Message, Justice, & Coalition Featuring Lewis Williams, Ashley T. Martin and Darius Jones

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

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If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

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First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

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Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

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truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

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Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

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listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

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Third, go to the website, momenteric.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

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leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

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Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

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Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

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and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to Another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And today we got a jam-packed show. I have three guests, two men and a lady.

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Who are going to talk about the world that we live in and kind of highlight

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their expertise, Right.

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So one guest has been a ad executive, very successful ad executive.

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And so I kind of wanted to pick his brain about messaging.

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And then one guest has been active in equality and justice through the nonprofit sector.

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And she has a new project that I wanted to highlight.

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And then the final guest was a blessing to get on, discuss about some unsettling

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stuff that is going on right now in the country.

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And based on his background and expertise,

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he is probably the perfect person to address our community with a perspective

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about what's happening and give us some encouragement. along the way.

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So I hope that when you hear these guests, that you will receive them the way that I received them.

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And I hope that it is enlightening as well as entertaining for you.

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Because entertainment doesn't have to be ha-ha, funny-funny,

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sing a song, make a dance. I mean.

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Maybe I'm a nerd, or as we like to say now in the Black community,

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a blerd, but I think intelligence is entertaining.

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I think having people who are dedicated and committed to fighting for us and

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are articulate, that's hard to say, actually,

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in expressing that is very entertaining.

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So I hope that you enjoy the show. And then, of course, I've got my say-so about

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a couple of things to kind of close it out.

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But anyway, let's go ahead and get this show started.

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Oh, before I do that, guys, we need 20,000 subscribers.

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Again, I'm going to bug y'all until we get there.

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And it's, you know, I mean, I'm not mad or anything. I just,

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you know, we need to do that because there's some things I want to do,

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as I've expressed before.

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And, you know, I don't want to get people's hopes up and then we don't have

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the resources to make it happen.

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So let's get those resources. Let's get those subscribers.

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You can go to Patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming and make that happen.

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OK, now that I've made my plug, it is time to kick this off.

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And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Music.

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Thanks, Erik. Newark Mayor Ras Baraka sued law enforcement officials after

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being wrongly arrested at a detention center, claiming the arrest was politically

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motivated by the Trump administration.

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Eight people were injured in Boulder, Colorado, when a man threw incendiary

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devices into a crowd during a demonstration related to the Israeli hostages in Gaza.

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President Trump issued a travel ban targeting citizens from 12 countries,

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citing security concerns.

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The U.S. Supreme Court allowed the Trump administration to revoke temporary

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legal status for hundreds of migrants from Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti, and Nicaragua.

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Tulsa's mayor announced a $100 million trust to address the impacts of the 1921

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massacre of African Americans.

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Elon Musk publicly criticized the recent congressional tax and spending bill,

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which extends Trump-era tax cuts, calling it a disgusting abomination that will

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worsen the federal deficit.

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A federal appeals court upheld a block on Trump's executive order to dismantle

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the Education Department and required a reinstatement of laid-off employees. A D.C.

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Judge dismissed Democrats' lawsuit over Trump's executive order asserting control

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of federal agencies, ruling no imminent harm existed. A U.S.

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Judge halted the Trump administration's abrupt closure of the Job Corps program,

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siding with contractors in a lawsuit alleging legal violations.

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Flooding in Nigeria's Niger state has resulted in 200 deaths and the displacement

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of thousands of residents.

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The Department of Homeland Security removed a list of sanctuary jurisdictions

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from its website after criticisms from the National Sheriff's Association.

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Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico have reached 823, which constitutes 75%

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of all the cases nationwide.

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And World War II veteran Anna Mae Robertson, the last surviving member of the

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all-black, all-female 6888 Battalion, passed away at the age of 101.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been A Moment of News.

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Music.

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All right, thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it's time for

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our guest, Lewis Williams.

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Experienced creative Lewis Williams has had successful careers at iconic agencies,

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Leo Burnett, Burrell Communications Group, and most recently,

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Weber Shanwick, where he held the position of EVP Head of Brand Impact.

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Having over three decades of total market and multicultural consumer marketing experience,

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he's partnered with CMOs of some of the world's best-known brands to create

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award-winning creative and drive strategic and emotional connections to their customers.

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Lewis has deep experience working in automotive, food service,

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beverage, technology, financial, entertainment, and consumer goods.

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Among those that he has represented are Toyota, McDonald's, Ancestry,

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the Coca-Cola Company, Google, the U.S.

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Army, Walt Disney World, American Airlines, Disney, and Procter & Gamble.

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Lewis has been recognized as one of Adweek's Creative 100, the ad club of New

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York's icons, rock stars and innovators.

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Winner of creative accolades from The One Show, Communications Arts,

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London International Awards, Kelly Awards, New York Festivals,

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Silo Awards, and serves on the Creative Review Committee for the Ad Council.

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He previously served as a PR cons juror and was a juror member of ConsLion70.

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He was also selected as an inaugural fellow for the Visiting Industry Professionals

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Fellowship at DePaul University College of Communications.

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Lewis is an advocate for significant representation for diversity for creatives

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in the communications industry.

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As part of his commitment to diversity and mentorship, he is an instructor for

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the One School for African-American Students sponsored by the One Club for Creativity.

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Lewis is a distinguished alumnus of the Kent State School of Design,

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where he established the Lewis and Donna Williams Scholarship Fund.

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The funds are dedicated to those students needing financial assistance.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Lewis Williams.

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Music.

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All right. Lewis Williams. How you doing, sir? You doing good?

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Erik, I'm doing fantastic, sir. How are you? I'm doing fine, brother.

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I greatly appreciate you taking the time.

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I saw you on a documentary talking about the history of advertising in America

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and how Chicago played a major influence.

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And you were one of the people that was highlighted in that documentary.

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And I said, I got to get this brother on because I need to pick his brain about

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some things, especially in the political world.

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But you'll you'll understand where I'm going with that once we get the interview going.

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So one of the things I like to do is start off the interview with some icebreakers.

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So the first icebreaker is a quote. So I want you to respond to this quote.

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There is no better story than life itself.

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What does that quote mean to you?

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Oh, wow. You know, that's an author. Oh, I think that was me.

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You know, what that means to me is like in this world of advertising,

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we all look for ideas, right?

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And we all heard authenticity, authenticity, right?

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And so often we try to find these things don't exist.

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But when you think about how many billions and billions of people there are

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in this planet, that's billions and billions of stories.

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So if you're looking to the answer of anything, it has just look at life and it'll tell you that.

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Our life and our experiences, even your own life.

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So often advertising where you're looking for ideas is like maybe the idea is

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from your family meeting every Thanksgiving and the stories around that table.

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It could be from your brother and your partner at the barbershop and what those conversations.

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Just look at life. Life has all the answers. So there's no need to create made up stories.

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Yeah. All right. So give me a number between one and 20.

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Sweet 16. All right. 16.

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What's a misconception people often have about your beliefs and values? Yeah.

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Hmm. A misconception I think that people have of me.

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Hmm. And then just let's be honest, right?

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I think people may think that I'm a lot more confident than I am,

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to be honest with you. You know what I mean?

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People may think that in their head that I'm extremely more successful than I feel.

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So it's not about imposter syndrome. It's really about, to me, about being humble.

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So it's sort of like that's that misconception i think that people think that

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hey he kind of has it all together he's super fan you know super successful

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and all those kinds of things and

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i'm just just really the same guy from macon georgia you know so that's pretty

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much it yeah so you know macon georgia native and you've been living in chicago

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from what i understand for 40 years.

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And I kind of did the reverse. I was born in Chicago, raised there.

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And then I went to Mississippi, spent 34 years in Mississippi.

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Now I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. So, and part of my job, my regular job,

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I have to go to Macon quite a bit.

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So I'm somewhat familiar with where you come from and how legendary that city is.

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But I, but I want to touch on follow up and

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it works well with my next question because you talked about you

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know how people may misconceive you as being confident or

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I'll throw in a word cocky right because that's usually when

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they talk about us black men it's like the uppity word shows up right but I

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but I know that you're not because you've you've dedicated a lot of time to

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mentoring young people and so one of the one of the questions I wanted to ask

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you is why is mentoring so important to you?

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I tell you, you know, I don't know if you heard the program called Upward Bound,

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but you heard Upward Bound, right?

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So Upward Bound is for, what is it? Sort of like poor kids.

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I was a part of the program. I didn't know I was poor. I didn't feel I was poor.

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You know, we, mother and father provided for us, but really it was really about

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getting Black kids and stressing upon them the importance of an education after high school.

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And that program was instrumental to me.

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And when I was in high school, the individuals that I met.

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And the world that that program showed me really made the difference in my life.

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And not only my life, that's, you know, you talk about Macon,

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there's a young man named Virgil Adams.

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He's a big time attorney in Macon, Georgia. He and I was in Upward Bound together.

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And so, you know, Angela Bassett, a lot of people like that.

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But that program just showed me the importance of help and how people that mentored

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me and showed me the way, showed me that life was much bigger or could be much

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bigger if I chose beyond Macon, Georgia.

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And that left such an impact on me. So I had to always give back.

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And the thing about it, Eric, I've always been a mentor when I look back at myself.

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Even in the Upbound program, once I graduated, I came back as a counselor.

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So I think it's just in my blood to be a mentor, you know, maybe because of

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my mother who always was helping the community, you know.

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So I think that's just in my blood. And I never call it mentorship.

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It's just I just think just try to help someone, you know what I mean?

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Because you're fortunate for certain things, pass it on.

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And it was never a realization. It was just something I always believed in.

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So it's just I've been I've been that's just been me. That's a part of my personality.

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Part of my brand, so-called brand, you know. So it's just very important.

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Yeah, I have a lot of good memories with Upward Bound.

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When I was a legislator, every summer I would participate in the Upward Bound

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program at Jackson State. I would teach.

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I would literally have a mock, a legislative session with the Upward Bound students.

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It'd be like two days and they would go through the process of electing a speaker

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of the house and drafting legislation and all that stuff.

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So I don't know if there's any success stories and come out of that.

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But hopefully, at least if anything, they became better citizens because of

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that. You know what I'm saying?

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And that's all it has to be. It doesn't have to be that you became anything.

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Right. It's just if you did, you do a little bit better.

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Did you do something up to high school? And if you did that,

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I'm quite sure you made an impact. You had to.

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So speaking about impact, talk about the scholarship fund you and your wife started.

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Okay. So that goes back to, I went to Kent State, you know, and it was a really

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good experience because I went north. I had never been north before.

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So anyway, with Kent State, I had a really good experience there.

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That gave me my degree in graphic design that took me on to advertising.

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And I was just like, hey, what can I do, again, to put something in place to

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help students that may need a little financial help?

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So I wanted to put something in place there. I'm a distinguished alumni of Kent State.

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And I said, what can I have that could be a legacy for me that played into who I am?

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So my wife and I, hey, let's give every semester, every quarter,

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let's make sure. We worked out something with Kent State.

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Of course, universities, they always call in the alumni and say,

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hey, give something. So I said, yeah, I don't mind giving something.

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And what I did is put a stipulation in there that it has to go to a student

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that needed financial help.

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And to be honest with you, first I specified a student of color.

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But you know, in today's environment, they had to reword that.

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And I said, okay, end of the day, long as there's a student that needs financial help.

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And when you think about that, it doesn't really matter if you're a person of

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color or not. If you're struggling as a student and you love art and you love

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advertising and you love design, you deserve a chance.

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So I said, OK, that's fine with me. If you need that, I just want to help an

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individual that may need help.

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Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's always good to give back, man, because,

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you know, I don't have a scholarship in my name yet.

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My mom has one at West Virginia State where she went.

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And, uh, you know, so that, you know, that, that legacy, but I,

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but I try to do as much as I can.

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And I think it's important for us.

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It doesn't matter what college you went to that, you know, that college gave

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you an advantage and, and, and altered your life in a way where you were successful

00:19:07.583 --> 00:19:10.383
and you want to see other people benefit from that.

00:19:10.683 --> 00:19:13.503
So I commend you and your wife for doing it now.

00:19:13.863 --> 00:19:17.023
Thank you. Eric, I just want to say your platform that you have now.

00:19:17.183 --> 00:19:19.843
I mean, wow. I mean, that's a big help.

00:19:20.103 --> 00:19:23.123
So, you know what I mean? People listening to things, you don't know who's lost

00:19:23.123 --> 00:19:26.943
out there, right? Who, who needs that free advice. So I just want to commend

00:19:26.943 --> 00:19:27.883
you for what you're doing.

00:19:28.123 --> 00:19:30.803
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Some people,

00:19:31.288 --> 00:19:35.368
Some 20 years ago, you worked on an ad campaign for the National Underground

00:19:35.368 --> 00:19:36.828
Railroad Freedom Center.

00:19:37.708 --> 00:19:41.248
Now, that's that's the one in Cincinnati, right? Yes, sir. Yes,

00:19:41.268 --> 00:19:45.108
sir. That's the one in Cincinnati. It's a beautiful, beautiful place.

00:19:45.508 --> 00:19:51.088
Why does that campaign stand out to you? And do you think that ad still has relevance today?

00:19:51.708 --> 00:19:57.148
Well, you know, again, what we talked about, there's no better story than life itself.

00:19:57.148 --> 00:20:00.568
And that campaign is just really special and

00:20:00.568 --> 00:20:03.708
it always will be for me and just underground

00:20:03.708 --> 00:20:07.268
railroad freedom center what's that campaign we

00:20:07.268 --> 00:20:11.028
ran that campaign before it even existed that was

00:20:11.028 --> 00:20:15.088
to really it was just i remember going and we were talking about where it was

00:20:15.088 --> 00:20:20.768
going to be and you see this empty space by the river in cincinnati and we was

00:20:20.768 --> 00:20:24.068
doing this campaign where we had to first call attention to people that the

00:20:24.068 --> 00:20:29.628
power of one person to make a difference when it comes to, you know, racial injustice.

00:20:30.008 --> 00:20:33.808
You know, so often we feel intimidated. It's like, wow, you're in the room.

00:20:34.308 --> 00:20:38.528
You're the only person, you know, I mean, you know, the person that something

00:20:38.528 --> 00:20:40.108
is said about is not in that room.

00:20:40.268 --> 00:20:43.068
Do you have the power to speak up for that person who's not there?

00:20:43.368 --> 00:20:47.988
And there's a lot of power in that. You know, if you with the boys and the boys

00:20:47.988 --> 00:20:51.948
are saying certain things and you say, hey, fellas, that's not right.

00:20:52.108 --> 00:20:55.768
And all eyes are going to look back at you, Erik. That takes a lot of strength.

00:20:56.228 --> 00:21:00.888
But at the end of the day, probably you said it out loud, but it's two or three

00:21:00.888 --> 00:21:04.048
other brothers in there that really felt the same way. But they went with the crowd.

00:21:04.248 --> 00:21:06.528
So that was the power of one campaign.

00:21:06.788 --> 00:21:11.008
And we used all these different racial scenarios. We did, you know,

00:21:11.448 --> 00:21:15.568
black man walking in a store, a black woman, a black man on the elevator.

00:21:15.888 --> 00:21:19.648
We we flipped it where we had, you know, kids in high school,

00:21:19.808 --> 00:21:21.168
all the black kids sit together.

00:21:21.308 --> 00:21:24.688
Right. We did one where the white girl came and sit with the black kids and

00:21:24.688 --> 00:21:25.508
the black sister's like.

00:21:26.148 --> 00:21:29.468
What's this white girl doing here? So it could be reversed as well.

00:21:29.668 --> 00:21:34.008
So we did a lot of things about that and the power of one voice.

00:21:34.108 --> 00:21:38.688
But why it's special was just letting people know why the National Underground

00:21:38.688 --> 00:21:41.368
Freedom Center needed to be.

00:21:41.548 --> 00:21:46.448
It needed to exist because there was a lot of work that had to be done.

00:21:46.448 --> 00:21:51.748
And we wanted to show it in everyday situations and also let you know you have

00:21:51.748 --> 00:21:53.348
the power to make a difference.

00:21:53.768 --> 00:21:58.648
Yeah. And like I said, it's a beautiful facility. One of the cool things they've

00:21:58.648 --> 00:22:02.968
had, they had there was a game that you could play.

00:22:03.188 --> 00:22:09.028
And you had to try to escape and use the railroad and go as far as you can.

00:22:09.188 --> 00:22:13.368
I made it all the way to Canada. So I was like, that was encouraging for me.

00:22:13.508 --> 00:22:15.048
I made it out the country.

00:22:15.968 --> 00:22:21.928
So why is advertising to black consumers so unique?

00:22:21.928 --> 00:22:25.788
Speak because we are because we

00:22:25.788 --> 00:22:28.748
are we we you know it's always

00:22:28.748 --> 00:22:34.108
something different by us we take just even just go back we we come back and

00:22:34.108 --> 00:22:42.668
everything we we touch we put our signature on you know when you go i know twitter

00:22:42.668 --> 00:22:48.548
doesn't exist anymore but go even today you know So we created this thing called Black Twitter.

00:22:49.568 --> 00:22:50.988
Our language, right?

00:22:51.088 --> 00:22:53.568
There's the English language, but what?

00:22:53.688 --> 00:22:57.108
We got our special, you know, call it Ebonics.

00:22:57.248 --> 00:23:00.268
But Ebonics is a language that's very unique.

00:23:00.948 --> 00:23:05.248
The way we communicate to each other and how we communicate,

00:23:05.408 --> 00:23:09.668
we're just a very special, unique community.

00:23:09.848 --> 00:23:15.568
And it was based off this unique situation. It was very dire, our situation, right?

00:23:15.688 --> 00:23:18.848
Coming over as slaves and blah, blah, blah, blah. We all know our history.

