Revival & Purpose Featuring Michael Bedenbaugh and Rep. Pamelya Herndon

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Hello, and welcome to Another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And today, we're going to talk about revival and purpose.

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That's going to be the theme because I have one guest who has written a book

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about reviving our republic.

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And so he's got some ideas about how we can fix some of the things that are

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going on in our government and kind of safeguard them from being taken over

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by an authoritarian, right?

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And then for the purpose part, I have a young lady who is a state representative in New Mexico, a sister.

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Who is doing good work out there and wanted to highlight her and let her come

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on and talk about some of the stuff that she's working on, including something

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that's really, really amazing that they've just instituted.

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And the timing couldn't be perfect to have her come on to explain that a little bit.

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So again, the theme of this podcast is revival and purpose.

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And I hope that you enjoy our guests as they talk about those particular topics in their own way.

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We still are asking people, if you want to donate, support.jamaica.gov.jm.

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Well, supportjamaica.gov.jm. I think that's right.

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Go to that website and donate what you can.

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You know, they're still in the recovery mode there. As you heard,

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you know, we've still, it's going to take a minute.

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So whatever you can do to help them greatly appreciate that.

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And, you know, it's just one of those things where we have to reach out and help somebody if we can.

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All of us that have been through a hurricane in our life, we're pretty sensitive to that.

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And whatever anybody can do to help out would be greatly appreciated.

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Also, too, we are still soliciting supporters for the podcast.

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So you can go to patreon.com slash a moment Erik Fleming and do that.

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Or you can go to momenterik.com and do the same thing and also kind of learn

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a little bit more about the podcast if this is your first time stopping by and listening.

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Whatever you can do, we greatly appreciate it.

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Most important thing is I appreciate y'all listening and tuning in to the podcast.

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We just celebrated Veterans Day. Shout out to all the veterans.

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You know, I had my brief moment with the U.S.

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Marine Corps, you know, but I don't, you know, that's, I didn't,

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as I used to tell people, I didn't get to go to war, I didn't get to shoot at

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somebody or nobody could shot at me, right?

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But I did do like six months in a special program.

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And that short time made me appreciate what these young men and women have signed up for.

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And, you know, it's just we need to do more for our veterans than just say,

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you know, thank you for our service. There's a lot of issues that we need to

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address, you know, primarily housing and employment once they've served our country.

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But, you know, I'm glad that we take the time out to thank them for their service.

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So on that note, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to go ahead and get this program started.

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And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G. Music.

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Thanks, Erik. The U.S. Congress approved a compromise to end the longest government shutdown in U.S.

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History, restoring funding for federal agencies through January 30th.

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Democratic Representative Adelita Grijalva was sworn in by House of Representatives

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Speaker Mike Johnson seven weeks after she won a special election in Arizona.

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The death toll from Hurricane Melissa across Jamaica, Haiti,

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and the Dominican Republic has risen to 96.

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President Trump pardoned Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and dozens of other allies

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accused of trying to overturn his 2020 election loss. The U.S.

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Has escalated military tensions with Venezuela by deploying the USS Gerald Ford

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Aircraft Carrier Strike Group to the Latin American region.

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The U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal by a former Kentucky County official

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seeking to overturn its landmark 2015 ruling that legalized same-sex marriage nationwide.

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A federal judge ruled that President Trump unlawfully ordered National Guard

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troops to Portland, Oregon.

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A Utah judge threw out a new Republican-drawn congressional map and adopted

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an alternate likely to create a Democratic-leaning district.

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The head of the BBC and its new boss resigned following accusations of bias,

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including the editing of a speech by President Trump.

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President Trump ordered the Justice Department to investigate meatpacking companies

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for alleged manipulation and collusion driving up record-high U.S. beef prices.

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A Kansas newspaper, the Marion County record, received a $3 million settlement

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and an apology from the county for a 2023 police raid that violated its constitutional rights.

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Representative Bonnie Watson Coleman of New Jersey, the state's first black

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woman in Congress, announced she will not seek re-election in 2026.

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And, after 232 years, the U.S.

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Mint has made the last penny. I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for

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my guest, Michael Bedenbaugh.

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Michael Bedenbaugh is an American political commentator, author,

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and former congressional candidate whose work explores the intersection of history,

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governance, and civic renewal in the United States.

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A former president of Preservation South Carolina, he has led high-profile nonprofit

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initiatives focused on heritage, community revitalization, and public accountability.

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He received the Order of Palmetto by Governor Henry McMaster in 2021.

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A veteran of the U.S. Navy and a frequent speaker on constitutional values and

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political reform, Michael brings a uniquely grounded perspective shaped by service,

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scholarship, and public leadership.

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He is the host of Perspective with Mike Bedenbaugh and the author of Reviving

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Our Republic, 95 Theses for the Future of America.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Michael Bedenbaugh.

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All right. Michael Edwin Bedenbaugh. How you doing, sir? You doing good?

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I'm doing great, Erik. How about yourself? I'm doing fine.

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I'm really glad that your folks reached out to me to get you on and having a

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chance to kind of go through the book. I got some questions.

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I got some questions. But the main thing I wanted to do since we've just had

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Veterans Day, I want to commend you for your service.

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You were a Navy veteran from what I understand? Yes.

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Yeah. Yes, I was. So I just wanted to make sure I made that acknowledgement to you. Well, thank you.

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So how I normally go about this thing is that I start off with a couple of icebreakers.

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The first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.

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Okay. All right. The quote is, the strength of America has never been in grand gestures or applause.

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It is in the steady courage of citizens who uphold the principles of liberty,

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accountability, and responsible governance.

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Well, that's the goal, isn't it? That sounds like a nice, you know,

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America is an aspirational nation and thoughtful people who say quotes like

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that have the aspiration that that's what we should be.

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But, you know, we have a lot of people who like to speak loudly and and carry a sledgehammer.

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So, you know, that's why a citizen involved nation is why it's so important,

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because what makes this nation work is when people stand up against the winds

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and ensure that mission of aspirational liberty always is in the forefront. Yeah.

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All right. So now the next one is what I call 20 questions.

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So I need you to give me a number between one and 20. 18.

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What's one thing we might all agree is important, no matter our differences?

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That we love our children. Okay.

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That's a good one.

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That's a good one. no matter where I travel in the world, that is always a unifying

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humanity. I always say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Being a parent is a, is a magical moment. There's no doubt about that.

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Especially when you've seen them become adults.

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That's really kind of like, there's a comedian, I forget his name,

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but he says, I made a person.

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A new human. That's right.

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Well, and that's really important to me now because I just found out I'm going

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to be a grandpa. Well, congratulations on that. Congratulations.

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Yep. So that's good. Yeah. I think I got a little time on that one.

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How did a historic preservationist decide to shift his focus to preserving the nation?

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Because it's the same thing. It's I've always grown up with a sense of place,

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meaningful sense of why place matters, whether it's a historic house,

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whether it's from a mansion in Greenville,

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South Carolina, we saved to a little 800-square-foot Gullah house on the Fusky

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Island that we saved that was built by, you know,

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Friedman in 1870 to the place called the United States and what that means and

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what happens while you're standing here and what intention you put into it.

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It's all the same to me. And once I retired from dealing with localism regarding historic buildings,

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you know, at 65 and looking at legacy of children and grandchildren,

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I realized this to me is the most important thing that I can contribute to preserve.

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And here's my little piece of it, my perspective of it. And to me, it's the same thing.

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Yeah, I got you. In describing Trumpism.

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You said that the irony is striking. A faction that claims to defend the tradition

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of liberty now proposes to save it through concentration of executive power.

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How does that conflict with your vision for America?

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Well, what I'm referring to is Project 2025. And when I first put my book into

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an official form, I've been working on it for 10 years, but my book,

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Reviving Our Republic, 95 Theses for the Future of America,

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My focus has always been in the American tradition of divided power,

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of localism, of power coming up from the people, from the states who are the

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members of the federal government.

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And the Project 2025 mistrusts that.

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But they communicate clearly that people need to be regulated on what they think, how they worship,

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and only one way of worship and one way of entertainment is better.

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And that needs to be engineered and governed and best to be governed through a strong executive.

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And it is the most un-American thing I've ever heard. But it's also not surprising

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considering the past 50 years we've forgotten how to teach civic education.

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Yeah, yeah. And that's a key thing.

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And I've been very fortunate to have people who have been stressing the education part.

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And, you know, I think a lot of

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people, excuse me, especially when they're younger, take it for granted.

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And now in this in this day and age, I think it's really, really vital that

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people have some kind of political efficacy, whether it's, you know,

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just a basic understanding or they're political junkies like us. Right.

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Yeah. They kind of need to understand how this thing works to know. That's right.

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That's right. Why did you decide to mimic Martin Luther's 95 thesis in putting

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together your book, Reviving Our Republic?

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And that question means a lot to me. I grew up Lutheran.

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Oh, there you go. You're my audience.

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Well, you know, I was warned when I was telling people what I wanted to do.

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I grew up in a Lutheran area. My German ancestors came here as Lutherans.

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They shifted over during the second great awakening to become Methodist.

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But they, so I'm just a history nerd, and I like the symbolism of it.

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I like the notion of Martin Luther by himself standing up against a corrupted

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16th century Catholic church.

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And I kind of related to that and the power of one person to make a difference.

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And so I used it. You know, I had to think of things to fill out the 95 thesis

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and make it work. But I stayed, you know, honoring that. Yeah, yeah.

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What was it about Washington's farewell address that inspired you to write the

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book and make it the foundation for your reform?

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Well, first of all, I think Washington was our most important founding father, without a doubt.

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America as it exists today would not exist without George Washington at the

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helm of decision-making in the late 18th century.

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And without going all into the stories of it, But basically,

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when you look at all revolutions around the world where people overthrew a governing structure,

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it usually ended up turning immediately into a bloody civil war and chaos after they took power.

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People who know how to tear down things don't know how to build things.

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We were fortunate that we were led by people who understood how to build things.

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But because of Washington's influence, our what I think inevitable Civil War,

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because of the conflicting issues of liberty and enslavement,

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was forestalled four score and seven years to where constitutional order and

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rule of law could be set into a way that would continue after the Civil War.

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And so when he left, he realized the things that the Constitutional Convention

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had missed, the power of parties, these sort of things.

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So he gave his farewell address to say, all right, Franklin said it's a republic if you can keep it.

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Here's how I think you can keep it. Watch out for these things.

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And I really became aware of that during the 2015 when I saw the first Republican primary debate.

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When Donald Trump was first time on the stage. And I lived in New York in the

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80s. I knew Donald Trump. I knew how he acted.

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Didn't know him personally, but I understood him.

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And I also understood my people here in the rural South. And I realized we're

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getting ready to go on a really rough ride.

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And that inspired me to put all these things together and start working on putting

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the book together, which I finally was able to do by 2024.

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Yeah, yeah. So you kind of touched on it when you were answering the quote,

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but why is it important to view American citizens as architects in this system of government?

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Well, in my book, I talk about the founders. People talk about the founders of the nation.

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And in reality, they didn't found anything.

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What they did have was a entity,

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an ex-colonial entity made up of all sorts of people from all over Europe and

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England that really normally would never get along, plus the issue of enslavement,

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how all of those systems work.

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And what they did, they constructed an edifice that they felt that house this body of people.

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And, you know, they were restricted by their own 18th century perspectives,

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but they did give a way to add on to the house.

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They did give a way to revitalize the property and take care of it.

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And I consider Washington's farewell address as a maintenance manual on that

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structure and one that we have ignored to a fault into our detriment.

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Yeah, I get you. And, you know, so you're using the term architect more in...

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Using your historical preservationist background, like an architect is kind

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of like the maintenance person, the person to make sure that the blueprints are followed.

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If you want to add something, okay, you've got to get our permission to add

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something or take away something from the building.

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Well, no, not necessarily. I'm just using it as a metaphor that these people,

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the way an architect constructs and designs a home or a building,

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they constructed and designed the Constitution.

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That's what they did. And so take the metaphor to today and also using my preservation.

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You know, I am used to seeing demolition by neglect, you know,

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when you have a grand, wonderful building and the guy who owns it doesn't take

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care of it and it becomes demolished because they just neglect it.

00:21:08.749 --> 00:21:11.849
And that's where I fear where we are right now, right?

00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:17.809
But I do believe the foundation that they put in place is the best and only

00:21:17.809 --> 00:21:22.809
hope for us to find our way back to creating a civil society that they had hoped

00:21:22.809 --> 00:21:25.069
would come out of their constitutional convention.

00:21:25.349 --> 00:21:30.629
We've had a hard time trying to create that. We've had a lot of regression and fighting with it.

00:21:30.989 --> 00:21:36.709
But I still believe it is the best way to start to remake who we are.

00:21:37.249 --> 00:21:40.689
Yeah. All right. Going back to Washington's farewell address,

00:21:40.989 --> 00:21:43.369
this is what he said about political parties.

00:21:43.669 --> 00:21:47.889
However, political parties may now and then answer popular ends.

00:21:48.129 --> 00:21:53.349
They are likely in the course of time and things to become potent engines by

00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:58.109
which cunning, ambitious and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the

00:21:58.109 --> 00:22:02.069
power of the people and to usurp themselves for the reins of government.

00:22:02.749 --> 00:22:07.869
Destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

00:22:08.449 --> 00:22:12.389
So, you do agree with that statement. So, tell me why you do that.

00:22:12.849 --> 00:22:19.889
I just, it's just to be self-evident. I cannot imagine a better American prophet.

00:22:20.809 --> 00:22:26.029
Than someone who utters those words 250 years ago.

00:22:26.669 --> 00:22:32.229
And they resonate so realistically to us today and what we're facing today.

00:22:32.949 --> 00:22:37.549
These people were some of the best political observers that ever existed as

00:22:37.549 --> 00:22:40.909
a condition of the enlightenment and the reading that they were able to do.

00:22:41.129 --> 00:22:42.869
He understood what would happen.

00:22:43.389 --> 00:22:46.829
And we are living in that outcome right now. Yeah.

00:22:47.149 --> 00:22:52.589
You make the argument that candidates for public office should only receive

00:22:52.589 --> 00:22:55.169
contributions from individuals eligible to vote.

00:22:55.389 --> 00:22:59.029
Explain why that is important in reviving the republic.

00:22:59.829 --> 00:23:05.149
Well, in the book, I have 95 theses, but most of those theses are to give arguments

00:23:05.149 --> 00:23:09.369
of why the 40 policy points I propose are important.

00:23:09.569 --> 00:23:12.649
And that is one of the policy points I have.

00:23:12.809 --> 00:23:18.549
And to me, it's the most important because as you were in political office,

00:23:18.849 --> 00:23:24.669
I ran for Congress in my district, the reddest district in the nation, one of the reddest.

00:23:24.669 --> 00:23:28.049
And I ran as an independent and I

00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:31.009
saw a kind of

00:23:31.009 --> 00:23:34.349
a colonial attitude of outside forces who

00:23:34.349 --> 00:23:42.169
would come in and inject into localism their agenda and they did that through

00:23:42.169 --> 00:23:48.429
money my my opponents who got nine hundred thousand dollars just for a house

00:23:48.429 --> 00:23:51.789
seat and half of that came from out of state,

00:23:52.569 --> 00:23:55.669
so you know we have the issue of citizens united

00:23:55.669 --> 00:23:58.689
where the supreme court

00:23:58.689 --> 00:24:01.689
recognized the fact that the constitution does not

00:24:01.689 --> 00:24:06.949
differentiate between natural persons and artificial personas which i think

00:24:06.949 --> 00:24:12.789
can be fixed but one of those things that i think we need if if if contributing

00:24:12.789 --> 00:24:17.929
money and contributing resources is a form of speech which i don't necessarily

00:24:17.929 --> 00:24:20.089
disagree with i don't i don't know.

