This Point in Time Featuring Will Cooper

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Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host,

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Eric Fleming. And today.

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Excuse me, today is the first episode after the election.

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And I want to publicly apologize to all my previous guests that in our off conversations

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asked me how I thought this election was going to go.

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And I assured them and Vice President Harris was going to win.

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I was comforting people. I was, you know, giving positive reasons and just from

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my experience in politics why I thought it was going to be a different outcome.

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And then just like in 2016, those numbers started coming in and I was like, not again.

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So all my guests that, you know who you are, who had these off-air conversations

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with me about this, I am sorry. I got it wrong.

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I just knew that the American people were going to give the vice president a

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chance to leave. And they did not.

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Now, later on, I'll get into some reasons why I think that was.

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One of the things I wanted to do was to get somebody else on to kind of give their assessment.

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Somebody that I've through my podcasting journey has have trusted for like objective

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commentary. So my good friend, Will Cooper, is going to be on the first segment

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to kind of give his thoughts and all that.

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And then the last half of the show would be strictly me.

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But I just want to say to well, I'll save that. I'll save that for later.

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Just I want y'all to listen to to Will's commentary about it and then listen to what I have to say.

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Although you have a right to question my political judgment Because I thought

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Vice President Harris was going to win But yeah, let's do that Let's go ahead

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and kick this off And as always, we're going to kick it off with a moment of news For Grace G.

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Music.

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Thanks, Eric. Former President Donald Trump will become the 47th President of

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the United States after defeating Vice President Kamala Harris in the 2024 presidential election.

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Republicans gained control of the U.S. Senate while the final composition of

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the House remained uncertain due to many uncalled races.

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Voters largely supported abortion rights referendums across the United States,

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but notable defeats in Florida, Nebraska, and South Dakota mark the first wins

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for anti-abortion advocates since the Supreme Court's 2022 decision.

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Two black women will serve simultaneously for the first time in the U.S.

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Senate, as Democrat Lisa Blunt Rochester, one in Delaware, and Democrat Angela

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Alsobrooks, one in Maryland.

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Voters in Delaware made history by electing Democrat Sarah McBride,

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who will become the first openly transgender member of Congress.

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A former Kentucky police officer is potentially facing Lycan prison after he

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was convicted of violating Breonna Taylor's civil rights.

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Two Ohio police officers were indicted for reckless homicide in the death of

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Frank Tyson, a black man who died after being restrained.

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A former Ohio police officer was found guilty of murder for the shooting of Andre Hill.

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An unarmed black man during a response to a non-emergency call in December 2020.

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And Quincy Jones, a legendary figure in American music, passed away at the age of 91.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

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Music.

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All right, Grace, thank you for that moment of news.

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Of course, one of the headlines was the fact that the 45th president of the

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United States, Donald J.

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Trump, is now going to be the 47th president of the United States.

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It's the first time this has happened in 132 years that a president will serve

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non-consecutive terms.

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And again, I'll get into a little more of that. But right now,

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I want you to listen to my friend, Will Cooper.

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Will has written a book, How America Works and Why It Doesn't.

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And a lot of that was dealing with Donald Trump and the way that he campaigned

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and all that. And Will has been an astute observer of American politics for years.

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He has written in several publications and he's written a few books.

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And so and he's been a guest on this podcast a lot. So this is not the typical

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introduction, you know, but it's always good to have friends of the program.

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Right. And he is a big friend and supporter of the program.

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And of all the people, and there's a lot of good people I could have had,

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but I knew that Will has always responded to me at the drop of a hat,

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and this was one of those drop in the hat moments.

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So ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

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guest on this podcast, Will Cooper.

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We'll see you next time.

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Music.

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All right. Will Cooper, my friend. How you doing, man? You doing good?

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Well, I'm doing okay. It's been quite a week.

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All in all, I'm doing well, but as we'll get into on the political front, been better.

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Yeah. Yeah. I kind of, kind of the same way.

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So let me, let me do what I traditionally do, but I'm going to put a little twist to it.

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So the quote is, God spared my life for a reason, to save America at that point in time.

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And that was a quote from President-elect Trump during his victory speech.

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So if you want to react to the quote in itself, that's fine.

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But what point in time are we in, in America?

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Well, it's a great question as always. And Thank you for having me, Eric.

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I love coming on here. I mean, this, I think, like many people,

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I'm still in processing mode.

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I'm still making sense of this and look forward to getting your help with that

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because there's a lot to make sense of.

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I think as far as that quote goes,

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it shows how the religious elements of our politics, which are very significant,

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many millions of people,

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how closely aligned they are with Trump.

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And that's quite a complicated area.

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I mean, on the one hand, Trump's behavior and personality in his own life and

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while he was president was antithetical to a lot of the ideals of religion.

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And at the same time, he was able to get three Supreme Court justices on the

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court and overturn Roe versus Wade,

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which to many folks in that space was an enormous accomplishment.

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So it's a it's a complicated one.

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But I think that quote really does show just what a powerful connection Trump

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has with that community.

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Yeah. And, you know, I don't really give him a lot of benefit of the doubt.

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And I don't know if there's a lot of people that do.

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You know, but, you know, on my side of the aisle.

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But I do think that's a sincere moment for him.

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I think he really believes that he's been called to do this.

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I don't, you know, there's a point where I always use this movie to distinguish

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gentlemen as a reference point.

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Because Eddie Murphy played this con man who ran for Congress thinking he was

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going to get a big score out of it.

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And then when he got in the position, he realized how important it was.

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Now, in Donald Trump's case, I don't think he still understands the importance

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of the position, but I think he understands that he has a mission to fulfill. Right.

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And in that he feels that he's been ordained.

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To carry out that mission, whether it's at the behest of billionaires like Elon

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Musk or the evangelical Christian nationalist or whatever.

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He feels he's been charged at this time to do that.

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You know, you've written books about him. You've kind of studied him a little

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bit. Is that too much of a reach?

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I think Trump will say

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anything in any context to

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get help politically number one

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and he's not the only politician i would i would say that about he does it any

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more open shameless way than most politicians but i don't think there's anything

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any line he would draw or anything he wouldn't say if he felt like it was helpful politically.

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That's point one. Point two, I don't think he's a big thinker.

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I don't think he thinks in broad strokes about having a mission to accomplish

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long, coherent, big initiatives.

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I think he thinks in short term, transactional sense, I want to win this election.

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I want to increase this poll.

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I want to advance this political interest. That doesn't mean he's void of policy ideas and preferences.

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I just think the combination of shameless politician and short-term thinking

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really predominates within Trump.

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And my best guess is that's what was predominating behind that statement and

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his general approach to the election and governing.

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All right, so let's get into the election. What do you think Harris did wrong to come up short?

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Because not only did she not win the Electoral College, she's the first Democrat

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nominee not to win the popular vote since 2004. So it's been 20 years.

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What would you assess that she did wrong if you think she did anything wrong?

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And I've been thinking a lot about that because it's so easy to try to,

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you know, to have these lists of things that the loser did wrong and the winner did right.

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It's just hard to know how much weight to put into it. My best sense is I actually

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think Joe Biden was a bigger problem than Kamala Harris.

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I think staying in the race as long as he did had significant consequences.

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Number one, I think it really soured a lot of the American public on the Democratic

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Party because it was so obvious he should have been there and yet he was there anyway.

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And that's an extremely damaging thing to do to people who are not just loyalists for the party.

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Number two, there was no primary. And I don't think that was necessarily illegitimate

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the way Republicans say.

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I mean, you're allowed to change candidates later if there's a reason.

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I don't think it was some coup or anything like that. I thought that criticism was ridiculous.

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But what it robbed the party of was an opportunity to put forward different

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people to the electric and see which one the people liked the most.

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And if there was a full primary, we might have had a different candidate.

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Also, what we would have had if Kamala won, which she easily could have through

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a primary, is a much longer runway.

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For people who are very into politics, she was the candidate for long enough for us to know about her.

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But a lot of the electorate, a lot of the people that go to the polls don't

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follow politics very closely.

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And people, if she had had a longer runway and if she had had an opportunity

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for, you know, Trump was campaigning for basically four years.

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Kamala got three months.

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So I actually, as much as I respect a lot of what Biden did throughout his career,

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I think his last chapter was very damaging to the party, to the country,

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and to Kamala's candidacy.

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I don't think Kamala actually did a poor job.

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I think she played the hand she was given quite well. The last thing I'll say

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on this is the Democratic Party has to get on a different side of the immigration debate.

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I am a very inclusive person in my life and in my politics.

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That's reflected in my ideals about immigration.

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But the American public, the voting public, is not okay with the way the border

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is being handled, the way it's been handled, and the way Democrats talk about it.

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And if the art of politics is to win elections so you get more done than if

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you lose elections, the Democrats have to change their perspective on immigration.

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And that may have, the immigration topic may have negated everything else I just said.

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It might have just come down to that, in my view. So those are my thoughts.

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Well, see, I don't think she did anything wrong. I think, like you said,

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she played the hand she was dealt.

