Ending Racism & Maternal Mortality Featuring Jane Elliott and Alexandra Smalls

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.117
Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

00:00:06.417 --> 00:00:08.977
I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

00:00:09.337 --> 00:00:12.737
If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

00:00:13.257 --> 00:00:19.377
First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

00:00:19.757 --> 00:00:24.637
Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

00:00:24.637 --> 00:00:27.957
truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

00:00:28.557 --> 00:00:32.837
Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

00:00:32.837 --> 00:00:35.577
listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

00:00:36.437 --> 00:00:41.917
Third, go to the website, momenterik.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

00:00:42.297 --> 00:00:47.257
leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

00:00:47.857 --> 00:00:51.877
Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

00:00:52.577 --> 00:00:57.097
Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

00:00:57.097 --> 00:01:02.417
and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

00:01:02.417 --> 00:01:04.177
make this moment a movement.

00:01:04.537 --> 00:01:10.197
Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

00:01:11.337 --> 00:01:16.377
The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:55.920
Music.

00:01:56.663 --> 00:02:01.063
Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

00:02:01.523 --> 00:02:05.363
And this is the Memorial Day edition.

00:02:05.883 --> 00:02:13.363
So this is the day that we remember those who, through their military service,

00:02:14.183 --> 00:02:22.103
gave the ultimate sacrifice so that we in America could have a free existence,

00:02:22.663 --> 00:02:24.723
a democratic existence.

00:02:25.623 --> 00:02:32.523
And, you know, that's saying something, considering where we are.

00:02:33.343 --> 00:02:41.403
And, you know, it's days like this that remind us that there are human beings

00:02:41.403 --> 00:02:45.323
who, through courage, through commitment,

00:02:45.843 --> 00:02:49.703
that they're willing to die for something they believe in, right?

00:02:50.483 --> 00:02:58.343
And so, whether you served or not, this is a very important day for us.

00:02:59.183 --> 00:03:04.063
And, you know, this weekend, I'm sure a lot of people had barbecues and people

00:03:04.063 --> 00:03:08.203
were barbecuing today and, you know, the off work and all that.

00:03:08.363 --> 00:03:17.103
But just remember that the whole purpose of setting aside this day was to commemorate

00:03:17.103 --> 00:03:19.363
those who fought for our freedom.

00:03:20.383 --> 00:03:25.523
And if you understand the history of Memorial Day, you understand that this

00:03:25.523 --> 00:03:30.503
was a holiday that Black people started, right?

00:03:31.503 --> 00:03:37.283
And if you don't believe me, just look it up. You'll see who had the initial

00:03:37.283 --> 00:03:44.143
celebrations and how it evolved to where we recognize all soldiers who have done this.

00:03:46.023 --> 00:03:53.203
And so because this is a special edition, I just wanted to do something a little different.

00:03:53.483 --> 00:03:59.143
So Grace is not going to be with us today, but we're going to go right into the interviews.

00:04:00.163 --> 00:04:04.163
And one of the interviews that,

00:04:05.647 --> 00:04:11.987
Well, let me put it this way. The first interview I have is a woman who has

00:04:11.987 --> 00:04:16.027
dedicated her life to end racism in the United States.

00:04:16.767 --> 00:04:20.907
And she's been doing this work almost as long as I've been alive.

00:04:22.967 --> 00:04:28.747
And for her to accept the invitation to come on this podcast was a major,

00:04:28.887 --> 00:04:32.087
major honor for me, very humbling for me.

00:04:32.087 --> 00:04:37.607
And so I want y'all to hear her interview first,

00:04:37.607 --> 00:04:46.247
and then there'll be another sister coming on who talks about an issue that

00:04:46.247 --> 00:04:48.547
Black women have been dealing with,

00:04:48.807 --> 00:04:54.447
and that's maternal mortality, right?

00:04:55.507 --> 00:05:00.827
And this young lady comes from a very, very unique perspective in that.

00:05:02.047 --> 00:05:09.147
So, but now the first lady that I'm interviewing is, she's not going to be upset,

00:05:09.147 --> 00:05:14.947
but she's going to be disappointed because I still use the term black and all this stuff.

00:05:15.087 --> 00:05:19.567
And her whole mission, just like a previous guest I've had in the past,

00:05:19.747 --> 00:05:23.287
is to get us out of using that kind of language.

00:05:23.287 --> 00:05:31.067
But she understands at least she understands my position on that but you know we're,

00:05:31.898 --> 00:05:37.198
We'll see how it goes, but as long as she's with us, she's going to try to get

00:05:37.198 --> 00:05:45.338
us in the right direction to realize that all of us are just human and all of us are brown, right?

00:05:45.778 --> 00:05:49.918
We're all related, and you'll hear all that in the interview.

00:05:50.178 --> 00:05:53.358
And this lady I'm talking about is Jane Elliott.

00:05:54.638 --> 00:06:01.538
Jane Elliott was chosen as one of Peter Jennings' ABC TV's Persons of the Week.

00:06:01.898 --> 00:06:09.298
Jane is the adapter of the blue eyes, brown eyes discrimination experiment.

00:06:10.118 --> 00:06:16.378
The sensitizing exercise in which participants are labeled inferior or superior

00:06:16.378 --> 00:06:21.058
based on the color of their eyes began in a third grade classroom in an all

00:06:21.058 --> 00:06:24.218
white, all Christian Riceville, Iowa,

00:06:24.958 --> 00:06:26.898
immediately after the assassination of Dr.

00:06:27.018 --> 00:06:32.258
Martin Luther King Jr. It has been repeated with dramatic results with children

00:06:32.258 --> 00:06:33.958
and adults throughout the country.

00:06:34.298 --> 00:06:38.298
Those who have been through this exercise have said that it is an emotionally

00:06:38.298 --> 00:06:40.438
significant and life-changing experience.

00:06:40.758 --> 00:06:46.618
This groundbreaking exercise is the pinnacle of all other diversity programming in the country today.

00:06:47.538 --> 00:06:52.898
Several television documentaries have covered a work, among them ABC's The Eye

00:06:52.898 --> 00:06:58.458
of the Storm, which won the Peabody Award. A Class Divided, which dealt with

00:06:58.458 --> 00:07:01.958
the long-term impact of the exercise and Ms.

00:07:02.038 --> 00:07:08.398
Elliott's work with adults and was broadcast nationally on PBS's frontline series,

00:07:08.558 --> 00:07:13.218
The Eye of the Beholder, which also dealt with adults and their reactions to

00:07:13.218 --> 00:07:16.518
discrimination and was produced by Florida Public Television.

00:07:16.518 --> 00:07:22.338
Both the latter films received an Emmy Award and most recently released award-winning

00:07:22.338 --> 00:07:25.438
film The Angry Eye is also available for purchase.

00:07:26.551 --> 00:07:31.651
The Angry Eye is a dynamic and provocative documentary showcasing Jane Elliott's

00:07:31.651 --> 00:07:35.391
world-famous blue-eyed, brown-eyed exercise in discrimination.

00:07:35.831 --> 00:07:39.671
The tables are turned on white American college students as they are forced

00:07:39.671 --> 00:07:43.331
to experience the same kind of racial treatment African Americans and other

00:07:43.331 --> 00:07:45.351
minorities have been receiving for years.

00:07:45.511 --> 00:07:49.931
In the documentary, students' reactions are intercut with Elliott's observations.

00:07:49.931 --> 00:07:54.951
The film is disturbing, both for the participants and for the viewers who are

00:07:54.951 --> 00:07:57.011
made to confront their own prejudices.

00:07:57.391 --> 00:08:01.731
Jane Elliott is a recipient of the National Mental Health Association Award

00:08:01.731 --> 00:08:02.931
for Excellence in Education.

00:08:03.131 --> 00:08:08.091
She has been a guest lecturer at numerous colleges and universities and has

00:08:08.091 --> 00:08:12.311
been a guest on a wide variety of television shows, including the Today Show,

00:08:12.671 --> 00:08:16.651
Tonight with Johnny Carson, Donna Hugh, and Oprah Winfrey Show.

00:08:17.391 --> 00:08:22.451
She is hailed as the leader in diversity training, a veteran presenter who has

00:08:22.451 --> 00:08:27.051
addressed groups ranging from colleges and universities to civil service organizations,

00:08:27.331 --> 00:08:30.211
elementary schools, corporations and businesses.

00:08:30.691 --> 00:08:36.151
Ladies and gentlemen, it is truly my distinct honor and privilege to have as

00:08:36.151 --> 00:08:40.351
a guest on this podcast, Jane Elliott.

00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:50.960
Music.

00:08:50.803 --> 00:08:59.703
All right. It is my honor and privilege to have Jane Elliott as a guest on this

00:08:59.703 --> 00:09:02.183
podcast. Ms. Elliott, how are you doing?

00:09:03.063 --> 00:09:06.523
I'm doing just fine. For my age, I'm still alive, so I'm doing just fine.

00:09:06.983 --> 00:09:10.423
Yeah, yeah. And you look and sound wonderful.

00:09:10.723 --> 00:09:14.983
And really, really, I say this with all sincerity. I'm really,

00:09:15.083 --> 00:09:16.923
really honored that you accepted my invitation.

00:09:17.523 --> 00:09:23.983
I reach out to a lot of people and every now and then I get somebody that I've

00:09:23.983 --> 00:09:29.103
admired for a long time, especially when it's about courage.

00:09:29.683 --> 00:09:36.443
And I've had the unique privilege to work with some people who exhibit a lot

00:09:36.443 --> 00:09:38.123
of courage and did things.

00:09:38.323 --> 00:09:42.663
So for you to be on the podcast, it's really, really an honor and a treat for

00:09:42.663 --> 00:09:45.143
me. So I thank you again for that.

00:09:45.523 --> 00:09:50.923
So let's get it started like I normally do. I usually do a couple of icebreakers.

00:09:51.403 --> 00:09:53.943
And the first icebreaker is a quote.

00:09:54.503 --> 00:10:00.123
So I want you to give me your interpretation of what this quote means to you.

00:10:01.063 --> 00:10:06.263
Liars are not believed for sooth, even liars tell the truth.

00:10:06.583 --> 00:10:07.963
What does that quote mean to you?

00:10:08.743 --> 00:10:12.283
That means that you must not vote for a Donald Trump.

00:10:15.943 --> 00:10:18.723
Liars are not relieved for soon even when liars tell

00:10:18.723 --> 00:10:22.603
the truth if you have a reputation for being a liar you might as well just shut

00:10:22.603 --> 00:10:26.703
up because nobody's going to believe anything that you say people need to learn

00:10:26.703 --> 00:10:31.683
that and practice that where our present so-called leader is concerned this

00:10:31.683 --> 00:10:36.983
is his stock in trade to lie as often as he can and lie about what he just lied about,

00:10:37.603 --> 00:10:42.303
So once you've gotten that label, you need to know that you shouldn't be listened

00:10:42.303 --> 00:10:43.663
to because you can't be trusted.

00:10:44.623 --> 00:10:51.603
Yeah. All right. So give me a number between 1 and 20.

00:10:52.748 --> 00:10:56.068
For what? So this is the other icebreaker.

00:10:56.288 --> 00:10:59.908
It's like, I just need a, I need you to give me a number and then I'll give

00:10:59.908 --> 00:11:01.688
you a question corresponding with that number.

00:11:02.308 --> 00:11:05.728
Oh, I see. I thought you were getting, like, wanting me to grade liars.

00:11:06.008 --> 00:11:10.168
No. Okay. Number 10 is, 10 is a good number. All right.

00:11:10.728 --> 00:11:17.388
What one fact do you wish people who voted differently than you in the last election knew?

00:11:17.948 --> 00:11:21.148
Either about how you voted, about the current state of the world,

00:11:21.328 --> 00:11:27.868
whatever. What one fact do you wish people who voted differently than you in the last election knew?

00:11:28.608 --> 00:11:32.648
I want people to know that this country right now, this society,

00:11:32.668 --> 00:11:35.048
is on the edge of losing its democracy.

00:11:35.688 --> 00:11:40.288
And that can happen because now they're going to arrange that women can vote

00:11:40.288 --> 00:11:43.908
only if they have the proper identification when they go to the polls.

00:11:44.228 --> 00:11:47.868
And that's a whole lot of us who do not have our original birth certificate.

00:11:48.008 --> 00:11:53.408
We may not have our original marriage license. We may, and if we don't have

00:11:53.408 --> 00:11:56.148
those and a passport, we won't be allowed to vote.

00:11:56.508 --> 00:12:01.188
This person, this group is trying to deny women the right to vote.

00:12:01.328 --> 00:12:05.628
And that means if it happens now, he will be so-called president.

00:12:05.628 --> 00:12:10.128
He'll become a king for the next, as long as he's alive. This is a very scary time.

00:12:10.328 --> 00:12:13.388
People need to realize that voting is absolutely essential.

00:12:13.608 --> 00:12:17.368
And they're trying to take away that right from women in this country today.

00:12:18.468 --> 00:12:25.208
Yeah. And that's a very important point because there are a lot of women who

00:12:25.208 --> 00:12:28.288
have been blessed to have been on this earth as long as you,

00:12:28.468 --> 00:12:31.208
and especially from all of state Mississippi.

00:12:31.648 --> 00:12:36.408
When you get to us, it was like, I remember I had to go get a birth certificate

00:12:36.408 --> 00:12:42.448
for my dad, and my dad was born in 41, and there wasn't a birth certificate for him.

00:12:42.688 --> 00:12:47.568
I had to get something From the state that said, according to our records,

00:12:47.748 --> 00:12:51.168
he was born on this date, but it's an official state document, right?

00:12:51.929 --> 00:12:58.429
And so there's going to be a lot of women that fall in that category just in Mississippi alone.

00:12:58.789 --> 00:13:04.309
And many of them are going to be what we call women of color.

