Politics Breakdown Featuring Dr. Tammy Greer, Les Leopold and Dr. Jasmine Clark

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Hello and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And we're going from one extreme to the other. It's like we didn't have any

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guests last week, so you just got to listen to little old me ranting rave for about an hour.

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But this week, we've got three guests. Two of them have been on the show before.

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Good friend that's a political scientist here in Georgia and quick becoming a

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friend that has been involved in labor issues and is a very prolific author.

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And so we're going to talk about his latest book.

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Then I've got a candidate for Congress.

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I've been fortunate to have some other candidates for Congress,

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you know, in other parts of the country.

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And this one is running in a race in Georgia and early voting is going on right

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now. So for her to take her time out of campaigning, come on a podcast,

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I greatly appreciate that.

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And I hope that you get something from that, especially if you live in the state

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of Georgia, that this conversation will help you in making your decision.

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Boy, things are going pretty fast after that Louisiana versus Callais decision.

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And I'm going to get into that a little bit after the interviews.

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But what an important time for independent voices in the podcasting world.

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You know, I was listening to somebody on Instagram bring up the fact that what's

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going on in Tennessee hasn't really been covered thoroughly in the major media markets.

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You know, major networks.

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But, you know, it's been all over social media and, you know,

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some of the cable networks, of course, have covered it. But what we call the

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legacy media has really been kind of lax in the coverage on that.

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So that's why you need to have independent voices like A Moment with Erik Fleming,

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for example, to at least keep you up to date with what's going on.

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I don't do a daily podcast anymore, so that's, you know, mine is more summaries than anything else.

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But there are other podcasters out there that are doing it on a daily or at

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least, you know, two or three times a week.

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So, you know, please listen to them as well as listen to this podcast so you

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can kind of get a feel for what's really happening and what's really going on.

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So please support us. You can support A Moment With Erik Fleming by going to

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www.momenterik.com. and you can support the podcast just by listening.

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So you can also support the podcast through donations, either a one-time donation

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But you can set up something on Patreon.com to be a monthly subscriber.

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As I tell people, it's only a dollar for the very basic thing.

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If you want something nice like a mug or a T-shirt, you can pay a little more.

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And that's the thank you for taking that extra step.

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But yeah, just go to www.momenteric.com. And, you know, if this is your first

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time listening, welcome. them.

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If you're a regular listener, please, please do that. You can write reviews, the whole nine yards.

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Just anything you can do to support independent podcasters, especially Black

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podcasters in this time, will be greatly appreciated.

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All right. Having said all that, it's time to kick this program off.

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And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Thanks, Erik. The Virginia State Supreme Court ruled that the state's recent

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redistricting referendum was unconstitutional.

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Republican governors in Alabama and Tennessee called special sessions to draw

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and approve new congressional maps ahead of the midterm elections.

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Spirit Airlines has ceased operations after failing to secure a government bailout,

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becoming the first major aviation casualty of rising fuel prices and economic

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instability caused by the war in Iran. The U.S.

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Supreme Court issued an administrative stay to temporarily preserve nationwide

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access to the abortion pill via telemedicine and mail.

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Federal agents conducted a corruption-related search of Virginia Senate leader

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Louise Lucas' district office and business, following her prominent role in

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leading the state's recent redistricting efforts.

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Sherrod Brown won the Ohio Democratic primary to challenge Republican John Husted

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in a race critical for U.S. Senate control.

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Vivek Ramaswamy won the Republican primary for Ohio governor and will face Democrat

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Amy Action in the general election.

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In the Indiana Republican primary, Trump-endorsed challengers defeated five

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Republican state senators who had blocked his redistricting plans.

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A federal judge has ruled that the Justice Department is allowed to keep 2020

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election ballots seized during an FBI search of the Fulton County Board of Elections.

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U.S. and Moroccan forces launched a search-and-rescue operation for two American

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service members who went missing after reportedly falling into the ocean during

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the African lion military exercise.

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A federal judge blocked the Trump administration's attempt to end temporary

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legal protections for Yemeni nationals.

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The Pennsylvania House of Representatives passed a bill to ban discriminatory

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member-only housing practices, closing a legal loophole that extremist groups

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used to establish segregated communities.

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And CNN founder Ted Turner died at the age of 87.

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I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for

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my guest, Dr. Tammy Greer.

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Dr. Greer currently serves as a clinical assistant professor and director of

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the BIS Social Entrepreneurship Program in the Public Management and Policy

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Department at the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies at Georgia State University.

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She has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and a master of security management,

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both from the University of Houston downtown, as well as a PhD in political

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science from Clark Atlanta University, with focus areas in American government,

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including state and local government, urban politics,

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comparative politics, and international politics.

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She has served in numerous capacities in the private sector,

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as well as the public sector, including as an educator.

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Dr. Greer's interests include community and civic involvement,

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focusing on how policy and the lack of equitable public policy impact historically

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underserved communities.

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She advocates for consistent civic engagement in voting, especially in non-presidential

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elections, which means voting for all positions on the ballot.

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Dr. Greer served as a board member on several organizations,

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including Georgia Women Connect, Media Policy Center, and the community chair

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working to create community garden in an urban food desert community.

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Dr. Greer has been interviewed in numerous state, nationwide,

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and international media outlets, including CNBC, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation,

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NPR, Washington Post, WGN.

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Christian Science Monitor, and the Atlanta General Constitution regarding politics and policy.

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She is the author of the forthcoming book, Checks Without Change,

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Moving from Protest to Policy.

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And she is a frequent guest.

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Of a moment with Erik Fleming. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor

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and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Dr. Tammy Greer.

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All right. Dr. Tammy Greer. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?

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I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing okay.

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You know, like I tell people, I do the podcast with therapy.

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So I think this is a good time to have some therapy going on.

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So I'm going to do something a little different with you this time since you've been on before.

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But I do want you to respond to this quote because I I thought this was pretty cool.

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You said policy shapes every issue our students care about.

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When they begin to see that connection, they understand they have a role to

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play in improving their communities. Talk to me about that quote.

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Sometimes the way that we view policy is that it's separate from who we are

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and what we want to do in life.

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And when we understand that it is a natural connection, that policy manages

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every single thing that we do, then we become invested in policy generally.

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We may start off with being invested in specific policies, so whether we are

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interested in art or in computer science or in engineering, then we will become

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interested in policy as it pertains to those specific areas.

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And then we'll begin to realize that policy then has a ripple effect into every other aspect.

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And once we can start talking about policy rather than the politicking,

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then we can get more people invested in the process that helps this republic

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to perhaps continue for another 250 years.

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Yeah, that's hopeful thinking.

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I think you're on the right track.

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I think people need to be more articulate about the issues and the connectivity

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of those issues, because a lot of people just feel that politics is over there,

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and I'm living my life, and that's something I've been preaching,

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and I'm just glad that there's other people in the pulpit doing the same thing.

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All right, let's get into it, Doc. What are your thoughts on Louisiana versus

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Callais, which dealt with the section two of the Voting Rights Act?

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Sure. So my thoughts are very different or maybe more nuanced and perhaps hopeful,

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as you described to me with my previous quote.

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So my thoughts are this, that when I read the decision that it is based on the

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Voting Rights Act and that Louisiana,

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according to the VRA in 1965, had only one majority minority seat.

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And then when Louisiana changed its map in 2022, it drew two.

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And that was the challenge, that second district instead of, and not the first.

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So it's not both of them, it's just the more recent one.

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And so that got me to thinking that if we,

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while I understand from a historical standpoint that it was critically important

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post-Reconstruction and all of that damage with Jim Crow and just, you know,

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years and years of oppression that the Voting Rights Act allowed for there to

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be some type of reconciliation.

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If we can use that word, for people, for Black people in particular,

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to be able to have voting significance, right?

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Their vote mattered in terms of representation.

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I get that. So now that we've moved forward for these past 60 plus years,

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the question that I have is, number one,

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why are we satisfied with just, why are we satisfied with carving out.

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A seat or two, right? Mississippi had one and now they got two and now they're

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about to challenge that second one.

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Why are we satisfied with those two versus as we discuss so many times during

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presidential years, as well as during a midterm election years,

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the significance of the Black vote.

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If we believe that we have a role to play overall, why are we confining ourselves

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to those one or two seats?

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Because many of the folks in Louisiana, in Mississippi, in Georgia,

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in Alabama don't live necessarily in those compressed areas.

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They also live in other spaces throughout the States,

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which means that they can have an electoral advantage in those districts to

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create competitive spaces where you don't necessarily need to have a far-right conservative that is.

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Always in that seat, or to have a Democrat to be in that seat,

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and it's the same Democrat for multiple years.

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Why are we okay with that? I think that we should really be into the space of

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when we say that our vote, the Black vote matters, and the Black vote has significance.

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You know, my thought is that we should treat that Black vote like we treat the

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Black vote for statewide races as well as presidential races,

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where people need to come and we need to show out.

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And if we could do that, then we won't need to be confined to one seat at a

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table to when the Voting Rights Act came that it was,

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what, 40 seats that we had at a 535-seat table.

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I think that we need to do more.

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I think that we should ask for more.

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I think that having more competitive races will allow for us to, overall as a country.

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To move beyond people having legacy seats, to move beyond people holding seats for a long time.

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Because even if we had that one seat in Louisiana, how many times is that Democrat

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who's holding that seat being primaried by somebody else?

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How many times do we allow for someone to primary that particular individual?

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We don't do that. So we don't have competitiveness inside of our own,

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quote unquote, safe seats.

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So how can we move the needle forward in this country when it comes to legislating

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for the masses if we're only confining ourselves to, I don't know,

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a fifth of our legislative body? I think we can do better than that.

00:17:45.241 --> 00:17:51.881
Well, I think that's definitely nuanced, as you said.

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I think the challenge is, you know, when we, you know, like when we look at

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people that come from, say,

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California or Illinois, where I'm originally from, there is a track record of

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white people voting for black candidates.

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As a matter of fact, all of the congressional districts that are represented

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by black folks in Congress in California are not majority black districts.

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So that's, you know, that's the idea.

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That's the situation you're, you're, you're pushing that we,

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it's like, we put a quality candidate out there and let the people decide.

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And if, you know, and hopefully that person will win, you know,

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and when you see states like Delaware, elect a black person to be the U.S. senator.

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That's the goal that you're pushing. But you and I are now here in the South.

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And it's like the minute that that decision came out,

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In Mississippi, where I where I cut my political teeth, really,

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they're talking about drawing the one black district that we got out in Louisiana.

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They've got a map now where instead of just conceding that one seat for,

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I guess, that's Congressman Carter in out of New Orleans.

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Now they got a map where New Orleans is like divided and everything is fanning out.

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I don't know if that's going to make it on the floor or anything, but it's out there.

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So they it's like, you know, the spirit of the Voting Rights Act was to deal

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with the southern states because that genetic, you know, you can call it genetics or whatever.

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But that that tradition of not respecting black votes or black representation,

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you know, that's why they had

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to go through the plea clearance and Section 5 and all the other stuff.

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Alabama is in a special session now trying to figure out if they can not only

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get rid of congressman figures, but Congresswoman Sewell do.

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So I think that's where the that's where the tension is.

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It's not, you know, I've expressed to you and other people that my goal is to see.

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A black person run as a Democrat nominee and a black person run as a Republican

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nominee for president, but we're not there yet.

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And I think that's, that's, that's the, the, the, the concern that, that a lot of us have.

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I, we just, you know, Georgia has been very lucky.

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I would say Reverend Warnock to be able to win a Senate race and that the Republican

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party conceded that and put a black person up against him when he ran for the

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first time, you know, for the full term.

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But that's the only other southern states you're going to see that.

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When I ran, Mike Espy ran, and now Scott Colon's running in Mississippi,

00:20:55.587 --> 00:21:02.667
you know, we're going up against some white Republican that's been there for a minute, right?

00:21:02.947 --> 00:21:06.307
Mike was the only one that actually got to run an open seat, as a matter of fact.

00:21:06.807 --> 00:21:10.767
Harold Ford, when he ran in Tennessee, he had to, it was an open seat,

00:21:10.767 --> 00:21:16.727
But it was just and he was a sitting congressman and he he lost to a mayor of a city. Right.

00:21:17.027 --> 00:21:21.407
So, I mean, that's I think that's that's where I come from.

00:21:21.587 --> 00:21:28.387
I, you know, I've seen what you talk, what you've talked about,

00:21:28.967 --> 00:21:34.367
but I'm I'm not seeing it here in the South right now.

00:21:34.367 --> 00:21:41.027
And that's why I think this thing has been devastating, because half of the

00:21:41.027 --> 00:21:45.167
Black population in the country, or over half, is in the South.

00:21:45.427 --> 00:21:50.687
And if we're going to have political power, we still need to have protection.

00:21:51.887 --> 00:21:55.947
Professor, tell me where I'm wrong. Are you...

00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:03.570
No, it's not where you're wrong. To me, it's an and, right? It's a both and.

00:22:03.970 --> 00:22:11.950
And the other and is, yes, more than 50% of Black people live in the South,

00:22:12.250 --> 00:22:16.130
yet we're voting way below our weight.

00:22:16.130 --> 00:22:19.990
And if we're voting way below our weight,

00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:30.070
we're asking for those that participate regularly to create the space for the

00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:35.190
majority of us who are not participating in all of these elections.

00:22:35.190 --> 00:22:42.010
So we can have these great get-out-the-vote efforts by all these civic groups

00:22:42.010 --> 00:22:48.570
in a presidential year or in a high-stakes midterm.

00:22:48.830 --> 00:22:55.570
Yet, where are we when it comes to the get-out-the-vote and the support of candidates

00:22:55.570 --> 00:23:00.390
running for these state houses where these districts are drawn?

00:23:00.930 --> 00:23:07.390
That's where we're having a lack of, right? So we're already voting below average

00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:13.530
in presidential years, yet it's still a higher percentage, yet that's in presidential years.

00:23:13.910 --> 00:23:20.470
And then when we look at midterm elections, when we look at local elections, we're not there, right?

00:23:20.650 --> 00:23:24.550
In Georgia, this is, we're ending our second week of early voting.

00:23:25.328 --> 00:23:30.728
And when you look at the, while the number of folks who have voted early is

00:23:30.728 --> 00:23:35.548
technically higher than it has been, it is still far lower.

00:23:35.968 --> 00:23:42.028
So where are we in supporting these efforts?

00:23:42.028 --> 00:23:48.968
And if we are not supporting these efforts by using the privilege that the Voting

00:23:48.968 --> 00:23:51.928
Rights Act of 1965 has given us,

00:23:52.068 --> 00:23:58.748
then we're like fighting against a headwind here because we're wanting more,

00:23:58.948 --> 00:24:06.528
yet we're not moving collectively to say we really do want more and then want

00:24:06.528 --> 00:24:10.908
things codified because we're not moving collectively for that.

00:24:10.908 --> 00:24:16.748
And that's where elected officials, because they want to be reelected.

00:24:17.008 --> 00:24:23.648
So if they want to be reelected, then the people voting for them need to move

00:24:23.648 --> 00:24:27.668
in the same direction to push them to do what we want them to do.

00:24:27.668 --> 00:24:33.668
And sometimes we, we collective, you know, universal we, we take,

00:24:33.968 --> 00:24:38.528
we think that the people who are running for office or who are in office,

00:24:38.708 --> 00:24:40.348
like we're beholding to them.

00:24:40.588 --> 00:24:46.648
No, we have the ability to hire and fire them. And we don't do that.

00:24:46.848 --> 00:24:54.448
We let them off the hook instead of moving in the spirit to which we say we

00:24:54.448 --> 00:24:56.968
want things done. We have to move in that way.

00:24:58.025 --> 00:25:06.365
Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I think I sat in on that Zoom call that they

00:25:06.365 --> 00:25:09.145
had this weekend when with black women.

00:25:09.965 --> 00:25:18.845
And I think, you know, the decision has kind of spurred them to do what you've asked them.

00:25:18.845 --> 00:25:23.785
What you're asking to do is that put some, you know, focus in on,

00:25:24.225 --> 00:25:29.345
because there was a lot of discussion about not just focusing in on this election

00:25:29.345 --> 00:25:31.745
and getting turnout and all that,

00:25:31.845 --> 00:25:39.325
but also even staying focused for the presidential election in 28 and even the census in 30,

00:25:39.625 --> 00:25:42.525
because all those things are going to be important as

00:25:42.525 --> 00:25:45.825
far as getting the turnout

00:25:45.825 --> 00:25:49.605
and getting an accurate number i think stacy

00:25:49.605 --> 00:25:52.845
abrams said that 90 million people didn't vote

00:25:52.845 --> 00:25:56.345
in the presidential election in 2024 and she

00:25:56.345 --> 00:25:59.185
said her mission in life is to get

00:25:59.185 --> 00:26:06.045
those 90 million people to show up it was 96 million oh wow so that's her mission

00:26:06.045 --> 00:26:10.345
in life is to get those people because they're already registered we just got

00:26:10.345 --> 00:26:16.865
to get them yeah all right so i guess we kind of talked about.

00:26:17.803 --> 00:26:24.643
The impact is, well, so in the scenario I just gave you, the impact on Black

00:26:24.643 --> 00:26:27.983
representation, the New York Times put out a map.

00:26:28.103 --> 00:26:30.703
And I think that's what kind of got people stirred up.

00:26:31.023 --> 00:26:36.203
The New York Times showed a map of the current Black representation in the South.

00:26:36.663 --> 00:26:42.803
And then based on their reporting, they put out a map of what it's going to

00:26:42.803 --> 00:26:46.023
look like if all these states do this redistricting.

00:26:47.663 --> 00:26:50.923
And you know Mississippi's gonna it was

00:26:50.923 --> 00:26:53.763
basically red till you got to Georgia and then

00:26:53.763 --> 00:26:58.003
there was some blue dots right around Atlanta and then it was red till you got

00:26:58.003 --> 00:27:02.283
to South Carolina I think there was some a blue dot there and then you got to

00:27:02.283 --> 00:27:07.823
North Carolina and there was a blue dot there in Florida it's like when that

00:27:07.823 --> 00:27:12.263
New York Times map came out and showed that basically all those black districts,

00:27:12.323 --> 00:27:14.923
except a select few, are going to be wiped out.

00:27:15.283 --> 00:27:19.883
I think that's what really kind of stirred people. It was one thing to hear

00:27:19.883 --> 00:27:24.303
that the decision happened, but that visual kind of got some people going.

00:27:25.203 --> 00:27:27.663
And if they're going to do it to the congressional districts,

00:27:28.183 --> 00:27:30.623
then they're going to go in these state districts too.

00:27:31.123 --> 00:27:34.423
So what would be,

00:27:34.643 --> 00:27:40.023
I guess my question to you would be, What would be the impact if that nightmare

00:27:40.023 --> 00:27:46.103
scenario happens and we lose, you know, those seats in the South,

00:27:46.403 --> 00:27:48.163
especially at the state legislative level?

00:27:49.167 --> 00:28:00.047
So what would happen is you would see that the map looks more like it did after

00:28:00.047 --> 00:28:03.807
the Civil Rights Act was signed, right?

00:28:03.927 --> 00:28:11.067
Where you saw the party switch from the South being predominantly old school,

00:28:11.467 --> 00:28:16.827
you know, really old school Democrats to them being Republican.

00:28:16.827 --> 00:28:19.807
And that's what you would see. Again, though.

00:28:20.287 --> 00:28:25.967
The variable that we're missing when we're looking at history and we're looking

00:28:25.967 --> 00:28:32.527
at today is that today we have the ability to participate in this system,

00:28:32.887 --> 00:28:40.347
whereas before it was inconsistent whether or not the law allowed for us to participate.

00:28:40.347 --> 00:28:46.547
So generally speaking today, we have that ability to participate and because we do,

00:28:46.907 --> 00:28:55.827
the question that I am really pushing us to sit in is whether or not we're using

00:28:55.827 --> 00:29:01.987
our privilege to participate as a voting member in this country.

00:29:01.987 --> 00:29:14.387
Are we using that privilege to our advantage or are we ceding our citizenship in terms of voting?

00:29:14.387 --> 00:29:21.627
Are we ceding that to a group of people who are intentionally carving out.

00:29:22.673 --> 00:29:31.353
And diluting our ability to impact the elections and to impact elected officials.

00:29:31.773 --> 00:29:38.313
So it's like one of those things where are we ceding our vote and we're just

00:29:38.313 --> 00:29:40.373
not participating and say, you know what, it's all rigged.

00:29:41.033 --> 00:29:42.913
People are going to do what they want to do anyway.

00:29:43.653 --> 00:29:48.753
And the people who are in office, they're all crooks and all of this other stuff

00:29:48.753 --> 00:29:53.013
that we tell ourselves to make it easier for us not to participate.

00:29:53.573 --> 00:29:58.233
Or do we participate and then we push toward the things that we want?

00:29:58.693 --> 00:30:04.393
And if we're not doing that part and we're saying, well, I'm not going to participate

00:30:04.393 --> 00:30:08.913
anyway because it doesn't matter, then why are we really frustrated?

00:30:09.433 --> 00:30:16.333
Why are we angry? Like if you opt out of the game, then how can you then talk

00:30:16.333 --> 00:30:18.213
about the plays that are being called?

00:30:18.533 --> 00:30:22.653
How can you then have commentary on how the players are behaving?

00:30:23.113 --> 00:30:28.533
We have the ability for most of us to be in this game.

00:30:28.533 --> 00:30:32.873
And then those of us who talk about social justice,

00:30:33.233 --> 00:30:38.373
who talk about the impact of some of these policies, you have the ability to

00:30:38.373 --> 00:30:46.073
get into the arena to change some of these policies so that there could be more equity.

00:30:46.073 --> 00:30:50.773
So that we can talk about people who are formerly incarcerated,

00:30:50.813 --> 00:30:55.573
ensuring that they have the ability to vote. And so then they are no longer

00:30:55.573 --> 00:30:59.353
being taxed without being represented, right?

00:30:59.633 --> 00:31:07.273
Then we can make these differences. But if we're opting out because somebody changed the rules...

00:31:08.351 --> 00:31:17.591
Then you're like seeding the game. I don't know how we can just sit back rather

00:31:17.591 --> 00:31:24.351
than forcefully being in this arena all the time because they're not seeding their ground.

00:31:24.771 --> 00:31:29.751
When you think about it, if they get a win, they're not sitting down.

00:31:30.191 --> 00:31:36.791
Why do we get a piece of a win and sit down? We cannot sit down. We have to be creative.

00:31:37.131 --> 00:31:40.111
We have to understand the structure and function of government.

00:31:40.311 --> 00:31:46.811
We have to understand these laws and how these laws are created and the impact of them.

00:31:47.011 --> 00:31:56.131
We have to be in the arena at every level, at every corner, all the time, and work toward this.

00:31:56.211 --> 00:32:03.111
And we cannot only have certain people or 10% of the community doing all of

00:32:03.111 --> 00:32:06.771
this work and then complaining that stuff isn't done.

00:32:06.991 --> 00:32:10.571
I don't see how we benefit from that.

00:32:11.311 --> 00:32:18.111
Yeah. Are you surprised that Governor Kemp has not gotten on no Southern redistricting train?

00:32:19.291 --> 00:32:23.291
No, I am not surprised. It is on brand.

00:32:24.011 --> 00:32:28.251
It makes sense for Georgia because, number one, As you said,

00:32:29.071 --> 00:32:36.531
the economic power that Metro Atlanta has.

00:32:37.744 --> 00:32:40.764
You know, helps to run the entire state.

00:32:41.044 --> 00:32:47.524
We also have to fully appreciate that, you know, Black folk live all over Georgia.