00:23:19.168 --> 00:23:23.268
But through that, we created such a unique culture.

00:23:24.392 --> 00:23:33.532
That just doesn't exist anywhere. And it's continually is one of the most creative cultures ever created.

00:23:33.652 --> 00:23:38.592
And that's why so many people plug in and borrow from it.

00:23:38.812 --> 00:23:43.472
And I'm being nice when I say borrow as opposed to.

00:23:44.972 --> 00:23:50.012
Right. And I think it's really important for us to be acknowledged,

00:23:50.012 --> 00:23:54.172
because even though all of those we have this great culture,

00:23:54.612 --> 00:23:57.732
no one, especially in media, will look back upon us.

00:23:57.732 --> 00:24:05.352
Because I'm young, old enough to remember when there was no black shows on television.

00:24:06.152 --> 00:24:09.712
You know, the black athletes, who mattered?

00:24:10.412 --> 00:24:13.612
Didn't matter how talented you were as a musician, an artist,

00:24:13.812 --> 00:24:16.352
or a doctor, a lawyer, always was hard.

00:24:16.432 --> 00:24:20.272
So you never saw yourself in unique situations.

00:24:20.872 --> 00:24:23.752
So when you advertise to black people, one of the things that worked,

00:24:23.832 --> 00:24:26.552
when I worked at Burrell Advertising, what I always want to do now,

00:24:27.332 --> 00:24:30.592
is to show your life and reflect that.

00:24:30.752 --> 00:24:37.092
So some little young boy, some little young girl will see Simone flipping in

00:24:37.092 --> 00:24:39.552
the air and want to be that one day.

00:24:40.212 --> 00:24:46.132
And to tell those stories. And advertising is a media platform where millions

00:24:46.132 --> 00:24:48.572
of people get a chance to see that message.

00:24:49.552 --> 00:24:54.192
And I just think I was very fortunate to be in an industry that allows me to

00:24:54.192 --> 00:24:58.252
do that and use that platform to use brands, whether it's McDonald's,

00:24:58.572 --> 00:25:03.172
P&G, Toyota, whatever, to celebrate that.

00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:07.800
So that's kind of why that's why it's very important. It's important to see it.

00:25:08.040 --> 00:25:11.520
You see it all the time. You got to see it to be it, you know,

00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:15.060
and that's that's really important. Very extremely important.

00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:19.340
Even today, even today, when we see the stories.

00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:24.040
But what stories are we seeing? Because think about the deity trial right now.

00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.520
Negative, negative, negative, negative, negative.

00:25:26.780 --> 00:25:30.720
Put that in quotes. But where are the positive stories? And there's so many

00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:35.340
positive stories out there as well. and the media always want to push that negative

00:25:35.340 --> 00:25:37.360
that falls right into it, right?

00:25:37.860 --> 00:25:41.780
So it's important for brands to advertise so we get a chance to,

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.520
we call this thing positive realism. We get a chance to display positive realism

00:25:46.520 --> 00:25:51.640
through advertising, you know, and that's why I find this thought so important. Yeah.

00:25:52.260 --> 00:25:57.620
All right, so this is a political show, so I'm going to pick your brain on this one.

00:25:58.300 --> 00:26:04.700
If I decided to run for president of the United States in 2028 and I hired you

00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:08.620
to put together an ad campaign for that effort, how would you approach that?

00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:15.500
Wow. That would be interesting because we know what all the barriers are going to be.

00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:20.160
The first one, we already had one. That's a black man already.

00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:25.840
And we all know it's going to be pretty difficult. And people's minds say,

00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:26.840
we've done that already.

00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:30.640
Right. Do we want to go back to that as well as, you know, today's environment?

00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:37.240
So we have to kind of find out like what makes you unique? Eric, you are a black man.

00:26:38.020 --> 00:26:39.860
Yes, we're not going to run away from that.

00:26:41.380 --> 00:26:45.880
We're going to find out what makes you connect to people. What is so we have

00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.300
to probe you and say, Erik, what are you different?

00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:51.200
What how are you going to make my life better?

00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.520
How can you know how are you going to relate to people that may not like you?

00:26:57.500 --> 00:27:00.560
What is your plan to make the world better?

00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:04.320
So we have to really got, before I can tell you what we're going to do,

00:27:04.560 --> 00:27:09.600
we got to first really understand you and your vision and how we're going to

00:27:09.600 --> 00:27:13.740
take that vision and lay that out to our, you know,

00:27:14.800 --> 00:27:16.360
hopefully potential voters.

00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:20.740
How are we going to position ourselves? And then we are also going to have a

00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:23.160
look around the field around you. Who else is running?

00:27:23.740 --> 00:27:28.340
It may be another black man running, another black woman running,

00:27:28.580 --> 00:27:29.780
a Hispanic person running.

00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:34.880
And, of course, Caucasian male and female is running. So we've got to look at the entire field.

00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:39.960
But at the end of the day, you know, they're going to lean into who's the candidate

00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:46.500
they feel they can trust their present and their future with. Yeah.

00:27:47.510 --> 00:27:50.630
So I couldn't tell you what that's going to be. You know what I mean?

00:27:50.790 --> 00:27:53.710
But that's how I would go at it before we do anything.

00:27:53.910 --> 00:27:57.150
We got to have that strategy. We got to have that strategy.

00:27:57.510 --> 00:28:03.810
So I've interviewed some people who are really good at storytelling.

00:28:05.270 --> 00:28:10.830
And that was the one thing that they were stressing, especially last year during

00:28:10.830 --> 00:28:17.710
the presidential campaign, that they felt that certain candidates were not good storytellers.

00:28:18.010 --> 00:28:26.430
Right. And that may have cost them or at that point made them struggle during the campaign.

00:28:27.430 --> 00:28:30.870
And what you described sounds like the same thing, that you want,

00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:34.730
you just talk about how important it is to tell a story.

00:28:35.130 --> 00:28:38.590
Yes. So we have to first know who you are to tell that story.

00:28:38.590 --> 00:28:40.730
And we have to tell that story where it's relatable.

00:28:41.310 --> 00:28:46.670
You know, and that was one of my leaders in Upward Bound, you know,

00:28:46.730 --> 00:28:50.170
one of the directors of Upward Bound, his name was Bobby Jones.

00:28:51.230 --> 00:28:55.450
PhD, three or four degrees, smart as a will.

00:28:56.170 --> 00:29:02.990
What I love about Mr. Jones, he can come to the students and have a conversation with us.

00:29:03.790 --> 00:29:08.810
Then we would see him go to Atlanta and dress, you know, representatives,

00:29:09.090 --> 00:29:11.770
and he would still be the same Bobby Jones.

00:29:12.530 --> 00:29:19.750
But he had this incredible way of being relatable to the audience he was talking

00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:21.930
to without flip-flopping.

00:29:22.870 --> 00:29:27.670
And it's sort of like, sometimes that's just a gif, right?

00:29:28.651 --> 00:29:33.071
You know what I mean? Sometimes it's just a gift. And so, but it is important

00:29:33.071 --> 00:29:34.591
to say, what is your story?

00:29:35.311 --> 00:29:40.411
How do we want to present that story? And why should I even care about your story?

00:29:41.251 --> 00:29:44.131
You know, and how can your story be my story?

00:29:45.131 --> 00:29:50.931
And it is about storytelling. And that's one of the present things we're in

00:29:50.931 --> 00:29:56.331
right now is that we have an individual that makes things very simple.

00:29:57.271 --> 00:30:00.091
You know he brands everything when you say

00:30:00.091 --> 00:30:04.511
big beautiful bill now it has

00:30:04.511 --> 00:30:10.671
a flow to it big beautiful bill that rolls off the tongue there's a rhythm to

00:30:10.671 --> 00:30:18.271
it it's big fantastic it's beautiful so versus oh we got this bill bill number

00:30:18.271 --> 00:30:23.111
3248 bill you know it's like huh what huh he broke that down.

00:30:23.271 --> 00:30:27.191
And it's really interesting that I want to be on one of these talk shows and

00:30:27.191 --> 00:30:30.511
say, stop calling it the big, beautiful bill. It is not.

00:30:31.631 --> 00:30:36.591
It's a big, ugly bill. You know what I mean? But people who's criticizing the

00:30:36.591 --> 00:30:39.071
bill call it big, beautiful bill.

00:30:39.471 --> 00:30:43.491
So even though I'm criticizing it, I'm still calling it the big, beautiful bill.

00:30:43.671 --> 00:30:47.451
And a person just from a storyteller that's only picking up certain things are

00:30:47.451 --> 00:30:49.251
only hearing big, beautiful bill.

00:30:49.751 --> 00:30:52.611
And you know what I mean? So This person has really understood,

00:30:52.611 --> 00:30:57.751
keep the story simple, keep it relatable, and it'll work for you.

00:30:57.911 --> 00:31:02.771
So it's very elementary and it's very basic, very fundamental.

00:31:03.331 --> 00:31:08.411
It can be very powerful for people who understand it and is very consistent with it.

00:31:08.511 --> 00:31:13.691
And so it'll beat all the people at Harvard and everybody that's speaking way

00:31:13.691 --> 00:31:17.251
up here, all the Ivy League talk and all of that is not connecting.

00:31:17.251 --> 00:31:22.331
It's not connecting because you're not telling that story in a very simple way.

00:31:22.751 --> 00:31:27.531
So you led me into one of my questions I was going to ask you.

00:31:28.642 --> 00:31:32.802
Since you since you do this for a living or you've done this for a living,

00:31:33.102 --> 00:31:39.222
is that what makes the president so appealing is because he's able to make these

00:31:39.222 --> 00:31:43.622
big things like, you know, make America great again, big, beautiful bill, all this stuff.

00:31:43.782 --> 00:31:47.842
Is that what makes him appealing to voters? Is that the reason why people support

00:31:47.842 --> 00:31:51.162
him, despite whatever else you may know about him?

00:31:52.602 --> 00:31:58.902
Yes. He somehow gave the catch. Hey, I'm just regular like you are. I don't speak that well.

00:31:59.742 --> 00:32:04.022
I don't seem like I know what I'm doing. I make mistakes.

00:32:04.342 --> 00:32:07.842
All of this kind of, all these things, he's just more relatable.

00:32:08.542 --> 00:32:11.822
And it hurts me. It's more, and he has that figured out.

00:32:11.942 --> 00:32:16.682
He's just more, he's the stumbling, bumbling, everyday person.

00:32:16.682 --> 00:32:22.502
You know, he's not in a, you know, suit and tie that's fitted great,

00:32:22.682 --> 00:32:25.622
his hair is perfect, and he stumbles and bumbles.

00:32:25.802 --> 00:32:29.462
And then also, he's able to tap into the fears.

00:32:29.742 --> 00:32:33.622
He's a master of storytelling, tapping into the fears of America and telling

00:32:33.622 --> 00:32:36.422
their story through that. You know, they're criminals.

00:32:36.862 --> 00:32:40.522
You know, they're rapists. You know what I mean? All these things like that.

00:32:41.482 --> 00:32:47.422
Now, that story is, oh, fear those people. I'm giving you something to hold on to, which is fear.

00:32:47.662 --> 00:32:50.022
Fear these people and get them out of here.

00:32:50.402 --> 00:32:55.282
Again, he keeps telling stories, makes them relatable, but everybody gets scared, right?

00:32:55.402 --> 00:32:59.522
Nobody, everybody fears that person over there that might hurt my family,

00:32:59.522 --> 00:33:03.522
even though it's nobody in the entire city that looks like that.

00:33:03.982 --> 00:33:09.482
That concept is like, I'm going to protect my family, but there's no Latinos

00:33:09.482 --> 00:33:11.742
that's even in your town. Yeah.

00:33:12.528 --> 00:33:19.728
Conceptually, you know what I mean, right? So, yeah, he just has that thing.

00:33:20.428 --> 00:33:24.968
And, you know, that thing is, you know, that thing is like, I remember someone

00:33:24.968 --> 00:33:29.428
made a statement, I was reading one of the books, and they said hot and cold is the same thing.

00:33:29.788 --> 00:33:34.328
You know, we look at hot and cold as being opposites, but they aren't opposites.

00:33:34.568 --> 00:33:39.048
Hot and cold is really the same thing. It's just one on this side of the spectrum

00:33:39.048 --> 00:33:44.208
and one on the extreme side of the other spectrum. But the line is the same.

00:33:44.308 --> 00:33:47.908
You just go whoop to whoop. And that's good and bad.

00:33:48.348 --> 00:33:55.148
So just think of all of those qualities that that individual will have now was for good.

00:33:56.008 --> 00:34:00.088
It just, unfortunately, all of those, I hate to even call them good qualities,

00:34:00.128 --> 00:34:06.668
all those masterful things that he has, that it thing, unfortunately, it's on that bad side.

00:34:06.668 --> 00:34:12.428
And we haven't been able to find our it person to counter that yet.

00:34:12.848 --> 00:34:17.008
Yeah. And in political science, it's literally called the it factor,

00:34:17.668 --> 00:34:24.508
right? There's a, I forget what they call it, but it's like a political perception

00:34:24.508 --> 00:34:25.908
scale or something like that.

00:34:26.348 --> 00:34:30.988
Where it's like how, I got to go back and remember what the term was,

00:34:31.088 --> 00:34:34.128
but it's basically like, do you check all the boxes?

00:34:35.068 --> 00:34:38.048
Do you have a good presence on in media

00:34:38.048 --> 00:34:40.828
do you articulate ideas well can

00:34:40.828 --> 00:34:43.948
you storytell do you have a great backstory and

00:34:43.948 --> 00:34:49.448
all that stuff so you know a lot of people because however you know especially

00:34:49.448 --> 00:34:54.348
if they're critical of them don't want to acknowledge that but he has an it

00:34:54.348 --> 00:34:58.088
factor just like a john f kennedy had an it factor just like a bill clinton

00:34:58.088 --> 00:35:01.848
has an it factor just like Ronald Reagan had an it factor, right? Yeah.

00:35:02.208 --> 00:35:07.868
Obama had an it factor. Oh, most definitely. So, I mean, that's something that.

00:35:08.910 --> 00:35:13.510
Those of us who observe politics, you know, agree with.

00:35:13.850 --> 00:35:18.950
It's like, now we may not agree on policy, you know, whichever side you land

00:35:18.950 --> 00:35:23.710
on, but in order to be president of the United States, you got to have that it factor.

00:35:24.110 --> 00:35:25.910
Yes, sir. You do.

00:35:26.430 --> 00:35:30.590
And it's like, you know, people like, hey, she's smart. She's this,

00:35:30.770 --> 00:35:32.210
but I just don't like her.

00:35:34.910 --> 00:35:38.630
But I just don't like her. What is it?

00:35:40.030 --> 00:35:43.090
They can't tell you and a

00:35:43.090 --> 00:35:45.970
lot of deep things so you know of course it's i mean that's

00:35:45.970 --> 00:35:49.110
like this whole thing about white americans feel like they're

00:35:49.110 --> 00:35:51.870
getting replaced and you know so we all know that's at

00:35:51.870 --> 00:35:55.910
play but again that person still it still takes the right person to get in there

00:35:55.910 --> 00:36:00.450
and lock that to for them to do something that you can feel that way but that

00:36:00.450 --> 00:36:05.390
doesn't mean i'm going to to do anything so he's able to tap in that and actually

00:36:05.390 --> 00:36:10.270
get them to respond because of his it factor because they would have just normally sat there, right?

00:36:10.430 --> 00:36:14.630
Because that's been around a long time, but who had the power to unlock that

00:36:14.630 --> 00:36:17.850
energy, right? And he's been able to do that.

00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:23.330
Yeah. So my last question to you, one of the things that we,

00:36:23.570 --> 00:36:30.350
when we've run for office or served or whatever, one of the things that people

00:36:30.350 --> 00:36:34.190
don't want us to do is pander to an audience, Right.

00:36:34.670 --> 00:36:39.650
If you're speaking to the LGBTQ community, don't make your message just strictly on them.

00:36:39.830 --> 00:36:46.750
Talk about how what you want to do relates to them, but not necessarily pander

00:36:46.750 --> 00:36:49.410
to them. Right. In the same way with the black community, all that.

00:36:49.630 --> 00:36:55.190
So my question to you is because you've done it from a capitalistic perspective. Yeah.

00:36:55.590 --> 00:37:02.270
From a political perspective, can a message that is tailored for black folks be universal?

00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:04.350
By all means.

00:37:05.630 --> 00:37:10.410
Because we have something in advertising we call a universal insight.

00:37:11.539 --> 00:37:16.459
And that universal insight just goes across cultures. It goes across race.

00:37:16.659 --> 00:37:20.499
It goes across communities because we all feel that way. Why?

00:37:20.659 --> 00:37:24.139
Because we're human. And that's back to there's no better story than life itself.

00:37:24.419 --> 00:37:28.339
That's something that connect us as human beings instinctively.

00:37:28.779 --> 00:37:30.839
And we call that universal insight.

00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:36.699
So if you are talking to somebody, especially in a community that you're not

00:37:36.699 --> 00:37:40.599
a part of, it's like the black community, you understand there's a lot of suspicion,

00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.019
a lot of distrust, right?

00:37:43.259 --> 00:37:47.419
And you have to kind of embrace some of that and acknowledge some of that because

00:37:47.419 --> 00:37:51.079
at the end of the day, people just want to be seen.

00:37:51.999 --> 00:37:55.179
I don't have to agree with you and you know what I mean, but I just,

00:37:55.359 --> 00:37:59.439
do you see me and do you respect me?

00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:05.199
At the end of the day, you can address any audience and if you can make them

00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.599
feel seen and respected,

00:38:08.279 --> 00:38:14.579
because that, What happened the other day when that congresswoman said,

00:38:14.799 --> 00:38:16.119
well, we're all going to die?

