Justice & Parenting Featuring Nekima Levy-Armstrong and Janice Robinson-Celeste

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

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If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

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First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

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Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

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truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

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Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

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listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

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Third, go to the website, momenteric.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

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leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

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Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

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Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

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and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Music.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment where Erik Fleming, I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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So I hope all the mothers had a great Mother's Day.

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As this episode drops, Mother's Day would have passed.

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And shout out to all of you all that are out there.

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And one of the guests that I'm going to have on is a parenting expert.

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And she is a publisher of a Black Parenting magazine.

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And I hope that y'all will get some idea about, you know, at least get something out of her thoughts.

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Let me put it that way. dealing with Black parenting, some of her opinions and all that.

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And my other guest is, for lack of a better term, a hellraiser in her hometown.

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And somebody that I've been following

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from afar for a while and was really honored to get this sister on.

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And she's also a proud mom, too. So I hope both of those ladies had great Mother's Days.

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And I hope that, you know, this episode is a nice reward for them to to hear

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themselves expressing to you, the listeners, their thoughts and concerns about

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issues that are happening in our community.

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So we got a new pope and it turns out the pope is black.

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I was just happy enough. He was from Chicago. Right.

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But now we're finding out that he's got a Creole background from New Orleans, Louisiana.

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So welcome, world. He finally got a black pope.

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I don't know if he wears that on his sleeve or not. Probably not.

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But, you know, Peruvian folks are already claiming him, too,

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because he spent 20 years there doing missionary work.

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So I hope this man, you know, he's 69 and Pope Leo XIV.

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Long may live and serve the Catholic Church well and continue to use that position

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as a voice for not only Christianity, but humanity.

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And then some other stuff that we're going to get into later on after the interviews,

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but I think it's going to be a good show.

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And as always, you know, I appreciate y'all for listening.

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And 20,000 is still the goal. We're not giving up on that ever until we reach

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it, 20,000 subscribers. You can go to patreon.com slash a moment with Erik Fleming,

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and sign up. And it's only a dollar.

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If you want some cool stuff, you pay a little more, but we just need to get

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those subscribers going as fast and as heavy as we can.

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So really appreciate y'all support and listening anyway.

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And as always, now it's time to kick this program off and we kick it off with

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a moment of news with Grace G.

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Music.

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Thanks, Erik. Three former Memphis officers were acquitted of all charges,

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including murder, in the 2023 fatal beating of Tyree Nichols.

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Cardinal Robert Prevost, 69, was chosen as the first U.S. native pope, taking the name Leo XIV.

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A Republican North Carolina Supreme Court candidate conceded defeat after a

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federal judge upheld Democratic Justice Allison Riggs' victory by blocking the

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rejection of military and overseas ballots.

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Rodney Hinton Jr. was jailed without bond for allegedly killing a deputy in

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retaliation after Cincinnati police fatally shot his son, who they claim was armed during a pursuit.

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Joseph Czuba received 53 years for killing a Palestinian-American boy and wounding

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his mother in a 2023 attack tied to the Israel-Gaza the conflict.

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India and Pakistan engaged in severe cross-border attacks in Kashmir following

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an April deadly assault on Hindu tourists.

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The U.S. halted airstrikes against Yemen's Houthis after Oman broke a ceasefire

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agreement to protect regional shipping lanes.

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U.S. authorities dismantled a

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major fentanyl trafficking ring across six states, arresting 16 suspects.

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President Trump announced plans to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status,

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prompting the university to call the move unlawful and sue over frozen federal grants.

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The Trump administration proposed offering $1,000 stipends to migrants who self-deport,

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arguing it would cost less than forced removals.

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The U.S. government reached a settlement with the family of Ashley Babbitt,

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who was killed during the January 6th Capitol riot.

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A federal judge ruled Trump's order targeting law firm Perkins Coie unconstitutional.

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A federal appeals court denied Trump's bid to end temporary legal protections

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for hundreds of thousands of migrants Anthony Albanese secured a historic second

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term as Australia's prime minister

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And measles cases rose in Texas and New Mexico to 769 I am Grace G.,

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and this has been A Moment of News.

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Music.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for

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my guest, Nikema Levy-Armstrong.

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Nikema Levy-Armstrong is a civil rights attorney, activist, and founder of the

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Racial Justice Network.

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Nikema is a former law professor and a former President of the Minneapolis NAACP.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Nikema Levy Armstrong.

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Music.

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All right, Nikema Levy-Armstrong, Madam President, Warrior,

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how you doing? You doing good?

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I'm doing great. Thank you for having me today. It's an honor to be on your show.

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Well, it's an honor for me to have you on, you know, just been kind of following you from afar.

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And I didn't realize that we had a connection, but we'll get into that as we

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get into the interview. you.

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One of the things I like to do to start it off is I throw out some icebreakers.

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So the first icebreaker is going to be a quote.

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And once you respond to that, it's a little long, but it says,

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so don't get discouraged in this moment, even though there's discouraging news.

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Sometimes you have to turn off the news and start organizing.

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There are reasons to be discouraged, but read stories of people who came before us,

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who in the midst of unjust laws, unjust policies, uncertainty,

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brutality, murder, and lynchings, found a resolve to stand up,

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to rise up, to speak up, and to refuse to be refused.

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That is the real hour that we're in. We're in the place of our power,

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so let's walk in it. What does that quote mean to you?

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That quote is from a speech that I just gave last week at the Minnesota Women's

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Press 40th year anniversary celebration.

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And they asked me to be the closing speaker.

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And so I thought that it was important to remind people of from where we have

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come and that this is not our first rodeo as a people.

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With regard to dealing with significant injustices and uncertainty and that

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we have to take the long view and not become discouraged or lose sight of the big picture,

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which is not only our survival,

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but how do we build upon the strength of our ancestors and those who came before

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us to persevere and champion the power of the people.

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Yeah. Give me a number between 1 and 20.

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Five. Okay. What do you think we should decide at the local or state levels versus federal?

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What should we decide at the local or state levels versus federal?

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So, of course, that's a wonderful question because it's something that our nation is grappling with.

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Right now in terms of the Trump administration working hard,

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at least under the guise of working hard to shrink the federal government and

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taking a lot of power and resources from initiatives and departments at the

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federal level that have served people across this country.

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So I do think that aspects of our

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government are probably larger than they should be. But at the same time.

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This requires a more delicate balance than what we're seeing right now.

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We're seeing someone come in with a sledgehammer when what they really need is a scalpel.

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Because these aren't just policies.

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These aren't just resource allocations.

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These are people's lives that are being played with under this current administration.

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And it's causing so much fear and trauma and turmoil. So I would like to see

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more local control over certain aspects of what's happening.

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I'm thinking about, you know, the role of ICE, for example.

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You know, depending upon the community, ICE agents can work hand in hand with

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law enforcement to go into schools, churches.

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You know, wherever they deem necessary to pull people out and deport them.

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And it's been happening without due process.

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From my perspective, local communities should have more control because they

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know what makes sense in their communities.

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And a lot of local communities depend upon the labor of migrant workers in order

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to bolster and sustain their economy.

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So that would be one example. I think with regards to education,

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I sort of have mixed feelings regarding, you know, what should be local and what should be federal.

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And part of that has to do with our longstanding history of the educational

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system being weaponized against Black children, children with special needs

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and anyone who is othered.

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And how historically the federal government has had to step in,

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you know, even to integrate schools, for example, and to address issues.

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Some of the extreme discrimination, racism, and white supremacy that was happening

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within the public education system at the local level.

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So we've seen how the power of the federal government can be utilized to bring

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about changes that may lead to greater access to equality.

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But in this instance, the power of the federal government at the educational

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level is being weaponized against local communities when they're trying to focus

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on things like diversity, equity, and inclusion,

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leveling the playing field, and ensuring that there are programs and initiatives

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in place that give students of color, students with disabilities,

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and students who speak English as a second language an opportunity for educational advancement.

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So, you know, it's kind of a mixed bag, you know, from where I sit.

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But again, what's happening now is just way out of pocket compared to what is needed in this moment.

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All right. I didn't think we were going to have to have this conversation,

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but give me your assessment of the not guilty verdict in the murder of Tyre Nichols.

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I think it is absolutely outrageous that a jury could look at the video that

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we all saw of the abuse, trauma.

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I mean, it honestly looked like reminiscent of what you would see during the slavery era or Jim Crow,

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you know, in terms of the abuse and brutality being inflicted upon a black man.

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And the fact that these were Black men is no excuse.

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There were Black overseers on slave plantations. If we look at the murder of

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Emmett Till, for example, which happened on August 28th, 1955.

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There were, of course, the white men who were the ringleaders of the brutal

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murder of Emmett Till in Money, Mississippi.

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But it's also come to light that Black men participated as well.

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So at times, our people have been weaponized against us when it comes to reinforcing

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the system of white control over black bodies, as well as white supremacy.

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And this is no different.

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We have black officers who were supposed to protect and serve and uphold the

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law being weaponized against a black man.

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And now, because the jury didn't recognize Tyre Nichols' humanity.

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Being allowed to essentially walk away from a heinous murder that they committed.

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So I don't know how the jury could make a decision like that under the circumstances.

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I think it also speaks to the fragility of our current justice system,

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or as some lawyers call it, our criminal legal system.

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Because when you look at what happened here in Minneapolis where I'm based with

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regard to the police murder of George Floyd,

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some people unfortunately take it for granted that those four officers were

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charged and convicted at the state and federal levels.

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However, as someone who was here on the front lines and was on the inside of

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some aspects of what happened, And as an activist and organizer and attorney,

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I realized that,

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honestly, one different decision could have caused Derek Chauvin and those other

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three officers to walk away scot-free after committing a murder that we all witnessed on video.

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So I think that this situation regarding Tyre Nichols and those officers who

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murdered him highlights the fact that justice is not guaranteed, even with the video.

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Even when there is a public outrage and concern about what happened,

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there's no guarantee that someone will receive justice after such a horrendous

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act has occurred that, you know, we can't come back from, right?

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I mean, as a Black police chief, just a lot of the same parallels as Minneapolis.

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But, you know, in this instance, we just we did not see justice work.

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And it's really disheartening. My heart goes out to the family of Tyre Nichols.

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I believe he was a father as well. And so it's just it's devastating.

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And it shows that we still have a lot of work to do and that there is still

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a need for people to take to the streets.

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And take to the halls of power and demand the changes that are long overdue

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in this system and in this society.

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Yeah, I echo that as somebody that has had the privilege to wear a lot of hats,

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including a law enforcement hat, this was not a verdict I saw coming.

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And I think the word you used was disheartening. I think that's appropriate on my end, too.

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I didn't see that coming. You know, they, you know,

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some of them are going to do some federal time, but, you know,

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and I don't know, you know, in Tennessee, if, you know, the burden of proof

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for murder is different than in Minnesota or in Georgia or wherever.

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But I just, I just didn't see that coming. So I agree with you.

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And my heart goes out to the Nichols family and to the Memphis community,

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especially the black community, because they didn't deserve that.

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And yeah, I'll just I'll leave it at that for my end.

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No, I agree 110%. They didn't deserve it.

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And then the bigger context around this incident is the fact that these officers,

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from my understanding, were allowed to terrorize the community as a part of a task force.

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And so this signals to Memphis police officers that they can literally get away with murder. Yeah.

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Yeah. All right. So let's talk about you a little bit.

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How did a girl from Jackson, Mississippi, end up being a Hellraiser in Minneapolis, Minnesota?

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That's a great question. So I was born in Mississippi, as you just said.

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And then when I was around eight years old, we moved from Mississippi.

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So meaning my mom and my sisters and I, we moved to South Central Los Angeles.

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So as you can imagine, that was a significant shift.

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Coming from a much slower pace of life.

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And I would say also maybe more socially isolating in terms of mostly black

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and white with regard to the racial demographics.

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Most folks were poor. But when I moved to South Central, it was a different kind of poverty.

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You know, back in Mississippi, my mom grew her own vegetables.

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You know, it just, even though we didn't have a lot, it still felt like a lot.

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But when I got to South Central, I saw just a different level of poverty in

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the community, which was mostly

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Black and Latino community, right in the heart of crip neighborhoods.

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And when I moved there was in the early 1980s, maybe around 1985, 1984, 1985.

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And during that time was the start of the war on drugs.

00:21:09.769 --> 00:21:16.789
So you can imagine what that meant for a community that was already under distress

00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:21.189
socioeconomically and experiencing a lot of marginalization.

00:21:21.449 --> 00:21:27.349
The war on drugs just exacerbated everything that was already going on because

00:21:27.349 --> 00:21:31.289
we had a heavier police presence in the community.

00:21:31.689 --> 00:21:37.409
We had young men cycling in and out of the justice system. And I witnessed all of this as a kid.

00:21:37.729 --> 00:21:40.789
And so I remember when I was around

00:21:40.789 --> 00:21:46.109
nine years old, watching lawyers on television, advocating for people.

00:21:46.849 --> 00:21:50.869
And in watching those lawyers, I thought about what was happening in my community.

00:21:50.969 --> 00:21:56.089
And I said, you know, maybe if I become a lawyer, I can help change things.

00:21:56.469 --> 00:22:00.629
So from the time I was nine, I decided that I wanted to become a lawyer.

00:22:00.809 --> 00:22:02.009
Now, I didn't know any lawyers.

00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:06.149
No one in my family had graduated with a four-year degree.

00:22:06.973 --> 00:22:12.313
But in my heart, I just knew that that's what I needed to do to make a difference.

00:22:12.633 --> 00:22:16.653
And so that was the path that I pursued.

00:22:17.013 --> 00:22:25.093
And so fast forward, when I was around 14, I got a scholarship to attend a boarding

00:22:25.093 --> 00:22:27.553
school in North Andover, Massachusetts.

00:22:28.273 --> 00:22:35.053
And it was very academically rigorous, but it also taught me a lot about how the world works.

00:22:35.053 --> 00:22:44.353
Because many of the people in the boarding school that I attended had grown

00:22:44.353 --> 00:22:46.613
up in wealthy environments.

00:22:46.613 --> 00:22:50.133
So they didn't know much about poverty or people of color.

00:22:50.453 --> 00:22:52.493
And I didn't know much about them.