00:32:48.024 --> 00:32:53.864
So there may be some concentrations in Metro and there's concentrations along

00:32:53.864 --> 00:32:58.984
the fall line or the Black Belt or the Cotton Belt, whatever one you want to call it, right?

00:32:59.264 --> 00:33:02.764
There's a concentration there. There's a concentration in South Georgia.

00:33:03.224 --> 00:33:13.184
So, you know, to do that is to put additional, you know, depending on how you barbecue.

00:33:13.524 --> 00:33:22.064
So my daddy used coal. So put more coal on there to make it hotter politically in the state.

00:33:22.244 --> 00:33:30.124
So if the governor were to do that, then that would make a whole bunch of people angry.

00:33:30.604 --> 00:33:38.564
And it's already thought to be a midterm that is going to be a major win for

00:33:38.564 --> 00:33:43.844
Democrats in the House of Representatives and very well could be in the U.S. Senate.

00:33:44.104 --> 00:33:52.444
So you're going to put more political pressure on these spaces where you also

00:33:52.444 --> 00:33:59.104
could have some Republicans to lose their seats in the State House and the House

00:33:59.104 --> 00:34:03.744
of Representatives on the federal level on top of gas prices,

00:34:03.984 --> 00:34:06.964
on top of inflation, on top of high groceries,

00:34:07.344 --> 00:34:12.264
on top of people feeling some kind of way about the war in Iran,

00:34:12.644 --> 00:34:17.104
all of these things, and then you want to redistrict on top of that.

00:34:17.724 --> 00:34:23.544
You're wishing for your state to flip if you do that.

00:34:24.456 --> 00:34:33.616
So the governor has more tact in understanding that there has been great interest

00:34:33.616 --> 00:34:38.956
in Georgia, which means that more money is going to flood into Georgia for these midterms.

00:34:39.156 --> 00:34:48.276
The governor also knows that there has been increase in participation by some of the voters,

00:34:48.276 --> 00:34:56.536
as well as to your own point about people moving from other areas across the

00:34:56.536 --> 00:35:04.796
country into the South and having more understanding of their power of the vote.

00:35:05.516 --> 00:35:09.736
And so they participate more. So if you do some of these things,

00:35:10.016 --> 00:35:15.456
you're literally disrupting your own political party inside of your state.

00:35:15.456 --> 00:35:22.816
And so the governor is more strategic and understands that consider the long

00:35:22.816 --> 00:35:25.856
game rather than short-term wins.

00:35:26.576 --> 00:35:31.396
So, okay, like you said, the early voting has started.

00:35:32.536 --> 00:35:39.756
How are the races for governor and otherwise other statewide shaping up from

00:35:39.756 --> 00:35:41.776
what you can assess? Yes.

00:35:42.560 --> 00:35:48.480
So many of our races, of course, are going to go into a runoff because there

00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:54.340
are way too many candidates for each side for the different races.

00:35:54.580 --> 00:35:59.360
So if you have all of these folks running, it is highly unlikely someone is

00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:05.540
going to get 50 plus 1% of the vote, right?

00:36:05.720 --> 00:36:08.460
50.1% of the votes. It's highly unlikely.

00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:15.940
So because of that, then we can anticipate going back to the polls in June for a runoff.

00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:19.220
And, you know, on the one hand,

00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:26.140
it's healthy for our form of government to go through these folks and to let

00:36:26.140 --> 00:36:30.960
them make the case for it and to talk to as many people as possible because

00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.540
that's what it's supposed to be about.

00:36:33.220 --> 00:36:36.820
On the other hand, you know, elections cost a lot of money.

00:36:37.180 --> 00:36:44.320
So these counties are spending tons and tons of money doing these elections.

00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.500
So if we have our primary,

00:36:47.700 --> 00:36:51.720
which we have going on right now, plus the runoff, plus the general election,

00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:56.840
and if there is a runoff in the general election, depending on if independent

00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:59.500
parties are on the general election ballot,

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.200
then there's just a lot of money that's going on. To the election.

00:37:04.680 --> 00:37:06.700
So it'll be very interesting.

00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:14.980
There seems in some of the races seem to be enthusiasm for some of these statewide

00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:19.600
races that I don't think has happened before.

00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:24.020
So I'm thinking of like the Supreme Court, Georgia Supreme Court.

00:37:24.020 --> 00:37:27.420
I'm thinking of the Secretary of State.

00:37:27.860 --> 00:37:31.320
I'm thinking of Attorney General.

00:37:31.540 --> 00:37:39.380
Like those racists tend to have more interest from the Democratic side in particular

00:37:39.380 --> 00:37:41.980
to run against an incumbent Republican.

00:37:43.389 --> 00:37:47.889
Yeah, so I'm glad you brought up the Supreme Court race because,

00:37:47.889 --> 00:37:51.549
you know, that's something that a lot of people are watching,

00:37:51.549 --> 00:37:56.969
especially with Jen Jordan and Miracle Rankin running.

00:37:57.609 --> 00:38:03.149
It's going to be interesting to see how they fare because this is their election.

00:38:03.549 --> 00:38:11.829
This is not a, you know, the winner of May 19th, they're going to be on the bench.

00:38:12.429 --> 00:38:15.169
It's but all the other folks have to go through

00:38:15.169 --> 00:38:17.989
that scenario you were talking about with the runoffs and all the

00:38:17.989 --> 00:38:20.809
way to november the way i'm looking at it

00:38:20.809 --> 00:38:29.609
on the democratic side it looks like keisha lance bottoms and jason estevez

00:38:29.609 --> 00:38:36.589
edging out duncan to for the runoff and on the republican side i think it's

00:38:36.589 --> 00:38:40.509
burt jones and rick jackson do you kind of feel that same way,

00:38:40.729 --> 00:38:45.169
or you think Duncan is doing better than what we're seeing?

00:38:46.089 --> 00:38:50.069
Duncan is doing better than, Duncan is doing better.

00:38:50.689 --> 00:38:59.329
I think that, so one of the questions I have to all the political strategists I know,

00:38:59.569 --> 00:39:07.189
to all of the political heads that I know, is you can win your primary.

00:39:07.669 --> 00:39:09.029
Do you win the general election?

00:39:10.149 --> 00:39:15.749
And the question for me is, or from me to everyone is.

00:39:17.183 --> 00:39:23.043
Are these folks on the Democratic side, are they able to win the general election?

00:39:23.783 --> 00:39:29.803
Because we've been winning primaries all day for 30 years.

00:39:30.103 --> 00:39:31.803
You've been winning primaries.

00:39:32.463 --> 00:39:36.123
How does that turn into a general election win?

00:39:36.703 --> 00:39:42.463
And if we are interested in just winning a primary, then okay.

00:39:42.463 --> 00:39:47.623
If you're interested in governing, then you need to win a general election.

00:39:48.083 --> 00:39:54.483
And so, you know, are we choosing people that are able to win a general election?

00:39:55.383 --> 00:40:03.143
I'm curious about that. In the primary, are we choosing people that we closely

00:40:03.143 --> 00:40:08.223
identify with, or are we choosing people that can win a general election?

00:40:08.783 --> 00:40:10.543
That's a hard decision to make.

00:40:11.383 --> 00:40:16.323
Well, you know, I don't, you know, most people are going to vote for people

00:40:16.323 --> 00:40:20.463
that they know or they feel comfortable with, you know,

00:40:20.623 --> 00:40:24.523
as George Bush would say, I don't think there's a whole lot of strategery in

00:40:24.523 --> 00:40:28.223
that, you know, but, you know,

00:40:28.503 --> 00:40:32.943
because that question came up when the two Stacys ran against each other a few years back.

00:40:32.943 --> 00:40:38.323
It was like, you know, a lot of people were like, yeah, we like Abrams,

00:40:38.523 --> 00:40:41.783
but maybe Evans has a better shot to win.

00:40:42.323 --> 00:40:47.703
But that goes back to your initial statement that if there are quality black

00:40:47.703 --> 00:40:54.523
candidates running, then we should believe that we're voting for somebody that

00:40:54.523 --> 00:40:55.843
can win in a general election.

00:40:56.643 --> 00:41:00.043
And, you know, people can make the argument that Jeff Duncan,

00:41:00.303 --> 00:41:05.623
you know, he's been a Republican statewide elected official.

00:41:06.383 --> 00:41:09.923
He's seen the light. He's coming over to the Democrats and all that.

00:41:11.215 --> 00:41:14.235
You know, people make the argument he's got a better shot to win.

00:41:14.275 --> 00:41:22.555
But if, you know, we believe that either Keisha Lance Bottoms or Jason Estevez

00:41:22.555 --> 00:41:25.515
or any of the other folks running are better people,

00:41:25.675 --> 00:41:29.955
then we have to believe that if we vote for them, that they're going to be the

00:41:29.955 --> 00:41:32.195
next person to sit at the governor's mansion.

00:41:32.195 --> 00:41:40.375
So I don't know I mean I've I've dealt with that in Mississippi and yeah yeah it's just.

00:41:41.395 --> 00:41:44.495
I've I've heard all those arguments I just think that

00:41:44.495 --> 00:41:47.435
you know the beauty of the system is

00:41:47.435 --> 00:41:50.335
that people vote for who they like and who they believe

00:41:50.335 --> 00:41:53.175
in and you know you just

00:41:53.175 --> 00:41:55.995
just take your chance just like a Kentucky Derby you

00:41:55.995 --> 00:41:58.895
just take your chance I I wouldn't put my money on

00:41:58.895 --> 00:42:01.615
golden tempo but I'm because of the

00:42:01.615 --> 00:42:05.395
history I'm glad Golden Tempo won but yeah

00:42:05.395 --> 00:42:08.615
it was like 30 to 1 odds so I wouldn't go vote I

00:42:08.615 --> 00:42:11.335
would support put my money on

00:42:11.335 --> 00:42:17.755
you know I was going with the the Renegade because I Renegade was like 6 to

00:42:17.755 --> 00:42:22.475
1 so I was like okay let's go with that so I think people people kind of look

00:42:22.475 --> 00:42:28.675
at it in that way you know they go they go go with their favorite and who they think can pull it off.

00:42:29.155 --> 00:42:35.015
So I always think people have that hope, you know, but, you know,

00:42:35.095 --> 00:42:37.815
and they don't try to get into the weeds like you and I would do.

00:42:38.535 --> 00:42:42.135
And yeah, we'll just see what happens. All right.

00:42:42.255 --> 00:42:48.715
So let me, let me, I want to ask you about one more race and then try to start closing it out.

00:42:49.335 --> 00:43:00.575
What is the impact of David Scott passing away on that Georgia 13 race? So the congressman had.

00:43:02.186 --> 00:43:11.246
Long history and resume and accomplishments that are and were needed for the time.

00:43:11.706 --> 00:43:19.986
And that was, you know, a tragic end to the timing, all of it,

00:43:20.286 --> 00:43:22.006
right? Him not being well.

00:43:22.606 --> 00:43:28.826
It was devastating to the district and devastating to the state of Georgia.

00:43:28.826 --> 00:43:32.306
I am It appeared

00:43:32.306 --> 00:43:35.226
to me that Excuse me

00:43:35.226 --> 00:43:38.466
Before his passing away That the

00:43:38.466 --> 00:43:42.386
race Looked to be competitive Before he

00:43:42.386 --> 00:43:46.166
passed away It seemed to be competitive And

00:43:46.166 --> 00:43:49.646
with His passing That

00:43:49.646 --> 00:43:52.826
has opened the door More for

00:43:52.826 --> 00:43:57.506
Perhaps the second Person to

00:43:57.506 --> 00:44:04.406
Pick a first place And maybe the third person To be the second person So it

00:44:04.406 --> 00:44:09.346
created I think it created more visibility for the race I also think it created

00:44:09.346 --> 00:44:15.306
some More aggressiveness By some of the candidates in that race To,

00:44:16.386 --> 00:44:20.826
Elbow their way to the top Of consideration for the voters.

00:44:22.686 --> 00:44:24.846
Yeah, that's where I think that went Thank you.

00:44:25.916 --> 00:44:32.136
Yeah, because I remember when Mark Baker ran, a lot of people felt that he was

00:44:32.136 --> 00:44:39.216
going to have a competitive race against David Scott because he was very progressive.

00:44:41.236 --> 00:44:48.296
Relatively young, and it just seemed like, and that was when that district was into Fulton County.

00:44:48.716 --> 00:44:51.776
He figured he was going to have a good showing in Fulton County,

00:44:51.776 --> 00:44:59.956
and then as it went on, You know, in Cobb and other places that it was,

00:45:00.156 --> 00:45:02.116
you know, he'd have a shot.

00:45:02.516 --> 00:45:05.756
And then when the numbers came out, he got beat 70-30.

00:45:06.676 --> 00:45:14.236
And everybody was like, really? So, you know, it's. Go ahead.

00:45:15.545 --> 00:45:23.405
Know why? The reason is because Georgia is not a progressive state. Georgia is moderate.

00:45:23.845 --> 00:45:29.665
It is a center state. And because it's a center state, then,

00:45:29.665 --> 00:45:36.965
you know, you could have pockets of progressive, progressive policies or progressiveness, right?

00:45:37.145 --> 00:45:41.965
You could have pockets of it, yet those pockets have to be, they're small and

00:45:41.965 --> 00:45:43.205
they're very strategic.

00:45:44.425 --> 00:45:51.025
You can't be, you know, all of that in the majority of this state.

00:45:51.445 --> 00:46:00.725
And sometimes one could argue the illusion of the city of Atlanta creates a

00:46:00.725 --> 00:46:05.645
thought that Georgia is more progressive than what it is. It is not.

00:46:05.945 --> 00:46:08.005
It's a very moderate state.

00:46:08.465 --> 00:46:12.105
Sometimes, depending on what that policy is, it could be center right.

00:46:12.325 --> 00:46:13.905
Sometimes it could be center left.

00:46:14.525 --> 00:46:19.425
Regardless, the thing that both of those have in common is center.

00:46:19.945 --> 00:46:29.685
And when you go too far to the left in some spaces, then the center will go

00:46:29.685 --> 00:46:31.705
toward the right, right?

00:46:31.905 --> 00:46:35.205
So you'll have pieces, pieces.

00:46:35.765 --> 00:46:46.965
And if candidates in Georgia only run or attempt to run, whether it is far left,

00:46:47.285 --> 00:46:50.905
then you will have conservatives,

00:46:51.365 --> 00:46:55.725
you will have MAGA to win in this state. The.

00:46:56.731 --> 00:47:02.371
It's not to say that you cannot be progressive. You have to fully appreciate

00:47:02.371 --> 00:47:09.191
that there are spaces in this state where people may go with you on some of

00:47:09.191 --> 00:47:10.791
those issues, yet overall,

00:47:11.071 --> 00:47:15.131
we are a center state. We are a center country.

00:47:15.591 --> 00:47:22.911
And if we think that everyone is thinking just like we do, or just like our

00:47:22.911 --> 00:47:25.671
small circle of people around us,

00:47:26.331 --> 00:47:35.131
then those that are on the left, even Democrats, will move toward the center

00:47:35.131 --> 00:47:36.731
or even toward the right.

00:47:37.551 --> 00:47:41.271
So I would like for candidates to consider that.

00:47:42.769 --> 00:47:46.889
That, you know, know your audience, know your state, know your district,

00:47:47.229 --> 00:47:53.309
that they are not as left as you think that they are. They are very center.

00:47:53.689 --> 00:48:01.809
And some of the policies that you champion, you know, climate is not a left issue.

00:48:02.189 --> 00:48:06.169
Climate is literally a center issue.

00:48:06.169 --> 00:48:11.169
And if you talk about climate from a center issue, if you talk about climate

00:48:11.169 --> 00:48:17.669
from a conservation standpoint, then you will get rural Georgia to go with you.

00:48:17.809 --> 00:48:25.389
You will get people below the fault line to agree with you because the climate impacts their crops.

00:48:25.609 --> 00:48:32.029
But if we're talking about climate as a far left issue, you are losing the very

00:48:32.029 --> 00:48:34.729
people that really agree with you.

00:48:34.729 --> 00:48:40.689
They just have a different way of describing and moving through this process.

00:48:40.989 --> 00:48:48.309
And if we don't change our language, which then perhaps could tweak our policies,

00:48:48.729 --> 00:48:55.109
then you're losing the very people that we then complain later about that are

00:48:55.109 --> 00:48:56.649
damaged by those policies.

00:48:56.869 --> 00:49:00.189
Well, it's because, you know, you didn't go talk to them, or maybe you didn't

00:49:00.189 --> 00:49:04.229
use the language that made sense to them. So we have to be, you know.

00:49:04.709 --> 00:49:09.129
Bilingual and trilingual in order to talk to these different audiences.

00:49:09.609 --> 00:49:13.369
Yeah. Yeah. Messaging is is is vital.

00:49:13.729 --> 00:49:17.889
So let's I got a couple more questions before before I let you go.

00:49:18.689 --> 00:49:22.709
Democrats in 2026 believe they will make significant gains in Congress.

00:49:23.069 --> 00:49:29.009
So on a scale, will it be a blue tsunami, a blue wave or a blue high tide?

00:49:31.309 --> 00:49:34.889
Going with high tide okay i'm gonna

00:49:34.889 --> 00:49:37.989
go with high tide yeah so you so when

00:49:37.989 --> 00:49:41.409
i so you don't think that the

00:49:41.409 --> 00:49:44.349
democrats will win the senate they'll just win the majority

00:49:44.349 --> 00:49:49.289
of the house and that'll be it that's that's what i would say is a high tide

00:49:49.289 --> 00:49:55.329
that's like the bare minimum okay the democrats a blue wave would be that the

00:49:55.329 --> 00:50:01.029
democrats get the house and barely get the majority in the senate And then a

00:50:01.029 --> 00:50:03.849
blue tsunami is like, you know,

00:50:05.129 --> 00:50:10.909
2006, where the Democrats just flipped it upside down and then took over the House and the Senate.

00:50:11.109 --> 00:50:16.189
But so you're thinking that the Democrats are going to go with the tsunami.

00:50:16.549 --> 00:50:20.869
Yeah, I'm going to go with the tsunami. OK, so you do think that nationwide

00:50:20.869 --> 00:50:23.189
the Democrats are going to be that successful.

00:50:24.485 --> 00:50:27.605
Yes. I think the Democrats will be that successful.

00:50:28.385 --> 00:50:37.005
The question is, what are they going to do January 20th, right?

00:50:37.185 --> 00:50:43.185
What are they going to do when they have the majority, when they have the gavel?

00:50:43.865 --> 00:50:48.305
How are they going to govern, right? And this will go back to,

00:50:48.305 --> 00:50:52.745
you know, that there'll be different factions within the Democratic Party.

00:50:52.985 --> 00:51:00.185
So are they going to be able to put some of their aggressiveness in terms of,

00:51:00.185 --> 00:51:03.365
like, wanting things for themselves individually?

00:51:03.365 --> 00:51:10.565
Are they going to be able to put those things aside and then move in a direction that makes sense?

00:51:10.785 --> 00:51:16.305
Or are they going to act like, you know, some of the Republicans have been doing

00:51:16.305 --> 00:51:18.045
and making it about them?

00:51:18.305 --> 00:51:23.985
And instead of looking at policies, it's very individualized.

00:51:23.985 --> 00:51:32.005
So that will be, to me, the determination of what will happen for the next two

00:51:32.005 --> 00:51:35.245
years until the 2028 presidential election.

00:51:35.245 --> 00:51:38.565
And I would caution all

00:51:38.565 --> 00:51:44.225
of us because we tend to do this way too often after especially midterm elections

00:51:44.225 --> 00:51:52.585
that we want voters in particular want to see this entirely new set of policies

00:51:52.585 --> 00:51:56.965
or an entirely new way of moving the country.

00:51:56.965 --> 00:52:02.425
Or, you know, all of these folks are going to want to see the president impeached

00:52:02.425 --> 00:52:06.065
and convicted and removed from office.

00:52:06.465 --> 00:52:11.805
And if that doesn't happen, then folks are feel let down and they're not going

00:52:11.805 --> 00:52:15.125
to vote in 2028, which is not going to make any sense.

00:52:16.042 --> 00:52:21.582
My question really is, you know, how are we as the electorate going to behave

00:52:21.582 --> 00:52:28.462
if you get these folks into office and if they're able to start repairing some

00:52:28.462 --> 00:52:30.882
of the this damage that has been done?

00:52:30.902 --> 00:52:37.782
Is that going to be enough for right now so that we can make long term changes again?

00:52:37.822 --> 00:52:41.102
Are we thinking long term or are we thinking short term?

00:52:41.942 --> 00:52:45.982
Yeah, that's that's that's really going to be the key.

00:52:46.262 --> 00:52:52.462
And like you said, that what we what the Democrats do in 2020,

00:52:52.462 --> 00:52:56.602
if they if they get both the House and the Senate,

00:52:56.902 --> 00:53:03.482
they have to set the T up so that because they're not going to get anything passed.

00:53:03.482 --> 00:53:08.602
I mean, they'll pass it, but, you know, the president is going to veto everything that they bring out.

00:53:09.022 --> 00:53:15.002
So the key is whether it's President Trump or somehow, some way,

00:53:15.182 --> 00:53:16.262
President Vance, right?

00:53:16.662 --> 00:53:23.202
And so then what they have, they have to do stuff in such a way where it's like

00:53:23.202 --> 00:53:27.482
they make the case that in 2028, okay, we need to have a Democratic president.

00:53:27.482 --> 00:53:32.522
All these ideas that we were pushing, we need to get a Democratic president there to make it happen.

00:53:33.182 --> 00:53:37.462
And like you said, if they if they go the route of just, you know,

00:53:37.622 --> 00:53:41.002
focusing their energy on just trying to get rid of President Trump or,

00:53:41.222 --> 00:53:44.422
you know, his whole cabinet or everything like that,

00:53:44.762 --> 00:53:48.282
then that might turn the American people off.

00:53:48.442 --> 00:53:52.922
And then you get a Republican president and still have a Democratic majority

00:53:52.922 --> 00:53:56.722
in the House and the Senate. You know, so it's like you said,

00:53:56.862 --> 00:53:58.842
it's going to have to be some gamesmanship in there.

00:53:59.222 --> 00:54:03.602
So let's let's let me let me go ahead and close it out because I appreciate

00:54:03.602 --> 00:54:05.022
the time that you've given me.

00:54:05.502 --> 00:54:09.042
Finish this sentence for me. I have hope because.

00:54:10.102 --> 00:54:11.562
I have hope because.

00:54:13.413 --> 00:54:17.773
Mother was born not being a full citizen in this country.

00:54:18.153 --> 00:54:26.053
I have hope because both of my grandmothers birthed all of their children before

00:54:26.053 --> 00:54:28.533
they became full citizens in this country.

00:54:29.053 --> 00:54:39.373
I have hope because I have been born with all the privileges that my foremothers,

00:54:40.013 --> 00:54:45.953
aunts and great aunts, dreamed of, and now I live freely with.

00:54:46.753 --> 00:54:51.813
Wow, that's deep. So, Doc, how can people get in touch with you?

00:54:51.993 --> 00:54:53.713
How can people reach out to you?

00:54:53.953 --> 00:54:59.193
Go ahead and tell people how they can contact you if they want some of that wisdom.

00:55:01.233 --> 00:55:06.733
Most people reach out to me on LinkedIn, and you're welcome to reach out to me on LinkedIn.

00:55:07.713 --> 00:55:13.673
I don't have all the other socials. I know that's an odd thing in this day and

00:55:13.673 --> 00:55:16.693
age, but LinkedIn is the best way to reach out to me.

00:55:18.533 --> 00:55:23.433
Well, all right. You know, other than enrolling at Georgia State, but look, Dr.