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I think for a campaign that was 107 days, she did more than a lot of candidates

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would have been able to do all the way through.

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As a matter of fact, she did more in those 107 days than she did when she ran

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in 2019 to get on the ballot in 2020.

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And she had been out there for a minute.

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I think that, you know,

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I don't I would not as somebody that has been out there and run and,

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you know, and had to navigate different feuding factions and all this kind of stuff.

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I think her and her campaign team did a tremendous job.

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What disturbs me is that.

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She got, as of right now, she got 69 million votes. That's more than what Hillary Clinton got in 2016.

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Donald Trump basically got the same amount of people that he got four years ago.

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So his number didn't really change. Matter of fact, he actually dropped.

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He lost about a million some folks.

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So the question becomes, what was it about turnout to me? Why?

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Why wasn't a mechanism in place or what was it that made people say,

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I'm not going to vote at all? Right.

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Because you had one media sphere saying the borders being overrun.

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We're paying too much for gas. We're paying too much for food.

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And then you had another media sphere saying democracy is about to end. Right.

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Other people that showed up to vote, they voted either based on saving the democracy

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or reducing prices or, as you said, dealt with immigration.

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I'm trying to figure out with all that sorrow around, what would get people

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not to even participate?

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81 million people voted for Joe Biden, 81 million, more than any other human

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being in the history of the United States.

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And just if everything played equal, you would figure the person who was the

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vice president on his ticket would get those voters.

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So why do you think that there was a significant drop off like that?

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Well, I think that, and I'll do a shameless plug for my book because I'm working

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on an updated edition of how America works and why it doesn't.

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And I'm talking about this exact thing.

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I think it goes back to, I think it's a variety of things, but I think the single

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biggest one, if you remember, it's hard to remember this, but three and a half

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months ago, Joe Biden was a candidate.

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I agree with everything you said about Kamala.

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I actually gained respect for her over this election.

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I thought she and her team did a really, really good job.

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But four months ago, the Democratic Party and the candidate was somebody who

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displayed repeatedly and then especially in that debate.

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A lack of coherence and competence that I think really upset a lot of people.

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I think it deeply offended. I mean, Kamala, to her testament to what she did,

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a lot of people forgot about that because she did run such a good campaign and

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she was such a legitimate, good candidate.

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But I think when four months ago you had millions of Americans throw up their

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hands and say, you're telling me Donald Trump is going to destroy our democracy,

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and yet this is your leader, no way.

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I am not buying into that.

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And I don't think, I think you can repair trust with some people,

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but I think a lot of people just said, I'm out.

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I'm not going to get on this bandwagon. I'm sorry. You cannot tell me our democracy

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is about to end and this be the candidate who, again, I respect Biden's career.

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He had 50 years of adding value and some big mistakes for a number of months.

00:20:59.234 --> 00:21:05.574
But if I had to point my finger at it, I think just recovering from that was too tall of a burden.

00:21:05.794 --> 00:21:10.134
And it just, what you weren't going to get those people to come out.

00:21:10.974 --> 00:21:16.434
What does this say about Americans who, I want to read this. This is from...

00:21:18.208 --> 00:21:24.208
The Wikipedia article that has been written. This is how they describe the Trump campaign.

00:21:24.448 --> 00:21:26.388
Says the Trump campaign was noted

00:21:26.388 --> 00:21:30.168
for making many false and misleading statements, including the big lie.

00:21:30.368 --> 00:21:35.068
The 2020 election was stolen from Trump, engaging in anti-immigrant,

00:21:35.128 --> 00:21:38.708
immigrant fear mongering and promoting conspiracy theories.

00:21:38.708 --> 00:21:43.248
Trump's style and behavior, including his embrace of far right extremism,

00:21:43.448 --> 00:21:48.108
was characterized by a variety of scholars as breaking with longstanding U.S.

00:21:48.248 --> 00:21:50.988
Political norms in an unprecedented way.

00:21:51.208 --> 00:21:57.768
His speeches were marked by authoritarian and dehumanizing rhetoric toward his political opponents.

00:21:57.768 --> 00:22:02.568
His campaign and populist political movement were characterized by several historians

00:22:02.568 --> 00:22:08.528
and former Trump administration officials as featuring parallels to fascism.

00:22:08.708 --> 00:22:13.368
And then it goes on to say in May 2024, Trump became the first U.S.

00:22:13.448 --> 00:22:18.228
President to be convicted of a crime after he's found guilty on multiple counts,

00:22:18.548 --> 00:22:22.268
felony counts for falsifying business records related to hush money payments

00:22:22.268 --> 00:22:25.428
to adult film actress Stormy Daniels.

00:22:25.528 --> 00:22:27.488
He was previously found liable for sexual abuse.

00:22:27.708 --> 00:22:35.748
He was twice. It goes on and on. Right. So if you're a human being reading this

00:22:35.748 --> 00:22:40.888
Wikipedia article 40 years from now, and you read that,

00:22:41.208 --> 00:22:45.448
and then you see that this guy won the election.

00:22:45.888 --> 00:22:48.568
What does that say about us?

00:22:49.188 --> 00:22:53.068
You've touched on the biggest part of the whole equation for me,

00:22:53.108 --> 00:23:00.148
and that's that this election was more about the American people than it was about Donald Trump.

00:23:00.348 --> 00:23:06.968
I think Trump will come and go, but there's something going on in our country,

00:23:06.968 --> 00:23:12.048
in our polity, that's going to outlast him that's very serious.

00:23:13.788 --> 00:23:24.868
We, as a nation, don't respect our constitutional principles and design the way I thought we did.

00:23:25.188 --> 00:23:32.588
We don't have an aversion or a revulsion to the structures of government and

00:23:32.588 --> 00:23:34.368
the types of leaders that the country

00:23:34.368 --> 00:23:39.388
was basically founded to oppose and reject the way I thought we did.

00:23:40.068 --> 00:23:43.808
You know, Trump called millions of human beings vermin.

00:23:44.468 --> 00:23:50.408
He tried to overturn the last election openly in plain sight to such an extent

00:23:50.408 --> 00:23:52.748
that he was prosecuted for that.

00:23:53.168 --> 00:23:57.028
And yet he swept the tables and won a decisive victory.

00:23:57.488 --> 00:24:02.048
And so it says more about the country, I think, than it says about anything else.

00:24:02.228 --> 00:24:06.708
Does that mean we're forever condemned to be a country that rejects our own principles?

00:24:06.888 --> 00:24:11.068
No. I think we can revert to the mean. And I think when Trump's off the scene,

00:24:11.148 --> 00:24:15.908
the likelihood of a reversion away from those things is actually quite high.

00:24:16.408 --> 00:24:22.808
But it says something very important and concerning about the American people.

00:24:23.788 --> 00:24:28.808
So last question, because I know you got to go and I and I got you at the last minute to do this.

00:24:28.908 --> 00:24:32.148
And I greatly appreciate you coming on.

00:24:32.608 --> 00:24:35.408
I couldn't think of anybody else that I've interviewed.

00:24:36.568 --> 00:24:43.408
And I've talked to about politics and stuff that would would respond with clarity

00:24:43.408 --> 00:24:44.768
and not too much emotion.

00:24:44.888 --> 00:24:49.068
Both of us kind of feel some kind of way about it. But, you know,

00:24:49.148 --> 00:24:52.008
we have to look at these things as analytical as possible.

00:24:52.808 --> 00:25:01.808
My last question is, women's rights were on the line in this election, even more so than 2016.

00:25:02.028 --> 00:25:03.668
2016, it was a theory.

00:25:05.968 --> 00:25:11.108
2024, the wheels are moving. In states where,

00:25:11.348 --> 00:25:17.548
in seven of the 10 states where abortion rights were on the ballot,

00:25:17.788 --> 00:25:21.368
those measures passed, including states like Montana,

00:25:21.848 --> 00:25:23.828
where Harris had no chance of winning.

00:25:23.928 --> 00:25:26.948
I mean, John Tester even lost his Senate seat.

00:25:27.848 --> 00:25:31.708
But, you know, the right to have an abortion won.

00:25:32.568 --> 00:25:39.628
And yet 53%, the same number that voted against a white woman running for president

00:25:39.628 --> 00:25:45.248
of the United States, Hillary Clinton, voted against a black Asian woman.

00:25:46.646 --> 00:25:51.086
The sitting vice president of the United States, the most powerful woman in

00:25:51.086 --> 00:25:55.686
American political history, they voted against her, too.

00:25:57.066 --> 00:26:01.966
So we're men. And, you know, you're white. I'm black.

00:26:01.986 --> 00:26:05.486
So you might have some insight into white women. I don't know.

00:26:06.446 --> 00:26:09.826
No, no, no. I don't. I don't. Not at all.

00:26:10.706 --> 00:26:19.246
But I but the key thing to me is everybody that voted most of the time votes

00:26:19.246 --> 00:26:22.766
when you look at whether it's the black vote, Latina vote, Asian vote,

00:26:22.886 --> 00:26:25.106
whatever people vote for their self-interest.