00:22:53.233 --> 00:23:00.693
And so I had to dig into my history in order to be grounded in a space like

00:23:00.693 --> 00:23:06.153
that. And so that definitely helped set the stage for my focus on civil rights.

00:23:06.473 --> 00:23:14.413
As a teenager, having to advocate, challenge people's assumptions and stereotypes

00:23:14.413 --> 00:23:20.893
about Black and brown people and use my voice in what was sometimes hostile situations.

00:23:20.933 --> 00:23:27.313
But it also helped to hone my leadership skills and to let me know that regardless of where.

00:23:28.056 --> 00:23:34.036
My family started out or where I started out, I was still capable of competing at that level.

00:23:34.236 --> 00:23:39.856
And it was really thanks to my Black teachers in LA that I even got that opportunity.

00:23:39.856 --> 00:23:44.516
They were the ones that, you know, filled out the application for me.

00:23:44.616 --> 00:23:48.276
I didn't even know anything about the opportunity to go to boarding school,

00:23:48.396 --> 00:23:50.476
but my Black teachers opened the door.

00:23:50.516 --> 00:23:55.416
So I felt I had a responsibility to live up to that opportunity.

00:23:55.796 --> 00:24:00.496
So after I graduated from Brooks, which was the name of my boarding school that

00:24:00.496 --> 00:24:04.236
I attended, I went on to the University of Southern California,

00:24:04.236 --> 00:24:08.876
where I majored in African American studies. I was pre-law.

00:24:09.296 --> 00:24:16.236
And then after my time at USC, I went directly to law school at the University

00:24:16.236 --> 00:24:18.256
of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana.

00:24:18.656 --> 00:24:26.016
And during my time in law school, I found the legal clinic and I was able to

00:24:26.016 --> 00:24:29.576
represent low-income people as a law student.

00:24:29.856 --> 00:24:33.976
And then by my third year, which is your last year of law school,

00:24:34.176 --> 00:24:37.476
I was able to become a student supervisor.

00:24:37.476 --> 00:24:45.916
They had created a position for me, which allowed me to help advise and support

00:24:45.916 --> 00:24:50.936
my fellow law students in representing low-income clients in and out of court.

00:24:51.236 --> 00:24:57.256
And so as a result of that, I wound up receiving a fellowship right after law

00:24:57.256 --> 00:25:02.216
school at the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Washington,

00:25:02.396 --> 00:25:04.956
D.C., and that was a one-year fellowship.

00:25:05.476 --> 00:25:10.936
Before my fellowship ended, I got a call from one of my former law professors

00:25:10.936 --> 00:25:16.616
asking me if I would come back to my alma mater, the University of Illinois,

00:25:17.256 --> 00:25:20.376
and become a visiting law professor for one year.

00:25:21.116 --> 00:25:27.136
And she said at the time that if I accepted the offer that they would help me.

00:25:28.047 --> 00:25:31.467
Get a law teaching job anywhere around the country.

00:25:31.907 --> 00:25:37.827
And of course, I was shocked at the opportunity, questioned whether I was ready

00:25:37.827 --> 00:25:41.347
to teach law because I was literally one year out of law school.

00:25:41.427 --> 00:25:42.987
So I was in my 20s at the time.

00:25:43.487 --> 00:25:46.887
But I felt that it was a door that God had opened.

00:25:47.047 --> 00:25:53.987
And so I walked through it. And while I was there, I got a call from the dean of the University of St.

00:25:54.307 --> 00:25:57.907
Thomas Law School. He had been the dean of the University of Illinois.

00:25:58.047 --> 00:26:02.207
I was the last person that he hired before he became the dean of St.

00:26:02.507 --> 00:26:03.667
Thomas Law School in Minneapolis.

00:26:04.287 --> 00:26:08.267
And he invited me to apply to the University of St.

00:26:08.587 --> 00:26:13.647
Thomas Law School, which was a new law school focused on faith and social justice.

00:26:14.007 --> 00:26:18.747
And I figured if I was hired there, that because it was new,

00:26:18.927 --> 00:26:23.227
I could help shape the direction of the institution and get in on the ground floor.

00:26:23.227 --> 00:26:27.607
I also figured that they weren't set in their ways, which meant that they would

00:26:27.607 --> 00:26:33.387
have space for someone like me as a young Black woman, you know, with my background.

00:26:33.947 --> 00:26:37.827
And so through that experience, I actually, when I accepted the position,

00:26:37.827 --> 00:26:42.427
it was to launch a family law clinic, which I did,

00:26:42.607 --> 00:26:47.427
representing victims of domestic violence and child victims of domestic abuse

00:26:47.427 --> 00:26:50.567
and teaching law students how to advocate for them in court.

00:26:50.567 --> 00:26:53.887
So we took the cases that other lawyers didn't want.

00:26:53.987 --> 00:26:57.547
They were high conflict and they were complex.

00:26:58.027 --> 00:27:03.447
But a couple years in of running that particular law clinic,

00:27:03.747 --> 00:27:08.527
I had started reading the local Black newspapers here.

00:27:09.087 --> 00:27:14.207
And when I started reading those papers, I saw a completely different version

00:27:14.207 --> 00:27:19.247
of the Twin Cities than what had been presented to me initially,

00:27:19.247 --> 00:27:23.147
because the Twin Cities has a reputation for being progressive.

00:27:23.867 --> 00:27:27.347
For being affluent, for being a place where anyone can thrive.

00:27:27.687 --> 00:27:31.167
That was the impression that I was under my first couple of years.

00:27:31.327 --> 00:27:35.987
I mean, of course, I'm in Ivory Tower of Academia, brand new multimillion dollar

00:27:35.987 --> 00:27:43.227
business building, being shielded from a lot of the problems that communities

00:27:43.227 --> 00:27:44.647
of color were experiencing.

00:27:44.967 --> 00:27:48.807
But once I started reading the Black newspapers, that's when I saw the truth.

00:27:49.127 --> 00:27:53.147
That's when I learned about educational disparities and.

00:27:54.019 --> 00:28:00.479
Police abuse, and low home ownership rates for Black folks and on and on.

00:28:00.959 --> 00:28:06.659
And I remember reading an article that had included the voice of an elder in

00:28:06.659 --> 00:28:11.759
our community who at the time had been the president of the St. Paul NAACP.

00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:17.379
And when I read his words in the article, it just had an impact on me.

00:28:17.459 --> 00:28:21.259
So I reached out to him and I asked if he would have coffee with me.

00:28:21.739 --> 00:28:28.059
And he did. We met at a local Black coffee shop, and we talked for about four hours.

00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:34.099
And he told me story after story after story of incidences that had impacted

00:28:34.099 --> 00:28:36.299
the Black community, going back

00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:42.579
to what his grandparents experienced in a community called Rondo in St.

00:28:42.679 --> 00:28:48.179
Paul, Minnesota, that was a self-sufficient, thriving Black community.

00:28:48.179 --> 00:28:53.259
And then the government decided to run the freeway through that community,

00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:55.819
which divided it and they still haven't recovered.

00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.879
But his grandparents were the last folks to literally be dragged out of the

00:29:00.879 --> 00:29:02.699
home that they purchased out of Rondo.

00:29:02.919 --> 00:29:07.819
And that sparked his fight for civil rights. So as he shared these things with

00:29:07.819 --> 00:29:11.259
me, by the end of that conversation, I said, I'm going to help you.

00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.519
I am going to launch a civil rights legal clinic and I'm going to bring my lawsuit

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:19.939
to the table. Now, at the time, I honestly didn't know if the law school would

00:29:19.939 --> 00:29:25.339
be open to that shift, but I knew that I needed to be open to that shift.

00:29:25.399 --> 00:29:31.959
So I went back to the law school and asked them if I could transition from family law to civil rights.

00:29:32.659 --> 00:29:39.199
Thankfully, they said yes. And so then I launched the Community Justice Project,

00:29:39.219 --> 00:29:44.319
which is a civil rights legal clinic. and that was the first community justice

00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.219
clinic at a law school in the country.

00:29:47.739 --> 00:29:52.499
Shortly after that, the dean of Georgetown Law School visited St.

00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.599
Thomas Law School, learned about our clinic. She took the information back,

00:29:56.719 --> 00:30:00.699
then they opened a community justice clinic there, and now there are community

00:30:00.699 --> 00:30:02.339
justice clinics around the country.

00:30:02.739 --> 00:30:09.139
So through that experience, it It definitely took me out of the ivory tower

00:30:09.139 --> 00:30:15.659
and out of my comfort zone into the heart of issues that impacted the Black community.

00:30:15.879 --> 00:30:22.039
And the first set of issues that we started to work with, work on collaboratively with the St.

00:30:22.139 --> 00:30:28.119
Paul NAACP was police accountability issues. And that was back in 2005.

00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:35.319
So that's how I got started, as you said, being a hell raiser. in Minnesota.

00:30:36.479 --> 00:30:41.259
So in Jackson, what neighborhood did you grow up in?

00:30:42.236 --> 00:30:48.016
So the street that I remember is Edwards Avenue in Jackson.

00:30:48.616 --> 00:30:52.496
I attended schools. My grandmother was a cafeteria lady.

00:30:52.836 --> 00:30:57.876
So, you know, I would attend schools where she was, you know,

00:30:57.956 --> 00:31:00.016
the person helping to prepare the meals.

00:31:00.256 --> 00:31:04.556
And then I would also spend time in Terry, Mississippi.

00:31:05.176 --> 00:31:09.016
So that's where my mom lived in Terry.

00:31:09.616 --> 00:31:12.856
My grandmother and everybody else in my family lived in Jackson.

00:31:13.396 --> 00:31:18.776
So for some reason, I would half the year be in Jackson and half the year be in Terry.

00:31:19.156 --> 00:31:24.636
You know, living with my grandparents or living with my mom and my stepdad and my siblings.

00:31:25.316 --> 00:31:30.456
And so the difference between rural life and city life, you know,

00:31:30.596 --> 00:31:35.456
that's how I grew up until I moved to South Central L.A. Yeah.

00:31:35.816 --> 00:31:38.696
So I don't know if you had a chance to check in in my background,

00:31:38.876 --> 00:31:43.636
but I went to Jackson State and I ended up living in Mississippi for like 34 years.

00:31:44.316 --> 00:31:47.936
Oh, my goodness. So I thought that was fabulous. I saw the Jacksonville and

00:31:47.936 --> 00:31:51.256
said, oh, we got a connection. And then I grew up in Chicago.

00:31:51.536 --> 00:31:55.616
So the University of Illinois, you know, we got a campus there.

00:31:55.776 --> 00:31:57.496
But the main one's in Champaign-Urbana.

00:31:57.696 --> 00:32:00.956
And, you know, I've had family members go there and all that stuff.

00:32:01.116 --> 00:32:03.776
So I was like, yeah, we got some dots to connect.

00:32:04.456 --> 00:32:07.936
That's incredible. Yeah, I have family members who went to Jackson State,

00:32:08.116 --> 00:32:11.416
some of my younger cousins. Yeah, yeah.

00:32:12.276 --> 00:32:17.676
All right, so you've been a candidate for public office, an NAACP chapter president,

00:32:17.976 --> 00:32:21.496
a law school professor, and the founder of the Racial Justice Network.

00:32:21.976 --> 00:32:26.356
One, in hindsight, are you glad that you are not an elected official?

00:32:26.756 --> 00:32:30.476
And two, what is a good descriptive title for you?

00:32:31.236 --> 00:32:37.576
I think in some ways I am glad that I'm not an elected official because I would

00:32:37.576 --> 00:32:40.236
definitely be a lot more restrained.

00:32:41.011 --> 00:32:44.051
In terms of what I can do and what I could say.

00:32:44.411 --> 00:32:50.231
I feel free and without a filter, you know, when it comes to challenging injustice.

00:32:50.431 --> 00:32:57.231
And I appreciate that. I also know that I would have had to deal with a lot

00:32:57.231 --> 00:33:02.951
of constituents who would not have wanted me to bring about the changes that

00:33:02.951 --> 00:33:05.631
would have been necessary in Minneapolis,

00:33:05.631 --> 00:33:11.311
specifically around police accountability, which when I ran for mayor in 2017,

00:33:11.311 --> 00:33:16.231
it was on a police accountability platform because I saw the handwriting on

00:33:16.231 --> 00:33:19.311
the wall that if we don't change this and that,

00:33:19.591 --> 00:33:22.091
we're gonna become the next Ferguson, right?

00:33:22.151 --> 00:33:26.071
Which is something I said publicly before George Floyd was killed.

00:33:26.351 --> 00:33:31.831
So I think that it was a part of God's plan for me to run, to put the issues

00:33:31.831 --> 00:33:39.831
on the table and to give people a choice to avoid what we dealt with in 2020 and beyond.

00:33:40.371 --> 00:33:44.831
They chose to maintain the status quo.

00:33:45.311 --> 00:33:51.411
That's what we got. And literally the rest is history in terms of Minneapolis.

00:33:52.291 --> 00:33:58.351
Not now just being known as a progressive place, but being a place where George Floyd was murdered.

00:33:59.171 --> 00:34:04.111
And that will sadly forever be a stain on the city's history.

00:34:04.111 --> 00:34:12.011
So I'm glad that I was not constrained by what would have happened if I would

00:34:12.011 --> 00:34:14.011
have become an elected official.

00:34:14.011 --> 00:34:19.631
I still have people encouraging me to run for mayor or encouraging me to run for Congress.

00:34:19.631 --> 00:34:24.491
And I say no, you know, each time I enjoy my freedom.

00:34:24.491 --> 00:34:36.691
And being a voice that is able to use the legal system and the laws that are meant to oppress us.

00:34:37.978 --> 00:34:44.398
As a way of flipping, flipping on their head in order to fight back against those injustices.

00:34:44.458 --> 00:34:46.638
I feel like that's a big part of my calling.

00:34:46.998 --> 00:34:53.318
And then can you repeat the second question that you have? What is a good descriptive title for you?

00:34:53.958 --> 00:35:00.858
I would say probably Freedom Fighter maybe is the best descriptive title for me.

00:35:01.338 --> 00:35:07.438
It honestly is difficult at times because I don't fit into a normal box, right?