00:55:23.513 --> 00:55:27.353
I greatly appreciate you doing this.

00:55:27.553 --> 00:55:31.093
I'm glad that, you know, this is the time of year you're trying to close out

00:55:31.093 --> 00:55:33.753
everything. So I'm glad that we were able to get this in.

00:55:34.653 --> 00:55:38.093
And, you know, you know the rule because you've been on here multiple times

00:55:38.093 --> 00:55:42.333
now. So I'll just say I look forward to our next conversation.

00:55:43.173 --> 00:55:47.553
Thank you so much. All right, guys, and we're going to catch you all on the other side.

00:56:08.084 --> 00:56:12.204
Back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Les Leopold.

00:56:12.444 --> 00:56:17.104
After graduating from Oberlin College and Princeton University School of Public

00:56:17.104 --> 00:56:18.244
and International Affairs,

00:56:18.624 --> 00:56:22.484
Les Leopold co-founded and currently directs the Labor Institute,

00:56:22.824 --> 00:56:28.204
a nonprofit organization that designs research and educational programs on occupational

00:56:28.204 --> 00:56:31.984
safety and health, the environment and economics for unions,

00:56:32.344 --> 00:56:34.104
workers, and community organizations.

00:56:34.904 --> 00:56:42.304
In addition to Wall Street's war on workers, he is the author of Defiant German, Defiant Jew.

00:56:43.244 --> 00:56:48.624
Runaway Inequality, How to Make a Million Dollars an Hour, Why the Financial

00:56:48.624 --> 00:56:53.344
Elites Get Away with Siphoning Off America's Wealth, The Looting of America,

00:56:53.584 --> 00:56:57.464
How Wall Street's Game of Fantasy Finance Destroyed Our Jobs,

00:56:58.144 --> 00:57:03.784
pensions and prosperity, and what we can do about it, and The Man Who Hated

00:57:03.784 --> 00:57:08.924
Work and Loved Labor, The Life and Times of Tony Mazzucci.

00:57:09.244 --> 00:57:16.484
And now he's written another book, and that book is called The Billionaires

00:57:16.484 --> 00:57:19.584
Have Two Parties. We Need a Party of Our Own.

00:57:19.684 --> 00:57:24.664
And so we're going to discuss this new book as Les is making another appearance

00:57:24.664 --> 00:57:29.824
on this podcast. So ladies and gentlemen, It is my distinct honor and privilege

00:57:29.824 --> 00:57:34.364
to have again on this podcast, Les Leopold.

00:57:46.164 --> 00:57:49.784
Leopold. How are you doing, my friend? You doing good? Doing very well.

00:57:49.924 --> 00:57:52.084
Thank you very much. Well, glad to have you back.

00:57:52.604 --> 00:57:55.684
I see you're doing what you always do and writing some books.

00:57:56.164 --> 00:58:00.744
So you've written a new book called The Billionaires Have Two Parties.

00:58:00.824 --> 00:58:02.704
We Need a Party of Our Own.

00:58:02.904 --> 00:58:05.764
So we're going to get into a discussion of that.

00:58:06.004 --> 00:58:11.264
So normally how I like to do it is at least have you respond to a quote.

00:58:11.484 --> 00:58:13.044
So this is a quote I'm going to throw at you.

00:58:14.071 --> 00:58:18.791
Is nothing mysterious about the foundations of a healthy and strong democracy.

00:58:19.051 --> 00:58:26.071
The basic things expected by our people of their political and economic systems are simple.

00:58:26.431 --> 00:58:32.751
They are equality of opportunity for youth and for others, jobs for those who

00:58:32.751 --> 00:58:35.451
can work, security for those who need it,

00:58:35.871 --> 00:58:40.631
the ending of special privilege for the few, the preservation of civil liberties

00:58:40.631 --> 00:58:43.291
for all. How do you respond to that quote?

00:58:43.791 --> 00:58:50.111
Well, that's exactly what we need. That's what we deserve. Unfortunately, we don't have that.

00:58:50.651 --> 00:58:56.171
We have two political parties who created a system where they take care of the

00:58:56.171 --> 00:58:57.351
people who are better off.

00:58:57.891 --> 00:59:04.111
And they give lip service to jobs while people are struggling to maintain their

00:59:04.111 --> 00:59:10.611
employment. And I would point out that that is the number one problem in America is job insecurity.

00:59:11.391 --> 00:59:15.671
In this country, you cannot make it if you can't hold on to your job.

00:59:15.771 --> 00:59:19.731
And if you live someplace that doesn't have a gigantic, diverse economy,

00:59:19.731 --> 00:59:23.871
it's very, very hard on you if your factory goes down or your office closes.

00:59:24.691 --> 00:59:31.891
And that quote you just read is incredibly admirable because that's what we should aspire towards.

00:59:32.351 --> 00:59:36.751
And we need more than lip service from the two parties that care more about

00:59:36.751 --> 00:59:39.391
the wealthy than they do about the rest of us. Yeah.

00:59:40.091 --> 00:59:45.331
All right. Bruce Springsteen said, we're desperately in the need of an effective

00:59:45.331 --> 00:59:50.811
alternate party or for a Democratic Party to find someone who could speak to

00:59:50.811 --> 00:59:51.991
the majority of the nation.

00:59:52.291 --> 00:59:57.511
There is a problem with the language that they're using and the way they're trying to reach people.

00:59:57.831 --> 01:00:02.531
Why did you use this quote to set the tone for your book? The billionaires have

01:00:02.531 --> 01:00:04.531
two parties. We need a party of our own.

01:00:05.582 --> 01:00:12.882
It's funny, I was working on the book about the need for a new independent workers

01:00:12.882 --> 01:00:17.862
party when his quote came up, and I was actually surprised because he mostly

01:00:17.862 --> 01:00:20.142
runs around the country campaigning for the Democrats,

01:00:20.442 --> 01:00:26.402
and I think he's been incredibly frustrated by the inability of the Democratic

01:00:26.402 --> 01:00:30.582
Party or the Republican Party to actually speak to the needs and interests of working people.

01:00:30.762 --> 01:00:34.962
He's very good at doing that. I mean, he's probably one of the best performers

01:00:34.962 --> 01:00:39.022
in the country being able to really connect with a working class audience.

01:00:40.313 --> 01:00:43.773
Addition, I actually have had some connection with him over the years.

01:00:44.053 --> 01:00:49.533
I got involved in a plant closing struggle in his hometown, Freehold, New Jersey.

01:00:50.153 --> 01:00:54.933
And I went to visit him on behalf of the local union. And he agreed to support

01:00:54.933 --> 01:00:57.253
the campaign. And he bought an ad in the New York Times.

01:00:57.633 --> 01:01:01.553
And the president of that local, Stanley Fisher, has maintained a connection

01:01:01.553 --> 01:01:04.033
with Springsteen's office for years.

01:01:04.393 --> 01:01:08.473
We've actually asked him, this is a, we asked him to write a forward to the book.

01:01:09.173 --> 01:01:12.773
And he's interested. He's on tour right now.

01:01:12.913 --> 01:01:18.393
It may take a while, but since the book is produced on demand,

01:01:18.613 --> 01:01:23.993
as opposed to doing a large number of copies at once, we can add him at any point.

01:01:24.393 --> 01:01:31.253
But I think he's onto something. Look, the guy's always had a feel for where working people are.

01:01:31.673 --> 01:01:36.853
And he senses that there's just tremendous alienation, political alienation

01:01:36.853 --> 01:01:44.413
out there, and he knows it's dangerous to not have a political entity that working

01:01:44.413 --> 01:01:45.813
people can gravitate towards.

01:01:45.973 --> 01:01:48.933
I think it is very dangerous, and he senses what I sense.

01:01:49.673 --> 01:01:53.813
So I added him to the book at the beginning of the book because I was writing it already.

01:01:53.933 --> 01:01:58.473
I thought, okay, listen to the boss. He's got something to say about this. Yeah.

01:01:59.253 --> 01:02:02.993
Does the recent Supreme Court ruling, Louisiana v.

01:02:03.393 --> 01:02:08.353
Callais, strengthen your argument that there needs to be another viable political

01:02:08.353 --> 01:02:09.953
party in American politics?

01:02:11.513 --> 01:02:14.033
Well, I think it reflects the problem,

01:02:15.422 --> 01:02:21.122
problem is not worrying about districts that are purple or blue.

01:02:21.382 --> 01:02:30.602
It's worrying about the 130 congressional districts that the Republicans win by 25% or more.

01:02:31.902 --> 01:02:35.642
The Democratic Party in those districts are basically dead.

01:02:36.102 --> 01:02:40.682
So no matter how you redistrict in Louisiana or elsewhere, we're still going

01:02:40.682 --> 01:02:46.902
to have the problem of these incredibly red districts all across the country. So what do you do there?

01:02:48.462 --> 01:02:52.202
I don't think you can rebuild the Democratic Party in those areas.

01:02:52.382 --> 01:02:56.542
I think their brand, and we've done some survey polling on this,

01:02:56.942 --> 01:03:00.982
the brand is so tarnished that you can't rebuild it. So you have to build something new.

01:03:01.642 --> 01:03:08.042
And Dan Osborne, for example, in Nebraska is an example of someone building something new.

01:03:08.182 --> 01:03:12.022
He's running as a working class independent, independent of both parties.

01:03:12.242 --> 01:03:16.382
He stands a chance to win the senatorial race there. next fall.

01:03:16.582 --> 01:03:21.742
But I'm worried about how do people have a voice in these one-party congressional

01:03:21.742 --> 01:03:23.122
districts all across the country?

01:03:23.262 --> 01:03:29.262
And we think that building a new entity, a working-class entity on a very strong,

01:03:29.462 --> 01:03:34.902
progressive, economic populist platform would sell there. And it would change

01:03:34.902 --> 01:03:35.942
the dynamic of the country.

01:03:36.402 --> 01:03:41.882
Look, that beautiful quote you read at the beginning is going to be turned into

01:03:41.882 --> 01:03:47.202
fiction if we don't deal with this incredible polarization that goes on in the country, right?

01:03:47.522 --> 01:03:52.342
The big cities and the coasts are blue and the rest of the country is red.

01:03:52.522 --> 01:03:57.082
As soon as the polls close on election night, you know, these rural districts

01:03:57.082 --> 01:03:58.722
go red in about five seconds.

01:03:59.902 --> 01:04:04.662
Healthy. And a lot of these areas have working-class constituents.

01:04:05.422 --> 01:04:09.882
Former union people, union people, their families that were once progressive

01:04:09.882 --> 01:04:13.122
areas in the Great Plains states and all over.

01:04:13.382 --> 01:04:18.662
And we need to reach out to these people. They need to have a chance to express

01:04:18.662 --> 01:04:21.642
themselves politically, and they don't have a chance right now.

01:04:22.122 --> 01:04:26.962
Look, it's a tall, tall struggle. The mishmash about all this gerrymandering

01:04:26.962 --> 01:04:28.762
is only going to make it worse.

01:04:29.102 --> 01:04:32.942
But we have to build something, just like Springsteen said, we've got to be

01:04:32.942 --> 01:04:37.742
able to speak to these folks and have these folks speak for themselves.

01:04:38.002 --> 01:04:42.702
They need a political entity of and by and for themselves where they can actually

01:04:42.702 --> 01:04:47.442
have a role in our political system.

01:04:47.762 --> 01:04:53.182
Right now, they're dropping out or they're throwing a vote for MAGA or something,

01:04:53.222 --> 01:04:56.122
but really most of them are just kind of dropping out. They've given up hope.

01:04:56.442 --> 01:05:03.602
They see that most of the politicians in Congress are rich people who don't

01:05:03.602 --> 01:05:05.322
reflect their point of view.

01:05:05.522 --> 01:05:09.662
And by the way, our surveys show that these people are not Neanderthals,

01:05:09.802 --> 01:05:16.022
even on social issues, that there's been a tremendous liberal increase amongst

01:05:16.022 --> 01:05:19.962
white working class people all over the country on issues like gay marriage,

01:05:19.962 --> 01:05:21.202
on issues like immigration.

01:05:21.402 --> 01:05:27.462
There's been a really liberal trend, but that's not their main issue, right?

01:05:27.582 --> 01:05:29.982
Their main issue is how do you survive economically?

01:05:30.802 --> 01:05:34.602
And just the image that comes to mind, it just happened in Nebraska.

01:05:35.382 --> 01:05:39.622
Tyson Foods shut down a facility in I believe it's called Lexington, Nebraska.

01:05:40.282 --> 01:05:47.382
Town of 10,000 people. 3,000 jobs are going to disappear in a town of 10,000 people.

01:05:48.478 --> 01:05:53.198
They go? What do they do? I mean, that's absolute devastation.

01:05:53.298 --> 01:05:59.138
And I believe, as your opening quote said, and working people believe this,

01:05:59.238 --> 01:06:03.018
that everyone who's able to work should have a right to a job at a livable wage.

01:06:03.218 --> 01:06:07.658
And if the private sector can't provide it, then the public sector needs to provide it.

01:06:07.798 --> 01:06:11.698
You can't have people, able-bodied people, without employment.

01:06:11.898 --> 01:06:13.578
That just won't work in our society.

01:06:14.258 --> 01:06:21.258
And we have found that working people very much want some modicum of job security.

01:06:21.358 --> 01:06:23.658
They want to work, but they can't work.

01:06:24.778 --> 01:06:30.018
Where are they going to find a job in Lexington after 3,000 jobs go down in a town of 10,000?

01:06:30.398 --> 01:06:36.498
Anyway, there's a frustration, an anger, a disappointment that's out there.

01:06:36.598 --> 01:06:41.798
We need to have a space where this can be discussed. And I think a new political

01:06:41.798 --> 01:06:43.118
entity is the place to do it.

01:06:44.498 --> 01:06:50.558
Well, you asked this question in the book. So besides what you just said about

01:06:50.558 --> 01:06:53.478
job security, what do working people want? Yeah.

01:06:54.861 --> 01:06:55.361
Well, it's interesting.

01:06:58.701 --> 01:07:04.401
In the survey we did of 3,000 voters in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin,

01:07:04.421 --> 01:07:08.301
and Michigan, the old Rust Belt, basically.

01:07:08.581 --> 01:07:11.181
Although people who live there don't want me to call it the Rust Belt.

01:07:11.301 --> 01:07:13.941
They get PO'd at me when I do that.

01:07:14.101 --> 01:07:16.681
But it's hard to keep saying those names again and again.

01:07:17.261 --> 01:07:22.241
The former Blue Wall states or whatever. So we did 3,000 voters.

01:07:23.041 --> 01:07:27.221
And there was some space at the end of the survey. And I threw in this question.

01:07:27.581 --> 01:07:34.421
I said, would you support a new independent political entity called the Independent

01:07:34.421 --> 01:07:36.501
Workers Political Association,

01:07:36.921 --> 01:07:40.741
independent of the two political parties that would run independent candidates

01:07:40.741 --> 01:07:45.521
on just four issues? And here were the four issues.

01:07:45.981 --> 01:07:50.781
One was the right to a job, a livable wage, if the private sector can't provide

01:07:50.781 --> 01:07:53.541
it, the public sector shall. a very radical proposal.

01:07:53.961 --> 01:07:59.341
Number two, any corporation, large corporation that gets government money cannot

01:07:59.341 --> 01:08:01.261
conduct compulsory layoffs.

01:08:01.521 --> 01:08:05.001
All layoffs will have to be voluntary based on financial packages,

01:08:05.141 --> 01:08:08.881
the way they do it for white collar employees and executives.

01:08:09.221 --> 01:08:14.281
That was the second one. The third was raise the minimum wage to a livable wage.

01:08:14.421 --> 01:08:17.801
And the fourth plank was stop price gouging at pharmaceutical companies and

01:08:17.801 --> 01:08:19.121
food companies. That was it.

01:08:19.861 --> 01:08:26.021
So I took bets with my colleagues. What percent of people would actually support this?

01:08:26.301 --> 01:08:33.941
I thought it would be about 20%. It came back at 57%. Eric, think about that.

01:08:34.521 --> 01:08:39.061
And this is an entity that they never heard of that doesn't even exist, right?

01:08:39.521 --> 01:08:47.941
57%. And if you looked at it by age, those 30 and under supported it 70%.

01:08:49.397 --> 01:08:55.957
So, people are ready for a very strong, forward-looking, progressive economic

01:08:55.957 --> 01:08:59.897
platform that protects their jobs, their livelihoods.

01:09:00.297 --> 01:09:07.477
Affordability is not enough. It has to be affordability plus real job security

01:09:07.477 --> 01:09:11.537
or alternative jobs if a plant goes under.

01:09:12.457 --> 01:09:16.017
So people are ready for that. And we surveyed that in a variety of different ways.

01:09:16.237 --> 01:09:21.297
And these, I mean, I was stunned that people gravitated toward this very new

01:09:21.297 --> 01:09:26.937
entity with a radical, basically a radical progressive populist proposal. People are ready.

01:09:27.977 --> 01:09:30.897
And I say this to my progressive friends.

01:09:32.177 --> 01:09:36.477
These people out there are more progressive than we are.

01:09:36.997 --> 01:09:40.397
You know, we're still fumbling around, you know, around the edges and don't

01:09:40.397 --> 01:09:43.997
want to sound like, you know, trying to be influential with the Democrats and

01:09:43.997 --> 01:09:45.397
the mainstream, et cetera, et cetera.

01:09:45.457 --> 01:09:49.137
We're trying to curb our sales. They're saying, no, no, no, no.

01:09:49.557 --> 01:09:55.517
We really need a strong, forward-looking, progressive platform and a new political

01:09:55.517 --> 01:09:57.957
entity. Blew my mind. That's why I wrote the book.

01:09:58.197 --> 01:10:05.137
I said, this story has got to get out. So what's the challenge of making this

01:10:05.137 --> 01:10:08.937
fictitious party a reality?

01:10:09.557 --> 01:10:15.357
That is the most important and I think provocative question, actually.

01:10:15.777 --> 01:10:20.677
It's going to be difficult. And I have to play a different role than what it's

01:10:20.677 --> 01:10:21.877
going to need to get it off the ground.

01:10:21.977 --> 01:10:27.377
It needs an anchor tenant. and an anchor tenant to me means a large influential

01:10:27.377 --> 01:10:32.637
union like the United Dollar Workers or the Teamsters or communication workers

01:10:32.637 --> 01:10:36.537
or a bunch of them coming together. We're a long way from that.

01:10:36.937 --> 01:10:42.177
Right now, they are so overwhelmed by collective bargaining issues and organizing,

01:10:42.337 --> 01:10:47.077
et cetera, that they can't imagine getting involved in anything other than, you know.

01:10:48.461 --> 01:10:52.461
The Democratic Party towards a labor direction. But that's what we're going to need.

01:10:52.581 --> 01:10:59.461
In the meantime, however, groups like ours can do education, national education.

01:10:59.781 --> 01:11:05.461
And the model that I'm looking at is something that was set up in 1947 by A.

01:11:05.581 --> 01:11:11.381
Philip Randolph and Walter Ruther from the United Auto Workers and A.

01:11:11.501 --> 01:11:13.901
Philip Randolph from Sleepy Car Porters Union.

01:11:14.341 --> 01:11:18.761
And they were very prominent and popular figures. They held a meeting in New

01:11:18.761 --> 01:11:21.541
York, and they brought 100 people together.

01:11:21.721 --> 01:11:24.201
A third were labor leaders, a third were civil rights leaders,

01:11:24.281 --> 01:11:28.381
and the third were kind of these alternative parties like the Minnesota Farm, Labor, et cetera.

01:11:28.661 --> 01:11:33.801
And they set up a new entity called the National Education Campaign for Independent Politics.

01:11:34.461 --> 01:11:40.041
And they gave it the equivalent of about $700,000 to run, in today's money,

01:11:40.121 --> 01:11:43.581
to run conferences, write booklets, pamphlets, books, et cetera.

01:11:43.841 --> 01:11:47.561
And it existed for about two strong years.

01:11:47.641 --> 01:11:54.821
And then Cold War got very intense and the unions started having problems that

01:11:54.821 --> 01:11:58.561
felt that they just didn't have the space for it, but it was a great idea.

01:11:58.741 --> 01:12:02.121
And that's something I think a group like ours can propagate.

01:12:02.141 --> 01:12:05.061
And this book is kind of the first step.

01:12:05.261 --> 01:12:12.381
So I'm hoping in the next month or so to inaugurate a national Workers' Education

01:12:12.381 --> 01:12:13.761
Committee for Independent Politics,

01:12:13.761 --> 01:12:19.461
and to begin looking for places to do workshops and talks like this,

01:12:19.661 --> 01:12:23.541
to promote not just the book, but to promote the campaign.

01:12:23.701 --> 01:12:27.141
And by the way, all the money that we get in royalties, should there be any,

01:12:27.341 --> 01:12:28.461
will go into the campaign.

01:12:28.641 --> 01:12:33.721
So I'm going to work on the educational front and hopefully light a fire under

01:12:33.721 --> 01:12:35.301
some of these labor unions and

01:12:35.301 --> 01:12:38.461
community organizations that have large memberships They say, hey, look,

01:12:38.801 --> 01:12:40.901
why don't you try something in

01:12:40.901 --> 01:12:45.081
these places where the Democratic Party has given up, like West Virginia?

01:12:47.632 --> 01:12:50.872
Here, if you allow me. West Virginia used to be a democratic state.

01:12:51.192 --> 01:12:55.852
I looked at this one little county that had lost the most coal jobs of any county

01:12:55.852 --> 01:12:58.152
in the country, Mingo County, West Virginia.

01:12:58.412 --> 01:13:05.612
It gave Bill Clinton 70% of its vote, 70%. And so did West Virginia,

01:13:05.672 --> 01:13:08.472
a large majority to Clinton.

01:13:09.372 --> 01:13:13.432
Year by year by year, as those coal jobs disappeared, this little county of

01:13:13.432 --> 01:13:16.932
30,000 people lost 3,000 cold jobs out of 3,300.

01:13:17.412 --> 01:13:20.252
The Democratic vote went down, down, down, down, down.

01:13:21.552 --> 01:13:27.092
Barack Obama got 44%. Joe Biden got 13%.

01:13:27.092 --> 01:13:32.052
Kamala Harris got 12%. I mean, and in that state as a whole,

01:13:32.352 --> 01:13:39.192
out of the 130 some state offices, the Democrats have 16.

01:13:39.512 --> 01:13:42.572
And in 40 of those areas, they don't run a candidate at all.

01:13:43.472 --> 01:13:46.512
So places like West Virginia are wide open.

01:13:46.852 --> 01:13:50.072
It's a working class state. It's not a state of rich people.

01:13:50.292 --> 01:13:53.812
It's open for something new, but I can't create something new.

01:13:53.952 --> 01:13:58.852
I can't really answer your question, but I can create the educational frameworks

01:13:58.852 --> 01:14:03.652
and discussions that allow, I think, for people to consider that option.

01:14:04.152 --> 01:14:08.192
It's not going to happen overnight. Sometimes things do happen overnight,

01:14:08.272 --> 01:14:13.832
but I think it's going to take some anchor tenants, people that have large constituencies,

01:14:14.012 --> 01:14:17.552
as opposed to little nonprofits like ours. Yeah.

01:14:18.572 --> 01:14:26.372
90 years ago, FDR said we know now that government by organized money is just

01:14:26.372 --> 01:14:29.072
as dangerous as government by organized mob.

01:14:29.392 --> 01:14:34.412
If that's the case, then why are we still dealing with government by organized money today?

01:14:35.732 --> 01:14:41.492
Well, that is quite a story to be told there.

01:14:41.672 --> 01:14:46.392
The short answer is organized money has bought both parties.

