and then one day we decided

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we shouldn't have to go across the country to find black people you know even

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as you insinuated early on that,

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believe it or not, there's black people in Phoenix type thing. But we knew we were here.

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You know, we just had to find a reason to bring them out.

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So so we got with Ali and his wife and we started a marketplace to showcase

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black home businesses locally.

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You know, it went like gangbusters. A lot of people was telling us that it's it's not going to work.

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There's not a lot of black people there. And we told him we just need enough.

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So, you know, we it took off.

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And as part of that process, evaluating the landscape, not too many businesses

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had things for men specifically.

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So after doing some research, landed on hats to just fill the void in the marketplace.

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So when men came, they would have something to shop, shop for.

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And then in between marketplaces, we would have them like on Facebook marketplace

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or offer up or what have you. And we found out that there's a void in the city.

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So from that, we did a little pop-up shop inside Ali's bookstore,

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which is the only black owned bookstore here in Arizona, which is grassroots bookstore.

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And we did our grand opening three days before quarantine.

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But we got such a good response from the community. During quarantine,

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we built our presence online.

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And since then, and putting our foot on the gas, opened our second location

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in Los Angeles a couple of months ago.

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And I believe we're one of, if not the largest black owned hat company in the country.

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So, so, so we, so we bear this flag for our nonprofit and our community work

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of some more supporting black owned businesses and just trying to show as a,

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should be an example of what can be.

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Yeah. So you, you mentioned that y'all started literally right before the pandemic hit.

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How did you what specifically did you do to navigate that and what did you learn from that experience?

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It cut out for a second. Can you say it one more time?

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What I was saying is that the pandemic y'all started literally just before the pandemic hit.

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How did y'all navigate that and what did you learn from that experience?

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Man, you know, it was it was definitely baptism by fire.

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You know we had to learn very quick we had

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to we had to learn to how

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to how to engage with people online because we weren't able to engage in person

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right and so we we literally built our e-commerce platform at that time we started

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our social media at that time and we just started to come up with creative ways

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to to engage with people online but it really was one of the best environment,

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as ironic as it sounds, one of the best environments to start in because,

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you know, we were just, we had to figure everything out on the fly.

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And so one thing that was also helpful at the time was, you know,

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people were at home, but they wanted to shop.

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They wanted to get dressed up. They wanted to look nice, even if they were just

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sitting around the house.

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And so, you know, we were really poised to do a really good business as things,

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you know, started to open back up as, you know, people started to go back outside

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again and wanted to go out and be amongst other people again.

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And so, you know, it was, it was a lot of hard work, but it was also,

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you know, really great timing.

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And we're fortunate to be, you know, in that place in that moment.

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Yeah. I don't, I don't think any of, I don't think where we are right now is

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possible if we didn't start when we started, because even the location where

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we have our store at downtown Phoenix was another store to close because of COVID. it.

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So we were able to come in this prime location in downtown Phoenix and scoop

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up the majority of the block to where we now have multiple black owned businesses

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on one of the busiest stretches in Phoenix.

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And with having that time to, you can't go outside. So, you know,

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you got to do something. So we learned this business.

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We connected to the greater hat community, as opposed to when we started,

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we just planned on being a local hat shop because there was none.

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But once we tapped into, like Ali mentioned, tapped into the worldwide community

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that allow us to flourish.

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And, you know, with having a lot of time on our hands that allow us to strategize

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and really position ourselves to win.

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Yeah. So what is the significance of you having that business at the Roosevelt Road Arts District?

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I've been to Phoenix once and I didn't get to really see the city and all that,

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but it seems like being in this particular spot is one of the prime spots in the city.

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So kind of talk about the significance of being there in the Roosevelt Roads Arts District.

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Yeah, it definitely is. I think it's one of the top arts districts and destinations

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in America. It gets a ton of tourist traffic, ton of local traffic.

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And so for us to to have our business here, but not just our business here,

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but to have a strong presence here for our entire for our community.

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Right. As he mentioned, it's there's three businesses, three black owned businesses

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that were that were affiliated with.

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My Strong Wool, Stardust and Sage, which is owned by by Henry's wife.

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Havana and Acres Community Creators Marketplace, which is owned by our nonprofit,

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which is a a boutique for artisans, for small businesses to have their products

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in the stores, mostly for the vendors that we work with at our marketplace.

00:19:28.751 --> 00:19:31.611
Now there's a brick and mortar concept where they can have their product.

00:19:31.831 --> 00:19:35.451
Right. And so what it means is.

00:19:35.780 --> 00:19:39.400
Imagine going to any city in America, Phoenix, even though, you know,

00:19:39.520 --> 00:19:42.120
people don't look at it that way. It's the fifth largest city in the country.

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:48.280
Right. So imagine going to any city in America to a prominent downtown district

00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:53.780
and seeing multiple black owned businesses right next to each other or all in the same area.

00:19:53.780 --> 00:19:57.680
You know what that means for our community, what that means for black business.

00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:01.640
I think it's it's a testament to the support of the community.

00:20:01.820 --> 00:20:06.060
It's a testament to what's possible when we work together, because,

00:20:06.300 --> 00:20:09.100
you know, we don't do this in a silo. We work with community,

00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:11.880
but we also, you know, we have a strongly committed team.

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:16.340
In addition to us who are leading the charge, we have a strong committed team

00:20:16.340 --> 00:20:19.220
who are who are alongside us on this journey.

00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:24.220
And so I think it is just a testament of what's possible. And this is just the beginning.

00:20:24.460 --> 00:20:30.060
Right. We we we need and we deserve much more than this.

00:20:30.300 --> 00:20:34.940
Right. But this is just to show. And also we revitalize this area.

00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:39.360
So when we came here, all of these businesses were closed, right?

00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:45.160
This strip of Roosevelt Road they were on, it didn't have a lot of activity.

00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:50.520
And so not only have we opened our three businesses, but we've inspired other

00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:55.040
people to come and open businesses right on this block next to ours because

00:20:55.040 --> 00:20:57.020
they see what's happening, they

00:20:57.020 --> 00:21:00.260
see the activity, and they see the opportunity that exists here. Yeah.

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.980
Even the you know, we had to look at the scope a little bit different recently,

00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:09.440
too, because, as you said, there's been a lot of people that see the traffic

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:10.600
that we brought here now.

00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.220
And I'm like, hold up. I need to get a piece of that. So, I mean,

00:21:15.300 --> 00:21:17.140
you got one business a couple of doors down.

00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:22.360
They spent over a million dollars for their location and they're about to close

00:21:22.360 --> 00:21:27.340
pretty soon, too. And some of these businesses that have opened on our block

00:21:27.340 --> 00:21:30.120
have not had the success that we've had.

00:21:31.324 --> 00:21:36.344
And, you know, and we've looked at this as look at what we've done as black owned businesses.

00:21:36.624 --> 00:21:43.444
But in reality, when we look at everything, it's no, we did this regardless of race.

00:21:43.624 --> 00:21:46.744
You know, we just happen to be black, but we revitalized this.

00:21:46.844 --> 00:21:51.104
So we're not going to look at our success just through the lenses of a black owned business.

00:21:51.344 --> 00:21:55.484
We're forcing people to recognize our success and what we've done for this stretch

00:21:55.484 --> 00:21:58.104
as vital businesses, period.

00:21:58.364 --> 00:22:01.784
So don't just pay us attention to our black history month. You know,

00:22:01.904 --> 00:22:06.904
you really need to take notice of what we've done and the tax dollars that we

00:22:06.904 --> 00:22:08.724
brought in and the people that we've inspired.

00:22:09.084 --> 00:22:12.064
Even people moving here after they come here and they say, oh,

00:22:12.144 --> 00:22:14.164
wow, black people really doing it here.

00:22:14.364 --> 00:22:17.464
And next thing you know, they their residents here. So we're forcing people

00:22:17.464 --> 00:22:22.224
to look at what we do, our success outside of the scope is just a black owned business.

00:22:22.484 --> 00:22:27.224
But, no, we really did something that these other businesses haven't been able

00:22:27.224 --> 00:22:29.204
to do and still can't do on this stretch.

00:22:29.944 --> 00:22:34.784
The property value has raised since we've been here and activating this area.

00:22:35.024 --> 00:22:39.244
Like we said, a number of businesses have moved to this area since we've been here.

00:22:39.484 --> 00:22:45.444
And, you know, it's unfortunate because we weren't in a position to buy and own. Right.

00:22:45.624 --> 00:22:51.504
So we we've benefited the area. But, you know, as as individuals and as a business,

00:22:51.704 --> 00:22:56.624
we haven't necessarily benefited from the activity and the revitalization that we brought to the area.

00:22:57.530 --> 00:23:03.410
Got you. But and those are incredible points because you you you know,

00:23:03.590 --> 00:23:09.750
you want to remind people that y'all are not looking for sympathy or anything

00:23:09.750 --> 00:23:13.450
like that or an uneven playing field.

00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:16.150
Y'all just want the opportunity to do

00:23:16.150 --> 00:23:19.050
what you want to do and you know

00:23:19.050 --> 00:23:24.110
you you shot down a myth about property value brother Ali when you talked about

00:23:24.110 --> 00:23:29.130
how the value of the property is going up because y'all are there as opposed

00:23:29.130 --> 00:23:33.330
to the myth that's always when we show up oh the property value is going to

00:23:33.330 --> 00:23:37.990
go down the neighborhood is going to go down and all that stuff if it wasn't for you all,

00:23:38.150 --> 00:23:41.330
that area probably would not be thriving as it is.

00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:45.710
Right. Right. So let me ask you this question.

00:23:46.030 --> 00:23:52.690
Did the exposure from ESPN help y'all or what?

00:23:53.530 --> 00:23:58.070
Absolutely. Yeah. Without a doubt, it's been one of the biggest,

00:23:58.070 --> 00:24:03.990
you know, boons for our business from exposure to sales, you know, to credibility.

00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:06.530
Yeah. 100%.

00:24:08.030 --> 00:24:12.650
And sometimes, you know, too much because a lot of people recognize this that

00:24:12.650 --> 00:24:13.830
we don't even realize why.

00:24:15.070 --> 00:24:20.950
Yeah. You know, and one of the things that we talk about on this show is,

00:24:21.190 --> 00:24:27.910
you know, during during COVID was also, you know, the summer of George Floyd,

00:24:28.090 --> 00:24:29.970
the summer of black resistance.

00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:35.370
And all these corporations were like, oh, well, now we got to we got to do something

00:24:35.370 --> 00:24:40.650
for black folks. We've got to recognize businesses and all these different programs came up.

00:24:40.830 --> 00:24:48.890
And so to actually talk to somebody who has participated in one of those efforts, if you will.

00:24:49.896 --> 00:24:55.356
You know, I'm glad to hear that it did have the impact that it was supposed to have.

00:24:55.676 --> 00:25:00.736
My concern is now that that that's not the flavor of the month anymore.

00:25:01.076 --> 00:25:10.096
And so do you think that this disinterest now, you know, it's not a continue? It was for that moment.

00:25:10.396 --> 00:25:16.436
Do you think that the decrease in the interest is going to have a negative impact

00:25:16.436 --> 00:25:22.896
on black businesses or? or is not going to have any impact at all based on how

00:25:22.896 --> 00:25:24.876
the business is run and all that kind of stuff.

00:25:25.816 --> 00:25:30.376
I think I think that last part you said is the key indicator.

00:25:30.416 --> 00:25:38.136
If you have been able to take the additional boost that was given to black businesses

00:25:38.136 --> 00:25:40.696
during this time and really cultivate

00:25:40.696 --> 00:25:45.596
that energy into building something sustainable, then you'll be fine.

00:25:45.596 --> 00:25:50.456
I always tell people if you build support is anywhere in your in your business

00:25:50.456 --> 00:25:54.576
plan, you're going to fail because support only lasts for so long.

00:25:54.736 --> 00:25:58.996
It's up to you to get on your feet and create a viable product and support your customers.

00:25:59.576 --> 00:26:05.056
And that's something that we focused on from the beginning was to not really

00:26:05.056 --> 00:26:08.696
be business that is dependent upon support.

00:26:08.796 --> 00:26:12.636
It comes, obviously, because, you know, we've put a lot of work in the community

00:26:12.636 --> 00:26:16.716
supporting them and they support us in return. So that's greatly appreciated.

00:26:17.016 --> 00:26:21.656
But, you know, the business that we get online and all the places that we ship

00:26:21.656 --> 00:26:23.496
to that they don't know is from Adam.