00:35:07.638 --> 00:35:12.858
So I'm an ordained reverend, right? On top of being a lawyer and the other things

00:35:12.858 --> 00:35:14.798
that you mentioned, but I don't lead with that.

00:35:14.938 --> 00:35:21.278
It's just like whatever is in me, it comes out the way that it needs to during the time that it does.

00:35:21.918 --> 00:35:28.098
So I would say Freedom Fighter probably best captures who I am and what I do

00:35:28.098 --> 00:35:32.718
so that it can transcend a title or a position that I'm in.

00:35:33.158 --> 00:35:42.038
I just feel like God placed me here for a reason and I just try to embody my purpose whenever I can.

00:35:42.858 --> 00:35:50.018
So what did your health scare in 2022 teach you and how did it motivate you to continue the work?

00:35:50.918 --> 00:35:59.058
So I would say that my health scare really taught me the value of being healthy.

00:35:59.618 --> 00:36:05.898
That's a form of wealth that I don't think we pay enough attention to or take

00:36:05.898 --> 00:36:08.838
seriously until you are not healthy.

00:36:09.038 --> 00:36:17.938
And so I think that I prioritize health a lot more and resting my body a lot

00:36:17.938 --> 00:36:20.198
more since that experience.

00:36:20.238 --> 00:36:25.358
I also learned the power of resilience.

00:36:25.358 --> 00:36:31.978
I think I thought I I knew resilience until, you know, going through basically,

00:36:31.978 --> 00:36:35.758
you know, being diagnosed with a brain tumor, you know, and...

00:36:36.781 --> 00:36:43.001
Having that impact my vision and my right eye, and then also trying to find

00:36:43.001 --> 00:36:51.041
myself again or figure out who am I in the aftermath of this medical crisis.

00:36:51.401 --> 00:36:57.121
And I feel that I'm still learning who I am, like new versions of myself after

00:36:57.121 --> 00:36:58.401
going through that experience.

00:36:58.501 --> 00:37:04.561
But I think my level of empathy is a lot deeper for people who are going through

00:37:04.561 --> 00:37:08.101
medical issues because I know what it's like.

00:37:08.581 --> 00:37:14.421
It's hard to explain to people when they haven't been through it,

00:37:14.521 --> 00:37:16.041
what it really feels like.

00:37:16.461 --> 00:37:22.101
And it's weird for me too, because I went public with my experience months after

00:37:22.101 --> 00:37:26.301
I had neurosurgery to let people know what was going on.

00:37:26.681 --> 00:37:30.881
And sometimes I'll be out with my family or my kids and I'll have people,

00:37:30.901 --> 00:37:35.781
you know, say, ask me questions about it or, you know, say, you know,

00:37:35.881 --> 00:37:37.361
how, how's the cancer going?

00:37:37.441 --> 00:37:42.861
I'm like, well, I never had cancer, but it's still kind of weird because if

00:37:42.861 --> 00:37:47.261
I'm out with my children, I'm not thinking about a brain tumor or I'm just thinking

00:37:47.261 --> 00:37:50.301
about enjoying my life and being with them,

00:37:50.421 --> 00:37:52.561
but it's on other people's minds.

00:37:53.121 --> 00:37:59.161
So, you know, it's Still, it's like a balancing act in that sense of trying

00:37:59.161 --> 00:38:05.461
to be responsive when people ask me, but also just trying to protect myself

00:38:05.461 --> 00:38:07.581
and my family because I don't want my kids...

00:38:08.478 --> 00:38:11.458
Thinking about it, you know, because at the time when it happened,

00:38:12.058 --> 00:38:14.358
you know, I have four children.

00:38:14.538 --> 00:38:20.938
And so my youngest two, one was beginning their senior year of high school.

00:38:21.398 --> 00:38:26.218
And my youngest child was beginning, I believe, kindergarten.

00:38:26.978 --> 00:38:32.198
So I was, you know, thinking about them. And am I going to be here,

00:38:32.518 --> 00:38:33.878
you know, after this surgery?

00:38:34.198 --> 00:38:39.558
Am I going to be the same person? Will I be able to walk and talk and do all

00:38:39.558 --> 00:38:41.518
the things. I honestly had no idea.

00:38:41.858 --> 00:38:47.878
And it's by the grace of God that I am here and I do feel like I'm still recovering,

00:38:47.878 --> 00:38:52.158
but I just feel, I don't know, deeper,

00:38:52.638 --> 00:38:58.558
a deeper sense of purpose now that I have recovered to this extent. Yeah.

00:38:59.658 --> 00:39:05.998
All right. In November of 2021, You wrote an op-ed for the New York Times entitled

00:39:05.998 --> 00:39:10.338
Black Voters Need Better Policing, Not Progressive Posturing.

00:39:10.718 --> 00:39:14.858
You end the piece saying this. Black lives need to be valued,

00:39:14.998 --> 00:39:19.998
not just when unjustly taken by the police, but when we are alive and demanding

00:39:19.998 --> 00:39:22.338
our right to be heard, to breathe,

00:39:22.738 --> 00:39:28.418
to live in safe neighborhoods, and to enjoy the full benefits of our status as American citizens.

00:39:28.418 --> 00:39:34.218
That all takes hard work, not just rhetoric, political posturing,

00:39:34.438 --> 00:39:39.498
and empty promises So my question to you is, how are we doing so far?

00:39:40.634 --> 00:39:45.614
We'll probably add a D plus or an F.

00:39:46.014 --> 00:39:52.514
I mean, honestly, we haven't progressed to the level that we should.

00:39:52.714 --> 00:39:59.434
Obviously, it's only been, you know, what, less than four years since I wrote

00:39:59.434 --> 00:40:03.934
that op-ed, which is a short amount of time, you know, in the grand scheme of

00:40:03.934 --> 00:40:07.614
things and in the grand scheme of our history in this country.

00:40:07.614 --> 00:40:13.674
But the fact that no real building blocks have been put in place even to get

00:40:13.674 --> 00:40:16.694
towards that ideal, I think is problematic.

00:40:17.234 --> 00:40:21.154
And I don't think there's an intention to get towards that ideal.

00:40:21.154 --> 00:40:26.874
I think that there is an intention to check off some boxes to appease us so

00:40:26.874 --> 00:40:30.374
that we can keep showing up at the polls, even if, you know,

00:40:30.474 --> 00:40:36.134
not enough is happening for our community that makes it worth us handing over our vote,

00:40:36.314 --> 00:40:38.354
you know, during each election.

00:40:38.354 --> 00:40:47.434
You know, unfortunately, politics is really more about perception in too many

00:40:47.434 --> 00:40:53.174
circumstances than it is about bringing about tangible changes,

00:40:53.414 --> 00:40:58.534
especially for groups that have been historically disenfranchised,

00:40:58.714 --> 00:41:00.194
marginalized, and oppressed.

00:41:00.194 --> 00:41:05.634
And it doesn't matter who's in office Unfortunately when it comes to black folks

00:41:05.634 --> 00:41:12.574
Because if it mattered that Democrats were in office We would have had reparations by now.

00:41:13.367 --> 00:41:18.247
Right. We would have had some of the historical inequities be addressed by now, but we haven't.

00:41:18.427 --> 00:41:22.567
We've had Democrats, unfortunately, playing a role in our oppression,

00:41:22.567 --> 00:41:25.707
like the crime bill, the war on drugs and on and on.

00:41:26.187 --> 00:41:32.847
And I don't I don't know how much hope I have that the political system can

00:41:32.847 --> 00:41:34.967
bring about the changes that are necessary.

00:41:35.287 --> 00:41:39.127
Do I think we have to keep applying pressure to the political system?

00:41:39.327 --> 00:41:45.587
Absolutely. Do I think we need to be intentional about electing people who actually

00:41:45.587 --> 00:41:51.407
care about our plight, who understand our history, and who are willing to fight for us?

00:41:52.387 --> 00:41:58.967
100%. But do I think that the average politician is going to stick their neck

00:41:58.967 --> 00:42:03.527
out for the benefit of Black folks? No, I do not.

00:42:04.167 --> 00:42:10.147
We haven't seen it happen often enough throughout history to give me that confidence.

00:42:10.547 --> 00:42:16.587
We have seen it happen at times, right, where we've even seen some white politicians

00:42:16.587 --> 00:42:22.387
from during the day of the slavery go to the mat to fight for an end to slavery.

00:42:22.707 --> 00:42:28.067
I'm thinking about Charles Sumner, I think his name was, from Massachusetts,

00:42:28.067 --> 00:42:35.307
a congressman who actually was beaten for standing up for us in Congress and

00:42:35.307 --> 00:42:36.227
fighting for our freedom.

00:42:36.407 --> 00:42:40.067
So we have had people who've done that, but that is few and far between.

00:42:41.007 --> 00:42:45.907
Most elected officials, in my opinion, are going to protect themselves at all costs,

00:42:46.630 --> 00:42:52.310
and do what is politically expedient, not what is just and righteous,

00:42:52.310 --> 00:42:57.290
and certainly not what benefits the masses of Black people.

00:42:57.510 --> 00:43:01.890
As you said, you lived in Mississippi for over 30 years.

00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:07.430
As you know, there are certain parts of Jackson that you can go into that are

00:43:07.430 --> 00:43:16.230
still frozen in time and look like what you can imagine houses look like during

00:43:16.230 --> 00:43:19.210
the Jim Crow era and neighborhoods look like during the Jim Crow era.

00:43:19.430 --> 00:43:22.150
And the level of poverty mirrors that as well.

00:43:22.550 --> 00:43:27.830
That to me, for the richest nation in the world, is a sign that we're not serious

00:43:27.830 --> 00:43:33.530
about addressing longstanding inequalities that Black people have experienced.

00:43:34.330 --> 00:43:40.090
Yeah, when, you know, it's just It's amazing that when Mississippi was in slavery,

00:43:40.090 --> 00:43:42.830
it was the richest state in the nation.

00:43:43.450 --> 00:43:47.910
And once slavery ended, now it's the poorest state in the nation.

00:43:48.730 --> 00:43:52.490
And I think there's a correlation to the fact that percentage-wise,

00:43:52.510 --> 00:43:53.990
it's the blackest state in the nation.

00:43:54.530 --> 00:44:01.690
And you would figure that more black elected officials are in Mississippi than

00:44:01.690 --> 00:44:05.930
any other state in the nation. you would figure that would correlate some kind of change.

00:44:06.330 --> 00:44:12.350
And having been one of those black elected officials, I can attest to you that progress was made.

00:44:13.710 --> 00:44:19.410
But you know, it's like when you don't have the resources to back up the commitment,

00:44:19.790 --> 00:44:22.330
then it just becomes hard.

00:44:22.330 --> 00:44:27.510
And then people get upset because it's like when say people say they want to be self-sufficient.

00:44:27.550 --> 00:44:31.510
I mean, the phrase black power literally started in Mississippi, right?

00:44:32.344 --> 00:44:37.804
It's like then there's this automatic pushback. We can't allow that to happen.

00:44:38.064 --> 00:44:41.984
You know, I don't know if they're afraid we're going to turn the tables or what the deal was.

00:44:42.224 --> 00:44:51.964
I mean, we've had, we literally had a member of the Republic of New Africa evolve

00:44:51.964 --> 00:44:55.984
to become the mayor of Jackson, and then his son became the mayor.

00:44:57.304 --> 00:45:00.804
And black folks are still struggling. You know what I'm saying?

00:45:00.804 --> 00:45:07.664
So, you know, I remember the water crisis that they're just right.

00:45:07.924 --> 00:45:15.084
And that was and that was a situation where when the money was coming in,

00:45:15.264 --> 00:45:20.144
we still have white leadership in Jackson and that money got pocketed.

00:45:20.144 --> 00:45:24.164
It didn't get it didn't go to upgrading the facility.

00:45:24.744 --> 00:45:29.904
And so by the time black leadership took over Jackson, now the federal government

00:45:29.904 --> 00:45:33.144
is like, we about to find you for this. We about to find you for that.

00:45:33.824 --> 00:45:40.324
And even when we got the legislature to allow the citizens of Jackson to tax

00:45:40.324 --> 00:45:44.604
themselves so they could fix it, there were loopholes in there.

00:45:44.604 --> 00:45:47.604
It's like the white folks had to have a commission and determine,

00:45:48.004 --> 00:45:50.164
can you spend this amount of money?

00:45:50.304 --> 00:45:56.264
This is tax revenue that the citizens paid, but some white folks had to tell

00:45:56.264 --> 00:46:00.504
when they, you know, how much money they could spend out of their tax money.

00:46:00.924 --> 00:46:04.884
And the governor also opposed those efforts. remember

00:46:04.884 --> 00:46:07.724
he was trying to negotiate to take over

00:46:07.724 --> 00:46:10.904
the airport in exchange for allowing

00:46:10.904 --> 00:46:14.164
the resources to come to people so

00:46:14.164 --> 00:46:17.204
they can live yeah and have clean water

00:46:17.204 --> 00:46:22.184
which just makes no sense at all yeah so it's just like you know that's why

00:46:22.184 --> 00:46:28.404
you know having been an activist and been an elected official i totally concur

00:46:28.404 --> 00:46:32.384
with you you got a lot more freedom being out in the street than you do in that

00:46:32.384 --> 00:46:34.204
Capitol building where I was.

00:46:35.152 --> 00:46:41.092
But, you know, that's the issue to me is resources more than anything else.

00:46:41.232 --> 00:46:45.332
We've got to have, you know, when you're in the poorest state in the nation,

00:46:45.352 --> 00:46:50.332
you don't have much to pull from, no matter how good your ideas are.

00:46:50.532 --> 00:46:54.552
But then, you know, if you look at places that have the money,

00:46:54.732 --> 00:46:56.952
you know, what's the excuse there?

00:46:57.212 --> 00:46:59.152
Right. Other than the lack of commitment.

00:47:00.152 --> 00:47:06.232
And maybe a lack of commitment and a lack of consciousness could be part of it. Yeah.

00:47:06.512 --> 00:47:09.712
Yeah. Well, it definitely is the lack of conscience for sure.

00:47:09.872 --> 00:47:14.192
And that's, you know, let me ask you this real quick, because that wasn't a planned question.