01:14:46.752 --> 01:14:51.892
The most important primary that takes place in each party is called the money

01:14:51.892 --> 01:14:56.772
primary, where the wealthy donors basically decide which candidates are going

01:14:56.772 --> 01:14:57.812
to throw their money behind.

01:14:58.152 --> 01:15:04.152
And I mean, I was stunned that Kamala Harris went out of her way to go to Wall

01:15:04.152 --> 01:15:08.032
Street to meet with, you know, 40 rich executives during her campaign.

01:15:08.172 --> 01:15:11.392
At the beginning of her campaign, you would think she'd want to go to kind of,

01:15:11.672 --> 01:15:15.392
you know, working-class Michigan or something to start her campaign. Why go to Wall Street?

01:15:15.692 --> 01:15:22.472
Because they have, because of Citizens United, they can give basically unlimited amounts of money.

01:15:22.812 --> 01:15:27.312
So we've let the government, the political offices, in a sense,

01:15:27.412 --> 01:15:30.612
go to the highest bidder. Not always, but most of the time.

01:15:31.012 --> 01:15:38.512
I think it's something like 3% of Congress people come from working-class backgrounds,

01:15:38.512 --> 01:15:42.112
and the rest are well off.

01:15:42.592 --> 01:15:45.812
So we've let it get out of control. Roosevelt was right.

01:15:46.012 --> 01:15:51.832
Roosevelt also said virtually what you said in your opening quote about people

01:15:51.832 --> 01:15:53.812
free from hunger, free from what?

01:15:54.932 --> 01:15:59.632
People basically had the right to a job. And he went out of his way to create them.

01:16:00.972 --> 01:16:02.632
You can see the change.

01:16:04.632 --> 01:16:09.412
Actually right around the Clinton administration, the era of big government is over.

01:16:10.532 --> 01:16:15.292
That marked, they made a conscious decision. And I know some of these people,

01:16:15.432 --> 01:16:19.112
they made a conscious decision that they were going to compete for the wealthy.

01:16:19.272 --> 01:16:21.432
They weren't going to just leave the wealthy in the Republican party.

01:16:21.832 --> 01:16:26.632
And the whole deregulation of finance was a way to appeal and appease the.

01:16:27.729 --> 01:16:33.929
On Wall Street. And what they gave up on was the actual creation of jobs when people were in need.

01:16:34.189 --> 01:16:40.229
You know, even Jimmy Carter in 1978, and this was after the whole, you know,

01:16:40.969 --> 01:16:44.589
fiscal crisis in New York City, and there was a recession going on,

01:16:44.829 --> 01:16:51.209
he created a supported legislation that created 780,000 public sector jobs.

01:16:52.305 --> 01:16:55.745
780,000. Has anybody done anything like that?

01:16:55.965 --> 01:16:59.505
I mean, shouldn't we have done something like that in Appalachia when all those

01:16:59.505 --> 01:17:01.005
coal jobs were disappearing?

01:17:01.225 --> 01:17:03.865
How can we let those people just hang out there with nothing?

01:17:03.985 --> 01:17:07.965
You don't have replaced those coal jobs in that little county, Mingo County.

01:17:08.205 --> 01:17:11.585
This is like, it makes you want to cry or scream.

01:17:12.545 --> 01:17:19.445
Opioids. Two drug stores set up opioid, basically opioid prescription mills.

01:17:19.705 --> 01:17:24.085
And they put out more prescriptions than the largest drugstores in any of the

01:17:24.085 --> 01:17:25.245
big cities across the country.

01:17:25.365 --> 01:17:30.105
There were cars lined up from a five-state area to pick up their opioid prescriptions.

01:17:30.305 --> 01:17:32.025
That was the replacement for cold jobs.

01:17:32.365 --> 01:17:36.225
You imagine how people feel about politics when they see that's what's going

01:17:36.225 --> 01:17:42.345
on around them, that they become basically a drugstore for opioids.

01:17:42.745 --> 01:17:44.585
So yeah, there's a...

01:17:45.525 --> 01:17:51.705
There's a big vacuum to be filled. And right now we're not challenging the two

01:17:51.705 --> 01:17:54.605
billionaire parties and they're going to get to get, the billionaires are going

01:17:54.605 --> 01:17:56.285
to get away with controlling both of them.

01:17:56.805 --> 01:18:02.165
So in the book, you said that Obama was no FDR kind of expound on that.

01:18:03.285 --> 01:18:07.865
It's really interesting. When Obama came into office, I was a big fan of his.

01:18:08.265 --> 01:18:11.645
I thought, geez, I wonder if I could become one of his speechwriters or something.

01:18:11.765 --> 01:18:13.765
You know, I was arrogant at the time, I guess.

01:18:14.585 --> 01:18:21.165
But what happened was he faced the same crisis in a way that FDR faced.

01:18:22.325 --> 01:18:26.345
And he knew that he had the power to tame Wall Street.

01:18:26.745 --> 01:18:30.825
But his advisors, he happened to take in a lot of Wall Street-oriented advisors.

01:18:30.885 --> 01:18:34.645
And they said, no, no, you can't do that. You can't put any of these guys in jail.

01:18:34.925 --> 01:18:37.345
You have to support them.

01:18:38.005 --> 01:18:44.185
And he ended up supporting the revitalization of Wall Street at the expense of Main Street.

01:18:45.392 --> 01:18:49.312
Way that I think even he, I'm sure, does not feel great about.

01:18:49.612 --> 01:18:55.612
And then he fell into the trap of austerity where he was starting to negotiate

01:18:55.612 --> 01:19:00.632
with the Republicans to cut back the federal deficit again at the expense of Main Street.

01:19:00.912 --> 01:19:06.212
And then he made the final mistake, I believe, by supporting another free trade

01:19:06.212 --> 01:19:10.432
agreement, the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement, and working people hate

01:19:10.432 --> 01:19:11.392
these trade agreements.

01:19:12.072 --> 01:19:17.112
So he kind of, he had all the potential, I think, to be the next FDR.

01:19:17.432 --> 01:19:21.572
He had the charisma. He had the, he had the smarts for sure.

01:19:22.212 --> 01:19:27.632
And, and he had great instincts, but he, the only thing that he,

01:19:27.872 --> 01:19:33.492
you know, he, he really tried hard on the, you know, with the Obamacare and

01:19:33.492 --> 01:19:35.332
I'm sure he wanted to do more than that.

01:19:35.452 --> 01:19:40.332
But when it came to taking on, you know, the big boys, he kind of blinked.

01:19:40.672 --> 01:19:43.112
And working people turned on

01:19:43.112 --> 01:19:47.612
him, which was a shame, because we see what's happened in his aftermath.

01:19:48.572 --> 01:19:50.192
Yeah. So...

01:19:51.685 --> 01:19:55.065
Kind of leads into this perception, right?

01:19:55.165 --> 01:19:59.005
So you make the claim that working people, and you stated it earlier,

01:19:59.405 --> 01:20:03.305
are far less racist and sexist than they were in 1968.

01:20:03.965 --> 01:20:12.105
Now, as a Black man that grew up in a Union city in Chicago and has spent most

01:20:12.105 --> 01:20:14.385
of his adult life in the South,

01:20:14.705 --> 01:20:18.705
my lens would think that that's kind of a low bar because it's like,

01:20:18.865 --> 01:20:22.725
I've dealt with people in Mississippi and Georgia and I'm like,

01:20:23.285 --> 01:20:25.365
yeah, they're not as bad as they were when Dr.

01:20:25.425 --> 01:20:29.585
King was walking around, but they still got a long way to go.

01:20:30.105 --> 01:20:35.825
Kind of talk to me about why that's important for not just Democrats,

01:20:36.005 --> 01:20:37.785
but any politician to pick up on.

01:20:38.405 --> 01:20:41.245
Well, I see what you see.

01:20:41.865 --> 01:20:46.245
I'm not a black man, But I certainly understand that, you know,

01:20:46.325 --> 01:20:49.765
we're not living in nirvana when it comes to race relations at all.

01:20:50.605 --> 01:20:55.325
But the one thing, the one tragedy we're facing is slowing down.

01:20:56.942 --> 01:21:04.602
To get over that hump, to raise the bar from the low bar that you just described, are trade unions.

01:21:04.862 --> 01:21:10.442
It's the one place where solidarity is key.

01:21:10.682 --> 01:21:13.882
You can't hold your union together if you don't have solidarity,

01:21:13.882 --> 01:21:18.002
and you cannot allow discrimination of any kind. You just can't.

01:21:18.762 --> 01:21:22.882
Solidarity does not mean bringing together everybody that agrees with each other.

01:21:23.002 --> 01:21:25.542
It's bringing together people that don't agree with each other.

01:21:25.822 --> 01:21:30.822
And what happens is when trade unions are functioning properly,

01:21:31.042 --> 01:21:35.422
especially in this kind of environment, they have an anti-discrimination clause

01:21:35.422 --> 01:21:36.742
that they put in every contract.

01:21:37.002 --> 01:21:40.682
And people actually have to work together.

01:21:41.022 --> 01:21:46.582
My wife teaches, there's this interesting program, a college program in New

01:21:46.582 --> 01:21:49.282
York with IBEW electrical workers.

01:21:49.582 --> 01:21:52.302
The apprentices have 900 of them a

01:21:52.302 --> 01:21:55.162
year have to go through they have to get a two-year college degree to

01:21:55.162 --> 01:21:58.362
become a journeyman so this program 30

01:21:58.362 --> 01:22:01.162
years ago was lily white you know

01:22:01.162 --> 01:22:04.322
it was building trades and these are good jobs electrical

01:22:04.322 --> 01:22:12.062
you know big skyscraper type electrical work well her classes now are 30 40

01:22:12.062 --> 01:22:18.842
percent people of color gay lesbian trans all kinds of people now are in that

01:22:18.842 --> 01:22:21.282
are flocking into that union. That changes.

01:22:21.602 --> 01:22:26.402
It doesn't, you know, racism and sexism has not gone away, but it changes the

01:22:26.402 --> 01:22:31.582
power dynamics because now you've got the union non-discriminatory clause that's.

01:22:32.708 --> 01:22:35.428
Favor. You know, if you get pushed around as a woman in these jobs,

01:22:35.608 --> 01:22:38.548
the person pushing you around could lose their job.

01:22:38.908 --> 01:22:42.628
The union might just throw them out because they can't tolerate this anymore.

01:22:43.028 --> 01:22:47.668
So one of the keys to raising that bar, I think, is the expansion of labor unions.

01:22:47.988 --> 01:22:51.288
Right now, that's very difficult to do. And it's not going to happen.

01:22:51.848 --> 01:22:54.828
The two parties have to be pressed.

01:22:55.048 --> 01:22:58.888
Another reason to have an independent political formation is to try to push

01:22:58.888 --> 01:23:03.928
for a change in the labor law, and also encourage people to get involved in

01:23:03.928 --> 01:23:08.228
unionization, which I think moves us closer to,

01:23:08.648 --> 01:23:11.088
a step closer to the promised land.

01:23:11.268 --> 01:23:16.508
And I'm convinced that people working side by side, once you,

01:23:16.648 --> 01:23:20.808
the whole problem, I think, with racism and sexism is when you really don't

01:23:20.808 --> 01:23:26.088
know, especially racism, when you don't know the other, the person is foreign to you.

01:23:26.168 --> 01:23:29.848
So you have all these images in your head about what they are like.

01:23:30.188 --> 01:23:33.788
You have to work next to somebody on a skyscraper.

01:23:33.968 --> 01:23:39.448
You know in a hurry, the color of the skin is the last thing that you're worried about.

01:23:39.748 --> 01:23:42.448
There's a whole bunch of other things that you have to work together on.

01:23:42.848 --> 01:23:47.808
So I don't know. This is a period where I guess I should be pessimistic.

01:23:47.948 --> 01:23:52.208
But actually, I think there are opportunities, really good ones.

01:23:52.348 --> 01:23:56.388
But we have to break out of the box. We've got to break out of the two-party.

01:23:57.248 --> 01:24:00.368
Doom loop, as Dan Osborne calls it in Nebraska.

01:24:00.628 --> 01:24:04.988
And we have to be able to think outside the box, try some new things, see what catches on.

01:24:05.108 --> 01:24:10.068
But most important, give working people a chance to say what it is they want

01:24:10.068 --> 01:24:11.588
and how they want to get it.

01:24:11.688 --> 01:24:16.808
You know, we've done these workshops all over the country. The last iteration was called...

01:24:18.323 --> 01:24:21.943
Inequality or reversing runaway inequality. And at the end of these workshops,

01:24:22.143 --> 01:24:24.783
it's all about financialization and all this kind of stuff.

01:24:24.883 --> 01:24:28.363
And it's taught by workers themselves using a non-lecture method.

01:24:28.683 --> 01:24:32.563
One of the activities at the end is each group, each small group of four or

01:24:32.563 --> 01:24:37.183
five people, we give them a big sheet of paper and we say, draw your community

01:24:37.183 --> 01:24:39.263
or your world without runaway inequality.

01:24:39.863 --> 01:24:44.383
And you should see the pictures that they come up with. I mean, it's really good stuff.

01:24:44.623 --> 01:24:51.303
It's environmentally sound, pro-education, pro-employment, non-discriminatory,

01:24:51.463 --> 01:24:54.723
really good stuff. But nobody ever asked them.

01:24:55.123 --> 01:25:00.063
And I'm determined to ask the question. I'm determined to have this book help

01:25:00.063 --> 01:25:03.923
open up a discussion that it seems people are kind of fearful of having.

01:25:04.803 --> 01:25:10.523
Yeah. You know, because when listening to you, two things always come to mind.

01:25:10.523 --> 01:25:17.043
I remember, I think it was NBC did a piece when Tom Brokaw was there about a

01:25:17.043 --> 01:25:23.583
town that's outside of Austin, where it was like, you know, you had this very diverse community.

01:25:24.203 --> 01:25:27.843
And, you know, they were talking about like the captain of the football team

01:25:27.843 --> 01:25:32.903
was, was, was, was black and homecoming queen was Asian.

01:25:33.203 --> 01:25:37.243
And they had like this town picnic that had zero crime, but all of them were

01:25:37.243 --> 01:25:40.863
working and all of them were working in, in high tech jobs. Right.

01:25:41.203 --> 01:25:48.803
And they were, you know, so they, they had a higher median income than even the city of Austin.

01:25:49.583 --> 01:25:53.423
But they just all flocked to this one particular suburb and,

01:25:53.483 --> 01:25:56.523
and everything was pretty cool. And then I thought about.

01:25:57.689 --> 01:26:02.609
Know, the story about the coal miners in Huntsville and how the white coal miners

01:26:02.609 --> 01:26:06.849
stood up for the black coal miners who were getting underpaid.

01:26:07.209 --> 01:26:10.409
Once they realized they were being underpaid, and they just kind of said,

01:26:10.529 --> 01:26:14.129
well, we're all going to quit if you don't pay them.

01:26:14.209 --> 01:26:17.849
And that kind of got those coal miners organized up there.

01:26:18.049 --> 01:26:24.389
So there are instances in history that talk about what you were able to pull

01:26:24.389 --> 01:26:27.189
out of the surveys, you know, recently.

01:26:27.889 --> 01:26:32.689
And it, you know, it just seems like to me, and one of the things I've been

01:26:32.689 --> 01:26:36.249
stressing on a podcast is what we call real American leadership, right?

01:26:36.569 --> 01:26:42.809
And that really sounds like, you know, the spirit of what I'm trying to get

01:26:42.809 --> 01:26:50.889
across and trying to get my listeners and other people to fall into and understand that.

01:26:52.297 --> 01:26:56.217
We can do this together, but if we keep trying to stay in these silos,

01:26:56.217 --> 01:26:58.397
we're all going to suffer.

01:26:58.897 --> 01:27:03.657
And, you know, so I was real excited reading your book about that.

01:27:03.957 --> 01:27:05.797
Really, it was really, really optimistic.

01:27:06.237 --> 01:27:11.397
A couple more questions. Why is it hard to persuade Democratic Party leaders

01:27:11.397 --> 01:27:13.897
that progressive populism is very popular?

01:27:14.517 --> 01:27:18.297
Well, I think you kind of hinted at that before.

01:27:18.897 --> 01:27:26.537
They really don't believe in progressive populism. If you're a wealthy person or you want to become,

01:27:26.697 --> 01:27:30.397
you're a politician and you really want to become wealthier,

01:27:30.397 --> 01:27:37.877
you've absorbed what I call the capital-centered view of the world,

01:27:37.877 --> 01:27:44.817
that becoming a billionaire is a good thing because those people invest in America

01:27:44.817 --> 01:27:48.137
and that leads to more jobs and that trickles down to everybody else.

01:27:48.137 --> 01:27:53.737
They won't use the word trickle down, but they really, they adopted the capital

01:27:53.737 --> 01:28:00.797
centric view of the world and they've rejected the people centric view,

01:28:00.937 --> 01:28:04.677
which is what you've been talking about. The people centric view is say, look, you got it.

01:28:04.877 --> 01:28:09.637
What comes first is providing people with jobs, livelihood, education, health care.

01:28:10.097 --> 01:28:12.297
That's what life is about.

01:28:13.097 --> 01:28:16.057
And you don't have to worry about capital centric.

01:28:16.197 --> 01:28:18.957
They'll take care of themselves. But the people in office, the reason they're

01:28:18.957 --> 01:28:24.697
rejecting this people-first model, the progressive populist model,

01:28:24.857 --> 01:28:28.037
they don't really believe in it. They believe in...

01:28:29.270 --> 01:28:33.550
If you look at the lobbyists, the consultants, the pollsters,

01:28:33.850 --> 01:28:42.190
and the politicians, and the donors, they kind of agree on the way things run is pretty good.

01:28:42.830 --> 01:28:45.870
Yeah, it's got some problems here and there, but basically it's sound.

01:28:46.170 --> 01:28:52.490
And they just have no patience for understanding this incredible job dislocation

01:28:52.490 --> 01:28:57.210
that takes place. Millions upon millions of people have to lose their livelihoods.

01:28:57.290 --> 01:28:59.630
They're scrambling to find the next job.

01:28:59.890 --> 01:29:03.270
They have no, you know, let them become gig workers. Let them,

01:29:03.330 --> 01:29:04.710
you know, drive for Uber.

01:29:05.010 --> 01:29:12.630
It's not like they consciously put them down. It's just that they're enamored by the world of wealth.

01:29:13.190 --> 01:29:17.690
You know, it's really, it's really, you know, it's the ultimate aphrodisiac.

01:29:17.850 --> 01:29:20.410
Wow, I could become wealthy. I could become powerful.

01:29:20.670 --> 01:29:23.870
Why not? and that becomes the center of your life.

01:29:24.750 --> 01:29:28.550
Yeah. What do you want readers of the book to take away from it?

01:29:29.470 --> 01:29:34.170
Hope. Hope. I'd like them to walk away saying, you know what?

01:29:34.550 --> 01:29:38.330
We can do something different. We can try to do something different.

01:29:38.730 --> 01:29:42.310
It's not that we don't have to ultimately despair and give up.

01:29:42.910 --> 01:29:46.470
My hope is that working people can develop their own political voice,

01:29:46.810 --> 01:29:48.310
their own political entity.

01:29:48.650 --> 01:29:54.310
And I would really like to reach those who are most alienated from politics right now.

01:29:55.718 --> 01:30:01.898
And say, hey, there's another way. So, yeah, if I can make people feel like

01:30:01.898 --> 01:30:05.018
there are possibilities, I will have done my job.

01:30:05.558 --> 01:30:09.718
Well, and that's a good way to end an interview because I've been asking people

01:30:09.718 --> 01:30:15.238
this year to finish the sentence, I have hope because.

01:30:15.238 --> 01:30:19.178
But I think you just you just spelled it out that it's like,

01:30:19.618 --> 01:30:25.818
you know, just having hope and that people will believe that there is something else out there.

01:30:25.978 --> 01:30:32.458
And your book is one example of another way that we can we can reach some,

01:30:32.578 --> 01:30:39.918
I guess, some some political hope and some political stability,

01:30:40.278 --> 01:30:41.038
leadership, whatever.

01:30:41.038 --> 01:30:43.718
I, you know, I get it.

01:30:44.018 --> 01:30:50.918
I just, you know, I want to see that world happen. I want to see that America happen.

01:30:52.158 --> 01:30:56.198
And as long as you're out there, Les, and your folks at the Labor Institute

01:30:56.198 --> 01:30:59.218
doing the work, then we got a good shot at it.

01:30:59.298 --> 01:31:03.358
So thank you, man, for writing a book and thank you for coming on.

01:31:03.518 --> 01:31:07.318
How can people get this book and how can people reach out to you all?

01:31:08.547 --> 01:31:14.247
So you can get the books, obviously, you can get it on Amazon or any of the online sellers.

01:31:14.867 --> 01:31:17.887
You can order it at any bookstore anywhere right now.

01:31:18.187 --> 01:31:20.827
It may not be sitting out there for you, but just say that you want,

01:31:20.887 --> 01:31:23.047
you know, billionaires have two parties.

01:31:23.267 --> 01:31:27.367
That's all you have to remember, or party of our own, and they'll find it for you.

01:31:28.007 --> 01:31:32.547
I hate to say this, but Amazon is actually probably the best way to help me promote the book.

01:31:32.607 --> 01:31:36.327
That turns to be the center of the universe right now for book promotion.

01:31:36.327 --> 01:31:42.187
And then, look, once you get it and read it, you can write a little review on

01:31:42.187 --> 01:31:44.667
Amazon or Goodreads or anyplace else.

01:31:44.887 --> 01:31:47.427
It doesn't have to be long. And if it's critical, that's okay, too.

01:31:47.727 --> 01:31:52.207
I'm not afraid of criticism. If you want to reach, I write a sub stack every

01:31:52.207 --> 01:31:55.427
week, Leslie Uphold at sub stack. You can get me there.

01:31:55.667 --> 01:31:58.527
And you can get me at Leslie Uphold at AOL.com.

01:31:58.807 --> 01:32:05.387
I answer all my emails sooner or later. and I'm open to comments and criticism

01:32:05.387 --> 01:32:08.967
because that's what this whole dialogue is about.

01:32:09.827 --> 01:32:14.707
And my hope also is extended by programs like Eric's. I mean,

01:32:14.807 --> 01:32:16.807
this is a really positive endeavor.

01:32:17.507 --> 01:32:20.107
Unfortunately, I have to book it a year in advance, but that's,

01:32:20.527 --> 01:32:24.627
I would raise my hand to get on for next year.

01:32:25.047 --> 01:32:29.167
Anyway, I really appreciate the opportunity. And if people listening can help

01:32:29.167 --> 01:32:32.267
support the book and move it forward, like I said, All the money goes back into

01:32:32.267 --> 01:32:35.387
the education campaign, hopefully a virtuous cycle.

01:32:36.247 --> 01:32:41.207
Well, you have taken advantage of the rules, so you know how it goes.

01:32:41.387 --> 01:32:46.027
Anytime you write something or you've got something to say, you know how to

01:32:46.027 --> 01:32:50.987
reach out to me and make sure that I can get you on. And I enjoy talking to you.

01:32:51.167 --> 01:32:56.087
And like I said before, I enjoy the commitment to the work that you're doing.

01:32:57.547 --> 01:33:00.887
We got to get, we got to get something better than where we're at.

01:33:01.047 --> 01:33:08.067
And I think if, if nothing else, I think this, this current political climate

01:33:08.067 --> 01:33:13.887
we're in should give us the foundation and the motivation to build something better down the road.

01:33:14.087 --> 01:33:18.127
So again, Les, thank you for, for doing this and thank you for being on the

01:33:18.127 --> 01:33:20.287
podcast. And thank you for all you're doing.

