A Georgia Perspective Featuring Jessica Weinstein and Dr. Tammy Greer

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Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

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Tell someone else about the podcast. encourage others to listen to the podcast

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this moment a movement thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time

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i hope you enjoy this episode as well,

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the following program is hosted by the nbg podcast network.

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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.

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So first of all, let me wish everybody a happy new year because some of y'all

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won't hear this until the new year.

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As this episode is being dropped, we are on the eve of the eve of 2025.

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And yeah, which means that we'll be about three weeks away from the inauguration

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of the 47th President of the United States, who also happened to have been the

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45th President of the United States, Donald Trump.

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So 2025 is going to be an interesting year. So what I wanted to do was kick

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it off with a couple of guests, a couple of young ladies who have done a lot

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of work here in Georgia politically,

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one from the activist side and one from the academic side.

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And I hope that you really, really enjoy the conversation as much as I did having it with them.

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And hopefully we'll have them back on the podcast numerous times as we go through

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this journey, for lack of a better term, with the 47th presidential administration.

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You know, I hope everybody has been celebrating those of us in African-American

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community, Kwanzaa in a good way. I hope that people in the Jewish community

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have been celebrating Hanukkah in a good way.

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You know, one interesting things that I found out about Hanukkah is that one

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of the rituals or one of the traditions is that they read Psalms 30.

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And for those of you who are not familiar with Psalms 30, if you've been to

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a black funeral, you have heard this phrase, weeping may endure through the

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night, but joy cometh in the morning. That's from Psalms 30.

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And so in the Jewish community, they read that song and that should be a reminder

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to all of us here in America that no matter how dark it's going to be,

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no matter how troubling this may be.

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If we live for tomorrow, there will be joy on the other side.

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And so our goal is to

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follow the Apostle Paul's advice and to keep pressing to the high mark and to

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keep going till we can get to an America where we all feel as though that we're

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first class citizens and that we can live and live abundantly. Right.

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And I'm not trying to preach to y'all today, but I just I just want y'all to

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understand that we're going to get through this.

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And, you know, no matter what path it takes, we're going to get through it.

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And I firmly believe that. And I'm not talking about getting a reward in the afterlife.

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I'm talking about while I'm living, we're going to get through this.

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And I greatly appreciate you all listening to this podcast as we go on this

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journey together and as we continue to strive and fight to get to the other side.

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All right. So let's get this party going. And as always, we started off with a moment of news.

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Music.

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All right, as you have noticed, I am not Grace G.

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Grace came down with some kind of illness,

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and she wasn't able to do her normal news thing, so I want to wish her a speedy

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recovery and a prosperous new year in 2025.

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Hopefully a healthier one.

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So I'm going to miss you, Grace, but we're going to we're going to go ahead and knock this news out.

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And again, I'm going to show everybody why Grace is better doing this job. I am.

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Congress passed a spending bill to prevent a government shutdown,

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extending funding until March and providing disaster and farm aid,

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despite earlier disruptions caused by President-elect Trump and Elon Musk.

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President Biden commuted the sentences of 37 federal death row inmates to life imprisonment.

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A House Ethics Committee report revealed former Congressman Matt Gaetz paid

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women for drugs and sex, leading to his resignation and withdrawal from consideration as attorney general.

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Luigi Mangione pled not guilty to charges of murder and terrorism in the fatal

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shooting of health insurance executive Brian Thompson in Manhattan.

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President Biden secured his 235th judicial appointment, surpassing Trump's first

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term record and emphasizing diversity with a substantial number of women and

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people of color appointed.

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The president would later veto the Bipartisan Judges Act, which would have been

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the first significant expansion of the federal judiciary since 1990.

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A judge postponed the trial of Ryan Roth, accused of attempting to assassinate

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President-elect Trump to September 25th due to the complexity of the case.

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The Biden administration withdrew a proposed rule that would have stopped schools

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from banning transgender athletes, citing public opposition and ongoing lawsuits.

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A construction executive plans to plead guilty to conspiracy for making illegal

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contributions to New York City Mayor Eric Adams campaign.

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Federal judge ruled against parts of an Arkansas law that would have criminalized

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librarians and booksellers for providing harmful materials to minors.

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More than 5,000 Starbucks workers across 12 major U.S.

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Cities took part in a five-day work stoppage As the union and the company are

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in dispute over wages and working conditions And former U.S.

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President Jimmy Carter, the 39th President of the United States,

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has died at the age of 100 This has been a moment of news.

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Music.

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Now, it's time for my first guest, Jessica Weinstein.

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With over a decade of dedication to social work,

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Jessica's role, I should say,

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as a psychotherapist at ThriveWorks and as the founder of Georgia Women for

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Biden-Harris slash Warnock Ossoff slash Harris-Waltz slash democracy reflects

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her commitment to advocacy and mental health.

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Her expertise in reproductive rights and building coalitions is central to her

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work, where she strives to create meaningful change.

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As a psychotherapist, she applies these competencies daily, contributing to

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a culture that values diversity, empowerment, and progressive action.

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Jessica's mission as a therapist is to foster inclusive communities and advocating

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for those who need a voice.

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And I can tell you that she is probably one of the most active Democrats in the state of Georgia.

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And it is really, really an honor and a treat for me to be able to get her to come on the podcast.

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So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

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guest on this podcast, Jessica Weinstein.

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Music.

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All right. Jessica Weinstein, happy holidays to you. How are you doing?

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Happy holidays. I'm doing really well. How about you?

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I'm doing fine. I'm really, really honored to get you on the podcast because

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I've only been in Georgia since 2017.

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But in all of my algorithms, social media feeds and all that,

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when it comes to democratic politics in Georgia, you always pop up in some kind of way.

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You are probably one of the most connected activists in the state.

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And so I wanted to definitely pick your brain about what's going on or what

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did go on in Georgia and the path moving forward.

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But what I so what I want to do at the beginning is I always do an icebreaker

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and throw a quote at the guests.

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So this is your quote. We either make ourselves happy or miserable.

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The amount of work is the same. What does that quote mean to you?

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What that means to me is, as a therapist also who works in mental health,

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you put the same effort into being miserable because you have to actively think

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about what's making you miserable to be miserable as you do being happy.

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Because if you replace those unhappy thoughts with, well, here's what I have

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to be grateful for, you create an aura around you that's going to attract happy. So you choose.

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We attract what we put out.

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And that quote means pick which one you want to be, basically.

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Yeah. Well, that definitely can apply in politics as well.

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100%. You know, especially in the times that we're in.

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Yeah. But but I want to delve real quick before we get into the political stuff.

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You've been licensed counselor, social worker.

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Is that am I saying that right? Licensed certified.

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Yeah. Licensed clinical social worker, licensed clinical social worker and a

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psychotherapist for about 12 years. Right.

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Right. OK, so one of the one of my pet issues when I was in the legislature

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in Mississippi was mental health. And I was very fortunate to have a couple

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of guests recently talk about it in an instance.

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Talk about what the challenges are in Georgia as far as dealing with mental health.

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And just give me an analysis observation of what you deal with and what you're seeing.

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Yeah, so I'll tell you, the major access in Georgia is access to care,

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funding for care, that kind of thing.

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I started working in mental health by doing home visits in Appalachia for severely

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mentally ill adults in Georgia.

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And I did those through a state-funded program at the time that provided intensive

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care to patients who were severely mentally ill and in poverty.

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That program now doesn't exist. because it was cut with the funding cuts that

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our governor likes to pass.

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So what I would say is the struggle is access to care because what we know,

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and I'm currently in my doctorate studying the correlation between poverty and mental health,

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specifically in women, but we know that if your needs aren't met on a basic level,

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food, clean water,

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clean environment, place to live.

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Health care, your mental health is going to be worse.

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There is no other way to say it. And so the struggle in Georgia is we're one

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of the states that didn't expand Medicaid. We don't have access to basic mental

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health care that's affordable.

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And that's the major struggle here. If we took care of people's need,

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as we should with Medicaid expansion, more access to government benefits to health families,

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the mental health parity here wouldn't be what it is, I feel like,

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but we don't take care of either.

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Yeah. So what was the issue with mental health, the work that you do with your clients,

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did that lead you to become a Democrat or were you a Democrat prior to all that? No.

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So having grown up in rural Appalachia also, I grew up in a family that was

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very conservative, still are.

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I'm the only one in my family who isn't. And what happened was I,

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you know, my whole life I was told, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right?

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What I had to realize is not everybody has boots.

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How do you pull yourself up if you don't have boots? Your basic necessities.

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So I moved away to go to college.

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Well, moved away. I went to Georgia State, so downtown Atlanta.

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But I came in contact with a lot of people I learned a lot from and exposed

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myself to different ideas.

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And that's when I really made the shift into more democratic politics.

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I wasn't super political before that.

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I just didn't know a lot about it. Because funny aside, I grew up going to school

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where Tommy Benton taught history.

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Do you remember? Do you know much about Tommy Benton in Georgia?

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He was an elected House member here for 15 years who made the news because he said the KKK wasn't bad.

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They kept people in line. Oh, okay.

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He taught history in the schools I grew up in, going to.

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So that's what I grew up around. And so for me, it was getting out there,

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experiencing things for myself.

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Now, I grew up in poverty, but I didn't grow up in poverty like a lot of other

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people, right? I'm still privileged. in a lot of ways.

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And so starting my career and doing these home visits for people at Appalachia

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who literally barely had shoes and helping them, it opens your eyes.

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Like, what are we doing for people here? We're not doing enough.

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And, you know, I could help them at that level, the basic level where I was

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and going to their homes and checking in and getting them food and all of that.

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But if nothing changed on the macro level, then what was it for?

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Right? They're going to keep struggling. So that's where I started veering into

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politics, because I knew the only way to help that was to get involved.

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Yeah. You know, it's interesting. See, I grew up in Chicago.

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And what I tell people all the time is like, Chicago is so democratic.

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My precinct captain was my little league coach right so you know it was just

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kind of a way and so me you know wanting to be in politics i just learned what

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the democratic party was about.

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And you know i felt comfortable staying with

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it and and just worked my when i got to mississippi worked

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my way you know through the process but my

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my great aunt al her full name was alton or alton but we called her on al she

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was what we call a mugwump she was a black republican to the day she died and

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i'll never forget not too long after i got elected.

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She said she used to call me Duckman. I'll tell you the story another day.

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She said, Duckman, why are you a Democrat? She said, first of all,

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do you believe in God? I said, yes, ma'am.

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She said, you're a patriot, right? I said, yes, ma'am. Well, why are you a Democrat?

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And I had to explain to her that the Democratic Party is the oldest political

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party in the United States.

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And I understand you grew up in a time where the Democrats and you grew up in

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a part of the country where the Democrats weren't friendly to black folks.

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Right. But I grew up in a different generation and a different environment.

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And the Democratic Party in my lifetime, the Democratic Party was the one fighting for black folk.

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So it was just natural for me to stay with that.

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So I'm always fascinated how people get to where they are in their journey.

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But you've taken it to an incredible height. Like I said at the beginning of

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this interview, when whenever I see a picture, whether, you know,

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Senator Warnock, Senator Ossoff, Congresswoman Williams.

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President Biden, Michelle Obama, you're in the picture.

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You and you have done a lot of organizing. So what what made you take it to another level?

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It's one thing to support the Democratic Party and vote and all that.

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But you've taken it to another level as an activist.

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What what triggered you to become more of this Democratic activist that you've been?

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I think as someone who does the work I do.

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So I'm a full time therapist in addition to this. And so seeing people at that

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level, because the people I see are typically very mentally ill.

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A lot of them, you know, may struggle financially, not all, but you see it on

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a day-to-day level, and I don't know how anybody could see that and not feel

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like I've got to do something.

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I understand not everybody can, right?

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I'm, you know, I know I'm privileged in that way, but I think for me,

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it's I feel like I'm fighting for people that I'm working with and working for, and people in general.

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You know, I have two children and I take them to a lot of these events with

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me because, and not just events, we go volunteer, knock doors,

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all of this stuff, because I want them to see,

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what I didn't see growing up is that, you know, there are people who don't have what you have.

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And it's important that if you have something, you step up to give to other people.

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And so I think that, you know, that way of thinking and the fact that I'm constantly

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thinking my kids laugh at me sometimes, they'll ask me a basic question,

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mom, what's going on today?

00:20:26.574 --> 00:20:30.834
Or, and, you know, my first thought is, well, these people are being blocked

00:20:30.834 --> 00:20:32.854
from access to voting or to food.

00:20:33.654 --> 00:20:38.234
My mind is constantly thinking about people who struggle and what can I do.

00:20:38.494 --> 00:20:42.274
And I don't know if I was born that way or if it's just who I am,

00:20:42.314 --> 00:20:44.434
but that's what pushes me.

00:20:44.674 --> 00:20:51.134
And what I know, having been born and raised in Georgia, and what I always tell these people in D.C.