00:47:14.332 --> 00:47:19.332
But since you brought it up, how do you feel when they say that black folks

00:47:19.332 --> 00:47:21.792
are the conscience of the nation?

00:47:22.112 --> 00:47:26.252
How does that make you feel considering all the struggles that we're still dealing with?

00:47:27.072 --> 00:47:30.252
Well, I think that in many ways, that is the truth.

00:47:30.752 --> 00:47:35.852
You know, until I always think about the color purple, right? Until you do right by me.

00:47:36.172 --> 00:47:40.552
I feel that that applies, you know, to what we experience in this nation,

00:47:40.552 --> 00:47:48.352
that America will never be what it claims to be until they do right by Black people in this country.

00:47:48.932 --> 00:47:52.492
And I think we've had people, James Baldwin, Langston Hughes,

00:47:52.772 --> 00:47:55.812
you know, who've alluded to that same notion.

00:47:56.252 --> 00:48:04.712
And we are the folks who are responsible for the building of this nation, in my opinion.

00:48:04.992 --> 00:48:10.172
Like you mentioned how wealthy Mississippi was when it was relying upon slave labor.

00:48:10.492 --> 00:48:16.412
You know, the labor of our ancestors, our people who toiled from before sunup

00:48:16.412 --> 00:48:21.132
to way after sundown, helping to build the economy of this nation.

00:48:21.132 --> 00:48:28.812
You travel to Washington, D.C., and you realize black people built Washington, D.C., right?

00:48:29.012 --> 00:48:31.472
And that's the heart of our government.

00:48:31.852 --> 00:48:35.992
And not to mention everything else that we add, right?

00:48:36.172 --> 00:48:41.652
Culturally, our soul that we bring to the table, our spirituality,

00:48:42.112 --> 00:48:47.652
our creativity, our ingenuity, our sense of royalty when we know who we are,

00:48:47.872 --> 00:48:49.632
all the things that we...

00:48:49.632 --> 00:48:53.492
I mean, even when you're driving and using your GPS, knowing that a black woman

00:48:53.492 --> 00:48:55.892
created that technology.

00:48:56.152 --> 00:49:01.212
And that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all of the inventions and

00:49:01.212 --> 00:49:07.032
things that we have created that have helped the United States be positioned

00:49:07.032 --> 00:49:09.672
as the number one world power.

00:49:10.172 --> 00:49:16.452
And we don't get the credit that we deserve as a community. We certainly don't get the resources that.

00:49:17.031 --> 00:49:24.251
That we deserve as a community. And we don't get the knowledge that we should

00:49:24.251 --> 00:49:26.851
have as a community to know who we really are.

00:49:26.971 --> 00:49:31.491
We're constantly being defined by who white people say we are.

00:49:31.611 --> 00:49:37.331
And we know that that is an anemic version of the truth at best,

00:49:37.791 --> 00:49:42.431
and really just outright lies, you know, because they write the stories,

00:49:42.571 --> 00:49:46.191
they write history, quote unquote, and that's what they feed to us,

00:49:46.431 --> 00:49:49.831
but we have to go digging to know the truth of who we are.

00:49:49.991 --> 00:49:55.151
And the fact that we're still here after all the efforts that have been made

00:49:55.151 --> 00:50:01.811
to annihilate us shows the strength of our spirit that can't be bought and sold,

00:50:01.811 --> 00:50:03.411
no matter how hard they try.

00:50:04.271 --> 00:50:09.371
Yeah. All right. So let's close this out because one of the things that you

00:50:09.371 --> 00:50:14.431
have done always is not only you talk to talk, but walk the walk.

00:50:14.611 --> 00:50:17.171
So you've written this book called J for Justice.

00:50:17.571 --> 00:50:19.771
So talk to the listeners about that.

00:50:20.751 --> 00:50:29.551
Yes. My heart is like really into J is for Justice because it's connected to our babies, right?

00:50:29.751 --> 00:50:33.051
And just understanding that our children are watching.

00:50:33.531 --> 00:50:35.871
They're listening. They want to

00:50:35.871 --> 00:50:40.151
participate in our fight for freedom when they're given the opportunity.

00:50:40.671 --> 00:50:45.411
I think about the children during the Children's March of the Civil Rights Movement

00:50:45.411 --> 00:50:48.171
and the role they played when Dr.

00:50:48.271 --> 00:50:52.331
King went into the schools and called him out, you know, because the adults

00:50:52.331 --> 00:50:56.651
had to get back to work during the times of demonstrating and protesting.

00:50:56.871 --> 00:50:58.791
And the children took up the mantle.

00:50:59.331 --> 00:51:04.151
They wanted to be out of school and fight for our freedom. And they did.

00:51:04.371 --> 00:51:09.171
You know, they faced water hoses, police dogs, arrests, beatings.

00:51:10.082 --> 00:51:14.622
As young as eight years old, which is just so remarkable to me.

00:51:14.922 --> 00:51:20.962
And so, you know, learning about that history was not only empowering,

00:51:20.962 --> 00:51:26.522
it helped to be able to put it into context as we were here in Minnesota,

00:51:26.842 --> 00:51:30.402
marching and protesting and fighting for justice.

00:51:30.662 --> 00:51:34.282
Our movement here started, I would say, around 2014.

00:51:34.942 --> 00:51:39.542
You know, we've been consistent since that time. That was after Mike Brown was

00:51:39.542 --> 00:51:42.922
killed in Ferguson. That's when we got organized here.

00:51:43.402 --> 00:51:50.742
And we started to ensure that children could be a part of our activism,

00:51:51.062 --> 00:51:53.322
you know, showing up at protests and demonstrating.

00:51:53.702 --> 00:51:58.142
In 2017, when I was running for mayor, I was pregnant with my daughter,

00:51:58.522 --> 00:52:00.582
my youngest child, who is now seven.

00:52:01.082 --> 00:52:05.622
So from the womb, you know, she was involved in activism.

00:52:05.962 --> 00:52:10.762
And, you know, And when she was little, we would push her in her stroller and

00:52:10.762 --> 00:52:13.542
have her march with us in protests.

00:52:13.842 --> 00:52:18.882
And so in thinking about that experience and the experience of so many other

00:52:18.882 --> 00:52:21.422
children who were out on the front lines with their parents,

00:52:21.662 --> 00:52:26.522
marching, chanting and holding signs, I wrote that book, J is for Justice.

00:52:27.182 --> 00:52:31.902
And a part of it is to help explain to children, you know, about the power of

00:52:31.902 --> 00:52:36.582
protesting, but also the fact that they're never too young to use their voices

00:52:36.582 --> 00:52:39.402
when they see injustice happening.

00:52:39.582 --> 00:52:47.382
So I've taken that book into schools around the Twin Cities and I've read with children,

00:52:47.562 --> 00:52:50.322
had them read to me and, you know,

00:52:50.402 --> 00:52:57.402
chant with me and also express how they feel about what they're learning through

00:52:57.402 --> 00:53:02.462
the book and also what they witness either in person or on television with regard

00:53:02.462 --> 00:53:04.022
to protests and demonstrations.

00:53:04.482 --> 00:53:07.422
So it's something that's important to

00:53:07.422 --> 00:53:14.522
me to pass along to the next generation and future generations for them to have

00:53:14.522 --> 00:53:20.422
something to refer to that helps them put our struggle into context and to know

00:53:20.422 --> 00:53:25.742
that they're not just people looking on the outside as children,

00:53:25.742 --> 00:53:30.382
but they're an integral part of not only why we're fighting,

00:53:30.382 --> 00:53:31.942
what we're fighting for,

00:53:32.202 --> 00:53:38.082
but also the spirit that they have is a part of our liberation.

00:53:39.321 --> 00:53:45.201
And I'll just conclude with something that I was told many years ago,

00:53:45.341 --> 00:53:49.621
not just me, but I was on a panel with Taylor Branch,

00:53:49.861 --> 00:53:54.721
who is a biographer for a number of books about Dr.

00:53:54.841 --> 00:53:57.821
King and the Civil Rights Movement. And for those who don't know,

00:53:57.921 --> 00:54:03.041
he's an older white man who was growing up in the South during the time of the Civil Rights Movement.

00:54:03.601 --> 00:54:08.981
And after Dr. King was assassinated, he started investigating and,

00:54:08.981 --> 00:54:10.181
you know, writing these books.

00:54:10.401 --> 00:54:14.961
And one of the things that he said when we were on the panel together was what

00:54:14.961 --> 00:54:18.841
actually got him involved in writing about Dr.

00:54:18.961 --> 00:54:25.901
King and the Civil Rights Movement was seeing our Black children on television marching.

00:54:26.821 --> 00:54:30.501
Facing water hoses, police dogs, and brutality. And he said,

00:54:30.661 --> 00:54:34.721
it made him wonder, what is that spirit on the inside of these children?

00:54:34.941 --> 00:54:38.681
I have to know, I have to learn. And that's how he became who he is.

00:54:39.161 --> 00:54:45.521
So our kids have had an indelible impact on our history, and they will continue

00:54:45.521 --> 00:54:49.541
to do so if we give them the space and opportunity to be a part.

00:54:50.021 --> 00:54:52.301
So how can people get the book?

00:54:52.841 --> 00:54:54.521
Excuse me and how can people reach

00:54:54.521 --> 00:54:59.401
out to you if they want you to speak or just talk to you about issues.

00:55:00.495 --> 00:55:06.435
So people can get my book online. It's on Amazon and Barnes and Nobles and a

00:55:06.435 --> 00:55:09.475
lot of other websites where books are sold.

00:55:09.735 --> 00:55:13.515
They can also reach out to their local bookstores and ask them to order it.

00:55:13.695 --> 00:55:18.295
They can order it from my website, nikemalevyarmstrong.com.

00:55:18.415 --> 00:55:24.415
They can reach out to me there or through Instagram. My handle is at Nikema L.

00:55:24.655 --> 00:55:29.595
And then on Facebook, my name is Nikema Levy Armstrong.

00:55:30.495 --> 00:55:33.815
Well, Nikema Levy Armstrong, I am,

00:55:34.195 --> 00:55:40.395
again, honored to have you on, and I wish you much continued success,

00:55:40.615 --> 00:55:45.895
not only in the activism part, but also in educating our young people,

00:55:46.055 --> 00:55:47.695
whether it's at the elementary level,

00:55:48.395 --> 00:55:50.855
secondary level, or at the collegiate level.

00:55:50.855 --> 00:55:54.115
I think you are a true godsend.

00:55:54.975 --> 00:56:00.555
Another reminder that a lot of good things come from Mississippi via South Central LA.

00:56:01.495 --> 00:56:04.855
And just keep praying that you keep doing what you're doing.

00:56:05.035 --> 00:56:07.835
And the fact that you're an ordained minister now, it's like,

00:56:08.035 --> 00:56:11.515
you know, now you truly are a warrior.

00:56:11.715 --> 00:56:15.915
So I'm honored. You know, I know you've been on Oprah and a bunch of other things.

00:56:16.055 --> 00:56:20.395
I'm glad you came on my little podcast. And I'm extremely honored you did that. Thank you.

00:56:20.855 --> 00:56:25.375
Thank you so much for having me on your podcast and for everything that you

00:56:25.375 --> 00:56:31.275
do to educate our people and to bring hope through these conversations and raise

00:56:31.275 --> 00:56:32.495
awareness for our people.

00:56:32.695 --> 00:56:37.815
So I pray for your continued success and that doors just continue to open for

00:56:37.815 --> 00:56:42.675
you and that you're strategically positioned in the right place at the right time always.

00:56:43.095 --> 00:56:46.175
So thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you.

00:56:46.575 --> 00:56:50.755
It's been an honor. Well, thank you so much. all right guys and we're gonna

00:56:50.755 --> 00:56:51.835
catch y'all on the other side.

00:56:53.680 --> 00:57:11.920
Music.

00:57:11.766 --> 00:57:15.706
All right. And we are back. And so now it's time for my next guest,

00:57:16.526 --> 00:57:18.786
Janice Robinson Celeste.

00:57:19.546 --> 00:57:23.806
Janice Robinson Celeste is a distinguished businesswoman, author,

00:57:24.106 --> 00:57:28.826
entrepreneur and educator with an extensive career spanning early childhood

00:57:28.826 --> 00:57:31.906
education, nonprofit leadership and media.

00:57:31.906 --> 00:57:35.946
As the founder and publisher of Successful Black Parenting Magazine,

00:57:36.446 --> 00:57:38.486
a multi-award-winning publication,

00:57:39.226 --> 00:57:43.166
Janice has dedicated herself to empowering Black families through resources

00:57:43.166 --> 00:57:47.846
that support their children's growth, education, and well-being.

00:57:48.726 --> 00:57:54.206
She is also the executive producer of Ethnic Animations and the host of Backtalk,

00:57:54.566 --> 00:57:59.586
a syndicated podcast that focuses on topics relevant to Black parents and families.

00:58:00.446 --> 00:58:04.686
Janice holds a degree in early childhood education and a master's degree in

00:58:04.686 --> 00:58:08.786
business, equipping her with the expertise to lead and innovate in her field.

00:58:09.006 --> 00:58:13.906
She has held key roles, including early childhood specialists at Children's

00:58:13.906 --> 00:58:18.206
Hospital of Philadelphia's Child Guidance Center, where she supported parents

00:58:18.206 --> 00:58:19.986
facing substance abuse challenges.

00:58:20.886 --> 00:58:25.486
She also served as the school-age child care coordinator with the nonprofit

00:58:25.486 --> 00:58:28.406
organization Parents Union for Public Schools.

00:58:28.406 --> 00:58:34.586
And as executive branch director at a multimillion-dollar YMCA where she oversaw

00:58:34.586 --> 00:58:40.446
operations and managed the NEYC-accredited child care program and summer camp.

00:58:40.806 --> 00:58:44.286
Additionally, Janice has taught at several educational levels,

00:58:44.466 --> 00:58:48.366
including at Hofstra University in New York, where she shared her expertise

00:58:48.366 --> 00:58:50.626
in multimedia journalism with students.

00:58:50.626 --> 00:58:55.966
A published author of multiple children's and parenting books,

00:58:56.206 --> 00:59:00.226
including Pride and Joy, African-American Baby Celebrations,

00:59:00.466 --> 00:59:02.186
and a toddler board book,

00:59:02.686 --> 00:59:07.026
Miles Stuffy Nose, which won the Gold Seal Mom's Choice Award.

