100 Days Later Featuring Julia Ismael, Sean Miller, Melba Pearson, and Dr. Tracy Pearson

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.117
Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

00:00:06.397 --> 00:00:08.977
I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

00:00:09.297 --> 00:00:12.737
If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

00:00:13.237 --> 00:00:19.377
First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

00:00:19.777 --> 00:00:24.637
Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

00:00:24.637 --> 00:00:27.957
truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

00:00:28.537 --> 00:00:32.857
Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

00:00:32.857 --> 00:00:35.617
listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

00:00:36.457 --> 00:00:41.937
Third, go to the website, momenteric.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

00:00:42.277 --> 00:00:47.257
leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

00:00:47.837 --> 00:00:51.857
Lastly, don't keep this a secret, like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

00:00:52.577 --> 00:00:57.097
Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

00:00:57.097 --> 00:01:02.437
and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

00:01:02.437 --> 00:01:04.197
make this moment a movement.

00:01:04.557 --> 00:01:10.197
Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

00:01:11.497 --> 00:01:16.497
The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:56.080
Music.

00:01:56.699 --> 00:02:01.639
Hello, and welcome to Another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:08.019
And today, y'all, I'm excited, but I'm going to give you a warning. This is a long episode.

00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:11.559
But I'm excited, even though it's a long episode,

00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:16.899
is because the conversations that you're going to hear in this episode of the

00:02:16.899 --> 00:02:24.119
podcast center around the first hundred days of this administration,

00:02:24.559 --> 00:02:27.379
the second Donald Trump term.

00:02:28.459 --> 00:02:31.699
And I'm really, really excited.

00:02:32.139 --> 00:02:37.259
I mean, these conversations really, we get the young lady who is going to be

00:02:37.259 --> 00:02:41.879
on, she's basically in the world of DEIA.

00:02:43.099 --> 00:02:48.879
And so she gives her perspectives about the challenges, not only being under

00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:54.519
this administration, but, you know, just in general and where we should go.

00:02:55.259 --> 00:02:59.699
Then I have a young man who is not affiliated with the Democrats or the Republicans,

00:03:00.459 --> 00:03:06.599
who has started an organization to deal with issues, more of a libertarian, if anything else.

00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:14.139
But it's interesting. He gives an interesting perspective about where we are

00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:19.459
in these first hundred days, his criticisms, and even some things that he might have liked, right?

00:03:19.679 --> 00:03:27.239
And then, as a special treat, we have the podcast law firm of Pearson and Pearson.

00:03:27.399 --> 00:03:33.679
Yes, my good friends, Dr. Tracy and Melba have teamed up again to give us another

00:03:33.679 --> 00:03:41.879
insightful conversation about the legal impact of what's happened over these first hundred days.

00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:47.119
So, I know I'm asking a lot from y'all.

00:03:47.904 --> 00:03:51.784
To sit through some of these podcasts because they're going to be long.

00:03:53.064 --> 00:04:00.224
But again, I will defend it because the detail in the conversation to really

00:04:00.224 --> 00:04:03.764
get to know somebody, to really get them to take the time,

00:04:04.644 --> 00:04:09.364
and not in a soundbite, but to really get off a clear thought,

00:04:09.364 --> 00:04:12.944
I think is invaluable because it's a conversation.

00:04:13.664 --> 00:04:19.524
And we don't want to limit the conversation to eight minutes to 10 minutes to 15 minutes even, right?

00:04:20.144 --> 00:04:25.764
We want to have an in-depth conversation. So if that means a long podcast, then it is what it is.

00:04:25.864 --> 00:04:30.764
But I hope those of you who faithfully listen do it because you appreciate the

00:04:30.764 --> 00:04:33.924
fact that we get in-depth in these conversations.

00:04:37.024 --> 00:04:43.064
And even the length of the, you're still scratching the surface sometimes based on the subject matter.

00:04:43.584 --> 00:04:48.024
That's especially true with my good friends, Tracy and Melba,

00:04:48.244 --> 00:04:51.844
when we get to talking about legal stuff going on.

00:04:52.024 --> 00:04:56.384
So let's go ahead and get this show on the road.

00:04:56.964 --> 00:05:01.944
And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:08.240
Music.

00:05:08.844 --> 00:05:14.084
Thanks, Erik. President Trump held events marking his first 100 days in office

00:05:14.084 --> 00:05:19.004
to highlight his administration's achievements amid unprecedented negative approval ratings.

00:05:19.204 --> 00:05:22.924
President Trump dismissed National Security Advisor Mike Waltz,

00:05:23.064 --> 00:05:26.484
appointed Secretary of State Marco Rubio as his interim replacement,

00:05:26.764 --> 00:05:28.804
and then nominated Waltz as U.N.

00:05:28.884 --> 00:05:33.164
Ambassador against a background of criticism over the March signal call scandal.

00:05:33.584 --> 00:05:37.544
Columbia University student Mohsen Madawi was released from U.S.

00:05:37.664 --> 00:05:43.724
Custody after a judge blocked his deportation tied to pro-Palestinian protests. The U.S.

00:05:43.804 --> 00:05:49.044
And Ukraine finalized a Trump-backed deal granting preferential mineral access to the U.S.

00:05:49.144 --> 00:05:51.444
And establishing a Reconstruction Fund.

00:05:51.784 --> 00:05:56.704
Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney's liberals narrowly retained power in parliamentary

00:05:56.704 --> 00:06:01.984
elections after a campaign influenced by opposition to U.S. tariffs and policies.

00:06:02.464 --> 00:06:07.024
Wisconsin Judge Hannah Dugan was arrested and charged with obstructing a federal

00:06:07.024 --> 00:06:11.184
investigation by allegedly helping a man in her courtroom evade arrest.

00:06:11.724 --> 00:06:15.784
Former U.S. Representative George Santos was sentenced to over seven years in

00:06:15.784 --> 00:06:20.364
prison for fraud and identity theft after pleading guilty to charges related

00:06:20.364 --> 00:06:22.924
to his 2022 election campaign.

00:06:23.144 --> 00:06:28.544
A former Taliban commander, Haji Najibullah, leaded guilty to kidnapping a journalist

00:06:28.544 --> 00:06:33.584
and Afghan nationals in 2008-2009 and faces life imprisonment.

00:06:33.944 --> 00:06:38.124
Luigi Mangione pleaded not guilty to federal charges for the killing of health

00:06:38.124 --> 00:06:40.104
insurance executive Brian Thompson.

00:06:40.624 --> 00:06:46.264
Kenyan opposition lawmaker Charles Ware was assassinated in Nairobi by motorcycle-riding

00:06:46.264 --> 00:06:48.944
shooters, with his driver surviving the attack.

00:06:49.484 --> 00:06:53.944
The historic Claiborne Temple in Memphis, a civil rights landmark and site of

00:06:53.944 --> 00:06:59.184
Martin Luther King's last campaign, was severely damaged by fire during a restoration project.

00:06:59.664 --> 00:07:03.844
Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico increased to 729.

00:07:04.364 --> 00:07:07.264
And Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu, author

00:07:07.264 --> 00:07:11.844
and advocate for the education of Black youth, died at the age of 71.

00:07:12.304 --> 00:07:15.764
I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

00:07:16.880 --> 00:07:22.000
Music.

00:07:22.623 --> 00:07:25.943
All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.

00:07:26.183 --> 00:07:32.063
And now it is time for my guest, Julia Ismael.

00:07:32.983 --> 00:07:40.043
Julia Ismael is the founder and head architect of Aspirations of the Equity

00:07:40.043 --> 00:07:45.923
Consortium, whose two-word mission is to institutionalize equity.

00:07:46.923 --> 00:07:50.983
Yet the title Julia is most proud of is Mother of Three.

00:07:51.523 --> 00:07:57.423
Julia boldly finds joy in bringing the gift of equity to the world by standardizing

00:07:57.423 --> 00:08:02.723
workplace complaint systems and offering community-created equity assessments

00:08:02.723 --> 00:08:06.163
for organizations across size, field, and sector.

00:08:06.683 --> 00:08:11.743
Moreover, Julia finds satisfaction in providing equity advocates and practitioners

00:08:11.743 --> 00:08:16.683
with these very tools to help us all in our collective mission to rebalance

00:08:16.683 --> 00:08:22.043
power and enjoy financial security by providing a system of mutual support.

00:08:22.323 --> 00:08:25.963
She looks forward to the consortium's monthly listening circles,

00:08:26.143 --> 00:08:32.063
a place between work and home to share story, curiosity, and wisdom as a necessary

00:08:32.063 --> 00:08:34.103
space to plan our collective future.

00:08:34.443 --> 00:08:38.903
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:08:38.903 --> 00:08:42.543
on this podcast, Julia Ismael.

00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:52.720
Music.

00:08:52.923 --> 00:08:56.783
All right julia ismael how

00:08:56.783 --> 00:08:59.723
you doing sister you doing good so far so good i'd

00:08:59.723 --> 00:09:04.583
be it'd be hard to find something to complain about well i

00:09:04.583 --> 00:09:07.723
understand where you're coming from at least on my corner of the universe yeah

00:09:07.723 --> 00:09:12.803
yeah yeah you're in a good corner you're up there and in the great pacific Northwest

00:09:12.803 --> 00:09:18.003
Seattle been there a couple of times it's it's very nice up there I actually

00:09:18.003 --> 00:09:20.143
thought about trying to move up there once,

00:09:21.096 --> 00:09:25.676
Job didn't work out, but, you know, gave me a chance to hang around the city

00:09:25.676 --> 00:09:30.676
and get some of that Jones soda. Are you are you a soda drinker?

00:09:31.236 --> 00:09:35.936
Oh, yes. And Jones soda, it's one of our pride of Seattle.

00:09:36.176 --> 00:09:39.816
So, yes, absolutely. Yeah. You got a chance to at least see the area.

00:09:40.096 --> 00:09:43.796
Oh, yeah. I got to take a tour. So sad story about my Jones soda.

00:09:43.996 --> 00:09:46.356
So I got there, did the tour.

00:09:46.816 --> 00:09:50.276
They were trying out some sparkling water. I guess that didn't work out for him.

00:09:51.316 --> 00:09:59.376
So I got to sample that. And then I got a bottle of the Seahawks soda that they were selling.

00:09:59.736 --> 00:10:02.576
And I'm coming back and I get ready to get on the airplane.

00:10:03.876 --> 00:10:06.676
And the TSA guy says, what's this?

00:10:07.156 --> 00:10:11.416
I said, it's my souvenir from the Jones Soda Company.

00:10:11.576 --> 00:10:14.136
He said, yeah, well, that souvenir is going to stay with me.

00:10:14.296 --> 00:10:15.956
It's over three ounces. I was like, no.

00:10:16.636 --> 00:10:20.276
I said, you can't let that slide. And he said, no, brother, I got to hold on

00:10:20.276 --> 00:10:21.916
to it. I said, well, I hope you enjoy it.

00:10:22.936 --> 00:10:27.096
Yeah, I know everything. Oh, what a shame. I didn't get to drink it.

00:10:27.176 --> 00:10:29.416
But anyway, I hope that made that TSA guy happy.

00:10:30.036 --> 00:10:32.396
Oh, shoot. I went to give you for your birthday.

00:10:35.356 --> 00:10:40.316
So I do some other icebreakers. And you being a moderator by profession,

00:10:40.316 --> 00:10:44.276
you kind of understand that exercise. So I've got a couple for you.

00:10:45.376 --> 00:10:51.476
The first one is a quote. no matter how difficult learn to tell the truth what

00:10:51.476 --> 00:10:52.456
does that quote mean to you?

00:10:53.316 --> 00:10:56.796
Oh my goodness there is

00:10:56.796 --> 00:11:02.636
an absolute necessity for us especially people who have been the subject of

00:11:02.636 --> 00:11:15.076
harm it is a necessity that we learn how to speak our truth with grace and the the.

00:11:16.478 --> 00:11:20.818
The gift of truth, we have to begin to see it as a gift.

00:11:21.318 --> 00:11:24.738
Being able to tell the truth is a sign of love.

00:11:25.358 --> 00:11:30.198
Say, for example, you've got something in your teeth, right?

00:11:30.678 --> 00:11:34.658
And your friend says to you, oh, you have something in your teeth.

00:11:34.858 --> 00:11:36.198
This is telling you the truth.

00:11:36.398 --> 00:11:39.618
Even though it's difficult, it might be uncomfortable or awkward,

00:11:39.618 --> 00:11:46.298
and it's not an easy thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do, to tell the truth.

00:11:46.698 --> 00:11:54.698
And so we're learning how to tell truthful things and not only listen with grace,

00:11:54.698 --> 00:11:57.898
but to be able to speak it with grace as well.

00:11:58.098 --> 00:12:02.798
So, yeah, lovely quote. Tell me the quote one more time again because I liked it.

00:12:03.518 --> 00:12:07.418
No matter how difficult, learn to tell the truth.

00:12:07.998 --> 00:12:11.758
Yes. I think that's actually a quote that either you said or something.

00:12:11.838 --> 00:12:13.938
I found it on the website, I believe.

00:12:14.418 --> 00:12:17.598
I think that's something that you actually said.

00:12:18.438 --> 00:12:20.178
That's probably why it resonates.

00:12:23.198 --> 00:12:27.958
Thank you, Pastor Julia, for being so insightful. All right.

00:12:28.118 --> 00:12:33.518
So my next icebreaker is I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.

00:12:34.758 --> 00:12:41.598
17. Okay. What's something about people who see the world differently than you

00:12:41.598 --> 00:12:43.198
that you've come to appreciate?

00:12:44.115 --> 00:12:49.035
What is something about seeing the world differently that I've come to appreciate?

00:12:50.435 --> 00:12:55.595
Funny that you ask that in this time in my life. I just turned 48 years old

00:12:55.595 --> 00:12:58.055
and my mother passed away earlier this year.

00:12:58.255 --> 00:13:02.655
My youngest child is now graduating from high school.

00:13:02.655 --> 00:13:14.515
And what I'm realizing is the beauty in intergenerational thoughts.

00:13:14.875 --> 00:13:23.455
And as I'm transitioning from adulthood to baby elderhood, and I'm seeing my

00:13:23.455 --> 00:13:26.055
children go from child to young adult,

00:13:26.395 --> 00:13:31.675
there's an immense amount of learning that's happening on both ends to me.

00:13:31.675 --> 00:13:37.015
And so the perspectives of those who have come before me, those of my elders,

00:13:37.475 --> 00:13:42.355
and appreciating their perspective on life as it being different than mine,

00:13:42.415 --> 00:13:47.435
even in terms of how we plan for the future and how far in the future we plan

00:13:47.435 --> 00:13:50.035
is another perspective I'm learning.

00:13:50.035 --> 00:13:57.475
And to look at the young people who are growing in their agency based on a whole

00:13:57.475 --> 00:13:58.895
new perspective of life.

00:13:59.855 --> 00:14:07.295
The futurists, they make me very optimistic in their ability to see things from

00:14:07.295 --> 00:14:14.075
completely, absolutely new perspectives and question reality to degrees I have never,

00:14:14.295 --> 00:14:16.195
never seen before.

00:14:16.195 --> 00:14:24.795
And so my job right now and in the middle of these two differences is to simply

00:14:24.795 --> 00:14:29.855
remain open and excited about learning for the rest of my life.

00:14:30.275 --> 00:14:32.855
But yeah, lovely, lovely question again.

00:14:33.695 --> 00:14:40.455
So, and I pulled this from your website too. Why do you describe yourself as an odd bird? Yeah.

00:14:40.991 --> 00:14:50.811
I am an odd bird. I have self-declared this because I realized after the last

00:14:50.811 --> 00:14:52.771
kind of paycheck job that I had,

00:14:53.111 --> 00:14:59.111
wherein I was working for other people's mission, even though it was in alignment

00:14:59.111 --> 00:15:03.671
with my own mission, life mission, it wasn't exact.

00:15:03.671 --> 00:15:12.831
And what folks are willing to tolerate for the paycheck in return for being

00:15:12.831 --> 00:15:15.391
able to fulfill even a part of their life mission,

00:15:15.711 --> 00:15:24.071
what we're able to put up with and tolerate, I found myself at odds at so many

00:15:24.071 --> 00:15:29.971
instances where I just look up all of a sudden and I think, how are we able to say this?

00:15:30.291 --> 00:15:33.251
Why aren't the person who we're affecting, it's not in the room.

00:15:33.551 --> 00:15:35.771
Why do you think that this is fair?

00:15:36.151 --> 00:15:39.771
You know, how has this always been done like this? It's not working.

00:15:40.311 --> 00:15:45.051
And I've seen it through, you know, job positions, through volunteer positions.

00:15:45.671 --> 00:15:49.191
And five years ago, I thought, wow, if I apply for another job,

00:15:49.271 --> 00:15:52.371
I'm probably going to last about three or four months before they fire

00:15:52.371 --> 00:15:55.471
me because i'm so outside of the

00:15:55.471 --> 00:15:58.771
norm my my tolerance level is

00:15:58.771 --> 00:16:01.871
almost zero and i i have

00:16:01.871 --> 00:16:07.931
this need to kind of go back to your first question and around truth telling

00:16:07.931 --> 00:16:16.871
there is an insatiable need for me to speak the truth and i have made it my

00:16:16.871 --> 00:16:19.791
my mission to do so in the most gracious ways,

00:16:20.331 --> 00:16:21.951
but I didn't start out like that.

00:16:22.291 --> 00:16:25.951
And so I realized through all of these experience that.

00:16:26.642 --> 00:16:34.382
Yes, I'm odd. I'm odd. But to the point where now I'm discovering even,

00:16:34.862 --> 00:16:36.902
you know what, maybe it's not me.

00:16:37.262 --> 00:16:40.762
Maybe the rest of the world is odd and I'm the normal one.

00:16:40.762 --> 00:16:48.502
And so I have just decided to embrace that definition of myself and stop trying

00:16:48.502 --> 00:16:54.522
to fit myself into systems that were not designed for me and thinking it's my fault.

00:16:55.022 --> 00:16:57.942
And so that is my declaration of self-love.

00:16:58.962 --> 00:17:01.882
Well, I definitely can relate to that.

00:17:02.042 --> 00:17:08.042
I remember my dad telling me I was, you know, I've been fortunate to have some

00:17:08.042 --> 00:17:09.662
very distinctive positions.

00:17:10.362 --> 00:17:14.742
But in the regular work world, I've made a lot of transitions.

00:17:15.342 --> 00:17:20.002
And I remember, I guess I was either in my 40s, I guess I was in my 40s,

00:17:20.402 --> 00:17:26.162
and my dad kind of pulled me aside and he said, Erik, I need you to do something for me.

00:17:26.682 --> 00:17:32.362
I said, what do you need, sir? He said, I need you to go into this job not being

00:17:32.362 --> 00:17:34.122
the smartest person in the building.

00:17:34.822 --> 00:17:40.122
And I said, what do you mean? He said, He said, you have to understand that

00:17:40.122 --> 00:17:45.042
even though you might be better at the job than the person that hired you,

00:17:45.342 --> 00:17:52.682
you have to understand where you are and get situated and, you know,

00:17:52.802 --> 00:17:56.842
and work within the system and all that kind of stuff.

00:17:57.262 --> 00:18:00.142
He said, I shouldn't have to tell you that because you've been in politics,

00:18:00.142 --> 00:18:04.882
but, you know, sometimes, you know, you weren't exactly like,

00:18:05.102 --> 00:18:09.162
you know, what's the term I want to use? What did he say?

00:18:09.742 --> 00:18:13.282
You weren't exactly a follower, I think he said. When it came to politics,

00:18:13.282 --> 00:18:14.962
you were always kind of a maverick.

00:18:15.082 --> 00:18:18.422
And so, you know, with this job, this seems like a pretty good job.

00:18:18.582 --> 00:18:22.662
Maybe you want to kind of humble yourself a little bit. So I definitely understand

00:18:22.662 --> 00:18:27.182
where you're coming from as far as like when you see something and you know

00:18:27.182 --> 00:18:33.022
it's not right and you're trying to figure out a way to navigate that without being offensive,

00:18:33.562 --> 00:18:38.302
trying to be constructive and, you know, and really not trying to jeopardize your job.

00:18:38.582 --> 00:18:40.862
I definitely understand where you're coming from.

00:18:41.282 --> 00:18:47.662
All right. So you stated that your mission is to institutionalize equity. Yeah.

00:18:48.365 --> 00:18:54.185
How did your, and this is a quote from you, autodidactic degree in liberation

00:18:54.185 --> 00:19:00.165
of self and a diploma from the Secondary Community School of Hard Knocks and

00:19:00.165 --> 00:19:02.005
Love lead you to that mission?

00:19:03.585 --> 00:19:09.385
Oh, my goodness. Reading over my biography like this. Oh, my gosh.

00:19:09.945 --> 00:19:15.965
Yes. I am a firm believer in lifelong learning.

00:19:15.965 --> 00:19:23.745
And the fact that we can re-examine our relationship with how we transmit knowledge

00:19:23.745 --> 00:19:26.765
and from who and when and where and why.

00:19:27.565 --> 00:19:32.325
I do consider myself a graduate from the School of Hard Knocks.

00:19:32.525 --> 00:19:40.605
There is no paper degree to document and quantify that qualitative experience

00:19:40.605 --> 00:19:47.245
of living in this skin, living in this body, in this culture and society.

00:19:47.965 --> 00:19:53.865
So, for example, like I do actually, I have degrees from the universe,

00:19:53.865 --> 00:19:57.565
like a real paper going to debt level degree.

00:19:58.485 --> 00:20:01.785
But what they don't tell you as a person of color,

00:20:02.305 --> 00:20:07.765
as a person who's been actively marginalized and disenfranchised in this culture

00:20:07.765 --> 00:20:12.345
and society, what they don't tell you when you enter places of higher education

00:20:12.345 --> 00:20:14.845
Or even, you know, K through 12,

00:20:15.285 --> 00:20:25.145
there is an unseen expectation to add to the richness of the classroom, right?

00:20:25.285 --> 00:20:29.585
Because of your very identity, just of the body in which you were born.

00:20:30.285 --> 00:20:35.405
And so while I would register for the same classes, say like my white male colleague,

00:20:35.805 --> 00:20:37.725
we're not taking the same class.

00:20:38.005 --> 00:20:41.865
We have the same content, but we don't have the same directives.

00:20:42.345 --> 00:20:47.125
We don't have the same roles, and how are we contributing to the education of

00:20:47.125 --> 00:20:53.165
our peers, which is often done in careless and harmful ways.

00:20:53.445 --> 00:21:01.825
And so the unseen, the uncredited burden of educating simply for the fact that

00:21:01.825 --> 00:21:09.205
this is the body I was born into and the world needs what I know is often uncredited.

00:21:09.205 --> 00:21:14.745
So I just went ahead and gave myself credit for it. I said, I have done these things. I have...

00:21:17.154 --> 00:21:24.974
Gotten lived experience, in my opinion, to be 100% perfectly honest,

00:21:25.354 --> 00:21:32.054
is not something that should ever be diminished in value. If anything, it should be elevated.

00:21:32.774 --> 00:21:40.194
I was a paralegal, for example, for 12, 13 years before this iteration of equity advocacy.

00:21:40.514 --> 00:21:46.534
And I work in law offices right alongside law students who have just come out

00:21:46.534 --> 00:21:53.294
of law school and they know nothing about how the law office works,

00:21:53.634 --> 00:21:55.414
right? How clients work.

00:21:55.634 --> 00:22:02.314
They know theory and function and paperwork and process, but they don't understand the practice, right?

00:22:02.474 --> 00:22:07.094
And so there is something that cannot and shall never,

00:22:07.234 --> 00:22:10.014
ever be taught in a classroom when it's

00:22:10.014 --> 00:22:12.814
so dependent on you have to live it you have to

00:22:12.814 --> 00:22:15.634
experience it to understand it to be able

00:22:15.634 --> 00:22:20.174
to transmit what you've learned you have to experience the thing first and so

00:22:20.174 --> 00:22:25.594
that's that's where that uh self-description in my bio comes from in in relation

00:22:25.594 --> 00:22:35.154
to my education and how that manifests in my in how i um um gauge others' credentials.

00:22:35.514 --> 00:22:42.434
This is also a role that is a major factor in the way that I conduct my business.

00:22:43.374 --> 00:22:50.134
I do not rely on certificates and degrees alone to tell me how qualified this person is.

00:22:50.194 --> 00:22:53.234
My first question is, what is your lived experience?

00:22:53.654 --> 00:22:57.394
Everything after that will follow. And so, like, for example,

00:22:57.554 --> 00:23:01.734
anytime I do subcontracting work, my first question is, again,

00:23:02.054 --> 00:23:03.234
what is your lived experience?

00:23:03.534 --> 00:23:07.174
And my only second question, to confirm their qualifications.

00:23:07.294 --> 00:23:10.554
I don't even ask for degrees. I don't care.

00:23:10.914 --> 00:23:13.814
The second qualification is,

00:23:14.526 --> 00:23:18.986
Have you connected your lived experience to systems that are greater than yourself?