00:13:04.529 --> 00:13:10.449
You know that, and I know that. This is another attempt to rob people who don't look like dinosaurs T.

00:13:10.569 --> 00:13:13.949
Rump of the right to vote. And we have to put a stop to this.

00:13:14.809 --> 00:13:20.669
Yeah, yeah. I definitely agree with that. But so you constantly remind people

00:13:20.669 --> 00:13:24.529
that prejudice is an emotional commitment to ignorance.

00:13:24.689 --> 00:13:27.449
As a matter of fact, you wear a shirt all the time that says that.

00:13:28.009 --> 00:13:31.809
Would it be fair to say that during your time growing up in Riceville,

00:13:31.949 --> 00:13:36.369
Iowa, that you were living an innocent existence of ignorance?

00:13:36.769 --> 00:13:42.589
And was there any point prior to adulthood that you can go back and say that

00:13:42.589 --> 00:13:43.949
was an enlightening moment?

00:13:44.729 --> 00:13:48.209
Every time my father opened his mouth, it was an enlightening moment,

00:13:48.269 --> 00:13:51.769
but we didn't listen carefully. My father was a believing Baptist.

00:13:52.089 --> 00:13:56.789
My mother was a casual Catholic. So we've got two sides of that.

00:13:56.989 --> 00:14:01.609
And my father said, never judge a book by its cover, but don't be bringing any

00:14:01.609 --> 00:14:04.749
pickaninnies into my house as grandchildren. So there we were.

00:14:05.049 --> 00:14:08.829
He absolutely believed in telling the truth. But when he said that,

00:14:08.969 --> 00:14:12.929
I realized that, wait a minute, Dad. You say, don't judge a book by its cover

00:14:12.929 --> 00:14:18.029
or a man by the color of his skin, and yet you don't want any pickaninnies in your grandchildren.

00:14:18.429 --> 00:14:23.529
I'll never forget the day my Saudi Arabian son-in-law and my daughter brought

00:14:23.529 --> 00:14:29.469
their child up to our house and put her in my father's arms.

00:14:29.889 --> 00:14:34.189
And my father looked at that kid and said, it's the most beautiful child I've ever seen.

00:14:34.309 --> 00:14:38.529
And then he looked up at those two young people and he said, that's a good cross.

00:14:39.009 --> 00:14:42.769
My father was a farmer, and he recognized a good cross when he saw it.

00:14:42.829 --> 00:14:45.589
He said, that's a good cross. He absolutely adored.

00:14:46.627 --> 00:14:50.587
And he could stand that son-in-law in spite of his religion,

00:14:50.927 --> 00:14:55.027
in spite of the color of the skin, because that's a good cross. Yeah.

00:14:56.847 --> 00:15:02.547
So I believe that your Damascus Road experience took place in Waterloo,

00:15:02.687 --> 00:15:06.427
Iowa, when you and your husband were trying to rent out your apartment.

00:15:06.847 --> 00:15:10.147
Talk to the listeners about that pivotal moment in your life.

00:15:10.947 --> 00:15:18.587
We were trying to rent our house because the store had lost its business,

00:15:18.787 --> 00:15:22.727
moved across the street, moved across the river. So we were trying to sell our house.

00:15:23.307 --> 00:15:28.247
And the woman called and said, do you rent to coloreds? And I said,

00:15:28.467 --> 00:15:29.887
this is an all-white neighborhood.

00:15:30.507 --> 00:15:35.867
And I had up to that point sworn that I would never cooperate with racism because

00:15:35.867 --> 00:15:39.127
Waterloo was a racist community. I wouldn't cooperate with it.

00:15:39.127 --> 00:15:43.107
My husband had a job running a store on the North End, which was the so-called black section.

00:15:43.267 --> 00:15:45.387
And I swore I'd never cooperate with racism.

00:15:45.607 --> 00:15:48.147
And then I said, this is an all-white community.

00:15:48.407 --> 00:15:50.207
And I knew what I had done.

00:15:50.527 --> 00:15:53.467
And I was embarrassed. I was ashamed. And I was mortified.

00:15:54.247 --> 00:15:59.447
And I swore I would never do that again or cooperate with that again. And I haven't.

00:16:00.087 --> 00:16:04.707
I learned a lot that day. I learned a lot about myself, about my society,

00:16:05.067 --> 00:16:09.847
about democracy, and about racism. So talk about that lesson.

00:16:10.347 --> 00:16:17.407
So, you know, because you said that you didn't want to cooperate,

00:16:17.407 --> 00:16:22.647
but at that moment you felt that you did. What did you learn about yourself

00:16:22.647 --> 00:16:24.887
that you said never again?

00:16:25.567 --> 00:16:34.327
I learned that when push comes to shove, we'll do what is most convenient or most favorable for us.

00:16:34.967 --> 00:16:39.807
And I knew what I had done. And I wondered then, how often have you done things

00:16:39.807 --> 00:16:45.687
without even thinking about it that were racist in how you did them and what

00:16:45.687 --> 00:16:46.647
you did and what you said?

00:16:46.787 --> 00:16:49.507
How many times have I done that very thing?

00:16:49.867 --> 00:16:52.847
I didn't think that I had, but I will never forget that one.

00:16:52.847 --> 00:16:55.167
I will never, as long as I live, forget that one.

00:16:55.467 --> 00:17:02.127
And I can't fix it, but I've tried very hard to overcome that ignorance.

00:17:02.907 --> 00:17:05.787
Self-imposed ignorance is going to be the death of this country.

00:17:06.227 --> 00:17:10.027
If we don't start to learn about what this is all about, if these so-called

00:17:10.027 --> 00:17:14.947
white people don't start to realize that they don't exist, I wear a sign on

00:17:14.947 --> 00:17:17.567
my shirt that says we're all shades of brown because we are.

00:17:17.807 --> 00:17:20.847
There are no white people. There are no black people. There are no yellow or

00:17:20.847 --> 00:17:24.027
red people we're all shades of brown because we all came from the same place

00:17:24.027 --> 00:17:28.967
and once we get it into our heads that we're all one race and one color group

00:17:28.967 --> 00:17:34.587
we could do away with a whole lot of unpleasantness can you imagine a world

00:17:34.587 --> 00:17:38.787
a country in which you did not accept,

00:17:39.768 --> 00:17:44.968
or reject people based on the color of their skin, on the amount of a chemical in their skin.

00:17:45.328 --> 00:17:48.468
Can you imagine that kind of country? We could have that.

00:17:48.828 --> 00:17:53.408
If we are what we say you are, the land of the free and the home of the brave, nonsense.

00:17:54.088 --> 00:17:56.568
We're the land of the white and the home of the ignorant.

00:17:57.708 --> 00:18:00.308
It's being changed for us, whether we like it or not, we like it.

00:18:00.648 --> 00:18:06.088
Only 15 to 18 percent of the human population of the earth is classified as white.

00:18:06.528 --> 00:18:10.328
That's a misnomer. We aren't white. We are shades of brown, but we've got this

00:18:10.328 --> 00:18:13.448
idea of white in our heads, and we can't get it out, but we're going to have to.

00:18:13.988 --> 00:18:18.428
Very shortly, within 25 years now, it was 30 before, but within 25 years,

00:18:19.128 --> 00:18:23.708
this country will, white people, so-called white people, will be a minority

00:18:23.708 --> 00:18:28.828
group in this country, and that's what a whole lot of pale, stale males are scared to death of.

00:18:29.128 --> 00:18:35.048
They're afraid that these people who are white are going to treat us the way we have treated them.

00:18:35.608 --> 00:18:37.968
If they believe in the golden rule, we're in trouble.

00:18:38.568 --> 00:18:42.348
Treat others the way you want to be treated? No, we don't treat others the way we want to be treated.

00:18:42.588 --> 00:18:46.088
We pale, stale people do not treat others the way we want to be treated.

00:18:46.248 --> 00:18:50.488
We treat them the way we want to treat them based on our ignorance about skin color.

00:18:50.988 --> 00:18:53.468
I don't believe in the golden rule. I believe in the platinum rule.

00:18:53.548 --> 00:18:56.048
Do unto others as others would have you do unto them.

00:18:56.428 --> 00:18:59.588
And in order to know how somebody else wants to be treated, I can't walk up

00:18:59.588 --> 00:19:01.268
to them and say, what do people want?

00:19:01.448 --> 00:19:05.188
I have to study. I have to learn. I have to listen. I have to read.

00:19:05.348 --> 00:19:08.948
I have to try to figure out how it is that they are, how their difference,

00:19:09.268 --> 00:19:12.428
their wishes are different from my own. And then I have to act that.

00:19:12.668 --> 00:19:16.028
The golden rule has been misused long enough as far as I'm concerned.

00:19:16.928 --> 00:19:21.888
Yeah. And I'm a I'm a drill down on what you just said and another question.

00:19:22.048 --> 00:19:23.528
But I want to ask you this one first.

00:19:24.028 --> 00:19:27.448
It has been thoroughly documented that the assassination of Dr.

00:19:27.568 --> 00:19:33.928
King motivated you to conduct the first brown eyes, blue eyes exercise with your third grade class.

00:19:34.288 --> 00:19:37.968
What was it about Dr. King that inspired you so?

00:19:39.110 --> 00:19:45.370
All he wanted was for all of us to be treated fairly, not equally, but equitably.

00:19:45.950 --> 00:19:50.790
What is wrong with that? What was wrong with that is he had the wrong color skin. I was furious.

00:19:51.070 --> 00:19:54.170
I had lived in Waterloo, Iowa for a number of years.

00:19:54.950 --> 00:20:00.970
Our children were born there, and my husband's best friends were not white,

00:20:01.730 --> 00:20:06.030
and neither were my husband and I, but we thought we were. I was absolutely

00:20:06.030 --> 00:20:08.570
offended and disgusted and angered.

00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:15.350
And I listened to the palestale males on television that night as they discussed

00:20:15.350 --> 00:20:16.870
the killing of Martin Luther King Jr.

00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:21.750
One of them said to three leaders of the black community, when our leader was

00:20:21.750 --> 00:20:23.170
killed, his widow held us together.

00:20:23.470 --> 00:20:25.470
Who's going to keep your people in line?

00:20:25.830 --> 00:20:28.470
And our leader was killed. Martin Luther King Jr.

00:20:29.110 --> 00:20:30.810
Was the leader of all of us.

00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:34.470
JFK was the leader of all of us, not just the white people. Who's going to keep

00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:36.550
your people in line. So I changed the channel.

00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:41.930
And there's another brilliant male, stale male saying, don't you Negroes think

00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:45.110
you should feel sympathy for us white people because we can't feel the anger

00:20:45.110 --> 00:20:48.190
at this telling that you Negroes can? I was furious.

00:20:48.790 --> 00:20:52.710
How dare he ask such a question? How dare he think such a thing?

00:20:52.810 --> 00:20:56.810
And how dare he say it out loud on television? I was furious.

00:20:56.990 --> 00:21:00.910
At that moment, I decided I was going to do what I had thought about doing.

00:21:01.616 --> 00:21:04.376
I was going to separate my students according to the color of their eyes the

00:21:04.376 --> 00:21:07.496
next day, and I was going to treat those who had the wrong color eyes the way

00:21:07.496 --> 00:21:10.296
we have treated the Jews in this country for a whole lot of years,

00:21:10.596 --> 00:21:13.656
the way we have treated people who are other than what we call black in this

00:21:13.656 --> 00:21:14.796
country for a whole lot of years.

00:21:15.056 --> 00:21:21.616
I was going to expose them to the ugliness of racism based on a physical characteristic

00:21:21.616 --> 00:21:22.936
over which they had no control.

00:21:23.276 --> 00:21:26.116
I didn't know how this would work. If I had known how it would work,

00:21:26.176 --> 00:21:27.556
I probably wouldn't have done it.

00:21:27.556 --> 00:21:31.876
If I had known what was going to happen to me and my family, my husband,

00:21:32.256 --> 00:21:36.116
my siblings as a result of that, I would have said to myself,

00:21:36.336 --> 00:21:41.056
no, I'll just get through the day and not talk about it, which is what the other

00:21:41.056 --> 00:21:42.916
teachers did, just not talk about it.

00:21:42.996 --> 00:21:48.936
Or a couple of them made such remarks in the teacher's lounge that I realized

00:21:48.936 --> 00:21:55.456
that they couldn't possibly be treating that in a logical or even non-caring manner. It was awful.

00:21:55.616 --> 00:21:57.936
The remarks in the teacher's lounge were absolutely terrible,

00:21:57.936 --> 00:22:03.736
which solidified my determination to have those kids go through an exercise

00:22:03.736 --> 00:22:05.496
in color based on the color of

00:22:05.496 --> 00:22:10.036
their eyes in order for them to understand not only how it felt to do it,

00:22:10.156 --> 00:22:13.656
but how it felt to be on the receding end of it. And that's what I did.

00:22:14.596 --> 00:22:18.876
See, I'm going to push back on you a little bit because I think that you would have done it.

00:22:18.876 --> 00:22:23.956
You may not have done it that day, but I think just in the brief interaction

00:22:23.956 --> 00:22:28.016
I'm having with you right now, I think at some point in time,

00:22:28.016 --> 00:22:31.096
you would have done that. You would have conducted that experiment.

00:22:31.296 --> 00:22:36.076
It may not have been out of your frustration and anger like the next day,

00:22:36.096 --> 00:22:40.336
but I think because you have this experience.

00:22:41.424 --> 00:22:49.024
Firing you to deal with this problem in America, and you had this opportunity

00:22:49.024 --> 00:22:52.984
to shape young lives, I think eventually you would have done it.

00:22:53.184 --> 00:22:54.844
Do you disagree with that?

00:22:55.304 --> 00:22:59.944
No, I don't disagree with that because I talked about it the previous year. I just didn't do it.