00:59:07.746 --> 00:59:11.786
Janice has received recognition for her work, including awards from Allstate

00:59:11.786 --> 00:59:18.386
as a Woman of Triumph alongside Patti LaBelle and the Sarah Award for Women in Communications.

00:59:18.386 --> 00:59:23.846
Her writing contributions extend to the Huffington Post, and her business plan

00:59:23.846 --> 00:59:27.286
has garnered accolades with the Benjamin Franklin Technology Award.

00:59:28.086 --> 00:59:32.146
Janice's passion for helping others extends beyond her professional endeavors.

00:59:32.446 --> 00:59:35.506
She is the founder of the National Black Parenting Conference,

00:59:35.846 --> 00:59:40.026
an initiative that brings together black parents and professionals to share

00:59:40.026 --> 00:59:43.106
valuable resources and foster community support.

00:59:43.786 --> 00:59:48.286
She has also presented at events like the National Parenting Conference at Disney

00:59:48.286 --> 00:59:51.166
and the National Black Child Development Conference.

00:59:51.686 --> 00:59:55.866
Janice resides in Atlanta, where she continues to uplift her community through

00:59:55.866 --> 00:59:58.406
her diverse initiatives and leadership roles.

00:59:58.626 --> 01:00:02.886
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

01:00:02.886 --> 01:00:07.386
on this podcast, Janice Robinson Celeste.

01:00:09.520 --> 01:00:19.120
Music.

01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:23.320
Janice Robinson Celeste. How you doing, ma'am? You doing good?

01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:28.220
I am fabulous. Fabulous. I told you I just found out the Pope is black.

01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:36.100
Yeah, yeah. That's a startling revelation.

01:00:36.120 --> 01:00:39.880
It was one thing to say he's from the United States, but now that we understand

01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:45.040
he might have a Creole background, we think that's going to spice up the Vatican

01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:50.040
a little bit as well as some other folks. Oh, yeah. It's been confirmed by the New York Times.

01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:53.700
The National Catholic Reporter is confirmed. He is Creole.

01:00:54.200 --> 01:00:58.440
Yeah. Yeah. So that's going to be that's going to be interesting.

01:00:58.520 --> 01:01:02.540
That's about the closest we were going to get, because I never saw at least

01:01:02.540 --> 01:01:04.960
some of the African cardinals were being considered.

01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:09.300
But, yeah, I did. I didn't think it was going to happen. I think the closest

01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:11.880
I thought I was going to see one was in that movie Conclave.

01:01:12.040 --> 01:01:13.560
I don't know if you ever saw that. I did.

01:01:13.740 --> 01:01:17.680
I recently saw it because of the Pope's death.

01:01:18.120 --> 01:01:20.800
Pope Francis, I was like, oh, OK, I want to know how this works.

01:01:21.060 --> 01:01:24.120
And I didn't know it was going to be that good. I actually fell asleep the first

01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:25.580
time I watched the first part.

01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:29.000
And that's me. If there's no action in the beginning, I'm sleeping on any movie.

01:01:29.220 --> 01:01:34.640
But then I got back to it and I was like, this is really good. It was so dramatic.

01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:39.560
So really, really good. I highly recommend it. Yeah, I did a term paper when

01:01:39.560 --> 01:01:43.300
I was in elementary school about the Catholic Church.

01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:46.520
So I was kind of familiar with the process and all that stuff.

01:01:46.680 --> 01:01:51.580
But to actually see it on the screen like that, it added a new dimension to it.

01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:54.400
Oh, yeah, I went to Catholic school for 10 years. So we knew,

01:01:54.660 --> 01:01:57.360
but I didn't really know, you know, all the insights.

01:01:57.380 --> 01:02:00.260
And that movie really brings a lot to light. Yeah.

01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:07.940
So what I like to do to kind of kick the interview off is to do a couple of icebreakers.

01:02:08.340 --> 01:02:10.760
So the first icebreaker is a quote.

01:02:11.866 --> 01:02:16.966
So I want to get your response to that. Ultimately, I believe in taking calculated

01:02:16.966 --> 01:02:23.526
risks, staying true to my purpose, and always striving for the best outcome for everyone involved.

01:02:24.026 --> 01:02:28.906
That's how I navigate the tough decisions. And so far, it's been a rewarding

01:02:28.906 --> 01:02:31.026
journey. What does that quote mean to you?

01:02:31.306 --> 01:02:35.146
It kind of describes how I live my life.

01:02:35.826 --> 01:02:41.926
I've taken very calculated risks from the time I was a child on to now.

01:02:42.826 --> 01:02:48.326
Matter of fact, my family know that I'm a risk taker and it's kind of defined my life and who I am.

01:02:48.706 --> 01:02:51.786
Even down to doing the magazine was a huge risk.

01:02:52.506 --> 01:02:55.946
My uncle came to me one time and I didn't realize how my family viewed it.

01:02:56.046 --> 01:02:58.386
And he said, you know, he saw me on television is what happened.

01:02:58.706 --> 01:03:01.406
You know, once you're on TV, you're real in your family, right?

01:03:01.406 --> 01:03:05.566
But so saw me on TV and was like, Janice, I've got to tell you,

01:03:05.666 --> 01:03:09.506
I've got to give it to you because whatever you say you're going to do, you do it.

01:03:09.986 --> 01:03:13.266
I was like, I guess I do. Okay. Yeah.

01:03:13.926 --> 01:03:17.026
That's who I am. And I've taken risks.

01:03:17.766 --> 01:03:23.546
I just say I really have someone looking out for me, bigger than me for sure,

01:03:23.686 --> 01:03:26.246
because they could have went totally left, you know.

01:03:26.466 --> 01:03:32.606
But it's always worked out for me. My mom always told me my name was of a god,

01:03:32.826 --> 01:03:37.106
Janus, J-A-N-U-S, which means open doors. So when one closes, one opens.

01:03:37.406 --> 01:03:43.106
So I try to keep that in mind as I'm also looking at my life and looking back upon it.

01:03:43.906 --> 01:03:49.486
Yeah. All right. So next icebreaker, give me a number between 1 and 20.

01:03:50.166 --> 01:03:52.426
28. Oh, 1 to 20. Ha ha ha.

01:03:53.146 --> 01:03:57.886
Sorry. I already had it in my head. All right. So let's go 8. Okay. Okay.

01:03:58.669 --> 01:04:04.389
What is the one thing you hope the new administration will do or not do during their term?

01:04:05.249 --> 01:04:07.709
Oh, will do or not do.

01:04:08.789 --> 01:04:13.229
Since I don't have any confidence that they'll do anything correct, not do.

01:04:13.529 --> 01:04:19.549
I just hope they don't hurt people in the process. But that's already been proven to have happened.

01:04:19.869 --> 01:04:23.009
I hope there's no, and I'm going to say it's going to sound really harsh.

01:04:23.009 --> 01:04:29.469
But because I know history really well and I see the playbook that he's following,

01:04:29.949 --> 01:04:33.389
which has to do World War II and somebody with the H name,

01:04:34.129 --> 01:04:39.429
Hitler, I'm hoping that it's not going to be a genocide, especially for our

01:04:39.429 --> 01:04:44.169
people, because I know we're dancing, doing our line dances and boots on the

01:04:44.169 --> 01:04:47.969
ground and ignoring the protests. And I'm all for that.

01:04:48.449 --> 01:04:51.309
At the same time, I think we need to be calculated and be ready for anything

01:04:51.309 --> 01:04:54.529
because we don't know what they're going to do.

01:04:54.689 --> 01:04:59.349
And it seems like this country has buyer's remorse after they bought slaves

01:04:59.349 --> 01:05:00.809
here to build the country.

01:05:00.929 --> 01:05:05.169
And then they didn't know what to do with us. And thus, we had everything from Jim Crow to prison.

01:05:07.209 --> 01:05:12.249
So they are now looking to deport U.S. citizens. We're not exempt for that.

01:05:13.289 --> 01:05:16.409
Before, when he was president, he wanted to put on the census,

01:05:16.709 --> 01:05:21.189
and I'm putting two together here, but they wanted to put on the census a checkbox

01:05:21.189 --> 01:05:26.569
so African Americans can say what country they actually had their heritage from.

01:05:26.989 --> 01:05:30.309
Of course, we don't know that. We have to go get our DNA, and there's probably

01:05:30.309 --> 01:05:32.789
several countries, as I know from my DNA analysis.

01:05:33.269 --> 01:05:37.949
And so the only reason he wanted to do that is to send us back there, if he could.

01:05:38.209 --> 01:05:40.709
And I said that back then when he was president the first time.

01:05:40.949 --> 01:05:43.689
And here we are now. You see he's deporting people anywhere.

01:05:44.269 --> 01:05:47.609
That's not even their country. You know, he's deporting U.S.

01:05:48.009 --> 01:05:50.849
Citizens. You know, he deported a five-year-old girl because her mother wasn't

01:05:50.849 --> 01:05:53.069
a citizen. And she is. And her father is.

01:05:53.649 --> 01:05:55.489
And she was sick with cancer, right?

01:05:56.040 --> 01:06:01.540
So my concern is that when they finish with them, we might be next.

01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:04.880
And I just hope they don't hurt us. And if I can be deported,

01:06:05.040 --> 01:06:07.100
I'm like, send me to the Cayman Islands. I have family there.

01:06:07.200 --> 01:06:08.380
I'd be happy to live there.

01:06:08.600 --> 01:06:13.540
Send me there. Or Costa Rica. Somewhere cool. Don't send me to El Salvador or Libya.

01:06:13.960 --> 01:06:17.840
And I don't belong. You know, that's what's going on. So I'm hoping they don't do that.

01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:23.940
Yeah, I was just thinking about school days when Lawrence Fishburne's character

01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:29.120
was confronting Giancarlo Esposito's character and talking about going back

01:06:29.120 --> 01:06:32.980
to Africa, Giancarlo said, I'm from Detroit. You know what I'm saying?

01:06:33.560 --> 01:06:36.740
I'm going to Ghana. I think Ghana's gorgeous and they are accepting us.

01:06:36.820 --> 01:06:38.520
I don't even mind going to Ghana. I love that.

01:06:39.060 --> 01:06:44.060
I tend to like the Caribbean with the turquoise water and white sands.

01:06:44.220 --> 01:06:45.340
I'm like, send me to the Caribbean.

01:06:45.660 --> 01:06:49.140
That's easy for me. I love it. But I wouldn't mind being in Ghana either.

01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:54.220
Yeah, I think the African country I go to is Marituas. Yeah,

01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.720
that's nice too. Yeah, it's beautiful down there. Absolutely.

01:06:58.420 --> 01:07:03.740
All right. So why and how did you start Successful Black Parenting Magazine?

01:07:04.260 --> 01:07:09.800
A long time ago. When we first got started, we were in print only because the

01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:11.580
internet was not what it is today.

01:07:11.820 --> 01:07:18.460
It was AOL, dial-up, 1990s, and I was working for Children's High Hospital for

01:07:18.460 --> 01:07:22.540
a program for their child guidance center, and I was a parent educator.

01:07:22.540 --> 01:07:27.140
So an early childhood specialist, I had to teach parents who happened to be

01:07:27.140 --> 01:07:32.100
drug addicted in West Philadelphia how to raise their children so that they

01:07:32.100 --> 01:07:35.260
are well-rounded as possible with their addiction and as they were trying to

01:07:35.260 --> 01:07:38.920
get off of whatever drugs they were on. So I worked with social workers and everyone.

01:07:39.380 --> 01:07:43.720
There's one social worker I worked with. She convinced me to start the magazine.

01:07:44.661 --> 01:07:48.501
I was writing my own articles because I couldn't find articles that were culturally

01:07:48.501 --> 01:07:51.821
enriched because parent magazine, you know, if you're stressed,

01:07:52.021 --> 01:07:53.821
go take a trip to Disney World with your family.

01:07:53.961 --> 01:07:56.441
That wasn't, we couldn't do that, right? We didn't have that kind of money.

01:07:57.041 --> 01:08:00.741
There was no black representation in parenting magazines at the time.

01:08:00.841 --> 01:08:02.741
There was nothing on the covers, nothing inside.

01:08:03.061 --> 01:08:05.521
They didn't talk about our hair. They didn't talk about anything.

01:08:05.781 --> 01:08:09.141
So she kept convincing me and I said to her and she was Mexican.

01:08:09.941 --> 01:08:13.721
She convinced me and I said to her, if you do this with me, I'll do it. Okay.

01:08:14.361 --> 01:08:19.901
And she did. And we studied for two years how to do it and flipped the switch.

01:08:19.901 --> 01:08:21.501
And we had a print magazine.

01:08:21.781 --> 01:08:26.921
We decided to do 100,000 copies, sent them out to doctor's offices for free.

01:08:27.141 --> 01:08:29.421
We did free circulation, got advertisers' attention.

01:08:30.261 --> 01:08:33.441
Eventually, it took about a year, which was kind of a year too late for us.

01:08:33.501 --> 01:08:35.661
We were really struggling by that time. They did come on board.

01:08:36.041 --> 01:08:38.961
Kept it open for like two, almost three years.

01:08:39.141 --> 01:08:42.461
And then we decided to close it for various reasons. I found some corruption

01:08:42.461 --> 01:08:43.601
I didn't like in the industry.

01:08:43.721 --> 01:08:47.761
Missing my kids. I was on tour speaking to different women's groups,

01:08:47.901 --> 01:08:49.861
African-American women's groups all over the country.

01:08:50.041 --> 01:08:54.361
I love doing that, but my kids were little. So I felt like a hypocrite because

01:08:54.361 --> 01:08:57.301
here I am talking about how to raise your children. And I'm leaving my children

01:08:57.301 --> 01:09:00.321
with my mom all the time because I'm trying to, and I miss them.

01:09:00.861 --> 01:09:05.001
So between all of that and the money not coming fast enough, we funded it ourselves.

01:09:05.241 --> 01:09:09.701
You know, Black businesses are typically underfunded, especially publishing. I decided to close it.