00:38:18.999 --> 00:38:26.379
You see that cut across, it's like, what? That just was so insensitive as a person.

00:38:26.739 --> 00:38:31.159
Of course we're all going to die. You insulted me, right?

00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:35.939
Yeah, it's going to die, but who wants to lose someone close to them?

00:38:35.939 --> 00:38:39.999
We all know that as a fact, but we don't want to lose it.

00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.839
Not that we got our heads in the sand about it, but that just showed that was

00:38:44.839 --> 00:38:46.659
just a pure insensitive.

00:38:46.799 --> 00:38:50.519
And I just wonder, how did a person get to that level being that insensitive?

00:38:50.879 --> 00:38:54.519
But again, but if you have that universal insight and you stand in front of

00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:58.159
any audience, because a lot of people say it about brands, they'll go,

00:38:58.319 --> 00:39:02.699
who is this brand like McDonald's or whoever brand to come talk to me and tell

00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:04.899
me about my culture? And it's like, hey.

00:39:05.930 --> 00:39:11.530
McDonald's has the right to talk to you like anybody else, but are they doing it the right way?

00:39:11.930 --> 00:39:16.250
You know what I mean? With respect. And that's why you have to be really sensitive,

00:39:16.610 --> 00:39:21.710
very sensitive, especially when you do multicultural audiences or certain niche

00:39:21.710 --> 00:39:24.610
audiences like LGBTQ and everything like that.

00:39:24.730 --> 00:39:27.190
There's a lot of sensitivity around there.

00:39:27.350 --> 00:39:31.610
But like to your point, you can't go in pandering because that's the first thing.

00:39:32.930 --> 00:39:37.390
That's the first mistake. You know what I mean? You know, and then also you

00:39:37.390 --> 00:39:40.250
got to do your homework about these communities.

00:39:40.770 --> 00:39:44.130
You know, you don't have to know everything, but you should have some basic,

00:39:44.130 --> 00:39:49.430
you know, you should have some basic knowledge of every community you should

00:39:49.430 --> 00:39:51.350
address. And that's just respect.

00:39:51.530 --> 00:39:54.590
Right. At the end of the day, you know, if I know something about you,

00:39:54.850 --> 00:39:59.510
that means you've taken time to know something about me. I don't expect for

00:39:59.510 --> 00:40:06.430
you to know my life story, but you say, hey, you are important enough for me to see you.

00:40:06.890 --> 00:40:11.370
And as long as any audience can feel that, then I think they're willing to first

00:40:11.370 --> 00:40:13.850
listen, then listen to what you may have to say.

00:40:15.284 --> 00:40:21.404
Well, Brother Lewis-Williams, I had a feeling that when I invited you and that

00:40:21.404 --> 00:40:24.724
you accepted that this would be a beneficial conversation.

00:40:25.124 --> 00:40:28.504
And in the short time that I've been able to pick your brain,

00:40:28.684 --> 00:40:32.604
I can truly attest to that, that this has been beneficial.

00:40:33.144 --> 00:40:39.184
It is my hope that people that are political like me reach out to people like

00:40:39.184 --> 00:40:43.364
you to get a better sense of how to better communicate with the masses.

00:40:43.364 --> 00:40:47.344
And hopefully we can get a better government in the long term.

00:40:47.684 --> 00:40:54.664
So let me thank you for coming on. Let me thank you for what you have done to

00:40:54.664 --> 00:41:00.124
help make people in the corporate world understand the importance of Black people

00:41:00.124 --> 00:41:02.144
and, more importantly, Black dollars.

00:41:02.944 --> 00:41:08.684
And just the work that you're doing to continue to help young people achieve

00:41:08.684 --> 00:41:10.044
what they want to achieve.

00:41:10.564 --> 00:41:14.164
So I just want to thank you for all that. If people want to get in touch with

00:41:14.164 --> 00:41:18.904
you, if people want to follow you and all that stuff, how can they reach out to you? Okay.

00:41:19.524 --> 00:41:23.104
I'm on LinkedIn. Lewis Williams on LinkedIn. So you can hit me up there.

00:41:23.444 --> 00:41:31.084
My website is there. L Williams at WCGChicago.com is my, it's my,

00:41:31.184 --> 00:41:32.524
and I can give this to you.

00:41:32.624 --> 00:41:35.964
So if you can put it in the bio and things like that, but you can easily go

00:41:35.964 --> 00:41:37.784
to LinkedIn and then we can go from there.

00:41:37.884 --> 00:41:40.764
Cause all my information is there. So Lewis Williams on LinkedIn.

00:41:41.304 --> 00:41:45.644
All right, brother. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.

00:41:45.784 --> 00:41:50.304
I know you've got some other commitments today, but I'm glad you took the time to come on this podcast.

00:41:50.584 --> 00:41:53.064
It's been been my honor and I appreciate it.

00:41:53.424 --> 00:41:56.964
And Erik, thank you again. And hey, man, you and I know each other now.

00:41:57.124 --> 00:42:01.104
Right. So feel free to reach out and we can always talk. So let's not be let's

00:42:01.104 --> 00:42:05.304
not let this be the last time we talk. Oh, no, no doubt. And that's a rule of mine.

00:42:05.464 --> 00:42:08.764
Anytime you've been a guest on the show, you have an open invitation to come back.

00:42:08.924 --> 00:42:12.104
So we some burning in your chest, brother, you can reach out to me,

00:42:12.124 --> 00:42:13.684
too. So I appreciate that.

00:42:14.024 --> 00:42:17.024
Thank you, sir. OK, take care, my friend. All right, guys. Thank you.

00:42:17.264 --> 00:42:18.764
And and we'll catch you all on.

00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:36.880
Music.

00:42:38.068 --> 00:42:43.468
All right. And we are back. And so it is time for my next guest, Ashley T.

00:42:44.428 --> 00:42:50.148
Martin. Ashley T. Martin is a passionate advocate for social justice and equity,

00:42:50.328 --> 00:42:53.808
serving as the founder of Lustitia Aequalis,

00:42:54.028 --> 00:42:58.668
Inc., a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting equal access to justice

00:42:58.668 --> 00:43:00.828
and empowering marginalized communities.

00:43:00.828 --> 00:43:04.008
With over 23 years of experience in fundraising,

00:43:04.328 --> 00:43:09.828
Ashley has successfully raised more than $65 million through her work at ATM

00:43:09.828 --> 00:43:14.988
Grant Writing and Consulting Corporation, where she has secured funding for

00:43:14.988 --> 00:43:19.088
a wide range of programs across state and federal government, court systems,

00:43:19.528 --> 00:43:23.488
health care, and more, both nationally and internationally.

00:43:23.488 --> 00:43:27.308
In addition to her role as Lustitia Aequalis.

00:43:28.168 --> 00:43:31.988
Ashley is actively involved with fundraising for the National Society of Black

00:43:31.988 --> 00:43:36.328
Engineers, where she advocates for diversity and inclusion within the engineering field,

00:43:36.588 --> 00:43:41.848
especially amid the elimination of DEI programs, where engineering touches every

00:43:41.848 --> 00:43:44.128
aspect of life across the globe.

00:43:44.128 --> 00:43:48.588
With a strong commitment to personal and community empowerment and advocacy,

00:43:49.308 --> 00:43:52.688
Ashley continues to drive meaningful change through her initiatives,

00:43:52.908 --> 00:43:58.288
focusing on leveraging technology and education to create a more just society.

00:43:58.488 --> 00:44:04.308
Her work exemplifies the power of collaboration and innovation in tackling the

00:44:04.308 --> 00:44:06.048
pressing challenges of our time.

00:44:06.688 --> 00:44:10.908
Ladies and gentlemen, it is truly my distinct honor and privilege to have as

00:44:10.908 --> 00:44:15.788
a guest on this podcast, Ashley T. Martin.

00:44:16.080 --> 00:44:25.680
Music.

00:44:26.539 --> 00:44:30.759
All right. Ashley T. Martin. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?

00:44:31.219 --> 00:44:34.879
I'm doing very well. Thanks for asking. How about you?

00:44:35.459 --> 00:44:39.659
It's good to talk to you in this format. We've talked before,

00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:45.159
and it's always been a pleasure to jump on a Zoom with you and talk.

00:44:45.299 --> 00:44:50.499
And I'm really honored that you wanted to be a guest on this podcast to talk

00:44:50.499 --> 00:44:53.959
about something that I'm kind of excited about for you.

00:44:53.959 --> 00:45:02.199
And we'll get into all that, but I usually start off my interviews with the icebreakers.

00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:06.219
Okay. So the first icebreaker I do is a quote.

00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:12.559
And so I want you to respond to this quote. Creating a more equitable society

00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:15.279
requires more than just financial support.

00:45:15.499 --> 00:45:19.599
It requires giving people the tools to speak up for themselves,

00:45:19.959 --> 00:45:23.459
access justice, and take control of their futures.

00:45:23.999 --> 00:45:28.599
What does that quote mean to you? That actually resonates a lot.

00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:33.959
It actually drives right into the platform that we're going to talk about today,

00:45:34.059 --> 00:45:35.819
or at least I hope to talk a little bit about.

00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:40.979
I think that there's so many components to achieving justice, right?

00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:44.659
And justice can mean so many things to different people, but the resources and

00:45:44.659 --> 00:45:50.459
the people that drive it, really, that resonates because knowledge is required,

00:45:50.859 --> 00:45:56.059
conversations are required. And neither one of those costs very much.

00:45:56.279 --> 00:46:01.279
It's just a willingness to be open and to be able to think and to take factual

00:46:01.279 --> 00:46:04.079
information and not leave your emotions,

00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:10.859
but realize that so many things drive us and the ability to know that justice

00:46:10.859 --> 00:46:13.359
can prevail, whether it does or not.

00:46:13.359 --> 00:46:17.039
And that there's there's more to it than money that that definitely resonates.

00:46:17.619 --> 00:46:23.119
Yeah. All right. So my next icebreaker, I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

00:46:24.379 --> 00:46:26.519
Seven. OK, seven.

00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:32.359
What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,

00:46:32.619 --> 00:46:34.539
current events, health, etc.?

00:46:35.405 --> 00:46:41.885
Oh, wow. The best way to stay informed. I would say get to know who you voted for.

00:46:42.665 --> 00:46:47.745
Get to know who they are as people, where they come from, what their platforms

00:46:47.745 --> 00:46:52.125
are, what their opinions are, their willingness to listen to you and the policy

00:46:52.125 --> 00:46:53.345
briefs that go behind them.

00:46:53.565 --> 00:46:56.985
Right. Because we can't just go around saying, well, things should change and

00:46:56.985 --> 00:46:57.945
then they magically change.

00:46:58.125 --> 00:47:03.065
Policy, once implemented, can take years, sometimes decades to turn over.

00:47:04.045 --> 00:47:08.805
And knowing that and knowing that even though it may not affect you personally,

00:47:08.805 --> 00:47:12.665
it's going to impact your community and how they're able to engage with you

00:47:12.665 --> 00:47:14.345
for years to come, maybe even generations.

00:47:14.625 --> 00:47:18.905
So if you if you go to the ballot box or even if you pick up a policy brief

00:47:18.905 --> 00:47:22.425
or even if you just pick your choice of news outlet, right,

00:47:22.825 --> 00:47:27.065
whether you're CNN or Fox, whatever, whatever your your outlet is that you are

00:47:27.065 --> 00:47:31.645
at least logical and you're willing to consider facts outside of your own and

00:47:31.645 --> 00:47:33.545
have those conversations. Yeah.

00:47:34.385 --> 00:47:37.845
Yeah. So is tenacious a good word to describe you?

00:47:40.025 --> 00:47:43.285
Absolutely. Maybe even some other words. I've been called many things.

00:47:44.205 --> 00:47:48.125
If that's what comes to mind, I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:48.545 --> 00:47:52.685
Trust me, I've I've I've heard some other names outside of mine myself.

00:47:53.405 --> 00:47:57.025
Yeah. So why do you why do you think it is a good word? You know,

00:47:57.105 --> 00:48:00.485
for me, it's just it's an attitude about how we go about things.

00:48:00.625 --> 00:48:02.705
Right. And by we, I actually mean me.

00:48:02.885 --> 00:48:08.005
I talk so much about organizational assistance and I'm a grant writer and fundraiser

00:48:08.005 --> 00:48:13.685
by profession. And so it's always we because it's I look at underlying causes.

00:48:13.685 --> 00:48:17.365
I look at the statistics. I look at the people behind programming.

00:48:17.605 --> 00:48:21.565
And so being tenacious is really just a part of what I do every day.

00:48:21.785 --> 00:48:26.725
And so if I can implement that into other things, into my relationships,

00:48:26.945 --> 00:48:30.285
into other things, I think that that's not a bad thing. There's other things

00:48:30.285 --> 00:48:33.485
I could be, so if tenacious comes to mind, I definitely take it.

00:48:35.225 --> 00:48:48.305
So let's talk about how you implement that with what is the mission of Lustitia Aequalis.

00:48:49.125 --> 00:48:56.045
It's Lustitia Aequalis. It is Latin, actually. And anybody. I took Latin in high school.

00:48:56.665 --> 00:49:02.525
Lustitia Aequalis. Okay, go ahead. Yes. And it translates very simply to equal justice.

00:49:03.205 --> 00:49:09.245
The platform that I'm building is intentionally slow, kind of a lot like policy,

00:49:09.405 --> 00:49:13.785
because this is something that I want to do and I want to do it well.

00:49:13.785 --> 00:49:22.345
I want people to be positively impacted by it. It will address in the long run.

00:49:22.445 --> 00:49:25.645
Right now, we're focusing on law enforcement interactions.

00:49:26.325 --> 00:49:32.745
That's going to next year in 2026. We'll focus on court systems and blend in

00:49:32.745 --> 00:49:37.185
health care systems because believe it or not, there is high levels of discrimination

00:49:37.185 --> 00:49:40.745
in all three of those. probably a lot policy related.

00:49:40.965 --> 00:49:45.145
I think you and I had a recent conversation where I consider things like police

00:49:45.145 --> 00:49:49.845
accountability, qualified immunity, surveillance limits, citizens' traffic stops.

00:49:50.025 --> 00:49:51.245
All of that is policy driven.

00:49:51.745 --> 00:49:56.565
And because we, you know, I just, I read a report where 80% of Americans,

00:49:56.965 --> 00:49:59.585
and this is just focusing on America right now, it's not even international,

00:49:59.625 --> 00:50:03.665
which the app will serve internationally, but 80% of Americans,

00:50:03.865 --> 00:50:09.225
all of us took a civics class at one point, but 80% of us can't articulate our rights.

00:50:09.625 --> 00:50:14.865
And that's a problem because if you can't articulate it, you also don't know how to assert them.

00:50:15.225 --> 00:50:20.865
And so Lustitia Aequalis really exists to ensure that laws don't just exist on

00:50:20.865 --> 00:50:25.805
paper, on a policy brief or a 300-page policy that nobody's going to read,

00:50:25.965 --> 00:50:30.005
probably not even the people who vote for them, but that they protect us in real time.

00:50:30.085 --> 00:50:34.105
And what I take from implementing technology and policy is, you know.

00:50:34.874 --> 00:50:38.814
Policies have changed over the years, right? We can Google anything we want,

00:50:38.894 --> 00:50:41.054
but our protections have to as well.

00:50:41.194 --> 00:50:43.594
And so the development of this app is called the Witness app.

00:50:44.434 --> 00:50:48.414
You know, I don't personally, I don't care if someone is guilty. I really don't.

00:50:48.854 --> 00:50:54.274
But they still have civil and human rights. They don't deserve to have an officer

00:50:54.274 --> 00:50:56.034
kneeling on their neck for nine minutes.

00:50:56.194 --> 00:50:59.554
They don't deserve to be begging for their life and still shot and killed.

00:50:59.714 --> 00:51:02.334
And, you know, I'll go ahead and address the elephant in the room.

00:51:02.334 --> 00:51:05.634
This is not just a minority initiative.

00:51:05.914 --> 00:51:10.454
It's for everybody. Because unfortunately, in developing this app,

00:51:10.614 --> 00:51:15.714
I've run across mothers who are not persons of color.

00:51:16.394 --> 00:51:23.414
And how do you console the wailing of a mother whose son was shot and killed

00:51:23.414 --> 00:51:24.894
with his hands up? Because it happens.

00:51:25.134 --> 00:51:28.074
It absolutely happens. It may not make the mainstream stories because it's not

00:51:28.074 --> 00:51:32.554
as interesting and it doesn't garner as much attention, but it happens. It happens every day.

00:51:33.114 --> 00:51:38.054
Thousands of people lose their lives from simple, what should be simple interactions.

00:51:38.054 --> 00:51:40.194
And so the app is really developed to do four things.

00:51:40.834 --> 00:51:47.054
It's meant to address your emergency needs right now, sort of minimize those

00:51:47.054 --> 00:51:52.494
racial or ill-driven differences that we may have.

00:51:52.634 --> 00:51:55.174
And, you know, no knock on the officers. I think officers are people,

00:51:55.194 --> 00:51:59.534
too, but we've got to realize that a lot of officers are eligible to carry a gun at age 21.

00:52:01.274 --> 00:52:05.334
I certainly was not the smartest person at 21 years old and so I can logically

00:52:05.334 --> 00:52:06.434
think through things but,

00:52:07.034 --> 00:52:10.454
I really want people to go home at the end of the day whether that's

00:52:10.454 --> 00:52:17.654
in handcuffs or not but the app is meant to one start recording at your voice

00:52:17.654 --> 00:52:21.674
and so we're developing so it won't be like an officer can say put your phone

00:52:21.674 --> 00:52:26.614
down it's still recording one of the cases that touched my heart recently was

00:52:26.614 --> 00:52:28.154
the murder of Sonia Massey.