00:23:00.164 --> 00:23:03.384
I knew about it. I knew what Hitler—I'd been saying all about Hitler.

00:23:03.544 --> 00:23:08.604
I read all the stuff about Hitler. Oh, God, my two of my uncles fought in the Second World War.

00:23:08.904 --> 00:23:14.004
I knew about what what results if you continue to let somebody,

00:23:14.144 --> 00:23:19.064
let a leader act the way that do what was happening in this country that day.

00:23:19.364 --> 00:23:23.264
So I knew, no, I probably would have done it, but I might have told my children,

00:23:23.764 --> 00:23:26.924
here's what I'm going to do, and here's what's going to happen to you as a result of it.

00:23:27.444 --> 00:23:30.584
I might have told my father, here's what I'm going to do, and he would have

00:23:30.584 --> 00:23:31.704
said, you want to think about that.

00:23:32.104 --> 00:23:35.324
If I had told my mother, she would have said, you're not a member of this family

00:23:35.324 --> 00:23:37.984
anymore, because after my father died, she kicked me out of the family because

00:23:37.984 --> 00:23:41.624
of the exercise because it embarrassed her in that community.

00:23:41.804 --> 00:23:44.924
Well, there are only a thousand people in that community, but that's not so bad.

00:23:45.184 --> 00:23:49.624
But I have embarrassed that family worldwide because the exercise,

00:23:49.904 --> 00:23:51.204
and it's not an experiment.

00:23:51.484 --> 00:23:54.164
Please don't call it an experiment. It's an exercise in empathy.

00:23:54.704 --> 00:23:58.824
If you have never been through what a whole lot of people in this country go

00:23:58.824 --> 00:24:01.804
through on a daily basis, you can't possibly understand why they're angry,

00:24:02.324 --> 00:24:08.404
why they don't want to try, why they do things that seem to you absolutely unacceptable.

00:24:08.924 --> 00:24:13.524
But if you have treated a group of people as if they are unacceptable for all

00:24:13.524 --> 00:24:16.224
their lives, then what do you expect them to do?

00:24:16.504 --> 00:24:21.164
I think we have set ourselves up to fail, and we're going to fail unless we

00:24:21.164 --> 00:24:22.824
change this thing, change it now.

00:24:23.124 --> 00:24:27.004
However, we are now in a situation where changing it is going to be up to the

00:24:27.004 --> 00:24:29.464
members of the Senate and the House of Representatives.

00:24:29.904 --> 00:24:33.784
And they better get off their polyunsaturated fatty acids and get this done.

00:24:34.264 --> 00:24:38.944
They'd better say no to the number one racist in the United States of America,

00:24:38.944 --> 00:24:40.444
and they'd better do it this week.

00:24:41.317 --> 00:24:45.617
Well, we'll see what the Senate does. It looks like the House is capitulated,

00:24:45.817 --> 00:24:53.357
but I want to get to the other part about the one race.

00:24:53.877 --> 00:24:57.497
Because I've had this lady on, her name is Dr. Sheena Mason,

00:24:57.497 --> 00:25:02.437
and she's famous for her work, The Theory of Racelessness.

00:25:03.957 --> 00:25:07.157
And she provides six tenets or core rules.

00:25:07.717 --> 00:25:10.657
So I just want you, we're going to go by one by one.

00:25:10.757 --> 00:25:15.617
And all I want you to say is that if you agree or disagree, and then if you

00:25:15.617 --> 00:25:20.497
want to explain after I go through the sixth, then, you know, you can go ahead.

00:25:20.497 --> 00:25:28.557
So, number one, racism is a socially constructed system of economic and social

00:25:28.557 --> 00:25:34.417
oppression that requires the belief in race and the practice of racialization

00:25:34.417 --> 00:25:38.897
to reinforce various power imbalances. Agree or disagree?

00:25:39.517 --> 00:25:44.757
Disagree. It's antisocial. It's an antisocial construct, not a social construct. Okay.

00:25:45.237 --> 00:25:51.877
All right. Two, race is an imaginary part of the socially constructed reality of racism.

00:25:53.057 --> 00:25:58.177
It's a lie. It's not imaginary. It's a lie. It's a deliberate lie.

00:25:58.957 --> 00:26:05.157
Okay. All right. Three, racialization is the process of applying an inescapable

00:26:05.157 --> 00:26:14.537
economic and social class hierarchy to humans that creates or reinforces power imbalances.

00:26:14.537 --> 00:26:16.557
It's not inescapable.

00:26:16.837 --> 00:26:21.077
It is absolutely escapable. It is absolutely, you can fix it.

00:26:22.037 --> 00:26:28.357
Okay. Four, the belief in race and the practice of racialization affect people differently.

00:26:28.677 --> 00:26:34.677
These differences serve to uphold the machinery of racism, acting as obstacles

00:26:34.677 --> 00:26:38.477
to unification, healing, and reconciliation.

00:26:39.157 --> 00:26:43.017
As long as we allow it, that's exactly what can happen. Okay.

00:26:43.517 --> 00:26:50.017
Five, the translation of what one means by race, including the presumed absence

00:26:50.017 --> 00:26:55.257
of race in any context, can lead to understanding and bridge making.

00:26:55.497 --> 00:27:01.117
The Racelessness Translator helps people interpret race into something being

00:27:01.117 --> 00:27:05.317
said about the causes and effects of racism, culture, ethnicity,

00:27:05.697 --> 00:27:09.197
social class, economic class, or some combination.

00:27:09.957 --> 00:27:14.817
The word race, to mean a separate group of people, came out of France in 1580.

00:27:15.097 --> 00:27:18.377
Before that, we were all just members of the family of man.

00:27:18.757 --> 00:27:24.577
The word race is a constructed idea that was a lie when it began, and it's a lie today.

00:27:25.897 --> 00:27:32.797
All right. And then six, racism does not exist everywhere in the same way and can be ended.

00:27:33.935 --> 00:27:37.135
And can be what? Ended. Absolutely.

00:27:37.415 --> 00:27:40.775
Absolutely. It had a beginning and it could have an ending if we decided to

00:27:40.775 --> 00:27:42.975
end it. And we could decide to end it today.

00:27:43.235 --> 00:27:47.535
If we could convince everybody that we are all members of the family of men

00:27:47.535 --> 00:27:50.255
and we all come in one color group, which is brown.

00:27:50.475 --> 00:27:56.755
We are all shades of brown because we all had ancestors who came out of sub-Saharan

00:27:56.755 --> 00:27:59.255
Africa about 300,000 years ago.

00:27:59.395 --> 00:28:02.655
And that's the way it is. Whether you like it or not, that's the way it is.

00:28:02.715 --> 00:28:04.775
You and I our 30th to 50th cousins.

00:28:05.255 --> 00:28:09.695
Like it or not, we are, because we are all members of the same family.

00:28:10.655 --> 00:28:16.075
All right. So now, Dr. Allison Wilts, who's a frequent contributor on Medium,

00:28:16.575 --> 00:28:21.455
offered this critique, and it's a critique of your work.

00:28:21.775 --> 00:28:27.735
She said, you see, as a diversity consultant, she encourages people to stop

00:28:27.735 --> 00:28:31.035
using racial monikers that describe themselves and others.

00:28:31.395 --> 00:28:36.695
However, she seems to be missing a key point, that Black people do not experience

00:28:36.695 --> 00:28:42.575
racism because they identify as Black, but because society is constructed in

00:28:42.575 --> 00:28:45.975
a way where Blackness is treated as a disadvantage.

00:28:46.275 --> 00:28:52.055
You cannot erase race with the hope of destroying racism. You have to challenge

00:28:52.055 --> 00:28:55.055
racism directly. What's your rebuttal to that?

00:28:55.655 --> 00:29:04.475
You have to change the idea of number of races or a number of skin colors or of a race.

00:29:04.695 --> 00:29:07.675
We are not a race. We are members of a family.

00:29:07.975 --> 00:29:12.495
And that family consists of people of many different shades of brown,

00:29:12.895 --> 00:29:17.075
all of whom are considered members of what we call the human race.

00:29:17.315 --> 00:29:22.015
There's only one race of people. It's the human race. And it's time to get that idea into our heads.

00:29:22.135 --> 00:29:25.155
Now, people who identify as black need

00:29:25.155 --> 00:29:27.955
to realize that they were here first and they will

00:29:27.955 --> 00:29:31.555
be here last because as we the hole

00:29:31.555 --> 00:29:34.415
in the ozone layer gets larger and larger and we

00:29:34.415 --> 00:29:39.555
more and more refuse to admit that this this society this kind this world this

00:29:39.555 --> 00:29:44.895
earth is governed by what happens with the sunlight as more and more pale faces

00:29:44.895 --> 00:29:50.715
get less and less sun less and less melanin in their skins you'll have more

00:29:50.715 --> 00:29:53.735
and more more and more cases of melanoma,

00:29:53.915 --> 00:29:57.935
which is a skin cancer that you get from not having enough melanin in your skin.

00:29:58.195 --> 00:30:02.615
And that cancer travels. It doesn't stay on your skin. It travels throughout your body.

00:30:02.755 --> 00:30:05.795
More and more people are dying of cancer. White people, so-called white people,

00:30:05.935 --> 00:30:07.415
are dying of cancer today.

00:30:07.815 --> 00:30:10.955
Eventually, these so-called white folks are going to say to themselves,

00:30:11.175 --> 00:30:14.595
if I want my children, my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren to survive,

00:30:14.855 --> 00:30:20.395
I'd better find someone who is other than what we call white with whom to reproduce. Yes.

00:30:20.756 --> 00:30:25.536
This idea of several different races and of one race, the so-called white race,

00:30:25.736 --> 00:30:28.116
being superior is going to kill us.

00:30:28.296 --> 00:30:33.316
And that's exactly what's happening right now. We need to realize that this was a lie to begin with.

00:30:33.516 --> 00:30:39.436
And if you're going to believe what began in the 1400s, if you're going to take

00:30:39.436 --> 00:30:45.296
that as your belief system, then you must also live as they lived in the 1400s.

00:30:45.296 --> 00:30:48.976
Men will come to work wearing knee britches and powdered wigs,

00:30:48.976 --> 00:30:53.856
and women won't go out of the house unless they're wearing a corset that keeps

00:30:53.856 --> 00:30:55.856
their waist no more than 18 inches around.

00:30:56.096 --> 00:31:01.656
You'll give up all electricity and things that we have since the 1400s.

00:31:01.716 --> 00:31:06.056
If you're going to continue to believe in the idea of race, I challenge you

00:31:06.056 --> 00:31:07.576
to live with what you believe.

00:31:07.736 --> 00:31:11.776
You don't want to live that way, and you won't live long. So you and Dr.

00:31:11.936 --> 00:31:18.376
Mason basically have said that, to rebut what Dr.

00:31:18.496 --> 00:31:25.576
Wiltz is saying, you basically say that if you stop identifying by race,

00:31:25.796 --> 00:31:30.716
if you stop classifying or government stop classifying people by race,

00:31:30.936 --> 00:31:36.056
that inherently racism will end. And I think what Dr.

00:31:36.196 --> 00:31:41.876
Wiltz is saying, that you've got to deal with the problem of racism,

00:31:41.876 --> 00:31:48.316
that mindset, before you get to the humanistic viewpoint.

00:31:49.016 --> 00:31:51.896
So you have you have to realize that

00:31:51.896 --> 00:31:55.656
the word race was made up in the 1400s in

00:31:55.656 --> 00:32:01.536
the 1500s and has been implemented ever since that time by people who consider

00:32:01.536 --> 00:32:04.996
themselves better than on the basis of the amount of chemical in their skin

00:32:04.996 --> 00:32:10.576
that's ridiculous and if if it were true those so-called white people would

00:32:10.576 --> 00:32:14.936
be so smart that they'd say to themselves this is killing us we're going to give up.

00:32:15.536 --> 00:32:19.616
And the minute they do that and decide to do that, then the problem will be ended.

00:32:21.616 --> 00:32:25.496
Race is an extremely profitable venture.

00:32:26.156 --> 00:32:32.816
And I've seen that in the last 10 years more than at any time in my life because I wasn't aware.

00:32:33.256 --> 00:32:36.876
But you need to realize that the reason we have the leadership we have right

00:32:36.876 --> 00:32:40.456
now is because of race and racism.

00:32:41.276 --> 00:32:46.636
Yeah. Well, I won't argue with you on that. I definitely agree on that point.

00:32:47.456 --> 00:32:48.756
Are you against reparations?

00:32:50.347 --> 00:32:53.587
Not if you're going to give them to the First Nations people first.

00:32:54.627 --> 00:33:02.767
Okay. So your argument is that if we're going to do reparations,

00:33:03.007 --> 00:33:10.367
then natives need to get it first and then the enslaved, generations of the enslaved people.

00:33:11.087 --> 00:33:14.827
Natives were enslaved as fast as we could enslave them, but they got away.

00:33:15.047 --> 00:33:18.407
We weren't successful because they could get into the nearest village and we

00:33:18.407 --> 00:33:19.887
couldn't tell which one we had enslaved.

00:33:20.347 --> 00:33:24.927
So that didn't begin with bringing blacks from what we call blacks from Africa.

00:33:24.947 --> 00:33:29.227
That began when Europeans came to this country and decided that their skin was

00:33:29.227 --> 00:33:30.427
lighter than the people who were here.

00:33:30.507 --> 00:33:35.907
So they deserve to have this land, to steal this land, to kill the people who

00:33:35.907 --> 00:33:39.327
lived on this land, to rape the women who lived on this land and to make it

00:33:39.327 --> 00:33:41.647
their own and to put those people on reservations.

00:33:42.427 --> 00:33:48.867
And young women, young women who are supposedly First Nations people disappear every year.