01:33:20.787 --> 01:33:24.547
All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side. Music.

01:33:43.926 --> 01:33:49.426
And so it is time for my next guest, Representative Dr.

01:33:49.906 --> 01:33:55.226
Jasmine Clark. Dr. Jasmine Clark is a state representative scientist and mother

01:33:55.226 --> 01:33:56.866
of two from Atlanta, Georgia.

01:33:57.426 --> 01:34:02.786
She received her B.S. in biological sciences with a concentration in microbiology

01:34:02.786 --> 01:34:06.466
from the University of Tennessee in Knoxville in 2005.

01:34:07.286 --> 01:34:12.966
Following her graduation from UTK, she attended Emory University's Laney Graduate

01:34:12.966 --> 01:34:19.366
School, where she received her doctoral degree in microbiology and molecular genetics in 2013.

01:34:19.866 --> 01:34:25.806
She currently serves as a lecturer of microbiology and human anatomy and physiology

01:34:25.806 --> 01:34:31.786
at the Nell Hogson Woodruff School of Nursing at Emory University.

01:34:32.006 --> 01:34:34.886
She is also an active member of her community.

01:34:35.186 --> 01:34:40.926
In 2017, she served as director of the March for Science held in Atlanta and

01:34:40.926 --> 01:34:43.786
has been involved with the Georgia Alliance for Social Justice.

01:34:44.026 --> 01:34:50.226
She was elected to office in 2018 when she beat out six-year incumbent Clay Cox.

01:34:50.486 --> 01:34:55.766
She has represented Georgia's 108th district since 2019.

01:34:56.206 --> 01:35:00.546
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

01:35:00.546 --> 01:35:05.146
on this podcast, Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark.

01:35:17.847 --> 01:35:21.167
Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark, how are you doing?

01:35:21.827 --> 01:35:25.127
I'm doing well. How are you doing this morning? I'm doing good.

01:35:25.347 --> 01:35:27.367
I'm doing better than you because I'm not campaigning.

01:35:27.727 --> 01:35:30.907
I'm not out there shaking hands and kissing babies and all that stuff.

01:35:31.467 --> 01:35:35.887
Those days, I think the last time I ran for something was 2008.

01:35:36.807 --> 01:35:42.787
So, yeah, I've been far removed from that, but I always applaud those of you

01:35:42.787 --> 01:35:47.047
who get out there and seek public office and are willing to serve the public.

01:35:47.047 --> 01:35:51.307
So I want to thank you for your service to the state of Georgia.

01:35:52.047 --> 01:35:56.307
And I'm excited for you and that you're running for the United States Congress.

01:35:56.607 --> 01:36:03.107
So let's go ahead and get started. I do a couple of icebreakers to kind of kick the conversation off.

01:36:04.425 --> 01:36:08.065
First icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.

01:36:08.605 --> 01:36:14.025
And the quote is, we need to be bold, loud, and intentional about standing up

01:36:14.025 --> 01:36:17.465
for our values and against what's happening in our communities.

01:36:17.705 --> 01:36:22.145
If people aren't hearing you, it's because you're not being loud enough.

01:36:22.365 --> 01:36:23.685
What does that quote mean to you?

01:36:24.625 --> 01:36:27.505
Well, it means a lot to me because I do believe it is my quote.

01:36:27.505 --> 01:36:35.145
I believe that there are a lot of injustices that are happening in our communities.

01:36:35.245 --> 01:36:39.325
And I do believe that complacency is not okay.

01:36:39.505 --> 01:36:46.805
And I do believe that we actually have to stand up to it boldly and loudly and very intentionally.

01:36:47.125 --> 01:36:51.605
And we can't use excuses like, oh, I didn't have this or I couldn't say this.

01:36:51.645 --> 01:36:56.385
I just believe that to be true. So when it comes to standing up for my community,

01:36:56.385 --> 01:37:00.225
I am proud to be bold and loud.

01:37:01.005 --> 01:37:04.765
Okay. Now, the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.

01:37:05.185 --> 01:37:09.965
Okay. So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20. Okay.

01:37:11.745 --> 01:37:16.145
I'm trying to think. Let's see. Seven.

01:37:16.605 --> 01:37:21.685
All right. what do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics

01:37:21.685 --> 01:37:24.145
current events health etc,

01:37:24.965 --> 01:37:27.925
oh man whatever is the way

01:37:27.925 --> 01:37:34.365
that you consume any information so if you're the type of person that you know

01:37:34.365 --> 01:37:39.525
consumes your information you know through the news and then that might be a

01:37:39.525 --> 01:37:43.525
good way or if you're the type of person that likes to look things up and researched

01:37:43.525 --> 01:37:46.885
and getting on the internet and doing that, but just make sure you're looking at good sources.

01:37:47.345 --> 01:37:50.805
But ultimately, I actually don't think there is one good way.

01:37:51.425 --> 01:37:55.585
That's probably maybe a good thing or a bad thing, but I don't think it's one good way. Okay.

01:37:56.585 --> 01:38:01.325
So as I always tell my guests, which is actually a fact,

01:38:02.354 --> 01:38:08.474
But most of the guests are smarter than me. And so I want to know somebody with

01:38:08.474 --> 01:38:13.994
your background in health, because your background is in health,

01:38:14.114 --> 01:38:15.854
right? Like nursing or something like that?

01:38:16.134 --> 01:38:19.614
So I teach at a nursing school. I teach future nurses, but my background is

01:38:19.614 --> 01:38:22.934
actually in microbiology, research science. Right. Yeah.

01:38:23.654 --> 01:38:29.154
That's where the doctor comes from. So why did somebody that was into microbiology

01:38:29.154 --> 01:38:31.014
decide to get interested in politics?

01:38:32.287 --> 01:38:36.527
So I asked myself this same question, and I first decided to run for office

01:38:36.527 --> 01:38:39.647
back in 2017 when I first got on the campaign trail.

01:38:39.827 --> 01:38:44.587
And the truth of the matter is, I was really concerned with the people who were

01:38:44.587 --> 01:38:45.667
in charge of our country,

01:38:45.987 --> 01:38:48.847
the people in leadership, the people in charge of our state,

01:38:48.847 --> 01:38:55.567
really being okay with the misinformation and the disinformation.

01:38:55.567 --> 01:38:58.787
So I decided to run for office back in the day.

01:38:59.007 --> 01:39:04.907
This feels so long ago, but this did happen back in the day when Kellyanne Conway,

01:39:05.227 --> 01:39:09.467
who was a part of Trump's administration, was going around telling people that

01:39:09.467 --> 01:39:12.427
they were entitled to their alternative facts.

01:39:12.427 --> 01:39:14.967
So first I got into activism.

01:39:15.107 --> 01:39:17.507
I led the Atlanta March for Science.

01:39:18.187 --> 01:39:23.627
10,000 people showed up and said, we want to see better policymaking that actually

01:39:23.627 --> 01:39:27.367
takes into account real evidence, real data, real facts.

01:39:27.607 --> 01:39:33.427
And it kind of just pushed me into this world that I never thought I would be part of.

01:39:33.587 --> 01:39:37.527
And so I actually tell the story when I'm on the campaign trail of like in November

01:39:37.527 --> 01:39:41.967
of 2016, I went to sleep a scientist. And that next morning,

01:39:42.007 --> 01:39:43.487
I woke up a mad scientist.

01:39:43.547 --> 01:39:48.227
And that's what propelled me into this world that I am now, where I still am

01:39:48.227 --> 01:39:51.507
a strong advocate for science. And I still actually do science.

01:39:51.647 --> 01:39:57.247
But I also feel like policy is really important. And we need those science voices in the room.

01:39:58.907 --> 01:40:04.307
Tell the listeners about Georgia's 13th Congressional District and why you want

01:40:04.307 --> 01:40:06.807
to represent them in Congress. Yeah.

01:40:07.090 --> 01:40:10.850
Absolutely. So Georgia's 13th Congressional District includes six counties.

01:40:10.890 --> 01:40:14.730
It includes parts of Gwinnett County, all of Rockdale County,

01:40:15.030 --> 01:40:20.550
parts of Newton County, parts of Henry, parts of Clayton, and parts of DeKalb

01:40:20.550 --> 01:40:22.410
County as well in the South DeKalb area.

01:40:22.750 --> 01:40:28.450
And I want to be the representative because I want to bring that science lens

01:40:28.450 --> 01:40:33.870
and perspective that I brought to the Georgia State Legislature to Washington, D.C.

01:40:33.990 --> 01:40:37.610
So I'm seeing all the things that are happening with healthcare,

01:40:37.890 --> 01:40:39.950
public health, the way RFK Jr.

01:40:40.210 --> 01:40:46.350
Has been allowed to just completely dismantle and undermine our public health systems,

01:40:46.690 --> 01:40:52.130
the way Elon Musk was allowed to just go in and indiscriminately fire our public

01:40:52.130 --> 01:40:56.350
health workers and cut funding to very important research.

01:40:56.630 --> 01:41:00.930
And when I think about the cutting of funding to research, what I realize is

01:41:00.930 --> 01:41:03.990
that a lot of people are like, well, I don't do research. Why should I care about that?

01:41:04.130 --> 01:41:07.090
But a lot of the things that that people do care about.

01:41:08.251 --> 01:41:13.831
Come about because there is some science nerd in a lab that has asked the questions

01:41:13.831 --> 01:41:19.071
that leads to the things that we actually do care about, like having access to certain therapies,

01:41:19.371 --> 01:41:23.911
like understanding when is the best time for people to get screened for certain cancers,

01:41:24.211 --> 01:41:30.411
like watching and surveilling when a very deadly virus starts out on a cruise

01:41:30.411 --> 01:41:33.611
ship in the middle of the ocean, but those people have to come home.

01:41:33.671 --> 01:41:37.831
And we want to make sure that the proper contact tracing is happening so that

01:41:37.831 --> 01:41:42.891
we don't have to see another COVID-19-like pandemic happen.

01:41:43.011 --> 01:41:46.211
And to be clear, hantavirus is not the same as COVID-19.

01:41:46.371 --> 01:41:50.551
But these are why it's important to have those science voices in the room.

01:41:50.691 --> 01:41:54.831
I want to be that science voice. And I did some research, because that's what

01:41:54.831 --> 01:41:59.571
I do, and found out that if I were to be elected, I would be the first woman

01:41:59.571 --> 01:42:02.651
with a science PhD ever elected to Congress,

01:42:02.891 --> 01:42:06.951
not just to the 13th Congressional District, not just to Congress in Georgia.

01:42:07.191 --> 01:42:13.011
But in our 250-year history of a nation, I would be the first woman with a science

01:42:13.011 --> 01:42:15.911
PhD to ever serve. And I think that's a big deal.

01:42:16.471 --> 01:42:21.931
Yeah. Yeah. That does sound like a big deal. It's kind of hard to believe that

01:42:21.931 --> 01:42:24.011
there's never been anybody.

01:42:24.271 --> 01:42:27.451
You know, I've seen medical doctors serve.

01:42:27.951 --> 01:42:33.471
Nobody that's been in the sciences like you are a researcher getting elected.

01:42:33.711 --> 01:42:37.471
So that's, That's that's yeah, that would be pretty cool historically.

01:42:37.971 --> 01:42:41.231
All right. At the financial reporting prior to early voting,

01:42:41.251 --> 01:42:45.291
it showed that you had raised the most money of all the candidates.

01:42:45.931 --> 01:42:49.991
However, there has been some controversy brought up concerning where your contributions

01:42:49.991 --> 01:42:52.431
came from. Would you like to address that?

01:42:53.514 --> 01:42:58.394
Yeah, all of my contributions have come from individuals. So I think there's

01:42:58.394 --> 01:43:03.194
a lot of misinformation that is out there about how campaigns work.

01:43:03.454 --> 01:43:10.074
My contributions that are filed through the FEC that I am required to do every

01:43:10.074 --> 01:43:13.754
three months and actually now every month leading up to the election,

01:43:13.894 --> 01:43:17.594
and now if it's more than $1,000 every 48 hours,

01:43:18.054 --> 01:43:20.774
all of those contributions come from individuals.

01:43:20.774 --> 01:43:22.874
I do have a handful of PACs.

01:43:22.954 --> 01:43:30.434
I think I have like 314 Action has a PAC and the nurses have a PAC and things like that.

01:43:30.634 --> 01:43:34.374
I think what you might be referring to is super PAC money.

01:43:34.594 --> 01:43:36.634
That money does not come to my campaign.

01:43:36.874 --> 01:43:43.694
I do not see that money. I have never seen that money. That money is spent by a super PAC.

01:43:44.214 --> 01:43:48.294
And to be clear, I cannot coordinate with super PACs as well.

01:43:48.534 --> 01:43:55.454
So again, as a person in science and as a person who got into politics to dispel

01:43:55.454 --> 01:43:59.874
misinformation, I do think it's really important for people to understand the difference.

01:44:00.074 --> 01:44:06.374
I actually have been very successful in getting support with a message of bringing

01:44:06.374 --> 01:44:08.274
a science voice to Congress.

01:44:08.274 --> 01:44:15.674
I have over 23,000 individual donors, and my average donation is actually less than $35.

01:44:16.274 --> 01:44:21.494
So people were like, well, you raised a million dollars. How can you be for the people?

01:44:21.654 --> 01:44:27.854
I'm like, it is 23,000 individual people that are sending me to Congress.

01:44:28.174 --> 01:44:32.934
And so, yeah, that's, I hope that clears that up a little bit because there

01:44:32.934 --> 01:44:34.614
has been a lot of misinformation about that.

01:44:34.974 --> 01:44:40.074
Yeah. And, you know, I've run, you know, federal office before too.

01:44:40.274 --> 01:44:43.674
So I know that's a lot of paperwork and it's very meticulous.

01:44:43.874 --> 01:44:48.294
And if you've got that many donors, especially in a race like to Congress because,

01:44:48.414 --> 01:44:50.994
you know, a president, you know, they have like staff.

01:44:52.138 --> 01:44:55.258
Yes. Oh, no, I have staff. I will be very clear.

01:44:55.658 --> 01:45:01.038
I have hired someone to do my filings because it is a lot to do.

01:45:01.238 --> 01:45:06.178
I don't know how I would have been able to handle filing 23,000.

01:45:06.318 --> 01:45:10.798
I'm sure whoever, the firm that we use, I'm sure they have a system in place for that.

01:45:11.018 --> 01:45:15.278
But no, yeah, 23, actually, we're knocking on the door of 24,000.

01:45:15.278 --> 01:45:21.578
Like, it has been an amazing outpouring of support from people.

01:45:21.578 --> 01:45:27.358
I'm talking teachers. I'm talking dentists, doctors, just regular everyday people,

01:45:27.518 --> 01:45:33.038
moms, saying, I love what you're talking about, and I want to see you in Congress.

01:45:33.558 --> 01:45:40.958
And so that's who I'm answering to when I talk about who is sending me to Congress.

01:45:40.958 --> 01:45:44.298
It is those people that took, you know, especially in this economy,

01:45:44.838 --> 01:45:48.258
you know, took the time to support me and show support for me through their

01:45:48.258 --> 01:45:52.438
donations, but also through reaching out to me, you know, telling me,

01:45:52.598 --> 01:45:57.198
you know, what's on their mind, what's important to them, showing support in so many different ways.

01:45:57.898 --> 01:46:02.198
Super PACs exist. If you want to talk about super PACs, let's talk about Citizens United.

01:46:02.458 --> 01:46:07.838
Let's talk about how the Supreme Court basically allow corporations to be treated

01:46:07.838 --> 01:46:13.158
like individuals and giving them a lot of leeway. We can talk about that.

01:46:13.358 --> 01:46:17.478
But when we talk about my campaign, the Jasmine Clark for Congress campaign,

01:46:17.798 --> 01:46:19.198
that's fueled by people.

01:46:19.818 --> 01:46:24.098
Gotcha. How has David Scott's passing impacted your race?

01:46:24.658 --> 01:46:28.678
You know, it's been very interesting. When Davis got passed,

01:46:28.898 --> 01:46:32.358
it was kind of a jolt to the system because that's not exactly,

01:46:32.618 --> 01:46:35.638
you know, that wasn't expected for me, at least.

01:46:37.104 --> 01:46:40.924
I think the impact has been one of confusion. I will say that.

01:46:41.144 --> 01:46:44.464
There are a lot of people that are like, I don't understand. What does this mean?

01:46:44.624 --> 01:46:49.264
Does that mean now we have to have a special election? And is your race even still happening?

01:46:49.724 --> 01:46:54.964
And that was like the initial confusion. And so to answer those questions,

01:46:55.284 --> 01:46:59.064
yes, May 19th is still happening. Early voting has already started.

01:46:59.564 --> 01:47:04.204
Yes, there will be a special election, but as a completely separate election

01:47:04.204 --> 01:47:09.184
that happens on July 28th, so two and a half months after May 19th.

01:47:09.184 --> 01:47:16.804
And that is only to fulfill the current term left by David Scott upon his passing.

01:47:17.204 --> 01:47:21.684
And no, the person who runs in a special election does not show up on the ballot in November.

01:47:24.444 --> 01:47:29.384
And then there was confusion at the polls itself. So I had people reaching out

01:47:29.384 --> 01:47:31.944
to me saying David Scott's name was still on my ballot.

01:47:32.164 --> 01:47:37.024
And the truth of the matter is the ballots were already created before his passing.

01:47:37.344 --> 01:47:41.644
And so there was no way to actually remove his name from the ballot.

01:47:41.644 --> 01:47:46.264
So voters were supposed to be informed as they get to the polling precinct that

01:47:46.264 --> 01:47:49.864
any votes cast for him will not be counted.

01:47:51.104 --> 01:47:54.484
However, that doesn't take into account that some people are voting absentee.

01:47:54.604 --> 01:47:56.544
They're not showing up to a polling precinct.

01:47:56.744 --> 01:47:59.944
Doesn't take into account that everybody isn't getting their news the same way

01:47:59.944 --> 01:48:04.444
at the same time. And a lot of people actually do not know that the congressman has passed.

01:48:04.864 --> 01:48:08.524
And also, there are a lot of people in the community that still have their David

01:48:08.524 --> 01:48:13.324
Scott signs up loud and proud. And so if you are not consuming your news and

01:48:13.324 --> 01:48:17.504
know that he has passed, you might very well still think that you can vote for him.

01:48:17.624 --> 01:48:21.764
So that has had a little bit of an impact on the race as far as like people

01:48:21.764 --> 01:48:23.904
just not really knowing what's going on.

01:48:25.004 --> 01:48:30.664
The other impact that I will say it has had is that now, for those that do know

01:48:30.664 --> 01:48:35.264
that the congressman has passed, they now have to choose between six other individuals.

01:48:35.604 --> 01:48:41.244
And of those six individuals, I will say that my campaign, me, Dr.

01:48:41.364 --> 01:48:46.844
Jasmine Clark, has made a concerted effort to reach the voters in all types

01:48:46.844 --> 01:48:51.424
of way, whether it be mail, whether it be TV, whether it be on their social media,

01:48:51.764 --> 01:48:56.404
whether it's on their YouTube channel, whether it's on the radio, knocking doors.

01:48:56.464 --> 01:48:58.724
We've knocked thousands of doors already.

01:48:58.924 --> 01:49:02.684
We just did 2,000 doors last weekend. Whether it's on their phone,

01:49:02.964 --> 01:49:07.084
whether it's through a handwritten postcard, like we are trying to reach voters

01:49:07.084 --> 01:49:10.884
in a way that we hope is meaningful.

01:49:10.984 --> 01:49:16.064
And I think that on May 19th, we hope that all of this work that we have done

01:49:16.064 --> 01:49:20.244
from those contributions, from those 23,000 plus people.

01:49:20.444 --> 01:49:25.264
We hope that that work bears the fruit that we hope that it will bear and that

01:49:25.264 --> 01:49:30.804
I will be the next congressperson for Congressional District 13 starting in January of 2027.

01:49:31.284 --> 01:49:36.324
So now are you going to take the same route that Nikema Williams did and not

01:49:36.324 --> 01:49:39.904
run in the special, just ride with the results of the general election?

01:49:41.002 --> 01:49:44.762
And here's the reason why. There's actually a really good reason for why I would

01:49:44.762 --> 01:49:47.882
do that. I am a current sitting state representative.

01:49:48.222 --> 01:49:53.502
If I qualify for the special election, I vacate my seat immediately.

01:49:53.502 --> 01:49:57.402
The moment I sign that signature, I am no longer the state representative.

01:49:58.222 --> 01:50:01.962
I don't know if you've been seeing what's been going on across legislatures in the country.

01:50:02.342 --> 01:50:07.842
Right now is not the time to create a vacancy in the statehouse when we need

01:50:07.842 --> 01:50:11.562
people to be fighting back against this redistricting efforts that are happening.

01:50:11.562 --> 01:50:16.122
In Georgia, we still got to figure out this QR code thing because we've made

01:50:16.122 --> 01:50:19.322
QR codes illegal, but that's how people are voting right now.

01:50:19.442 --> 01:50:21.982
And so as of July 1st, what are we doing?

01:50:22.922 --> 01:50:25.842
Very likely we will have a special session to address that.

01:50:26.002 --> 01:50:30.482
I do not want this seat to be empty when we have those conversations.

01:50:30.482 --> 01:50:33.942
I do believe that the people who live in House District 108,

01:50:34.502 --> 01:50:38.402
my current House district, who also live in Congressional District 13,

01:50:39.062 --> 01:50:43.202
deserve to have a seat at the table when all of these things are happening.

01:50:43.462 --> 01:50:48.582
And so I just don't feel that it's right to abandon my constituents just to

01:50:48.582 --> 01:50:50.662
get into Congress a couple of months earlier.

01:50:51.442 --> 01:50:56.262
And so, yes, I will take a similar route to what Nakima Williams did and really

01:50:56.262 --> 01:51:01.702
just focus on making sure I am fulfilling my obligation to my current constituents

01:51:01.702 --> 01:51:06.342
and preparing to be the next congressperson in January of 2027.

01:51:06.902 --> 01:51:10.682
So now, you know, one of the things

01:51:10.682 --> 01:51:15.162
that I was critical about Congressman Scott, but it wasn't really...

01:51:17.084 --> 01:51:21.904
It's not illegal because to run for Congress, as long as you live in the state

01:51:21.904 --> 01:51:24.804
you're running in, you can live anywhere and run for any district.

01:51:25.784 --> 01:51:30.384
But one of the concerns I had was the fact that he did not live in a district.

01:51:30.704 --> 01:51:32.644
At some point, he had moved out.

01:51:33.424 --> 01:51:37.664
And, you know, I'm just one of those politicians. When I was running that,

01:51:37.844 --> 01:51:40.824
I wanted every vote to count, including mine. Right.

01:51:40.984 --> 01:51:45.484
Because if it came down to one vote and I couldn't vote in my own election,

01:51:45.804 --> 01:51:51.004
I would feel kind of some kind of way. Why is it important?

01:51:51.704 --> 01:51:54.924
Because you mentioned that your district is in the congressional district.

01:51:55.084 --> 01:52:00.064
Why is it important for somebody to live in the district that's running for the district?

01:52:01.330 --> 01:52:05.550
That's really important. And I think the reason why it's important is exactly what you just said.

01:52:05.770 --> 01:52:10.610
I think that when you are going somewhere and saying,

01:52:10.770 --> 01:52:17.150
I'm going to be the voice of the community, I feel like the least you could

01:52:17.150 --> 01:52:21.110
do or should do is be a part of that community.

01:52:21.830 --> 01:52:27.770
And so as the representative of House District 108, I have spent a lot of time

01:52:27.770 --> 01:52:30.750
in my community running for state house.