00:26:25.726 --> 00:26:29.926
Right. And and debates happen in the communities about their best interests.

00:26:29.926 --> 00:26:40.086
What is it about women's rights or a woman in charge that would be a turnoff to 53% of white women?

00:26:40.266 --> 00:26:46.366
Just an educated guess. Or maybe if you've done some research, I'm kind of confused.

00:26:46.746 --> 00:26:52.286
Yeah, it is confusing. I have not researched it in any sort of systematic way.

00:26:53.066 --> 00:27:00.846
I think a few things, my sense. I do think abortion is an extremely important issue.

00:27:01.866 --> 00:27:07.386
I think it will continue to be. And I think the number of passionate voters

00:27:07.386 --> 00:27:10.506
were that central to their vote is enormous.

00:27:11.526 --> 00:27:16.826
The problem is they were just outnumbered. They were outnumbered by,

00:27:17.046 --> 00:27:22.046
I think the two biggest factors are, again, I think immigration is.

00:27:23.492 --> 00:27:27.452
I think there are just enormous number of people who are very concerned about

00:27:27.452 --> 00:27:30.032
immigration in sort of a visceral way.

00:27:30.712 --> 00:27:34.572
And whether they're right or wrong, and they're often very wrong,

00:27:34.792 --> 00:27:38.812
in my opinion, empirically, their vote counts just as much as everybody else's.

00:27:38.852 --> 00:27:42.052
And I think the abortion vote was just outnumbered.

00:27:43.052 --> 00:27:46.492
It's still huge. It's still powerful. It's still important.

00:27:46.712 --> 00:27:52.432
It's still going to resonate into the future. They just got outnumbered, number one.

00:27:53.492 --> 00:28:01.032
And I think, number two, the other major, major factor that we haven't talked

00:28:01.032 --> 00:28:03.592
about today, Eric, is the economy.

00:28:04.272 --> 00:28:10.572
Everybody knows the economy is what it's all about with elections. It just is.

00:28:11.112 --> 00:28:17.132
And it's not really the economy as much, in a traditional sense,

00:28:17.232 --> 00:28:22.252
as much as just people's pocketbooks, right? You know, a growth in the economy

00:28:22.252 --> 00:28:24.872
has been better than every other country in the world.

00:28:25.152 --> 00:28:27.592
Our resilience has been incredible.

00:28:27.932 --> 00:28:32.532
We avoided some of the sustained inflation that people were concerned about.

00:28:32.992 --> 00:28:38.052
But for reasons that I think are a mix of external and internal to the Biden

00:28:38.052 --> 00:28:41.032
administration, there was really bad inflation.

00:28:41.212 --> 00:28:45.252
People would go to the grocery store and pay a lot more, go to the gas station,

00:28:45.332 --> 00:28:49.132
pay a lot more. And they'd think about Biden. And then when it came time to

00:28:49.132 --> 00:28:51.012
the election, they would think about Paris.

00:28:51.532 --> 00:28:55.812
So that was a unfortunate for the Democrats.

00:28:56.032 --> 00:29:01.172
It was really unfortunate that there was this constant feeling of the incumbent

00:29:01.172 --> 00:29:03.252
cause these higher prices.

00:29:03.692 --> 00:29:08.532
So I think those factors make of the abortion change.

00:29:09.260 --> 00:29:14.500
Topic seem less important than it really is. I think it's still a huge deal.

00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:15.980
I think it will continue to be

00:29:15.980 --> 00:29:21.960
a huge deal. I love seeing the states make moves in the right direction.

00:29:22.580 --> 00:29:26.700
Very happy about that. One of the silver linings of this election.

00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:32.600
So I wouldn't count that out. If the economy had been an even playing, let me put it this way.

00:29:32.860 --> 00:29:39.140
The economy is an even playing field and the Democrats are able to get in a

00:29:39.140 --> 00:29:42.820
better place with immigration in terms of how perceptions operate,

00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:46.760
I think abortion could be the decisive factor and the champ, you know,

00:29:47.420 --> 00:29:51.000
whoever's the champion on that can, can win in the next election.

00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:54.500
So I, I won't throw that. I don't think we should throw the towel in.

00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.760
Not that you were suggesting that, but that's my, that's my,

00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:02.040
yeah. Oh no. By any means, we, we, we don't have the luxury of throwing the towel in now.

00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:07.160
Well, look, Will, I know you've got to go, but I greatly appreciate you taking the time out.

00:30:07.760 --> 00:30:13.280
You say you're updating your book. Tell people about the book again and where they can get it.

00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:17.940
Thanks, Eric. And thank you for having me. I love talking about these things.

00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:22.120
We've had a nice time talking about lots of different things.

00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.700
Our first episode some years ago now was so different than what we're talking about now.

00:30:26.820 --> 00:30:29.540
And I look forward to continuing that as

00:30:29.540 --> 00:30:33.560
the country experiences all these huge changes and that's

00:30:33.560 --> 00:30:36.740
going to continue hopefully for the better as far

00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:39.560
as the book goes it's how america works and

00:30:39.560 --> 00:30:46.040
why it doesn't we're updating it just to have chapter on the 2024 election my

00:30:46.040 --> 00:30:51.760
thesis about why the american people you know why polarization is so high i'm

00:30:51.760 --> 00:30:55.980
basically just taking that and applying it to the election and that new edition

00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:57.780
will be out, you know, in a few months.

00:30:58.180 --> 00:31:01.280
You can find it anywhere you buy your books, whether it's online,

00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:06.780
Amazon, local bookstores, and there's a nice tribute to you and your show and the acknowledgments.

00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:12.260
All right, Will. Well, thanks again, man. I appreciate you. And all right,

00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:13.880
guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:32.880
Music.

00:31:34.429 --> 00:31:41.369
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Will for coming on on short notice

00:31:41.369 --> 00:31:50.209
to give his assessment about what happened on November the 5th, 2024.

00:31:51.449 --> 00:31:57.689
And before I go on. What I didn't do in the opening was acknowledge the fact

00:31:57.689 --> 00:32:00.609
that as this episode drops, it'll be Veterans Day.

00:32:01.729 --> 00:32:11.429
So I want to offer my thank yous to those who have fought and died for this country.

00:32:11.589 --> 00:32:16.689
Memorial Day is primarily a day reserved for those who made the ultimate sacrifice,

00:32:16.689 --> 00:32:22.989
but Veterans Day can incorporate everybody that have served in armed forces.

00:32:24.569 --> 00:32:30.689
And, you know, always the day before is the anniversary of the United States

00:32:30.689 --> 00:32:34.749
Marine Corps, which I had a privilege of serving for six months.

00:32:36.569 --> 00:32:39.629
If I haven't told the story, I'll tell it another time.

00:32:41.249 --> 00:32:45.689
So, you know, this is a special day for me.

00:32:47.049 --> 00:32:52.849
You know, I lost an uncle I never got to meet in one of the early battles of the Vietnam War.

00:32:54.329 --> 00:33:00.969
You know, it's just, you know, I have co-workers who are veterans and,

00:33:00.969 --> 00:33:05.089
you know, in most of the work that I've done,

00:33:05.229 --> 00:33:12.529
whether it's been an elected official or in my work in the private sector,

00:33:12.549 --> 00:33:15.309
I've worked with a lot of veterans.

00:33:15.309 --> 00:33:23.029
And so I can attest to folks who have given their service to the country and

00:33:23.029 --> 00:33:24.429
are continuing to serve.

00:33:25.825 --> 00:33:29.265
And in the roles that they're playing.

00:33:29.645 --> 00:33:32.985
So I just want to acknowledge that since this is Veterans Day.

00:33:33.245 --> 00:33:39.885
And it ties into what we're talking about, because when you take the oath to

00:33:39.885 --> 00:33:43.605
go into the military, you take an oath to defend the Constitution.

00:33:45.285 --> 00:33:49.765
And one of the provisions of the Constitution is that we elect a president.

00:33:49.765 --> 00:33:53.445
And on November 5th, 2024,

00:33:54.145 --> 00:33:59.825
the American people elected the 45th president to serve another term as the

00:33:59.825 --> 00:34:04.885
47th president of the United States, Donald J. Trump.

00:34:05.885 --> 00:34:08.465
It was something that I was not anticipating.

00:34:09.525 --> 00:34:14.705
And that's the main reason why I want this, the title of this podcast.

00:34:14.985 --> 00:34:19.825
I kept wondering, should it be what happened or WTF or whatever?

00:34:19.965 --> 00:34:25.365
But it's like it was based off a quote that Donald Trump said in his victory speech.

00:34:25.825 --> 00:34:30.325
So I want to the title of this episode is going to be this point in time.

00:34:31.225 --> 00:34:34.545
And there's a lot of things to unpack on that.

00:34:35.625 --> 00:34:40.085
Because, you know, when you follow social media, the only reason why I'm on

00:34:40.085 --> 00:34:45.825
social media really is Facebook to keep up with my high school and college classmates,

00:34:47.305 --> 00:34:50.585
LinkedIn to connect with people to get on this podcast.