00:33:49.407 --> 00:33:52.487
Nobody looks for them because, after all, they're just what we call Indians.

00:33:52.827 --> 00:33:54.807
They weren't Indians until we told them they were.

00:33:55.287 --> 00:33:59.007
No, if you're going to give reparations, give reparations to the people who

00:33:59.007 --> 00:34:03.687
own this land first, and then give reparations to those that we brought here as slaves.

00:34:03.827 --> 00:34:07.927
But many of the people who brought those people as slaves had come here before

00:34:07.927 --> 00:34:10.127
there was slavery for people who were from Africa.

00:34:10.347 --> 00:34:16.887
They had come here as people traveling to another land, And they were also instrumental

00:34:16.887 --> 00:34:19.547
in bringing people from Africa here as slaves.

00:34:19.687 --> 00:34:25.827
So we're all mixed up in this together and we're all equally guilty of letting

00:34:25.827 --> 00:34:29.307
it happen or making it happen or making money because it's happening.

00:34:30.191 --> 00:34:34.971
So what would you, what's your response to the argument that,

00:34:35.031 --> 00:34:40.331
you know, the natives were able, or people of the First Nations, as you referred to them,

00:34:41.271 --> 00:34:47.231
were given a sort of reparations by designating land for them,

00:34:47.471 --> 00:34:50.471
whereas enslaved people.

00:34:51.431 --> 00:34:58.191
Black people, in my vernacular, or Africans, were not given,

00:34:58.191 --> 00:35:01.431
They didn't follow through on giving them land.

00:35:01.571 --> 00:35:03.871
They were promised 40 acres and a mule. They didn't get it.

00:35:04.411 --> 00:35:11.011
So how do you respond to that and say, well, at least the Native folks got,

00:35:11.031 --> 00:35:14.091
you know, at least they got land designated to them.

00:35:14.251 --> 00:35:19.011
Like Oklahoma, for example, over half of the state of Oklahoma is basically

00:35:19.011 --> 00:35:23.611
reserved for First Nation people. And?

00:35:26.211 --> 00:35:30.591
Yeah. And what does that prove? Does that prove that it's all right to steal

00:35:30.591 --> 00:35:36.751
the land from one group of people and then go to another country and buy from

00:35:36.751 --> 00:35:40.671
people who were the color of the people that you were going to bring over here as slaves?

00:35:40.891 --> 00:35:44.871
Pay them for those people and bring them over here and force them into slave labor?

00:35:45.071 --> 00:35:48.211
That makes sense to you. It makes no sense at all to me. But if you can get

00:35:48.211 --> 00:35:52.691
away with what we did with the First Nations people, if you can convince yourself

00:35:52.691 --> 00:35:57.851
that what we did was kind and generous and accepting and should be accepted,

00:35:58.211 --> 00:36:02.631
if you can convince yourself of that, why couldn't you convince yourself of

00:36:02.631 --> 00:36:05.771
bringing people from another country and enslaving them for their own good?

00:36:05.771 --> 00:36:10.251
And how many times have you heard somebody justify their racist behavior by

00:36:10.251 --> 00:36:15.531
saying to that person, to whom they are addressing in a racist way,

00:36:15.731 --> 00:36:16.971
well, this is for your own good.

00:36:17.411 --> 00:36:20.431
This is not for our own good. We need to fix the whole thing.

00:36:21.151 --> 00:36:26.211
First, you have to give reparations given to the first people that we offended.

00:36:27.451 --> 00:36:30.371
Okay so how do you deal with

00:36:30.371 --> 00:36:33.891
the criticism that because you are

00:36:33.891 --> 00:36:37.411
classified as white right and

00:36:37.411 --> 00:36:42.251
i always used to say light-skinned cousins whenever i refer to people that are

00:36:42.251 --> 00:36:46.911
identified as white folks i'm melanin let's put it right i'm melanemic okay

00:36:46.911 --> 00:36:51.531
it means i don't have much melanin yeah you're melanaceous you have more and

00:36:51.531 --> 00:36:54.971
i know people who are melanotic who have a lot of melanin in their skin.

00:36:55.151 --> 00:36:58.031
So let's just say melanemic. I'm melanemic. What's your question?

00:36:58.431 --> 00:37:03.591
All right. So how do you respond to people that say, because you're melanemic,

00:37:04.231 --> 00:37:09.791
it's easier for you to say, well, people that have a lot of melanin or even

00:37:09.791 --> 00:37:15.051
more melanin than me shouldn't get reparations right away?

00:37:15.931 --> 00:37:20.431
I'm saying they shouldn't get it until we have made reparations to those who were here first.

00:37:21.369 --> 00:37:25.269
Okay. All right. All right. So, final question.

00:37:26.049 --> 00:37:31.969
Do you think the current political climate in America is the truest representation of this country?

00:37:32.549 --> 00:37:36.469
And if you don't think it is, how do we fix it going forward?

00:37:37.149 --> 00:37:42.789
God, I hope it's not. How awful if what's going on in this country today politically

00:37:42.789 --> 00:37:46.229
is what this country deserves and what this whole country wants.

00:37:46.289 --> 00:37:48.469
I don't think that's what's going on here.

00:37:48.649 --> 00:37:53.829
I think that 42% of the Republican Party is composed of people who are badly

00:37:53.829 --> 00:37:58.349
educated, or not educated at all, or who are educated in such a way that they

00:37:58.349 --> 00:38:02.109
believed everything that their pale, stale male teachers told them.

00:38:02.829 --> 00:38:07.009
And I think until we have offered some true education, I'm an educator.

00:38:07.129 --> 00:38:09.789
The word educator comes from the root dup-dus, which means lead,

00:38:10.169 --> 00:38:13.849
the prefix e, which means out, the suffix a-t-e, which means the act of,

00:38:13.909 --> 00:38:15.569
and suffix o-r, which means one who does.

00:38:15.749 --> 00:38:19.529
An educator is one who is engaged in leading people out of ignorance.

00:38:19.749 --> 00:38:24.209
That is not what education is doing in this country. It is perpetuating ignorance.

00:38:24.209 --> 00:38:30.409
It is telling all the myths, all the lies, all the nonsense that I learned when

00:38:30.409 --> 00:38:32.249
I was in school, and I'm 91 years old.

00:38:32.369 --> 00:38:36.049
They should not be telling those same silly lies today, but they are.

00:38:36.169 --> 00:38:37.449
Columbus didn't discover America.

00:38:37.689 --> 00:38:41.309
This country was discovered by people from Africa many, many years,

00:38:41.469 --> 00:38:45.709
about 19,000 years before Columbus was a gleam in his father's eye.

00:38:45.889 --> 00:38:49.889
It's time to tell the truth instead of playing the game of educating.

00:38:50.049 --> 00:38:51.429
We are not educating people.

00:38:51.629 --> 00:38:54.349
We are perpetuating ignorance.

00:38:54.829 --> 00:39:03.189
And if that's what your tax money is going for, to continue to miseducate the

00:39:03.189 --> 00:39:05.069
American mind, then we've got a problem.

00:39:05.689 --> 00:39:10.649
We've got to stop it where it starts. Now, you can't stop in the delivery room,

00:39:10.649 --> 00:39:15.969
But you can start in preschool, and you can start telling the truth to students in preschool.

00:39:16.289 --> 00:39:21.029
You can start that by changing the map that we're using. Have you seen the Mercator map lately?

00:39:21.946 --> 00:39:25.046
With Greenland hanging down the kettle like a great big ripe plum.

00:39:25.706 --> 00:39:29.526
Mercator was commissioned by the Pope to make a map that showed the spread of Christianity.

00:39:30.086 --> 00:39:35.466
This whole thing began with Christianity, and the Pope perpetuated it with that map.

00:39:35.706 --> 00:39:39.286
If you haven't seen the Peter's projection map, get it and take a look at it,

00:39:39.366 --> 00:39:42.266
and realize that there's a different way to look at the world.

00:39:42.606 --> 00:39:46.586
Children have the right to see the Peter's projection map instead of the Mercator

00:39:46.586 --> 00:39:50.126
projection map, because what you do in the classroom determines how that kid

00:39:50.126 --> 00:39:52.026
is going to see the world when he leaves the classroom.

00:39:52.266 --> 00:39:54.566
It's time for us to change the things that they see.

00:39:55.086 --> 00:40:05.446
Right, because I remember that the Mercator map and the basic explanation is

00:40:05.446 --> 00:40:14.466
just trying to flatten the globe out and the dimensions get thrown off.

00:40:14.506 --> 00:40:17.206
What you're saying is a different motivation altogether.

00:40:17.946 --> 00:40:24.026
Right. the Pope commissioned Mercator to make a map that showed the spread of Christianity.

00:40:24.406 --> 00:40:26.946
So the equator is two-thirds of the way down the map.

00:40:28.466 --> 00:40:32.366
Greenland looks as big as South America, but if you read the legend at the bottom

00:40:32.366 --> 00:40:37.686
of the Mercator map, it says South America is actually nine times larger than

00:40:37.686 --> 00:40:39.206
Greenland. Have you read that legend?

00:40:39.726 --> 00:40:44.066
People need to look at that, read that legend, and then realize that once again,

00:40:44.066 --> 00:40:47.506
And Christianity, so-called Christianity, misguided Christianity,

00:40:47.846 --> 00:40:52.506
has been telling us how to see the world since the early 1400s.

00:40:53.226 --> 00:40:56.726
It's time to stop it. It's time to get over this. It's time to realize that

00:40:56.726 --> 00:40:59.026
we've told that lie long enough.

00:40:59.586 --> 00:41:03.386
Now we need to tell the truth and see if we can fix what we've messed up.

00:41:04.229 --> 00:41:07.929
All right. Well, Jane Elliott, I'm going to have to let you go.

00:41:08.649 --> 00:41:16.609
But if people want to get more of your education, if they want to be able to

00:41:16.609 --> 00:41:20.169
get you on the show, on their shows or whatever the case may be,

00:41:20.329 --> 00:41:22.369
how can people get in touch with you?

00:41:22.629 --> 00:41:24.949
Do you have a website? Are you on social media?

00:41:25.309 --> 00:41:29.689
Just tell all the folks how they tell the folks how they can reach you.

00:41:29.689 --> 00:41:33.029
Would be reach me at jane at jane elliot

00:41:33.029 --> 00:41:36.769
dot e-l-i-e-r now

00:41:36.769 --> 00:41:41.989
wait a minute i don't think about this how did you reach me so i sent the email

00:41:41.989 --> 00:41:48.669
to jane at jane elliot dot com that's fine that's how to do it okay that'll

00:41:48.669 --> 00:41:55.569
work for me all right well miss elliot again it's been an honor and a privilege It really is.

00:41:55.729 --> 00:41:58.729
And I, you know. Did you learn anything?

00:41:59.149 --> 00:42:02.409
I did. I did. Did I tell you something

00:42:02.409 --> 00:42:04.989
you didn't know? Did I tell you something you didn't know before?

00:42:05.529 --> 00:42:12.629
Well, the main thing is I got to know you a little bit better than even I could research it.

00:42:13.149 --> 00:42:23.989
And I also got a reaffirmation that you are a very, very special contribution to our nation.

00:42:24.649 --> 00:42:31.749
I think if we had more educators like you, some of us were very fortunate to have at least one or two.

00:42:32.029 --> 00:42:41.929
But if if all of our children were exposed to to educators who not only impart knowledge,

00:42:42.129 --> 00:42:47.909
but continue to seek knowledge to better the next generation going forward after

00:42:47.909 --> 00:42:49.429
ones that they have taught.

00:42:50.141 --> 00:42:52.981
We wouldn't be in the situation we're in.

00:42:53.201 --> 00:42:59.041
I don't think we could elect somebody like a Donald Trump if we were more educated.

00:42:59.461 --> 00:43:03.181
I think you have to remember this thing.

00:43:03.421 --> 00:43:07.681
Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Yes, ma'am.

00:43:08.341 --> 00:43:12.981
Actually, that was—and I lived by that because that was our—when I went to Jackson

00:43:12.981 --> 00:43:15.881
State University, my freshman year, that was our motto.

00:43:16.141 --> 00:43:18.481
That was the motto on the school seal.

00:43:18.981 --> 00:43:21.981
And if that had been the model of every elementary junior

00:43:21.981 --> 00:43:24.761
and senior high school and college in the united states of

00:43:24.761 --> 00:43:27.841
america we would not be in the mess we're in leadership wise

00:43:27.841 --> 00:43:30.981
today because the truth is valuable and you

00:43:30.981 --> 00:43:34.301
know the difference between truth and fiction my dad would say you know the

00:43:34.301 --> 00:43:37.361
difference between right and wrong i'll do the right thing god damn it and i

00:43:37.361 --> 00:43:40.861
think he just swore and he'd give me that look i know what i'm doing and i'd

00:43:40.861 --> 00:43:45.041
keep my mouth shut i'd listen to him you know the difference between right and

00:43:45.041 --> 00:43:48.601
wrong do the right thing that's That is absolutely,

00:43:48.841 --> 00:43:54.961
that truth is absolutely essential if you're going to have a government that everyone can trust.

00:43:55.721 --> 00:44:00.561
Yeah. All right. Well, Miss Jane, I'm going to let you go on that.

00:44:00.721 --> 00:44:04.981
And I thank you again for taking the time out and hopefully,

00:44:05.301 --> 00:44:07.401
and I'm going to offer this invitation to you.

00:44:08.021 --> 00:44:13.621
Anytime that you want to come back on, just let me know and we'll get you back

00:44:13.621 --> 00:44:17.161
on because I extend that to everybody that comes on.

00:44:18.221 --> 00:44:23.981
But I really mean that it's really been an honor and a privilege to interact with you this way.

00:44:24.761 --> 00:44:28.181
Well, anytime you want me to come on and give me a call. You know how to, okay?