00:23:19.446 --> 00:23:24.226
And that's it. That is all I feel like a person needs to be qualified.

00:23:24.906 --> 00:23:29.646
Everything else, we can literally read books. We can go online.

00:23:29.646 --> 00:23:34.306
We can get all of the same class curriculum as any class in any university.

00:23:34.466 --> 00:23:36.066
We can do these learning.

00:23:36.626 --> 00:23:42.906
It is not dependent on a system that has kept us from knowledge and advancement.

00:23:42.926 --> 00:23:44.446
I'm not depending on them.

00:23:44.526 --> 00:23:46.966
To qualify people anymore.

00:23:47.666 --> 00:23:51.666
So, yeah. Great question. You're making me want to reread my bio again.

00:23:55.606 --> 00:24:00.726
I'm ready now, though. Yeah, you know, but it's like you're a very transparent

00:24:00.726 --> 00:24:02.246
person from what I've gathered.

00:24:02.446 --> 00:24:07.326
And so it's not surprising that you've been, you know, when you put down your

00:24:07.326 --> 00:24:12.106
life story, your bio, that you're very revealing in that.

00:24:12.106 --> 00:24:18.926
But, you know, and I was just thinking about when Kanye West first came on the

00:24:18.926 --> 00:24:21.166
scene, I guess the album was College Dropout.

00:24:21.686 --> 00:24:26.086
He had a lot of little interludes and there was this one, there was a constant

00:24:26.086 --> 00:24:32.086
theme in interlude where it was like the dad, I guess, or the gentleman,

00:24:32.086 --> 00:24:33.746
he was kind of following the interlude.

00:24:33.926 --> 00:24:37.026
He was going to school and getting all these degrees and all that stuff.

00:24:37.466 --> 00:24:41.726
And he ended up like on a park bench covered in his degrees.

00:24:42.106 --> 00:24:47.966
He couldn't function in society, but he was very, very educated according to the system, right?

00:24:48.226 --> 00:24:53.086
And that was the statement he was making that it's one thing to have the educational

00:24:53.086 --> 00:24:59.666
sense, but if you can't interact in life, which I think is ironic now considering who I'm talking about,

00:25:00.186 --> 00:25:05.446
if you can't interact in life, then all that paper doesn't matter.

00:25:05.566 --> 00:25:06.946
All that sheepskin doesn't matter.

00:25:08.575 --> 00:25:12.515
So for the past, no, no, here's the question I want to ask first.

00:25:12.655 --> 00:25:19.715
Is the American culture ready to purposefully focus our attention on new practices,

00:25:20.015 --> 00:25:25.715
policies, and procedures that encourage equity and eliminate the opportunity for biases?

00:25:26.375 --> 00:25:31.055
Are we ready? Are we ready for this? Yes, ma'am. I'm here.

00:25:34.115 --> 00:25:37.375
I'm at a place now erik where

00:25:37.375 --> 00:25:45.615
i don't care if they're ready or not we are and that that's that's the whole

00:25:45.615 --> 00:25:52.435
point and it is in this in this new era and it is so obviously to everybody

00:25:52.435 --> 00:25:55.115
a new era this is a new time.

00:25:55.515 --> 00:26:01.075
And we, when I say we, people who have been advocating for equity this whole

00:26:01.075 --> 00:26:05.875
time, the people are standing up saying, I told you so, I told you so, us.

00:26:06.395 --> 00:26:09.115
We've been preparing for this moment for a long time.

00:26:09.815 --> 00:26:13.355
Nothing that has happened recently is any surprise whatsoever.

00:26:13.615 --> 00:26:19.415
The pace, yes, the frenetic, urgent nature, yeah, maybe it's a little surprising.

00:26:19.975 --> 00:26:23.915
But these things have been in the works since the birth of America?

00:26:24.495 --> 00:26:29.015
And how are we preparing ourselves?

00:26:29.395 --> 00:26:37.455
My first objective in answering this question is to disengage from their interests.

00:26:38.595 --> 00:26:42.515
I have been advocating to my fellow equity advocates,

00:26:42.515 --> 00:26:45.455
the people who have actual titles that

00:26:45.455 --> 00:26:48.135
say diversity director this and i've been telling them for

00:26:48.135 --> 00:26:51.035
years watch out the watch out

00:26:51.035 --> 00:26:54.875
you are we are dependent on on

00:26:54.875 --> 00:26:58.435
fulfilling our our our mission our

00:26:58.435 --> 00:27:01.475
what we know and not even just our mind but

00:27:01.475 --> 00:27:04.395
our our gut our instinct our ancestors are

00:27:04.395 --> 00:27:10.855
begging us to do these things and and and we're being ignored and and we're

00:27:10.855 --> 00:27:15.495
still benefiting the organization because they get to check the box and say

00:27:15.495 --> 00:27:23.975
that they have us while we get to not be able to live in our work.

00:27:25.035 --> 00:27:30.555
And are we ready? No, they'll never be ready.

00:27:31.075 --> 00:27:36.835
That's the whole point. They will never be ready, but it's not up to them anymore

00:27:36.835 --> 00:27:38.395
because we weren't ready either.

00:27:38.855 --> 00:27:41.315
We were never ready for their plans for us.

00:27:41.855 --> 00:27:49.935
So it's either they plan or we plan and those are the only two options and when

00:27:49.935 --> 00:27:52.435
it comes to preparedness and

00:27:52.786 --> 00:28:00.326
I have seen this beautiful evolution in the work of equity advocacy over the last couple of decades.

00:28:00.686 --> 00:28:09.286
It began with, let me describe the problem to you so that it will stop.

00:28:09.886 --> 00:28:14.486
I'm going to have whole bodies of research.

00:28:15.006 --> 00:28:20.086
I'm going to have whole courses and degrees. I'm going to have literature in

00:28:20.086 --> 00:28:25.966
every format possible to describe to you what this harm is.

00:28:26.386 --> 00:28:30.206
This is a microaggression. This is institutional racism.

00:28:30.786 --> 00:28:36.226
And now we have appealed to the heart, to the mind, right?

00:28:36.886 --> 00:28:41.626
If you intellectually understand this, of course, your better angels will come

00:28:41.626 --> 00:28:44.286
and respond because nobody likes being a bad person.

00:28:44.986 --> 00:28:50.746
And that's true. I mean, we are good people. But it's not enough It's not enough

00:28:50.746 --> 00:28:56.486
to simply understand What fire is When it's burning your house down.

00:28:57.665 --> 00:29:02.325
I can understand all the things about, you know, the science of what it is,

00:29:02.445 --> 00:29:05.005
but it's not putting the fire out.

00:29:05.505 --> 00:29:13.325
And so here now we are in this beautiful position of, okay, we've answered what hurts.

00:29:13.565 --> 00:29:16.785
And we've done it down to the T.

00:29:17.005 --> 00:29:21.125
If you close your eyes and I pull a single hair anywhere on your body,

00:29:21.265 --> 00:29:24.045
you can tell me exactly what follicle it is.

00:29:24.245 --> 00:29:27.345
It is actually not that difficult.

00:29:27.665 --> 00:29:31.925
It's not that challenging to answer what hurts.

00:29:32.485 --> 00:29:38.365
What is most challenging is to answer what feels good, what works.

00:29:38.585 --> 00:29:42.525
And that's the question that we've been answering. Well, what's going to happen

00:29:42.525 --> 00:29:48.045
after all of this racism is out of the office and people are not homophobic?

00:29:48.045 --> 00:29:53.265
Okay, what does that look like? What has changed?

00:29:53.545 --> 00:29:57.265
What in your circumstances, environment is making that possible?

00:29:57.885 --> 00:30:04.245
So, for example, Malcolm Gladwell, the author, he's a sociologist who has a lot of great books.

00:30:04.565 --> 00:30:11.165
In one of his books, he mentions the medical surgery students.

00:30:11.165 --> 00:30:18.365
And in the course of their education, they are given a surgery operating theater

00:30:18.365 --> 00:30:21.405
where everything is, you can see it in your head already,

00:30:21.965 --> 00:30:27.425
everything is white, it's monochromatic, it is sterile, it is without texture,

00:30:27.425 --> 00:30:34.985
and it's for a very good reason because they need to focus on the subject, right?

00:30:34.985 --> 00:30:40.185
They have made an environment that is conducive to eliminate any distractions,

00:30:40.185 --> 00:30:42.965
to eliminate any emotional connection.

00:30:43.865 --> 00:30:48.485
So on the surgery, they will always, if they're able to, cover the face and

00:30:48.485 --> 00:30:49.685
they'll cover the hands.

00:30:50.365 --> 00:30:55.665
Because those are the most intimate parts of the place where we connect.

00:30:56.145 --> 00:31:01.645
And so they will focus on everything within that little area that they need

00:31:01.645 --> 00:31:03.505
to focus on. And then everything else disappears.

00:31:03.785 --> 00:31:06.325
And that's the environment that makes that conducive. It works.

00:31:06.665 --> 00:31:13.585
So we apply that same philosophy to areas where we want to encourage connection,

00:31:13.765 --> 00:31:15.485
where we want to encourage like this.

00:31:15.685 --> 00:31:20.405
And so if we don't change the environment, how are we expecting the content to change?

00:31:20.945 --> 00:31:30.525
Right? And so we have to address people's better angels, their positive ways

00:31:30.525 --> 00:31:32.705
we want to work. We have to give them the tools.

00:31:33.345 --> 00:31:37.885
It's not our fault that we inherit these bad systems. It's just not.

00:31:38.025 --> 00:31:41.465
We need to stop taking responsibility for that. They came before us.

00:31:41.985 --> 00:31:45.825
Even if I make my own business, I'm inheriting just models that I've learned.

00:31:46.705 --> 00:31:52.225
So we have to, first of all, disassociate and say, this is not my system.

00:31:53.155 --> 00:31:57.415
Right. This is something I was given. I've done my best with it, but it's not for me.

00:31:57.795 --> 00:32:02.175
And it doesn't matter what body I was born into. It's not for me. It doesn't feel good.

00:32:02.755 --> 00:32:11.515
And so to be able to simply give somebody the tools to paint the room a pretty color,

00:32:11.735 --> 00:32:16.195
like going back to the surgery analogy, like what tool do you need to change

00:32:16.195 --> 00:32:18.695
your environment so that you can go back to normal?

00:32:18.695 --> 00:32:22.935
Right so that you can feel like you're matching

00:32:22.935 --> 00:32:26.275
the the environment right you're not sticking out

00:32:26.275 --> 00:32:29.195
right like this and so that's why we focused

00:32:29.195 --> 00:32:32.755
on systems and after uh doing

00:32:32.755 --> 00:32:36.575
evaluations i had a really beautiful i have a really beautiful service for that

00:32:36.575 --> 00:32:41.815
too but the the results were you need complaint systems and thinking about my

00:32:41.815 --> 00:32:47.155
own personal experience yeah duh i don't know like It took me years to come

00:32:47.155 --> 00:32:50.495
back to something that to me now seems so obvious,

00:32:50.515 --> 00:32:56.815
but I think it's because contemplating introducing a whole new justice system

00:32:56.815 --> 00:33:02.835
is so unbelievably daunting and so far outside of any one organization's mission.

00:33:03.395 --> 00:33:08.435
I can see why it has just been kind of kicked down the road, you know?

00:33:09.115 --> 00:33:12.915
So we just said, okay, we're going to stop. We're going to pause everything

00:33:12.915 --> 00:33:18.875
that we're doing. And we, the equity consortium, we are going to make that our mission.

00:33:19.455 --> 00:33:22.355
And so, yeah, I can see why. It took over a year and a half,

00:33:22.775 --> 00:33:27.775
dozens of people involved, and I don't know, probably 2,000 hours so far.

00:33:27.915 --> 00:33:30.235
So it's like, yeah, it's no small task.

00:33:30.495 --> 00:33:35.975
And to be able to kind of build that bridge between the past of what we know

00:33:35.975 --> 00:33:39.215
we don't need and the future of what we do need, but I don't know how to get there.

00:33:39.215 --> 00:33:46.495
That's where we have just dedicated ourselves to making that happen and because we deserve it.

00:33:47.889 --> 00:33:50.909
We're so smart and we deserve it. It's our time to plan.

00:33:52.269 --> 00:33:58.029
So as a follow up for the past hundred days, the Trump administration has done

00:33:58.029 --> 00:34:00.509
their best to end D.E.I.A.

00:34:00.569 --> 00:34:03.369
And quote unquote world culture. How much.

00:34:04.669 --> 00:34:10.169
Excuse me. How much damage has been done or is it too early to assess?

00:34:12.889 --> 00:34:17.329
I, I, I'm kind of answer with both. Yes.

00:34:18.289 --> 00:34:25.709
There has been damage done already, and it's still too early to assess the depth of it.

00:34:26.289 --> 00:34:29.509
Yes. Oh, gosh, where to begin?

00:34:30.709 --> 00:34:36.669
What concerns me the most in all of these most recent actions is not actually

00:34:36.669 --> 00:34:39.849
the immediate impact. It's the lasting impact.

00:34:40.489 --> 00:34:45.869
The one thing that keeps me up at night, I mean, of all the thousand things

00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:54.109
to choose from, You might find this one really odd, but our museums, our legacy,

00:34:54.669 --> 00:35:03.069
our connection to objective history is being systemically erased.

00:35:03.489 --> 00:35:11.089
And the responsibility to document our history as humans, as humanity,

00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:16.029
in this great experiment of America is being erased.

00:35:18.689 --> 00:35:23.269
And, like, women in STEM on NASA's website,

00:35:23.669 --> 00:35:28.629
the individual who was, you know, named and put the picture,

00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:34.989
that woman, she has her record of her being there in screenshots and whatnot, but where does it go?

00:35:36.070 --> 00:35:41.710
And are we ever able to get that back? And that's just our digital footprint.

00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:47.430
I'm concerned about our physical, historical records.

00:35:49.530 --> 00:35:58.070
It's just having ancestors who were enslaved and knowing how traumatic it and

00:35:58.070 --> 00:36:03.650
how many generations it takes to reclaim one's history and connection to it.

00:36:03.650 --> 00:36:06.470
To me, that is the most traumatic event.

00:36:07.050 --> 00:36:11.110
Everything else they're doing, I literally don't care. I saw it coming.

00:36:11.290 --> 00:36:18.550
I have never depended on them for self-validation, for even a livelihood.

00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:29.310
And I'm very sorry to all of the people who have trusted in this system when

00:36:29.310 --> 00:36:34.610
they give them titles of diversity and that they have trusted in this system

00:36:34.610 --> 00:36:37.890
to protect them when it has never been true.

00:36:37.890 --> 00:36:41.310
And another interesting thing, though, that has been happening,

00:36:41.490 --> 00:36:50.350
and I am rooting for it 100%, I love it, is that there is a natural sifting going on here.

00:36:50.570 --> 00:36:56.530
There is an obvious call from organizations

00:36:56.530 --> 00:37:01.250
who are doubling down on their commitment to diversity, equity.

00:37:01.390 --> 00:37:06.190
Those are the people we're learning who to support and who to ignore.

00:37:06.190 --> 00:37:09.850
You know like Costco and target.

00:37:11.017 --> 00:37:14.537
Perfect example. Like, where are we powerful?

00:37:15.297 --> 00:37:22.297
And this is something that I'm just in love with and terrified of at the same time.

00:37:22.837 --> 00:37:26.137
Like, I wake up, like, recently, like, the last three or four days,

00:37:26.237 --> 00:37:29.937
I've just been waking up thinking, what's stopping us?

00:37:30.657 --> 00:37:34.617
You know, this whole system is predicated on

00:37:34.617 --> 00:37:38.817
the belief that people will naturally want

00:37:38.817 --> 00:37:41.837
to follow rules they're going to

00:37:41.837 --> 00:37:44.837
buy their get their tabs renewed they're going to

00:37:44.837 --> 00:37:47.937
pay their mortgage they're going to follow all the

00:37:47.937 --> 00:37:51.377
rules because that's the social contract

00:37:51.377 --> 00:37:54.497
if i follow the rules then i'm guaranteed you know

00:37:54.497 --> 00:37:57.957
justice and safety and free like this right there

00:37:57.957 --> 00:38:02.837
was an exchange there but we're realizing very concrete

00:38:02.837 --> 00:38:05.997
tangible in your face this contract

00:38:05.997 --> 00:38:09.237
is broken i have given everything

00:38:09.237 --> 00:38:12.017
i have done everything i'm supposed to and this is what

00:38:12.017 --> 00:38:21.177
you're doing in return what's to stop us and so i i get giddy i get super giggly

00:38:21.177 --> 00:38:27.637
and then i also get like oh maybe i shouldn't be giggling so loud because what

00:38:27.637 --> 00:38:30.197
I'm thinking, what I'm seeing,

00:38:30.437 --> 00:38:32.997
I can see it. I can feel it.

00:38:33.137 --> 00:38:35.497
It's about to pop off.

00:38:35.757 --> 00:38:39.837
It's about to pop off because you can push somebody so far.

00:38:41.097 --> 00:38:47.397
And it's a lovely thing about human nature is that there's a phenomenon called

00:38:47.397 --> 00:38:48.977
default to belief, right?

00:38:49.397 --> 00:38:55.117
We look for any and every reason to want to believe somebody's telling the truth.

00:38:55.117 --> 00:39:00.877
This is what keeps us alive This is what keeps us in community This is what

00:39:00.877 --> 00:39:03.577
keeps us together and bound To each other's fate.

00:39:04.715 --> 00:39:10.215
People who are trained to default to disbelief are police officers, right?

00:39:10.355 --> 00:39:16.275
A police officer will ask you where you're going and assume that you're lying, right?

00:39:16.615 --> 00:39:18.795
Ask you where you're coming from, assume that you're lying.

00:39:19.595 --> 00:39:26.495
But us, when we are defaulting to believing in this system, it takes,

00:39:26.495 --> 00:39:31.955
I don't know how many times to prove that somebody's lying to your face.

00:39:32.315 --> 00:39:37.075
They're lying to you. They don't care about your grocery bill.

00:39:37.255 --> 00:39:41.475
They don't care about your mortgage or your student loan. They don't.

00:39:41.655 --> 00:39:45.695
But how many times does it take to be convinced, right?

00:39:45.875 --> 00:39:52.295
And that's where we are. We're finally being convinced that we're being lied to.

00:39:52.615 --> 00:39:59.555
And that's a bad feeling. And it sucks. It sucks. It feels like I've been duped.

00:40:00.155 --> 00:40:03.915
I've been played for a fool, you know? And they blinded me, like,

00:40:03.975 --> 00:40:05.855
this makes me mad, right?

00:40:05.975 --> 00:40:08.755
And so, like, this is a moment of reckoning.

00:40:08.995 --> 00:40:16.835
And my one and only job on this planet is to make sure that we are prepared for the day after.

00:40:17.575 --> 00:40:23.275
We recognize that they're lying. We have to build our truth. The meanwhile.

00:40:26.135 --> 00:40:34.795
And I'm Muslim, right? And so I have this beautiful faith that says Allah is

00:40:34.795 --> 00:40:37.315
the best of all planners, right?

00:40:37.475 --> 00:40:42.115
And so my job as an individual, as one single soul on this planet,

00:40:42.135 --> 00:40:48.535
is to simply recognize and understand my part in a story that is greater than mine.

00:40:48.815 --> 00:40:51.995
My own time, my own place.

00:40:52.295 --> 00:40:54.495
This story spans millennia.

00:40:55.355 --> 00:40:58.735
And we're just in a little part of it right now, doing our little part.

00:40:58.995 --> 00:41:09.155
But it is inviting growth with compassion because it's our right to do so.

00:41:09.555 --> 00:41:16.195
And I'm never letting anybody ever again steal my magic. They can have it. I give it freely.

00:41:16.575 --> 00:41:20.195
But they can't steal it from me anymore. It's a distraction.

00:41:20.335 --> 00:41:23.175
And I'm tired. I don't have any more room for distraction.

00:41:23.655 --> 00:41:27.475
And so, yeah, great question. Definitely a question of our time.

00:41:27.615 --> 00:41:31.115
So ask me again in like 10 years, and I wonder what the answer is.

00:41:31.955 --> 00:41:35.015
All right. Hopefully it won't take that long to get you back on the show,

00:41:35.115 --> 00:41:39.935
but okay. Oh, yeah. No, let's hope not. All right. So I'm going to...

00:41:40.608 --> 00:41:44.768
So I'm going to ask you this question, and then I'm going to close out because

00:41:44.768 --> 00:41:47.768
I had a couple more, and I'm going to figure out a way to combine them.

00:41:47.868 --> 00:41:52.608
But the next question I want to ask you is, why are you not a big fan of the

00:41:52.608 --> 00:41:59.928
phrases, thoughts and prayers, we condemn, we stand with, or our hearts go out to?

00:42:00.648 --> 00:42:04.728
Oh, you read my how to write a statement on Palestine, huh?

00:42:05.128 --> 00:42:10.008
Yes, ma'am. That's what it sounds like it came from. Yes. I'm all about that action boss.

00:42:10.208 --> 00:42:17.288
Coming here from in Seattle, we have a phrase about that action boss because

00:42:17.288 --> 00:42:20.028
I cannot stand it. I can't stand it.

00:42:20.548 --> 00:42:30.168
It is language like that that allows the status quo to continue. It is placating.

00:42:30.468 --> 00:42:35.688
I've heard it described as like masturbatory language, excuse my language,

00:42:35.868 --> 00:42:41.408
but it serves to self-satisfy and it does nothing to the recipient.

00:42:41.408 --> 00:42:45.028
I don't need thoughts and prayers. I need money and time off.

00:42:45.348 --> 00:42:49.308
I need tangible things and tools.

00:42:49.628 --> 00:42:58.728
And this is where I'm really finding a growing role in this emerging society

00:42:58.728 --> 00:43:01.408
for people of a spiritual base.

00:43:01.708 --> 00:43:07.968
Now, this might not seem connected at first, but as people who have been most

00:43:07.968 --> 00:43:12.168
affected by harm, we are not victims.

00:43:12.848 --> 00:43:20.848
We are students of life, and we have graduated from those learning, right?

00:43:21.768 --> 00:43:27.928
Our experience of, oh, I don't even know how to put words on it.

00:43:28.068 --> 00:43:36.608
There's this gut feeling of absolute injustice where you feel voiceless and

00:43:36.608 --> 00:43:43.408
powerless and people are actively dissuading you from believing that you feel like that.

00:43:43.408 --> 00:43:47.768
There's no way to...

00:43:49.502 --> 00:43:55.442
Teach this experience. And if there was, I wouldn't want to do it.

00:43:55.722 --> 00:43:59.982
I don't want people who have never experienced that to ever have to experience

00:43:59.982 --> 00:44:08.022
that kind of anguish of abject injustice, of moral, of spiritual injustice, right?

00:44:08.242 --> 00:44:12.782
That it affects even your health and who you are as a person.

00:44:13.682 --> 00:44:19.302
There's no way to quantify the value in that learning.

00:44:19.502 --> 00:44:26.782
The humility that comes with that type of experience, the empathy,

00:44:27.202 --> 00:44:31.682
the ability to empathize with someone else going through something similar, right?

00:44:31.942 --> 00:44:38.882
Those are to be skills that are going to be highly elevated in the future.

00:44:39.662 --> 00:44:43.482
We have to be led by people who have been most affected.

00:44:43.482 --> 00:44:50.302
It is our right. And in exchange for that gift of our learning and of our experience,

00:44:50.302 --> 00:44:55.022
of our sacrifice, in exchange, we need resources.

00:44:56.242 --> 00:45:00.622
So we need power. We need money.

00:45:01.102 --> 00:45:04.282
That's the exchange. I don't need thoughts and prayers.

00:45:04.482 --> 00:45:10.262
I don't care about their intentions. I need concrete exchange.

00:45:11.062 --> 00:45:17.002
We need to rewrite the social contract in exchange for my experience and expertise

00:45:17.002 --> 00:45:18.442
and compassion and wisdom.

00:45:19.812 --> 00:45:25.952
I will receive your resources because we can't have one without the other.

00:45:26.352 --> 00:45:30.072
We are dependent on each other at this point in time.

00:45:30.492 --> 00:45:33.712
They have resources. We have knowledge, right?

00:45:34.112 --> 00:45:37.352
Brains and muscle, brawn like this, right?

00:45:37.352 --> 00:45:46.332
And that is back to the fact of, I'm not waiting for somebody to give me power,

00:45:46.712 --> 00:45:53.092
to invite me to the table, to include me in their whatevers. I have my own.

00:45:53.492 --> 00:46:00.712
They can come to me, right? And then look, we are so clever.

00:46:00.732 --> 00:46:05.512
We have survived and sustained for so long with less than nothing.

00:46:05.512 --> 00:46:08.912
I don't actually even need their things.

00:46:09.212 --> 00:46:13.952
I don't need their resources. We have resources.