00:26:23.676 --> 00:26:29.336
So we just try to make sure that we're a viable product. We we give a good service

00:26:29.336 --> 00:26:34.316
and we stay consistent with with quality service and products.

00:26:34.496 --> 00:26:39.896
And at that point, I don't really see whether somebody wants to pay us attention or not.

00:26:41.376 --> 00:26:48.016
We're trying to be like Levi we're going to be here 100 200 years from now and not based on.

00:26:48.933 --> 00:26:53.213
You know, any, any, any outside factors other than good quality product or service.

00:26:53.573 --> 00:26:58.093
Yeah. I just said it would, it, it depends on the outlook of the,

00:26:58.253 --> 00:27:00.253
of the individual, right?

00:27:00.313 --> 00:27:04.753
If, if that's something that, that you're dependent upon, then yeah,

00:27:04.753 --> 00:27:06.233
it's going to hurt you, right?

00:27:06.253 --> 00:27:11.773
We, we saw organizations who would, were, who were getting rained on with checks

00:27:11.773 --> 00:27:15.533
and opportunities, you know, during that period, right?

00:27:15.693 --> 00:27:19.993
And then when the money dried up, you know, either their work dried up or,

00:27:19.993 --> 00:27:22.753
you know, something had to, something had to end.

00:27:22.953 --> 00:27:26.293
Right. But we, we can't be dependent on that.

00:27:26.473 --> 00:27:31.033
As he said, if the opportunity comes, if they have a mindset to do something

00:27:31.033 --> 00:27:35.193
to help black folks and help repair all of the harm that's been,

00:27:35.193 --> 00:27:39.293
you know, inflicted over the past several hundred years, fantastic.

00:27:39.633 --> 00:27:42.733
Right. But we, we can't depend on it. We're not going to expect it.

00:27:42.853 --> 00:27:46.413
We got, we have to do what we have to do regardless. right

00:27:46.413 --> 00:27:49.053
and so again if it's if something's gonna

00:27:49.053 --> 00:27:52.253
come hey great fantastic we weren't expecting the espn thing

00:27:52.253 --> 00:27:55.373
they emailed us we thought it was spam right and so

00:27:55.373 --> 00:27:58.833
finally you know we backed out to them it's like okay you know this is a real

00:27:58.833 --> 00:28:03.133
thing cool right they created for for the blessing right but we're gonna we're

00:28:03.133 --> 00:28:05.833
gonna put it to work and we're gonna keep doing what we're doing and i think

00:28:05.833 --> 00:28:10.733
that's the mindset that all of us have to have of not expecting the dominant

00:28:10.733 --> 00:28:12.453
culture to do something for us.

00:28:12.793 --> 00:28:15.993
Especially not something that's going to truly empower us.

00:28:16.153 --> 00:28:20.853
Right. It might be something, you know, something a little boost, a little a little token.

00:28:21.153 --> 00:28:24.413
Right. But not something that's going to truly empower us and truly help us

00:28:24.413 --> 00:28:27.813
liberate our people. Right. That's that job is on us.

00:28:28.213 --> 00:28:33.893
So that leads into this question. Now, according to the state of black Arizona

00:28:33.893 --> 00:28:36.233
and the greater Phoenix Economic Council.

00:28:36.813 --> 00:28:39.713
Black businesses account for just one percent of

00:28:39.713 --> 00:28:42.673
all businesses in phoenix so i

00:28:42.673 --> 00:28:45.933
said i was going to ask y'all a political question here's the political question

00:28:45.933 --> 00:28:51.873
what do you think government can do to help change that or do you think government

00:28:51.873 --> 00:28:57.253
can't do anything what's your thoughts i mean there's a lot that government

00:28:57.253 --> 00:29:00.993
can do to to to change that,

00:29:01.773 --> 00:29:07.053
and and a lot of other things right a lot of other challenges and issues that

00:29:07.053 --> 00:29:11.773
we face right but does government have the will to do.

00:29:12.618 --> 00:29:16.658
You know, I think the biggest thing that that we know that everybody knows that

00:29:16.658 --> 00:29:20.058
we need is capital. We need we need access to capital.

00:29:20.458 --> 00:29:25.138
Our community has been divested and exploited for hundreds of years.

00:29:25.318 --> 00:29:28.638
Right. There's no there's no mystery as to how we got into this position.

00:29:28.878 --> 00:29:31.578
It's a wealth canyon that exists in this country.

00:29:32.018 --> 00:29:38.378
All right. I study a lot of entrepreneurs, listen to a lot of podcasts and all

00:29:38.378 --> 00:29:42.638
these multimillion and billion dollar corporations. A lot of times it's just

00:29:42.638 --> 00:29:45.018
the seed money that they get in the beginning.

00:29:45.198 --> 00:29:50.038
If you can go to your family and raise $200,000, $300,000 for your granola bar

00:29:50.038 --> 00:29:54.358
business idea or for some, you know, some cockamamie idea that you have and

00:29:54.358 --> 00:29:58.058
your uncle is, you know, a professor at Harvard and all these things.

00:29:58.358 --> 00:30:03.698
Right. It takes the guesswork out. It makes it makes there's a system in place

00:30:03.698 --> 00:30:07.058
that makes it a lot easier for these businesses to succeed.

00:30:07.418 --> 00:30:10.998
And so we just we don't have those things in our community. So if government

00:30:10.998 --> 00:30:14.258
was truly interested in seeing a change and this type of change.

00:30:14.898 --> 00:30:16.298
Right, they would institute things.

00:30:16.418 --> 00:30:20.718
They would hold banks and financial institutions accountable that discriminate,

00:30:20.918 --> 00:30:23.178
you know, but that takes courage.

00:30:23.318 --> 00:30:28.358
That takes will and it takes, you know, some serious intention to see change.

00:30:28.578 --> 00:30:33.498
And, you know, the government has never, never shown to have the appetite to do that. Yeah.

00:30:33.638 --> 00:30:40.238
And I'm willing to bet that on that report that other quote unquote minorities,

00:30:40.438 --> 00:30:46.038
racial demographics or whatever are higher than us, whether you're speaking about Asians,

00:30:46.238 --> 00:30:48.778
whether you're speaking about Hispanics or whatever,

00:30:49.058 --> 00:30:51.538
you know, maybe the native Americans are below us, but who knows,

00:30:51.538 --> 00:30:55.738
but I'm willing to bet of all those were probably the lowest on that,

00:30:55.978 --> 00:30:59.018
on that list. So when we look at that.

00:30:59.754 --> 00:31:04.214
We've got to stop having BIPOC programs, BIPOC funding.

00:31:04.834 --> 00:31:10.034
If we are actually going to gain ground, we can't be grouped up with people

00:31:10.034 --> 00:31:17.194
who already have an advantage on us just from either a, a homeland or B, a plan when you got here,

00:31:17.414 --> 00:31:21.134
you know, we're in a unique, unique situation that we're still trying to climb

00:31:21.134 --> 00:31:22.434
out of the hole from that.

00:31:23.434 --> 00:31:25.754
You know, there's somebody at the top of that hole still kicking dirt,

00:31:25.774 --> 00:31:30.394
you know, So stop grouping us in when you when you release these programs and

00:31:30.394 --> 00:31:32.174
these fundings and these opportunities.

00:31:32.754 --> 00:31:39.154
We don't we're just the B that the B has a unique story than those other letters,

00:31:39.354 --> 00:31:42.034
then the minorities, then the people of colors.

00:31:42.514 --> 00:31:48.034
So in order for us to gain ground, we need very intentional and very direct.

00:31:49.414 --> 00:31:54.754
Initiatives that support just us is this is like Ali said, it's not hard.

00:31:54.754 --> 00:31:58.434
You know, nobody else has that story, but yet we're grouped in with everybody else.

00:31:58.934 --> 00:32:02.314
So, Henry, let me let me let me hit that real quick.

00:32:02.534 --> 00:32:08.014
So having been in a position, elected position before, if somebody comes to

00:32:08.014 --> 00:32:11.994
you and says, well, Brother Henry, I hear what you're saying.

00:32:13.594 --> 00:32:19.274
However, we can't really navigate the law like that. If we pass something or

00:32:19.274 --> 00:32:24.814
we create a government program, it can't be just for one group of people.

00:32:26.248 --> 00:32:30.388
So what would you what would your response be to an elected official like me

00:32:30.388 --> 00:32:32.088
that would say that to you?

00:32:32.568 --> 00:32:36.028
I would I would ask you to explain the Asian hate crime.

00:32:36.428 --> 00:32:40.768
I would ask you to explain Native American benefits.

00:32:41.008 --> 00:32:45.228
I would ask you to explain the money that we paid to other countries for damage

00:32:45.228 --> 00:32:47.068
that was done to them, not by us.

00:32:47.068 --> 00:32:53.308
I would probably want an understanding of why other groups.

00:32:53.808 --> 00:32:59.368
Racial or not, have received benefits based on their very specific demographics

00:32:59.368 --> 00:33:05.928
and repairing them from things that had nothing to do with America to understand

00:33:05.928 --> 00:33:08.648
and just try to understand your statement.

00:33:08.648 --> 00:33:12.568
But I'm not even going to push it back. If you can explain it to me in a way that makes sense.

00:33:12.868 --> 00:33:17.668
But we seem to be the only people that that narrative applies to.

00:33:18.088 --> 00:33:21.668
And I think it's getting old at this point. It's getting it's past time.

00:33:21.808 --> 00:33:26.148
And I would have to flip the question to the politician to say, how do we fix this?

00:33:26.548 --> 00:33:30.908
Right. In the confines of this system that we're in, how do we fix it?

00:33:31.128 --> 00:33:33.848
Right. Because the problem is not going away.

00:33:34.168 --> 00:33:37.368
We know the solution. We know what's needed. Right.

00:33:37.488 --> 00:33:40.828
But we can't keep kicking the can down the road saying, oh, you know,

00:33:40.908 --> 00:33:44.048
this is how my hands are tied. Well, then what do we need to do to fix?

00:33:44.508 --> 00:33:49.448
Right. Do we need to do designation? I've been studying the speaking of the natives.

00:33:49.588 --> 00:33:56.228
I've been studying the casino industry when when they when these investors want

00:33:56.228 --> 00:33:58.108
to invent, want to build a casino.

00:33:58.408 --> 00:34:01.628
They lobby the government to they can create a tribe.

00:34:01.968 --> 00:34:05.268
They can lobby the government to get land. Right.

00:34:05.688 --> 00:34:10.688
To get to start a new reservation and they can, and then they invest in the casino and.

00:34:11.637 --> 00:34:14.997
Right. Build a casino, invest hundreds of millions of dollars and then reap

00:34:14.997 --> 00:34:16.897
massive amounts of profits.

00:34:17.237 --> 00:34:22.537
Right. So they're they're operating within the system, but going around certain

00:34:22.537 --> 00:34:27.357
things, there's loopholes that they're exploiting in order to to to get what they need.

00:34:27.557 --> 00:34:31.177
Right. So why are we the only ones that are being told, oh, this is the way

00:34:31.177 --> 00:34:33.217
the system works? I know it's whatever.

00:34:33.657 --> 00:34:38.797
Right. We know that that that the laws in this country have never been lawful. Right.

00:34:38.897 --> 00:34:43.637
They just they just been put in a in a institute in a way to benefit certain people.

00:34:43.877 --> 00:34:47.017
Right. So that would be my question to elected officials was knowing what you

00:34:47.017 --> 00:34:50.657
know about the system and knowing what you know about our condition.

00:34:51.157 --> 00:34:55.377
How do we fix this? And on the same note to to that statement,

00:34:55.397 --> 00:34:57.997
we're not asking for something that's based on race.

00:34:58.157 --> 00:35:01.837
We're not asking for something for black people. We're asking for something

00:35:01.837 --> 00:35:06.477
for people that have a lineage of people that built this country that have a

00:35:06.477 --> 00:35:08.537
very specific designation.

00:35:08.897 --> 00:35:12.757
So it's not race based. Same way these tribes are lineage based.

00:35:12.937 --> 00:35:17.017
The same way the the every other group is lineage basis.

00:35:17.197 --> 00:35:20.317
It's not a discussion of race. It's a discussion of lineage and history.

00:35:21.097 --> 00:35:27.057
OK, and that's that's a good way to put it, Because I think when we get into

00:35:27.057 --> 00:35:31.717
the discussion of race and we won't dive into it too deep, but we understand

00:35:31.717 --> 00:35:36.057
that race was a construct to divide and conquer.