00:52:28.714 --> 00:52:33.314
Her hands were up. The officer did not have his camera on. His partner did.

00:52:33.814 --> 00:52:37.914
And I just think that that could have been handled in so many ways.

00:52:38.014 --> 00:52:42.974
But what I am tired of doing is being asked to march. I'm not marching anywhere.

00:52:43.134 --> 00:52:44.594
I'm not. I'm not marching.

00:52:44.814 --> 00:52:49.494
What I will do is do my best to implement what I know in underlying causes and

00:52:49.494 --> 00:52:53.074
use something that we have as technology to help us survive, right?

00:52:53.314 --> 00:52:56.034
Survive the stop, handle the halt, however you want to say it,

00:52:56.154 --> 00:53:00.814
but to at the command of your voice, start recording. And it can do that through smartphones.

00:53:01.034 --> 00:53:04.114
And we've considered, you know, sometimes moving for your smartphone may be

00:53:04.114 --> 00:53:06.694
the worst thing you can do, but it also works with smart glasses.

00:53:06.694 --> 00:53:10.334
It also works with your Apple watch to ask it to, you know, start that recording.

00:53:10.434 --> 00:53:13.614
And the officer won't be able to say, put that down, don't record.

00:53:13.814 --> 00:53:17.514
At least if you do not have something pointing at that officer and recording,

00:53:17.754 --> 00:53:20.394
it will still record the audio part.

00:53:20.534 --> 00:53:24.474
And I think what's important about that is we don't realize how hard it is to

00:53:24.474 --> 00:53:26.254
get that evidence when you need it.

00:53:26.727 --> 00:53:30.927
And so if you're waiting on administrations to hand over that documentation,

00:53:30.967 --> 00:53:35.127
your attorney to get it, no, this app will automatically download it.

00:53:35.347 --> 00:53:39.947
It sets up your account so that the next of kin and your attorney can have it as soon as it happens.

00:53:40.387 --> 00:53:44.107
And only you, your voice recognition, will be able to stop that recording.

00:53:44.367 --> 00:53:50.627
And so in tandem with that, simultaneously, it'll pin drop your location so we know where you are.

00:53:50.787 --> 00:53:55.147
I do want to minimize those instances where Sandra Bland was held for days.

00:53:55.147 --> 00:54:00.607
Like no one was coming to get her and then she just ends up not alive anymore

00:54:00.607 --> 00:54:04.967
and I just don't think Again, even if you are guilty of speeding,

00:54:04.967 --> 00:54:07.547
does that mean your life should have been lost?

00:54:07.707 --> 00:54:11.667
I disagree with that And I think that when we have things like our department

00:54:11.667 --> 00:54:14.927
of justice Really letting us down this year.

00:54:15.167 --> 00:54:20.267
I I won't hide the fact that I am really disappointed with decisions to not

00:54:20.267 --> 00:54:25.447
honor those agreements post-Brionna Taylor and post-George Floyd,

00:54:25.667 --> 00:54:31.587
where you promised to work with cities and states to rectify officer tracking,

00:54:31.767 --> 00:54:35.007
to rectify issues with aggressive policing.

00:54:35.207 --> 00:54:39.427
And all of a sudden, in this new administration in 2025, those programs just

00:54:39.427 --> 00:54:41.007
magically went away very quietly.

00:54:41.287 --> 00:54:43.547
I think there's something that the public doesn't know,

00:54:44.129 --> 00:54:46.969
unless you follow things like this, is that there was a program with the Department

00:54:46.969 --> 00:54:49.229
of Justice called NLEAD. Now, don't ask me what it stands for.

00:54:49.289 --> 00:54:51.769
I could Google it, but you can too. It's N-L-E-A-D.

00:54:52.409 --> 00:54:57.249
And essentially what that was, was a tracking for officers because officers.

00:54:57.929 --> 00:55:02.389
On a federal level, I think that, you know, if they took the database away from us, it's okay.

00:55:02.389 --> 00:55:06.329
We can rebuild it because people still have the ability to report misconduct

00:55:06.329 --> 00:55:10.029
and not to internal investigations where things may get handled and they may not.

00:55:10.209 --> 00:55:14.169
But there's another party asking for open records requests of officer training.

00:55:14.449 --> 00:55:18.349
With Sonia Massey, I disagree that that officer should have ever been policing

00:55:18.349 --> 00:55:19.829
anybody with his record.

00:55:20.009 --> 00:55:25.829
There's a long history of people complaining about him and nothing was done.

00:55:25.829 --> 00:55:29.529
And he murders this woman in her home when she was asking for help.

00:55:29.969 --> 00:55:33.209
And so these are just, I know that's a long-winded answer to your question,

00:55:33.369 --> 00:55:37.009
but it's so passionate because our communities are dying.

00:55:37.189 --> 00:55:40.909
And these are faces of vibrant people who have so much to offer that really

00:55:40.909 --> 00:55:42.969
should be here. They should be here.

00:55:43.669 --> 00:55:48.809
Yeah. So NLEAD is National Law Enforcement Accountability Database.

00:55:49.429 --> 00:55:53.509
And so you've addressed the question I was going to ask about that because I

00:55:53.509 --> 00:55:58.449
specifically was going to ask the department's decision to delete it.

00:55:58.549 --> 00:56:02.069
What impact would it have on accountability and confidence? And I think you've

00:56:02.069 --> 00:56:03.009
already addressed that.

00:56:03.489 --> 00:56:11.529
So let me ask you a question this way. A 2024 Gallup poll showed that 51% of

00:56:11.529 --> 00:56:17.529
Americans have confidence in the police, and that's up. That was an increase.

00:56:17.809 --> 00:56:23.209
It had been as low as 43%, like right after what happened with George Floyd.

00:56:23.689 --> 00:56:30.729
Do you believe that the Lustitia Aequalis app would improve that confidence?

00:56:31.922 --> 00:56:35.602
I think it's a step in that direction to improve that confidence,

00:56:35.602 --> 00:56:38.862
because I think that we have to have something.

00:56:39.102 --> 00:56:42.682
And I'm not saying Lustitia Aequalis is the perfect answer, but we are willing

00:56:42.682 --> 00:56:46.962
to have those conversations. We are willing to tell people what their civil and human rights are.

00:56:47.142 --> 00:56:51.182
We are willing to have workshops virtually or in person to come to you.

00:56:51.362 --> 00:56:55.982
Our board actually has a retired member of our government.

00:56:56.482 --> 00:57:01.502
He's a former special agent who's now serving as a county sheriff and knows

00:57:01.502 --> 00:57:02.702
a lot about law enforcement.

00:57:02.942 --> 00:57:07.542
But in no way does his his professional record show that he's even willing.

00:57:07.622 --> 00:57:11.582
I know his department, he has terminated people who crossed the line.

00:57:11.702 --> 00:57:16.022
It just doesn't stand for it. He's pushing for an effort to have something like

00:57:16.022 --> 00:57:17.342
a national clearinghouse.

00:57:17.342 --> 00:57:21.802
So what happens in these instances, what we don't know is with qualified immunity.

00:57:22.642 --> 00:57:27.282
Less than 2% of officers involved in deadly force cases are ever charged.

00:57:27.422 --> 00:57:31.042
But one in 10 officers have a complaint about aggressive behavior.

00:57:31.242 --> 00:57:35.482
And so if you think about those numbers and just the distinction of why aren't

00:57:35.482 --> 00:57:36.602
we holding officers accountable?

00:57:36.822 --> 00:57:39.362
You're trained to hold a gun. You're trained to know what's on that belt.

00:57:39.902 --> 00:57:43.622
I know you said that you had policing background. And, you know,

00:57:43.702 --> 00:57:46.942
I kind of smiled because I was Navy police at one point, even though no one

00:57:46.942 --> 00:57:48.522
ever believes me. I don't know.

00:57:48.902 --> 00:57:52.042
Maybe the shoes kind of makes people doubt me a little bit. But I definitely

00:57:52.042 --> 00:57:54.662
served as military police at one point in my life.

00:57:54.902 --> 00:57:58.702
And what I do know is that you're trying to know what's on your belt with your eyes closed.

00:57:58.902 --> 00:58:02.622
You know where that taser is. You know where that baton is. You know where your weapon is.

00:58:02.742 --> 00:58:08.062
That safety is supposed to be on. So I honestly don't, I know that things can

00:58:08.062 --> 00:58:13.662
happen in milliseconds, but if you are willing to put out that gun,

00:58:13.782 --> 00:58:16.262
one of the things the Navy taught us was you don't point that gun at anything

00:58:16.262 --> 00:58:17.382
you don't intend to shoot.

00:58:17.802 --> 00:58:22.122
But if you point it, I assume you know that you are willing to shoot it.

00:58:22.182 --> 00:58:25.542
And I think that that happens way too often without professional liability.

00:58:26.102 --> 00:58:29.522
When there's malpractice, both in legal and legal,

00:58:29.897 --> 00:58:33.157
healthcare fields, they're held responsible. There's insurance for that.

00:58:33.277 --> 00:58:36.837
So why aren't we holding our officers who we put a uniform, a badge,

00:58:36.837 --> 00:58:42.857
and a gun on to police us and not like a Gestapo style, but to protect us, right?

00:58:42.977 --> 00:58:46.617
You know, I haven't had a terrible incident with a police officer myself.

00:58:46.617 --> 00:58:50.617
I flat some down because I had a flat tire, but that's because the expectation

00:58:50.617 --> 00:58:52.137
to protect and serve is there.

00:58:52.257 --> 00:58:54.937
If I trust you to protect me, I expect that.

00:58:55.097 --> 00:58:59.757
Don't shoot me when my hands are up or, you know, kill our neighbors or people,

00:58:59.937 --> 00:59:01.437
and you just get to walk away free.

00:59:01.557 --> 00:59:06.557
What happens is qualified immunity will allow officers to resign.

00:59:07.217 --> 00:59:10.877
Sometimes, depending on your rank, you get to keep your retirement,

00:59:10.877 --> 00:59:16.037
and you literally can hop over to another agency or another county and just

00:59:16.037 --> 00:59:17.857
get another job with a Scott clean record.

00:59:18.117 --> 00:59:23.917
And I just disagree that if we know that that exists, if you're terrified and

00:59:23.917 --> 00:59:27.077
too scared to police a community, maybe that's not the job for you.

00:59:27.757 --> 00:59:34.617
So either make our precincts and training more dedicated to saving and protecting

00:59:34.617 --> 00:59:38.517
life, or just learn how to police us. I think it works both ways.

00:59:38.737 --> 00:59:43.297
Now, Lustitia Aequalis is definitely not promoting aggressive behaviors to officers,

00:59:43.637 --> 00:59:47.917
but we also don't want officers thinking, and it's funny because I actually

00:59:47.917 --> 00:59:52.517
have a posting on our website or on our social media, a sergeant with 19 years

00:59:52.517 --> 00:59:54.817
could not recite the Miranda rights.

00:59:55.077 --> 00:59:59.077
19 years. We can memorize a song in a day, right?

01:00:00.977 --> 01:00:07.737
There's no excuse for that. And I think that the ability to just let that happen, it astounds me.

01:00:07.837 --> 01:00:11.697
Because if you and I professionally can't recite something after almost two

01:00:11.697 --> 01:00:14.637
decades that we're supposed to professionally know at the back of our hand,

01:00:14.877 --> 01:00:16.737
that's got to be looked at as a problem.

01:00:16.837 --> 01:00:19.497
She was promoted to a sergeant at the time of her deposition.

01:00:19.817 --> 01:00:24.617
I just don't understand that. I think that there's entitlement to that and even

01:00:24.617 --> 01:00:27.457
issues where we're actively looking at,

01:00:28.259 --> 01:00:36.299
Some unfortunate cases where higher levels of police officers really have different experiences.

01:00:36.779 --> 01:00:40.259
An officer who does blow the whistle gets fired for it.

01:00:40.419 --> 01:00:45.499
And then you've got officers who are literally caught on camera saying,

01:00:45.639 --> 01:00:48.339
you know, I've killed a few people in my time, but if you do it,

01:00:48.399 --> 01:00:50.919
don't worry, I'll cover for you. But how is that OK?

01:00:51.219 --> 01:00:54.639
That's not OK. I think that if we have the expectation that that is going to

01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:59.139
be pursued, we're tracking you like you track our credit, right?

01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:04.859
We can't not pay our bills and, you know, Equifax doesn't know about it.

01:01:04.939 --> 01:01:09.579
And so I think that those same things should apply. So, Lustitia Aequalis is

01:01:09.579 --> 01:01:12.859
designed to start conversations, to get you involved.

01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:18.299
And even if you only remember one thing, I want you to know what applies to

01:01:18.299 --> 01:01:21.099
you wherever you go, wherever you live, work, and travel.

01:01:21.279 --> 01:01:25.539
So, a lot of my friends are like, oh, I'm just going to move countries and I

01:01:25.539 --> 01:01:26.879
won't have this problem anymore.

01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:29.779
Like, that's not true. Other countries have the exact same issues.

01:01:30.319 --> 01:01:34.799
We do have a little spot on our website dedicated to if you go to this country,

01:01:34.799 --> 01:01:38.299
you may not have the right to remain silent the way you think you do.

01:01:38.479 --> 01:01:42.239
And so let's have those conversations ahead of time so that you're not caught unaware.

01:01:42.399 --> 01:01:47.439
We want to be able to have this app and develop it in later times or in more

01:01:47.439 --> 01:01:50.959
advanced ways to protect you. That's really the point.

01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:57.619
Yeah. And yeah, I've had a lady on and one of the things she does is help people

01:01:57.619 --> 01:01:59.619
expatriate from the United States.

01:02:00.219 --> 01:02:04.619
And she just put out an article saying, don't move to Portugal or Spain.

01:02:04.839 --> 01:02:07.019
And I was like, okay, I got to read that.

01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:12.019
Find out what she done found out about that. That goes to your point that,

01:02:12.019 --> 01:02:18.899
you know, America has an incredible amount of freedoms, but I'm a big Marvel comic dude.

01:02:18.899 --> 01:02:22.579
And I just remember with great power comes great responsibility, right?

01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:27.679
And so our rights are our power. And to get to the point about the training.

01:02:28.583 --> 01:02:32.843
So it's like, you're exactly right. You know, you've had military training.

01:02:32.983 --> 01:02:34.223
I've had law enforcement training.

01:02:34.543 --> 01:02:42.323
We go through exercises to create stress so that when we are in a moment of

01:02:42.323 --> 01:02:49.243
stress, we automatically do something as opposed to panicking and trying to figure out what to do.

01:02:49.803 --> 01:02:55.503
And, you know, you would think that, you know, people that go through that training,

01:02:55.723 --> 01:02:58.283
you know, they retain it.

01:02:58.583 --> 01:03:03.203
You know what I'm saying? But the reality is in law enforcement is that if they

01:03:03.203 --> 01:03:09.063
don't have programs to retrain you on things, which most law enforcement agencies

01:03:09.063 --> 01:03:12.803
are starting to do now, then people get lapsed.

01:03:12.903 --> 01:03:18.303
And then the other thing I've always pushed for is that I believe that every

01:03:18.303 --> 01:03:22.003
four months you need to go through a psychological review.

01:03:22.003 --> 01:03:30.143
I think that I think that especially if you're in a high crime precinct one

01:03:30.143 --> 01:03:33.463
I think you should transfer out that precinct after you've done a few months

01:03:33.463 --> 01:03:38.063
you know and go somewhere else so you can kind of get a feel because I believe

01:03:38.063 --> 01:03:41.903
that I just believe in people being able to do everything.

01:03:42.583 --> 01:03:45.783
Right and if you if you've been in

01:03:45.783 --> 01:03:48.463
a precinct that's been high crime then maybe you need to

01:03:48.463 --> 01:03:52.063
go to another precinct where the crime's not that high or maybe

01:03:52.063 --> 01:03:55.343
worse it all depends on your skill level it's like okay well we're gonna put

01:03:55.343 --> 01:03:59.363
you in here and then you know when you go somewhere else you know but just get

01:03:59.363 --> 01:04:03.763
you so you'll be in a different environment you know kind of get your mind refreshed

01:04:03.763 --> 01:04:09.763
but i think you need to have you know you need to go through counseling because you never know.

01:04:09.983 --> 01:04:15.803
I mean, I've seen, you know, a dead person in an accident. Right? Mm-hmm.

01:04:16.817 --> 01:04:20.917
I wasn't in law enforcement at the time, but I had to attend a funeral for a

01:04:20.917 --> 01:04:23.257
baby that was dumped in a landfill.

01:04:23.617 --> 01:04:28.057
And I can only imagine in talking to the officers, you know,

01:04:28.137 --> 01:04:29.317
they told me how they felt.

01:04:29.477 --> 01:04:32.337
But, you know, sometimes words can't articulate that.

01:04:33.177 --> 01:04:38.197
And how does that translate to your job from that point forward? Right.

01:04:38.617 --> 01:04:42.477
So you need to have some you need to have somebody to talk to.

01:04:42.477 --> 01:04:46.997
And that would eliminate a lot of stuff because the one case,

01:04:47.237 --> 01:04:52.537
and then we'll go on to something else, but the one case that always bothered

01:04:52.537 --> 01:04:56.777
me out of all this stuff, I mean, George Floyd was horrific and Mike Brown was

01:04:56.777 --> 01:05:01.437
horrific and Sandra Bland was horrific and Breonna Taylor,

01:05:01.657 --> 01:05:08.997
but Philando Castile bothers me more than anyone because the brother was telling

01:05:08.997 --> 01:05:13.137
the officer, I have a gun, I have a gun permit. I'm letting you know that.