00:24:20.971 --> 00:24:27.171
Hear and haw that. But if that is the case, then let's make sure that speech

00:24:27.171 --> 00:24:32.791
comes from the folks that can vote for that person that has the effect and not outside forces.

00:24:33.031 --> 00:24:36.411
So that's just one of the elements, I think. And every time I tell people this

00:24:36.411 --> 00:24:41.251
little thing, you can only give money to who you can vote for, individuals, period.

00:24:42.051 --> 00:24:45.531
You know, people go, oh, wow. I'm like, okay,

00:24:45.711 --> 00:24:50.611
well, there's one let's go through 40 more well you

00:24:50.611 --> 00:24:54.691
know ladies and gentlemen if you had any doubts that that the good gentleman

00:24:54.691 --> 00:25:00.991
was from south carolina when he used the phrase here in hall that's it the fact

00:25:00.991 --> 00:25:07.971
that he's from the deep south yeah i couldn't i couldn't let you get away with

00:25:07.971 --> 00:25:09.391
that way. That's awesome.

00:25:09.771 --> 00:25:17.311
You advocate for term limits. Yeah. Now, here's my concern to somebody that's been elected.

00:25:17.951 --> 00:25:22.891
One, capital staff would have more influence because they are not term limited

00:25:22.891 --> 00:25:26.451
and would have more institutional knowledge than the people who are elected.

00:25:27.219 --> 00:25:32.259
Two, lack of institutional knowledge may impact the effectiveness of legislators,

00:25:32.499 --> 00:25:36.939
making them more susceptible to passing legislation that violates the Constitution

00:25:36.939 --> 00:25:41.239
and is more influenced by popular opinion rather than prudence.

00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:46.439
And then three, corporate interests could create candidate mills where they

00:25:46.439 --> 00:25:51.419
produce candidates that are electable to the masses and yet serve their corporate masters.

00:25:51.419 --> 00:25:58.579
Now, the third one, the reason why I say that is because being in Mississippi,

00:25:58.579 --> 00:26:02.859
when I was in the legislature during that time, there were a couple of instances

00:26:02.859 --> 00:26:05.879
where we had to deal with municipalities.

00:26:06.999 --> 00:26:11.859
You know, they have limited home rule in Mississippi. And so some issues,

00:26:12.059 --> 00:26:14.099
municipal issues, would have to come to the legislature.

00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:20.879
And one of them was how long a person had to be in a particular municipality

00:26:20.879 --> 00:26:22.459
to qualify to run for offer.

00:26:23.479 --> 00:26:29.119
And what we noticed was that in the debate, we noticed that the casinos were.

00:26:29.578 --> 00:26:35.998
You know, were pushing for as limited time as possible.

00:26:36.178 --> 00:26:40.858
Because what they were doing was getting people moving in from Vegas,

00:26:41.318 --> 00:26:44.278
moving in from Atlantic City, wherever they had operations,

00:26:44.898 --> 00:26:49.978
and getting them to show, you know, to come to Mississippi and then run for

00:26:49.978 --> 00:26:54.378
the municipal offices where the cities, where the casinos were, right?

00:26:54.738 --> 00:26:57.938
Oh, my. Do you mean carpetbaggers? Yeah.

00:26:58.698 --> 00:27:04.058
And so, you know, so it was like they were plugging and playing.

00:27:04.058 --> 00:27:07.498
So it was like if they needed somebody, say, in Biloxi, right,

00:27:08.058 --> 00:27:12.138
then they would get somebody in and get them set up, you know,

00:27:12.218 --> 00:27:16.658
put them on a casino payroll and then, or just transfer them from another casino

00:27:16.658 --> 00:27:18.778
and then run them for the office.

00:27:18.778 --> 00:27:24.718
And so they wanted the least amount of time to be a resident in order to qualify

00:27:24.718 --> 00:27:26.218
them to run for those offices.

00:27:27.078 --> 00:27:31.038
That's one example. Then the other example I use is Ferguson, Missouri.

00:27:31.458 --> 00:27:38.378
As tragic as the Michael Brown situation was, it enlightened the world to see

00:27:38.378 --> 00:27:42.438
how they were operating their local government. Because here was a city that

00:27:42.438 --> 00:27:44.018
was majority African-American.

00:27:45.158 --> 00:27:49.678
But every elected official in the city was white. And people were trying to

00:27:49.678 --> 00:27:50.778
figure out how that worked.

00:27:51.018 --> 00:27:55.298
Well, all those folks that were elected to the city council worked for the biggest company.

00:27:55.858 --> 00:27:58.958
In Ferguson, which was some kind of electrical company or whatever.

00:27:59.258 --> 00:28:02.938
And so because of the tragedy of Michael Brown that exposed that,

00:28:03.078 --> 00:28:06.898
and now they have a black mayor and a couple of black city council people and

00:28:06.898 --> 00:28:08.618
black police chief, all that stuff.

00:28:09.138 --> 00:28:16.918
So that's why that third example kind of, you know, the term limits might make it more,

00:28:17.965 --> 00:28:24.105
I'd say easy for a big financial interest, a corporate interest to control an election.

00:28:24.325 --> 00:28:26.925
But go ahead and rebut those concerns.

00:28:27.345 --> 00:28:32.965
Well, that's what's happening now. I mean, corporations control the House of

00:28:32.965 --> 00:28:37.065
Representatives and these people spend all their time raising money.

00:28:37.265 --> 00:28:43.145
The issue with term limits, well, several things. We have a permanent bureaucratic

00:28:43.145 --> 00:28:47.405
state now that is out of control in the sense of they are perpetual.

00:28:48.805 --> 00:28:53.745
And we need to be able to be engaged constantly to make sure that there's perpetual

00:28:53.745 --> 00:28:58.705
bureaucracy is there for merit and not politicized.

00:28:58.845 --> 00:29:03.425
There's one thing that we have to do. The other thing is on the big picture,

00:29:03.425 --> 00:29:10.385
when you look at who we are as America today, I see the conflict between being

00:29:10.385 --> 00:29:17.485
a world hegemonic power of having the world currency as a standard currency for world currency.

00:29:18.659 --> 00:29:26.999
Discourse and economics, and also being a nation that is a federal republic

00:29:26.999 --> 00:29:30.919
where individual liberty is the most important.

00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:33.999
Those two entities cannot exist at the same time.

00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:40.999
And so when I talk about term limits, I'm also, you know, there's 40 policy points in my book.

00:29:41.299 --> 00:29:48.399
Not one policy point is going to work unless at least 10 or 11 other ones go along with it,

00:29:48.639 --> 00:29:53.379
which is the decorporatization of our society that is politically active and

00:29:53.379 --> 00:29:57.199
take away political power from corporations. We have to do that.

00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:02.439
No elected leader is ever going to work for the people as long as that's in

00:30:02.439 --> 00:30:04.819
place, as long as Citizens United is there.

00:30:05.199 --> 00:30:13.139
So I think the bigger picture is it is vitally important that people who run

00:30:13.139 --> 00:30:19.739
to represent their people know that they have to have a livelihood,

00:30:19.739 --> 00:30:23.559
they have to have a job and investment in their community, and they're only

00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:27.739
taking a period of time out to represent them and then come back.

00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:33.379
All those other things can be fixed, but the way it is now has so corrupted

00:30:33.379 --> 00:30:39.639
the political class that I see it as self-evident. We need to cut that off. But you're right.

00:30:39.779 --> 00:30:42.219
Other things have to happen, too, for it to be effective.

00:30:42.699 --> 00:30:45.139
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and there's,

00:30:45.944 --> 00:30:50.224
There's a certain nobility in the citizen legislator, right?

00:30:51.004 --> 00:30:53.324
Yeah, the Cincinnatus, right? Yeah.

00:30:54.184 --> 00:30:59.184
It's just, you know, that, you know, serving in that body, it was like there

00:30:59.184 --> 00:31:01.964
were people who were farmers, people that were insurance agents.

00:31:01.964 --> 00:31:06.664
Of course, you had your lawyers and doctors and all that, but it was just to

00:31:06.664 --> 00:31:14.424
have that mix of people, you would see fundamentally that the example is working

00:31:14.424 --> 00:31:16.384
or the experiment is working.

00:31:16.664 --> 00:31:21.584
And, you know, to kind of make it a career thing, because like in Mississippi,

00:31:21.584 --> 00:31:26.164
we were part-time and most states are part-time, but there are some states that

00:31:26.164 --> 00:31:29.104
are full-time legislators, Illinois and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania,

00:31:29.684 --> 00:31:30.944
I used to get tickled all the time.

00:31:31.064 --> 00:31:34.104
One of them would say, well, hey, man, have one of your staff people send me

00:31:34.104 --> 00:31:36.024
something. I said, you're talking to the staff. What are you talking?

00:31:36.984 --> 00:31:41.004
Yeah. Yeah. South Carolina is part time, too. And I want to reiterate,

00:31:41.204 --> 00:31:44.184
my book is focused on the federal government.

00:31:44.664 --> 00:31:49.964
You know, I was in city council in my hometown of prosperity of only 800 people,

00:31:50.444 --> 00:31:52.764
you know, in small towns like that.

00:31:52.864 --> 00:31:56.724
And, you know, this in Mississippi, there's really not a line of people ready

00:31:56.724 --> 00:31:58.644
to be mayor of these little towns.

00:31:58.824 --> 00:32:03.444
And usually it's the guy that everybody likes and has had some sort of been

00:32:03.444 --> 00:32:07.024
able to elevate himself in town, whatever, whatever reasons,

00:32:07.244 --> 00:32:10.624
you know, every community needs to have their own systems.

00:32:11.124 --> 00:32:14.964
And, and, you know, there's only so many people in a small town that wants to

00:32:14.964 --> 00:32:16.144
serve on the planning commission.

00:32:16.144 --> 00:32:22.684
So, but this, what I'm talking about is really focused on the federal government,

00:32:22.684 --> 00:32:28.684
which I see as a unique, different thing than what state governments are supposed to do. Gotcha.

00:32:29.444 --> 00:32:34.544
Can we ever muster the political will to get rid of the electoral college?

00:32:35.164 --> 00:32:41.384
I don't know, but I'm not necessarily sure if I buy into that we have to. And here's why.

00:32:42.227 --> 00:32:48.687
The Electoral College was the element that, you know, when they did the Constitution,

00:32:49.027 --> 00:32:55.187
they hadn't, the concept of a parliamentarian system and all of that hadn't

00:32:55.187 --> 00:33:00.467
really come into maturity like it is, like it did in the 19th century.

00:33:00.547 --> 00:33:03.367
So they didn't have that example as well. And what

00:33:03.367 --> 00:33:06.847
they were trying to do was to create kind of a parliamentarian system where

00:33:06.847 --> 00:33:14.627
other people would represent a state because they saw the states as members

00:33:14.627 --> 00:33:19.007
of the federal government and they saw the states as being responsible for putting

00:33:19.007 --> 00:33:22.247
the president in office. And so.

00:33:23.520 --> 00:33:29.420
I don't necessarily mind the Electoral College because I like the fact of us

00:33:29.420 --> 00:33:31.260
having states elect presidents.

00:33:31.540 --> 00:33:38.320
But what needs to happen to be more realistic is to have it represent the votes

00:33:38.320 --> 00:33:41.100
broken down and not winner take all.

00:33:41.280 --> 00:33:46.260
Because we have so many times where we have, you know, the Electoral College

00:33:46.260 --> 00:33:49.920
wins and the popular, the Electoral College wins, but the popular vote lost.

00:33:50.280 --> 00:33:58.120
And that's for several reasons. One, the Electoral College represents the delegation

00:33:58.120 --> 00:34:02.240
from the state, the number of representatives and the number of senators.

00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:08.500
Well, when you have representatives of 750,000 people in each district,

00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:11.800
when the nation was formed, it was only 35,000.

00:34:12.040 --> 00:34:14.600
So one of my theses is to make them smaller.

00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:21.400
But when you have that, it makes it very, very easy for those numbers to round

00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:24.840
up or round down in a way that skews the system.

00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:31.720
So I'm concerned with a purely popular election of our president because I think

00:34:31.720 --> 00:34:40.160
what we have, system we have now, is the outcome of the myth that we should be popularly electing.

00:34:40.160 --> 00:34:44.760
Because when you have popular elections, you tend to have short-term trauma

00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.180
reactions that people tend,

00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:52.340
you know, get into a trend, short-term trend, short-term reaction that could

00:34:52.340 --> 00:34:55.360
not be good for the whole body politic.

00:34:56.120 --> 00:35:01.920
So I like it, but I don't like it the way it is.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.100
It needs to go back to be truly representation and broken up.

00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.620
You know, with 30% of the people voted Democrat.

00:35:09.540 --> 00:35:14.900
40% voted Republican and 20% voted for, I think those numbers add up,

00:35:15.340 --> 00:35:20.040
voted for an independent, then the Electoral College should represent that in the numbers.

00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:26.420
Got you. So, you know, the states that, even the states that break it up by

00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:29.760
congressional district, I think it's Maine and Nebraska.

00:35:30.080 --> 00:35:36.240
You said even that needs to be tweaked, where it's like, you know,

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:44.300
so in Nebraska, if President Trump got 51% of the vote and Kamala Harris got 49,

00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:48.740
then the Electoral College should be divided 51-49.

00:35:49.020 --> 00:35:51.080
Yes, not winner take all.

00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:55.540
Because this whole thing of taking the state and red state is a myth.

00:35:55.860 --> 00:36:01.280
We are not, I mean, if you look at the real colorization of it,

00:36:01.560 --> 00:36:06.820
of a state between red and purple and really show the numbers,

00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:09.040
There is no solid color anywhere.

00:36:09.340 --> 00:36:16.100
You know, it's just not. And it creates empowerment to the political parties to manipulate that.

00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:20.380
And I think we need to remember, you know, just because someone wins an election

00:36:20.380 --> 00:36:22.500
doesn't mean they control everybody.

00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:27.140
Right. And we've forgotten that. Plus, another little element I want to insert

00:36:27.140 --> 00:36:28.660
here is the issue of constituency.

00:36:29.380 --> 00:36:36.520
We have now corrupted the concept of constituency to be only those people who voted for us.

00:36:36.820 --> 00:36:39.320
And not the people we represent.

00:36:40.580 --> 00:36:46.920
And that is probably the most dangerous trend in the way we define ourselves

00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:49.800
since the nation's founding.

00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:55.060
Because if you assume your constituency are only those who voted for you,

00:36:55.280 --> 00:37:00.080
we are doomed to eternal conflict.

00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:05.899
Yeah, you mentioned something about parliamentary system.

00:37:06.219 --> 00:37:11.179
And I threw this out to another guest, excuse me, who, you know,

00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:15.819
has issued out some reforms or whatever ideas for reform.

00:37:16.219 --> 00:37:22.839
And so with a parliamentary system, as far as our legislative branch,

00:37:23.539 --> 00:37:25.299
would be more inclusive?

00:37:25.299 --> 00:37:28.559
Because if you look at the countries that have parliamentary systems,

00:37:28.579 --> 00:37:33.839
they don't have a binary political party set up.

00:37:33.979 --> 00:37:39.959
There's multiple parties out there. Do you think that would be better for us or not?

00:37:40.939 --> 00:37:51.479
I think after 250 years, we can't change things too much because I don't trust people.

00:37:52.265 --> 00:37:57.525
The ability of us now to be able to, with all the negative influences of corporate

00:37:57.525 --> 00:38:00.825
money and everything, to try to overturn the whole system.

00:38:01.005 --> 00:38:05.345
So that's why my book goes back to the foundational systems and just revises

00:38:05.345 --> 00:38:10.765
it to where, you know, the best way for us to not have binary voting, just,

00:38:11.125 --> 00:38:16.465
you know, which automatically, you know, first past the post or winner take all.