01:52:30.810 --> 01:52:34.910
I was in one of the more competitive districts in the state legislature.

01:52:35.210 --> 01:52:41.490
And so I really took it very seriously that I needed to have my ear to the ground. So I was out there.

01:52:41.610 --> 01:52:45.170
I was having the town halls, but I was also going to the events.

01:52:45.170 --> 01:52:49.090
I was going to the local farmers markets. I was going to the,

01:52:49.090 --> 01:52:53.130
you know, local days in the park, food truck Tuesdays and all that stuff.

01:52:53.310 --> 01:53:00.190
I was embedded in my community. And I think that made me a better representative.

01:53:00.570 --> 01:53:04.870
And there are so many people today, even right now, when I go somewhere,

01:53:05.010 --> 01:53:08.030
they're like, that's my state representative. I know her.

01:53:08.170 --> 01:53:11.070
I see her. And she's accessible.

01:53:11.810 --> 01:53:19.790
I think that there's something to be said about having to represent an area

01:53:19.790 --> 01:53:22.570
that you're just not embedded in.

01:53:23.130 --> 01:53:26.810
And now, mind you, a congressional district is much larger than the state house district.

01:53:27.030 --> 01:53:30.430
So there are parts of this district where I have ties. So, for example,

01:53:30.510 --> 01:53:34.070
I have family in Rockdale County. I have family in Newton County.

01:53:34.630 --> 01:53:38.870
I have family in Ellenwood. Actually, at one point I lived in Ellenwood.

01:53:38.870 --> 01:53:44.710
Like I have family all throughout the district. So I do have ties to this district

01:53:44.710 --> 01:53:47.570
while also living, physically living in a district.

01:53:48.050 --> 01:53:54.890
And then like, I think if you're voting for Congress and not able to vote for

01:53:54.890 --> 01:53:57.830
yourself, I think that is kind of a testament to like.

01:53:58.944 --> 01:54:05.164
Maybe this is something that someone who does live there and can vote for themselves should do.

01:54:05.424 --> 01:54:09.704
Now, I don't like to speak ill of those that have passed.

01:54:09.844 --> 01:54:14.164
So I do want to say this is like me just speaking generally about how I think

01:54:14.164 --> 01:54:19.904
about people who run for districts that they don't live in and not necessarily

01:54:19.904 --> 01:54:23.664
specifically about Congressman Scott upon his passing. Yeah.

01:54:24.224 --> 01:54:28.704
And I, you know, I understand that, especially, especially now.

01:54:29.344 --> 01:54:32.544
Since you brought up redistricting, what are your thoughts about the recent

01:54:32.544 --> 01:54:36.444
Supreme Court decision concerning Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act?

01:54:36.924 --> 01:54:41.164
You know, it's actually really devastating. And the John Lewis Voting Rights

01:54:41.164 --> 01:54:46.044
Advancement Act has been on the table for a while now, and it is abundantly

01:54:46.044 --> 01:54:50.324
clear now more than ever that we needed to pass that like yesterday.

01:54:50.744 --> 01:54:58.404
The Calais decision is very interesting to me because the decision happened.

01:54:58.584 --> 01:55:03.404
That's one thing. What I found most interesting was the response.

01:55:03.604 --> 01:55:08.184
How quickly there were certain governments,

01:55:08.744 --> 01:55:13.324
Republican governments in particular, that said, now that we have got the green

01:55:13.324 --> 01:55:18.624
light to dilute Black voting power, let's do it.

01:55:18.724 --> 01:55:22.844
And I mean like immediately, like let's cancel the election that's already happening

01:55:22.844 --> 01:55:25.744
so that we can go ahead and dilute their voices.

01:55:25.984 --> 01:55:30.824
In Tennessee, let's draw districts where from one end of the district to the other,

01:55:31.024 --> 01:55:36.624
it would take you over three hours to drive there because it's 200 miles away

01:55:36.624 --> 01:55:41.744
so that we can dilute the power of the Black vote in the Memphis area.

01:55:43.371 --> 01:55:47.651
Gone through the redistricting process before, actually having been redistricted

01:55:47.651 --> 01:55:51.051
twice, I've been elected four terms,

01:55:51.491 --> 01:55:55.851
Eric, and I have run in three different iterations of this district because

01:55:55.851 --> 01:56:01.231
I kept getting redrawn and they kept going after me in the redistricting process.

01:56:01.291 --> 01:56:07.331
But what I will say is having done it, I know what you're supposed to consider

01:56:07.331 --> 01:56:11.551
when you're doing redistricting. You're supposed to consider things like communities

01:56:11.551 --> 01:56:15.091
of interest and all of that stuff. I lived in Tennessee.

01:56:15.391 --> 01:56:21.131
I can tell you right now, you cannot convince me that drawing a district that

01:56:21.131 --> 01:56:26.731
starts in Memphis and goes all the way to the rural areas of Tennessee acknowledges

01:56:26.731 --> 01:56:28.411
true communities of interest.

01:56:28.551 --> 01:56:32.851
So it flies in the face of what districts are supposed to be.

01:56:32.851 --> 01:56:38.771
And I really just think that, one, people, including Black people,

01:56:38.891 --> 01:56:43.431
and specifically Black people, have to show up in droves in elections because

01:56:43.431 --> 01:56:44.971
the reason why they do this,

01:56:45.371 --> 01:56:49.931
one, they go after us because they know the power of our vote if we show up.

01:56:49.931 --> 01:56:54.631
But two, they actually don't fear the consequences of going after Black voters.

01:56:54.931 --> 01:56:59.411
And so we need to make them fear the consequences of going after Black voters,

01:56:59.431 --> 01:57:04.671
which is that we're going to organize and we're going to fight back and we are

01:57:04.671 --> 01:57:07.651
going to strategize and we're going to beat them at their own game.

01:57:08.151 --> 01:57:13.511
Maybe not as quickly as we want to, but over time, I'm telling you,

01:57:13.611 --> 01:57:19.951
this stuff does not work if you get people galvanized and energized enough that

01:57:19.951 --> 01:57:21.011
they're ready to fight back.

01:57:21.191 --> 01:57:24.411
And I think right now a lot of people are paying attention and they're ready to fight back.

01:57:25.191 --> 01:57:29.851
Well, you know, one of the things I was going to bring up in my opinion part

01:57:29.851 --> 01:57:35.111
of the show, just remind folks that early on the British was winning the Revolutionary

01:57:35.111 --> 01:57:38.211
War and the Confederates were winning the Civil War.

01:57:38.391 --> 01:57:41.311
And we know what happened in the end. Yeah.

01:57:41.723 --> 01:57:46.163
And I think that that's really the approach that we have to have as black people

01:57:46.163 --> 01:57:49.263
that, you know, they're doing their little victory laps now,

01:57:49.463 --> 01:57:53.083
especially after the Virginia Supreme Court decision yesterday.

01:57:53.563 --> 01:57:59.423
But November 3rd is still coming. And I agree with you, the more that we turn

01:57:59.423 --> 01:58:04.683
out, you know, the results that everybody is expecting is going to happen.

01:58:04.683 --> 01:58:07.923
Speaking about Supreme Court, since the U.S.

01:58:08.123 --> 01:58:14.903
Since the circuits of the U.S. Court of Appeals are assigned a circuit justice from the U.S.

01:58:15.243 --> 01:58:20.663
Supreme Court and there are 13 courts of appeal circuits, would you vote for

01:58:20.663 --> 01:58:23.923
an expansion of the U.S. Supreme Court to 13 justices?

01:58:25.249 --> 01:58:32.209
Absolutely. I actually believe that we are long overdue for expanding the court.

01:58:32.469 --> 01:58:39.589
Now, we do need to do it in a way that we make sure that we are,

01:58:39.709 --> 01:58:41.049
I guess, strategic about it.

01:58:41.129 --> 01:58:44.909
So I wouldn't do it right now while Donald Trump is the president.

01:58:44.909 --> 01:58:51.449
But the moment Democrats actually have power, which could be very soon,

01:58:51.469 --> 01:58:56.529
we need to grab it by the horns and actually do the things that need to be done

01:58:56.529 --> 01:59:01.149
to make sure that we are just keeping up with the times.

01:59:01.329 --> 01:59:04.649
I'm sorry, our Supreme Court is way too small for the size of our nation,

01:59:04.649 --> 01:59:09.589
but also to your point, to the size of our appeals courts and all the different

01:59:09.589 --> 01:59:15.789
things. So I am 100% in favor of increasing the size of the court.

01:59:16.509 --> 01:59:20.869
Yeah. Are Georgians concerned about the Epstein files?

01:59:21.089 --> 01:59:26.229
And if not, what are they concerned about and how will you go about addressing those concerns?

01:59:27.089 --> 01:59:31.869
Georgians are concerned. So here's the thing. Georgians are concerned about the Epstein files,

01:59:31.989 --> 01:59:38.409
but in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that is actually not really hitting the

01:59:38.409 --> 01:59:42.649
mark at this moment because people are also concerned about the fact that they

01:59:42.649 --> 01:59:44.909
can't afford to put gas in their car to get to work,

01:59:44.909 --> 01:59:47.269
or they just lost their job,

01:59:47.289 --> 01:59:52.489
or they just had to drop their health insurance because of the premium tax credits

01:59:52.489 --> 01:59:55.709
not being expanded and their health insurance tripling.

01:59:56.529 --> 02:00:02.269
There's a lot of other things that are on the minds of people to where I have

02:00:02.269 --> 02:00:06.029
not necessarily been in rooms. I've been to several candidate forums.

02:00:06.149 --> 02:00:08.489
I think at this point, I've probably been to like 11 or 12.

02:00:08.869 --> 02:00:11.829
I've not been in a single room where Epstein has come up.

02:00:12.509 --> 02:00:17.769
But when you bring up Epstein, it is definitely on people's minds because there

02:00:17.769 --> 02:00:21.209
is something to be said about the fact that.

02:00:22.305 --> 02:00:27.865
People accused of some pretty heinous things, especially crimes against children.

02:00:27.905 --> 02:00:35.065
And it seems like these elites or what they consider themselves elite are not

02:00:35.065 --> 02:00:38.445
being held accountable in a way that people in our communities would have the

02:00:38.445 --> 02:00:40.445
book slapped at them like immediately.

02:00:40.865 --> 02:00:48.325
So it is something that doesn't necessarily come up or rise to the top in moments

02:00:48.325 --> 02:00:51.645
right now where people are worried about affordability.

02:00:52.525 --> 02:00:57.245
But that doesn't mean it has gone away. I am 100% in favor of,

02:00:57.405 --> 02:00:59.525
one, releasing the entirety of the Epstein files.

02:00:59.685 --> 02:01:02.405
I believe technically they still haven't even done that part yet.

02:01:03.725 --> 02:01:07.665
And not redacting the way they are redacting.

02:01:07.905 --> 02:01:12.485
Like the way they did redactions before where they were removing the names of

02:01:12.485 --> 02:01:18.085
powerful people, but keeping the names of victims exposed, let me know that

02:01:18.085 --> 02:01:20.985
these people are not serious about this process.

02:01:21.305 --> 02:01:24.725
And so, yes, I do believe that is something that needs to be addressed.

02:01:24.905 --> 02:01:26.305
It has never left my mind.

02:01:26.545 --> 02:01:29.385
It is still on my mind. It's still something that needs to be addressed.

02:01:29.525 --> 02:01:33.785
And I do every now and then bring it back up just to remind people,

02:01:34.025 --> 02:01:38.945
you know, people will do a lot of things to try to get away with stuff.

02:01:39.665 --> 02:01:42.905
Start a whole war just to get you to stop talking about Epstein.

02:01:43.445 --> 02:01:47.665
You know, let people try to take food off of baby's tables in order to get you

02:01:47.665 --> 02:01:48.665
to stop talking about Epstein.

02:01:48.825 --> 02:01:53.305
Like, literally have immigration officers out here shooting people in the face

02:01:53.305 --> 02:01:55.145
to get you to stop talking about Epstein.

02:01:55.945 --> 02:02:01.505
They've tried a lot of things to distract us. I think that we are able as a

02:02:01.505 --> 02:02:05.205
country, though, to walk and chew gum at the same time, and it's never going to go away.

02:02:05.565 --> 02:02:11.785
Yeah, I think the latest distraction now is repainting the reflection pool at the mall.

02:02:12.045 --> 02:02:14.585
I think that's the new one.

02:02:15.085 --> 02:02:17.565
Billion-dollar ballrooms gilded in gold.

02:02:18.785 --> 02:02:24.825
Those are important things to talk about, but they are distractions from the

02:02:24.825 --> 02:02:29.065
larger crimes that have been committed by very powerful people in our country

02:02:29.065 --> 02:02:30.605
that need to be held accountable.

02:02:30.605 --> 02:02:36.625
Yeah, I like the way that you use the Maslow theory.

02:02:36.925 --> 02:02:40.805
It's like I'm just thinking of like a pyramid with like political issues on

02:02:40.805 --> 02:02:41.965
it and stuff. That's pretty cool.

02:02:43.485 --> 02:02:46.645
Would you vote for legislation that will abolish ICE?

02:02:47.837 --> 02:02:52.037
Yes, absolutely. I tell people all the time, I have shoes in my closet older than ICE.

02:02:52.217 --> 02:02:56.657
This is not some foundational institution that absolutely positively has to be there.

02:02:56.937 --> 02:03:00.597
Do we need some type of immigration enforcement? Absolutely.

02:03:00.957 --> 02:03:04.657
But I think that immigration enforcement should actually focus on finding pathways

02:03:04.657 --> 02:03:09.977
for citizenship for people, making sure we are using due process and making

02:03:09.977 --> 02:03:15.037
sure we are not using the heavy hand of the law to profile people in our communities.

02:03:15.357 --> 02:03:20.237
And so the ice in its current iteration is just, to me, unfixable.

02:03:20.337 --> 02:03:21.137
We need something different.

02:03:21.797 --> 02:03:27.037
All right. Did you support the Democrats' position during the various government shutdowns?

02:03:28.197 --> 02:03:32.157
Well, so did I support the Democrats' position to fight for healthcare? Absolutely.

02:03:32.457 --> 02:03:34.897
And I was actually kind of devastated that at the end of that,

02:03:35.037 --> 02:03:37.237
we didn't get what we were fighting for.

02:03:37.617 --> 02:03:44.757
And we also had upended so many people's lives. That actually didn't sit very

02:03:44.757 --> 02:03:46.297
well with me, I'm going to be very honest.

02:03:46.557 --> 02:03:49.797
But did I support fighting for health care? Absolutely.

02:03:49.997 --> 02:03:55.217
And I believe that that was the right fight to have because now we've seen 500,000

02:03:55.217 --> 02:04:03.237
Georgians or 37% of the people that had ACA plans in 2025 now not have any insurance

02:04:03.237 --> 02:04:08.077
in 2026 because of these decisions. So absolutely for that.

02:04:08.257 --> 02:04:12.917
When the second shutdown happened with the TSA workers, I was 100% in support

02:04:12.917 --> 02:04:17.317
of the bill that said fund everybody else except for ICE. You know what?

02:04:17.457 --> 02:04:21.597
ICE was still getting paid. So that actually was non-controversial.

02:04:22.712 --> 02:04:29.372
Supported that. I do believe that the ICE, the way that ICE is operating, masked up, you know.

02:04:30.112 --> 02:04:33.912
Quotas, grabbing people off the street, not having to identify themselves and

02:04:33.912 --> 02:04:37.852
badge numbers, not having to wear body cams is unsustainable.

02:04:37.952 --> 02:04:41.312
We don't allow our local law enforcement to do that. Why would we allow ICE to do that?

02:04:41.432 --> 02:04:45.072
So I believe that the things that were even being asked for and negotiated weren't

02:04:45.072 --> 02:04:49.432
even difficult things. And the fact that they were saying no to that,

02:04:49.432 --> 02:04:53.032
let me know you're not actually trying to operate with integrity.

02:04:53.132 --> 02:04:57.692
You want to be able to terrorize communities. And so I stand behind that too.

02:04:57.912 --> 02:05:01.112
I do not like how it impacted TSA workers.

02:05:01.352 --> 02:05:05.392
I still do not like how it impacted TSA. I do not like how the administration

02:05:05.392 --> 02:05:11.752
felt then the next best thing to do was not to pay TSA workers,

02:05:11.912 --> 02:05:16.512
but to bring ICE into the airport to try to do what TSA workers do.

02:05:16.692 --> 02:05:19.812
I felt like that was a slap in the face to those employees.

02:05:20.072 --> 02:05:23.772
And to be clear, a lot of those employees live in Congressional District 13.

02:05:24.032 --> 02:05:28.312
And so I support what the Democrats have done. I do not support how Republicans

02:05:28.312 --> 02:05:33.592
have played people and used people as pawns within, like, they just don't care.

02:05:33.732 --> 02:05:37.272
And it's hard when you're basically negotiating with terrorists.

02:05:37.592 --> 02:05:40.732
So, but yes, I guess the short answer to your question is yes.

02:05:41.012 --> 02:05:45.832
All right. So now these questions I'm going to rattle off, and you can just

02:05:45.832 --> 02:05:48.992
say yes or no. If you want to explain your answer, you can.

02:05:49.652 --> 02:05:54.832
Okay. I'll try. Okay. Do you support going to war with Iran? No.

02:05:55.392 --> 02:05:58.752
Would you support the United States going to war with Venezuela?

02:05:59.432 --> 02:06:03.352
No. Do you support military aid to the Ukraine?

02:06:03.932 --> 02:06:08.812
Yes. Do you support military aid to Israel? So depending on what we're talking

02:06:08.812 --> 02:06:14.512
about, most likely no, but it depends on what we're talking about.

02:06:15.483 --> 02:06:21.023
So the October 7th situation, right, immediately after that,

02:06:21.283 --> 02:06:26.983
you would say you might be prone to vote for them to say, okay,

02:06:27.763 --> 02:06:33.863
we're going to, Israel wants to respond to a terrorist attack in their nation. You might vote for that.

02:06:34.743 --> 02:06:39.183
No, I don't vote for war. I don't vote for war. No. All right.

02:06:39.783 --> 02:06:45.223
All right. Taking into account that 33% of your state's population is African-American,

02:06:45.443 --> 02:06:47.243
what is your position on reparations?

02:06:47.783 --> 02:06:51.763
I think it is a long overdue conversation. I've actually worked on reparations

02:06:51.763 --> 02:06:53.023
as a state representative.

02:06:53.283 --> 02:06:58.463
We need to have this conversation. It needs to be had now. And so I'm 100% in favor of it. Okay.

02:06:58.983 --> 02:07:02.763
All right. So early voting has started, as you mentioned, here in Georgia.

02:07:03.183 --> 02:07:07.983
What message do you want to convey to the voters to consider you to be their

02:07:07.983 --> 02:07:09.263
next congresswoman? Okay.

02:07:10.667 --> 02:07:14.267
To be a science voice in Georgia at a time where science is under attack,

02:07:14.547 --> 02:07:17.587
where public health is under attack, where we are, you know,

02:07:17.767 --> 02:07:22.047
in the process of probably dealing with the next pandemic in the next couple

02:07:22.047 --> 02:07:26.847
of years with people at the helm that have absolutely no regard for human life.

02:07:26.907 --> 02:07:29.367
And we need those voices in the room.

02:07:29.527 --> 02:07:35.187
I have a track record as a state representative of standing up to and fighting back against MAGA.

02:07:35.447 --> 02:07:37.527
Like, my record speaks for itself.

02:07:37.927 --> 02:07:42.687
I fought back against Brian Kemp, when he manipulated COVID data,

02:07:42.847 --> 02:07:44.367
he had to change the record.

02:07:44.567 --> 02:07:49.667
I fought back against Republicans when they manipulated and lied about their

02:07:49.667 --> 02:07:52.067
justifications for our state's abortion ban.

02:07:52.267 --> 02:07:55.427
They had to correct the record. And they tried to do that quietly,

02:07:55.487 --> 02:07:56.667
but I will not let them forget.

02:07:56.887 --> 02:08:01.227
I stood up for our students in our schools when our state school superintendent

02:08:01.227 --> 02:08:07.007
tried to not fund AP African-American studies because he tried to call it a divisive concept.

02:08:07.107 --> 02:08:10.007
And I stood up to them and it is now fully funded.

02:08:10.167 --> 02:08:13.927
And I have a child who is in high school right now that has the opportunity

02:08:13.927 --> 02:08:16.327
to take that class because of her mama's fight.

02:08:16.547 --> 02:08:20.367
So I stand up to them. I stand up to them in committee.

02:08:20.607 --> 02:08:24.727
If you've ever watched a committee hearing that I am sitting in at the state

02:08:24.727 --> 02:08:26.787
capitol, you know I am asking the questions.

02:08:26.967 --> 02:08:30.607
I stand up to them on the house floor, whether it's me speaking in the well

02:08:30.607 --> 02:08:32.747
or me asking questions during debate.

02:08:32.967 --> 02:08:39.827
Like I am a fighter and I'm not just saying that for campaign purposes, I have receipts.

02:08:39.967 --> 02:08:43.167
And so if you want to send someone up to Washington, D.C.

02:08:43.347 --> 02:08:48.127
To actually fight for you, know that you can trust that I will do that because

02:08:48.127 --> 02:08:53.307
it's something I'm already doing right now, even today as a sitting state representative.

02:08:53.607 --> 02:08:57.867
And again, because this is really important to me,

02:08:58.027 --> 02:09:02.827
I also want to say we need to have science voices in the room because a lot

02:09:02.827 --> 02:09:06.467
of the things that are impacting our communities, and by our I'm talking about

02:09:06.467 --> 02:09:08.827
black communities, black and brown communities.

02:09:10.388 --> 02:09:14.548
Of the things that are impacting us, those are the things that go on the chopping block first.

02:09:14.688 --> 02:09:17.568
And we need people in the room standing up for us.

02:09:17.648 --> 02:09:21.388
So when they're cutting cancer research and they're cutting things like prostate

02:09:21.388 --> 02:09:26.448
cancer research, guess who is most likely to die from a prostate cancer diagnosis?

02:09:26.768 --> 02:09:30.468
Black men. When they are cutting research funding for breast cancer,

02:09:30.628 --> 02:09:35.288
guess who's most likely to get the most untreatable form of breast cancer,

02:09:35.468 --> 02:09:37.988
which is triple negative breast cancer?

02:09:38.468 --> 02:09:42.448
Black women. When they are cutting funds to Black maternal health,

02:09:42.728 --> 02:09:46.808
guess, or to maternal health, guess who is impacted most?

02:09:47.148 --> 02:09:50.908
Black women. Three times as much as any other demographic.

02:09:51.168 --> 02:09:56.188
So when they are putting things on the chopping block, we need to make sure

02:09:56.188 --> 02:10:00.248
that we have a voice in the room that's fighting back and fighting back from a place of expertise.

02:10:01.128 --> 02:10:04.648
I've been doing it. I want to continue to do it as your next congressperson,

02:10:04.648 --> 02:10:07.748
and I would love to have your vote. Early voting has started.

02:10:08.008 --> 02:10:11.428
It continues through May 15th. Election day is on May 19th.

02:10:11.548 --> 02:10:17.448
And you can learn more about me at jasmine, like the rice, the number four ga.com.

02:10:18.368 --> 02:10:23.948
Well, Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark, you have been very active.

02:10:24.408 --> 02:10:27.628
I came to Atlanta in 2017.

02:10:28.468 --> 02:10:33.728
So basically the time that I've been here, you've been in the legislature.

02:10:34.488 --> 02:10:41.008
And, you know, it's one thing for somebody to have an Instagram page and they put up what they do.

