Evangelize, Reflect, Embrace Featuring Dr. Nancy Pearson, Tania Anderson and Hannah Bonecutter

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

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If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

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First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

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Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

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truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

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Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

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listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

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Third, go to the website, momenterik.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

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leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Hello, and welcome to another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And today, the theme of our show is going to be evangelize, reflect, and embrace.

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And I have three guests that are going to epitomize those three words in the title.

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As I am recording right now, this is my father's 84th birthday,

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and I hope that he's doing well.

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And we're also in a government shutdown. Two very significant things in my life.

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Although I do not work for the federal government, those of us who are American

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citizens understand that this is serious.

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Now, you know, we've been through this before here in this country,

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and we've been through this before with a Trump presidency.

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Last time he was in office, I think we were in a shutdown mode for about a month, maybe a little more.

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So, you know, it is what it is on that. Hopefully, folks can reach some kind of agreement.

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You know, the Democrats are trying to make sure that millions of Americans can

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still afford their health insurance,

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be able to get the subsidies that the Affordable Care Act provided,

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that those subsidies are supposed to expire in December.

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And, you know, just trying to make sure that folks still are able to get the

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cheapest possible health care if they are not employed or if they're not employed

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with an employer that provides health,

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if they are employed with an employer that does not provide health care insurance.

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So that's that. And, you know, we're still in this concept of budget resolutions

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instead of just normal budget procedures.

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Again, It's mind-blowing to me and to anybody that's ever served in a state

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legislature because we were under rules where we couldn't adjourn unless the budget was balanced,

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let alone trying to do emergency resolutions in the middle of the year or beginning

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of a fiscal year or whatever.

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So those of us who served at the state level in the legislative process,

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this is truly foreign to us.

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For those of our friends who have graduated to the congressional level,

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unfortunately, over the last couple of decades, it's business as usual.

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But nonetheless, but we'll, we'll, you know, I'm not going to talk about that.

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And this is all I'm going to say about it on the show, because we've got a jam-packed

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show and I want to get to the interviews, get y'all to the interviews and all that.

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I do have some stuff to say, though, about some other stuff that happened.

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But and I promise I won't keep you long. But again, I appreciate y'all listening,

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and I would love to get y'all's continued support.

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You can go to patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming and do that,

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or just go to momenterik.com and check out the website and support the podcast, as well as, you know,

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find out a little bit about me, find out a little bit about the show and anything

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else that you want to find. And it'll link you to all that stuff.

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And, you know, I think that'll be good for those who are first-time listeners, right?

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Yeah, so this show is really, really special to me because the three guests that I have,

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you know, just like, you know, one of the things, again, and I'll say this a

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lot, there are some really, really impressive people here in this nation.

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And one of the cool things about this podcast is I get to talk to them.

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And I know lately I've been jamming a lot of people in.

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Circumstances, scheduling has kind of dictated that.

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And so far, I'm going to have a lot of, I'm going to have some guests all the

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way through into next year that have committed.

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So I'm really, really thankful for that. And I'm just thankful for everybody

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that has been a guest on this show over these last few years.

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And it's hard to believe, you know, this all started in 2019 and we've gotten to this point.

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So, again, that's a credit to you all that are listening and credit to all those

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people who have supported the podcast, either by listening or being guests or, you know,

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just embracing the show in whichever way they can.

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Shout out to Leonard Young with the NBG Podcast Network.

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And the Black Podcasters Association. And I still want y'all to pay attention

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to the Black Podcasting Awards. Please go to their website.

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Please support the work that they're doing and support the other Black podcasters

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that not only have been recognized in nominations, but are out here doing the

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same kind of work that I'm doing.

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It's vitally important that we maintain this independence.

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You know, there's some people out there that wouldn't have gone on any other

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shows if it wasn't for the independents, right?

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And, you know, I'm not trying to answer to anybody's corporation. This is my show.

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And for as long as God allows me, we're going to keep this thing going.

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All right, so speaking about keeping it going, let's go ahead and get this started.

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And as always, we started off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Thanks, Erik. A U.S. government shutdown began after the Senate rejected a short-term

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spending measure, leading to the furlough of federal workers and disruption

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of government operations.

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U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and President Trump delivered a highly charged

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address to military commanders, slamming woke diversity initiatives and suggesting U.S.

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Cities be used as training grounds for the military.

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President Trump ordered the military to deploy to Portland, Oregon,

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to protect federal facilities against domestic terrorists.

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A second Mexican detainee, Miguel Ángel García, 31, died from injuries sustained

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at a recent sniper shooting at a U.S.

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Immigration and Customs Enforcement field office in Dallas.

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The U.S. Department of Justice has filed criminal charges against former FBI

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Director James Comey for making false statements and obstructing a congressional

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investigation. The U.S.

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Justice Department also subpoenaed travel records of Atlanta prosecutor Fannie

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Willis, who charged Donald Trump in an election interference case.

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The FBI has fired a group of agents who were photographed kneeling during a

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2020 racial justice protest, a gesture they say was meant to de-escalate tensions.

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Ian Roberts, a school superintendent in Des Moines, Iowa and native of Guyana, was arrested by U.S.

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Immigration officials due to a prior deportation order.

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At the U.N. General Assembly, several delegations walked out as Israeli Prime

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Minister Benjamin Netanyahu criticized Western countries for supporting Palestinian statehood.

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In California, Maurice Hastings was awarded a $25 million settlement,

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the largest in state history.

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After spending 38 years in prison for a 1983 murder and sexual assault he did not commit.

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And Asiata Shakur, a former Black Liberation Army activist who lived in Cuba

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as a fugitive for decades, died at the age of 78.

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I am Grace G., and this has been A Moment of News.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.

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And now it is time for my guest, Dr. Nancy Pearson.

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Dr. Nancy Pearson is a local government evangelist on a mission to help people

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develop radical curiosity about where they live.

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She embraces the power of civic engagement by showing citizens how to influence

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local leaders and drive community change.

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Dr. Nancy is an educator, two-term elected leader, and holds an MPA and a PhD.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Dr. Nancy Pearson.

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Dr. Nancy Pearson. How are you doing, Doc? Are you doing okay?

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I'm doing okay today. Well, I'm glad that you are, and I'm glad that you are here.

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I came across your profile, and I was like, oh, yeah, I got to get her on the show,

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because not too many people put in evangelizing with politics in a positive way in this day and age.

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And so I definitely wanted to reach out to you, and I'm glad that you accepted the invitation.

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So we're going to get right into it. I do a couple of icebreakers before we get started.

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So the first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to comment on. And this is the quote.

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Truly marginalized people or the people that are really affected by the decisions

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that are made in these meetings aren't at these meetings.

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But the people that do come already have influence and power.

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What does that quote mean to you? What that quote means to me is how government

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is basically set up to, I would say,

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reinforce the existing hierarchy that is already there,

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meaning that the people at the top of the ladder continue to maintain their

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influence and the people at the bottom rungs trying to get on the ladder are

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going to continue to be ignored and or not have their voices heard. Yeah.

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All right. So now the next icebreaker is called 20 questions.

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So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

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Okay. What is the one thing you hope the new, and in this case,

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current administration will do or not do during their term?

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Oh boy i hope they won't mess with

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the midterm elections yeah yeah

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i'm with you on that i think that that's kind

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of scary although he he did make the announcement i don't know if you caught

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it that he wants to have a convention yes i did see that for the so it sounds

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like he he at least wants the elections to happen so we'll we'll keep our finger crossed on all that but

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Yeah, he definitely wants to throw a party, I guess, sometime.

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I guess it'll be the same time as the regular conventions in August. So we'll see.

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We'll see if the Democrats follow suit on that.

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All right. So do you feel more empowered as a self-described local government

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evangelist than you did as a local elected official?

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That is such a good question. And I'm going to say I feel as empowered.

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I don't think I feel more empowered, but I don't feel less empowered than when

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I was an elected official.

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And the reason is because I know now how to influence those decision makers

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to make sure that my voice is heard.

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And that's all that I was doing as a decision maker. I was just making my voice

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heard in the votes and the decisions that I made.

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I know how to get to those decision makers and influence them.

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So that remains the same.

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But what I don't have to do anymore

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is be held to the same high level of standard as an elected official.

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I do not have to have a right to know law on every single one of my emails.

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I don't have to deliberate a topic in public in front of the press and the media.

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I don't have to be quoted.

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I don't have to be scrutinized.

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I can just say what I want to say and how I want to say it and nobody cares.

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And so I like that better. And I was not anticipating, or I guess I just was

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very naive about the fact that everything, if you're doing it right.

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Everything you do as a public official is done in public.

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And it's really challenging to work that way.

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You know, it's very, very challenging. It should be, and it's the right thing,

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but I feel better not, not operating that way.

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Yeah. Same here. You know, I,

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I did, I did, but you know, the state legislature I served for nine years.

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And in Mississippi. And so, excuse me, thank you.

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And it was just, you know, it was just a different kind of thing because I was

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like an activist before I got elected.

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And I tell people all the time, you as an activist have a lot more freedom than

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those of us who are elected. I'll tell you a quick story.

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And a lot of times I remember the fights, but I don't remember what we were fighting about, right?

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And I know that it was an issue that was concerning the black citizens of the state of Mississippi.

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So we were having a caucus meeting and one of the members was like,

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oh, we need to get up and we need to go and march and blah, blah,

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this, that other. And I said, knock yourself out.

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And I'll call the people in your district and tell them to elect somebody else

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to do the work in here because we were given responsibility to fight the battle in here.

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It is the activist's job to fight the battle on the outside.

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And there's got to be a correlation.

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It can't be we switching roles. You know what I'm saying?

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So, you know, it is, it is a, you know, a lot of people think,

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well, you've got all this power and all this stuff, but it's like, Like,

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yeah, but we got to follow rules, you know, we got to follow the Jefferson manual

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of parliamentary procedure and, you know, all the Roberts rules, whatever.

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And, you know, it's totally different than being able to just,

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you know, grab like 200 people and walk up to the city hall or the state capitol.

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Absolutely. And I also found that no matter what kind of ideas I brought forward,

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and most of my platform and agenda was around better civic engagement with the citizens.

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The quote that you used in the beginning, of course, was very important to me

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because we always saw the same people coming to City Hall, and I wanted to see

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a more wide representative representation of our community.

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And so every time I proposed something different,

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something new, something more inclusive, it was immediately politicized because

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I was a city councilor and people found ways to twist and turn what I was trying

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to do into something political.

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And I don't even mean partisan because we didn't run our city council where

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I live is not partisan, but it just politicized everything.

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And now I don't have that anymore. I can get people to City Hall for an issue

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and I'm not being politicized for it.

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So I appreciate that on the outside. That's right.

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All right. So I need you to define a couple of things for me.

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The first thing is to find the concept of radical curiosity.

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Yeah, I coined that term.

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Radical is a word that's been going around a lot in the last few years.

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And I wanted to jump on that bandwagon because I think it's an attention getter.

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And also because it defines me. I am the kind of person who always asks,

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why do we do it this way? Who says we have to do it this way?

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Who decided we're doing it this way?

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And always go and try and find out like, what's the what behind the why, you know?

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And I found that when I moved to the city that I live in, in 2011,

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and almost immediately, I joined a board that was very connected to City Hall.

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And so I was immediately like thrown in the fire of local government and things that were happening.

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And this was around arts and arts policies and public art.

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So the cultural community of my city was kind of the way that I came up through

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the city hall and understanding how things were done.

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My city in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, we don't have a sports team.

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We don't have a stadium. We don't have a university.

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We have arts and culture. That's what we have. And that's our identity.

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And so it's kind of a big deal here.

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And I was paying attention for the first time to decisions happening in City Hall by the leaders.

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And I really didn't understand why they were making the decisions they were

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making, why they were so against, for example,

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building a second parking garage so people could come to the city and go to

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all of our great arts venues, or why they were so reluctant to expand our wastewater treatment facility.

00:20:42.327 --> 00:20:48.287
It's not very sexy, but they put it off for a decade and we were polluting our river system.

00:20:48.447 --> 00:20:50.627
So why? Why? Why were they doing this?

00:20:50.807 --> 00:20:54.027
So I had to get curious about the place that I lived.

00:20:54.147 --> 00:21:01.347
And when I did, that compelled me to run for office because I learned that what

00:21:01.347 --> 00:21:04.987
I thought was happening at City Hall is that like the

00:21:05.361 --> 00:21:11.601
smartest, most well-qualified people in the city sat behind the dais at city

00:21:11.601 --> 00:21:18.141
council meetings in their very esteemed sort of personalities making these decisions.

00:21:18.161 --> 00:21:20.341
And what I learned was that was not true.

00:21:20.761 --> 00:21:26.301
For some, it was. For some, they were very esteemed and very intelligent and were doing a great job.

00:21:26.421 --> 00:21:30.941
But for many, it was just the people who cared and who showed up,

00:21:30.941 --> 00:21:36.801
and they didn't really actually have great skills. They didn't have great thinking minds.

00:21:36.961 --> 00:21:42.181
They didn't have any kind of public administration or legal or policy background.

00:21:42.181 --> 00:21:43.681
They were just regular people.

00:21:43.921 --> 00:21:49.361
And sometimes regular people make incredible decision makers and sometimes they don't.

00:21:49.501 --> 00:21:55.021
Sometimes they can get caught up in ideology and that's what was happening.

00:21:55.081 --> 00:22:02.801
So I had to get curious about my community to understand how it worked and how

00:22:02.801 --> 00:22:04.041
I needed to get involved.

00:22:04.241 --> 00:22:11.021
And I think that getting radically curious about where you live is a message

00:22:11.021 --> 00:22:14.961
to help other people understand, like, hey, wake up a little bit.

00:22:15.101 --> 00:22:19.721
There's stuff happening in your community, and it's not always great.

00:22:20.261 --> 00:22:26.621
Yeah, it hurt my heart when I got into legislature, when I finally got elected to something.

00:22:27.341 --> 00:22:30.341
And you know when you kind of admire people

00:22:30.341 --> 00:22:35.741
from afar because i got elected like in my like early 30s so i was relatively

00:22:35.741 --> 00:22:42.261
young and so i'm like you know these are the people i looked up to really yes

00:22:42.261 --> 00:22:47.561
i i know that was that's always a shock for folks when they get in yeah it's like,

00:22:48.101 --> 00:22:53.241
oh so you're not all that okay all right i am the i was i was telling somebody

00:22:53.241 --> 00:23:01.041
i said if you get on you'll be like the one-eyed man in the land of the blind, right?

00:23:01.661 --> 00:23:07.161
And because you're more qualified than the people that are sitting on that council right now.

00:23:07.341 --> 00:23:10.881
And they didn't believe me until they got on there. And, you know,

00:23:10.981 --> 00:23:14.441
they're pretty much in leadership now. So it's eye-opening.

00:23:14.681 --> 00:23:19.181
It really is. Once you understand and get to know what's going on,

00:23:19.321 --> 00:23:20.801
it can be eye-opening. Yeah.

00:23:21.261 --> 00:23:28.601
All right. So now the other definition is what is the difference between report talk and report talk?

00:23:29.758 --> 00:23:35.598
Oh, I love these terms. These terms were coined by a sociolinguist,

00:23:35.778 --> 00:23:39.998
Deborah Tannen, oh, I want to say maybe more than a decade ago.

00:23:40.358 --> 00:23:44.038
And so they're styles of speaking.

00:23:44.658 --> 00:23:54.498
So report, report talk is a style that preserves independence and kind of maintains

00:23:54.498 --> 00:23:58.038
one's status in a hierarchical social order.

00:23:58.318 --> 00:24:06.578
And it's a communication that focuses on providing or exchanging information

00:24:06.578 --> 00:24:10.558
really without the need for dialogue. It's just kind of like,

00:24:10.678 --> 00:24:12.898
here's what I have to say. I'm going to say it.

00:24:13.078 --> 00:24:15.358
This is the information I'm imparting.

00:24:16.058 --> 00:24:23.118
Rapport talk, on the other hand, is a speaking style about building relationships

00:24:23.118 --> 00:24:29.338
and finding common ground through conversation and communication.

00:24:29.818 --> 00:24:37.538
And it's a way of establishing connections and even like negotiating bonds with

00:24:37.538 --> 00:24:38.998
each other, that rapport.

00:24:39.578 --> 00:24:48.658
And Tannen asserts that generally speaking, more men engage in report talk while

00:24:48.658 --> 00:24:52.038
more women engage in rapport talk.

00:24:52.038 --> 00:24:58.638
And I think there's some evidence of that when you look at, if we keep it to

00:24:58.638 --> 00:25:00.678
politics and local government,

00:25:01.018 --> 00:25:07.898
when you look at public comment, at how more comfortable men are coming up to

00:25:07.898 --> 00:25:13.318
the podium to speak, which is a one-way monologue.

00:25:13.318 --> 00:25:14.558
It's not a dialogue.

00:25:14.658 --> 00:25:18.138
I'm not saying women can't do it and aren't good at it,

00:25:18.258 --> 00:25:25.958
but the data do show that more men speak at public meeting and women say they

00:25:25.958 --> 00:25:30.338
don't speak at public meeting because they're not as comfortable in that environment.

00:25:30.558 --> 00:25:37.918
So that's just some data that supports her observations between rapport and rapport. Yeah.

00:25:38.358 --> 00:25:44.538
But now in the difference between men and women, the data also shows that women

00:25:44.538 --> 00:25:47.858
tend to be more civically engaged than men.

00:25:47.998 --> 00:25:51.618
So why do you think that is? I, well...

00:25:52.228 --> 00:25:56.828
I think part of it goes down to this, just sort of the way that women build

00:25:56.828 --> 00:26:02.328
relationships through communication and women build community around them.

00:26:02.568 --> 00:26:06.148
I think those things go hand in hand.

00:26:07.228 --> 00:26:13.948
Before, in the middle of when I was on the city council, the job that I had

00:26:13.948 --> 00:26:19.788
at the time, I worked for an arm of the SBA, the Small Business Administration.

00:26:19.788 --> 00:26:26.108
And so I was doing business advising to entrepreneurs, mostly women entrepreneurs.

00:26:26.108 --> 00:26:29.588
I worked for the Women's Business Center of my state.

00:26:29.728 --> 00:26:33.888
I ran it. I worked with a lot of women entrepreneurs and I learned a lot about

00:26:33.888 --> 00:26:36.268
women entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in general.

00:26:36.448 --> 00:26:44.568
And one thing that I learned was that for a business owner who's a male.

00:26:45.308 --> 00:26:54.208
Typically a man will keep about 70% of what he earns and then reinvest about

00:26:54.208 --> 00:26:57.428
30% back into his family and community.

00:26:57.888 --> 00:27:02.628
Whereas women entrepreneurs and business owners, on the other hand,

00:27:03.028 --> 00:27:10.028
they reinvest 90% of their earnings back into their families and their communities.

00:27:10.028 --> 00:27:16.688
So they are much more about community building and the collective we,

00:27:17.048 --> 00:27:23.708
and I believe that that is one of the reasons why they are more civically engaged,

00:27:23.888 --> 00:27:31.848
because when you're typically when you're engaging, it is to strengthen some

00:27:31.848 --> 00:27:33.308
piece of your community,

00:27:33.508 --> 00:27:39.828
whether that's better public transit or lower housing prices or more.

00:27:40.028 --> 00:27:45.368
You know, more services, that's generally the reason why people become engaged.

00:27:45.568 --> 00:27:47.588
They want to better their communities.

00:27:47.808 --> 00:27:55.108
And women just are wired more to be more community and communal focus. Yeah.

00:27:56.270 --> 00:28:00.310
In general, municipal elections have the lowest voter turnout,

00:28:00.590 --> 00:28:02.510
while presidential elections have the highest.

00:28:03.030 --> 00:28:07.030
Do you think that is because people don't understand that local government is

00:28:07.030 --> 00:28:10.790
the very seat of democracy, or are there other factors at play?

00:28:11.310 --> 00:28:14.810
Well, I think that people just don't really understand.

00:28:15.390 --> 00:28:20.690
I really do think that people don't really understand what their local government

00:28:20.690 --> 00:28:27.090
is, what it does, how it affects their daily lives. And it's so easy to get

00:28:27.090 --> 00:28:29.970
caught up in the national politics of it all.

00:28:30.110 --> 00:28:37.530
You know, it's pervasive, especially since 2016. I mean, you cannot escape national

00:28:37.530 --> 00:28:40.390
politics. It sucks up all the air in the room.

00:28:40.570 --> 00:28:46.350
But, you know, I think people forget that they get up in the morning and they

00:28:46.350 --> 00:28:49.910
turn on the water on their tap and whether it's clean or not,

00:28:50.070 --> 00:28:56.150
you know, or the roads that they drive their kids to school or they drive to

00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:58.450
work, the safety of the neighborhoods,

00:28:58.830 --> 00:29:05.470
whether there are simple amenities near their home, like a park or a pharmacy

00:29:05.470 --> 00:29:10.170
or a grocery store, all of this is decided at the local level.

00:29:10.350 --> 00:29:12.930
And I think people take it for granted.

00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:19.750
It's just there in the background. And I do think that people just don't consider

00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:24.570
it as important as it is in their daily lives.

