Education Is The Passport To The Future Featuring Misasha Suzuki Graham and Dr. Tammy Greer

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And today, I have two young ladies on as guests.

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One is a lawyer and activist in the San Francisco Bay Area community.

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Well, I should just say Bay Area community.

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And, you know, she has endeavored in a crusade, which caught my attention.

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And I think that you, the listening audience, will be also intrigued once you hear her interview.

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And then I have a repeat guest, somebody who followed the rules and came back

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on, who's a political scientist here in the Atlanta area, and come back on and

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talk about some issues going on locally and nationally.

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So this is going to be a great show, as always in my book. I'm very biased in that.

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And I hope that you all agree. We are still trying to get people to subscribe.

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We are still trying to get that 20,000.

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And it would be amazing if we could get those 20,000 subscribers.

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Let me just put it that way. I think that if you go to patreon.com slash I'm

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on with Erik Fleming and just subscribe to $1, I don't know if y'all been following

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the news when it comes to Patreon,

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but there's been a big deal with them and Apple concerning, you know,

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whether all of your subscription goes to the artists that you support.

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And all I know is that Patreon won that case and now that shouldn't be a problem

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so if you want to support me or other people,

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that are on Patreon and you use Apple be assured that they're going to get.

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The money, including me. You subscribe, we'll get that contribution.

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So please do that. Please spread the word.

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We're still out here doing the work and continuing to try to keep everything in front of us.

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And one of the things that supporting this podcast with help is how we always kick it off.

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And I appreciate Grace G for being with me, you know, and even being a guest

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on the show. She has been a godsend.

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But your subscription allows me to continue to have people like Grace come on

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and continue to make sure that, you know, like,

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you know, So next time, for example, get invited to the Democratic Convention

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to cover it again, we won't have to have a fundraiser because the subscriptions

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will make sure that it's covered.

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And, you know, I'm sure my boss at NBG Podcast Network would,

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Brother Young, Leonard Young, I'm sure he would greatly appreciate knowing that

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one of his many podcasts that he's building the network with can sustain themselves.

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I'm sure that'd be a relief to him. So, please, please subscribe,

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do that, and continue listening, and just spread the word.

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I've been honored to be recognized for the work, but we need to build our base

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up even more because it's, as I say in the intro appeal, it's time to make this

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moment of movement, right?

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All right, so let's go ahead and kick it off. And as always,

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we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Transcription by CastingWords Eric.

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Music.

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During an incident at a federal detention center while members of New Jersey's

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congressional delegation were visiting.

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A Los Angeles judge resentenced Lyle and Eric Menendez, convicted of killing

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their parents in 1989, to 50 years to life under California's youthful offender

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law, making them eligible for parole.

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An Israeli-American hostage was released during a temporary Gaza ceasefire.

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Rumaysa Ozturk, a Turkish student detained for over six weeks after criticizing

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her university's response to the Gaza conflict, was released on bail.

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Wisconsin Judge Hannah Dugan was federally indicted for allegedly aiding an

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undocumented immigrant in evading authorities.

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A federal judge temporarily halted President Trump's large-scale government

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restructuring efforts due to a lack of congressional authorization.

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Democrat John Ewing Jr. became Omaha, Nebraska's first black mayor.

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President Trump dismissed Librarian of Congress Carla Hayden,

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citing her promotion of diversity and inclusion policies.

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A federal judge ordered independent oversight of Rikers Island due to worsening

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violence and unsafe conditions.

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Google settled a $50 million lawsuit alleging systemic racial discrimination

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against Black employees.

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The Trump administration granted refugee status to 59 white South Africans,

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citing racial discrimination.

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Trump defended accepting a $400 million plane from Qatar's royal family,

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despite ethical concerns.

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Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico rose to 788.

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Viola Fletcher, the oldest living survivor of the 1921 Tulsa massacre, turned 111.

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And former Supreme Court Justice David Souter passed away at the age of 85.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News. .

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Music.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for

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my guest, Misasha Suzuki Graham.

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Misasha Suzuki Graham has spent her life attempting to bridge gaps,

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both professionally and personally, and foster understanding among groups of people.

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A graduate of Harvard College in Columbia Law School, Misasha has spent over

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15 years as an accomplished attorney specializing in intellectual property law

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and cross-border work with Asia.

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With over 10 years spent at several international law firms honing these skills.

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Misasha is passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion in the practice

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of law as well as in her communities.

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Her desire to make the world better for her boys led her to create Dear White

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Women with her biracial best friend of 26 plus years whom she met while walking

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out midway through a racial dialogue at Harvard about defining the multiracial identity.

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She is currently a facilitator, writer, and speaker regarding issues of racial

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justice with a focus on youth.

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The co-author of Dear White Women, Let's Get Uncomfortable Talking About Racism,

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and the co-host of Dear White Women,

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an award-winning social justice podcast which helps white women use their privilege

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to uproot systemic racism without centering themselves in the process.

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Misasha has been featured on Fox, NBC, Good Day LA,

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Forbes, and various other news and media outlets, has spoken and moderated in

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front of law firms, corporations,

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schools, and other community organizations, and gave her first TEDx talk on

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the link between asking questions and affirming humanity in April of 2024.

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Misasha is the proud daughter of a Japanese immigrant father and white mother,

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and the equally proud mom of two very active multi-ethnic tween boys.

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They live in the Bay Area of California with their largely indifferent cat.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Misasha Suzuki Graham.

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Music.

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Misasha Suzuki Graham. How are you doing? You doing okay?

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I am. Thank you so much for having me here. How are you?

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I'm doing fine. Like I said, I'm honored to have you on because you caught my

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attention with this crusade that you're on.

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And so we want to get into that and kind of talk about, you know,

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why you started that and what you see happening as we have been progressing into this,

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new era, I guess, for lack of a better term.

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So what I like to do is I like to get everything started with icebreakers.

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So the first icebreaker is a quote. And the quote is, those who stand up for

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justice will always be on the right side of history. What does that quote mean to you?

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Well, as the granddaughter of a historian, you know, history teaches us a lot.

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And I think that one thing that it teaches us is that, you know, justice for all.

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I always think about the concept of all of us or none of us,

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right? I think we're all so tied together.

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And justice for all of us means literally that, justice for all of us.

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It's not justice for some of us or the justice that we like.

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So I think when you're fighting for that, when you're fighting for justice,

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you're fighting for humanity, right?

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And that is always going to be the right side of history.

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Yeah. All right. So I need to give you a number.

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I need you to give me a number from between 1 and 20.

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Seven. All right. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,

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current events, health, et cetera?

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So I'm a big fan of newsletters. I like to read my news.

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I mean, I love papers, newspapers too, but I like newsletters.

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I don't like watching the news, which, you know, angers my mother to no end

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that I'm not watching the news shows because she wants to tell me all about them.

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And I just can't, I cannot listen to some of that.

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So I like to read newsletters. I have a couple that are sort of curated and

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I can see the headlines and then I can decide if I want to read more about it.

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But that's how I normally get my news.

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All right. So I talked about this crusade and the crusade is called Dear White Women.

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So how did the Dear White Women journey start for you? Hmm.

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So I got to take it all the way back, right? Because I am the daughter of a

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Japanese immigrant father and a white American mother.

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So growing up in my household, you know, there was no one perspective on anything.

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And a lot of what I did growing up was trying to figure out where I fit in,

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having all sorts of conversations about race and identity, and also sort of

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moving through different circles because of who I was being,

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you know, multi-ethnic or biracial.

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I was not white enough, I was not Asian enough, or I was too Asian or too white.

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And so spending a lot of time thinking about my identity.

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And, you know, I went to law school, I became a lawyer, largely because of the

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incarceration of Japanese Americans and the treatment of, you know,

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historically marginalized people, but also people whose voices were not heard

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in the legal system and throughout history.

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And I thought like, well, that sucks and that's wrong.

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And so someone needs to do something about it. So I'm going to do something about it.

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And then, you know, 10 years or so into my legal career, I got married and I had two boys.

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And that's really when things, I mean, everyone says, right,

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your priorities change when you become a parent.

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And that was 100% true because my husband is Black.

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So my boys are Black, Japanese, and white. And we live in the Bay Area of California.

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And in the circles that we were in, circles are very white.

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And what I learned from those circles was that, and I've learned this my whole

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life, especially circles full of white women, is what's said in those circles, what's not said.

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And then the third part that no one says out loud is what's being said when

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those circles full of white women believe that there are no non-white people in that space.

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And I happen to have a best friend from college who is also Japanese and white,

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who experienced the exact same things that I did, who became a mother as well.

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And we thought, what if we could change those narratives, right?

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What if we could change the narratives in that circle to expand it beyond this

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dominant narrative that we have in the United States and really think about

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all of us, right? Like when we're, you know, I was talking about all of us,

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like how do we talk about all of us?

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Because in those circles, I heard a lot about, you know, hopes and dreams and fears for your kids.

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I didn't hear anyone talk about my fear for my kids, which is like my boys walk

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out of my house. I want them to come home safely.

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It's really simple and it's really hard.

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And at the same time, right, because now they're 12 and 10 and they've gone

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from cute to aggressive in the eyes of society really quick.

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That was not a common fear. But what if we could understand those fears?

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What if we could find those moments to really talk to each other and think about,

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like, what is the world that we want for our children? What is the world that we want for each other?

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And, you know, you started with that quote about justice and how do we find

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equity and justice and inclusion?

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And if we're not talking about it, then we're not going to find it.

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So, you know, that same best friend and I embarked on this journey to kind of.

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Let's make this conversation as big as we can. Let's have a podcast.

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Let's write a book. Let's talk to groups of people about it.

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But let's just keep talking about it and continuing to make this conversation bigger.

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Because it really is about all of us. It is not just about, you know,

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me as the mother of Black children. It's about our community, our society.

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And, you know, now we see this writ large, right, in our nation as well. Yeah.

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So in this book that you co-authored, Dear White Women, Let's Get Uncomfortable Talking About Racism.

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You stated that white privilege is both a legacy and a cause of racism.

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To understand and change anything in the realm of anti-racism, we need to start there.

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So let's start there. What is white privilege and why is it a legacy and a cause?

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Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, and when people, I have been asked to not use

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the word privilege or that white privilege is sort of a triggering term.

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And I, especially as an attorney, I have like really difficult time with not

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calling the thing the thing that it is, right?

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Because, you know, it exists. And I think people feel a way about white privilege

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because we haven't been talking about it.

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And I think what it is, is that being white has never cost you an opportunity

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to do something, to, you know, be seen as anything else, but sort of the dominant narrative.

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It has never worked against you.

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And I think that a lot of the pushback.

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I hear is, well, I grew up poor. I'm white, but I'm poor.

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So like, clearly I don't have white privilege or, you know, and I think that

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conflates like race and class, right?

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Because those are, those are two very important things and two very big factors

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in our American experience, but they're not the same.

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And so it is, it still exists.

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It is, it is a thing tied to race. And I think that if you look at how our country was founded,

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right, and we're doing that a lot these days because we're looking at the Constitution

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a lot, but the Constitution was written by and for white landowning men.

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And so that is part of the history of our country, right? And we fought wars about this.

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You know, the Civil War was about the white privilege and the ability to own

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slaves and can we own other people?

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And that persisted and it has persisted.

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And the longer that we have, that we try not to have this conversation, right?

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That we try not to explore how has that held us all back, right?

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Not just non-white people, but white people too in this country.

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Like how has that hurt everyone?

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Then if we're fighting about what the word is, then we're not gonna get to any

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sort of change around that.

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Yeah. Yeah, I was taught that triggers develop from guilt and pain or both.

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And so when somebody white says,

00:20:06.364 --> 00:20:10.844
well, you know, when you say privilege, that's a trigger to me,

00:20:11.004 --> 00:20:18.284
then it's like, so either you have some pain from being a white person,

00:20:18.284 --> 00:20:22.764
or you have some guilt from being a white person.

00:20:23.164 --> 00:20:27.764
So which one is it? And how do we deal with that? Right.

00:20:28.524 --> 00:20:36.384
And, you know, I think it's I think it's unfair for people to try to box you

00:20:36.384 --> 00:20:40.544
in and any anybody that wants to have the conversation,

00:20:40.544 --> 00:20:43.844
because in order for us to get to a point of healing,

00:20:44.024 --> 00:20:45.664
in order for us to get to a point of

00:20:45.664 --> 00:20:50.584
progress, we got to have the tough conversations. Do you agree with that?

00:20:51.364 --> 00:20:56.764
I do. I mean, you know, I think I mentioned as the granddaughter of a historian,

00:20:56.764 --> 00:20:59.404
he was specifically a Civil War historian.

00:20:59.644 --> 00:21:04.924
And, you know, I think about all the conversations and the reckoning we didn't

00:21:04.924 --> 00:21:09.024
do right after the Civil War, which you can kind of draw direct through a line

00:21:09.024 --> 00:21:14.144
to where we are now because we didn't do any of that. And I feel like.

00:21:15.237 --> 00:21:19.877
And then I think also about sort of that next generation, right?

00:21:20.037 --> 00:21:24.097
Like our children. And I spend a lot of time in classrooms and I have conversations

00:21:24.097 --> 00:21:27.777
with kids where we talk about racism and privilege and white privilege.

00:21:27.937 --> 00:21:33.857
And no one feels a way about that. Like these kids are great and are very,

00:21:34.237 --> 00:21:38.777
and you know, you were talking about sort of the guilt or the fear or the triggers

00:21:38.777 --> 00:21:40.577
and they don't have those.

00:21:40.577 --> 00:21:44.197
And then I talk to groups of parents, and I will have a parent tell me,

00:21:44.557 --> 00:21:48.917
a white parent, I don't want to talk to my kids about racism because I'm afraid

00:21:48.917 --> 00:21:50.177
of how it will make them feel.

00:21:50.357 --> 00:21:53.497
And when I hear statements like that, and they have said it's my face,

00:21:53.517 --> 00:21:56.837
and then we have a conversation about the privilege inherent in that statement.

00:21:56.837 --> 00:22:02.297
But also, that is about the fear of the parent, right?

00:22:02.397 --> 00:22:07.037
That is not about what they feel their child will feel.

00:22:07.137 --> 00:22:11.137
That is about the fear or the guilt that the parent feels in having that conversation.

00:22:11.137 --> 00:22:13.957
And so I think that you're absolutely right.

00:22:14.097 --> 00:22:17.377
And, you know, how we think about this and how we think about this,

00:22:17.537 --> 00:22:20.817
what we want for that next generation, too, is really important when we're having

00:22:20.817 --> 00:22:24.257
this conversation around reckoning and how we heal.

00:22:24.257 --> 00:22:32.077
So when you're talking to adults, is denial the biggest resistance you face in the work that you do?

00:22:32.944 --> 00:22:39.164
It's a mix, right? I will say, you know, people will, like, introspection is

00:22:39.164 --> 00:22:43.544
really hard for everyone, I think, right? It's like real self-reflection.

00:22:43.844 --> 00:22:51.364
I think people don't understand. And there is, so I will say denial based on

00:22:51.364 --> 00:22:55.524
the concept that we are not talking about systems, which we are,

00:22:55.644 --> 00:22:57.324
right? Like racism is a system.

00:22:57.544 --> 00:23:03.544
It is a systemic level of, you know, injustice that has been perpetuated in

00:23:03.544 --> 00:23:05.264
so many different parts of our society.

00:23:05.404 --> 00:23:11.144
And I think when people hear the word racism, it immediately becomes this individual concept.

00:23:11.784 --> 00:23:17.704
Rather than growing up in a racist society and being sort of indoctrinated or

00:23:17.704 --> 00:23:24.384
assimilated into this concept that this is how it is because this is how it always has been.

00:23:24.884 --> 00:23:31.204
So there's denial on that level. And then there's also the concept of like, but aren't we past this?

00:23:31.524 --> 00:23:36.764
It's kind of like, especially living in the Bay Area, which people consider

00:23:36.764 --> 00:23:40.384
us to be incredibly progressive and increasingly we are not.

00:23:40.784 --> 00:23:45.144
And I think people are like, well, this isn't really a thing, right?

00:23:45.244 --> 00:23:49.804
Because they don't see it in their own lives. I see it in my life.

00:23:49.944 --> 00:23:54.564
I know for sure my husband and my boys see it even more than I do.

00:23:54.844 --> 00:23:59.104
And so I think there's sort of this concept of like, we're in this post-racial society.

00:23:59.364 --> 00:24:04.264
We had a Black president. And I think that people right now are waking up to

00:24:04.264 --> 00:24:08.604
the fact that actually we are very, very much not in that post-racial society,

00:24:08.604 --> 00:24:11.104
But I think that's been a lot of the pushback as well.

00:24:11.964 --> 00:24:17.744
Yeah. So how do you handle the criticism when someone challenges you as being woke?

00:24:19.958 --> 00:24:23.858
Well, I asked them if they, if, what is their definition of woke?

00:24:24.038 --> 00:24:28.998
Because I think, you know, there's a lot of misinformation or misunderstanding

00:24:28.998 --> 00:24:30.578
around what words mean, right?

00:24:30.658 --> 00:24:35.038
And words are important and how we use them is important. And I don't think

00:24:35.038 --> 00:24:41.258
thinking about equity or thinking about inclusion or thinking about diversity

00:24:41.258 --> 00:24:44.558
or justice is a bad thing, right?

00:24:44.558 --> 00:24:50.218
And I think it's like when people say, well, DEI is dead or DEI is bad.