00:20:51.174 --> 00:20:57.554
Or other states that don't know Georgia well, we can't stop fighting here.

00:20:57.714 --> 00:21:03.254
You kind of have to fight at every level, because the minute you think you won

00:21:03.254 --> 00:21:06.614
something, the Republicans here are going to try to take it.

00:21:06.754 --> 00:21:11.454
For example, I ran Georgia Women for Biden on the first Biden campaign here

00:21:11.454 --> 00:21:16.174
in Georgia, and I worked with a coalition of other women from different states.

00:21:16.174 --> 00:21:19.494
I think we were the largest coalition on that campaign that year.

00:21:20.314 --> 00:21:23.874
But having worked with them and after we won, I kept hearing,

00:21:24.174 --> 00:21:27.374
oh, you're blue now, you're blue. And I kept saying, no, we're not.

00:21:27.634 --> 00:21:30.934
Look at the House and Senate here. Look at the governor.

00:21:31.214 --> 00:21:34.414
This is a fight. And what did they do right after Biden won?

00:21:34.734 --> 00:21:37.554
They passed the restrictive voting laws.

00:21:38.054 --> 00:21:43.834
So my thinking is the minute you let up, they'll pull something else.

00:21:44.234 --> 00:21:50.094
The heartbeat bill, tons of other bills that I think most people don't even know are passing.

00:21:50.354 --> 00:21:54.134
You know, if you're not down at the Capitol, if you're not talking with electeds,

00:21:54.214 --> 00:21:57.474
if you're not connecting with people, you don't know what's coming at you.

00:21:58.358 --> 00:22:04.418
Yeah. Yeah. And I always used to stress that it always had to be a two tier fight.

00:22:04.618 --> 00:22:09.118
It's one thing to have people elected in the building, but you still have to

00:22:09.118 --> 00:22:11.798
have grassroots organizing outside

00:22:11.798 --> 00:22:17.378
of the building to keep the pressure on because it means a lot more.

00:22:17.378 --> 00:22:21.838
And I used to tell my colleagues, it meant a lot more when I stood in the well

00:22:21.838 --> 00:22:26.678
and if people looked outside, there were like 10,000 people outside,

00:22:26.918 --> 00:22:31.958
you know, and the gallery was full on the inside as opposed to just me getting

00:22:31.958 --> 00:22:34.638
up there and being the loyal opposition about something.

00:22:34.898 --> 00:22:41.738
Now, fortunately for me, I was in the last majority Democratic House in the state of Mississippi.

00:22:41.738 --> 00:22:44.758
So thank you for your service yeah

00:22:44.758 --> 00:22:51.338
it was like my my my successor she she she caught it you know now she was a

00:22:51.338 --> 00:22:57.538
lot nicer to me so she than me so she navigated a little better but she she

00:22:57.538 --> 00:23:02.938
caught the the beginning of the republican wave there mississippi on the house side anyway.

00:23:04.278 --> 00:23:08.758
So let me ask you this because you you you're more than just somebody that shows

00:23:08.758 --> 00:23:14.518
up at events You're you're in the in the trenches and stuff and you you do a lot of organizing.

00:23:15.198 --> 00:23:21.538
Why do you think that Georgia outperformed all of the other swing states in the 2024 election?

00:23:22.378 --> 00:23:26.238
Because, you know, everybody's like, well, she lost this and she lost that.

00:23:26.358 --> 00:23:27.418
She lost all the swing states.

00:23:27.558 --> 00:23:33.818
But Georgia was very interesting to me because Biden only won by a little more

00:23:33.818 --> 00:23:36.118
than 11000, close to 12000 votes.

00:23:36.938 --> 00:23:41.238
Vice President Harris outperformed him by 70,000 votes.

00:23:42.058 --> 00:23:48.158
But then Donald Trump, who needed those 12,000 votes, he ended up getting 200,000 votes.

00:23:48.658 --> 00:23:54.718
So why do you think that the people in Georgia showed up more so than in the

00:23:54.718 --> 00:23:59.578
other swing states where you saw a decline in voter participation?

00:24:00.491 --> 00:24:04.611
So here's one thing I'll tell you. First of all, I think Trump overperformed

00:24:04.611 --> 00:24:09.351
here because last time he told everybody not to show up, and this time he told them to show up.

00:24:09.731 --> 00:24:16.351
So we're in Georgia. We know, unfortunately, he still has more voters here than us.

00:24:16.851 --> 00:24:24.171
But the reason we performed as well as we did is that they were using,

00:24:24.511 --> 00:24:28.471
the Democratic Party was using the playbook we used to win for Biden and Warnock

00:24:28.471 --> 00:24:30.031
when I worked on those campaigns.

00:24:30.191 --> 00:24:33.311
For example, you know that big rally with Obama in Clarkston?

00:24:34.331 --> 00:24:39.031
So when I worked for Senator Warnock, I was his director of women's engagement.

00:24:39.371 --> 00:24:43.791
And his political director at the time planned an event for him in Clarkston.

00:24:44.451 --> 00:24:49.011
And when we saw, so first of all, when we got there at that event for Senator

00:24:49.011 --> 00:24:52.791
Warnock in the first race, people were in tears in Clarkston.

00:24:52.971 --> 00:24:56.091
Nobody ever comes here. We feel unseen.

00:24:56.511 --> 00:25:01.991
We heard that on that campaign at a lot of stops, Augusta, Macon, Columbus.

00:25:02.691 --> 00:25:09.591
And when we saw this event with Barack Obama and Kamala in Clarkston,

00:25:09.731 --> 00:25:13.551
my friends from that campaign were texting each other, oh my God, they're going to do it.

00:25:14.471 --> 00:25:20.251
So that's what they did is they took that winning playbook of you literally

00:25:20.251 --> 00:25:22.991
have to touch every part of this state.

00:25:23.311 --> 00:25:26.591
Because in prior elections, I think, you know.

00:25:27.813 --> 00:25:32.053
It may have been taken for granted, like South Georgia, Middle Georgia. They hit Atlanta.

00:25:32.273 --> 00:25:37.393
We got Atlanta. We always do. You've got to hit the areas where people don't feel seen and heard.

00:25:38.073 --> 00:25:41.573
And what I saw in this election season was they did.

00:25:42.453 --> 00:25:46.733
They, you know, had events in South Georgia. They had campaign offices.

00:25:46.933 --> 00:25:50.073
They even had a campaign event in my hometown.

00:25:50.693 --> 00:25:56.793
I was a little scared to show up, but I went and like over 400 people showed up.

00:25:56.793 --> 00:26:03.013
I mean, it was a, so I think the more we build on that, the better.

00:26:03.013 --> 00:26:08.053
I think where we didn't over perform over Trump, I think, first of all,

00:26:08.173 --> 00:26:13.433
again, he told everybody to come out this time, you know, and I think the white

00:26:13.433 --> 00:26:17.853
conservative evangelical voters know that they're losing ground.

00:26:17.853 --> 00:26:22.373
And so they think they're fighting for, you know, their last breath of freedom there.

00:26:22.653 --> 00:26:24.633
So they're going to show up. They feel threatened.

00:26:25.853 --> 00:26:32.373
But I also think we did a good job of getting everybody out. We could.

00:26:32.813 --> 00:26:36.373
You still had the voter suppression at play in Georgia.

00:26:36.593 --> 00:26:40.313
You know, look at that county right now. I forget which one that's having a

00:26:40.313 --> 00:26:42.833
recount because the wrong ballots were sent out.

00:26:43.253 --> 00:26:48.453
They left off one of the candidates name. I mean, you know, there's all kinds

00:26:48.453 --> 00:26:53.413
of stuff I feel like going on behind the scenes or the fake bomb threats that

00:26:53.413 --> 00:26:57.433
were, you know, and primarily communities of color during that election.

00:26:57.573 --> 00:27:02.253
They were actively taking steps to try to block the Democratic win.

00:27:02.453 --> 00:27:08.313
So the fact that Kamala performed as well as she did and the Democratic Party did is huge.

00:27:09.053 --> 00:27:13.493
Yeah. And it just goes back to retail politics.

00:27:13.573 --> 00:27:17.873
Politics and I think that was that's been part of the discussion at the national

00:27:17.873 --> 00:27:19.233
level that they felt that.

00:27:20.414 --> 00:27:23.914
You know, the people that were advising the vice president was not,

00:27:24.154 --> 00:27:33.474
you know, they were more concerned about media and staying on message as opposed

00:27:33.474 --> 00:27:39.874
to really fanning out and doing what Senator Warnock.

00:27:39.874 --> 00:27:45.954
I mean, I'd say that he was, and I assume Ossoff had a pretty good operation,

00:27:45.954 --> 00:27:47.934
too, but Senator Warnock,

00:27:48.294 --> 00:27:53.514
especially when he ran against Social Walker, was very, very committed to making

00:27:53.514 --> 00:27:59.614
sure that every nook and cranny of the state of Georgia had his presence.

00:28:00.634 --> 00:28:06.634
And I just always believe that the best way to campaign is to go to the people.

00:28:06.634 --> 00:28:10.434
You know, you can only reach so many people with television.

00:28:10.434 --> 00:28:13.474
You can only reach so many people with a social media post.

00:28:13.654 --> 00:28:17.954
But when you get to their homes, that that that means a whole lot.

00:28:18.114 --> 00:28:24.414
And as somebody that's run statewide myself, I did the thing you were talking about Clarkson.

00:28:24.794 --> 00:28:29.134
I remember it was a town Stonewall, Mississippi, and they were saying the same thing.

00:28:29.314 --> 00:28:32.874
It was like nobody running for the Senate ever shows up.

00:28:33.554 --> 00:28:38.074
And so it was like a big deal when I came. I mean, the weekly papers showed up. I mean, everybody.

00:28:39.474 --> 00:28:45.954
And it wasn't a plan stop. It was just a lady that was running for judge, lived in Stonewall.

00:28:46.474 --> 00:28:50.814
And she heard me speak in another city in that judicial district.

00:28:50.894 --> 00:28:52.834
And she said, I need you to come to my town.

00:28:53.494 --> 00:28:56.634
And, you know, I came to her fundraiser.

00:28:57.814 --> 00:29:02.994
But it was like it was a big event. So it just it just means a whole lot.

00:29:03.154 --> 00:29:09.594
And I really wish that the national Democrats would listen to the people on

00:29:09.594 --> 00:29:12.794
the ground and trust them to do what needs to be done,

00:29:12.814 --> 00:29:19.574
because Georgia is clearly the best case example of how retail politics works. Yep.

00:29:20.094 --> 00:29:27.154
So having said all that, what do you think it will take to flip the state legislature

00:29:27.154 --> 00:29:31.754
and the statewide offices blue in the upcoming elections?

00:29:31.754 --> 00:29:41.074
Because it's a, you know, it's a sad picture to me when I see that every statewide

00:29:41.074 --> 00:29:46.214
elected official in the state of Georgia has the same demographic,

00:29:46.214 --> 00:29:49.354
middle-aged white man.

00:29:50.334 --> 00:29:54.734
Yep. It was like when you took that picture of all the seven statewides together, I'm like,

00:29:55.712 --> 00:29:58.372
What did you know, the old Sesame Street game? What doesn't belong here?

00:29:58.472 --> 00:30:02.392
Well, they all fit. You can't take one without the other.

00:30:02.832 --> 00:30:06.792
So what is it going to take to get Georgia to a point where,

00:30:06.792 --> 00:30:13.332
you know, those 22 counties where the Democrats have strength in the Atlanta metro area?

00:30:13.872 --> 00:30:16.652
How can that increase in the black belt?

00:30:16.772 --> 00:30:22.032
How that can increase in Columbus and Macon and Savannah and Milledgeville and

00:30:22.032 --> 00:30:26.952
all that? Because Georgia actually lost three counties that they had won in 2020.

00:30:28.532 --> 00:30:34.752
I think you need candidates on the ground talking to people about their daily

00:30:34.752 --> 00:30:37.172
struggles. And I think a lot of our candidates did.

00:30:38.432 --> 00:30:42.312
But, you know, the messaging is important. And kind of like you were talking

00:30:42.312 --> 00:30:47.832
about before was, you know, you can't reach everybody by email or Internet or whatever.

00:30:48.012 --> 00:30:50.712
Right. Because in the black belt or in rural parts of the county,

00:30:50.832 --> 00:30:52.052
they don't have reliable Internet.

00:30:52.252 --> 00:30:55.232
You have to go. There are different things that work.

00:30:55.972 --> 00:31:01.232
I think, honestly, if people were able to, and I know not everybody is,

00:31:01.352 --> 00:31:06.492
but to sit down at the state capitol in some of these hearings and listen to

00:31:06.492 --> 00:31:07.892
some of the stuff that is said,

00:31:08.092 --> 00:31:11.472
they would want to go vote that person out the minute they could.