00:29:25.250 --> 00:29:32.210
One thing that I always try to tell people in my evangelism is that if you do

00:29:32.210 --> 00:29:36.130
care about something that is getting national headlines,

00:29:36.390 --> 00:29:43.770
whether that's climate change or the housing crisis or even LBGTQ rights.

00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:48.010
I guarantee you somebody is working on that,

00:29:48.762 --> 00:29:53.822
not just maybe at your city hall, but if not, there's a civic group in your

00:29:53.822 --> 00:29:59.182
community that is working either in that community or on that issue.

00:29:59.362 --> 00:30:04.002
Like you don't have to just cross your fingers and hope that Congress does the

00:30:04.002 --> 00:30:06.142
right thing about the thing that you care about.

00:30:06.402 --> 00:30:13.582
Those big issues that you care about are happening in your community where you live.

00:30:13.642 --> 00:30:18.102
So I like to remind people about that. It's not just about the little things.

00:30:18.262 --> 00:30:21.582
There's big things happening at the local level too.

00:30:22.362 --> 00:30:29.702
Yeah. So part of your evangelism is not just directed toward the elected officials.

00:30:29.702 --> 00:30:35.422
It's like also guiding people to say, look, you know, there's a chapter of the

00:30:35.422 --> 00:30:39.082
Sierra Club or there's a chapter of the NAACP.

00:30:39.402 --> 00:30:43.342
If those are issues, you need to be involved in those things.

00:30:43.882 --> 00:30:48.202
That's right. Because most of those, even if it's a civic group,

00:30:48.462 --> 00:30:53.962
at some point, those civic groups will have to interface with the local officials

00:30:53.962 --> 00:30:56.502
at some point. So they're all connected.

00:30:56.762 --> 00:31:01.262
That's why it's radical curiosity about where you live, you know,

00:31:01.422 --> 00:31:08.702
because there's going to be crossover at some point with policymakers. makers.

00:31:09.482 --> 00:31:15.742
Yeah. All right. So you kind of, you kind of like on your sub stack,

00:31:15.942 --> 00:31:18.902
you kind of talk about and guide people.

00:31:19.082 --> 00:31:21.462
I should say you guide people through this process.

00:31:21.882 --> 00:31:28.122
So first let's break down the four simple steps of understanding how your local government works.

00:31:28.982 --> 00:31:35.662
Sure. So, and, and, you know, it's very common for people to not know how their

00:31:35.662 --> 00:31:38.382
local government works. Like I don't take that for granted.

00:31:38.562 --> 00:31:42.962
Like everybody knows whether they have a city council or a select board or an

00:31:42.962 --> 00:31:45.742
alderman, like not everybody is paying attention.

00:31:46.202 --> 00:31:51.022
I have to admit that when I lived in a different city about 20 years ago,

00:31:51.202 --> 00:31:54.722
I never knew who my mayor was. Never. I couldn't tell you their name.

00:31:55.182 --> 00:31:58.642
Couldn't tell you if it was a man or a woman. I mean, I was just raising my

00:31:58.642 --> 00:32:03.182
child, head down in my career, just was not paying attention.

00:32:03.422 --> 00:32:06.982
So, you know, it happens and it happened to me too.

00:32:07.742 --> 00:32:13.802
But so step number one is learning how your local government is set up. Do you live in a city?

00:32:14.042 --> 00:32:16.782
Do you live in a town? Are you in a village?

00:32:17.182 --> 00:32:23.022
You know, what is the setup? Is there a town council? Is there a select board? Is there three people?

00:32:23.162 --> 00:32:28.002
Is there five people? Or do you have a whole, you know, eight or nine or 10 person city council?

00:32:28.202 --> 00:32:30.802
So that's the first step. Learn how it's set up.

00:32:31.022 --> 00:32:34.342
And then the second step is find out who's in charge.

00:32:34.742 --> 00:32:39.602
Who are those elected people? Do you have a town manager or a city manager?

00:32:39.842 --> 00:32:45.522
Or is your mayor the one that is actually running the town? It's different everywhere.

00:32:46.467 --> 00:32:52.107
So, you know, who is in charge? Who are the people that are making decisions? Get to know their names.

00:32:52.547 --> 00:32:56.207
Find out if they're elected or if they're the professional people.

00:32:56.487 --> 00:33:00.707
A city manager and a town manager are typically hired professionals,

00:33:00.707 --> 00:33:03.327
whereas the others are elected.

00:33:03.627 --> 00:33:07.607
So, you know, figure out who's making the decisions and who's in charge.

00:33:07.827 --> 00:33:12.707
And then the third step is to start paying attention. And there's so many ways

00:33:12.707 --> 00:33:15.207
today that you can pay attention.

00:33:15.827 --> 00:33:21.767
Most cities and towns film their council or their select board meetings,

00:33:21.827 --> 00:33:25.627
and you can either watch or listen to them after the fact.

00:33:26.027 --> 00:33:31.787
Sometimes you can watch or listen to them live streamed right on the town website

00:33:31.787 --> 00:33:34.527
or on YouTube, or you can go to a meeting.

00:33:34.527 --> 00:33:40.867
Now, in my research, when I did my dissertation and I was talking to a lot of

00:33:40.867 --> 00:33:42.387
people in municipal government,

00:33:42.387 --> 00:33:48.407
it was a general consensus that physically having to go to a public meeting

00:33:48.407 --> 00:33:51.547
was a barrier for a lot of people,

00:33:51.727 --> 00:33:56.407
which is why having them live streamed, having them, you know,

00:33:56.667 --> 00:34:01.387
archived on a website is really the way to go because that way people can access

00:34:01.387 --> 00:34:04.507
them and watch them and catch up after.

00:34:04.527 --> 00:34:08.887
But you can usually, if you don't have the time to watch a meeting,

00:34:09.227 --> 00:34:12.967
you can always just look at the agenda and the minutes.

00:34:13.387 --> 00:34:17.627
You know, scanning meeting minutes is one way to find out what happened.

00:34:17.767 --> 00:34:21.387
But paying attention and seeing what's going on.

00:34:21.607 --> 00:34:28.307
You'll learn a lot about a city or a town's values by looking at the agenda

00:34:28.307 --> 00:34:29.667
on their public meetings.

00:34:29.667 --> 00:34:34.847
You'll also learn about a city or town's values by looking at their budget and

00:34:34.847 --> 00:34:36.607
what they're willing to spend money on.

00:34:36.807 --> 00:34:42.987
So that's just a little advanced tip, you know, about what cities and towns care about.

00:34:43.928 --> 00:34:49.808
So, yes, paying attention, figuring out what your elected officials are talking

00:34:49.808 --> 00:34:54.248
about, where their focus and their attention is, is important.

00:34:54.248 --> 00:34:59.808
And then the last step is getting involved, asking questions,

00:35:00.708 --> 00:35:08.088
showing up, whether that means at a meeting or at a sort of community event

00:35:08.088 --> 00:35:14.488
or by sending emails or for some people speaking during public comment.

00:35:14.488 --> 00:35:17.568
Because these people are there to represent

00:35:17.568 --> 00:35:21.048
you and you're on

00:35:21.048 --> 00:35:24.208
the on the org chart of your town you're

00:35:24.208 --> 00:35:31.968
at the very top the citizen is at the very top so those people in theory yes

00:35:31.968 --> 00:35:36.368
they are the leaders and the decision makers but they can't be in their seats

00:35:36.368 --> 00:35:41.868
without citizens getting them there So once those people win their elections.

00:35:42.968 --> 00:35:48.268
You got to hold them accountable and make sure that they're doing what they

00:35:48.268 --> 00:35:50.468
said they were going to do or what you expect them to do.

00:35:50.668 --> 00:35:55.088
So getting involved, paying attention, and of course, always,

00:35:55.188 --> 00:35:56.568
always, always, always vote.

00:35:57.288 --> 00:36:04.048
Right. Those are the four steps. Yeah. So the next step after gaining that understanding

00:36:04.048 --> 00:36:06.428
is to ascertain the power that you have.

00:36:06.628 --> 00:36:11.348
And that is where the civic empowerment pyramid comes into play.

00:36:11.528 --> 00:36:18.648
So explain that to listeners. So this is a engagement model that I created.

00:36:18.888 --> 00:36:26.148
It was after I did my dissertation and I was sort of in the habit of looking

00:36:26.148 --> 00:36:30.608
at patterns and analyzing behavior.

00:36:31.228 --> 00:36:37.128
I didn't use it in my dissertation, but I used it, I created it actually for

00:36:37.128 --> 00:36:38.788
a TED Talk afterward. word.

00:36:39.648 --> 00:36:46.228
I, my experience as a decision maker and a city counselor was that there were

00:36:46.228 --> 00:36:54.028
absolutely people in my community who were much better at influencing decision makers than others.

00:36:54.708 --> 00:37:01.788
And I wanted to understand why they were so effective.

00:37:02.228 --> 00:37:09.368
So I sort of, you know, again, And looking at patterns and behaviors, I...

00:37:10.837 --> 00:37:16.117
Looked at all the things that they did, all the behaviors that they had in common.

00:37:16.437 --> 00:37:24.457
And from that, I created this inverted pyramid called the Civic Empowerment Pyramid.

00:37:24.597 --> 00:37:30.077
And the higher you climb up the pyramid, the more power you have with the leaders

00:37:30.077 --> 00:37:32.477
and decision makers, which is why it's upside down.

00:37:32.857 --> 00:37:40.377
So there are five stages to this. And I actually went through these five stages myself.

00:37:40.717 --> 00:37:45.497
And so that's how I know that, you know, it's not just theoretical,

00:37:45.497 --> 00:37:47.397
it actually is something that works.

00:37:47.557 --> 00:37:50.717
So at the very, very bottom is when you notice.

00:37:50.977 --> 00:37:56.137
And that's what I did. I just started to notice what was happening in my community.

00:37:56.597 --> 00:38:01.097
And in some cases, what wasn't happening? Like I mentioned, like,

00:38:01.397 --> 00:38:05.677
why weren't these decision makers willing to build a second parking garage?

00:38:05.937 --> 00:38:10.137
Like, for me, it was I noticed something that wasn't happening in my community.

00:38:10.477 --> 00:38:15.337
And after you notice, you have this, you respond in some way, right?

00:38:15.737 --> 00:38:20.797
And for some people, responding is talking about it with their neighbors or

00:38:20.797 --> 00:38:28.297
bringing it up at a Little League game or writing a Facebook post in your town's community Facebook.

00:38:29.117 --> 00:38:33.797
Or maybe a letter to the editor. Like you notice something and you have this

00:38:33.797 --> 00:38:37.917
response and you want to sort of test the waters and see what other people think.

00:38:38.457 --> 00:38:43.937
And I like to stop here and say that noticing and responding are a really great

00:38:43.937 --> 00:38:47.197
start, but they do not get results.

00:38:48.529 --> 00:38:53.729
In and of themselves, because you're not really talking to the decision makers yet.

00:38:53.989 --> 00:39:02.549
So after you notice and respond and sort of get some kind of understanding among

00:39:02.549 --> 00:39:06.249
your peers and other people around you, it's time to engage.

00:39:06.489 --> 00:39:08.789
That's the third step up the pyramid.

00:39:09.069 --> 00:39:14.989
And engaging usually involves contacting one of the decision makers involved.

00:39:15.129 --> 00:39:19.569
That could be emailing your select board member, your city council member,

00:39:19.749 --> 00:39:21.989
maybe you call your town manager.

00:39:22.369 --> 00:39:27.309
Depending on the issue it is, maybe it's somebody in the school department that

00:39:27.309 --> 00:39:30.489
you're engaging with, but depending on what you're noticing,

00:39:30.489 --> 00:39:32.789
or somebody on the school board, I mean.

00:39:33.089 --> 00:39:40.889
So that engaging piece, that's when you really start to pull away from the pack,

00:39:41.069 --> 00:39:47.589
so to speak, because very few people in a community engage with their decision makers.

00:39:47.949 --> 00:39:56.169
It's less than 20%. It's like less than 10% of the community will actually reach out and engage.

00:39:56.409 --> 00:40:03.789
So when you do, their response, the person that you reached out to or their

00:40:03.789 --> 00:40:10.029
lack of response, it can speak volumes and it really can make or break what happens next.

00:40:10.309 --> 00:40:16.309
For some people, if they don't hear back, they sort of just let it go and say,

00:40:16.429 --> 00:40:18.169
well, nobody responded, oh well.

00:40:18.889 --> 00:40:23.769
That is not how you get results. So if you don't have a response,

00:40:23.989 --> 00:40:29.749
then you go to the next person and you keep reaching out until somebody responds to you.

00:40:29.929 --> 00:40:37.489
If they do respond, now you've got a dialogue going. And the best way to...

00:40:38.924 --> 00:40:46.084
Work your way up to get to that influential level is to let the people in power

00:40:46.084 --> 00:40:52.264
know that you are interested in solving problems and not creating problems.

00:40:52.504 --> 00:40:57.584
And so the next step up that pyramid is to contribute in some way.

00:40:57.804 --> 00:41:04.764
Maybe you have expertise in an area and you're willing to sit on a committee

00:41:04.764 --> 00:41:07.524
or a commission and volunteer your time.

00:41:07.844 --> 00:41:17.344
Maybe you are willing to put together a community event related around the issue that you care about.

00:41:17.584 --> 00:41:24.444
Maybe you're willing to bring in a speaker to the library to help educate other people,

00:41:24.484 --> 00:41:29.184
but you're doing something, You're contributing to your community in such a

00:41:29.184 --> 00:41:33.404
way that you're building social capital,

00:41:33.404 --> 00:41:37.324
you're building relationships in the community, you're letting people know you're

00:41:37.324 --> 00:41:39.644
a serious person, like I said,

00:41:39.784 --> 00:41:43.244
there to solve problems and not create problems.

00:41:43.244 --> 00:41:49.624
And that area on the pyramid, that contributing, you're really very,

00:41:49.764 --> 00:41:57.204
very close to the top and you start to understand your local government at this point.

00:41:57.204 --> 00:41:59.604
You know who the players are.

00:41:59.804 --> 00:42:02.564
You understand the decision-making process.

00:42:02.904 --> 00:42:08.564
You really start to see the way things work, how the sausage is made.

00:42:08.844 --> 00:42:13.884
And I like to say it's just a slippery slope to the top of the pyramid where

00:42:13.884 --> 00:42:15.644
you really have a lot of influence.

00:42:15.884 --> 00:42:17.784
This is where maybe...

00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:22.979
You start having one-on-one conversations with influential people,

00:42:22.979 --> 00:42:29.359
or you become the chair of a committee and start making recommendations to the

00:42:29.359 --> 00:42:33.099
decision makers that are holding public office and taking votes.

00:42:33.299 --> 00:42:38.999
Or maybe, maybe, maybe you decide like I did, well, heck, I'm a better decision

00:42:38.999 --> 00:42:42.579
maker and I have a master's in public administration. I'm going to run for office

00:42:42.579 --> 00:42:44.759
because those bozos don't know how to do it.

00:42:44.899 --> 00:42:48.359
You know, I mean, that's sort of what happened. And not everybody's going to

00:42:48.359 --> 00:42:54.019
have that kind of experience, but, you know, you never know what will happen

00:42:54.019 --> 00:42:59.339
as you gain more and more confidence going up the influential pyramid.

00:42:59.459 --> 00:43:07.239
So that's just sort of a quick and fast way of the everyday person getting to

00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.439
a point where they can become very influential.

00:43:09.439 --> 00:43:16.079
I will say that with the exception of one person that I created this pyramid

00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.959
by studying, none of them ran for public office except for one.

00:43:22.379 --> 00:43:28.079
All of them just sort of stayed at the contribute level, serving on commissions.

00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:33.059
Serving on committees, volunteering their time, but they didn't really pull

00:43:33.059 --> 00:43:35.839
the trigger to become an elected official.

00:43:35.839 --> 00:43:40.259
So you don't always have to, to have the most influence. Yeah, that's true.

00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:45.679
And, you know, I think, you know, for people that do run like you and me,

00:43:45.919 --> 00:43:50.879
you know, it's almost kind of intuitive that we do those things.

00:43:52.059 --> 00:43:56.899
There's some people that try to skip some steps, but for the most part,

00:43:57.339 --> 00:44:02.839
you know, the people that are successful kind of go through that process.

00:44:02.839 --> 00:44:06.479
And in the vernacular, people say that's paying your dues, right?

00:44:06.899 --> 00:44:15.319
Yes. Yes. So last question I want to ask you is at this stage of your evangelism,

00:44:15.479 --> 00:44:18.959
do you feel more challenged or inspired?

00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:24.079
So i have a

00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.259
lot of faith in people i really do

00:44:27.259 --> 00:44:30.039
i i think i think most of

00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:33.319
the time people make the right decisions but

00:44:33.319 --> 00:44:36.839
there's a there's a big caveat here and

00:44:36.839 --> 00:44:41.919
it really really scares me and i think puts me over into the challenged side

00:44:41.919 --> 00:44:50.219
and that is i am very challenged by the billionaire owners of social media right

00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:55.179
now and the way public discourse is happening online.

00:44:55.979 --> 00:45:01.659
And I think back to like the early days, you know, when we were all just learning

00:45:01.659 --> 00:45:06.719
about Facebook and Twitter and there was sort of this like wink, wink.

00:45:06.839 --> 00:45:12.019
Yeah, I know you're getting some of my data, but you know, I'm learning things.

00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:13.279
I'm connecting with people.

00:45:13.499 --> 00:45:16.999
I'm finding communities online. Like it was kind of worth it.

00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:21.239
It was sort of a cost-benefit analysis there that was pretty equal.

00:45:21.479 --> 00:45:26.819
But things have gotten really, really off the rails in the last few years.

00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:38.199
And the amount of power and control that the social media moguls have now over

00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:41.039
us, over our government.

00:45:41.459 --> 00:45:43.619
Over everything that we do.

00:45:43.839 --> 00:45:50.059
It is beyond, I think, what any normal person could call a fair trade-off.

00:45:50.359 --> 00:45:58.639
And the fact that their business model now relies on an algorithm intended to

00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:05.439
make us feel bad and divide us in order for their conflict entrepreneurship

00:46:05.439 --> 00:46:08.259
to continue to fill their coffers.

00:46:08.259 --> 00:46:11.019
I don't know how we overcome that I

00:46:11.019 --> 00:46:13.859
I really don't I don't I don't know how

00:46:13.859 --> 00:46:17.359
the average person can can

00:46:17.359 --> 00:46:26.199
overcome that and so I'm challenged because I I don't know that people can do

00:46:26.199 --> 00:46:34.699
the right thing if the right thing is so hard to see yeah I I feel you on that but you know.

00:46:36.116 --> 00:46:42.656
I think that the fact that you are out here doing the kind of work and that,

00:46:42.656 --> 00:46:50.956
you know, being able to to guide, I think it's going to triumph.

00:46:50.956 --> 00:46:54.876
Not necessarily triumph is like, oh, we're going to bother social media and

00:46:54.876 --> 00:46:58.416
all this stuff, but get it to a point because people felt the same way about

00:46:58.416 --> 00:46:59.816
television back in the day.

00:47:00.436 --> 00:47:04.676
They just felt that, oh, my God, you know, they got these images and they're

00:47:04.676 --> 00:47:06.396
going to see this stuff and all that.

00:47:06.616 --> 00:47:11.016
And then people figured out how to say, OK, so if this is how you're going to

00:47:11.016 --> 00:47:14.696
play the game, then we'll make those adjustments.

00:47:14.936 --> 00:47:20.556
And I always use sports analogies. And one of my favorite ones is is in basketball.

00:47:21.376 --> 00:47:25.316
When when people started first playing basketball, everybody was on the court.

00:47:25.796 --> 00:47:30.196
Everybody would set up for their shot and take it. then somebody decided,

00:47:30.916 --> 00:47:35.216
hmm, I can't move forward or backwards without dribbling the ball,

00:47:35.336 --> 00:47:38.596
but there's no rule that says I can't go vertical, right?

00:47:38.936 --> 00:47:43.636
And so when people realized that they could jump straight up and shoot the ball

00:47:43.636 --> 00:47:49.036
without somebody standing in their face, it was like, okay, you know,

00:47:49.136 --> 00:47:50.396
and that changed the game.

00:47:50.596 --> 00:47:54.676
And so I think, you know, you are a changemaker.

00:47:55.356 --> 00:47:59.456
And, you know, and people like me that are podcasting, we're changemakers.

00:47:59.716 --> 00:48:04.436
And so as long as there's changemakers out there, I think that we can overcome

00:48:04.436 --> 00:48:06.816
the challenges that we feel.

00:48:06.936 --> 00:48:12.396
But I do feel the overwhelming part that you expressed, and I appreciate you

00:48:12.396 --> 00:48:13.816
being transparent about that.

00:48:14.396 --> 00:48:19.436
So if people want to get involved with your evangelism, if people want to reach

00:48:19.436 --> 00:48:25.096
out to you and do some things because you have a substack and you've written

00:48:25.096 --> 00:48:26.636
a book for elementary kids.

00:48:26.836 --> 00:48:30.396
Tell people how they can get in touch with you and get access to all that.