00:24:50.358 --> 00:24:54.298
And I, you know, want them to define exactly what part of that is dead,

00:24:54.398 --> 00:24:57.078
like what part of it is bad. You know, is it the diversity part?

00:24:57.218 --> 00:25:01.638
Is it the equity part? Is it the inclusion part? I think it's really easy to

00:25:01.638 --> 00:25:07.338
push back on things you don't really understand or words that have been weaponized.

00:25:07.838 --> 00:25:12.118
And you're not exactly sure how they've been weaponized. but it sounds,

00:25:12.378 --> 00:25:14.638
it's something you saw, and so you want to challenge.

00:25:15.218 --> 00:25:20.278
But I invite people to, when I hear that, to have that moment of introspection

00:25:20.278 --> 00:25:21.878
or, you know, what do you mean by that?

00:25:21.998 --> 00:25:27.918
Just asking them sort of a question to get at what is the real issue they're

00:25:27.918 --> 00:25:29.798
trying to talk about? Because often it's not that.

00:25:30.618 --> 00:25:34.698
Yeah, it's like when people say that around me, I just say, well,

00:25:34.838 --> 00:25:36.378
the opposite of woke is sleep.

00:25:37.398 --> 00:25:43.398
And when you sleep, you dream. So you can dream about all this fantasy,

00:25:43.398 --> 00:25:47.978
what you want to do, or you can open your eyes and figure out how you can make

00:25:47.978 --> 00:25:50.018
something a reality, right?

00:25:50.798 --> 00:25:57.478
And, you know, I just, like you said, people are weaponized words to the extent

00:25:57.478 --> 00:26:03.058
where you're afraid to have conversations with people.

00:26:03.698 --> 00:26:08.718
And I don't like being in a situation where I can't talk to folks.

00:26:09.458 --> 00:26:16.338
And so I challenge people when they say something like that to me,

00:26:16.398 --> 00:26:22.018
or one thing I always kind of get people, I'm a member of the Democratic Party.

00:26:22.318 --> 00:26:24.398
So when the other people,

00:26:25.275 --> 00:26:29.655
say, well, you know, the Democrat Party has done something.

00:26:29.875 --> 00:26:35.435
And I'll say, well, the Democrat Party sounds really bad. I'm a member of the Democratic Party.

00:26:36.095 --> 00:26:39.235
So this is where we take our position. And it just, you know,

00:26:39.295 --> 00:26:43.395
at that point, you know, it's like, oh, I'm engaged in a conversation I don't

00:26:43.395 --> 00:26:45.615
want to be, but here we go. You know what I'm saying?

00:26:46.115 --> 00:26:52.715
I mean, I think the more that people like you and I continue to engage people,

00:26:53.555 --> 00:26:56.375
you know, I think that's always a step in the right direction.

00:26:56.555 --> 00:27:00.775
And a lot of people are just, you know, COVID kind of got everybody in a shell.

00:27:02.435 --> 00:27:06.935
And it's almost like now, you know, even five years later, we're still learning

00:27:06.935 --> 00:27:08.815
how to talk to other people.

00:27:09.155 --> 00:27:14.295
Do you get that sense that COVID kind of set us back as far as interactions with people?

00:27:15.335 --> 00:27:19.035
I think so. I think people learn to spend a lot of time online.

00:27:19.275 --> 00:27:25.535
Right. And in COVID, I know my my kids did and it took a lot to get them off of it. Right.

00:27:25.675 --> 00:27:31.155
And and I think online, you know, you're in you're in your echo chamber or you're

00:27:31.155 --> 00:27:34.755
yelling into a void and it's really one sided.

00:27:34.955 --> 00:27:38.675
Right. It's it's sort of parasocial. And then when you have to enter into a

00:27:38.675 --> 00:27:42.115
conversation where you can't just say your piece and log off,

00:27:42.235 --> 00:27:44.435
right, it becomes really challenging.

00:27:44.715 --> 00:27:48.135
So I agree with you. I think that people have a really hard time.

00:27:48.255 --> 00:27:55.235
And also, I think, and increasingly now, we are being taught to be silent, right?

00:27:55.435 --> 00:27:59.955
And, you know, that silence is kind of what saves you. And silence is absolutely

00:27:59.955 --> 00:28:02.215
not what's going to save you, right?

00:28:02.375 --> 00:28:05.455
Like silence keeps you siloed away from your neighbors.

00:28:05.475 --> 00:28:09.475
It keeps you out of your community. It keeps you, you know, sort of in your

00:28:09.475 --> 00:28:13.095
own, that echo chamber that I was just talking about, right?

00:28:13.195 --> 00:28:17.795
It doesn't lead to growth and it doesn't lead to change. And if you want,

00:28:18.095 --> 00:28:20.715
most people are looking for change in some life.

00:28:20.855 --> 00:28:25.115
The status quo has, you know, sort of benefited the same people that it's always

00:28:25.115 --> 00:28:27.555
benefited. And that isn't many of us.

00:28:27.655 --> 00:28:35.455
And so I think that COVID cost us a lot, but hopefully we're going to choose

00:28:35.455 --> 00:28:38.675
voice and conversation over silence. Yeah.

00:28:40.455 --> 00:28:46.315
So 53 percent of white women voted against a woman to be president of the United States twice.

00:28:47.435 --> 00:28:52.275
Based on your work and observations, why do you think that outcome occurred?

00:28:54.353 --> 00:29:00.713
How much time do you have? I mean, it's a complicated, this is a complicated question.

00:29:01.013 --> 00:29:04.933
I still think this is why I always pitch back when people are like,

00:29:05.033 --> 00:29:11.553
we're in this post-racial society or, you know, we don't need to think about

00:29:11.553 --> 00:29:14.693
race or, you know, we're past sort of talking about gender divides.

00:29:14.693 --> 00:29:21.733
I think that in certain ways, the Republican Party was really excellent on messaging fear.

00:29:21.933 --> 00:29:29.553
I think that you have a lot of single issue voters who didn't understand what

00:29:29.553 --> 00:29:33.373
the implication of their single issue vote would mean for the country.

00:29:33.533 --> 00:29:38.073
And I think you still have racism on a large level.

00:29:38.073 --> 00:29:49.073
I do think you have many factors at work, including people who felt that probably

00:29:49.073 --> 00:29:51.593
the same people who would deny that white privilege exists,

00:29:51.853 --> 00:29:54.553
who still, you know, use that.

00:29:54.753 --> 00:30:01.253
And I am also a Democrat and I saw how effective the Republican Party was at

00:30:01.253 --> 00:30:02.953
weaponizing that as well.

00:30:03.493 --> 00:30:07.833
And yeah, I think that we still have people who vote against their self-interest.

00:30:08.073 --> 00:30:12.893
And do it for a whole host of reasons, be it I'm going to, you know,

00:30:13.113 --> 00:30:17.013
vote my family party line. I'm going to vote on this single issue.

00:30:17.533 --> 00:30:21.073
I don't like her or, you know, for whatever other reason.

00:30:21.313 --> 00:30:27.113
But it was extremely disappointing and but not surprising, if that makes sense.

00:30:27.653 --> 00:30:32.573
Yeah, I think I was a little more surprised this time than the first time.

00:30:32.573 --> 00:30:38.413
Now, the first time I will tell this story, and some people have listened to

00:30:38.413 --> 00:30:40.033
podcasts have heard me tell it before,

00:30:40.293 --> 00:30:47.413
but I was so sure that Hillary Clinton was going to win that my alma mater asked

00:30:47.413 --> 00:30:51.653
me to do a radio broadcast for election night.

00:30:51.653 --> 00:30:54.053
So I came dressed for radio.

00:30:54.233 --> 00:30:57.913
I had like a T-shirt on, some jeans, you know, and I, you know,

00:30:58.413 --> 00:31:02.693
showed up and, you know, we're sitting watching the results come in.

00:31:02.833 --> 00:31:07.213
And then, you know, it wasn't going the way that we thought it was going to go.

00:31:07.933 --> 00:31:13.273
And so now, Eric, we got to get you on the college TV station.

00:31:13.273 --> 00:31:19.533
Oh god I'm looking like a bum just like okay well it is what it is you know

00:31:19.533 --> 00:31:24.493
and so now we're on there and then at that point we were starting to see the

00:31:24.493 --> 00:31:26.253
results in Florida and I was like.

00:31:27.238 --> 00:31:31.858
Okay. So, you know, but me being a political scientist, I kind of looked at

00:31:31.858 --> 00:31:33.818
it like a political science major.

00:31:34.518 --> 00:31:37.578
Please don't let me insult my colleagues who actually are political scientists.

00:31:38.338 --> 00:31:44.558
But, you know, it was like, okay, well, Americans had been voting for either

00:31:44.558 --> 00:31:47.618
Clinton or Bush for like 40 years at that particular point.

00:31:48.158 --> 00:31:54.238
So I said, well, maybe it was just the name, you know, her favorability ratings were not really high.

00:31:55.138 --> 00:31:59.658
Okay. And, you know, people were like, well, you know, we'll try something new out.

00:32:00.398 --> 00:32:07.918
But this time, you know, after going through a term with this president and

00:32:07.918 --> 00:32:11.198
now, you know, and then he got voted out.

00:32:11.198 --> 00:32:15.938
Now he's running again, and he's running against the sitting vice president

00:32:15.938 --> 00:32:18.838
of the United States, who is clearly more qualified,

00:32:19.058 --> 00:32:26.238
who is clearly more articulate, who definitely was a better representation of

00:32:26.238 --> 00:32:27.458
what America looks like.

00:32:28.498 --> 00:32:35.258
And the people, the same coalition, I say, that voted against Secretary Clinton,

00:32:35.578 --> 00:32:37.058
voted against Vice President Harris.

00:32:37.858 --> 00:32:46.838
So now I'm like, yeah, it's something more than, you know, what normal analysis trying to find it.

00:32:47.098 --> 00:32:50.798
To me, you know, the majority of it was straight up racism.

00:32:50.998 --> 00:32:53.658
You could say that, yeah, I was voting for the price of eggs,

00:32:53.738 --> 00:32:58.378
but I'm like, that dude didn't do anything for the price of eggs when he was there last time.

00:32:58.578 --> 00:33:02.958
You know, Joe Biden had to come in and fix all that. So, yeah, I just,

00:33:03.258 --> 00:33:08.998
you know, I still hold hope for people, but, you know, just as somebody that

00:33:08.998 --> 00:33:14.158
has been involved in politics and studies, all this stuff, I just,

00:33:14.458 --> 00:33:21.898
I'm more Hobbesian in my thought about how people voted this time as opposed to in 2016.

00:33:21.898 --> 00:33:30.078
So, after the 2024 election, let me ask you this.

00:33:30.198 --> 00:33:36.018
Does allyship with African-American women become more difficult or easier?

00:33:36.678 --> 00:33:41.198
You know, this is a good question. I think in my circles.

00:33:42.238 --> 00:33:47.998
Easier, well, if you're asking about me personally, easier because this,

00:33:47.998 --> 00:33:51.738
you know, this Dear White Women platform was not a new platform.

00:33:51.898 --> 00:33:59.238
And I think that, you know, it's very clear how I feel and how I'm going to

00:33:59.238 --> 00:34:04.898
use my voice and how I'm going to be fighting past things.

00:34:06.245 --> 00:34:12.945
Past like all of the labels and all of the stuff that's being thrown at us and

00:34:12.945 --> 00:34:14.545
still going to fight for everyone.

00:34:14.845 --> 00:34:20.505
And that means that I also recognize that the fight is harder for people,

00:34:22.085 --> 00:34:27.125
you know, who like I'm fairly privileged in this fight as well because of what

00:34:27.125 --> 00:34:30.145
I look like and because of the circles I can move in.

00:34:30.345 --> 00:34:33.365
And I always will be fighting for those

00:34:33.365 --> 00:34:36.405
who show up with less privilege because that's

00:34:36.405 --> 00:34:39.085
that's part of what I said I was

00:34:39.085 --> 00:34:42.185
going to do as an attorney and that's what I do in

00:34:42.185 --> 00:34:47.565
my life too because I want my kids to know that every day I fought for them

00:34:47.565 --> 00:34:52.085
and like when we look back at this time period and they're like what were you

00:34:52.085 --> 00:34:56.485
doing I mean but yeah I've sat there every day fighting you know and so I think

00:34:56.485 --> 00:34:59.285
on that level because people know who I am,

00:34:59.465 --> 00:35:04.625
they know that I spent all this time in the 2024 election cycle,

00:35:04.845 --> 00:35:08.085
making sure people had the access and the right to vote.

00:35:08.525 --> 00:35:11.885
Making sure people had ways to get to the polls, checking to make sure that

00:35:11.885 --> 00:35:17.385
California was in compliance, and then doing all the national election work I could do.

00:35:17.685 --> 00:35:24.205
And I had hope for a while for this 2024 election cycle.

00:35:24.385 --> 00:35:29.285
And I felt election night, I felt like I did in 2016.

00:35:29.605 --> 00:35:35.565
In 2016, I was in Louisiana visiting my husband's family and waking up that

00:35:35.565 --> 00:35:40.185
next morning to the results was very similar to how I felt this time around.

00:35:40.385 --> 00:35:44.345
And that fight is stronger now because we have so much more at stake.

00:35:44.705 --> 00:35:49.365
So that's kind of a long answer to your question. I think it's stronger.

00:35:49.365 --> 00:35:59.885
But I also understand anger in the community, right? and how that can and should play out, too.

00:36:00.845 --> 00:36:05.485
Yeah, it's because you have a very, very unique view about...

00:36:07.172 --> 00:36:11.312
You know, what's going on in the communities. And, you know,

00:36:11.412 --> 00:36:17.972
I think the fact that your credibility has made it easier for you to still move in circles.

00:36:17.972 --> 00:36:24.252
I think there were a lot of people who were activated in 2024 that had not been.

00:36:25.192 --> 00:36:28.852
And, you know, and now that they've been activated and they've been disappointed,

00:36:28.852 --> 00:36:32.272
they're out in the streets and they're like going, hey, we need y'all out in the streets.

00:36:32.472 --> 00:36:36.752
And them sisters are like, yeah, no, we're not going out with you because,

00:36:36.752 --> 00:36:40.352
you know, y'all Johnny come lately to the thing.

00:36:40.812 --> 00:36:44.252
But I believe because you've been doing this work for a while,

00:36:44.252 --> 00:36:49.992
I think it's easier for you to have that credibility and,

00:36:50.832 --> 00:36:55.932
for people, if you ask them, hey, I need your help, that they will participate.

00:36:56.632 --> 00:37:09.912
But I'm a little concerned that we don't really have the leadership that's ready for the movement.

00:37:10.212 --> 00:37:13.372
So that means new leaders have to emerge. What

00:37:13.372 --> 00:37:19.712
have you seen in the circles that you have traveled as far as new leadership

00:37:19.712 --> 00:37:26.032
stepping forward to deal with the issues that you deal with specifically with

00:37:26.032 --> 00:37:30.992
Dear white women and just overall as far as the political conversation.

00:37:32.316 --> 00:37:37.216
So I think you're absolutely right that whatever has been going on,

00:37:37.336 --> 00:37:41.656
especially the leadership that we've had previously, is not working in terms

00:37:41.656 --> 00:37:47.536
of moving us forward or even sort of visibly, you know, fighting back.

00:37:47.776 --> 00:37:50.876
Or, you know, I think about this on a national level a lot.

00:37:51.376 --> 00:37:55.696
But I think at the same time, and I was literally just right before this recording

00:37:55.696 --> 00:38:00.296
having a conversation about this very thing, it is in flux, though.

00:38:00.296 --> 00:38:05.436
There is no, I'm not seeing people kind of be like, this is,

00:38:05.616 --> 00:38:09.276
I am the person or this is the person.

00:38:09.536 --> 00:38:13.136
And I think that that has been a problem, right?

00:38:13.256 --> 00:38:18.356
I think that this is why messaging is so difficult.

00:38:18.656 --> 00:38:23.396
This is why reaching people is difficult. This is why conversations are hard

00:38:23.396 --> 00:38:27.476
is because there is not, like there isn't really that leadership.

00:38:28.236 --> 00:38:31.216
And we were in this conversation we were trying to discuss

00:38:31.216 --> 00:38:34.356
like well what does that even look like and that's even even

00:38:34.356 --> 00:38:37.556
that is really hard to discuss because we have and

00:38:37.556 --> 00:38:41.576
when I think about it on the national political level we have people and you

00:38:41.576 --> 00:38:44.836
know you were talking about the Clintons and the Bushes kind of being that you

00:38:44.836 --> 00:38:49.196
know dynasty of American politics and we have that sort of dynastic politics

00:38:49.196 --> 00:38:53.936
or people who have held seats for 40 years and you know or who are going to

00:38:53.936 --> 00:38:55.516
be on the Supreme Court for life,

00:38:55.676 --> 00:38:58.596
which is still so wild to me that that's a lifetime thing.

00:39:00.136 --> 00:39:04.296
So change is really hard. And, you know, I wish I had a better answer for you.

00:39:04.496 --> 00:39:07.816
I just haven't seen leadership sort of step up.

00:39:07.916 --> 00:39:11.336
And I feel like some, especially on the political side, people are like,

00:39:11.416 --> 00:39:15.376
oh, well, we've got 2026 to, you know, look forward to. And like, do we though?

00:39:15.676 --> 00:39:19.836
I mean, because if we're waiting till, you know, starting to run another election

00:39:19.836 --> 00:39:22.356
cycle, we may not be running another election cycle.