00:35:37.137 --> 00:35:41.937
And but when you make the argument based on lineage, as far as ancestry,

00:35:42.137 --> 00:35:47.397
as far as generational contributions, because as I referred to him earlier,

00:35:47.577 --> 00:35:50.797
my light skin cousins, they brag about the fact that.

00:35:51.455 --> 00:35:54.155
Here in Georgia, they're like an eighth generation. And I said,

00:35:54.255 --> 00:35:56.915
you do understand that Georgia was set up as a debtor's prison.

00:35:56.995 --> 00:35:59.895
So you're bragging on the fact that your great, great, great,

00:36:00.015 --> 00:36:02.475
great, great granddaddy was was a was a criminal.

00:36:02.815 --> 00:36:07.875
Right. In the eyes of the king of England. But they use that to justify why

00:36:07.875 --> 00:36:10.935
they should get benefits and privilege.

00:36:11.615 --> 00:36:15.655
And it seems to be a problem when African-Americans or black folks,

00:36:15.755 --> 00:36:18.015
however you want to describe yourselves.

00:36:18.815 --> 00:36:23.715
When you make that same argument, it's like, well, I don't know, and all that stuff.

00:36:24.695 --> 00:36:29.675
It's really interesting. I think that's a challenge that we're going to have

00:36:29.675 --> 00:36:36.495
to seriously address moving forward as Generation X and Generation Z become,

00:36:36.675 --> 00:36:41.055
and the millennials become more of the power base in this country.

00:36:41.395 --> 00:36:47.115
All right, so let's get into, and this may be a segue, let's get into the foundation

00:36:47.115 --> 00:36:48.235
work that y'all are doing.

00:36:48.455 --> 00:36:52.395
Talk about the foundation, why you felt you needed to start that up,

00:36:52.555 --> 00:36:54.595
and what is the objective?

00:36:55.555 --> 00:37:02.595
Yeah, so the foundation work was really born out of a need that we observed

00:37:02.595 --> 00:37:09.475
over and over again to provide resources and support and education to businesses in the community.

00:37:09.775 --> 00:37:15.255
Again, we've been operating our marketplace for now for eight years,

00:37:15.435 --> 00:37:18.215
but at about the four or five year mark, right?

00:37:18.335 --> 00:37:21.315
We noticed that our businesses weren't growing.

00:37:22.035 --> 00:37:26.595
Right. Our businesses would people would come in, they would get inspired and

00:37:26.595 --> 00:37:30.075
would bring their idea to the marketplace. We consider it one of the best places

00:37:30.075 --> 00:37:33.875
to start because you can come, you can you can set your your business up,

00:37:34.015 --> 00:37:35.575
whether it's a product, service, whatever.

00:37:35.955 --> 00:37:40.315
Right. And but we noticed that there were gaps, you know, whether it was knowledge,

00:37:40.735 --> 00:37:43.555
whether it was capital, whether it was exposure.

00:37:44.035 --> 00:37:47.855
Right. Whatever those gaps were. But we know that we had a certain level of

00:37:47.855 --> 00:37:49.935
experience, you know, being business owners.

00:37:49.935 --> 00:37:54.655
And but we also knew that there was a lot of experience that was out there,

00:37:54.975 --> 00:37:58.615
a lot of knowledge that was out there that, you know, people just weren't accessing,

00:37:58.935 --> 00:38:01.635
whether it was from people in the community or outside of the community.

00:38:01.895 --> 00:38:07.255
And so we know that business is is a vital tool to build wealth,

00:38:07.435 --> 00:38:12.675
to create jobs, to create opportunity, you know, to to help elevate us and help

00:38:12.675 --> 00:38:14.715
move us forward as a community, as a people.

00:38:15.315 --> 00:38:20.195
And so, you know, we saw the need to create something that could bridge that

00:38:20.195 --> 00:38:21.755
divide, that could bridge that gap.

00:38:22.015 --> 00:38:24.555
Right. And so that's the whole idea behind the nonprofit.

00:38:24.935 --> 00:38:29.595
And so we continue to do our marketplace. But now we have the retail store.

00:38:29.775 --> 00:38:32.415
So now instead of somebody coming out once or twice a month,

00:38:32.575 --> 00:38:36.395
you could be generating passive income every single day of the week to the retail store.

00:38:36.615 --> 00:38:41.715
Right. We do classes now. We do workshops now. We do networking events now to

00:38:41.715 --> 00:38:44.755
bring community together so that we can do business with one another.

00:38:44.895 --> 00:38:48.195
We can rebuild that trust, rebuild that true sense of community.

00:38:48.435 --> 00:38:51.515
Right. Because we say community. Right. But we're still very segmented.

00:38:51.595 --> 00:38:52.535
We're still very divided.

00:38:52.715 --> 00:38:56.715
And so the more we're in communication with each other, the stronger our relationships

00:38:56.715 --> 00:39:01.815
are, the better we can support each other in every aspect, but definitely in business.

00:39:01.955 --> 00:39:06.115
And so and we have a whole bunch of things planned. We just we just secured

00:39:06.115 --> 00:39:11.755
a 13,000 square foot facility, which is is right in East Lake Park,

00:39:11.855 --> 00:39:13.975
which is a historically black neighborhood in Phoenix.

00:39:14.155 --> 00:39:17.875
And so it's going to be our headquarters for our nonprofit. It's going to be

00:39:17.875 --> 00:39:21.895
office space for other nonprofits that serve businesses. It's going to be a

00:39:21.895 --> 00:39:24.915
co-working space, going to be incubators, going to be event space,

00:39:25.095 --> 00:39:26.295
going to be a whole bunch of things.

00:39:26.906 --> 00:39:32.446
And so so we're just we're just charging hard, trying to trying to show what's possible.

00:39:32.626 --> 00:39:36.346
Once again, trying to lay the groundwork for the people who are coming behind

00:39:36.346 --> 00:39:42.166
us, who have brilliant business ideas and need that support,

00:39:42.326 --> 00:39:46.126
need that foundation, you know, and need those need the resources that,

00:39:46.226 --> 00:39:48.566
like we said, a lot of other communities have.

00:39:48.566 --> 00:39:52.886
And so we view it as our responsibility to help gather those resources and bring

00:39:52.886 --> 00:39:57.166
them to our community so that we can continue to grow and do what we need to

00:39:57.166 --> 00:40:01.726
do. Yeah, because we can speak firsthand about the opportunities and the money that's in the city.

00:40:02.246 --> 00:40:06.026
And unfortunately, you know, on the flip side of it, after, you know,

00:40:06.286 --> 00:40:12.566
after doing the work for what was it, like five, six years as just out of love, funded it out of pocket.

00:40:12.806 --> 00:40:17.006
And then like, OK, we need to become a nonprofit in order to get access to more

00:40:17.006 --> 00:40:20.986
resources to serve as a better resource to these businesses.

00:40:20.986 --> 00:40:25.726
And once we became a nonprofit and we realized how much money really was out

00:40:25.726 --> 00:40:28.746
there, that's getting bottlenecked by gatekeepers.

00:40:29.746 --> 00:40:33.066
You know, it kind of changed the mission a little bit, because at that point

00:40:33.066 --> 00:40:36.066
we realized that we weren't fighting a battle.

00:40:36.286 --> 00:40:43.046
We need to support them, but we're fighting a legacy actions within our own.

00:40:43.186 --> 00:40:46.586
I hate to call them community or even our own people, but people that represent

00:40:46.586 --> 00:40:51.426
us, you know, to the dominant society. So they get the checks cut and those

00:40:51.426 --> 00:40:53.386
resources don't make it to the community.

00:40:53.706 --> 00:40:57.326
And after seeing that, you know, it kind of put a different fire up under us

00:40:57.326 --> 00:40:59.286
because now we're fighting two battles.

00:40:59.446 --> 00:41:02.226
We're fighting the battles to make sure that these businesses have what they

00:41:02.226 --> 00:41:04.886
need and we're there for them to build this foundation.

00:41:04.886 --> 00:41:10.206
And over here, we're fighting to be seen by the same people that are cutting

00:41:10.206 --> 00:41:14.366
the checks to the to the people that have been there when the checks have been

00:41:14.366 --> 00:41:19.446
cut, but have not done the right thing with those resources to benefit the community.

00:41:19.866 --> 00:41:24.626
So, you know, we're kind of trying to dismantle the system and build a new one at the same time. Yeah.

00:41:25.166 --> 00:41:28.146
So let me, this is my last question.

00:41:29.246 --> 00:41:33.686
And it's very personal with me and I don't, we don't have time to get into the

00:41:33.686 --> 00:41:39.506
story of why it's personal with me, but it's a word called pace, right?

00:41:39.866 --> 00:41:44.046
So it's like, y'all got this successful business going.

00:41:44.306 --> 00:41:48.586
You've got a couple of other ventures going. Now you got the nonprofit going.

00:41:49.226 --> 00:41:54.426
How do y'all pace yourselves? Because I I think that's very important for black

00:41:54.426 --> 00:42:03.246
businesses, business people to understand about extending yourselves or overextending or whatever.

00:42:04.373 --> 00:42:10.513
How do y'all deal with the issue of pace and, you know, when is the right time

00:42:10.513 --> 00:42:12.133
to move in this direction? When

00:42:12.133 --> 00:42:16.733
is the right time to kind of stand pat or even pull back a little bit?

00:42:16.853 --> 00:42:19.993
How do y'all address that? Cause I think that's very important for us.

00:42:20.773 --> 00:42:22.013
You're not the examples.

00:42:25.993 --> 00:42:26.793
I don't know.

00:42:30.253 --> 00:42:34.013
I'd be interested if I wish we had time to understand why it's personal for

00:42:34.013 --> 00:42:37.493
you. but it's different for us, right?

00:42:37.673 --> 00:42:41.533
For, I think for a lot of us, because it's not just business, right?

00:42:41.713 --> 00:42:45.813
It's not, we're not just doing this just to get money or something like that.

00:42:45.913 --> 00:42:47.673
Like it's a, it's a, it's a mission.

00:42:47.973 --> 00:42:52.033
It's an assignment that we, we, it's placed on a lot of us to,

00:42:52.333 --> 00:42:55.273
to, to, to do this work, right.

00:42:55.413 --> 00:43:00.193
And, and to, and to serve our people and to build something that our people can be proud of.

00:43:00.653 --> 00:43:03.913
Right. And so how do you pace yourself?

00:43:04.373 --> 00:43:08.633
When you when you're when you have that calling on you, when you feel that calling

00:43:08.633 --> 00:43:11.053
on you, how can you possibly pace yourself?

00:43:11.573 --> 00:43:14.553
Right. So because because you're always going to feel like there's more than

00:43:14.553 --> 00:43:19.013
we can do. Right. We have a limited a limited window to do this. Right.

00:43:19.373 --> 00:43:23.013
And look at look at and we're and we study the history.

00:43:23.293 --> 00:43:27.893
Right. We study our ancestors. Right. And so how did they pace their self?

00:43:28.253 --> 00:43:32.313
Right. The sacrifices that they made in the times that they were in.

00:43:32.313 --> 00:43:37.173
Right i don't know that's that's an impossible question to answer right but

00:43:37.173 --> 00:43:42.333
i but i think you know that for me personally balance doesn't look i always

00:43:42.333 --> 00:43:43.893
tell people balance doesn't look like this.

00:43:44.533 --> 00:43:48.593
Right balance look like this that's balance

00:43:48.593 --> 00:43:52.373
right when i realize okay i'm way overextended i

00:43:52.373 --> 00:43:55.053
haven't spent any time with my children i haven't spent any time with my wife

00:43:55.053 --> 00:43:57.773
i haven't been sleeping my health is suffering okay all

00:43:57.773 --> 00:44:00.753
right now i gotta try to pull back a little bit right and

00:44:00.753 --> 00:44:03.633
regain some of that balance but as soon as I'm here

00:44:03.633 --> 00:44:09.393
I feel like I have I can't stay here right I have to go back to this because

00:44:09.393 --> 00:44:15.233
that's the time that we're in so I mean I'll yeah like I said we're not the

00:44:15.233 --> 00:44:21.113
best examples for that because it's hard it's hard to face yourself in a time like this yeah it's.

00:44:21.757 --> 00:44:26.097
This is one of those things I meditate on every morning, and I'm looking for

00:44:26.097 --> 00:44:29.837
the answers because if you were

00:44:29.837 --> 00:44:34.257
to look at our plate, it would look like a to-go plate from a barbecue.