00:48:30.856 --> 00:48:38.016
I'd say the best thing to do is just come to my website, drnancypearson.com, drnancypearson.com.

00:48:38.236 --> 00:48:43.256
But that's my handle on all the socials. I have my Coffee and Civics on TikTok.

00:48:44.036 --> 00:48:50.936
I'm not as active on Substack anymore. I'm on Instagram. I'm on all the places that I hate.

00:48:53.136 --> 00:48:57.516
So go to my website and all my information is there.

00:48:57.816 --> 00:49:03.816
You can email me, get in touch with me. I usually have links to where I'm going

00:49:03.816 --> 00:49:07.096
to be, but I just did a workshop last night.

00:49:07.176 --> 00:49:10.236
I don't have anything lined up for the next month or two, so I don't have any

00:49:10.236 --> 00:49:14.836
events lined up right now, but But that's usually where things are most up to

00:49:14.836 --> 00:49:16.536
date. Yeah. Dr. Nancy Pearson.

00:49:16.916 --> 00:49:22.556
Well, again, Dr. Nancy Pearson, I greatly appreciate you coming on the podcast.

00:49:22.556 --> 00:49:25.016
And I greatly appreciate the work that you do.

00:49:26.196 --> 00:49:31.436
And likewise, I did not I did not put any pressure on you prior to it,

00:49:31.516 --> 00:49:34.516
but there is some significance to your name.

00:49:34.676 --> 00:49:39.536
You are literally the third person named Pearson that has been a guest on the show.

00:49:39.736 --> 00:49:46.256
And the other two Pearsons have been have been dynamic so much that they both are attorneys.

00:49:46.456 --> 00:49:51.396
So I created a a segment for them to come on and do like some legal stuff.

00:49:51.396 --> 00:49:56.156
So, you know, when I saw another Pearson I could get on the show, I was like, yay.

00:49:57.616 --> 00:50:01.956
It seems like everybody named Pearson is, you know, doing some things in this

00:50:01.956 --> 00:50:05.376
country. So you have definitely lived up to that status.

00:50:05.576 --> 00:50:08.636
And so, again, I greatly appreciate you coming on.

00:50:09.396 --> 00:50:12.896
Thank you, Eric. It was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

00:50:12.956 --> 00:50:17.116
I love your show. All right. All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:50:37.043 --> 00:50:41.423
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for next guest, Tania Anderson.

00:50:42.203 --> 00:50:45.523
Tania Fernandez Anderson was born in prior Cape Verde.

00:50:45.923 --> 00:50:49.643
At the age of 10, she immigrated from Cape Verde to Roxbury,

00:50:50.063 --> 00:50:55.823
two places, she says, formed the foundation of her unwavering commitment to the community.

00:50:56.243 --> 00:50:59.823
Tania was elected to the Boston City Council on November 2nd,

00:51:00.043 --> 00:51:06.303
2021, becoming the first African immigrant and Muslim American elected to the Boston City Council.

00:51:06.303 --> 00:51:11.023
She represented District 7, consisting of Roxbury, Dorchester,

00:51:11.243 --> 00:51:15.943
Fenway, and part of the South End until July 4th, 2025.

00:51:16.923 --> 00:51:22.583
Tania was executive director of Bodong Geneva Main Street and has been a parent

00:51:22.583 --> 00:51:27.143
advocate with the Boston Public Schools, a program manager for a homeless women's

00:51:27.143 --> 00:51:30.003
shelter, a business owner, and a child social worker.

00:51:30.003 --> 00:51:36.243
She has also been a foster mom to 17 kids while raising two biological children.

00:51:36.743 --> 00:51:40.903
The equitable distribution of mental health services has always been near to

00:51:40.903 --> 00:51:44.603
Tania’s heart, which is why she founded NOAA's Advocate.

00:51:45.003 --> 00:51:50.483
NOAA's Advocate is a trauma-informed mental health program that serves underrepresented communities.

00:51:52.483 --> 00:51:56.383
Underrepresented communities, I'm sorry. Tania is also the founder of a program

00:51:56.383 --> 00:52:00.483
that supports AtRift Youth through theater, fashion, and art.

00:52:00.683 --> 00:52:05.743
The shows and performances routinely sell out the historic Strand Theater in Dorchester.

00:52:06.243 --> 00:52:11.063
Tania attended the John D. O'Brien High School of Mathematics and Science in

00:52:11.063 --> 00:52:13.343
Roxbury and Springfield College.

00:52:14.123 --> 00:52:18.283
She is the proud mother of a U.S. Marine and a young emerging artist.

00:52:18.523 --> 00:52:23.083
In her spare time, Tania enjoys sewing gowns and playwriting.

00:52:23.943 --> 00:52:27.963
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:52:27.963 --> 00:52:31.403
on this podcast, Tania Anderson.

00:52:42.463 --> 00:52:48.283
All right, Tania Anderson, how you doing, sister? You hanging in there? You doing good?

00:52:49.143 --> 00:52:53.103
I'll praise you to God, and it's Tania. What did I say?

00:52:53.543 --> 00:52:58.423
Tania? Tania. Okay. You said Tania. Tania. Okay. All right. Thank you. How are you, Erik?

00:52:59.223 --> 00:53:02.023
I'm doing good, Tania. Thank you. Thank you for that.

00:53:02.823 --> 00:53:09.403
And, you know, I appreciate my guests when they correct me on the pronunciation of their names.

00:53:09.943 --> 00:53:15.703
And I've been saying Tania because I have a cousin that spells the name the same way.

00:53:15.883 --> 00:53:20.203
But for some reason, I try to be phonetic with that. So thank you.

00:53:21.663 --> 00:53:24.723
Anyway, I'm really, really glad that you decided to come on.

00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:31.580
I have seen you in action when you were on the Boston city council.

00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:38.760
And at that point I wanted to get you on and I was finally able to get you.

00:53:39.500 --> 00:53:48.120
And it is not the most ideal circumstance, but I I'm glad that you accepted the invitation.

00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:52.380
And so we're going to, we're going to conduct this interview the way that I

00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:55.860
do all everybody else. We're going to do an icebreaker first.

00:53:56.900 --> 00:54:00.000
And usually the icebreaker is the first

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:02.900
thing is a quote so i want you to respond to

00:54:02.900 --> 00:54:05.680
this quote i am not a perfect servant i am

00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:09.180
a public servant doing my best against the odds as

00:54:09.180 --> 00:54:14.480
i develop and serve be patient god is not finished with me yet what does that

00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:20.520
quote mean to you you know that human beings as human beings were imperfect

00:54:20.520 --> 00:54:28.140
and the process of serving is a humble one and it's a one of, it's evolutionary.

00:54:28.620 --> 00:54:36.220
So that this person is still learning, be patient, mean, be compassionate with

00:54:36.220 --> 00:54:39.060
me when I make a mistake. Yeah.

00:54:39.700 --> 00:54:43.400
All right. So I'd normally do this thing called 20 questions,

00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:47.560
but because of some of the conversations we had prior to this,

00:54:47.820 --> 00:54:49.820
I'm not going to let you pick a number.

00:54:49.940 --> 00:54:54.400
I'm going to pick a number for you because if you pick a number,

00:54:54.420 --> 00:54:56.360
it might be a question that you can't answer.

00:54:56.580 --> 00:55:00.120
So I'm a, I'm a pick the number for you. And since nobody picks,

00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:02.600
make the best use of your time, let's go.

00:55:02.860 --> 00:55:06.100
So I'm a pick, I'm a pick, I'm a pick number one for you.

00:55:06.460 --> 00:55:08.920
Okay. Cause nobody ever picks one.

00:55:10.820 --> 00:55:14.960
So do you think voting is enough?

00:55:16.402 --> 00:55:25.922
Of course not. You know, when I first got elected, I quickly realized that it

00:55:25.922 --> 00:55:28.182
wasn't just about telling people to vote.

00:55:28.322 --> 00:55:30.542
It wasn't just about telling them why they should vote.

00:55:30.782 --> 00:55:36.542
It wasn't just about representation, but rather the education and access.

00:55:37.022 --> 00:55:43.482
So the education, so that when they have the access, they could actually understand

00:55:43.482 --> 00:55:46.122
how to maneuver, navigate the resources.

00:55:46.402 --> 00:55:51.942
So it's not enough to just vote, but understanding the resources and then understanding

00:55:51.942 --> 00:55:54.002
how to navigate them and then having access.

00:55:55.102 --> 00:55:58.122
Yeah. So let's, you know,

00:55:59.062 --> 00:56:08.842
one of the things that you have highlighted and I agree with is that most people

00:56:08.842 --> 00:56:13.462
don't really understand the people that serve, right?

00:56:14.282 --> 00:56:17.922
They don't, they don't, they, you know, somebody pops up and says,

00:56:18.042 --> 00:56:20.942
hey, I'm running for this office, vote for me.

00:56:21.402 --> 00:56:26.962
You know, some people have some traction in the community, but other people just kind of show up.

00:56:27.182 --> 00:56:30.382
And the black community, especially with white candidates, you know,

00:56:30.502 --> 00:56:35.182
on Sunday, we'll get to see a whole bunch of folks that we've never met before.

00:56:35.842 --> 00:56:37.702
And we got to make a decision.

00:56:38.602 --> 00:56:45.562
So talk to me about you. You came from Cape Verde, is that right?

00:56:46.602 --> 00:56:54.022
Yes. Yeah. And so you were like a teenager when you came to the United States or?

00:56:54.662 --> 00:56:59.922
I was 10. You were 10. All right. So talk to me about how did somebody from

00:56:59.922 --> 00:57:06.042
Cape Verde get involved in American politics? Talk about that journey.

00:57:07.364 --> 00:57:10.344
I would say that when you're

00:57:10.344 --> 00:57:13.944
10 and you immigrate you and i

00:57:13.944 --> 00:57:17.324
i mean i'm i'm going to be 47 so

00:57:17.324 --> 00:57:24.344
i think people forget that because whatever black don't crack and i don't but

00:57:24.344 --> 00:57:29.864
how does an african girl immigrate to america to a different continent and you

00:57:29.864 --> 00:57:32.284
know assimilate enough or to become interested in her civics.

00:57:32.464 --> 00:57:34.064
I mean, it's now my culture.

00:57:34.304 --> 00:57:41.104
I am literally, by definition, African-American because I'm African and American.

00:57:41.664 --> 00:57:46.184
And so what the culture, the people.

00:57:46.844 --> 00:57:55.304
My rhythm, my education, everything that I have learned and love and endure

00:57:55.304 --> 00:57:59.264
and nurture is African-American.

00:57:59.924 --> 00:58:07.704
That's my culture. That's who I am. So naturally, I grew up in academy homes, projects in Roxbury.

00:58:08.144 --> 00:58:16.084
And you see the issues. I think by default, I worked in public health for about 23 years.

00:58:16.404 --> 00:58:23.064
And you're serving the entire time. And then you don't know enough because I

00:58:23.064 --> 00:58:28.644
was one of those kids that was not given a green card early on.

00:58:29.264 --> 00:58:32.624
And so I got it as an adult by way of marriage.

00:58:32.904 --> 00:58:39.544
And so I don't, I didn't necessarily understand much of civics until I started

00:58:39.544 --> 00:58:45.264
working for a nonprofit that, you know, worked a lot on small businesses.

00:58:45.764 --> 00:58:49.504
There I became interested in, you know, how things were shaped,

00:58:49.884 --> 00:58:55.084
the protocols and the policies that shape the resources.

00:58:55.644 --> 00:59:03.504
And so when the opportunity opened up, I said, maybe this is a job that I could

00:59:03.504 --> 00:59:07.424
do and really, really help my people.

00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:15.080
Yeah. So did you, when you decided to say, okay, well, I'm going to run for

00:59:15.080 --> 00:59:19.160
the city council, what did you know about city government?

00:59:19.600 --> 00:59:24.540
What did you, and why did you think that was a vehicle beyond the work that

00:59:24.540 --> 00:59:28.920
you were doing with nonprofits to help the people in your area?

00:59:30.140 --> 00:59:35.820
Well, I had a family member who had ran for office, was already a rep and then

00:59:35.820 --> 00:59:41.540
ran for DA. So immediately, he asked me to help him on his campaign.

00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:47.480
And just by being on this campaign and helping, I learned a lot about,

00:59:47.780 --> 00:59:51.480
oh, this is what a public official is. You run for office.

00:59:51.740 --> 00:59:55.220
This is what the universe is. Or this is what cutting turf is.

00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:00.720
And I learned a lot about what that meant. And then I wasn't really interested in it.

01:00:00.720 --> 01:00:04.400
It wasn't until, again,

01:00:04.660 --> 01:00:07.880
when I really started looking at nonprofit and

01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:10.900
resources and the economy and how it impacted us

01:00:10.900 --> 01:00:14.560
that I became more interested because you would look

01:00:14.560 --> 01:00:20.680
at the lack of resources and how systemically things were already sort of threaded

01:00:20.680 --> 01:00:29.100
into the fabric of our communities and the different disparities between certain

01:00:29.100 --> 01:00:31.160
communities. and where I lived.

01:00:31.560 --> 01:00:35.540
And so, of course, you become interested because you start saying that's not fair.

01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:43.540
I think immediately, though, it's your ego because you think, I can help. I can serve.

01:00:44.160 --> 01:00:50.120
But that's not the case. You hopefully eventually have to have a come to Jesus

01:00:50.120 --> 01:00:54.780
moment where you realize, I need to discover more about the issues.

01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:57.940
I need to learn more about the people that I serve. and to

01:00:57.940 --> 01:01:00.840
be a servant is truly you think you're

01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:04.040
a leader but you are just a servant in disguise

01:01:04.040 --> 01:01:07.040
so it's humbling you start

01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:10.960
understanding that you need people you start understanding that there is no

01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:16.800
ego there can't be arrogance and there can't be any type of you know I want

01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:22.860
to reprofist because I can help no no no we as a collective need to do this

01:01:22.860 --> 01:01:26.640
together and it has to be that way to serve that's,

01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:28.640
Pretty much, I hope that answers your question.

01:01:28.740 --> 01:01:31.980
That's all I knew about it. It was about on the campaign side.

01:01:32.300 --> 01:01:37.760
And then I had to literally Google and research what is a city councilor?

01:01:38.180 --> 01:01:39.620
What does the council do?

01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:43.680
Branches of government. What is a policy? What are codes?

01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:49.340
I had to literally Google all that stuff while I'm on the forum and I'm knocking on doors.

01:01:49.580 --> 01:01:52.420
I knew that I could change rules, right?

01:01:52.520 --> 01:01:56.140
In my head, there were rules that I was changing as a legislator.

01:01:56.140 --> 01:02:00.620
And once I got the grasp of it then I really believed that.

01:02:01.891 --> 01:02:08.551
Needed to humble myself and ask God to help me and purify my heart to be a true

01:02:08.551 --> 01:02:10.231
servant and not make it about me.

01:02:11.131 --> 01:02:13.891
Yeah. And for those people who

01:02:13.891 --> 01:02:20.611
tend to be good at that job, that's the process you have to go through.

01:02:20.691 --> 01:02:25.971
I explain to people all the time, all people that run for office have an ego

01:02:25.971 --> 01:02:31.111
to the sense that they believe that they can convince people to put their trust

01:02:31.111 --> 01:02:33.351
in them to to serve in that position.

01:02:33.711 --> 01:02:38.011
And you, but what I say is most people look at ego in the negative sense of

01:02:38.011 --> 01:02:40.451
being arrogant, overconfident and all that stuff.

01:02:40.791 --> 01:02:45.391
But ego is you, you, you have to have a belief in yourself, one,

01:02:45.631 --> 01:02:47.891
that you can make that difference.

01:02:48.151 --> 01:02:53.471
And then two, to have the confidence to go before people that some,

01:02:53.651 --> 01:02:59.251
you may know, but the majority of them, you don't to convince them at least 51% of them,

01:02:59.511 --> 01:03:05.031
to say, yeah, that's the person we want in this position at this time, right?

01:03:05.391 --> 01:03:09.191
And I think that's important for people to know.

01:03:09.311 --> 01:03:14.251
So I don't, and I really appreciate you being transparent in the fact that you

01:03:14.251 --> 01:03:17.891
were, as you were running for the office, you were learning more about it.

01:03:18.251 --> 01:03:23.131
Because one of the things that I realized when I was running was that I had

01:03:23.131 --> 01:03:25.551
to educate people about the position.

01:03:25.791 --> 01:03:29.171
I literally had, when I was running for state rep, people were asking me,

01:03:29.271 --> 01:03:32.511
are you going to go to Washington and be up there with Congressman Benny Thompson?

01:03:32.651 --> 01:03:36.431
I said, no, no, I'm going to be right downtown in Jackson, that big building with the dome in it.

01:03:37.231 --> 01:03:41.211
That's why I'm going to be working, you know? And people appreciated that.

01:03:41.411 --> 01:03:50.431
It was like, okay, so you kind of have to give a civics lesson to your own constituents at times.

01:03:50.671 --> 01:03:53.551
So yeah, Yeah, I think, you know, I think that's cool.

01:03:53.591 --> 01:03:57.631
And I think that that's and then the other piece that you talked about was,

01:03:57.931 --> 01:04:02.931
you know, the people, because in order to have a servant's heart,

01:04:02.971 --> 01:04:04.671
you have to have a love for people.

01:04:05.431 --> 01:04:11.671
And we had a mayor in Jackson who who once said that and I'm paraphrasing.

01:04:11.811 --> 01:04:17.591
He said, you can't do this job, if you don't have a love for the people, do you agree with that?

01:04:18.870 --> 01:04:22.450
You can't do this job if you have a love for the people. Even if you don't like

01:04:22.450 --> 01:04:26.810
people like myself, you can certainly, you certainly have to love people.

01:04:27.090 --> 01:04:32.010
And I absolutely love the people that I represented and still do.

01:04:32.730 --> 01:04:36.270
You have to want, you know, the best for them.

01:04:36.550 --> 01:04:41.590
You have to believe that they deserve it and you have to have a level of respect

01:04:41.590 --> 01:04:43.810
for them. Absolutely. Yeah.

01:04:44.770 --> 01:04:49.890
And, you know, when for those of y'all listening, when she said,

01:04:50.030 --> 01:04:56.310
I don't like people, you know, an introvert will say that because I know that

01:04:56.310 --> 01:04:57.490
you you're an introvert.

01:04:57.670 --> 01:05:00.130
I'm an introvert, too. My dad was amazed.

01:05:00.670 --> 01:05:05.850
How do you know I'm an introvert? Oh, well, just you said that somewhere.

01:05:06.090 --> 01:05:08.570
You publicly said that. Oh, yeah.

01:05:08.990 --> 01:05:14.850
Yeah. Yeah. And but I am, too. And my dad was amazed because he was like,

01:05:14.850 --> 01:05:18.370
he said, I can't believe that you not only got into politics,

01:05:18.510 --> 01:05:23.650
but you were successful in it because one, you're a natural introvert.

01:05:23.750 --> 01:05:26.830
And then two, you have a, you're allergic to BS.

01:05:27.950 --> 01:05:33.190
And I said, so he was just amazed. How did you navigate through all that?

01:05:33.350 --> 01:05:37.630
So I guess I'll ask you that question. How did you, when you got on the council,

01:05:37.630 --> 01:05:39.130
how did you navigate to BS?

01:05:39.750 --> 01:05:44.150
I don't think I did a good job navigating through the BS.

01:05:44.750 --> 01:05:48.290
I think I came on too strong, too hard, too fast.

01:05:49.450 --> 01:05:52.690
And, you know, I wouldn't be me if I did otherwise.

01:05:53.130 --> 01:05:56.610
So a lot of people were saying, you know, if she had guidance,

01:05:56.750 --> 01:06:00.670
if she had a mentor, if she had, if she, you know, if she built a network,

01:06:00.670 --> 01:06:02.210
I did none of those things.

01:06:02.210 --> 01:06:07.310
The network that I built was with my constituent, and I actually have an advisory

01:06:07.310 --> 01:06:11.950
council I had, still volunteer with them on the weekends to do civic stuff.

01:06:12.810 --> 01:06:17.790
But, and they, you know, we worked on policy. It wasn't about me.

01:06:17.950 --> 01:06:19.970
It wasn't about them coaching me.

01:06:20.330 --> 01:06:25.410
At some point, it became about me, right? Like, obviously, they were supportive many times.

01:06:25.410 --> 01:06:32.370
But for the most part, yeah, the relationships that I had, I think,

01:06:32.590 --> 01:06:36.730
for example, people are often asking me about Meru.

01:06:38.152 --> 01:06:43.292
She like you? Do I like her? I don't have an opinion. I don't feel yes,

01:06:43.572 --> 01:06:50.052
dislike or like, even if she has done things that people say seem to be vindictive.

01:06:50.312 --> 01:06:56.292
I still don't have any emotional reaction to that because politics is a funny thing.

01:06:56.452 --> 01:07:01.872
And then you realize that she's no different from her predecessors in terms

01:07:01.872 --> 01:07:05.072
of, you know, moving politically, maneuvering this thing.

01:07:05.632 --> 01:07:10.452
And I am, I was not qualified. I wasn't ready. And I didn't have,

01:07:11.192 --> 01:07:15.332
you know, the politics part of me to maneuver all of that.