01:09:10.489 --> 01:09:14.069
So for 20 something years, we lamented about it. Me and Marta,

01:09:14.289 --> 01:09:16.569
the girl that's helped me start. We've been we were friends ever since.

01:09:17.469 --> 01:09:21.209
And we said, hey, you know what? The Internet like it is now and all our skills.

01:09:21.389 --> 01:09:24.369
I got photography, web design, photo, everything, video.

01:09:24.909 --> 01:09:30.109
We could have killed this, you know, and Black Lives Matter started surfacing 2016.

01:09:30.869 --> 01:09:33.649
And I said, hey, you know, we should have a representation on the Internet.

01:09:33.809 --> 01:09:37.829
We were the first and I'm going to say it loud, the first black parenting magazine

01:09:37.829 --> 01:09:40.349
in print nationally in this country.

01:09:40.489 --> 01:09:43.769
We were the first, and no one's going to know about us if we don't get on social

01:09:43.769 --> 01:09:45.169
media right now and have a presence.

01:09:45.309 --> 01:09:48.789
And I said, you know what, I'll make a little website, too. And so I did.

01:09:49.369 --> 01:09:52.989
Didn't think much of it. Our people, once again, supported us.

01:09:53.049 --> 01:09:56.489
We always had the people behind us, the community. We started taking off again.

01:09:56.729 --> 01:10:00.529
And it's been history ever since. And we've been online ever since and may go

01:10:00.529 --> 01:10:02.809
back to print for print-on-demand shortly.

01:10:03.449 --> 01:10:09.809
Yeah. Yeah. So when people ask, is this Black parenting magazine racist,

01:10:09.849 --> 01:10:14.229
you made the argument that one magazine for all cultures is not acceptable.

01:10:14.489 --> 01:10:18.669
And you kind of touched on that a little bit in your origin story,

01:10:18.809 --> 01:10:20.389
but just expound on that a little bit.

01:10:20.669 --> 01:10:24.729
Yeah, I mean, we have issues that need to be addressed in our own space.

01:10:25.009 --> 01:10:28.329
Everything from how to teach your children to deal with the police when they're

01:10:28.329 --> 01:10:32.189
a teen and they're driving, to our hair care for our kids, to our health.

01:10:32.189 --> 01:10:35.069
Black maternal health right now is scary.

01:10:35.309 --> 01:10:38.089
So these are things that need to be talked about on a regular basis,

01:10:38.089 --> 01:10:40.149
as well as we have some general parenting things too.

01:10:40.209 --> 01:10:43.549
And we have the Black Parenting Academy right now with parenting classes that

01:10:43.549 --> 01:10:44.529
are culturally enriched.

01:10:45.400 --> 01:10:50.100
We have a culture. We took the term black and made it from lemons to lemonade.

01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:54.260
And so we are a culture now. We're not just a color. And as we know,

01:10:54.440 --> 01:10:56.080
we come in all different colors, Pope.

01:10:57.940 --> 01:11:01.740
Right? We come from the lightest of light to the blackest of black.

01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:07.020
And so all those representations need to be out there. And so we make sure of that.

01:11:07.300 --> 01:11:10.940
And so now it's not racist because we have women's magazines for women.

01:11:11.460 --> 01:11:15.440
Men aren't supposed to be in there. You know, you have Latina parent magazines

01:11:15.440 --> 01:11:17.640
and Latina magazine for that culture.

01:11:17.700 --> 01:11:19.900
And they're not in Spanish. They have their own culture.

01:11:20.280 --> 01:11:24.520
We have our own culture. And once people accept that it's not about skin color

01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:28.420
and it's about who we are, who gets invited to the picnic, because we know what

01:11:28.420 --> 01:11:30.720
the picnic is about. And we know what we say during the picnic.

01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.500
Who made that potato salad? We know what that means. You know,

01:11:33.660 --> 01:11:38.640
we know because we all are connected that way. And as anyone that has family

01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:43.780
has been through the African diaspora, this is what black the umbrella is.

01:11:43.900 --> 01:11:45.660
So we're in the UK, too, you know.

01:11:45.940 --> 01:11:49.320
So I'm happy to be black. I'm proud to be black. I'm excited.

01:11:49.460 --> 01:11:53.220
Our culture is like none other. We really got it going on. Yeah.

01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:58.780
So I was going to make it two questions, but I'll try to combine it.

01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:06.700
What has made parenting easier in this day and age and what has made it harder in this day and age?

01:12:06.780 --> 01:12:09.380
I'm going to say the internet for both answers.

01:12:09.740 --> 01:12:11.940
Both answers. It's a double-edged sword.

01:12:12.660 --> 01:12:17.620
And it makes it easier because parents can look up things quickly and find solutions quickly.

01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:23.020
We can ask chat GPT, you know. But then again, it also can put our children at risk, right?

01:12:23.260 --> 01:12:27.660
It opens the door to the world, the crazy world that we live in that we didn't

01:12:27.660 --> 01:12:29.620
even know it was that crazy until the internet came along.

01:12:30.180 --> 01:12:33.340
And it exposes our children. We don't always know what they're looking at.

01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:38.160
And they know this thing better than we do. So they can find stuff. Even you block stuff.

01:12:38.360 --> 01:12:41.800
They're good at it. So we have to watch out for them.

01:12:42.040 --> 01:12:46.260
Everything from drugs, which happened a lot, especially during the pandemic,

01:12:46.540 --> 01:12:50.280
that they were able to get offline. We lost a lot of children due to fentanyl

01:12:50.280 --> 01:12:51.980
poisoning, white and black.

01:12:52.440 --> 01:12:56.420
So those kind of things from sexual predators, those kind of scary things,

01:12:56.420 --> 01:12:59.700
we have to watch out for. So the Internet.

01:13:00.660 --> 01:13:07.780
Yeah. My cousin and I were talking the other day and we were talking about how

01:13:07.780 --> 01:13:11.340
our children were different than we were growing up.

01:13:12.227 --> 01:13:17.647
Do you feel that way about your children? And if you do, then why do you think that is?

01:13:18.227 --> 01:13:20.807
That's funny. I just had this conversation last night with my granddaughter.

01:13:20.967 --> 01:13:24.707
I have an 11-year-old granddaughter, my daughter, and I'm Gen X.

01:13:24.827 --> 01:13:27.807
And we were just talking about the different generations and how they are different.

01:13:28.307 --> 01:13:31.407
Well, first of all, our kids don't get to go out and play. It's not as safe,

01:13:31.507 --> 01:13:33.947
right, to just go out and play depending on where you live.

01:13:34.367 --> 01:13:38.007
She can't go out. I keep getting notifications on my phone from Citizens App

01:13:38.007 --> 01:13:41.047
that there are sexual predators registering all around this area.

01:13:41.047 --> 01:13:44.727
So, and this is a nice looking neighborhood. You come by, it looks great.

01:13:45.027 --> 01:13:50.727
You know, we, I'm Gen X, we got to play outside and then our parents didn't

01:13:50.727 --> 01:13:52.247
know where we were and we were good.

01:13:52.547 --> 01:13:55.187
You know, they got the commercial. Remember the commercial? I don't know if

01:13:55.187 --> 01:13:56.627
you know. Oh, yeah, I remember.

01:13:57.127 --> 01:14:00.627
Every night at 10 o'clock, do you know where your children are?

01:14:00.727 --> 01:14:01.867
They really didn't, you know.

01:14:02.167 --> 01:14:05.667
So, they were like, she's upstairs, right? Oh, okay. Because we knew to come

01:14:05.667 --> 01:14:11.187
in when the streetlights came on, right? So we knew we had to go in the house.

01:14:11.307 --> 01:14:14.867
And I would play all day in four block radius every direction.

01:14:15.167 --> 01:14:19.287
We had a hide-and-seek game that went on for like a good radius, you know?

01:14:19.547 --> 01:14:22.507
So, and we were like big kids. So we were playing hide-and-seek for like four

01:14:22.507 --> 01:14:24.787
block radius around us. But that's what's different.

01:14:24.927 --> 01:14:28.127
Like they don't get outside. They don't get to exercise. You see them getting plumper, right?

01:14:28.447 --> 01:14:31.187
Unless they're in some kind of sports from the time they're little on up.

01:14:31.607 --> 01:14:34.707
They don't get all of that. They don't get to drink out the water hose.

01:14:34.847 --> 01:14:38.807
They don't get all those experiences that we did. and it made us a lot more

01:14:38.807 --> 01:14:41.907
independent and in good ways and bad ways. But...

01:14:42.321 --> 01:14:45.341
We have to protect the children more so, I think, today. Yeah.

01:14:45.521 --> 01:14:51.001
You know, the thing that we were talking about was how expressive our children

01:14:51.001 --> 01:14:58.801
were when they were more, you know, we were just reminiscing about with our parents.

01:14:59.261 --> 01:15:03.281
A lot of the things our kids would say or ask questions about,

01:15:03.301 --> 01:15:06.001
we didn't even think about that with our parents.

01:15:06.121 --> 01:15:09.421
We were like, you know, it was like, you know, the less they know,

01:15:09.481 --> 01:15:11.941
the better, you know, the less they know about us.

01:15:12.441 --> 01:15:15.241
The better but they know they can get on the internet and

01:15:15.241 --> 01:15:18.521
find out yeah yeah i remember my

01:15:18.521 --> 01:15:21.501
child they asked me something about

01:15:21.501 --> 01:15:24.161
gender fluidity like they were in high

01:15:24.161 --> 01:15:26.881
school and i was working for the aclu at the time and i

01:15:26.881 --> 01:15:29.921
was like i haven't run across that

01:15:29.921 --> 01:15:33.341
one i need i need to do some research and

01:15:33.341 --> 01:15:36.221
get back to you on that one uh you know

01:15:36.221 --> 01:15:39.061
but it was like but they were having those kind of conversations in high

01:15:39.061 --> 01:15:41.801
school and so you know my of course my

01:15:41.801 --> 01:15:44.681
dad was like you know what's going on it's

01:15:44.681 --> 01:15:47.381
like it's okay they you know

01:15:47.381 --> 01:15:50.421
it's like trust me our children

01:15:50.421 --> 01:15:53.761
respect you and and your sister everybody else

01:15:53.761 --> 01:15:56.561
you know what i'm saying it's like but they just got a different

01:15:56.561 --> 01:15:59.321
way of expressing it so yeah i feel like

01:15:59.321 --> 01:16:02.161
they're smarter because of it somewhat i mean

01:16:02.161 --> 01:16:04.981
i have a five-year-old who's you know looking up things

01:16:04.981 --> 01:16:07.961
on wikipedia all the time like constantly on

01:16:07.961 --> 01:16:12.421
his ipad where i had child craft encyclopedias all

01:16:12.421 --> 01:16:19.081
the books but he's like he can he has the world at his fingertips at five and

01:16:19.081 --> 01:16:23.421
i'm like this is amazing he's asking me i've got continents and i'm like okay

01:16:23.421 --> 01:16:29.901
this is great yeah i had child craft i had world book too i think i got my world book when I was three.

01:16:30.561 --> 01:16:37.121
So I was like, yes, I mean, I was like, that was, you know, that was a whole new world and stuff.

01:16:38.121 --> 01:16:41.681
What is the harder assignment for a Black person in America,

01:16:41.941 --> 01:16:44.541
being an entrepreneur or being a parent?

01:16:45.608 --> 01:16:49.128
Hmm. That's a good question. It's hard to compare the two.

01:16:49.348 --> 01:16:53.988
But because I'm both, I'm just going to say being an entrepreneur right now,

01:16:54.248 --> 01:17:00.888
because black businesses get less than 1% of any venture capital money in the

01:17:00.888 --> 01:17:03.288
United States, less than 1%.

01:17:03.288 --> 01:17:08.668
Banks rarely fully fund a Black business, so you get just enough money to fail.

01:17:08.848 --> 01:17:12.208
Black businesses come and go so fast because of that.

01:17:12.388 --> 01:17:16.168
You'll see one on the internet that's got a great idea, and then next year you

01:17:16.168 --> 01:17:17.288
go to their website, it's gone.

01:17:17.668 --> 01:17:21.588
It's hard to exist without support. At least with parenting,

01:17:21.928 --> 01:17:25.768
hopefully you have some family support that can help you. We have that village.

01:17:26.208 --> 01:17:29.888
But we really don't have a village for entrepreneurs unless you join something

01:17:29.888 --> 01:17:34.568
like the chamber, And then it's still not as connected as it could be.

01:17:34.688 --> 01:17:37.488
Like, you know, you can be an ambassador to the chamber. You can get involved as you want.

01:17:37.728 --> 01:17:42.008
But that doesn't mean you want to get what you need necessarily from them.

01:17:43.008 --> 01:17:46.008
So I'd be lucky you will, but not everyone's lucky.

01:17:46.388 --> 01:17:51.788
So I think my answer would definitely be entrepreneurship because it's hard

01:17:51.788 --> 01:17:54.588
out here for PIMP. I don't know, it's hard out here.

01:17:55.888 --> 01:17:57.028
I had to say it.

01:17:58.928 --> 01:18:01.688
Yeah, but, you know, just to kind of, I remember it was,

01:18:01.808 --> 01:18:06.388
I think it was the Fearless Fund when they were trying to, you know,

01:18:06.488 --> 01:18:13.948
make sure that Black female entrepreneurs had at least some startup money and

01:18:13.948 --> 01:18:16.848
people went to court and shut them down, you know?

01:18:16.948 --> 01:18:20.288
Yeah. And they were based out of Atlanta.

01:18:20.708 --> 01:18:24.368
So I think you're based out of Atlanta, too.

01:18:24.928 --> 01:18:28.388
And a lot of people say, well, Atlanta is different because that's the black

01:18:28.388 --> 01:18:31.308
mecca and it's easier for people to get started.

01:18:32.320 --> 01:18:37.020
Here than anywhere else. Do you agree with that assessment that it's easier

01:18:37.020 --> 01:18:39.380
to start a business in Atlanta compared to other cities?

01:18:39.660 --> 01:18:44.360
I think Atlanta is friendly to Black businesses and interested.

01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:47.580
And you really do got to get out there and network.

01:18:48.100 --> 01:18:52.600
I do. I feel it differently. I started this business when I lived in West Philadelphia

01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:54.680
in my house in my kitchen.