00:46:13.952 --> 00:46:18.852
I hope you watch Sinners When

00:46:18.852 --> 00:46:21.912
you see it Pay attention

00:46:21.912 --> 00:46:25.892
to the economy Of the

00:46:25.892 --> 00:46:33.232
sharecropping plantation We had our own currency We had wooden nickels Because

00:46:33.232 --> 00:46:39.872
of the discrepancy Between what is earned and what is owed It's built in We

00:46:39.872 --> 00:46:44.692
had to accommodate for the discrepancy and we created our own currency.

00:46:45.172 --> 00:46:52.672
We don't need their resources. It is simply us and our infinitely gracious,

00:46:53.052 --> 00:46:58.692
soulful selves offering the rest of the world their humanity back.

00:46:59.912 --> 00:47:02.932
And Martin Luther King said a lot of super wise things.

00:47:03.072 --> 00:47:06.892
And one of the things he said was, we're in a position to restore the humanity

00:47:06.892 --> 00:47:10.072
of those who have oppressed us.

00:47:10.892 --> 00:47:16.392
Right? That is a power dynamic flip. I am so down for every last inch of it

00:47:16.392 --> 00:47:20.672
because it feels right. It feels true.

00:47:20.932 --> 00:47:26.592
It feels like divine or moral, spiritual level of justice. Right.

00:47:27.372 --> 00:47:31.232
We, once those who have been affected by harm,

00:47:31.552 --> 00:47:37.592
who have had the time and place to heal and to come together and plan for the

00:47:37.592 --> 00:47:42.492
benefit of the whole, we absolutely deserve our time to shine.

00:47:42.852 --> 00:47:47.052
And so does the rest of the world, because I will tell you, hands down,

00:47:47.312 --> 00:47:52.732
maybe one percent, two percent of our human humanity is just sociopathic.

00:47:52.732 --> 00:47:54.412
There's no fixing them, right?

00:47:55.132 --> 00:47:58.872
But I tell you, the rest of us, not a single one of us is not suffering.

00:47:59.112 --> 00:48:02.012
We're all suffering. White people are suffering.

00:48:03.429 --> 00:48:08.769
All of us are suffering. Them on a spiritual, ethical, moral element level,

00:48:08.929 --> 00:48:11.269
us on a resource, you know, worldly level.

00:48:11.909 --> 00:48:14.709
But each of us have what the other one needs.

00:48:15.749 --> 00:48:23.589
And I have made it a point since my day one to invite anyone and everyone, right?

00:48:23.729 --> 00:48:28.869
I don't have groups for, you know, this one's for people of color and this one's for white people.

00:48:29.009 --> 00:48:32.009
No, we're human beings. and we

00:48:32.009 --> 00:48:38.169
have to begin to practice seeing each other as humans first and then recognizing

00:48:38.169 --> 00:48:43.169
our unique healing journeys because white people need a lot of healing too and

00:48:43.169 --> 00:48:49.229
I do not envy them for their to-do list because mine's just like I'm healing from resource stuff.

00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:54.069
It's worldly stuff. But spiritual healing, that's hard.

00:48:54.509 --> 00:48:59.969
And I don't have nothing to say. That's on them. That's their job. I can't even help.

00:49:00.709 --> 00:49:05.869
That's their task. I'm like, my task is to deal with, you know, resource like this.

00:49:06.049 --> 00:49:10.769
So, yeah, hearts and minds, good intentions, thoughts and prayers. I got, yeah.

00:49:12.069 --> 00:49:17.109
No, I need action. Yes. So, yeah, great question. Well, you just,

00:49:17.229 --> 00:49:19.529
you're digging all the way deep on the website.

00:49:20.009 --> 00:49:25.949
Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I try to, because I really want people to know the

00:49:25.949 --> 00:49:32.529
guests that I have on. And so I think you answered the concept of what I wanted

00:49:32.529 --> 00:49:33.809
to make the final question.

00:49:35.108 --> 00:49:38.748
Because you talked about one of the things I wanted to ask you was dealing with

00:49:38.748 --> 00:49:42.108
government and then one was with the equity consortium.

00:49:42.448 --> 00:49:48.848
And so gathered from that last statement, I would say that there's two power dynamics.

00:49:49.368 --> 00:49:57.388
Right. So government has a power dynamic as far as money and resources and policy,

00:49:57.628 --> 00:50:02.968
whereas the equity consortium has a power dynamic of knowledge.

00:50:02.968 --> 00:50:08.228
Because we understand that knowledge is power and that through that knowledge,

00:50:08.408 --> 00:50:12.308
you can generate, you can be innovative in creating resources.

00:50:12.308 --> 00:50:18.048
So I guess the way I want to close it out is,

00:50:18.308 --> 00:50:29.068
do you feel that it's more important for the equity consortium to do the work

00:50:29.068 --> 00:50:33.748
as opposed to waiting for the government to catch up?

00:50:34.808 --> 00:50:43.508
Yes, we have to take initiative. We're no longer waiting for permission to begin or continue.

00:50:44.228 --> 00:50:48.428
For the last couple of years, the Equity Consortium, we focused on resolution

00:50:48.428 --> 00:50:50.368
systems, formerly known complaint systems.

00:50:51.268 --> 00:50:57.228
And this is a perfect example of, to answer your question, as to recognizing

00:50:57.228 --> 00:51:03.848
the balance or the line between or the relationship between institutional support

00:51:03.848 --> 00:51:05.148
and change and leadership.

00:51:05.148 --> 00:51:09.308
And those from what I consider like grassroots, like the people most affected, right?

00:51:10.108 --> 00:51:13.708
Let me illustrate it with the resolution system.

00:51:14.428 --> 00:51:20.228
Government support, institutional involvement comes at a very specific point

00:51:20.228 --> 00:51:24.848
in a person's harmed experience, right?

00:51:24.948 --> 00:51:29.488
So let's say, for example, I'm at work and I'm experiencing discrimination and

00:51:29.488 --> 00:51:33.348
harassment and my boss is really being a bully and I'm having a lot of health issues, right?

00:51:35.072 --> 00:51:42.692
There are the first opportunity to resolve this is within the organization,

00:51:43.192 --> 00:51:47.212
within the institution itself.

00:51:48.072 --> 00:51:55.272
This is, in this kind of metaphor situation, this in this scale is like grassroots.

00:51:55.452 --> 00:52:00.812
This is people, people-powered. It's still in the people-powered part of our world, right?

00:52:00.892 --> 00:52:05.092
It has nothing to do with laws, government like this. Because people are powering

00:52:05.092 --> 00:52:12.272
this willy-nilly, like, Wild West resolution systems that are super basic,

00:52:12.292 --> 00:52:15.672
like, contact your supervisor, because that's all we know how to do, right?

00:52:15.772 --> 00:52:18.812
It's just people working with other people, working with people, people.

00:52:20.272 --> 00:52:24.272
Between that and, okay, well, that's not working.

00:52:24.692 --> 00:52:30.232
What's my, what's another, what's the next step, right? Then we go to say,

00:52:30.392 --> 00:52:33.772
okay, how is the system going to help me solve this?

00:52:33.832 --> 00:52:35.292
How are the institutions, how is

00:52:35.292 --> 00:52:40.872
the justice system, how are all of these agencies going to help me, right?

00:52:41.912 --> 00:52:46.852
You can file a claim with these institutions.

00:52:47.252 --> 00:52:53.332
And we know, because there are statistics and research, you're most likely not going to prevail.

00:52:53.332 --> 00:53:00.512
There's a 95% fail rate for the EEOC, for example, and the 5% that do prevail,

00:53:00.832 --> 00:53:05.732
their average payout is $3,500, and it takes five years.

00:53:06.232 --> 00:53:09.872
And they don't give you a lawyer. You have to get your own lawyer.

00:53:10.812 --> 00:53:17.772
That's with the EEOC. If that doesn't work, then you are able to file with a

00:53:17.772 --> 00:53:24.512
civil claim, right? Get a case number, jury duty like this, which takes another five years.

00:53:24.712 --> 00:53:29.152
And now you've probably left your job and wanting to move on with your life like this.

00:53:29.252 --> 00:53:38.752
And so that's how far apart people are and the system that's supposed to serve us.

00:53:39.790 --> 00:53:44.890
And so I'm not waiting for the system to come to the middle and say,

00:53:45.030 --> 00:53:47.950
oh, there's this big wasteland of justice here going on.

00:53:48.370 --> 00:53:53.450
We can fix it and institute it. And I'm not waiting for the organization to

00:53:53.450 --> 00:53:57.350
be able to put their own mission aside and work on a resolution system for a

00:53:57.350 --> 00:54:00.310
year and a half and say, okay, here, we can do it like this.

00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:09.290
And so that's why we're not expecting either of these extremes to initiate the bridge in between.

00:54:09.790 --> 00:54:12.350
It's neither of their jobs or their nature.

00:54:13.190 --> 00:54:18.590
And especially those who have caused the problem, have created systems that

00:54:18.590 --> 00:54:24.210
are harmful, maybe ought not be responsible for creating systems that are to replace it and fix it.

00:54:24.550 --> 00:54:30.670
So at some point, we had to untie the Gordian Knot. We had to say, okay, everybody stop.

00:54:31.010 --> 00:54:39.730
We're going to step in this one time, address this void, And then we're going

00:54:39.730 --> 00:54:43.250
to go back to our regular scheduled program like this.

00:54:43.950 --> 00:54:53.170
And so there is potential in this, in having systems on the institutional,

00:54:53.550 --> 00:55:01.790
the societal side that actually do reflect what is needed from the people who are affected.

00:55:02.170 --> 00:55:06.910
And it is a process. It is a slow and deliberate,

00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:11.030
try this, oh, that doesn't work, let me try it another way, and that doesn't

00:55:11.030 --> 00:55:18.110
work, because it needs to be like that for it to be sustainable for generations.

00:55:18.110 --> 00:55:25.550
I don't mind taking five, maybe 10 years to perfect a system before introducing

00:55:25.550 --> 00:55:29.290
it to the institutional, statewide, federal level.

00:55:29.290 --> 00:55:34.750
We should have the confidence to know that it works in the ways that we intended

00:55:34.750 --> 00:55:38.490
it to work. And so I don't mind going slow.

00:55:38.730 --> 00:55:48.990
I'm actively reconnecting with natural timing of the world, of life,

00:55:49.390 --> 00:55:53.170
of the cycles of creation and destruction. It's fine.

00:55:53.570 --> 00:56:02.490
I'd rather have a perfect product. Perfect. I can't settle for 99% anymore Because

00:56:02.490 --> 00:56:06.230
that 1% you think doesn't matter today 10 years from now.

00:56:07.292 --> 00:56:12.112
It's going to matter. And so I will not move forward with anything until I'm

00:56:12.112 --> 00:56:16.672
100%. And that's our right to do so. We deserved it and we earned it.

00:56:17.032 --> 00:56:23.392
And so I'm starting, for example, with a bridge building between people to people.

00:56:23.592 --> 00:56:24.612
And this is the institution.

00:56:26.032 --> 00:56:33.992
I'm starting gently. We have to be gentle. There has to be the promise of and

00:56:33.992 --> 00:56:39.152
the ability to produce mutual benefit at every single turn.

00:56:39.972 --> 00:56:44.252
And so thinking about like, okay, the complaint system, resolution system, we've been at odds.

00:56:44.512 --> 00:56:48.612
Like people have been affected and the administration, we've been on opposite

00:56:48.612 --> 00:56:55.912
sides when we don't have to be this whole time because nobody likes harassment at work.

00:56:56.652 --> 00:57:00.752
Administrators don't like it. Employees don't like it. So we turn and we say,

00:57:00.872 --> 00:57:05.592
okay, we're going to fight this together because it's mutual benefit, mutual interest.

00:57:05.772 --> 00:57:08.092
I don't want to lose my job. You don't want to lose an employee.

00:57:08.712 --> 00:57:13.312
And so we figure out, okay, what is the language that we both understand and can agree with?

00:57:13.312 --> 00:57:23.012
And so this is just one of the steps that I see towards a future of totally

00:57:23.012 --> 00:57:25.912
redefining the employee-employer relationship.

00:57:25.912 --> 00:57:34.192
And it's based on that new role that, you know, government and that even like

00:57:34.192 --> 00:57:37.672
your boss plays in your personal life.

00:57:37.672 --> 00:57:45.072
And this is just one of the most obvious areas to focus first is how do we deal

00:57:45.072 --> 00:57:47.772
with complaints and conflict? It's not if, it's when.

00:57:48.052 --> 00:57:59.672
And so that's why we decided to focus there on our way to bring the past into the future. Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:01.052 --> 00:58:04.712
Wrong answer. No, no, no. But that's great. That's great. All right.

00:58:04.872 --> 00:58:10.392
So if people want to get more of this wisdom from you and the equity consortium,

00:58:10.572 --> 00:58:14.072
how can they get in touch with you? How can they get in touch with the consortium?

00:58:14.552 --> 00:58:16.312
Go ahead and give that plug.

00:58:17.192 --> 00:58:22.692
Wonderful. Thank you. I live for having conversations with absolutely no agenda.

00:58:23.172 --> 00:58:27.672
Our mission is not only to institutionalize equity. We are also a home for equity

00:58:27.672 --> 00:58:32.752
advocates. And no matter what position you are, whether it's official or unofficial,

00:58:33.072 --> 00:58:37.832
in your quest to institutionalize equity, we are here for all of that.

00:58:38.032 --> 00:58:42.352
And you can find us at theequityconsortium.com.

00:58:42.572 --> 00:58:45.932
There's ample information about our services and what we offer.

00:58:46.212 --> 00:58:48.472
We have an upcoming...

00:58:49.855 --> 00:58:53.835
Learning space, a repeat of what you were able to attend last time, Eric.

00:58:54.215 --> 00:59:00.175
It is two days where we share literally anything and everything we know about complaint systems.

00:59:00.475 --> 00:59:05.215
The date is June 2nd and 3rd, I believe, but it is on our website.

00:59:05.295 --> 00:59:06.195
It will be on our website.

00:59:06.335 --> 00:59:09.835
We're updating it today and we'd love to see you there.

00:59:09.895 --> 00:59:16.295
And we've actually added a third day for this time in June, And it's specifically for consultants.

00:59:16.755 --> 00:59:21.575
And so we do work with consultants. We are not selfish with our product.

00:59:21.835 --> 00:59:25.195
Our mission is to institutionalize equity.

00:59:25.195 --> 00:59:33.175
That means far and wide. And so we have a new program for equity consultants

00:59:33.175 --> 00:59:38.435
who are interested in incorporating our complaint system into their existing

00:59:38.435 --> 00:59:40.295
work, either in whole or in part.

00:59:40.295 --> 00:59:46.035
We also have new opportunities to subcontract out parts of our work with our

00:59:46.035 --> 00:59:50.055
clients because we love paying people.

00:59:50.295 --> 00:59:54.155
We just love it. Over the five years that we've been in business,

00:59:54.335 --> 00:59:56.355
we have contracted, subcontracted out,

00:59:56.675 --> 01:00:02.675
worked to over three dozen of our colleagues, and we love to pay $200 an hour

01:00:02.675 --> 01:00:08.035
because we feel like that is a livable wage that is commiserate with your skill and expertise.

01:00:08.035 --> 01:00:10.335
Having lived through all of this.

01:00:10.735 --> 01:00:16.675
And so we look forward to knowing what you're up to, how we can support you.

01:00:16.795 --> 01:00:20.715
And we'd also love to see you at one of our monthly listening circles.

01:00:20.715 --> 01:00:23.415
There's been tradition for the last five years.

01:00:23.635 --> 01:00:31.935
We meet every last Tuesday of the month for two and a half hours online to answer a single question.

01:00:32.135 --> 01:00:35.715
For example, a question we've had in the past, and I think it's kind of relevant

01:00:35.715 --> 01:00:38.795
to our conversation today because I had thought about it earlier.

01:00:39.925 --> 01:00:42.845
Was where does love and power intersect in your

01:00:42.845 --> 01:00:45.645
life and so we we take a question

01:00:45.645 --> 01:00:49.125
like this and we just listen to everybody in

01:00:49.125 --> 01:00:52.305
turn without fear of interruption their beautiful

01:00:52.305 --> 01:00:57.605
answer and in this way i have learned immense immensely more than i've ever

01:00:57.605 --> 01:01:03.525
learned in my degree it has informed all of our services and our products and

01:01:03.525 --> 01:01:09.185
it is it's an invaluable source you are life and i would love to meet with you,

01:01:09.365 --> 01:01:12.925
learn your thoughts about the future, and see what we can build together.

01:01:13.125 --> 01:01:19.085
So, Erik, thank you so much for the wonderful questions, for your patience and the timing of today.

01:01:19.285 --> 01:01:22.885
And I really do look forward to hearing more from you.

01:01:23.345 --> 01:01:29.265
Yeah. Well, Julia Ismael, it's been an honor to have you on more than just your

01:01:29.265 --> 01:01:34.945
presence, but the spirit that you've emanated through these audio waves.

01:01:35.545 --> 01:01:42.385
And I wish you much continued success in the work that you're doing with the Equity Consortium.

01:01:42.745 --> 01:01:46.745
And as always, I tell guests, you have an open invitation to come back,

01:01:46.865 --> 01:01:49.745
so I'm burning your chest. Say, look, Erik, I need to talk about this.

01:01:50.145 --> 01:01:54.665
Just feel free to reach out and we'll get you on. So I'm glad that we were able

01:01:54.665 --> 01:01:57.965
to make the time today. I've been looking forward to this for a while.

01:01:58.365 --> 01:02:00.265
So thank you again for coming on.

01:02:00.825 --> 01:02:04.205
My absolute pleasure. And I'm Already looking forward to the next time.

01:02:04.925 --> 01:02:06.965
All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:25.200
Music.

01:02:26.165 --> 01:02:33.165
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Sean Miller.

01:02:33.605 --> 01:02:38.745
Sean Miller is a libertarian activist and founder of the nonprofit organization,

01:02:38.965 --> 01:02:40.845
the Liberty Policy Alliance.

01:02:41.585 --> 01:02:46.165
Sean seeks to advance the principles of libertarianism through limiting the

01:02:46.165 --> 01:02:51.145
power of government and the advancement of individual liberty and the concept

01:02:51.145 --> 01:02:56.165
of negative rights, and he is also a fellow Georgian.

01:02:56.285 --> 01:03:01.445
Yeah, we're both in the Atlanta area, so ladies and gentlemen,

01:03:01.685 --> 01:03:08.705
it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Sean Miller.

01:03:09.200 --> 01:03:18.640
Music.

01:03:19.145 --> 01:03:23.145
All right. Sean Miller. How you doing, sir? You doing good?

01:03:23.965 --> 01:03:27.745
I'm doing all right, Erik. How about you? Doing fine. I'm just like you.

01:03:28.445 --> 01:03:33.765
For the audience, we're both in the Atlanta area, so we're trying to stay away from the rain today.

01:03:34.085 --> 01:03:39.085
But I'm glad, Sean, you were able to come on because I want to talk to you about

01:03:39.085 --> 01:03:44.505
your organization, the Liberty Policy Alliance, and then just kind of give your

01:03:44.505 --> 01:03:48.645
feedback about what's going on in the political world right now.

01:03:49.792 --> 01:03:53.592
So what I do is I have an icebreaker face that interviews.

01:03:53.892 --> 01:03:58.752
So the first thing I do is throw a quote at the guest. So this is your quote.

01:03:59.592 --> 01:04:04.372
Politicians will always disappoint you, but the ideals of liberty will never

01:04:04.372 --> 01:04:06.612
let you down. What does that quote mean to you?

01:04:07.012 --> 01:04:13.592
That means for me as for me as an individual, that means that I not to put too

01:04:13.592 --> 01:04:18.472
much stock in what somebody says, but more their actions.

01:04:18.472 --> 01:04:21.952
Like politicians all the time they campaign

01:04:21.952 --> 01:04:24.892
they campaign campaign season last campaign season often

01:04:24.892 --> 01:04:27.732
lasts longer than the legislative sessions especially at

01:04:27.732 --> 01:04:30.892
the state level a lot of state legislatures are part-time

01:04:30.892 --> 01:04:34.552
like our state of georgia goes from january

01:04:34.552 --> 01:04:37.832
till april sometimes even just till march and

01:04:37.832 --> 01:04:41.012
then you've got the special sessions obviously texas meets

01:04:41.012 --> 01:04:44.152
once every two years outside the

01:04:44.152 --> 01:04:47.132
special sessions but what what never

01:04:47.132 --> 01:04:49.892
lets what what keeps me it's something that keeps me

01:04:49.892 --> 01:04:53.092
going is the ideals of the ideals that people are free

01:04:53.092 --> 01:04:58.252
to live their life as long as they're not hurting people they're not taking

01:04:58.252 --> 01:05:02.452
their stuff they're not they're just trying to start their business or make

01:05:02.452 --> 01:05:08.452
their money somehow have have their family have their house with the 2.5 kids

01:05:08.452 --> 01:05:10.432
in the white picket fence and.

01:05:11.632 --> 01:05:17.952
Just being free to have that as an American but politicians lie all the time,

01:05:18.052 --> 01:05:19.112
politicians will tell you,

01:05:19.952 --> 01:05:27.512
what you want to hear and then vote against that very thing the very next day, so there's nothing.

01:05:30.452 --> 01:05:36.312
It's a cynicism that I've grown to accept but it's a it's a reality working

01:05:36.312 --> 01:05:38.652
in politics that you just have to live with at times.

01:05:39.372 --> 01:05:45.092
Yeah. Well, I know that when I was, you know, Mississippi legislature is the

01:05:45.092 --> 01:05:52.392
same way we were in from January to like the first, first or second week in April.

01:05:52.672 --> 01:05:59.272
And then, you know, usually we, we either work through Easter or if it falls

01:05:59.272 --> 01:06:04.492
later in the, you know, in the April we'll get out before, but we couldn't leave

01:06:04.492 --> 01:06:05.512
without a balanced budget.

01:06:06.592 --> 01:06:11.092
So, so give me a number between one and 20.

01:06:12.332 --> 01:06:19.032
You know, it's my favorite number. People call me weird, but number 13. 13. Okay.

01:06:19.832 --> 01:06:24.632
Do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?

01:06:25.748 --> 01:06:28.668
Actually do but it's a matter of where that source

01:06:28.668 --> 01:06:31.508
is coming from so for example we see

01:06:31.508 --> 01:06:36.548
all the time on the internet there's all these there's now

01:06:36.548 --> 01:06:39.768
a more concentrated effort for unbiased news

01:06:39.768 --> 01:06:43.468
media you'll see something covered in like usa

01:06:43.468 --> 01:06:47.148
today or new york times something

01:06:47.148 --> 01:06:50.128
that has a more american as bias

01:06:50.128 --> 01:06:53.028
but if you see american news covered in like the bbc for

01:06:53.028 --> 01:06:59.548
the longest time the bbc would given different sort of uh sort of opinion the

01:06:59.548 --> 01:07:03.548
headline would read completely different than what would read on the usa today

01:07:03.548 --> 01:07:07.548
and new york times and those are just the big outlets but now there's this i

01:07:07.548 --> 01:07:11.368
see all this time on a lot of political youtubers and political.

01:07:11.908 --> 01:07:14.668
Podcasters in general promote i don't know what i don't remember what the app

01:07:14.668 --> 01:07:17.668
is called but it's designed to let

01:07:17.668 --> 01:07:20.648
you track who's more biased what what

01:07:20.648 --> 01:07:23.588
media where the media sources what their bias is what

01:07:23.588 --> 01:07:26.728
their what their slant is whether it's left-wing

01:07:26.728 --> 01:07:29.868
right-wing centrist and that allows for

01:07:29.868 --> 01:07:32.688
you the reader the consumer of the

01:07:32.688 --> 01:07:37.808
media to make an informed decision based on all right well this is a this is

01:07:37.808 --> 01:07:42.408
this story from fox news is telling it one way and a story from nbc is telling

01:07:42.408 --> 01:07:48.328
it another and then you've got your middle ground like i've i read a lot I read

01:07:48.328 --> 01:07:50.148
a lot of Reason magazine articles,

01:07:50.248 --> 01:07:52.668
obviously more online than in paper now.

01:07:52.888 --> 01:07:58.588
I find Reason to be one of the more unbiased sources on the internet when it

01:07:58.588 --> 01:08:03.768
comes to how things are produced, published.

01:08:04.008 --> 01:08:08.768
Reuters, obviously the AP. The AP just takes existing stories and publishing them.

01:08:08.888 --> 01:08:14.268
But I think there are unbiased news sources. We as consumers of media,

01:08:14.568 --> 01:08:23.628
whether it's in physical newspaper or online media, especially now with the existence of podcasts.

01:08:25.081 --> 01:08:32.801
I feel like a lot of people, and this is not because attention spans are short, we've gotten lazy.

01:08:33.561 --> 01:08:35.601
A lot of people just aren't past

01:08:35.601 --> 01:08:38.721
reading the headline. They just read the headline and read the article.

01:08:39.181 --> 01:08:44.401
But if you read the article, you'll find unbiased information,

01:08:44.681 --> 01:08:49.621
whereas the headline, you just read the headline and go through it.