00:31:12.272 --> 00:31:17.212
But I think it takes a political awareness or education about a lot of stuff

00:31:17.212 --> 00:31:22.452
on some level, because if you think about it in, you know, like rural parts

00:31:22.452 --> 00:31:24.832
of the state, if people are just struggling to survive,

00:31:25.192 --> 00:31:27.712
they're not going to have when you're struggling to survive,

00:31:27.752 --> 00:31:32.392
you can't think about who's running for office and why and who you need to go vote for.

00:31:32.392 --> 00:31:35.552
So that goes back to taking care of basic needs.

00:31:35.692 --> 00:31:41.112
But I think as far as candidates go, I think we need more funding for our rural

00:31:41.112 --> 00:31:42.252
candidates from the party.

00:31:42.652 --> 00:31:46.292
I think we need more investment in our rural candidates.

00:31:46.732 --> 00:31:52.452
And I think, you know, we need more reach to the local people.

00:31:52.452 --> 00:32:01.832
Do you think that we need to have candidates not from Atlanta or Savannah running

00:32:01.832 --> 00:32:04.152
for statewide office as opposed to,

00:32:04.392 --> 00:32:09.232
you know, because it's like you have a plethora of talent in the metro area

00:32:09.232 --> 00:32:12.812
and where you have Democratic pockets.

00:32:13.192 --> 00:32:17.992
That's where usually you get your folks from. But I'm trying to remember where

00:32:17.992 --> 00:32:24.152
the young lady was from that ran for ag commissioner. I don't think she's from the Atlanta area.

00:32:25.092 --> 00:32:31.972
She's not. Yeah. So do you think that if there was more of an effort to get

00:32:31.972 --> 00:32:34.772
people, I mean, that's a problem in every state, right?

00:32:34.852 --> 00:32:38.492
Because it's like in Mississippi, Jackson was the centerpiece for everything.

00:32:38.752 --> 00:32:41.452
And, you know, Illinois, it's Chicago, right?

00:32:41.712 --> 00:32:46.952
So, you know, every state deals with that. But the question is.

00:32:47.952 --> 00:32:53.732
Do you feel, well, I'll tell you a quick story. The guy who was the mayor of

00:32:53.732 --> 00:32:55.752
Hattiesburg, his name was Johnny Dupree.

00:32:56.312 --> 00:33:00.712
And Johnny was the first black man to be elected mayor of Hattiesburg.

00:33:01.032 --> 00:33:03.932
And he was running against a guy named Bill Luckett.

00:33:04.312 --> 00:33:08.352
And Bill was from Clarksdale. So Clarksdale's in the second congressional district,

00:33:08.612 --> 00:33:14.032
which I want any Democrat that's breathing wins the second congressional district, right?

00:33:14.992 --> 00:33:17.992
And and so bill was there and bill had money

00:33:17.992 --> 00:33:20.852
he's partners with morgan freeman and a club up there

00:33:20.852 --> 00:33:27.652
in clarksdale and all that stuff and you know people were like saying well y'all

00:33:27.652 --> 00:33:32.912
supporting johnny because he's black i said no johnny is from hattiesburg hattiesburg

00:33:32.912 --> 00:33:37.932
is in that third congruent that it's a district that we need to win he's an

00:33:37.932 --> 00:33:40.272
elected official he's in the largest city,

00:33:40.552 --> 00:33:44.612
the second largest city in that district. And he's the mayor.

00:33:45.332 --> 00:33:55.012
And, you know, I think if we get him in as opposed to Bill, then,

00:33:55.252 --> 00:34:00.272
you know, we'll be able to bring in votes from as part of the state that we normally don't get.

00:34:01.252 --> 00:34:06.052
And so, you know, it was a fight between Bill and Mayor Dupree,

00:34:06.152 --> 00:34:07.652
but Mayor Dupree won the nomination.

00:34:08.352 --> 00:34:13.252
Now, the way Mississippi politics works, if you get over 35%,

00:34:13.252 --> 00:34:14.712
that's a victory, right?

00:34:15.872 --> 00:34:22.032
But, you know, the thing was, we did see an increase in Democratic support in

00:34:22.032 --> 00:34:25.372
that southern part of the state that we needed.

00:34:25.532 --> 00:34:32.852
And so, you know, maybe in the short term, it didn't work, but in the long term, you're cultivating.

00:34:32.992 --> 00:34:35.132
And if you stay engaged, I'll see you next time.

00:34:35.646 --> 00:34:38.926
You can continue to do some things.

00:34:39.106 --> 00:34:45.546
So I don't know, do you think Georgia needs the same kind of approach or what?

00:34:45.786 --> 00:34:50.866
Yeah, I mean, I think, and not just maybe statewide office, also in like party

00:34:50.866 --> 00:34:56.486
leadership or, you know, included in leadership roles in the party.

00:34:56.686 --> 00:35:01.206
I will say the Democratic Party this year did a very good job of like the state

00:35:01.206 --> 00:35:05.146
committee meetings were in more rural areas. They weren't all in Atlanta.

00:35:05.646 --> 00:35:10.106
So I think they're trying, but I think definitely.

00:35:10.686 --> 00:35:14.086
Yeah, you're going to, it's exciting when you have somebody in a big spot,

00:35:14.346 --> 00:35:18.486
you know, like running for, like Senator Warnock, I know he lives in Atlanta,

00:35:18.746 --> 00:35:24.346
but he's from Savannah and we got huge turnout in Savannah for him.

00:35:24.346 --> 00:35:27.286
And so I think you're onto something there, right?

00:35:27.546 --> 00:35:34.226
It's, you know, like those areas that feel so often left out of politics,

00:35:34.546 --> 00:35:38.626
left out of who's working for me and like who has my best interest,

00:35:38.646 --> 00:35:43.746
because we know South Georgia is different than Atlanta. Their needs are different.

00:35:43.966 --> 00:35:49.106
Their infrastructure is different, you know, and it's a representation at a

00:35:49.106 --> 00:35:53.466
higher level for people who often feel unheard. So, absolutely.

00:35:53.966 --> 00:35:59.606
So, Georgia has more counties than any state other than Texas.

00:36:00.306 --> 00:36:03.886
Do you think that's part of the struggle for,

00:36:04.266 --> 00:36:08.286
is that there's so many counties that,

00:36:08.546 --> 00:36:14.086
you know, there's some additional costs that most states don't have to deal

00:36:14.086 --> 00:36:20.346
with as far as getting the vote out and putting together organizations to do what needs to be done?

00:36:21.243 --> 00:36:24.743
I don't know if it's the cost. I think didn't the Democratic Party,

00:36:24.903 --> 00:36:28.203
we had almost two million left in the fund after this election.

00:36:28.503 --> 00:36:33.603
I mean, you were no better than I would. I mean, you raised a good bit of it.

00:36:33.823 --> 00:36:38.463
So there was a lot of money left over. So I think we have the funds.

00:36:38.463 --> 00:36:39.563
It's the infrastructure.

00:36:39.783 --> 00:36:46.303
It's how do we include how are we inclusive of areas? And again,

00:36:46.443 --> 00:36:51.203
I think, you know, I'm not at the level high enough where I know all of that.

00:36:51.363 --> 00:36:54.723
They might have systems in place that I don't know about, but I'll tell you,

00:36:54.883 --> 00:36:58.683
unless it's changed significantly since Warnock ran the first time,

00:36:58.863 --> 00:37:03.463
there's not a lot of infrastructure in South Georgia. And so,

00:37:03.863 --> 00:37:06.283
you know, it's how do we connect all of that?

00:37:06.443 --> 00:37:10.623
Because it can't, the Democratic Party has to be everywhere.

00:37:10.623 --> 00:37:14.683
And we have to have representation everywhere if we want people to turn out.

00:37:15.063 --> 00:37:18.683
Yeah. Because people don't want to turn out for someone that they don't think

00:37:18.683 --> 00:37:22.063
knows anything about them or has their best interest in mind.

00:37:22.063 --> 00:37:26.623
We want someone who's going to represent us or our values. Yeah.

00:37:26.983 --> 00:37:33.443
Yeah, I totally agree with that. So I want to close out speaking about people

00:37:33.443 --> 00:37:36.043
that need to be or need to feel connected.

00:37:36.423 --> 00:37:40.543
You do a lot of work with this organization called Lost and Found Youth.

00:37:40.943 --> 00:37:47.243
Kind of talk about that organization and why you got involved with them and all that.

00:37:48.243 --> 00:37:53.663
So Lost and Found Youth is amazing. It's an organization that helps teens who

00:37:53.663 --> 00:37:57.223
are kicked out of their homes because of their LGBTQ status.

00:37:57.743 --> 00:38:02.523
And so they're essentially homeless. We provide housing, training,

00:38:03.003 --> 00:38:08.743
food and shelter, and a lot of essential services to try to get them on a good path.

00:38:08.943 --> 00:38:11.403
What attracted me to them is their were.

00:38:12.106 --> 00:38:15.006
Because there's not another organization like them in the state of Georgia.

00:38:15.006 --> 00:38:20.706
And we know that there are a lot of instances here where there's a lot of parents

00:38:20.706 --> 00:38:25.546
shutting kids out if they come out or, you know, there's a lot of discrimination.

00:38:25.846 --> 00:38:27.306
The other thing is we know that

00:38:27.306 --> 00:38:32.326
discrimination against people in the LGBTQ community overall is higher.

00:38:32.726 --> 00:38:37.926
And just look at the laws targeting transgender youth in the state of Georgia

00:38:37.926 --> 00:38:39.666
or in the South in general.

00:38:39.686 --> 00:38:45.506
I can't remember how many, I think 50-something bills tried to be passed just

00:38:45.506 --> 00:38:47.866
in the South alone, targeting them.

00:38:48.146 --> 00:38:54.126
So my desire is to help, you know, who needs to help the most right now?

00:38:54.246 --> 00:38:56.986
And that's a community that is consistently targeted in Georgia.

00:38:57.146 --> 00:39:00.546
And this organization does a lot of really good work.

00:39:00.926 --> 00:39:05.566
There was an instance a few years ago where a kid was kicked out of his house

00:39:05.566 --> 00:39:12.746
on Christmas Eve because his parents found a letter that he was writing to his

00:39:12.746 --> 00:39:16.086
partner and they didn't know he was gay and kicked him out.

00:39:16.546 --> 00:39:22.306
And the organization, the executive director, Milena Alves, she actually housed

00:39:22.306 --> 00:39:26.226
them that night because the hotels were crazy.

00:39:26.546 --> 00:39:29.766
She spent all night finding them a place to go.

00:39:30.066 --> 00:39:33.946
And so they do that important work where you're not going to be left out in

00:39:33.946 --> 00:39:37.066
the cold. We're going to find something for you. We're going to help them.

00:39:37.326 --> 00:39:41.586
We employ a lot of the kids at the service center, you know,

00:39:41.646 --> 00:39:47.966
if they want, if they're looking for employment and provide basic necessities and training, you know.

00:39:48.126 --> 00:39:52.446
So, it's putting them in a spot where they're going to get more support and

00:39:52.446 --> 00:39:56.026
be able to contribute, you know, to their own recovery in a way.

00:39:56.426 --> 00:39:59.546
So how can people get involved with that?

00:39:59.746 --> 00:40:05.746
And how can people get in touch with you if they want to talk to you about Georgia

00:40:05.746 --> 00:40:10.626
politics or get involved with being an activist, all that kind of stuff?

00:40:10.986 --> 00:40:19.326
Yeah. So for Lost and Found Youth, the website is lnfy.org, like lostandfoundyouth.org.

00:40:19.526 --> 00:40:24.606
You can donate. They have a thrift store there, and they also take items for

00:40:24.606 --> 00:40:25.686
the kids who are in the shelter.

00:40:25.926 --> 00:40:29.926
So you can donate items, clothing. Right now we need winter clothes and those

00:40:29.926 --> 00:40:33.246
types of things. They can donate online if they can't make it down there.

00:40:33.646 --> 00:40:38.826
And we do various events around the year. So I always share those on my channels.

00:40:39.006 --> 00:40:42.826
So to get in touch with me, I'm on Facebook, Jessica Weinstein.

00:40:43.346 --> 00:40:47.946
I'm on Instagram. I will send you my handle. It's an old one,

00:40:48.446 --> 00:40:50.626
dedicated mama for my two kids.

00:40:51.086 --> 00:40:55.246
But they can get in touch with me there and on LinkedIn, Jessica Weinstein.

00:40:55.566 --> 00:40:57.546
Well, Jessica Weinstein,

00:40:58.828 --> 00:41:04.088
The Democratic Party in Georgia is blessed to have you on their side.

00:41:04.088 --> 00:41:09.908
And so are these these young kids that you provide service through lost and found youth.