01:18:55.280 --> 01:18:59.760
And, you know, we won like the Ben Franklin Technology Awards and stuff like that.

01:18:59.920 --> 01:19:05.520
But far as feeling connected, like, you know, and welcome to the city,

01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:09.480
like, oh, they're doing this thing that's big here. I never felt that. I never felt that.

01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:13.640
In Atlanta, I felt it. I didn't feel it when we were in L.A., but I feel it here.

01:19:13.880 --> 01:19:18.600
So I think it's more of feeling like you're at home and, you know,

01:19:18.680 --> 01:19:21.360
people are interested in what you're doing, want to help.

01:19:21.520 --> 01:19:23.540
And I think you get more of that here.

01:19:24.340 --> 01:19:30.040
Yeah. All right. So what would you like to see done in public policy to make

01:19:30.040 --> 01:19:35.180
parenting easier in America or more specifically the African-American community?

01:19:35.680 --> 01:19:39.100
OK, as far as African-American, let me get back to that, because the first thing

01:19:39.100 --> 01:19:44.900
I thought about and this will help everyone is that there needs to be subsidies for daycare prices.

01:19:45.320 --> 01:19:48.480
You shouldn't be paying more for daycare than you're paying for your car or,

01:19:48.480 --> 01:19:51.060
you know, or your rent, depending on how many kids you have.

01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:56.120
That is like killing people. I mean, you might as well stay home and open your

01:19:56.120 --> 01:20:01.840
own little family daycare center at this point because it's not paying for women to go to work.

01:20:02.120 --> 01:20:05.040
And that affects everyone, especially our African-American community.

01:20:05.580 --> 01:20:09.900
But I would like to see some policy get into place where they can find some

01:20:09.900 --> 01:20:14.780
subsidies for that, not just a child care credit, because that's not enough. It's just not enough.

01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:19.740
In America, we have people breaking their neck to try to get a 3% raise when

01:20:19.740 --> 01:20:24.460
we know inflation over the past decade has been way more than that every year.

01:20:24.860 --> 01:20:27.960
And we can't keep up. We just can't keep up.

01:20:29.116 --> 01:20:33.596
I would like to see reparations for coming to play because people say,

01:20:33.716 --> 01:20:35.996
oh, that was the past. You didn't know anything about slavery.

01:20:36.216 --> 01:20:41.496
Oh, but we do. We do. I knew my great grandmother who died in the 70s who was

01:20:41.496 --> 01:20:42.536
born at the end of slavery.

01:20:42.616 --> 01:20:44.896
And we know slavery didn't end when they said it was supposed to end.

01:20:45.336 --> 01:20:49.956
And she can tell you exactly about picking the crops. And then they came sharecroppers, right?

01:20:50.276 --> 01:20:53.956
And got paid pennies. And still, they didn't have anywhere to go.

01:20:54.216 --> 01:20:57.016
They didn't have anywhere to go. I knew her. I knew her.

01:20:57.116 --> 01:21:00.596
It's in our DNA. day, it's been proven scientifically that that trauma travels

01:21:00.596 --> 01:21:05.516
down from generation to generation, and we still aren't benefiting like everyone

01:21:05.516 --> 01:21:07.796
else from the hard work our ancestors made.

01:21:07.956 --> 01:21:15.016
So no matter what the other people say, I call it, I call them the predictable and programmed people.

01:21:15.636 --> 01:21:22.156
Whatever they say, it doesn't matter because every culture that has been done

01:21:22.156 --> 01:21:28.076
wrong by in the United States has received reparations and something needs to be done.

01:21:28.276 --> 01:21:30.896
I don't care if you let African-Americans go to school for free,

01:21:31.256 --> 01:21:34.236
get to help them get houses, plus some money, whatever it is,

01:21:34.476 --> 01:21:37.696
whatever it turns out to be, it should have happened a long time ago.

01:21:38.516 --> 01:21:43.156
Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you on that. I just, you know.

01:21:44.156 --> 01:21:48.376
I always think about the Dave Chappelle skit when we talk about reparations

01:21:48.376 --> 01:21:53.616
and, you know, the guy driving the cool cigarette truck, and all that stuff,

01:21:54.116 --> 01:22:00.716
you know, but, you know, I think that at the very least there should be,

01:22:00.836 --> 01:22:05.956
and I'm glad at least there's some discussions going on, but, you know, and, and,

01:22:06.476 --> 01:22:12.116
you know, some ideas and there's some cities like Evanston that's actually taking a step toward it.

01:22:13.156 --> 01:22:16.696
But, you know, I'm, I'm with you. I think, you know, when you see those pictures

01:22:16.696 --> 01:22:19.836
of all those black men building the U.S.

01:22:19.976 --> 01:22:27.236
Capitol and we can't get the time of day to even discuss paying us back for

01:22:27.236 --> 01:22:30.036
that free labor, it's kind of aggravating.

01:22:30.196 --> 01:22:36.716
And I hope that in our lifetime, we'll see something move on that direction.

01:22:37.536 --> 01:22:41.676
So my final question to you is, what does freedom look like to you?

01:22:42.691 --> 01:22:46.711
Freedom is, number one, important to me. I tell everybody that nothing,

01:22:46.711 --> 01:22:51.191
I mean, nothing besides my health is more important than freedom to be able

01:22:51.191 --> 01:22:53.951
to do what I want to do when I want to do it.

01:22:53.991 --> 01:22:56.951
And I'm not talking about anything corrupt or bad, but just to be able to go

01:22:56.951 --> 01:23:00.771
where I want to go without people judging me, do whatever it is that I want

01:23:00.771 --> 01:23:06.371
to do and given a fair chance to do it without judging me because I have extra melanin in my skin.

01:23:07.131 --> 01:23:10.751
That makes no sense. It makes no sense whatsoever. actually

01:23:10.751 --> 01:23:14.351
the extra melanin in our skin is is better for

01:23:14.351 --> 01:23:17.111
us and everyone else if they had it you know it keeps us

01:23:17.111 --> 01:23:20.071
healthy so freedom looks

01:23:20.071 --> 01:23:22.991
like to me just being able to be who I am wherever

01:23:22.991 --> 01:23:31.131
space I'm in without any judgment or and that's free that's free and and make

01:23:31.131 --> 01:23:33.731
sure we just have a chance that's all we ever ask for because you give us a

01:23:33.731 --> 01:23:37.771
chance we usually excel right you just got it we just need that opportunity

01:23:37.771 --> 01:23:40.171
look all the different sports we weren't allowed there once we got in them,

01:23:40.271 --> 01:23:41.911
oh God, we just took over.

01:23:42.251 --> 01:23:44.531
Because we are not deficient.

01:23:44.991 --> 01:23:50.811
We are not, I want to say it the wrong way, but we are not less than,

01:23:51.091 --> 01:23:53.611
as people would like us to believe.

01:23:53.891 --> 01:23:58.051
We know we have great genes. We know we can do the best things.

01:23:58.171 --> 01:23:59.431
We know we have great thoughts.

01:23:59.791 --> 01:24:03.871
The only reason that we were held back was because for so long,

01:24:04.031 --> 01:24:09.931
my ancestors and your ancestors were not allowed to even pick up a book and read or learn.

01:24:10.711 --> 01:24:16.471
And it was against the law. They did everything to keep us from progressing

01:24:16.471 --> 01:24:19.751
because they knew once we found out and once we had that knowledge,

01:24:20.151 --> 01:24:25.071
oh baby, we are going to take off and possibly leave them behind,

01:24:25.211 --> 01:24:30.911
which is why we're in the space we are right now where they are so worried that

01:24:30.911 --> 01:24:35.091
they're going to be the minorities and we will be the majorities with all the

01:24:35.091 --> 01:24:36.891
black and brown people as a collective.

01:24:37.451 --> 01:24:43.531
Yeah, that, you know, I tell people the story when I, my freshman year in high school,

01:24:43.831 --> 01:24:51.311
my biology teacher told me that my eye color and my skin color and my hair was

01:24:51.311 --> 01:24:55.771
a dominant gene and all the other stuff was recessive genes.

01:24:55.771 --> 01:24:59.931
I was like, oh, yeah, you can't tell me anything at this point now, you know.

01:25:00.131 --> 01:25:04.371
So that's why, like you said, knowledge is power. Ask yourself.

01:25:04.831 --> 01:25:09.791
I'm just going to comment on that because ask yourself. What in the natural

01:25:09.791 --> 01:25:11.931
world that's dominant is weak?

01:25:12.967 --> 01:25:17.047
Nothing. If it's dominant, it's powerful. It's strong. Right.

01:25:17.327 --> 01:25:19.207
I want to go say another word, but it's strong.

01:25:19.667 --> 01:25:22.967
That's right. That's right. Yeah. You know,

01:25:23.167 --> 01:25:31.427
but I stole that question from you were you were talking to some group about

01:25:31.427 --> 01:25:36.887
explaining that to children and trying to get children to answer that question.

01:25:36.887 --> 01:25:41.427
I know you've written some books, so kind of talk about as we close out,

01:25:41.827 --> 01:25:46.707
you know, what books are out there that you've written and, you know,

01:25:46.767 --> 01:25:48.647
how can people get a copy of those books?

01:25:48.767 --> 01:25:52.087
How can people access successful Black parenting?

01:25:52.307 --> 01:25:56.127
And if people want to reach out to you, how they can get in touch with you?

01:25:56.687 --> 01:25:58.847
Sure. I mean, I have a plethora of books.

01:25:59.647 --> 01:26:03.747
The one I'm most proud of is a board book for toddlers, and it teaches toddlers

01:26:03.747 --> 01:26:05.827
how to blow their nose because I'm an early childhood specialist,

01:26:06.067 --> 01:26:09.547
right? So the hardest thing is to teach a toddler how to blow their nose.

01:26:09.767 --> 01:26:14.607
And it's great for all races because I've had people who I didn't expect to have it, had it.

01:26:14.727 --> 01:26:18.207
And they just are happy about it. And they're like, this is the best book.

01:26:18.387 --> 01:26:23.407
It won the Mom's Choice Gold Seal Award. And it's called Miles Stuffy Nose.

01:26:23.807 --> 01:26:27.847
And it's available, all my books are available on Amazon. I also have educational

01:26:27.847 --> 01:26:31.407
books for parents. Everything from How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex.

01:26:31.647 --> 01:26:36.347
It's their e-book, softback books, paperback, I should say. all on available

01:26:36.347 --> 01:26:38.467
on Amazon. It's just the easiest platform.

01:26:38.607 --> 01:26:40.627
I'm not crazy about it, but it is Amazon.

01:26:41.027 --> 01:26:46.287
And I have another book called Big Kid for when you're feeling small in a big, big world for kids.

01:26:46.487 --> 01:26:50.307
The kids relate to it more than the parents do. So I found that out because

01:26:50.307 --> 01:26:52.467
I was looking at it from a child's perspective.

01:26:52.687 --> 01:26:57.067
And I took it from how we empower ourselves to do public speaking.

01:26:57.207 --> 01:27:00.567
They tell you to stand big, you know, like superhero pose.

01:27:00.767 --> 01:27:05.347
And kids love big things, trains, planes, everything. So I made sure I took

01:27:05.347 --> 01:27:10.567
everything big from dinosaurs on, put it in this book to help them build themselves

01:27:10.567 --> 01:27:13.507
up so they felt bigger than what they are. And then at the end,

01:27:13.607 --> 01:27:14.687
it says, I'm a big, big kid.

01:27:15.298 --> 01:27:18.518
And it all came from a song my daughter was singing to my granddaughter that

01:27:18.518 --> 01:27:21.538
she made up. And I recorded it. And I said, this should be a book.

01:27:21.638 --> 01:27:22.738
This is so powerful for her.

01:27:23.158 --> 01:27:26.458
So that came about that. You know, if you just look at my name,

01:27:26.538 --> 01:27:29.558
Janice Robinson Celeste on Amazon, you can find all my books.

01:27:29.658 --> 01:27:30.498
And I have more coming out.

01:27:30.618 --> 01:27:33.218
I'm doing one right now on how to potty train your child.

01:27:33.618 --> 01:27:38.518
So there's all kinds of things that will be coming out from me for the next

01:27:38.518 --> 01:27:42.538
six months. I'm putting out a new softback book pretty much every month now.

01:27:43.358 --> 01:27:46.118
I didn't say softback, but paperback. Like, but either way, however you want

01:27:46.118 --> 01:27:47.818
it, tomatoes, tomato. Yeah.

01:27:48.918 --> 01:27:53.018
So how can people reach you directly if they want you to come speak and all that stuff?

01:27:53.618 --> 01:27:57.418
The best way is through our website at SuccessfulBlackParenting.com.

01:27:57.578 --> 01:27:59.398
You can go in there as a contact form.

01:27:59.578 --> 01:28:04.478
We're also on all social media as SuccessfulBlackParenting. So Instagram,

01:28:04.518 --> 01:28:06.418
we're most active, have our most followers.

01:28:06.678 --> 01:28:08.718
We just started on TikTok not long ago.

01:28:09.358 --> 01:28:14.198
And we are also on Facebook. You can just type in SuccessfulBlackParenting there.

01:28:14.198 --> 01:28:17.478
We ask people to like and follow and engage.

01:28:17.738 --> 01:28:22.898
If you engage with us, it helps to keep us around for longer because our advertisers are looking at that.

01:28:23.078 --> 01:28:27.298
Even if you don't buy anything, click on the ads on our website, like, comment.

01:28:27.498 --> 01:28:31.398
When you do that, you don't know how much you're helping a black business.

01:28:31.718 --> 01:28:34.198
Just engaging and being active.

01:28:34.738 --> 01:28:36.478
So I appreciate it if you do that.

01:28:37.158 --> 01:28:42.998
All right. Well, Janice Robinson Celeste, it's been an honor to talk to you

01:28:42.998 --> 01:28:46.698
and to finally get to meet you. I've followed you on LinkedIn.

01:28:47.998 --> 01:28:51.258
And I said, I got to get this sister on the podcast.

01:28:51.558 --> 01:28:56.178
And, you know, because, you know, sometimes people don't understand.

01:28:56.838 --> 01:28:59.798
But it's a basic thing. Somebody that's been an elected official.