01:05:13.697 --> 01:05:18.817
And when you see the film and you see the officers got the gun drawn and that

01:05:18.817 --> 01:05:23.797
hand is shaking, the thing that pisses me off is that no other officer said,

01:05:24.277 --> 01:05:25.857
hey, stand down. I got him.

01:05:26.177 --> 01:05:29.557
You just step back. I got him. Because you can do that as officers.

01:05:29.797 --> 01:05:32.977
It's like, I got him, you know, because you're a backup. So it's like,

01:05:33.037 --> 01:05:34.517
hey, I got him. Stand down.

01:05:35.097 --> 01:05:37.977
Had one of those officers done that, if you see that officer,

01:05:38.057 --> 01:05:41.297
and he got acquitted, by the way. But if you can see that officer,

01:05:41.297 --> 01:05:44.157
he is shaking with that gun.

01:05:44.637 --> 01:05:49.997
I mean, he is, you could, I mean, visibly like nervous. And I'm like,

01:05:50.137 --> 01:05:52.237
that's a bad situation waiting to happen.

01:05:52.757 --> 01:05:54.877
And nobody stepped in.

01:05:55.743 --> 01:06:00.363
To alleviate that. That's the one that shakes me. The other one that shakes

01:06:00.363 --> 01:06:02.783
me up is Alton Sterling because that was just brutal.

01:06:03.083 --> 01:06:07.503
You know, you, you, you, you've got the man pinned down on the ground and then

01:06:07.503 --> 01:06:10.283
you shoot him at point. You've got his arms pinned down.

01:06:10.463 --> 01:06:16.143
How is he going to hurt you? And you shoot him at point blank range while you're straddling him. Right.

01:06:16.543 --> 01:06:20.503
You know, and then they wondered why things happened in Baton Rouge the way they did.

01:06:20.763 --> 01:06:27.503
So I hope that the app, is an effective tool.

01:06:28.123 --> 01:06:34.243
I think that the body cameras, you know, what we were trained is that the body

01:06:34.243 --> 01:06:38.263
cameras are there to protect us when we're in law enforcement.

01:06:38.503 --> 01:06:42.463
Because it's like, whatever we write down on that paper needs to match what

01:06:42.463 --> 01:06:44.403
shows up on that screen. Right.

01:06:44.943 --> 01:06:49.143
And so, you know, it's like, that's why they tell you, you've got to be able

01:06:49.143 --> 01:06:52.843
to write a report and you've got to be able to remember what's going on.

01:06:52.843 --> 01:06:56.123
And I know things kind of happen fast and all this stuff.

01:06:56.463 --> 01:07:00.583
But that's why you go through the training, because it was like we would have

01:07:00.583 --> 01:07:04.703
our last week of training was basically Survivors Week is what we called it.

01:07:04.943 --> 01:07:06.523
Some people call it Hell Week, whatever.

01:07:06.963 --> 01:07:09.943
But it's like all we're doing is dealing with situations.

01:07:10.543 --> 01:07:16.163
Right. And then we got to give a report about what we did, right? Or what happened.

01:07:16.523 --> 01:07:22.343
Of course, we if we make mistakes, we get told right then what our mistake was.

01:07:22.483 --> 01:07:26.143
But then we got to write to report like we did it the right way.

01:07:26.863 --> 01:07:30.163
And, you know, so it just gets you into that mindset. It's like,

01:07:30.263 --> 01:07:31.703
okay, as soon as you do this, boom.

01:07:31.983 --> 01:07:35.923
And it's like, I know as an officer, it sucks at three o'clock in the morning

01:07:35.923 --> 01:07:38.563
to be trying to find a judge to get a warrant for an arrest.

01:07:38.823 --> 01:07:43.723
I get all that. But it's like, you signed up for that job and you need to be accountable for it.

01:07:43.823 --> 01:07:48.223
And I hope that your work helps in increasing that accountability.

01:07:48.483 --> 01:07:52.043
All right. That's my speech for today. Well, at least for this interview.

01:07:52.403 --> 01:07:58.043
So let's move on to something else. Talk to the listeners about your work with

01:07:58.043 --> 01:08:00.303
ATM Grant Writing and Consulting.

01:08:01.190 --> 01:08:04.490
You know, I, oh, that's really funny. You shift gears like that.

01:08:04.570 --> 01:08:05.710
That was kind of a knee jerk.

01:08:07.710 --> 01:08:12.350
I completely enjoy fundraising and grant writing.

01:08:12.610 --> 01:08:17.410
I could win the lottery today and I'd probably still do it. It brings me peace.

01:08:17.650 --> 01:08:19.370
People like me when we win.

01:08:20.430 --> 01:08:25.430
And I think even more importantly than that, you know, the first grant I ever

01:08:25.430 --> 01:08:29.870
wrote, I'm reluctantly going to say I actually cried.

01:08:29.870 --> 01:08:34.310
I was freshly out of the military, and my first job out of the military was,

01:08:34.410 --> 01:08:37.170
shout out to Clayton County State and Superior Court Administration.

01:08:37.790 --> 01:08:41.710
And because I had an English degree, they just thought, oh, we got a grant we

01:08:41.710 --> 01:08:43.210
want to apply for. Here you go.

01:08:43.610 --> 01:08:46.790
And I remember crying about it after reading the solicitation,

01:08:46.910 --> 01:08:48.210
like, I don't know what I'm doing.

01:08:48.830 --> 01:08:51.970
They're going to fire me. I'm going to have to find another job or worse,

01:08:52.070 --> 01:08:53.430
put on combat boots and go back

01:08:53.430 --> 01:08:55.990
to the military, which is something at the time I just didn't want to do.

01:08:57.310 --> 01:09:01.310
And I think after researching writing

01:09:01.310 --> 01:09:04.210
and rewriting it reminded me of

01:09:04.210 --> 01:09:09.110
something not different than writing a term paper and I enjoyed it I even enjoyed

01:09:09.110 --> 01:09:12.870
the the award letter even more I think at the time it was probably only like

01:09:12.870 --> 01:09:16.750
three hundred thousand dollars but to me that was a lot of money to start this

01:09:16.750 --> 01:09:22.850
program and what I learned just about the process of grant writing.

01:09:23.390 --> 01:09:26.930
Getting the partnership and getting funding for these programs,

01:09:26.930 --> 01:09:30.310
they're so important just because of who they impact.

01:09:31.050 --> 01:09:33.790
And, you know, I didn't have...

01:09:34.363 --> 01:09:40.203
I was I was I was good enough to get the grant, but we didn't have anybody hired to start it.

01:09:40.303 --> 01:09:45.023
So as soon as we got it, I kind of had to put on another hat like, well, here we go.

01:09:45.183 --> 01:09:47.763
County employment, putting on another hat.

01:09:47.943 --> 01:09:51.103
And so I actually got to run the program for a little while.

01:09:51.403 --> 01:09:58.383
And, you know, leaving the law library and walking over to the judge and then

01:09:58.383 --> 01:10:01.243
leaving the judge's chambers to go over to the jail.

01:10:02.883 --> 01:10:07.843
Astronomically changed my life. I certainly grew up with a loved two-parent

01:10:07.843 --> 01:10:13.963
household. And so I remember thinking, I'm not going to get this grant because nobody uses drugs.

01:10:14.103 --> 01:10:17.023
Like this isn't even life. Nobody actually uses drugs. We all had that just

01:10:17.023 --> 01:10:18.703
say no program. This isn't even life.

01:10:18.963 --> 01:10:25.003
But when I walked onto the other side, I learned people do use drugs for various reasons.

01:10:25.243 --> 01:10:29.423
Sometimes they are people in the military who have served and have problems coping.

01:10:29.563 --> 01:10:33.543
Sometimes that's just how they were raised. And it's not anything different

01:10:33.543 --> 01:10:38.563
than, you know, how to put on a pair of stockings, pantyhose if you're from the South, right?

01:10:38.763 --> 01:10:44.243
But I think that it really opened my eyes to other parts of life because when

01:10:44.243 --> 01:10:45.383
people have addictions,

01:10:46.623 --> 01:10:51.583
well, it definitely impacts a financial level of the family,

01:10:51.583 --> 01:10:57.483
but there were people who in a year's time, once they were enrolled in the program,

01:10:57.743 --> 01:10:59.843
they were able to get a job.

01:11:00.763 --> 01:11:05.063
And even if they lost their license, they were happy to get a bicycle,

01:11:05.383 --> 01:11:10.483
to ride to work, and to get an apartment, and in a lot of cases,

01:11:10.743 --> 01:11:12.163
get their children back.

01:11:12.643 --> 01:11:20.763
And so when you see those impacts, or you see a mother who is able to give birth to a healthy baby.

01:11:21.598 --> 01:11:26.138
It can change your life. And these people are, they're part of our community, right?

01:11:26.378 --> 01:11:29.258
They can live down the street. They can live two communities over.

01:11:29.378 --> 01:11:34.298
They're still part of your community. They are fighting a battle you have never seen.

01:11:34.578 --> 01:11:41.298
And so where my biggest problems in life probably seem so small compared to them.

01:11:41.718 --> 01:11:46.018
And it just, it really gives you a respect for how hard people get up and fight.

01:11:46.158 --> 01:11:50.478
And if all I have to do is write a grant, that's not asking much.

01:11:50.558 --> 01:11:54.858
I look at it as, you know, God didn't give me the talent to sing.

01:11:55.018 --> 01:12:00.038
So I'm certainly no Beyonce, but I can flick my pen and we can change a few

01:12:00.038 --> 01:12:02.558
things for people that I probably would never meet.

01:12:02.758 --> 01:12:07.298
And so it's something that I'm really proud of. I actually started that nonprofit

01:12:07.298 --> 01:12:11.858
because I do enjoy fundraising for other programs because I realize that no

01:12:11.858 --> 01:12:15.058
program operates on its own, right?

01:12:15.198 --> 01:12:21.278
So if you have a program catered to the court system, you also have healthy

01:12:21.278 --> 01:12:23.558
communities, have healthy families, because guess what?

01:12:23.638 --> 01:12:27.458
If people are employed and thriving, they're also not breaking into your house.

01:12:27.598 --> 01:12:31.618
So those numbers really compound into other areas. And I think that is something

01:12:31.618 --> 01:12:37.238
to be very cognizant of and something that, you know, especially given this

01:12:37.238 --> 01:12:42.218
administration, our social programs are not a waste of money. It's not a handout.

01:12:42.438 --> 01:12:47.738
This is where policy and fundraising and just social good work,

01:12:47.758 --> 01:12:49.718
we aren't just protecting people.

01:12:49.878 --> 01:12:53.698
We're really documenting those injustices and funneling it into reform,

01:12:53.798 --> 01:12:58.538
reform that is needed because we still want to wake up and we want to have healthy lives every day.

01:12:58.598 --> 01:13:02.578
And we don't want to have to worry about someone not being able to make it because

01:13:02.578 --> 01:13:05.958
that's really, that's what cripples us as communities.

01:13:05.958 --> 01:13:12.898
And our communities are, I often see in grant writing, people can afford to

01:13:12.898 --> 01:13:16.058
live in one community, but they can't work there.

01:13:16.218 --> 01:13:19.098
Or communities where people can work, they can't afford to live there.

01:13:19.178 --> 01:13:21.698
And that's something we really need to change.

01:13:21.818 --> 01:13:26.298
And I hope through the development of this app and later versions that we want

01:13:26.298 --> 01:13:30.338
to direct this to public policy has really entered the digital age, right?

01:13:30.518 --> 01:13:33.238
And I just think that our protections have to evolve as well.

01:13:33.418 --> 01:13:37.338
So just some things to think about. But I absolutely love grant writing.

01:13:37.478 --> 01:13:42.378
And even when I don't win, I certainly learn something about the organizations that serve.

01:13:42.638 --> 01:13:47.038
And, you know, I've had contracts and certain employments.

01:13:47.258 --> 01:13:51.718
And every time I leave, there's still really good projects and organizations.

01:13:51.898 --> 01:13:54.578
I fully support them. They could call me now and say, we really want a grant.

01:13:54.618 --> 01:13:59.578
And I promised I'd open up my laptop and see what we can do together. So it's fulfilling.

01:13:59.898 --> 01:14:03.998
So what's the biggest challenge that you face when you help nonprofits?

01:14:05.368 --> 01:14:10.588
April work. You must file your taxes.

01:14:11.768 --> 01:14:17.528
You must have a digital footprint. And I only laugh because it's always very

01:14:17.528 --> 01:14:20.068
sexy to say, oh, we got this partnership and we won.

01:14:20.328 --> 01:14:24.728
But you have to show what you've done with that funding.

01:14:25.288 --> 01:14:30.408
It's almost like you're asking for support. You got to make your funders look

01:14:30.408 --> 01:14:32.448
good. So you got to make them part of the process.

01:14:33.048 --> 01:14:37.628
And so, you know, I've had churches come to me and say, oh, we've got this grant

01:14:37.628 --> 01:14:39.848
we want to do to rebuild the church.

01:14:40.028 --> 01:14:42.168
And I found their taxes in like five years.

01:14:43.268 --> 01:14:46.268
You got to help me to help you. That's how it works.

01:14:46.468 --> 01:14:50.688
And so even if it's just small things, those investments are well worth it because

01:14:50.688 --> 01:14:53.068
you got to show people that you're serious about your programs.

01:14:53.348 --> 01:14:56.188
You're serious about who you serve and you're serious about continuity because

01:14:56.188 --> 01:15:00.828
no one's going to fund you if you're going to be out of operation in the next year or so, right?

01:15:01.168 --> 01:15:05.248
So build your partnerships, file your paperwork, be very dedicated.

01:15:05.328 --> 01:15:11.368
Even if you're making a 1% improvement every day, you're improving for someone

01:15:11.368 --> 01:15:12.828
who couldn't do it for themselves.

01:15:12.908 --> 01:15:15.008
And that's why we exist. That's why we're here.

01:15:16.128 --> 01:15:22.248
Excuse me. So, all right. So let's close it out with this question.

01:15:22.568 --> 01:15:28.268
Sure. When people describe the legacy of Ashley T. Martin, what will you hope that they say?

01:15:29.168 --> 01:15:37.908
Oh, oh, that's a good question. I would hope that they say that they felt heard when they talked to me.

01:15:38.448 --> 01:15:42.848
I would hope that they say, you know, even if she demands that,

01:15:43.108 --> 01:15:46.448
you know, your sentence has bad syntax and there's a reason to write it my way,

01:15:46.488 --> 01:15:47.848
just write it my way, right?

01:15:47.848 --> 01:15:53.908
I would hope that they know that there's a lot of passion behind helping you fulfill your mission.

01:15:54.228 --> 01:15:58.808
There's a lot of passion behind leaving a legacy for somebody else,

01:15:58.948 --> 01:16:00.228
even if they've never met you.

01:16:00.628 --> 01:16:05.508
I always like to think when I go home to Georgia that someone in that drug court

01:16:05.508 --> 01:16:06.448
program, it never fails me.

01:16:06.488 --> 01:16:09.168
I always see somebody and they're like, hey, Miss Ashley.

01:16:09.728 --> 01:16:13.028
And it's always a greeting, but they're always so glad. They were mad at me

01:16:13.028 --> 01:16:18.208
the day that they had to go to the jail or they were mad the day that they had a random drug test.

01:16:19.468 --> 01:16:24.588
But looking at how they thrive after, I hope that people know how proud I am

01:16:24.588 --> 01:16:27.528
of them for getting up. I hope that people know.

01:16:28.872 --> 01:16:34.152
That I understood sometimes a deep breath is your prayer because sometimes words fail us.

01:16:34.452 --> 01:16:36.952
I'm good at words and even I'm left speechless from time to time.

01:16:37.112 --> 01:16:39.512
So I think that part of, you know,

01:16:39.732 --> 01:16:44.692
I don't really think I have a legacy, but I hope that the talent and the patience

01:16:44.692 --> 01:16:50.552
that God gave me to write a paper meant something so much more important for somebody else.

01:16:51.112 --> 01:16:56.212
Well, Ashley T. Martin, first of all, thank you for coming on the podcast.

01:16:56.212 --> 01:16:59.932
The reason why I asked you a couple of those personal questions about legacy

01:16:59.932 --> 01:17:06.092
and tenacity, and I wanted to highlight the work that you are doing.

01:17:06.312 --> 01:17:10.172
One of the things that I'm really proud of about this podcast is being able

01:17:10.172 --> 01:17:15.752
to highlight people that are doing stuff. Not the people you see on the news

01:17:15.752 --> 01:17:19.932
every day, but, you know, people are out here trying to make a difference.

01:17:20.792 --> 01:17:24.312
And you know your your profile when

01:17:24.312 --> 01:17:27.012
i ran across you on linkedin jumped out at me so i said

01:17:27.012 --> 01:17:29.872
i got to get this sister on the podcast did not

01:17:29.872 --> 01:17:34.832
know that we would develop a relationship that was pretty cool you know but

01:17:34.832 --> 01:17:41.332
i'm not surprised because you're that type of sister and so not only am i honored

01:17:41.332 --> 01:17:47.372
that you came on the podcast but i'm honored to know you and and i wish you much success,

01:17:48.212 --> 01:17:51.592
continue the success with the grant writing, especially with the app,

01:17:51.612 --> 01:17:54.512
because we need that. We need that accountability.

01:17:54.952 --> 01:17:59.832
So anytime you want to come back on, you have an open invitation to do that.

01:18:00.552 --> 01:18:04.752
And if people want to get in touch with you about the app or about your grant

01:18:04.752 --> 01:18:06.932
writing services, how can they reach out to you?

01:18:07.392 --> 01:18:10.432
Oh, well, one, thank you for everything you've said.