00:41:11.128 --> 00:41:15.588
Even though this is an audio only podcast, I believe the audience hears your

00:41:15.588 --> 00:41:18.748
passion about things and why

00:41:18.748 --> 00:41:23.468
you are so committed to fighting for what you believe is the right cause.

00:41:24.028 --> 00:41:29.988
And I'm really honored not only to formally meet you, but to have you to come

00:41:29.988 --> 00:41:31.608
on the podcast. Thank you so much.

00:41:32.248 --> 00:41:36.088
No, absolutely. I'm honored to be here and honored to meet you as well.

00:41:36.188 --> 00:41:40.548
You're doing a lot of really good work and getting a lot of important information out there.

00:41:40.668 --> 00:41:44.708
And you were a part of history, you know, in your elected seat.

00:41:44.988 --> 00:41:51.288
And, you know, you're standing up in a lot of areas that it's hard to stand up in. Yeah, yeah.

00:41:51.908 --> 00:41:55.048
So thank you. Well, I appreciate that. That's very kind of you.

00:41:55.968 --> 00:42:03.068
So, you know, as we as we approach, I do want to ask you this as we approach

00:42:03.068 --> 00:42:06.968
this end of the holiday season and we're getting ready to.

00:42:08.802 --> 00:42:15.062
Get into this new Trump administration, what would you tell somebody that is

00:42:15.062 --> 00:42:20.362
like feeling some kind of way about that, whether it's a client or just a friend?

00:42:20.882 --> 00:42:28.062
What word of advice or word of encouragement would you give them in this time?

00:42:28.742 --> 00:42:31.642
Well, I'll tell you, I have two different answers to that.

00:42:31.782 --> 00:42:37.302
So I do have a lot of clients who are terrified, especially my transgender and

00:42:37.302 --> 00:42:39.522
LGBTQ community clients.

00:42:39.962 --> 00:42:43.362
And what I tell them is, it's going to be okay.

00:42:43.702 --> 00:42:48.202
You're going to be okay. You have people on the ground who are ready to fight

00:42:48.202 --> 00:42:53.582
back and stand up and be there to lift you up if you can't be there.

00:42:53.782 --> 00:42:57.022
There are enough people fighting for you that we're going to be okay.

00:42:57.262 --> 00:43:03.542
What I would tell my friends is, we've got work to do. and we've got to stay

00:43:03.542 --> 00:43:09.262
on it and we've got to stand up and show up and speak up for people who can't

00:43:09.262 --> 00:43:11.842
because we know that's who he's targeting.

00:43:12.882 --> 00:43:17.402
And so like you pointed out with, you know, if 10,000 people show up to a state

00:43:17.402 --> 00:43:19.162
house, you're going to listen, right?

00:43:19.822 --> 00:43:26.622
We have to stay alert and aware and educate people, not just ourselves, but spread the message.

00:43:26.742 --> 00:43:28.902
Here's what's going on. Here's what we need you to do.

00:43:29.662 --> 00:43:34.242
And that's why I do run Georgia Women for Democracy, which you can find on Facebook also.

00:43:34.562 --> 00:43:39.402
It's a group of about 16,000 women where I constantly post action items.

00:43:39.482 --> 00:43:42.322
Here's what's going on, because that's what we have to do.

00:43:42.662 --> 00:43:46.802
We can't, you know, put our heads in the sand like I know a lot of us want to

00:43:46.802 --> 00:43:49.102
do right now, turn off the news and shut it all down.

00:43:49.642 --> 00:43:54.082
We have to stay active because that's what he wants and that's what the Republican wants.

00:43:54.242 --> 00:43:57.642
They want you to feel defeated so that they can push you down even further.

00:43:58.342 --> 00:44:01.922
Well, we'll let that word of encouragement end in the podcast.

00:44:02.242 --> 00:44:03.662
Again, thank you for coming on.

00:44:04.382 --> 00:44:06.162
Thank you for having me. All right.

00:44:06.160 --> 00:44:24.400
Music.

00:44:26.541 --> 00:44:34.081
All right. And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Dr. Tammy Greer.

00:44:34.501 --> 00:44:40.081
Dr. Greer currently serves as a clinical assistant professor and director of

00:44:40.081 --> 00:44:45.441
the BIS social entrepreneurship in the public management and policy department

00:44:45.441 --> 00:44:49.401
in the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies at Georgia State University.

00:44:49.401 --> 00:44:54.881
She has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and a master's of security management,

00:44:54.881 --> 00:44:59.401
both from the University of Houston downtown, as well as a Ph.D.

00:44:59.481 --> 00:45:03.681
In political science from Clark Atlanta University with focus areas in American

00:45:03.681 --> 00:45:07.961
government, including state and local government, urban politics,

00:45:08.261 --> 00:45:10.541
comparative politics and international politics.

00:45:10.941 --> 00:45:14.481
She has served in numerous capacities in the private sector,

00:45:14.641 --> 00:45:19.281
as well as the public sector, including as an educator. Dr.

00:45:19.381 --> 00:45:24.201
Greer's interests include community and civic involvement, focusing on how policy

00:45:24.201 --> 00:45:29.961
and the lack of equitable public policy impact historically underserved communities.

00:45:30.341 --> 00:45:36.261
She advocates for consistent civil engagement and voting, especially in nonpresidential

00:45:36.261 --> 00:45:41.261
elections, which means voting for all positions on the ballot. Dr.

00:45:41.381 --> 00:45:45.161
Greer serves as a board member on several organizations, including Georgia Women

00:45:45.161 --> 00:45:50.541
Connect, Media Policy Center, and the community chair working to create community

00:45:50.541 --> 00:45:54.301
garden in an urban food desert community. Dr.

00:45:54.381 --> 00:45:58.741
Greer has been interviewed in numerous state, nationwide and international media

00:45:58.741 --> 00:46:01.141
outlets, including CNBC.

00:46:01.941 --> 00:46:06.761
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, NPR, Washington Post, WGN,

00:46:07.521 --> 00:46:13.241
Christian Science Monitor and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution regarding politics and policy.

00:46:13.241 --> 00:46:17.801
She is the author of the forthcoming book, Checks Without Change,

00:46:18.341 --> 00:46:20.781
Moving from Protest to Policy.

00:46:21.201 --> 00:46:25.881
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:46:25.881 --> 00:46:29.281
on this podcast, Dr. Tammy Kahn.

00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:39.120
Music.

00:46:41.060 --> 00:46:46.200
All right. Dr. Tammy Greer, happy holidays to you. How are you doing?

00:46:46.940 --> 00:46:51.460
I'm doing well. Happy holidays to you as well. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

00:46:52.680 --> 00:46:56.680
So you're a public policy teacher at Georgia State University.

00:46:58.700 --> 00:47:04.060
But you're a little more than that. You're kind of the go-to person in the Atlanta

00:47:04.060 --> 00:47:08.320
metro area as far as media goes. They seem to like you a lot,

00:47:08.680 --> 00:47:13.560
especially WABE, I think that is, public radio.

00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:19.020
They hit you up a lot. So I said, well, let me pick her brain a little bit and

00:47:19.020 --> 00:47:23.440
let her get on my podcast and share some of her wisdom with an audience,

00:47:24.100 --> 00:47:27.120
you know, my audience, and go from there.

00:47:27.980 --> 00:47:32.420
What I'd like to do is start off the conversation with a quote.

00:47:32.860 --> 00:47:39.680
So this is your quote. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are conservative

00:47:39.680 --> 00:47:44.740
in their viewpoint because there's an understanding that the United States electorate

00:47:44.740 --> 00:47:49.460
in and of itself really is adverse to major change.

00:47:49.700 --> 00:47:57.160
Talk to me about that quote. Well, it's simply that the electorate overall is,

00:47:57.420 --> 00:48:02.040
and just people overall, right, part of the psychology that comes along with

00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:04.100
politics is that people,

00:48:04.600 --> 00:48:08.900
generally speaking, in their own personal lives, do not move quickly.

00:48:09.180 --> 00:48:14.440
And when it comes to just collective action, collective action doesn't move

00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:19.220
quickly either because change is different, change is new, change is uncertain.

00:48:19.220 --> 00:48:28.900
So for the vast majority of folks, making big leaps and bounds is unsafe emotionally for folks.

00:48:29.220 --> 00:48:36.340
So moving progressively, whatever your definition of progressively means,

00:48:36.600 --> 00:48:39.340
generally for the electorate means to move slowly.

00:48:39.340 --> 00:48:44.720
So we don't make huge leaps and bounds and changes with any policy,

00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:48.280
regardless of what folks will say.

00:48:49.088 --> 00:48:53.788
Sometimes policy may move faster than it did in other spaces,

00:48:53.788 --> 00:48:56.608
yet and still, progress is slow.

00:48:56.808 --> 00:49:01.848
And progress is slow because you have to consider the 326 million people that

00:49:01.848 --> 00:49:05.428
live in the United States and the billions of people around the world that are

00:49:05.428 --> 00:49:07.908
impacted by the policies within the United States.

00:49:07.908 --> 00:49:11.088
So for us to move quickly, whatever,

00:49:11.348 --> 00:49:15.768
again, quickly means to some folks, it's just not going to take place because

00:49:15.768 --> 00:49:22.968
you have so many other individuals to consider, not including businesses and

00:49:22.968 --> 00:49:25.328
other aspects of our society.

00:49:25.328 --> 00:49:31.508
It just moves slowly. So when one listens to politics, one would consider,

00:49:31.828 --> 00:49:36.528
for example, the Democratic Party to conservatives or to Republicans,

00:49:36.748 --> 00:49:38.428
Democratic Party moves fast.

00:49:38.868 --> 00:49:43.748
And then to others, the Republican Party or conservatives move very slowly.

00:49:43.748 --> 00:49:49.188
But when you really look at the grand scheme of things and we have compromise

00:49:49.188 --> 00:49:54.688
and we work together and we understand the different facets of people within

00:49:54.688 --> 00:49:56.208
the United States and around the world,

00:49:56.448 --> 00:50:03.488
we move at a pace that is consistent with getting folks comfortable with change.

00:50:03.488 --> 00:50:06.108
So everyone is averse to change no matter what.

00:50:06.248 --> 00:50:08.808
No matter what they say, they are averse to change.

00:50:09.228 --> 00:50:16.448
Yet how we move our politics, especially when one considers inclusion or to

00:50:16.448 --> 00:50:22.908
reverse or to correct some policies that have discriminatory underpinnings to them,

00:50:23.108 --> 00:50:25.488
in order to make that change,

00:50:25.788 --> 00:50:28.148
you have to get people comfortable with the change.

00:50:28.148 --> 00:50:32.848
And in particular, if I can be specific, the people that you get comfortable

00:50:32.848 --> 00:50:34.388
with change are the people that vote.

00:50:34.728 --> 00:50:39.048
The people that vote are the ones that say yes or no to policy.

00:50:39.108 --> 00:50:45.108
So if you get people who consistently participate in the political process comfortable

00:50:45.108 --> 00:50:46.788
with the change, then you can have that.

00:50:47.508 --> 00:50:52.808
Yeah, that's pretty profound. I had a social science teacher in high school

00:50:52.808 --> 00:50:58.848
that said, when you're young, y'all, y'all are liberal.

00:50:59.148 --> 00:51:02.208
He said, when y'all get older, y'all going to get conservative.

00:51:04.688 --> 00:51:11.868
So, so, so you agree that it's part of the resistance to change is generational as well.

00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:17.920
It's generational. It is your understanding of the world around you.

00:51:18.120 --> 00:51:20.700
When you're younger, you know, it's all about you.

00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:24.480
You're the center of everyone's universe in your mind.

00:51:24.580 --> 00:51:31.740
So the pace to which you want to move, you don't consider the implications on others.

00:51:32.160 --> 00:51:37.500
Yet when the older we grow, the more experiences we have,

00:51:37.660 --> 00:51:43.740
the more people we meet, the understanding that we are a pebble on this rock,

00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:50.620
then we have an understanding that my actions have consequences.

00:51:51.060 --> 00:51:57.520
And when I understand my actions have consequences, sometimes folks tend to

00:51:57.520 --> 00:52:02.720
rethink or slow down what they're interested in doing.

00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:07.860
And part of that slow down, if we can also be specific with that, is explaining.

00:52:08.540 --> 00:52:11.880
You know, when we're younger, we don't really explain what we're doing.

00:52:12.100 --> 00:52:15.480
We're just like, I'm going to go over here to do the thing so I can get the thing.

00:52:15.680 --> 00:52:23.620
But then when we grow older, it becomes an explanation of the thought process behind it,

00:52:23.900 --> 00:52:30.360
the understanding of the impact behind the behavior, and then what,

00:52:30.460 --> 00:52:35.220
you know, what we hope to gain, yet what we probably could not gain.

00:52:35.220 --> 00:52:40.000
And then what adverse actions may happen because of what we do.

00:52:40.220 --> 00:52:48.020
So that slowdown is because there's more thought to the decision rather than

00:52:48.020 --> 00:52:49.460
just making the decision.