00:38:17.465 --> 00:38:22.725
Leads to a nation that is just two parties that are constantly fighting.

00:38:22.885 --> 00:38:25.905
And that constantly shows that that divides up a nation over time.

00:38:26.205 --> 00:38:32.005
And so that's why we have to have voting reform, like ranked choice voting,

00:38:32.505 --> 00:38:35.645
like popular vote, you know, that sort of thing.

00:38:36.025 --> 00:38:39.165
And we need to, states need to do more of that.

00:38:39.505 --> 00:38:44.305
And it would help empower other parties to come along. But again,

00:38:44.565 --> 00:38:49.345
all these other elements have to happen, too, to help make all that work together.

00:38:49.885 --> 00:38:57.045
But it would be we need to have more. I love the idea of the Congress should

00:38:57.045 --> 00:39:02.625
have coalitions of parties to get legislation passed instead of dictates from

00:39:02.625 --> 00:39:06.165
the cloakroom of the caucus of one major party.

00:39:06.685 --> 00:39:09.085
That's part of our dysfunction. Yeah.

00:39:09.605 --> 00:39:15.605
So this last question I'm going to ask you in the spirit of what I've always

00:39:15.605 --> 00:39:18.265
noticed in science fiction.

00:39:18.485 --> 00:39:29.225
So science fiction to me is basically societal reform encapsulized in an entertaining story. Right.

00:39:29.825 --> 00:39:34.465
And one of the things that we used to, you know, those of us in the black community

00:39:34.465 --> 00:39:39.165
used to always notice is that y'all are creating this future,

00:39:39.165 --> 00:39:41.765
but where are the black folks in this future, right?

00:39:42.405 --> 00:39:45.785
And so a lot of times people, when they do...

00:39:46.927 --> 00:39:51.867
Particular things, I don't know if they're race conscious or,

00:39:51.867 --> 00:39:57.027
you know, by design or by, you know, just inadvertently doing it.

00:39:57.167 --> 00:40:03.667
So the question I want to ask you is, how can Blacks or African Americans benefit

00:40:03.667 --> 00:40:07.387
from this revived republic that you're proposing?

00:40:08.247 --> 00:40:16.487
Well, it takes engagement. I live in a place where in the Black population,

00:40:17.567 --> 00:40:23.247
has a lot in the rural areas have checked out of the system.

00:40:23.447 --> 00:40:24.907
They don't participate.

00:40:25.247 --> 00:40:26.907
They don't vote.

00:40:28.127 --> 00:40:32.287
And they feel there's nothing they can do about whatever's going on.

00:40:32.487 --> 00:40:38.587
So I have absolutely no way I can speak for them at all or my friends here who

00:40:38.587 --> 00:40:39.847
decide not to vote because,

00:40:40.850 --> 00:40:47.210
But I do believe that better representation, smaller districts,

00:40:47.930 --> 00:40:53.710
less corporate money, the needs of these folks in small communities will be

00:40:53.710 --> 00:40:58.730
better represented, which will then engage these folks to be involved now.

00:40:58.990 --> 00:41:05.770
And if I could divert a little bit, because, you know, we have our black representative

00:41:05.770 --> 00:41:07.790
here in South Carolina, James Clyburn.

00:41:07.790 --> 00:41:13.590
And it's interesting what's going on now, because when people are talking about

00:41:13.590 --> 00:41:16.790
gerrymandering, that's one of the things I have is no gerrymandering.

00:41:17.010 --> 00:41:18.890
Well, because our districts are

00:41:18.890 --> 00:41:24.210
so huge, 750,000 people, we have seven representatives in South Carolina.

00:41:25.410 --> 00:41:31.890
But Clyburn, in order to have a one black representative from South Carolina,

00:41:32.150 --> 00:41:36.470
they actually created a gerrymander for James Clyburn.

00:41:36.470 --> 00:41:44.830
Because his district deals with the African-American section of Columbia all

00:41:44.830 --> 00:41:49.650
the way down connecting to that section of Charleston and in the whole Lowcountry.

00:41:50.150 --> 00:41:54.690
And I see now people saying, oh, well, if you don't like gerrymandering,

00:41:55.370 --> 00:42:00.130
I mean, I see folks actually wanting to fix the gerrymander,

00:42:00.150 --> 00:42:03.310
and they're also quietly going, they'll take care of Clyburn.

00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:11.919
So, you know, we have to having smaller districts and and having representatives

00:42:11.919 --> 00:42:15.959
closer to the people than just their big donors, because there's no way you

00:42:15.959 --> 00:42:18.879
can you can really represent seven or fifty thousand people.

00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:24.219
You just represent the ones that are floating at the top and in the south,

00:42:24.339 --> 00:42:27.959
especially we know who is floating at the top.

00:42:28.179 --> 00:42:30.799
And so these folks are the ones pulling the levers.

00:42:31.319 --> 00:42:36.539
So we need to make those smaller. And I think that will, I hope,

00:42:37.059 --> 00:42:43.939
will give more opportunity for folks in rural southern areas that has been disenfranchised

00:42:43.939 --> 00:42:47.879
before and been felt like they couldn't participate in the system to then participate

00:42:47.879 --> 00:42:49.919
more. That's my hope and dream.

00:42:50.439 --> 00:42:54.779
Yeah, because, you know, the whole deal of that was...

00:42:56.200 --> 00:43:01.200
To make sure that the black population had some representation in Congress,

00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:04.600
but they didn't want it to be perverse, you know, like in Mississippi.

00:43:05.720 --> 00:43:08.360
Yeah. How did y'all do it there? What happened? So in Mississippi,

00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:16.520
it's more natural because the majority of the black population in the state lives west of I-55.

00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:21.160
In the Delta area. Right. In the Delta area coming down to Jackson,

00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:27.300
Mississippi. So the district is pretty much the northwestern part of the state.

00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:29.840
We're really the western part of the state along the river.

00:43:31.260 --> 00:43:37.080
And so, you know, it looks easy. And so now there's a guy, I think he's a state

00:43:37.080 --> 00:43:38.720
auditor. He wants to be governor or whatever.

00:43:39.100 --> 00:43:42.640
He's talking about, well, we need to get rid of Benning Thompson.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.340
So, you know, but Mississippi had that. We had this.

00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:50.680
If you draw the districts, like we got four in Mississippi.

00:43:50.680 --> 00:43:56.920
So if you draw them straight across, right, then you'll basically water down

00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:01.720
the black vote there because, you know, everybody's to the West, right?

00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:06.960
Yes. Now, in Louisiana, when Cleo Fields was the congressman,

00:44:07.060 --> 00:44:12.620
we called it the Zorro District because it was a Z that tried to catch part

00:44:12.620 --> 00:44:20.140
of Shreveport and go along I-20, then came down to Boot Park to get Baton Rouge and New Orleans.

00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:22.580
And that's how he got in because he was from Baton Rouge.

00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:27.220
And I think the worst one I remember was Melvin Watt in North Carolina because

00:44:27.220 --> 00:44:31.880
it was just— Oh, North Carolina was a mess. We couldn't, we couldn't even,

00:44:32.060 --> 00:44:34.720
it was like, bro, how do you even campaign in that district?

00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:35.360
You know what I'm saying?

00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:38.600
And then Georgia, Georgia's.

00:44:39.383 --> 00:44:45.483
I think pretty simple because most of the population is, is based in Atlanta,

00:44:45.483 --> 00:44:49.143
but you know, you have a strong pocket in Macon and Savannah.

00:44:50.103 --> 00:44:56.483
So I think that the, you know, that where they play the games at in the Georgia

00:44:56.483 --> 00:45:04.703
legislature is the suburbs of Atlanta and they try to, you know, manipulate those.

00:45:04.703 --> 00:45:11.363
This Lucy McBath has run in four different districts in the short time that she's been in Congress.

00:45:11.723 --> 00:45:16.783
Now they've been either labeled six or seven, but they've been four different configurations.

00:45:17.423 --> 00:45:22.863
She even had to knock out a fellow colleague so she could stay in.

00:45:24.563 --> 00:45:28.583
And, and, and, you know, and, and then she was going to try to get out and run

00:45:28.583 --> 00:45:30.563
for governor, but she decided not to do that.

00:45:30.683 --> 00:45:36.063
But, you know, it was just, but I can just imagine her frustration And David

00:45:36.063 --> 00:45:37.883
Scott, his district went from...

00:45:39.140 --> 00:45:45.200
Basically east of it, I mean, west of Atlanta and looping around to now he's

00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:48.720
going east of Atlanta, looping around, but he still had, you know,

00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:52.100
because he's from Clayton County originally.

00:45:52.520 --> 00:45:54.500
So Clayton County will always be

00:45:54.500 --> 00:45:58.040
in the district and he's never tried to physically live in the district.

00:45:58.300 --> 00:46:02.720
He just lives in a nice house in Atlanta, but he represents basically his hometown.

00:46:04.180 --> 00:46:08.200
Gotcha. Yeah, that's right. A lot of people don't realize you can be a representative

00:46:08.200 --> 00:46:09.700
of district you don't live in.

00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:13.040
As long as you live in the state. As long as you live in the state.

00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:18.320
And, you know, what's interesting also is, you know, the whole district thing,

00:46:18.460 --> 00:46:19.760
it originally wasn't that.

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.000
It was originally at large and people will vote for their top whatever.

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.800
If your state can produce three representatives, then if you had four people

00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:30.560
running, the top three voters got to do it.

00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:35.960
So I don't know what that would help fix it. But in the southern states where

00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:38.300
we live and where we are affected by,

00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:41.640
you know, we have that conundrum of the past

00:46:41.640 --> 00:46:48.760
where the black population is still socially isolated to some degree socially

00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:55.780
within the state and desire representation to represent their interests that

00:46:55.780 --> 00:46:58.960
a lot of folks don't relate to that look like me.

00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:04.580
So we have to figure that out. I think it would I think gerrymandering is a

00:47:04.580 --> 00:47:10.380
is a terrible thing, but I think it would be less impactful if we if we make

00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:13.460
smaller districts, because I know if we had smaller districts in the state,

00:47:13.620 --> 00:47:19.260
we would have several black representatives to represent the low country without

00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:21.960
having to gerrymander into areas. Yeah.

00:47:22.379 --> 00:47:25.959
But, you know, being in a place like ours with a history like ours,

00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:29.339
it isn't easy, man. It takes work. It takes challenges.

00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:33.499
And the problem is people have forgotten that it takes a lot of work.

00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:36.719
And now we're starting to realize it because we're seeing the outcome of a lot

00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.859
of lazy planning on what we're dealing with now.

00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:44.839
Well, as somebody that was accomplished through the crime of gerrymandering,

00:47:45.139 --> 00:47:49.299
because virtually my position in the legislature, you know, I had to participate

00:47:49.299 --> 00:47:53.099
in a redistricting. And yeah, it's not pretty.

00:47:53.379 --> 00:47:58.119
It was like the biggest thing we had to do when I was in Mississippi was try

00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:00.959
to pare our districts down.

00:48:01.259 --> 00:48:06.259
When they created a lot of the districts, they were like super black districts.

00:48:06.459 --> 00:48:10.679
When I first got elected, my district was like 85% black.

00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:17.759
And so in the redistricting, you know, I submitted my proposal and they kind

00:48:17.759 --> 00:48:20.339
of took a variation of what I requested.

00:48:20.619 --> 00:48:23.499
And so it pared it down to 65 percent black.

00:48:23.999 --> 00:48:28.259
Because what you do with that gerrymandering, it was like, OK,

00:48:28.379 --> 00:48:29.559
well, the emphasis was we got

00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:33.619
to get more black legislators because the state's like 40 percent black.

00:48:33.899 --> 00:48:38.239
OK, that's a noble thing. But what you did, if you were a Democrat,

00:48:38.579 --> 00:48:40.819
was you created all these Republican districts.

00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:45.699
Right. And eventually the Republicans, Mississippi was the last state to flip.

00:48:46.685 --> 00:48:50.945
To be all Republican and, and, you know, as far as the state house goes,

00:48:50.945 --> 00:48:57.585
but that because of what happened that led to that possibility.

00:48:58.145 --> 00:49:00.845
So, you know, like you said, it's messy.

00:49:01.625 --> 00:49:09.505
And, and like you said, it's going to take people dedicated to make it work.

00:49:09.505 --> 00:49:17.385
And for people like you, Michael Bedenbaugh to, to, to offer ideas for us to discuss.

00:49:17.885 --> 00:49:23.885
So on that note, how can people, cause we only scratched the surface of what you talked about.

00:49:24.345 --> 00:49:27.525
How can people get your book? How can people reach out to you?

00:49:28.045 --> 00:49:30.945
Just go ahead and tell the listeners what they can do.

00:49:31.145 --> 00:49:35.385
Well, the book is on Amazon and you can go on Amazon,

00:49:35.385 --> 00:49:39.025
but you also have my webpage reviving our republic.com

00:49:39.025 --> 00:49:41.765
and you can go there you can get access to my

00:49:41.765 --> 00:49:44.565
podcast access to all my articles i'm writing

00:49:44.565 --> 00:49:51.685
for the european magazine and also to purchase the book there as well so i welcome

00:49:51.685 --> 00:49:56.465
anybody to do that i appreciate it the more books i sell the more i could focus

00:49:56.465 --> 00:50:02.065
on doing this engaging in people around the country and not having to sell lake

00:50:02.065 --> 00:50:04.405
houses here in south carolina to make a living,

00:50:04.665 --> 00:50:11.145
which I would much rather do this, because this is where my mission is,

00:50:11.205 --> 00:50:15.405
is to make this place something my future grandchildren will recognize.

00:50:15.725 --> 00:50:23.685
And there is a serious concern that we could go the trajectory where we will be irreparable.

00:50:24.005 --> 00:50:26.945
We will not be able to repair the damages being done.

00:50:27.425 --> 00:50:31.965
And we have to start taking this seriously. And this is my little contribution to that.

00:50:32.085 --> 00:50:37.125
And I welcome anybody who wants to take it, read it. And I appreciate that very much.

00:50:37.765 --> 00:50:43.965
Well, Mike, I greatly appreciate you doing that and contributing to the discourse.

00:50:44.905 --> 00:50:49.645
And I'm really grateful and honored that you took the time out to come on the podcast. Thank you.

00:50:50.325 --> 00:50:53.245
Well, thanks for asking me, Erik. I really appreciate it. All right,

00:50:53.365 --> 00:50:55.065
guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:51:14.133 --> 00:51:17.573
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest,

00:51:18.233 --> 00:51:20.733
Representative Pamelya Herndon.

00:51:21.153 --> 00:51:25.533
Pamelya Herndon serves as a member of the New Mexico House of Representatives

00:51:25.533 --> 00:51:29.353
for House District 28 in Albuquerque's Northeast Heights.

00:51:29.793 --> 00:51:35.833
She sits as vice chair of the Health and Human Services Committee and as a member

00:51:35.833 --> 00:51:38.053
of the House Appropriations Committee.

00:51:38.773 --> 00:51:44.113
Pamelya also serves as President and CEO of the KWH Law Center for Social Justice

00:51:44.113 --> 00:51:49.553
and Change, a nonprofit law center focused on providing access to justice for

00:51:49.553 --> 00:51:51.433
low- and medium-income individuals.

00:51:52.330 --> 00:51:57.830
Pamelya previously served as a senior trial attorney with the Department of Treasury

00:51:57.830 --> 00:52:02.290
Internal Revenue Service, as an assistant attorney general for New Mexico,

00:52:02.570 --> 00:52:06.430
and as a deputy cabinet secretary under Governor Bill Richardson.

00:52:06.710 --> 00:52:10.150
In addition to graduating from the Howard University School of Business,

00:52:10.730 --> 00:52:13.810
Pamelya is also a graduate of the University of Texas School of Law.