01:18:10.592 --> 01:18:14.272
I feel the same about you. You are a light at the end of the tunnel,

01:18:14.272 --> 01:18:17.432
like someone cares about what we're doing and they're willing to highlight it.

01:18:17.952 --> 01:18:23.392
So thank you. And, you know, I'm sure that we're going to cross paths probably

01:18:23.392 --> 01:18:26.192
way more than you even care to. Like, what does she want now?

01:18:26.632 --> 01:18:30.732
But I'm certainly reachable. We have social media for Lustitia Aequalis across

01:18:30.732 --> 01:18:33.132
Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.

01:18:33.692 --> 01:18:38.092
I'm still getting comfortable with the idea of AI videos because I do not like

01:18:38.092 --> 01:18:40.972
retaking videos, but I'm going to do my best.

01:18:41.332 --> 01:18:46.192
But we certainly have a 1-800 number and with the same with ATM grant writing.

01:18:46.352 --> 01:18:49.112
I'm very reachable and the contact is on the websites.

01:18:50.052 --> 01:18:56.192
All right. Well, Ashley, again, thank you for doing this and again, much success.

01:18:56.912 --> 01:19:02.312
And you're one of those people, if our paths cross, it'll always be a positive

01:19:02.312 --> 01:19:03.932
experience. So thank you. Absolutely.

01:19:04.392 --> 01:19:06.592
Yes, sir. All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the next one.

01:19:06.480 --> 01:19:15.440
Music.

01:19:17.129 --> 01:19:22.669
All right. And we are back. So if you've noticed on my show,

01:19:22.949 --> 01:19:26.189
I have tried on occasion to,

01:19:26.969 --> 01:19:33.409
get feedback or, you know, bring somebody, excuse me, bring somebody on,

01:19:34.889 --> 01:19:38.949
that could relate to something that was going on immediately.

01:19:40.149 --> 01:19:47.229
Just some inside baseball and stuff i book a lot of my guests like weeks or months in advance.

01:19:48.069 --> 01:19:51.169
And i have been very fortunate a lot of times

01:19:51.169 --> 01:19:56.089
and basically because of the quality people that i've been able to get on that

01:19:56.089 --> 01:20:00.489
a lot of times when they come on there's some relevant stuff going on to the

01:20:00.489 --> 01:20:05.129
work that they're doing or at times just right like their books coming out right

01:20:05.129 --> 01:20:08.209
about the time that we scheduled the interview or whatever.

01:20:08.469 --> 01:20:13.869
So it goes across smooth. But every now and then we run into situations where

01:20:13.869 --> 01:20:22.309
something comes up and there's really a dire need to get somebody on the show to offer a perspective.

01:20:23.109 --> 01:20:27.189
And so I've tried to do that. You know my friend Rick Roberts,

01:20:27.369 --> 01:20:31.389
anytime like we're dealing with economics, he's willing to come on.

01:20:31.589 --> 01:20:36.769
Will Cooper's willing to come on. And of course, you know, the law firm of Pearson and Pearson.

01:20:37.029 --> 01:20:39.989
They're ready to go. As a matter of fact, we got to get them back on soon.

01:20:40.529 --> 01:20:46.409
You know, so I've been very fortunate and I'm very fortunate for Grace to do the weekly news update.

01:20:46.629 --> 01:20:50.729
So at least, you know, as you're gauging the time, when did this podcast come

01:20:50.729 --> 01:20:52.109
out? You can always listen to news.

01:20:52.269 --> 01:20:54.829
It's all, yeah, that came out when all that was going on. Right.

01:20:55.529 --> 01:21:00.569
So we get a story and I get an opportunity to get somebody that can kind of

01:21:00.569 --> 01:21:05.269
elaborate a little bit about the story. and, you know, bring some context to

01:21:05.269 --> 01:21:06.829
it, then I'm going to try to do that.

01:21:06.889 --> 01:21:09.249
And I'm working on some right now.

01:21:09.929 --> 01:21:16.009
But this next guest that I'm bringing on is, his name is Darius Jones.

01:21:17.309 --> 01:21:23.429
And, you know, we've had these two tragic events that have happened within the

01:21:23.429 --> 01:21:25.089
Jewish community here in America.

01:21:25.509 --> 01:21:29.749
We had a young couple that got killed. And then we had those people that were

01:21:29.749 --> 01:21:33.549
burned the following week in Boulder, Colorado.

01:21:34.889 --> 01:21:40.569
And, you know, we've been focused on Boulder a lot, thanks to Median and her

01:21:40.569 --> 01:21:46.349
crew up there. So, you know, and I wanted Brother Jones to come on the show.

01:21:46.609 --> 01:21:53.189
I was in the process of booking him as a guest and then things worked out where

01:21:53.189 --> 01:21:57.409
because of the tragedies that happened, he was able to come on sooner.

01:21:57.749 --> 01:22:04.889
So that's something I'm going to try to do for you all is to get some people in in a timely manner.

01:22:05.769 --> 01:22:09.249
And, you know, I'm not a professional person.

01:22:09.726 --> 01:22:13.406
Producer or anything like that, or booking, that's the term,

01:22:13.506 --> 01:22:14.686
I guess, booking producer.

01:22:15.666 --> 01:22:21.606
I'm not, I'm not a professional at that. So if I can get somebody in that's

01:22:21.606 --> 01:22:24.286
dealing with something that's really, really relevant at the time,

01:22:24.286 --> 01:22:27.786
and they're not already lined up as a guest during that point,

01:22:27.946 --> 01:22:29.346
that's what I'm going to try to do.

01:22:30.006 --> 01:22:34.006
And there's some other things I'm going to try to do too. But I just wanted

01:22:34.006 --> 01:22:37.026
to share that with you because sometimes y'all be like, man,

01:22:37.126 --> 01:22:38.506
how many guests he's going to have on the show.

01:22:39.126 --> 01:22:42.986
You know, I want y'all to be as informed as possible.

01:22:43.726 --> 01:22:47.206
So, you know, I try not to have more than two or three guests,

01:22:47.386 --> 01:22:52.966
but, and then I've got my commentary, but I just wanted to explain that because

01:22:52.966 --> 01:22:57.766
I want this show to be as timely and relevant as possible with the issues that are going on.

01:22:58.346 --> 01:23:01.566
So with that, it's time to bring on Darius Jones.

01:23:01.766 --> 01:23:07.246
Now, Darius Jones is the founder and executive director of the National Black Empowerment Council.

01:23:07.986 --> 01:23:14.786
A membership organization whose mission is to close the systemic wealth influence

01:23:14.786 --> 01:23:20.366
and achievement gaps between African-Americans and more structurally advantaged groups.

01:23:20.746 --> 01:23:25.606
Formerly, Darius served as the deputy national political director for Michael

01:23:25.606 --> 01:23:28.406
Bloomberg's 2020 presidential campaign.

01:23:28.406 --> 01:23:33.546
He helped develop strategies which enabled Bloomberg to realize a tenfold increase

01:23:33.546 --> 01:23:38.186
in his support within the African-American community, earning the endorsements

01:23:38.186 --> 01:23:40.926
of hundreds of black elected officials in only a few months.

01:23:41.266 --> 01:23:46.766
Prior to the campaign, Darius spent a decade as the National African-American

01:23:46.766 --> 01:23:52.146
Constituency Director for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

01:23:53.086 --> 01:23:55.326
Known to most people as AIPAC.

01:23:56.006 --> 01:24:03.606
So, ladies and gentlemen, to address this timely concern that we're having,

01:24:03.926 --> 01:24:10.406
it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Darius Jones.

01:24:10.960 --> 01:24:20.720
Music.

01:24:21.344 --> 01:24:25.384
All right. Darius Jones. How you doing, brother? You doing good?

01:24:25.964 --> 01:24:31.284
Hey, thank you for the opportunity to be here today and to chop it up with you

01:24:31.284 --> 01:24:32.224
on this important issue.

01:24:32.524 --> 01:24:34.864
Well, I'm honored to have you on, brother.

01:24:35.784 --> 01:24:42.244
Funny thing. I was trying to get you on as a guest and then your people reached

01:24:42.244 --> 01:24:43.604
out to me independently.

01:24:44.604 --> 01:24:50.884
And considering all the stuff that's been going on, we were able to expedite getting you on here.

01:24:51.304 --> 01:24:55.124
So my grandma would say, look at God.

01:24:56.304 --> 01:24:59.904
That's right. Look at God. Look at how things come together.

01:25:00.024 --> 01:25:03.304
That's right. So I'm glad I'm glad it did come together.

01:25:03.624 --> 01:25:09.564
So, look, normally what I do is I start off the conversation with some icebreakers.

01:25:10.584 --> 01:25:12.824
So there's two segments. One,

01:25:13.064 --> 01:25:16.484
I throw a quote at you, and then one is the thing we call 20 questions.

01:25:16.904 --> 01:25:20.104
So the first thing is the quote.

01:25:20.564 --> 01:25:23.664
Jews cannot fight anti-Semitism alone.

01:25:24.044 --> 01:25:28.924
The victim cannot cure the crime. The hated cannot cure the hate.

01:25:29.144 --> 01:25:33.544
It would be the greatest mistake for Jews to believe that they can fight it alone.

01:25:33.644 --> 01:25:39.544
The only people who can successfully combat anti-Semitism are those active in

01:25:39.544 --> 01:25:43.244
the cultures that harbor it. What's your thought about that quote?

01:25:44.141 --> 01:25:49.441
Brother, I agree with that 100%, man. Say the strength of the wolf is in the pack.

01:25:49.761 --> 01:25:54.441
And I also have always been a firm believer that God doesn't give any one group

01:25:54.441 --> 01:25:57.601
or any individual a monopoly on wisdom.

01:25:58.041 --> 01:26:03.421
It's when we all come together and really collaborate and recognize the power

01:26:03.421 --> 01:26:08.081
in our interdependence that we can really force multiply our efforts, man.

01:26:08.301 --> 01:26:14.241
And I have long believe that in having this relationship with the Jewish community

01:26:14.241 --> 01:26:17.081
and trying to further the bonds between,

01:26:17.321 --> 01:26:22.441
deepen the bonds between our two communities, that it is vitally necessary to

01:26:22.441 --> 01:26:26.861
have leaders who are able to go within their respective communities,

01:26:26.861 --> 01:26:31.601
be seen as highly credible individuals within those communities,

01:26:31.641 --> 01:26:41.141
and then are also unapologetic and compelling and articulating to their group

01:26:41.141 --> 01:26:50.301
the positions or the challenges or the outright discrimination that another group is facing.

01:26:50.421 --> 01:26:52.521
Sometimes you need cultural translators

01:26:52.521 --> 01:26:58.021
in order to make an issue resonate within a different community.

01:26:58.221 --> 01:27:01.301
And that's something that, you know, I've been involved in that work for a while.

01:27:01.581 --> 01:27:05.721
And I'm fortunate and blessed to have friends in the Jewish community who do

01:27:05.721 --> 01:27:11.021
the same thing in the Jewish community in terms of helping folks over there

01:27:11.021 --> 01:27:15.221
better understand issues of critical importance to the black community as well.

01:27:15.361 --> 01:27:20.441
So we stood together before we came together and fundamentally changed this

01:27:20.441 --> 01:27:21.801
nation during the civil rights movement.

01:27:22.321 --> 01:27:26.381
I think we face similar threats now and it's just as necessary and it's just

01:27:26.381 --> 01:27:29.801
as incumbent upon us to stand together and join in this fight again.

01:27:30.461 --> 01:27:34.861
Yeah, and I'm gonna put a pin in that Cause I've got a question dealing directly

01:27:34.861 --> 01:27:37.021
with what you just said at the end.

01:27:37.561 --> 01:27:40.741
So 20 questions, give me a number between one and 20.

01:27:41.441 --> 01:27:43.001
17. All right.

01:27:43.917 --> 01:27:50.137
What's something about people who see the world differently than you that you've come to appreciate?

01:27:52.217 --> 01:27:57.657
Their perspective. There's one reality happening at any given moment,

01:27:57.657 --> 01:28:03.877
but there are multiple interpretations because we are all looking upon the same circumstances.

01:28:03.877 --> 01:28:08.977
But based on, you know, our background, how we've been conditioned,

01:28:09.437 --> 01:28:15.097
our life experience, we can see similar things through a different lens.

01:28:15.417 --> 01:28:23.857
And I've never been one to be entirely just wedded to a worldview to the degree

01:28:23.857 --> 01:28:30.717
to which I'm not willing to entertain and to have my ideas broadened by other

01:28:30.717 --> 01:28:31.577
people's perspectives.

01:28:31.577 --> 01:28:37.477
I might not necessarily change my position, but I will still be appreciative

01:28:37.477 --> 01:28:40.997
of hearing another person's perspective on these issues.

01:28:41.157 --> 01:28:47.957
Again, to my original point, nobody has a monopoly on wisdom and everyone can be our teacher. Yeah.

01:28:48.737 --> 01:28:53.717
So unfortunately, my brother, you've been in a high demand due to recent tragedies

01:28:53.717 --> 01:28:55.917
that have rocked the Jewish community in America.

01:28:56.657 --> 01:29:02.317
First, there was the murder of the young couple, Yaron Lechinsky and Sarah Lynn

01:29:02.317 --> 01:29:06.297
Milgram, in front of the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C.

01:29:06.737 --> 01:29:11.137
Yes. Then the following week in Boulder, Colorado, a man attacked and burned

01:29:11.137 --> 01:29:16.257
15 victims who were attending a march in support of the remaining Israeli hostages

01:29:16.257 --> 01:29:18.837
in the current Israeli Hamas conflict.

01:29:19.217 --> 01:29:24.437
Both attackers shouted, free Palestine, while being detained by authorities.

01:29:25.297 --> 01:29:30.737
So I have several questions. First one, USA Today asked, is anyone listening

01:29:30.737 --> 01:29:34.297
to the fears of Jewish Americans? What do you think?

01:29:35.177 --> 01:29:41.077
I think that there are people listening, but not to the degree to which the

01:29:41.077 --> 01:29:43.937
urgency of the situation would demand.

01:29:44.077 --> 01:29:49.577
And I think that that is very unfortunate. I think that in a lot of communities

01:29:49.577 --> 01:29:54.697
outside of the Jewish community, there's the perception that the Jewish community

01:29:54.697 --> 01:29:56.917
is extraordinarily powerful.

01:29:57.717 --> 01:29:59.737
Extraordinarily well-resourced.

01:30:00.157 --> 01:30:04.857
And because people are wedded to that idea, it's very difficult for them to

01:30:04.857 --> 01:30:08.837
be able to understand and appreciate the vulnerability that the Jewish community

01:30:08.837 --> 01:30:13.137
actually faces. I mean, it's only 15 million Jews in the world.

01:30:13.357 --> 01:30:19.457
And just a little over 80 years ago, 6 million of them were exterminated by the Nazis.

01:30:20.237 --> 01:30:25.617
It's very difficult to have had that history, to have had the current numbers

01:30:25.617 --> 01:30:29.557
of co-religionists in the world of 8 billion people.

01:30:30.350 --> 01:30:34.730
And to hear constant threats coming from many different quarters, it's interesting.

01:30:34.870 --> 01:30:38.850
Like, as African-Americans, if we were, like, Eric, me and you were ever getting

01:30:38.850 --> 01:30:43.110
ready to be encountered by some folks who didn't like us, and we were standing

01:30:43.110 --> 01:30:46.750
in an alley, we could turn our back to the wall and basically recognize anybody

01:30:46.750 --> 01:30:49.410
that's not really checking for us is coming from the right.

01:30:49.810 --> 01:30:52.710
All right? We know who to look for. All right?

01:30:53.070 --> 01:30:57.310
Jewish community is unique in America in that they have people coming from them,

01:30:57.550 --> 01:31:00.050
from the right and from the left.

01:31:00.350 --> 01:31:08.950
And I really deeply empathize with what it feels like to be just under that

01:31:08.950 --> 01:31:15.090
level of constant threat and to then have people who you would hope and expect

01:31:15.090 --> 01:31:18.470
to be able to understand your vulnerability.

01:31:18.470 --> 01:31:25.250
Just be absolutely unwilling to even entertain the notion of it because they're

01:31:25.250 --> 01:31:33.870
so convinced that you are just this invulnerable bastion of global power based, unfortunately,

01:31:34.350 --> 01:31:36.030
on anti-Semitic tropes.

01:31:36.630 --> 01:31:40.830
Yeah. Well, you know, from my experience being in the legislature,

01:31:41.030 --> 01:31:44.370
brother, it's like you get some attacks as being Black from the left, too.

01:31:44.790 --> 01:31:47.850
I used to tell people all the time. You do, but I mean, it's,

01:31:47.890 --> 01:31:51.570
it's, you pretty much know who those folks are and you kind of,

01:31:51.670 --> 01:31:53.370
you know, mitigate against that.

01:31:53.490 --> 01:31:55.810
It's not all encompassing.

01:31:56.010 --> 01:32:01.530
Yeah, no, no, I, I, I, I get your point, but I just, I, I used to remind folks all the time.

01:32:01.650 --> 01:32:03.950
I said there were the white Republicans, the white Democrats,

01:32:04.170 --> 01:32:05.770
and then there was us, you know what I'm saying?

01:32:06.310 --> 01:32:10.010
And we had, we had to make coalitions wherever we made coalitions.

01:32:10.010 --> 01:32:12.730
You have to make coalitions. Wherever you can make coalitions, you're absolutely.

01:32:12.950 --> 01:32:17.250
But then imagine if your coalition partners are now like, nah,

01:32:17.570 --> 01:32:18.990
I'm not with you on this one.

01:32:19.210 --> 01:32:22.430
That then a very difficult position to occupy.

01:32:22.730 --> 01:32:27.630
That's right. So the next question is, do you think the acts of these lone wolves

01:32:27.630 --> 01:32:31.450
condemn or diminish the arguments of those who are concerned?