01:08:49.621 --> 01:08:54.441
So I think I think media can be unbiased, but it's all it's not just on the

01:08:54.441 --> 01:08:57.861
media outlet themselves. It's on the consumer to seek that out.

01:08:57.921 --> 01:09:02.641
That way they're they have an informed opinion as well. It's a 50 50 split.

01:09:03.161 --> 01:09:11.221
OK, you describe yourself as an anarcho capitalist and having radical empathy.

01:09:11.501 --> 01:09:18.261
Explain what you mean by that. So the so the radical empathy is more of a jab than anything.

01:09:18.261 --> 01:09:23.021
The former chair of the Libertarian Party described libertarians with having

01:09:23.021 --> 01:09:28.261
a radical empathy problem and that we want to help everybody as much as we can.

01:09:29.441 --> 01:09:33.581
So that was more of a jab than anything. But as an anarcho-capitalist,

01:09:34.201 --> 01:09:37.821
I believe this is my personal belief. It's funny.

01:09:38.021 --> 01:09:41.641
It's ironic because I work in politics and I vote. but I do believe that the

01:09:41.641 --> 01:09:49.721
state is... I always go back to this Max Weber quote from the paper Politics

01:09:49.721 --> 01:09:51.601
is a Vocation. The state...

01:09:52.647 --> 01:09:57.087
In order for a state, not just a government to exist, but the state itself to

01:09:57.087 --> 01:10:00.607
exist, it has to have the monopoly on the use of force.

01:10:02.067 --> 01:10:07.187
So I believe the monopoly on use of force from, and I'll use this to keep it

01:10:07.187 --> 01:10:12.907
short, but I believe that the monopoly on use of force by the state is illegitimate.

01:10:12.907 --> 01:10:18.847
That people have a right to defend themselves, people have a right to defend

01:10:18.847 --> 01:10:22.707
their property, people have a right to defend their family and their way of life.

01:10:23.847 --> 01:10:31.167
And then the capitalist part is very simple. Well, the anarcho part is also very simple.

01:10:31.687 --> 01:10:35.987
I am an anarchist. I believe that the state is...

01:10:36.627 --> 01:10:40.387
So there's this misconception about anarchy. When people hear anarchy,

01:10:40.527 --> 01:10:45.027
they think no rules. But in reality, anarchy means no rulers.

01:10:45.427 --> 01:10:47.947
It's self-government. I self-govern myself.

01:10:48.407 --> 01:10:51.747
I self-govern my way of life. I don't tell people what to do,

01:10:51.987 --> 01:10:59.347
what to think, but I want to teach them how to think, how to behave in a proper

01:10:59.347 --> 01:11:02.007
way that doesn't hurt people at all.

01:11:02.007 --> 01:11:07.327
And then capitalists, free market capitalism, the engine that built modern society

01:11:07.327 --> 01:11:11.927
for the most part, that's my way of viewing things.

01:11:12.947 --> 01:11:19.167
Okay. As a libertarian, what is your assessment of the president's first 100 days?

01:11:19.707 --> 01:11:28.207
My assessment would be, to be completely honest, I do find some of the stuff when it comes to does.

01:11:30.027 --> 01:11:33.807
I'm going to use air quotes for the abolishment of the Department of Education

01:11:33.807 --> 01:11:39.607
those are things that those are policy goals for libertarians in general is

01:11:39.607 --> 01:11:40.927
cutting government spending,

01:11:41.947 --> 01:11:44.847
abolishing the Department of Education returning that to the states

01:11:44.847 --> 01:11:49.167
the states have the authority to set their

01:11:49.167 --> 01:11:52.267
own education goals and standards those are policy goals

01:11:52.267 --> 01:11:55.587
now going to reality those promised

01:11:55.587 --> 01:11:59.607
2 billion sorry two trillion in cuts we're

01:11:59.607 --> 01:12:02.507
only getting like 150 billion and the cuts seem

01:12:02.507 --> 01:12:06.787
to be more like they're not taking a scalpel

01:12:06.787 --> 01:12:10.067
to things they're just what they're

01:12:10.067 --> 01:12:14.047
doing they're trying they're trying to be javier mille with the chainsaw but

01:12:14.047 --> 01:12:18.167
reality is the chainsaw is getting even the chainsaw was precise even mille's

01:12:18.167 --> 01:12:22.467
chainsaw was precise this chainsaw is going everywhere whacking everything and

01:12:22.467 --> 01:12:26.207
anything that moves and now you have an ugly bush in your front yard And then

01:12:26.207 --> 01:12:27.427
the Department of Education.

01:12:28.701 --> 01:12:32.221
The abolishment, again with the air quotes on the abolishment of the Department

01:12:32.221 --> 01:12:38.421
of Education, it's a matter of do we, it's only an executive order.

01:12:39.081 --> 01:12:42.261
We all know the Department of Education was created by an act of Congress.

01:12:42.441 --> 01:12:46.441
It can only be ended with an act of Congress for the president to sign.

01:12:46.681 --> 01:12:49.841
All this is doing is defunding it.

01:12:49.961 --> 01:12:53.661
It still exists. If a Democrat gets elected in 2028, the first thing that's

01:12:53.661 --> 01:12:59.761
going to happen is they're going to restore the Department of Education to its proper glory.

01:12:59.961 --> 01:13:05.061
So there's good things, but then there's the obvious bad thing.

01:13:05.181 --> 01:13:06.841
There's the due process stuff.

01:13:07.221 --> 01:13:11.421
There's the issue with this administration making skirt due process,

01:13:11.621 --> 01:13:13.981
skirt the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment.

01:13:16.881 --> 01:13:22.141
And it screams red flags. There's the deportations to El Salvador.

01:13:22.401 --> 01:13:26.701
Whatever you think of, I'm going to call him Mr. Garcia because,

01:13:26.801 --> 01:13:29.841
one, he's older than me. And, two, I'm not going to butcher his name.

01:13:30.221 --> 01:13:35.521
He could very well be a wife-beating criminal. But the only way to actually

01:13:35.521 --> 01:13:37.601
find out is for a proper jury trial.

01:13:38.941 --> 01:13:43.681
But I will end on this. There is one other absolute thing that we are happy

01:13:43.681 --> 01:13:47.281
with as libertarians, and it's that Ross Ulbricht.

01:13:47.741 --> 01:13:53.301
He was the founder of Silk Road The dark web website using Bitcoin and all that

01:13:53.301 --> 01:13:57.381
other stuff He was pardoned by this administration On a second day,

01:13:57.421 --> 01:14:00.561
not the first like they promised But you know, crying over spilt milk,

01:14:01.061 --> 01:14:06.341
Ross Ulbrich was pardoned He did not just have his Sentence commuted So that

01:14:06.341 --> 01:14:09.801
is something that we as I will,

01:14:10.321 --> 01:14:13.821
Fight tooth and nail this, there's not a libertarian Out there that is unhappy

01:14:13.821 --> 01:14:16.801
that Ross Ulbrich Is a free man today Yeah.

01:14:17.421 --> 01:14:21.361
So you're the libertarian position dealing with.

01:14:22.390 --> 01:14:25.890
Like the Bitcoin and all that stuff is like, let it happen. Just,

01:14:26.050 --> 01:14:31.810
you know, let it roll and see what goes instead of either trying to regulate

01:14:31.810 --> 01:14:35.930
it to death or just over-regulate it, period.

01:14:36.570 --> 01:14:41.410
Correct. So Bitcoin, so a lot of the problem with Bitcoin and a lot of cryptocurrencies

01:14:41.410 --> 01:14:44.590
right now is the finance bureau has got a hold of it.

01:14:44.690 --> 01:14:49.510
It has completely turned what Bitcoin and crypto is supposed to be on it.

01:14:49.950 --> 01:14:52.870
It's supposed to be an alternative currency to the dollar you're supposed to

01:14:52.870 --> 01:14:56.550
be able to use it the same way you use it for a dollar you would use a dollar

01:14:56.550 --> 01:14:59.870
to buy like a drink or something like that instead finance pros have got a hold

01:14:59.870 --> 01:15:05.830
of it like it and now crypto is becoming something of a just another investment

01:15:05.830 --> 01:15:09.370
something to something to add to your portfolio when in reality

01:15:09.790 --> 01:15:12.890
back in so back in 2013 there was this man he

01:15:12.890 --> 01:15:15.930
was able to he was the first man to actually purchase something with bitcoin and

01:15:15.930 --> 01:15:20.610
he bought two domino's pizzas for delivery using bitcoin that's what we're that's

01:15:20.610 --> 01:15:24.190
what we as libertarians want from bitcoin and cryptocurrency we want you to

01:15:24.190 --> 01:15:29.670
be able to if you have it if you have it in like your your crypto wallet you

01:15:29.670 --> 01:15:33.930
want to and you want to spend it or you want to save it for like if something

01:15:33.930 --> 01:15:35.790
goes bad like we hit a recession.

01:15:36.650 --> 01:15:41.150
Because there's there is the thing about bitcoin especially is there's a finite

01:15:41.150 --> 01:15:45.250
amount whereas compared to the u.s dollar the government can just print u.s

01:15:45.250 --> 01:15:50.490
dollars whereas there's only a fine amount of Bitcoin that can be mined.

01:15:50.750 --> 01:15:55.390
So that's supposed to be the hedge against inflation, supposed to be able to,

01:15:55.610 --> 01:16:01.410
if the dollar dips really low, compared to its value, the more valuable Bitcoin

01:16:01.410 --> 01:16:03.110
is to use as a currency itself.

01:16:04.296 --> 01:16:10.556
Okay. So talk to us about what is the Liberty Policy Alliance?

01:16:10.556 --> 01:16:13.216
Why did you feel that you needed to start this?

01:16:13.396 --> 01:16:19.236
And what is the organization's mission? So I started the Liberty Policy Alliance

01:16:19.236 --> 01:16:22.216
towards the end of the 2022 campaign cycle because I wanted,

01:16:22.596 --> 01:16:27.036
I worked in, I've worked in grassroots for the past few years.

01:16:27.216 --> 01:16:30.276
I, in college, I was a college, I was a college Republican.

01:16:30.736 --> 01:16:37.296
Being a college Republican soured on me and, and exposing myself to party politics

01:16:37.296 --> 01:16:39.796
soured me and I became a libertarian at that point.

01:16:39.796 --> 01:16:42.856
But i we started my

01:16:42.856 --> 01:16:46.596
my friends as a way of advocating for libertarian

01:16:46.596 --> 01:16:52.796
positions at the state and local level rather than just the federal level because

01:16:52.796 --> 01:16:58.816
a lot is working so federal politics congress getting an act passed through

01:16:58.816 --> 01:17:03.036
congress is like pulling teeth sometimes and a lot of times it's already if

01:17:03.036 --> 01:17:06.096
something's passing congress it's predetermined by the lobbyists,

01:17:06.636 --> 01:17:13.256
and the leadership handing the bill to whoever, telling them you're voting yes

01:17:13.256 --> 01:17:15.416
on this in a couple of hours.

01:17:15.936 --> 01:17:22.316
At the state and local level, it's a lot more involved. You can get a lot more

01:17:22.316 --> 01:17:23.776
involved at the state and local level.

01:17:24.776 --> 01:17:28.256
You meet with your state rep or your state senator. You tell them,

01:17:28.356 --> 01:17:32.396
hey, I'm very concerned with this. You can show up. It's a lot easier to show up and testify.

01:17:32.716 --> 01:17:36.236
In the state of Georgia, if you see a bill coming through, It's very easy to

01:17:36.236 --> 01:17:39.476
go on the legislature's website.

01:17:39.676 --> 01:17:43.556
All right, this bill is having a meeting in this committee at this day and this time.

01:17:43.796 --> 01:17:49.116
Go downtown, pay your 14 bucks or however much to park, walk in,

01:17:49.316 --> 01:17:51.136
testify for or against the bill.

01:17:52.156 --> 01:17:59.336
And you're a lot more involved. So what we seek to do is using our experience in grassroots.

01:18:00.136 --> 01:18:04.176
I would, when I worked for my previous organization, we doorknocked.

01:18:04.176 --> 01:18:06.756
We got volunteers out and we door knocked.

01:18:07.016 --> 01:18:13.236
If there was a bill in session we didn't like, we would target specific legislators

01:18:13.236 --> 01:18:17.856
based on certain formula stuff

01:18:17.856 --> 01:18:20.996
and whatnot, and we'll go into the nitty-grit, the science behind it.

01:18:20.996 --> 01:18:23.776
But we would target specific legislators if they

01:18:23.776 --> 01:18:26.636
were on the committee and we would target their

01:18:26.636 --> 01:18:29.416
district we would target their voters we would knock on the door be like

01:18:29.416 --> 01:18:34.676
hey we would and we would tell them this bill is in committee right now your

01:18:34.676 --> 01:18:40.596
your state rep your state senator they're voting they they're a they're a potential

01:18:40.596 --> 01:18:45.496
vote they're a potential swing vote yes or no and we really want them to vote

01:18:45.496 --> 01:18:48.776
yes on this because we feel like this or that or the other.

01:18:50.276 --> 01:18:54.736
One example, I was knocking in Alabama in 2021 and we got told.

01:18:56.459 --> 01:19:00.699
The state rep who was in the district we were knocking in told the bill's sponsor

01:19:00.699 --> 01:19:03.659
that they can call off the attack dogs, I'll vote yes on the bill.

01:19:03.899 --> 01:19:07.439
So we use what is called the confrontation model.

01:19:07.799 --> 01:19:12.459
The idea is to use what is called the confrontation model of politics to get

01:19:12.459 --> 01:19:14.919
down into these districts.

01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:21.079
Knock on these doors, and tell the voter exactly what's going on,

01:19:21.179 --> 01:19:25.799
creating a more active constituent in the process.

01:19:25.979 --> 01:19:28.039
The idea is to give the power to the constituent.

01:19:28.279 --> 01:19:34.839
It's not necessarily just to be an asshole to these state reps and state senators.

01:19:34.839 --> 01:19:40.059
It's to get their constituents more involved, get them to realize that,

01:19:40.119 --> 01:19:45.239
hey, just because you vote twice a year in even-numbered years.

01:19:45.379 --> 01:19:50.539
Well, in a state like Mississippi, it's odd-numbered years for the state legislature.

01:19:50.539 --> 01:19:55.659
But in the state, like here in Georgia, you've got the midterms,

01:19:55.699 --> 01:19:59.059
obviously, and then the regular election cycles.

01:19:59.359 --> 01:20:03.759
But the idea is to get people involved, not just during the primary,

01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:06.779
voting in the primary and voting on a general election day.

01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:12.959
The idea is to get them involved at least during the months that the legislature are in session.

01:20:12.959 --> 01:20:17.219
Because I believe it's, I'm going to butcher this Mark Twain quote,

01:20:17.239 --> 01:20:22.719
so forgive me, because of all the things I can remember, it's not this particular quote.

01:20:22.839 --> 01:20:27.419
It's the most dangerous time for man's liberty is when the legislature is in session.

01:20:28.799 --> 01:20:33.959
So the idea here, like I said, and I'll close on this, the idea here is to get

01:20:33.959 --> 01:20:41.379
an active constituency so there's not just malaise from between primary to general election year.

01:20:41.379 --> 01:20:45.439
And then all of a sudden, the state legislature is in session and this bill

01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:51.019
is passing and people are like, oh, no, I didn't know. I didn't realize that

01:20:51.019 --> 01:20:54.619
my state legislature, my state legislator voted for this bad bill.

01:20:55.239 --> 01:20:59.099
So the idea is that's the general idea. They get involved.

01:21:00.480 --> 01:21:05.440
Grassroots involved, get voters involved, get good or get good legislation passed

01:21:05.440 --> 01:21:08.180
and bad legislation killed. Yeah.

01:21:08.800 --> 01:21:13.620
Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of times, you know, from my experience,

01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:17.620
a lot of times bills get a life of their own and

01:21:17.620 --> 01:21:20.420
even the most diligent organization may not

01:21:20.420 --> 01:21:28.860
see it coming oh yeah it was one year we were a bill came up to start a pilot

01:21:28.860 --> 01:21:35.720
program to allow hunters to bait deer and they had picked like i guess three

01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:39.080
counties out of 82 in mississippi to to

01:21:39.340 --> 01:21:43.480
do that and boy oh boy we all of

01:21:43.480 --> 01:21:46.880
a sudden it was like that bill made out a committee made it on the floor.

01:21:47.160 --> 01:21:51.460
Next thing you know, we're on the front page of the sports section of the newspaper.

01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:56.440
You know, it's like every legislator wanted to have their counties or their

01:21:56.440 --> 01:21:58.840
districts covered under the program.

01:21:59.340 --> 01:22:02.820
People were filling the galleries. It was absolutely amazing.

01:22:03.520 --> 01:22:07.060
And I'm not a hunter. So that was like.

01:22:08.114 --> 01:22:13.734
We really like getting this emotional about this, you know, but it,

01:22:13.794 --> 01:22:17.394
you know, it just took a life of its own and nobody saw that coming.

01:22:17.614 --> 01:22:22.234
It was just like, okay, well, wildlife fishery wants to try it. Let's see what happens.

01:22:22.374 --> 01:22:27.294
And then it just catapulted. So even, even with your most diligent efforts on

01:22:27.294 --> 01:22:30.734
it, sometimes you're going to miss stuff. Yeah. There's not enough.

01:22:31.394 --> 01:22:35.314
There's not enough time in the world and there's not enough people to cover.

01:22:35.314 --> 01:22:38.854
There's never enough people to cover like every nook and cranny.

01:22:39.054 --> 01:22:42.574
Sometimes things just stick up on you for the good and the bad.

01:22:43.414 --> 01:22:50.854
Yeah. On your website, it states that y'all are pro-Second Amendment in favor

01:22:50.854 --> 01:22:55.194
of legalized marijuana consumption and unrestricted free speech.

01:22:55.554 --> 01:23:00.954
So let's talk about that. So you don't want any laws concerning gun ownership in America?

01:23:01.494 --> 01:23:05.254
Yes. We are a Second Amendment absolutist organization.

01:23:05.954 --> 01:23:10.194
You'll see on our social media that we talk a lot about abolishing the National

01:23:10.194 --> 01:23:12.394
Firearms Act, abolishing the ATF.

01:23:12.654 --> 01:23:20.514
We believe that the Second Amendment and the Bill of Rights in general are negative

01:23:20.514 --> 01:23:23.934
rights, which means that these rights aren't granted.

01:23:23.934 --> 01:23:27.654
The Constitution is a codification of negative rights.

01:23:27.834 --> 01:23:35.874
These rights aren't granted by government or by God, that these are inherent

01:23:35.874 --> 01:23:37.394
to individuals by birth.

01:23:38.154 --> 01:23:44.254
The Second Amendment exists as a codification of the right to self-defense by any means necessary.

01:23:44.254 --> 01:23:50.174
Now a lot of people will take that means to oh you want people to own tanks

01:23:50.174 --> 01:23:53.914
and jets and all this other stuff people obviously take the very,

01:23:54.414 --> 01:23:58.514
oh you will hear that and they'll automatically go to that position and to that

01:23:58.514 --> 01:24:02.954
I say well if you can afford it by all means if you can afford a tank if you

01:24:02.954 --> 01:24:06.074
can afford a jet if you can afford the fuel by all means,

01:24:06.594 --> 01:24:11.234
I don't have that kind of money but and then but believe that.

01:24:12.390 --> 01:24:17.790
And right now with the AR-15 talk, the assault weapon ban talk,

01:24:17.950 --> 01:24:23.230
it's a lot of low-hanging fruit for gun ownership in general.

01:24:23.230 --> 01:24:28.650
But we truly do believe that the right to self-defense is an absolute,

01:24:28.910 --> 01:24:35.570
the right to self-defense of one's family is an absolute, and that every American man, woman,

01:24:36.190 --> 01:24:41.410
child, whether they're gay, straight, transsexual,

01:24:42.210 --> 01:24:44.770
black, white, Hispanic, doesn't matter.

01:24:44.770 --> 01:24:50.910
You have a right to defend yourself by any means necessary, and there should

01:24:50.910 --> 01:24:53.410
be no restriction on your ability to do so.

01:24:54.430 --> 01:24:59.490
So what's your interpretation of the words well-regulated in that amendment?

01:24:59.490 --> 01:25:05.470
In the traditionalist sense, the words well-regulated mean that well-kept,

01:25:05.610 --> 01:25:08.410
well-made, up to standards and stuff like that.

01:25:08.610 --> 01:25:13.990
I know a lot of people look at the words well-regulated and think modern context

01:25:13.990 --> 01:25:21.450
of regulation, regulatory body, and government checks and balances on stuff like that.

01:25:21.450 --> 01:25:30.170
But in the context of 1783 to 1789, when the Articles of Confederation and the

01:25:30.170 --> 01:25:31.450
Constitution were being written.

01:25:32.570 --> 01:25:38.230
Well-regulated was meant to mean that a person be well-trained,

01:25:38.470 --> 01:25:44.290
that it is the job of the individual to be well-trained, well-kept up to date,

01:25:44.530 --> 01:25:47.930
that they're required to do their maintenance on their firearm.

01:25:47.930 --> 01:25:51.730
They're required to keep up

01:25:51.730 --> 01:25:57.050
to date on their own training, their own marksmanship, that sort of stuff.

01:25:57.170 --> 01:26:04.710
While regulated in the modern context does not suit when the Constitution was written.

01:26:05.963 --> 01:26:10.083
So do you think all 50 states in the federal government will legalize marijuana

01:26:10.083 --> 01:26:12.243
and what would be the benefit?

01:26:12.843 --> 01:26:18.163
In an ideal world, yes. Unfortunately, we have a lot of red states,

01:26:18.343 --> 01:26:24.543
a lot of Southern Baptists, especially who view marijuana as this boogeyman.

01:26:24.803 --> 01:26:32.263
Here in Georgia, we just passed this THC, the limitization of THC in beverages

01:26:32.263 --> 01:26:34.883
and carts and whatnot that's going to harm a lot of businesses.

01:26:34.883 --> 01:26:37.843
Something similar is going on in texas because

01:26:37.843 --> 01:26:40.623
i'm because unfortunately we have a lot of drug warriors we

01:26:40.623 --> 01:26:43.983
have a lot of people who view marijuana as this

01:26:43.983 --> 01:26:46.883
the as the devil's was this gateway

01:26:46.883 --> 01:26:49.923
drug ideally i would love for all 50

01:26:49.923 --> 01:26:52.803
states and the federal government to bare minimum the bare

01:26:52.803 --> 01:26:56.143
minimum i want from the federal government is to deschedule marijuana

01:26:56.143 --> 01:26:59.203
right now marijuana is a schedule one drug but apparently

01:26:59.203 --> 01:27:01.863
fentanyl is just this huge problem fentanyl i

01:27:01.863 --> 01:27:05.603
believe is a schedule three drug at the moment i'm you

01:27:05.603 --> 01:27:08.443
you put the the logic in your

01:27:08.443 --> 01:27:11.343
head and you're just like how does this make sense how

01:27:11.343 --> 01:27:14.503
does how is it that fentanyl is this super

01:27:14.503 --> 01:27:17.683
dangerous drug that is used in medicine by the way there's research applications

01:27:17.683 --> 01:27:20.423
for that's how the schedule is that's how

01:27:20.423 --> 01:27:25.543
the dea schedule is based based off of is there a medical application for it

01:27:25.543 --> 01:27:29.203
or is there research applications for it fentanyl is i believe schedule three

01:27:29.203 --> 01:27:35.063
and so but ideally i would love for at least marijuana to get descheduled because

01:27:35.063 --> 01:27:39.243
at the federal level descheduling means a lot less severe sentence.

01:27:40.143 --> 01:27:43.963
For or even a rescheduling means a lot less severe sentence the difference between

01:27:43.963 --> 01:27:49.343
schedule one and schedule two is at least five to ten years in prison descheduling

01:27:49.343 --> 01:27:52.003
would mean it's barely a misdemeanor at the federal level,

01:27:53.036 --> 01:27:57.316
Right now we have 24 states, including two red states, Missouri and Ohio,

01:27:57.516 --> 01:28:00.776
that have legalized recreational marijuana as well as medicinal marijuana.

01:28:01.076 --> 01:28:06.336
In 2023, Oklahoma had the chance to legalize recreational.

01:28:06.596 --> 01:28:12.936
That failed on the ballot because it was a ballot initiative in March,

01:28:13.056 --> 01:28:15.336
and March is where ballot initiatives go to die.

01:28:15.336 --> 01:28:21.876
So but i i think a lot of even i see it all the time on like social media and when i'm talking to.