01:07:15.672 --> 01:07:20.372
So the relationship that I had with her was, if you, if you BS me,

01:07:20.632 --> 01:07:22.312
I'm going to take it to the people.

01:07:22.932 --> 01:07:28.752
And so it worked for a little bit. And, you know, it worked every time until it didn't.

01:07:29.252 --> 01:07:32.632
So that was my style.

01:07:32.992 --> 01:07:36.792
It wasn't speak the truth, like tell the truth, don't lie to the people,

01:07:37.232 --> 01:07:40.872
don't coddle systemically like racist practices.

01:07:41.652 --> 01:07:46.752
Just, you know, don't BS. Just do what you're supposed to do.

01:07:46.932 --> 01:07:50.612
And I did that with my colleagues. I did that with the mayor.

01:07:50.892 --> 01:07:52.012
I did that with everybody.

01:07:53.352 --> 01:07:56.712
It got me knocked upside the head several times, I would say.

01:07:57.392 --> 01:08:00.532
Well, I mean, but that's part of the journey.

01:08:01.112 --> 01:08:06.052
You're not the first and you're not going to be the last that experiences that.

01:08:06.472 --> 01:08:09.652
You know, I tell the story all the time. When I first got in office,

01:08:10.212 --> 01:08:14.752
my machine wasn't even working and I was already speaking against bills and stuff.

01:08:15.552 --> 01:08:19.512
You know so i mean that's that's this part of it when you come in and see,

01:08:20.772 --> 01:08:27.472
you know as another guest i just interviewed you know it was like when when

01:08:27.472 --> 01:08:32.932
she got on the council she she had been an activist and and and then she got

01:08:32.932 --> 01:08:34.432
on the council and then she realized,

01:08:35.112 --> 01:08:38.572
these people are not as smart as i thought they were you know what i'm saying

01:08:38.572 --> 01:08:44.212
you know so that's a realization when you look at people you see them on tv all the time or whatever,

01:08:45.512 --> 01:08:47.552
It's a dynamic thing.

01:08:47.892 --> 01:08:51.332
It's more than just, it's a dynamic construct. It's not just,

01:08:51.792 --> 01:08:53.152
you know, they're not as smart.

01:08:53.512 --> 01:08:55.492
They're moving too fast, so they didn't prepare.

01:08:56.012 --> 01:09:01.392
They haven't taken the time to learn Robert's Rules. This one has a lot of biases,

01:09:01.392 --> 01:09:04.212
but doesn't want to be racist and is working toward doing differently.

01:09:04.812 --> 01:09:08.852
This one has all the qualifications, but is scared. She wants to be the next

01:09:08.852 --> 01:09:11.112
big thing, so she's not going to vote the right way.

01:09:11.692 --> 01:09:16.172
This one is also, like, you know, there's all of these components to...

01:09:17.727 --> 01:09:22.487
And then, you know, what it sounds like is you get put on the spotlight,

01:09:22.487 --> 01:09:27.487
you get put under the camera, and people that are watching are like, oh, what a bonehead.

01:09:27.607 --> 01:09:29.547
What did she just say? Or what did he just say?

01:09:30.147 --> 01:09:34.127
And they don't realize that everything is a quick, you know, ad hoc.

01:09:34.947 --> 01:09:44.247
And the good legislator has sat down for hours every day if possible to do their homework and study.

01:09:44.727 --> 01:09:50.087
Because you, you know, again Back to the navigating resources In order for you

01:09:50.087 --> 01:09:55.567
to represent a body of people You have to understand the rules In order for

01:09:55.567 --> 01:09:58.327
you to maneuver that conversation If you don't know,

01:09:58.507 --> 01:10:00.827
say you don't know And then you research it,

01:10:01.467 --> 01:10:06.587
I've seen people do that in a real Like in a kind of like superfluous way And it's like.

01:10:07.367 --> 01:10:09.847
Yeah, whatever You're not going to read it You're not going to get back to them

01:10:09.847 --> 01:10:12.707
But there are people that,

01:10:12.887 --> 01:10:16.167
you know will pretend to know and then

01:10:16.167 --> 01:10:18.987
that sounds dumb in itself because then people know better

01:10:18.987 --> 01:10:21.807
these you know especially the new generation you know

01:10:21.807 --> 01:10:25.127
they're smart as hell they they have information at their fingertip and

01:10:25.127 --> 01:10:28.827
you can't fool them they understand more there

01:10:28.827 --> 01:10:32.007
may be a lot of you know like mentally like social like mental

01:10:32.007 --> 01:10:35.447
health stuff going on where they you know

01:10:35.447 --> 01:10:38.267
we they don't suppress it as we did right so

01:10:38.267 --> 01:10:41.107
it seems like their issues are more heightened but no these

01:10:41.107 --> 01:10:44.907
kids can navigate things at a quick rate and they're

01:10:44.907 --> 01:10:48.907
smarter i think socially politically and

01:10:48.907 --> 01:10:51.747
emotionally it's just that they don't hide it they're not

01:10:51.747 --> 01:10:56.067
as you know depraved as we were coming up where we're like you know we just

01:10:56.067 --> 01:11:01.567
work our way to toughness but anyway i i i'm uh going a little bit off track

01:11:01.567 --> 01:11:06.027
but the point is that it's not just what you see in the moment it's not like

01:11:06.027 --> 01:11:09.767
someone is dumb or whatever sometimes they're playing with you too right sometimes

01:11:09.767 --> 01:11:10.967
they're just telling you,

01:11:11.447 --> 01:11:15.767
that they don't know a thing, or they're pretending to not answer and they're

01:11:15.767 --> 01:11:19.247
scurrying around it, but they actually do know, and they're not dumb,

01:11:19.287 --> 01:11:22.247
they're playing dumb. So there's some of that too.

01:11:22.807 --> 01:11:33.287
Yeah. So being an African-American woman in that position, what was the biggest

01:11:33.287 --> 01:11:35.987
challenge you had to deal with?

01:11:36.547 --> 01:11:43.447
I think on many levels, like there's, there's the.

01:11:44.887 --> 01:11:48.027
Know in hiring even your own staff

01:11:48.027 --> 01:11:51.147
having to like not necessarily respect

01:11:51.147 --> 01:11:54.967
you because you're a black woman and your authority

01:11:54.967 --> 01:11:58.147
is not authority or you know you being questioned

01:11:58.147 --> 01:12:01.467
there's the part about walking in a building and

01:12:01.467 --> 01:12:04.787
everyone does the potential in boston they're very good at

01:12:04.787 --> 01:12:07.447
doing the nicey nice every you know

01:12:07.447 --> 01:12:10.747
in boston everybody's like counselor counselor counselor counselor

01:12:10.747 --> 01:12:13.547
and i just couldn't stand it i just wish people would just

01:12:13.547 --> 01:12:17.007
say hey t what up whatever

01:12:17.007 --> 01:12:21.027
because you it's

01:12:21.027 --> 01:12:24.387
good just when they think that you know you

01:12:24.387 --> 01:12:27.587
are how adjacent you are to the mayor and then

01:12:27.587 --> 01:12:30.487
when you disagree with the mayor they all work for the mayor then that

01:12:30.487 --> 01:12:33.227
becomes a thing and it's definitely because you know

01:12:33.227 --> 01:12:37.087
they definitely treat you as a black woman differently white counselors

01:12:37.087 --> 01:12:40.607
coming in have access immediately because

01:12:40.607 --> 01:12:43.307
the people that historically have been

01:12:43.307 --> 01:12:48.007
there for years that understand the resources and how to navigate or connect

01:12:48.007 --> 01:12:55.207
with stuff where everything is I saw public works and public facility immediately

01:12:55.207 --> 01:13:02.847
meet with the new white counselors in their office connecting them to stuff you're told one thing,

01:13:02.967 --> 01:13:07.367
you can do one thing but then you'll see your white colleagues get away with other things.

01:13:08.007 --> 01:13:10.787
The list goes on and on and on.

01:13:11.147 --> 01:13:17.907
When things happen in your neighborhood, you see the mayor responding one way

01:13:17.907 --> 01:13:19.587
to the white counselor's constituents

01:13:19.587 --> 01:13:23.667
than she does to your Black constituents in your neighborhood.

01:13:24.187 --> 01:13:27.167
And it doesn't matter if she's a woman of color. She knows that she is in the

01:13:27.167 --> 01:13:30.587
same system and that she has to play by the rules too.

01:13:30.827 --> 01:13:37.087
So the list goes on and on. I can't begin to tell you enough, But I never felt like...

01:13:38.397 --> 01:13:41.797
A black woman and this is so hard and

01:13:41.797 --> 01:13:44.797
i'm a victim i didn't feel that way i

01:13:44.797 --> 01:13:47.777
think it was the same not ego but the same belief

01:13:47.777 --> 01:13:50.617
that i can and i will

01:13:50.617 --> 01:13:53.337
by god i will if god allows me i

01:13:53.337 --> 01:13:56.057
will i can and god allows me i will

01:13:56.057 --> 01:13:58.917
and if i can't i will learn and if

01:13:58.917 --> 01:14:02.157
i don't learn fast enough that's okay and try

01:14:02.157 --> 01:14:05.317
to be kind to myself in that process but that

01:14:05.317 --> 01:14:09.197
that's that's that's every black every African-American woman

01:14:09.197 --> 01:14:13.017
in America that she has

01:14:13.017 --> 01:14:16.617
to train herself to be kind to herself to

01:14:16.617 --> 01:14:21.077
forgive herself along the way because the pressures are real the visceral trauma

01:14:21.077 --> 01:14:27.117
real and that every single day issues that we go through discriminatory like

01:14:27.117 --> 01:14:32.157
experiences that we go through adds on pressure we're literally walking with

01:14:32.157 --> 01:14:35.957
like you know induced stress every single day,

01:14:36.457 --> 01:14:38.717
but we, we get it done.

01:14:38.917 --> 01:14:43.797
We, we make it happen. And it's not fair that the load is so heavy,

01:14:43.797 --> 01:14:50.077
but you can only make it if you decide that God is in control and that's okay.

01:14:50.657 --> 01:14:56.677
That this journey may be tough and, but that's okay. It's all part of it and

01:14:56.677 --> 01:14:58.437
be grateful for all of it. Yeah.

01:14:59.477 --> 01:15:03.397
So you said the journey could be tough.

01:15:03.597 --> 01:15:10.997
And right now you are in what you self-described as your tough climate phase.

01:15:11.317 --> 01:15:14.537
And I'm kind of paraphrasing, but you did say something to that.

01:15:14.577 --> 01:15:18.097
No, that sounds great, but I never said that. But, okay, I get what you're saying.

01:15:18.437 --> 01:15:21.697
Yeah, when you said something about, somebody asked you a question,

01:15:21.817 --> 01:15:23.677
you said the climate is tough right now.

01:15:24.177 --> 01:15:27.117
And so that's why I was kind of paraphrasing that. Climate?

01:15:27.797 --> 01:15:38.237
Okay. Yeah, that was the word. yeah yeah on james on jimmy jimmy yeah um yeah

01:15:38.237 --> 01:15:41.257
yeah we're going i i you know so anyway.

01:15:42.961 --> 01:15:46.441
I think he said it and then I said it, but it didn't feel like something I would

01:15:46.441 --> 01:15:49.281
say. That's why I said that. But yeah, I remember. I got you.

01:15:49.561 --> 01:15:55.521
All right. So on September the 5th of this year, you said everything that happened

01:15:55.521 --> 01:15:57.301
is for a reason. Everything.

01:15:58.081 --> 01:16:01.681
Upon further reflection, what did you mean by that?

01:16:02.141 --> 01:16:06.461
Oh, yes. That was on the media. i everything

01:16:06.461 --> 01:16:10.461
that happens is for a reason meaning that

01:16:10.461 --> 01:16:13.461
when things are good most people i

01:16:13.461 --> 01:16:19.861
think we're like human beings we are inclined to be grateful for things when

01:16:19.861 --> 01:16:24.341
they feel good when they are easy when it's smooth sailing when the climate

01:16:24.341 --> 01:16:33.281
is you know easy sailing but when When things get tough, then we start questioning,

01:16:33.801 --> 01:16:35.721
and there's more to the story, right?

01:16:35.861 --> 01:16:40.661
And I was very transparent with you that I will not speak about the case until

01:16:40.661 --> 01:16:43.321
a postponed time, one day, maybe.

01:16:44.481 --> 01:16:47.221
But there that that you know you

01:16:47.221 --> 01:16:50.221
can ask yourself a thousand questions about you know how this

01:16:50.221 --> 01:16:52.841
happened where what you know where am i in the state of

01:16:52.841 --> 01:16:55.681
things but in order for you to be

01:16:55.681 --> 01:16:58.741
truly grateful for your journey

01:16:58.741 --> 01:17:02.121
you have to accept every bit

01:17:02.121 --> 01:17:05.221
of it the good the bad what you

01:17:05.221 --> 01:17:09.601
actually did what you didn't what others

01:17:09.601 --> 01:17:12.721
did but now is on you it doesn't matter

01:17:12.721 --> 01:17:18.981
that you take full you take a full account of all of it good bad and you are

01:17:18.981 --> 01:17:24.881
grateful for it and that's what i meant that i am grateful for every bit of

01:17:24.881 --> 01:17:30.301
it every moment and it's been truly cathartic to go through this experience.

01:17:30.821 --> 01:17:37.481
And I pray that I learn at the end of the journey that I understand the purpose

01:17:37.481 --> 01:17:40.721
and that I continue to always be grateful to God for everything.

01:17:41.421 --> 01:17:48.581
Yeah. So when you left the Boston City Council, you said, I leave this chamber

01:17:48.581 --> 01:17:51.861
the way I entered, with a big smile, grounded,

01:17:52.301 --> 01:17:56.881
God willing, humble, faithful, not in the system, but in the people.

01:17:57.221 --> 01:18:03.641
I will still be fighting, not from this chamber, but from the community, with you, with God.

01:18:04.141 --> 01:18:09.901
So my question to you is, how will the new chapter of Tania Anderson's public service start?

01:18:11.426 --> 01:18:17.446
I think I have to wait for God to guide me, for God to show me.

01:18:17.586 --> 01:18:25.266
I don't have that answer. I promise you, I have realized that I could be,

01:18:25.566 --> 01:18:27.626
potentially, people would tell me I am.

01:18:27.786 --> 01:18:34.546
I had a functioning individual, so I perform well at anything I start, God willing.

01:18:35.006 --> 01:18:41.826
But that's because I put God first. So in this moment, I would like to seek

01:18:41.826 --> 01:18:45.586
God's guidance and understanding exactly what my next step is.

01:18:45.866 --> 01:18:53.126
But I can never, I know deep inside that my truest self is to always be kind

01:18:53.126 --> 01:19:00.106
and serve and help and be a part of what God wants us to do as a community, as one human community.

01:19:01.566 --> 01:19:07.326
So I say I will fight, you know, not from the chambers, from the outside,

01:19:07.726 --> 01:19:10.126
with God, but I don't know what that looks like.

01:19:10.846 --> 01:19:15.146
Yeah. And that's understandable. So I want to close out. Well,

01:19:15.246 --> 01:19:17.146
first of all, let me make a qualification to you.

01:19:17.846 --> 01:19:21.586
Most of the people, well, I should say all the people that have been guests

01:19:21.586 --> 01:19:25.926
of my show are smarter than me. So if you've had any doubts that you're highly

01:19:25.926 --> 01:19:30.486
functional, I can testify that you are.

01:19:30.566 --> 01:19:34.646
I'm still discovering whether or not I'm going to put that on you.

01:19:35.726 --> 01:19:41.346
But to close out, what do you see as the future for District 7,

01:19:41.366 --> 01:19:42.786
the area that you represented?

01:19:43.606 --> 01:19:51.686
Even though you grew up in Roxbury, you're very protective of the district as

01:19:51.686 --> 01:19:53.586
a whole and not just focused in.

01:19:54.126 --> 01:19:58.026
Because a lot of times, you know, when those of us are elected,

01:19:58.546 --> 01:20:02.386
especially if those of my friends that were elected in areas that they grew

01:20:02.386 --> 01:20:06.726
up in, they were very, very protective about their particular subdivision,

01:20:06.866 --> 01:20:08.086
their particular community.

01:20:08.626 --> 01:20:11.986
And then everybody else just kind of got some of the benefits from that.

01:20:11.986 --> 01:20:16.326
But you, you know, in just the conversation I had with you, you wanted to make

01:20:16.326 --> 01:20:19.446
sure it was clear that it was all of District 7 that you represented.

01:20:19.926 --> 01:20:25.566
So what would you like to see happen? What do you see the future of District 7 going forward?

01:20:26.426 --> 01:20:32.346
Well, first of all, I'd like to say for you that it is a sign of intelligence

01:20:32.346 --> 01:20:35.766
to admit that you know nothing. So good for you.

01:20:38.146 --> 01:20:44.726
Contrary to what you were joking about as far as District 7 it's,

01:20:45.878 --> 01:20:49.158
It pains my heart when I hear constituents tell me that,

01:20:49.738 --> 01:20:56.658
you know, especially with what's happened and now with the finalists for the

01:20:56.658 --> 01:21:01.438
general election, that people don't have faith in, you know,

01:21:01.618 --> 01:21:03.298
the two that are finalists.

01:21:04.558 --> 01:21:08.838
One's supposed to be really terrible and supposed to be homophobic,

01:21:08.878 --> 01:21:15.478
and the other one is highly homophobic, and the other one is anti-African American.

01:21:15.478 --> 01:21:19.298
And so it's like all of these things that people are hearing and have been substantiated

01:21:19.298 --> 01:21:23.178
by like either past like social media posts and things that people did.

01:21:23.458 --> 01:21:27.558
They both they're both, you know, people are concerned about the both of them.

01:21:27.558 --> 01:21:31.978
And but we have to work with whomever gets elected.

01:21:32.518 --> 01:21:40.018
And that means that we have to be graceful and we have to teach them and,

01:21:40.018 --> 01:21:45.638
you know, pull them along the journey, just as they allowed me to learn and serve.

01:21:46.398 --> 01:21:50.578
We can't just lose hope. We have to keep going. We have to keep voting.

01:21:50.818 --> 01:21:54.518
We have to keep educating one another. We have to keep doing the work.

01:21:54.978 --> 01:22:02.118
District 7 is the center of Boston. So literally, Roxbury is in the middle of Boston.

01:22:02.698 --> 01:22:07.378
And so we say it's the heart of Boston. All roads lead to Roxbury.

01:22:08.698 --> 01:22:15.358
And we know that there's a lot of land based on, due to urban renewal,

01:22:16.058 --> 01:22:20.318
basically they took land from black people and and

01:22:20.318 --> 01:22:26.658
it was and and so now all of this land available the mayor came out and said

01:22:26.658 --> 01:22:31.358
that a few years ago that she was going to give them away for free to developers

01:22:31.358 --> 01:22:37.098
so that we can continue to develop in the city and that should happen but she's not,

01:22:37.798 --> 01:22:42.778
prioritizing small black and brown developers she is just whomever is going

01:22:42.778 --> 01:22:45.398
to develop housing because that checks off a list, right?

01:22:45.778 --> 01:22:47.878
And we can say we're doing good.

01:22:48.957 --> 01:22:52.077
When you do the math and I know we don't have the time to do it right now,

01:22:52.377 --> 01:22:56.077
you then see that it's not addressing the most vulnerable population.

01:22:56.537 --> 01:23:02.137
And so unfortunately district seven is at a very, very vulnerable state.

01:23:03.077 --> 01:23:09.217
And if the mayor continues on the path that she wants to with the developers

01:23:09.217 --> 01:23:13.077
that, as I see them, who is like, you know, funding her campaign.

01:23:13.917 --> 01:23:18.397
Then district seven is in trouble because you get a whole bunch of.

01:23:19.057 --> 01:23:24.677
Poverty, condensately populated in Roxbury and South End and Little Roxbury area,

01:23:25.137 --> 01:23:31.297
where as we know it, you know, it's not a good recipe for, you know,

01:23:31.577 --> 01:23:36.257
economic drivers that we need in urban settings such as District 7.

01:23:36.797 --> 01:23:42.637
And so I would say to the people that I'm hoping that we can all work with the

01:23:42.637 --> 01:23:46.637
elected coming in, that we can continue to try to hold them accountable.

01:23:46.637 --> 01:23:53.677
But there is a very vulnerable situation that could potentially go the wrong way.

01:23:53.897 --> 01:23:57.737
And everyone wants a piece of it. It's about 400 parcels.

01:23:58.337 --> 01:24:03.537
Maybe about an eighth of that has gone into acquisition.

01:24:03.897 --> 01:24:07.557
And so there's still a lot left. And so everybody's hungry.

01:24:07.857 --> 01:24:10.817
Everybody's trying to pull in every direction. And in Boston,

01:24:11.257 --> 01:24:18.097
I don't know if you know, only 13% of all eligible voters voted for the mayor, 66,000 people.

01:24:18.577 --> 01:24:23.717
That's 13% of half a million people that make decisions, basically,

01:24:23.917 --> 01:24:29.997
for the people. And I would say that we have to look at the data and see who those people are.