02:10:41.168 --> 02:10:44.828
But it's another thing when your face keeps popping up on other people's Instagram

02:10:44.828 --> 02:10:48.008
pages at the Capitol Builder Doer Work.

02:10:48.168 --> 02:10:55.968
So the track record, I will attest as somebody that was considered very similar to,

02:10:56.714 --> 02:11:00.174
When I served in the legislature, I was the one always asking questions.

02:11:00.174 --> 02:11:03.474
I was going to the well, doing what I needed to do in Mississippi.

02:11:04.094 --> 02:11:09.074
So I respect fighters like that. So I can attest that you're a fighter.

02:11:10.094 --> 02:11:14.354
And we need more people like that in public office.

02:11:14.914 --> 02:11:20.334
It'll be a loss to District 108, but it'll be a gain for District 13.

02:11:20.374 --> 02:11:25.454
So you'll be helping more people if you get in there. But I want to close out

02:11:25.454 --> 02:11:31.434
the interview, since you've done the plug already, I want to close out the interview with this.

02:11:31.734 --> 02:11:34.874
Finish this sentence. I have hope because.

02:11:35.834 --> 02:11:43.574
I have hope because I look at my daughter and my son and I see what they're

02:11:43.574 --> 02:11:51.294
seeing and I see a world where to fight for it for them. And so I have hope.

02:11:51.514 --> 02:11:55.714
They're coming up. But also I have hope because you have people like me willing to fight for that.

02:11:56.754 --> 02:12:02.414
All right. Well, again, Reverend Dr. Reverend Representative Dr.

02:12:02.574 --> 02:12:04.574
Jasmine Clark, I'm about to throw another title on you.

02:12:09.954 --> 02:12:14.014
I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast.

02:12:14.434 --> 02:12:16.994
I know the campaign schedules are hectic.

02:12:17.554 --> 02:12:20.854
I appreciate that you were able to carve out some time to make that happen so

02:12:20.854 --> 02:12:23.974
the listeners will get to hear your viewpoints on this.

02:12:24.294 --> 02:12:27.674
And I wish you continued success on the campaign.

02:12:28.454 --> 02:12:33.394
And hopefully, you'll institute the rule that we have is that once you have

02:12:33.394 --> 02:12:35.774
been a guest, you have an open invitation to come back.

02:12:35.934 --> 02:12:40.954
And if you are the congresswoman for District 13, that you will come back on

02:12:40.954 --> 02:12:43.294
the podcast and kind of let people know what's going on.

02:12:43.634 --> 02:12:46.814
Oh, I look forward to it. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Eric.

02:12:47.314 --> 02:12:49.474
All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

02:13:04.401 --> 02:13:09.921
I want to thank my returning guests, Dr. Tammy Greer and Les Leopold,

02:13:10.101 --> 02:13:11.441
for coming on to the podcast.

02:13:11.801 --> 02:13:16.481
I always like picking Dr. Greer's brain, especially when it comes to Georgia

02:13:16.481 --> 02:13:21.121
politics, but also, you know, she's got her eye on national stuff as well.

02:13:21.121 --> 02:13:27.601
And Les Leopold, who is one of the great political minds that's out here,

02:13:27.881 --> 02:13:34.001
especially from a grassroots organizing perspective and definitely from a labor perspective.

02:13:34.321 --> 02:13:39.521
So please, you know, when you get a chance, get Les' new book,

02:13:39.661 --> 02:13:42.401
which is called The Billionaires Have Two Parties.

02:13:42.601 --> 02:13:44.741
We Need a Party of Our Own.

02:13:45.661 --> 02:13:50.061
It's really, really eye-opening because the book, I don't know.

02:13:51.520 --> 02:13:56.960
Of the material he got from that book was from a survey that his organization,

02:13:57.160 --> 02:14:01.220
the Labor Institute, did talking to working people,

02:14:01.440 --> 02:14:05.560
people that are in unions even or were qualified to be in unions,

02:14:05.560 --> 02:14:10.640
and just kind of got a sense of what are they looking for in their political leadership.

02:14:10.960 --> 02:14:16.900
And a lot of this stuff falls under what I always talk about with real American leadership, right?

02:14:17.220 --> 02:14:21.200
You know, the issues that are important to us. So please, please,

02:14:21.280 --> 02:14:26.720
please, Please, please support Les's work and get that book.

02:14:27.360 --> 02:14:35.260
And then to, you know, having been a candidate myself for a federal office,

02:14:35.840 --> 02:14:38.960
you know, having been elected to a legislative seat.

02:14:40.320 --> 02:14:47.300
I know the demands of campaigning and trying to, you know, get people on schedules

02:14:47.300 --> 02:14:51.980
and all that. And I was really fortunate that I was able to get Representative Dr.

02:14:52.220 --> 02:14:57.060
Jasmine Clark on before Election Day.

02:14:57.320 --> 02:15:00.040
Right. The early voting has started here in Georgia.

02:15:00.880 --> 02:15:07.200
And, you know, but it's really, really it was really, really a blessing to be able to get her on.

02:15:07.360 --> 02:15:12.160
And, you know, it's just it's it's it's it's something to, you know,

02:15:12.560 --> 02:15:16.520
maneuver around schedules like that. But we was glad we was able to carve out

02:15:16.520 --> 02:15:18.880
some time because I think Dr.

02:15:19.040 --> 02:15:24.880
Clark is is really one of the true ones out there running.

02:15:25.460 --> 02:15:31.220
And although I don't live in District 13, I would encourage people to really

02:15:31.220 --> 02:15:35.500
pay attention to her candidacy and and check out her background.

02:15:37.080 --> 02:15:42.040
Let her tell it, you know, there's, you know, there's other people that are good people running.

02:15:42.440 --> 02:15:46.460
Of course, she would say that she's the best candidate and why wouldn't she?

02:15:46.960 --> 02:15:54.100
But, you know, just just pay attention to what's going on. We've got I'm actually in District 11.

02:15:54.580 --> 02:15:58.820
So my congressman is not running for election. That's Barry Laudermilk.

02:15:59.240 --> 02:16:06.520
So it's a wide open race there. It looks like, you know, a couple of people

02:16:06.520 --> 02:16:11.780
that I'm watching to see how that goes, you know, shapes up.

02:16:12.500 --> 02:16:16.880
But, yeah, it's going to be interesting.

02:16:17.880 --> 02:16:24.720
So if you like what you heard from Dr. Clark, please do what you can to support her campaign.

02:16:25.720 --> 02:16:32.660
So real quick, guys, I just want to talk a little bit about where we still are.

02:16:33.220 --> 02:16:41.080
Last week, I vented a little bit and I ended up venting just one particular dude on Facebook.

02:16:41.480 --> 02:16:47.080
And the thing that bothers me about the quote unquote intellectual conservatives

02:16:47.080 --> 02:16:53.380
that try to defend this MAGA movement, You know, one, they do it with a lot of arrogance.

02:16:54.060 --> 02:17:00.140
And two, I just, and I think I said that last week, people that are arrogant

02:17:00.140 --> 02:17:03.540
and ignorant, it's just, that drives me nuts. It does.

02:17:04.460 --> 02:17:08.640
And, you know, I mean, people have a right to their opinion and they can be

02:17:08.640 --> 02:17:09.820
confident in their opinion.

02:17:10.460 --> 02:17:15.360
But, you know, arrogant people, you know, talk to you as if you have no clue

02:17:15.360 --> 02:17:16.880
what you're saying. Right.

02:17:18.200 --> 02:17:25.740
And, you know, people that are arrogant and racist thought and illogical thought,

02:17:26.040 --> 02:17:27.100
you know what I'm saying?

02:17:27.620 --> 02:17:32.920
It's just, it just irks me. And then they just, you know, they just come up

02:17:32.920 --> 02:17:35.360
with all sorts of stuff, man. You know, they'll...

02:17:36.963 --> 02:17:42.823
You know, it's just like the only good thing about where we are now in this

02:17:42.823 --> 02:17:47.223
political climate is that people's true colors are coming out and people that

02:17:47.223 --> 02:17:51.223
I thought were decent people are really not.

02:17:51.223 --> 02:18:02.963
I respect people who try to make an intellectual argument based on their viewpoints, but I still say,

02:18:03.163 --> 02:18:07.543
and I will say it until I can't say it anymore,

02:18:08.863 --> 02:18:12.243
you can't defend the indefensible, right?

02:18:13.083 --> 02:18:17.723
And, you know, for those who want to rally on the conservative side,

02:18:18.023 --> 02:18:22.163
there's an argument to be made about conservatism, right?

02:18:22.543 --> 02:18:28.123
Because black folks are conservative about certain issues and they're liberal on others, right?

02:18:29.283 --> 02:18:37.803
But, you know, what's going on with the president, that's not defendable at all to me.

02:18:38.483 --> 02:18:44.883
I mean, if he was a Democrat, I'd be like, I remember when Bill Clinton and

02:18:44.883 --> 02:18:47.983
the sex scandal came up with Monica Lewinsky, right?

02:18:48.323 --> 02:18:51.843
And I was in leadership at the local Democratic Party at the time.

02:18:52.003 --> 02:18:58.483
And so, you know, I had to express my disdain for when it happened.

02:18:59.758 --> 02:19:04.378
When people that you support put you in an awkward position for something that

02:19:04.378 --> 02:19:07.838
they've done, you know, you, you have to be truthful about it.

02:19:08.138 --> 02:19:12.778
You know, you can try to put a spin on it if you want to, if you have like a

02:19:12.778 --> 02:19:15.558
personal relationship with that person, but somebody like the president of the

02:19:15.558 --> 02:19:19.738
United States, it's like, bro, you putting this in a bad light,

02:19:19.898 --> 02:19:22.858
you know, and, and we got to navigate that.

02:19:22.958 --> 02:19:25.738
I mean, heck, your city councilman can put you in a bad light.

02:19:26.098 --> 02:19:26.738
You know what I'm saying?

02:19:27.238 --> 02:19:34.238
So you have to navigate through that, but you don't go into total denial mode

02:19:34.238 --> 02:19:36.738
that the thing happened.

02:19:37.058 --> 02:19:40.938
You know, you might say something like, well, we got to wait till all the facts come out.

02:19:41.278 --> 02:19:45.998
From what I hear, that doesn't sound too good. But again, we got to go through

02:19:45.998 --> 02:19:50.038
the investigation or the process, whatever the situation dictates, right?

02:19:50.978 --> 02:19:54.718
You know, but you just can't answer and just lie about what's going on.

02:19:54.718 --> 02:20:00.918
But if you see this person doing this or you hear this person saying this or

02:20:00.918 --> 02:20:05.358
you read this person writing this and then you try to turn it around like I

02:20:05.358 --> 02:20:10.658
think the representative talked about Kellyanne Conway, right? And alternative facts.

02:20:11.258 --> 02:20:14.738
It's like, no, there's no such thing as alternative facts.

02:20:15.558 --> 02:20:20.918
You just made that up. There's no such thing. You know, it's like,

02:20:21.138 --> 02:20:26.598
you know, if you're a comic book fan, yeah, there's alternate universes and realities and stuff.

02:20:26.758 --> 02:20:30.178
But in the real world, there's only one that we know of.

02:20:30.978 --> 02:20:37.598
And, you know, I just I don't I couldn't defend that.

02:20:38.038 --> 02:20:41.638
There's no way I could defend that. I'd be doing everything I could.

02:20:42.078 --> 02:20:45.438
If I was a Republican, I'd be doing everything I could to like,

02:20:45.718 --> 02:20:50.038
hey, man, let's get this joker out the way quick. The 25th Amendment. That's great.

02:20:50.638 --> 02:20:55.298
You know, whatever, whatever you got to do to, you know, next man up.

02:20:55.598 --> 02:20:57.458
Let's let's make that happen. Right.

02:20:58.178 --> 02:21:03.578
Because the president being the avatar of conservatism, that's not what's happening.

02:21:04.880 --> 02:21:09.180
A person that I was debating with or arguing with, whatever perspective you

02:21:09.180 --> 02:21:14.480
want to take on Facebook, basically said, yeah, I'm a conservative.

02:21:14.480 --> 02:21:19.120
I'm not a populist. And what we're seeing now is more populism.

02:21:19.120 --> 02:21:21.240
And I'm not really down with that per se.

02:21:21.440 --> 02:21:25.660
It was like, okay, you know, I get that. I respect that.

02:21:26.320 --> 02:21:33.580
But there's some accountability that has to happen too, because now the Virginia

02:21:33.580 --> 02:21:35.040
Supreme Court then came down.

02:21:35.180 --> 02:21:38.620
And I was really, really confident that the court that allowed the election

02:21:38.620 --> 02:21:45.120
to happen, because the arguments that were made before the referendum that happened

02:21:45.120 --> 02:21:48.920
in Virginia were the same ones that were made after the election.

02:21:49.520 --> 02:21:54.140
And they were trying to make the argument that, you know, it was not constitutional.

02:21:55.700 --> 02:21:57.940
Because they didn't follow the steps.

02:21:57.940 --> 02:22:02.340
And the steps is you're supposed to have a session to discuss the referendum,

02:22:02.620 --> 02:22:07.760
then an election is supposed to happen, and then you come back and push the

02:22:07.760 --> 02:22:09.620
referendum on the next ballot, right?

02:22:09.760 --> 02:22:12.860
Or if you're going to have a special election, whatever the case may be,

02:22:12.980 --> 02:22:14.580
which is what happened in Virginia.

02:22:15.872 --> 02:22:19.572
So it came down to a technical thing.

02:22:19.972 --> 02:22:25.072
Right. And, you know, that's you know, that's why you have law and you have

02:22:25.072 --> 02:22:27.652
litigators and all that stuff to try to make the case.

02:22:27.912 --> 02:22:30.872
You don't know which way to judge or a jury is going to go.

02:22:31.332 --> 02:22:37.212
So in this case, they got hung up on the fact that when the legislature first

02:22:37.212 --> 02:22:42.592
put it out there, they did it before Election Day. but early voting had started.

02:22:42.872 --> 02:22:48.352
So the court, at least four of them, said, well, technically the election was

02:22:48.352 --> 02:22:52.552
already underway, so therefore they didn't meet the deadline, right?

02:22:53.232 --> 02:22:56.952
Constitution, when it was written, didn't incorporate early voting.

02:22:56.952 --> 02:23:00.072
It said by the election date, right?

02:23:00.612 --> 02:23:07.392
But, you know, they wanted to adapt it and say, well, no, no,

02:23:08.130 --> 02:23:11.290
was early voting, it was already in place.

02:23:11.690 --> 02:23:17.170
And they were trying to say that it wasn't a fair evaluation, right?

02:23:17.330 --> 02:23:20.590
Because, you know, it might make a decision whether people were going to vote

02:23:20.590 --> 02:23:21.710
for those candidates or not.

02:23:22.010 --> 02:23:27.190
But in reality, if you were living in Virginia, people were talking about this

02:23:27.190 --> 02:23:32.130
special session happening because, you know, Donald Trump had made his phone

02:23:32.130 --> 02:23:35.970
call to Greg Abbott before that election took place.

02:23:36.870 --> 02:23:40.350
And, you know, so Texas did their thing.

02:23:40.590 --> 02:23:46.030
And so when California said, hey, we're going to go through the process to have

02:23:46.030 --> 02:23:49.070
a referendum, that's when Virginia started talking about it.

02:23:49.510 --> 02:23:54.430
So people in foreign voters would have said, huh,

02:23:55.270 --> 02:23:59.690
if the Democrats want to do that, then either I'm going to vote for Democrats

02:23:59.690 --> 02:24:06.750
to do it, I'm going to vote against Democrats not to, because I don't want that to happen, right?

02:24:07.090 --> 02:24:13.570
And actually, Virginia gained seats, Democratic seats during that election that they're talking about.

02:24:14.450 --> 02:24:19.290
So it was, they were playing with semantics.

02:24:20.130 --> 02:24:25.070
And, you know, but in the real world, people were not ignorant that this was

02:24:25.070 --> 02:24:27.490
a reality that could happen, right?

02:24:27.610 --> 02:24:32.570
That this special election that they actually were going to discuss redistricting,

02:24:33.330 --> 02:24:35.470
and they were going to bring it to a vote.

02:24:35.910 --> 02:24:38.610
The discussions were already in place to do it.

02:24:38.750 --> 02:24:41.630
It wasn't like they met in some secret room and said, aha, we're going to have

02:24:41.630 --> 02:24:44.290
a special session. You know, people were talking already.

02:24:44.930 --> 02:24:49.370
So people who were going to the polls knew that this was going to happen.

02:24:49.370 --> 02:24:51.470
And that's the one thing about it.

02:24:51.630 --> 02:24:54.750
You know, at the Supreme Court level, you can't bring in witnesses.

02:24:55.250 --> 02:24:58.390
Right. And only deal with the attorneys and the motions.

02:24:59.310 --> 02:25:04.070
And, you know, whether it's a constitutional issue or not. So they they were.

02:25:05.655 --> 02:25:11.195
Term I want to use, bereft of that opportunity to have voters testify and say,

02:25:11.735 --> 02:25:15.475
yeah, we knew that this was a reality before we voted.

02:25:16.315 --> 02:25:23.075
So they just made an assumption that people did not know and made their decision, right?

02:25:23.715 --> 02:25:27.875
So, you know, that changed everything.

02:25:27.875 --> 02:25:33.675
And plus, you know, they were already in the punishment mode because now all

02:25:33.675 --> 02:25:37.475
of a sudden, The young lady who is the state senator,

02:25:38.075 --> 02:25:42.275
the leader of the Senate, I guess the pro tem of the Senate,

02:25:42.515 --> 02:25:44.895
and I'm not looking at her name

02:25:44.895 --> 02:25:51.035
right away, but, you know, they started investigating her, right? Right.

02:25:52.815 --> 02:26:01.955
They started investigating her, you know, and and trying to insinuate that she

02:26:01.955 --> 02:26:05.755
was involved in some kind of fraud or corruption scheme or whatever.

02:26:06.595 --> 02:26:09.535
And let me see if I can pull it up real quick, her name.

02:26:10.295 --> 02:26:16.955
And because I have something in my mind, but I don't want to mispronounce her

02:26:16.955 --> 02:26:20.475
name since this is going on the record. Right. Louise Lucas.

02:26:21.175 --> 02:26:24.695
So I had the Louise in my mind. I couldn't remember the last name.

02:26:25.055 --> 02:26:30.755
So Louise Lucas, they they they they decided they're going to investigate her

02:26:30.755 --> 02:26:34.215
after this vote is taking place. Right.

02:26:34.995 --> 02:26:39.335
You know, because I think she went and got a tag or they were putting it out

02:26:39.335 --> 02:26:43.075
on the Internet that she had a tag that said 10 one on there, whatever.

02:26:44.715 --> 02:26:49.815
So, you know, the Republicans are sore, terribly sore losers, right?

02:26:50.315 --> 02:26:55.995
And that goes to that whole conversation about white fragility, right?

02:26:57.544 --> 02:27:00.804
Yeah. You know, so they already had the investigation going on.

02:27:00.904 --> 02:27:04.664
And now they're doing this victory lap saying, well, you know,

02:27:04.744 --> 02:27:07.984
that's why we didn't spend as much money in the referendum election,

02:27:07.984 --> 02:27:09.364
because we knew the Supreme Court.

02:27:09.524 --> 02:27:12.364
You didn't know that Supreme Court was going to do that. And if you did know

02:27:12.364 --> 02:27:13.864
that, then that's a problem.

02:27:14.404 --> 02:27:17.824
You know, if you're saying you knew because of confidence, a letter of law.

02:27:18.124 --> 02:27:23.524
OK, yeah, we feel you on that. But it's like usually when Republicans and they

02:27:23.524 --> 02:27:28.804
know, that means, you know, it was already in the bag that made their phone

02:27:28.804 --> 02:27:30.684
calls or whatever the case may be.

02:27:30.864 --> 02:27:36.884
And they kind of knew how the folks were going to go or put pressure on people, whatever.

02:27:38.164 --> 02:27:43.384
But, you know, in the real world, you didn't know. You just talking smack now

02:27:43.384 --> 02:27:45.964
because you got the verdict. Right.

02:27:46.444 --> 02:27:50.344
Because I was just as confident thinking because they had allowed the election

02:27:50.344 --> 02:27:56.784
to take place and that same judge tried to stop the election and the Supreme

02:27:56.784 --> 02:27:59.144
Court said, oh, they can have it.

02:27:59.624 --> 02:28:02.844
Now, the results didn't turn out the way they wanted it. So now,

02:28:03.324 --> 02:28:04.904
no, they shouldn't have had it in the first place.

02:28:05.284 --> 02:28:09.984
Well, it was a constitutional problem now. It was a constitutional problem then.

02:28:10.484 --> 02:28:12.624
And you should have stopped it then.

02:28:13.964 --> 02:28:18.104
If you were concerned about timing, right?

02:28:18.264 --> 02:28:23.544
If you were going to play the semantics game, at least four of the justices there.

02:28:24.024 --> 02:28:29.944
So anyway, that's that. And then, you know, you got folks in Alabama,

02:28:29.944 --> 02:28:34.824
it's like storming, it's like hail going on, the Capitol is literally flooding.

02:28:35.084 --> 02:28:40.184
And them folks are in there trying to draw Black people out of their congressional districts.

02:28:42.784 --> 02:28:45.264
It's like, it's just like,

02:28:46.561 --> 02:28:49.521
on Noah's Ark. The whole world is flooding.

02:28:49.981 --> 02:28:56.561
And they're trying to take away black congressional seats, right?

02:28:57.061 --> 02:28:59.761
I mean, the lengths that these people will go through.

02:29:00.521 --> 02:29:05.561
Florida, where I understand the same day, got the sister out there,

02:29:05.741 --> 02:29:09.641
Sister Nixon out there, she got a bullhorn saying, this is unconstitutional.

02:29:10.101 --> 02:29:13.481
And they just steamrolling right through, just going ahead and do it.

02:29:13.481 --> 02:29:19.201
And that's a state that you're going to see some surprising results because

02:29:19.201 --> 02:29:21.541
it was gerrymandered to the hilt anyway.

02:29:21.821 --> 02:29:26.161
It was 20 out of 28 congressional seats. They had 20 already.

02:29:26.521 --> 02:29:30.821
And in my lifetime, Florida used to be a swing state always.

02:29:31.641 --> 02:29:38.641
And over the last, I guess, 20 years, it's flipped over strictly red.

02:29:38.901 --> 02:29:41.461
But, you know, a little blue dots here, there.

02:29:42.561 --> 02:29:49.761
But it was already gerrymandered to the hilt And now they're going to make it 24 out of 28 Well,

02:29:49.941 --> 02:29:54.261
some of them districts are going to flip Because they've had some special elections

02:29:54.261 --> 02:29:59.821
in Florida And no Republican has flipped a Democratic seat.

02:30:02.201 --> 02:30:09.101
Yeah, all the either Republicans stay pat Or they lost in the special election

02:30:09.101 --> 02:30:13.221
They lost the seat And that's not just in Florida, that's nationwide.

02:30:13.701 --> 02:30:19.641
So that's kind of like why people are trending that it's going to be a big deal.

02:30:20.001 --> 02:30:25.181
And I've had two people who I respect, their political mindsets,

02:30:25.361 --> 02:30:30.941
and they, you know, they're looking at a wave or a tsunami, right?

02:30:32.201 --> 02:30:38.741
That, you know, the House and the Senate, the Democrats are going to get control of. So, you know.

02:30:40.008 --> 02:30:45.788
Even with all these games being played, because right now, if everybody stood

02:30:45.788 --> 02:30:54.228
pat, then the House, the Republicans would have a 10-seat advantage if everything stood pat.