00:52:14.070 --> 00:52:18.570
She is admitted to practice law in the states of Colorado and New Mexico and

00:52:18.570 --> 00:52:20.290
before the United States Supreme Court.

00:52:20.970 --> 00:52:25.110
Pamelya is also licensed as a certified public accountant.

00:52:25.650 --> 00:52:28.690
Pamelya is a former W.K. Kellogg Fellow.

00:52:29.010 --> 00:52:34.030
She serves as a member of the Board of Directors of U.S. Eagle Federal Credit Union.

00:52:34.270 --> 00:52:38.690
She also serves as an elected member of the Council of the Civil Rights and

00:52:38.690 --> 00:52:41.830
Social Justice Section, the American Bar Association.

00:52:42.770 --> 00:52:48.550
Pamelya was awarded the Purple Ribbon Award in 2022 for her innovative work in

00:52:48.550 --> 00:52:52.950
helping to provide financial resources for survivors of domestic violence.

00:52:53.190 --> 00:52:59.150
In 2023, Pamelya received a Freshman Legislator of the Year Award from the University

00:52:59.150 --> 00:53:00.870
of New Mexico Alumni Association.

00:53:01.350 --> 00:53:05.950
Pamelya has been recognized as the Public Lawyer of the Year by the Public Law

00:53:05.950 --> 00:53:11.650
Section of the New York of the New Mexico State Bar, and as the Lawyer of the

00:53:11.650 --> 00:53:13.710
Year by the Albuquerque Bar Association.

00:53:14.150 --> 00:53:19.970
Pamelya occasionally hosts community-focused programs on KUNM Public Radio,

00:53:20.190 --> 00:53:22.790
an NPR affiliate station in New Mexico.

00:53:23.210 --> 00:53:27.830
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:53:27.830 --> 00:53:32.190
on this podcast, Representative Pamelya Herndon.

00:53:43.157 --> 00:53:47.917
All right. Representative Pamelya Herndon, the Honorable Pamelya Herndon.

00:53:47.957 --> 00:53:49.237
How are you doing, ma'am? You doing good?

00:53:49.717 --> 00:53:54.417
I am doing great, and it's absolutely great to be here with you today, Erik Fleming.

00:53:54.937 --> 00:53:57.057
Well, it's an honor to have you on.

00:53:57.617 --> 00:54:02.157
You know, even though I'm not a member of the legislature now,

00:54:02.437 --> 00:54:07.717
it's still always look at people that are serving or have served as fellow colleagues.

00:54:07.717 --> 00:54:12.397
And it's really, really an honor to have you to come on.

00:54:12.937 --> 00:54:18.097
We're going to talk a little shop, but I want people to know who you are because

00:54:18.097 --> 00:54:21.437
you're a very, very incredible person.

00:54:22.037 --> 00:54:27.617
And I think that, you know, you're probably one of our best kept secrets as

00:54:27.617 --> 00:54:30.957
far as black legislators go in the country.

00:54:31.317 --> 00:54:38.117
So I wanted to highlight you and all that. So thank you for agreeing to come on.

00:54:38.637 --> 00:54:42.397
It's my pleasure and my honor to be here with you. Yes, ma'am.

00:54:42.877 --> 00:54:47.417
All right. So how I normally start off the interviews is that I do a couple of icebreakers.

00:54:48.217 --> 00:54:52.257
So the first icebreaker is a quote I want you to respond to.

00:54:52.597 --> 00:54:59.597
And the quote is, the strength of women I think is really important no matter

00:54:59.597 --> 00:55:02.997
where you are. What does that quote mean to you?

00:55:03.934 --> 00:55:08.174
One of the things that I have done in my life is I have led a nonprofit law

00:55:08.174 --> 00:55:09.354
center focused on women.

00:55:09.834 --> 00:55:13.534
And I look at what's happening in the state of New Mexico where we are.

00:55:13.774 --> 00:55:17.094
Well, we are the majority of the population in the state.

00:55:17.454 --> 00:55:21.934
And so you're absolutely right in terms of looking at the way things are going

00:55:21.934 --> 00:55:26.774
to go and develop will absolutely turn in the way in which women are leading

00:55:26.774 --> 00:55:30.374
them because they really are the leaders in lots of places and particularly

00:55:30.374 --> 00:55:31.814
in the state where I reside.

00:55:31.814 --> 00:55:36.194
Now, and the name of the law firm is the KWH Law Firm, is that correct?

00:55:36.474 --> 00:55:40.254
It's the KWH Law Center for Social Justice and Change.

00:55:40.594 --> 00:55:44.074
And the KWH is the name of my, or the initials of my mother,

00:55:44.574 --> 00:55:46.074
Catherine Wade Herndon.

00:55:46.214 --> 00:55:50.734
And she was a fighter, an advocate for women in Texas. And I can tell you that

00:55:50.734 --> 00:55:52.454
took a lot of fighting and advocacy.

00:55:52.734 --> 00:55:58.714
So when I had the opportunity to do so, I opened up my own law firm and I named it after her.

00:56:00.094 --> 00:56:08.074
All right. And then she took a secret with her to heaven because your name is

00:56:08.074 --> 00:56:11.534
spelled P-A-M-E-L-Y-A.

00:56:11.734 --> 00:56:15.574
It's pronounced Pamela, but she put the Y in there. And you said that she put

00:56:15.574 --> 00:56:17.954
the Y in all the children's names?

00:56:18.214 --> 00:56:23.294
She did. She put a Y in all of her children's names. So there were five of us.

00:56:23.434 --> 00:56:25.534
So there was Catherine with a Y.

00:56:25.754 --> 00:56:31.454
There was Lucille with a Y. There was Renoir with a Y and Jacqueline with a

00:56:31.454 --> 00:56:33.414
Y and then Pamela with a Y.

00:56:33.574 --> 00:56:36.274
I think they couldn't figure out where to put that Y.

00:56:36.514 --> 00:56:40.034
They wanted Pamela, but so they have to stick it somewhere. So it worked out okay.

00:56:40.634 --> 00:56:44.454
Well, I'm trying to figure out how she was... Well, I could see Catherine replaced

00:56:44.454 --> 00:56:47.874
the Y with an I, I guess, but she was...

00:56:48.765 --> 00:56:53.285
But she never told y'all why she put a Y in the name. She never told us why.

00:56:53.545 --> 00:56:57.705
And the only other one that's actually kind of strange, other than Pamela with

00:56:57.705 --> 00:57:00.825
a Y, is Lucille, because it looks like Lucycle.

00:57:01.165 --> 00:57:04.525
So it's L-U-C-Y-C-L-E, but it's Lucille.

00:57:05.305 --> 00:57:09.005
You know, Black people, we can spell anything anyway, but it has its own pronunciation.

00:57:09.005 --> 00:57:13.125
Well, I'm sure she had a reason, because I know in Mississippi,

00:57:13.125 --> 00:57:17.545
when I was living there, I ran to some people, you know, some black men named

00:57:17.545 --> 00:57:21.185
Sir and some black women named Mrs.

00:57:23.465 --> 00:57:28.185
What black people used to do is they would name their children after somebody

00:57:28.185 --> 00:57:30.885
or something that they had a hard time doing.

00:57:31.165 --> 00:57:33.445
Like, for example, I went to school with a guy named Major.

00:57:34.505 --> 00:57:40.645
And so his parents named him that because of where he might be in the military, but he never was.

00:57:40.805 --> 00:57:44.265
And like my grandfather, his first name was Doc, because they never thought,

00:57:44.425 --> 00:57:48.405
they didn't know if he would be a doctor as a black man growing up in the century

00:57:48.405 --> 00:57:50.085
before slaves were free.

00:57:50.285 --> 00:57:54.185
And so I found out that people were doing that for a reason.

00:57:54.185 --> 00:57:55.925
They had to give them some kind of respect.

00:57:56.085 --> 00:57:58.545
And if the way they could do it, they'd do it with their names.

00:57:59.465 --> 00:58:05.225
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Instead of calling them by title, if you call them, what's your name?

00:58:05.385 --> 00:58:08.485
Sir. Okay, sir. I need you to do X, Y. Exactly.

00:58:09.805 --> 00:58:14.545
All right. So now the next icebreaker is called 20 questions.

00:58:15.045 --> 00:58:18.905
So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.

00:58:19.465 --> 00:58:21.485
Okay, 16. All right.

00:58:22.398 --> 00:58:28.598
What is a misconception people often have about your beliefs or values?

00:58:28.938 --> 00:58:36.738
So because I grew up in Texas and because I am a member of a Baptist church,

00:58:37.118 --> 00:58:41.098
there may be a misconception, I think, that I didn't support women's rights

00:58:41.098 --> 00:58:48.458
in terms of the right to access to abortion care and any other type of assistance

00:58:48.458 --> 00:58:49.578
that they may have needed.

00:58:49.938 --> 00:58:55.118
And so, but that is not true. I want people to know that even though I grew

00:58:55.118 --> 00:59:01.338
up in that era, I do believe that women have a right to have control and autonomy over their bodies.

00:59:01.658 --> 00:59:03.578
And I make that known quite often.

00:59:04.558 --> 00:59:09.338
Okay. All right. So how did a girl from Texas who studied to be an accountant

00:59:09.338 --> 00:59:12.438
initially end up being in New Mexico politics?

00:59:13.058 --> 00:59:17.358
Well, you know what, Erik? That is an interesting story, and I'll try to condense

00:59:17.358 --> 00:59:21.618
it for you. So I did grow up in Texas, and I always knew that I was going to

00:59:21.618 --> 00:59:24.258
be a lawyer. I didn't always know I was going to be an accountant.

00:59:24.558 --> 00:59:28.678
So when I was growing up, one of the things I liked a lot was I like math.

00:59:28.818 --> 00:59:30.818
That was always very fascinating to me.

00:59:31.158 --> 00:59:36.138
But also growing up, there used to be a man by the name of Peter Jennings with the news.

00:59:36.378 --> 00:59:41.498
So he would be on television, and he did a story one day on these groups of

00:59:41.498 --> 00:59:46.798
people who are in Louisiana. And they still were living with places that had

00:59:46.798 --> 00:59:51.158
outdoor toilets at a time when that was not a thing, for example.

00:59:51.709 --> 00:59:55.349
And so at the end of his show, I remember, and I still remember to this day,

00:59:55.489 --> 00:59:58.429
he said, who will help these people? Who will come to their aid?

00:59:58.589 --> 01:00:01.769
I was sitting in front of that television watching that news story,

01:00:01.829 --> 01:00:03.429
and I said, I will. I'm going to help them.

01:00:03.589 --> 01:00:06.909
Well, I always knew I was going to go to law school, and I did.

01:00:07.089 --> 01:00:12.629
And when I graduated from high school and I went to college at Howard University

01:00:12.629 --> 01:00:16.989
in Washington, D.C., well, they had pre-law courses that you could major in,

01:00:17.049 --> 01:00:18.969
and I found them to be incredibly boring.

01:00:18.969 --> 01:00:22.629
So I decided to major in something that I found to be fascinating,

01:00:22.889 --> 01:00:23.709
and that was accounting.

01:00:23.969 --> 01:00:28.829
So I graduated in accounting, and I subsequently went to law school because

01:00:28.829 --> 01:00:32.049
when you go to law school, you can major in anything at all because everything

01:00:32.049 --> 01:00:33.809
is relevant when you go to law school.

01:00:34.169 --> 01:00:39.049
And I went to law school, and after graduating from law school,

01:00:39.189 --> 01:00:42.709
I also decided to get my certificate as a certified public accountant.

01:00:42.909 --> 01:00:45.829
After all, I'd gone through that school and that work and I should do it.

01:00:46.029 --> 01:00:51.309
So there were two women who went to law school who also had,

01:00:51.589 --> 01:00:54.829
who also went to, who also got their accounting degree, I'm sorry.

01:00:55.049 --> 01:01:00.149
And so one woman was in Alabama and her name was Audrey Anderson. She is no longer with us.

01:01:00.229 --> 01:01:04.449
She went to work for the Justice Department and me, I went to work for a big

01:01:04.449 --> 01:01:08.049
eight accounting firm because at the time, even though I graduated from law

01:01:08.049 --> 01:01:12.509
school, you had to spend time doing some audit work in order to get your certificate. it.

01:01:12.649 --> 01:01:15.649
So I had to do that and I was in the tax department.

01:01:15.829 --> 01:01:22.249
So that's kind of the story of how that all happened. But then my husband graduated from law school.

01:01:22.469 --> 01:01:26.809
He always wanted to work in, or teach rather, in a law school.

01:01:27.229 --> 01:01:31.789
And when he graduated, he went to work at a large law firm in Denver, Colorado.

01:01:32.109 --> 01:01:37.129
We both decided on Denver as a place away from his family and my family,

01:01:37.129 --> 01:01:38.089
because we thought if this...

01:01:38.548 --> 01:01:42.328
Marriage was going to work. We need to find out how to make sure that we were talking to each other.

01:01:42.728 --> 01:01:48.788
So after a while, he went to what I call a gathering of people who want to go to law school.

01:01:48.888 --> 01:01:53.008
So you all go to this one place and you're going to be with a ton of law schools.

01:01:53.228 --> 01:01:56.868
So he interviewed with the University of New Mexico. He said,

01:01:56.988 --> 01:01:58.688
you know, I don't know if I'm going there.

01:01:58.768 --> 01:02:02.048
And I said, I never heard of Albuquerque, so I know I'm not going there.

01:02:02.228 --> 01:02:06.668
And he liked it. The people were incredibly nice to us.

01:02:06.788 --> 01:02:12.768
So we ended up here in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and we've been here ever since, and I love being here.

01:02:13.088 --> 01:02:15.128
Yeah, and you got there, what, in 1983?

01:02:15.628 --> 01:02:19.728
Is that right? We got here in 1983 after our first child was born.

01:02:19.748 --> 01:02:21.068
That's absolutely correct. Okay.

01:02:21.468 --> 01:02:26.688
Because I was the reverse. I went to Jackson State, and I was a business major,

01:02:26.728 --> 01:02:33.468
but it was accounting that made me say, eh, maybe I need to stick with my first

01:02:33.468 --> 01:02:35.088
love, which was politics.

01:02:36.172 --> 01:02:40.952
I stayed a summer for summer school to switch majors and ended up being a political

01:02:40.952 --> 01:02:42.852
science major when I when I came out.

01:02:43.612 --> 01:02:47.612
So and then it was something else you said. Well, I'll go ahead and just go

01:02:47.612 --> 01:02:52.512
ahead, because one of the other fascinating things about how you ended up in

01:02:52.512 --> 01:02:56.112
this position was that it was it was a succession.

01:02:56.432 --> 01:02:58.732
So Deb Haaland, is that her name?

01:02:59.492 --> 01:03:03.152
Right. Deb Haaland. Yeah. And so. Right. So she was.

01:03:03.532 --> 01:03:08.612
No, I was. So she she got appointed by Biden to be the secretary of interior

01:03:08.612 --> 01:03:09.912
because she was in Congress.

01:03:10.272 --> 01:03:13.192
And then Melanie Sandsbury.

01:03:13.632 --> 01:03:17.792
Is that her name? Stansbury. Right. It is Stansbury. Stansbury.

01:03:18.012 --> 01:03:23.972
So she was the state representative and then she ran for the congressional seat and won.

01:03:24.892 --> 01:03:30.072
Right. And so then the county commissioners said, we're going to call Pamela

01:03:30.072 --> 01:03:33.372
Herndon and appoint her to be the representative.

01:03:33.372 --> 01:03:37.052
So when they reached out to you and offered you the position,

01:03:37.052 --> 01:03:39.992
what were you thinking? How did that come about?