01:28:22.816 --> 01:28:25.876
Republicans oh the drug warrior

01:28:25.876 --> 01:28:28.656
mindset the the one that is currently going

01:28:28.656 --> 01:28:32.256
on in the legislatures in these red state legislatures it's

01:28:32.256 --> 01:28:35.816
dying out amongst even older republicans the

01:28:35.816 --> 01:28:39.496
very the idea that marijuana should remain illegal

01:28:39.496 --> 01:28:42.496
like bare minimum a lot of republicans i've

01:28:42.496 --> 01:28:46.076
talked to in in real life in social

01:28:46.076 --> 01:28:49.376
media and just all around favor at

01:28:49.376 --> 01:28:52.596
least medical medical marijuana there's we

01:28:52.596 --> 01:28:56.736
we know the research applications are there so i'm

01:28:56.736 --> 01:29:01.636
hopeful that in the next 50 years we can at least have 50 states in a federal

01:29:01.636 --> 01:29:08.356
and a federal government that has as legal medical marijuana and if not de-scheduled

01:29:08.356 --> 01:29:13.396
at least decriminal decriminalized at least descheduled marijuana from the DEA schedule.

01:29:13.956 --> 01:29:18.396
Why do you think it is important to have unrestricted free speech?

01:29:19.116 --> 01:29:23.516
Again, this goes back to the Constitution being a, the Bill of Rights being

01:29:23.516 --> 01:29:24.896
a charter of negative liberties.

01:29:25.196 --> 01:29:30.076
The idea that you have a right to, government has no right to restrict what

01:29:30.076 --> 01:29:34.476
you have to say, what you can and can't say, and whatnot.

01:29:34.756 --> 01:29:37.836
This goes down to requiring a permit. i

01:29:37.836 --> 01:29:41.096
don't think you should be required to have a permit to protest like

01:29:41.096 --> 01:29:44.216
a lot of colleges when i was going to college our college

01:29:44.216 --> 01:29:48.576
required you to when i was an undergrad our college required you to get a permit

01:29:48.576 --> 01:29:52.616
and give like three days notice i think that's absolutely unacceptable if you

01:29:52.616 --> 01:29:56.516
want to protest if you want to if you and your friends want to show up with

01:29:56.516 --> 01:30:01.296
signs that call donald trump the devil or joe biden great satan you should be

01:30:01.296 --> 01:30:04.116
able to do that whenever wherever and not face any,

01:30:04.716 --> 01:30:07.416
this also goes to being able to criticize the state of

01:30:07.416 --> 01:30:10.936
israel which we know is a hot topic right now if you're and regardless

01:30:10.936 --> 01:30:15.216
of whether you're an immigrant or on a green card or something like that you

01:30:15.216 --> 01:30:20.776
should be able to once you are once you are within the borders of the united

01:30:20.776 --> 01:30:25.796
states because the united the united states constitution is just this wonderful

01:30:25.796 --> 01:30:29.116
are we it says reconnecting.

01:30:30.512 --> 01:30:34.812
But the United States Constitution is just wonderful. It's not even the first of its kind.

01:30:34.832 --> 01:30:38.632
It's just the one that perfected it. The Magna Carta was sort of the first one.

01:30:38.812 --> 01:30:41.832
The first sort of charter of negative liberties that said, man,

01:30:42.012 --> 01:30:47.432
it has this man, I'm using man in the general sense, has these inalienable rights.

01:30:47.812 --> 01:30:50.852
But the First Amendment, the First Amendment is absolute.

01:30:51.012 --> 01:30:54.292
If you want to get, if you want to criticize the United States government,

01:30:54.492 --> 01:30:57.652
if you want to criticize the state of Israel while you are within the United

01:30:57.652 --> 01:31:00.032
States borders, you should be free to do so regardless.

01:31:00.612 --> 01:31:08.712
As long as you are not calling for violence on people causing a riot or anything,

01:31:08.852 --> 01:31:15.072
the threshold for saying you're causing a riot should be at a breaking point.

01:31:15.212 --> 01:31:20.372
It shouldn't be easy to break. It should be like, here's the floor and the ceiling

01:31:20.372 --> 01:31:25.612
is way, way up there for saying you're trying to cause a riot and therefore you could be arrested.

01:31:25.612 --> 01:31:30.812
So I think because being able to criticize the government is,

01:31:31.572 --> 01:31:34.212
something that's just, I feel like it's just a bare minimum,

01:31:34.232 --> 01:31:37.992
you should be able to criticize your government for when it's doing wrong just

01:31:37.992 --> 01:31:40.832
the same way you should be able to criticize you should praise your government

01:31:40.832 --> 01:31:43.952
for when it actually does something right it goes.

01:31:45.792 --> 01:31:50.312
Without saying that free speech is the United

01:31:50.312 --> 01:31:54.012
States has I won't say we've perfected the

01:31:54.012 --> 01:31:58.972
concept of free speech but we very much have we

01:31:58.972 --> 01:32:01.792
we should be setting the example for the

01:32:01.792 --> 01:32:04.732
rest of the world on how free speech how free

01:32:04.732 --> 01:32:08.112
people should be how it

01:32:08.112 --> 01:32:11.552
should be yeah so you

01:32:11.552 --> 01:32:14.272
know but you did say there is a line it's just got to

01:32:14.272 --> 01:32:17.652
be a long long way before you cross it yes

01:32:17.652 --> 01:32:20.432
because at some point because if you're

01:32:20.432 --> 01:32:23.692
once you start actually threatening violence against

01:32:23.692 --> 01:32:26.972
somebody that's when you start like the

01:32:26.972 --> 01:32:30.212
whole concept of your rights your rights

01:32:30.212 --> 01:32:34.372
and when you're when your hand when your fist meets my face essentially that's

01:32:34.372 --> 01:32:39.852
that's the line like once you start throwing punches once you start like harming

01:32:39.852 --> 01:32:43.652
people throwing glass throwing rocks at windows that people's businesses try

01:32:43.652 --> 01:32:47.352
causing disturbances to people's livelihood that's when it stops being free

01:32:47.352 --> 01:32:49.192
speech. That's when it stops being that.

01:32:49.332 --> 01:32:52.932
But that line should be that. That's where I feel like that's where the line is.

01:32:53.112 --> 01:32:56.212
Once you start, once you start getting violent with somebody,

01:32:56.312 --> 01:32:58.132
that's where the line. Yeah.

01:32:58.872 --> 01:33:01.252
So the threat of violence. I got you.

01:33:02.032 --> 01:33:06.912
Your organization states that civil asset forfeiture is unconstitutional.

01:33:07.432 --> 01:33:11.492
And y'all have lobbied the Georgia state legislature to outlaw the practice.

01:33:11.952 --> 01:33:16.612
Explain to the listeners what exactly you're talking about and give us an update

01:33:16.612 --> 01:33:17.852
concerning the legislation?

01:33:18.272 --> 01:33:22.532
So, unfortunately, we haven't been able to get any legislation that's,

01:33:23.059 --> 01:33:25.939
the legislature yet but so civil asset.

01:33:25.939 --> 01:33:29.579
Forfeiture is a practice that has come out of the drug war it is

01:33:29.579 --> 01:33:32.379
essentially a misinterpretation of

01:33:32.379 --> 01:33:35.279
the takings clause under the fourth fifth and fourth fifth

01:33:35.279 --> 01:33:38.739
and fourteenth amendment of due process essentially what happens is.

01:33:38.739 --> 01:33:42.859
Say you're trapped i'm traveling from georgia to.

01:33:42.859 --> 01:33:46.439
Alabama or mississippi and i'm stopped along the way i

01:33:46.439 --> 01:33:49.179
have ten thousand dollars in cash in my

01:33:49.179 --> 01:33:52.019
car at that very moment the police officer sees

01:33:52.019 --> 01:33:55.779
that cash and under quote-unquote probable

01:33:55.779 --> 01:33:58.519
cause says i believe that this this ten

01:33:58.519 --> 01:34:01.759
thousand dollars cash is being used in the commission of the crime i

01:34:01.759 --> 01:34:05.339
am going to take this using civil asset forfeiture and

01:34:05.339 --> 01:34:08.339
we're you will here is

01:34:08.339 --> 01:34:11.119
a receipt for this and we

01:34:11.119 --> 01:34:14.219
will you essentially it flips the

01:34:14.219 --> 01:34:17.139
concept of innocent until proven guilty on its head you are

01:34:17.139 --> 01:34:19.939
now guilty until proven innocent you are the

01:34:19.939 --> 01:34:24.059
one responsible for going to court and proving that that

01:34:24.059 --> 01:34:26.819
ten thousand dollars is not being used in

01:34:26.819 --> 01:34:30.399
the commission of the crime that you had a legitimate purpose for using

01:34:30.399 --> 01:34:33.179
that ten for having that ten thousand dollars add you

01:34:33.179 --> 01:34:36.639
on you at that time and you were.

01:34:36.639 --> 01:34:39.979
You were now fighting for not losing

01:34:39.979 --> 01:34:42.919
your life savings a lot of times and it's not just cash

01:34:42.919 --> 01:34:46.699
that gets taken a lot of times it's cars homes there's

01:34:46.699 --> 01:34:49.639
plenty of stories in states all across the country

01:34:49.639 --> 01:34:53.219
where people's cars homes just

01:34:53.219 --> 01:34:56.159
about anything that isn't nailed down to the floor gets

01:34:56.159 --> 01:35:02.099
taken under under civil asset and there are plenty of stories where the threshold

01:35:02.099 --> 01:35:09.239
for your local so the threshold for the local police department is somewhat

01:35:09.239 --> 01:35:15.139
high so what they'll do is they'll call the dea and or they'll call in the FBI somebody.

01:35:15.359 --> 01:35:19.619
Federal agency and under federal guidelines they'll

01:35:19.619 --> 01:35:23.019
get a kickback of they'll have

01:35:23.019 --> 01:35:26.059
the FBI or whatever federal agency has jurisdiction

01:35:26.059 --> 01:35:32.499
do the takings under civil asset for Pachero and the police department will

01:35:32.499 --> 01:35:40.919
get a kickback of anywhere from 20 to 80 percent so the practice is immoral

01:35:40.919 --> 01:35:43.059
it creates this sort of Like I said,

01:35:43.259 --> 01:35:45.899
it creates this, it flips due process on its head.

01:35:46.079 --> 01:35:49.819
So instead of innocent till proven guilty, you are now guilty till proven innocent.

01:35:50.379 --> 01:35:58.619
And it creates perverse incentives for police to, these police for profit incentives as well.

01:35:59.789 --> 01:36:05.429
Yeah, because one of the things, you know, I worked for the ACLU for a couple

01:36:05.429 --> 01:36:06.489
of years in Mississippi,

01:36:06.489 --> 01:36:13.089
and it's been a decade ago we were dealing with this issue and trying to get

01:36:13.089 --> 01:36:16.709
the legislature to do something with it.

01:36:16.709 --> 01:36:21.989
And, you know, there's two things that were really, really that stood out.

01:36:22.149 --> 01:36:28.409
One is that, like you said, people are found guilty when they put the probable

01:36:28.409 --> 01:36:32.009
cause instead of total, you know, proper due process.

01:36:32.589 --> 01:36:35.449
And if they are proven innocent, they don't get that.

01:36:35.589 --> 01:36:39.069
Most of them don't get that property back. It's gone because they've auctioned

01:36:39.069 --> 01:36:42.229
it off or if it's cash, they've used it or whatever.

01:36:42.229 --> 01:36:46.289
And then the other thing that was really striking, there's a police,

01:36:46.569 --> 01:36:51.029
there's a city right on I-20 in Rankin County named Richland.

01:36:51.809 --> 01:36:56.829
And Richland, Mississippi, built a brand new police station,

01:36:57.369 --> 01:37:01.969
$1.8 million, strictly off civil asset forfeiture funds.

01:37:01.969 --> 01:37:10.589
So, like you said, there is an extreme incentive for law enforcement to do this.

01:37:10.709 --> 01:37:18.769
And so I found it interesting that your organization is on top of it and trying to address it.

01:37:18.769 --> 01:37:22.009
Yeah like i said we're we're a

01:37:22.009 --> 01:37:25.609
liberty we're a strictly libertarian organization we're it's

01:37:25.609 --> 01:37:28.949
not a matter of left or right it's a matter of right and wrong authoritarian

01:37:28.949 --> 01:37:35.249
and being anti-authoritarian we don't care if it's our motto and this took it

01:37:35.249 --> 01:37:39.709
some time to flesh out for a bit and it's very it's short and it's simple and

01:37:39.709 --> 01:37:44.349
sweet it's we endorse ideas not people we won't you'll never see us endorse,

01:37:44.569 --> 01:37:48.249
very rarely actually will you see us endorse a candidate for office.

01:37:48.649 --> 01:37:54.489
But they have to make strict, strict, strict, strict, strict,

01:37:54.489 --> 01:37:54.489
strict, strict, strict, strict,

01:37:55.369 --> 01:37:59.349
our principles it can't be a matter of just oh we think this person will pass

01:37:59.349 --> 01:38:03.189
one or two things no you have to be for if we endorse a candidate it's because

01:38:03.189 --> 01:38:07.029
we believe that they'll they'll fight for a hundred percent of our value but

01:38:07.029 --> 01:38:11.249
we endorse ideas because going back to the first thing we opened up with like

01:38:11.249 --> 01:38:15.029
you can't trust politicians but you can trust the ideals of liberty and.

01:38:16.029 --> 01:38:21.489
The simple matter of the fact is as long as we don't care where a bill comes

01:38:21.489 --> 01:38:26.269
from when it comes to being a pro-libertarian, pro-libertarian ideal,

01:38:27.109 --> 01:38:28.489
pro-ideals of liberty,

01:38:29.869 --> 01:38:33.489
if we want it passed, we will fight for it. We will endorse it.

01:38:33.609 --> 01:38:36.729
We will do grassroots. We will do mail.

01:38:37.669 --> 01:38:44.369
We'll go out into wherever, and we will talk to the people about getting this bill passed.

01:38:44.529 --> 01:38:49.769
And we'll do the same for anti-freedom, anti-libertarian, anti-liberty bills

01:38:49.769 --> 01:38:53.669
as well. If we want to kill a bill, we'll do the exact same thing.

01:38:53.829 --> 01:38:57.949
But the idea is that we endorse ideas, not people, because politicians will

01:38:57.949 --> 01:39:01.129
fail you, but the ideals of liberty will not.

01:39:01.129 --> 01:39:05.409
The ideal for a free society that is built on trust.

01:39:07.109 --> 01:39:10.569
Life, liberty, the ideals of life, liberty, and property,

01:39:10.869 --> 01:39:15.949
the ideals of liberty, the ideal world that the founders envisioned, obviously,

01:39:16.209 --> 01:39:21.469
so far out, you can't envision too much in 1776, but you have an idea of what

01:39:21.469 --> 01:39:25.849
you think the country should be like in 200-300 years from now.

01:39:25.849 --> 01:39:27.989
That's what we're kind of striving.

01:39:28.149 --> 01:39:30.669
That's what we're striving for. We're striving for a free world.

01:39:30.849 --> 01:39:34.749
We're striving for a world where people, regardless of race,

01:39:34.949 --> 01:39:38.729
religion, are able to live their life to the best of their abilities,

01:39:38.849 --> 01:39:41.469
defend their life, liberty, and property to the best of their abilities.

01:39:41.869 --> 01:39:47.189
And that means going after Republican initiatives like civil law enforcement

01:39:47.189 --> 01:39:50.629
initiatives, like civil asset forfeiture and qualified immunity.

01:39:51.089 --> 01:39:58.489
So be it. So, I think you gave an example of what you think was government overreach

01:39:58.489 --> 01:40:02.849
that you see with the Trump administration when you're talking about the due process issue.

01:40:03.129 --> 01:40:08.709
What was an overreach that you saw in the Biden administration?

01:40:08.709 --> 01:40:13.929
So the Biden administration will tackle the Second Amendment stuff directly first.

01:40:14.469 --> 01:40:19.349
Well, probably only because, but the Biden administration was very heavy handed

01:40:19.349 --> 01:40:24.349
with what we view as anti-Second Amendment legislation and regulations.

01:40:24.349 --> 01:40:28.529
There was the Safer Communities Act, which tried to restrict firearm purchase

01:40:28.529 --> 01:40:30.749
and sales. There was the Constance.

01:40:32.709 --> 01:40:40.289
They had the executive committee with David Hogg and all the other pro-gun...

01:40:40.289 --> 01:40:45.709
I won't call them... I would be nice enough to call David Hogg a pro-gun control activist.

01:40:45.969 --> 01:40:50.089
I feel it, but that's the respectful term I'll use for people like him.

01:40:51.345 --> 01:40:57.225
There was constant suing. There was the use of the ATF to make rules through

01:40:57.225 --> 01:41:00.485
the federal register on pistol braces and stuff like that.

01:41:00.565 --> 01:41:03.765
Some of the stuff, like the pistol brace and the bump stock rule through the

01:41:03.765 --> 01:41:10.845
ATF, was actually prior Trump administration rules that the Biden administration

01:41:10.845 --> 01:41:11.845
went ahead and codified.

01:41:11.985 --> 01:41:17.205
So that was some of the stuff. The Biden administration was very heavy-handed

01:41:17.205 --> 01:41:25.825
about blocking aid grants with gun control, with pushing gun control legislation.

01:41:27.025 --> 01:41:31.865
So we were very much against that sort of stuff. And then in terms of fighting

01:41:31.865 --> 01:41:36.785
the drug war, the Biden administration, I pardoned a lot of people towards the end there,

01:41:37.145 --> 01:41:45.225
and made promises and promises about bare minimum rescheduling marijuana or

01:41:45.225 --> 01:41:47.445
even descheduling, but never fell through.

01:41:47.445 --> 01:41:53.865
So we were constantly on in our short time for the well, by the end of we only

01:41:53.865 --> 01:41:57.005
had we only existed for the latter half of the Biden term.

01:41:57.085 --> 01:42:03.125
So it was very much like what you saw on for us against the Biden administration is what you got.

01:42:04.821 --> 01:42:09.241
But with the Trump administration, we're going to have the full four years of

01:42:09.241 --> 01:42:14.081
the second Trump term to really go after, and we'll have the full four to eight

01:42:14.081 --> 01:42:16.321
years of future Democratic term to go after them.

01:42:16.421 --> 01:42:22.021
But the Biden administration, we were definitely on them about their anti-Second

01:42:22.021 --> 01:42:27.361
Amendment policies, a lot of the continuation of the drug war policies,

01:42:27.581 --> 01:42:29.101
the use of civil asset forfeiture,

01:42:29.601 --> 01:42:32.101
defense of qualified immunity, and stuff like that.

01:42:32.101 --> 01:42:36.521
So we're hopeful that in the future,

01:42:36.761 --> 01:42:40.281
because we are not generally involved in federal, we don't want to get involved

01:42:40.281 --> 01:42:45.361
in federal politics, we will if we have to, because we view as getting involved

01:42:45.361 --> 01:42:48.881
in the state and local level is a lot more effective.

01:42:49.501 --> 01:42:54.181
And a restoration of the 10th and view it as a restoration of the 10th amendment,

01:42:54.181 --> 01:43:01.861
get the states more power within the government itself rather than just this

01:43:01.861 --> 01:43:03.741
overarching federal government.

01:43:03.861 --> 01:43:07.621
We want to return, essentially, I'll wrap it up with this, I'll end my plan here.

01:43:07.841 --> 01:43:11.161
We want to return to federalism. We want the states to be able to have distinct

01:43:11.161 --> 01:43:14.721
roles and then the federal government to have its distinct roles.

01:43:14.981 --> 01:43:20.121
The federal government exists to exists within the bounds of the Constitution,

01:43:20.341 --> 01:43:25.461
within the amendments, and then the state governments exist within their defined

01:43:25.461 --> 01:43:28.821
roles, within their state constitutions and their state legislate.

01:43:29.441 --> 01:43:35.041
So, last question, will there be a viable libertarian candidate in the 2028

01:43:35.041 --> 01:43:37.221
presidential election? I'm hopeful.

01:43:37.861 --> 01:43:40.801
And the reason I'm hopeful is right now in the state of Georgia,

01:43:40.801 --> 01:43:44.801
Well, unfortunately, in the state of Georgia, we we lost ballot access.

01:43:45.061 --> 01:43:49.401
And that's not not to the candidates fault. That is, that is just,

01:43:49.641 --> 01:43:55.161
there is a myriad of things that happen that cause the Libertarian Party in

01:43:55.161 --> 01:43:58.381
Georgia to lose their lose ballot access.

01:43:59.636 --> 01:44:06.036
And so now there are petition drives going on. I'll plug in the Libertarian Party of Georgia.

01:44:06.216 --> 01:44:10.056
There's multiple ballot initiative drives going on right now.

01:44:10.156 --> 01:44:15.036
There's going to be one in Cartersville, Georgia, May the 17th, 4 p.m.

01:44:15.076 --> 01:44:17.236
There are going to be a lot of lovely Libertarians out there.

01:44:17.236 --> 01:44:26.176
I ask that anybody who talks to them signs the petition because having viable third.

01:44:26.796 --> 01:44:35.196
Fourth, fifth option is essential as the duopoly tries to consolidate more and more power.

01:44:35.196 --> 01:44:38.676
But given how ballot access laws

01:44:38.676 --> 01:44:41.756
work how tirelessly both Republicans and

01:44:41.756 --> 01:44:44.596
Democrats work to keep competing parties off

01:44:44.596 --> 01:44:47.396
the ballot viability is not a matter I don't

01:44:47.396 --> 01:44:51.036
think viability is a matter of the candidate itself it's a matter of the laws

01:44:51.036 --> 01:44:56.816
at hand if we can curtail if we can strip down these ballot access laws allow

01:44:56.816 --> 01:45:02.236
for the libertarian party the green party the constitution party whatever political

01:45:02.236 --> 01:45:04.916
party people want to start to be able to get

01:45:05.196 --> 01:45:08.596
on the ballot give people more options

01:45:08.596 --> 01:45:11.756
because we live in again we live in this capitalist society where

01:45:11.756 --> 01:45:14.696
we always tell people more the more

01:45:14.696 --> 01:45:17.676
choices the better yet when it comes to the ballot box

01:45:17.676 --> 01:45:22.716
we're stocked through with vanilla and vanilla beans like people

01:45:22.716 --> 01:45:25.476
are often off and i hear all the time

01:45:25.476 --> 01:45:30.456
oh why isn't the third why isn't a third party viable oh why are your candidates

01:45:30.456 --> 01:45:34.976
like this something like it's not just the candidate it's not just it's not

01:45:34.976 --> 01:45:40.616
just the voter the the party itself the mechanisms within the party it's quite

01:45:40.616 --> 01:45:44.856
literal it's quite literally all these state ballot initiative ballot laws that.

01:45:45.800 --> 01:45:49.120
Keep third and fourth parties and independents off

01:45:49.120 --> 01:45:51.840
the off the ballot we saw this with rfk jr there's a

01:45:51.840 --> 01:45:54.760
reason the reason he dropped out and endorsed trump wasn't

01:45:54.760 --> 01:45:57.940
because of some like well obviously

01:45:57.940 --> 01:46:01.320
it was some mac and it was some promise of the hhs

01:46:01.320 --> 01:46:04.940
position but he wasn't

01:46:04.940 --> 01:46:07.920
he was there was no way for him without as

01:46:07.920 --> 01:46:11.360
an independent to be able to continue to afford fight trying

01:46:11.360 --> 01:46:14.400
to fight to get on all these ballots trying to fight all

01:46:14.400 --> 01:46:17.400
these ballot access laws he did well for himself in

01:46:17.400 --> 01:46:21.320
the end but it was just not sustainable in in

01:46:21.320 --> 01:46:28.800
2026 and 2028 for libertarians greens to be have successful because right now

01:46:28.800 --> 01:46:39.680
i for a party to get even minor party status they have to get 5% of the vote in a given election.

01:46:40.740 --> 01:46:46.720
1% just to stay on a ballot. In Georgia, it's 1% of a statewide race.

01:46:47.560 --> 01:46:56.100
5% in any of the 50 states gets you minor party status in that state.

01:46:56.480 --> 01:47:01.240
So the goal in the future,

01:47:02.260 --> 01:47:05.820
is fighting for better ballot access laws and won't

01:47:05.820 --> 01:47:09.420
go into the rank i don't think we'll have time to go into rank choice i

01:47:09.420 --> 01:47:12.580
will not give a position i will not give a position my

01:47:12.580 --> 01:47:16.460
i won't give my personal position or the organization's position on rank choice

01:47:16.460 --> 01:47:22.080
at the moment but people like star voting people like i forget what the other

01:47:22.080 --> 01:47:25.500
one but we need we definitely need something that's not first past the post

01:47:25.500 --> 01:47:31.620
to allow for viable options it's not just a matter of candidate quality,

01:47:32.180 --> 01:47:37.200
not just a matter of like I said, it's not just a matter of candidate quality or party apparatus.

01:47:37.460 --> 01:47:44.340
It is a combination of the three. It's candidate, party apparatus, ballot access laws.

01:47:45.458 --> 01:47:48.998
And all of those things, the last one being the most important,

01:47:49.178 --> 01:47:52.498
because that's what's going to get people on their time.

01:47:52.758 --> 01:48:02.358
But that's going to be what allows the Libertarian Party to have a good chance

01:48:02.358 --> 01:48:05.118
of claiming the presidency in 2028.

01:48:06.198 --> 01:48:13.058
All right. So if people want to reach out to you, if people want to get involved

01:48:13.058 --> 01:48:16.438
with the Liberty Policy Alliance, how can they go about doing that?