00:39:22.556 --> 00:39:25.876
Like we are in a really precarious position when it comes to our democracy.

00:39:26.096 --> 00:39:29.656
So as far as I'm concerned, we need to, we should have been doing this yesterday,

00:39:29.656 --> 00:39:32.736
but like, we're still not there.

00:39:33.676 --> 00:39:36.816
Yeah. So let's close it out on something positive.

00:39:37.136 --> 00:39:42.856
What, what gives you hope? What, what gets you up in the morning to keep doing

00:39:42.856 --> 00:39:43.976
the work that you're doing?

00:39:45.376 --> 00:39:49.456
Kids. Kids keep me, keep me going. Like not only my own kids and,

00:39:49.556 --> 00:39:53.676
and I've been able to have some really great discussions with them sort of about.

00:39:54.813 --> 00:39:59.913
How they see my work and how they see themselves in the world.

00:40:00.293 --> 00:40:05.153
And that gives me a lot of hope because the way that they can talk about who

00:40:05.153 --> 00:40:10.313
they are and what they believe in is unlike sort of other generations that I've seen.

00:40:10.513 --> 00:40:13.673
Like I couldn't have talked like that when I was 10 or 12.

00:40:13.833 --> 00:40:18.633
And I mentioned I spend a lot of time in classrooms and whenever I go into a

00:40:18.633 --> 00:40:25.093
school and talk to kids and hear how motivated they are to really like fight against injustice.

00:40:25.373 --> 00:40:30.533
And kids have such a strong sense of like, what is fair and what is right and what is just?

00:40:30.713 --> 00:40:35.253
And I want them to just hold on to that. And we talk a lot about how to have

00:40:35.253 --> 00:40:39.653
difficult conversations and how to critically think about things and how to

00:40:39.653 --> 00:40:42.913
ask questions and like how to keep asking questions when you're not getting

00:40:42.913 --> 00:40:45.833
the answer that you want, which sometimes backfires as a parent.

00:40:45.833 --> 00:40:49.213
But I mean, I'm talking about life lessons, right, for them,

00:40:49.313 --> 00:40:54.453
because, you know, what we can do to fight against the silence is to really

00:40:54.453 --> 00:40:58.933
make sure that these next generations coming are strong.

00:40:58.973 --> 00:41:02.093
Because when you were asked that question about leadership, like some of that

00:41:02.093 --> 00:41:04.053
leadership is going to come from young people.

00:41:04.293 --> 00:41:08.413
And I think that the more time that I spend with young people,

00:41:08.573 --> 00:41:12.813
the more hope it gives me for the future, because they're going to ask those

00:41:12.813 --> 00:41:15.653
questions. They're really strong in their beliefs of who they are.

00:41:15.833 --> 00:41:20.433
And as long as we can keep making sure that they're getting the education to

00:41:20.433 --> 00:41:23.393
do that, they're reading the books to do that, that's what we can do for them.

00:41:23.833 --> 00:41:28.633
But then they bring so much to us as well. Yeah.

00:41:29.493 --> 00:41:35.853
Well, Misasha Suzuki Graham, I am really, really, again, honored to have you come on.

00:41:37.093 --> 00:41:39.793
And I am really, really honored to...

00:41:41.201 --> 00:41:44.961
Meet you and know that you're out there doing the work.

00:41:45.361 --> 00:41:47.381
As I've stated many times before

00:41:47.381 --> 00:41:51.561
on this podcast, I want to highlight people that are doing the work.

00:41:51.781 --> 00:41:55.181
They don't necessarily have to be elected, but as long as they're out there

00:41:55.181 --> 00:42:00.301
making a positive contribution and trying to improve our society,

00:42:01.021 --> 00:42:03.421
every chance I get, I want to highlight folks.

00:42:03.601 --> 00:42:07.641
So again, I thank you for coming on. And before I let you go,

00:42:07.821 --> 00:42:10.741
how can people get in touch with you?

00:42:11.101 --> 00:42:13.681
How can people get involved with the work that you're doing?

00:42:14.141 --> 00:42:16.881
You know, go ahead and make your plug.

00:42:17.761 --> 00:42:22.421
Well, Eric, thank you. This has been a real honor and a joy to have a conversation

00:42:22.421 --> 00:42:24.301
with you. And I feel the exact same way about you.

00:42:24.541 --> 00:42:30.981
I love meeting and talking to people who are fighting for all of us. So thank you.

00:42:31.521 --> 00:42:35.801
As far as where people can find me, not on many social platforms.

00:42:36.001 --> 00:42:39.881
I am on LinkedIn, so you can find me there. It's just my first name, Misasha.

00:42:40.261 --> 00:42:45.621
I have a newsletter called Get Up 8, where I try to thread the needle sometimes

00:42:45.621 --> 00:42:48.561
between law, history, hope, and humanity.

00:42:49.581 --> 00:42:53.781
And as far as Dear White Women, if you want to find out more about that work,

00:42:53.901 --> 00:42:56.321
we have a website, dearwhitewomen.com.

00:42:56.701 --> 00:42:58.441
And where can people get the book?

00:42:59.181 --> 00:43:02.401
People can get the book pretty much anywhere books are sold.

00:43:02.841 --> 00:43:07.921
Our favorites are bookshop or local bookstores, though. So if your bookstore

00:43:07.921 --> 00:43:09.481
does not have it, please ask.

00:43:10.261 --> 00:43:14.041
All right, Misasha, thank you so much for coming on. I greatly appreciate it.

00:43:14.641 --> 00:43:18.761
Thank you for having me. All right, guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:38.160
Music.

00:43:38.081 --> 00:43:44.201
All right and we are back and so it's time for my next guest who has followed

00:43:44.201 --> 00:43:50.341
the rules and the rule is is that if you've been a guest on my show you have

00:43:50.341 --> 00:43:51.701
an open invitation to come back.

00:43:52.761 --> 00:43:58.721
And Dr. Tammy Greer has adhered to that, and so she is on for another appearance,

00:43:58.721 --> 00:44:02.461
and I am so glad that she was able to do that.

00:44:02.741 --> 00:44:06.801
Dr. Greer currently serves as a clinical assistant professor and director of

00:44:06.801 --> 00:44:12.801
the BIS Social Entrepreneurship in Public Management and Policy Department in

00:44:12.801 --> 00:44:17.601
the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies at Georgia State University.

00:44:17.601 --> 00:44:22.641
She has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and master of security management,

00:44:22.641 --> 00:44:26.541
both from the University of Houston downtown, as well as a Ph.D.

00:44:26.661 --> 00:44:31.221
In political science from Clark Atlanta University, with focus areas in American

00:44:31.221 --> 00:44:34.541
government, including state and local government, urban politics,

00:44:34.861 --> 00:44:37.321
comparative politics and international politics.

00:44:38.021 --> 00:44:41.981
She has served in numerous capacities in the private sector as well as the public

00:44:41.981 --> 00:44:43.581
sector, including as an educator.

00:44:44.161 --> 00:44:47.961
Dr. Greer's interests include community and civic involvement,

00:44:48.281 --> 00:44:53.321
focusing on policy, and the lack of equitable public policy impact historically

00:44:53.321 --> 00:44:54.501
underserved communities.

00:44:55.061 --> 00:44:59.961
She advocates for consistent civic engagement in voting, especially in non-presidential

00:44:59.961 --> 00:45:03.681
elections, which means voting for all positions on the ballot.

00:45:04.561 --> 00:45:07.401
Dr. Greer has served as a board member on several organizations,

00:45:07.741 --> 00:45:12.501
including Georgia Women Connect, Media Policy,

00:45:12.801 --> 00:45:21.661
and the Community Chair, working to create community garden in an urban food desert community. Dr.

00:45:21.761 --> 00:45:25.501
Greer has been interviewed in numerous state, nationwide, and international

00:45:25.501 --> 00:45:30.301
media outlets, including CNBC, Canadian Broadcasting Company, NPR.

00:45:31.181 --> 00:45:36.501
Washington Post, WGN, Christian Science Monitor, and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution

00:45:36.501 --> 00:45:39.081
regarding politics and policy.

00:45:39.801 --> 00:45:44.381
And she is the author of the forthcoming book, Checks Without Change,

00:45:44.621 --> 00:45:47.001
Moving from Protest to Policy.

00:45:47.781 --> 00:45:55.581
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor to welcome again on this podcast, Dr. Tammy Greer.

00:45:57.520 --> 00:46:06.640
Music.

00:46:06.101 --> 00:46:10.841
All right, Dr. Tammy Greer. How you doing, sister? You doing good?

00:46:11.401 --> 00:46:15.061
I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. Well, ladies and gentlemen,

00:46:15.641 --> 00:46:20.141
you know, I always say this to my guests, that whenever you got some burning

00:46:20.141 --> 00:46:24.761
on your chest and you want to come back on, just reach out and we'll make that happen.

00:46:25.121 --> 00:46:29.261
So Dr. Tammy is a woman of her word to make sure that I was a man of mine.

00:46:29.261 --> 00:46:30.801
And here we are, we're back again.

00:46:31.281 --> 00:46:37.361
So I'm glad that you accepted my invitation to come back. So let's go ahead and get this going.

00:46:37.701 --> 00:46:41.701
I'm going to give you a quote and let you respond to that to get it started.

00:46:41.701 --> 00:46:47.561
As long as the wrong people hold power, how can the right political climate

00:46:47.561 --> 00:46:50.381
even arise? What's your thought about that quote?

00:46:51.411 --> 00:46:56.051
As long as they are in power, that is always the right time.

00:46:56.251 --> 00:47:01.211
It's always the right time for good people. And it's always the right time to make that change.

00:47:01.451 --> 00:47:06.391
It's just that are there enough good people who have the courage,

00:47:06.611 --> 00:47:11.411
the fortitude, and the will to make it happen? That's where we are.

00:47:11.651 --> 00:47:13.731
That's exactly the moment we're living in.

00:47:14.251 --> 00:47:17.571
All right. Give me a number between 1 and 20.

00:47:18.211 --> 00:47:24.671
4. Okay. Hey, how should we balance individual freedoms with the common good?

00:47:25.271 --> 00:47:33.111
Oh, we balance it by fully appreciating, like, where's the safety?

00:47:33.371 --> 00:47:37.731
Where are the masses in totality?

00:47:37.971 --> 00:47:43.171
How are they to fare in whatever decision that is being made?

00:47:44.271 --> 00:47:50.471
There's always based on the social contract theory you always give up something

00:47:50.471 --> 00:47:56.111
some of your civil liberties some of what we consider to be our individual freedoms

00:47:56.111 --> 00:48:03.911
you give up some of that for the general safety and security of your government and so the question is

00:48:04.091 --> 00:48:09.971
how much as a whole are we willing to give up and what does that look like for

00:48:09.971 --> 00:48:14.791
the masses the challenge that we have is that we're not looking at the masses

00:48:14.791 --> 00:48:18.871
as let's say 51% of the total population of the country.

00:48:19.071 --> 00:48:24.571
What we're looking at the masses is in terms of people who actually participate in the process.

00:48:25.091 --> 00:48:31.691
So depending on who we elect to office, they may have a thought process of working

00:48:31.691 --> 00:48:33.531
to the masses of those that voted.

00:48:33.971 --> 00:48:39.391
Another group may be thinking of working to the masses of those in the country

00:48:39.391 --> 00:48:44.051
overall. all, depending on where we sit in our personal lives,

00:48:44.051 --> 00:48:46.171
that will determine who we put into office.

00:48:47.477 --> 00:48:52.997
All right. As we get close with Anne, I want to get some updates on a couple of things with you.

00:48:53.117 --> 00:48:57.837
But let's go ahead and get into the fact that we have survived the first hundred

00:48:57.837 --> 00:49:00.157
days of the second Trump administration.

00:49:00.577 --> 00:49:07.777
So what is your assessment? What is your big takeaway or your big concern as

00:49:07.777 --> 00:49:10.937
far as what's gone on during these first hundred days?

00:49:11.397 --> 00:49:17.977
So my biggest takeaway is my biggest concern. And for those of us that read

00:49:17.977 --> 00:49:23.737
Project 2025 before the election, we knew that this day was coming.

00:49:24.017 --> 00:49:29.897
And so my biggest takeaway, my biggest concern is that the current president

00:49:29.897 --> 00:49:36.297
is doing exactly what him and his advisors told us that they would do.

00:49:36.297 --> 00:49:40.577
And that is to put, to sow,

00:49:40.897 --> 00:49:47.817
to deepen distrust in government by messing with the bureaucracy,

00:49:47.817 --> 00:49:55.557
by attacking some of these fundamental institutions that we have that keep the country safe.

00:49:55.557 --> 00:50:03.137
From a physical standpoint, from a mental standpoint, from a product line standpoint, from diseases,

00:50:03.597 --> 00:50:11.857
or when it comes to protection of children in schools, this is what they're doing.

00:50:12.317 --> 00:50:20.737
And the impact on the bureaucracy is sowing distrust into what government does.

00:50:20.737 --> 00:50:25.977
And it's creating this notion that we don't need the bureaucracy.

00:50:26.057 --> 00:50:27.877
And that is far from the truth.

00:50:29.077 --> 00:50:37.197
Yeah. So I always hear people talk about, you know, me when I was running for office,

00:50:37.677 --> 00:50:42.957
you know, and listen to other people give speeches, always used to hear and

00:50:42.957 --> 00:50:46.257
still hear people saying, well, we need to run government like a business.

00:50:47.137 --> 00:50:51.657
So they got this guy who happened to be the richest person in the world.

00:50:52.563 --> 00:50:58.343
Gave him like, he picked 25 people and they went in and started dismantling

00:50:58.343 --> 00:51:04.323
this agency and slashing funds from another agency and so on and so on.

00:51:04.583 --> 00:51:09.223
And they claim now that they have saved $165 billion.

00:51:10.023 --> 00:51:14.263
Now, the initial thing was, oh, we can save two trillion, right?

00:51:14.583 --> 00:51:21.043
And then we find out that the total cost for him doing all this damage is going

00:51:21.043 --> 00:51:25.623
to be $135 billion, which means that they're only going to save $30 billion.

00:51:26.023 --> 00:51:32.103
So my question to you, Doc, is does this put this myth to rest that you can

00:51:32.103 --> 00:51:33.743
run government like a business?

00:51:34.683 --> 00:51:42.203
No. And as I explained to my students, there are two different philosophies

00:51:42.203 --> 00:51:47.643
that we're working with. The first is that people who are in business are in

00:51:47.643 --> 00:51:49.003
business to make a profit.

00:51:49.723 --> 00:51:54.063
People who work in government work in government for public service.

00:51:54.503 --> 00:51:57.343
Those are two different philosophies that we're working with.

00:51:57.683 --> 00:52:01.463
When you are someone who is, you

00:52:01.463 --> 00:52:05.823
know, says that they're going to run the public sector like a business,

00:52:06.503 --> 00:52:12.703
what they're saying to you is, is that they're going to cut, cut, cut.

00:52:13.463 --> 00:52:20.283
Whether that is cut resources, how much funding goes to different organizations,

00:52:20.723 --> 00:52:27.943
whether that is cutting employees, which then drives up the number of unemployment

00:52:27.943 --> 00:52:29.883
that we have in this country.

00:52:30.323 --> 00:52:34.443
Cutting and there is no profit to be made in government.

00:52:34.963 --> 00:52:40.323
You could have a surplus. There's no profit, though. And what you do with that

00:52:40.323 --> 00:52:45.743
surplus is you save it because things come up all the time.

00:52:45.923 --> 00:52:50.623
If you run government like a business, you're only looking at quarter to quarter.

00:52:51.619 --> 00:52:55.579
If you're only looking at quarter to quarter, that means you have no long-term

00:52:55.579 --> 00:52:59.399
vision for what happens when you are no longer there.

00:52:59.659 --> 00:53:07.479
So whatever it happens, whatever the mess is that's left, then that becomes someone else's issue.

00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:11.699
And that someone else is the person that is elected after you.

00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:20.839
So running a service like a business negates the underlying current that is government.

00:53:20.839 --> 00:53:27.199
And that is to serve the people, not shareholders, not a board of directors.

00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:29.399
It is to serve the people.

00:53:29.619 --> 00:53:36.539
And if we lose sight of that, this is how the distrust in government begins.

00:53:36.699 --> 00:53:43.979
It begins this way. So there's a process to this. But if I could go back, what is a bureaucracy?

00:53:44.319 --> 00:53:50.339
And that is the way that our government is run. And a bureaucracy is just a system and rules.

00:53:50.539 --> 00:53:55.619
So when people say the bureaucracy or bureaucrats, the people that work in the

00:53:55.619 --> 00:54:02.419
bureaucracy, they use this negative connotation and they put it as if it is just government.

00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:07.059
A bureaucracy is everything. It is from the fast food restaurant you go to.

00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:12.119
It is from the job that you currently have. It is the process that you use to

00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:16.759
get a home loan for a house. It is probably the way you run your household.

00:54:17.019 --> 00:54:18.839
It is just a process.

00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:27.699
And the way that government uses bureaucracy is to ensure the safety and security of its people.

00:54:27.859 --> 00:54:31.919
And safety and security, again, comes in many different forms.

00:54:32.139 --> 00:54:39.679
So, for example, when we are looking at cutting the number of people in health and human services.