00:52:50.260 --> 00:52:57.420
See you. So based on that definition, it sounds like that the current makeup

00:52:57.420 --> 00:53:01.960
of the Republican Party has more of a youthful mindset.

00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:11.320
And the Democratic Party has more of mature mindset, because when you say all

00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:16.840
I think about is my universe and my center, I mean, we've got a congresswoman here in Georgia.

00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:21.500
We've got several of them that it's like it's all about their universe,

00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:27.580
whereas you have younger people in the Democratic Party, a lot of them,

00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:29.500
especially in the House of Representatives,

00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:35.880
that seem to be more comfortable in explaining why they want to do,

00:53:36.220 --> 00:53:40.860
even if it's a radical change, they seem more comfortable explaining that.

00:53:42.120 --> 00:53:45.540
Am I wrong in interpreting what you said?

00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:53.860
So the conservatives, they've been on this mission for 65 plus years.

00:53:54.180 --> 00:54:02.300
It's just become, quote unquote, mainstream in the last 10 years or so.

00:54:03.220 --> 00:54:06.140
So they've been having these thoughtful conversations.

00:54:06.823 --> 00:54:11.163
Considerate conversations. And when I say thoughtful and considerate,

00:54:11.303 --> 00:54:21.823
I mean that they have been thinking through all of these aspects for the 55 years in quiet or not,

00:54:21.983 --> 00:54:27.503
if not in quiet, in the space where they are comfortable making these,

00:54:27.683 --> 00:54:29.363
having these conversations.

00:54:30.103 --> 00:54:35.243
Testing these legal theories, testing the waters when it comes to language.

00:54:35.243 --> 00:54:41.403
Testing the waters when it comes to policy, particularly on the state and local level.

00:54:41.843 --> 00:54:47.803
They've been doing their thing. It's just the rest, the non-conservatives have

00:54:47.803 --> 00:54:49.443
not been paying attention to them.

00:54:49.783 --> 00:54:57.023
And so it seems as though they are just coming out saying these things and creating

00:54:57.023 --> 00:54:59.623
these policies out of the blue. They have not.

00:54:59.843 --> 00:55:02.963
They have been very thoughtful about these policies.

00:55:03.263 --> 00:55:08.843
The rest of the world just has not been paying attention. But the ones who know,

00:55:09.083 --> 00:55:12.743
they know for the past 65 years.

00:55:12.923 --> 00:55:16.103
The ones who don't know are very shocked when

00:55:16.103 --> 00:55:21.603
they listen to some of the conservative talking points and seeing some of these

00:55:21.603 --> 00:55:26.963
policies that have overturned some of these civil rights and civil liberties

00:55:26.963 --> 00:55:34.883
that have been gained by the world's majority in the past 65 years.

00:55:35.143 --> 00:55:38.003
But this is not new.

00:55:38.343 --> 00:55:40.303
This is just out loud now.

00:55:41.443 --> 00:55:46.823
Yeah, I feel that. And I actually agree. I was listening more so about,

00:55:47.003 --> 00:55:50.623
I guess, individuals as opposed to the collective of the party.

00:55:50.823 --> 00:55:55.163
But I agree with the sense that They've been planning it because I would say

00:55:55.163 --> 00:56:00.523
it's been longer than that because, you know, we can just we can start at the

00:56:00.523 --> 00:56:02.203
New Deal and go from there.

00:56:03.286 --> 00:56:07.906
You know, I mean, as a black person, we can go all the way back to Reconstruction.

00:56:08.546 --> 00:56:12.786
It's just that maybe the parties have changed where people feel comfortable

00:56:12.786 --> 00:56:17.246
in their platform, but not the thought process and the strategy, as you put it.

00:56:19.086 --> 00:56:24.066
So if I understand if I go to Georgia State University and I wanted to get a

00:56:24.066 --> 00:56:26.766
degree in social entrepreneurship, I got to come through you.

00:56:27.646 --> 00:56:34.586
So what is social entrepreneurship? Social entrepreneurship is for folks who

00:56:34.586 --> 00:56:38.426
are interested in making money while doing the social good.

00:56:38.886 --> 00:56:46.286
So these people are in the community right now who are making strides,

00:56:46.446 --> 00:56:51.126
making social impacts, and they're making a check. They are a for-profit organization.

00:56:51.726 --> 00:56:58.446
So a lot of times what we tend to do is think of traditional business and then we think of nonprofits.

00:56:59.166 --> 00:57:02.206
And what we are is those folks in the middle.

00:57:02.466 --> 00:57:06.466
We're that sweet spot in the middle where we are making money and making an

00:57:06.466 --> 00:57:07.706
impact on the community.

00:57:08.686 --> 00:57:13.486
So, you know, it's one of those things where it's possible to do two things at the same time.

00:57:13.486 --> 00:57:19.606
And that's what we're encouraging folks to do is to do you in,

00:57:19.826 --> 00:57:24.706
you know, depending on where you are, what stage in life, the young folks,

00:57:24.866 --> 00:57:26.386
they understand this concept.

00:57:26.386 --> 00:57:30.086
And so they tend to want to gravitate to social entrepreneurship.

00:57:30.606 --> 00:57:35.866
And then you have folks who may have made their money and then they come back

00:57:35.866 --> 00:57:38.346
and they say, well, you know, I made a whole bunch of money.

00:57:38.526 --> 00:57:40.846
Do I feel good at nighttime when I want to go to sleep?

00:57:41.146 --> 00:57:45.886
And sometimes that answer is no. And so then they make a shift and that shift

00:57:45.886 --> 00:57:51.946
means that they want to use all of their skills and abilities that they learned

00:57:51.946 --> 00:57:58.526
in in the business world and corporate world and and then bring that to making a social impact.

00:57:58.606 --> 00:58:02.766
And that's what we're here to do is to encourage people.

00:58:03.547 --> 00:58:07.867
That there's another pathway to be able to do both that you don't have to choose

00:58:07.867 --> 00:58:10.307
anymore. We can live in a both end.

00:58:11.207 --> 00:58:15.447
So, and I, and I'm a strong believer in walking and chewing gum at the same

00:58:15.447 --> 00:58:20.727
time, but I had a political godfather that told me in politics, you have two choices.

00:58:21.047 --> 00:58:23.987
Either you can be rich or you can be honest. You can't be both.

00:58:24.347 --> 00:58:28.467
Does social entrepreneurship kind of fly in the face of that thought process?

00:58:28.887 --> 00:58:35.867
It does. And that, with all due respect to that individual, that's that 1980s

00:58:35.867 --> 00:58:38.487
greed is good kind of mentality, right?

00:58:38.587 --> 00:58:41.507
That's that old traditional thought. You can do both.

00:58:42.607 --> 00:58:47.867
The thing is, is that with social entrepreneurship, you know,

00:58:47.967 --> 00:58:52.687
folks want to, whether you are the business owner or the consumer,

00:58:52.967 --> 00:58:56.087
you want to be able to say, I did a good.

00:58:56.827 --> 00:59:02.567
Sometimes people want to do a good without the acknowledgement of it, just because.

00:59:02.887 --> 00:59:10.367
And there are some people that want to do a good without sometimes making an

00:59:10.367 --> 00:59:15.327
intentional like charity kind of situation with it,

00:59:15.507 --> 00:59:21.727
that they want to feel like part of their venture is teaching a man to fish

00:59:21.727 --> 00:59:23.707
rather than just giving them fish.

00:59:23.707 --> 00:59:31.127
And if we can have that type of conversation more often, then that is honesty in there.

00:59:31.287 --> 00:59:33.607
There is honesty. You can do both.

00:59:33.967 --> 00:59:40.547
And there appears to be a shift in mindset with particularly these young people

00:59:40.547 --> 00:59:47.827
these days who want both. And they tend to search out organizations and companies that do both.

00:59:48.838 --> 00:59:54.158
That's why you see so many corporate entities having these, you know,

00:59:54.358 --> 01:00:00.318
social impact departments or they're doing volunteer days and all of that because

01:00:00.318 --> 01:00:05.798
they understand that, you know, another this this new these last two generation

01:00:05.798 --> 01:00:08.918
of workers want to do more than just make money.

01:00:09.058 --> 01:00:14.378
They want to feel like they have done something to make their community a better place.

01:00:14.378 --> 01:00:23.138
Yeah, but I'm kind of afraid as it was already kind of seeing some movement

01:00:23.138 --> 01:00:29.618
with this new administration coming in that a lot of those companies are kind of backing off of that.

01:00:29.798 --> 01:00:36.158
I know they're backing off of DEI, but I'm concerned about even being concerned

01:00:36.158 --> 01:00:41.898
about social impact because they're they're afraid they're going to be on the wrong side.

01:00:42.598 --> 01:00:47.438
I don't know. And maybe that's just maybe that's just me being a little paranoid about that.

01:00:47.558 --> 01:00:52.698
But just watching the actions that they're taking now, I'm kind of concerned

01:00:52.698 --> 01:00:58.278
about even staying engaged in community for fear that they're going to get some

01:00:58.278 --> 01:01:00.698
kind of political reprisal for that.

01:01:01.938 --> 01:01:09.938
So even folks that are folks that voted for the incoming administration,

01:01:09.938 --> 01:01:14.378
many of them benefit from the social impact.

01:01:15.278 --> 01:01:24.458
Again, they don't like to say it out loud, though. And part of the perhaps shift is, do we say it?

01:01:24.638 --> 01:01:30.418
Do we say the part out loud or do we become quiet with that part and just do it?

01:01:30.698 --> 01:01:40.718
So, for example, there's a company who was very clear that they were pulling back on their DEI,

01:01:40.998 --> 01:01:48.598
yet came out with the commercials that I've seen during the holiday season, one with...

01:01:50.053 --> 01:01:57.293
Actors from a famous movie, Beloved in the Black Community, another with a rapper from the East Coast,

01:01:57.933 --> 01:02:02.113
beloved by the same generation of folks who love that beloved movie,

01:02:02.113 --> 01:02:08.553
and then another with a Black family, you know, getting all of their gifts from

01:02:08.553 --> 01:02:12.213
this same place, this same store.

01:02:12.593 --> 01:02:19.313
So you can say this is what you're doing, but then your actions are very different.

01:02:19.313 --> 01:02:27.833
So perhaps the shift is the quiet part is going to go back to being quiet.

01:02:28.013 --> 01:02:30.193
We're not going to use those words anymore.

01:02:30.473 --> 01:02:35.993
Yet the actions may still be that way.

01:02:35.993 --> 01:02:42.813
Because what these companies understand, and even the incoming administration

01:02:42.813 --> 01:02:50.333
understands that the GDP of the United States is so consumer driven.

01:02:51.373 --> 01:02:59.613
And if folks align their economics with their politics, some of these companies

01:02:59.613 --> 01:03:03.233
understand that they will lose customers.

01:03:03.893 --> 01:03:08.033
And if they lose customers, then regardless of their politics,

01:03:08.033 --> 01:03:10.153
they're not going to have the funds.

01:03:10.373 --> 01:03:14.393
So perhaps what we need to do is stop talking.

01:03:14.913 --> 01:03:20.093
And that was very clear to me again over the holiday season,

01:03:20.093 --> 01:03:25.193
looking at some of these ads, some of these commercials by these companies who

01:03:25.193 --> 01:03:29.333
very publicly gave money to the incoming administration.

01:03:30.333 --> 01:03:40.373
Yeah. So how can social entrepreneurship impact one of your personal concerns, which are food deserts?

01:03:41.159 --> 01:03:47.959
Sure. So when we take a look at a social venture, right, and my students were

01:03:47.959 --> 01:03:51.859
talking about this in the class this last semester.

01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:57.859
So what you can do as a social venture, let's say, take food.

01:03:58.139 --> 01:04:05.199
There are many different ways that one could take an idea about food and having

01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:09.339
food security and then making money and impacting that.

01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:15.559
Also, to be clear, social entrepreneurship is about looking at root causes and

01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:18.079
not just top of line issues.

01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:24.139
So when we consider, for example, food deserts, one could have a market,

01:04:24.139 --> 01:04:29.859
just a pop up market or to get to look at the code,

01:04:30.019 --> 01:04:35.139
the ordinances for your municipality to see what you can do to have like a neighborhood store.

01:04:35.139 --> 01:04:41.039
You can have your neighborhood store, particularly in these spaces that do not have grocery stores.

01:04:41.239 --> 01:04:44.619
They have convenience stores, convenience stores, gas stations.

01:04:44.799 --> 01:04:48.319
These are not, they make it worse.

01:04:48.619 --> 01:04:52.999
It's a food swamp is what it is, where you look at the West End and you have

01:04:52.999 --> 01:04:57.819
these convenience stores, gas stations, and fast food restaurants.