00:44:28.761 --> 00:44:32.901
Yes, ma'am. All right, guys. Thanks. We're going to catch y'all on the other

00:44:32.901 --> 00:44:35.981
side. We'll be right back.

00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:52.080
Music.

00:44:51.901 --> 00:44:58.781
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Alexandra Smalls.

00:44:59.341 --> 00:45:05.181
Alexandra Smalls is the founder of Chosen Children Birthing and Doula Services.

00:45:05.821 --> 00:45:10.501
With eight years of ministry experience, Alexandra has had the privilege of

00:45:10.501 --> 00:45:12.601
walking alongside people through

00:45:12.601 --> 00:45:16.161
life's journey and during their most important moments in their lives.

00:45:16.341 --> 00:45:22.261
As a doula, Alexandra is passionate about connecting with women on their unique

00:45:22.261 --> 00:45:26.701
journey by offering support, guidance, and care every step of the way.

00:45:27.401 --> 00:45:32.761
Alexandra is deeply committed to ensuring that mothers have a voice over their

00:45:32.761 --> 00:45:38.221
bodies and a birthing experience they desire by making fully informed decisions.

00:45:38.221 --> 00:45:42.881
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:45:42.881 --> 00:45:46.721
on this podcast, Alexandra Smalls.

00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:57.520
Music.

00:45:57.613 --> 00:46:01.853
All right. Alexandra Smalls. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?

00:46:02.253 --> 00:46:04.693
I'm doing well, Erik. Thank you. How are you?

00:46:05.173 --> 00:46:09.473
I'm doing fine. I am really glad and honored that you took the time out.

00:46:09.693 --> 00:46:15.373
And I want to give a shout out to you for helping me with the Suazos, getting them on.

00:46:15.473 --> 00:46:18.493
That was a good conversation. Yes.

00:46:19.353 --> 00:46:22.813
I enjoyed it as well, listening back. Okay, cool.

00:46:23.293 --> 00:46:27.353
All right. So you kind of know how this thing goes. So I'm going to start this

00:46:27.353 --> 00:46:30.653
off with a quote, and I want you to give me your thoughts on the quote.

00:46:31.333 --> 00:46:36.493
Birth is the epicenter of women's power. What does that quote mean to you?

00:46:37.133 --> 00:46:41.313
Yeah, that's so good. Women from

00:46:41.313 --> 00:46:48.513
a long time have struggled with power and even been stripped of power.

00:46:48.693 --> 00:46:54.913
And so to know that birth is natural, that we were made for it,

00:46:55.173 --> 00:47:00.033
created to be able to do it, that our bodies know what to do,

00:47:00.713 --> 00:47:06.013
we can step into that power and own that power and know that the fact that life

00:47:06.013 --> 00:47:11.993
is coming forth from it is paramount to humanity. Yeah.

00:47:12.653 --> 00:47:19.013
All right. Give me a number between one and 20. uh number nine all right number

00:47:19.013 --> 00:47:26.293
nine if you're required to be a single issue voter what issue would you choose and why.

00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:32.560
That is a good question because there's so many things to choose from.

00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:40.840
Single issue. I mean, definitely life. I am pro-life.

00:47:41.620 --> 00:47:53.320
And there's a lot that can be combated or there's two sides to everything.

00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.060
But, you know, God creates life.

00:47:56.240 --> 00:48:03.760
And so, you know, just protecting that as well, because we can date back to

00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:08.820
different periods in time where that has been a strategy of,

00:48:09.040 --> 00:48:17.000
you know, just evil where life has been taken from children in masses. So I would say that.

00:48:17.740 --> 00:48:21.640
Okay. So define what exactly is a doula?

00:48:22.460 --> 00:48:27.660
Yes. So a doula, it's becoming more known.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.780
It was definitely something that, you know, like women have been having babies

00:48:32.780 --> 00:48:33.860
since the beginning of time.

00:48:34.100 --> 00:48:37.520
So doulas, midwives date way back.

00:48:37.680 --> 00:48:40.420
But there's been a period of time where we kind of lost that,

00:48:40.640 --> 00:48:43.980
especially as a society with medical providers and doctors.

00:48:44.220 --> 00:48:50.580
But essentially a doula, the word doula originates from the ancient Greek, meaning servant.

00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:56.620
So in modern birthing terms, a doula refers to someone who serves during the

00:48:56.620 --> 00:49:02.660
whole perinatal period, which is, it can go as, even as.

00:49:03.411 --> 00:49:08.471
Pre as, you know, someone trying to get pregnant and needing support from someone.

00:49:08.651 --> 00:49:12.491
But the pregnancy part, the labor,

00:49:12.711 --> 00:49:18.111
the livery, and even postpartum, just having a companion and a support and someone

00:49:18.111 --> 00:49:24.111
who can step in and advocate and provide physical and emotional comfort,

00:49:24.111 --> 00:49:27.551
support to both mama and, you know.

00:49:28.251 --> 00:49:33.831
Dad, family, to help that family transition into this new season that they're walking into.

00:49:34.191 --> 00:49:37.811
So what is the difference between a doula and a midwife?

00:49:38.411 --> 00:49:47.091
Yes, definitely a common question. So midwifery is more of a medical provider.

00:49:47.171 --> 00:49:56.331
So they are trained on a medical level to, you know, to kind of step in.

00:49:56.531 --> 00:50:00.711
It can be a substitute, so to speak, for obstetrician.

00:50:00.831 --> 00:50:08.191
So they help just kind of guide the pregnancy and also deliver the baby in a safe way.

00:50:08.751 --> 00:50:12.551
A doula is not a medical provider, more so, like I mentioned,

00:50:12.691 --> 00:50:16.531
that companion that's there on a physical, emotional,

00:50:17.011 --> 00:50:20.871
spiritual support that can help the mom,

00:50:20.991 --> 00:50:27.731
the family navigate pregnancy as maybe they're getting information from different

00:50:27.731 --> 00:50:34.911
sources to kind of bring in another perspective as well on an informational level.

00:50:36.026 --> 00:50:45.186
So a doula is more like a coach and a midwife is more like the backup in case the starter can't play.

00:50:46.966 --> 00:50:53.086
Yeah, I mean, midwives are essential for sure. Making sure that baby gets here safely.

00:50:53.486 --> 00:51:00.706
And yeah, so the doula is just that definitely that sideline person to come in and yeah,

00:51:00.746 --> 00:51:04.126
to be that support in the ear to say,

00:51:04.126 --> 00:51:07.166
hey mama you can do this you are strong your body

00:51:07.166 --> 00:51:09.946
was made for this your baby's almost here you know

00:51:09.946 --> 00:51:12.986
and keeping that environment positive and

00:51:12.986 --> 00:51:16.166
safe yeah so you kind

00:51:16.166 --> 00:51:19.186
of went through the whole the gamut when you were given a

00:51:19.186 --> 00:51:27.186
definition because there are birth doulas postpartum doulas and those who delivered

00:51:27.186 --> 00:51:33.506
a full spectrum would you are you a full spectrum doula i would say more so

00:51:33.506 --> 00:51:36.626
in the realm of birth and postpartum. Yes.

00:51:37.046 --> 00:51:44.146
I definitely have interest in learning more on the lactation side and definitely,

00:51:44.166 --> 00:51:49.586
you know, coming in more on an educational side for childbirth, pre-education.

00:51:49.806 --> 00:51:54.386
But my focus right now is birth and immediate postpartum.

00:51:54.686 --> 00:51:59.366
So you're working your way to a full spectrum, but right now you're birth and

00:51:59.366 --> 00:52:01.566
postpartum. Okay. Correct. Yes.

00:52:01.966 --> 00:52:10.166
Okay. All right. Now, according to AI, the challenge for Black doulas is that

00:52:10.166 --> 00:52:14.186
Black doulas encounter systemic barriers rooted in racism.

00:52:15.106 --> 00:52:19.846
Bias, and inequity affecting their ability to provide optimal care and support

00:52:19.846 --> 00:52:22.786
for Black birthing individuals and families.

00:52:23.026 --> 00:52:24.806
Is AI correct?

00:52:25.266 --> 00:52:26.946
Do you have these challenges?

00:52:27.566 --> 00:52:32.586
Yeah, I mean, there's challenges in Black communities just on an overall.

00:52:32.886 --> 00:52:39.526
Black moms are fighting just to come out of the hospital alive at times,

00:52:39.646 --> 00:52:44.866
you know, and I've talked to those women who are like, just make sure that I go home.

00:52:44.866 --> 00:52:51.106
So, yes, I even black doulas, like I mentioned earlier,

00:52:51.446 --> 00:52:56.186
doulas midwives started out as black women because, you know,

00:52:56.266 --> 00:53:00.506
in earlier times they were immigrants, they were slaves, the the.

00:53:01.638 --> 00:53:08.138
The grand nannies or the mamas, they were the ones delivering the babies to

00:53:08.138 --> 00:53:13.018
slave owners and, you know, slaved women, enslaved women.

00:53:13.018 --> 00:53:20.358
And so that started changing in the 20s when obstetrics became more,

00:53:20.598 --> 00:53:28.098
came about and actually experimenting on Black women because Black women are

00:53:28.098 --> 00:53:32.118
seen as people who are maybe not people,

00:53:32.478 --> 00:53:36.098
but who can take pain, who are less than.

00:53:36.098 --> 00:53:40.318
And so there was experiments that were done on them.

00:53:40.418 --> 00:53:47.698
And so really, as the 1930s came about, obstetricians were the way because these

00:53:47.698 --> 00:53:52.158
Black women who were delivering babies, providing that support,

00:53:52.378 --> 00:53:54.758
were seen as less than, were seen as dirty.

00:53:54.778 --> 00:53:57.338
And so they were not allowed in the hospitals.

00:53:57.678 --> 00:54:05.178
And that's kind of how obstetrics became more popularized and became the main way.

00:54:05.738 --> 00:54:10.838
So now we're getting back to Black women stepping into that space again,

00:54:10.838 --> 00:54:14.298
because there were many white women who had taken on those roles.

00:54:14.578 --> 00:54:20.858
And so it's becoming more known again, you know, because for a long time,

00:54:20.998 --> 00:54:22.278
it was like, what is a doula?

00:54:22.698 --> 00:54:29.378
But now that phrase, that title, that role is becoming more common,

00:54:29.558 --> 00:54:31.578
more heard of, more sought after.

00:54:31.918 --> 00:54:35.258
And so, yeah, there's still going to be a battle as we

00:54:35.258 --> 00:54:38.338
are trying to step back into that space and

00:54:38.338 --> 00:54:41.058
provide support for our Black

00:54:41.058 --> 00:54:47.018
community because many times we are marginalized because of different maybe

00:54:47.018 --> 00:54:56.438
socioeconomic status or just preconceived notions about women who are over-sexualized

00:54:56.438 --> 00:54:59.738
or poor or don't have, you know,

00:55:00.058 --> 00:55:06.298
are not in a marriage situation and they are already marginalized in that area.

00:55:06.298 --> 00:55:11.798
So it's definitely the job of the doula to advocate, but, you know,

00:55:11.918 --> 00:55:16.498
we can use some advocacy at times too to be able to step into those spaces.

00:55:17.018 --> 00:55:23.518
Yeah. So are you running into problems like you, you know, you've got a client

00:55:23.518 --> 00:55:30.758
and you're, you know, do you run into some situations where an OBGYN or a.

00:55:31.733 --> 00:55:38.653
Hospital, it's kind of like, no, y'all can't come in or, yeah, so you do run into that?

00:55:39.113 --> 00:55:42.933
Sure. Yeah, that is a thing. And doulas can get a bad rap.

00:55:43.153 --> 00:55:48.033
I mean, it's also our responsibility to make sure that we are,

00:55:48.173 --> 00:55:50.853
yes, advocating for the family,

00:55:51.053 --> 00:55:57.213
but also working as a birth team and not coming in as, oh, well,

00:55:57.313 --> 00:55:59.253
I'm just going to come in and run the show.

00:55:59.393 --> 00:56:06.213
It doesn't go like that either, because we want a safe and peaceful space for mom to give birth.

00:56:06.353 --> 00:56:12.933
And so that includes, yes, standing our ground, but also working as much as

00:56:12.933 --> 00:56:18.093
possible with the nurses, with the doctors, even midwives that work in the hospital

00:56:18.093 --> 00:56:20.913
to make sure that there is a cohesive.

00:56:22.133 --> 00:56:29.473
Just a cohesive plan and service to the mom and the family during that time.

00:56:30.253 --> 00:56:34.593
So, yeah, some doulas have gotten a bad rap because, you know,

00:56:34.673 --> 00:56:39.753
maybe stepping in with that attitude of I got to, you know, come in and and

00:56:39.753 --> 00:56:41.333
make sure my voice is heard.

00:56:41.373 --> 00:56:46.753
So we have to make sure that we are finding that balance of being someone that

00:56:46.753 --> 00:56:48.353
is welcomed into that space.

00:56:48.873 --> 00:56:55.633
Yeah. So based on your answer in the 20 questions segment, was that your motivation

00:56:55.633 --> 00:56:59.253
to be a doula? in some ways.

00:56:59.553 --> 00:57:04.573
And you know what? It's funny, funny, not funny, that I didn't even realize

00:57:04.573 --> 00:57:09.393
the depths of the challenges, the struggles.

00:57:09.933 --> 00:57:15.353
The height of the mortality crisis until I really got into it.

00:57:15.433 --> 00:57:18.613
Because for me, it was more so of an interest.

00:57:18.873 --> 00:57:22.913
Even from a little girl, I always had interest in pregnancy and birth.

00:57:23.033 --> 00:57:25.753
I just wanted to know, like, what's going on in there?

00:57:25.853 --> 00:57:31.493
How is this baby forming, you know, like just the awe of life coming together.