00:54:40.299 --> 00:54:44.859
Then that means that some of these services that are used by the elderly,

00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:48.899
by those that may have physical or intellectual disabilities,

00:54:48.899 --> 00:54:55.599
when it comes to monitoring vaccines, the health of our country,

00:54:56.199 --> 00:55:01.799
making recommendations when it comes to some of these entities that want to

00:55:01.799 --> 00:55:09.279
bring product into our system, this is what they do. They protect us.

00:55:09.459 --> 00:55:13.839
This is making sure that insurance companies, health insurance companies,

00:55:13.839 --> 00:55:19.279
are not trying to get their customers by not paying for particular services.

00:55:19.619 --> 00:55:26.599
This is the protection. So to say that we're going to take away thousands upon

00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:33.079
thousands of employees who make sure that you are safe is very interesting because

00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:38.539
what it does is it degrades the trust that we have.

00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:43.319
And there's a two-step process to this. The first is devolution.

00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:47.059
And devolution is a way where people,

00:55:47.433 --> 00:55:54.593
whatever the executive is, will start taking away the responsibility of that

00:55:54.593 --> 00:55:56.913
bureaucracy and saying that, okay,

00:55:57.153 --> 00:56:03.933
either I can delegate that responsibility to someone else or I can combine services together.

00:56:03.953 --> 00:56:09.133
So if you have, you know, 50 departments in the Department of Health and Human

00:56:09.133 --> 00:56:14.713
Services and then you reduce it to 25, well, you're doubling the work of individuals.

00:56:14.713 --> 00:56:17.153
And so then that creates inefficiency.

00:56:17.193 --> 00:56:24.273
And if you have inefficiency, then therein lies the people that fall through

00:56:24.273 --> 00:56:30.113
the cracks because you don't have as many eyes on those particular services

00:56:30.113 --> 00:56:33.213
and processes as originally intended.

00:56:33.213 --> 00:56:39.793
And then once you start doing this devolution, people start gaining or feeling

00:56:39.793 --> 00:56:46.153
frustrated and they want to get rid of or they have no longer have trust for the government.

00:56:46.433 --> 00:56:50.053
Then that moves into the second step, which is privatization.

00:56:50.793 --> 00:56:56.993
So once we get frustrated, we as a people, we get frustrated with how long it

00:56:56.993 --> 00:57:02.313
takes to get these services because, again, you reduced the size of government.

00:57:02.313 --> 00:57:05.433
Those services, though, are not going away.

00:57:05.833 --> 00:57:12.573
Those services do not go away. What happens is that the people then get frustrated

00:57:12.573 --> 00:57:17.733
with the inefficiency of government because of the dismantling of government

00:57:17.733 --> 00:57:22.173
and then pushes those services to the private sector.

00:57:22.393 --> 00:57:28.133
The private sector will follow some of the rules. At the same time,

00:57:28.293 --> 00:57:33.453
they will not. The private sector will not take that through line all the way,

00:57:33.633 --> 00:57:35.113
the way the government does.

00:57:35.353 --> 00:57:40.253
For example, folks get frustrated with the United States Post Office.

00:57:40.573 --> 00:57:45.353
And you can get frustrated with them at the same time the Postmaster General

00:57:45.353 --> 00:57:48.693
was someone who did not like the U.S.

00:57:48.793 --> 00:57:55.113
Post Office. And so there was, under the former, the previous Trump administration,

00:57:55.493 --> 00:57:58.633
there was an effort to get rid of the U.S. post office.

00:57:58.793 --> 00:58:03.453
And even before the Trump administration, there was an effort by the Republican

00:58:03.453 --> 00:58:09.893
Congress to start chipping away at their funding such that you had a reduction

00:58:09.893 --> 00:58:14.473
in workforce and closing of post office offices around the country.

00:58:14.473 --> 00:58:22.813
Then you had an increased drumbeat to get these private delivery companies to deliver packages.

00:58:23.955 --> 00:58:29.075
Here's the challenge. Those private delivery companies may deliver your package

00:58:29.075 --> 00:58:32.055
a day or two sooner than you would get from the post office.

00:58:32.055 --> 00:58:37.735
At the same time, those private companies do not go to rural areas.

00:58:37.895 --> 00:58:40.115
They do not go to remote areas.

00:58:40.375 --> 00:58:43.695
What those private companies do is they

00:58:43.695 --> 00:58:49.975
will take your money to deliver your package and then they will give your package

00:58:49.975 --> 00:58:55.995
to the post office to deliver your package to your remote area because it does

00:58:55.995 --> 00:59:02.575
not make them financial sense to go that extra mile to go to your home. That is privatization.

00:59:02.795 --> 00:59:04.815
You're still using government services.

00:59:05.235 --> 00:59:11.935
And when the thought comes to you that this is going to save the government

00:59:11.935 --> 00:59:19.875
money, that is also false because the government will then contract with those private entities.

00:59:20.235 --> 00:59:25.355
So even though those employees are not on the government payroll,

00:59:25.675 --> 00:59:28.255
that does not mean that the government is not paying.

00:59:28.475 --> 00:59:33.855
It means that the government has now decided to get a middleman to do the work.

00:59:33.955 --> 00:59:35.995
We are still paying for those services.

00:59:36.195 --> 00:59:42.535
It's just that we, the people, no longer are able to have accountability with

00:59:42.535 --> 00:59:44.495
those individuals in the private sector.

00:59:44.755 --> 00:59:51.735
And then once that takes place, then there is no, we no longer need government.

00:59:51.855 --> 00:59:57.275
And that's how you destroy your republic. And that's how you destroy your democracy.

00:59:57.795 --> 01:00:00.875
Yeah. Cause even at that, right.

01:00:01.115 --> 01:00:08.155
When you talk about privatization, you know, a lot of the conservatives say,

01:00:08.235 --> 01:00:12.215
well, we don't like this redistribution of wealth you're talking about.

01:00:12.415 --> 01:00:17.595
You want to take money from rich folks and give it to poor folks.

01:00:17.895 --> 01:00:21.795
I said, but privatization is a redistribution of wealth.

01:00:22.375 --> 01:00:29.295
It's like instead of making sure that people have good jobs,

01:00:29.575 --> 01:00:35.695
you want to take those jobs away and redistribute that wealth to the wealthy

01:00:35.695 --> 01:00:38.255
already because they already own these big corporations.

01:00:38.675 --> 01:00:41.435
So you just made game no more money. And then you're like, wow,

01:00:41.535 --> 01:00:46.395
you know, am I far off in, in, in, in my rebuttal to that?

01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:52.340
No, you're not. You're absolutely correct. And what I explained to my students,

01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:56.060
we also go through this exercise on social welfare.

01:00:56.380 --> 01:01:03.900
And of course, you know, welfare is the definition of welfare is the government,

01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:09.400
the government using its services and resources for the financial stability

01:01:09.400 --> 01:01:13.480
of the country, for the financial stability of the country.

01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:21.400
So when we talk about welfare, because we've accepted the narrative of the 1970s

01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:25.380
and 1980s, we attribute welfare to poor people.

01:01:25.540 --> 01:01:29.940
So we think of housing, Section 8 housing or food stamps or Medicaid.

01:01:30.180 --> 01:01:35.060
That's what we think of when it comes to us welfare. At the same time,

01:01:35.300 --> 01:01:40.920
when we give tax breaks to corporations, that is a form of welfare.

01:01:41.540 --> 01:01:47.700
We don't call it that, though. So what we tend to do is take the same program

01:01:47.700 --> 01:01:52.880
or the same thought, and depending on which audience we're speaking to,

01:01:53.140 --> 01:01:59.800
we either put that negative connotation, redistribution of wealth or welfare on the poor people.

01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:05.880
Yet when it's the poor people paying for this private sector,

01:02:06.080 --> 01:02:10.820
then that's called economic development or job creation.

01:02:11.120 --> 01:02:15.900
And when we take a look at those particular components,

01:02:15.900 --> 01:02:24.980
we do not see these job creators making these jobs as they have gaslighted us

01:02:24.980 --> 01:02:26.860
into believing that that's what they're doing.

01:02:26.860 --> 01:02:33.240
It's not true, but we don't question it because then we are considered anti-business.

01:02:34.080 --> 01:02:39.780
Yeah. And, you know, the biggest selling, well, the biggest buyers into that

01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:46.940
thought process is the those what I call the poor whites, the Appalachians,

01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:53.060
those folks in Hill Country, Mississippi and, you know, Alabama,

01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:56.660
Georgia, all in the South. They just, they buy into that.

01:02:56.860 --> 01:03:00.420
They think, oh, well, you know, what little money I'm paying,

01:03:00.540 --> 01:03:02.780
I'm paying for these folks ain't even trying to work.

01:03:03.040 --> 01:03:06.940
And it's like, you know, I don't know if you've looked around your neighborhood,

01:03:06.940 --> 01:03:11.300
but there's some folks that don't want to pay for what life that you're living,

01:03:11.920 --> 01:03:14.520
you know, what government assistance you're getting.

01:03:14.520 --> 01:03:18.080
And a lot of these people don't understand that when they go to their health

01:03:18.080 --> 01:03:19.740
clinic, that's government.

01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:22.560
When they go to the school, that's government.

01:03:23.080 --> 01:03:28.020
And so, you know, I don't know. I don't know what it's going to take really to...

01:03:29.393 --> 01:03:35.013
Get people out of that mindset. But one of the things I used to tell folks about

01:03:35.013 --> 01:03:40.373
being in legislature was that we have two options anytime a bill comes forward.

01:03:41.493 --> 01:03:44.973
The preamble sets the guidelines for legislation.

01:03:45.453 --> 01:03:46.993
Either this bill is going to

01:03:46.993 --> 01:03:50.333
protect individual liberty or it's going to promote the general welfare.

01:03:50.753 --> 01:03:54.753
The magic bills are the ones that protect both, right?

01:03:55.253 --> 01:04:00.933
And so, So, you know, like you said, people have this negative connotation on the word welfare.

01:04:01.173 --> 01:04:06.253
I said, that is the primary objective of government, as stated out in the preamble,

01:04:06.413 --> 01:04:11.213
to protect liberty, promote to general welfare, and to provide defense.

01:04:11.993 --> 01:04:16.353
Those are the three basic tenets of government set in the first paragraph of

01:04:16.353 --> 01:04:21.333
our governing document. So if you don't like welfare, then that's a third of

01:04:21.333 --> 01:04:24.853
the government responsibility that you don't like.

01:04:25.093 --> 01:04:30.813
And that poses a problem. And I think that's where we get caught in the weeds

01:04:30.813 --> 01:04:33.013
a lot of times in our political discussions.

01:04:34.133 --> 01:04:39.093
I agree. All right. So speaking about bureaucracies, right, we got this big

01:04:39.093 --> 01:04:41.613
one called the Department of Homeland Security.

01:04:43.173 --> 01:04:47.653
And I got a couple of questions I need to ask you about what they're doing.

01:04:48.013 --> 01:04:54.033
So the first question is, what message is the Trump administration sending when

01:04:54.033 --> 01:04:59.453
a judge and a mayor are being arrested concerning immigration?

01:04:59.453 --> 01:05:04.533
What they're saying is, is that they're taking the position,

01:05:04.533 --> 01:05:11.733
which is a fair position, that the federal government has the responsibility

01:05:11.733 --> 01:05:15.553
over immigration and its borders, which is true.

01:05:15.553 --> 01:05:22.593
At the same time, the separation of powers or, you know, federalism,

01:05:22.973 --> 01:05:28.373
where you have the federal government coming into local government or state

01:05:28.373 --> 01:05:31.713
government to interrupt their proceedings...

01:05:33.453 --> 01:05:37.133
When they are not violating the Constitution, is a challenge.

01:05:37.973 --> 01:05:47.153
So the interfering with the court or even with the duties of a mayor,

01:05:47.353 --> 01:05:52.453
if they are not violating the Constitution, then what is the foundation for the arrest?

01:05:52.813 --> 01:05:55.853
And therein lies the question.

01:05:56.173 --> 01:06:03.033
So the judge, it was noted that she did her proceedings as she is supposed to do.

01:06:03.033 --> 01:06:11.173
And the so-called warrant that was provided to her was not signed by a judge.

01:06:11.353 --> 01:06:16.493
Thus, she had no obligation to follow what was in that warrant.

01:06:16.493 --> 01:06:25.393
The thing that the Trump administration is doing is intimidating state and local

01:06:25.393 --> 01:06:31.053
individuals into acquiescing to whatever it is that they want,

01:06:31.253 --> 01:06:33.033
regardless of the legality.

01:06:33.033 --> 01:06:37.993
And part of this tactic, this bullying tactic,

01:06:38.313 --> 01:06:48.133
is to stoke fear on the bystanders, such that if the Trump administration comes to the bystanders,

01:06:48.313 --> 01:06:55.053
then the bystanders would have learned a lesson from these other public acts

01:06:55.053 --> 01:07:00.873
and retaliation tactics that the administration has taken upon other folks.

01:07:02.333 --> 01:07:05.873
Yeah and and and obviously nobody

01:07:05.873 --> 01:07:08.873
in the trump administration watches the show the good fight because

01:07:08.873 --> 01:07:12.813
they literally had an episode where you

01:07:12.813 --> 01:07:16.093
know article 10 was in play whereas like

01:07:16.093 --> 01:07:19.053
these these fbi folks wanted to arrest this woman

01:07:19.053 --> 01:07:24.633
who was a witness and the judge told the witness to go in my chambers and you

01:07:24.633 --> 01:07:27.693
know go in her chambers and all that stuff and then they arrested the judge

01:07:27.693 --> 01:07:31.333
for that and you know they went through the whole trial i said y'all obviously

01:07:31.333 --> 01:07:37.433
did not see that episode so good luck on on that what would you do good.

01:07:38.711 --> 01:07:43.631
Well, if I could also say, though, it's also very interesting because these

01:07:43.631 --> 01:07:48.771
are the same people, depending on what the issue is, are pro-state's rights.

01:07:49.111 --> 01:07:56.411
So if they are pro the 10th Amendment, you know, it works whenever it's convenient for them.

01:07:56.591 --> 01:08:02.591
And that's part of the interesting dynamic right now is that now that these

01:08:02.591 --> 01:08:04.271
folks are in federal government.

01:08:04.471 --> 01:08:09.531
They want all this power that the federal government can yield.

01:08:09.731 --> 01:08:14.911
At the same time, when they are not in power, they are pro-states' rights.

01:08:15.111 --> 01:08:21.511
It is incredibly fascinating, and I know it's been said by individuals since

01:08:21.511 --> 01:08:27.211
the Trump administration took office, is that if the former President Biden,

01:08:28.051 --> 01:08:31.611
former President Jimmy Carter, former President Clinton, and former President

01:08:31.611 --> 01:08:39.151
Barack Obama did any of these acts, impeachment and conviction would be so there.

01:08:39.371 --> 01:08:43.351
The amount of lawsuits against the administration would be there.

01:08:43.771 --> 01:08:49.531
News outlets would be calling them tyrants and wannabe kings and dictators and so forth.

01:08:49.711 --> 01:08:52.371
Yet this administration is doing...

01:08:53.772 --> 01:09:00.852
Harm to how we view our federal government, which creates fear in our states.

01:09:01.052 --> 01:09:07.012
And really, it's interesting to see the chipping away of the 10th Amendment to the Constitution.

01:09:07.512 --> 01:09:10.712
Right. And you said it right. I said Article 10. I meant the 10th Amendment.

01:09:11.072 --> 01:09:17.672
And that also applies to Mayor Baraka in Newark, because, you know,

01:09:17.812 --> 01:09:22.232
if it was a government facility, there would be limitations.

01:09:23.052 --> 01:09:28.532
But it is a private company that is doing business in his city.

01:09:28.952 --> 01:09:33.952
Now, you may have a government contract, but you're a private business in his city.

01:09:34.092 --> 01:09:39.152
And so there are certain rules that you're supposed to adhere to in the city of Newark.

01:09:39.432 --> 01:09:44.132
And his job is to make sure that those rules are being enforced.

01:09:44.292 --> 01:09:50.252
Now, he could have sent the fire marshal he could have sent the the health inspector

01:09:50.252 --> 01:09:53.432
he could have sent uh you know,

01:09:53.992 --> 01:09:57.332
somebody in permitting he could have sent anybody from city government to go

01:09:57.332 --> 01:10:00.952
down there but he wanted to go down there and especially since they were members

01:10:00.952 --> 01:10:04.532
of congress showing up he definitely wanted to go down there because you you

01:10:04.532 --> 01:10:06.032
had told him before he couldn't come.

01:10:07.072 --> 01:10:11.472
And so now there's members of congress there so he wants to be there for that

01:10:11.472 --> 01:10:15.952
But, you know, it's just, and I said, again, they don't have any sense of history.

01:10:16.112 --> 01:10:18.732
I said, of all of the mayors that you decided to arrest first,

01:10:18.772 --> 01:10:25.452
you arrest the son of one of America's real political prisoners. Right.

01:10:26.112 --> 01:10:28.232
And I just, I was like, really?

01:10:28.972 --> 01:10:32.632
OK, you want you wanted to get him anyway.

01:10:34.232 --> 01:10:39.872
I just I mean, they're tone deaf on that. And speaking about being tone deaf, right?

01:10:40.532 --> 01:10:46.992
What's your take on the Afrikaners from South Africa being given political asylum in the United States?

01:10:48.128 --> 01:10:51.128
It's very telling, right? It's very telling.