01:48:16.438 --> 01:48:22.998
So the first place they can go check us out is libertypolicyalliance.org. That's our website.

01:48:23.378 --> 01:48:29.418
You can always email us directly at libertypolicyalliance at gmail.com.

01:48:30.258 --> 01:48:33.918
Once we get enough funding, that'll be a more businessy email.

01:48:34.198 --> 01:48:43.378
But my business email is sean.miller, S-E-A-N dot M-I-L-L-E-R at libertypolicyalliance.org

01:48:43.378 --> 01:48:44.538
if you want to reach me directly.

01:48:45.178 --> 01:48:49.038
We are on social media we're on facebook instagram x

01:48:49.038 --> 01:48:52.038
and linkedin and i guess technically threads

01:48:52.038 --> 01:48:55.018
because if you have an instagram account you have a threads account it's

01:48:55.018 --> 01:48:58.138
just weird but if you want to reach us reach

01:48:58.138 --> 01:49:03.238
out to us on any of our social media platforms you can do it that way and we

01:49:03.238 --> 01:49:06.518
want to we want to hear from everybody we don't want to just hear from republicans

01:49:06.518 --> 01:49:11.058
democrats independents libertarians greens we want to hear from everybody so

01:49:11.058 --> 01:49:16.438
if you're if you're listening to this and you want to get involved and you want to reach out.

01:49:17.722 --> 01:49:23.982
All means, do not feel like you're being tied down to any particular label.

01:49:24.202 --> 01:49:31.402
Like I said, we'll work with anybody to achieve what is commonly quoted as liberty in our lifetime.

01:49:32.022 --> 01:49:35.462
So I hope people who hear this reach out.

01:49:35.642 --> 01:49:42.622
I look forward to having people reach out, and I hope to make a lot of people more free in the future.

01:49:42.622 --> 01:49:48.042
Well, Sean Miller, I greatly appreciate you coming on, my man,

01:49:48.262 --> 01:49:55.202
and talking about what your organization is doing and some of your insights and what's going on.

01:49:55.562 --> 01:50:01.262
My only child is named Sean. So that's an advantage for you there.

01:50:01.262 --> 01:50:06.822
And then the other thing is anybody that I have on the show has an open invitation to come back.

01:50:06.982 --> 01:50:10.442
So if it's something going on, if you decide, look, man, we need to talk about

01:50:10.442 --> 01:50:15.982
this rank voting thing or whatever's on your mind, just feel free to reach out and we'll get you on.

01:50:16.122 --> 01:50:23.142
So, again, thank you for taking the time and thank your best friend for allowing us to have this moment.

01:50:24.322 --> 01:50:27.682
Well, thank you for having me I'll gladly,

01:50:27.882 --> 01:50:32.722
if there's something going on If we see a bill we like or dislike Whether it's

01:50:32.722 --> 01:50:38.322
at the state or local Or even the federal level I will gladly hop back on to talk about it I can,

01:50:38.442 --> 01:50:42.942
there are certain There are just certain causes And certain issues that I can talk.

01:50:44.762 --> 01:50:49.922
If we weren't on a time crunch I could go all day Yes sir Alright guys,

01:50:50.042 --> 01:50:51.382
and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:50:51.280 --> 01:51:09.520
Music.

01:51:10.389 --> 01:51:15.109
All right. And we are back. And ladies and gentlemen, we have a special treat.

01:51:15.289 --> 01:51:20.869
Like I said at the intro, it is time for another appearance of the podcast law

01:51:20.869 --> 01:51:25.689
firm of Pearson and Pearson. My good friends, Dr.

01:51:26.129 --> 01:51:30.509
Tracy Pearson and Melba Pearson. As you know, Dr.

01:51:30.669 --> 01:51:34.749
Tracy Pearson is based in Los Angeles, and she is a legal,

01:51:35.069 --> 01:51:39.289
political, and cultural analyst and strategist who appears weekly on the popular,

01:51:39.589 --> 01:51:44.409
smart, and entertaining radio program, Tell Me Everything, with John Fuglesang,

01:51:44.589 --> 01:51:48.209
which airs on Sirius XM Progress 127.

01:51:49.589 --> 01:51:56.629
And Melba is an attorney specializing in civil rights and criminal law with an emphasis on policy.

01:51:57.409 --> 01:52:01.889
She is the director of prosecution projects at the Gordon Institute for Public

01:52:01.889 --> 01:52:07.769
Policy and co-manager for the Prosecutorial Performance Indicators Project based

01:52:07.769 --> 01:52:10.209
at Florida International University.

01:52:11.309 --> 01:52:17.049
Melba also has a weekly web show called Mondays with Melba and her podcast,

01:52:17.249 --> 01:52:18.529
The Resident Legal Diva.

01:52:18.889 --> 01:52:26.329
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have my good friends, Melba and Dr.

01:52:26.469 --> 01:52:31.589
Tracy Pearson, the podcast law firm of Pearson and Pearson.

01:52:32.400 --> 01:52:42.160
Music.

01:52:42.689 --> 01:52:47.889
All right, ladies and gentlemen, the podcast law firm, Pearson and Pearson,

01:52:48.089 --> 01:52:50.489
is in the house. Dr. Tracy, how you doing?

01:52:51.029 --> 01:52:54.289
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Erik. Melba, how you doing?

01:52:55.009 --> 01:52:58.949
Good, my brother. How are you doing? I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine.

01:52:59.129 --> 01:53:01.209
Just we've survived the first hundred days.

01:53:01.809 --> 01:53:03.389
Very early. I know, right?

01:53:04.269 --> 01:53:09.949
And so now we asked y'all to come on because one of the highlights,

01:53:09.949 --> 01:53:14.809
it seems like, of these first hundred days was there were a lot of judges going to work.

01:53:14.989 --> 01:53:19.369
I think there were some federal judges that had kind of been staying in the

01:53:19.369 --> 01:53:23.069
low light for years and years. And I know there's one gentleman,

01:53:23.069 --> 01:53:28.609
I think he's been on the bench 41 years, and he had to make a ruling on something that Trump did.

01:53:28.849 --> 01:53:34.629
So I thought that maybe the best people to analyze what's been happening were

01:53:34.629 --> 01:53:38.849
attorneys, people that practice the law and study the law and pay attention

01:53:38.849 --> 01:53:40.129
to legal issues going on.

01:53:40.309 --> 01:53:44.349
So the first question I wanted to throw out to both of y'all is what is the

01:53:44.349 --> 01:53:50.409
most important legal issue that has emerged from these first 100 days? Ooh.

01:53:51.977 --> 01:53:57.817
Most important one? I mean, so two things.

01:53:57.997 --> 01:54:01.937
I know I'm supposed to be pick one, but due process is incredibly important

01:54:01.937 --> 01:54:06.657
because that's like folks have heard of that term in the abstract,

01:54:06.657 --> 01:54:10.577
and I think they don't understand what that actually means in practice.

01:54:11.257 --> 01:54:14.397
And so clearly the courts are

01:54:14.397 --> 01:54:18.877
going to be have to rule in terms of the due process due to immigrants,

01:54:19.097 --> 01:54:24.537
the due process due to even citizens who end up getting deported and,

01:54:24.537 --> 01:54:29.417
you know, vis-a-vis the two and three-year-old children that were citizens and

01:54:29.417 --> 01:54:31.317
got deported with their moms, despite,

01:54:31.737 --> 01:54:36.317
you know, there was a parent that resided in the U.S. and wanted them with them.

01:54:36.437 --> 01:54:40.497
And, you know, it seems that the mothers were under duress at the time that

01:54:40.497 --> 01:54:44.037
they ended up, quote unquote, agreeing to be deported with their kids.

01:54:44.197 --> 01:54:47.077
So the whole due process aspect, I think, is huge.

01:54:47.157 --> 01:54:56.477
But also respect for the courts, because Because again, when you have a federal judge saying, bring Mr.

01:54:56.617 --> 01:55:02.517
Kilmar Garcia back to the U.S., and you have the president being like, yeah, I can, but nope.

01:55:03.137 --> 01:55:09.037
It's like that stare down, that I'm daring you to do something about it.

01:55:09.037 --> 01:55:14.837
And I don't think that that's going to be resolved until one of these judges

01:55:14.837 --> 01:55:20.657
tells somebody to bring their toothbrush and sit in the dock and have to take

01:55:20.657 --> 01:55:24.817
their behinds to jail for contempt and sit there for six months.

01:55:26.557 --> 01:55:31.337
And if it's the line prosecutor, the line assistant U.S. attorney, that's one thing.

01:55:31.477 --> 01:55:35.277
But I honestly think it should be the attorney general because she's the one

01:55:35.277 --> 01:55:40.277
who's the puppet master behind all of this, forcing the assistant U.S.

01:55:40.357 --> 01:55:45.017
Attorneys to target people, to make arguments that they know are inaccurate,

01:55:45.017 --> 01:55:49.157
that they know are contrary to the law. And she's pushing for all of that.

01:55:49.257 --> 01:55:53.717
And if you dare to stand up and be like, actually, I don't think this argument

01:55:53.717 --> 01:55:57.397
makes sense or you're in court and the judge asks you a question and you answer

01:55:57.397 --> 01:56:00.917
it honestly like, I don't know, judge. The next thing you know, you're like fired.

01:56:02.113 --> 01:56:05.873
That's not how any of this works. That's not how this is supposed to work.

01:56:06.193 --> 01:56:08.433
So I'm going to pause there because I could rant all day.

01:56:09.553 --> 01:56:15.753
I agree. I think the due process is important. I think there's a couple things.

01:56:16.013 --> 01:56:20.413
One is the fact that people don't know what law is.

01:56:20.613 --> 01:56:26.093
I've seen this a bunch of times, and I want to throttle folks who should know better.

01:56:26.693 --> 01:56:34.693
Executive orders are a kind of law. They have the force of law in certain circumstances.

01:56:35.373 --> 01:56:38.913
Proclamations don't. I mean, they're just proclamations, statements of policy.

01:56:39.133 --> 01:56:43.413
But executive orders do have the force of law. Otherwise, you couldn't challenge them in court.

01:56:44.093 --> 01:56:50.873
And the issue is, what strength does it have in comparison to the other kinds of law that we have?

01:56:50.953 --> 01:56:53.053
We have rules and regulations.

01:56:53.333 --> 01:56:57.953
We have court-made law. Those are things like the Supreme Court decisions.

01:56:58.353 --> 01:57:00.133
And we have legislation.

01:57:00.613 --> 01:57:03.853
And when people think about law, they often think about legislation.

01:57:03.853 --> 01:57:06.633
So they think about the law that's made by Congress.

01:57:07.033 --> 01:57:10.853
And, you know, it's introduced in the House or the Senate, passed by the other

01:57:10.853 --> 01:57:14.073
House, then goes up to the president for a signature. That's a statute.

01:57:14.753 --> 01:57:18.473
And people don't seem to, like, I'll see this constantly.

01:57:18.753 --> 01:57:21.793
It'll say, you know, executive orders or EOs aren't law. No,

01:57:22.053 --> 01:57:26.513
no, they are. They just aren't as strong and they can be overturned by the courts.

01:57:26.873 --> 01:57:29.273
And so it's really important that people not brush that off.

01:57:29.433 --> 01:57:32.993
I'm also one thousand percent with Melba on this.

01:57:33.493 --> 01:57:35.853
Pam Bondi should never have been confirmed.

01:57:36.693 --> 01:57:42.893
Facts. Sorry. She should never have been confirmed. And the people in the Senate

01:57:42.893 --> 01:57:46.893
should be ashamed of themselves and they should turn their bar licenses in.

01:57:47.033 --> 01:57:51.373
Because Pam Bondi was on the team for the first impeachment.

01:57:51.573 --> 01:57:58.553
That made her have a conflict of interest that lasts until beyond her client's death.

01:57:58.773 --> 01:58:05.653
And so she can't represent the Department of Justice, which is the attorney for the government.

01:58:05.853 --> 01:58:10.673
And ultimately, the people versus Donald Trump personally.

01:58:11.193 --> 01:58:15.473
And we've heard her misrepresent what her function is repeatedly in the press.

01:58:15.753 --> 01:58:17.693
She should be disbarred.

01:58:18.053 --> 01:58:24.833
And I certainly hope to have somebody in the D.C. bar is pursuing this. In the bar?

01:58:25.473 --> 01:58:32.133
Or the Florida bar? Any of the bars would be good because of reciprocity. But if you are a U.S.

01:58:32.533 --> 01:58:35.633
Attorney, I mean, a U.S. attorney or even an assistant U.S. attorney,

01:58:36.233 --> 01:58:40.293
anybody who's acting in the role of an attorney in this Department of Justice

01:58:40.293 --> 01:58:45.033
and you disagree with what you're being told to do, you have an obligation to

01:58:45.033 --> 01:58:48.313
quit after you remonstrate with leadership.

01:58:49.376 --> 01:58:54.036
An obligation to quit. And frankly, I would quit rather than get fired because

01:58:54.036 --> 01:58:55.496
I can justify the quitting.

01:58:55.796 --> 01:59:01.696
The firing can get ugly for you if you're applying to jobs. But quit.

01:59:02.056 --> 01:59:06.176
Quit because the rules of professional conduct for lawyers actually matter.

01:59:06.656 --> 01:59:12.336
They actually matter. And it just seems like any rule or law or,

01:59:12.536 --> 01:59:14.436
oh, I don't know, the Constitution,

01:59:14.796 --> 01:59:17.896
all of this stuff has just gone out the window

01:59:17.896 --> 01:59:21.216
like none of it seems to matter anymore and and

01:59:21.216 --> 01:59:24.016
it's not norms it's it's it is

01:59:24.016 --> 01:59:27.456
these things don't seem to matter in people's consciousness and

01:59:27.456 --> 01:59:30.376
i don't i don't get it and i i would

01:59:30.376 --> 01:59:34.636
actually slightly disagree on one small fact i think that you might be better

01:59:34.636 --> 01:59:38.136
off getting fired and the reason why is number one at least you can get unemployment

01:59:38.136 --> 01:59:42.996
because again you know if you haven't been stacking your checks like planning

01:59:42.996 --> 01:59:47.576
for oh my gosh you know i didn't realized I was going to be working for a tyrant, right?

01:59:47.836 --> 01:59:52.916
Most people don't have that money stashed away to be able to pay their rent

01:59:52.916 --> 01:59:57.536
and all of that for a few months until they get a new job. And this is a tough job market.

01:59:57.716 --> 02:00:02.296
Now, I think also, depending on where you're applying to, a lot of assistant U.S.

02:00:02.376 --> 02:00:05.536
Attorneys, if they leave, they generally go to big firms.

02:00:05.556 --> 02:00:09.436
So if they're applying to firms that are currently fighting this administration,

02:00:09.776 --> 02:00:13.316
which is where I think you would apply. You wouldn't apply to one of those that rolled over.

02:00:13.456 --> 02:00:17.776
I almost think getting fired is a badge of honor in certain circles.

02:00:18.296 --> 02:00:20.016
But, you know, and I, you know, they're.

02:00:21.019 --> 02:00:24.119
It can still get messy, right? But then also, too, you may be able to preserve

02:00:24.119 --> 02:00:26.759
a case for wrongful termination later on down the line, too.

02:00:27.019 --> 02:00:29.879
So everybody's situation is different.

02:00:30.799 --> 02:00:33.959
Yeah, no, and I hear that. And I absolutely hear that. Where I'm coming from

02:00:33.959 --> 02:00:38.459
on it is, first of all, you want to maintain what we call your ticket,

02:00:38.659 --> 02:00:40.959
right? You want to maintain that ticket, that license.

02:00:41.219 --> 02:00:44.939
And so if they're doing bad stuff, that stuff may bounce back on you at some

02:00:44.939 --> 02:00:48.279
point. So if you quit, you have repudiated whatever they've asked you to do.

02:00:48.559 --> 02:00:52.219
But also, So, you know, constructive discharge is a thing. It's the hardest

02:00:52.219 --> 02:00:55.959
claim to make, but it is something that, it is a thing.

02:00:56.399 --> 02:01:02.399
And I hope they aren't going to work for those big firms that are just bending and kissing rings.

02:01:03.019 --> 02:01:05.879
I mean, that's jumping from the fire pan into the fire.

02:01:06.859 --> 02:01:13.599
To get back, to get to the Pam Bundy point, why do you think that nobody has

02:01:13.599 --> 02:01:19.879
made the effort to have her disbarred? She is clearly, I understand your point, Dr.

02:01:20.039 --> 02:01:26.179
Pearson on, or Tracy, on her conflict of interest.

02:01:26.359 --> 02:01:28.479
And that should have been brought up in the hearing.

02:01:28.899 --> 02:01:33.279
Well, I guess it was between Stackhouse and a couple of the others.

02:01:33.439 --> 02:01:36.979
I think they, you know, probed it as well as they could.

02:01:36.979 --> 02:01:43.699
But just this whole issue about due process, it would seem like, you know,

02:01:43.859 --> 02:01:50.839
that her actions since she has been sworn in would indicate that she is not

02:01:50.839 --> 02:01:58.079
ethically following the law as far as the practice of law, as far as being a U.S.

02:01:58.439 --> 02:02:04.379
Attorney general, as far as being separated from the president and then going

02:02:04.379 --> 02:02:09.999
on TV shows. and basically saying, yeah, we're not going to offer due process.

02:02:10.339 --> 02:02:14.279
That would seem like to me, if I was an attorney in Georgia,

02:02:14.459 --> 02:02:18.979
the minute that I would have, or a DA, and the minute I said,

02:02:19.379 --> 02:02:23.959
no, we're just going to send him straight to Milledgeville, to the prison.

02:02:24.059 --> 02:02:26.339
We're not even going to have a trial for him.

02:02:27.639 --> 02:02:32.859
Everybody, the governor would be like calling a special session to have me disbarred, you know?

02:02:32.859 --> 02:02:39.479
So I'm trying to figure out why nobody in the legal circles that could mount

02:02:39.479 --> 02:02:40.619
that kind of a challenge,

02:02:40.859 --> 02:02:43.819
especially even in Melbourne, in your home state in Florida,

02:02:43.839 --> 02:02:49.599
it would seem like somebody would say, yeah, no, I don't think you need to be practicing law.

02:02:49.599 --> 02:02:53.739
If that's your attitude, then we need to take that license because your license

02:02:53.739 --> 02:02:57.299
and, you know, I didn't go to law school and all that, but I understand that

02:02:57.299 --> 02:03:01.399
once you get your license from the state and that gives you.

02:03:02.735 --> 02:03:05.455
Well, I don't know if there's a step you have to take, but that gives you the

02:03:05.455 --> 02:03:10.195
right to practice law in the Supreme Court, in the federal courts, because they give you,

02:03:10.455 --> 02:03:16.055
I've seen every law office I've been to, there's that state law bar license

02:03:16.055 --> 02:03:20.595
and then the big pretty things with the capital on it that says you can practice

02:03:20.595 --> 02:03:21.775
law at the federal level.

02:03:21.955 --> 02:03:26.035
So it seemed like if she was disbarred at a state that she couldn't be attorney

02:03:26.035 --> 02:03:29.155
general because she couldn't practice law in D.C. either.

02:03:29.855 --> 02:03:36.015
Well, sort of, kind of, kind of. So, when you're barred, what ends up happening

02:03:36.015 --> 02:03:40.815
is that you can practice in the highest state court of your state.

02:03:40.955 --> 02:03:43.935
So, it might be in the instance of Florida, I'm barred in Florida,

02:03:43.935 --> 02:03:46.995
so I can practice in front of the Supreme Court of Florida.

02:03:47.195 --> 02:03:52.415
Now, if I want to practice in federal court, I then have to be barred federally.

02:03:52.895 --> 02:03:57.055
And that's also jurisdiction by jurisdiction. Now, separately,

02:03:57.315 --> 02:04:00.395
for instance, I'm barred in the District of Columbia, so I can practice law

02:04:00.395 --> 02:04:02.155
in Florida or in the District of Columbia.

02:04:02.895 --> 02:04:07.095
For the U.S. attorney, attorney general, whatever, you just have to be barred

02:04:07.095 --> 02:04:08.135
somewhere in the country.

02:04:08.475 --> 02:04:12.895
So even if, let's say, she was disbarred in Florida, if she still had a D.C.

02:04:13.035 --> 02:04:15.355
Admission, she could still be attorney general.

02:04:15.575 --> 02:04:20.275
Now, if Florida was the only barred admission she had and that was taken away,

02:04:20.675 --> 02:04:22.875
well, then now there's a serious issue.

02:04:23.155 --> 02:04:27.755
Now, but to go to your question, Erik, I think that people are still afraid.

02:04:29.576 --> 02:04:33.656
I think it's slightly different than the situation with Giuliani,

02:04:33.916 --> 02:04:38.916
how his law license was revoked in New York and there was, and I think in D.C. as well.

02:04:39.476 --> 02:04:41.716
And again, it was already after he

02:04:41.716 --> 02:04:46.156
had gone to trial and all of this other foolishness came out. Excuse me.

02:04:46.756 --> 02:04:51.796
It's that he lost kind of all relevance and power and like nobody was afraid

02:04:51.796 --> 02:04:53.396
of him anymore. He didn't have access.

02:04:53.676 --> 02:04:56.856
There wasn't, you know, a fear of retribution or anything like that.

02:04:56.936 --> 02:05:00.316
So I guess folks went and kicked him when he was down, which I have no issue

02:05:00.316 --> 02:05:03.996
with, and rightfully so, and then he was able to be disbarred.

02:05:04.096 --> 02:05:08.836
I think people are still afraid of the access and power that Pam Bondi has at the moment.

02:05:09.636 --> 02:05:12.756
And, you know, I do think someone needs to be brave and do it.

02:05:12.896 --> 02:05:19.456
But again, knowing that she supervises the U.S. attorneys in the state of Florida.

02:05:19.836 --> 02:05:24.056
So even if you don't do criminal practice or whatever the case may be,

02:05:24.256 --> 02:05:29.376
somehow something funny can happen in your world and you end up in the federal

02:05:29.376 --> 02:05:30.276
criminal system, right?

02:05:30.356 --> 02:05:34.276
So I think people are afraid of that backlash and that's why it hasn't been done.

02:05:34.556 --> 02:05:39.056
Now, I think maybe by year two, year three of the administration,

02:05:39.056 --> 02:05:43.696
when you start to get into like Lane Duckville, because usually most U.S.

02:05:44.116 --> 02:05:47.196
Attorneys, sorry, most attorney generals and U.S. attorneys as well,

02:05:47.316 --> 02:05:50.616
don't last past one administration.

02:05:50.796 --> 02:05:54.276
So So whether it's, you know, we saw this in the Biden administration,

02:05:54.276 --> 02:05:57.396
the attorney general served for both Biden terms.

02:05:57.596 --> 02:06:00.876
But if you look at, you know, in Obama's term, you had Eric Garner.

02:06:01.636 --> 02:06:03.296
Right? I didn't say that wrong. Eric Holder.

02:06:03.876 --> 02:06:06.816
Eric Holder, right? I'm like, wrong Eric, right?

02:06:07.136 --> 02:06:10.376
Yeah, Eric Holder. And then you also had Loretta Lynch, right?

02:06:10.536 --> 02:06:12.536
So you had two different ones.

02:06:12.856 --> 02:06:18.096
But I think that once you kind of get towards the end of that presidential term,

02:06:18.316 --> 02:06:21.296
that's where maybe you might see some activity. because, again,

02:06:21.556 --> 02:06:22.996
they're less afraid of repercussions.

02:06:23.416 --> 02:06:27.316
My thought. I think, and everything that Melville said is right,

02:06:27.456 --> 02:06:32.856
but there's another interesting path, which is, and for me, when I was admitted

02:06:32.856 --> 02:06:35.136
to the bar, I was admitted to my state bar, and then,

02:06:35.496 --> 02:06:39.776
I don't know if my state was unique this way, but I was also admitted into the

02:06:39.776 --> 02:06:43.776
federal bar just per forma, and you had to show up and put your hand up and

02:06:43.776 --> 02:06:47.836
do the whole thing, and it was a cute little ceremony, and you got your certificate.

02:06:48.316 --> 02:06:51.016
That's the one that you're talking about sort of with the, you know,

02:06:51.076 --> 02:06:52.036
the Capitol and everything on it.

02:06:52.716 --> 02:06:56.136
And the Supreme Court's a different story. It's a special admission that you

02:06:56.136 --> 02:06:59.936
have to be sponsored and apply and the whole thing. And it's great. It's wonderful.

02:07:00.156 --> 02:07:05.436
But most lawyers don't practice in the Supreme Court. So it's an honor thing, I think.

02:07:06.076 --> 02:07:10.416
And I don't have admission in the Supreme Court. It's a trip down to D.C. It's the whole thing.

02:07:10.716 --> 02:07:16.256
But when it comes to the federal courts, this is where it kind of gets a little fun.

02:07:16.516 --> 02:07:21.216
And that is, judges can revoke your ability to practice there.