00:57:31.793 --> 00:57:37.373
So when I was younger, I wanted to be an OBGYN and I went to pre-med.

00:57:37.693 --> 00:57:43.853
Well, I took the pre-med route track when I was in college and I got to a certain

00:57:43.853 --> 00:57:49.133
point with, you know, biology or chemistry. And I said, you know, maybe this is not for me.

00:57:49.313 --> 00:57:53.653
So I took a different route, but it was always something You know,

00:57:53.773 --> 00:57:57.153
like, how can I get into that space? How can I get into the NICU?

00:57:57.413 --> 00:58:00.293
And, you know, just be a presence. And...

00:58:00.972 --> 00:58:05.652
I think that's a big thing, too, is there is power in the ministry of presence.

00:58:05.892 --> 00:58:14.192
Because I'm not a mom and I have not given birth, but I can be that support

00:58:14.192 --> 00:58:18.092
and that person that brings love, that brings peace,

00:58:18.292 --> 00:58:26.512
that brings even, you know, the advocacy piece to make sure that I'm serving well in that area.

00:58:26.512 --> 00:58:31.152
So, you know, I took a different route, but it was always something that I wanted to revisit.

00:58:31.572 --> 00:58:36.692
And just out of nowhere, I mean, I was talking to God and it just got dropped

00:58:36.692 --> 00:58:39.732
into me like, what about a doula?

00:58:39.932 --> 00:58:43.672
You know, because you don't have to go back to school to be a medical practitioner.

00:58:43.952 --> 00:58:48.652
But there is training, of course, that is required to be a doula.

00:58:48.652 --> 00:58:55.452
And even that divine connection with my mentor, she's an amazing woman of God,

00:58:55.712 --> 00:59:03.872
a Black woman who is passionate about advocacy and making sure that we have evidence-based care,

00:59:03.872 --> 00:59:11.972
that women know that they can be informed on their pregnancy journey and have

00:59:11.972 --> 00:59:16.652
rights in their pregnancy and in their labor and delivery.

00:59:16.652 --> 00:59:24.992
So being under her tutelage has been just amazing and just something that I

00:59:24.992 --> 00:59:29.612
really needed to know, like the importance of doulaship. Yeah.

00:59:30.232 --> 00:59:34.912
All right. So we've touched on it a couple of times. Let's get into it a little deeper.

00:59:35.512 --> 00:59:41.312
The United States of America has the worst maternal mortality rate among high-income nations.

00:59:41.972 --> 00:59:49.972
Black women experienced a maternal mortality rate that was nearly 3.5 times

00:59:49.972 --> 00:59:51.512
higher than that of white women.

00:59:51.512 --> 00:59:56.892
And Georgia's maternal mortality rate is among the worst in the country,

00:59:56.892 --> 01:00:04.252
with 33.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, including Adriana Smith,

01:00:04.452 --> 01:00:07.332
the Georgia woman who was declared brain dead in February,

01:00:07.572 --> 01:00:11.412
but is on life support and is currently 22 weeks pregnant.

01:00:11.412 --> 01:00:16.052
The Trump administration has cut grants for maternal health studies and research

01:00:16.052 --> 01:00:19.772
on health disparities, including the Morehouse School of Medicine,

01:00:20.112 --> 01:00:24.092
historically black medical school right here in Atlanta, which received a two

01:00:24.092 --> 01:00:29.092
point nine six million dollar grant for a center to improve the health of black

01:00:29.092 --> 01:00:31.192
pregnant and postpartum women.

01:00:31.652 --> 01:00:36.212
How does your work as a doula contribute to avoiding depression?

01:00:36.667 --> 01:00:41.087
Maternal mortality. Yeah. I mean, everything you said, Erik,

01:00:41.307 --> 01:00:43.187
unfortunately, is the case.

01:00:43.267 --> 01:00:48.967
And it's just unbelievable that a modernized country like the U.S.

01:00:49.007 --> 01:00:54.727
Is experiencing that type of mortality in something that should not be a medicalized

01:00:54.727 --> 01:00:59.727
event, but should be just a, you know, a natural part of life.

01:00:59.907 --> 01:01:05.387
And so those statistics that you gave are true and are sadly the case.

01:01:05.387 --> 01:01:11.147
Cesarean procedures, cesarean sections is becoming more of the norm,

01:01:11.147 --> 01:01:14.947
not because of need or necessity,

01:01:15.087 --> 01:01:22.227
but out of convenience and out of really greed because the hospitals get money from that.

01:01:22.227 --> 01:01:27.267
And so it's something that is becoming more normalized.

01:01:27.687 --> 01:01:33.087
30 to 33 percent of births end up in cesarean sections.

01:01:33.367 --> 01:01:36.767
Same thing with interventions and inductions.

01:01:37.467 --> 01:01:43.347
Many times are not necessary, but it happens just out of procedure and out of

01:01:43.347 --> 01:01:48.127
convenience. And so as far as what's happening in the government.

01:01:49.007 --> 01:01:51.667
It's, yeah, it's a sad state of affairs.

01:01:51.787 --> 01:01:56.807
And we do have representation in Congress, like Charles Johnson,

01:01:56.807 --> 01:02:02.287
who is, you know, has fought for many years because of his story from his wife, Kira,

01:02:02.567 --> 01:02:09.847
who died unnecessarily after giving birth because she didn't feel right.

01:02:09.847 --> 01:02:14.087
They were saying, hey, something's not right. Something's not right. They were dismissed.

01:02:14.647 --> 01:02:18.587
And she ended up really like bleeding out.

01:02:18.807 --> 01:02:24.007
And yeah, she lost her life unnecessarily. He's left now as a single father.

01:02:24.247 --> 01:02:30.167
And he's not the only one. He's one of many that haven't had a voice and haven't

01:02:30.167 --> 01:02:33.087
had necessarily had their face put out there.

01:02:33.207 --> 01:02:37.927
So it's not known. We are, and even in the state of Georgia,

01:02:38.207 --> 01:02:42.947
there's a cohort, there's a group of doulas who have made it their business

01:02:42.947 --> 01:02:49.687
to go to the Capitol and to hold meetings and to make sure that our voices are heard.

01:02:49.967 --> 01:02:53.747
Despite what decisions are coming from the top, we're not stopping.

01:02:53.987 --> 01:02:59.667
We're going to keep showing up. We're going to keep stating what we need until

01:02:59.667 --> 01:03:05.767
we get it. And, you know, that's what we can do at this point.

01:03:05.847 --> 01:03:10.747
And also just make sure that we are informed and that we are helping as many

01:03:10.747 --> 01:03:15.847
families as possible to make sure that they come out of their birthing experience

01:03:15.847 --> 01:03:18.867
without trauma and with their lives.

01:03:19.787 --> 01:03:22.267
Yeah. So it's like...

01:03:24.469 --> 01:03:34.909
Your role as a doula is to make sure not only that you're offering support to the mother directly,

01:03:35.249 --> 01:03:43.749
but to kind of step in if you see something that that's not quite right or to advocate for,

01:03:43.989 --> 01:03:49.149
you know, does this, you know, I don't know if you advocate for medicinal things,

01:03:49.309 --> 01:03:53.649
but as far as like, you know, particular drugs they need to take or whatever.

01:03:53.649 --> 01:04:00.609
But like maybe their diet, you know, it's like what room they're put in.

01:04:00.769 --> 01:04:08.709
I mean, just kind of go through this. Just to say I'm an OBGYN and you've got

01:04:08.709 --> 01:04:12.709
some concerns with how I'm dealing with your client.

01:04:13.109 --> 01:04:17.309
How would you, you know, just give me some examples of what you would approach me with.

01:04:17.769 --> 01:04:23.449
Sure. And it is a fine line. So we don't make any decisions on behalf of a mother

01:04:23.449 --> 01:04:26.809
in the midst of pregnancy, in the midst of labor.

01:04:27.069 --> 01:04:31.329
I mean, who wants to be asked a bunch of questions when, you know,

01:04:31.429 --> 01:04:34.669
you're going through intensive waves, you know, every two minutes.

01:04:34.669 --> 01:04:39.569
So that conversation is had ahead of time to make sure mom, doula,

01:04:39.789 --> 01:04:42.309
dad, family, we're on the same page.

01:04:42.449 --> 01:04:48.069
So that that voice is actually the voice of them and not just what the doula believes.

01:04:48.069 --> 01:04:53.989
Because that is a fine line of, it's not about me, it's about what this woman

01:04:53.989 --> 01:04:57.569
believes is best for her body.

01:04:57.869 --> 01:05:02.629
So along the way, yes, we're not, as I mentioned,

01:05:02.829 --> 01:05:09.069
we're not medical practitioners, but it is important to be educated and informed

01:05:09.069 --> 01:05:16.529
so that we can speak the language of medicine, that we can understand what's happening in the room.

01:05:16.909 --> 01:05:22.629
So when a mom goes to a prenatal appointment with her doctor,

01:05:23.049 --> 01:05:24.969
you know, she can bounce off.

01:05:25.169 --> 01:05:28.229
Hey, you know, doctor's suggesting this. What do you think?

01:05:28.609 --> 01:05:32.689
And so when we are informed on, okay, what's a good blood pressure?

01:05:32.969 --> 01:05:37.089
What are safe levels for amniotic fluid?

01:05:38.969 --> 01:05:44.369
What procedures make sense as far as like cervical checks and stuff like that.

01:05:44.449 --> 01:05:49.849
Because there are some things, like I said, in the medical system that are procedural,

01:05:49.849 --> 01:05:52.489
but not necessarily necessary.

01:05:52.869 --> 01:05:58.489
So cervical checks don't need to happen. We can know where a woman is in her

01:05:58.489 --> 01:06:00.649
labor just by how it's progressing.

01:06:00.969 --> 01:06:04.669
And so a lot of times cervical checks happen,

01:06:05.465 --> 01:06:09.885
happen frequently and they don't have to. And women may not know that.

01:06:09.985 --> 01:06:15.285
They just yield to what the nurse, the doctor is suggesting.

01:06:15.285 --> 01:06:20.725
But unless the baby is in some kind of distress, unless there's a medical emergency,

01:06:20.985 --> 01:06:24.505
there are things like that that can be declined.

01:06:24.585 --> 01:06:31.325
And so that's important for families to know that they have the right to not consent.

01:06:31.805 --> 01:06:36.765
And so even when they sign a consent form when checking in, that does not mean

01:06:36.765 --> 01:06:37.865
you consent to everything.

01:06:38.005 --> 01:06:41.905
That means you have the right to give or not give your consent.

01:06:42.045 --> 01:06:48.105
And I think that's something that really needs to be reiterated so that families

01:06:48.105 --> 01:06:50.425
know, hey, I have a choice in this.

01:06:50.545 --> 01:06:54.385
I can say, I don't feel comfortable with that. I don't want that,

01:06:54.645 --> 01:06:59.745
especially if it's not, you know, the life of the mom or baby in jeopardy. Yeah.

01:07:00.285 --> 01:07:09.065
So you've introduced a term to me that I was not familiar with before called obstetric violence.

01:07:09.345 --> 01:07:15.545
So I think you gave some examples of that, but clearly define what obstetric violence is.

01:07:15.845 --> 01:07:17.885
How much of an impact does it

01:07:17.885 --> 01:07:23.585
have on Black women and what roles do doulas play in mitigating it. Yes.

01:07:23.865 --> 01:07:33.745
Obstetric violence does happen. And so when a medical provider does something that is not,

01:07:34.045 --> 01:07:37.025
that consent was not given, they just take it upon themselves,

01:07:37.025 --> 01:07:40.245
that is essentially assault.

01:07:40.545 --> 01:07:45.985
So episiotomies is one thing that was very common.

01:07:46.005 --> 01:07:52.245
And what that is, is the cutting of the perineal skin because supposedly that's needed.

01:07:52.385 --> 01:07:55.045
We have to cut so that baby has room to come out.

01:07:55.545 --> 01:08:02.185
That is not evidence-based because our bodies are made to allow the baby to come out.

01:08:02.345 --> 01:08:06.065
It may not be in their timing, and that's a big thing too.

01:08:06.325 --> 01:08:10.905
You know, we want to rush the process, but the baby is going to come out.

01:08:11.145 --> 01:08:16.705
And so when a woman is cut without her consent, that is violence.

01:08:16.705 --> 01:08:21.625
When a woman has a cervical check without her consent, that is violence.

01:08:21.845 --> 01:08:27.465
When a woman goes in and maybe has a cervical check and the water bag is broken

01:08:27.465 --> 01:08:32.585
while the medical provider is in there, that is violence.

01:08:32.977 --> 01:08:40.517
Violence. So these are things where it's just taken upon themselves to go ahead

01:08:40.517 --> 01:08:44.957
and perform medical procedures that we're not consented to.

01:08:45.157 --> 01:08:51.917
Every move that one makes should be requested, hey, I'm touching your leg.

01:08:51.997 --> 01:08:54.377
Can I touch your leg here? Can I do this? Can I do that?

01:08:54.597 --> 01:08:57.657
The woman should know what's happening before it happens.

01:08:58.617 --> 01:09:05.377
Yeah. So you had mentioned about C-sections, the cesareans.

01:09:06.277 --> 01:09:12.457
And, you know, in my life, I was born and my mom had to get a C-section.

01:09:12.477 --> 01:09:15.957
And I think that's what discouraged her for having more kids, to be honest.

01:09:17.857 --> 01:09:20.997
But then my child was born with a C-section.

01:09:21.197 --> 01:09:26.697
But the reason why, you know, our OBGYN basically said on the due date,

01:09:26.877 --> 01:09:29.377
because I was like me, I was 15 minutes early.

01:09:30.357 --> 01:09:33.637
So I was a huge child, right?

01:09:33.897 --> 01:09:40.737
And so when my child came, the C-section was planned because the doctor,

01:09:41.617 --> 01:09:44.937
the due date coincided with the doctor's vacation.