01:10:51.128 --> 01:11:00.208
If we appreciate the history of South Africa and colonization and apartheid,

01:11:00.328 --> 01:11:11.948
the notion that when the Black South Africans are retaking control of their country,

01:11:12.288 --> 01:11:20.168
retaking control of their land, And really to stand for some of the discrimination

01:11:20.168 --> 01:11:28.328
and the segregation and the financial slavery that Black South Africans went through,

01:11:28.568 --> 01:11:37.468
the still notion of interracial marriage being illegal and the children literally are illegal.

01:11:37.468 --> 01:11:44.608
And all of this atrocity that one could argue, as you said, sir,

01:11:44.948 --> 01:11:53.328
if we know our history, why are we giving space to those individuals who benefited

01:11:53.328 --> 01:12:00.248
from and who quite possibly participated in the discrimination, the segregation,

01:12:00.708 --> 01:12:06.748
the dehumanization of individuals who are Native to their own country?

01:12:06.748 --> 01:12:11.568
And to what we're saying is it is okay.

01:12:12.288 --> 01:12:20.048
What we're saying is it is okay for a group of individuals to have inflicted

01:12:20.048 --> 01:12:26.728
upon, profited from such dehumanization to have refuge in this country.

01:12:27.048 --> 01:12:30.788
And that's very interesting considering the.

01:12:32.356 --> 01:12:36.996
First Europeans that came to this country seeking solace for,

01:12:36.996 --> 01:12:42.056
you know, political and religious persecution.

01:12:43.476 --> 01:12:52.576
I would like for us to be very mindful of not allowing there to be a correlation

01:12:52.576 --> 01:13:00.336
between these white South Africans and those that came to this country originally

01:13:00.336 --> 01:13:02.536
that created of these United States,

01:13:02.536 --> 01:13:04.756
because that's what's going to happen.

01:13:05.156 --> 01:13:11.376
There's going to be where we are conflating histories, and we are going to find

01:13:11.376 --> 01:13:15.396
a way, twist ourselves into a way to make this okay,

01:13:15.836 --> 01:13:22.316
to make this similar in its plight, the way that some folks who are wanting

01:13:22.316 --> 01:13:27.396
to create discriminatory policies always invoke Martin Luther King, right?

01:13:27.516 --> 01:13:33.316
There's always the MLK reference that this is what he would want and we're going

01:13:33.316 --> 01:13:38.976
to take away affirmative action and all of these other items because Dr.

01:13:39.116 --> 01:13:44.196
King said he wants his children to be blah, blah, blah.

01:13:44.436 --> 01:13:51.616
No, no, we should be very mindful of people using the leadership,

01:13:51.636 --> 01:13:54.196
the words, the inspiration,

01:13:54.676 --> 01:14:02.876
the accounts of others and using them to say another thing is okay.

01:14:02.876 --> 01:14:05.696
I hope that we are very mindful of that.

01:14:06.356 --> 01:14:12.876
Yeah. And, you know, we're approaching the 100th birthday of Malcolm X.

01:14:13.136 --> 01:14:20.756
Yes, May 19th. And one of his major, you know, everybody knows about by any

01:14:20.756 --> 01:14:24.396
means necessary and, you know, the speech to battle the bullet.

01:14:24.396 --> 01:14:30.956
But one of the things that he always stressed was that education is is the passport to our future.

01:14:32.156 --> 01:14:37.516
And, you know, I think it's because of a lack of education that,

01:14:37.656 --> 01:14:43.916
you know, we were talking about bureaucracy or, you know, my previous guests,

01:14:44.036 --> 01:14:45.776
we talking about white privilege. Right.

01:14:46.196 --> 01:14:50.596
It's like if you don't understand white privilege, then you you've got a clear

01:14:50.596 --> 01:14:54.436
example when those 59 people from South Africa were brought here. Thank you.

01:14:55.060 --> 01:15:00.400
They're trying to say that, well, the rumor is that these people were being

01:15:00.400 --> 01:15:06.540
victims of genocide and, you know, they just taken their land and all this kind of stuff.

01:15:07.180 --> 01:15:11.520
And, and I just sat there and said, if I outnumbered you 93 to seven,

01:15:11.700 --> 01:15:14.680
it wouldn't have took me 35 years to commit to genocide.

01:15:15.080 --> 01:15:19.640
If that was my intention, you know, all those years that those,

01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:23.740
you know, if, if you don't understand, you need to get, I think it's Wretched

01:15:23.740 --> 01:15:27.100
of the Earth by Franz Fonin. Is that it?

01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:30.660
I can't recall. Yeah, I think that's the book.

01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:34.200
I might be butchering his name. I'm sure somebody's going to let me know.

01:15:34.340 --> 01:15:39.500
But if you really want to know about that, Franz Fonin and Wretched of the Earth,

01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:42.440
those are the you really want to understand.

01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:45.840
Pay attention to what happened to Stephen Biko. Pay attention to what happened

01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:50.400
to Nelson Mandela. Pay attention to what Desmond Tutu was talking about.

01:15:50.980 --> 01:15:56.480
And and and and then you you would look at those 59 people it was like i didn't

01:15:56.480 --> 01:16:01.360
just throwing 60 because you got elon musk in that that click too right and

01:16:01.360 --> 01:16:07.460
so you know for those folks you know if you if you don't understand what's been

01:16:07.460 --> 01:16:10.480
going on and i'm i'm real sensitive to that because,

01:16:11.060 --> 01:16:16.740
that was the big issue when i was in college about divestiture and you know and dealing with that.

01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:21.660
Heck, in my class, I had to take the pro-apartheid side for my debate class,

01:16:22.300 --> 01:16:26.800
just so, because my teacher was like, I need y'all to be able to make arguments

01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:29.100
based on facts, not on emotion.

01:16:30.220 --> 01:16:34.220
And, you know, unfortunately or fortunately, I won.

01:16:34.620 --> 01:16:41.900
You know what I'm saying? But it was like just getting the literature and seeing

01:16:41.900 --> 01:16:45.280
what they were saying about Black people, about African people, people.

01:16:46.409 --> 01:16:50.649
The literature, and this is in the 20th century, stuff that they were saying

01:16:50.649 --> 01:16:55.769
about Black slaves in the 17th and 18th century in this country, right?

01:16:55.869 --> 01:16:58.849
They were saying in the 20th century about Africans there.

01:16:59.609 --> 01:17:08.589
So to me, as a Black person, those 59 people sitting for the United States is a direct insult to me.

01:17:08.989 --> 01:17:14.389
Now, I can't speak for any other Black person, but for me, it's a direct insult

01:17:14.389 --> 01:17:19.469
because I'm educated and I know my history and I know what your message you're trying to send.

01:17:19.769 --> 01:17:24.989
And I think it's a shame that you want to give these 59 people,

01:17:25.029 --> 01:17:29.049
and I think there's 500 more coming, but you want to give these people,

01:17:29.049 --> 01:17:33.189
you know, asylum, but you want to take away,

01:17:34.429 --> 01:17:43.869
to protect the status from Afghanistan natives who helped our troops during

01:17:43.869 --> 01:17:47.229
the wars that we were there, the 20 years that we were there.

01:17:47.429 --> 01:17:51.429
These were people, you don't want to give them status. You want to take away

01:17:51.429 --> 01:17:54.609
the status from the Venezuelans. You want to take away the status from the Haitians.

01:17:54.829 --> 01:17:58.849
You want to take away the status from the Cubans, but you want to give these

01:17:58.849 --> 01:18:06.529
people special protection that that sends me a message i and i i you know but

01:18:06.529 --> 01:18:11.989
that's that's just me i just that's that's what's burning on my chest you want

01:18:11.989 --> 01:18:14.329
to add anything to that doc you gonna let that ride.

01:18:15.658 --> 01:18:19.858
Well, it's also a way to increase the white population in this country.

01:18:19.858 --> 01:18:24.078
Since the white population is decreasing, it's declining.

01:18:24.478 --> 01:18:30.198
That's part of why abortion bans are so rampant through this country is because

01:18:30.198 --> 01:18:32.378
the white population is decreasing.

01:18:32.378 --> 01:18:38.278
And there is a conspiratorial fear, to your point,

01:18:38.598 --> 01:18:43.718
that when the white population becomes the minority,

01:18:43.718 --> 01:18:49.798
that there is a conspiracy that all of these black and brown people are going

01:18:49.798 --> 01:18:54.518
to get together and do to white people what white people have done to black and brown people.

01:18:54.518 --> 01:19:00.098
And so this is a way, this is why you see from certain countries,

01:19:00.478 --> 01:19:02.958
depending on what country it is in Europe,

01:19:03.458 --> 01:19:11.298
the free flowing of visas and easy access to green cards and citizenship that

01:19:11.298 --> 01:19:16.738
you get from those countries as opposed to the ones that you just noted.

01:19:17.538 --> 01:19:22.658
I, you know, I know the president was feeling the Norwegian thing,

01:19:22.898 --> 01:19:25.798
the first administration. He seemed like he was fascinated with them.

01:19:26.798 --> 01:19:31.358
That's why he wanted to Greenland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, and Canada.

01:19:31.998 --> 01:19:39.838
But, you know, if he's dependent on these 59 folks, it's like he didn't pick the youngest ones.

01:19:41.078 --> 01:19:45.718
His Noah arc is going to be very disappointing.

01:19:47.038 --> 01:19:51.958
All right, look, let's get to some of this local stuff real quick while I got you, because I—.

01:19:53.305 --> 01:19:57.665
I got to ask this question because Georgia is a national player in politics.

01:19:57.885 --> 01:20:02.265
So whoever is the next governor to say to Georgia, that's going to be a national figure.

01:20:02.505 --> 01:20:04.545
And we can thank the stage for that.

01:20:04.985 --> 01:20:10.625
And of course, we got a U.S. Senate race coming up. So here's the here's the question for governor.

01:20:10.625 --> 01:20:14.765
You have State Senator Jason Estevez,

01:20:15.665 --> 01:20:20.285
former Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr,

01:20:20.585 --> 01:20:25.345
former DeKalb County CEO Michael Thurman, Stacey Abrams,

01:20:26.145 --> 01:20:31.065
and Georgia Lieutenant Governor Burt Jones, either running or contemplating a run.

01:20:31.305 --> 01:20:36.045
Now, as for governor, for the U.S. Senate race to challenge Senator Ossoff,

01:20:36.785 --> 01:20:42.485
MTG, or Marjorie Taylor Greene and Governor Kemp have taken their names out,

01:20:42.505 --> 01:20:45.665
but Earl Buddy Carter has jumped in.

01:20:46.125 --> 01:20:50.865
And if you don't know who Earl Buddy Carter is, if you're paying attention on

01:20:50.865 --> 01:20:57.985
TikTok and you saw this video where AOC put down a Republican member for accusing

01:20:57.985 --> 01:21:01.125
her of looking at the camera instead of talking directly to him.

01:21:01.805 --> 01:21:04.865
Buddy Carter was the dude trying to gavel her silent.

01:21:05.105 --> 01:21:08.565
So that's the dude that wants to run against Ossoff.

01:21:08.685 --> 01:21:13.465
So if y'all are on TikTok and y'all see that video, that guy chairing that meeting,

01:21:13.625 --> 01:21:15.505
that's the guy that wants to run against Ossoff.

01:21:15.645 --> 01:21:21.325
So again, Georgia, we don't have, we don't, as a collective,

01:21:21.685 --> 01:21:26.945
we don't have the best congressman, at least on the Republican side of the aisle.

01:21:27.065 --> 01:21:30.745
We got all the crazy folks. We got somebody that lives in a state that's not

01:21:30.745 --> 01:21:34.725
on the Gulf, wants to rename a Gulf of Mexico. I mean, that's where we are.

01:21:35.205 --> 01:21:38.005
Anyway, I'm glad she's not running for the Senate.

01:21:38.125 --> 01:21:44.225
But anyway, what's your take, Doc, on these races and how it's going to play

01:21:44.225 --> 01:21:45.405
out? And it's important.

01:21:45.985 --> 01:21:55.665
So my take on it is that while I appreciate some of the pushing of particularly the Democrats,

01:21:55.665 --> 01:22:04.745
There has not been a statewide Democrat elected to office here in almost two decades.

01:22:05.225 --> 01:22:09.925
It's a very long time. I want to say Michael Thurman is the last one we've had.

01:22:09.925 --> 01:22:13.245
The last one, right? The last one.

01:22:13.605 --> 01:22:23.685
And so I'm curious how folks here in Georgia like to see optimism versus what

01:22:23.685 --> 01:22:27.525
is reality or even folks that are looking at Georgia,

01:22:27.525 --> 01:22:31.405
the optimistic view versus the realistic view.

01:22:32.537 --> 01:22:40.177
Realistic view is this, that we will not get a liberal to win in Georgia.

01:22:40.277 --> 01:22:44.917
It's disappointing to say to some, at the same time, it is what it is.

01:22:45.017 --> 01:22:49.277
And the reason it is what it is, is because, not because of the population of

01:22:49.277 --> 01:22:51.277
Georgia, it's because who votes in Georgia.

01:22:51.497 --> 01:22:58.397
And we confuse those two populations, that the overall population,

01:22:58.397 --> 01:23:03.497
you know, may be racially diverse, may be economically diverse,

01:23:03.837 --> 01:23:08.997
may be all of these things that we aspire that is the canary in the coal mine

01:23:08.997 --> 01:23:11.097
in the former Confederacy.

01:23:11.277 --> 01:23:17.397
At the same time, the people who are voting, it is a skewed population from

01:23:17.397 --> 01:23:18.917
the overall population.

01:23:19.437 --> 01:23:22.577
So we want policy to move forward.

01:23:22.857 --> 01:23:30.017
We want these things. At the same time, someone who identifies as liberal will

01:23:30.017 --> 01:23:38.037
have an extremely challenging time to win the entire state outside of Metro Atlanta.

01:23:38.037 --> 01:23:44.777
And I think that that's something that we as a whole, those of us that are politically

01:23:44.777 --> 01:23:50.497
sophisticated, who are in the know, who follows these things all the time,

01:23:50.797 --> 01:23:54.317
that is something that we have to grapple with.

01:23:54.317 --> 01:24:00.357
Is that either we start talking to the irregular voter,

01:24:00.657 --> 01:24:09.877
to non-voters constantly in realistic terms, in facts, and talk about consequences and impacts.

01:24:10.137 --> 01:24:15.537
If we start talking to those folks, then you could probably have a more liberal

01:24:15.537 --> 01:24:18.017
person to win statewide in Georgia.

01:24:18.397 --> 01:24:26.017
Right now, the answer is no because of the population, the population that votes. And if we could...

01:24:26.956 --> 01:24:31.096
Move the needle. We can move the needle. We can move the needle.

01:24:31.156 --> 01:24:37.276
As far as we want to move it, the work has to take place 24-7, 365.

01:24:37.996 --> 01:24:41.036
And we don't do that work 24-7, 365.

01:24:41.996 --> 01:24:48.156
Right now, since the state party changed its rules, so now we have a full-time,

01:24:48.916 --> 01:24:50.996
Democratic Party chair in Georgia.

01:24:51.216 --> 01:24:56.216
So that means that this person can fundraise and hopefully be more strategic

01:24:56.216 --> 01:25:05.116
about some of these races and consider being competitive in light pink or, you know,

01:25:05.296 --> 01:25:08.616
whatever counties, because to me,

01:25:08.816 --> 01:25:18.036
there has been a consistent decline in the state party's willingness to be competitive

01:25:18.036 --> 01:25:20.976
in some of these seats, right?

01:25:20.976 --> 01:25:27.876
So, you know, I akin my thought process to Howard Dean when he was the national

01:25:27.876 --> 01:25:29.536
Democratic Party chair.

01:25:29.776 --> 01:25:34.396
And why not have 159 county strategy in this state?

01:25:34.636 --> 01:25:42.636
Why do you just give up some of these seats to Republicans because historically Republicans have won?

01:25:42.816 --> 01:25:47.036
Well, historically they have won because you have opted out of participating.

01:25:47.036 --> 01:25:52.536
You know, one could argue that Lucy McBath should not have run when she ran

01:25:52.536 --> 01:25:55.616
for her original district. Why?

01:25:55.876 --> 01:26:03.396
Because the Republicans had had that seat since 1978, almost 50 years now.

01:26:03.576 --> 01:26:07.136
So what was the point of her competing in that race?

01:26:09.416 --> 01:26:14.396
The sequiescing of this, the pushing back, the say that I'm not going to compete

01:26:14.396 --> 01:26:17.536
because no one has won that seat in over a decade.

01:26:18.116 --> 01:26:24.196
That kind of defeatist posture is where...

01:26:25.623 --> 01:26:32.003
Georgia can get so close yet so far because there has not been, as the young kids say.

01:26:32.983 --> 01:26:38.443
You know, being 10 toes down and standing on business and saying,

01:26:38.623 --> 01:26:44.123
you can see the need for certain things in Georgia.

01:26:44.963 --> 01:26:51.603
This whole notion of, number one, being hyper-partisan, especially in spaces

01:26:51.603 --> 01:26:56.383
where you have not been visible, does not make sense.

01:26:56.603 --> 01:27:00.223
It does not make political sense if you want to win.

01:27:00.503 --> 01:27:05.683
And perhaps that's my biggest question. That is probably my question for the

01:27:05.683 --> 01:27:09.343
rest of 2025 and 2026 and in 2028.

01:27:09.623 --> 01:27:15.983
Do you really want to win? And if the answer is yes, then the current strategy must be changed.

01:27:16.623 --> 01:27:21.783
Yeah. So you got Charlie Bailey, who has run statewide twice.