00:44:34.517 --> 00:44:39.097
You put everything as much as you can on that plate, and you're trying to walk out with it.

00:44:39.237 --> 00:44:42.137
That's like literally what our plate looks like. And actually,

00:44:42.297 --> 00:44:44.117
we're probably just going to take the 10 pan.

00:44:44.597 --> 00:44:51.717
That's what our plate looks like. But like Ali said, it's like what we do is is is not business.

00:44:52.257 --> 00:44:57.677
Money is the the the last priority because we know it's going to come if we

00:44:57.677 --> 00:44:58.937
just continue to do a job.

00:44:59.097 --> 00:45:05.137
But the impact that we know we can have and we have had that that is the most

00:45:05.137 --> 00:45:08.097
important thing that that we work for.

00:45:08.517 --> 00:45:11.657
And I mentioned that we're fighting two battles and actually we're fighting

00:45:11.657 --> 00:45:14.257
the third battle, which is the most important, which is time.

00:45:14.917 --> 00:45:18.377
Phoenix is growing at such a rapid rate, the cost of living,

00:45:18.537 --> 00:45:23.337
the opportunities to to establish a business, to establish yourself, period.

00:45:23.657 --> 00:45:26.717
I grew up a good part of my time in San Diego.

00:45:27.157 --> 00:45:32.837
Growing up, San Diego was nice, slow town. And then I watched it grow.

00:45:33.237 --> 00:45:38.157
And then by the time it got to where it was, there was nowhere for anybody black

00:45:38.157 --> 00:45:43.537
to participate in the greater economy. And I saw that and I did not have the

00:45:43.537 --> 00:45:47.577
examples outside of the hood of black businesses doing what they do.

00:45:47.737 --> 00:45:51.997
But once we landed where we landed now and we see what's there,

00:45:52.377 --> 00:45:58.717
we have we're trying our best to not just hold the line, but gain more ground.

00:45:58.937 --> 00:46:04.157
And every piece of ground that we gain, we're bringing other people in to be

00:46:04.157 --> 00:46:06.937
able to capitalize on this opportunity that we've brought people.

00:46:07.457 --> 00:46:12.757
So the imbalance is, I don't know, imbalance feels like balance to me because

00:46:12.757 --> 00:46:14.917
if I have a free moment, I feel like something is wrong.

00:46:15.177 --> 00:46:18.877
I'm not saying that that's healthy. It's probably very unhealthy. Yeah.

00:46:19.290 --> 00:46:23.550
And I'm, but it is very unhealthy. I know you can tell by these bags,

00:46:23.590 --> 00:46:26.570
but, but we just, I don't know.

00:46:26.930 --> 00:46:30.410
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of work. My grandfather was a coal miner

00:46:30.410 --> 00:46:35.530
in West Virginia and I know he worked hard and I know his, his,

00:46:35.590 --> 00:46:37.910
his father, his grandfather was, were enslaved.

00:46:38.930 --> 00:46:43.270
And I don't know what their balance was. So when I look at what I do compared

00:46:43.270 --> 00:46:45.210
to the people that paved the way for me,

00:46:45.450 --> 00:46:49.950
it's hard for me to really complain if I'm dead tired on my back from working,

00:46:50.130 --> 00:46:53.990
talking to people all day, because that's what they cleared this path for.

00:46:53.990 --> 00:46:56.770
Yeah you you sound you sound like

00:46:56.770 --> 00:46:59.590
my my grandfather you say you can sleep when you're dead

00:46:59.590 --> 00:47:02.630
you know i'm saying right now you gotta go to work but i

00:47:02.630 --> 00:47:05.910
appreciate that honesty i i really do and maybe

00:47:05.910 --> 00:47:11.530
we'll get some time to to talk about why what was my motivation motivation for

00:47:11.530 --> 00:47:18.430
asking that but look we gotta go and so tell people the name of the non-profit

00:47:18.430 --> 00:47:25.010
how people can contribute to it how people can do business with strong wool. Give me the full pitch.

00:47:26.204 --> 00:47:32.884
All right. So our nonprofit is ACRES, which is an acronym for Archwood Community

00:47:32.884 --> 00:47:34.544
Resource Empowerment Strategy.

00:47:34.784 --> 00:47:39.264
We're commonly known as Archwood or Archwood Exchange, named after the intersection

00:47:39.264 --> 00:47:41.844
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Archer and Greenwood.

00:47:42.324 --> 00:47:47.244
So Archwood Exchange, our ACRES, archwoodexchange.com is our website.

00:47:47.404 --> 00:47:50.364
And there you can find about find out about everything that we do.

00:47:50.544 --> 00:47:54.804
We're starting a big fundraising campaign to complete this project that we're

00:47:54.804 --> 00:47:55.864
working on for the community.

00:47:56.204 --> 00:48:00.904
And our business, this business is strawandwool.com.

00:48:01.024 --> 00:48:06.724
We are located in downtown Phoenix and in Los Angeles on Pico in Mid-City.

00:48:07.184 --> 00:48:11.184
Got the largest selection of hats that you can find in store and online.

00:48:11.444 --> 00:48:16.544
And the majority of them we design and manufacture ourselves because my favorite

00:48:16.544 --> 00:48:20.804
quote, I put it in everything I do, is Marcus Garvey said, what man has done,

00:48:20.944 --> 00:48:23.704
man can do. So we trying to do it all.

00:48:24.604 --> 00:48:28.904
Ali, you want to add anything to that or we good? No, we good. That's everything.

00:48:29.624 --> 00:48:34.704
All right, guys. Well, look, Henry Dickerson, Ali Nervous, I appreciate y'all, man.

00:48:34.904 --> 00:48:39.124
I appreciate y'all's honesty. I appreciate y'all's candor. I appreciate your energy.

00:48:39.284 --> 00:48:43.564
And most importantly, I appreciate you setting aside some time to come on the

00:48:43.564 --> 00:48:45.304
podcast. Much success to you.

00:48:45.604 --> 00:48:50.564
If you can cater to big head folks like me, you know, you'll probably see me

00:48:50.564 --> 00:48:54.504
dropping in the order pretty soon because that's always been my big challenge

00:48:54.504 --> 00:48:56.964
is getting something to fit this big old head I got.

00:48:57.204 --> 00:49:01.304
So if y'all can work with me, I can work with y'all. Say that again, Henry?

00:49:02.504 --> 00:49:06.344
That's why we started our own brand because the other brands didn't do it.

00:49:06.744 --> 00:49:10.024
So yeah, we got you in the big head. You got a lot on your mind. We got you.

00:49:11.324 --> 00:49:15.424
All right. All right, guys. We got you.

00:49:16.764 --> 00:49:19.364
All right, guys. We'll catch y'all on the other side.

00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:39.280
Music.

00:49:39.123 --> 00:49:48.223
All right. And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, David Tereshchuk.

00:49:48.783 --> 00:49:50.983
David Tereshchuk.

00:49:51.563 --> 00:49:56.763
He is a journalist working mainly in broadcast media, but also for magazines

00:49:56.763 --> 00:50:01.123
and newspapers. New York Times, The Guardian, New Statesman, for example.

00:50:02.023 --> 00:50:05.223
He spent two decades with British commercial television reporting,

00:50:05.483 --> 00:50:08.763
producing and making documentaries before moving to the United States,

00:50:08.823 --> 00:50:14.423
where he worked for ABC, CBS, CNN, Discovery, A&E and the History Channel.

00:50:15.023 --> 00:50:18.763
His earliest work included coverage of the guerrilla war in Northern Ireland

00:50:18.763 --> 00:50:22.943
and then extended into international issues, especially in the third world.

00:50:23.643 --> 00:50:29.723
Since 2012, he has been a producer and correspondent for PBS concentrating on ethical issues.

00:50:30.023 --> 00:50:34.543
He broadcasts a weekly public radio dispatch of media criticism,

00:50:35.163 --> 00:50:38.823
the media beat and writes an online column by the same name.

00:50:39.063 --> 00:50:42.463
A graduate of Oxford University. He has been a U.S.

00:50:42.543 --> 00:50:48.123
Citizen since 2002 and lives in New York City and Ireland. He is the author

00:50:48.123 --> 00:50:53.603
of the memoir, A Question of Paternity, My Life as an Unaffiliated Reporter.

00:50:54.303 --> 00:50:58.743
And our discussion today will be based off of that book.

00:50:59.043 --> 00:51:03.543
So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

00:51:03.543 --> 00:51:07.063
guest on this podcast, David Tereshchuk.

00:51:08.560 --> 00:51:18.160
Music.

00:51:18.023 --> 00:51:22.723
All right. David Terrestrup, how you doing? So you're doing good?

00:51:23.503 --> 00:51:25.443
I am well today. I hope you are too.

00:51:26.583 --> 00:51:27.723
I'm doing good.

00:51:28.983 --> 00:51:35.663
I'm doing good. I'm still in recovery mode, but we're not really here to talk

00:51:35.663 --> 00:51:37.963
about that. We're here to talk about your book.

00:51:39.023 --> 00:51:48.363
And let me see. The name of this book is a question of paternity my life as

00:51:48.363 --> 00:51:54.803
an unaffiliated reporter and this is this is basically your your life story,

00:51:56.210 --> 00:52:01.530
So I want to do it justice in asking the questions and all that,

00:52:01.670 --> 00:52:05.250
because you've had a pretty, pretty interesting life.

00:52:06.150 --> 00:52:13.530
When I read it, it was just kind of like, even though you were not in the United

00:52:13.530 --> 00:52:20.550
States, it seemed like a typical life for your generation.

00:52:22.150 --> 00:52:25.770
And i don't know if that's a fair assessment but

00:52:25.770 --> 00:52:33.290
just you know the the coming of age stuff was pretty interesting and i said

00:52:33.290 --> 00:52:38.870
i could read you know with my mom and my dad i kind of thought yeah they probably

00:52:38.870 --> 00:52:42.550
they were doing some of the same stuff not as colorful as you,

00:52:43.330 --> 00:52:49.190
but they were doing kind of the same stuff so and i found that fascinating so

00:52:49.190 --> 00:52:51.370
let's start like i normally do with a quote,

00:52:51.810 --> 00:52:59.210
I cannot say what portion is in truth, the naked recollection of that time,

00:52:59.390 --> 00:53:06.510
and what may rather have been called to life by after meditation.

00:53:06.970 --> 00:53:08.550
What does that quote mean to you?

00:53:09.330 --> 00:53:13.570
Well, that's a quote from Wordsworth, Eric, my favorite English poet,

00:53:13.790 --> 00:53:18.750
I think, greatly influential on me in my teen years and thereafter.

00:53:19.430 --> 00:53:24.950
And what he's pointing at, I suppose, is that difficulty we probably all have

00:53:24.950 --> 00:53:30.150
in figuring out what's true about our memories and whether or not.

00:53:30.859 --> 00:53:36.599
What we remember is the truth, and how much of it is an actual memory embedded

00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:42.979
in us at the time, and how much of it is something that what he calls after meditation,

00:53:43.459 --> 00:53:45.979
you know, thinking about it in retrospect.

00:53:46.479 --> 00:53:51.479
And I can't really tell. I just, you know, I'm the last person to be able to

00:53:51.479 --> 00:53:57.799
judge what I'm remembering and what I might have rationalized somewhat in retrospect,

00:53:58.479 --> 00:54:00.539
long after the event, looking back.

00:54:00.759 --> 00:54:08.199
I mean, I'm 76 now, and I'm talking about events that essentially start in my infancy.

00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:10.999
And, you know, that's a long time.

00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:16.699
And an awful lot of fading can have happened, and an awful lot of embellishing might have happened.

00:54:16.859 --> 00:54:21.959
But I'm trying to be as honest as I can to my recollections.

00:54:22.319 --> 00:54:29.159
And as you say, right at the beginning, I'm quoting Wordsworth and saying, But beware that,

00:54:29.299 --> 00:54:34.299
you know, a lot of this might be the result of me mulling it over all these

00:54:34.299 --> 00:54:38.719
many years and perhaps shifting my attitude over time.

00:54:39.779 --> 00:54:45.539
Yeah. So, you know, people ask me, Eric, why don't you ever write a book?

00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:53.159
And I tell people, I don't think my life is worth somebody paying 30, 40, 50 dollars to read.

00:54:53.159 --> 00:55:01.419
I think that I've been very blessed to have lived a life, and I like the memories

00:55:01.419 --> 00:55:05.559
and the encounters I've had, but I've been always kind of reluctant to share them.