00:34:52.385 --> 00:34:59.865
And really that's it. It's like, you know, the other reason is just to highlight,

00:34:59.865 --> 00:35:04.805
you know, pub up the show and get people to listen to the podcast and all that

00:35:04.805 --> 00:35:06.265
and just have a presence out there.

00:35:07.065 --> 00:35:10.865
But, you know, just like you're on a highway and there's a car wreck,

00:35:11.045 --> 00:35:14.905
you kind of turn your head around to see what the car wreck looks like.

00:35:15.985 --> 00:35:19.845
And so I read a lot of the stuff that's on social media.

00:35:20.585 --> 00:35:24.205
Sometimes I respond to it. It just all depends.

00:35:25.365 --> 00:35:31.885
But I usually just read it. So naturally, of course, after what happened,

00:35:32.125 --> 00:35:39.305
I started listening to people venting because my algorithm is not giving me Trump supporters.

00:35:39.545 --> 00:35:49.805
It's giving me Harris supporters primarily and the anger and the disappointment and the bitterness.

00:35:50.785 --> 00:35:57.305
Now, one thing about X is that I do get Trump supporters in my feed on X because

00:35:57.305 --> 00:36:02.325
I think the way it's set up is just politics in general and you get all sides. Right.

00:36:04.425 --> 00:36:09.225
But, you know, listening to people on TikTok, I'm listening to.

00:36:10.185 --> 00:36:17.745
Black women and in some cases, black men saying. Don't call me a person of color anymore.

00:36:19.725 --> 00:36:22.085
Don't ask us for our help anymore.

00:36:24.205 --> 00:36:28.565
White women can never be trusted anymore. You know, I'm hearing all that.

00:36:29.225 --> 00:36:32.425
The few Trump supporters I'm hearing is, you know,

00:36:33.485 --> 00:36:37.565
there's some arrogance, but they were the ones who were coy about their Trump

00:36:37.565 --> 00:36:43.225
support, but they were very much not against, not for Vice President Harris,

00:36:43.485 --> 00:36:49.385
you know, saying, well, y'all, you know, trying to make this woman black and she wasn't black.

00:36:49.385 --> 00:36:55.085
And, you know, what y'all going to do? And, you know, and all that stuff,

00:36:55.325 --> 00:37:01.365
not anything sounding like they're going to hold, especially those folks that

00:37:01.365 --> 00:37:02.425
are pushing reparations.

00:37:03.185 --> 00:37:05.945
I think they already know they're not going to get anywhere with Trump,

00:37:06.105 --> 00:37:09.425
but they weren't feeling Harris. Right.

00:37:10.345 --> 00:37:13.685
So, you know, some of them voted for Green Party candidates.

00:37:13.685 --> 00:37:16.685
And then I've heard some folks being upset about that and saying,

00:37:16.825 --> 00:37:22.465
oh, well, you know, you voted for Jill Stein. that cost us the election and all this stuff.

00:37:23.525 --> 00:37:27.345
So this is what I want to say to people. You do you.

00:37:28.205 --> 00:37:35.665
You do what you feel is best for you to carry forth and make this country better.

00:37:35.865 --> 00:37:42.845
If you think that isolating yourself from other causes that might be worthy

00:37:42.845 --> 00:37:48.085
based on this vote, I'm not here to tell you not to do it.

00:37:49.145 --> 00:37:50.945
You do what you want to do.

00:37:52.805 --> 00:37:58.485
I don't know if that's going to be productive, but I'm not going to admonish you for that.

00:37:58.925 --> 00:38:03.145
If you're a black woman and you feel in some kind of way, I get it.

00:38:03.745 --> 00:38:11.405
You know, all of us in the black community came from a black woman. All of us.

00:38:12.945 --> 00:38:22.745
So my mom was an AK. So to see the nation reject somebody that was a sorer of my mother hurts.

00:38:24.367 --> 00:38:29.067
Somebody that went to an HBCU like my mother and I did hurts.

00:38:29.907 --> 00:38:39.067
And it, whether it was intentional or not, it sends a message about what you think our value is.

00:38:39.807 --> 00:38:45.287
And if you think that's unwarranted to feel that way, then it's apparent that

00:38:45.287 --> 00:38:50.327
you've never walked in our shoes, that you've never lived our experience.

00:38:51.407 --> 00:38:57.547
So, you know, if you're out of touch with that, I can't help you.

00:38:58.447 --> 00:39:05.287
But I do want you to understand that our feelings are valid and they should be respected.

00:39:06.387 --> 00:39:13.287
And if you don't respect them, then be ready for the response. Right.

00:39:14.067 --> 00:39:17.847
But let's get let's get into it a little more.

00:39:17.847 --> 00:39:25.487
So when you look at numbers, overall, the vice president got 53% of the female

00:39:25.487 --> 00:39:30.687
vote overall, and Donald Trump got 45%.

00:39:32.067 --> 00:39:39.947
That is an incredible number considering two things that Donald Trump did,

00:39:40.147 --> 00:39:42.627
one when he was president and one when he wasn't.

00:39:44.541 --> 00:39:49.681
Anybody that's been accused of a sexual assault would probably not even get

00:39:49.681 --> 00:39:53.961
the time of day to get a job, let alone to be president of the United States. But here we are.

00:39:54.881 --> 00:40:03.921
Somebody who took away the rights of a group would probably not get negative,

00:40:04.121 --> 00:40:06.141
would get negligible support.

00:40:06.621 --> 00:40:09.201
Right. Anywhere from 20 percent on down.

00:40:09.841 --> 00:40:15.041
But not in the case of Donald Trump. And I find it interesting that in states

00:40:15.041 --> 00:40:20.981
where Donald Trump won big and the Republican nominee won big,

00:40:21.441 --> 00:40:26.081
that when it came to abortion rights, that won big, too.

00:40:27.501 --> 00:40:32.061
Montana is the classic example. John Tester, who grew up in Montana,

00:40:32.281 --> 00:40:37.601
who basically lost three fingers on his hand farming in Montana.

00:40:39.721 --> 00:40:42.921
Had served to stay where it was the last Democrat standing in Montana.

00:40:43.281 --> 00:40:47.861
He didn't do like Manchin and not run. He put himself out there one more game.

00:40:48.421 --> 00:40:53.281
And he got beat by a guy who bought a ranch because he had that kind of money,

00:40:54.721 --> 00:40:58.621
and registered to vote in Montana. He beat him to serve in the U.S. Senate.

00:40:59.421 --> 00:41:04.441
And then Donald Trump won huge. But when you ask those women,

00:41:04.441 --> 00:41:13.821
Do you want to have the right to an abortion embedded in the Constitution in the state of Montana?

00:41:14.301 --> 00:41:16.801
The majority of the people said yes.

00:41:17.841 --> 00:41:23.381
And I'm not looking at any numbers. I'm sure it was an incredible amount of

00:41:23.381 --> 00:41:29.361
women that voted for that in Montana because Montana is primarily white.

00:41:30.281 --> 00:41:34.801
Very negligible black population compared to any other states in the union.

00:41:35.941 --> 00:41:37.661
So what was it about,

00:41:39.365 --> 00:41:45.785
Harris, that you didn't want a woman who championed that cause,

00:41:45.785 --> 00:41:47.745
who basically ran on that issue.

00:41:48.625 --> 00:41:52.445
Why would you not give her the opportunity to be the president to make sure

00:41:52.445 --> 00:41:56.085
that your state and other states had those rights protected?

00:41:57.345 --> 00:41:59.205
I'll put a pin in that and come back.

00:42:01.585 --> 00:42:05.485
So there was this thing about black men.

00:42:06.465 --> 00:42:11.825
There was this big concern that, oh, black men are not going to vote for Kamala Harris.

00:42:12.025 --> 00:42:15.845
There were people on social media like saying, yeah, that's over with.

00:42:15.945 --> 00:42:17.405
We're not doing that no more.

00:42:18.045 --> 00:42:19.625
Yada, yada, this, that, and the other.

00:42:20.765 --> 00:42:23.305
78% of black men voted for Kamala Harris.

00:42:24.585 --> 00:42:32.945
Now, I kind of knew because I've had great Republican guests on like Coach Killings

00:42:32.945 --> 00:42:38.065
and others who have been working to get black men to start thinking about the

00:42:38.065 --> 00:42:39.205
Republican Party, right?

00:42:39.965 --> 00:42:44.525
And, you know, I've had black friends who are Republicans.

00:42:45.725 --> 00:42:50.165
So there's always going to be, now they're a little different breed than the

00:42:50.165 --> 00:42:54.585
current group, but I know there's one guy, he's been, I mean,

00:42:54.665 --> 00:42:59.545
he voted for Edward Brooke in Massachusetts. So he was, he'd been a Republican all his life, right?

00:43:00.145 --> 00:43:05.605
But it was a different vibe kind of Republican and more in a black and tan tradition and all that.

00:43:05.725 --> 00:43:10.785
And I'm not going to get into all the history, but there's there's always going to be a pocket.