01:09:46.037 --> 01:09:47.597
So it was like,

01:09:48.181 --> 01:09:53.941
For him to be there, they had to do the C-section, which was like maybe a couple

01:09:53.941 --> 01:09:55.521
of days earlier than the due date.

01:09:56.261 --> 01:10:02.741
Right. But in both of those situations with my mom and my child's mother,

01:10:02.901 --> 01:10:05.981
they were informed. They knew this was getting ready to happen.

01:10:06.541 --> 01:10:12.081
Sure. And you're saying that more times than not, especially with Black women,

01:10:12.221 --> 01:10:18.041
that they're not informed. It's just like, we're going to do this and nobody knows.

01:10:18.181 --> 01:10:25.561
Or even the case like if they don't ask if you want epidural or not,

01:10:26.221 --> 01:10:30.041
doctors tend to just, you're basically saying there are doctors,

01:10:30.301 --> 01:10:34.601
there's OBGYNs, they just kind of do what they think is best and don't talk

01:10:34.601 --> 01:10:36.361
to the patient at all. Sure.

01:10:37.321 --> 01:10:42.261
Yeah. In some instances, like the examples that I gave about the episiotomy

01:10:42.261 --> 01:10:45.161
and those things have happened without even mentioning.

01:10:45.661 --> 01:10:51.121
But like with a C-section, with certain inductions, interventions,

01:10:51.921 --> 01:10:56.621
yeah, they may say, hey, this is what we need to do. But that's exactly what they say.

01:10:56.681 --> 01:11:00.181
Hey, this is what we need to do. This is what you're pretty much going to do.

01:11:00.741 --> 01:11:08.061
And so because essentially there is a power dynamic because here this doctor

01:11:08.061 --> 01:11:13.781
or nurse, I mean, they're supposed to know more, right? Than what we know as a common person.

01:11:14.001 --> 01:11:18.881
So it's like, okay, well, whatever you say is I need to do, I'm going to do.

01:11:19.341 --> 01:11:22.941
Why? Because, oh, well, if we don't, your baby's going to die.

01:11:23.141 --> 01:11:28.601
You know, that is a scare tactic that does come up. Oh, well,

01:11:28.641 --> 01:11:29.981
if we don't do this, your baby's going to die.

01:11:30.181 --> 01:11:33.101
And so it's like, well, of course, I don't want my baby to die.

01:11:33.101 --> 01:11:37.581
So let's do it. But it's not necessarily something that has to happen.

01:11:38.141 --> 01:11:42.961
If a woman wants to hold off on an epidural, then a nurse doesn't need to ask

01:11:42.961 --> 01:11:44.941
every five minutes if they want the epidural.

01:11:45.616 --> 01:11:52.536
If a cesarean section is scheduled simply because a doctor is going out of town,

01:11:52.916 --> 01:11:55.976
that's based on the doctor's convenience, not the baby's.

01:11:56.336 --> 01:12:00.556
So a mom can agree, okay, we're going to do the cesarean section,

01:12:00.696 --> 01:12:03.056
but she may not know that there are alternatives.

01:12:03.216 --> 01:12:08.896
And I think that's the biggest thing when a plan or a procedure or a treatment

01:12:08.896 --> 01:12:13.076
or something is proposed, she may not know that there are alternatives.

01:12:13.556 --> 01:12:19.216
And so one, I guess, kind of rule of thumb that we share with moms,

01:12:19.396 --> 01:12:22.736
dads, as they are navigating this, is to use brain.

01:12:23.216 --> 01:12:29.216
So whenever we're navigating, okay, what's my next move? What are the benefits of this?

01:12:29.636 --> 01:12:33.756
What are the risks? What are the alternatives?

01:12:34.176 --> 01:12:40.056
What is my intuition telling me? And do I want to say no to this? So that's brain.

01:12:40.296 --> 01:12:45.116
And so we can ask those questions. We should ask these questions.

01:12:45.256 --> 01:12:48.476
What are the benefits if I do this or don't do this?

01:12:48.616 --> 01:12:53.716
What are the risks if I do or don't do this? And what are my other options? And that's okay.

01:12:54.576 --> 01:12:57.736
Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty, that's pretty slick. I did that.

01:12:58.336 --> 01:13:01.156
What can be done? Let's close it out this way.

01:13:01.296 --> 01:13:07.996
What can be done public policy-wise to further lessen the maternal mortality

01:13:07.996 --> 01:13:11.156
rate and support the work of doulas?

01:13:11.930 --> 01:13:14.830
Okay. Sorry. Repeat the first part.

01:13:15.190 --> 01:13:21.310
What can be done public policy-wise to further lessen the maternal mortality

01:13:21.310 --> 01:13:23.990
rate and support the work of doulas?

01:13:24.370 --> 01:13:27.090
Yeah, that is a great question.

01:13:27.750 --> 01:13:31.090
Continue to use our voices for sure.

01:13:31.450 --> 01:13:35.810
Like I mentioned, you know, we have made connections in the Capitol.

01:13:36.050 --> 01:13:42.070
We have made trips to the Capitol. There are representatives in Congress who are fighting for this.

01:13:42.290 --> 01:13:46.890
And so when things happen, like you mentioned, that executive orders that come

01:13:46.890 --> 01:13:50.810
that can discourage us to feel like we are making no ground.

01:13:51.270 --> 01:13:56.590
We can continue to use our voice because that is a tactic to silence us,

01:13:56.670 --> 01:13:58.250
to feel like, well, what is the point?

01:13:58.890 --> 01:14:04.530
In the civil rights, I mean, how did we gain ground by continuing to push through?

01:14:04.530 --> 01:14:10.430
And so, you know, I don't know that anything new needs to be drummed up,

01:14:10.570 --> 01:14:14.870
but just to say, hey, we're going to continue to push this through despite the

01:14:14.870 --> 01:14:19.170
obstacles, despite the no's, despite the, you know.

01:14:19.890 --> 01:14:24.530
Feeling like we're being ignored, but to know that our lives matter enough to

01:14:24.530 --> 01:14:26.970
keep using our voice. Yeah.

01:14:27.670 --> 01:14:32.670
Yeah. So, Alexandra Smalls, I greatly appreciate you coming on.

01:14:32.890 --> 01:14:38.310
I think this is an issue that we are aware of it.

01:14:38.710 --> 01:14:43.130
And I know that when I was a legislator, it was something that,

01:14:43.170 --> 01:14:46.970
you know, I and others in the Black Caucus was dealing with.

01:14:47.730 --> 01:14:54.590
But, you know, it doesn't make sense to me that the nation that is supposed

01:14:54.590 --> 01:14:59.410
to be the wealthiest, that is supposed to be the most powerful,

01:14:59.870 --> 01:15:08.830
is also the nation where women are in jeopardy of dying if they give birth. It doesn't correlate.

01:15:09.510 --> 01:15:15.250
And so to have you and others like you out there trying to help,

01:15:15.930 --> 01:15:20.590
even if it's just in a role where it's like you're advising others,

01:15:21.130 --> 01:15:25.430
hey, look, this is what you need to look out for and all this kind of stuff.

01:15:25.430 --> 01:15:31.710
And just, you know, just daily or however frequently you talk to them,

01:15:31.910 --> 01:15:36.290
right, just encouraging them and trying to guide them in the right direction,

01:15:36.290 --> 01:15:37.950
I think, is an incredible service.

01:15:38.110 --> 01:15:43.750
So I greatly appreciate you doing that. And I greatly appreciate you using your

01:15:43.750 --> 01:15:47.470
position as a voice to deal with this issue.

01:15:47.830 --> 01:15:52.210
And finally, I greatly appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking about

01:15:52.210 --> 01:15:57.470
it. If people want to get more information from you concerning that,

01:15:57.710 --> 01:15:59.310
how can they get in touch with you?

01:16:00.030 --> 01:16:03.490
Sure, I'll share that. But if I could just make one more comment,

01:16:03.490 --> 01:16:08.050
I'd just like to say that it can feel like a huge issue.

01:16:08.833 --> 01:16:14.113
A huge battle, a huge obstacle that we're facing. And so how do you eat an elephant

01:16:14.113 --> 01:16:15.553
one bite at a time, right?

01:16:15.653 --> 01:16:22.233
And so as we recognize that it requires individual change, it requires institutional

01:16:22.233 --> 01:16:27.973
change, it requires culture change, all we can do is use the power of one.

01:16:28.173 --> 01:16:33.253
And every person that I encounter, if I can make a difference in that person's

01:16:33.253 --> 01:16:37.113
life, then I have move the needle just a little bit.

01:16:37.273 --> 01:16:41.433
So I think if we all band together and do our part in that way,

01:16:41.633 --> 01:16:43.233
then change will come about.

01:16:43.513 --> 01:16:49.953
So yes, I can be found on my website, chosenchildrendoulaservices.com and also

01:16:49.953 --> 01:16:54.313
Instagram at chosenchildren underscore doula.

01:16:54.993 --> 01:17:00.133
Okay. All right. Well, again, Alexandra, I appreciate you coming on.

01:17:00.533 --> 01:17:06.233
And just like I tell all my guests anytime you want to come back on if there's

01:17:06.233 --> 01:17:10.073
some issues that you want to address because there's some other stuff you do

01:17:10.073 --> 01:17:12.153
too but we wanted to talk strictly about,

01:17:12.673 --> 01:17:16.713
your work as a doula this time so if there's anything that you want to come

01:17:16.713 --> 01:17:20.573
back on and talk about feel free to do that you have an open invitation to come

01:17:20.573 --> 01:17:26.213
so i appreciate that thank you for having me Erik i i love what you do with

01:17:26.213 --> 01:17:31.093
your podcast it makes a difference well thank you so much all right guys and

01:17:31.093 --> 01:17:32.373
we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:44.400
Music.

01:17:43.833 --> 01:17:52.213
All right, and we are back. So again, I want to thank Jane Elliott and Alexandra

01:17:52.213 --> 01:17:54.253
Smalls for coming on the program.

01:17:54.653 --> 01:17:59.993
You know, it's amazing how this whole thing works.

01:18:00.493 --> 01:18:05.073
Miss Elliott, as you have you heard through the interview, I have an incredible

01:18:05.073 --> 01:18:09.633
amount of respect for her and the work that she has done and the courage that

01:18:09.633 --> 01:18:12.553
she has exhibited in doing her work.

01:18:13.053 --> 01:18:16.173
And so she is literally a national treasure.

01:18:16.453 --> 01:18:21.133
And for her to just respond to me, just reaching out and saying,

01:18:21.273 --> 01:18:22.893
hey, I'd like for you to be on.

01:18:23.033 --> 01:18:25.873
And she came on.

01:18:27.013 --> 01:18:31.973
Again, that was a humbling experience. And I'm really, really honored that she came on.

01:18:32.253 --> 01:18:37.713
And then Ms. Smalls, you know, it was a chance meeting that I met her.

01:18:38.013 --> 01:18:43.233
And out of that meeting, I've basically gotten two shows out of that.

01:18:44.633 --> 01:18:49.373
And, you know, her work as far as being a doula was very fascinating to me,

01:18:50.633 --> 01:18:56.113
and especially considering maternal mortality, because that's an issue that

01:18:56.113 --> 01:19:01.833
we have been dealing with in this country, especially in the black community for a long, long time.

01:19:03.133 --> 01:19:04.293
And, you.

01:19:06.025 --> 01:19:11.485
It's high time that we prioritize that, you know, for all the rhetoric that's

01:19:11.485 --> 01:19:15.805
out there about life and, you

01:19:15.805 --> 01:19:20.305
know, raising children or indoctrinating children, all this other stuff.

01:19:22.065 --> 01:19:26.685
The mamas have to live, right? The mamas have to live.

01:19:27.245 --> 01:19:34.105
And so, you know, I'm glad that Alexandra found a calling to do that.

01:19:35.605 --> 01:19:41.285
And that there's others like her. And so it was an honor to highlight her and

01:19:41.285 --> 01:19:42.505
the work that she's doing.

01:19:44.525 --> 01:19:48.545
So, and I hope that y'all as the listening audience appreciates that.

01:19:49.265 --> 01:19:54.625
But I want to close out and I don't know how long this rant's going to be because

01:19:54.625 --> 01:19:58.965
mostly, you know, I don't script anything. I just kind of speak from the top

01:19:58.965 --> 01:20:03.505
of my head and hopefully it's coherent to you all.

01:20:04.105 --> 01:20:08.145
As I ramble, but I'm, I'm really pissed off.

01:20:09.665 --> 01:20:10.325
And I,

01:20:11.921 --> 01:20:19.241
And it's because, you know, when I was in college, one of the big issues that

01:20:19.241 --> 01:20:22.421
was happening was divestiture, right?

01:20:22.941 --> 01:20:29.861
And, you know, we kind of touched on a little bit last episode about the Afrikaners

01:20:29.861 --> 01:20:33.361
being given privilege, right?

01:20:35.781 --> 01:20:41.201
But to watch what went on in the White House the other day,

01:20:41.661 --> 01:20:46.781
where the president of South Africa showed up with his delegation,

01:20:46.781 --> 01:20:53.761
and it was a delegation that had white folks and black folks, or as Ms.

01:20:53.801 --> 01:20:57.541
Elliott would say, light-skinned and dark-skinned South Africans, right?

01:20:58.161 --> 01:21:04.721
You know, trying to explain to the president that all this stuff and what really

01:21:04.721 --> 01:21:12.121
made it, you know, his whole job was to try to embarrass this black man on a national stage.

01:21:12.361 --> 01:21:16.541
That was his whole purpose. And Elon Musk sticking his face in there doesn't

01:21:16.541 --> 01:21:18.141
make it any better. Right.