01:27:22.183 --> 01:27:24.483
I think he ran for Attorney General and Lieutenant Governor.

01:27:24.683 --> 01:27:25.843
He's the new party chair.

01:27:26.223 --> 01:27:31.803
I think he brings a certain sensibility to the concerns that you have.

01:27:32.323 --> 01:27:38.283
And I definitely agree. And one of the big barometers and, you know,

01:27:38.463 --> 01:27:40.443
Congresswoman Williams,

01:27:40.843 --> 01:27:45.103
who has been the party chair, and even though it hasn't been a full time position

01:27:45.103 --> 01:27:51.403
for her, I think one of the takeaways is is the fact that, you know,

01:27:51.923 --> 01:27:54.243
Georgia is in play now.

01:27:54.803 --> 01:27:59.623
And out of all of the swing states in the last election, Georgia was the only

01:27:59.623 --> 01:28:02.103
one that increased their Democratic numbers.

01:28:02.783 --> 01:28:06.603
Now, of course, the Republican increased their numbers, and that's why Trump won the state.

01:28:06.823 --> 01:28:12.403
But Kamala Harris got 70,000 more votes than Biden did when Biden won the state in 2020.

01:28:13.543 --> 01:28:16.683
So, as you say, they can move the needle.

01:28:18.008 --> 01:28:22.108
Lost Milledgeville, right? It's like you could be as a Democrat,

01:28:22.108 --> 01:28:26.388
you could win Atlanta, you could win Athens, you could win Columbus,

01:28:26.768 --> 01:28:31.148
you could win Macon, you could win Savannah, and it used to be you could win Milledgeville.

01:28:31.768 --> 01:28:35.168
We lost Milledgeville this last election. So now.

01:28:35.888 --> 01:28:40.748
Not only do you need to win that for any of these statewide seats,

01:28:40.788 --> 01:28:43.988
and when we say statewide, we're talking about the constitutional seats because

01:28:43.988 --> 01:28:47.008
we know Raphael Warnock is an African-American who's the U.S.

01:28:47.008 --> 01:28:50.688
Senator but to to win

01:28:50.688 --> 01:28:53.968
these constitutional seats you know

01:28:53.968 --> 01:28:56.868
it's kind of a even if

01:28:56.868 --> 01:29:01.208
we pulled this off right even if the democrats say okay we got the governorship

01:29:01.208 --> 01:29:06.508
if you don't have control of the house or the senate what does that mean right

01:29:06.508 --> 01:29:11.608
so yeah because the people in the back didn't hear you if you don't have control

01:29:11.608 --> 01:29:15.668
of the house or the senate then the democratic governor is going to be like

01:29:15.668 --> 01:29:16.708
those governors you see,

01:29:16.808 --> 01:29:19.948
like the poor governor of Wisconsin and a few other states where it's like.

01:29:20.608 --> 01:29:21.948
Well, at least I can veto stuff.

01:29:22.328 --> 01:29:24.708
You know what I'm saying? And that's all that governor will do.

01:29:24.848 --> 01:29:26.788
They won't be able to implement the agenda.

01:29:26.948 --> 01:29:30.788
They'll just stop all the bad stuff from happening. And as being a former black

01:29:30.788 --> 01:29:35.388
caucus member in the legislature, I understand the power of being able to say

01:29:35.388 --> 01:29:39.108
no and killing stuff, but you want the governor to do more.

01:29:39.328 --> 01:29:45.448
So So for the Democratic Party to really be effective, and I'm agreeing with

01:29:45.448 --> 01:29:48.728
what you're saying, you've got to have 159 county strategy.

01:29:48.888 --> 01:29:53.788
And more importantly, you've got to win those swing districts in the legislature

01:29:53.788 --> 01:29:57.648
and turn that legislature out.

01:29:57.768 --> 01:30:01.508
Even if you don't win the statewide seats, if you can turn that legislature

01:30:01.508 --> 01:30:07.908
out and even just flip one, that would be a huge thing. But I think if you flip

01:30:07.908 --> 01:30:10.068
one of them, you're going to get a statewide position.

01:30:11.388 --> 01:30:15.428
Now, I think Ossoff is going to beat the brakes out of Buddy Carter.

01:30:15.588 --> 01:30:18.588
If that's the guy that's running against the guy I saw in that TikTok video,

01:30:18.748 --> 01:30:20.128
he's going to beat the brakes off of him.

01:30:20.768 --> 01:30:28.588
But now, one, I don't know, and I don't want to take up too much more time,

01:30:28.708 --> 01:30:33.808
but I just remember when I was in Mississippi, there was a race between Charlie

01:30:33.808 --> 01:30:35.688
Ross, who was a state senator.

01:30:36.188 --> 01:30:42.528
He was a Harvard Law graduate, you know, Air Force pilot, smart guy.

01:30:42.668 --> 01:30:46.388
And he was running against the state auditor at the time, this guy named Phil Bryant.

01:30:46.848 --> 01:30:51.668
And Phil Bryant had been a state legislator. He was like a volunteer firefighter,

01:30:51.788 --> 01:30:53.168
insurance salesman, all that stuff.

01:30:54.128 --> 01:30:59.668
But when you put Charlie up against Phil, as far as like, if this was a battle

01:30:59.668 --> 01:31:04.168
for an IQ test, Phil wouldn't even qualify in the race, right? Right.

01:31:05.261 --> 01:31:11.301
Got to see them on a stage and Charlie was, he had the chalkboard going and

01:31:11.301 --> 01:31:13.841
he was basically breaking down the budget and saying, you know,

01:31:13.941 --> 01:31:16.061
if I'm Lieutenant Governor, this is what we're going to do.

01:31:16.201 --> 01:31:21.441
And then Phil got up there and started walking in front of the stage. Like he was at a concert.

01:31:21.841 --> 01:31:25.381
He was like, Hey y'all, you know, I'm a good old guy. And yada,

01:31:25.401 --> 01:31:28.241
yada, yada, yada started talking at the end and he beat him.

01:31:28.781 --> 01:31:32.621
And on the Republican side, That's what I'm looking at with Chris Carr and Bert Jones.

01:31:32.941 --> 01:31:39.001
Chris Carr, in his day and age of Republicanism, Chris Carr is the intellectual of the two.

01:31:39.561 --> 01:31:42.501
I mean, Bert Jones, he played football at the University of Georgia.

01:31:43.121 --> 01:31:47.721
He got in a barn and said, I'm going to get rid of your income tax, and he won.

01:31:47.901 --> 01:31:50.481
Now, Georgia still has a state income tax. Mississippi doesn't,

01:31:50.581 --> 01:31:52.621
but Georgia still doesn't have a state income tax.

01:31:54.661 --> 01:31:59.481
So, just to put that in perspective. So I think Burt Jones is going to be Republican

01:31:59.481 --> 01:32:03.441
based on my experience in Southern politics.

01:32:03.541 --> 01:32:05.641
I think Burt Jones is going to be the guy.

01:32:05.821 --> 01:32:10.441
So now the question is, who's going to beat him out of this group of folks?

01:32:10.701 --> 01:32:15.281
I don't think Stacey Abrams. I think people have lost the flavor for Stacey

01:32:15.281 --> 01:32:16.621
to be at the front of the ticket.

01:32:16.861 --> 01:32:23.341
I think they still want her to be the organizer and the person making sure that

01:32:23.341 --> 01:32:26.861
people get out to vote. I think people will always be grateful for that,

01:32:27.001 --> 01:32:30.021
but I think her at the top of the ticket, I don't know.

01:32:31.121 --> 01:32:35.181
Keisha Lance Bottoms, mayor of the largest city in the state,

01:32:36.041 --> 01:32:42.201
did one term, had to deal with police protests, COVID, fighting the governor.

01:32:43.401 --> 01:32:49.101
I don't know if Georgia is going to elect a woman because we're still in that

01:32:49.101 --> 01:32:54.481
mindset, which leaves then Michael Thurman, the last man standing as far as

01:32:54.481 --> 01:32:56.301
the Democratic constitutional officer,

01:32:56.721 --> 01:33:01.221
and Jason Estevez, who is an Afro-Latino.

01:33:01.901 --> 01:33:10.561
So I don't know. I want to be optimistic about it. And I don't know if I had

01:33:10.561 --> 01:33:14.041
to put money on it, I think Keisha would be the nominee.

01:33:14.801 --> 01:33:20.961
But I don't see that needle moving with those group of folks.

01:33:21.041 --> 01:33:23.201
And I love all these people on the Democratic side.

01:33:23.661 --> 01:33:29.921
But I'm just looking at it reality-wise like you are and just trying to figure

01:33:29.921 --> 01:33:34.221
out how we're going to get past BERT. I think, you know, people in Georgia,

01:33:34.561 --> 01:33:35.941
and we'll close out with that.

01:33:36.081 --> 01:33:41.181
I think people in Georgia look for their federal officers to be of a different

01:33:41.181 --> 01:33:43.541
standard, although it's questionable on the House side.

01:33:44.101 --> 01:33:49.481
But I think when they look at their U.S. senators, they hold the U.S.

01:33:49.901 --> 01:33:52.621
Senators to a different standard than their statewide elected officials.

01:33:52.741 --> 01:33:55.441
Is that your assessment of Georgia politics?

01:33:56.980 --> 01:34:04.300
I like that because when you think about Johnny Isakson, he was very different

01:34:04.300 --> 01:34:09.580
from many of the individuals inside of the state, right?

01:34:09.760 --> 01:34:16.740
So he had bipartisan, even from an independent standpoint, there was a collective.

01:34:16.740 --> 01:34:22.160
He had a coalition of individuals that really appreciated him as a Republican

01:34:22.160 --> 01:34:23.800
representing the state.

01:34:24.040 --> 01:34:29.240
I can see that. I can see how, for example,

01:34:29.480 --> 01:34:35.200
Ossoff does a lot of outreach and may not make everyone happy,

01:34:35.200 --> 01:34:43.800
yet he still stands in his business about whatever it is that he's talking about.

01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:47.540
And there's a lot of focus here in the state.

01:34:47.540 --> 01:34:53.300
So when it comes to some of the issues about particularly the post office,

01:34:53.480 --> 01:35:00.620
he was going in on the postmaster general all the time about how you messing

01:35:00.620 --> 01:35:02.740
up stuff in Georgia when it comes to the mail,

01:35:03.060 --> 01:35:05.120
particularly for rural areas. Right.

01:35:05.300 --> 01:35:08.520
So it was it's very interesting to see.

01:35:08.820 --> 01:35:11.620
I like that, that the U.S.

01:35:12.020 --> 01:35:17.360
Senators, there's a different standard that we expect when it comes to the senators

01:35:17.360 --> 01:35:24.760
as opposed to the statewide seats and even the folks representing us in the U.S. House.

01:35:25.340 --> 01:35:29.540
You know, there's there seems to be a different standard for that as well.

01:35:29.540 --> 01:35:30.680
That's very interesting.

01:35:30.980 --> 01:35:36.300
What I will say in terms of the governors, I would like for us to,

01:35:36.300 --> 01:35:43.900
you know, think about while someone may be popular to the primary voter,

01:35:44.140 --> 01:35:49.340
that does not turn into votes for the general election to win.

01:35:49.960 --> 01:35:56.620
And I'm curious with the new state party chair if the strategy is going to be

01:35:56.620 --> 01:36:01.200
about the general election versus the primary election.

01:36:01.540 --> 01:36:05.420
And the reason I say this is because when I teach partisanship,

01:36:05.580 --> 01:36:11.620
when I teach that lesson in class, what we tend to do is we tend to have about

01:36:11.620 --> 01:36:15.160
25 percent of the total population to vote in the primaries.

01:36:15.360 --> 01:36:19.900
And so what does that mean? That means that the people that vote in the primaries,

01:36:20.160 --> 01:36:25.000
that 25% are your dedicated voters.

01:36:25.260 --> 01:36:29.420
These are your most educated voters on the issues. These are the people that

01:36:29.420 --> 01:36:35.520
will go to a runoff election, even if it's one person or one issue on a ballot.

01:36:35.700 --> 01:36:37.300
Those are your primary voters.

01:36:37.600 --> 01:36:44.160
And so these individuals who tend to vote in the primary tend to be to the...

01:36:45.772 --> 01:36:49.272
Of your spectrum. So you're far left or you're far right.

01:36:49.512 --> 01:36:57.892
And what tends to happen to us is that that 25% then chooses who the candidate is.

01:36:58.012 --> 01:37:01.812
And then when we get to a general election and perhaps another 40,

01:37:02.032 --> 01:37:06.152
45 or 50% start paying attention, they don't like either choice.

01:37:06.352 --> 01:37:09.972
Well, they don't like either choice because they didn't participate in their

01:37:09.972 --> 01:37:15.112
primary. And the people that participated in the primary really like the choice that they made.

01:37:15.272 --> 01:37:21.932
So then it becomes that bane of my existence phrase, the choice between two evils.

01:37:22.152 --> 01:37:27.472
I hate that so much. It is because we as a collective have not participated

01:37:27.472 --> 01:37:28.932
in the primary election.

01:37:28.952 --> 01:37:31.692
So we don't like the choices in the general election.

01:37:31.892 --> 01:37:34.572
Well, we got what we got from the people that voted.

01:37:34.872 --> 01:37:42.572
And so my strategy, If it were a Tammy Greer strategy, my strategy would be

01:37:42.572 --> 01:37:44.232
the 159-county strategy.

01:37:44.492 --> 01:37:54.332
My strategy would be very clear that to have multiple-decade control of one party,

01:37:54.572 --> 01:38:01.652
flipping the switch to go to the extreme of another party is not going to work.

01:38:01.652 --> 01:38:07.172
That there is a level because people are afraid of change regardless of what

01:38:07.172 --> 01:38:09.432
they say. People fear change.

01:38:09.712 --> 01:38:12.192
So we have to take those.

01:38:12.792 --> 01:38:17.532
I know that, again, liberals don't like this, that there's a compromise here.

01:38:17.692 --> 01:38:21.752
There is a pathway to getting to where you want it to be.

01:38:22.152 --> 01:38:24.332
Georgia did not become this state overnight.

01:38:24.952 --> 01:38:29.472
California did not become California overnight. New York did not become New

01:38:29.472 --> 01:38:32.132
York overnight. There was a progression there.

01:38:32.272 --> 01:38:37.492
And if we could do this progression, you can get people who are waffling on

01:38:37.492 --> 01:38:40.312
your side and then you can gain more.

01:38:40.532 --> 01:38:45.312
However, if you just leap from one hot pot to the other, everyone is going to

01:38:45.312 --> 01:38:46.692
get burned at that point.

01:38:46.872 --> 01:38:50.832
And then you're not going to get longstanding, long lasting support.

01:38:52.110 --> 01:38:58.810
Well, I'm going to leave it there because I've stretched out your time as much as I could.

01:38:59.210 --> 01:39:03.810
And but I appreciate that assessment, because, again, I agree with you.

01:39:03.930 --> 01:39:07.210
You got to have, you know, and that goes to every state.

01:39:07.350 --> 01:39:12.350
That's not just in Georgia. If you're listening in Idaho, however many counties

01:39:12.350 --> 01:39:16.390
in Idaho, we need the Democrats to compete in every one in Wyoming.

01:39:16.770 --> 01:39:19.690
You only send one person to Congress. It's a statewide race.

01:39:19.690 --> 01:39:22.650
You might as well make it a multi-county strategy.

01:39:22.910 --> 01:39:27.050
I'm just, that's just me. Anyway, how's the new book coming?

01:39:27.210 --> 01:39:28.330
When is it going to come out?

01:39:28.710 --> 01:39:35.010
Or, and how's the coffee shop thing going? Y'all, you still got the coffee shop class happening?

01:39:35.490 --> 01:39:39.590
So the book is coming along well. Can you cut this part out?

01:39:39.810 --> 01:39:45.010
I've gotten so many rejections. I've gotten so many rejections for my book. It's very interesting.

01:39:45.270 --> 01:39:51.670
I'm hoping now with this new administration coming in, people are revisiting my book.

01:39:52.230 --> 01:39:56.670
So processing that part. And then the coffee shop thing,

01:39:56.870 --> 01:40:03.070
what I ended up doing is going to like being invited to some of these civic

01:40:03.070 --> 01:40:12.990
groups and helping individual civic groups versus doing like the big thing that I really wanted to do.

01:40:12.990 --> 01:40:18.830
Because the civic groups tend to be more focused on.

01:40:20.647 --> 01:40:25.147
What they should do differently and how to be more effective advocates.

01:40:25.367 --> 01:40:31.967
And that's been a joy there to be constantly invited to those places.

01:40:32.447 --> 01:40:39.487
So we'll have to work on the coffee shop next year so I can get through municipal

01:40:39.487 --> 01:40:42.867
elections and some of these civic groups this year.

01:40:43.287 --> 01:40:46.507
Well, I may have a lifesaver on the book.

01:40:46.647 --> 01:40:51.287
We'll talk about that offline. But as far as the podcast goes,

01:40:51.527 --> 01:40:54.347
Dr. Tammy Greer, I'm glad that you came back on.

01:40:54.667 --> 01:40:59.787
I assume the school year went well and you're looking forward to another year

01:40:59.787 --> 01:41:01.247
and teaching some young minds.

01:41:01.427 --> 01:41:05.627
And I always appreciate you for not just being on a podcast,

01:41:05.807 --> 01:41:10.627
but just doing that work because we need young leaders. We need we need some new ideas.

01:41:10.967 --> 01:41:15.967
I just greatly appreciate you coming on and and doing the work that you do.