01:32:32.421 --> 01:32:36.701
About the deaths of Palestinian civilians, and does it further strain relations

01:32:36.701 --> 01:32:40.341
between Palestinian Americans and Jewish Americans?

01:32:41.021 --> 01:32:48.581
Yeah, I do. I mean, you think about when we've had situations in our history, even think about Dr.

01:32:48.681 --> 01:32:53.801
King during the Civil Rights Movement. We were committed to nonviolent social disobedience.

01:32:53.941 --> 01:32:57.161
And you had to know that every time Dr. King led a march,

01:32:57.401 --> 01:33:02.781
he had a deep-seated fear that there would be either agent provocateurs or that

01:33:02.781 --> 01:33:05.541
there would be people who didn't share his philosophy,

01:33:05.541 --> 01:33:12.901
who would use his marches as an opportunity to while out and then further delegitimize

01:33:12.901 --> 01:33:16.961
our claims and alienate potential allies.

01:33:16.961 --> 01:33:22.121
And, you know, while there might not be anybody within that movement that will

01:33:22.121 --> 01:33:23.681
come out and publicly say that,

01:33:24.141 --> 01:33:28.761
anyone in leadership, regardless of the position that you hold or the stance

01:33:28.761 --> 01:33:33.101
that you take, you have to realize that when people do those kind of egregious

01:33:33.101 --> 01:33:35.321
actions, it sends you back.

01:33:35.321 --> 01:33:40.441
But amongst the people in the middle who are trying to look at it objectively

01:33:40.441 --> 01:33:45.381
and make a decision about which way they want to go, there's never any justification

01:33:45.381 --> 01:33:48.901
for that type of violence.

01:33:49.441 --> 01:33:52.021
And I think that they do their movement differently.

01:33:53.324 --> 01:33:56.544
A tremendous, tremendous disservice. Yeah.

01:33:57.304 --> 01:34:00.844
All right. So third, and you were kind of touching on it when you were answering

01:34:00.844 --> 01:34:05.704
the quote, why should Black Americans care about what is happening to Jewish

01:34:05.704 --> 01:34:08.864
or Palestinian Americans during this unsettling time?

01:34:09.144 --> 01:34:14.624
Well, I would say particularly as it relates to anti-Semitism is that it's not just a Jewish problem.

01:34:14.764 --> 01:34:18.324
It tends to be a societal red flag. Okay.

01:34:18.844 --> 01:34:26.784
What begins with them historically tends not to end there. They're kind of like the warm-up act.

01:34:27.364 --> 01:34:30.684
And in all of my 54 years, when I've heard people,

01:34:31.324 --> 01:34:35.984
you know, racist, anti-white supremacists, talk about our people,

01:34:36.044 --> 01:34:40.984
I have never really heard anyone say, you know, I hate Jews,

01:34:41.184 --> 01:34:43.064
but man, I love Black people.

01:34:43.224 --> 01:34:47.464
Yeah, we tend to be a package deal, man.

01:34:47.644 --> 01:34:50.744
You know, when you hear somebody start and their rhetoric begins to go in that

01:34:50.744 --> 01:34:54.884
direction, You know that if you let them talk long enough, they're coming our direction.

01:34:55.184 --> 01:35:01.024
So my thing is, I don't really understand how we as black people can kind of

01:35:01.024 --> 01:35:05.564
turn a blind eye when we see that happening,

01:35:05.564 --> 01:35:10.884
because we understand human nature and we understand history.

01:35:10.884 --> 01:35:16.724
And then more specifically, if you think about our time as Americans.

01:35:17.684 --> 01:35:19.764
Black people, we've been there since 16, 19.

01:35:20.024 --> 01:35:23.524
During that period, you know, we really haven't had a lot of people who've made

01:35:23.524 --> 01:35:27.844
any effort whatsoever to try to stand with us and be our allies.

01:35:28.144 --> 01:35:34.184
But if there is one group that you can look at and see on numerous occasions

01:35:34.184 --> 01:35:38.244
throughout history that have stood in the breach with us,

01:35:39.038 --> 01:35:43.658
It has been the Jewish community. And just the notion of having a group stand

01:35:43.658 --> 01:35:46.358
with you in your times of trial.

01:35:46.558 --> 01:35:50.938
I mean, think about how society has advanced now since the civil rights movement.

01:35:51.298 --> 01:35:55.598
I had successful black entrepreneurs, successful black podcasters.

01:35:55.738 --> 01:35:57.678
I had a black president of the United States.

01:35:57.918 --> 01:36:05.178
I mean, the yoke of white supremacy and Jim Crow and all the things which held us down.

01:36:05.398 --> 01:36:08.058
We came together with the Jewish community, broke that yoke.

01:36:08.058 --> 01:36:11.478
And now we live in a fundamentally different reality.

01:36:11.698 --> 01:36:16.178
And then to just stand in the positions that we hold now and then to look to

01:36:16.178 --> 01:36:19.118
the side and see somebody who's been with us in the trenches,

01:36:19.678 --> 01:36:26.678
really going through it and to be indifferent or to be nonchalant or even worse,

01:36:26.798 --> 01:36:31.678
to kind of be indignant in trying to justify why it's necessary for them to

01:36:31.678 --> 01:36:32.958
be alienated in that way.

01:36:33.138 --> 01:36:37.778
I mean, that's objectionable to me, man. It's like not honoring the code And

01:36:37.778 --> 01:36:41.498
the code is you stand with those who stood with you.

01:36:41.758 --> 01:36:43.958
And I hate to see it happening.

01:36:44.798 --> 01:36:51.518
Yeah. So that kind of leads into my next question. Okay. You worked for AIPAC for eight years.

01:36:52.198 --> 01:36:56.998
Your primary responsibility was to build coalition between the black community

01:36:56.998 --> 01:36:58.178
and the Jewish community.

01:36:58.838 --> 01:37:06.158
Now, in 2024, AIPAC targeted several black members of Congress and successfully defeated two of them.

01:37:06.158 --> 01:37:09.218
Should a single issue group

01:37:09.218 --> 01:37:12.238
that seeks community with black folks go so

01:37:12.238 --> 01:37:16.998
aggressively against black leaders now before you answer let me do the disclaimer

01:37:16.998 --> 01:37:23.338
uh brother jones was no longer working with aipac in 2024 he had been gone for

01:37:23.338 --> 01:37:28.778
a minute so he wasn't part of that decision making process but as somebody that

01:37:28.778 --> 01:37:32.038
has worked for an organization kind of kind of,

01:37:32.827 --> 01:37:35.847
answer that question the best way that you can.

01:37:36.647 --> 01:37:42.287
Sure. So, you know, you mentioned the fact that there were two Congressional

01:37:42.287 --> 01:37:48.327
Black Caucus members that AIPAC mobilized against in their primary races.

01:37:48.527 --> 01:37:50.107
And you're absolutely right.

01:37:50.647 --> 01:37:58.367
And in addition to that, there were probably 52 Congressional Black Caucus members that AIPAC supported,

01:37:58.827 --> 01:38:05.867
that the Jewish community raised critical funds to help those folks maintain their offices.

01:38:06.787 --> 01:38:13.967
AIPAC is no different than any organization which has a particular point of

01:38:13.967 --> 01:38:18.207
view that they want to see advanced in Congress.

01:38:18.547 --> 01:38:23.427
I mean, our major organizations, NAACP, National Urban League,

01:38:23.567 --> 01:38:25.327
they take positions on critical issues.

01:38:25.587 --> 01:38:28.807
And if you were to have somebody from a different community say,

01:38:29.027 --> 01:38:34.187
oh, absolutely not. Like everything that you stand for, I stand in complete

01:38:34.187 --> 01:38:36.307
and total opposition to that.

01:38:36.507 --> 01:38:43.047
In a representative democracy, people organize themselves and they try to unseat

01:38:43.047 --> 01:38:48.487
those particular individuals. That is the nature of politics in a democratic system.

01:38:48.967 --> 01:38:56.047
But it seems to be, and this is another element of a bias, which I think is

01:38:56.047 --> 01:38:58.707
a manifestation of some measure of anti-Semitism.

01:38:59.007 --> 01:39:03.167
I'm saying you're not doing it. But a lot of times things that everyone else

01:39:03.167 --> 01:39:06.327
does as an absolute matter of course,

01:39:06.727 --> 01:39:13.327
in terms of a particular group trying to advance or secure its interests,

01:39:13.707 --> 01:39:19.727
when folks in the Jewish community do it, it tends to be characterized as something,

01:39:20.007 --> 01:39:21.747
you know, it's vilified.

01:39:22.467 --> 01:39:24.347
So, you know, I never...

01:39:25.616 --> 01:39:32.596
Felt that the organization was intentionally trying to target people on anything to do with race.

01:39:32.676 --> 01:39:37.496
I felt like it had to do with organization has a particular position.

01:39:37.816 --> 01:39:41.016
There's things that it wants to see happen within the government,

01:39:41.016 --> 01:39:43.796
no different than any other major lobbying organization.

01:39:44.176 --> 01:39:49.256
And if you don't see the world the same way, then you challenge those folks

01:39:49.256 --> 01:39:50.576
in an electoral process.

01:39:50.636 --> 01:39:54.396
That's just the nature of politics in our country. And then,

01:39:54.496 --> 01:40:00.136
you know, in those particular instances, though, we have a C4 organization called

01:40:00.136 --> 01:40:01.756
the National Black Empowerment Action Fund.

01:40:01.956 --> 01:40:05.996
And one of the things that we were doing in congressional black caucus districts

01:40:05.996 --> 01:40:12.576
is polling black folks in those districts in order to understand what were the

01:40:12.576 --> 01:40:18.916
main issues that were going to animate their participation in these elections.

01:40:18.916 --> 01:40:23.336
And it was issues dealing with, obviously, the economy, jobs,

01:40:23.636 --> 01:40:25.796
schools, and public safety.

01:40:25.996 --> 01:40:29.896
And the two individuals that you're mentioning.

01:40:30.496 --> 01:40:34.376
They stood, while being African American,

01:40:34.816 --> 01:40:39.756
the positions that they were holding on public safety, on the Biden infrastructure

01:40:39.756 --> 01:40:45.996
plan, which would have brought untold resources and jobs and opportunities to

01:40:45.996 --> 01:40:48.376
their districts, they didn't support those.

01:40:48.376 --> 01:40:53.616
And in fact, in over 100 cases, both of those two members voted against the

01:40:53.616 --> 01:40:57.996
positions of the Biden administration and the Congressional Black Caucus on

01:40:57.996 --> 01:41:00.196
issues of critical importance to our community.

01:41:00.356 --> 01:41:05.976
So when folks in those districts got a better understanding of where these members

01:41:05.976 --> 01:41:11.256
actually stood, not on Israel, nobody in the black, they didn't care about that.

01:41:11.256 --> 01:41:15.976
It was about how they stood on issues that were germane to our community when

01:41:15.976 --> 01:41:17.136
people saw that disconnect.

01:41:18.298 --> 01:41:22.678
That then is what led to those members being unseated.

01:41:23.018 --> 01:41:29.798
So AIPAC did play a role in that, but it is a much larger that their action

01:41:29.798 --> 01:41:36.998
took place amidst a much larger context of other issues that affected that outcome.

01:41:37.558 --> 01:41:41.818
Yeah. And and to be fair, it's like, you know, I've been an elected official.

01:41:42.118 --> 01:41:44.778
I've won elections and I've lost elections.

01:41:45.398 --> 01:41:53.078
And I know that one group may get the credit for feeding it,

01:41:53.318 --> 01:41:59.198
especially an incumbent, but there's always a whole bunch of circumstances.

01:42:00.278 --> 01:42:03.518
I tell people all the time, you know, they say, well, you know,

01:42:03.578 --> 01:42:07.278
the bankers came against you and all this stuff. I say, bro, did you see my opponent?

01:42:07.738 --> 01:42:11.718
That sister was beautiful. That sister was intelligent. That sister,

01:42:11.998 --> 01:42:15.438
it was like people remembered when she knocked on their door. compared to me.

01:42:16.238 --> 01:42:21.918
And then the other thing, the other thing was she grew up in the district,

01:42:21.918 --> 01:42:25.558
you know, where I had moved in the district years ago.

01:42:25.758 --> 01:42:28.398
And so I wasn't a native of even the city.

01:42:28.938 --> 01:42:32.318
So it worked out, you know, and we were cool.

01:42:32.518 --> 01:42:35.138
You know what I'm saying? We didn't have any personal beef against each other,

01:42:35.158 --> 01:42:37.438
but I said, that's just the nature of politics.

01:42:37.558 --> 01:42:40.618
There's always a whole lot of circumstances that kick in.

01:42:41.138 --> 01:42:44.098
Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, But at the end of the day,

01:42:44.658 --> 01:42:47.818
Tip O'Neill wrote a famous book called All Politics is Local.

01:42:48.898 --> 01:42:52.198
And I'm not saying you weren't in your case. I'm sure that you were taking great

01:42:52.198 --> 01:42:53.778
care of your constituents.

01:42:53.958 --> 01:42:57.978
But at the end of the day, if you really doing what the people who put you in

01:42:57.978 --> 01:43:05.178
that seat want you to do, it can be very difficult for people to come from the outside and unseat you.

01:43:05.298 --> 01:43:08.858
I mean, what's the reelection rate of most incumbents in Congress,

01:43:09.038 --> 01:43:13.058
like 92 percent? it. You know, you're focused on your constituent services.

01:43:13.518 --> 01:43:19.258
And, you know, if you are a congressional black caucus member and your black

01:43:19.258 --> 01:43:23.618
constituency has an expectation that you're going to be championing issues that

01:43:23.618 --> 01:43:26.818
help put food on their table and you're making,

01:43:27.058 --> 01:43:31.238
you know, an element of United States foreign policy, the hill that you're ready

01:43:31.238 --> 01:43:36.698
to die on to the exclusion of a focus on things that are going to help people,

01:43:36.698 --> 01:43:38.778
you know, stay out of poverty.

01:43:39.838 --> 01:43:45.438
I might listen to you do that for a couple of years, but eventually you keep

01:43:45.438 --> 01:43:51.298
beating that drum and we're not getting what we need on the ground in order to improve our lives.

01:43:52.164 --> 01:43:55.584
I might be open to entertain some other possibilities. And I think that that's

01:43:55.584 --> 01:43:57.684
what happened in those two races. Yeah.

01:43:58.084 --> 01:44:03.224
And, you know, again, I, I, you know, I think I was doing a good job and,

01:44:03.404 --> 01:44:08.524
but I used to tell people all the time, I said, my district was the most affluent

01:44:08.524 --> 01:44:10.344
black district in the state.

01:44:11.144 --> 01:44:16.064
So all the college, all those folks were college educated. All those folks were

01:44:16.064 --> 01:44:18.544
ambitious. All those folks were socially connected.

01:44:19.624 --> 01:44:25.364
So I worked as hard as I did because I was trying to minimize competition because

01:44:25.364 --> 01:44:29.924
somebody in that district was going to be able to run and give it to me.

01:44:30.004 --> 01:44:33.564
And at least I got nine years out of it. So it is what it is.

01:44:34.284 --> 01:44:40.864
In November 2024, in a column you wrote for The Hill entitled A New Path Forward

01:44:40.864 --> 01:44:47.364
for Black America, you said it's time to shift from thinking in binary terms of us versus them.

01:44:47.364 --> 01:44:51.324
And instead approach politics with the mindset of a chess player,

01:44:51.884 --> 01:44:53.664
strategically several moves ahead.

01:44:53.944 --> 01:45:00.184
The challenges we face transcend party lines, while historical loyalties run

01:45:00.184 --> 01:45:02.624
deep, issues such as economic inequality,

01:45:03.044 --> 01:45:09.644
educational gaps, and under-resourced communities persist, regardless of which party holds power.

01:45:10.044 --> 01:45:16.084
Now, Kareem Jean-Pierre, former White House press secretary for Joe Biden,

01:45:16.684 --> 01:45:20.664
announced that she has left the Democratic Party to become an independent and

01:45:20.664 --> 01:45:21.864
even wrote a book about it.

01:45:22.344 --> 01:45:29.484
Is it time for Black American voters to end their 60-plus year loyalty to the Democratic Party?

01:45:30.334 --> 01:45:39.634
I think it is time for black Americans to look at politics as a mechanism to

01:45:39.634 --> 01:45:42.314
the advancement and the achievement of ends,

01:45:42.334 --> 01:45:46.174
which are critical to our survival and to our advancement.

01:45:46.174 --> 01:45:52.194
And in a two-party system of governance,

01:45:52.594 --> 01:45:59.734
to over-index on one side to the degree of upwards of 90%,

01:45:59.734 --> 01:46:07.954
you are not engaging, you are not compelling people to compete for your vote. You are there.

01:46:08.074 --> 01:46:10.774
There's no negotiation possible.

01:46:11.254 --> 01:46:14.554
There's no engagement where

01:46:14.554 --> 01:46:18.634
you can start to have an exchange of ideas and another group can begin to learn

01:46:18.634 --> 01:46:23.514
how they could potentially bring benefit or help address the needs of your community

01:46:23.514 --> 01:46:28.514
because you over index to such a degree where it seems as though the possibility

01:46:28.514 --> 01:46:31.934
for meaningful conversation just doesn't even exist.

01:46:31.934 --> 01:46:39.114
OK, I do not think that that is a pragmatic.

01:46:39.754 --> 01:46:47.494
Practical or advisable way to continuously try to get what we need under this system.

01:46:47.494 --> 01:46:51.014
Again, you mentioned that I worked at AIPAC.

01:46:51.254 --> 01:46:55.314
The foundational principle of the organization was bipartisanship.