01:04:58.179 --> 01:05:05.919
Those are food swamps. They may provide some type of food, yet it is unhealthy

01:05:05.919 --> 01:05:10.459
food that creates long-term effects, social determinants of health,

01:05:10.819 --> 01:05:13.339
high blood pressure, preventable diseases,

01:05:13.959 --> 01:05:15.879
diabetes, and so forth in those communities.

01:05:16.179 --> 01:05:21.839
So you can have a social entrepreneur can get a local space,

01:05:21.839 --> 01:05:27.399
have a grocery store or a food market. They can partner with...

01:05:29.078 --> 01:05:32.658
Urban gardeners to purchase food from them.

01:05:33.078 --> 01:05:36.978
And so you have a direct line between those gardens.

01:05:37.178 --> 01:05:40.558
It could be community gardens selling their foods to those grocery stores.

01:05:40.738 --> 01:05:44.798
Those grocery stores or those neighborhood markets could then sell the food

01:05:44.798 --> 01:05:46.218
to the people in that community.

01:05:46.758 --> 01:05:55.318
And so with that, you have a supply chain that goes with people locally in the community.

01:05:55.318 --> 01:06:01.158
So you're impacting those urban gardens to where that they can get money,

01:06:01.358 --> 01:06:06.798
they can continue to replenish, they could probably hire people to work that garden.

01:06:06.958 --> 01:06:09.718
So they're creating an impact in the community.

01:06:09.918 --> 01:06:15.678
Then you have that supply going to that neighborhood market where folks are

01:06:15.678 --> 01:06:20.438
then buying from that market, that store is making money, which means that they're

01:06:20.438 --> 01:06:24.858
still able to hire, and then they could either franchise or market out to other spaces.

01:06:25.418 --> 01:06:30.958
And so what do you get? You get a community garden that has a customer that

01:06:30.958 --> 01:06:35.038
can thrive, that could build, that could expand.

01:06:35.158 --> 01:06:38.518
You have the market where people can go and shop.

01:06:38.538 --> 01:06:44.778
So you have fresh food going into that community to increase determinants of health.

01:06:44.878 --> 01:06:51.178
And then you also have employment that could take place because if the market

01:06:51.178 --> 01:06:54.478
is growing and they're getting more customers, they need more employees.

01:06:54.478 --> 01:07:01.598
So it becomes a cyclical effect where you have folks working all together and

01:07:01.598 --> 01:07:04.478
creating community while making money.

01:07:05.798 --> 01:07:15.178
Yeah, I really wish that people would take that seriously as far as being more

01:07:15.178 --> 01:07:23.298
engaged and understanding that you can have businesses that can make an impact for the greater good.

01:07:23.738 --> 01:07:33.238
And I'm hoping that you are seeing increases in enrollment for people to get into that.

01:07:33.358 --> 01:07:35.418
I think that's vitally important.

01:07:35.798 --> 01:07:41.778
It's something that, you know, capitalism has room for, but it just doesn't

01:07:41.778 --> 01:07:44.938
seem, you know, people always think, well, I just got to make money.

01:07:45.878 --> 01:07:49.578
Kind of like the scenario you talked about where somebody that's made money,

01:07:49.758 --> 01:07:54.758
but they getting a little long in the tooth like me, and they're like going,

01:07:54.878 --> 01:07:55.878
oh, I got to do something good.

01:07:56.538 --> 01:07:59.798
So let me see what I can do on that end.

01:08:00.098 --> 01:08:04.058
It's kind of like church almost. Some people, you know, when they're young,

01:08:04.178 --> 01:08:07.838
you know, and then when they get older, it's like, oh, I got to see the Lord.

01:08:07.958 --> 01:08:09.678
Let me start attending, right? Yeah.

01:08:11.583 --> 01:08:14.783
I'm just i'm just just riffing examples

01:08:14.783 --> 01:08:18.543
all right so now i'm gonna get into you teaching

01:08:18.543 --> 01:08:21.483
public policy at at

01:08:21.483 --> 01:08:24.183
georgia state and i found this fascinating it's like when i do

01:08:24.183 --> 01:08:27.643
research on guests i find interesting tidbits

01:08:27.643 --> 01:08:30.963
so there's there's

01:08:30.963 --> 01:08:34.163
this thing called rata teacher or something i didn't even know i'm

01:08:34.163 --> 01:08:37.003
glad that wasn't out my professor yeah right well yeah

01:08:37.003 --> 01:08:39.763
so in 2016 this is

01:08:39.763 --> 01:08:42.583
what people were saying about you oh my gosh get ready to

01:08:42.583 --> 01:08:53.123
read tough grader skip class you won't pass so many papers extra credit in 2024

01:08:53.123 --> 01:08:59.783
they're saying get ready to read amazing lectures tough grader,

01:09:00.343 --> 01:09:03.583
participation matters, gives good feedback.

01:09:04.283 --> 01:09:14.823
So how do you feel that you have evolved as a professor in public policy over these last few years?

01:09:15.383 --> 01:09:23.823
What do you feel that you have gained in reaching out to these young people?

01:09:23.883 --> 01:09:30.263
And I guess I can combine it with another question. What is your greatest satisfaction in teaching?

01:09:33.083 --> 01:09:38.583
So, to quote the current vice president, my values have not changed.

01:09:39.503 --> 01:09:47.763
What I have done, because I'm new to academia, I had a whole nother existence

01:09:47.763 --> 01:09:50.283
before I became a professor.

01:09:50.983 --> 01:09:58.983
And the thing that really struck me is, you know, I had big jobs before I became a professor.

01:09:59.023 --> 01:10:07.843
So I realized early on that all I was doing was doing something where somebody

01:10:07.843 --> 01:10:12.243
else made the rules. And then I was the one to implement those rules.

01:10:12.483 --> 01:10:16.103
And there were times I disagreed with the rules. And then I tried to figure

01:10:16.103 --> 01:10:21.683
out how I can still get the thing accomplished and tweak the rules as I win

01:10:21.683 --> 01:10:24.223
and just be like, oh, I didn't know I couldn't do that.

01:10:25.283 --> 01:10:31.343
And so I brought that with me to academia, to my classroom.

01:10:31.963 --> 01:10:40.363
And so part of the get ready to read is that most times when I started out,

01:10:40.563 --> 01:10:42.463
people told me what to do.

01:10:43.383 --> 01:10:50.743
And I initially accepted it. And then one time I got chastised by my supervisor

01:10:50.743 --> 01:10:55.563
and she said, who told you to do that? And I said, well, you know, so and so did.

01:10:56.083 --> 01:11:00.763
And then she said, did you read the policy? And I said, no, because,

01:11:00.903 --> 01:11:04.443
you know, she's been here 20 years. I just trusted what she said.

01:11:04.883 --> 01:11:09.623
And she said, well, you should go read the policy because what you did was a

01:11:09.623 --> 01:11:14.803
violation of the policy. And if it went past me, you would not be here anymore.

01:11:15.483 --> 01:11:22.603
And I said, duly noted. And I read the policy and I never listened to that other person again.

01:11:22.923 --> 01:11:29.203
But what it taught me was that most of us don't know what the rules are.

01:11:29.563 --> 01:11:34.923
We know what someone tells us what the rules are. And when we don't know what

01:11:34.923 --> 01:11:37.143
the rules are, we get in trouble.

01:11:37.963 --> 01:11:43.163
And my whole shtick is we should all know what the rules are.

01:11:43.563 --> 01:11:47.343
And if we know what the rules are, we know where the boundaries are,

01:11:47.483 --> 01:11:49.343
we can thrive in that space.

01:11:49.503 --> 01:11:52.143
We can't thrive if we don't know what the rules are, though.

01:11:52.303 --> 01:11:53.743
So let's learn these rules.

01:11:53.943 --> 01:12:01.903
Let's learn how it works so that we can do all of the things that we say we want to do in life.

01:12:02.083 --> 01:12:07.043
We say we want to impact our community, but we don't know what the rules are.

01:12:07.143 --> 01:12:14.403
We say we want to have better streets, better schools, grocery stores.

01:12:14.403 --> 01:12:17.823
We say we want to have these things, but we don't know what the rules are.

01:12:18.343 --> 01:12:24.563
Oftentimes, as I tell my students, we are hollering at the plumber because our

01:12:24.563 --> 01:12:29.063
electricity doesn't work, because we don't know who's responsible for what.

01:12:29.063 --> 01:12:31.823
So let's figure out what these rules are.

01:12:32.123 --> 01:12:37.423
Let's understand the rules. And then let's use these rules to our advantage.

01:12:37.523 --> 01:12:43.643
And if we don't like the rules, well, then you come to me and I teach you how

01:12:43.643 --> 01:12:46.203
to go about changing the rules.

01:12:47.597 --> 01:12:56.357
And so part of my joy of being an educator is to see the light bulb come on,

01:12:56.617 --> 01:13:01.237
to see the understanding come to be.

01:13:01.837 --> 01:13:09.357
And for my students to leave me and go off somewhere and then come back and

01:13:09.357 --> 01:13:15.517
check in with me to say, you know, when we did that one thing in class, I was so mad at you.

01:13:15.697 --> 01:13:20.157
But that works. I can't believe that works. See, it works.

01:13:20.397 --> 01:13:24.137
That is the greatest joy is I

01:13:24.137 --> 01:13:32.297
push my students and I push them hard because some of them perhaps have not

01:13:32.297 --> 01:13:42.577
been given the demand of expectations that they have been thrown away for whatever reason.

01:13:43.277 --> 01:13:50.277
And that's not what we do here. What we do with me is we push.

01:13:50.757 --> 01:13:58.397
I tell them, I push you. You will cry. You may even call me names, not to my face, though.

01:13:58.717 --> 01:14:04.957
But at the end of the day, you're going to be proud of all that you've accomplished.

01:14:05.117 --> 01:14:11.317
And I'm just happy to be a footnote in the book that is their life.

01:14:12.197 --> 01:14:17.497
Yeah, that's so cool. I think, you know, I love teachers. I think teaching is

01:14:17.497 --> 01:14:18.557
the noblest profession.

01:14:19.297 --> 01:14:24.197
And I had a privilege of doing it, you know, at Piney Woods.

01:14:24.937 --> 01:14:33.637
And that same euphoria, that same high about that light bulb coming on means a whole lot.

01:14:35.217 --> 01:14:41.737
But what you talked about as far as reading That resonates with me as well Because

01:14:41.737 --> 01:14:45.297
when I got in the legislature,

01:14:46.651 --> 01:14:52.771
Knowing the rules and reading the bills was like a superpower.

01:14:52.971 --> 01:14:55.891
Now, you would think that everybody that's elected would do that,

01:14:56.031 --> 01:14:59.111
but they do not. I can. I'm a witness. They do not.

01:14:59.711 --> 01:15:05.731
And so those of us who read the bills and understand the rules of Jeffersonian

01:15:05.731 --> 01:15:10.791
parliamentary procedure, you're kind of you're the one eyed man in the land of the blind.

01:15:10.931 --> 01:15:17.071
I'm just I'm just being truthful about that. So I greatly appreciate you stressing

01:15:17.071 --> 01:15:21.271
the fact that you need to understand where you are.

01:15:21.311 --> 01:15:27.191
And I even add the history in that, because if you understand how we got to

01:15:27.191 --> 01:15:34.551
this point, that what that determines why the rules make sense and why people do what they do.

01:15:35.491 --> 01:15:37.931
All right. So I'm getting carried away with this conversation.

01:15:37.931 --> 01:15:43.651
I still got a lot of stuff to talk to you about, but let's see if we can kind of swing through it.

01:15:43.691 --> 01:15:46.851
Because one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was Georgia itself.

01:15:49.391 --> 01:15:54.231
Georgia outperformed every swing state from my analysis. Now,

01:15:54.351 --> 01:15:56.631
if you have a different read, you let me know.

01:15:56.751 --> 01:16:00.291
But as far as I could tell, Georgia outperformed every swing state.

01:16:00.911 --> 01:16:03.071
Why do you think that was the case?

01:16:04.091 --> 01:16:07.711
Georgia is the canary in the coal mine when it comes to the form of Confederacy.

01:16:07.931 --> 01:16:15.191
The challenge is whether or not Georgia wants to fully embrace being the leader

01:16:15.191 --> 01:16:17.051
of the former Confederacy.

01:16:18.171 --> 01:16:25.011
And so that means that here in Georgia, regardless of one's thought process

01:16:25.011 --> 01:16:29.471
about Georgia, Georgia is much more,

01:16:30.862 --> 01:16:38.642
flexible in its movement out of the shadow of being a former Confederate state.

01:16:38.922 --> 01:16:45.722
That means that here you see a diversification of the industry.

01:16:45.722 --> 01:16:54.962
You see the different organizations, you see different companies move into Georgia

01:16:54.962 --> 01:16:59.842
that is unique to the Southeast.