01:24:30.277 --> 01:24:35.377
Are those people people that work for the mayor, people that have contracts

01:24:35.377 --> 01:24:39.857
with the mayor, people that are endorsing because my family or my husband or

01:24:39.857 --> 01:24:44.937
my cousin got land from the mayor, people that have all of these grants from the mayor.

01:24:45.177 --> 01:24:50.877
So it's this ongoing, like, depraved, depraved cycle.

01:24:52.027 --> 01:24:56.407
Those who play by the book and play the game right will get the contract,

01:24:56.727 --> 01:25:01.287
will get the job, will keep their jobs, and government will continue,

01:25:01.607 --> 01:25:05.047
as per usual, to do business like they usually do.

01:25:05.527 --> 01:25:12.547
If you play by the book, you get bread. And unfortunately, that's Roxbury,

01:25:12.907 --> 01:25:18.487
particularly because it has the most land, is that a very precarious situation.

01:25:18.967 --> 01:25:22.487
So I'll be looking forward to, hopefully,

01:25:22.807 --> 01:25:27.247
I don't know, hopefully, again, I don't know what my position is,

01:25:27.267 --> 01:25:35.127
or if, again, if folks will allow me the space, and they want me to help, then sure.

01:25:35.127 --> 01:25:37.367
But I don't know what that looks like yet.

01:25:37.587 --> 01:25:40.307
And I pray for everyone in District 7.

01:25:40.647 --> 01:25:45.587
And I say everyone because Black, White, Asian, Haitian, immigrant,

01:25:46.347 --> 01:25:48.427
whatever, wherever you're from, Africa,

01:25:49.227 --> 01:25:55.847
Somali, the populations in District 7, every single bit of the population were

01:25:55.847 --> 01:25:59.847
kind to me, were supportive. They love this district.

01:26:00.227 --> 01:26:06.467
It's a great place to live. But again, everybody's after it.

01:26:06.767 --> 01:26:10.407
And so right now, people are feeling like they're defeated.

01:26:11.387 --> 01:26:14.367
Like the mayor is going to give up this land to the gullupers.

01:26:14.527 --> 01:26:20.027
It's going to be a whole bunch of bricks and quality of life will go down,

01:26:20.027 --> 01:26:25.867
as you saw with controversy with White Stadium, the Shattuck coming in.

01:26:26.992 --> 01:26:31.432
And all of these services, everything is halfway homes and services and nonprofits

01:26:31.432 --> 01:26:38.932
and big brick buildings with housing that doesn't actually address the housing need of District 7.

01:26:39.952 --> 01:26:45.752
Yeah. Yeah. Regentrification is something else. In Atlanta, we got this thing called the Beltline.

01:26:46.352 --> 01:26:50.212
And for years, they've been trying to figure out a plan.

01:26:50.832 --> 01:26:54.952
And it's never worked because whenever they build some new Black folks that

01:26:54.952 --> 01:26:56.132
had some money moved in there.

01:26:56.392 --> 01:27:00.332
Right. But now they came up with this Beltline thing, and that's been their

01:27:00.332 --> 01:27:03.092
most successful re-gentrification project.

01:27:03.532 --> 01:27:09.092
And the biggest concern is that the people that have been there for a long time

01:27:09.092 --> 01:27:11.752
that don't want to move or can't move,

01:27:11.992 --> 01:27:17.052
they're going to get higher taxes because their property is going to be assessed

01:27:17.052 --> 01:27:20.192
higher, and that's going to cause a problem for them.

01:27:20.192 --> 01:27:25.572
So, you know, there's some leadership because Atlanta's majority black,

01:27:25.572 --> 01:27:30.072
as far as the political leadership, they're trying to navigate that.

01:27:30.532 --> 01:27:35.252
But, you know, black, you have black leadership politically,

01:27:35.652 --> 01:27:38.072
but the economic leadership is white.

01:27:38.072 --> 01:27:44.492
And so that's always going to be an issue here until that dynamic changes,

01:27:44.732 --> 01:27:50.532
which I might not, you know, I know you said black don't crack. I'm 60.

01:27:51.612 --> 01:27:55.532
So I don't know if I'm going to make it to see when that change is going to

01:27:55.532 --> 01:27:58.452
come. But I think you're proving that case.

01:27:58.672 --> 01:28:00.812
You're good. Well, thank you.

01:28:01.812 --> 01:28:07.752
So at the end of the show, I usually ask people if people want to reach out to you and all that.

01:28:07.872 --> 01:28:10.952
I don't know if you're in a position to be receptive to that.

01:28:10.952 --> 01:28:14.172
But if you do want people to reach out to you or more importantly,

01:28:14.532 --> 01:28:23.092
if there's some organizations or causes that you want people to support or get behind,

01:28:23.472 --> 01:28:27.392
this is the time to, you know, tell people how they can do that.

01:28:29.090 --> 01:28:32.550
I think people can, you know, move to their own cause.

01:28:32.770 --> 01:28:39.630
I'm nobody to advise on that, but I will just remain just, you know,

01:28:39.970 --> 01:28:46.470
a little speck on a leaf somewhere in a forest in the universe.

01:28:47.270 --> 01:28:53.650
I don't think people need to reach out to me. And I'm sorry if you have kind

01:28:53.650 --> 01:28:57.170
words or support, or even, I don't care.

01:28:57.170 --> 01:29:01.170
I get people from Mississippi calling me, like some grand master somebody,

01:29:01.170 --> 01:29:05.030
I don't know, from the KKK, that kept calling me.

01:29:05.130 --> 01:29:09.150
And I would actually have conversations with them because, I don't know,

01:29:09.310 --> 01:29:11.770
because everybody deserves a conversation, I guess.

01:29:12.210 --> 01:29:16.190
And so it doesn't matter if you call and you're calling me the N-word or whatever.

01:29:16.690 --> 01:29:21.250
I just, either way, I just don't want to be contacted because I think,

01:29:21.750 --> 01:29:27.430
again, I'm just a regular person. and I would like to get back to normal life

01:29:27.430 --> 01:29:28.890
and just focus on my family.

01:29:29.470 --> 01:29:36.570
Yeah, well, that's fair. All right. Well, Tania Anderson, I thank you again for coming on.

01:29:37.690 --> 01:29:42.170
And I have been a fan from afar.

01:29:43.990 --> 01:29:50.810
And usually when I get people on that I like, I kind of sound like a fanboy

01:29:50.810 --> 01:29:55.850
for the most part where I'm trying to be objective and ask these popular questions,

01:29:56.030 --> 01:29:58.050
proper questions, I should say.

01:29:58.910 --> 01:30:04.830
But I think that you're going to be beyond okay.

01:30:05.650 --> 01:30:09.930
And I think that you're going to continue to do incredible things.

01:30:11.290 --> 01:30:19.250
And I'm saying that because there's a rule I have in that once you've been on

01:30:19.250 --> 01:30:22.130
the show, you have an open invitation to come back.

01:30:24.150 --> 01:30:29.170
So you don't have to wait on me to say, hey, Tania, I need you to come on or whatever.

01:30:29.390 --> 01:30:32.750
It's like you say, Erik, look, I need to talk about this.

01:30:33.310 --> 01:30:38.970
Just reach out to me and we'll make that happen. So again, just thank you for your time.

01:30:39.470 --> 01:30:45.250
And as my Arabic is not that great, so I'll just say peace be unto you.

01:30:46.030 --> 01:30:49.770
Well, my Arabic is not that great either. So, peace be on to you, brother.

01:30:52.330 --> 01:30:56.250
That's what I like to say. I speak English.

01:30:57.070 --> 01:31:01.290
Yes, ma'am. And we don't have to do it in Arabic. Thank you so much.

01:31:01.530 --> 01:31:03.910
And God willing, I thank you so much.

01:31:04.190 --> 01:31:06.670
All right. All right, guys. We're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:31:26.435 --> 01:31:31.615
All right. And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Hannah Bonecutter.

01:31:31.935 --> 01:31:35.815
Hannah Bonecutter is an accomplished young woman with high aspirations,

01:31:36.115 --> 01:31:39.195
immense dedication and allegiance to justice.

01:31:39.615 --> 01:31:43.855
Hannah is a public health professional, earning her master's of public health

01:31:43.855 --> 01:31:48.235
in the Division of Health Policy and Administration with a global health concentration

01:31:48.235 --> 01:31:51.275
and a health disparities research certificate.

01:31:52.035 --> 01:31:56.715
Hannah is a Class of 2022 U.S. Presidential Management Fellowship alumna.

01:31:56.835 --> 01:31:59.315
She completed her PMF at the U.S.

01:31:59.715 --> 01:32:04.275
Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Enterprise Integration as a management

01:32:04.275 --> 01:32:07.595
and program analyst located in Washington, D.C.

01:32:07.595 --> 01:32:12.955
As part of her PMF, she also worked for the Centers for Disease Control and

01:32:12.955 --> 01:32:15.295
Prevention, Global Health Center,

01:32:15.855 --> 01:32:21.555
Eastern Europe and Central Asia Regional Office in Tbilisi, Georgia,

01:32:21.875 --> 01:32:26.355
and other surrounding areas as a policy and communications analyst.

01:32:27.215 --> 01:32:33.175
Hannah has taught as a licensed educator here in the United States and abroad,

01:32:33.175 --> 01:32:37.555
while also playing the role of entrepreneur with her own professional organizing

01:32:37.555 --> 01:32:39.435
business called Bone Clutter.

01:32:39.595 --> 01:32:41.635
We organize to the bone.

01:32:42.415 --> 01:32:48.315
In the arts realm, Hannah is an award-winning filmmaker, spoken word poet, actress, and model.

01:32:48.595 --> 01:32:53.875
She remains a devoted, enthusiastic social activist serving on boards of multiple

01:32:53.875 --> 01:32:55.175
nonprofit organizations.

01:32:55.995 --> 01:33:00.735
Hannah operates as a public speaker as well, whether it be within an educational

01:33:00.735 --> 01:33:06.935
setting on an academic related topic or in an artistic space sharing about her personal journey.

01:33:07.335 --> 01:33:12.875
Hannah states that her mission in life is to be a light of exposure and inspiration.

01:33:13.155 --> 01:33:17.675
Through many diverse pathways, Hannah strives to greatly improve this world

01:33:17.675 --> 01:33:20.795
to become a much better place.

01:33:20.795 --> 01:33:25.075
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

01:33:25.075 --> 01:33:29.115
on this podcast, Hannah Bone Cutter.

01:33:41.090 --> 01:33:43.710
Hannah Bonecutter. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?

01:33:44.130 --> 01:33:46.450
I am. I'm blessed indeed.

01:33:47.150 --> 01:33:52.050
Doing well. Can't complain. Just living life and grateful.

01:33:52.950 --> 01:33:58.110
I definitely understand that. And, you know, it's really an honor to have you come on.

01:33:58.890 --> 01:34:03.090
And we're going to get into why it's an honor. Some people might be like,

01:34:03.330 --> 01:34:05.190
Hannah Bonecutter, do I know that name?

01:34:05.690 --> 01:34:08.690
But when we get through with this interview, Y'all gonna know this sister.

01:34:09.570 --> 01:34:14.290
She's very unique. So what I want to do is I do like I normally do.

01:34:14.430 --> 01:34:16.050
I start off with a couple of icebreakers.

01:34:16.670 --> 01:34:20.090
So the first icebreaker is a quote.

01:34:21.830 --> 01:34:26.130
All right. So I want you to respond to this quote. Even the smallest victory

01:34:26.130 --> 01:34:32.010
is never to be taken for granted. Each victory must be applauded because it

01:34:32.010 --> 01:34:34.570
is so easy not to battle at all.

01:34:34.850 --> 01:34:38.630
Just accept and call that acceptance inevitable.

01:34:39.030 --> 01:34:40.350
What does that quote mean to you?

01:34:42.350 --> 01:34:53.970
That quote to me embodies the essence of continuing each day and more so like

01:34:53.970 --> 01:34:57.270
in our daily experience.

01:34:57.270 --> 01:35:04.890
And when I say continuing, I mean just proceeding with as well as we're able

01:35:04.890 --> 01:35:07.610
to, putting the next foot in front of the other.

01:35:07.910 --> 01:35:14.030
It actually reminds me, and not just, excuse me, but not just,

01:35:14.190 --> 01:35:18.510
or I should say simultaneously while putting that foot in front of the other,

01:35:19.430 --> 01:35:22.570
giving yourself a quick pat on the back for doing it.

01:35:23.990 --> 01:35:33.870
Because in our very speed-driven and quote-unquote busy society that we live in.

01:35:35.310 --> 01:35:39.250
That those moments of kind of in that quote, again,

01:35:39.590 --> 01:35:45.510
celebrating that next step taken, whatever small leap,

01:35:45.850 --> 01:35:51.490
hop, skip of progress, even if that's just, hey, I took care of my hair today

01:35:51.490 --> 01:35:56.550
And I haven't done that in five months because that is the reality for so many people.

01:35:57.370 --> 01:36:03.610
That deserves a moment of celebration and recognition.

01:36:04.290 --> 01:36:10.590
And that does a lot for our mental health and spiritual health and overall just kind of demeanor.

01:36:10.850 --> 01:36:16.490
And that can really put a positive trajectory on the rest of one's day.

01:36:17.130 --> 01:36:21.530
I also want to say, so it's encouraging. And I think it's, again,

01:36:22.650 --> 01:36:24.390
something, that's a great quote that.

01:36:26.775 --> 01:36:32.055
A piece to think about each day because we should be practicing that.

01:36:32.175 --> 01:36:36.915
It also reminds me of this quote, and I want to say it's about a woman with

01:36:36.915 --> 01:36:37.855
her first name, Margaret.

01:36:38.095 --> 01:36:40.795
I forget the last name, but it's one of those famous ones.

01:36:41.455 --> 01:36:49.915
Remember, oftentimes change started with just a few people coming together and

01:36:49.915 --> 01:36:51.475
doing something that wasn't already done.

01:36:51.615 --> 01:36:54.675
It's to the likes of that. I'm not saying exactly, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

01:36:55.035 --> 01:36:59.415
And where were those people, always historically, it seemed like they're like,

01:36:59.535 --> 01:37:00.515
we're not really doing nothing.

01:37:00.655 --> 01:37:05.355
We're just doing what we can, putting one step in front of the other the best we can.

01:37:05.635 --> 01:37:11.195
And then years, centuries, decades later, lo and behold, that was the precipice

01:37:11.195 --> 01:37:15.755
for huge progress and change society-wide.

01:37:16.075 --> 01:37:21.235
And when you can think about that as well, it's very encouraging in a deep level.

01:37:21.395 --> 01:37:22.495
So that's what that means for me.

01:37:23.135 --> 01:37:27.055
Yeah. All right. So now the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.

01:37:27.775 --> 01:37:32.555
So I need you to give me a number between one and 20. Three.

01:37:33.915 --> 01:37:38.155
How should we balance rights, freedoms, and responsibilities?

01:37:45.415 --> 01:37:50.935
So, and when you say we, just want to clarify, do you mean us as a human race,

01:37:50.935 --> 01:37:56.475
as a human species or do you mean just the nation of America or are you certain a specific week?

01:37:57.862 --> 01:38:06.062
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Understood. You said freedom, rights, and what was the other one? Responsibility.

01:38:07.842 --> 01:38:15.442
So I think that not to not answer the question with a contemplation,

01:38:15.682 --> 01:38:23.402
but to be very honest about it, the answer very much depends on how we define those,

01:38:23.702 --> 01:38:26.322
particularly freedom.

01:38:27.062 --> 01:38:33.542
That is a very, I mean, so much in the world is subjective and can be subjective

01:38:33.542 --> 01:38:38.042
rather, but especially in times such as these,

01:38:38.742 --> 01:38:51.782
freedom as well as rights seems to have multiple definitions and multiple and different boundaries,

01:38:51.942 --> 01:38:56.122
depending on who is interpreting and or enforcing the term.

01:38:56.622 --> 01:39:03.722
So in that sense, I think very first, maybe ground zero,

01:39:04.262 --> 01:39:12.962
is for us to be unanimous in our understanding and agreement on what those are.

01:39:13.482 --> 01:39:18.662
For example, to give a concrete example, several

01:39:18.662 --> 01:39:21.382
black people have lost their lives in their

01:39:21.382 --> 01:39:24.322
own homes from police coming in

01:39:24.322 --> 01:39:27.662
to the police they had

01:39:27.662 --> 01:39:35.602
a right reason a proper enough legitimate enough reason to enter the home as

01:39:35.602 --> 01:39:40.502
well as do whatever action that they took that took the life of that person

01:39:40.502 --> 01:39:45.162
many of these people that have lost their lives and their family members,

01:39:45.262 --> 01:39:46.042
their community members,

01:39:46.862 --> 01:39:49.762
did not believe that these police officers had that right.

01:39:51.480 --> 01:39:59.320
There are misalignments of understanding of what the rights are of these different

01:39:59.320 --> 01:40:00.760
parties, these different civilians.

01:40:01.380 --> 01:40:06.060
And if we're not on the same page there, we're not going to get on the same

01:40:06.060 --> 01:40:07.640
page with anything further.

01:40:08.760 --> 01:40:11.580
Responsibilities around those, freedoms around those, et cetera.

01:40:11.840 --> 01:40:17.280
So I think it starts there. That's my best thought on that.

01:40:17.600 --> 01:40:20.380
I hope that makes sense, Erik. No, that's fine.

01:40:21.800 --> 01:40:28.300
So to the listeners, just those few, those two questions, I started Icebreaker off.

01:40:28.440 --> 01:40:32.120
You kind of see why I was attracted to bring Ms.

01:40:32.180 --> 01:40:37.060
Bonecutter on, because she's, she's what we call a deep thinker.

01:40:37.800 --> 01:40:44.380
And she's also a, a, the, the, the technical term is polymuth,

01:40:44.620 --> 01:40:48.260
or in the vernacular, renaissance woman.

01:40:49.900 --> 01:40:54.880
So, Hannah, when did you realize that you were this polymuth,

01:40:54.940 --> 01:41:00.360
that you were this renaissance woman that could just be well-versed and skilled

01:41:00.360 --> 01:41:03.240
in all these different venues that you've gotten into?

01:41:04.740 --> 01:41:08.120
Yes. Well, thank you, Erik, for your kind words.

01:41:08.640 --> 01:41:18.240
I think, you know, I started hearing that term when some people, namely a lot of my like.

01:41:21.140 --> 01:41:28.580
Parents, peers, and maybe some family members around their age as after college,

01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:34.660
like about three or four years after I got my bachelor's, people, and after that,

01:41:34.960 --> 01:41:39.340
like right when I got my bachelor's, came back to Chicago and really started

01:41:39.340 --> 01:41:45.820
getting into the arts and acting on a film scene and doing spoken word poetry,

01:41:45.820 --> 01:41:49.560
which was quite different from what I got my degree in,

01:41:49.640 --> 01:41:52.780
in some ways, which is elementary education.

01:41:52.960 --> 01:41:57.880
And so I was still teaching full-time, but doing that. And then I started Bone Clutter.

01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:03.260
We organized to the bone, professional organizing business. And so as people

01:42:03.260 --> 01:42:05.200
would kind of check in and say, What you doing?

01:42:05.840 --> 01:42:09.980
Wait a minute. What you doing this to? Well, you just a renaissance woman,

01:42:09.980 --> 01:42:13.600
aren't you? And that's when that term really...

01:42:14.723 --> 01:42:17.043
Marinated in my mind. I kind of did some research. I thought,

01:42:17.263 --> 01:42:22.163
oh, okay, well, yeah, I guess I am, by golly.

01:42:23.023 --> 01:42:27.803
And I definitely have embraced that. But it was natural.

01:42:27.943 --> 01:42:31.103
It was never a thing where I knew always what it was and wanted to be that.

01:42:31.203 --> 01:42:32.983
No, it was just very natural.

01:42:33.123 --> 01:42:37.723
So that was when I first learned that indeed I was a Renaissance woman.

01:42:38.183 --> 01:42:41.363
So I was telling my college roommate about

01:42:41.363 --> 01:42:44.483
you and he was looking up your bio and

01:42:44.483 --> 01:42:47.643
he said oh so she's like a modern day benjamin franklin

01:42:47.643 --> 01:42:50.683
and i said yeah that's it benjamin franklin

01:42:50.683 --> 01:42:53.783
paul robeson yeah just because you it was

01:42:53.783 --> 01:42:56.823
like because you were an athlete right you you were on the swim team in

01:42:56.823 --> 01:43:00.583
in high school i think or something i was so see paul Robeson

01:43:00.583 --> 01:43:03.623
he was an athlete and and this actor and this

01:43:03.623 --> 01:43:06.943
this activist and all this kind of stuff and so

01:43:06.943 --> 01:43:09.703
yeah it's like you yeah you fall right into

01:43:09.703 --> 01:43:12.843
that category and that's that's very very awesome

01:43:12.843 --> 01:43:16.643
because it's like politics is my thing you know

01:43:16.643 --> 01:43:19.583
i i dabbled in sports but and i

01:43:19.583 --> 01:43:22.743
love athletic competition but you

01:43:22.743 --> 01:43:27.583
know i you know i couldn't jump out and say okay i'm gonna do because you know

01:43:27.583 --> 01:43:32.083
the public health thing that's what my mom did she was a health okay board of

01:43:32.083 --> 01:43:36.563
health in chicago and she was a teacher before that and My dad was the math

01:43:36.563 --> 01:43:41.163
whiz in the family and all that stuff, but I couldn't do all that.