02:30:54.548 --> 02:30:59.468
And this was a quote-unquote normal election year. But things are not normal.

02:30:59.868 --> 02:31:01.308
Things are pretty crazy.

02:31:02.548 --> 02:31:09.508
I can't say bad because, you know, the world hasn't come to the end.

02:31:09.508 --> 02:31:15.088
The sun's going to rise tomorrow as far as we know, but it is becoming a burden.

02:31:15.528 --> 02:31:20.028
You know, gas is high, which means that food prices are high.

02:31:20.588 --> 02:31:24.848
We still got this situation over there at the Strait of Hormuz where it's like

02:31:24.848 --> 02:31:27.108
fertilizer can't even get out, right?

02:31:28.288 --> 02:31:32.828
So that's going to create problems as far as food prices.

02:31:33.388 --> 02:31:38.248
So, you know, it's just because, you know, they speculate on anticipation. patient.

02:31:38.588 --> 02:31:42.168
So it's like, if you're not having fertilizer for next year's crops,

02:31:42.348 --> 02:31:46.188
it means there's going to be a scarcity and food's going to be high.

02:31:46.268 --> 02:31:51.848
So they're speculating that and prices are going to go up to try to offset that, right?

02:31:51.968 --> 02:31:58.108
If gasoline, if oil is not being shipped out, then that limits the supply that's out there.

02:31:58.628 --> 02:32:04.628
And all those OPEC nations, they're not just voting on how much it's going to

02:32:04.628 --> 02:32:05.568
impact the United States.

02:32:05.728 --> 02:32:08.188
They're looking at the whole globe.

02:32:08.948 --> 02:32:13.248
And I think one country, and I have to go back and check, but I think one country,

02:32:13.368 --> 02:32:17.828
because they saw the trend going, they said, yeah, we're going to step away

02:32:17.828 --> 02:32:22.308
from OPIC for a minute because we don't want to be a part of that.

02:32:22.728 --> 02:32:27.688
We don't want to be part of $100 and $120 a barrel. You know what I'm saying?

02:32:29.988 --> 02:32:35.708
So, yeah, it's not a great situation by any stretch of the imagination.

02:32:37.488 --> 02:32:39.108
And a lot of people are upset.

02:32:40.322 --> 02:32:46.082
You know, we got this reflecting pool that we got to paint blue and we still

02:32:46.082 --> 02:32:51.302
talking about this ballroom and whatever P Hegseth is talking about.

02:32:51.522 --> 02:32:56.522
You know, we got Sean Duffy out here doing reality TV shows and,

02:32:56.682 --> 02:33:02.442
you know, just this whole cast of characters that seem like they're totally

02:33:02.442 --> 02:33:04.522
out of touch with what's happening.

02:33:05.502 --> 02:33:11.422
And so I think even without the redistricting attempt to try to,

02:33:12.062 --> 02:33:17.782
because it's all it is is trying to mitigate the damage that's getting ready to happen.

02:33:19.222 --> 02:33:26.822
Instead of maybe doing something politically to get people on your side, you try to cheat, right?

02:33:27.322 --> 02:33:33.042
And then all of the Southern states, see, it's not a, you know,

02:33:33.222 --> 02:33:41.422
it was Kansas here and Arizona there and Montana, you know, West Virginia, something like that.

02:33:41.722 --> 02:33:44.882
Although some people consider West Virginia Southerners now,

02:33:46.002 --> 02:33:47.462
you know, it'd be one thing.

02:33:48.362 --> 02:33:52.862
Utah, something like that, you know. But it's all the Southern states.

02:33:53.042 --> 02:33:57.022
The very reason why the Voting Rights Act was even thought about,

02:33:57.702 --> 02:34:05.262
you know, the hotbed where 50% of the black population in America live, right?

02:34:06.482 --> 02:34:12.022
All them states, you know, you want to throw Texas in, you can throw them in too.

02:34:12.362 --> 02:34:19.102
So Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, although Brian Kemp,

02:34:19.342 --> 02:34:23.982
you know, he said he won't do it because voting's already started.

02:34:23.982 --> 02:34:30.302
So that's something that the next governor will probably take up in 28 for 28 elections.

02:34:30.882 --> 02:34:35.082
You know, and he might get the ball rolling before he leaves on that.

02:34:35.822 --> 02:34:37.562
Florida, you know.

02:34:38.846 --> 02:34:42.526
Tennessee. And what a mess that is in Tennessee, right?

02:34:43.626 --> 02:34:49.026
You know, they want to carve up Memphis three ways. And the ironic thing is,

02:34:49.066 --> 02:34:54.186
is that you're trying to take away Black voters' power.

02:34:54.306 --> 02:34:57.846
You want them to dilute their power. You want to crack that district.

02:34:58.246 --> 02:35:02.686
And that district has a white representative, had a white representative for almost 20 years.

02:35:04.446 --> 02:35:11.006
Here's a district that's majority black, and they've been electing Steve Cohen,

02:35:11.586 --> 02:35:16.446
a Jewish guy, for a long time. When Harold Ford Jr.

02:35:16.906 --> 02:35:22.026
Left to run for the U.S. Senate, Steve Cohen won that special election,

02:35:22.726 --> 02:35:24.786
and he's been in the position ever since.

02:35:24.986 --> 02:35:27.306
But I don't even think it was special. It was a regular election because Harold

02:35:27.306 --> 02:35:28.446
was running for the U.S. Senate.

02:35:28.686 --> 02:35:34.766
So, yeah, you know, it's like, Like, that's crazy.

02:35:35.986 --> 02:35:41.526
You know what I'm saying? It is, you know, but they, you know,

02:35:41.646 --> 02:35:44.646
the Supreme Court said Alabama should have a second district.

02:35:45.206 --> 02:35:52.386
And, of course, Alabama legislators were fighting that. They were going to defy the Supreme Court.

02:35:53.186 --> 02:36:00.306
But, you know, Brother Figures is in there. But now that this Calais decision

02:36:00.306 --> 02:36:03.466
has kicked in, now it's like, all right, we can draw that out.

02:36:04.526 --> 02:36:07.286
They're going to try to go after Sister Sewell in Mississippi.

02:36:07.286 --> 02:36:11.446
They're going to try to go after Chairman Thompson, Louisiana.

02:36:11.526 --> 02:36:13.806
They definitely want Khalil Fields out.

02:36:14.066 --> 02:36:18.126
And are they talking about trying to get Brother Carter out too?

02:36:18.446 --> 02:36:22.306
Because just like they fan out from Memphis, they want to fan out from New Orleans.

02:36:25.657 --> 02:36:29.537
So, you know, and even the way that they're doing it in Louisiana,

02:36:29.537 --> 02:36:33.057
it looks like it's still going to be one majority black district,

02:36:33.057 --> 02:36:37.637
no matter how they try to fan it out, because Baton Rouge is like right there.

02:36:37.777 --> 02:36:41.417
And so that's really the concentration of the black vote, not unless you go up to Shreveport.

02:36:44.677 --> 02:36:48.997
And, you know, I mean, it's just amazing I mean,

02:36:49.077 --> 02:36:55.477
Mississippi is even going so far as to have The house meet in the old Capitol

02:36:55.477 --> 02:36:59.717
building And those of you who are not familiar with Mississippi There is an

02:36:59.717 --> 02:37:04.057
old Capitol building and a new Capitol building The new Capitol building,

02:37:04.217 --> 02:37:06.217
which I served in, was built in 1903,

02:37:06.957 --> 02:37:12.017
So the old Capitol building, the building where Mississippi be seceded from

02:37:12.017 --> 02:37:14.817
the Union before the Civil War, right?

02:37:15.497 --> 02:37:21.977
That's the one that the House members want to get in and draw these maps to dilute Black votes.

02:37:22.277 --> 02:37:28.557
Well, it's the same Capitol in 1890 when they took away Black votes. Same building.

02:37:28.997 --> 02:37:32.537
And they want to rush in and do it that way.

02:37:33.197 --> 02:37:39.217
I mean, when they renovated the Capitol last time, after 80 years of existence,

02:37:39.577 --> 02:37:43.257
they met in the Central High School,

02:37:43.377 --> 02:37:45.757
which is downtown, which is now the Department of Education building.

02:37:46.997 --> 02:37:51.057
And if it was just a house, they still could do it. They could use the auditorium

02:37:51.057 --> 02:37:53.457
that's in there or even the gym.

02:37:53.517 --> 02:37:55.917
They still have a full gym in there, right?

02:37:56.357 --> 02:38:02.277
And so, you know, they could have improvised and made some space.

02:38:02.537 --> 02:38:04.637
For that emergency situation.

02:38:06.952 --> 02:38:12.152
But the symbolism of going to the old Capitol to do what they did in 1890 and

02:38:12.152 --> 02:38:19.052
take away black votes or black voting power to loot ballot black voting strength.

02:38:21.192 --> 02:38:26.332
You know, and when you say that it's racist, when you say that it's a vestige

02:38:26.332 --> 02:38:28.872
of white supremacy, all these folks get upset.

02:38:28.872 --> 02:38:33.492
Oh, well, my ancestors didn't own slaves and already just yada,

02:38:33.612 --> 02:38:38.012
yada, yada, all that stuff, you know, I don't know all that.

02:38:38.152 --> 02:38:42.972
I just know that you're a white person that's a Republican down with black voting

02:38:42.972 --> 02:38:44.112
strength being diluted.

02:38:44.832 --> 02:38:47.652
And I'm not down with that. And I'm going to call you out on that.

02:38:47.812 --> 02:38:50.692
Now, you want to give me your personal history and tell me all about,

02:38:50.832 --> 02:38:55.012
you know, your folks are actually from Louisiana and they went through all this

02:38:55.012 --> 02:38:56.712
stuff to themselves and persecution.

02:38:57.052 --> 02:39:00.992
That's fine and good. But you're supporting in this day and time,

02:39:01.212 --> 02:39:07.112
right now, the actions of all these Southern Republican legislators trying to

02:39:07.112 --> 02:39:09.472
dilute Black votes. You're down with that.

02:39:11.232 --> 02:39:15.252
So, you know, if you want to be only accountable for your time,

02:39:15.552 --> 02:39:21.452
then, okay, let's deal with you and your position that this is okay.

02:39:22.192 --> 02:39:27.952
And then they want to sit there and say, well, you know, the Supreme Court said it was about party.

02:39:28.132 --> 02:39:30.872
The political parties can do it. And there's a term that the,

02:39:32.591 --> 02:39:37.951
Supreme Court put out there and where they try to say that things that are political

02:39:37.951 --> 02:39:42.331
decisions that they can't make a judicial ruling on.

02:39:43.031 --> 02:39:46.091
And I just saw the term the other day and I can't remember it,

02:39:46.211 --> 02:39:49.271
but you know, if y'all listening, y'all can let me know.

02:39:49.451 --> 02:39:54.671
But so that's where they trying to couch it at. It's like political gerrymandering is okay.

02:39:55.291 --> 02:40:02.471
Well, in the South, political gerrymandering is race gerrymandering. That's what it is.

02:40:03.311 --> 02:40:08.811
Nine out of 10 black votes go to the Democratic Party optimistically,

02:40:09.691 --> 02:40:15.291
well, conservatively, we'll say eight out of 10 white votes go to the Republican Party, right?

02:40:16.691 --> 02:40:22.751
And in some of those states where it's higher than 20% white vote for the Democrats,

02:40:23.491 --> 02:40:29.471
That's when Democrats of all stripes went statewide, right? That's what happened in Georgia.

02:40:29.751 --> 02:40:33.631
That's what happened in what's the other state, I want to say.

02:40:34.471 --> 02:40:40.371
Hadn't been too many black statewide elected officials, now that I think about it. I tried twice.

02:40:41.231 --> 02:40:46.471
You know, that's just a reality of where we are, right?

02:40:47.471 --> 02:40:52.371
And, you know, like I said, when that Supreme Court map,

02:40:52.971 --> 02:40:57.291
last week when that map came out after the Supreme Court decision in the New

02:40:57.291 --> 02:41:01.551
York Times, that sounded an alarm, you know, because it's something,

02:41:01.831 --> 02:41:05.951
it's one thing to talk about it, but to visualize it. Oh, baby.

02:41:06.851 --> 02:41:08.931
So, you know, I hope that,

02:41:10.166 --> 02:41:14.086
We show up and show out on November the 3rd.

02:41:14.846 --> 02:41:18.226
And, you know, some of the messages that you can try to change everything,

02:41:18.226 --> 02:41:23.646
like I was telling Representative Clark that, you know, the British thought

02:41:23.646 --> 02:41:26.606
they were going to win the Revolutionary War because they won some early battles.

02:41:27.846 --> 02:41:31.766
And Robert Lee was feeling good about himself early in the Civil War,

02:41:31.926 --> 02:41:39.586
but as history turns out, the good guys won, or at least the guys that brought progress.

02:41:40.166 --> 02:41:45.386
Because if it wasn't, you know, we didn't win the Revolutionary Award and King

02:41:45.386 --> 02:41:48.746
Charles was coming to check out his commonwealth.

02:41:48.906 --> 02:41:51.446
That's what would have been happening last week.

02:41:52.486 --> 02:41:58.306
You know, and we'd be the Confederate States of America if the Confederacy had won.

02:41:59.386 --> 02:42:05.086
So, nonetheless, you know, I just hope that we prevail. But yeah.

02:42:05.945 --> 02:42:08.165
In light of conversations that

02:42:08.165 --> 02:42:13.105
I've been watching on social media and even engaged in, unfortunately.

02:42:14.365 --> 02:42:17.325
Because, you know, when it comes to just screwing over black people,

02:42:17.365 --> 02:42:20.965
and I think you could tell by my commentary that I was very,

02:42:21.065 --> 02:42:26.445
very upset and very emotional about it last week.

02:42:26.445 --> 02:42:34.105
And I try to, especially now that I'm older, I try to be more, I don't know,

02:42:35.085 --> 02:42:40.525
more, I guess, you know, more calm when I make my arguments,

02:42:40.745 --> 02:42:44.265
try to take the emotionalism out.

02:42:44.265 --> 02:42:54.965
But when you've been dealing with this all your life, and I made a choice to make politics my life,

02:42:55.085 --> 02:43:00.025
it just gets frustrating, you know, that we just can't.

02:43:00.905 --> 02:43:06.485
It's just like roaches, right, or mice. You know, once you see one or two,

02:43:07.125 --> 02:43:13.885
then it's like you know that there's an infestation, and you do your best to get rid of them.

02:43:14.265 --> 02:43:18.865
You know, and most of the time you can, but it's just, you know,

02:43:19.065 --> 02:43:23.245
that if you see one raises ugly head, then, you know, there's a bunch out there.

02:43:24.425 --> 02:43:29.285
And that's kind of where I feel about racism, white supremacy in America is

02:43:29.285 --> 02:43:33.685
just like now we have an administration that embraces that.

02:43:35.040 --> 02:43:38.240
And so people are just coming out of woodwork and they're feeling frisky and

02:43:38.240 --> 02:43:41.460
free and they're just saying whatever they want to say, you know,

02:43:41.560 --> 02:43:42.940
and act in any kind of way.

02:43:43.400 --> 02:43:47.100
And that's why you've got all this activity after that Supreme Court came.

02:43:47.880 --> 02:43:49.520
Because people are, like I said,

02:43:49.620 --> 02:43:51.800
feeling frisky and free and they're going to do what they want to do.

02:43:52.760 --> 02:43:58.580
You know, but, you know, I made my appeal last week to just leave us alone.

02:43:59.860 --> 02:44:05.880
If you just let things go naturally, it's going to happen.

02:44:06.420 --> 02:44:12.480
You know, it may turn out like basketball, where once you let black folks in,

02:44:12.600 --> 02:44:16.200
we kind of took it over, or even football for that matter, right?

02:44:16.800 --> 02:44:21.160
But, you know, sometimes, like in baseball, maybe not.

02:44:21.580 --> 02:44:25.520
You know, most of the black players that play in Major League Baseball now are

02:44:25.520 --> 02:44:26.740
not from the United States.

02:44:27.780 --> 02:44:31.180
Most of the soccer players are not from the United States. So,

02:44:31.300 --> 02:44:37.220
you know, if you just let things happen naturally, things are going to happen.

02:44:38.100 --> 02:44:41.720
Talent is talent. They're going to get picked, and they're going to play,

02:44:42.420 --> 02:44:44.420
right? Or at least make the team.

02:44:47.080 --> 02:44:51.260
So I just wish people looked at politics that way, but politics is,

02:44:51.540 --> 02:44:53.520
you know, that's all about power.

02:44:54.400 --> 02:44:58.700
One thing about entertainment, But it's a whole nother thing about power.

02:44:58.980 --> 02:45:05.240
And so, you know, these folks, until racism is actually a crime,

02:45:05.620 --> 02:45:07.700
they're going to do what they want to do.

02:45:08.040 --> 02:45:13.040
They're going to try to skew it in a way where they always maintain power.

02:45:13.420 --> 02:45:17.520
They've had to cede some political power. They're trying to figure out how they

02:45:17.520 --> 02:45:25.060
can unseat it, right, how they can dilute it even more. But the economic power,

02:45:25.160 --> 02:45:27.800
that's a whole nother conversation, right?

02:45:28.140 --> 02:45:32.780
And that was really the goal of black politics was to build black wealth.

02:45:33.978 --> 02:45:39.158
I don't think it's a secret, but that was the objective.

02:45:39.658 --> 02:45:44.298
If we could get political power, then we can build economic power.

02:45:45.878 --> 02:45:49.018
And, you know, because we actually tried to do it in reverse.

02:45:49.818 --> 02:45:56.038
And because of the political power, the power of the state, black businesses got burned down, right?

02:45:56.338 --> 02:45:59.858
Or black people that were trying to lead an exodus got put in jail.

02:46:00.598 --> 02:46:09.578
But, or assassinated, right? And so we were like, okay, let's get some basic things down.

02:46:09.718 --> 02:46:17.498
Let's be able to vote. Let's be able to go to a restaurant and sit at the counter.

02:46:17.658 --> 02:46:20.758
Let's go to a department store through the front door, right?

02:46:20.838 --> 02:46:23.338
Just basic stuff. Let's sit anywhere we want on the bus.

02:46:23.878 --> 02:46:27.478
Let's go to the public swimming pool or the beach. You know,

02:46:27.518 --> 02:46:31.038
it's just certain basic things we wanted first. And then once we got that,

02:46:31.118 --> 02:46:34.978
it's like, okay, now the next step is to vote, right?

02:46:35.458 --> 02:46:37.658
And then housing, right?

02:46:38.218 --> 02:46:42.398
So, I mean, you know, we had to do all these things in steps.

02:46:43.518 --> 02:46:51.738
And we had to bum rush poor Lyndon Johnson to try to get as much as we could while he was at office.

02:46:51.958 --> 02:46:56.258
Because he only served one term, as fate would have it. So, yeah.

02:46:57.638 --> 02:47:04.518
You know, but, you know, if you just let us do our thing, we'll be OK and a

02:47:04.518 --> 02:47:06.598
nation would be better for it. Right.

02:47:07.158 --> 02:47:17.458
So, you know, I made my appeal, but I wanted to read something and close it out with this.

02:47:18.178 --> 02:47:26.318
This was George White, who was the only black congressman in Congress after

02:47:26.318 --> 02:47:27.818
Reconstruction. Right.

02:47:28.478 --> 02:47:31.238
For a point. And he left.

02:47:32.636 --> 02:47:41.356
In 1901. And so I'm just going to read his conclusion, which is much more eloquent

02:47:41.356 --> 02:47:46.676
than my ranting and raving last week, but it gets to the same point.

02:47:46.816 --> 02:47:51.656
And so some of the language, of course, I will use is dated to 1901.

02:47:52.576 --> 02:47:58.516
But he was concluding his farewell address with this. Mr.

02:47:58.676 --> 02:48:04.156
Chairman, before concluding my remarks, I want to submit a brief recipe for

02:48:04.156 --> 02:48:07.236
the solution of the so-called American Negro problem.

02:48:07.416 --> 02:48:12.896
He asks no special favors, but simply demands that he be given the same chance

02:48:12.896 --> 02:48:16.676
for existence, for earning a livelihood,

02:48:17.196 --> 02:48:22.876
for raising himself in the scales of manhood and womanhood that are accorded

02:48:22.876 --> 02:48:24.536
to kindred nationalities.

02:48:24.956 --> 02:48:26.536
Treat him as a man.

02:48:27.256 --> 02:48:32.056
Go into his home and learn of his social conditions. Learn of his cares,

02:48:32.516 --> 02:48:36.616
his troubles, and his hopes for the future. Gain his confidence.

02:48:37.536 --> 02:48:41.636
Open the doors of industry to him. Let the word Negro, colored,

02:48:41.636 --> 02:48:46.916
and black be stricken from all the organizations enumerated in the Federation of Labor.

02:48:48.183 --> 02:48:54.623
Help him to overcome his weakness, punish the crime-committing class by the

02:48:54.623 --> 02:48:59.783
courts of the land, and measure the standard of the race by its best material.

02:49:00.283 --> 02:49:07.823
Cease to mold prejudicial and unjust public sentiment against them.

02:49:07.823 --> 02:49:13.583
And my word for it, he will learn to support, hold up the hands of,

02:49:13.703 --> 02:49:17.483
and join in with that political party, that institution,

02:49:17.923 --> 02:49:22.203
whether secular or religious, in every community where he lives,

02:49:22.303 --> 02:49:26.923
which is destined to do the greatest good for the greatest number.

02:49:27.823 --> 02:49:33.743
Obliterate race hatred, party prejudice, and help us to achieve nobler ends,

02:49:34.463 --> 02:49:40.143
greater results, and become satisfactory citizens to our brother in white.

02:49:41.316 --> 02:49:47.296
This, Mr. Chairman, is perhaps the Negro's temporary farewell to the American Congress.

02:49:47.576 --> 02:49:53.016
But let me say, Phoenix-like, he will rise up someday and come again.

02:49:53.336 --> 02:49:57.736
These parting words are in behalf of an outraged, heartbroken,

02:49:58.296 --> 02:50:05.456
bruised, and bleeding, but God-fearing people, faithful, industrious, loyal people,

02:50:06.256 --> 02:50:10.616
rising people, full of potential force. Mr.

02:50:10.736 --> 02:50:15.936
Chairman, in the trial of Lord Bacon, when the court disturbed the counsel for the defendant,

02:50:16.736 --> 02:50:21.036
Sir Walter Raleigh raised himself up to his full height and addressing the court

02:50:21.036 --> 02:50:26.336
said, Sir, I am pleading for the life of a human being.

02:50:26.816 --> 02:50:34.516
The only apology that I have to make for the earnestness with which I have spoken

02:50:34.516 --> 02:50:37.316
is that I am pleading for the life,

02:50:37.776 --> 02:50:44.096
the liberty, the future happiness, and manhood suffrage for one-eighth of the

02:50:44.096 --> 02:50:46.976
entire population of the United States.

02:50:48.156 --> 02:50:53.156
Ladies and gentlemen, Brother White's, Congressman White's remarks,

02:50:53.816 --> 02:51:01.156
even though they were made in 1901, are salient 125 years later.

02:51:01.736 --> 02:51:08.956
And it just goes back to the theme from last week. Just leave us alone. Let us thrive.

02:51:09.676 --> 02:51:13.296
Let us go forth and do what we want to do.

02:51:13.936 --> 02:51:19.996
And this country will be great. This country will be everything that it's supposed to be.

02:51:21.016 --> 02:51:24.176
All right, on that note, ladies and gentlemen, let me end it.

02:51:24.476 --> 02:51:27.856
Thank you all for listening, and until next time.