01:03:40.832 --> 01:03:45.972
Well, what you should know is I had been involved in the Democratic Party for

01:03:45.972 --> 01:03:47.492
a while after getting here.

01:03:47.772 --> 01:03:53.312
And I had known Dale Collin when she was actually the chair of the Democratic Party.

01:03:53.512 --> 01:03:57.072
So that was an interesting position before she went to Congress.

01:03:57.072 --> 01:04:00.272
So she went to Congress and then, of course, she was appointed by Biden,

01:04:00.292 --> 01:04:05.812
as you indicated. And I knew Melanie Stansbury's sister because her sister

01:04:05.812 --> 01:04:08.852
was the judge of the probate court.

01:04:09.012 --> 01:04:13.032
So I'd known the family for a while before I ever met Melanie.

01:04:13.252 --> 01:04:17.132
Then she came back because she always wanted to go back to Washington,

01:04:17.132 --> 01:04:20.372
which is where she had worked. But she wanted to go back as a representative.

01:04:20.732 --> 01:04:25.132
And so what's interesting about her story is that in the district where she

01:04:25.132 --> 01:04:30.312
won, she was the first Democrat to ever win that position. So she won it,

01:04:30.512 --> 01:04:35.412
and then when she won, it was, I don't know, it was sort of like a natural...

01:04:36.136 --> 01:04:39.436
Secession. Pamela, you should be next. This is what you should be doing.

01:04:39.576 --> 01:04:43.716
And I absolutely agreed with them because I've been doing advocacy work for

01:04:43.716 --> 01:04:48.776
a long time, running after legislators who would go in the secret elevator when they'd see me coming.

01:04:48.816 --> 01:04:51.396
So now they can't do that anymore because I can follow them.

01:04:52.583 --> 01:04:54.923
Well, now you got people chasing you right down the elevator.

01:04:56.543 --> 01:04:58.623
Thank goodness for that elevator. Right.

01:04:59.023 --> 01:05:05.463
Look, because I, you know, I remember being a college student and we were lobbying

01:05:05.463 --> 01:05:10.623
up there at the state capitol and me talking to senators and representatives

01:05:10.623 --> 01:05:12.763
going down the steps. It was like he was ahead.

01:05:13.143 --> 01:05:15.883
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, sir. I need you to understand.

01:05:17.543 --> 01:05:23.223
And then, you know, and then having the roles reversed. It was I tried to be nicer to lobbyists.

01:05:23.343 --> 01:05:26.423
It was there was maybe like one or two that I was like, oh, no,

01:05:26.483 --> 01:05:27.703
let me get away from this person.

01:05:28.543 --> 01:05:35.563
And then when I was a sergeant at arms, it was like we had we had a secret stairwell,

01:05:35.563 --> 01:05:37.903
a quick way to the stairwell from the Senate.

01:05:38.703 --> 01:05:42.963
So it's like if a senator was like, hey, Sarge, I need to get away.

01:05:43.163 --> 01:05:47.543
I need to get down. And so I would kind of like stand in the way and let the

01:05:47.543 --> 01:05:50.643
senators slide past that door so nobody would get to him and stuff.

01:05:51.203 --> 01:05:58.943
Yeah, so I can relate a lot to that. And I was the county, when I was asked

01:05:58.943 --> 01:06:02.983
to run, it was a similar situation. It was a special election.

01:06:03.423 --> 01:06:07.403
And I was the county chair. And it was a couple of people in the business community

01:06:07.403 --> 01:06:11.443
came to me and said, Erik, it's your time. Because I had run for office before

01:06:11.443 --> 01:06:14.063
I lost city council positions.

01:06:14.263 --> 01:06:18.843
And yeah. And so, you know, it was just, it wasn't the county commission.

01:06:19.923 --> 01:06:23.543
It wasn't the supervisors. It was just some people in the community.

01:06:24.383 --> 01:06:27.843
And the lady who was the representative got elected judge.

01:06:28.563 --> 01:06:33.123
And so I went to her and she said, hold on for a minute. I went to her house

01:06:33.123 --> 01:06:35.963
and she came back with a list of 20 people.

01:06:36.563 --> 01:06:41.503
And she said, I need you to call these 20 folks. And if those 20 folks get behind

01:06:41.503 --> 01:06:44.123
you, you'll be the representative.

01:06:44.263 --> 01:06:47.703
And I got 19 out of 20. So that's how I got in.

01:06:48.838 --> 01:06:54.098
What has been more of a challenge for you, running for the position or serving in the position?

01:06:54.858 --> 01:07:00.418
So I think both of them are really quite challenging because of all the door

01:07:00.418 --> 01:07:04.078
knocking you have to do and the time you have to spend raising funds to make

01:07:04.078 --> 01:07:05.598
sure that you have a viable campaign.

01:07:05.598 --> 01:07:11.058
But I think that once you get inside the legislature to understand exactly the

01:07:11.058 --> 01:07:18.298
process for getting legislation completed and enacted is a very different process

01:07:18.298 --> 01:07:20.718
than what I could see from the outside.

01:07:21.238 --> 01:07:27.498
So there's lots of inside conversations, internal conversations that go on that

01:07:27.498 --> 01:07:32.018
are necessary in order for people to understand why you're trying to bring certain legislation.

01:07:32.018 --> 01:07:37.718
So it's almost like advocating again, but it's with a smaller group of people

01:07:37.718 --> 01:07:41.918
that you have to convince because their vote really matters,

01:07:42.078 --> 01:07:44.538
even though a vote matters from people in the community,

01:07:44.718 --> 01:07:49.058
but you have a smaller group that a vote really matters to get a piece of legislation in.

01:07:49.178 --> 01:07:52.838
And even after you pass it, you still have to convince the governor,

01:07:52.838 --> 01:07:55.498
you've got to sign this piece of legislation.

01:07:55.798 --> 01:08:00.638
Don't just let it sit there. So there's a lot of work. I think it's really,

01:08:00.758 --> 01:08:03.358
really challenging to get legislation through.

01:08:03.478 --> 01:08:08.278
But boy, when it happens, is that a joyous moment. It's a magical moment.

01:08:08.558 --> 01:08:13.518
I always say that campaigning is easier than governing.

01:08:14.738 --> 01:08:21.838
You know, I think that, you know, to me, it's, you know, you're going out there

01:08:21.838 --> 01:08:25.098
and you're talking to people and you, you know, like you said,

01:08:25.178 --> 01:08:26.818
door knocking and all that stuff.

01:08:27.198 --> 01:08:31.578
It's still a lot easier to talk to constituents than it is to convince them

01:08:31.578 --> 01:08:34.078
to vote for you than it is to try to convince a colleague.

01:08:34.338 --> 01:08:38.898
Hey, I need you to vote for this. I need you to get this out of committee, all this kind of stuff.

01:08:39.258 --> 01:08:42.378
And that's why I keep telling people about Mamdani. Everybody's like,

01:08:42.518 --> 01:08:45.818
oh, well, I don't know. he's talking about all these crazy things.

01:08:45.978 --> 01:08:51.198
I said he was campaigning once he gets sworn in and he's been elected before.

01:08:51.398 --> 01:08:54.778
It's not like there's anything new to him, but it's a different position.

01:08:55.058 --> 01:08:59.178
But it's like, once he starts governing, then, you know, we'll see,

01:08:59.358 --> 01:09:01.678
we'll see how it goes. I said, don't worry about him.

01:09:01.998 --> 01:09:08.538
Cause if he's a normal human being, he'll be humbled once he gets in there.

01:09:08.558 --> 01:09:12.118
But I hope he achieves a lot what he wants to achieve. I know.

01:09:12.678 --> 01:09:17.038
What is it like being a black legislator in New Mexico. Now,

01:09:17.078 --> 01:09:20.198
before you answer that, I've only been to New Mexico once.

01:09:21.139 --> 01:09:25.459
And I flew into Albuquerque. This was, I guess it was like in February.

01:09:26.599 --> 01:09:31.399
It was February of that year. So it was raining when I got to Albuquerque.

01:09:31.719 --> 01:09:36.579
But we were having a meeting in Santa Fe. So we had to go up the mountain and

01:09:36.579 --> 01:09:38.439
go up to Santa Fe. And it was snowing.

01:09:38.899 --> 01:09:41.899
And I was like, oh, yeah, okay, well, this is different.

01:09:42.199 --> 01:09:45.979
But it was kind of like, it was like San Francisco. It was like people wearing

01:09:45.979 --> 01:09:47.239
sweatshirts and shorts.

01:09:47.499 --> 01:09:50.019
You know what I'm saying? It was snowing outside. So I said,

01:09:50.179 --> 01:09:52.739
wow, this is pretty unique.

01:09:52.959 --> 01:09:58.459
Now, I didn't see too many people to look like me when I was there, when I was in Santa Fe.

01:09:58.619 --> 01:10:05.979
But I assumed there were some folks there because we went to a club and the DJ played MC Hammer.

01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:09.699
I guess maybe he saw me out there. I don't know. He played an MC Hammer song.

01:10:10.519 --> 01:10:13.919
So at least somebody was out there.

01:10:14.119 --> 01:10:18.079
But what's it like? Because like I was telling you before we started recording,

01:10:18.379 --> 01:10:23.659
my group was basically the second largest black caucus in the nation.

01:10:24.099 --> 01:10:28.599
So there were I had colleagues and, you know, even though we were from different

01:10:28.599 --> 01:10:31.099
parts of the state, we all had that commonality.

01:10:31.599 --> 01:10:36.539
And we were like a really big block, you know, as far as determining who the

01:10:36.539 --> 01:10:40.179
speaker was going to be and trying to get certain things passed. Yes.

01:10:40.699 --> 01:10:46.859
But in New Mexico, it's you and it's only four of y'all, from what I understand.

01:10:47.139 --> 01:10:49.599
That is correct. Two in the House, two in the Senate.

01:10:50.378 --> 01:10:54.518
That is correct. So, and there's 70 representatives.

01:10:55.198 --> 01:10:58.518
That's right. That's absolutely correct. Only two out of 70.

01:10:59.198 --> 01:11:04.118
How does that work for you? You know, it really works well.

01:11:04.198 --> 01:11:09.338
And I think because if you look at New Mexico as a whole, it's probably one

01:11:09.338 --> 01:11:12.398
of the most diverse states in the entire United States.

01:11:12.578 --> 01:11:17.478
So whatever nationality or culture you can think of, it's here.

01:11:17.478 --> 01:11:21.178
And so even though there are only four of us in the legislature.

01:11:21.598 --> 01:11:27.478
I can tell you that we have been successful in passing some legislation that

01:11:27.478 --> 01:11:30.198
was truly unique to Black people.

01:11:30.338 --> 01:11:35.758
So, for example, if you look at a piece of legislation that the other legislator

01:11:35.758 --> 01:11:41.618
named Janelle Anyanornu worked on with me, it was trying to make sure that people

01:11:41.618 --> 01:11:45.138
who braid hair do not have to have a license to do that.

01:11:45.138 --> 01:11:50.938
Because you can't go to school to learn it, and it's not taught in any beauty school.

01:11:51.078 --> 01:11:54.618
So why make sure that these people have a license?

01:11:54.938 --> 01:11:58.658
All sorts of misconceptions came out during the hearings.

01:11:58.878 --> 01:12:03.898
But one thing about it is we got the legislation passed and signed by the governor.

01:12:03.898 --> 01:12:08.298
The other thing that passed was a Black Education Act that was here.

01:12:08.398 --> 01:12:13.558
And we were looking at what was happening with respect to Black students.

01:12:13.638 --> 01:12:18.578
We thought that the disciplinary actions were far higher based upon the percentage

01:12:18.578 --> 01:12:21.038
of Black people who were in school that should have been there.

01:12:21.038 --> 01:12:26.258
And so we need to have people to be more cognizant of conversations that you

01:12:26.258 --> 01:12:30.618
need to have with your students to understand what's happening and not always

01:12:30.618 --> 01:12:34.098
determine that disciplinary action is the way that it needs to go.

01:12:34.358 --> 01:12:40.858
So those are two big things that I look at that it was it took work,

01:12:40.898 --> 01:12:44.358
but we got people to understand that there was a cultural differences happening.

01:12:44.734 --> 01:12:49.994
That needed to be addressed. And it was. So it has been, it is a challenge,

01:12:49.994 --> 01:12:54.374
but I like the fact that this is a very diverse state because lots of these

01:12:54.374 --> 01:12:58.554
diverse pieces of legislation will come before the body.

01:12:58.874 --> 01:13:03.954
Yeah. When you talked about the African hair braiding, I remember when we were dealing with that.

01:13:04.454 --> 01:13:11.254
God. And so, you know, I served like 20 years ago. I served from 99 to 2008.

01:13:11.734 --> 01:13:14.534
And so when we were dealing with that you know

01:13:14.534 --> 01:13:18.114
it was the the bureau the board of cosmetology was

01:13:18.114 --> 01:13:21.974
the one saying oh they got to get a license and blah blah is the other it was

01:13:21.974 --> 01:13:25.514
like don't nobody y'all don't even know how to teach it how you gonna license

01:13:25.514 --> 01:13:29.794
somebody it took about three years for us to get that through but we we got

01:13:29.794 --> 01:13:33.554
it through so you know when i saw that you y'all were doing i said they still

01:13:33.554 --> 01:13:35.594
dealing with that in 2025 okay all right,

01:13:36.497 --> 01:13:39.757
It is what it is. But that's cool that y'all did that.

01:13:40.677 --> 01:13:47.057
All right. So let's talk about some of the work that you've been doing.

01:13:47.757 --> 01:13:52.537
So New Mexico just became the first U.S. state to offer free child care to all

01:13:52.537 --> 01:13:55.157
residents, regardless of income, through state vouchers.

01:13:55.457 --> 01:13:58.577
Now, this seems like it's got your fingerprints all over it,

01:13:58.717 --> 01:14:03.017
but explain how this will work. And do you think this would be a model for other states?

01:14:03.577 --> 01:14:08.577
It is going to be a model for other states. We are in, I guess,

01:14:08.717 --> 01:14:10.317
a formation stage right now.

01:14:10.457 --> 01:14:15.957
The way the provisions are set up, anybody, regardless of their income,

01:14:16.177 --> 01:14:22.317
can apply for this assistance so that you don't have to pay for any child care at all.

01:14:22.317 --> 01:14:27.797
And this is really important in a state that is about 45% of the population

01:14:27.797 --> 01:14:32.717
is comprised of people who are on Medicaid, which is low-income health insurance.

01:14:33.157 --> 01:14:39.177
So I think the biggest concern right now is why are we putting people or allowing

01:14:39.177 --> 01:14:43.857
people who can actually pay for child care also be a beneficiary of this?

01:14:43.997 --> 01:14:47.017
Maybe there was something else that could be done with that part of the money.

01:14:47.037 --> 01:14:50.317
But we'll see because it's something brand new, something that we're trying.

01:14:51.137 --> 01:14:56.737
And I think it will be a step in the right direction for other states to follow.

01:14:56.917 --> 01:15:01.257
But we are sort of like the pilot program, to put it in another way,

01:15:01.377 --> 01:15:03.037
to see how this will work out.

01:15:03.157 --> 01:15:07.257
I'm excited that we're the first ones to take this step because New Mexico is

01:15:07.257 --> 01:15:10.637
often last in everything in terms of statistics and data.

01:15:10.857 --> 01:15:13.637
But on this instance, we are coming out first.

01:15:14.504 --> 01:15:19.684
So I know that Mexico, like you said, is, you know, one of the states,

01:15:19.904 --> 01:15:24.644
it has a unique distinction is that it actually gets more money than the federal

01:15:24.644 --> 01:15:27.504
government than they actually pay in to taxes.

01:15:27.924 --> 01:15:32.704
So that would indicate that the state is kind of struggling economically.