01:43:41.723 --> 01:43:46.243
I was just straight trained. So when I see people and I interact with people

01:43:46.243 --> 01:43:53.123
that can do multiple things and multiple things at a skilled level, it's fascinating to me.

01:43:53.123 --> 01:43:57.143
And I definitely wanted to pick your brain on a couple of things.

01:43:57.763 --> 01:44:02.703
Why does cultural representation in the media mean, what does it mean to you?

01:44:02.843 --> 01:44:06.603
And how can Black women in leadership shape that narrative?

01:44:08.053 --> 01:44:09.713
Uh-uh-uh.

01:44:12.193 --> 01:44:24.333
That's such an important question for right now in the world because so much

01:44:24.333 --> 01:44:31.473
of what we believe is the past,

01:44:31.953 --> 01:44:38.353
present, and could be future is shaped by what we consume mainly through media.

01:44:39.673 --> 01:44:50.133
And historically, the realm of media has just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. Humongous, right?

01:44:50.333 --> 01:44:52.553
There was a time before there was anything digital.

01:44:52.953 --> 01:44:58.053
Now it's digital. And we walk around with these computers in our hands that

01:44:58.053 --> 01:44:59.353
have multiple media outlets.

01:44:59.553 --> 01:45:06.993
I mean, it's is endless. And so the role of media in shaping our culture.

01:45:07.593 --> 01:45:11.213
And was there something else to that, Eric? I want to make sure I'm touching on all pieces.

01:45:12.353 --> 01:45:14.913
There it is. How can Black women in leadership shape the narrative?

01:45:15.393 --> 01:45:20.593
So I think it's at minimum two folds and then there's creases within them.

01:45:20.833 --> 01:45:24.573
We can't get into all the creases right now. And this is like my strategic planning

01:45:24.573 --> 01:45:31.113
hat coming on, which I've done in, to your point, political or let's say government spaces.

01:45:31.113 --> 01:45:35.893
I worked on strategic planning with federal government, Department of Veterans Affairs.

01:45:36.233 --> 01:45:47.373
And I'll say that kind of, and I think many historical figures that have changed,

01:45:47.713 --> 01:45:51.113
made significant impact in the.

01:45:52.300 --> 01:46:00.980
Areas, particularly injustices within society, have done it from an inside and outside place.

01:46:01.160 --> 01:46:05.740
So, and maybe that's sometimes that is thought of as inside and kind of the

01:46:05.740 --> 01:46:09.980
rooms with the already powerful people, as well as maybe on the outside grassroots

01:46:09.980 --> 01:46:11.740
on the streets type thing.

01:46:11.940 --> 01:46:16.680
And both are very well needed. And then there's realms, kind of those creases within them.

01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:21.060
So from women in leadership positions.

01:46:21.500 --> 01:46:27.680
There are women in leadership positions that are within or very close to those

01:46:27.680 --> 01:46:34.180
rooms that have a lot of powerful players that shape media.

01:46:34.560 --> 01:46:37.420
And I think their role and

01:46:37.420 --> 01:46:48.680
responsibility is to bring evidence-based research and materials to these rooms

01:46:48.680 --> 01:46:57.300
in these spaces to these powerful people and show the deleterious effects that some of these.

01:46:58.720 --> 01:47:05.360
Stereotypical in ways, images and messaging is going out in the media about

01:47:05.360 --> 01:47:07.260
particular population groups,

01:47:07.580 --> 01:47:10.560
especially Black people, Black

01:47:10.560 --> 01:47:17.460
women, but also, also, because unfortunately, And this is the key part.

01:47:18.020 --> 01:47:20.720
Unfortunately, a lot of those people in those powerful rooms,

01:47:21.260 --> 01:47:24.160
probably one, don't care.

01:47:24.560 --> 01:47:27.540
And or two, one, think deleterious effects.

01:47:27.940 --> 01:47:35.120
Let's keep it above. So then also coming with it of saying how if we don't change

01:47:35.120 --> 01:47:39.600
it, it's going to harm one of their goals.

01:47:41.218 --> 01:47:47.778
Their goals may be profit, we can talk about how continuing a thing that's having

01:47:47.778 --> 01:47:52.138
a negative effect on a certain population group can actually harm the people

01:47:52.138 --> 01:47:54.118
that are condoning it and putting it out,

01:47:54.338 --> 01:47:57.058
stereotypical imaging, whatever, their pockets.

01:47:57.238 --> 01:47:59.918
Because unfortunately, that's a lot of times what they may care about most.

01:48:00.538 --> 01:48:08.918
That can be spun. I don't think Black women in leadership, nor nearly any leadership group,

01:48:09.898 --> 01:48:15.898
has been able to spin it the way it needs to be because of what we're continuing to see.

01:48:16.798 --> 01:48:20.418
But it can be. I have to have hope that it can be.

01:48:20.958 --> 01:48:24.338
But then also, in the meantime, and this is the second fold,

01:48:24.978 --> 01:48:29.238
or as I say, not but, and also, while they may be saying, well,

01:48:29.338 --> 01:48:31.638
you know, that's all good and great, but we're going to still keep doing it.

01:48:31.718 --> 01:48:36.818
We got the power, understand those evidence. Great, but we appreciate your time

01:48:36.818 --> 01:48:40.558
But you can leave On the outskirts, you got grassroots saying Look,

01:48:40.658 --> 01:48:44.198
we're not going to take it no more Right, and these top.

01:48:45.558 --> 01:48:50.238
Again, black women in leadership In the communities Are on the ground,

01:48:51.278 --> 01:48:55.438
Organizing and getting people And doing these things like Black Lives Matter

01:48:55.438 --> 01:48:59.758
movement, all these things To say, yo, this is it And if you ain't,

01:48:59.878 --> 01:49:03.898
go ahead, fine If you don't want to stop in your top But, you know,

01:49:04.398 --> 01:49:08.918
I will tell Oval Towers when we presented it to you for you to stop there,

01:49:09.098 --> 01:49:12.618
then you're going to just have to stop now because we're not going to consume it anymore.

01:49:12.758 --> 01:49:14.278
You're just not going to make a profit that way.

01:49:14.958 --> 01:49:18.918
You're not going to get your goals accomplished that way. So I think there's twofold.

01:49:18.998 --> 01:49:21.578
And, of course, like I said, there's creases within those that support it.

01:49:21.658 --> 01:49:26.858
But that's those are the ways I see it. And it's tough.

01:49:27.458 --> 01:49:29.838
All of it's tough, but must be done.

01:49:30.498 --> 01:49:37.418
So, OK. You once said that as a black woman, the greatest challenge I faced

01:49:37.418 --> 01:49:42.918
to fully embracing my black womanhood was others not accepting my intelligence.

01:49:43.298 --> 01:49:44.878
Do you still feel that way?

01:49:50.681 --> 01:50:01.121
Absolutely. I don't think, unfortunately, that's going to ever be something that goes away.

01:50:01.501 --> 01:50:07.081
I think it can ebb and flow or the level of it be increased or decreased depending

01:50:07.081 --> 01:50:10.661
on where you are, whom you're around, whom you may work with.

01:50:11.321 --> 01:50:16.901
For me, that's most felt in professional settings.

01:50:17.621 --> 01:50:23.101
I will say that I think for me in very recent past, it has decreased.

01:50:25.001 --> 01:50:31.301
However, there are certain things that confirm that that's still the case,

01:50:31.801 --> 01:50:41.401
such as, you know, it's intelligence as well as respect.

01:50:41.481 --> 01:50:47.281
But then sometimes I feel that it's one proceeds of the first where it's like,

01:50:47.621 --> 01:50:52.181
well, I don't respect her, but she's also not going to be smart enough to know

01:50:52.181 --> 01:50:57.261
that I'm doing this microaggression or I'm doing this rude thing against her.

01:51:00.281 --> 01:51:09.261
And boo-boo the fool is silly if you do that, especially if you leave a breadcrumb trail, let's say.

01:51:09.261 --> 01:51:16.581
So, and I'd actually, you know, now this is the public health research part of me, Eric.

01:51:16.821 --> 01:51:21.401
I would love to take a survey. And you know politics. Now, you know government.

01:51:21.981 --> 01:51:28.021
And I'm sure you know email etiquette. I learned the hard way in undergrad that

01:51:28.021 --> 01:51:32.641
typing all caps is synonymous to screaming at somebody.

01:51:33.201 --> 01:51:35.841
And you don't do that in a professional setting.

01:51:37.429 --> 01:51:43.849
Multiple people do that in my workplace, in recent past.

01:51:44.429 --> 01:51:48.109
They're not of color, right? They're not Black.

01:51:48.509 --> 01:51:55.069
And I can't help but think, again, I mean, one, you don't respect me,

01:51:55.189 --> 01:51:59.069
but I never maybe expected you to maybe. So, you know, you know.

01:51:59.689 --> 01:52:06.329
But then, too, my goodness, you probably also, again think I'm so dumb as to

01:52:06.329 --> 01:52:10.609
not know what that really means and maybe not and to think that,

01:52:11.449 --> 01:52:18.029
I'm not gonna keep tabs on it right so yeah definitely definitely still happens

01:52:18.029 --> 01:52:24.269
but to that quote keep keep making progress keep putting one step in front of the other so,

01:52:25.549 --> 01:52:28.869
looks like you have some deep thoughts on that Eric no I

01:52:28.869 --> 01:52:32.249
you know I was just listening it might have froze can you hear me yeah i can

01:52:32.249 --> 01:52:40.369
hear you yeah you know i'm not i i i agree with that i think black men do not

01:52:40.369 --> 01:52:45.749
experience it as much as black women i think and because.

01:52:47.569 --> 01:52:53.289
Well misogyny plays a lot of role in that but i think that you know men are

01:52:53.289 --> 01:52:58.749
men are men and And we confront things like that.

01:52:59.109 --> 01:53:03.569
Like, you sent me an email with all caps. I'm like, you know,

01:53:03.749 --> 01:53:05.669
you need to say that to my face.

01:53:05.889 --> 01:53:11.009
I'm not feeling the microaggression at this point. And I know in a corporate

01:53:11.009 --> 01:53:12.589
setting, you can't really do that.

01:53:12.789 --> 01:53:14.849
You really ain't supposed to do that in a political setting,

01:53:14.909 --> 01:53:21.409
but you have a little more leeway in the halls of a Capitol building or a city

01:53:21.409 --> 01:53:22.569
hall or something like that.

01:53:22.569 --> 01:53:35.389
But, you know, the intelligence part, I think, you know, people mistake privilege for intelligence.

01:53:36.489 --> 01:53:41.389
And I think they have, because they have access to things that we don't have,

01:53:41.569 --> 01:53:44.669
they think that's a reflection on our intelligence.

01:53:44.669 --> 01:53:49.349
When it's like, no, we may not know all the rules to the game,

01:53:49.389 --> 01:53:53.429
but we do know the essence and the foundation of the game.

01:53:54.529 --> 01:54:00.989
So I think that's kind of where it hits with with black men as opposed to black women.

01:54:03.428 --> 01:54:08.568
So let's try to pick your brain some more, more on some issues.

01:54:09.048 --> 01:54:12.768
And there's really one question I really want to ask you to kind of close it out.

01:54:12.948 --> 01:54:18.888
So putting on your public health hat, do you feel that the current administration

01:54:18.888 --> 01:54:24.148
will be a hindrance to future African-American health disparity interventions?

01:54:25.388 --> 01:54:32.868
Absolutely. I think it already is. Matter of fact, I know it already is.

01:54:34.828 --> 01:54:40.968
Based on anecdotal evidence I have. There's, I'm sure, some studies,

01:54:40.988 --> 01:54:48.608
as much as they can be done, gathering more evidence, but yes, absolutely.

01:54:50.368 --> 01:54:57.688
To expand a little bit on how I said I know, again, I was recently working in

01:54:57.688 --> 01:55:03.268
federal government for a couple years and through the Presidential Management

01:55:03.268 --> 01:55:04.648
Fellowship Program, actually.

01:55:05.108 --> 01:55:09.668
Do you want to touch on that? That is something that has now since been removed

01:55:09.668 --> 01:55:11.728
or attempted to be removed through an executive order.

01:55:11.988 --> 01:55:16.148
As we know, many of those are being fought in court and whatnot, etc.

01:55:16.188 --> 01:55:21.008
We shall see the outcome in the future, the full final outcome.

01:55:21.188 --> 01:55:34.008
But so many people in federal government work, which is a large employer for Black people,

01:55:34.368 --> 01:55:36.628
have been laid off,

01:55:37.068 --> 01:55:39.228
fired, however you want to put it.

01:55:40.814 --> 01:55:46.054
Right then and there. Employment is one of the social determinants of health.

01:55:46.454 --> 01:55:54.074
Without that, everything else with the health gets shaky and usually deleterious effects to it.

01:55:54.514 --> 01:55:59.994
Now that's on an individual level. And I do know some Black people that have been let go, right?

01:56:00.394 --> 01:56:07.694
Also, I know that there are employee affinity groups or employee resource groups

01:56:07.694 --> 01:56:12.734
for particular population groups such as Black federal government employees,

01:56:12.974 --> 01:56:19.574
which what these do, as we know, create safe spaces for these groups,

01:56:19.834 --> 01:56:24.774
have been essentially obliterated with the removal of DEIA.

01:56:25.414 --> 01:56:31.454
So now they can't even convene safely within their business,

01:56:31.654 --> 01:56:32.774
their workspaces or whatnot.

01:56:32.774 --> 01:56:36.274
This can instill

01:56:36.274 --> 01:56:39.854
let's say broadly

01:56:39.854 --> 01:56:44.654
a disruption to one's homeostasis within their within their their bodies and

01:56:44.654 --> 01:56:50.394
their souls and to get a little bit more specific probably increase anxiety

01:56:50.394 --> 01:56:55.654
in people which is not good for your health and probably increase stress and

01:56:55.654 --> 01:56:59.714
then and right and And that is for big groups of people.

01:56:59.734 --> 01:57:03.134
And let's then take it on an even broader scale.

01:57:05.039 --> 01:57:12.519
Going on is an attempt to incite chaos and mass fear.

01:57:13.279 --> 01:57:22.139
And depending on where someone is, they can very easily and fully be engulfed by that.

01:57:22.439 --> 01:57:30.439
And that is a very not safe and pro-health place to be.

01:57:31.519 --> 01:57:36.919
And so just that alone, like, and I don't know, Eric, if you were aware,

01:57:37.059 --> 01:57:41.359
but it has been proven in past studies that, like, I can't help but think of

01:57:41.359 --> 01:57:44.279
this when I think about what you just said in the current administration and

01:57:44.279 --> 01:57:45.619
with health disparities, right?

01:57:45.799 --> 01:57:49.359
There's already a huge health disparity in allostatic load between Black people

01:57:49.359 --> 01:57:51.619
in America and other populations. What is that?

01:57:52.259 --> 01:57:56.919
Allostatic load is how they kind of measure the key stress hormones in our bodies,

01:57:57.079 --> 01:57:58.039
one of which being cortisol.

01:57:58.739 --> 01:58:03.379
And they've tested Black people on longevity studies and whatnot.

01:58:03.939 --> 01:58:08.219
They've sorted by age, stratified by age groups, gender, and et cetera.

01:58:08.499 --> 01:58:14.019
And across the board, Black people have always a higher one than white counterparts

01:58:14.019 --> 01:58:19.099
and most of the other population groups when sorted by ethnicity and race.

01:58:19.699 --> 01:58:23.479
What's going on right now is, I'm sure,

01:58:23.479 --> 01:58:26.359
aim to continue to increase that disparity and for

01:58:26.359 --> 01:58:29.159
many already has whether it's on

01:58:29.159 --> 01:58:32.579
the individual level more bigger group or

01:58:32.579 --> 01:58:39.919
all over across the board and yeah and we and we we shall see what happens now

01:58:39.919 --> 01:58:46.459
you know what eric and i have to say this right now because i i love i'm here

01:58:46.459 --> 01:58:51.319
to to love people to spread love and positivity that's i believe we all are spread light.

01:58:52.279 --> 01:58:57.219
I encourage people to be very To be vigilant, but but,

01:58:58.139 --> 01:59:01.739
Boundary safe boundary vigilant in terms of as we kind of talked about media

01:59:01.739 --> 01:59:02.879
things can be coming at us all

01:59:02.879 --> 01:59:07.659
the time and to Consume all of it that is asking for I think mind chaos.

01:59:07.999 --> 01:59:12.779
We we should not be doing that with that said Keep aware of some of the key

01:59:12.779 --> 01:59:15.239
highlights especially the health things right because if you don't have your

01:59:15.239 --> 01:59:18.619
health You don't have anything You don't have a life,

01:59:19.459 --> 01:59:23.639
And what I see and what I've seen actually prior to,

01:59:23.919 --> 01:59:30.759
as I kind of read some of these summaries of Project 2025, before the new administration

01:59:30.759 --> 01:59:37.679
was in place, it is opening in several top public health experts have said this,

01:59:38.059 --> 01:59:41.099
that are much more versed in it than me and studied in it.

01:59:41.099 --> 01:59:48.639
But it is setting a storm for, if you will, maybe the perfect storm for further

01:59:48.639 --> 01:59:52.119
pandemics and epidemics to occur.

01:59:53.732 --> 01:59:58.632
Already being seen in some places across America, definitely across the globe.

01:59:58.812 --> 02:00:03.832
There's a newsletter called Global Health Now. Encourage people to read it for free.

02:00:04.612 --> 02:00:12.112
And as we saw with the COVID pandemic in America, what groups died the most?

02:00:13.612 --> 02:00:19.592
Already most vulnerable and marginalized ones. And so if this is setting up

02:00:19.592 --> 02:00:25.132
for things like that to occur again, then the disparities are setting up to

02:00:25.132 --> 02:00:27.312
be greatly increased and whatnot.

02:00:27.452 --> 02:00:31.772
And so I say that because I want people to do their best to,

02:00:31.912 --> 02:00:37.392
again, be aware and take whatever steps necessary to protect yourself,

02:00:37.572 --> 02:00:40.592
protect your health, as you should already be doing in life.

02:00:40.732 --> 02:00:46.212
But being aware of what's going on around in these times right now to do so.

02:00:47.012 --> 02:00:54.852
All right. Where in your hat now, working with Veterans Affairs in the state

02:00:54.852 --> 02:01:00.152
of Illinois, what is the greatest challenge facing America's veterans right now?

02:01:02.952 --> 02:01:07.232
Well, greatest has to be defined.

02:01:08.052 --> 02:01:14.912
This could be by numerically in various ways. This could be by maybe surveys

02:01:14.912 --> 02:01:17.312
taken from veterans and what they feel most passionate about.

02:01:17.492 --> 02:01:21.812
This could be measured in a lot of different ways. So I need to state that.

02:01:21.972 --> 02:01:26.532
And I also need to say I'm speaking as Hannah Bonecutter, not in my position

02:01:26.532 --> 02:01:27.852
with the state government.

02:01:27.852 --> 02:01:31.212
But in my humble opinion,

02:01:31.672 --> 02:01:38.952
I'll say the issue for veterans that I'm most passionate about and that I know

02:01:38.952 --> 02:01:42.952
several people who work for our veterans,

02:01:43.072 --> 02:01:46.792
whether that's through community organizations that have a veteran center mission,

02:01:47.212 --> 02:01:51.152
however it is, is homelessness.

02:01:51.152 --> 02:01:54.512
Homelessness and the very

02:01:54.512 --> 02:01:57.392
first film I ever did of my

02:01:57.392 --> 02:02:00.252
own documentary called Live is the Majority you could watch

02:02:00.252 --> 02:02:03.772
it now I was for free on YouTube and it's around

02:02:03.772 --> 02:02:10.292
homelessness in Chicago and there's a moment where I am speaking with a homeless

02:02:10.292 --> 02:02:17.112
person in Chicago who's a veteran a black male veteran and I don't think I'll

02:02:17.112 --> 02:02:20.432
ever get over the fact that like it's such a conundrum how,

02:02:21.152 --> 02:02:28.852
these are the people that fight to protect a home for us, a safe home for us, for all of us,

02:02:29.452 --> 02:02:31.772
and yet they're not guaranteed a safe home for themselves.

02:02:34.207 --> 02:02:38.167
That is, to me, the definition of backwards.

02:02:39.387 --> 02:02:44.587
And so, for me, that's what I'm most passionate about with our veterans.

02:02:44.587 --> 02:02:49.427
And I'm working towards fixing that as much as I can.

02:02:51.147 --> 02:02:56.487
So the most striking image, one of my most striking, the striking image in my

02:02:56.487 --> 02:03:00.867
memory, being involved in public service, one of the things I had to do,

02:03:01.047 --> 02:03:05.207
well, I didn't have to do it, but I ended up doing a lot was going to D.C.