01:28:59.798 --> 01:29:08.018
I try to explain to people that everything that we do in elected positions impacts people.

01:29:08.798 --> 01:29:12.418
And, you know, one of the bills I was proud to co-sponsor because I was real

01:29:12.418 --> 01:29:17.038
active in the adoption community. I was on a board in Mississippi doing that.

01:29:17.558 --> 01:29:22.898
And, you know, one of the bills I co-sponsored was to give a tax exemption to

01:29:22.898 --> 01:29:26.838
parents that wanted to adopt children from other countries.

01:29:28.278 --> 01:29:34.598
And, you know, it's like, but everything that happens, whether it's in the state

01:29:34.598 --> 01:29:36.718
capitol, city hall, the U.S.

01:29:36.838 --> 01:29:40.198
Capitol, it impacts what we do every day.

01:29:40.438 --> 01:29:45.718
And there are a lot of legislation, there's a lot of legislation that goes through that impacts parents.

01:29:46.238 --> 01:29:50.458
And so, you know, when you accept an invitation, I said, OK,

01:29:50.618 --> 01:29:52.358
I'm going to have a parenting expert on.

01:29:53.238 --> 01:29:59.938
And I'm glad that you were able to express some of the important issues that need to be addressed.

01:30:00.638 --> 01:30:03.518
And again, I'm just honored to have you on. I appreciate it.

01:30:04.098 --> 01:30:06.358
Thank you. It's my pleasure to be on and speaking with you.

01:30:06.958 --> 01:30:09.298
All right, guys. And we're going to catch you all on the other side.

01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:20.240
Music.

01:30:21.568 --> 01:30:28.568
All right, and we are back. So I want to thank Nikema Levy-Armstrong and Janice

01:30:28.568 --> 01:30:30.828
Robinson-Celeste for coming on.

01:30:31.148 --> 01:30:36.048
Greatly appreciate those sisters taking the time out to talk to you all,

01:30:36.148 --> 01:30:38.508
the listeners, about what they're doing.

01:30:38.828 --> 01:30:44.128
And, you know, just the importance, again, with Miss Nikema,

01:30:44.428 --> 01:30:49.148
you know, just, you know, the commitment that she has made.

01:30:49.148 --> 01:30:55.528
Not only to improve the community through her activism, but also in building

01:30:55.528 --> 01:30:58.528
leadership for our future.

01:30:58.748 --> 01:31:04.488
She is a dynamic person, and as you can tell by the interview,

01:31:04.628 --> 01:31:06.988
very, very humble about it.

01:31:07.348 --> 01:31:14.808
And, you know, as guys would say in sports, I'm glad that she's on our team.

01:31:16.028 --> 01:31:22.868
And then Janice Robinson Celeste, you know, just the due diligence to stay

01:31:22.868 --> 01:31:28.868
with something that she believed in and make it work with successful Black Parenting Magazine.

01:31:30.508 --> 01:31:37.568
And, you know, her journey in making that happen and just her natural expertise

01:31:37.568 --> 01:31:44.508
that she is willing to share in that format to help young mothers and fathers become better parents,

01:31:44.608 --> 01:31:47.508
especially in the Black community. That is always needed.

01:31:48.088 --> 01:31:52.148
It's always good to have somebody looking out for us.

01:31:53.128 --> 01:31:59.828
And as I said during the interview, It's like parenting is one of the most important

01:31:59.828 --> 01:32:03.488
public policy issues that come before government.

01:32:03.888 --> 01:32:09.028
There are bills every year that impact how we raise our children.

01:32:09.348 --> 01:32:12.928
And we need to be sensitive to that and we need to pay attention to that.

01:32:13.148 --> 01:32:15.548
It's like nothing is detached from politics.

01:32:16.468 --> 01:32:20.028
Let me make that clear. Nothing is detached from politics.

01:32:20.228 --> 01:32:25.048
Politics impacts every aspect of our lives. the food we eat,

01:32:25.188 --> 01:32:29.788
the schools we go to, how we raise our kids, and then, of course,

01:32:29.868 --> 01:32:33.988
the justice system where System of Kima works. Everything.

01:32:34.608 --> 01:32:43.128
So that's why, you know, a political podcast is as important,

01:32:43.148 --> 01:32:46.228
if not more important, than any other podcast that's out there.

01:32:46.968 --> 01:32:51.028
And I'm honored and privileged to be able to bring that to you.

01:32:51.908 --> 01:32:55.588
Now, I do want to close out. We kind of touched on a little bit when I talked with...

01:32:57.924 --> 01:33:01.124
And the chemo about what happened in Memphis.

01:33:02.964 --> 01:33:09.164
And, you know, I'm really, like I said, I'm really, really disheartened by that decision.

01:33:09.704 --> 01:33:14.504
You know, reading some of the news reports, you know, they're kind of implying

01:33:14.504 --> 01:33:18.024
that because, you know, the election happened and.

01:33:19.144 --> 01:33:24.404
Attitudes may have soured or whatever toward Black Lives Matter or whatever

01:33:24.404 --> 01:33:29.084
the case may be, You know, black activism as far as police brutality and all

01:33:29.084 --> 01:33:32.244
that, that that could have impacted the decision. I don't know.

01:33:32.344 --> 01:33:33.344
I wasn't in the courtroom.

01:33:34.284 --> 01:33:40.564
I just always am amazed that when we catch police officers doing something on

01:33:40.564 --> 01:33:43.124
video, I mean, it's Rodney King.

01:33:43.824 --> 01:33:48.864
And for them to not get anything, that's that's totally disheartening.

01:33:48.864 --> 01:33:54.004
You know, at least in the Memphis case, you know, there's federal charges that

01:33:54.004 --> 01:33:55.444
these guys had to answer to.

01:33:55.684 --> 01:34:01.544
But, you know, I just can't understand how you can witness that,

01:34:01.924 --> 01:34:06.524
you know, regardless of the man fleeing.

01:34:07.084 --> 01:34:12.504
Right. You know, law enforcement, we're trained that it's like,

01:34:12.704 --> 01:34:15.684
you know, once we apprehend them, that's it.

01:34:16.224 --> 01:34:20.464
You know, if they resist, we have a right to defend ourselves.

01:34:20.764 --> 01:34:27.604
But once that that suspect is contained and controlled, right,

01:34:27.804 --> 01:34:30.964
primarily in handcuffs, that's it. It's over with.

01:34:31.704 --> 01:34:34.924
At that point, we get them to the station, get them booked in,

01:34:35.184 --> 01:34:39.144
get them to the jail and let the court system take over from that point on.

01:34:39.884 --> 01:34:46.384
We are not Judge Dredd. We are not, you know, on the field executioners of the law.

01:34:48.244 --> 01:34:51.964
We enforce it, but we were not executioners.

01:34:53.379 --> 01:34:57.739
And, you know, you got that situation happening.

01:34:58.039 --> 01:35:02.399
And Jen, literally just like a day before or two days before,

01:35:02.839 --> 01:35:11.399
you had the tragic situation in Cincinnati where a distraught father allegedly

01:35:11.399 --> 01:35:18.899
ran over a police officer and killed him because his son was killed by the police the day before.

01:35:19.379 --> 01:35:24.179
Right. and there's questions about whether the young man was armed or not.

01:35:24.179 --> 01:35:28.359
He was one of four suspects involved in a car theft.

01:35:29.019 --> 01:35:35.999
And, yeah, you know, it's just, it's tough, you know.

01:35:36.739 --> 01:35:42.899
Having been on that side, dealing with law enforcement, having been an elected

01:35:42.899 --> 01:35:49.359
official, having worked for the ACLU, I can honestly say I've seen all sides of the issue.

01:35:49.819 --> 01:35:55.679
And I have advocated for the right things on either side of the issue.

01:35:56.139 --> 01:36:01.779
And when we were wrong on the ACLU side, we squashed that.

01:36:02.879 --> 01:36:09.739
When you're wrong on the law enforcement side, you voice your opinion and you let it be known.

01:36:11.279 --> 01:36:17.399
And especially during training, because that's when you're supposed to get all the bad habits out.

01:36:18.099 --> 01:36:21.139
The instructors are supposed to pick up on things and say, no,

01:36:21.259 --> 01:36:22.419
no, that's not how we do that.

01:36:22.899 --> 01:36:26.419
You need to get yourself out of that situation. We're going to put you in stressful

01:36:26.419 --> 01:36:32.399
situations, but our goal is to teach you how to handle that stress without causing

01:36:32.399 --> 01:36:34.879
unnecessary harm, right?

01:36:35.659 --> 01:36:39.359
You're trained in weapons. You're trained how to use those weapons properly.

01:36:39.579 --> 01:36:43.299
You're trained how to handle situations properly.

01:36:44.259 --> 01:36:49.179
And they're going to put you in stressful situations. so they can feel confident

01:36:49.179 --> 01:36:52.719
that when you get out there that you're going to follow that training.

01:36:53.979 --> 01:36:56.859
And what we saw in Memphis didn't happen.

01:36:58.159 --> 01:37:01.939
The jury's still out on what happened in Cincinnati, whether it was justified or not.

01:37:02.439 --> 01:37:07.719
All things tendency-wise, it looks like they're going to rule that justifiable

01:37:07.719 --> 01:37:12.559
homicide in the case with Mr. Hinton's child.

01:37:14.199 --> 01:37:19.699
But, you know, I mean, we're living in a very, very perilous time.

01:37:21.439 --> 01:37:25.679
And no matter how you really feel about what Mr.

01:37:25.759 --> 01:37:29.819
Hinton did, for those of y'all in law enforcement, I want you to understand,

01:37:29.819 --> 01:37:34.139
this is a real thing that we have to deal with.

01:37:34.659 --> 01:37:39.659
And we may not know when we'll be the target, right?

01:37:41.039 --> 01:37:44.599
And I say that even though I'm not active in law enforcement anymore.

01:37:44.739 --> 01:37:51.719
I mean, I'm still connected, right? I still have friends that are doing this kind of work.

01:37:53.619 --> 01:38:00.219
And so, you know, and the majority of the people that are living in this society

01:38:00.219 --> 01:38:02.619
are good and decent people.

01:38:03.279 --> 01:38:05.399
But everybody has a breaking point.

01:38:06.299 --> 01:38:12.059
And it seems like in our politics and in all aspects of our lives,

01:38:12.199 --> 01:38:16.679
it seems like there are people that are hell bent on pushing folks to that breaking point.

01:38:18.579 --> 01:38:27.019
And although there's nothing really I can do, all I can attempt to do is encourage

01:38:27.019 --> 01:38:31.039
people to stop engaging in that behavior.

01:38:31.899 --> 01:38:39.619
As long as X is out there, there's got to be a voice for those people.

01:38:42.045 --> 01:38:45.445
As long as we have the internet, as Ms.

01:38:45.545 --> 01:38:53.125
Janice pointed out, we're just going to have to be careful about what we and

01:38:53.125 --> 01:38:54.425
our children are exposed to.

01:38:55.365 --> 01:39:01.085
That's just where we are. And I really hope that people would stop or people

01:39:01.085 --> 01:39:08.905
would, or at least the number of people doing bad behavior and our acting badly would decrease.

01:39:10.325 --> 01:39:19.105
But, you know, when we have leaders acting that way, it's kind of hard for other

01:39:19.105 --> 01:39:22.645
citizens not to behave or use that example, right?

01:39:23.105 --> 01:39:26.665
I mean, it's even to the point now where it's like we want to elect people that

01:39:26.665 --> 01:39:29.865
act like that and vigorously defend that.

01:39:29.865 --> 01:39:40.225
So, but we're in a perilous time, and I'm of a faith practice where whatever happens,

01:39:40.845 --> 01:39:45.085
you know, whatever you do, you'll have to be accountable for it.

01:39:45.765 --> 01:39:55.105
And even though in the case in Memphis, Tyre Nichols, justice was not totally served for them.

01:39:56.305 --> 01:40:02.545
They went through the process and, you know, the defendants got the verdict

01:40:02.545 --> 01:40:06.785
they wanted, which is the argument for due process, right?

01:40:07.725 --> 01:40:12.525
You know, what we're dealing with with these immigrants that are being deported

01:40:12.525 --> 01:40:15.885
without due process, give them a chance to prove it. You're saying that they're

01:40:15.885 --> 01:40:18.585
members of a gang. You're saying that they beat their wives.

01:40:19.965 --> 01:40:24.325
Let them do it in court and see what a judge or a jury would say.

01:40:24.645 --> 01:40:28.045
In immigration issues, it's the judge, right?

01:40:29.985 --> 01:40:33.545
So, you know, due process did happen.

01:40:34.045 --> 01:40:40.665
I'm not happy with the outcome, but, you know, I just know that when you do

01:40:40.665 --> 01:40:44.385
something like that, you're going to pay for it one way or the other.

01:40:45.890 --> 01:40:53.190
And so that's all we can do at this point and just try to encourage people to do better,

01:40:53.690 --> 01:41:00.250
to behave better, and to get and elect leaders who will demand that kind of

01:41:00.250 --> 01:41:03.850
accountability, not only in law enforcement, but the community at large.

01:41:04.170 --> 01:41:06.270
It's time to set better examples.

01:41:06.970 --> 01:41:10.630
You know, banging a gavel 50 times is not leadership.

01:41:11.330 --> 01:41:17.990
You know, cussing out constituents that have legitimate concerns or demeaning

01:41:17.990 --> 01:41:22.510
them, whether you're on an elevator or a town hall meeting, that's not leadership.

01:41:23.050 --> 01:41:27.130
This country needs leadership, and I've made this appeal, and I continue to make it.

01:41:27.190 --> 01:41:31.370
We need American leaders, and American leaders respect their constituents,

01:41:31.910 --> 01:41:35.210
regardless of whether they agree with us or not.

01:41:37.170 --> 01:41:45.610
Leaders respect people's opinions. And, you know, we just got to get back to that.

01:41:46.070 --> 01:41:50.050
Human life is valuable. It means something.

01:41:51.510 --> 01:41:59.530
And no matter what role we play on this planet, we have to carry that mindset with us.

01:42:00.790 --> 01:42:06.070
So that's all I got, guys. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.

01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:54.301
Music.