01:15:33.004 --> 01:15:38.124
But a good percentage of the people in that state work for a living.

01:15:38.124 --> 01:15:45.464
And so was it was it kind of an outcry from the community to do that?

01:15:45.584 --> 01:15:50.984
Or did you and some other legislators just look at it and say, this makes sense?

01:15:51.184 --> 01:15:56.704
How did how did how did y'all decide we're going to do it first here in New Mexico?

01:15:57.724 --> 01:16:01.424
So one of the things that was happening, we have an organization,

01:16:01.424 --> 01:16:07.084
a governmental entity called CYFD, which is the Child Youth Family Division

01:16:07.084 --> 01:16:09.744
of our governmental entity here.

01:16:09.924 --> 01:16:15.744
And so there have been a lot of instances where people, where children had maybe

01:16:15.744 --> 01:16:19.224
died or been in a situation where they should not have been.

01:16:19.224 --> 01:16:26.584
And so this was a step to make sure that all children, no matter where or what

01:16:26.584 --> 01:16:31.604
their home situation was, would have access to universal child care.

01:16:31.804 --> 01:16:36.124
And in that universal child care, these are also supposed to be the first steps

01:16:36.124 --> 01:16:41.464
to help make sure that we're raising a reading level, for example, of our children.

01:16:41.464 --> 01:16:45.884
So by the third grade, they would all be reading at 100 percent of grade level.

01:16:45.884 --> 01:16:51.224
So this is a bigger, broader step of making sure that our children are ready

01:16:51.224 --> 01:16:54.924
to move forward and taking their communities to another level.

01:16:54.924 --> 01:16:56.544
So we're starting early.

01:16:56.724 --> 01:17:00.324
And it didn't, like I said, it didn't matter what your cultural background or

01:17:00.324 --> 01:17:03.804
what your zip code was or how much money your family had.

01:17:03.844 --> 01:17:08.984
We were bringing these, giving all these children the same opportunity to step

01:17:08.984 --> 01:17:11.264
at the same time to improve their lives.

01:17:11.564 --> 01:17:15.984
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's cool. I hope that it works out. And I do hope that

01:17:15.984 --> 01:17:20.704
the other 49 states, including the District of Columbia, jump in on that.

01:17:21.564 --> 01:17:25.904
You have been described as an advocate for justice, equality and improving access

01:17:25.904 --> 01:17:28.624
to behavioral health and maternal health care.

01:17:28.884 --> 01:17:33.284
Why did you zero in on those particular issues to make an impact in your state?

01:17:34.517 --> 01:17:40.617
So a couple of things that I'd like to share with you, and I think that my internet

01:17:40.617 --> 01:17:44.177
connection may be a little stable and I'm unstable. I hope I'm not freezing.

01:17:44.797 --> 01:17:49.877
One of the things that when I first came into the House of Representatives,

01:17:50.337 --> 01:17:54.617
there was a young boy by the name of Benny Hargrove who was killed on the grounds

01:17:54.617 --> 01:17:59.017
of his elementary school during a recess.

01:17:59.017 --> 01:18:03.237
And that school happened to be not very far from my law center.

01:18:03.517 --> 01:18:08.937
And what I learned later is that this little boy named Benny Hargrove wanted

01:18:08.937 --> 01:18:12.517
to try to be a Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

01:18:12.817 --> 01:18:17.517
Between two other boys who were having a difficult time getting along at school.

01:18:17.857 --> 01:18:24.377
Little did he know that one of the boys who was supposed to meet together at

01:18:24.377 --> 01:18:30.537
lunchtime brought his father's gun to school. And he shot and killed Benny Right

01:18:30.537 --> 01:18:32.397
there on the playground In front of lots of kids.

01:18:33.095 --> 01:18:37.155
So in terms of justice for our children, one of the things I wanted to make

01:18:37.155 --> 01:18:41.795
sure that happened is that people who can purchase a firearm,

01:18:42.055 --> 01:18:47.395
that you keep it stored away, away from a child or somebody who should not have access to it.

01:18:47.575 --> 01:18:52.355
So I wasn't saying that you couldn't have a gun or nor was I trying to keep

01:18:52.355 --> 01:18:53.255
people from having them.

01:18:53.375 --> 01:18:56.055
But I said, if you do, you store it safely.

01:18:56.275 --> 01:19:01.195
So we got that piece of gun storage safety legislation passed.

01:19:01.195 --> 01:19:07.175
And that was a huge issue because we live in a state, we're very rural around

01:19:07.175 --> 01:19:09.195
here. There are lots of guns.

01:19:09.395 --> 01:19:15.915
But one of the things that the law says right now is that anyone under 18 cannot purchase a firearm.

01:19:16.195 --> 01:19:20.635
And this little boy had access to it. So we've been working and pushing and

01:19:20.635 --> 01:19:23.395
trying to make sure that that is in place.

01:19:23.655 --> 01:19:27.675
But more importantly, we were also concerned about the children who saw this

01:19:27.675 --> 01:19:31.075
little boy die on the grounds of his elementary school.

01:19:31.195 --> 01:19:34.395
And so we looked at mental health rooms and.

01:19:35.201 --> 01:19:38.641
What would happen to our children who see incidents like that?

01:19:38.741 --> 01:19:42.601
Or what happened to in COVID when they're confined to only themselves and they

01:19:42.601 --> 01:19:46.181
don't really have their friends around them all the time to play with?

01:19:46.401 --> 01:19:49.561
And we found that this was a big issue across the board.

01:19:49.561 --> 01:19:56.621
And so I began to advocate for wellness rooms in every single school in New Mexico.

01:19:56.621 --> 01:20:05.241
Thus far been able to get about two and three quarters million dollars for these mental wellness rooms.

01:20:05.381 --> 01:20:09.141
That's not enough to supply every single school in New Mexico,

01:20:09.141 --> 01:20:11.741
but it's a start. And I continue to look at that.

01:20:11.961 --> 01:20:18.581
And so in terms of justice and safety, that is something that I have absolutely been fighting for.

01:20:18.801 --> 01:20:22.401
I was the one helping to take the lead on fair pay for women.

01:20:22.401 --> 01:20:26.621
And in New Mexico, that's a huge issue. We got that law passed also.

01:20:26.821 --> 01:20:33.581
And this is one of the few states where abortion care is absolutely available

01:20:33.581 --> 01:20:36.441
for women when they need it and when they want it.

01:20:36.541 --> 01:20:40.381
And lots of women from other states often come to New Mexico because you can

01:20:40.381 --> 01:20:45.181
get that care here. And then there's one other thing that I really like about

01:20:45.181 --> 01:20:50.001
what we are doing here is that we also take care and I fight for those individuals

01:20:50.001 --> 01:20:51.301
in our state that are aging.

01:20:51.581 --> 01:20:54.881
And we have an aging and long-term services division.

01:20:55.201 --> 01:21:00.401
And it's important that people know that if you take care of a relative who

01:21:00.401 --> 01:21:04.241
has Alzheimer's, for example, or dementia, and they can't really take care of themselves anymore.

01:21:04.675 --> 01:21:08.395
You can get paid for taking care of them, up to $1,400 a month.

01:21:08.575 --> 01:21:16.275
But also we want to let people know that if you are in a family where Alzheimer's could be prevalent.

01:21:16.875 --> 01:21:21.015
That there are tests that can be taken, and a lot of people don't know that,

01:21:21.215 --> 01:21:24.095
to determine if you have the amyloids in your body that are going to give you

01:21:24.095 --> 01:21:27.855
the propensity to have that later in life, so that you can prepare yourself.

01:21:28.035 --> 01:21:31.775
Sometimes you can change the food that you're going to eat, the way you're exercising,

01:21:31.775 --> 01:21:36.575
that could absolutely prolong your life in a good way.

01:21:36.735 --> 01:21:41.755
So those are just some of the things that I have been absolutely advocating

01:21:41.755 --> 01:21:46.655
for and for families, along with everything else that we've talked about today.

01:21:46.875 --> 01:21:52.635
So which legislation gave you the most satisfaction that you sponsored?

01:21:52.975 --> 01:21:58.155
The legislation with the most satisfaction was getting that Gun Safety Act passed.

01:21:58.155 --> 01:22:03.855
So Benny Hartgrove had younger kids, younger siblings, and it was really hard

01:22:03.855 --> 01:22:05.895
on that family when Benny died.

01:22:06.235 --> 01:22:09.715
And so Benny ended up, he had been living with his grandmother.

01:22:10.315 --> 01:22:13.515
So that family was in such, I

01:22:13.515 --> 01:22:18.795
guess, a state after he was killed that we needed to do something for him.

01:22:18.915 --> 01:22:23.275
And so the other thing that we did is to name a park after Benny Hargrove,

01:22:23.455 --> 01:22:26.815
which is located very close to the school where he was killed.

01:22:26.815 --> 01:22:30.655
And so, I've been making sure that I give money to Parks and Recreation Department

01:22:30.655 --> 01:22:33.395
to make that a very viable playground.

01:22:33.675 --> 01:22:37.795
And not only that, it was important to me to have something called a venture

01:22:37.795 --> 01:22:39.175
reflection in that park.

01:22:39.676 --> 01:22:43.396
So that if people are going to go do something, that you sit on that bench before

01:22:43.396 --> 01:22:48.196
you do it, particularly if it is going to cause the harm to yourself or to others,

01:22:48.396 --> 01:22:51.656
that you think carefully about what you're doing before you go in that direction.

01:22:52.076 --> 01:22:55.896
So I'm really happy that we got that park renamed after him.

01:22:55.956 --> 01:22:58.356
And that was not easy, Erik, I want you to know.

01:22:58.696 --> 01:23:03.396
And that was the most rewarding thing because it was good for the family.

01:23:03.656 --> 01:23:07.376
And that was most important. And for his grandmother, she said,

01:23:07.496 --> 01:23:10.096
please don't put the word memorial on that park anywhere.

01:23:10.576 --> 01:23:15.696
Benny was a young, viable elementary school student, and I want him to be remembered that way.

01:23:15.816 --> 01:23:21.376
So it's called the Benny Hargrove Park, and there is no word memorial in it anywhere. That's awesome.

01:23:21.876 --> 01:23:27.796
All right. So my last question, because I look at you and others that are serving

01:23:27.796 --> 01:23:33.376
now as role models for me, Because when I served.

01:23:34.976 --> 01:23:38.496
You know, there was political tension, but it wasn't anything like this.

01:23:39.036 --> 01:23:44.716
And, you know, so I think it's commendable that you and others are trying to

01:23:44.716 --> 01:23:47.196
do the right thing in this climate.

01:23:48.570 --> 01:23:54.450
What motivates you to keep pressing forward, even though this climate is very volatile?

01:23:55.250 --> 01:24:00.050
One of the things that I recognize in the work that I'm doing is that it doesn't

01:24:00.050 --> 01:24:02.810
matter whether you are a Democrat or a Republican.

01:24:03.330 --> 01:24:08.650
We all have to eat. We all need a place to live. We all need to have transportation.

01:24:08.990 --> 01:24:12.910
And so I think of it in that way. And that's what motivates me.

01:24:13.070 --> 01:24:15.870
I'm not doing something just because I'm a member of one party.

01:24:16.030 --> 01:24:19.210
I'm doing it because we, as people need to grow together.

01:24:19.610 --> 01:24:23.710
And I say, if we work together, we can accomplish many things together.

01:24:23.890 --> 01:24:25.390
And let me just give you one incident.

01:24:25.690 --> 01:24:28.990
So right now, there's an organization called Women in Government,

01:24:29.270 --> 01:24:30.770
and there are supposed to be

01:24:30.770 --> 01:24:35.010
two Republicans and two Democrats from every state to be a part of this.

01:24:35.210 --> 01:24:39.090
Well, one of the things that I worked for when I was tapped to be a part of

01:24:39.090 --> 01:24:42.610
Women in Government is to make sure that New Mexico had that, and we do.

01:24:42.930 --> 01:24:47.270
We now have two representatives from the Republican Party, two from the Democratic Party.

01:24:47.510 --> 01:24:53.790
And no matter how crazy things seem to appear, we tend to work together.

01:24:53.790 --> 01:24:57.810
And I think that we try to get the people around us to work together also,

01:24:57.810 --> 01:25:03.790
because like I said, when we lift up one person, we really lift up a whole community.

01:25:04.350 --> 01:25:10.070
Yeah. Well, that's cool that you insisted on that for, you know, representation.

01:25:10.790 --> 01:25:12.450
And like I said, you know.

01:25:13.452 --> 01:25:17.072
One of the things I used to tell people, you know, they say,

01:25:17.252 --> 01:25:18.972
yeah, look like I'll be fighting all the time.

01:25:19.112 --> 01:25:21.452
I said, no, the fights are what makes the news.

01:25:22.012 --> 01:25:25.992
Not 8% of the time we actually get along and agree on stuff.

01:25:26.172 --> 01:25:30.392
You don't you don't hear about that until, you know, the law goes into effect.

01:25:31.172 --> 01:25:35.792
But the only time you'll see us fighting is like, you know, that's that's what

01:25:35.792 --> 01:25:38.312
gets on the news. And that's that's a very small percentage.

01:25:38.912 --> 01:25:45.332
So, you know, I'm glad that you're involved with a group that's pushing for

01:25:45.332 --> 01:25:47.172
more cooperation and all that.

01:25:47.952 --> 01:25:52.452
So, Representative Pamelya Herndon, I just want to thank you for doing this.

01:25:52.592 --> 01:25:58.392
If people want to find out more about New Mexico, find out more about you and

01:25:58.392 --> 01:26:00.512
all that, how can they reach out to you?

01:26:01.318 --> 01:26:04.458
So there are a couple of things they can do. They can look on the New Mexico

01:26:04.458 --> 01:26:10.298
legislative website, and you can find me and telephone number and email on how to reach me.

01:26:10.498 --> 01:26:18.818
The legislative website is www.nmlegis.gov.

01:26:19.198 --> 01:26:26.298
You can also go to my nonprofit law center and find me, which is kwhlawcenter.org.

01:26:27.158 --> 01:26:31.758
That nonprofit work really goes a long way in trying to help individuals,

01:26:31.998 --> 01:26:37.298
particularly when they don't have access to an attorney. We work to make sure that they do have one.

01:26:37.478 --> 01:26:42.118
So those are two ways to find me. And I guarantee there's a telephone number there.

01:26:42.318 --> 01:26:47.778
My staff will always give me a message and I will always return a phone call or answer an email.

01:26:48.298 --> 01:26:53.318
Well, Representative Herndon, again, it's been an honor to talk to you and a pleasure.

01:26:54.198 --> 01:26:58.018
And one of the rules I have is that once you've been a guest,

01:26:58.258 --> 01:27:00.458
you have an open invitation to come back.

01:27:00.578 --> 01:27:02.778
So you don't even have to wait for me to ask you to come.

01:27:02.918 --> 01:27:06.938
You can just say, Erik, I need to talk to you about something and we'll get you on.

01:27:07.098 --> 01:27:09.878
So, again, I greatly appreciate this opportunity.

01:27:10.978 --> 01:27:14.718
Thank you. It's been my honor and my pleasure also. So keep up the good work

01:27:14.718 --> 01:27:18.798
that you're doing. And I am so happy to see that you're doing this podcast. Thank you, ma'am.

01:27:19.158 --> 01:27:23.398
All right, guys, and we're going to catch you all on the other side. Thank you.

01:27:33.528 --> 01:27:41.008
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Michael Bedenbaugh and Representative

01:27:41.008 --> 01:27:43.628
Pamelya Herndon for coming on the show.

01:27:44.168 --> 01:27:47.188
As you can tell, my conversation with Representative Herndon,

01:27:47.428 --> 01:27:54.728
I was having a lot of flashbacks, a lot of good memories about serving the people.