00:55:06.099 --> 00:55:09.799
I don't know if it was because of your journalistic background or whatever,

00:55:09.899 --> 00:55:14.819
but what made you feel compelled to say, yeah, I'm going to tell my story.

00:55:14.819 --> 00:55:17.199
I want to put it out there for people to read.

00:55:17.819 --> 00:55:23.499
Well, I share the same kind of reluctance as you do. I've been a writer all

00:55:23.499 --> 00:55:27.819
my life, in a way, in different ways. I've been a journalist all my life,

00:55:27.859 --> 00:55:32.019
and that would mean writing, obviously, about things I discovered.

00:55:32.739 --> 00:55:39.299
And I wrote about just about everything from the local parish sewing circle

00:55:39.299 --> 00:55:43.319
through to grand international conference tables,

00:55:43.319 --> 00:55:51.219
and wars and disasters and great political doings at national level in my own

00:55:51.219 --> 00:55:53.459
country and in foreign countries, but.

00:55:54.580 --> 00:56:01.540
But the one thing I'd never written about was myself, and I took on the task with some trepidation.

00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:06.540
But the reason I did it, even though I was a bit unwilling to begin with,

00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:12.080
was that I think there's a kind of paradox at work in my life,

00:56:12.100 --> 00:56:17.420
which might be of interest and even some use to other people.

00:56:17.720 --> 00:56:23.820
The paradox is this. It's my job as a journalist to go around the world and

00:56:23.820 --> 00:56:27.840
ask people questions and get answers on the public record,

00:56:28.040 --> 00:56:34.060
often from people who don't particularly want to be pinned down and, you know,

00:56:34.300 --> 00:56:39.340
the leaders of countries who are being evasive about the truth very often.

00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:44.040
So there I get my answers in the public realm.

00:56:44.220 --> 00:56:49.340
But in the private realm of my own personal life, there was this big question

00:56:49.340 --> 00:56:52.800
but never had an answer. Who was my father?

00:56:53.560 --> 00:56:56.940
And that made me think, well, two things.

00:56:57.100 --> 00:57:00.800
One, I ought to find out because I'm a journalist and I'm good,

00:57:01.080 --> 00:57:03.040
supposedly good at finding things out.

00:57:03.040 --> 00:57:12.060
And secondly, that whole paradox was in a way a story in itself and a story

00:57:12.060 --> 00:57:18.000
that might be helpful to other people who have paradoxes and secrets in their

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:20.440
life that they might want to resolve.

00:57:23.060 --> 00:57:26.220
So it seems like when you were at Oxford,

00:57:26.680 --> 00:57:35.620
it seemed like that was when you discovered this talent, because you talk about

00:57:35.620 --> 00:57:39.600
that you were more of an introvert, if I can say that.

00:57:39.700 --> 00:57:43.340
I don't know if that's a way you would describe yourself. Oh, absolutely.

00:57:43.900 --> 00:57:48.880
I was frightened, I think. I was very ill at ease with myself,

00:57:49.060 --> 00:57:52.420
all to do with this secret background, not knowing.

00:57:52.700 --> 00:57:56.780
I mean, I think it was to do with, certainly, that was part of the mix,

00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:59.940
that I didn't know who my father was, and it was a big family mystery,

00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:05.700
and I was unsure about whose I was, and therefore, in a way, about who I was.

00:58:05.700 --> 00:58:08.900
And I was shy. That was the word at the time.

00:58:09.060 --> 00:58:13.880
I was reserved. I was inward looking and certainly not very outward going.

00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:22.020
Yeah. And so you found your, you seem to have found your voice when you started

00:58:22.020 --> 00:58:27.960
working, I guess, with the school paper in Oxford, and then you ended up on the TV station.

00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:32.000
Yeah. Well, initially, while I was still at college college,

00:58:32.759 --> 00:58:36.799
It was, in fact, a deliberate prescription for myself.

00:58:38.299 --> 00:58:43.559
I'm not quite sure how I figured it out, but I don't know why it occurred to me that it might work.

00:58:43.699 --> 00:58:47.119
But it was an interesting effort.

00:58:47.399 --> 00:58:49.639
I decided it was a decision.

00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:55.919
I decided that to get over this shyness and awkwardness that I felt,

00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:59.639
I had to make myself go out and talk to people.

00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:05.039
And the route to doing that was to become a reporter on the school newspaper,

00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:06.899
the student body newspaper.

00:59:07.999 --> 00:59:11.999
And, you know, I wouldn't be able to get my stories if I didn't go out and talk

00:59:11.999 --> 00:59:15.059
to people and be outgoing in that sense.

00:59:15.439 --> 00:59:21.459
And it kind of worked. I became pretty adept at getting stories out of people.

00:59:21.459 --> 00:59:28.239
And that went on when I found myself at the ridiculously early age of 19 on

00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:32.759
a regional television station. And they actually put me on screen doing that

00:59:32.759 --> 00:59:35.839
all the time, interviewing people and getting answers.

00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:41.299
So, yeah, you're right. I found a way of dealing with my own problems.

00:59:41.299 --> 00:59:46.319
And I ended up doing a useful job of work in the world at large with the talents

00:59:46.319 --> 00:59:47.979
and skills that I developed.

00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.419
So what was what is this the

00:59:52.419 --> 00:59:55.839
the story the interview

00:59:55.839 --> 01:00:04.239
that really highlights your career is it the first story you did with what am

01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:09.219
I trying to say it was a young lady and she got kidnapped by the KGB I think

01:00:09.219 --> 01:00:14.579
or something like that and then was it that's because I think that That was your first big story,

01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:17.899
or was it something in your career?

01:00:18.259 --> 01:00:24.339
Yeah, no, no. I think my head was definitely turned by this extraordinary story

01:00:24.339 --> 01:00:30.839
I was able to pull off in the border country between England and Scotland,

01:00:31.319 --> 01:00:34.259
which is where I was originally brought up, incidentally.

01:00:34.359 --> 01:00:39.459
But I went back there at the age of 19 and got that job in the original TV station.

01:00:39.839 --> 01:00:46.319
And I found myself there. And 1968, this was the year, and.

01:00:47.244 --> 01:00:51.764
The Russians, the communist Russians, the Soviets, with their tanks,

01:00:52.304 --> 01:00:59.084
rolled into neighboring Czechoslovakia, part of their Soviet empire, if you like.

01:00:59.204 --> 01:01:05.204
But at the time, they were attempting some liberal changes, and the Soviet powers

01:01:05.204 --> 01:01:10.464
decided to crush this liberal attempt by force of arms.

01:01:10.604 --> 01:01:15.244
That's what they did, the 1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia.

01:01:15.244 --> 01:01:21.484
Now, we had a local angle on this in the British border country, oddly enough.

01:01:21.824 --> 01:01:28.864
I happened to have interviewed a few weeks before the daughter of one of the

01:01:28.864 --> 01:01:32.384
leaders of the Czech Communist Party.

01:01:32.644 --> 01:01:37.844
She was a student at the time herself, the same age as me, I think.

01:01:37.844 --> 01:01:42.104
And she was on an international work camp doing voluntary work,

01:01:42.244 --> 01:01:48.044
digging ditches, in fact, in our area, helping to improve the infrastructure

01:01:48.044 --> 01:01:52.544
of our rather benighted part of the country. Not very well developed.

01:01:53.904 --> 01:01:59.264
She had pretty good English and I did an interview with her about that job of

01:01:59.264 --> 01:02:01.684
ditch digging, basically.

01:02:02.204 --> 01:02:09.364
And it was a good local story for us, these Floriners coming in to help us out.

01:02:09.984 --> 01:02:16.904
But then suddenly, I realized that her father realized this on the night of the invasion.

01:02:17.184 --> 01:02:24.384
The Soviet communists had waved a piece of paper saying that the Czech communists,

01:02:24.624 --> 01:02:30.104
in the person, in fact, of this girl's father, Vasil Vilak was his name.

01:02:30.124 --> 01:02:35.284
He was the secretary of the Czechoslovak Communist Party. He had,

01:02:35.384 --> 01:02:39.004
quote-unquote, invited the Russians in.

01:02:39.424 --> 01:02:43.644
So he was a vital part of that invasion process.

01:02:43.804 --> 01:02:49.084
But what had happened, I only discovered this after a phone call from the volunteer

01:02:49.084 --> 01:02:51.944
work camp that came to me that same night,

01:02:52.104 --> 01:03:00.184
was that the young daughter had been taken away from the volunteer camp by two

01:03:00.184 --> 01:03:03.764
guys who pretty obviously were Russian agents.

01:03:04.164 --> 01:03:10.784
And had taken her to the local railhead and got the train down to London and then bundled her.

01:03:10.984 --> 01:03:16.704
Apparently, according to eyewitnesses that saw this, she was reluctant but evidently

01:03:16.704 --> 01:03:25.784
in a rather drugged state and was hustled onto an aeroflot, the Russian state airline plane,

01:03:25.964 --> 01:03:31.824
and flown to Moscow to join her father, who, of course, by then was in Moscow,

01:03:32.084 --> 01:03:35.644
the safest place for him to be in these circumstances.

01:03:36.224 --> 01:03:41.004
And that was an incredible cloak and dagger spy story for me.

01:03:41.344 --> 01:03:45.884
And with my little local angle in the Scottish border country,

01:03:46.124 --> 01:03:49.324
my story was featured on the national news.

01:03:49.324 --> 01:03:55.544
And as I say, I was 19 years old and there I was on the national news in Britain.

01:03:55.544 --> 01:04:01.044
And I couldn't be more happy about the way my job was going.

01:04:01.801 --> 01:04:07.601
Yeah, so that was pretty much the kind of the spark, but since,

01:04:07.801 --> 01:04:17.181
and you've had an extensive career in it, what story do you feel was the one

01:04:17.181 --> 01:04:20.461
that moved you the most or the one that you,

01:04:20.741 --> 01:04:23.061
you know, had a bigger impact on you?

01:04:23.061 --> 01:04:28.681
Of all these people you've interviewed and all these places you've been throughout

01:04:28.681 --> 01:04:34.261
the globe, what story resonates with you besides that very first one?

01:04:34.641 --> 01:04:37.921
Well, I think it's a body of work, Eric, to be honest.

01:04:38.561 --> 01:04:43.761
I pretty doggedly stuck to a reporting of one area of interest,

01:04:43.761 --> 01:04:51.141
which was very strong for me, which is the last vestiges of white supremacy in Africa.

01:04:51.141 --> 01:04:57.161
There was a recalcitrant body of white supremacy in Southern Africa,

01:04:57.161 --> 01:05:01.721
especially, that lingered on and on through the 20th century.

01:05:01.721 --> 01:05:07.301
Essentially, countries like South Africa, with its notorious policy of apartheid,

01:05:07.741 --> 01:05:13.861
white control, institutionalized and militarized in a horribly oppressive way,

01:05:14.061 --> 01:05:20.641
and similar kinds of oppression in Mozambique, which is a so-called colony.

01:05:20.641 --> 01:05:25.161
A possession was the phrase that they used of a European power,

01:05:25.641 --> 01:05:29.081
a white European power, in this case, Portugal.

01:05:29.441 --> 01:05:35.221
And there was also the country that we now know, Zimbabwe, but at that time was called Portugal.

01:05:36.244 --> 01:05:41.424
Southern Rhodesia. There were two Rhodesias, both colonies of Britain,

01:05:41.704 --> 01:05:43.864
named after a Brit Rhodes,

01:05:44.324 --> 01:05:55.384
the man who has instituted for us as modern-day people, looking back to him.

01:05:55.904 --> 01:06:03.284
Founder of the, at least the name, the man for whom is named the Rhodes Scholarships

01:06:03.284 --> 01:06:10.224
that enable people in the English-speaking world to go to Britain to do their college education.

01:06:10.504 --> 01:06:20.124
So a whole sort of atmosphere of British imperial domination of the world was

01:06:20.124 --> 01:06:24.364
exemplified by these last remnants of the empire, really.

01:06:24.624 --> 01:06:27.964
There was northern Rhodesia as well, which we now know as Zambia,

01:06:28.104 --> 01:06:31.204
and that was a long liberation struggle as well.

01:06:31.204 --> 01:06:37.044
In southern Indonesia, it was complicated by the white settlers setting up their

01:06:37.044 --> 01:06:41.964
own government in rebellion against their own imperial country, Britain.

01:06:42.204 --> 01:06:51.404
And the same was true of a former German colony, which ended up being controlled by a sort of proxy rule.

01:06:51.584 --> 01:06:56.124
Germans called it Southwest Africa. We now know it as Namibia.