01:21:18.621 --> 01:21:24.661
But you wanted to, you wanted to put this man in the crosshairs because of ignorance

01:21:24.661 --> 01:21:26.661
that you fell into a trap.

01:21:26.821 --> 01:21:32.561
And this is something that he's been pushing since his first term as president.

01:21:33.121 --> 01:21:39.421
It didn't get a whole lot of attention because of the impeachments and the Ukraine

01:21:39.421 --> 01:21:43.381
situation, you know, the collusion and all that stuff.

01:21:44.301 --> 01:21:51.141
So he didn't really get a chance to do anything he wanted to do concerning South

01:21:51.141 --> 01:21:57.981
Africa. But he was touting that stuff on his true social or Twitter account or whatever.

01:21:58.461 --> 01:22:01.901
And so now, now he's acting on it.

01:22:02.141 --> 01:22:07.741
And so we're finding out that the video that he showed, the one video he showed

01:22:07.741 --> 01:22:11.241
with all the crosses was a protest, not an actual gravesite.

01:22:12.255 --> 01:22:19.195
Right. And it was talking about black farmers who had gotten killed along with white farmers.

01:22:19.415 --> 01:22:24.735
Right. So it was a memorial to all the farmers, not just the white ones.

01:22:25.175 --> 01:22:30.095
It was a memorial to all the farmers who had been killed in South Africa. Right.

01:22:30.695 --> 01:22:36.395
So there was that. Then he showed the video of the radical black politicians

01:22:36.395 --> 01:22:41.335
in South Africa and had to be reminded that they are members of parliament,

01:22:41.335 --> 01:22:44.955
but they are in the minority and they are not in coalition.

01:22:45.155 --> 01:22:49.395
They're not part of the coalition government that's running things that,

01:22:49.395 --> 01:22:55.895
you know, no farmer has been kicked out of their land. They've been compensated.

01:22:56.155 --> 01:23:02.035
You know, it's, it's almost like they have an imminent, imminent domain process

01:23:02.035 --> 01:23:07.655
to try to get black farmers or more black farmers. Right.

01:23:09.215 --> 01:23:15.835
And, And then the pictures he showed, you know, these were pictures,

01:23:16.175 --> 01:23:17.335
some of the pictures he showed.

01:23:17.455 --> 01:23:20.575
There were some pictures that were actually farmers who had been killed.

01:23:21.175 --> 01:23:24.535
But as the president of South Africa said, that's crime.

01:23:24.575 --> 01:23:29.395
That's not government-sanctioned genocide, right?

01:23:30.615 --> 01:23:35.375
That's just an unfortunate crime situation. And he even made an appeal to the

01:23:35.375 --> 01:23:39.995
president to say, hey, look, I may not have a jet to offer you, But we need your help.

01:23:40.515 --> 01:23:44.575
You know, if whatever assistance you can give us to help us deal with our crime

01:23:44.575 --> 01:23:51.975
problem, because unfortunately, South Africa has one of the highest murder rates in the world.

01:23:53.475 --> 01:23:57.995
You know, if it wasn't for the United States, they would probably be the top.

01:23:58.455 --> 01:24:02.075
Now, their murder rate is nothing like ours. There's a great disparity,

01:24:02.335 --> 01:24:04.035
but it is a problem there.

01:24:04.255 --> 01:24:08.255
And they are trying to address it. Any appeal to the president for assistance?

01:24:09.175 --> 01:24:16.255
President Trump for assistance. So what kicked it all off, you know, it was already hanging.

01:24:16.395 --> 01:24:22.675
But then he went into this reporter, Peter Alexander, who does not need me to defend him in any way.

01:24:22.795 --> 01:24:25.315
Peter has been doing this thing for a long time.

01:24:25.655 --> 01:24:29.775
He has covered a lot of presidents. I think he used to cover Congress before

01:24:29.775 --> 01:24:31.235
he started doing the White House beat.

01:24:32.105 --> 01:24:36.185
And so, you know, Peter asked him a question dealing with the planes,

01:24:36.485 --> 01:24:44.105
the plane, because the plane actually arrived in the United States, the Qatar plane.

01:24:45.245 --> 01:24:49.785
As I'm learning from Waj Ali and other folks how to properly pronounce the name of the country.

01:24:50.225 --> 01:24:57.205
And I'll probably just stay with the anglicized version and say Qatar instead

01:24:57.205 --> 01:25:03.665
of trying to say the Arabic version. but the plane finally arrived.

01:25:04.205 --> 01:25:08.165
So Peter is asking about the plane. He goes into this rant about how stupid

01:25:08.165 --> 01:25:10.625
he is and how disgusting he is and all this stuff.

01:25:11.125 --> 01:25:16.125
But you're talking to a president of another country and you don't have all

01:25:16.125 --> 01:25:18.265
the facts and you're trying to embarrass him.

01:25:18.765 --> 01:25:25.165
So if you think Peter is uninformed about factual stuff, what does that make

01:25:25.165 --> 01:25:32.005
you when you're trying to embarrass a world leader off lies and inaccurate information.

01:25:32.625 --> 01:25:38.225
If Peter is disgusting, what does that make you? Right? The arrogance of the

01:25:38.225 --> 01:25:39.785
stupidity is what bothers me.

01:25:40.845 --> 01:25:44.145
It's one thing to not know something because a lot of people that don't know

01:25:44.145 --> 01:25:45.105
stuff don't say nothing.

01:25:45.545 --> 01:25:56.525
Right? But it's those people who are ignorant, who are loud and brash and just the sheer arrogance.

01:25:56.685 --> 01:25:59.345
I just, oh my God, that just drives me nuts.

01:25:59.525 --> 01:26:04.945
When somebody is proud of their stupidity, who basks in it, who thinks that

01:26:04.945 --> 01:26:09.705
we should embrace the stupidity along with them, that's insulting to me.

01:26:10.445 --> 01:26:12.525
Now, it's,

01:26:13.219 --> 01:26:17.819
Again, if it was anything else, I'd be offended.

01:26:18.259 --> 01:26:21.099
I'm just offended by the arrogance and stupidity, period.

01:26:21.539 --> 01:26:27.259
But then you add on, you compound it with you trying to embarrass African leaders.

01:26:27.939 --> 01:26:34.939
A country where when I was born, the majority of the population was being subjugated.

01:26:35.699 --> 01:26:41.659
Seven percent of the population was trying to tell the other 93 that they didn't have any rights.

01:26:42.319 --> 01:26:50.539
Right. And so, you know, I'm just saying, we have to do better.

01:26:51.119 --> 01:26:58.119
We cannot allow this to continue. Now, we're stuck with this for the next four years.

01:26:58.839 --> 01:27:04.979
But please, please, please, America, let's not go down this route again. in.

01:27:05.619 --> 01:27:10.879
Let's not have an arrogant buffoon in the White House anymore. Let's stop that.

01:27:11.119 --> 01:27:15.379
Let's stop rewarding stupidity. Let's stop rewarding grandstanding.

01:27:15.579 --> 01:27:20.159
Let's stop rewarding crassness, right?

01:27:20.859 --> 01:27:24.899
Let's start elevating people that are worthy of it. We used to do that.

01:27:25.179 --> 01:27:30.959
We used to vote for people that at least gave the appearance that they understood

01:27:30.959 --> 01:27:33.459
the magnitude of the positions they were running for.

01:27:34.019 --> 01:27:37.719
And they carried themselves with some decorum.

01:27:38.499 --> 01:27:43.119
But now it's Katie bar the door. And that is just infuriating to me.

01:27:43.499 --> 01:27:47.959
That just drives me nuts. If I was just an average citizen, it'd be,

01:27:48.219 --> 01:27:49.539
you know, it'd drive me nuts.

01:27:49.679 --> 01:27:53.299
But as somebody who has actually gone through those steps, who has run for office,

01:27:53.559 --> 01:27:57.879
who's been elected, who's taken an oath, who's made votes on issues,

01:27:58.119 --> 01:28:01.659
on budgets, to see how foolish these people are?

01:28:02.731 --> 01:28:09.471
You know, I just remember I used to lose my temper and I had to apologize for that and all that.

01:28:09.551 --> 01:28:14.171
But it was never like on the floor doing that. Well, not on a mic.

01:28:15.411 --> 01:28:21.311
You know what I'm saying? It was like I remember I was asking legitimate questions

01:28:21.311 --> 01:28:24.271
to a representative who's no longer with us.

01:28:25.091 --> 01:28:28.851
And she she broke down and started crying.

01:28:29.411 --> 01:28:34.031
I didn't say anything mean to her. I was just really hitting her with some hard questions.

01:28:34.651 --> 01:28:40.251
And so I had to apologize for that because I'm not trying to make you feel bad

01:28:40.251 --> 01:28:43.451
enough where you've got to cry. You understand what I'm saying?

01:28:44.251 --> 01:28:49.591
I mean, the bill you were presenting was obviously was pretty bad.

01:28:50.371 --> 01:28:54.991
And I was opposed to it. But it wasn't meant to be personal.

01:28:55.511 --> 01:28:58.371
Right. So I apologize for making her cry.

01:28:59.871 --> 01:29:03.591
And, you know, and then we just went on about our business.

01:29:04.271 --> 01:29:09.511
You know, it was just one of those things that happened. But it's like now our

01:29:09.511 --> 01:29:13.511
politics is centered around, let's see how many we can make cry.

01:29:13.931 --> 01:29:18.171
Right. Let's see how many we can get them to lose their lunch.

01:29:18.611 --> 01:29:22.991
You know, just to go crazy. Who can I infuriate today?

01:29:23.651 --> 01:29:29.291
Right. That's not public policy. That's not public decorum. That's not civil

01:29:29.291 --> 01:29:31.511
discourse. That's foolishness.

01:29:32.091 --> 01:29:37.291
You don't invite a world leader into the White House and try to embarrass them.

01:29:37.891 --> 01:29:43.191
You don't try to bully them. Look, America is what it is.

01:29:43.291 --> 01:29:47.911
So when people show up, they already know they're dealing with the United States of America.

01:29:48.771 --> 01:29:50.891
It's a given. They understand that.

01:29:52.311 --> 01:29:58.991
So your job is to persuade them to go along with the United States position.

01:29:59.151 --> 01:30:01.411
There are sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.

01:30:01.731 --> 01:30:05.591
But I tell you what's not going to work, trying to make them look foolish.

01:30:06.551 --> 01:30:13.431
And then to top it off, you look foolish in the process because that's embarrassing to us.

01:30:14.211 --> 01:30:17.291
It's one thing to talk tough, but if you ain't got all the facts,

01:30:17.431 --> 01:30:22.011
brother, and you're trying to embarrass somebody, well, that's a reflection

01:30:22.011 --> 01:30:25.851
on us because we, the citizens, voted for you.

01:30:26.231 --> 01:30:30.231
It wasn't all of us, right? But you won the election.

01:30:30.811 --> 01:30:35.291
So it was a reflection on all of us because you are the sitting president.

01:30:37.031 --> 01:30:41.271
And, you know, some way, somehow, people are patting you on the back and saying,

01:30:41.451 --> 01:30:43.291
way to get him, Mr. President, and all that stuff.

01:30:43.891 --> 01:30:47.031
It's not a gotcha if you ain't got the facts right.

01:30:47.991 --> 01:30:50.631
It's not a gotcha if you look stupid.

01:30:51.884 --> 01:30:58.024
It's not. So I really hope and pray. I don't know what it's going to take.

01:30:58.484 --> 01:31:01.624
The man's been shot at. No contrition.

01:31:02.104 --> 01:31:06.104
The man nearly died of COVID. No contrition.

01:31:07.384 --> 01:31:11.604
You know, he's been through a lot personally.

01:31:12.084 --> 01:31:21.104
No contrition. So I don't know what it would take. All I know is if we have

01:31:21.104 --> 01:31:24.644
elections from this point forward, we've got to do better.

01:31:25.764 --> 01:31:30.464
We cannot continue to reward this kind of leadership anymore.

01:31:32.004 --> 01:31:38.264
And, bro, you got to show some respect because those people got elected in their

01:31:38.264 --> 01:31:41.084
country just like you got elected in this one.

01:31:42.104 --> 01:31:45.344
Show some respect. Don't try to embarrass people.

01:31:46.904 --> 01:31:52.784
Just, you know, do like folks are supposed to do and try to work through your differences.

01:31:53.384 --> 01:31:54.944
That's what they call diplomacy.

01:31:55.604 --> 01:32:01.244
Do that. Don't be a jackass. Be a statesman. That's all I'm asking.

01:32:03.184 --> 01:32:09.744
And to close it out, just remember that people died for you to have that privilege.

01:32:10.404 --> 01:32:14.324
That's, again, why we're having this Memorial Day commemoration.

01:32:15.024 --> 01:32:20.844
People died for us from Crispus Attucks all the way down to the last soldier

01:32:20.844 --> 01:32:22.404
in the last battle we just had.

01:32:23.324 --> 01:32:31.124
They died for us to be free, to have elections, to elect somebody to the position you're in.

01:32:31.924 --> 01:32:36.464
Carry that weight with you before you decide you want to embarrass or bully somebody.

01:32:37.204 --> 01:32:40.244
I don't know what it's going to take to get it to sink into your head,

01:32:40.244 --> 01:32:44.204
but let me ask the American people, especially my listeners,

01:32:46.204 --> 01:32:49.784
and I'm pretty sure most of my listeners didn't support them,

01:32:49.944 --> 01:32:53.044
but those who did, let's do better.

01:32:53.824 --> 01:33:00.784
Let's elect an American leader that understands the significance and the importance

01:33:00.784 --> 01:33:06.044
of that position and the sacrifices that were made for that person to be there.

01:33:07.444 --> 01:33:10.424
All right, guys, thank y'all for listening. Until next time.

01:33:13.040 --> 01:33:58.584
Music.