01:41:15.967 --> 01:41:18.747
So can I put in a shameless plug?

01:41:18.947 --> 01:41:20.107
Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because

01:41:20.107 --> 01:41:22.847
I was going to ask you, how can people reach you and all that stuff?

01:41:23.007 --> 01:41:30.307
So go ahead. In the fall, fall 2025, starting August 26th is the beginning of

01:41:30.307 --> 01:41:35.187
the semester. I will teach a class entitled Protest to Policy.

01:41:35.467 --> 01:41:41.887
And this class is an advocacy class to look at what are effective strategies

01:41:41.887 --> 01:41:47.787
to move away from protesting as a solo act of demonstration,

01:41:47.787 --> 01:41:51.687
all the way through changing policy.

01:41:51.687 --> 01:41:55.407
So I am very excited to teach that class in the fall.

01:41:55.767 --> 01:41:59.947
It's going to be a roller coaster of emotions. At the same time,

01:41:59.947 --> 01:42:04.187
I am very confident that once the semester is over.

01:42:04.567 --> 01:42:10.567
That those that took the class will be more effective at their advocacy and

01:42:10.567 --> 01:42:12.547
see that there's a change that they can make.

01:42:13.387 --> 01:42:17.547
All right. Well, Dr. Greer, thank you for coming on again. I greatly appreciate

01:42:17.547 --> 01:42:21.167
it. Thank you. All right, guys, and we'll catch y'all on the other side.

01:42:21.200 --> 01:42:31.600
Music.

01:42:33.521 --> 01:42:41.361
All right. And we are back. And so I want to thank Ms. Sasha Suzuki Graham and Dr.

01:42:41.741 --> 01:42:43.661
Tammy Greer for coming on to the program.

01:42:44.661 --> 01:42:49.681
Like I said in the intro, two women who are really making an impact.

01:42:50.001 --> 01:42:54.541
And, you know, one of the things that I admire about both of them is that a

01:42:54.541 --> 01:42:58.081
lot of their work focuses in on young people.

01:42:59.421 --> 01:43:05.701
Because now I'm at that age where the young folks need to get engaged.

01:43:06.001 --> 01:43:09.581
My child is grown.

01:43:10.621 --> 01:43:14.441
Many of my peers, their children are grown.

01:43:15.141 --> 01:43:20.581
And, you know, they're of that age, either millennial or Gen X,

01:43:21.961 --> 01:43:29.361
where they need to start asserting themselves and being more engaged in the process.

01:43:31.081 --> 01:43:37.201
So I greatly admire anybody who takes the time out to mentor young folks,

01:43:37.201 --> 01:43:42.601
whether you're a full-time professor or you just visit classrooms and educate.

01:43:44.401 --> 01:43:50.141
And then I'm just really honored that they took the time to come on a podcast,

01:43:50.141 --> 01:43:52.701
especially Dr. Greer, since this is her second time.

01:43:54.081 --> 01:44:01.821
So as this podcast is dropping, it'll drop on the 100th birthday of Malcolm X.

01:44:02.181 --> 01:44:03.921
I understand May 19th.

01:44:04.301 --> 01:44:07.681
So where are we now? Right.

01:44:08.681 --> 01:44:13.521
Are we better off than we were when Malcolm X was born?

01:44:15.003 --> 01:44:21.583
Know, right? You know, I think about it really kind of got me going on this

01:44:21.583 --> 01:44:28.503
thought process when the mayor of Newark, New Jersey, Roz Baraka, was arrested.

01:44:29.543 --> 01:44:37.723
And his dad was a contemporary of Malcolm X, as far as being a voice in the community.

01:44:38.143 --> 01:44:40.023
Now, Mary Baraka was a poet.

01:44:41.463 --> 01:44:47.683
And, you know, in the interview, I mentioned the fact that, you know,

01:44:47.743 --> 01:44:49.363
he was a political prisoner.

01:44:49.723 --> 01:44:58.243
They tried to arrest him for assault and resisting arrest, and they had to drop the assault charges.

01:44:59.263 --> 01:45:04.023
But they still put him in jail for resisting a police officer and all that stuff.

01:45:04.203 --> 01:45:09.083
And many people during that time basically said that they were just trying to

01:45:09.083 --> 01:45:12.403
shut him up and they, you know, he was a political prisoner and all that.

01:45:12.823 --> 01:45:19.703
And so of all the mayors that you wanted to go after, you went after the son of that guy.

01:45:22.183 --> 01:45:28.143
And basically falsely imprisoned him. Right. If you want to pursue that,

01:45:28.463 --> 01:45:33.363
that is the definition of being a political prisoner in the United States.

01:45:34.063 --> 01:45:41.103
You're trying to shut him up and send a message to everybody else not to challenge your authority.

01:45:41.543 --> 01:45:45.283
And the your is Mr. President, right?

01:45:46.343 --> 01:45:52.263
And Christy Noem and the rest of the cast of characters that are out there.

01:45:52.263 --> 01:45:55.243
I think, you know, it's really,

01:45:55.443 --> 01:46:05.483
really sad that we are at this point, and it just goes back to why I have such

01:46:05.483 --> 01:46:08.363
a high regard for teachers and professors,

01:46:09.683 --> 01:46:15.543
mentors, because this country needs to be educated.

01:46:15.543 --> 01:46:22.303
And I know some people might get offended by that, but just look at the people that you are electing.

01:46:22.723 --> 01:46:26.543
Look at the people that are serving in leadership positions.

01:46:27.383 --> 01:46:32.643
And then come back to me and say, make the argument that the American public

01:46:32.643 --> 01:46:36.123
is educated to the point that they need to be.

01:46:36.783 --> 01:46:42.103
I'm not saying that y'all are stupid. I'm saying that you need more education.

01:46:43.863 --> 01:46:49.543
Because why would a person who represents a state that doesn't border the Gulf of Mexico.

01:46:52.173 --> 01:46:56.373
Bill to change the name of the Gulf of Mexico. If you lived in Alabama,

01:46:56.373 --> 01:46:59.153
you lived in Mississippi, that would make sense.

01:46:59.473 --> 01:47:02.833
Louisiana, that would make sense. Texas, that would make sense.

01:47:03.253 --> 01:47:05.753
Florida, that would make sense. But Georgia?

01:47:06.673 --> 01:47:11.633
I mean, even if Buddy Carter introduced it, I can understand he got confused

01:47:11.633 --> 01:47:15.513
because he represents Savannah,

01:47:15.773 --> 01:47:19.113
or at least part of it, and that borders the Atlantic Ocean,

01:47:19.253 --> 01:47:22.173
so I understand if he got confused, at least that's close.

01:47:22.833 --> 01:47:27.233
But you represent Rome, Georgia, the furthest away.

01:47:28.073 --> 01:47:32.393
I mean, you're far away from the Chattahoochee River. You might be close to

01:47:32.393 --> 01:47:37.293
the Chattanooga River, but nonetheless, the Gulf is not even in your purview.

01:47:38.733 --> 01:47:45.173
But that's all about that currying favor and being a loyal court jester and all that stuff.

01:47:45.373 --> 01:47:51.033
You know, So an educated public would not elect people like that to office.

01:47:51.653 --> 01:47:55.633
Get up there and you bang your gavel 50 times because you just want to show

01:47:55.633 --> 01:47:56.693
that you're an authority.

01:47:56.933 --> 01:48:01.313
People respected you. You wouldn't have to bang your gavel once, let alone 50 times.

01:48:01.873 --> 01:48:07.733
But if you don't respect your colleagues, you wanted to fight your colleagues, you know.

01:48:08.353 --> 01:48:12.813
And it's just ironic that, you know, that young man that you harassed before

01:48:12.813 --> 01:48:14.593
you got elected. Now he's the

01:48:14.593 --> 01:48:19.393
vice chair of the party that you're going to have to face every election.

01:48:20.173 --> 01:48:24.833
You know that you're going to have a Democratic opponent every time you run

01:48:24.833 --> 01:48:30.813
from now on, because that man that you harass is now in leadership in his party.

01:48:32.405 --> 01:48:37.565
All that stuff comes back when you treat people badly, when you have no regard

01:48:37.565 --> 01:48:40.125
for others. There's consequences for that.

01:48:40.785 --> 01:48:47.065
Doesn't matter if you stay in a position that pays you $175,000 to $190,000 a year. Good for you.

01:48:47.505 --> 01:48:52.185
Doesn't matter that you get insider tips on the stock market so you can build

01:48:52.185 --> 01:48:54.305
your personal wealth. Good for you.

01:48:54.885 --> 01:49:01.825
Still going to pay for that, though. So, you know, I mean, you can watch all

01:49:01.825 --> 01:49:07.365
these movies that talk about the devil and his arrangements with folks,

01:49:07.645 --> 01:49:09.485
people making these Faustian agreements.

01:49:11.265 --> 01:49:16.245
They pay for that. You know, the Bible even says, what good is it for a man

01:49:16.245 --> 01:49:19.625
to have the world and lose his soul, right?

01:49:20.425 --> 01:49:24.385
There's a cost for being mean. There's a cost for being disrespectful.

01:49:24.385 --> 01:49:30.245
There's a cost for being deliberately ignorant, right?

01:49:32.325 --> 01:49:39.425
And, you know, if you can live your life with the rewards that mask that, so be it.

01:49:39.925 --> 01:49:44.285
I just remember there was an old saying that said that the softest pillow a

01:49:44.285 --> 01:49:46.425
man could sleep on was a clear conscience.

01:49:47.305 --> 01:49:49.165
And I have come to realize in

01:49:49.165 --> 01:49:52.705
2025, there's a lot of people that's pretty comfortable sleeping on rocks.

01:49:53.765 --> 01:49:55.105
Leaping on lumpy stuff.

01:49:57.457 --> 01:50:04.497
They can get their rest at night, you know, with not having a clear conscience.

01:50:06.097 --> 01:50:09.457
So that's why I make the argument that we got to do better.

01:50:10.217 --> 01:50:14.057
You know, it's like you've got a Department of Homeland Security,

01:50:14.237 --> 01:50:21.137
Christy Noem, who's cosplaying a cowgirl or a superhero, and her department's

01:50:21.137 --> 01:50:23.877
about to run out of money in July, two months.

01:50:24.417 --> 01:50:28.777
And the fiscal year doesn't start till October. And I don't know what was going

01:50:28.777 --> 01:50:35.577
on in South Dakota, you know, but you get a government, you know,

01:50:35.657 --> 01:50:37.017
and you've been a member of Congress.

01:50:37.897 --> 01:50:40.697
Kristi Noem was a member of Congress before she was the governor of South Dakota.

01:50:40.957 --> 01:50:43.677
So she knows how the appropriation process works.

01:50:44.297 --> 01:50:49.777
But now she's been given this title in Muscota Town.

01:50:50.597 --> 01:50:53.697
Pete Hegssef couldn't manage an $80,000 budget.

01:50:55.777 --> 01:51:01.197
Right? and you gave him the biggest budget in the government,

01:51:01.637 --> 01:51:02.697
the Department of Defense,

01:51:03.477 --> 01:51:09.617
and the people and the person putting him in these spots was elected after the

01:51:09.617 --> 01:51:13.677
people realized the first time he wasn't a good person in that job.

01:51:14.197 --> 01:51:17.617
And for whatever reason, I say it's racist.

01:51:17.997 --> 01:51:24.957
You can say it was eggs. You can say it was, I don't think she's tough enough. You can say whatever.

01:51:25.537 --> 01:51:29.297
I say it was racism. And if it wasn't racism, it was sexism.

01:51:29.597 --> 01:51:34.697
But either way, I didn't vote for her. And now the person who y'all didn't think

01:51:34.697 --> 01:51:39.557
was qualified to serve a second term right away, now this person gets another chance?

01:51:40.557 --> 01:51:44.717
Again, I make my argument that we have to do better.

01:51:45.297 --> 01:51:49.657
We have to pay more attention. We have to be diligent about this stuff.

01:51:49.977 --> 01:51:53.577
I don't, again, And I'll say it over and over again.

01:51:53.777 --> 01:51:58.397
I don't want y'all to be political junkies, but I do want you to be a little

01:51:58.397 --> 01:52:00.877
more stringent on who you give your trust to.

01:52:01.637 --> 01:52:04.797
And the only way you can do that is to pay attention.

01:52:05.857 --> 01:52:10.597
We're not going to win a global war by putting tariffs on every nation,

01:52:10.717 --> 01:52:15.057
including nations that only have penguins as a population. We're not going to make it that way.

01:52:15.717 --> 01:52:19.777
How we are going to make it is if our folks are educated. Right?

01:52:20.432 --> 01:52:23.192
Hear all these folks talking about the student loans and they got upset when

01:52:23.192 --> 01:52:28.332
Biden was trying to get people to get their loans forgiven.

01:52:28.992 --> 01:52:33.132
Nobody forgave my loans, blah, blah. Most of y'all that are complaining didn't

01:52:33.132 --> 01:52:36.092
even go to college. So you don't even know what student loans we're talking about.

01:52:36.612 --> 01:52:40.232
We're not talking about mortgages. We're not talking about car loans.

01:52:40.392 --> 01:52:41.432
We're talking about student loans.

01:52:42.212 --> 01:52:47.552
And those of y'all who went to college and paid them off, you say that now you

01:52:47.552 --> 01:52:50.592
You've got sour grapes because you paid it, and now you've got a president that

01:52:50.592 --> 01:52:56.512
finally is like going, hey, we might need to, well, we had a president that said, hey.

01:52:57.652 --> 01:53:00.352
We realize that this is a burden for folks.

01:53:01.192 --> 01:53:06.512
So we want to give people that are dealing with this now a second chance.

01:53:07.172 --> 01:53:10.672
And nobody gave me a break. Well, you should have asked the president during

01:53:10.672 --> 01:53:13.292
your time when you were paying the loans to give you the break.

01:53:14.092 --> 01:53:17.272
If enough of y'all had said something, it might have happened.

01:53:17.552 --> 01:53:23.512
The whole reason why those loans were created was for national security reasons.

01:53:23.992 --> 01:53:27.332
Dwight Eisenhower created the student loan program because he wanted to get

01:53:27.332 --> 01:53:35.152
more Americans educated in the sciences, especially because he was fighting

01:53:35.152 --> 01:53:38.392
an army in Europe, the Germans.

01:53:39.112 --> 01:53:45.712
Ooh, I mean, we built our NASA program off the scientists that we captured.

01:53:46.912 --> 01:53:52.732
We say liberated. That's the more politically correct term for that military

01:53:52.732 --> 01:53:54.472
action. But we captured these people.

01:53:55.292 --> 01:54:01.192
And they started our space program. That's how advanced Germany was compared

01:54:01.192 --> 01:54:04.652
to us, the most powerful, wealthiest nation in the world.

01:54:04.772 --> 01:54:07.712
And we weren't even the most powerful. Then we just proved it during World War

01:54:07.712 --> 01:54:09.172
II. But people had their doubts.

01:54:10.012 --> 01:54:14.952
Japan thought we were a sleeping giant, but they thought we were the giant in

01:54:14.952 --> 01:54:20.232
Jack and the Beanstalk as opposed to the giant that we turned out to be, right, militarily.

01:54:21.032 --> 01:54:25.632
But we started the loan program in the issue of national security.

01:54:25.792 --> 01:54:31.052
The reason why we have the interstate highway system was because of national security.

01:54:31.852 --> 01:54:36.112
Now, of course, people figured out a way, it didn't matter if it was north,

01:54:36.252 --> 01:54:41.672
south, east, or west, to destroy black communities in putting this highway system together.

01:54:42.312 --> 01:54:47.512
But nonetheless, the highway system was also designed with national security in mind.

01:54:48.532 --> 01:54:52.552
Because Eisenhower saw how those German troops were using the Autobahn to get

01:54:52.552 --> 01:54:53.752
from one spot to the other.

01:54:54.592 --> 01:54:59.292
Using that engineering technology they had to get those weapons where they needed

01:54:59.292 --> 01:55:01.052
to be to protect their homeland.

01:55:03.112 --> 01:55:10.432
Name of Germany, in their language, is Homeland. That's how serious they were about protecting it.

01:55:12.752 --> 01:55:20.032
So there's that, you know, but we, you know, and we just,

01:55:20.212 --> 01:55:23.852
we've got all these people that were cast of characters and all the drama that

01:55:23.852 --> 01:55:28.252
was going on with Trump while he was out of office.

01:55:28.252 --> 01:55:32.992
Some of them that was while he was in office the first time and even a couple

01:55:32.992 --> 01:55:37.412
of them before, right, that he's incorporated into this universe.

01:55:37.832 --> 01:55:44.052
And now most of the ones that are, yes, men and women are in the position, right?

01:55:44.652 --> 01:55:51.092
Don't think it's not a coincidence that Pam Bundy, our attorney general,

01:55:51.292 --> 01:55:54.592
and it needs to be reminded she's our attorney general, not his.

01:55:55.212 --> 01:55:59.532
Because when she took that oath of office, she swore to uphold the Constitution,

01:56:00.052 --> 01:56:02.552
not a loyalty oath to him.

01:56:03.872 --> 01:56:08.592
It's not a coincidence that a country that she used to lobby for now wants to

01:56:08.592 --> 01:56:13.512
give our president a $400 million gift, a jet plane, that they couldn't sell, by the way.

01:56:13.992 --> 01:56:17.052
They've been trying to sell it for five years. Nobody would buy it.

01:56:17.212 --> 01:56:21.412
So now they want to give it to our president.