02:03:05.767 --> 02:03:09.307
Mm-hmm. And there's a park right

02:03:09.307 --> 02:03:14.427
across the street from the Department of Veterans Affairs in D.C. Yep.

02:03:15.027 --> 02:03:19.547
Mm-hmm. It is filled with homeless veterans.

02:03:20.667 --> 02:03:25.467
And I just, that was, that image will never get out of my mind.

02:03:25.467 --> 02:03:33.107
It was like, if any president made the mistake and put me in that position, I was like,

02:03:33.267 --> 02:03:38.507
I am going to do everything I can so that park will look like a park and all

02:03:38.507 --> 02:03:40.807
those individuals will have a home to stay in.

02:03:40.987 --> 02:03:46.067
It does not make sense to me. And in previous administrations in the history

02:03:46.067 --> 02:03:50.787
of this country, it didn't make sense to them either. That's why we had the GI Bill and all that.

02:03:51.027 --> 02:03:53.647
Now, it wasn't fair to black folks, but that's a whole nother show.

02:03:54.107 --> 02:03:59.787
But, you know, it's like if you are going to defend a homeland,

02:03:59.807 --> 02:04:02.807
you need a home when you get back to the homeland.

02:04:03.007 --> 02:04:05.027
Right. It just makes sense.

02:04:06.347 --> 02:04:09.667
And you know the the president

02:04:09.667 --> 02:04:12.727
that figures out how to get that done will

02:04:12.727 --> 02:04:15.887
probably be in the pantheon of like let's see

02:04:15.887 --> 02:04:20.187
if we can carve another face in Mount Rushmore right I mean that's how that's

02:04:20.187 --> 02:04:24.367
how that's how crazy that and it shouldn't be that crazy but that's where we

02:04:24.367 --> 02:04:28.947
are so I feel you on that I feel you on that and but don't let me get on my

02:04:28.947 --> 02:04:33.747
soapbox because I gotta try to finish this interview with you as a Chicagoan.

02:04:33.787 --> 02:04:39.967
Tell me how you feel about President Trump sending federal troops to the city.

02:04:41.947 --> 02:04:53.947
Yeah, you know, I feel that definitely a showboating type effort on the administration's part.

02:04:56.147 --> 02:05:05.287
And from what I've heard in my city, if this happens, it's not going to be taken

02:05:05.287 --> 02:05:09.707
sitting down, so to speak. And you know our city.

02:05:10.327 --> 02:05:14.727
And you know what happened with recent riots and all of that. And so...

02:05:16.617 --> 02:05:21.737
To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet, but I know it's still being talked about.

02:05:22.317 --> 02:05:28.397
I am prayerful and hopeful it does not because it's I mean, none of it,

02:05:28.577 --> 02:05:32.797
in my opinion, is necessary at all. Like I said, showboating.

02:05:33.157 --> 02:05:36.617
But yeah, I'm glad it has not happened to date.

02:05:37.037 --> 02:05:42.417
So, you know, I think he's pushing the button because he thinks it will happen.

02:05:42.417 --> 02:05:50.137
And i think it's part of his grand scheme to put us into some kind of crazy martial law whatever,

02:05:50.757 --> 02:05:57.917
but i but again and i've said this on my show and i've said this to guests america

02:05:57.917 --> 02:06:04.297
is too big for a strong man and i said i was going to dedicate something to

02:06:04.297 --> 02:06:08.557
really justify that because I've had experts on this on the show,

02:06:08.697 --> 02:06:12.897
but, you know, Chicago is an example of why that's too big.

02:06:13.517 --> 02:06:17.057
It's like, first of all, you've got this activist mayor.

02:06:17.117 --> 02:06:22.357
And regardless of how people may feel about, is he the smoothest brother on

02:06:22.357 --> 02:06:25.037
the job or, you know, giving press conference, all that.

02:06:25.297 --> 02:06:27.577
He's an activist by training.

02:06:28.257 --> 02:06:33.497
Absolutely. If you circle a raggons around him, he's going to circle the wagons

02:06:33.497 --> 02:06:36.157
that's circling him. That's just his mindset.

02:06:36.377 --> 02:06:41.357
And the people are, he's, he's used to fighting government, even though that

02:06:41.357 --> 02:06:43.337
is part of the government, he's used to fighting it.

02:06:43.537 --> 02:06:48.917
So you're playing into it. And then his ally is one of the richest politicians

02:06:48.917 --> 02:06:50.757
in America. Right. Right.

02:06:51.137 --> 02:06:56.417
Who is based out of Chicago, who made his family fortune in that city.

02:06:56.817 --> 02:07:00.937
Right. You know, and still has vested interests through his family business.

02:07:00.937 --> 02:07:03.757
So he from a money side of

02:07:03.757 --> 02:07:07.417
the point he's got motivation but from a political side he

02:07:07.417 --> 02:07:11.917
might want to be president one day so he's looking like oh no you're not going

02:07:11.917 --> 02:07:16.777
to do this here and then the nature of the people of chicago it's just exactly

02:07:16.777 --> 02:07:23.097
that's it yeah we we not going to talk i mean it's like they pushing it with

02:07:23.097 --> 02:07:25.817
the boats going down the chicago river they really pushing,

02:07:25.817 --> 02:07:28.357
walking down the street. Chicago.

02:07:30.677 --> 02:07:36.217
So, just a real quick Chicago history lesson. When the gangsters were in Chicago

02:07:36.217 --> 02:07:39.237
and Al Capone was doing his thing, this is not for you, Hannah,

02:07:39.317 --> 02:07:39.957
this is for the listeners.

02:07:41.897 --> 02:07:46.677
You know, the gangsters wanted to control and they didn't like...

02:07:47.558 --> 02:07:50.418
Tribune writing bad stories about them

02:07:50.418 --> 02:07:54.538
so they decided they were going to try to hijack the

02:07:54.538 --> 02:07:58.738
tribune trucks as they were delivering newspapers and what

02:07:58.738 --> 02:08:01.598
they did not know that robert mccormick was a

02:08:01.598 --> 02:08:04.938
former officer in world war one and so

02:08:04.938 --> 02:08:08.158
when those guys went to try to hijack

02:08:08.158 --> 02:08:11.318
the trucks they were met with guys with

02:08:11.318 --> 02:08:14.158
guns and they were gunfights at newsstands in

02:08:14.158 --> 02:08:16.898
chicago that's the history of this

02:08:16.898 --> 02:08:20.698
city and these are just the white folks now we ain't gonna get to us exactly

02:08:20.698 --> 02:08:23.678
that's the white folks so i'm like in

02:08:23.678 --> 02:08:26.578
in the history of this city if there's any city where

02:08:26.578 --> 02:08:30.378
it's like yeah we probably don't need to try that experiment chicago

02:08:30.378 --> 02:08:33.158
would be that city but again let me let

02:08:33.158 --> 02:08:35.838
me move on let me let me let me

02:08:35.838 --> 02:08:38.478
let me close this out yeah and eric can

02:08:38.478 --> 02:08:41.278
i can i add one one quick thing in same light

02:08:41.278 --> 02:08:45.018
in that I want to say I'm so proud

02:08:45.018 --> 02:08:48.438
of my city for that fact where it's

02:08:48.438 --> 02:08:51.898
like nah we're not the one we're not

02:08:51.898 --> 02:08:59.838
the one at all but further we are the one when it comes to setting a much higher

02:08:59.838 --> 02:09:09.018
standard and much more pointed focus on equity and inclusion and access. We truly are.

02:09:09.298 --> 02:09:13.678
And that is seen in our healthcare, that has been seen in our education reform,

02:09:13.938 --> 02:09:15.718
that is seen in so many places.

02:09:15.818 --> 02:09:23.918
And it ain't perfect, far from it in some ways, but by golly, Chicago has done a lot.

02:09:24.038 --> 02:09:28.078
And so I'm thankful to be part of it. And I'm proud of us.

02:09:28.238 --> 02:09:31.358
And we are, I mean, other cities are looking to us in America,

02:09:31.518 --> 02:09:34.518
other places in the world, to Chicago for guidance on that stuff.

02:09:34.758 --> 02:09:39.858
So, and I think that also is why we're a target by this administration,

02:09:39.858 --> 02:09:42.618
but we're not the target they want to put a trigger on.

02:09:43.198 --> 02:09:47.238
So. Amen, sister. Amen. All right. So let's close this out with this question.

02:09:47.678 --> 02:09:52.898
The opening stanza of Travis Green's song, Intentional, states that all things

02:09:52.898 --> 02:09:56.318
are working for my good because he's intentional.

02:09:56.738 --> 02:10:01.698
So one, are all things still working for your good? And two,

02:10:02.018 --> 02:10:06.138
how would you advise people to find that place of intentionality?

02:10:09.650 --> 02:10:21.090
Absolutely. Always. Number two, this is, this response, the answer to this is rooted in my faith.

02:10:21.950 --> 02:10:26.390
And I will say sidebar, so interesting, Erik.

02:10:26.810 --> 02:10:32.290
I almost feel like, did you get my iTunes a little bit? Because that is my favorite,

02:10:32.670 --> 02:10:36.050
one of my favorite praise songs. And I'm listening to that.

02:10:36.290 --> 02:10:38.450
People can tell you, I listen to that on a daily.

02:10:39.310 --> 02:10:45.810
So, and I'm usually on repeat. Shout out to Travis. So to respond is rooted in my faith.

02:10:45.950 --> 02:10:48.550
I definitely identify as a Christian.

02:10:48.710 --> 02:10:52.170
And when I say that, going back to the etymology of that word,

02:10:52.850 --> 02:10:57.610
breaking it down to Christ with Christian and then in like,

02:10:57.810 --> 02:11:02.190
so Christ-like doing my best to live my life as Jesus Christ lived his,

02:11:02.190 --> 02:11:05.030
which for me to

02:11:05.030 --> 02:11:08.730
say very summatively high level

02:11:08.730 --> 02:11:13.430
is injustice love and peace and

02:11:13.430 --> 02:11:16.990
so to walk and

02:11:16.990 --> 02:11:24.650
move and do and be with intentionality I believe needs to be founded at least

02:11:24.650 --> 02:11:34.170
for me it is founded in my faith and understanding what my faith says about that and how to do it.

02:11:34.950 --> 02:11:42.190
And for me, there's levels of intentional,

02:11:42.490 --> 02:11:46.290
I guess, or you can be intentional in, let's say, many different ways and things,

02:11:46.410 --> 02:11:52.350
with work, with family, with friends, with however, so many ways you can live an intentional life.

02:11:52.710 --> 02:12:02.150
But if it's rooted in faith, I think that that intentionality can never be separate

02:12:02.150 --> 02:12:06.490
from love and peace and justice.

02:12:07.630 --> 02:12:13.330
And so when you're being intentional and kind of more of these specific areas,

02:12:13.330 --> 02:12:20.210
those themes should be perceived and felt by others.

02:12:21.230 --> 02:12:26.070
That's when you know the intentionality is right

02:12:26.070 --> 02:12:29.950
I would say at least for myself yeah

02:12:29.950 --> 02:12:33.030
all right well Hannah Bonecutter it's

02:12:33.030 --> 02:12:39.290
it's been an honor and a privilege to talk to you as I knew that and I knew

02:12:39.290 --> 02:12:44.310
that it would be if people want to get in touch with you and you know check

02:12:44.310 --> 02:12:50.590
out your short films check out your poetry keep track of what you're doing with the Veterans Affair,

02:12:50.710 --> 02:12:54.610
just all the stuff that Hannah Bonecutter is doing. How can they do that?

02:12:55.910 --> 02:12:57.810
Absolutely. So I would say...

02:12:59.243 --> 02:13:02.723
Well, maybe three. One, I know a lot of people on Instagram.

02:13:02.963 --> 02:13:06.483
My Instagram is at the underscore bonecutter.

02:13:06.723 --> 02:13:11.763
Bonecutter spelled my last name, just how it sounds, bone, and then cutter, all one word.

02:13:12.263 --> 02:13:15.143
And then I have a link tree which the link tree

02:13:15.143 --> 02:13:17.923
is how my

02:13:17.923 --> 02:13:21.403
link tree is kind of like a very aesthetic engaging portfolio

02:13:21.403 --> 02:13:26.943
of kind of all my engagements and what I'm about artistic things I've done and

02:13:26.943 --> 02:13:32.283
that's I may probably the most entertaining maybe or secondly to the IG but

02:13:32.283 --> 02:13:35.023
pretty direct and so if you just were to search Hannah Bonecutter link tree

02:13:35.023 --> 02:13:39.743
it would pop up and then also LinkedIn LinkedIn is a great place as well.

02:13:40.483 --> 02:13:43.743
So yeah, those, those would be the main places, but my link tree also has all

02:13:43.743 --> 02:13:46.843
other links to different social media platforms I'm on at the bottom.

02:13:47.643 --> 02:13:51.203
Yeah. And then also your business, cause we didn't even get to dabble,

02:13:51.283 --> 02:13:53.403
but you did mention it. So that's good.

02:13:55.583 --> 02:13:59.943
Well, I know you got to go, but I, again, thank you for doing this.

02:14:00.623 --> 02:14:04.203
And one of the rules I have is that once

02:14:04.203 --> 02:14:06.863
you've accepted an invitation and you've actually come on you

02:14:06.863 --> 02:14:09.543
have an open invitation to come back you don't have to

02:14:09.543 --> 02:14:12.543
wait on me to ask you if you say Fleming

02:14:12.543 --> 02:14:17.183
look or Erik I something I need to talk about just you know we'll make that

02:14:17.183 --> 02:14:22.003
happen so thank you again for doing this thank thank you so much Erik for letting

02:14:22.003 --> 02:14:26.103
me know that I will not forget that and it's this this has been such a wonderful

02:14:26.103 --> 02:14:29.963
conversation for real I feel like I'm in some ways talking to talking to a family

02:14:29.963 --> 02:14:32.203
member about about just just some important things.

02:14:32.403 --> 02:14:35.903
So I so appreciate you, Erik. And thank you so much for finding me,

02:14:35.983 --> 02:14:37.663
reaching out and setting this up.

02:14:38.063 --> 02:14:41.103
I've had a great, great time talking with you. So thank you.

02:14:41.603 --> 02:14:43.863
All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

02:14:44.623 --> 02:14:46.243
Yes. Catch you on the other side.

02:14:58.701 --> 02:15:04.361
All right. And we are back. And so I want to thank Dr. Nancy Pearson.

02:15:05.321 --> 02:15:09.301
Yes, there's another Pearson. If you didn't hear that interview,

02:15:10.021 --> 02:15:11.501
another Pearson in the mix.

02:15:11.741 --> 02:15:16.521
But don't worry, lady, she's not a lawyer. So it's still going to be Melba and

02:15:16.521 --> 02:15:18.301
Dr. Tracy doing the legal stuff.

02:15:18.501 --> 02:15:22.521
But, you know, Dr. Nancy is probably going to come back on at some point.

02:15:22.521 --> 02:15:26.801
Hannah Bonecutter what,

02:15:27.861 --> 02:15:35.161
a an incredible person you can you can you can hear,

02:15:36.081 --> 02:15:40.541
that you know there are sometimes that there are regrets that this is only audio

02:15:40.541 --> 02:15:46.621
but just being able to talk to her and all that and I hope that you heard how

02:15:46.621 --> 02:15:54.821
thoughtful she is and how inspiring she is this is a young Black woman who is really,

02:15:55.021 --> 02:16:00.961
really committed through various venues to make this country better.

02:16:01.881 --> 02:16:07.081
And in the interview, there was a comparison with Benjamin Franklin and Paul Robeson.

02:16:07.741 --> 02:16:11.521
Those gentlemen did that.

02:16:11.721 --> 02:16:18.281
They were people who used their talents to try to make America a better place.

02:16:18.581 --> 02:16:21.781
And this sister definitely falls in that category.

02:16:22.281 --> 02:16:27.761
And the more that she continues to do that, I think the more people are going

02:16:27.761 --> 02:16:30.901
to recognize what she's offering.

02:16:31.241 --> 02:16:42.061
And in Tania Anderson, going into that interview, knowing what she's been going through, It was tough.

02:16:42.401 --> 02:16:51.041
But first of all, I was honored that she even responded to my request and that she signed up for it.

02:16:51.461 --> 02:16:59.081
And I hope that those of you who are listening who may be familiar with her

02:16:59.081 --> 02:17:10.021
situation got to hear a side of her to understand why she was on my radar for a long time.

02:17:10.381 --> 02:17:18.261
She has been, and I believe will continue to be, an advocate for the people in her area in Boston.

02:17:20.003 --> 02:17:27.083
And, you know, that no matter what trials and tribulations we go through,

02:17:27.323 --> 02:17:30.163
that we're going to be greater on the other side.

02:17:32.123 --> 02:17:37.943
And I really believe that because I'm a testament, testimony on that.

02:17:39.203 --> 02:17:43.903
You know, and some days I don't know if I'm climbing a mountain or if I'm sliding

02:17:43.903 --> 02:17:45.603
down the mountain, but I'm still on it.

02:17:46.743 --> 02:17:56.043
Right. And, you know, we all have our crosses to bear and, like I said,

02:17:56.143 --> 02:17:58.083
our Garden of Gethsemane moments.

02:17:59.023 --> 02:18:02.643
But, you know, we just keep pressing on.

02:18:03.963 --> 02:18:13.063
And I hope that when all is said and done, that all of us, not just me,

02:18:13.223 --> 02:18:15.703
not just Tania or anybody else,

02:18:16.143 --> 02:18:21.403
that when it's all said and done, that people realize that those of us who are

02:18:21.403 --> 02:18:23.983
out here in the fight are doing it for the right reasons.

02:18:23.983 --> 02:18:30.263
No matter how, whatever shortcomings we may encounter, just know that there

02:18:30.263 --> 02:18:34.623
are some people in our community that's fighting for us in spite of that.

02:18:35.603 --> 02:18:43.143
So again, thank those ladies for coming on. Now, I want to get to, it's been a lot of stuff.

02:18:43.383 --> 02:18:51.703
And I want to talk about this, you know, There's been some talk about Assata

02:18:51.703 --> 02:18:57.383
Shakur, and I'm not here to deify any human being, right?

02:18:59.743 --> 02:19:06.143
But I think, you know, in light of the way this show is going or has gone,

02:19:06.483 --> 02:19:10.283
I think I wanted to touch on this thing for a moment.

02:19:10.283 --> 02:19:17.083
If you do not understand the magnitude of what was going on in the 1960s and

02:19:17.083 --> 02:19:28.243
the 70s in America as far as black people fighting for freedom and liberation and peace of mind,

02:19:29.323 --> 02:19:35.303
right, if you don't really comprehend that, you might want to talk to people before you go public.

02:19:35.703 --> 02:19:39.963
If you're an elected official, you might want to let that one ride.

02:19:40.283 --> 02:19:45.103
You might not want to say things like, oh, well, she didn't,

02:19:45.103 --> 02:19:50.743
you know, get her moment of accountability and all that. What are we talking about?

02:19:51.503 --> 02:19:54.943
Governor, what are we talking about? I'm talking about a governor of New Jersey,

02:19:55.283 --> 02:19:57.023
by the way. What are we talking about?

02:19:58.023 --> 02:20:03.823
Obviously, you don't understand, right? And if you want to hang out with the

02:20:03.823 --> 02:20:06.903
narratives like, oh, you know, she killed a police officer and blah, blah.

02:20:06.903 --> 02:20:12.063
Well, first of all, testimony was given that she couldn't have been one of the

02:20:12.063 --> 02:20:13.963
shooters because she got shot with her hands up.

02:20:15.557 --> 02:20:19.437
And then if Kash Patel is saying, oh, well, she's bad, it's like,

02:20:19.537 --> 02:20:23.617
bruh, look in the mirror first before you start judging anybody.

02:20:23.897 --> 02:20:29.757
I swear to God, there's no way that there can be mirrors in the household of

02:20:29.757 --> 02:20:31.877
anybody that's affiliated with the Trump administration.

02:20:32.197 --> 02:20:37.077
There's no way. I think mirrors are barred. When you look at these shots of

02:20:37.077 --> 02:20:39.977
the White House, do you see any mirrors in the White House?

02:20:40.637 --> 02:20:44.417
They've done all this decorating and all this stuff and readjusting paintings

02:20:44.417 --> 02:20:47.937
and all that. But are there any mirrors in the building?

02:20:48.237 --> 02:20:52.537
I don't think they are because this whole deflection,

02:20:53.037 --> 02:21:01.357
you know, I could disagree on policy stuff, but character, nobody in this administration

02:21:01.357 --> 02:21:05.817
should say anything about anybody's character. Nobody.

02:21:06.557 --> 02:21:15.857
You are in because 48, 49% of the population voted for your guy to get the job.

02:21:16.537 --> 02:21:20.157
And because of the way that the electoral college is set up,

02:21:20.297 --> 02:21:22.077
he got more electoral college votes.

02:21:22.577 --> 02:21:26.577
That's it. It wasn't a landslide. It wasn't a mandate.

02:21:26.997 --> 02:21:31.737
It was a close race. And he ended up on top.