01:06:56.324 --> 01:07:00.104
And there was Angola, another Portuguese possession. And

01:07:00.104 --> 01:07:05.104
I reported in all these countries because I think I was really enthralled by

01:07:05.104 --> 01:07:12.524
this determined struggle of African people to throw off these final shackles

01:07:12.524 --> 01:07:18.204
that were still remaining in that part of Africa and establish final liberation.

01:07:18.504 --> 01:07:24.744
And I'm glad to say in my lifetime, I saw it happen in all these countries.

01:07:24.744 --> 01:07:29.564
And that was exhilarating, really exhilarating to pursue that struggle and report

01:07:29.564 --> 01:07:31.624
it fully for the Western world.

01:07:32.424 --> 01:07:40.184
Yeah, so let me ask you, because that kind of gets me to a question that usually people ask me.

01:07:41.907 --> 01:07:50.887
Why do you think now that we in the Western world, and I say,

01:07:50.967 --> 01:07:56.467
well, let's just say the United States, because I don't know how extensive it is, you know,

01:07:56.847 --> 01:07:58.967
with the BBC and all that.

01:07:58.967 --> 01:08:07.487
But in the United States, why do you think that we don't cover Africa like they did, you know,

01:08:07.707 --> 01:08:14.067
during the moves of independence and even really, really since apartheid ended?

01:08:14.347 --> 01:08:20.367
Why do you think that we don't focus in on those stories as much as we focus

01:08:20.367 --> 01:08:22.087
in on other parts of the world?

01:08:22.087 --> 01:08:24.727
Yeah africa on the

01:08:24.727 --> 01:08:28.347
whole tends to be a forgotten continent continent in

01:08:28.347 --> 01:08:33.127
uh in american media that's true it's

01:08:33.127 --> 01:08:41.427
less true of britain and much of europe on the other hand you can see that it's

01:08:41.427 --> 01:08:47.447
it's low on the agenda compared with other parts of the world it's interesting

01:08:47.447 --> 01:08:52.227
at the moment for instance that in terms of conflict reporting,

01:08:52.547 --> 01:08:56.567
which is a large part of my portfolio too, but nowadays,

01:08:56.567 --> 01:09:02.367
you'll find even really sensible newspapers like the New York Times and the

01:09:02.367 --> 01:09:08.067
Washington Post talking about two major wars going on in the world at the moment.

01:09:08.447 --> 01:09:14.587
Israel and Gaza, and of course, Lebanon and Syria too, as sort of side fronts

01:09:14.587 --> 01:09:21.187
in that same war, and the war of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

01:09:21.527 --> 01:09:28.267
What seems to be forgotten is that there's a horrific war going on in Sudan,

01:09:29.087 --> 01:09:30.707
in North Central Africa.

01:09:31.967 --> 01:09:36.607
And why is that the case? Why is that forgotten? Largely forgotten,

01:09:36.607 --> 01:09:39.527
I should say. I mean, there are reporters who...

01:09:40.592 --> 01:09:45.832
Reported afterwards that do still report it, but it's not the mass media in

01:09:45.832 --> 01:09:47.892
general that's covering it at all.

01:09:48.092 --> 01:09:53.192
It's low down in the totem pole of stories of interest.

01:09:53.552 --> 01:09:57.312
And why is that? I think I have to put it down to history,

01:09:57.312 --> 01:10:00.832
that institutions in the

01:10:00.832 --> 01:10:03.892
West have always downplayed africa

01:10:03.892 --> 01:10:07.672
it was was historically an area

01:10:07.672 --> 01:10:11.032
that was exploited and then

01:10:11.032 --> 01:10:13.812
eventually gained its freedom from that

01:10:13.812 --> 01:10:20.532
exploitation for many people in western media that's in a sense the end of the

01:10:20.532 --> 01:10:25.152
matter and africa is not that important anymore which is extraordinary because

01:10:25.152 --> 01:10:31.552
apart from anything else just in the West's own self-interest,

01:10:31.552 --> 01:10:38.092
you would think it would be good to maintain relations and remain in fruitful

01:10:38.092 --> 01:10:40.432
contact with such a huge,

01:10:40.812 --> 01:10:44.652
and I would say in modern-day terms, capitalistic terms,

01:10:45.552 --> 01:10:48.752
potentially profitable area of interest.

01:10:48.892 --> 01:10:53.132
But is that interest expressed in journalism and in media generally?

01:10:53.592 --> 01:10:56.112
No, I'll have to admit that you're right. It's not.

01:10:56.732 --> 01:10:59.212
Yeah, I just wanted to do that.

01:11:00.592 --> 01:11:04.532
I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole with you too far, but I just wanted

01:11:04.532 --> 01:11:07.012
to kind of get your view on that.

01:11:07.372 --> 01:11:15.432
So one of the things you talk about in your memoir is about your struggle with alcoholism.

01:11:16.172 --> 01:11:24.352
Now, you know, the way that you kind of how you the way I interpret it is like

01:11:24.352 --> 01:11:31.752
you kind of talk about how you were introduced to alcohol in kind of an innocuous way.

01:11:31.912 --> 01:11:36.712
You were you were like one of the many young folks in England at that time.

01:11:36.812 --> 01:11:38.492
Y'all were involved in the music scene.

01:11:39.630 --> 01:11:42.530
I forget what instrument. I knew you played guitar. I didn't know if you played

01:11:42.530 --> 01:11:45.190
lead or bass guitar. Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:45.890 --> 01:11:49.890
And so part of your payment. Rhythm guitar. Say that again. I'm sorry.

01:11:50.250 --> 01:11:53.050
It was rhythm guitar. Rhythm guitar.

01:11:53.970 --> 01:12:01.870
So part of your payment for a lot of times was the local beer that was being sold.

01:12:02.690 --> 01:12:06.730
Absolutely. And so just kind of talk about why you felt that.

01:12:07.330 --> 01:12:12.010
I mean, it's part of your story. I get it, but why you felt it was important

01:12:12.010 --> 01:12:18.130
to really highlight it and then kind of ease us into it the way that you did.

01:12:19.270 --> 01:12:25.650
Well, I didn't want to. I was reluctant to write one of these recovery memoirs,

01:12:25.650 --> 01:12:32.510
you know, which have become so prominent and, I guess, popular. They sold well.

01:12:32.970 --> 01:12:36.510
They were a part of the publishing scene in the last couple of decades.

01:12:37.250 --> 01:12:40.370
But it's unavoidably part of my story that

01:12:40.370 --> 01:12:43.230
i was that i that i am an alcoholic and

01:12:43.230 --> 01:12:46.610
i was an active interesting word active alcoholic

01:12:46.610 --> 01:12:52.050
active alcoholism is is when you when you drink alcohol even though you shouldn't

01:12:52.050 --> 01:12:58.090
that's what being active in those terms is is all about and it's an important

01:12:58.090 --> 01:13:03.070
part of my story i think it's one of the defining features of my makeup that

01:13:03.070 --> 01:13:05.170
i'm powerless over alcohol,

01:13:05.250 --> 01:13:11.010
and my life is unmanageable if I keep drinking.

01:13:11.450 --> 01:13:15.550
So inevitably, I got to the point where I had to stop drinking,

01:13:15.750 --> 01:13:17.850
otherwise I would have been dead.

01:13:18.230 --> 01:13:28.650
And that process, that realization, took me to some dark places, but it also took me.

01:13:29.772 --> 01:13:38.152
A long time. I drank helplessly, out of control, eventually, for 27 years.

01:13:38.952 --> 01:13:42.712
And mercifully, that's way behind me now.

01:13:43.432 --> 01:13:49.652
It's 33 years since I last had an alcoholic drink or any kind of mood-altering substance.

01:13:49.812 --> 01:13:56.252
And I can tell you, quite honestly, I prefer it this way than when I was in thrall.

01:13:56.772 --> 01:14:01.252
I was a slave to alcohol for 27 years. Yeah.

01:14:02.572 --> 01:14:07.932
And I know you were, you, you, you, you described one instance because most

01:14:07.932 --> 01:14:09.612
people, when they're going through that,

01:14:10.172 --> 01:14:15.652
you know, as long as they're functioning, they think they can kind of hide it

01:14:15.652 --> 01:14:17.812
or, you know, get past it.

01:14:18.152 --> 01:14:23.492
And I think it was one instance you said you were talking to a colleague and he said,

01:14:23.732 --> 01:14:26.832
yeah, you didn't slow your words that much today and that

01:14:26.832 --> 01:14:30.432
was your first realization that other people knew that you

01:14:30.432 --> 01:14:33.412
were it came to be a lot of those

01:14:33.412 --> 01:14:36.592
instances yeah people got very very

01:14:36.592 --> 01:14:43.112
well aware of my uh incapacity and and yeah you're right i thought i was getting

01:14:43.112 --> 01:14:49.552
away with it people like me often do in a way i guess i did get away with it

01:14:49.552 --> 01:14:54.792
for a while but you know i couldn't do it forever. It's unsustainable.

01:14:55.752 --> 01:15:01.992
Alcoholism is a progressive disease, and it has a certain progress which it has to go along.

01:15:02.372 --> 01:15:05.252
That's how diseases work.

01:15:05.672 --> 01:15:09.972
And it's getting worse and worse. And in the end, it couldn't be concealed.

01:15:10.192 --> 01:15:16.132
And I had to opt for the opposite course. I had to try and give up. And it wasn't easy.

01:15:16.472 --> 01:15:23.452
You know, for a lot of people, it's not easy. I was highly dependent upon alcohol, but mercifully,

01:15:23.832 --> 01:15:28.692
I somehow rather got a break, and eventually, the whole idea of recovery and

01:15:28.692 --> 01:15:31.492
staying away from a drink, an alcoholic drink,

01:15:31.832 --> 01:15:36.652
one day at a time, managed to stick, and those days turned into weeks and months

01:15:36.652 --> 01:15:40.332
and years, and now, as I say, it's 33 years.

01:15:40.912 --> 01:15:50.012
Yeah. Well, congratulations on the sobriety and for having the courage to talk about it.

01:15:50.932 --> 01:15:56.272
One of the other things that's compelling about the book is you,

01:15:56.552 --> 01:16:01.832
because the way I like, because you don't hit the readers over the head,

01:16:01.992 --> 01:16:04.612
you just kind of take us on the journey together.

01:16:05.188 --> 01:16:12.168
And and it's like part of your journey was that you drifted away from your upbringing

01:16:12.168 --> 01:16:14.428
in the southern borderlands.

01:16:14.608 --> 01:16:20.988
It was almost like any anything was kind of an excuse to kind of distance yourself from it.

01:16:21.368 --> 01:16:27.728
And then and then eventually you decided, yeah, I need to find out some stuff.

01:16:27.848 --> 01:16:32.468
So what what was the compelling thing without giving too much and making sure

01:16:32.468 --> 01:16:38.148
that people read the book? What was the most compelling thing that you decided,

01:16:38.168 --> 01:16:40.548
I need to reconnect with my roots?

01:16:42.328 --> 01:16:49.568
Well, I don't want to give too much away in the book either, but I can say this.

01:16:50.588 --> 01:16:55.928
I mean, it's interesting that you should bring up the alcoholism because I didn't

01:16:55.928 --> 01:17:01.088
think that I was making too much of it in the book, but it was an undeniable thread.

01:17:01.088 --> 01:17:06.228
And the important point came, I suppose, when I had stopped drinking,

01:17:06.408 --> 01:17:10.988
because then I was in a wholly new situation. I was in a wholly new situation

01:17:10.988 --> 01:17:15.408
in many different ways at the same time as it happened. I stopped drinking.

01:17:15.688 --> 01:17:20.268
I'd also changed countries. I'd moved from Britain to the United States.

01:17:20.268 --> 01:17:23.728
I was having to find my feet in a wholly new setting.

01:17:24.328 --> 01:17:28.988
And also, just as if this wasn't enough for me, I decided to get married, too.

01:17:29.308 --> 01:17:33.968
I fell in love with a wonderful woman who was originally from California,

01:17:33.968 --> 01:17:35.208
but who lived in New York.

01:17:35.328 --> 01:17:40.968
And here I was in the media capital of the world having to remake my career.

01:17:41.488 --> 01:17:47.008
So there was a lot going on. But as part of that mix, a really important part

01:17:47.008 --> 01:17:52.608
of the mix was the mindset that you get as someone who's relying on alcohol

01:17:52.608 --> 01:17:55.148
for a long time previous to this.