00:43:11.185 --> 00:43:15.205
But the way Donald Trump was talking and the way that his campaign staff was

00:43:15.205 --> 00:43:19.825
talking, the way that these folks on social media like Candace Owens and Charlie

00:43:19.825 --> 00:43:23.365
Kirk and all these other people was like, it's just going to be this wave of black men.

00:43:23.525 --> 00:43:27.305
It's just going to say no to the Democratic Party. It's a wrap.

00:43:28.165 --> 00:43:34.545
78% of the black men Voted for Kamala Harris Sounds about right,

00:43:35.585 --> 00:43:39.465
92% Of black women Voted for Kamala Harris,

00:43:40.305 --> 00:43:47.825
Not surprising at all Right So when you look at the overall numbers Right That

00:43:47.825 --> 00:43:53.605
means that Kamala Harris got 85% of the black vote That showed up 85,

00:43:54.745 --> 00:43:56.625
Donald Trump only got 13 you.

00:43:58.198 --> 00:44:01.238
So. Black vote was not the problem.

00:44:02.198 --> 00:44:06.438
So whatever myth you want to put out there and say, oh, well,

00:44:06.638 --> 00:44:09.318
black men abandoned her and blah, blah, and this, that and all.

00:44:09.838 --> 00:44:14.138
But, you know, outside of the people that are on social media and outside of

00:44:14.138 --> 00:44:18.698
those people like Byron Donalds and all those who are Republicans and elected

00:44:18.698 --> 00:44:21.458
officials, yeah, it wasn't much changed. there.

00:44:21.778 --> 00:44:24.358
It was the same role.

00:44:25.178 --> 00:44:27.078
85%, that's normal.

00:44:27.918 --> 00:44:35.398
Anywhere from 80% to 95% nationwide is normal, or even in states.

00:44:36.098 --> 00:44:40.618
That's kind of an understood figure. When you run for a statewide office or

00:44:40.618 --> 00:44:45.338
a national office, that's what you factor in, that you got to get at least eight

00:44:45.338 --> 00:44:48.338
out of 10 black voters to support you.

00:44:48.958 --> 00:44:54.018
That's just math. That's just how we do things in politics because it's all about numbers.

00:44:55.018 --> 00:45:00.238
So there was no disappointment there. There was no surprise.

00:45:01.138 --> 00:45:07.338
Well, there was one slight surprise. In white male votes, Donald Trump actually lost some.

00:45:08.078 --> 00:45:10.858
It was only 1%, but he lost some white men.

00:45:12.218 --> 00:45:19.038
He got 60%. So it was a slight drop off, right?

00:45:20.218 --> 00:45:29.458
Harris got 37. So we don't know if she picked up that 1% or that 1% didn't show up.

00:45:30.598 --> 00:45:34.598
But he had a slight drop. White women.

00:45:35.378 --> 00:45:44.258
As in 2020, as in 2016, the majority of white women voted for Donald Trump.

00:45:45.618 --> 00:45:48.778
2016 you can understand 2020

00:45:48.778 --> 00:45:55.858
there were some questions they actually got a little more white women vote but

00:45:55.858 --> 00:46:02.398
this election should have been very very clear right you were seeing the effects

00:46:02.398 --> 00:46:07.478
of the Dobbs decision you had a female the highest,

00:46:08.278 --> 00:46:13.078
elected female in the history of the United States the vice president of the

00:46:13.078 --> 00:46:15.418
United States was running for president.

00:46:15.998 --> 00:46:19.078
He was the Secretary of State, not a U.S.

00:46:19.398 --> 00:46:23.898
Senator, not a former governor, the Vice President of the United States who

00:46:23.898 --> 00:46:28.058
made history at one point because in the line of succession,

00:46:28.358 --> 00:46:32.618
you had Joe Biden, then you had Kamala Harris, and then you had Nancy Pelosi.

00:46:33.618 --> 00:46:39.458
So in that era, we saw that. And the majority of white women still voted.

00:46:41.688 --> 00:46:44.228
Donald Trump. Now, I said I was

00:46:44.228 --> 00:46:47.908
going to put a pin on it. Let me come back to it. Let me get into this.

00:46:48.808 --> 00:46:54.868
For those of y'all who don't think that, and I respect Will's opinion about

00:46:54.868 --> 00:47:01.568
immigration, and that probably played a part in it, and the economy played a part in it, but.

00:47:02.908 --> 00:47:05.488
Don't think that women can't be sexist.

00:47:06.808 --> 00:47:11.808
I remember, I've watched, I've watched a lot of documentaries. I watch a lot of shows.

00:47:12.368 --> 00:47:17.428
And I've seen women say, regardless of what ethnicity they are,

00:47:17.548 --> 00:47:20.928
it's like women's place is not in these leadership positions.

00:47:21.768 --> 00:47:26.148
They don't want women being the manager of a store.

00:47:26.468 --> 00:47:32.268
They don't want women being the CEO of a corporation, even though we got all

00:47:32.268 --> 00:47:34.308
these white women that have businesses.

00:47:35.448 --> 00:47:40.388
So when it comes to being the leader of the nation, there are some women that

00:47:40.388 --> 00:47:41.888
just don't buy into that.

00:47:42.688 --> 00:47:46.828
Doesn't matter about race because they rejected Hillary Clinton.

00:47:47.268 --> 00:47:49.788
They don't want to see a woman in that position.

00:47:50.508 --> 00:47:52.728
I don't know if it's a socialization.

00:47:53.868 --> 00:47:59.248
What the deal is, but it's totally illogical to me, especially at this particular

00:47:59.248 --> 00:48:01.668
point in time in history. Right.

00:48:02.388 --> 00:48:08.708
Because we literally are seeing women dying. We saw women die during covid.

00:48:09.488 --> 00:48:15.708
Now we're seeing women die because of abortion bans. But that wasn't enough.

00:48:16.528 --> 00:48:22.248
So outside of, you know, it's very easy to say, well, it's racist,

00:48:22.388 --> 00:48:23.768
but they rejected Hillary Clinton.

00:48:25.468 --> 00:48:29.348
So misogyny obviously is gender neutral.

00:48:31.246 --> 00:48:38.026
And I don't know if we're ever going to be at a point in this country because

00:48:38.026 --> 00:48:41.066
these women have children, right?

00:48:41.666 --> 00:48:45.206
And these women, especially the ones that homeschool their children,

00:48:45.306 --> 00:48:49.506
are the ones that, you know, have a major influence in their child's life.

00:48:50.386 --> 00:48:54.866
So if this is the mindset they have, they're going to pass that down.

00:48:55.246 --> 00:49:00.506
See, the biggest educator, the most basic unit in a society is the family, right?

00:49:01.246 --> 00:49:05.266
Where you get most of your education from, that's where you learn your language that you speak.

00:49:05.426 --> 00:49:11.086
That's where you learn behavior. That's where you learn custom, culture.

00:49:11.466 --> 00:49:12.986
It's in that family unit.

00:49:14.806 --> 00:49:20.866
So if you're raised in a culture where women are not considered leaders,

00:49:20.866 --> 00:49:23.226
that's the way you're going to think.

00:49:23.226 --> 00:49:29.206
Unless you've been otherwise exposed or you yourself have been given opportunity

00:49:29.206 --> 00:49:35.366
to either lead if you're a woman or if you are a man and have women lead you,

00:49:35.686 --> 00:49:37.846
like if you serve in the military, for example,

00:49:38.986 --> 00:49:41.226
right? Or in law enforcement.

00:49:42.286 --> 00:49:47.366
But, you know, it's hard for a woman to get elected sheriff in this country.

00:49:47.886 --> 00:49:52.626
So it's not surprising, even though we've had women chief of police appointed,

00:49:53.566 --> 00:49:58.406
If you run for sheriff, it's very, very rare you can get a female sheriff elected.

00:49:59.106 --> 00:50:05.026
So maybe it was asking a bit much. But then we look at the country to ourself.

00:50:05.706 --> 00:50:10.826
And while Kamala Harris was being defeated, the president of Mexico,

00:50:11.446 --> 00:50:13.866
female, was getting sworn in.

00:50:14.606 --> 00:50:20.366
She was even looking forward to having a meeting, the new president,

00:50:20.746 --> 00:50:23.586
Kamala Harris. I'm very excited about the probability.

00:50:25.322 --> 00:50:30.022
Now she has to focus in on Donald Trump, which she already kind of had a dossier

00:50:30.022 --> 00:50:32.382
on, but that's a whole other conversation for another day.

00:50:32.562 --> 00:50:37.862
So I don't know what it will take. I don't know if there's anything that will happen.

00:50:38.362 --> 00:50:40.242
I don't know if it will be in my lifetime.

00:50:41.162 --> 00:50:46.422
But I cannot conceive a group of people. I don't understand a group of people

00:50:46.422 --> 00:50:48.682
that vote against their self-interest.

00:50:49.522 --> 00:50:56.662
And you can say, well, my self-interest is the groceries or my self-interest is the border.