01:17:00.862 --> 01:17:06.162
And I say this because when we consider tech, when we consider the arts,

01:17:06.422 --> 01:17:09.622
when we consider clean energy,

01:17:10.002 --> 01:17:16.022
when you see this innovation in technology, it is happening here.

01:17:16.262 --> 01:17:21.502
You have the, you know, relatively mild climate of Georgia.

01:17:21.502 --> 01:17:28.342
You have folks who are children of people or grandchildren of people from the

01:17:28.342 --> 01:17:32.882
Great Migration returning back to the South, and particularly Georgia.

01:17:33.202 --> 01:17:39.622
You see the TV film industry moving here in different parts of Georgia,

01:17:39.822 --> 01:17:41.922
not just in the metro Atlanta area.

01:17:41.922 --> 01:17:48.982
So you have all of these different uniquenesses that are moving into the state

01:17:48.982 --> 01:17:56.422
that creates a very interesting political and policy dynamic within the state.

01:17:56.422 --> 01:18:00.322
And when we're paying attention to that.

01:18:01.222 --> 01:18:08.762
Then you can fully appreciate and understand how Georgia is moving and how that

01:18:08.762 --> 01:18:15.602
can actually impact the rest of the Southeast, in particular, Alabama and Florida,

01:18:16.042 --> 01:18:22.302
South Carolina, North Carolina, because they are in its proximity to the state.

01:18:22.302 --> 01:18:26.742
Yeah, I think it's fascinating to,

01:18:27.297 --> 01:18:34.917
So it's more engagement in your mindset because, you know, Biden only won by

01:18:34.917 --> 01:18:37.737
11,000, well, 12,000 votes, basically.

01:18:38.557 --> 01:18:42.297
And Kamala got 70,000 more votes than Joe Biden did.

01:18:42.717 --> 01:18:49.057
And then Donald Trump got 200,000 more. And so what it sounds like to me is

01:18:49.057 --> 01:18:57.017
that you're saying because of all of the different opportunities and industries and all that stuff,

01:18:57.017 --> 01:19:03.857
you have a more engaged electorate as opposed to some other states where their

01:19:03.857 --> 01:19:07.937
their diversity is stagnant. You know what industry is there.

01:19:08.177 --> 01:19:14.617
That's why you go to that state and say like Nevada, that's gaming that Michigan. It's the auto industry.

01:19:14.757 --> 01:19:21.277
You know that. So it's like with with Georgia, you're getting an influx of different industries.

01:19:21.637 --> 01:19:24.697
Therefore, you're getting an influx of different thought and philosophies.

01:19:24.877 --> 01:19:27.957
And those people tend to be more engaged politically.

01:19:28.877 --> 01:19:34.217
Yes, absolutely. And some of them come from from states that have more engagement.

01:19:34.677 --> 01:19:42.157
So they bring that type of muscle memory inside of Georgia when they come here.

01:19:42.157 --> 01:19:48.957
So that muscle memory of, you know, I understand what the different levels of government do.

01:19:49.177 --> 01:19:52.777
And so I'm going to engage in those different levels of government.

01:19:52.777 --> 01:19:57.017
I understand the importance of my civic participation.

01:19:57.717 --> 01:20:01.917
The very first thing that is my responsibility as a citizen of this country

01:20:01.917 --> 01:20:06.097
is the ability to vote. And so I'm going to engage in that.

01:20:06.517 --> 01:20:09.697
Yeah, you see that. You see that taking place.

01:20:10.257 --> 01:20:15.837
Now, there were a couple other questions, and I'm trying to be respectful of your time.

01:20:16.927 --> 01:20:19.907
And I'm trying to figure out which one do I want to ask.

01:20:20.427 --> 01:20:27.587
So let's go with let's go with something that you had stated that Donald Trump

01:20:27.587 --> 01:20:34.767
catered to the aspirations of migrant communities, despite his rhetoric of mass deportation.

01:20:35.687 --> 01:20:44.467
How did he do that? And why did it work? So what the president did is that he

01:20:44.467 --> 01:20:50.587
understands that people, the American dream is aspirational.

01:20:51.147 --> 01:20:56.067
So when we understand that and appreciate that, you know,

01:20:56.267 --> 01:21:00.967
the whatever the American dream is, and most of it is consumerism,

01:21:01.007 --> 01:21:07.727
is to have enough money to do whatever it is that you want to do to not be poor

01:21:07.727 --> 01:21:10.747
because we do not like poor people, particularly in this country.

01:21:11.187 --> 01:21:15.887
So to not be poor, to have money, money equals power.

01:21:16.287 --> 01:21:20.327
Money means that I can do whatever it is I want to do. I can send my children

01:21:20.327 --> 01:21:21.907
wherever I want to send my children to.

01:21:22.047 --> 01:21:24.987
I can talk to anybody the way I can talk to them.

01:21:26.127 --> 01:21:32.107
So the aspiration of that is what the...

01:21:33.176 --> 01:21:38.116
Incoming administration, the former president, incoming president, has done.

01:21:38.336 --> 01:21:41.876
He did his first time around, his second time around, and even now.

01:21:42.296 --> 01:21:47.636
So if I say to you, you can do anything. Look at me.

01:21:48.056 --> 01:21:55.196
Look at where I've come from. These other people are trying to take this away from you.

01:21:55.556 --> 01:22:03.196
And even if you're talking within communities about the same type of person

01:22:03.196 --> 01:22:09.736
that could have been that person's grandfather, grandmother, it doesn't matter.

01:22:10.436 --> 01:22:16.556
The aspiration of someone is trying to take something away from you and let's

01:22:16.556 --> 01:22:22.236
blame it on a particular group of people, that matters because then it turns

01:22:22.236 --> 01:22:24.896
into, I'm not keeping me down.

01:22:25.136 --> 01:22:30.396
That other person, those other group of people are taking things away from me

01:22:30.396 --> 01:22:32.336
that is bringing me down.

01:22:32.656 --> 01:22:38.356
And the thought that everyone wants to be like me, right?

01:22:38.536 --> 01:22:42.056
It's like the 1990s, 1980s, be like Mike.

01:22:42.316 --> 01:22:48.636
Everyone wants to be like, and in order to be like, then you need someone like

01:22:48.636 --> 01:22:53.296
me to be in that spot to help you to get to that spot.

01:22:53.456 --> 01:22:58.416
And I'm going to make sure that the policies that I put into place are going

01:22:58.416 --> 01:23:02.156
to help you whenever you get to this spot that I'm in.

01:23:02.556 --> 01:23:07.096
I'm gonna have policies there where you're not gonna have to pay all of those taxes.

01:23:07.396 --> 01:23:11.576
I'll have policies there to make sure that your children get what they wanna do.

01:23:11.616 --> 01:23:17.256
I'll have policies there to where those regulations are not going to hold your business back.

01:23:17.556 --> 01:23:22.596
It's the aspiration of one day you'll get there too.

01:23:22.816 --> 01:23:29.336
And when you do get there, let's make sure that the road is easily paved for

01:23:29.336 --> 01:23:31.076
you so that you can be successful.

01:23:32.249 --> 01:23:36.009
Regardless if you get there. Yeah. And, and, you know, I can,

01:23:36.189 --> 01:23:38.229
I can understand why people,

01:23:38.469 --> 01:23:47.529
even in migrant communities would buy into it, even though he's threatening to kick some of you out.

01:23:47.569 --> 01:23:52.489
It's like, in my mind said, well, if I, if I can achieve, then I won't be one of the ones kicked out.

01:23:53.009 --> 01:23:56.349
That's, that's kind of that. Well, I won't say delusional hope,

01:23:56.429 --> 01:24:01.449
but it's that hope that I can overcome. I won't be one of the ones that get

01:24:01.449 --> 01:24:06.889
singled out. if I follow this guy as opposed to anybody else.

01:24:08.929 --> 01:24:15.469
And it makes it the way I understand after the election and had conversations,

01:24:15.469 --> 01:24:20.169
what I understood the thought process in some folks'

01:24:20.309 --> 01:24:29.369
minds is that it was they felt more self-determination from him,

01:24:29.369 --> 01:24:32.889
Regardless of his words,

01:24:33.189 --> 01:24:41.549
what certain people interpreted was self-determination, and that's important

01:24:41.549 --> 01:24:44.269
to them. That's what they got from it, though.

01:24:45.509 --> 01:24:54.529
So last question, because, again, time, but you gave this lecture about third parties.

01:24:55.869 --> 01:25:00.509
So we could, based on the questions I had drawn up, we could do a whole nother show on that.

01:25:00.609 --> 01:25:06.169
But I just want to ask, because there's a lot of talk now about a third party

01:25:06.169 --> 01:25:13.769
emerging, even more so to me than after Ross Perot did what he did in the 90s.

01:25:15.069 --> 01:25:20.369
Will we see a viable third party emerge in our lifetime?

01:25:20.649 --> 01:25:22.749
Now, your lifetime is going to be a little longer than mine.

01:25:22.749 --> 01:25:24.389
And so we'll keep that in perspective.

01:25:24.869 --> 01:25:26.809
But will we see that?

01:25:27.589 --> 01:25:29.269
No. Okay.

01:25:30.209 --> 01:25:32.029
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. No, go ahead.

01:25:33.149 --> 01:25:43.949
And I say no, and I say it quickly, and I say it from an understanding politics perspective.

01:25:43.949 --> 01:25:56.909
So to have a viable third party means that you are active, engaged, consistently, and,

01:25:57.590 --> 01:26:02.770
the state and more importantly, the local level in all 50 states.

01:26:03.150 --> 01:26:10.070
If there is a movement of folks who want a third party and they are only competing

01:26:10.070 --> 01:26:15.930
at the presidential level every four years and in only selective states,

01:26:16.490 --> 01:26:18.690
it's performative.

01:26:19.070 --> 01:26:22.330
You're not really serious about winning.

01:26:22.630 --> 01:26:31.370
You are in, I don't know what your intentions are, yet the impact is to underplay,

01:26:31.650 --> 01:26:41.830
to down my, to undermine and really to take away the seriousness of our politics and policy.

01:26:42.010 --> 01:26:43.950
It creates a game.

01:26:44.230 --> 01:26:50.590
This is not a game. You know, it frustrates me that we talk about politics and

01:26:50.590 --> 01:26:54.210
policy as if it is a game, like we're playing chess.

01:26:55.150 --> 01:27:02.490
We're not. We are playing. These are people's lives that seem to be thrown away

01:27:02.490 --> 01:27:08.070
because people want to, for whatever reason, participate.

01:27:08.070 --> 01:27:16.930
If a third party wants to be viable, there are municipal elections that happen

01:27:16.930 --> 01:27:18.990
in this country every single year.

01:27:19.230 --> 01:27:24.550
Are those candidates or people that support that party participating in those elections?

01:27:24.930 --> 01:27:32.150
We have statewide elections that take place. how many folks how many folks in

01:27:32.150 --> 01:27:38.310
Georgia who are third party get on the ballot for the.

01:27:39.668 --> 01:27:44.188
Georgia General Assembly seat? Or do they just get on the ballot for governor

01:27:44.188 --> 01:27:45.168
or lieutenant governor?

01:27:45.588 --> 01:27:48.788
Where are you when it comes to county,

01:27:49.028 --> 01:27:54.008
even though the county CEOs are nonpartisan, but where are you there?

01:27:54.328 --> 01:28:00.088
Where are you when it comes to a public commissioner spot, right?

01:28:00.268 --> 01:28:02.388
Public service commissioner spot, where are you?

01:28:02.588 --> 01:28:09.628
And if you're not there, then how can we take it with the level of seriousness

01:28:09.628 --> 01:28:15.088
that one says that they want when it comes to some of these federal seats.

01:28:15.308 --> 01:28:20.768
If you're not there for the local part, how are you going to jump in on the federal part?

01:28:21.208 --> 01:28:28.968
It doesn't make logical sense that someone should get a prestigious spot when

01:28:28.968 --> 01:28:30.628
they have not demonstrated.

01:28:30.928 --> 01:28:34.708
And one could argue that this happens all the time in every single election.

01:28:34.708 --> 01:28:40.828
Yet and still, when it comes to folks who are engaged in politics and policy,

01:28:40.988 --> 01:28:43.228
particularly who want to be third party candidates,

01:28:43.548 --> 01:28:51.928
are you clear on the level and breadth of issues that go beyond your initial concern?

01:28:52.308 --> 01:28:58.868
Right. Are we talking about how those policies impact us domestically and internationally?

01:28:58.868 --> 01:29:02.988
What about all of these other positions that come up?

01:29:03.168 --> 01:29:08.868
If a third party is successful at being president, there are cabinet positions that need to be filled.

01:29:09.834 --> 01:29:11.514
Are federal judges that need to

01:29:11.514 --> 01:29:16.374
be filled. There are all of these other positions that need to be filled.