02:21:32.177 --> 02:21:37.637
Period. End of discussion. So all of you that have rolled in on this coattails

02:21:37.637 --> 02:21:41.817
that have been part of the administration, either as interim people or acting

02:21:41.817 --> 02:21:47.157
people or permanent people, just do us a favor and do the job.

02:21:47.437 --> 02:21:55.337
Stop trying to be these immoral folks, especially if you're going after black

02:21:55.337 --> 02:21:57.617
folks that you have no history of whatsoever.

02:21:57.617 --> 02:22:04.857
You probably didn't even know Sada Shakur existed until somebody gave you a

02:22:04.857 --> 02:22:07.617
dossier about, oh, this is why she's famous.

02:22:08.237 --> 02:22:12.257
Or you pulled it up on Wikipedia. And if you actually pulled it up on Wikipedia,

02:22:12.597 --> 02:22:14.657
you probably wouldn't have said the things that you said.

02:22:15.577 --> 02:22:20.197
Nonetheless, rest in power, Sister Shakur. Yeah.

02:22:21.037 --> 02:22:24.317
Yeah, rest in power, Sister. You know,

02:22:24.617 --> 02:22:31.317
I just wish that there had been a situation where her name could have been cleared

02:22:31.317 --> 02:22:37.357
before she passed away, but it is what it is, and we'll move on.

02:22:39.296 --> 02:22:44.496
Character. This is what I really wanted to talk about. And I can't promise it's

02:22:44.496 --> 02:22:45.896
going to be short, but I'm going to try.

02:22:46.776 --> 02:22:53.476
I just got a real problem with all of this craziness.

02:22:54.216 --> 02:23:02.376
You get 800 generals to show up from all over the globe to show up and then

02:23:02.376 --> 02:23:05.256
tell them that I don't want anybody fat.

02:23:06.196 --> 02:23:11.396
I don't want to see any more black people or women getting promoted.

02:23:12.996 --> 02:23:17.616
I don't want to deal with any LGBTQ folks in the military.

02:23:18.896 --> 02:23:22.436
You could have done that in a Zoom call. You could have done that in the email.

02:23:23.156 --> 02:23:29.456
You could have recorded a message and shipped that out on the World Wide Web,

02:23:29.456 --> 02:23:34.816
you know, YouTube channel or any military provision,

02:23:35.136 --> 02:23:40.356
you know, where you could directly talk to these commanders instead of spending

02:23:40.356 --> 02:23:42.096
American taxpayer dollars.

02:23:42.996 --> 02:23:48.116
Right. It's so funny that they say, oh, well, you know, we're trying to save

02:23:48.116 --> 02:23:52.076
money and we're trying to cut the deficit and all that. And then you spend money

02:23:52.076 --> 02:23:56.136
to fly every major commander in the U.S.

02:23:56.316 --> 02:24:03.956
Military to one spot in Quantico, Virginia, to lecture them about fat generals.

02:24:05.076 --> 02:24:08.036
Fat soldiers, woke initiatives.

02:24:08.756 --> 02:24:09.916
For what?

02:24:10.896 --> 02:24:17.256
Hubris. Ego. That's what. lack of character, lack of moral standing,

02:24:17.516 --> 02:24:22.396
lack of comprehension of the task at hand.

02:24:23.276 --> 02:24:30.196
You know, this is not ideology that we are dealing with.

02:24:30.896 --> 02:24:35.336
Some people might argue that, you know, they'll say that white supremacy is an ideology.

02:24:35.336 --> 02:24:46.316
I say it is an idiot-ology, right? or idiotocracy, I think is the word that we've coined.

02:24:47.096 --> 02:24:52.956
But it's not about differences of political theorem or thought.

02:24:53.196 --> 02:24:59.796
This is about character, man. These people have no character.

02:25:01.076 --> 02:25:03.016
They don't have a high standard.

02:25:05.690 --> 02:25:09.690
People with high standards would not pull these kind of stunts.

02:25:10.510 --> 02:25:15.970
People with high standards wouldn't just blow up ships for no reason.

02:25:16.410 --> 02:25:19.830
Now, they're saying that, oh, these people are drug traffickers and all that stuff.

02:25:21.810 --> 02:25:28.750
You're playing battleship with boats. It's like, how about interdiction?

02:25:29.670 --> 02:25:35.110
These folks are doing something or they're being accused of doing something.

02:25:35.450 --> 02:25:40.850
I mean, you know, we saw this in like science fiction shows, you know, Judge Dredd.

02:25:41.310 --> 02:25:46.510
You know, we were going to, you committed a crime and we're going to execute you right there.

02:25:47.010 --> 02:25:54.370
Right? Now, I'm not saying the people that died in these boat explosions are going to be canonized.

02:25:54.930 --> 02:25:58.570
You know, they might not be good people at all.

02:25:58.750 --> 02:26:03.610
But there's a process in how we do things, and people with character understand that.

02:26:04.130 --> 02:26:10.310
People with character would not go against the Constitution each and every day that they exist.

02:26:10.510 --> 02:26:15.970
You take an oath to uphold the very document that you seek to destroy and defy

02:26:15.970 --> 02:26:17.950
every day. That's not character.

02:26:18.770 --> 02:26:24.930
How can we discuss finding solutions to the problems that Americans have to

02:26:24.930 --> 02:26:28.350
deal with if we're not dealing with high-character individuals?

02:26:30.070 --> 02:26:34.650
Right? Now, I guess you can make that argument in the United States over 249

02:26:34.650 --> 02:26:37.050
years that we've navigated around that.

02:26:37.670 --> 02:26:45.010
But my God, not at this level where nobody has the wearable male,

02:26:45.350 --> 02:26:50.230
female, dog, cat to look at the president of the United States and say, sir, that's a bad idea.

02:26:50.710 --> 02:26:53.770
In the first administration, they did, but not this one.

02:26:54.430 --> 02:26:59.790
And then it's like you let the folks that have crazy ideas do what they want

02:26:59.790 --> 02:27:02.190
to do. Oh, no, we're not going to have any vaccines.

02:27:03.330 --> 02:27:06.830
And all of a sudden, measles pops back up. What?

02:27:07.570 --> 02:27:16.410
I mean, you got the FBI director giving out challenge coins that look like a

02:27:16.410 --> 02:27:21.190
ripoff of the Punisher's logo from the Marvel comics. What are we doing?

02:27:22.490 --> 02:27:27.830
What are we doing? We have a Justice Department that thinks that they're not

02:27:27.830 --> 02:27:31.470
the Justice Department, they're the Trump Corporation Legal Department.

02:27:32.050 --> 02:27:35.210
We're going to sue everybody that's pissed off Donald Trump,

02:27:35.230 --> 02:27:39.750
and we're going to put in jail anybody that tried to put Donald Trump in jail

02:27:39.750 --> 02:27:43.270
for all the criminal acts that he's done. What are we doing?

02:27:43.950 --> 02:27:49.170
Right? I don't care what they try to tell you.

02:27:49.570 --> 02:27:52.410
Nobody voted for that. Right?

02:27:53.402 --> 02:27:57.742
There are people, well, let me take that back, because there are some people

02:27:57.742 --> 02:28:01.922
that read Project 2025 and were not alarmed.

02:28:02.042 --> 02:28:06.882
They actually said, eh, we'll see if this works. There's some people that are like that.

02:28:07.522 --> 02:28:13.662
But the majority of the voters were making a judgment call, who's going to lower

02:28:13.662 --> 02:28:15.042
the price of my groceries?

02:28:15.462 --> 02:28:19.202
Who's going to help the housing crisis? Who's going to make sure that there's

02:28:19.202 --> 02:28:21.742
jobs available for me or my children to get?

02:28:22.382 --> 02:28:27.722
And based on even recent polling, people are saying, well, we still think the

02:28:27.722 --> 02:28:29.602
Republicans would do a better job than the Democrats.

02:28:29.742 --> 02:28:31.902
It might actually have been worse if the Democrats were there.

02:28:31.962 --> 02:28:35.342
There's people that still think that. It's polling data that's showing that.

02:28:37.082 --> 02:28:41.162
So people were not voting for lack of character.

02:28:41.582 --> 02:28:47.222
They weren't voting for people to be in these offices that didn't have a backbone.

02:28:47.742 --> 02:28:49.102
They weren't voting for that.

02:28:49.922 --> 02:28:55.962
They weren't voting for people who were moral reprobates, except maybe the president.

02:28:56.322 --> 02:28:59.462
They weren't voting for that. That wasn't on their mind.

02:29:00.382 --> 02:29:05.522
I promise you that. I promise you the majority of Americans that voted for our

02:29:05.522 --> 02:29:07.262
current president didn't think that.

02:29:07.622 --> 02:29:10.022
They were thinking in selfish terms.

02:29:10.622 --> 02:29:18.002
I need some help with my household expenses. I need help living in America.

02:29:18.602 --> 02:29:23.542
And they felt this guy was saying he was going to do it. So they believed him

02:29:23.542 --> 02:29:25.222
over the vice president.

02:29:26.062 --> 02:29:27.822
Their attitude was, well, the vice

02:29:27.822 --> 02:29:31.182
president had four years along with the president to fix these things.

02:29:31.362 --> 02:29:34.542
What makes you think that she's going to do anything now that when she's in

02:29:34.542 --> 02:29:36.182
charge? That's what people were thinking.

02:29:37.122 --> 02:29:40.482
Now, I'm not counting the folks that didn't vote for her because she didn't

02:29:40.482 --> 02:29:46.302
take the position they wanted on any issue, whether it was God's or anything else.

02:29:47.062 --> 02:29:51.262
Just talking about the average ordinary American voter that showed up out of

02:29:51.262 --> 02:29:54.342
the 150 million people that did. Right.

02:29:55.622 --> 02:30:04.302
Now, there were 75, 6 million people that felt like, yeah, she's got to be good. Right.

02:30:04.942 --> 02:30:08.462
So, you know, it wasn't like.

02:30:09.142 --> 02:30:10.762
He fooled everybody.

02:30:11.662 --> 02:30:15.422
You know, and there's some people, they didn't even care about whether we have

02:30:15.422 --> 02:30:18.862
a democracy or not. I mean, that's just a term, right?

02:30:19.382 --> 02:30:22.242
I mean, we're still going to be able to vote. We're still going to be able to,

02:30:22.302 --> 02:30:26.982
you know, go to, kids go to school and go to the library.

02:30:27.262 --> 02:30:29.842
And surely he's not going to mess with any of that stuff. I mean,

02:30:29.902 --> 02:30:31.762
that's American values.

02:30:32.542 --> 02:30:33.922
He's not going to destroy that.

02:30:34.782 --> 02:30:39.642
But, you know, people that don't have any character, people don't have any real

02:30:39.642 --> 02:30:48.302
self-esteem. people that don't have any security in their own skin always have to flex. Right.

02:30:49.280 --> 02:30:54.160
Have to flex. They always got to show that they belong.

02:30:55.600 --> 02:31:00.760
And, you know, you deal with people like that at work. You deal with people like that in school.

02:31:00.960 --> 02:31:05.420
You deal with people like that, you know, if you're playing basketball at the gym.

02:31:06.380 --> 02:31:09.060
But you don't want those kind of people leading the country.

02:31:09.880 --> 02:31:14.260
You just don't. And this is evidence why.

02:31:15.460 --> 02:31:20.440
Would we have had a government shutdown? down, maybe, to Democrats,

02:31:20.720 --> 02:31:24.780
maybe, because I'm sure the Republicans and Democrats would have disagreed on

02:31:24.780 --> 02:31:27.180
something and would have held the budget resolution hostage.

02:31:27.940 --> 02:31:32.580
That's the way they politic now. I think that's stupid, but that's where we are.

02:31:32.920 --> 02:31:36.040
Because if they did their jobs, there'd be a budget.

02:31:36.920 --> 02:31:41.240
Every year, every fiscal year, we have a budget and keep it moving.

02:31:41.480 --> 02:31:43.080
If they had actually passed the

02:31:43.080 --> 02:31:47.000
balanced budget amendment, we would have a balanced budget. But I digress.

02:31:47.600 --> 02:31:54.340
Would we still have conflicts in the Middle East or in, you know,

02:31:54.460 --> 02:31:57.140
between Russia and Ukraine? Yeah, probably.

02:31:57.760 --> 02:32:06.640
Or in the Congo? Probably. But I'm sure that there would be more diplomacy involved

02:32:06.640 --> 02:32:10.920
other than trying to get the president the Nobel Peace Prize.

02:32:11.420 --> 02:32:16.500
I'm sure there would be something more substantive at stake like world peace

02:32:16.500 --> 02:32:19.040
or at least peace in the region.

02:32:20.280 --> 02:32:26.000
Right. You know, you wouldn't have a president. If Kamala Harris was president,

02:32:26.240 --> 02:32:33.480
I promise you she wouldn't be trying to outdo Barack Obama based on any insecurities she would have.

02:32:33.660 --> 02:32:38.180
If she was more progressive in policies and all that, so be it.

02:32:38.260 --> 02:32:39.280
History will dictate that.

02:32:40.960 --> 02:32:44.760
But it wouldn't be out of any insecurities she would have.

02:32:47.803 --> 02:32:50.603
At a joke that he told her, right?

02:32:51.063 --> 02:32:54.943
And, you know, let's just deal with the reality of the fact.

02:32:55.143 --> 02:32:58.003
This man ran for president of the United States because the president of the

02:32:58.003 --> 02:33:01.043
United States pissed him off by telling a joke.

02:33:02.123 --> 02:33:06.063
Now, never mind that president's feelings about you questioning where he was

02:33:06.063 --> 02:33:11.483
born for over a year, because he clapped back on you in a public setting.

02:33:11.723 --> 02:33:15.883
I'm going to run for president and I'm going to try to get rid of his legacy.

02:33:16.843 --> 02:33:19.163
You're going to act like Pharaoh in the Ten Commandments.

02:33:20.503 --> 02:33:26.463
So it be done, right? That's insanity, man. That's insecurity.

02:33:26.743 --> 02:33:29.863
That's not embracing who you are.

02:33:30.863 --> 02:33:37.083
That's not reflecting on anything. It's not even close to evangelizing anything

02:33:37.083 --> 02:33:42.863
other than stupidity, hubris, ego.

02:33:43.803 --> 02:33:49.363
I just, you know, you're getting mad at comedians for making fun of you and

02:33:49.363 --> 02:33:53.843
stuff, but then you sit there and tell 800 generals,

02:33:54.103 --> 02:33:59.503
yeah, I try to walk slow so I won't fall down the plane. What are we doing?

02:34:00.603 --> 02:34:05.803
What are we doing? When this man was campaigning, he was talking about electric

02:34:05.803 --> 02:34:09.303
boats, shocking sharks or whatever.

02:34:09.783 --> 02:34:14.923
He was claiming that immigrants were eating dogs and cats. And he still got the most votes.

02:34:16.953 --> 02:34:20.253
Y'all that voted for him. I'm not. There's some people that are.

02:34:20.453 --> 02:34:22.493
They wear t-shirts every day that says it.

02:34:22.873 --> 02:34:27.073
There was a whole parade of people that had flags telling you how they felt

02:34:27.073 --> 02:34:28.593
about you and the president.

02:34:29.593 --> 02:34:37.333
But I'm not mad. I just think that we need to pay attention and do better. That's all.

02:34:38.153 --> 02:34:41.413
It's just, you know, I guess that's just my sports mentality.

02:34:42.893 --> 02:34:50.013
You know, coaching, whatever. It's like, these are what we call teachable moments.

02:34:50.893 --> 02:34:54.873
Even if we win the game, you know, let's correct our mistakes.

02:34:55.653 --> 02:34:59.893
Now, Donald Trump won the election, but America lost the game.

02:35:00.513 --> 02:35:03.833
And that's evident by all of this foolishness and.

02:35:06.393 --> 02:35:11.753
Crazy, misguided stuff that's going on. And then the one black guy we got in

02:35:11.753 --> 02:35:18.253
the administration, the one black guy uses the HUD website to start being,

02:35:18.713 --> 02:35:22.853
oh, it's the Democrats' fault that the HUD is going to be shut down.

02:35:23.093 --> 02:35:26.373
Bruh, that's not what you do. You don't do that.

02:35:26.833 --> 02:35:30.753
Your boss can do that because your boss actually had to run for the position.

02:35:30.753 --> 02:35:33.953
You were appointed by people who were elected.

02:35:34.413 --> 02:35:38.853
Some of them were Democrats. There were some Democrats that voted for you to have that job.

02:35:39.433 --> 02:35:45.993
You don't do that. You handle it like the elected or the appointed professional

02:35:45.993 --> 02:35:47.913
that you're supposed to be.

02:35:48.433 --> 02:35:51.853
Due to unfortunate circumstances, due to the government shutdown,

02:35:53.213 --> 02:35:56.893
services are going to be limited for a time uncertain.

02:35:57.493 --> 02:36:03.393
If you just had to post something on the website, i mean we just i don't know

02:36:03.393 --> 02:36:05.073
i guess you gotta support your team but,

02:36:06.433 --> 02:36:13.953
you know is this donald trump's signature oh no that's not a signature bro look at the check he wrote you,

02:36:15.533 --> 02:36:20.093
look at the campaign check he wrote you and match that up yeah that's his signature.

02:36:22.238 --> 02:36:29.598
What are we doing? You know, I just, we just got to do better, man.

02:36:31.018 --> 02:36:37.318
And I think it's coming. And I hope that we've had our teachable moment and

02:36:37.318 --> 02:36:41.378
now that regardless of which political party that you support,

02:36:41.838 --> 02:36:46.438
that you elect people who understand the gravitas of those positions,

02:36:46.638 --> 02:36:51.698
that understand the importance of the duty of serving the public.

02:36:52.498 --> 02:36:58.858
And that you're not out to try to destroy other Americans, but you're trying

02:36:58.858 --> 02:37:01.178
to figure out a way where all of us can coexist.

02:37:02.678 --> 02:37:07.398
That's what I'm praying for. That's what I'm hoping for. Now,

02:37:07.398 --> 02:37:11.058
I'm hoping that it will be within my lifetime that this gets fixed.

02:37:11.398 --> 02:37:14.078
I'm actually hoping it will be the next couple of elections.

02:37:15.178 --> 02:37:22.378
But we got to get back to at least the illusion of being civil,

02:37:22.798 --> 02:37:28.978
at least the illusion of being competent, at least the illusion of being respectable,

02:37:29.758 --> 02:37:32.618
at least the illusion of having character.

02:37:33.298 --> 02:37:36.518
We got to get back to that. We got to get back to that.

02:37:36.758 --> 02:37:42.998
We can't continue down this road. We need to rebuke foolishness.

02:37:44.078 --> 02:37:52.538
We do. Those of us of the Christian faith that understand that Satan is here

02:37:52.538 --> 02:37:55.278
to try to create confusion and all that stuff,

02:37:55.498 --> 02:38:01.758
and that from Genesis throughout, we were given the charge of having dominion

02:38:01.758 --> 02:38:04.278
over the earth, which meant dominion over Satan.

02:38:04.918 --> 02:38:06.638
We got to stop playing his game.

02:38:07.498 --> 02:38:11.838
Even the preachers that say that the president is a God-fearing man,

02:38:11.958 --> 02:38:13.158
we got to stop playing the game.

02:38:14.078 --> 02:38:18.998
You know, the Spirit of God dwells in all of us. Just some people don't listen to it, right?

02:38:19.318 --> 02:38:22.478
Some people don't adhere to it. Some people don't connect with it.

02:38:23.098 --> 02:38:27.858
But by the very essence that you live, that Spirit dwells within you.

02:38:28.438 --> 02:38:33.538
That's the Christian in me talking, right? For those of you who don't ascribe

02:38:33.538 --> 02:38:35.938
to the Christian faith or faith

02:38:35.938 --> 02:38:40.598
at all, there's decency in every human being. That's what Plato said.

02:38:41.178 --> 02:38:48.318
I'm not a Hobbesian. And I believe Plato was right, that there's decency in

02:38:48.318 --> 02:38:53.278
every human being inherently, and that evil is interjected into our lives.

02:38:53.698 --> 02:39:00.378
And so what I'm asking, what I'm imploring, what I'm hoping will happen is that

02:39:00.378 --> 02:39:06.018
decency becomes the fashion trend in American politics and civil discourse.

02:39:06.678 --> 02:39:08.358
Just be decent.

02:39:10.590 --> 02:39:13.930
See a car wreck, but nobody actually wants to be in one, right?

02:39:14.810 --> 02:39:19.850
This is a battle for democracy. Let's not get that twisted, because the people

02:39:19.850 --> 02:39:22.630
that don't have any character don't care about the Constitution.

02:39:23.510 --> 02:39:27.510
But this is also a battle for decency, because we can win this war,

02:39:28.270 --> 02:39:35.390
we can win this fight by being decent, by being people who understand the importance

02:39:35.390 --> 02:39:39.130
of character and trust and service.

02:39:39.990 --> 02:39:46.570
We just got to elect them and we got to start holding people accountable,

02:39:46.850 --> 02:39:51.750
whether it's in public office or in your private office. We just got to get there.

02:39:53.330 --> 02:39:57.050
So I'm going to leave y'all with that. Y'all have indulged me enough.

02:39:57.230 --> 02:39:59.670
Thank y'all for listening. Until next time.