01:17:56.357 --> 01:18:00.217
I suddenly had a clarity that I didn't have before.

01:18:00.937 --> 01:18:08.577
And I also had this sense that it was important to look at life square on instead

01:18:08.577 --> 01:18:13.277
of avoiding its difficulties, like I think alcohol was helping me do.

01:18:13.797 --> 01:18:19.737
And indeed, my own psyche up until that point had been prompting me to do.

01:18:19.897 --> 01:18:25.697
I mean, I told myself I internalized the secrecy of my family by telling myself

01:18:25.697 --> 01:18:29.277
it wasn't important to know who my father was.

01:18:29.437 --> 01:18:34.797
I'd obviously been warned off the topic as a kid. I don't remember it ever being

01:18:34.797 --> 01:18:39.397
spelled out to me in so many words, but the message clearly was that we don't

01:18:39.397 --> 01:18:42.377
talk about this question of who your father was.

01:18:42.577 --> 01:18:46.957
And I told myself, I think, I don't mind. I don't care.

01:18:47.857 --> 01:18:53.797
I'm not particularly interested in who my father was. That's what I was telling myself inwardly.

01:18:54.277 --> 01:18:59.357
But with that new clarity that sobriety brought, I think I realized that this

01:18:59.357 --> 01:19:04.077
was all a terrible fiction that I had to do without.

01:19:04.377 --> 01:19:12.017
And I needed to pursue the question that the clarity of mind had opened up for me.

01:19:12.237 --> 01:19:17.597
And that's why I think I decided, well, I more than think I am absolutely certain.

01:19:18.177 --> 01:19:20.637
That's why I started the search in earnest.

01:19:21.626 --> 01:19:28.286
Yeah. And so if you notice, I deliberately kind of avoided asking questions

01:19:28.286 --> 01:19:32.466
about directly about the search for paternity, because I want people to read this.

01:19:32.746 --> 01:19:40.286
I think it's it's it's very, very compelling to listen to your life or read

01:19:40.286 --> 01:19:44.506
your life story and how you got to that point where it's like,

01:19:44.746 --> 01:19:48.846
yeah, I need to find out who I am. Right.

01:19:49.066 --> 01:19:54.486
And and and and and I want people to get the book to see if you got the answer.

01:19:54.966 --> 01:19:59.006
So the name of the book is, again, a question of fraternity.

01:19:59.306 --> 01:20:04.806
My life as an unaffiliated reporter and an author who I've had the privilege

01:20:04.806 --> 01:20:09.786
of talking to for the last 30 minutes or so is David Terescik.

01:20:10.146 --> 01:20:13.266
And I've probably said his name 15 different ways.

01:20:13.266 --> 01:20:16.666
Uh but and

01:20:16.666 --> 01:20:21.906
it's open to interpretation it's open to it and you and you've got a really

01:20:21.906 --> 01:20:26.986
good actually though eric it's terrorist trick and that's that's the thing i'm

01:20:26.986 --> 01:20:32.106
trying to get in my mind this terrorist trick chuck it's terrorist truck and

01:20:32.106 --> 01:20:35.306
so david it's been an honor to have you on.

01:20:36.386 --> 01:20:41.666
I i vaguely you know i was a news junkie when i was young so i i you know having

01:20:41.666 --> 01:20:45.366
seen you now I was like, yeah, I remember seeing him, you know what I'm saying?

01:20:45.386 --> 01:20:51.026
And on the TV pop up every now and then, but it's really been an honor to talk

01:20:51.026 --> 01:20:54.206
to you and I wish you really much success on the book.

01:20:55.446 --> 01:20:59.606
And before I let you go though, there's two things I usually do.

01:20:59.726 --> 01:21:03.046
I usually ask people how folks can get the book and all that.

01:21:03.806 --> 01:21:11.706
But one question I usually ask folks is that what, what do you want the reader to get from your book?

01:21:12.624 --> 01:21:18.984
As they go on this journey with you? Well, I think a question of paternity as

01:21:18.984 --> 01:21:25.584
a book title sort of sums it up, but it applies to more issues than just paternity.

01:21:25.904 --> 01:21:31.184
I venture to suggest, I hope that this book is of some help.

01:21:31.344 --> 01:21:36.704
If people are living in family situations where there is some dark secret,

01:21:36.984 --> 01:21:39.484
which is making life difficult for them.

01:21:39.684 --> 01:21:43.424
I really hope people will ask questions.

01:21:43.824 --> 01:21:47.384
Questions are really important to me. That's almost inevitable.

01:21:47.744 --> 01:21:52.144
I'm a journalist. But I think it's really important to ask questions when you're

01:21:52.144 --> 01:21:57.564
in a situation, a family situation, especially when things are being kept from you.

01:21:57.864 --> 01:22:04.804
And I would suggest that I hope And this book is an illustration of how asking

01:22:04.804 --> 01:22:12.644
questions can lead to an easing of that kind of secrecy,

01:22:12.784 --> 01:22:16.884
the toxic kind of secrecy that many families suffer from.

01:22:17.524 --> 01:22:22.664
So where can people get the book? How can people reach out to you to talk about

01:22:22.664 --> 01:22:24.284
the book or other things?

01:22:25.064 --> 01:22:30.584
The book's available on Amazon in both paperback form and an audio book and an e-book.

01:22:31.184 --> 01:22:36.184
And my own website is the best way to reach me. It's themediabeat.com.

01:22:37.144 --> 01:22:41.644
The Media Beat, which is my weekly commentary about the media.

01:22:42.724 --> 01:22:45.924
Themediabeat.com. And you'll find details of the book there, too.

01:22:46.804 --> 01:22:51.644
All right. Well, David Tereshchuk, I greatly appreciate you coming on the podcast.

01:22:52.164 --> 01:22:56.284
Thank you. Thank you so much for that. And again, I wish you much success.

01:22:56.884 --> 01:22:58.504
Thank you very much, Eric.

01:22:59.224 --> 01:23:01.504
All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:23:04.400 --> 01:23:14.960
Music.

01:23:14.802 --> 01:23:22.542
We are back. So I want to thank my guests, Ollie Nervous, Henry Dickerson,

01:23:22.862 --> 01:23:27.762
and David Tereshchik for coming on the show.

01:23:31.062 --> 01:23:39.722
As you kind of figured out, it wasn't another post-mortem show about the election.

01:23:41.522 --> 01:23:50.822
And what I'm going to try to do, you know, I may get some guests coming on to give some assessments,

01:23:51.522 --> 01:23:58.802
but the main thing I think we need to focus on is going forward, right?

01:23:59.942 --> 01:24:05.022
I've stated my opinion. If you listen to a lot of podcasts, you've heard a lot

01:24:05.022 --> 01:24:09.442
of people give their opinions and analysis and all that.

01:24:11.122 --> 01:24:17.702
So it's time to move forward. Time to figure out how we're going to navigate this.

01:24:18.562 --> 01:24:28.322
A couple of pieces of advice. I don't think you can go after somebody politically and, in effect,

01:24:28.642 --> 01:24:34.422
hinder their opportunity to advance and then come right back and ask them for a favor.

01:24:35.342 --> 01:24:41.742
And I would love for people who are doing that to come on a podcast and kind

01:24:41.742 --> 01:24:46.822
of explain what your thought process is, because if you didn't want that person

01:24:46.822 --> 01:24:49.322
in office, you don't need their help.

01:24:51.091 --> 01:24:56.191
Because if they had gotten elected, they would have been in a better position to help.

01:24:56.971 --> 01:25:02.291
But since you actively campaigned against them, there's not much they can do.

01:25:02.671 --> 01:25:06.971
At this particular point in time, this is kind of like what we call the lame duck period.

01:25:07.191 --> 01:25:13.111
Now, you know, we still have a function, and I think people are going to fulfill

01:25:13.111 --> 01:25:19.371
their obligation the best they can. But you've taken away a great deal of leverage for them.

01:25:21.311 --> 01:25:27.491
And even though they tried to warn you that if you go with the other option

01:25:27.491 --> 01:25:32.671
or you allow the other option to win, that road is going to be a lot harder

01:25:32.671 --> 01:25:35.251
for you to achieve what you wanted to achieve.

01:25:36.991 --> 01:25:44.631
But there's an old saying in the black community, a soft ass is a cure for a hard head.

01:25:45.931 --> 01:25:51.851
And sometimes you're just going to have to get your teeth kicked in in order

01:25:51.851 --> 01:25:58.831
to understand allyship, in order for you to understand big picture.

01:25:59.831 --> 01:26:04.811
If you get emotional about it and not rational about it, no matter how pissed

01:26:04.811 --> 01:26:07.611
you are, you're not going to succeed.

01:26:08.711 --> 01:26:13.631
Emotion can only take you so far. It may give you an adrenaline boost.

01:26:13.631 --> 01:26:16.251
It may give you a small victory.

01:26:16.891 --> 01:26:21.451
But in order to win the long game, you got to have a strategy. You got to be rational.

01:26:21.971 --> 01:26:28.911
You got to read the room. You got to see what's going on and then plan accordingly.

01:26:29.791 --> 01:26:33.511
There are some people will say, oh, you're directing that one particular group. No, no.

01:26:34.111 --> 01:26:42.071
There were different interests that made decisions based on emotion leading into this election.

01:26:42.611 --> 01:26:47.891
They weren't thinking rational at all. And now here we are. Right.

01:26:48.511 --> 01:26:56.651
The other thing is, as we're looking forward, understand how things are being set up.

01:26:57.451 --> 01:27:03.611
President-elect Trump said, hey, you know, maybe the Senate doesn't need to

01:27:03.611 --> 01:27:05.811
be in session for a while.

01:27:06.331 --> 01:27:10.231
Maybe y'all need to wait. You know, y'all come in and get sworn in and all that,

01:27:10.311 --> 01:27:14.951
and then y'all just go on recess until I get everything set up.

01:27:14.951 --> 01:27:18.571
And especially after January the 20th.

01:27:20.547 --> 01:27:23.607
And, you know, people initially was like, what is he talking about? What is he doing?

01:27:23.907 --> 01:27:28.287
Well, there's a strategy behind that. So the strategy is if there's no Senate,

01:27:28.927 --> 01:27:32.967
then we have a provision kicking in called a recess appointment.

01:27:34.527 --> 01:27:38.387
Now, that was something that was done back in the day because,

01:27:38.927 --> 01:27:41.547
first of all, the inauguration wasn't until March.

01:27:42.187 --> 01:27:47.527
It wasn't always in January. It was in March, like the first week or whatever.

01:27:49.547 --> 01:27:54.327
And the Senate wasn't full-time. I don't think Congress was full-time.

01:27:54.507 --> 01:27:57.107
I don't think the House or the Senate was full-time at one point.

01:27:58.207 --> 01:28:04.827
So it's like if the president had to make an appointment and the Senate was not in session,

01:28:05.107 --> 01:28:10.487
then it was like they had to have a recess appointment for that agency or that

01:28:10.487 --> 01:28:15.627
office to function until the advise and consent procedures could kick in when

01:28:15.627 --> 01:28:16.807
the Senate was convened.

01:28:17.527 --> 01:28:19.267
But now the Senate is full time.

01:28:20.127 --> 01:28:25.767
So there's really no need for recess appointments, not unless something happens

01:28:25.767 --> 01:28:28.907
during one of their breaks, their regular breaks.

01:28:29.927 --> 01:28:35.607
But what Donald Trump wants to do is that he wants the Senate to be out when

01:28:35.607 --> 01:28:37.527
he gets sworn in on January the 20th.

01:28:38.027 --> 01:28:41.827
So he can put all these all these people that you're seeing on the news,

01:28:42.127 --> 01:28:49.047
the list of at least the phonics, the Tulsi Gabbards, the this dude that a Fox

01:28:49.047 --> 01:28:51.487
News guy that is now going to be the secretary of defense.

01:28:51.487 --> 01:28:52.967
All these people he wants, he

01:28:52.967 --> 01:28:56.067
wants to be able to put all these people in and get them to go into work.

01:28:56.907 --> 01:29:01.087
And even more importantly, Matt, get Gates, Gates, Gates, Gates,

01:29:01.187 --> 01:29:01.927
however you pronounce it.

01:29:03.907 --> 01:29:09.767
They want all these people in so they can start doing what project 2025,

01:29:10.427 --> 01:29:14.527
Trump 47, however you, wherever your plan, you want to call it.

01:29:14.827 --> 01:29:18.747
I'm going to start implementing that stuff, especially Christie Noem and the

01:29:18.747 --> 01:29:21.447
Homeland security. They want to get all that stuff kicked off.