01:27:55.588 --> 01:28:01.548
And I could relate to her, you know, just so much about, you know,

01:28:01.968 --> 01:28:05.788
motivation to serve and all that kind of stuff.

01:28:05.788 --> 01:28:12.708
And it sounds very similar backgrounds, as you could tell, as far as experience

01:28:12.708 --> 01:28:18.068
and how we ended up in our respective positions.

01:28:18.068 --> 01:28:21.668
And then Michael, very smart gentleman.

01:28:22.208 --> 01:28:30.388
And, you know, since I've spent now the overwhelming majority of my life in the South,

01:28:30.648 --> 01:28:38.608
to hear a white guy from the South talking about politics in an intelligent way is always cool.

01:28:38.608 --> 01:28:41.948
So it doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to agree on everything,

01:28:41.968 --> 01:28:44.968
but it's just all about the conversation.

01:28:45.428 --> 01:28:50.208
And as he stated, this is something that he's been working on for a decade.

01:28:51.028 --> 01:28:55.408
And he's one of those people to try to put his money where his mouth is because

01:28:55.408 --> 01:28:59.428
he actually ran for Congress with those ideas.

01:29:00.308 --> 01:29:06.028
I mean, he ran as independent, but he ran. And so I have to commend him for

01:29:06.028 --> 01:29:11.488
standing up for his principles enough where he was willing to put his name on a ballot. Right?

01:29:12.634 --> 01:29:16.634
But these are the kind of discussions that Reviving Our Republic, please get in.

01:29:18.194 --> 01:29:24.354
I'm a sucker for audible. I like listening, especially when the author is the

01:29:24.354 --> 01:29:26.194
one doing the narration.

01:29:27.194 --> 01:29:32.194
And so Michael's book, Reviving Our Republic, he's doing the narration for it.

01:29:32.374 --> 01:29:38.494
So, you know, if you wrote the book, you know where to put the emphasis on what

01:29:38.494 --> 01:29:42.074
sentence, what paragraph, what word to convey the message.

01:29:42.634 --> 01:29:45.734
So please go out and get that book.

01:29:46.334 --> 01:29:51.014
And, you know, he's got some pretty cool ideas, just like a lot of other people

01:29:51.014 --> 01:29:52.414
that I've had on that have.

01:29:53.814 --> 01:29:58.154
Like more recently, John Bonifaz with Free Speech for People,

01:29:58.594 --> 01:30:04.474
he's kind of like like along those lines as far as thinking about things and

01:30:04.474 --> 01:30:09.314
putting pen to paper and putting out there for people to look at and hopefully

01:30:09.314 --> 01:30:10.514
have discussions about.

01:30:10.514 --> 01:30:15.674
And who knows, you know, any one of those folks that I've had on,

01:30:15.934 --> 01:30:17.454
their ideas come to fruition.

01:30:17.934 --> 01:30:19.954
It is what it is, you know.

01:30:20.874 --> 01:30:26.934
That's what this democracy, this democratic republic, this constitutional republic,

01:30:27.374 --> 01:30:32.234
however you want to label it, that's what this experiment is supposed to be about, right?

01:30:32.234 --> 01:30:38.274
That we discuss things, that we try to make things better and more attainable for everybody,

01:30:38.454 --> 01:30:45.094
and to elect people like Representative Herndon, who actually gives a damn about

01:30:45.094 --> 01:30:49.314
the people that she represents and tries to do what needs to be done, right?

01:30:50.014 --> 01:30:52.814
It's very fascinating to be...

01:30:53.972 --> 01:30:58.212
You know, that district that she represents went from being a solid Republican

01:30:58.212 --> 01:31:00.372
district to now having a black representative.

01:31:01.012 --> 01:31:03.912
I just want y'all to think about that for a moment.

01:31:05.632 --> 01:31:14.552
You know, in a span of a decade, it went from a red district to being now one

01:31:14.552 --> 01:31:16.192
representative by an African-American.

01:31:17.592 --> 01:31:22.492
That's the epitome of what this nation is supposed to be about.

01:31:22.852 --> 01:31:27.092
Right. it because it obviously was not the black vote they got her over,

01:31:27.372 --> 01:31:35.632
you know, and she has been effective and is well-respected in the New Mexico

01:31:35.632 --> 01:31:37.092
legislature, very much so.

01:31:37.492 --> 01:31:42.092
So I'm just really honored that those two individuals decided to come on.

01:31:43.032 --> 01:31:47.732
I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about, as we close out,

01:31:48.852 --> 01:31:53.172
you know, now that the smoke is cleared and the government is back functioning.

01:31:54.072 --> 01:32:00.492
And I use the air quotes when I say functioning, right? But the shutdown is over.

01:32:01.292 --> 01:32:05.952
And so a lot of people, excuse me, on the Democratic side were very,

01:32:06.072 --> 01:32:10.852
very upset about the eight senators who voted to.

01:32:12.319 --> 01:32:16.379
Basically end the shutdown. And, you know, and,

01:32:16.659 --> 01:32:23.439
you know, now they're asking for Chuck Schumer's head because either he gave

01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:28.739
permission or he, you know, had a crack, whatever they're saying it is.

01:32:29.679 --> 01:32:34.579
You know, they're blaming him for those eight senators voting with the Republicans.

01:32:35.979 --> 01:32:40.499
And so I'm not, the only one I'm really, really harsh about is Fetterman,

01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:48.159
the senator from Pennsylvania, because he was voting against the shutdown from day one.

01:32:48.319 --> 01:32:53.119
Now, from a principal standpoint, he was consistent. He didn't want the government

01:32:53.119 --> 01:32:57.819
to shut down, and he voted accordingly. So he was one of the Democrats that

01:32:57.819 --> 01:33:01.299
was always voting with the Republicans on that deal from the jump.

01:33:01.899 --> 01:33:06.159
Three of the senators, because Angus King is not the Democratic,

01:33:06.379 --> 01:33:11.559
he's independent, just like Bernie Sanders, but Sanders and King vote with the Democrats.

01:33:11.779 --> 01:33:15.859
When they say caucus with, that's what they mean. They vote with the Democratic agenda.

01:33:17.119 --> 01:33:19.059
And, you know, but King and.

01:33:21.501 --> 01:33:27.821
The two, Shan and I think Cain, I think they were actually the three senators

01:33:27.821 --> 01:33:34.841
that were negotiating with the Republicans to try to work out something where the subsidies,

01:33:35.401 --> 01:33:39.361
the Obamacare subsidies would not run out at the end of the year.

01:33:39.821 --> 01:33:48.181
And I just think about when I was in public office, we had a big deal in Mississippi

01:33:48.181 --> 01:33:49.961
when we were dealing with the Ayers case.

01:33:50.821 --> 01:33:58.121
The heirs case was a lawsuit that was brought by a citizen on behalf of his

01:33:58.121 --> 01:34:03.701
son at the time, because his son was attending a school in Mississippi.

01:34:04.121 --> 01:34:11.321
And he was making the case that Mississippi higher education was not living

01:34:11.321 --> 01:34:14.721
up to the standard that was set in Brown versus the Board of Education.

01:34:16.021 --> 01:34:23.341
And that the historically black colleges were being underfunded and kind of

01:34:23.341 --> 01:34:28.141
being treated like stepchildren compared to Ole Miss, Mississippi State, or even USM, right?

01:34:28.741 --> 01:34:36.081
And so that case went for almost three decades before the settlement happened.

01:34:36.541 --> 01:34:40.821
So one of the plaintiffs that had joined on with Mr.

01:34:40.921 --> 01:34:47.921
Ayers was Benny Thompson, who is, many of you know him as the chair of the January

01:34:47.921 --> 01:34:52.941
6th committee, and he's been a political figure for a long time.

01:34:53.141 --> 01:34:58.521
He was a student at the time he joined on the case. I think he was doing his

01:34:58.521 --> 01:35:01.221
grad studies at Jackson State.

01:35:01.861 --> 01:35:07.081
And so he basically was the last man standing after 30 years.

01:35:08.647 --> 01:35:11.567
As far as a plaintiff in that case.

01:35:11.887 --> 01:35:15.107
And so with his position, being a U.S.

01:35:15.247 --> 01:35:22.427
Congressman, he got with the attorney general and the head of IHL in Mississippi

01:35:22.427 --> 01:35:28.767
at that time and worked out a settlement. And it was like a billion-dollar settlement.

01:35:30.147 --> 01:35:33.647
And the one thing that kind of disturbed us as members,

01:35:33.787 --> 01:35:36.667
especially the black members of the legislature, the black caucus,

01:35:36.667 --> 01:35:42.407
was there was a picture after they announced that a settlement had been reached

01:35:42.407 --> 01:35:50.367
with the attorney general and the IHL guy literally high-fiving in the Capitol building.

01:35:50.507 --> 01:35:54.487
And that was the picture right above the headline.

01:35:55.666 --> 01:36:01.486
And so in our mindset, it's like if they're high-fiving and they just gave up

01:36:01.486 --> 01:36:04.066
a billion dollars, we probably could have got some more.

01:36:04.346 --> 01:36:08.646
That was kind of our mindset, right? It's like, why would we just settle for

01:36:08.646 --> 01:36:11.486
a billion? They're happy with a billion. You know what I'm saying?

01:36:12.606 --> 01:36:18.026
So the congressman agreed to meet with us. And, you know, we kind of had this

01:36:18.026 --> 01:36:20.486
mindset, man, you shouldn't have done this and da-da-da-da.

01:36:20.486 --> 01:36:25.706
So he basically explained what he was, you know, where his mindset was and,

01:36:25.726 --> 01:36:29.546
you know, what we were getting out of the deal and this, that and the other.

01:36:29.666 --> 01:36:32.186
And we were kind of like, well, you know, we don't trust these white folks.

01:36:32.366 --> 01:36:34.166
And, you know, we were just having a conversation.

01:36:34.946 --> 01:36:42.226
And so this whole thing with the shutdown reminded me of that moment where those

01:36:42.226 --> 01:36:44.126
of us who attended black colleges,

01:36:44.286 --> 01:36:48.706
especially black colleges in Mississippi, we were kind of like the activists

01:36:48.706 --> 01:36:52.106
in the Democratic Party are now. We were not happy.

01:36:52.586 --> 01:36:57.526
We didn't think that the settlement went far enough. We felt like we could have

01:36:57.526 --> 01:36:59.606
held out or demanded more.

01:36:59.766 --> 01:37:05.086
I mean, our attitude was we waited 27 years, could have kept fighting.

01:37:06.606 --> 01:37:11.226
But, you know, at some point, we had to get to an agreement.

01:37:11.906 --> 01:37:16.886
27 years of litigation and negotiation had to come to an end at some point.

01:37:17.726 --> 01:37:21.566
And, you know, the congressman just basically said this was the best deal we could get.

01:37:22.506 --> 01:37:28.906
And so I'm sure that the senators that were assigned to negotiate with the Republicans

01:37:28.906 --> 01:37:33.726
probably reported to Chuck Schumer and said, this is the best we can do.

01:37:34.166 --> 01:37:39.886
We have to take their word for it. I know their word isn't worth much in this

01:37:39.886 --> 01:37:41.786
building. That's where we are.

01:37:42.919 --> 01:37:48.259
And so, you know, the nickname for the eight senators now is called the safe

01:37:48.259 --> 01:37:51.959
eight because two of them are not running for reelection.

01:37:52.899 --> 01:37:57.879
And the other six, well, let's take Fetterman out of the equation.

01:37:58.459 --> 01:38:04.359
The other five are not up for election either until 28 or 30.

01:38:04.359 --> 01:38:13.419
So they won't get hit with this next year in 2026 and that midterm election cycle.

01:38:14.039 --> 01:38:17.459
So that's how now they've got the nickname the Safe Eight. Now,

01:38:18.239 --> 01:38:20.519
Fetterman is not going to be safe regardless of when he runs.

01:38:20.799 --> 01:38:26.239
I think this is it for him. I think the Democratic Party in Pennsylvania are

01:38:26.239 --> 01:38:29.639
trying to narrow down who they're going to run against them.

01:38:30.259 --> 01:38:37.959
And it's probably best for him as well as the people in Pennsylvania for him not to be in anymore.

01:38:38.159 --> 01:38:42.339
He just had, as I'm recording this, he just had another health episode.

01:38:42.339 --> 01:38:45.359
He had a stroke when he was running for the office.

01:38:46.719 --> 01:38:52.659
So, you know, it might be best for him just to let that go.

01:38:54.519 --> 01:38:59.639
From a personal standpoint, from a political standpoint, I mean,

01:39:00.923 --> 01:39:07.663
He can either, he's more valuable as an independent or as a Republican based

01:39:07.663 --> 01:39:09.783
on the way he's been voting on certain things.

01:39:10.083 --> 01:39:17.243
Now, he's been better than Sinema, I guess, as far as voting along with the Democrats.

01:39:17.463 --> 01:39:22.563
But, you know, it's like these key moments.

01:39:23.383 --> 01:39:29.803
He tends to not be on the Democrat side. So, so I'm not counting him in that,

01:39:29.903 --> 01:39:34.043
but he is part of the nickname, the safe eight, since he was one of the eight

01:39:34.043 --> 01:39:36.643
that voted to end the shutdown.

01:39:37.443 --> 01:39:43.223
So I'm not really as hard on them as everybody else.

01:39:43.463 --> 01:39:47.363
I would have been one of the senators holding out.

01:39:47.803 --> 01:39:51.063
And I probably wouldn't have been one of the senators sent to negotiate.

01:39:52.243 --> 01:39:56.683
You know, I think there were some other senators that wanted to do it,

01:39:57.023 --> 01:40:02.463
that wanted because, you know, all of them were getting calls from their constituents.

01:40:03.303 --> 01:40:10.583
The president of the of one of the unions, I think AFGE, was really saying,

01:40:10.723 --> 01:40:13.163
hey, my people need to get some checks.

01:40:13.683 --> 01:40:19.123
We need to end the shutdown. You know, and at least that's what Senator Durbin

01:40:19.123 --> 01:40:24.463
said was his main influence was the president AFGE, who's a brother, by the way.

01:40:24.823 --> 01:40:28.503
And he got on national TV and said, yeah, they needed to end the shutdown yesterday.

01:40:28.983 --> 01:40:35.923
So, you know, he said, that's the position of my people. And he's got to represent his union. Right.

01:40:36.683 --> 01:40:39.303
So, you know, I get where he's coming from.

01:40:40.434 --> 01:40:47.294
But, yeah, it was, you know, a lot of the senators were feeling the pain of

01:40:47.294 --> 01:40:51.314
their constituents, especially once the president decided, yeah,

01:40:51.394 --> 01:40:52.734
we're going to cut off the SNAP money.

01:40:53.354 --> 01:40:56.974
You know, he's willing to go to the Supreme Court. And that's the other thing, too.

01:40:56.974 --> 01:41:04.954
So now there's some people that are jumping on Justice Jackson for putting a

01:41:04.954 --> 01:41:10.374
stay on on distributing the benefits.

01:41:11.134 --> 01:41:16.634
So, you know, Justice Jackson was looking at it strictly from a judicial review

01:41:16.634 --> 01:41:22.634
standpoint, said the Court of Appeals is about to make a decision on this.

01:41:22.974 --> 01:41:25.994
Don't need to jump the shark with them.

01:41:27.414 --> 01:41:30.994
And probably knowing that she was going to vote to say give him the money.

01:41:31.674 --> 01:41:37.654
She wanted to be fair, and she just accepted, you know, and just said let's

01:41:37.654 --> 01:41:40.734
put a stay on it until the Court of Appeals makes the decision.

01:41:42.354 --> 01:41:46.414
So I definitely don't blame her for that at all.