00:50:57.162 --> 00:51:00.842
If you are dead, your interests do not matter.

00:51:01.582 --> 00:51:06.802
Let me say that again. If you are dead, your interest does not matter.

00:51:07.102 --> 00:51:11.962
Those nine months that you are bringing another life into the world is your

00:51:11.962 --> 00:51:13.682
most vulnerable moment.

00:51:15.502 --> 00:51:20.682
Millions of things. And maybe I'm exaggerating, but millions of things could go wrong.

00:51:21.382 --> 00:51:24.262
That's why it's called the miracle of life.

00:51:25.082 --> 00:51:31.062
Even though there are 8 billion people on this planet, those are 8 billion miracles.

00:51:31.882 --> 00:51:36.702
In the United States, what, 20, 30, 40,000 miracles happen today?

00:51:37.502 --> 00:51:41.442
I will never understand how people vote against their self-interest.

00:51:42.462 --> 00:51:47.122
There's not much political analysis I can give to. I just don't understand how

00:51:47.122 --> 00:51:48.502
people vote against their self-interest.

00:51:49.682 --> 00:51:52.422
In the Latino community, you make that same argument.

00:51:53.762 --> 00:51:59.122
Latino women voted for Vice President Harris, but not Latino men.

00:51:59.802 --> 00:52:06.582
Vice President Harris got 60% of Latino women and only 43% of Latino men.

00:52:07.042 --> 00:52:12.422
And there are some folks that are coming on the talk shows that are saying that

00:52:12.422 --> 00:52:14.362
it's a misogynistic culture.

00:52:16.082 --> 00:52:19.282
And people are stuck in their ways and all that stuff.

00:52:20.042 --> 00:52:24.222
Again, I don't understand how you vote against your self-interest.

00:52:25.402 --> 00:52:30.902
People in a Latin American country have voted for a woman to be president.

00:52:32.862 --> 00:52:40.582
So I think people in Mexico are more cultural because they're still living in

00:52:40.582 --> 00:52:45.782
their country as opposed to those who are trying to deal with an American culture

00:52:45.782 --> 00:52:48.002
and maintain their heritage,

00:52:48.422 --> 00:52:51.102
regardless of what Latin American country they come from.

00:52:51.602 --> 00:52:57.402
There are representatives of different Latin American groups in elected positions

00:52:57.402 --> 00:53:04.862
throughout the nation, whether it's local government or state government or in Congress.

00:53:06.142 --> 00:53:07.302
I mean, a Republican woman.

00:53:09.922 --> 00:53:16.922
Got elected, reelected to Congress in the same state that didn't want a woman to be president.

00:53:18.102 --> 00:53:22.102
Now, there was a woman running for U.S. Senate in Florida, and she didn't win.

00:53:22.242 --> 00:53:28.442
But I'm just saying, you know, party lines more so than misogyny.

00:53:29.202 --> 00:53:32.022
And there's a history behind that.

00:53:32.182 --> 00:53:37.142
And there's been a concerted effort more so than what the Democrats have done.

00:53:37.142 --> 00:53:41.842
The GOP has had a concerted effort ever since George, Jeb Bush's son,

00:53:42.082 --> 00:53:48.402
got involved in forcing the Republican Party to emphasize on the Latino vote.

00:53:48.622 --> 00:53:53.222
Anna Navarro, who was a big supporter of Harris, she was one of those people

00:53:53.222 --> 00:53:56.862
convincing Latinos to vote Republican at one point in her life, right?

00:53:57.682 --> 00:54:03.882
So that stuck. And so a lot of those Latino men have been voting Republican for a long time.

00:54:04.462 --> 00:54:11.542
It's very easy to say they're misogynistic, but the reality is there's a history behind that.

00:54:11.942 --> 00:54:18.682
And when you look at the overall numbers, Vice President Harris got 52% of Latino vote.

00:54:19.742 --> 00:54:24.502
Now, again, that was buoyed by women, but she got the majority up.

00:54:26.602 --> 00:54:31.902
So I'm sitting up here trying to break down stuff because I want to get to this conclusion.

00:54:32.822 --> 00:54:37.202
Oh, the one thing I do want to say, because I try to keep it in 30 minutes,

00:54:37.262 --> 00:54:37.982
but it's not going to happen.

00:54:38.162 --> 00:54:45.342
So let me break this down to all those folks who are mad because of Jill Stein voters.

00:54:45.762 --> 00:54:48.102
Right. It was one, I think, Dearborn.

00:54:49.402 --> 00:54:53.522
Where Jill Stein got more votes than Kamala Harris and all that.

00:54:54.362 --> 00:54:57.742
That was a very committed outlier.

00:54:58.542 --> 00:55:04.402
Right Because they were trying to say Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar In Minnesota

00:55:04.402 --> 00:55:12.122
outperformed Harris as far as Democratic votes And all that or Tim Walz even In Minnesota and Yeah,

00:55:13.062 --> 00:55:17.022
But Jill Stein Didn't even get a million votes,

00:55:18.182 --> 00:55:21.802
Nationwide You know you put her and Dr.

00:55:21.922 --> 00:55:26.962
West numbers together And then throwing Chase Oliver The Libertarian candidate

00:55:26.962 --> 00:55:34.262
We got about 1.8 million, but that wasn't the number. And I'll get to the number in a minute.

00:55:34.682 --> 00:55:39.642
That wasn't the number that concerned me. So that was a typical response,

00:55:40.002 --> 00:55:46.142
a typical election where the candidates that are not Democrat or Republican,

00:55:46.382 --> 00:55:48.082
it's the independent vote.

00:55:49.882 --> 00:55:57.302
So regardless of how you feel and all that kind of stuff, I really want the

00:55:57.302 --> 00:56:03.062
people who, on either side of the Palestinian-Israeli issue,

00:56:03.702 --> 00:56:07.322
the war on Gaza and all that.

00:56:09.218 --> 00:56:14.598
Which I want to do, but I'm just going to tell you as having had the privilege

00:56:14.598 --> 00:56:20.238
of having a platform and maybe nobody else will come on. But I must say this.

00:56:20.738 --> 00:56:26.258
I know that the Palestinian supporters I've had on and the Israeli supporters

00:56:26.258 --> 00:56:30.178
I had on, there's no compromising with either one of them.

00:56:30.998 --> 00:56:33.938
These are people who are passionate about what they believe.

00:56:36.458 --> 00:56:44.098
And when you interject that in American politics, there's a no-win solution for that.

00:56:44.618 --> 00:56:50.738
There's no way you're going to tell me that Vice President Harris is more genocidal than Donald Trump.

00:56:51.438 --> 00:56:54.578
Can't make that argument. You can't make that argument that Donald Trump is

00:56:54.578 --> 00:56:59.218
more genocidal than Vice President Harris. You can't make that argument because the U.S.

00:56:59.278 --> 00:57:01.438
Position has always been to support Israel.

00:57:01.598 --> 00:57:05.938
Whether you agree with that or not, that's the public policy position that the

00:57:05.938 --> 00:57:08.058
United States has taken ever since 1948.

00:57:08.938 --> 00:57:15.018
The only thing we can do as a country is to encourage Israelis or encourage

00:57:15.018 --> 00:57:18.078
the Palestinians even to tone it down.

00:57:18.598 --> 00:57:22.818
And we'll sit there at the negotiating table and help you negotiate whatever

00:57:22.818 --> 00:57:24.278
conflict you got going on.

00:57:24.278 --> 00:57:29.938
But if you don't agree to sit on the table, then we can do your best interest

00:57:29.938 --> 00:57:35.058
would be to vote for the person that you think can achieve a piece.

00:57:35.658 --> 00:57:40.438
If you vote against that or you vote, you don't vote at all.

00:57:40.978 --> 00:57:42.538
That doesn't help your argument.

00:57:43.558 --> 00:57:48.558
And for those folks who didn't vote for Harris because they didn't like how

00:57:48.558 --> 00:57:50.018
Joe Biden handled the situation.

00:57:50.798 --> 00:57:54.838
OK, but just understand that didn't help.

00:57:55.558 --> 00:58:00.238
But the other choice that was available to you is not going to help,

00:58:00.338 --> 00:58:04.938
because even if you voted for a Jill Stein or a Cornel West or somebody else.

00:58:06.298 --> 00:58:12.798
See, the key in that strategy is this, and I hope that they will take it to heed.

00:58:13.718 --> 00:58:19.018
If you are going to mount a presidential campaign of significance,

00:58:19.018 --> 00:58:27.798
if you are serious about a third alternative, then I need you to run people outside of president.

00:58:28.238 --> 00:58:32.718
I need you to run somebody for governor. I need you to run somebody for secretary of state.

00:58:32.958 --> 00:58:37.058
I need you to run for somebody, lieutenant governor. I need you to run for the state houses.

00:58:37.358 --> 00:58:41.518
I need you to run for the state senates. I need you to run for county commissioner.

00:58:41.518 --> 00:58:44.918
I need you to run for the city council and mayor of these cities.