02:07:22.208 --> 02:07:25.308
Because it's not necessarily, you can practice in your state,

02:07:25.468 --> 02:07:27.448
that's fine, but you cannot practice in this court.

02:07:27.828 --> 02:07:32.308
And so if you're doing something, you're in contempt, you're the lawyer who

02:07:32.308 --> 02:07:35.108
now I'm finding you in contempt as a lawyer.

02:07:35.408 --> 02:07:39.948
They will open proceedings in the court, in the federal court,

02:07:40.128 --> 02:07:44.768
to hold you accountable and bar you from practicing in that federal court.

02:07:44.988 --> 02:07:47.788
They have jurisdiction over their own court system.

02:07:48.208 --> 02:07:51.908
And then they'll also, sometimes they'll just refer attorneys to the state bar.

02:07:52.208 --> 02:07:56.748
But they can actually stop it, stop you from appearing in that court.

02:07:57.308 --> 02:08:03.548
And I've seen it happen to lawyers. I've seen lawyers face the potential of it. It's very rare.

02:08:03.988 --> 02:08:09.668
But I think in this situation, when we're talking about the gentleman in El Salvador,

02:08:09.908 --> 02:08:14.308
who's been sent to El Salvador and doesn't belong there, and they're not cooperating

02:08:14.308 --> 02:08:20.648
with orders, and they're not, they are lying, they are manufacturing evidence,

02:08:20.648 --> 02:08:24.368
And they are firing the assistant U.S.

02:08:24.708 --> 02:08:28.848
Attorneys who are telling the court the truth because the rules of professional

02:08:28.848 --> 02:08:33.648
conduct are not in order of importance. The most important rule is 3.3,

02:08:33.888 --> 02:08:35.848
which is hand her to the tribunal.

02:08:36.148 --> 02:08:42.508
And so you must tell the court the truth. And if you are asked a question by

02:08:42.508 --> 02:08:45.208
the judge, you must answer that question.

02:08:46.048 --> 02:08:51.688
And that lawyer who ended up being put on administrative leave, and I think fired.

02:08:52.950 --> 02:08:58.330
Who actually answered the court honestly. He was following, I think it was he,

02:08:58.530 --> 02:09:00.190
was following the rules.

02:09:00.430 --> 02:09:05.550
You have to tell the truth. Otherwise, the entire judicial system falls apart.

02:09:05.710 --> 02:09:07.550
That's why it's the most important rule.

02:09:07.770 --> 02:09:12.810
You have to remonstrate with your client. If your client is doing something,

02:09:12.810 --> 02:09:16.510
you know, stupid that could result in lying to the court.

02:09:16.810 --> 02:09:20.270
I had a client once who did lie to the court.

02:09:20.630 --> 02:09:26.050
And it wasn't, when I say it wasn't intentional, it wasn't like they contrived to do it.

02:09:26.250 --> 02:09:33.790
But I had that person file an affidavit saying, I made a misstatement of fact.

02:09:34.270 --> 02:09:39.750
I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to do it. But this, you know, and an explanation.

02:09:40.030 --> 02:09:44.430
And I made the lawyer, or rather the client do that because it was so critical

02:09:44.430 --> 02:09:48.230
that the court have truthful information and it was going to impact the rest

02:09:48.230 --> 02:09:50.510
of the case. He couldn't look like a liar.

02:09:50.870 --> 02:09:57.590
So I think that this case in particular is one, and thank God I'm not that judge,

02:09:57.870 --> 02:10:01.750
because they are going to really

02:10:01.750 --> 02:10:07.110
have to think about what the range of consequences are at their disposal.

02:10:07.590 --> 02:10:15.310
And given the fact that Pam Bondi controls federal law enforcement to a degree, like U.S. marshals.

02:10:16.250 --> 02:10:20.250
How are we going to enforce these orders that are being issued?

02:10:21.090 --> 02:10:26.830
Yeah, and that's been a big topic of the discussion as far as the enforcement,

02:10:26.830 --> 02:10:31.690
because a lot of people just think, you know, well, you know,

02:10:31.810 --> 02:10:36.010
if they don't follow the order, then they can just send the U.S.

02:10:36.170 --> 02:10:39.490
Marshals go and say, no, the U.S. marshals fall under the attorney general.

02:10:40.230 --> 02:10:45.190
So, you know, if the judge, and the judge doesn't have that.

02:10:45.670 --> 02:10:49.090
Well, they were trying to, somebody was trying to explain that the judges have

02:10:49.090 --> 02:10:57.630
some kind of power where they can designate somebody to carry out a contempt order.

02:10:58.390 --> 02:11:01.510
And, you know, it's like, I don't think the judges have the same power.

02:11:01.710 --> 02:11:06.750
Like if, if something is going on in a particular state, then the president

02:11:06.750 --> 02:11:11.150
of the United States can, can deputize the National Guard,

02:11:11.390 --> 02:11:17.690
federalize it and, you know, and give a direct order superseding the governor of that state, right?

02:11:17.990 --> 02:11:21.890
I don't think judges have that same ability, but they were saying there's some

02:11:21.890 --> 02:11:28.550
kind of special, like, prosecutor or some kind of special marshal that they can appoint.

02:11:28.930 --> 02:11:33.570
And I, of course, all this stuff is new, so I had never heard that before.

02:11:33.990 --> 02:11:36.510
Have any of y'all heard that kind of power before?

02:11:37.818 --> 02:11:41.718
Have not, but also I don't really do a lot of federal practice.

02:11:42.018 --> 02:11:49.238
So, you know, I think sort of we're conflating two things.

02:11:49.378 --> 02:11:55.238
One is who enforces the orders, but the other is who prosecutes the thing that needs prosecuting.

02:11:55.378 --> 02:12:03.118
And so the court can appoint an attorney to prosecute an issue if the DOJ won't

02:12:03.118 --> 02:12:05.718
do it under very special circumstances.

02:12:06.158 --> 02:12:11.538
And this has been talked about, I think, in one of one of the orders that we're going to do it this way.

02:12:12.018 --> 02:12:15.578
And these are the steps we're going to follow. And right now we're at that first

02:12:15.578 --> 02:12:17.318
step where we're going to do some discovery.

02:12:17.678 --> 02:12:21.138
And then we're going to decide, you know, as we get more information,

02:12:21.678 --> 02:12:25.798
you know, whether we're whether either the DOJ is going to do some prosecuting,

02:12:25.918 --> 02:12:28.318
if there's something to be prosecuted here after we do discovery,

02:12:28.318 --> 02:12:31.698
or if not, I'm going to appoint an attorney to do the prosecuting.

02:12:31.778 --> 02:12:34.678
And a federal judge can, in fact, do that.

02:12:35.038 --> 02:12:40.698
So in essence, though, but because I think the judge, the lower court judge,

02:12:40.898 --> 02:12:44.758
the district judge is Paula Xinis, I think her name is.

02:12:45.058 --> 02:12:50.858
And I think she's the one who is trying to figure out, as you were pointing

02:12:50.858 --> 02:12:59.658
out, Tracy, what what she can do if she finds that, you know, they.

02:13:00.638 --> 02:13:04.898
If they did something wrong, they're not following the order that she gave.

02:13:05.198 --> 02:13:11.098
She's trying to figure out what she can do in order to get compliance.

02:13:11.458 --> 02:13:22.458
And quickly explain the word salad game that they were playing with facilitate and expedite, right?

02:13:24.118 --> 02:13:30.398
So Judge Zinnis said that the administration needs to facilitate and expedite

02:13:30.398 --> 02:13:32.258
Mr. Abrego Garcia's return.

02:13:32.598 --> 02:13:37.618
Then the Supreme Court turned around and said that the administration needs

02:13:37.618 --> 02:13:41.298
to facilitate, but deliberately left out the word expedite.

02:13:41.638 --> 02:13:45.718
And so and then the administration started running around and saying,

02:13:45.878 --> 02:13:47.198
oh, that's a victory for us.

02:13:47.398 --> 02:13:50.838
It just says we have to facilitate doesn't mean we have to expedite.

02:13:50.838 --> 02:13:55.178
And then another judge came back and said, yeah, so facilitate means a little

02:13:55.178 --> 02:13:56.198
more than what you think.

02:13:56.358 --> 02:14:00.138
I think, you know, it's one thing to just pick up the phone and say,

02:14:00.198 --> 02:14:03.358
hey, you want to bring him back? No. Okay, cool. It's a little more effort than that.

02:14:03.758 --> 02:14:09.118
So y'all kind of talk why the administration is trying to play this word salad game.

02:14:10.335 --> 02:14:16.415
Don't want to do it plain and simple they're looking for a way and and that's something that,

02:14:16.955 --> 02:14:20.235
i'd never like to give him credit for anything but they've

02:14:20.235 --> 02:14:27.635
been very good at taking something that is basic a basic word like the and twisting

02:14:27.635 --> 02:14:30.915
it 10 different ways from sunrise where you're sitting there like does that

02:14:30.915 --> 02:14:33.115
really mean what i think it's like

02:14:33.115 --> 02:14:38.215
am i you know it almost it's like a gaslighting on an epic level, right?

02:14:38.375 --> 02:14:40.695
And so we all know what facilitate means.

02:14:40.895 --> 02:14:45.575
It means you need to pick up the phone, get him over there, you know,

02:14:45.715 --> 02:14:47.895
hey, what do we need to do, and get him back.

02:14:48.055 --> 02:14:54.215
Now, the expedite thing, that was problematic because, again, you know, Mr.

02:14:54.615 --> 02:15:00.695
Abrego Garcia needed to come back yesterday, basically, and they're going to

02:15:00.695 --> 02:15:02.715
drag their feet on it. And we know that.

02:15:02.835 --> 02:15:05.635
We know this administration is going to drag their feet. So that's why it was

02:15:05.635 --> 02:15:10.235
very problematic that the Supreme Court didn't also say you needed to expedite

02:15:10.235 --> 02:15:12.895
it because they could be like, sure, we'll bring him back in three years.

02:15:13.835 --> 02:15:18.495
Yeah. He's going to be even alive in three years, you know, but facilitate means

02:15:18.495 --> 02:15:20.155
you need to bring him back.

02:15:20.415 --> 02:15:22.515
You need to do more than just pick, you know, like you said,

02:15:22.595 --> 02:15:25.095
pick up the phone. Now you don't want to do it. Click. No, you need to.

02:15:25.235 --> 02:15:28.195
What do I need to give you? Or do I need to do a trade?

02:15:28.475 --> 02:15:32.355
Whatever it is, you got to figure it out and make sure he comes back.

02:15:33.542 --> 02:15:40.802
I've been frustrated with folks in the social media area because people are primed.

02:15:40.902 --> 02:15:46.302
They are very much primed to, they hate the Supreme Court. They hate this.

02:15:46.422 --> 02:15:50.882
They hate this. If this isn't happening the way that they want it to, then that person's bad.

02:15:51.262 --> 02:15:57.462
And when I saw the order that said facilitate, I went, good, because that's legal.

02:15:58.142 --> 02:16:01.762
The United States cannot, the U.S.

02:16:01.842 --> 02:16:07.002
Supreme Court cannot order a party that is not before it to do something.

02:16:07.242 --> 02:16:11.822
So it cannot order El Salvador to return this man.

02:16:12.002 --> 02:16:18.902
It can only order the United States to facilitate his return.

02:16:19.562 --> 02:16:29.362
Now, what I have said is that the family needs to sue El Salvador or bring El Salvador into the case.

02:16:29.362 --> 02:16:33.042
And I always thought, well, why don't why didn't they do that from the very

02:16:33.042 --> 02:16:38.562
beginning to some degree and have a original jurisdiction out of the U.S. Supreme Court?

02:16:38.782 --> 02:16:40.842
Because it would be a, you know, another nation.

02:16:41.582 --> 02:16:47.922
But I think that that people really need to stop like they are just everything

02:16:47.922 --> 02:16:52.722
is bad and they're operating on this dysregulated dysregulated nervous system response.

02:16:52.722 --> 02:16:58.522
And people really need to think through or ask people that do understand it

02:16:58.522 --> 02:17:01.842
why something is happening rather than reacting to it.

02:17:02.062 --> 02:17:06.322
And it's really hard to do when we're in crisis, but there's so much bad information

02:17:06.322 --> 02:17:08.062
out there. So I'm glad that you asked that question.

02:17:08.562 --> 02:17:11.502
Why are they not doing it?

02:17:11.622 --> 02:17:15.302
They're not doing it because Donald Trump has never taken responsibility for

02:17:15.302 --> 02:17:19.202
a single thing in his life, except things that he claims are good.

02:17:20.264 --> 02:17:27.864
And nothing, nothing. It's outrageous. It's absolutely blatantly freaking wrong.

02:17:28.184 --> 02:17:32.224
They know it's wrong. They aren't doing anything about it.

02:17:32.424 --> 02:17:38.144
And they're manufacturing evidence on this man's hand to justify something.

02:17:38.144 --> 02:17:42.304
And it's absolutely insane because

02:17:42.304 --> 02:17:45.384
it's not just about this man it's about every

02:17:45.384 --> 02:17:51.964
single one of us whether you are black whether you are white whether you you

02:17:51.964 --> 02:17:56.844
are somebody who is asian whether you're somebody who comes from from a you

02:17:56.844 --> 02:18:04.184
know a latina heritage it is it is it is just it's every single one of us because,

02:18:04.344 --> 02:18:09.144
see, we're having this conversation right now, and this conversation could be

02:18:09.144 --> 02:18:12.244
determined to be unlawful with an executive order tomorrow.

02:18:12.764 --> 02:18:18.684
And so it's every single one of us that has to be concerned about what's happening here with this.

02:18:18.824 --> 02:18:21.904
It's not just about this man. Yeah. Yeah.

02:18:22.664 --> 02:18:27.444
You know, people used to accuse me of being a lawyer, but they also used to

02:18:27.444 --> 02:18:30.584
accuse me of being a preacher too. So take that for what you will.

02:18:31.384 --> 02:18:37.264
But, you know, I never studied the law like that, you know, formally.

02:18:37.684 --> 02:18:40.544
And, you know, although I did have a privilege to make some,

02:18:40.704 --> 02:18:48.404
you know, but I never practiced. So I just, I don't really get what's going on.

02:18:48.984 --> 02:18:54.964
And the biggest thing that's troubling me is these law firms, right?

02:18:55.524 --> 02:19:01.164
So it's like, you know, I remember back in 1989, in Mississippi,

02:19:01.164 --> 02:19:02.664
we had a very unique situation.

02:19:02.664 --> 02:19:07.984
We were trying to get black lawyers elected to the Chancery Court because in

02:19:07.984 --> 02:19:11.604
Mississippi, the Chancery Court deals with property matters as well as,

02:19:11.624 --> 02:19:15.704
you know, divorce and all the other stuff, but probate, you know.

02:19:15.884 --> 02:19:21.824
And so we didn't have any black Chancery judges.

02:19:22.404 --> 02:19:25.744
And so a lot of lawyers got elected.

02:19:26.244 --> 02:19:32.924
So what happened, there was a lot of firms that were dissolved because those

02:19:32.924 --> 02:19:34.544
lawyers now were moving to the bench.

02:19:34.944 --> 02:19:38.904
And so there was a lot of reorganization going on. And I was doing my best behind

02:19:38.904 --> 02:19:43.004
the scenes to try to encourage people, especially in Jackson,

02:19:43.184 --> 02:19:46.964
to say, we need to have a black super law firm. Right.

02:19:47.064 --> 02:19:51.364
We need to get all y'all together on one big firm and, you know,

02:19:52.164 --> 02:19:57.004
you know, compete with the Butler Snows and the Phelps Dunbars and all those

02:19:57.004 --> 02:19:58.564
other big firms that were in Jackson.

02:19:59.584 --> 02:20:02.724
Needless to say, it did not happen. And I'll have to tell you all the story

02:20:02.724 --> 02:20:04.024
off the air because we don't have time.

02:20:04.224 --> 02:20:12.004
But why it didn't. But my mindset was a super law firm was what everybody was

02:20:12.004 --> 02:20:14.024
seeking to either achieve.

02:20:14.602 --> 02:20:20.002
Or get to in their law practice. If you could get to one of those big firms, you made it.

02:20:20.282 --> 02:20:22.802
And it's like you're guaranteed money.

02:20:23.522 --> 02:20:29.862
You've got all these resources behind you to litigate your case and do whatever you got to do.

02:20:31.022 --> 02:20:37.622
And so when I'm seeing law firms who have been established for a number of years

02:20:37.622 --> 02:20:42.942
who represent Democrats, Republicans, dogs, cats before the federal court

02:20:43.362 --> 02:20:48.602
and just, you know, and do, you know, you know, and just, you know, they walk around.

02:20:48.842 --> 02:20:52.162
I think there was some type of term that they used to use for those firms,

02:20:52.302 --> 02:20:54.642
like the white shoe firms. White shoe. Yeah.

02:20:55.942 --> 02:21:00.922
It's like, you would think that if there was anybody that, as the president

02:21:00.922 --> 02:21:06.182
of the United States, I wouldn't want to go to court against or challenge, it would be those firms.

02:21:06.542 --> 02:21:10.742
Now, you know, it was a little old firm of, you know, Erik Fleming and, you know,

02:21:10.862 --> 02:21:14.522
Foggy Bog, hogsworth or whatever you know what i'm saying it's

02:21:14.522 --> 02:21:17.622
like we got this little practice in atlanta we we went as

02:21:17.622 --> 02:21:20.342
the david trying to slay goliath yeah we're probably

02:21:20.342 --> 02:21:23.682
gonna get smoked you know what i'm saying we're probably gonna oh yeah the president's

02:21:23.682 --> 02:21:28.982
gonna treat us like stepchildren but these white shoe firms i don't understand

02:21:28.982 --> 02:21:34.182
why they're bending the knee so y'all y'all practice law y'all y'all interact

02:21:34.182 --> 02:21:39.062
with these people even if you're not members of those firms what Why would a law firm do that?

02:21:40.102 --> 02:21:45.902
First of all, the vast majority of law firms in this country are solo practitioners,

02:21:46.302 --> 02:21:51.722
small law firms like partnerships, or medium-sized firms, which have a very

02:21:51.722 --> 02:21:52.642
small number of attorneys.

02:21:52.922 --> 02:21:56.602
That is the vast majority of law firms in this country, and they're good.

02:21:56.702 --> 02:21:57.902
You find really great ones.

02:21:58.042 --> 02:22:02.162
And if you look at cases that have been decided, you will see that oftentimes

02:22:02.162 --> 02:22:07.842
it is not one of these big law firms. These big law firms need security clearances

02:22:07.842 --> 02:22:12.862
because a lot of them do work in that sector.

02:22:13.102 --> 02:22:16.162
So like the technology sector and they interface with the government,

02:22:16.382 --> 02:22:19.722
their clients need to have security clearances.

02:22:19.722 --> 02:22:23.042
So if you have a client that has a security clearance and you're working on

02:22:23.042 --> 02:22:27.142
something that relates to, let's say, the Department of Defense or that relates

02:22:27.142 --> 02:22:30.222
to something having to do with national security,

02:22:30.422 --> 02:22:37.802
your client can't use you if you can't look at the documents and your client

02:22:37.802 --> 02:22:42.182
doesn't want to be associated with you under those circumstances because they may be at risk.

02:22:42.182 --> 02:22:47.442
That was one of the primary underlying things that struck that first firm.

02:22:47.602 --> 02:22:49.802
They were losing clients and

02:22:49.802 --> 02:22:54.622
their practice that this big law firm was in danger of being decimated.

02:22:55.922 --> 02:22:58.582
Agree with you that the last person you want to sue is an

02:22:58.582 --> 02:23:01.802
attorney because you know we're good

02:23:01.802 --> 02:23:06.722
we know how to think about these things unlike the sort of the the the average

02:23:06.722 --> 02:23:10.482
everyday citizen who isn't trained in the law unfortunately when you get trained

02:23:10.482 --> 02:23:14.242
in the law your brain gets gets you know sort of reorganized in a way that makes

02:23:14.242 --> 02:23:18.802
you you know difficult to talk to but i think.

02:23:19.942 --> 02:23:22.762
And you stop learning how to use techno like the

02:23:22.762 --> 02:23:25.842
photocopier that that goes away too i swear it's

02:23:25.842 --> 02:23:29.462
true staplers just marginal but i

02:23:29.462 --> 02:23:32.842
i think that that that's that is the primary

02:23:32.842 --> 02:23:36.262
driver behind some of this so it is

02:23:36.262 --> 02:23:41.322
it what's happening is outrageous and stupid and i can say that a thousand times

02:23:41.322 --> 02:23:46.542
during this interview outrageous and stupid and i can tell you i would i would

02:23:46.542 --> 02:23:53.982
not have bent the knee and i would have fought it in court and gotten the injunction and and and and,

02:23:54.562 --> 02:23:58.742
done everything I could PR-wise to fight back.

02:23:59.462 --> 02:24:05.222
And it's sad and frustrating. The other thing is that they could be taking sort

02:24:05.222 --> 02:24:10.282
of possibly sort of just very quickly genuflecting, but okay,

02:24:10.422 --> 02:24:11.922
fine, we'll do a hundred, you know,

02:24:12.142 --> 02:24:15.742
however many millions of hours of pro bono service for those people,

02:24:15.822 --> 02:24:17.802
but we're also going to be doing it for the other people too.

02:24:18.302 --> 02:24:22.662
And they also know they have conflicts. So, for example, they can't,

02:24:22.782 --> 02:24:27.822
if you've represented Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party in a particular situation,

02:24:28.122 --> 02:24:32.262
let's say the Democratic National Party in a situation, you can't represent

02:24:32.262 --> 02:24:35.962
the Republican Party because there is a rule that says you can't,

02:24:36.062 --> 02:24:38.942
because there's a conflict of interest there.

02:24:39.122 --> 02:24:42.342
And there is no wall that can be created.

02:24:42.622 --> 02:24:46.962
You're working at opposing interests most of the time. So they may,

02:24:47.242 --> 02:24:50.122
in some ways, be figuring out how to rationalize that in the background.

02:24:50.422 --> 02:24:52.022
I could be completely wrong about that.

02:24:52.562 --> 02:24:57.382
Well, I will say this. I say it's a lack of backbone because the reality is

02:24:57.382 --> 02:25:00.842
you're going to lose clients one way or the other. If you bend the knee.

02:25:01.801 --> 02:25:05.701
End up losing clients and your name is trash. If you stand up and fight,

02:25:05.881 --> 02:25:09.921
you may lose your security clearance, but at least you still have your dignity.

02:25:10.141 --> 02:25:15.141
And folks will be like, listen, I know I can't deal with you right now because of what's going on.

02:25:15.221 --> 02:25:19.501
But as soon as this matter is resolved, I'm coming back, right?

02:25:19.641 --> 02:25:21.301
Because it shows you stand for something.

02:25:21.541 --> 02:25:27.001
This week, it was released that Microsoft fired the firm that they were working

02:25:27.001 --> 02:25:32.241
with because they genuflected to the administration and they hired a firm that

02:25:32.241 --> 02:25:33.321
was fighting the administration.

02:25:33.821 --> 02:25:36.801
So hello to land Microsoft as a client.

02:25:36.981 --> 02:25:41.661
I think that kind of offsets whatever clients you may have lost in the process

02:25:41.661 --> 02:25:43.781
by standing up to this administration.

02:25:44.021 --> 02:25:47.521
And then also, you can't forget what this does internally.

02:25:47.701 --> 02:25:53.661
When I tell you my LinkedIn timeline is filled with associates who have been

02:25:53.661 --> 02:25:57.541
working at these firms and were like, this was my entire dream.

02:25:57.641 --> 02:26:02.941
I was top of my class. I couldn't wait to start working at XYZ firm.

02:26:02.981 --> 02:26:07.661
And now they've genuflected and I can't in good conscience continue to work here.

02:26:07.861 --> 02:26:10.401
And they literally walked out of their dream job.

02:26:10.641 --> 02:26:15.061
So when you have all the people that are going to do the work heading for the

02:26:15.061 --> 02:26:19.081
front door, and you may have trouble now recruiting new people to take their

02:26:19.081 --> 02:26:21.781
place because they're like, no, I don't want to come into this mess.

02:26:21.941 --> 02:26:26.521
I don't want my name now sullied thinking that I co-signed what you did.

02:26:26.521 --> 02:26:31.161
That's going to have long-lasting damage and effects to those firms.

02:26:31.421 --> 02:26:35.881
So it's one of those things that, you know, you kind of pick your poison and

02:26:35.881 --> 02:26:40.601
do you basically want to die with your boots on but with some dignity or do

02:26:40.601 --> 02:26:45.581
you want to basically go out on your back because you genuflected and it still,

02:26:45.781 --> 02:26:51.661
at the end of the day, did not absolve you or have you immune from all of the

02:26:51.661 --> 02:26:56.441
other collateral consequences from being involved during this time. I mean.

02:26:57.310 --> 02:27:02.610
I was just going to say that the folks that called it their dream job,

02:27:02.750 --> 02:27:06.410
I never dreamed to want to work for any of those firms.