01:29:22.047 --> 01:29:27.347
And then the Senate comes back and, you know, go through the process or whatever

01:29:27.347 --> 01:29:32.267
the case may be, because he's going to need some legislation passed,

01:29:32.347 --> 01:29:33.267
so they've got to come back.

01:29:34.207 --> 01:29:39.407
And at that point, those hearings will take place, but they've already started their work.

01:29:40.107 --> 01:29:46.547
Well, if the Senate is in, then that means that the Democratic senators,

01:29:47.007 --> 01:29:52.087
especially those on their respective committees that deals with certain appointments,

01:29:52.087 --> 01:29:53.527
they'll get to ask questions.

01:29:54.807 --> 01:29:58.487
He don't want that. He don't want that at the beginning of his term.

01:30:00.490 --> 01:30:09.350
He wants these folks to get in smoothly. And then once the ball is rolling down

01:30:09.350 --> 01:30:12.070
the hill already, then, okay, you can come in and have the hearings.

01:30:12.390 --> 01:30:14.850
And at that point, well, they already got a job.

01:30:15.810 --> 01:30:18.910
His folks then reached out to all these Republican senators.

01:30:18.910 --> 01:30:23.450
It's like, yeah, you need to support these people regardless and make it happen.

01:30:24.170 --> 01:30:28.770
He wants to railroad this process as much as possible. Now, I don't know how

01:30:28.770 --> 01:30:33.690
to read the tea leaves when the Senate didn't pick Rick Scott,

01:30:33.690 --> 01:30:36.810
because Donald Trump said that's who he wanted.

01:30:38.370 --> 01:30:43.950
And Elon Musk said that's who he wanted. But those men and women in the Senate

01:30:43.950 --> 01:30:47.350
and the Republican conference said, no, it's going to be John Thune.

01:30:47.510 --> 01:30:54.510
And John Thune was the senator from South Dakota who was being groomed by McConnell

01:30:54.510 --> 01:30:57.870
to replace him. That's who McConnell wanted.

01:30:58.390 --> 01:31:02.090
Everybody in the Senate knew that on the Republican side, and so they voted

01:31:02.090 --> 01:31:04.950
accordingly. They didn't really care what Donald Trump thought.

01:31:05.590 --> 01:31:09.610
Now, we don't know if that's a sign that the Senate is going to do what they

01:31:09.610 --> 01:31:16.350
want to do in this term with Donald Trump or they're going to capitulate.

01:31:17.050 --> 01:31:18.850
Right? Don't know.

01:31:20.310 --> 01:31:26.510
It's really, really hard to tell. So I would like to think it's a sign that

01:31:26.510 --> 01:31:31.610
they're going to do what they think is best to try to maintain the democracy

01:31:31.610 --> 01:31:34.230
on their end as much as they can.

01:31:34.590 --> 01:31:37.790
But I don't trust that. And neither should you.

01:31:39.010 --> 01:31:43.610
Nonetheless, we'll see. The other thing that's kind of going around on social

01:31:43.610 --> 01:31:49.450
media I wanted to address is I've noticed there are some folks that are mocking

01:31:49.450 --> 01:31:57.870
Senator Tim Scott out of South Carolina and Representative Byron Donalds out of Florida saying,

01:31:57.870 --> 01:31:59.330
where's your cabinet position at?

01:32:00.290 --> 01:32:04.130
Thought y'all were supposed to get one. Y'all did all this and y'all not going to get nothing.

01:32:06.306 --> 01:32:10.426
I haven't checked the news today before I started recording,

01:32:10.426 --> 01:32:14.806
so I don't know if Secretary of Housing and Urban Development has been picked

01:32:14.806 --> 01:32:18.646
up, but that's usually the black cabinet position.

01:32:19.366 --> 01:32:23.926
That's usually one kind of reserve. He's already broken tradition with,

01:32:24.306 --> 01:32:30.886
well, the tradition that President Biden was starting to have a Native American

01:32:30.886 --> 01:32:33.846
in the interior position.

01:32:36.606 --> 01:32:40.726
But housing and urban development, basically, since its creation,

01:32:40.926 --> 01:32:43.006
has had an African-American.

01:32:43.826 --> 01:32:48.346
So if that position has not been announced yet, then that's probably one of

01:32:48.346 --> 01:32:50.686
those two will be offered that.

01:32:51.346 --> 01:32:54.686
Now, they may have been offered it and they may have said, look,

01:32:54.826 --> 01:32:59.826
we want to we want to stay in Congress and do the work.

01:33:00.506 --> 01:33:03.046
Makes sense. They both got rid.

01:33:03.846 --> 01:33:09.046
I don't think Scott was up, but I know Donald's was up and he got reelected. So why not stay?

01:33:12.086 --> 01:33:17.426
So, you know, I get it. You know, folks on social media are going to do what they do.

01:33:19.426 --> 01:33:25.106
But I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't picked a HUD secretary yet.

01:33:25.706 --> 01:33:27.446
One of those two will get it.

01:33:29.466 --> 01:33:36.506
And there may be some conversations being had. It's like he has a list of people, right?

01:33:36.626 --> 01:33:43.226
Which is why the Matt Gaetz pick was a surprise because Gaetz wasn't on the

01:33:43.226 --> 01:33:46.546
list until the morning of the announcement.

01:33:47.666 --> 01:33:48.886
Supposedly he met with...

01:33:50.362 --> 01:33:54.342
President-elect Trump and President-elect Trump said, oh, yeah, okay.

01:33:55.222 --> 01:34:06.962
And then Gates resigned so that the investigation that was being held on him would disappear.

01:34:07.842 --> 01:34:13.942
And you're like, well, you know, he resigned from his job like that just because he got appointed.

01:34:14.222 --> 01:34:19.422
He ain't been confirmed and it's going to be issues and all that. He got reelected.

01:34:20.122 --> 01:34:21.682
So he resigned.

01:34:22.622 --> 01:34:26.822
Don't know if they're going to have a special election for like five minutes.

01:34:27.502 --> 01:34:31.782
Don't listen to Marjorie Taylor. I don't know if they're going to have a special election.

01:34:32.242 --> 01:34:35.242
The Senate might, but I don't know if they're going to have a special election

01:34:35.242 --> 01:34:41.182
to finish out this term that ends the 1st of January, basically.

01:34:42.142 --> 01:34:46.642
Because, you know, you've got to have so many days to have the election and

01:34:46.642 --> 01:34:51.282
get people to sign up and register, all that kind of stuff. I don't know if

01:34:51.282 --> 01:34:51.902
they're going to do all that.

01:34:52.822 --> 01:34:59.242
They might, but, you know, I don't know if they're going to do that because

01:34:59.242 --> 01:35:02.702
there ain't really nothing they're going to be trying to push between now and

01:35:02.702 --> 01:35:06.002
the start of the next congressional session.

01:35:06.002 --> 01:35:11.882
So, but he's okay, because even if he doesn't get.

01:35:14.129 --> 01:35:17.289
For whatever reason, he doesn't get to be attorney general. He'll still be a

01:35:17.289 --> 01:35:20.009
member of the House because he got reelected.

01:35:20.249 --> 01:35:25.029
So he'll get sworn in with the new group first week in January.

01:35:26.769 --> 01:35:29.869
So that's that. But the main reason why

01:35:29.869 --> 01:35:36.369
he resigned was to shut down the investigation, which I guess is smart.

01:35:38.009 --> 01:35:42.269
But it just kind of shows the kind of people that we're dealing with and we're

01:35:42.269 --> 01:35:44.469
going to be dealing with for the next four years. years.

01:35:45.029 --> 01:35:49.669
We've already been kind of dealing with them. Now it's about to go to a whole new level.

01:35:50.529 --> 01:35:54.029
And I need y'all to be prepared for that. And I need y'all to be ready to do

01:35:54.029 --> 01:35:56.329
some work when the call is made.

01:35:57.349 --> 01:36:04.449
And for those of you who realized, oh, I made a mistake, which I don't really buy into that, right?

01:36:04.749 --> 01:36:08.449
You voted for who you wanted to vote for. You did what you wanted to do.

01:36:09.109 --> 01:36:15.389
So let's not say mistake. Let's say regret. But then when the call is sent out

01:36:15.389 --> 01:36:21.709
this time, if you know better, you do better, then we expect to see you, right,

01:36:22.629 --> 01:36:25.309
if called upon.

01:36:26.149 --> 01:36:33.009
Because I don't know how real or how long the sabbatical from black women is

01:36:33.009 --> 01:36:37.049
going to be as far as fighting for causes. I have no idea.

01:36:37.649 --> 01:36:42.469
I don't know if it's just a few that are influencers or it's a general consensus

01:36:42.469 --> 01:36:43.909
in the community. I don't know.

01:36:44.549 --> 01:36:48.329
Nobody's really talking about it like that. We do have one sister that's out

01:36:48.329 --> 01:36:54.129
there with a Black Project 2025, and I'm going to do my best to get her on the podcast.

01:36:55.846 --> 01:37:00.686
But, yeah, I don't know how long it is, so you might have to do the work yourself.

01:37:01.426 --> 01:37:05.426
But if you're called upon and you really feel the way that you feel,

01:37:05.826 --> 01:37:07.986
we expect you to come forward.

01:37:08.606 --> 01:37:14.626
Because, again, words and bracelets and trinkets and whatever else is not going

01:37:14.626 --> 01:37:16.606
to cut it. It's all about action.

01:37:17.286 --> 01:37:21.786
It is all about action from this point forward. So, you know,

01:37:21.926 --> 01:37:25.986
when the call to arms is raised, we'll see who shows up.

01:37:26.646 --> 01:37:29.006
Bottom line, that's where we are.

01:37:29.886 --> 01:37:37.046
Instead of pointing fingers at other people, we need to be pointing in which direction we need to go.

01:37:38.606 --> 01:37:44.646
And I know we got to do the autopsy and figure out what went wrong and all this stuff and all that.

01:37:45.086 --> 01:37:50.546
You pretty much know. You don't want to say it. But you pretty much know what went wrong.

01:37:51.126 --> 01:37:54.766
America is what it is. The question is,

01:37:55.026 --> 01:38:01.386
how can we navigate America now that you know what it is in order to get leaders

01:38:01.386 --> 01:38:07.286
to take it to another level where that everybody has rights?

01:38:07.706 --> 01:38:09.886
Everybody has freedom.

01:38:10.366 --> 01:38:16.766
Everybody has peace. Everybody has prosperity. Not just the opportunity.

01:38:17.566 --> 01:38:21.646
We've been playing that game for a long time. Now it's time for results.

01:38:21.986 --> 01:38:25.246
As Dr. King would say, it's time to cash the check.

01:38:26.266 --> 01:38:30.166
It's time. So that's where the direction needs to be.

01:38:31.900 --> 01:38:39.920
I'm with my team, ride or die, but my podcast will be open for anybody that's got ideas.

01:38:40.160 --> 01:38:42.940
Doesn't matter if you're a Republican, doesn't matter if you're a Democrat,

01:38:43.180 --> 01:38:47.180
doesn't matter if you're an independent, green, liberal, I mean,

01:38:48.100 --> 01:38:50.120
libertarian, whatever.

01:38:51.140 --> 01:38:55.560
You know, whatever expertise you'll have on particular issues,

01:38:55.580 --> 01:38:56.720
you're welcome to come on.

01:38:57.460 --> 01:39:00.220
Because I'm going to be here and I'm going to say what I got to say.

01:39:00.220 --> 01:39:02.840
But if you got something to say, you can come home.

01:39:03.660 --> 01:39:06.920
Because the only way we're going to get through this, the only way we're going

01:39:06.920 --> 01:39:11.580
to go forward is that everybody has their say. Everybody works through it.

01:39:12.540 --> 01:39:18.540
And we come up with effective solutions to get us to the next level.

01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:27.280
You know, in video game terms, it's like, OK, we got to defeat this boss. This boss is hard.

01:39:28.060 --> 01:39:32.520
He thought we had passed his boss and we get to another level. There's his boss again.

01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:38.260
So we got to defeat this boss on his terms, in his room.

01:39:38.660 --> 01:39:45.520
We got to defeat this boss for good and then go to the next level. That's where we are.

01:39:46.360 --> 01:39:50.280
And I hope that you're willing to be a part of that journey.

01:39:51.620 --> 01:39:57.420
All right, guys. If there's nothing else, thank you for listening. and until next time.

01:40:00.400 --> 01:40:45.508
Music.