01:29:16.494 --> 01:29:21.374
There's inside of the White House, legislative aides and legislative directors

01:29:21.374 --> 01:29:23.254
and people that need to work with Congress.

01:29:23.454 --> 01:29:31.514
There's a bunch of nuances there that a third party does not have the structure

01:29:31.514 --> 01:29:36.854
in order to be successful because you don't have people who are willing to go

01:29:36.854 --> 01:29:40.454
to bat for you because you have not put in the work.

01:29:40.634 --> 01:29:49.814
And my only challenge to folks that are in these independent parties is the

01:29:49.814 --> 01:29:53.894
work that is not there in order to be successful.

01:29:54.154 --> 01:30:00.974
We've seen throughout history, third parties come up, third parties have not been unsuccessful.

01:30:01.374 --> 01:30:06.354
One could argue it's because the two-party system is there to make sure that

01:30:06.354 --> 01:30:07.734
third parties aren't successful.

01:30:07.954 --> 01:30:12.614
Well, that's why there are PACs and super PACs, because they can make a dent in it as well.

01:30:12.974 --> 01:30:20.934
But if there is no seriousness, which takes time, it takes groundwork,

01:30:21.134 --> 01:30:23.294
it takes time to make it happen.

01:30:23.554 --> 01:30:29.874
Just like the current version of people that support this upcoming administration,

01:30:29.874 --> 01:30:36.234
they have been putting in the work for decades upon decades upon decades.

01:30:36.534 --> 01:30:42.934
Do we have anyone in this third party, in this independent party system that

01:30:42.934 --> 01:30:51.214
has put in the work constantly, constantly, constantly over these many decades? I have not seen it.

01:30:51.334 --> 01:30:53.654
I welcome any evidence of it.

01:30:53.814 --> 01:30:57.394
I welcome any literature about it. I haven't seen it.

01:30:57.514 --> 01:31:03.094
And if you only pop up every four years, how can we take you seriously?

01:31:03.314 --> 01:31:08.934
How can we take it seriously if you're not competing in Montana or Wyoming or

01:31:08.934 --> 01:31:13.934
South Dakota, yet there's only the competition in swing states?

01:31:15.038 --> 01:31:18.678
Need help understanding that. That does not demonstrate seriousness.

01:31:19.518 --> 01:31:23.558
Amen, amen, and amen. That's the gospel I've been preaching.

01:31:24.238 --> 01:31:29.638
And if people are serious about it, that's exactly what they have to do.

01:31:30.158 --> 01:31:35.358
Marcus Garvey's example, when he got deported back to Jamaica,

01:31:35.678 --> 01:31:38.718
he started a political party, but he didn't run for prime minister.

01:31:38.858 --> 01:31:44.078
He ran for the city council in the city he lived in and built a political party,

01:31:44.078 --> 01:31:46.858
I think is still viable today in Jamaica.

01:31:47.058 --> 01:31:51.478
I'm not an expert in Jamaican politics, but I know that's what he did.

01:31:51.738 --> 01:31:57.178
And I think that's kind of the thing. Everybody wants the big prize because

01:31:57.178 --> 01:31:59.378
Angela Raya asked a question to Jill Stein.

01:31:59.778 --> 01:32:04.478
If you get in, who in Congress is going to be your ally? Because there's no

01:32:04.478 --> 01:32:06.798
Green Party people in Congress.

01:32:07.038 --> 01:32:12.158
And she couldn't answer the question. and because there's no thought into that.

01:32:12.338 --> 01:32:14.478
So I greatly appreciate you saying that.

01:32:15.498 --> 01:32:19.378
And I'm going to make that the last question, but I want you to tell people

01:32:19.378 --> 01:32:24.358
how they can get in touch with you, how they can find stuff.

01:32:24.518 --> 01:32:25.138
You know what I'm saying?

01:32:25.318 --> 01:32:28.018
That, you know, work that you've done, all that kind of thing.

01:32:28.838 --> 01:32:36.678
Sure. So I'm only on LinkedIn and I post every now and then on there. I.

01:32:38.219 --> 01:32:42.979
At Georgia State and the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies and the Public

01:32:42.979 --> 01:32:44.919
Management and Policy Department.

01:32:45.359 --> 01:32:51.319
You're welcome to come over and see all the things that we have going on.

01:32:51.919 --> 01:32:57.879
If you do a search of me on your favorite search engine, you'll probably see

01:32:57.879 --> 01:33:01.379
quite a few speaking engagements that I've had.

01:33:01.519 --> 01:33:07.039
And as you said, on WABE quite often, and just in this space,

01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:15.219
I am working with a local coffee shop for 2025 to put on a once a month civic

01:33:15.219 --> 01:33:21.659
education event where we will first learn structure and function of government.

01:33:21.959 --> 01:33:26.639
And after we learn who's responsible for what, how it's supposed to work,

01:33:26.819 --> 01:33:31.899
then we can get to these top level issues that we are very passionate about.

01:33:31.899 --> 01:33:38.339
Yet we need to seriously understand how it works and who is responsible in order

01:33:38.339 --> 01:33:41.999
for us to get those things done that we're so passionate about.

01:33:42.439 --> 01:33:46.759
Well, Dr. Tammy Greer, I hope that a lot of people show up to drink coffee at

01:33:46.759 --> 01:33:50.159
42025 Coffee Shop and listen to you.

01:33:50.479 --> 01:33:53.799
It's been a blessing to have you to come on on this podcast.

01:33:53.799 --> 01:34:00.459
And one of the rules that I state to guests, either on air or off the air,

01:34:00.619 --> 01:34:03.279
is that you have an open invitation to come back.

01:34:03.399 --> 01:34:06.639
If there's some burning in your chest that you feel that you've got to talk

01:34:06.639 --> 01:34:09.979
about, just let me know and we'll make that happen.

01:34:10.179 --> 01:34:16.439
So thank you for coming on, and I greatly appreciate what you're doing in the

01:34:16.439 --> 01:34:21.319
community and especially in the classroom. Thank you.

01:34:22.059 --> 01:34:23.879
All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:34.000
Music.

01:34:35.843 --> 01:34:40.943
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Jessica Weinstein and Dr.

01:34:41.123 --> 01:34:47.343
Tammy Greer for their insight and their contributions to what's been going on

01:34:47.343 --> 01:34:51.803
in the state of Georgia. And that's how this this episode is going to be titled.

01:34:52.103 --> 01:34:54.343
This is, you know, a Georgia perspective.

01:34:56.403 --> 01:35:04.103
And the interesting thing was, from the activist side, Georgia is different

01:35:04.103 --> 01:35:11.243
because people are on the ground doing the work to get people to participate in the election.

01:35:11.523 --> 01:35:17.763
And from the academic side, we heard that people are more naturally engaged

01:35:17.763 --> 01:35:23.883
because of what they're involved in at work, what they're involved in in their culture.

01:35:24.343 --> 01:35:29.723
And where they've migrated from, whether it's from another state or another

01:35:29.723 --> 01:35:36.123
country, the people that come here tend to be more civically engaged,

01:35:36.383 --> 01:35:38.683
which I think is very, very interesting.

01:35:38.683 --> 01:35:41.383
I think that's an incredible combination to have.

01:35:41.743 --> 01:35:46.943
And I wish that all 50 states had it, that you have people who are civically

01:35:46.943 --> 01:35:52.803
engaged and you have people willing to knock on doors and to make the phone

01:35:52.803 --> 01:35:58.523
calls and send the text messages and remind people that it's time to get engaged.

01:36:00.040 --> 01:36:03.320
Not just during election season, but all throughout the process,

01:36:03.320 --> 01:36:06.740
because the easiest part is the election.

01:36:07.120 --> 01:36:10.960
I say that as somebody that's been a candidate, somebody has been an activist.

01:36:12.180 --> 01:36:18.860
The election is the easy part. It's the term that that person is serving is

01:36:18.860 --> 01:36:21.840
the toughest to actually make policy decisions.

01:36:22.500 --> 01:36:27.340
And so we have to be engaged in order to make sure that those people are making

01:36:27.340 --> 01:36:30.060
the right decisions for our communities. Right.

01:36:30.640 --> 01:36:33.660
Especially those of us in African-American black community.

01:36:34.600 --> 01:36:42.660
Right. That we we have to maintain a level of engagement to make sure that our

01:36:42.660 --> 01:36:47.460
voices are always heard and that our opinions are always respected. Right.

01:36:49.200 --> 01:36:55.940
I really think that, you know, things could be really, really bad.

01:36:57.080 --> 01:37:02.800
But one of the things we cannot do is to cower in fear over that,

01:37:03.400 --> 01:37:08.420
to get caught up in despair and, you know, the war with me kind of stuff.

01:37:08.600 --> 01:37:14.540
We don't really have the luxury to do that because in my mind,

01:37:14.540 --> 01:37:19.520
I think about what my parents went through. What my grandparents went through.

01:37:19.880 --> 01:37:27.560
In my mind, I imagine what people in Mississippi and Georgia in the 1800s went

01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:32.580
through before the Civil War and after Reconstruction, right?

01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:38.780
I just think about how tough it really,

01:37:38.920 --> 01:37:46.600
really was and how we are so fortunate that we have laws and tools available

01:37:46.600 --> 01:37:55.300
to us and knowledge available to us that we don't have to struggle as hard as

01:37:55.300 --> 01:37:57.200
our forefathers and foremothers did.

01:37:58.560 --> 01:38:06.220
That we should have confidence and the courage to stand up even when it's not

01:38:06.220 --> 01:38:09.740
the most popular or cool thing to do, right?

01:38:10.500 --> 01:38:15.320
It may not get you a whole lot of clicks on social media. It may not get you

01:38:15.320 --> 01:38:20.140
a whole lot of viewers on your YouTube or on your podcast.

01:38:20.920 --> 01:38:30.600
But if it's the right thing to do and if it's to uplift our community then it needs to be done and I,

01:38:31.567 --> 01:38:36.907
I just want people in 2025 to hunker down and commit to doing that.

01:38:37.207 --> 01:38:40.687
I know some people will say, well, you know, we're going to let these folks

01:38:40.687 --> 01:38:43.407
handle it because they disappointed us and blah, blah.

01:38:43.627 --> 01:38:46.967
Look, our battle has always been our battle.

01:38:47.447 --> 01:38:51.027
If people want to join us in the fight, we welcome them to it.

01:38:51.027 --> 01:38:53.947
But it's still going to be our battle at the end of the day.

01:38:53.947 --> 01:39:02.787
And we have to be built or encased in the armor that we need to fight it.

01:39:04.247 --> 01:39:08.587
And we have those tools. Doesn't matter how old you are.

01:39:08.747 --> 01:39:12.807
Doesn't matter how poor you are. You have those tools.

01:39:13.627 --> 01:39:17.407
You have a voice. And you can make a difference.

01:39:18.167 --> 01:39:23.527
And so I hope that the conversations you heard today remind you of that.

01:39:23.947 --> 01:39:30.287
And I hope that you carry that through 2025 because we need that.

01:39:31.487 --> 01:39:37.827
If, you know, I'm a sports guy. I played baseball. I love all sports.

01:39:38.147 --> 01:39:45.607
And it's always mindset of coaches that I've played for was that if you can

01:39:45.607 --> 01:39:48.747
win at the beginning, you can win at the end.

01:39:49.227 --> 01:39:54.947
Right. If you've got a dominant pitcher, the best time to get that dominant

01:39:54.947 --> 01:39:56.227
pitcher is the first inning.

01:39:57.807 --> 01:40:05.687
If you're facing a team that is supposed to be formidable, you've got to get

01:40:05.687 --> 01:40:06.547
them in the first quarter.

01:40:06.907 --> 01:40:12.227
If you send a message in the first quarter and you can keep that energy up all

01:40:12.227 --> 01:40:13.987
through the game, you'll win.

01:40:14.567 --> 01:40:16.727
I wholeheartedly believe in that.

01:40:17.947 --> 01:40:23.827
And that's what we have to look at 2025 is the first quarter that we have to

01:40:23.827 --> 01:40:28.327
put up as strong a resistance as possible to anything that's crazy and detrimental

01:40:28.327 --> 01:40:32.547
to us and secure as many victories as we can.

01:40:32.967 --> 01:40:39.587
So that by the end, as stated in the intro, we'll get to that morning of joy.

01:40:39.587 --> 01:40:41.307
We'll get to that finish line.

01:40:41.467 --> 01:40:44.087
We'll win that race. We'll win that game.

01:40:45.547 --> 01:40:53.447
I just really believe that. And, you know, so I'm hoping that we all find the

01:40:53.447 --> 01:40:58.187
encouragement, find the strength to go forward and to make that a reality.

01:40:58.687 --> 01:41:03.267
As always, I greatly appreciate y'all. So thank y'all for listening.

01:41:03.947 --> 01:41:07.967
Happy New Year to everybody. And thank you.

01:41:07.920 --> 01:41:57.012
Music.