02:27:06.550 --> 02:27:11.010
I always saw those firms as defense firms, as business firms,

02:27:11.030 --> 02:27:17.890
as corporate firms, and working for not the human being, but for the entity,

02:27:18.190 --> 02:27:19.750
and so working for the greedy money.

02:27:19.910 --> 02:27:23.790
So I didn't want to do that. And when you work for a firm like that,

02:27:24.170 --> 02:27:30.390
in my, at least in my experience, you spend about seven years bag carrying for people.

02:27:30.610 --> 02:27:35.810
And you sit in the tiny cubicle near the library and you're doing all this research

02:27:35.810 --> 02:27:37.470
and all this writing and you get to go and watch.

02:27:37.650 --> 02:27:42.230
I went out. I started practicing. I was trying a case the day that I got admitted

02:27:42.230 --> 02:27:48.370
to the bar and won. But I started practicing immediately.

02:27:48.790 --> 02:27:53.030
And during law school, the folks that were, you know, sort of headed in that

02:27:53.030 --> 02:27:55.230
direction did different activities than what I was doing.

02:27:55.430 --> 02:27:59.390
I was hustling for every law firm that needed somebody to be a research assistant

02:27:59.390 --> 02:28:03.910
or a law clerk and trying to gain actual practice experience.

02:28:03.910 --> 02:28:08.910
So I think that the advantage of those big law firms is a lot of money.

02:28:09.150 --> 02:28:10.830
There's a lot of money in those jobs.

02:28:11.210 --> 02:28:16.650
And you work your butt off on billable hours because it is hard to achieve the

02:28:16.650 --> 02:28:18.110
billable hours that they're looking for.

02:28:18.610 --> 02:28:23.410
And yeah, you get status and you get money, but you also have to deal with all this.

02:28:23.910 --> 02:28:30.110
And I am so hopeful. And I have those lawyers in my thoughts who have had to leave at that.

02:28:30.290 --> 02:28:33.870
You know, the universe is going to put you in the right place at the right time

02:28:33.870 --> 02:28:35.390
to do the thing that you were meant to do.

02:28:36.190 --> 02:28:40.910
And and good for them for leaving. Yeah, because, you know, that that was the

02:28:40.910 --> 02:28:44.710
point, you know, Melville was making to me is like, you know,

02:28:44.750 --> 02:28:45.970
it's one thing to lose clients.

02:28:46.170 --> 02:28:51.010
But if you start losing the lawyers, then it's like you can't even maintain

02:28:51.010 --> 02:28:54.610
the firm at this particular point. I appreciate the angle, Tracy,

02:28:54.730 --> 02:28:56.050
that you were bringing in about.

02:28:57.166 --> 02:29:01.286
Maybe this Jedi mind trick kind of thing where it's like, yeah,

02:29:01.286 --> 02:29:07.426
we can say that we're going to give so many hours, but knowing that there will

02:29:07.426 --> 02:29:10.006
be a conflict and we really can't do that.

02:29:10.526 --> 02:29:15.566
See, but the only reason why I don't I don't I don't jive with that is because

02:29:15.566 --> 02:29:19.566
Donald Trump's got his hands in so much dirty stuff.

02:29:19.746 --> 02:29:26.406
Him, his family, his associates, all these guys, you know, and I'm looking at

02:29:26.406 --> 02:29:27.146
this whole cryptography.

02:29:27.166 --> 02:29:33.386
Thing, I'm thinking most of that, you know, all these emoluments that he's getting,

02:29:33.766 --> 02:29:41.706
that's what he's trying to, he's trying to build a legal team when the Democrats take over.

02:29:41.846 --> 02:29:47.146
Because if it was me, now maybe I'm too petty and that's probably why I'm not

02:29:47.146 --> 02:29:48.446
in elected politics anymore.

02:29:48.666 --> 02:29:54.806
But the minute that the Democrats, if they flip both houses,

02:29:55.026 --> 02:29:58.106
if they flip the house in the Senate, they're going to go after,

02:29:58.306 --> 02:30:00.726
in my mindset, they would be going after impeachment.

02:30:01.546 --> 02:30:06.846
And what Donald Trump is doing, it seems like he's blackmailing these firms and say, OK,

02:30:07.386 --> 02:30:12.066
when the Democrats come at me this time, I'm going to have these white shoe

02:30:12.066 --> 02:30:17.186
lawyers coming in, the best law firms or at that time, the best law firms in D.C.

02:30:17.366 --> 02:30:21.946
Walking into the Capitol building and trying to defend me against, you know,

02:30:22.106 --> 02:30:25.746
whatever impeachment or whatever charges they're going to bring against me or

02:30:25.746 --> 02:30:32.306
Pam Bundy or cash Patel or Pete Hex of it, you know, any one of these,

02:30:32.306 --> 02:30:33.886
these cast of characters, right.

02:30:34.226 --> 02:30:37.526
I think that's what, that's what he's lining this up to do.

02:30:37.666 --> 02:30:43.546
I think he, you know, his, his end game is always get out of jail free. That's that. I.

02:30:44.184 --> 02:30:47.224
I was going to say, I agree and disagree simultaneously. I agree that,

02:30:47.404 --> 02:30:52.984
yes, he's definitely, you know, trying to create basically a mini task force

02:30:52.984 --> 02:30:55.404
of attorneys to protect him in the future.

02:30:55.424 --> 02:30:59.804
But also, remember the executive order that just came out around,

02:30:59.824 --> 02:31:02.164
you know, law enforcement and all of that.

02:31:02.164 --> 02:31:08.284
And basically, he is going to have these firms or attorneys are going to be

02:31:08.284 --> 02:31:13.064
provided to law enforcement members who, and I'm paraphrasing,

02:31:13.244 --> 02:31:19.024
but basically who end up getting prosecuted for, you know, executing their duties

02:31:19.024 --> 02:31:21.564
and being, you know, tough on crime and all of this.

02:31:21.984 --> 02:31:26.124
Read between the lines. Department of Justice basically no longer has a civil rights division.

02:31:26.124 --> 02:31:30.764
Like the name is there, but they're not doing the typical work of,

02:31:30.884 --> 02:31:35.464
you know, going after police departments that have a pattern in practice of

02:31:35.464 --> 02:31:38.804
abusing marginalized communities or things like that.

02:31:38.924 --> 02:31:43.284
So they came in in the wake of Louisville, Memphis, like every single high profile

02:31:43.284 --> 02:31:47.664
police brutality case, the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division would,

02:31:47.824 --> 02:31:49.244
you know, come in and investigate.

02:31:49.564 --> 02:31:54.544
So in this new executive order, he's basically like, no, I'm going to up the

02:31:54.544 --> 02:31:59.024
ante. I want cops to go out and brutalize these communities and that I'm going

02:31:59.024 --> 02:32:01.864
to have these white shoe firms defend them.

02:32:02.946 --> 02:32:07.906
And so rather than having the DOJ prosecute them, he's going to find ways to

02:32:07.906 --> 02:32:12.706
defend them, which then incentivizes more racial profiling and more abuse of

02:32:12.706 --> 02:32:13.786
marginalized communities.

02:32:13.986 --> 02:32:16.566
So I think it's multifold.

02:32:16.766 --> 02:32:22.646
It's protecting himself, but it's also throwing a bone to the corrupt members

02:32:22.646 --> 02:32:27.006
of law enforcement who want to abuse people. Yes.

02:32:27.286 --> 02:32:32.966
Also in their whole craziness around immigration and doing all these sweeps.

02:32:33.126 --> 02:32:36.766
And, oh, my gosh, I stopped someone. Oh, well, it turned out to be a U.S. citizen.

02:32:37.006 --> 02:32:40.106
Yeah, they didn't tell me that. And next thing you know, they're sitting there

02:32:40.106 --> 02:32:42.546
in custody, in ICE custody for a week.

02:32:42.706 --> 02:32:44.986
And mom and everybody's here like, here's a birth certificate.

02:32:45.006 --> 02:32:47.146
Here's a Social Security card. What do you mean?

02:32:47.286 --> 02:32:50.186
Which already has happened in the state of Florida. I mean, it's happened in

02:32:50.186 --> 02:32:51.266
a few different places already.

02:32:51.686 --> 02:32:56.986
Arizona. So basically, when those people finally turn around and sue and be

02:32:56.986 --> 02:33:00.586
like, OK, this was a wrongful detention, I was racially profiled,

02:33:00.766 --> 02:33:07.146
he will now trot out these big firms to defend the racist policies that he's

02:33:07.146 --> 02:33:09.046
setting forth. Yeah, exactly.

02:33:09.186 --> 02:33:13.026
Because that executive order, there's a word that's used in there and it jumped

02:33:13.026 --> 02:33:18.366
right off the page at me and it said the Department of Justice will indemnify law enforcement.

02:33:18.766 --> 02:33:24.566
And I sat there and I thought about that word for like hours and unconsciously

02:33:24.566 --> 02:33:26.226
for hours, indemnified.

02:33:26.226 --> 02:33:29.006
Like you're going to be indemnified are you going

02:33:29.006 --> 02:33:32.566
to be what we're going to be paying the damages that

02:33:32.566 --> 02:33:35.486
that juries award you know because that's what that sounds

02:33:35.486 --> 02:33:38.986
like but indemnified can also mean that that

02:33:38.986 --> 02:33:46.126
you'll you may get counsel from from these firms and i mean i a lot of these

02:33:46.126 --> 02:33:52.686
cases are brought in state court first and again i these firms are big they

02:33:52.686 --> 02:33:57.746
have the capacity and the resources to dump 17,000 documents on you in a click.

02:33:58.046 --> 02:34:03.306
But, you know, there are ways around this. There are ways small firms do an excellent job.

02:34:03.626 --> 02:34:07.606
You know, all you need is a little bit of passion and you can take these firms

02:34:07.606 --> 02:34:10.906
on. You also have document reviewing attorneys.

02:34:11.526 --> 02:34:13.666
I've noticed on LinkedIn, I don't know if you've noticed this,

02:34:13.806 --> 02:34:19.226
Melba, but there are lots of companies that are sort of jumping up for document

02:34:19.226 --> 02:34:21.306
review that I haven't seen before.

02:34:21.306 --> 02:34:25.826
And you can contract as an attorney to be a document-reviewing attorney where

02:34:25.826 --> 02:34:29.086
you get this online link and you just start, like,

02:34:29.246 --> 02:34:34.386
tagging documents that may have something to do and is relevant for the thing

02:34:34.386 --> 02:34:37.906
that they're at issue in the case.

02:34:38.526 --> 02:34:42.626
So I don't think it's hopeless. I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that,

02:34:42.706 --> 02:34:46.126
but I don't think it's hopeless. But I also think that...

02:34:47.804 --> 02:34:51.264
You know, his power is waning, even though he's using it.

02:34:53.524 --> 02:35:01.184
And people who supported him are turning, slowly turning, and he's calling them stupid.

02:35:01.524 --> 02:35:05.964
The other day we heard that, you know, he was questioned about people,

02:35:06.284 --> 02:35:08.764
you know, your supporters are saying that they didn't vote for this.

02:35:08.884 --> 02:35:11.924
And he said, oh, yes, they did. I campaigned on it.

02:35:12.224 --> 02:35:15.204
So what he said in that sentence was, you're stupid.

02:35:16.124 --> 02:35:20.304
And people don't take kindly to that. I mean, and we're going to be in a situation

02:35:20.304 --> 02:35:22.944
here where the economy is crashing.

02:35:23.684 --> 02:35:27.744
And once that happens, you can have all the law enforcement you want.

02:35:28.084 --> 02:35:35.944
Frankly, there's more of us than there is of them. So I am hopeful that the

02:35:35.944 --> 02:35:44.524
parade of horribles that I see in the very accurate description given by Melba will not pay out.

02:35:44.524 --> 02:35:47.024
It won't happen, but I am prepared for it.

02:35:47.324 --> 02:35:57.004
And that's, I'm almost speechless because it's like, as diabolical as that sounds,

02:35:57.824 --> 02:36:01.044
excuse me, that's a reality that we're going to have to deal with.

02:36:01.044 --> 02:36:06.784
So I don't want to I don't want to end the conversation on such a dire note.

02:36:07.884 --> 02:36:13.884
What what can people do within the law to kind of protect themselves?

02:36:14.584 --> 02:36:18.124
Are you are y'all involved with discussions with people?

02:36:18.764 --> 02:36:24.384
You know, you said it kind of jokingly, but, you know, those of us who do this

02:36:24.384 --> 02:36:31.024
little podcast and my little podcast, I'll probably be like 20,700 before on the warrant list.

02:36:31.044 --> 02:36:35.804
But, you know, I mean, what can people do to kind of protect themselves at this

02:36:35.804 --> 02:36:41.124
particular point as far as protecting their right to speak and,

02:36:41.624 --> 02:36:45.924
you know, just, you know, making sure that they have due process?

02:36:45.924 --> 02:36:50.444
Because one of the things, the examples I liked was the fact that that young

02:36:50.444 --> 02:36:56.704
man that was in Vermont who was going to take a citizenship test and he gets

02:36:56.704 --> 02:36:59.844
detained, you know, at the courthouse.

02:37:00.004 --> 02:37:03.024
And he's like literally just that one step away.

02:37:03.184 --> 02:37:08.304
Once he passes that test, he gets to take the oath and they detained him.

02:37:08.304 --> 02:37:13.904
And if it wasn't for the people in the community, you know, being aware of that

02:37:13.904 --> 02:37:19.424
situation and doing all those steps that they needed, he would have been in

02:37:19.424 --> 02:37:21.344
general Louisiana like everybody else.

02:37:21.684 --> 02:37:28.864
And so or somewhere else. And so, you know, I take that as one of the positive things we can do.

02:37:28.984 --> 02:37:33.504
But real quick, anything that y'all can think of that that people should be

02:37:33.504 --> 02:37:34.784
doing to kind of protect themselves?

02:37:35.967 --> 02:37:40.887
Super quick, number one, know your rights. That starts with know your constitutional rights.

02:37:41.767 --> 02:37:45.247
Download the Constitution app, read it, okay?

02:37:45.507 --> 02:37:48.747
Pays very special attention to the amendments, okay?

02:37:48.827 --> 02:37:52.927
Because those are the things that will, you know, that you can use to argue

02:37:52.927 --> 02:37:54.547
for, you know, even in the moment.

02:37:54.727 --> 02:37:58.027
Because sometimes cops will back down if you're like, you know,

02:37:58.207 --> 02:37:59.367
this is unconstitutional.

02:37:59.667 --> 02:38:02.547
No, I don't have to give you my ID. Am I free to go?

02:38:02.887 --> 02:38:07.247
Am I in custody? I'm not, goodbye. And you can turn around and walk away.

02:38:07.427 --> 02:38:11.567
People don't know that. In terms of ICE shows up at the house with a warrant,

02:38:12.047 --> 02:38:13.607
is it an administrative warrant?

02:38:13.787 --> 02:38:17.167
Or is it a judicial warrant? Because a judicial warrant, yeah,

02:38:17.267 --> 02:38:18.287
they can kick down your door.

02:38:18.687 --> 02:38:20.867
An administrative warrant, they sure can.

02:38:21.327 --> 02:38:26.207
So if you don't let them, you have the right to not let them into your home

02:38:26.207 --> 02:38:27.927
if it's an administrative warrant.

02:38:28.087 --> 02:38:32.347
So those are the nuances that people have to be aware of. Because,

02:38:32.527 --> 02:38:35.767
again, you may be giving them latitude when they don't have the power,

02:38:35.767 --> 02:38:38.047
and now you've put yourself in a situation.

02:38:38.607 --> 02:38:42.387
Lastly, I would say that I've seen this. I've read about this either in San

02:38:42.387 --> 02:38:46.767
Diego, I believe, where they're now starting to do community patrols.

02:38:46.887 --> 02:38:49.867
And they're looking to see, okay, is there ICE activity?

02:38:50.147 --> 02:38:55.287
And they would turn around and report that to the undocumented members of their community.

02:38:55.547 --> 02:39:00.007
And, like, you know, basically it's almost like underground railroad type stuff, right?

02:39:00.007 --> 02:39:05.427
And we've got to take those lessons from Reconstruction, from enslavement,

02:39:05.547 --> 02:39:10.767
from the first civil rights movement and dust them off and tweak them for today.

02:39:10.967 --> 02:39:14.007
We've got, you know, we've got Internet. We've got Signal.

02:39:14.827 --> 02:39:18.827
We've got all of these different ways that we can communicate effectively that

02:39:18.827 --> 02:39:22.367
they didn't have back in the day when they were like sending out a passenger

02:39:22.367 --> 02:39:25.087
pigeon to let people know like, hey, we ride at dawn, right?

02:39:25.087 --> 02:39:28.667
So, you know, it's about coming together in community,

02:39:29.107 --> 02:39:33.007
knowing your rights and defending each other, because this is not the time for

02:39:33.007 --> 02:39:39.107
us to be in silos talking about, well, because, listen, if it's the Latin community

02:39:39.107 --> 02:39:42.867
that's going now, trust and believe the Black community is right behind, right?

02:39:42.867 --> 02:39:48.247
And then after that, they're going to come find, you know, poor white people.

02:39:48.427 --> 02:39:53.367
But yeah, so, you know, we all have to realize that our fortunes and our futures

02:39:53.367 --> 02:39:56.767
are intertwined. And if we don't know that, we're done.

02:39:57.707 --> 02:40:03.287
I 100% agree. I'm going to add to that. Know the difference between a politician and an activist.

02:40:04.087 --> 02:40:07.327
Politicians are reformists. They work in a system. They're subject to rules

02:40:07.327 --> 02:40:09.787
and procedures and the norms of their system.

02:40:10.327 --> 02:40:15.727
And we can't have them arrested and not able to vote because some of these votes

02:40:15.727 --> 02:40:17.847
will come down to one or two votes.

02:40:18.287 --> 02:40:20.527
They're doing their job that you sent them there to do.

02:40:21.572 --> 02:40:25.012
Job is to be the activist, and activists work outside the system.

02:40:25.272 --> 02:40:31.752
And so it's on the people. No revolution, if you will, has ever been started by a politician.

02:40:31.872 --> 02:40:36.272
It's always been started by the people, and politicians then get on board.

02:40:36.732 --> 02:40:41.032
So I urge people to understand the difference and stop attacking the people

02:40:41.032 --> 02:40:47.232
that you need to help in the system that exists. You can work outside the system.

02:40:47.752 --> 02:40:50.772
Second, I'm talking specifically to the legal community.

02:40:50.992 --> 02:40:55.352
One of the things that has frustrated me is that we have been in a situation

02:40:55.352 --> 02:41:01.232
where people are waiting until the bad thing happens, and then they pursue litigation.

02:41:01.632 --> 02:41:05.372
I love a declaratory judgment. I love a declaratory judgment.

02:41:05.572 --> 02:41:09.352
And I think attorneys need to actively step up, engage in pro bono work,

02:41:09.472 --> 02:41:14.352
and start helping these communities seek declaratory judgment so that we can

02:41:14.352 --> 02:41:18.472
protect these communities. because we know what he's going to do and we know what he's done.

02:41:19.372 --> 02:41:25.552
I think that during the pandemic, we formed these little pods of people.

02:41:25.932 --> 02:41:30.692
And I think it's time that we need to establish democracy pods.

02:41:31.232 --> 02:41:35.932
Know your neighbors. Know who they are. Protect them.

02:41:37.129 --> 02:41:41.909
Them, they will protect you. And what I mean by that is, I'll give you a good

02:41:41.909 --> 02:41:43.029
example. I live in Los Angeles.

02:41:43.289 --> 02:41:45.489
We go through fire season like

02:41:45.489 --> 02:41:49.489
24-7 now, but we had some really bad fires in the city of Los Angeles.

02:41:49.749 --> 02:41:54.429
And there was a fire about, I don't know how far away, it was probably less

02:41:54.429 --> 02:41:57.269
than a mile away from me, up at Runyon Canyon.

02:41:57.869 --> 02:42:01.109
And immediately we all gathered outside trying to figure out,

02:42:01.189 --> 02:42:03.949
is this going to be, is this coming at us? And it was coming at us.

02:42:04.029 --> 02:42:05.709
Is this something that we need to bug out for.

02:42:06.149 --> 02:42:08.389
And we all had a plan of how we

02:42:08.389 --> 02:42:11.309
were going to help each other and who was going to take who and what car.

02:42:11.489 --> 02:42:15.929
And I think that's really important that you be thinking about looking out for

02:42:15.929 --> 02:42:18.109
the person in your community.

02:42:19.089 --> 02:42:22.689
And when I say community, I mean, know your neighbor. Know the name.

02:42:22.789 --> 02:42:24.529
Some of us don't know the names of our neighbors.

02:42:24.849 --> 02:42:28.149
Know who they are. Check in on them. Make sure they're okay.

02:42:29.109 --> 02:42:33.849
Because we're going to have to stand up for other people. And if you have power

02:42:33.849 --> 02:42:37.909
and agency, I have power and agency, it's all relative, but I have power and

02:42:37.909 --> 02:42:39.849
agency, I'm going to stand up for you.

02:42:40.209 --> 02:42:44.529
And I hope that you'll stand up for me. And if we all sort of link arms that

02:42:44.529 --> 02:42:47.749
way, it's going to make a difference moving forward.

02:42:48.369 --> 02:42:53.089
The other thing is, I just want to point out, is that law school applications are on the rise.

02:42:53.269 --> 02:42:56.269
And I read this dumb article. I don't know which publication it was in.

02:42:56.409 --> 02:42:58.789
And they were talking about it. And they said it was because of the economy.

02:42:58.989 --> 02:43:01.989
Now, historically, yes, when the economy goes crappy, people go to school.

02:43:02.229 --> 02:43:05.149
No, people want to be lawyers because they want to help.

02:43:05.669 --> 02:43:09.409
That's what's happening, is that people are angry and they want to help.

02:43:09.549 --> 02:43:10.449
They want to make a difference.

02:43:10.809 --> 02:43:16.309
And so if you are interested in making a difference, go find a nonprofit. They need your help.

02:43:16.489 --> 02:43:22.629
Go help. Go help the ACLU. Go help the various nonprofits that exist in your

02:43:22.629 --> 02:43:24.529
community that you're interested in.

02:43:24.669 --> 02:43:29.589
And volunteer, because there is so much work that needs to be done,

02:43:29.649 --> 02:43:32.289
and they don't have enough people to do it.

02:43:32.829 --> 02:43:36.229
All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, ladies, for that.

02:43:36.409 --> 02:43:42.049
Melba and Dr. Tracy, the podcast law firm are Pearson and Pearson.

02:43:42.229 --> 02:43:49.109
I thank y'all for coming on and not only enlightening me, but enlightening the

02:43:49.109 --> 02:43:54.569
audience as far as where we are and what we can do, because I think that's the most important thing.

02:43:54.569 --> 02:43:57.629
So I thank y'all for coming on and doing that.

02:43:57.689 --> 02:44:00.949
And we'll, it looks like we're going to have to get together soon,

02:44:00.949 --> 02:44:06.209
but you know, I'll reach out and we'll figure it out. Always a pleasure, Erik.

02:44:07.209 --> 02:44:12.589
Thank you, Erik. We love your audience and we're glad that you give us this platform.

02:44:12.889 --> 02:44:15.549
So absolutely, I'm happy to come back. Anytime.

02:44:16.309 --> 02:44:18.289
All right, guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

02:44:20.080 --> 02:44:30.480
Music.

02:44:30.502 --> 02:44:34.902
All right. And we are back. So real quick, I want to thank Julia Ismael,

02:44:36.262 --> 02:44:38.802
Sean Miller, and my good friends, Dr.

02:44:38.882 --> 02:44:44.382
Tracy and Melba, the podcast law firm of Pearson and Pearson for coming on.

02:44:44.582 --> 02:44:46.982
I hope that y'all got something out of that.

02:44:47.882 --> 02:44:53.702
I know I did. And I greatly appreciate y'all listening.

02:44:54.402 --> 02:44:59.882
Again, it was a long show, but I hope that you agree that it was well worth it.

02:45:00.822 --> 02:45:07.142
So thank you for indulging on that. I won't get into any real commentary in

02:45:07.142 --> 02:45:12.562
closing out, but I just want to remind y'all, we're still trying to get 20,000

02:45:12.562 --> 02:45:13.722
subscribers on Patreon.

02:45:13.722 --> 02:45:19.742
And maybe when we have long episodes like this, what I had been doing was going

02:45:19.742 --> 02:45:23.642
on Patreon and offering a commentary so people that subscribe can listen.

02:45:24.962 --> 02:45:28.122
So definitely gonna have to get back to doing that.

02:45:28.122 --> 02:45:32.362
But please, please, please, the sooner we can get to 20,000,

02:45:32.582 --> 02:45:34.902
the sooner that you will be guaranteed

02:45:34.902 --> 02:45:40.042
that this podcast will be on for as ever long as it needs to be.

02:45:40.462 --> 02:45:44.262
All right. So, again, thank you all for listening. Until next time.

02:45:46.160 --> 02:46:32.402
Music.