00:58:46.794 --> 00:58:52.714
The only way you're going to build up a consensus to alter a third alternative

00:58:52.714 --> 00:58:55.554
in this nation is that you've got to compete at every level.

00:58:55.714 --> 00:59:02.154
It's always been an argument of mine that the Democratic Party should compete in all 50 states. Right.

00:59:02.914 --> 00:59:08.114
That's always been the internal argument with me. But with the Green Party or

00:59:08.114 --> 00:59:11.854
with Cornel West Party or whoever else,

00:59:12.094 --> 00:59:17.174
you got to run a campaign, not only in every 50 state, but every village,

00:59:17.374 --> 00:59:20.834
every hamlet, every city, every county.

00:59:21.314 --> 00:59:26.154
You got to run somebody because you've got to build up a pool of people.

00:59:26.814 --> 00:59:32.654
So when you actually have a convention or you actually have a primary and then

00:59:32.654 --> 00:59:36.954
you can choose a candidate that can get enough support to get up on the stage

00:59:36.954 --> 00:59:38.254
and offer an alternative.

00:59:38.934 --> 00:59:42.434
If you choose not to do that, I don't care if your issue is about black folks.

00:59:42.574 --> 00:59:45.934
I don't care if your issue is about Palestine. I don't care if your issue is

00:59:45.934 --> 00:59:48.314
about clean air and climate change.

00:59:48.314 --> 00:59:53.854
If you want to have a viable third option, one where people can say,

00:59:54.174 --> 00:59:58.754
oh, OK, we don't have to choose between the elephant or the donkey.

00:59:59.514 --> 01:00:02.754
Then you got to do the work. You can't just show up every four years.

01:00:03.634 --> 01:00:07.114
You can't offer yourself as a protest vote. Right.

01:00:08.014 --> 01:00:13.234
Because I don't want to be scapegoated as one candidate loses because I showed up.

01:00:14.414 --> 01:00:19.194
I want to be the candidate that beats both of them and gets to serve in the position.

01:00:19.414 --> 01:00:22.874
And I have some people in Congress with me to get some stuff done.

01:00:23.074 --> 01:00:26.954
That's what serious people should do.

01:00:28.394 --> 01:00:34.674
So for those of y'all who are getting on black spaces on social media and trying

01:00:34.674 --> 01:00:37.574
to blame Vice President Harris.

01:00:39.714 --> 01:00:44.494
For her own demise by not supporting your cause. And you've been warned.

01:00:44.694 --> 01:00:47.294
People are just going to tell you where you can go and how to get there.

01:00:48.214 --> 01:00:51.214
I think if you've accomplished your goal,

01:00:51.574 --> 01:00:58.814
which it seems like you did, then now I need you to have rallies and have protests

01:00:58.814 --> 01:01:02.454
and have meetings to figure out how you're going to get the Trump administration

01:01:02.454 --> 01:01:06.214
to do what you want them to do, because they're in. Right?

01:01:07.374 --> 01:01:10.894
So the other number I want to talk about real quick, and I don't know if I can

01:01:10.894 --> 01:01:14.294
do it real quick, but the most important number.

01:01:16.115 --> 01:01:20.475
Sixty nine million. That's the most important.

01:01:20.775 --> 01:01:24.675
Sixty nine million. That's how many people voted for Vice President Harris to

01:01:24.675 --> 01:01:27.515
be president of the United States. Sixty nine million.

01:01:28.595 --> 01:01:34.815
Donald Trump, as of this recording, has basically seventy three and a half.

01:01:35.775 --> 01:01:40.615
Which is less than what he had four years ago. In a losing effort.

01:01:41.395 --> 01:01:44.995
He had 70. He actually had seventy four million people.

01:01:45.675 --> 01:01:49.795
So basically, what it looks like is that all his folks came back.

01:01:50.795 --> 01:01:55.715
All his folks showed up. Which if you listen to experts and all that stuff,

01:01:55.955 --> 01:02:01.335
when people say it's a tight election, turnout is the key. All his folks show back up.

01:02:02.135 --> 01:02:05.935
We're looking at a drop off of only a half million people. All his folks showed

01:02:05.935 --> 01:02:08.975
up from four years ago. All of them.

01:02:09.715 --> 01:02:12.535
He didn't really get anything new. He didn't get really anything.

01:02:13.555 --> 01:02:16.355
I mean, you can say, well, he grew here and he grew there, blah,

01:02:16.415 --> 01:02:20.095
blah. Basically, the same people that voted for him last time voted for him again.

01:02:20.735 --> 01:02:25.275
The difference was Vice President Harris got 69 million.

01:02:25.515 --> 01:02:32.435
The guy who picked her to be vice president when he ran four years ago, he got 81.

01:02:33.515 --> 01:02:42.455
He got 81. won. So that means that 12 million people who voted for Joe Biden

01:02:42.455 --> 01:02:46.415
didn't come back and vote for Vice President Harris.

01:02:47.075 --> 01:02:49.275
12 million.

01:02:50.095 --> 01:02:53.395
12 million people tuned out.

01:02:54.075 --> 01:02:58.855
Now, whatever your reason was, it was not a good one.

01:02:59.395 --> 01:03:05.595
Not just because the candidate I supported lost. is because you've been exposed.

01:03:06.435 --> 01:03:08.495
12 million people.

01:03:10.371 --> 01:03:16.271
Any sense. This election was projected to be the biggest election of all time

01:03:16.271 --> 01:03:22.671
because they figured if 150 million people voted four years ago,

01:03:23.131 --> 01:03:26.131
that more people would be engaged this go-around.

01:03:26.331 --> 01:03:28.491
It actually was less.

01:03:29.591 --> 01:03:32.071
We didn't lose 12 million people to COVID.

01:03:33.411 --> 01:03:39.531
Jill Stein, Chase Oliver, Cornel West did not generate 12 million votes.

01:03:40.531 --> 01:03:45.251
Y'all didn't show up. And I don't care if you don't agree with it.

01:03:45.451 --> 01:03:49.531
I don't care if you don't feel what I'm saying. That's some bullshit.

01:03:50.551 --> 01:03:57.091
This is Veterans Day we're talking about. These people fought in wars to make

01:03:57.091 --> 01:04:01.831
sure not only our country had the right, but other nations around the world

01:04:01.831 --> 01:04:04.231
had the right to choose their leaders.

01:04:05.291 --> 01:04:10.011
You'll get up here and take the day off for Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday,

01:04:10.771 --> 01:04:15.151
which now, ironically, Donald Trump is going to be sworn in on holiday.

01:04:16.871 --> 01:04:23.871
And you didn't show up to vote. People literally died, whether it was overseas

01:04:23.871 --> 01:04:25.831
or in Birmingham, Alabama.

01:04:26.611 --> 01:04:30.091
People literally died for you to vote.

01:04:31.491 --> 01:04:36.551
And if 12 million people don't vote for president, then y'all aren't going to show up for the mayor.

01:04:37.031 --> 01:04:39.691
Y'all aren't going to show up for the city council. Y'all aren't going to show

01:04:39.691 --> 01:04:44.811
up for governor in your respective states. Y'all aren't going to do that. And that's terrible.

01:04:45.991 --> 01:04:51.151
Derek's no excuse for that. It's my right to not exercise my right to vote.

01:04:51.571 --> 01:04:52.491
Yeah, but it's still stupid.

01:04:54.231 --> 01:04:59.111
Because everything that happens in your life is connected to politics.

01:04:59.751 --> 01:05:02.451
The city of Jackson is about to be in another crisis.

01:05:03.191 --> 01:05:07.011
They're going to have to sit there and figure out if they're going to have special elections or not.

01:05:07.611 --> 01:05:11.691
They've already just had one special election for a council person going to jail.

01:05:12.071 --> 01:05:15.411
Now there's a mayor involved. There's a DA involved. There's another council

01:05:15.411 --> 01:05:17.351
person involved. That's a real talk.

01:05:19.347 --> 01:05:22.627
And Jackson are like, well, I ain't going to vote, see what they do, blah, blah. No.

01:05:22.867 --> 01:05:29.267
If you vote, maybe people that will not get in trouble with the law,

01:05:29.367 --> 01:05:32.567
and I'm not saying any of these people did because I know a lot of these people.

01:05:32.687 --> 01:05:33.747
I know all of them actually.

01:05:34.507 --> 01:05:37.387
They're innocent until proven guilty. I got it.

01:05:38.147 --> 01:05:44.027
I'm not trying to condemn anybody, but I am saying that if you participate in the process.

01:05:45.087 --> 01:05:47.807
I'm a classic example. Let me break it down to you.

01:05:48.247 --> 01:05:52.587
More people voted for me in the

01:05:52.587 --> 01:05:58.267
election I lost for a state representative than voted for me to get in.

01:05:59.007 --> 01:06:05.567
Let me say that again. More people voted for me in the election I lost after

01:06:05.567 --> 01:06:12.567
serving nine years in the state legislature, then voted for me to get the job in the first place.

01:06:13.727 --> 01:06:22.027
That's what folks can do. If you decide that you want to change things, you have to vote.