01:41:46.414 --> 01:41:49.854
She was doing the judicially prudent thing to do,

01:41:49.854 --> 01:41:58.154
Because if she had gone ahead and made the ruling without the Court of Appeals

01:41:58.154 --> 01:42:02.614
even making the decision, and then the Court of Appeals came back and said, well,

01:42:03.794 --> 01:42:07.094
yeah, that's not the way we were going with that.

01:42:08.485 --> 01:42:11.505
That would have been more chaotic than normal.

01:42:11.745 --> 01:42:18.125
So, you know, I know it's frustrating at times, but that's why I always say

01:42:18.125 --> 01:42:22.605
that there's a difference between those of us who are activists and those of us who are elected.

01:42:23.945 --> 01:42:30.625
Because elected officials have rules and have certain boundaries.

01:42:31.165 --> 01:42:35.325
And one of those boundaries is we have to look out for the welfare of our constituents.

01:42:36.125 --> 01:42:42.285
And no matter how strident a position we have, we don't want to be responsible

01:42:42.285 --> 01:42:48.345
for any injury to happen to our folks while we're trying to make a point or

01:42:48.345 --> 01:42:50.685
we're trying to take a stand, right?

01:42:52.085 --> 01:42:55.485
Because, you know, we're not commanders in a war.

01:42:56.265 --> 01:43:02.445
We're, you know, we're elected officials. So we have to, even if we don't agree

01:43:02.445 --> 01:43:07.865
with some of our colleagues doing what they do, we have a forum to interact with them.

01:43:08.405 --> 01:43:14.585
But we have to look at not only short term, but long term.

01:43:14.585 --> 01:43:19.845
And if we're at a point where the person we're negotiating with doesn't care

01:43:19.845 --> 01:43:22.965
if people eat, doesn't care if people get paid,

01:43:23.825 --> 01:43:30.625
doesn't care if air travel is not 100% safe or close to, you know,

01:43:30.745 --> 01:43:31.785
you've got to weigh that in.

01:43:32.325 --> 01:43:36.665
If you've got somebody that you want to negotiate with and they're not coming to the table.

01:43:37.977 --> 01:43:46.037
You know, it is what it is. And, you know, it just, but it better prepares you for the next showdown.

01:43:46.497 --> 01:43:50.957
Because if you know that the person you're dealing with has no empathy,

01:43:51.337 --> 01:43:56.897
you go into that negotiation understanding that and knowing that a strategy

01:43:56.897 --> 01:43:59.737
that deals with empathy would not work. Right?

01:44:00.977 --> 01:44:10.097
So the only thing that would really impact our president or his people is you've

01:44:10.097 --> 01:44:11.457
got to cut off something he values.

01:44:12.217 --> 01:44:17.557
So the next time we get into a situation, you know, when I say we,

01:44:17.697 --> 01:44:20.257
I'm talking about the senators and stuff, the Democrats.

01:44:21.097 --> 01:44:24.937
You just got to hit him where it would hurt him. You got to cut off his money.

01:44:25.777 --> 01:44:30.797
Cut off his money, you know, then. he'll come to the table.

01:44:31.517 --> 01:44:35.817
If you talk about, well, you know, folks in my district are going to starve, he doesn't care.

01:44:36.777 --> 01:44:40.197
Folks in my district are going to be out of a job or they're going to be working

01:44:40.197 --> 01:44:41.497
without money, doesn't care.

01:44:42.257 --> 01:44:46.397
But if you cut his money off, I don't know if it's dealing with legislation,

01:44:46.557 --> 01:44:52.137
dealing with crypto or whatever you can do, you know, cut them off.

01:44:52.257 --> 01:44:54.297
Now, the Republicans kind of.

01:44:55.612 --> 01:45:00.552
Showed a little rebellion to him when he started going on the rant about,

01:45:01.292 --> 01:45:04.072
well, you got to use the nuclear option. You got to end the filibuster.

01:45:04.712 --> 01:45:09.152
And they basically said no, because they're looking at 2026.

01:45:09.732 --> 01:45:14.692
And they're like, if the trend is going the way it's going, we're going to be in the minority.

01:45:15.192 --> 01:45:19.372
And if we don't have this tool to try to slow the Democrats down,

01:45:19.872 --> 01:45:22.372
you're going to have a problem, right?

01:45:22.972 --> 01:45:30.632
So I'm sure they convey that to him some kind of way, whether it's verbally or by text or whatever.

01:45:31.132 --> 01:45:35.552
But they sent a message like, okay, Mr. President, we get you.

01:45:36.452 --> 01:45:40.952
So they have the capacity to say no to him.

01:45:41.192 --> 01:45:45.592
They showed that during this shutdown, at least some Republicans.

01:45:45.592 --> 01:45:47.572
They have the capacity to tell him, no, Mr.

01:45:47.632 --> 01:45:53.492
President, it's not a good idea, which, you know, kind of, you had more people

01:45:53.492 --> 01:45:54.932
doing that his first go around.

01:45:55.232 --> 01:45:59.412
And that's why he didn't do as much damage as he is currently doing now,

01:45:59.432 --> 01:46:03.592
because he had people all around him telling him, no, you can't do that.

01:46:04.592 --> 01:46:08.712
So now it's just a select few people. Up until the shutdown,

01:46:08.872 --> 01:46:09.772
we didn't think it was anybody.

01:46:10.432 --> 01:46:15.932
But now we're seeing, you know, this whole about the releasing of the Epstein files.

01:46:16.092 --> 01:46:19.552
We're seeing some Republicans saying, yeah, you probably need to release them.

01:46:20.918 --> 01:46:24.538
If you're telling me, you're telling the whole nation, you ain't got nothing

01:46:24.538 --> 01:46:29.818
to hide, then why are you telling all of us on your side of the aisle not to

01:46:29.818 --> 01:46:31.958
vote to release him? You know?

01:46:33.638 --> 01:46:37.498
So, you know, they tried to, they grabbed one congresswoman,

01:46:37.618 --> 01:46:41.738
I think it was Bober, they took her down to the situation room to talk to her. Really?

01:46:42.498 --> 01:46:44.738
You going to negotiate with her in the situation room?

01:46:46.018 --> 01:46:50.658
You couldn't find another skiff to have the discussion? I mean,

01:46:50.778 --> 01:46:52.998
the White House is basically a skiff if you want it to be.

01:46:54.038 --> 01:46:58.378
Just the old office used to be where they used to have the high-powered discussions.

01:46:58.678 --> 01:47:00.398
The president is talking to you directly.

01:47:01.058 --> 01:47:05.558
He took her to the situation room. Man, that's going to take you down to the

01:47:05.558 --> 01:47:06.918
basement. You know what I'm saying?

01:47:08.258 --> 01:47:14.818
I'm just, you know, that's why we call him the Don, for real. The mob stuff.

01:47:15.018 --> 01:47:19.938
That's mob stuff. I'm going to put you in this room so we can convince you to

01:47:19.938 --> 01:47:21.678
change your ways. You know what I'm saying?

01:47:22.998 --> 01:47:26.078
It's a mess. It's really a mess.

01:47:26.218 --> 01:47:30.618
And like I told Representative Herndon, I commend her and everybody else that's

01:47:30.618 --> 01:47:37.698
elected during this time for serving in this craziness, right? Right.

01:47:38.670 --> 01:47:45.470
Yeah, I'm not as critical of the senators because been there,

01:47:45.590 --> 01:47:53.030
done that, you know, you're not happy, but it's like on to the next fight, right?

01:47:53.510 --> 01:48:00.030
You know, I mean, if the president, if the Republicans renege on their commitment

01:48:00.030 --> 01:48:07.970
to voting on the Obamacare subsidies, they'll pay for it in 26th.

01:48:08.670 --> 01:48:12.570
Because everybody's going to be paying that higher health care premium, right?

01:48:13.230 --> 01:48:18.930
You know, but it would have been worse for the Democrats if we had gone two,

01:48:19.110 --> 01:48:21.850
three months with people not getting food stamps.

01:48:22.830 --> 01:48:30.010
So, you know, I mean, you saw what an incredible burden it was for churches

01:48:30.010 --> 01:48:32.890
and food banks to try to make up the difference.

01:48:33.390 --> 01:48:37.650
And we did see some incredible acts of benevolence.

01:48:39.250 --> 01:48:44.570
And McKenzie Scott may have been called in to rescue folks along with a couple

01:48:44.570 --> 01:48:48.090
of other billionaires if it had protracted longer than it did.

01:48:48.310 --> 01:48:56.330
But the reality is that, you know, if you're in a position where you got a way out,

01:48:57.150 --> 01:49:02.610
do I want my people that I'm fighting for to suffer in the meantime,

01:49:03.150 --> 01:49:04.330
you got to make that call.

01:49:04.730 --> 01:49:09.810
It's no different than the Montgomery bus boycott no different than any other

01:49:09.810 --> 01:49:11.330
protest that's out there.

01:49:11.790 --> 01:49:16.510
You know, if you're going to be committed to a fight, you know,

01:49:16.630 --> 01:49:19.910
the determination is how long can you hold out?

01:49:20.490 --> 01:49:25.850
You know, when the unions go on strike, how much money do they have in the strike

01:49:25.850 --> 01:49:31.270
fund to make sure that the union members are able to take care of their families

01:49:31.270 --> 01:49:34.250
while they're trying to fight for better wages or better health care?

01:49:35.475 --> 01:49:43.055
It's all calculated risk. And, you know, for those who are activists,

01:49:43.055 --> 01:49:44.835
you're not wrong for protesting.

01:49:44.835 --> 01:49:49.655
You're not wrong for expressing your thoughts. You're not wrong for being vocal

01:49:49.655 --> 01:49:52.955
about your disappointment when the fight's over.

01:49:53.575 --> 01:49:56.955
Because you always want more. You know what I'm saying?

01:49:57.735 --> 01:50:06.375
Again, as a sports fan, the Bears or the Bulls score last-minute points.

01:50:07.155 --> 01:50:10.995
Cubs or the White Sox win a game in the ninth inning at the last at-bat.

01:50:11.255 --> 01:50:14.695
Okay, we won. You know what I'm saying?

01:50:15.455 --> 01:50:18.995
Would I have liked to have a comfortable margin every game? Yes.

01:50:19.175 --> 01:50:22.595
But there are some games where you're going to have to fight to the end.

01:50:23.015 --> 01:50:26.675
It's not going to be an ideal situation every time.

01:50:26.955 --> 01:50:39.975
So, you know, I think that the American people have been exposed to the truth about the Republicans,

01:50:39.975 --> 01:50:45.015
and I think they've kind of made up their mind how they feel about it,

01:50:45.075 --> 01:50:49.455
because you saw those elections that just recently happened and the results.

01:50:49.455 --> 01:50:55.715
And I think that's going to carry over in 26, barring something crazy that the

01:50:55.715 --> 01:50:58.475
Democrats do between now and then. Right.

01:50:59.095 --> 01:51:04.035
But as long as the Democrats keep fighting for issues and keep addressing issues

01:51:04.035 --> 01:51:08.595
that people care about, that they can relate to, like Tesla and Ford.

01:51:09.846 --> 01:51:14.426
I don't want to butcher her name, but Tesla, you know, was on CNN and she was

01:51:14.426 --> 01:51:20.006
saying, you know, it's like the Epstein files are fine.

01:51:20.006 --> 01:51:25.446
If you want to expose pedophiles, it's fine. But people in our community are trying to work.

01:51:25.626 --> 01:51:29.566
People in our community are trying to eat. People in our community want safe

01:51:29.566 --> 01:51:36.946
streets, better education, ability to get the house of their dreams. Right.

01:51:38.306 --> 01:51:44.386
So how are you going to handle that? You know, and that's where the Democrats

01:51:44.386 --> 01:51:50.826
need to focus their energy on, to be just as passionate about those issues.

01:51:51.066 --> 01:51:53.246
And as long as the king, that's why Mom Donnie won.

01:51:53.866 --> 01:51:57.086
That's why Spanberger won. That's why Cheryl won.

01:51:57.266 --> 01:52:00.566
Because in their respective elections, in their respective communities,

01:52:00.786 --> 01:52:04.086
they addressed the issues that the people in those communities cared about.

01:52:04.086 --> 01:52:09.666
And they believe, the citizens believe that they were the candidates that were

01:52:09.666 --> 01:52:13.966
going to carry that out if they were elected. And so they voted for them. Right.

01:52:14.306 --> 01:52:16.446
And that's really how this works.

01:52:16.966 --> 01:52:21.966
You've got to vote for the people that you believe are going to make our lives,

01:52:22.086 --> 01:52:26.786
our lives, not just my individual life, our collective lives,

01:52:26.946 --> 01:52:30.526
our community, our state, our nation better. Right.

01:52:31.446 --> 01:52:37.266
So, you know, and at times the people that we elect will disappoint us.

01:52:37.686 --> 01:52:43.306
You know, I've been on both sides of that coin. Right? But.

01:52:44.496 --> 01:52:52.516
If the overall record, if the overall effort is made to do the right thing,

01:52:52.916 --> 01:52:55.256
then those people should get support.

01:52:55.576 --> 01:52:58.616
And when the people are tired of that particular individual,

01:52:59.136 --> 01:53:03.196
they move on to somebody else. That's how the process works.

01:53:03.616 --> 01:53:08.896
You don't try to create a war. You try to create an emergency situation to stay in office.

01:53:09.436 --> 01:53:11.256
You accept the will of the people.

01:53:11.856 --> 01:53:17.116
And you keep it moving because that's how we've been rolling for the last 249 years.

01:53:18.476 --> 01:53:25.156
So I know a lot of y'all that are listening are not happy with the way that

01:53:25.156 --> 01:53:33.076
the shutdown ended, but I just want you to understand that in the long term, in my opinion,

01:53:34.036 --> 01:53:35.776
we're going to be okay.

01:53:36.576 --> 01:53:40.636
I just need y'all to stay engaged. I just need y'all to continue voting.

01:53:40.636 --> 01:53:44.336
In several places. There's still runoff elections going on.

01:53:44.736 --> 01:53:50.056
The same energy you had for election day, first Tuesday of November.

01:53:50.396 --> 01:53:55.576
And whenever those runoffs happen, I need y'all to go back and pick the candidate.

01:53:55.736 --> 01:54:00.876
If the candidate you want made it to the runoff, but they weren't ahead,

01:54:01.516 --> 01:54:05.096
y'all got to show back up if that's who you want to be in those positions.

01:54:05.676 --> 01:54:07.636
Right? You got to do that.

01:54:09.099 --> 01:54:15.159
I have a vested interest in the mayor of Sandy Springs. I want Mr. Carter to be the mayor.

01:54:15.939 --> 01:54:21.539
I understand talking to Representative Herndon. There's a runoff election in Albuquerque.

01:54:22.179 --> 01:54:26.239
Y'all folks need to go out and vote for the candidates you want.

01:54:26.359 --> 01:54:29.939
If you want to keep the current mayor, y'all got to show back up. Right?

01:54:30.739 --> 01:54:34.279
I mean, that's how it works. So if there's a runoff election,

01:54:34.439 --> 01:54:37.819
there's a runoff election in District 26.

01:54:40.839 --> 01:54:44.739
In Jackson to replace Senator Horn, who's now the mayor there.

01:54:45.559 --> 01:54:49.719
Y'all need to get out and support the candidate you believe is going to be the

01:54:49.719 --> 01:54:51.339
best one to do that, right?

01:54:52.059 --> 01:54:55.259
I just think that we're going to be okay.

01:54:56.159 --> 01:55:02.619
We're going to be okay. We just need, well, I'm asking you to stay engaged.

01:55:02.619 --> 01:55:08.479
Changed no matter how crazy it is no matter what you see on social media all

01:55:08.479 --> 01:55:14.439
that i just need y'all to be focused and we'll get through this you know together

01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:19.359
we'll get through this all right guys that's all i got until next time.