01:56:22.432 --> 01:56:27.492
Please don't think it's a coincidence. Because then she's turning around,

01:56:27.572 --> 01:56:30.092
oh, yeah, it's constitutional. In what way?

01:56:30.552 --> 01:56:34.332
What part of the emoluments clause as a lawyer do you not understand?

01:56:35.392 --> 01:56:39.372
There is actually a process that if somebody wanted to give a gift,

01:56:40.052 --> 01:56:43.332
that the president say, yeah, I might want to keep that.

01:56:43.832 --> 01:56:47.712
Hey, Congress, is it all right if I keep this gift?

01:56:48.472 --> 01:56:53.532
And if Congress says no, they give it back. Congress says, yes, you get to keep it.

01:56:54.312 --> 01:56:59.472
The stories that former presidents that are still alive could tell about the

01:56:59.472 --> 01:57:04.292
gifts that were offered and they had to turn down because of this thing called

01:57:04.292 --> 01:57:07.032
the emoluments clause. Right.

01:57:08.092 --> 01:57:12.152
Some of this stuff is like, you know, it doesn't even make the news.

01:57:12.292 --> 01:57:15.512
They get the gift. They send it to Congress. Congress says, OK.

01:57:16.572 --> 01:57:22.812
They get to keep it. If not, they take it back. the most any president has ever

01:57:22.812 --> 01:57:25.432
gotten in gifts, I think was $2 million.

01:57:26.712 --> 01:57:31.972
And Donald Trump gets a $400 million gift and thinks that's okay.

01:57:32.452 --> 01:57:34.772
The attorney general thinks it's okay.

01:57:35.272 --> 01:57:37.172
And Congress is saying nothing.

01:57:38.032 --> 01:57:41.632
But now you got some congressmen saying that's a bad idea.

01:57:42.052 --> 01:57:47.012
But if they actually followed the process and said, well, you know,

01:57:47.252 --> 01:57:48.292
y'all need to vote on that.

01:57:48.812 --> 01:57:53.132
How many of these folks that are Republicans saying is a bad idea will actually vote against it?

01:57:56.411 --> 01:58:02.291
American leaders have integrity, they have intelligence, and they have courage.

01:58:03.191 --> 01:58:08.511
We don't have people like that. And if we do have people like that,

01:58:08.651 --> 01:58:10.431
a lot of them are confused.

01:58:10.631 --> 01:58:14.911
A lot of them don't feel like they have power. A lot of them,

01:58:15.431 --> 01:58:17.551
their best days have gone past them.

01:58:18.551 --> 01:58:23.231
And, you know, that's our fault because we just kept voting for these people.

01:58:23.891 --> 01:58:30.491
There's one congressman, I won't say his name, but I will say that he's gotten

01:58:30.491 --> 01:58:34.191
to the point in his life where he's more concerned about if his lips are chapped

01:58:34.191 --> 01:58:37.071
than helping his people.

01:58:37.931 --> 01:58:43.911
He's at that age. How do I look in public as opposed to how y'all really doing?

01:58:45.331 --> 01:58:48.311
And, you know, a lot of these people get by because, you know,

01:58:48.371 --> 01:58:53.451
in the budget process, they can stick in something that guarantees some money

01:58:53.451 --> 01:58:56.811
for their state. And it's like, oh, well, you know, he brought so many dollars.

01:58:57.691 --> 01:58:58.911
Yeah, that's well and good.

01:59:00.951 --> 01:59:06.491
But when I ran for the U.S. Senate in 2008, half of the places that I spoke

01:59:06.491 --> 01:59:07.931
at was named after my opponent.

01:59:09.411 --> 01:59:13.451
And that same year that I'm running against him, he voted against the Pell Grant

01:59:13.451 --> 01:59:17.131
extension, well, expansion, I guess, for money.

01:59:18.731 --> 01:59:24.491
And so you've got buildings on every college campus, but you're not going to

01:59:24.491 --> 01:59:29.391
vote for the money to make sure that these kids go to the college and you were

01:59:29.391 --> 01:59:32.931
the chair of appropriations? That's crazy, right?

01:59:33.891 --> 01:59:38.811
But oh, how I long for those kind of fights as compared to whether we should

01:59:38.811 --> 01:59:41.291
rename a body of water or not.

01:59:43.911 --> 01:59:50.411
Who can go to what bathroom? The first woman to attend a military institution

01:59:50.411 --> 01:59:55.631
in the United States that was designed to train soldiers to lift the South back

01:59:55.631 --> 02:00:02.631
up again is going to die on a hill about who goes to their bathroom.

02:00:03.591 --> 02:00:07.891
And here's a question I need to ask, and I hope somebody can answer it.

02:00:08.931 --> 02:00:14.331
Everybody's upset about trans women playing women's sports. Why are you not

02:00:14.331 --> 02:00:16.771
upset about trans men playing men's sports?

02:00:18.031 --> 02:00:21.931
Where is the outrage in that? If you are against trans people,

02:00:22.311 --> 02:00:27.471
then you shouldn't want trans men playing football or baseball or basketball

02:00:27.471 --> 02:00:29.531
or anything in the men's category.

02:00:30.211 --> 02:00:31.911
Why is that not a problem?

02:00:32.611 --> 02:00:37.651
Why are you worried about trans women playing women's sports and not worried

02:00:37.651 --> 02:00:40.391
about trans men playing men's sports?

02:00:41.091 --> 02:00:46.411
I'm just asking. You know, some people might try to say, well,

02:00:46.591 --> 02:00:47.951
you know, there's no difference.

02:00:50.151 --> 02:00:54.591
Trans, the trans man ain't going to be able to compete with what?

02:00:55.571 --> 02:01:02.071
If a trans man beats a dude in a, in a swimming contest, are y'all going to

02:01:02.071 --> 02:01:08.791
be as outraged as a trans woman placing fourth and the woman that's raising

02:01:08.791 --> 02:01:10.031
all the hell place fifth?

02:01:10.831 --> 02:01:13.771
Do realize that that that girl that's out here that

02:01:13.771 --> 02:01:16.811
started all this stuff and saying all is a

02:01:16.811 --> 02:01:20.051
shame she was no if that trans woman

02:01:20.051 --> 02:01:23.831
was not in that race that trans woman athlete was not in a race she wasn't gonna

02:01:23.831 --> 02:01:30.931
win anyway and it was it was non-trans women cisgender women who won the race

02:01:30.931 --> 02:01:39.411
three of them were better than the trans woman let's let's get that through our heads right?

02:01:39.411 --> 02:01:43.671
If she had won the race and the girl finished second by a split second,

02:01:44.551 --> 02:01:47.191
okay, I understand why she's got some beef, right?

02:01:47.771 --> 02:01:52.491
I don't agree with it, but that would be a more valid argument than you finishing fifth.

02:01:53.251 --> 02:02:00.371
You had no prayer. Your only claim to fame is that you bitched about it. That's it.

02:02:01.251 --> 02:02:05.651
That's what education is about. If you're educated, you know these things.

02:02:05.691 --> 02:02:11.591
If you're on point with stuff, you realize that a lot of this grievance and.

02:02:12.771 --> 02:02:19.711
Barking and Karenism and all this stuff, it's BS.

02:02:20.811 --> 02:02:26.911
It's not substantive at all. It is all performative. It is all about the show.

02:02:27.591 --> 02:02:36.051
It is not about anything that will make our lives in society better? Nothing.

02:02:38.249 --> 02:02:41.929
States when he's campaigning and saying, I'm going to lower prices from day one.

02:02:42.149 --> 02:02:48.469
And then he enacts a tariff on every country in the world, including countries

02:02:48.469 --> 02:02:52.889
that have no people, literally penguins.

02:02:53.689 --> 02:03:01.489
So that 10% tariff is a 10% increase on stuff that we want, that we buy because

02:03:01.489 --> 02:03:03.949
we're the largest consumer nation on the planet.

02:03:04.769 --> 02:03:10.729
That's a tax, just like a sales tax, just like an income tax. It's a tax.

02:03:11.609 --> 02:03:15.749
So not only when you go grocery shopping, do you pay the sales tax in your state

02:03:15.749 --> 02:03:20.509
if your state has a sales tax, but you're going to pay that tariff tax.

02:03:21.369 --> 02:03:26.229
If you're educated, you would know that and you would be upset and you would

02:03:26.229 --> 02:03:27.389
raise holy hell about it.

02:03:28.389 --> 02:03:35.049
Somebody brought up, Donald Trump keeps saying, well, we've lowered the price of eggs by 87%.

02:03:35.849 --> 02:03:40.809
I want you to go to the grocery store right now, go to the egg section,

02:03:41.109 --> 02:03:45.569
and tell me if you see a dozen eggs for 12, 15 cents.

02:03:46.509 --> 02:03:52.549
If you see that, then that's the only store in America that's actually reduced eggs by 87%.

02:03:53.349 --> 02:03:56.009
Other than that, he's lying.

02:03:56.989 --> 02:04:02.689
Now, you can go to different stores like I do and try to find the best bargain.

02:04:03.449 --> 02:04:06.949
I go to one store to get my eggs. I go to one store to get my,

02:04:06.949 --> 02:04:12.009
you know, juice and tea and all that stuff.

02:04:13.049 --> 02:04:19.289
One store to get meat. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm trying to stretch out my money.

02:04:21.289 --> 02:04:24.029
And that's a whole other conversation you didn't get into that bad.

02:04:24.029 --> 02:04:27.309
But I'm trying to stretch out my money. So I can eat.

02:04:28.069 --> 02:04:35.949
But I have yet to run into a store and see eggs for 12 to 15 cents a dozen. I haven't seen that.

02:04:36.349 --> 02:04:40.649
So when Donald Trump says that he's reduced price of eggs by 87%, he's lying.

02:04:41.469 --> 02:04:48.749
And if you're educated, you know that. But you want to get caught up in the entertainment.

02:04:49.949 --> 02:04:54.829
You want to get caught up in the look and the feel. instead of the substance.

02:04:55.829 --> 02:04:57.529
And we've got to do better than that.

02:05:00.409 --> 02:05:03.929
And, you know, for those of y'all who just,

02:05:05.922 --> 02:05:13.002
that, then just stay out of the rest of ours way because we want better for us.

02:05:13.142 --> 02:05:15.722
We want better for our children. We want better for our grandchildren.

02:05:16.302 --> 02:05:20.802
We want better for our great-grandchildren. Heck, we want better for generations

02:05:20.802 --> 02:05:28.022
that are not even on the planet yet because we do want a planet for them to exist in, right?

02:05:28.642 --> 02:05:30.442
That's what statesmanship is about.

02:05:31.262 --> 02:05:33.922
We don't have any statesmen or stateswomen.

02:05:34.902 --> 02:05:39.002
Everybody's worried about the next election. That's all people are talking about. Oh, 2026.

02:05:39.902 --> 02:05:44.362
Bro, we might not have a 2026. Not as far as an election goes.

02:05:45.142 --> 02:05:49.182
Not if you don't do the work to make sure that there's an election in 2026.

02:05:50.462 --> 02:05:53.802
We have got to get organized and educated.

02:05:54.882 --> 02:05:57.942
Actually, it should be the reverse order. Educated, then organized,

02:05:58.102 --> 02:06:02.182
right? Because once you learn what's really going on, you're ready to hit these streets.

02:06:02.962 --> 02:06:09.902
If you think these jobs, look, in the month of April, 106,000 African-American

02:06:09.902 --> 02:06:11.522
women were laid off their jobs.

02:06:13.902 --> 02:06:21.402
106,000. Black women should be tearing this country up, period, in the discussion.

02:06:21.882 --> 02:06:26.302
Even if you weren't one of those 106,000, you should be hitting these streets.

02:06:26.482 --> 02:06:29.382
And if not hitting the streets, organize them.

02:06:29.462 --> 02:06:33.862
Because I get it. I don't want, I get that y'all are playing that long game

02:06:33.862 --> 02:06:37.522
and you realize that if black people hit the streets, then martial law hit and

02:06:37.522 --> 02:06:38.462
all that stuff. I get that.

02:06:39.202 --> 02:06:42.542
I'm kind of in agreement with y'all. So apologize for saying hitting the streets.

02:06:42.702 --> 02:06:44.082
But you better be organized.

02:06:44.842 --> 02:06:49.022
And however that organization manifests itself, whether it's boycotts.

02:06:51.522 --> 02:06:59.822
You know, sit-ins, sit-outs, whatever, you know, electing people to school boards

02:06:59.822 --> 02:07:05.142
and city council seats and all that stuff, whatever you want to do. Right?

02:07:06.439 --> 02:07:09.959
Get to working, starting your

02:07:09.959 --> 02:07:14.279
own business so you can hire some of these sisters that's been laid off.

02:07:14.719 --> 02:07:19.479
Get to working and get to supporting each other, right?

02:07:20.559 --> 02:07:23.939
It's like people think like in this podcast world, oh, well,

02:07:24.039 --> 02:07:28.419
you know, I'm trying to get this audience and this podcast trying to get this audience.

02:07:28.679 --> 02:07:34.439
No. So if it was possible for every black person to listen to every black podcast,

02:07:34.639 --> 02:07:38.499
especially the political ones, we would be all happy.

02:07:38.959 --> 02:07:46.739
Right. But we know that not everybody can be Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan hasn't

02:07:46.739 --> 02:07:49.899
hit every white person. He's got like three million.

02:07:50.519 --> 02:07:52.859
There's more than three million white people in the United States.

02:07:52.859 --> 02:07:57.739
Right? He has 1% of the population, less than one.

02:07:58.679 --> 02:08:04.759
So there are millions of people out here that need to hear what's going on.

02:08:05.399 --> 02:08:10.239
And if most of us are saying the same thing, great, then that means you got

02:08:10.239 --> 02:08:13.059
both of us are paying attention to what's happening.

02:08:13.819 --> 02:08:18.019
Now, there may be some different strategies of how we go about making this happen,

02:08:18.339 --> 02:08:20.319
but you need to be paying attention.

02:08:20.979 --> 02:08:26.019
We need to be plugged in, y'all. We need to be networking. We need to be collaborating.

02:08:27.939 --> 02:08:33.239
We just, we need to be supporting each other in these endeavors because it's

02:08:33.239 --> 02:08:35.459
going to take all of us to fight.

02:08:36.039 --> 02:08:40.299
If he does declare martial law, we're going to have to be unified to fight.

02:08:40.959 --> 02:08:45.359
If he doesn't declare martial law, then we need to be unified and fighting the

02:08:45.359 --> 02:08:50.899
way that we can in the system, which is through voting, through exercising our

02:08:50.899 --> 02:08:53.359
constitutional rights, right?

02:08:54.459 --> 02:08:59.859
Now, Mayor Baraka was exercising his constitutional right under the 10th Amendment.

02:09:00.559 --> 02:09:04.979
You have a private business in his city. He wants to see if y'all are doing

02:09:04.979 --> 02:09:06.719
the right thing, period.

02:09:07.539 --> 02:09:11.939
Don't matter who you got a contract with, you are not the U.S.

02:09:12.039 --> 02:09:13.839
Government. You are a contractor.

02:09:14.239 --> 02:09:18.739
So you're a private business in his city. Get over it.

02:09:19.379 --> 02:09:24.359
You know? But we need to rally around people like him. We need to rally around

02:09:24.359 --> 02:09:27.319
the people, the elected officials that are trying to do something.

02:09:28.379 --> 02:09:31.819
Maybe that'll give them the courage to continue to do what they're doing.

02:09:32.079 --> 02:09:35.179
And maybe they'll get some ideas of how to do it more effectively.

02:09:35.999 --> 02:09:41.479
I don't know. Those black preachers out there that are trying to educate the

02:09:41.479 --> 02:09:47.639
masses while doing their godly doing and educating us about God and the afterlife,

02:09:48.479 --> 02:09:52.019
about walking the Christian walk or walking the Muslim walk or even walking

02:09:52.019 --> 02:09:55.979
the Jewish walk, because there are black Jews out there, right?

02:09:58.226 --> 02:10:03.646
Need support for trying to do the right thing. And just like the Bible said,

02:10:03.806 --> 02:10:06.126
you can separate the wheat from the chaff, right?

02:10:06.926 --> 02:10:11.526
You know who's out there doing the good thing and who's out there for the hustle. You should.

02:10:12.426 --> 02:10:20.626
So, you know, I'm just grateful for those of you all who pay attention and listen to me and my guests.

02:10:22.426 --> 02:10:26.706
Because I'm trying to get y'all educated. I want y'all to know that there's

02:10:26.706 --> 02:10:28.066
people out here doing the work.

02:10:28.846 --> 02:10:36.986
And we're not going to stop until things get better or until God calls us home, whichever comes first.

02:10:38.626 --> 02:10:43.566
Because this is a job that we got to pass the baton. This is a relay race.

02:10:44.366 --> 02:10:49.366
When our time is up, we got to hand the baton to somebody else and let them take it from there.

02:10:50.206 --> 02:10:52.566
So we've got to be committed in the long haul.

02:10:53.466 --> 02:10:58.546
But the individual responsibility we all have is that we have to be better educated.

02:10:59.446 --> 02:11:02.886
And that old slave holder, Thomas Jefferson, was right. The more educated we

02:11:02.886 --> 02:11:06.386
are, the better our leadership will be, period.

02:11:07.846 --> 02:11:12.826
All right, guys, I'm gonna end it there. Thank y'all for listening. Until next time.

02:11:13.840 --> 02:12:00.970
Music.