01:06:22.787 --> 01:06:26.207
I thought I was doing a good job. The majority of people in my district said,

01:06:26.367 --> 01:06:30.667
no, we want to go in a different direction. You've had it for nine years. Okay.

01:06:31.527 --> 01:06:38.347
And you move on. I got more votes than any other black man in the history of

01:06:38.347 --> 01:06:40.687
the state of Mississippi in 2008.

01:06:42.107 --> 01:06:45.967
I got nearly 500,000 votes statewide.

01:06:46.847 --> 01:06:50.407
My opponent got more votes than he ever got in his life.

01:06:50.867 --> 01:06:57.867
He got 700,000 votes. Never had gotten it. He had been in Congress since 1979.

01:06:58.927 --> 01:07:06.567
People show up. Things change. or they stay the same, but it makes an incredible difference.

01:07:06.787 --> 01:07:10.187
If the normal turnout for him had come out, I would have been a US senator.

01:07:11.007 --> 01:07:15.547
But people showed up to vote because they felt they wanted to keep them in that position.

01:07:17.187 --> 01:07:22.127
And nearly a million Mississippians said, you know what? We want something different.

01:07:24.271 --> 01:07:28.631
Black people. And there were vote left on the table.

01:07:28.891 --> 01:07:32.331
Then there were people that didn't vote. Gary Chambers in Louisiana.

01:07:33.191 --> 01:07:40.091
If all the black, well, let's not say all. Let's just say if he had a 70% turnout,

01:07:40.831 --> 01:07:45.011
that election might have been too close to call when he ran for U.S. Senate in Louisiana.

01:07:45.751 --> 01:07:48.531
Same way with Dr. Jones in Arkansas when he ran for governor.

01:07:48.631 --> 01:07:53.151
Sarah Huckabee Sanders There's wouldn't be the Arkansas is almost 20 percent black.

01:07:53.911 --> 01:07:58.051
It would have been a lot closer. And I'm just focusing on black folks because

01:07:58.051 --> 01:08:00.531
there's a lot of white folks that took a walk.

01:08:01.571 --> 01:08:04.031
This election. Whatever is.

01:08:05.131 --> 01:08:10.851
The easiest thing you can do. There were people in line in Arizona for hours.

01:08:11.831 --> 01:08:16.131
Why? Because they had to vote on five pages worth of stuff.

01:08:16.311 --> 01:08:18.771
Not only elected officials, but the referendums. referendums,

01:08:18.911 --> 01:08:20.271
and they stood in that line.

01:08:20.911 --> 01:08:26.431
And you couldn't? If you lived in the state of Georgia, you could have been out in five minutes.

01:08:27.431 --> 01:08:31.491
Five. And they had three items as referendums.

01:08:32.551 --> 01:08:40.271
Five. This is a political show. So if you don't vote, I'm not going to reward you.

01:08:40.831 --> 01:08:44.611
I'm going to chastise you. I'm going to tell you where you can go and how to get there.

01:08:45.471 --> 01:08:49.631
Because politics plays a major role in your life. And if you don't believe it,

01:08:49.851 --> 01:08:52.251
just watch what happens over these next four years.

01:08:53.251 --> 01:08:57.171
If you didn't like what happened during the Biden administration, oh, my God.

01:08:58.351 --> 01:09:01.711
Now, the people of either side are going to have their opinions one way or the

01:09:01.711 --> 01:09:06.211
other, but you have no side because you didn't vote. And that was the killer.

01:09:07.431 --> 01:09:14.991
Now, if you didn't vote because, you know, like the man that was running and

01:09:14.991 --> 01:09:18.651
you sure weren't going to vote for a woman, That's an issue you have to deal

01:09:18.651 --> 01:09:22.091
with If you didn't vote because I don't like U.S.

01:09:22.271 --> 01:09:26.431
Policy in Israel Or Ukraine or whatever You not voting didn't help that,

01:09:27.311 --> 01:09:30.511
You didn't have a say so in the president You didn't have a say so in the vice

01:09:30.511 --> 01:09:34.651
president You didn't have a say so in the members of Congress None of that In

01:09:34.651 --> 01:09:38.651
some states you didn't even have a say so in your governor Because you didn't vote,

01:09:39.831 --> 01:09:45.251
And all I ask you to do I don't want you To necessarily vote for the person

01:09:45.251 --> 01:09:47.751
I'm going to vote for But I need you to vote.

01:09:48.471 --> 01:09:53.211
It doesn't make any sense for more people to vote for who the next American

01:09:53.211 --> 01:09:58.391
idol is than to vote for who the president of the United States is going to be. Never.

01:10:00.650 --> 01:10:04.530
On the phone in the middle of the Super Bowl and vote for who the MVP is,

01:10:04.750 --> 01:10:09.110
you can get off your butt and go to a polling place and vote for who your president's

01:10:09.110 --> 01:10:11.370
going to be. Period. End of discussion.

01:10:12.650 --> 01:10:16.690
That is who I'm really, really mad at. Kamala Harris did the best she could

01:10:16.690 --> 01:10:20.250
do. Donald Trump did exactly what he was going to do.

01:10:20.870 --> 01:10:25.690
He did exactly what he was going to do. He got his folks to come back.

01:10:26.450 --> 01:10:28.890
He stayed on his formula.

01:10:30.070 --> 01:10:33.390
Wikipedia can call it fascism, authoritarianism, and all that.

01:10:33.610 --> 01:10:37.870
I'm not here to disagree with them at all, but it's brand for him.

01:10:38.290 --> 01:10:41.970
He kept saying, make America great again. And the same amount of people that

01:10:41.970 --> 01:10:44.050
voted for him four years ago showed back up.

01:10:44.570 --> 01:10:48.770
The people that voted for Joe Biden did not. So that's on you.

01:10:49.650 --> 01:10:53.950
If you happen to be a white man or a black man or a Latino man or a Latino woman

01:10:53.950 --> 01:10:57.490
or an Asian man or an Asian woman or a Latino,

01:10:57.850 --> 01:11:04.670
I mean, a black woman or a white woman didn't vote. It didn't matter.

01:11:05.890 --> 01:11:12.710
Elections have consequences. And those who don't participate in elections face

01:11:12.710 --> 01:11:17.310
those consequences just as equally as those who do.

01:11:18.350 --> 01:11:26.130
So my advice to you going forward is to take advantage of that right you have

01:11:26.130 --> 01:11:33.950
and vote because you could get a situation where if you don't use it,

01:11:34.090 --> 01:11:36.990
you could lose it. That's not hyperbole.

01:11:37.810 --> 01:11:40.090
That's the state of where we are right now.

01:11:41.050 --> 01:11:47.130
So I would strongly encourage you all from this point forward to vote.

01:11:47.970 --> 01:11:51.250
That's all I got time for right now.

01:11:54.226 --> 01:11:57.446
But that's the most frustrating thing to me. I think, you know,

01:11:57.706 --> 01:12:00.046
we're going to go through this period.

01:12:00.946 --> 01:12:06.426
People are trying to assess good friends that are political scientists that

01:12:06.426 --> 01:12:08.826
are going to try to parse and figure out.

01:12:09.786 --> 01:12:14.746
Was it the economy? Was it immigration? Was it sexism? Was it racism?

01:12:16.046 --> 01:12:20.106
And to be honest, there will be probably valid points on all those.

01:12:21.226 --> 01:12:25.886
But to me, the most unforgivable thing in a democracy,

01:12:26.506 --> 01:12:33.926
especially when that very privilege is on the line, that very right is on the

01:12:33.926 --> 01:12:36.566
line, is when people don't use it.

01:12:37.586 --> 01:12:44.286
Because there are some folks that were praying that you didn't vote and you

01:12:44.286 --> 01:12:45.426
fulfilled their prayers.

01:12:46.406 --> 01:12:53.126
So, you know, I don't know if this will reach any of those people.

01:12:53.846 --> 01:12:59.106
Probably not, because most of the people who listen to this program vote one way or the other.

01:12:59.786 --> 01:13:06.346
But I do want people to understand that that was the reason why the Vice President

01:13:06.346 --> 01:13:08.286
of the United States didn't get promoted.

01:13:09.026 --> 01:13:12.206
It wasn't pro-Palestinian folks.

01:13:13.186 --> 01:13:18.566
It wasn't black men. It wasn't Latino men. It wasn't even white women.

01:13:19.386 --> 01:13:24.386
It was those human beings who didn't vote, plain and simple.

01:13:26.206 --> 01:13:31.006
But we'll do our part in this podcast to try to convince y'all that you need to do that.

01:13:32.946 --> 01:13:37.046
And we'll make a concerted effort to get you engaged one way to the other,

01:13:37.546 --> 01:13:42.246
along with my other fellow podcasters that deal in news and politics.

01:13:43.026 --> 01:13:44.766
And we'll see if we can do better.

01:13:45.726 --> 01:13:48.326
Thank you all for listening. Until next time.

01:13:49.360 --> 01:14:36.774
Music.