01:46:55.894 --> 01:47:02.954
So that if you were a Republican and you supported the issues that were of importance

01:47:02.954 --> 01:47:05.334
to the organization, they supported you.

01:47:05.694 --> 01:47:12.854
If you were a Democrat and you supported it, then they supported you.

01:47:12.854 --> 01:47:18.094
And then what that did was it created a circumstance where no matter who is

01:47:18.094 --> 01:47:22.114
in power, what you care about is not marginalized.

01:47:23.330 --> 01:47:28.850
OK, you have the requisite relationships on both sides of the aisle to make

01:47:28.850 --> 01:47:36.270
sure that a deaf ear is not turned to you for whatever period that person is in office.

01:47:36.510 --> 01:47:40.210
And as black people, we can't there's too much riding.

01:47:40.690 --> 01:47:49.690
We live too close to the precipice of like economic implosion for us to be able

01:47:49.690 --> 01:47:52.970
to say, OK, for four years or for eight years.

01:47:53.330 --> 01:47:57.550
We don't like the party in power, so we're not even going to talk to them.

01:47:58.390 --> 01:48:03.970
Like, they are persona non grata. And if I see you, Eric, even over there having

01:48:03.970 --> 01:48:07.830
a conversation with you, with them, I'm going to cancel you, okay?

01:48:07.950 --> 01:48:11.510
Even though you got unimpeachable credibility in our community,

01:48:11.570 --> 01:48:13.270
you are an elected official, you

01:48:13.270 --> 01:48:17.170
talk about issues which are critical importance to us each and every day.

01:48:17.170 --> 01:48:21.490
If I even see you in the vicinity of somebody from another party,

01:48:21.790 --> 01:48:26.250
then I'm severing my relationship with you and I'm going to try to,

01:48:26.250 --> 01:48:28.910
you know, disparage you within the larger community.

01:48:29.290 --> 01:48:33.570
And really what you're doing is you over there just trying to see if it's even

01:48:33.570 --> 01:48:41.590
possible to have a conversation with these folks about how these issues can be addressed.

01:48:41.590 --> 01:48:50.710
And I just flatly refuse to be boxed in like that when I recognize both the

01:48:50.710 --> 01:48:56.910
benefit of having relationships on both sides of the aisle and then for our community,

01:48:56.910 --> 01:49:02.210
the dire necessity of having relationships with folks on both sides of the aisle.

01:49:02.210 --> 01:49:08.330
Both parties should come to our communities and compete for our vote.

01:49:08.890 --> 01:49:14.410
Like, I say this in jest. I'm being somewhat facetious.

01:49:14.550 --> 01:49:17.690
But I'm like, if I had a magic wand, Eric, here's what I'd do.

01:49:17.950 --> 01:49:20.610
I weighed a magic wand. Then on Tuesday...

01:49:22.197 --> 01:49:25.397
Everybody Black would be registered to vote, okay? There'd be a couple of news

01:49:25.397 --> 01:49:29.617
cycles about it. Oh, my God, 100% African-American voter registration.

01:49:30.097 --> 01:49:33.617
On Thursday, we would then hold a press conference,

01:49:33.617 --> 01:49:37.897
and we would say Black people are withdrawing from partisan politics,

01:49:37.897 --> 01:49:45.137
and we will vote as a bloc for whichever party is prepared to do the most to advance our interests.

01:49:45.597 --> 01:49:49.957
It would be the most consequential political constituency in the history of

01:49:49.957 --> 01:49:51.377
the United States overnight.

01:49:52.197 --> 01:49:58.677
Just because we refuse to over-index on either side and we're keeping our powder

01:49:58.677 --> 01:50:03.417
dry and we're letting people come to us and negotiate,

01:50:04.177 --> 01:50:07.557
compete for our votes. Will that ever happen?

01:50:07.937 --> 01:50:13.477
Likely not. Takes multiple generations of societal conditioning for that to happen.

01:50:13.817 --> 01:50:21.257
But were it ever to happen, we would be in a decidedly different power position here in this country.

01:50:21.257 --> 01:50:25.257
Well, to highlight your point about generations.

01:50:26.437 --> 01:50:31.757
You know, what I try to explain to people is that our political sophistication

01:50:31.757 --> 01:50:38.017
is not as advanced as our lighter skin cousins, right?

01:50:38.297 --> 01:50:44.897
Because we've only been a full democracy for 60 years.

01:50:45.937 --> 01:50:51.897
And even less if you consider that 18-year-olds weren't allowed to vote till 72.

01:50:52.957 --> 01:50:59.097
So, you know, in the Black community, we've got 60 years, even though we've

01:50:59.097 --> 01:51:05.757
had some traditions as organizing and being able periodically to get elected.

01:51:05.757 --> 01:51:09.297
We had a 10-year run during, you know, in Reconstruction.

01:51:09.757 --> 01:51:12.137
But on a consistent basis in

01:51:12.137 --> 01:51:16.577
the modern-day politics, We've only been engaged for 60 years like this.

01:51:16.837 --> 01:51:20.337
So we don't have we're just now getting to the point where our children,

01:51:20.677 --> 01:51:24.157
if we've been elected, our children are now running for office.

01:51:24.297 --> 01:51:29.937
Whereas like you got folks that their great grandchildren are running for office. Right.

01:51:30.477 --> 01:51:35.217
So there's there's some nuances that we still need to learn.

01:51:36.051 --> 01:51:41.451
And, you know, your magic wand is 100 percent registration voting as a block.

01:51:41.631 --> 01:51:47.751
My magic wand is on November, on the first Tuesday in November on the presidential

01:51:47.751 --> 01:51:53.291
election year, your choice for president is a black person as a Democrat or

01:51:53.291 --> 01:51:55.851
a black person as a Republican. That's my magic wand.

01:51:57.511 --> 01:52:02.231
It's like we got to get to that point where I said that would be my dream.

01:52:02.231 --> 01:52:06.411
You know what I'm saying? To be able to see somebody that looks like us,

01:52:06.551 --> 01:52:09.271
that comes from our communities in both parties.

01:52:09.991 --> 01:52:16.011
And more likely than not, they're addressing the issues that we need addressed.

01:52:16.011 --> 01:52:19.171
It's just a matter of which one we think can do the job, right?

01:52:19.871 --> 01:52:24.831
Absolutely. I agree. I agree with you 100%. And I think, you know,

01:52:24.911 --> 01:52:28.191
what I'm talking about is, is, is, is feasible.

01:52:28.351 --> 01:52:30.951
You know, this likely never going to happen.

01:52:31.131 --> 01:52:33.591
What you're talking about is thinking much closer to reality,

01:52:33.591 --> 01:52:35.331
but you know, we can all drink.

01:52:36.151 --> 01:52:42.071
In terms of like the learning curve, I think the minute we start to really look

01:52:42.071 --> 01:52:45.971
at our politics through the context of like survival.

01:52:46.691 --> 01:52:51.911
When we really realize that that's the calculus it holds.

01:52:52.131 --> 01:52:57.671
And I think that it takes time to learn things until you consider them to be existential.

01:52:58.091 --> 01:53:03.231
Once you recognize the existential nature of it, your ability to respond differently.

01:53:03.670 --> 01:53:07.150
Is significantly quickened. So,

01:53:07.510 --> 01:53:15.150
you know, I feel like if things were to ever take an even more decidedly disadvantageous

01:53:15.150 --> 01:53:17.110
turn within our community,

01:53:17.350 --> 01:53:23.170
that you might have people who might be more receptive to those types of ideas.

01:53:23.390 --> 01:53:27.970
I mean, this time around in the most recent election, it was a significant conversation point.

01:53:28.290 --> 01:53:31.610
You know, when I'm in the barbershop, when I'm at the restaurants.

01:53:32.130 --> 01:53:36.650
You know, there were a lot of people who were talking about the idea in ways

01:53:36.650 --> 01:53:39.150
that I hadn't heard them talk about it before.

01:53:39.490 --> 01:53:42.490
Now, ultimately, I mean, once in a voting booth, voting booth,

01:53:42.690 --> 01:53:43.870
you know, they did what they did.

01:53:44.170 --> 01:53:49.850
But there was a serious consideration of how we position ourselves politically

01:53:49.850 --> 01:53:53.670
that I had not heard spoken about in previous elections.

01:53:54.210 --> 01:53:58.390
Yeah. And those conversations are still going too, brother. They still haven't.

01:53:58.390 --> 01:54:01.250
So that leads me to my final question for you.

01:54:01.870 --> 01:54:06.430
Talk about the National Black Empowerment Council and how your organization

01:54:06.430 --> 01:54:10.830
can assist Black Americans navigate through this turbulent moment in our country.

01:54:10.830 --> 01:54:13.270
Absolutely, brother. Thank you for asking.

01:54:13.570 --> 01:54:17.870
The National Black Empowerment Council is a national leadership network.

01:54:18.070 --> 01:54:21.890
Black leaders in business, politics, academia, health, tech,

01:54:22.410 --> 01:54:24.110
faith, law, philanthropy.

01:54:24.110 --> 01:54:30.130
The best way to describe it, man, is to imagine 20 to 25 cities in the United

01:54:30.130 --> 01:54:34.910
States where Black people live in basically high enough demographics that you're

01:54:34.910 --> 01:54:38.890
going to have African-American elected officials and that we're going to have

01:54:38.890 --> 01:54:41.210
kind of like an outsized influence over the politics.

01:54:41.210 --> 01:54:48.890
What we've been doing as a movement over the last 15 years is identifying folks

01:54:48.890 --> 01:54:55.230
from those various industries in those cities who could work together strategically

01:54:55.230 --> 01:54:57.230
to leverage their resources,

01:54:57.470 --> 01:54:59.930
their relationships, and their institutional influence.

01:55:00.672 --> 01:55:05.152
To do things for the benefit of Black folks. So we have a number of folks who

01:55:05.152 --> 01:55:09.832
first joined our organization as aspiring political leaders,

01:55:09.832 --> 01:55:15.452
who've now gone on to be mayors, who's the United States Senator in our group, members of Congress.

01:55:16.092 --> 01:55:20.092
HBCU presidents, successful entrepreneurs, partners in law firms,

01:55:20.152 --> 01:55:26.712
but folks who in the various cities that we live in recognize challenges that

01:55:26.712 --> 01:55:30.652
are existing in our communities and work together, not in a way where we're

01:55:30.652 --> 01:55:32.072
out here having press conferences,

01:55:32.552 --> 01:55:35.532
not in a way where we're out here pounding our chest trying to get newspaper

01:55:35.532 --> 01:55:40.532
articles about how we work together, but people who can pick up a phone and

01:55:40.532 --> 01:55:44.692
do things which move the needle that cause positive things to happen for our

01:55:44.692 --> 01:55:46.192
community on the ground.

01:55:46.392 --> 01:55:53.012
And I think that many other communities develop these types of leadership networks

01:55:53.012 --> 01:55:56.852
of folks who have the opportunity to get to know each other, network,

01:55:57.052 --> 01:56:01.692
have shared experiences, but then also be imbued with a sense of responsibility

01:56:01.692 --> 01:56:08.032
and mission as it relates to not just having these positions for self-aggrandizement,

01:56:08.172 --> 01:56:13.892
but to use them across multiple industries to do things which uplift our folks.

01:56:14.072 --> 01:56:20.572
So, you know, we want to be additive to things that the legacy civil rights

01:56:20.572 --> 01:56:21.752
organizations are doing,

01:56:21.752 --> 01:56:25.032
as well as what's happening at the grassroots levels,

01:56:25.032 --> 01:56:30.272
because a lot of times You need people who are in those critical arteries who

01:56:30.272 --> 01:56:35.752
can push buttons and answer calls and send the correct email to make things

01:56:35.752 --> 01:56:38.332
happen, which bring benefit to the grassroots.

01:56:39.492 --> 01:56:45.552
And, you know, I was going to say, and one of the things that we also do is

01:56:45.552 --> 01:56:51.972
that we do recognize the importance of allies and of critical strategic partnerships.

01:56:51.972 --> 01:56:58.712
So in pulling this network together, bringing about a resurgence of the Black-Jewish

01:56:58.712 --> 01:57:04.512
relationship is also something which is a high priority of the organization as well.

01:57:04.572 --> 01:57:06.472
Because as you said before, if

01:57:06.472 --> 01:57:10.512
any one group could do it entirely by themselves, it would have been done.

01:57:10.972 --> 01:57:16.152
But to the degree to which you can have other like-minded, formidable people

01:57:16.152 --> 01:57:20.412
join your coalition, it increases your likelihood of success.

01:57:20.872 --> 01:57:24.212
All right. So there's two things I want you to do now.

01:57:24.372 --> 01:57:29.432
I want you to tell people how they can get involved with the National Black

01:57:29.432 --> 01:57:32.352
Empowerment Council, how they can get in touch with you.

01:57:32.752 --> 01:57:38.012
And then I want you to leave us with a word of encouragement as we as we go through.

01:57:38.879 --> 01:57:45.979
Absolutely. You go to the website. It's dmbec.org. You can email me directly

01:57:45.979 --> 01:57:51.859
at president at nationalblackempowermentcouncil at dmbec.org.

01:57:52.119 --> 01:57:56.339
For folks who are going to be at the African-American Mayors Conference,

01:57:56.339 --> 01:58:02.099
the Congressional Black Caucus event in September, we do a number of solutions

01:58:02.099 --> 01:58:05.759
sessions around important issues for our community.

01:58:05.759 --> 01:58:09.879
And we would love to have folks come in and participate and be a part of this

01:58:09.879 --> 01:58:12.379
larger movement that we're building.

01:58:13.219 --> 01:58:18.259
If I were to say something to try to leave folks with a sense of inspiration,

01:58:18.839 --> 01:58:22.899
I mean, I would just, my mantra, my mantra is that, you know, the universe is mental.

01:58:23.059 --> 01:58:27.199
And what I mean by that is your life is a manifestation of your most dominant

01:58:27.199 --> 01:58:30.179
thoughts, brother. What you think on grows.

01:58:30.739 --> 01:58:36.559
I feel like all this around me exists to just reinforce the things that I am

01:58:36.559 --> 01:58:41.519
thinking, that I am expecting and that I am feeling on on a daily basis.

01:58:41.919 --> 01:58:47.019
And having a victor mentality.

01:58:47.599 --> 01:58:52.559
In a system which is designed to work that way, as opposed to having a victim

01:58:52.559 --> 01:58:57.619
mentality in a system which is designed to multiply more of what I already am,

01:58:57.879 --> 01:59:04.979
I just go into life on a daily basis, man, with a sense of whatever I set my mind to is achievable.

01:59:05.099 --> 01:59:11.859
And I think to the degree to which more folks within our community really understood what,

01:59:12.367 --> 01:59:20.467
their own inherent power and their own inherent ability to see their expectations

01:59:20.467 --> 01:59:22.707
manifest in their own lives,

01:59:22.707 --> 01:59:28.167
I think it would put us in a decidedly different state and in a decidedly different position.

01:59:28.647 --> 01:59:33.407
I mean, government is critical. It plays a very powerful role in our lives.

01:59:33.547 --> 01:59:38.287
But I also believe that we have tremendous personal agency within ourselves

01:59:38.287 --> 01:59:42.727
as well. And when we turn on that light, that sense of possibility,

01:59:43.307 --> 01:59:48.247
that sense of inevitability, we make incredible things happen in our lives.

01:59:48.367 --> 01:59:53.067
So I just encourage people to take charge and to realize that anything that

01:59:53.067 --> 01:59:58.987
you put your mind to consistently and in earnest, you can see it manifest in

01:59:58.987 --> 02:00:01.907
your life, brother. And I think that's our role.

02:00:02.267 --> 02:00:05.967
And those who we elect into high office have a role, too.

02:00:06.227 --> 02:00:10.647
But the more we're empowered, I think the more we make this system ultimately

02:00:10.647 --> 02:00:13.407
become what we know it can be. Yeah.

02:00:14.307 --> 02:00:17.707
Well, Brother Darius Jones, thank you for that. And thank you for coming on.

02:00:18.607 --> 02:00:22.207
I have a lot of respect for you, brother. Likewise.

02:00:22.587 --> 02:00:27.647
Even though we just now meeting, you know, you can follow people from afar.

02:00:28.207 --> 02:00:31.827
And so when I when I got the word that you would be able to come on,

02:00:31.947 --> 02:00:37.627
I was very, very excited about that. And if you, you know, anytime you want

02:00:37.627 --> 02:00:39.527
to, so my rule is, now that you've

02:00:39.527 --> 02:00:43.187
been on the show, anytime you want to come back on, you let me know.

02:00:43.847 --> 02:00:48.187
So in your chest and all that stuff, you know, you just, just let me know and

02:00:48.187 --> 02:00:49.807
we'll make, make that happen for you.

02:00:50.227 --> 02:00:53.127
All right. Be careful what you wish for, bro. Oh, no.

02:00:53.307 --> 02:00:56.247
Look, you're not the first one to say that, but I'm telling you,

02:00:56.387 --> 02:01:01.907
it's like, I mean it because, you know, this is, this is, dialogue is important.

02:01:01.907 --> 02:01:08.187
And I think the more people are exposed to folks that are doing the work like

02:01:08.187 --> 02:01:12.927
you, the better we can be in the community, if nothing else,

02:01:12.947 --> 02:01:16.227
that we have hope that things are going in the right direction.

02:01:16.787 --> 02:01:23.427
So, again, I just thank you for coming on the podcast, and I appreciate the work that you're doing.

02:01:23.727 --> 02:01:26.467
You're doing what you do, man. Keep being a guiding light, man.

02:01:26.627 --> 02:01:28.887
We need folks like you. I appreciate that.

02:01:29.147 --> 02:01:31.347
All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

02:01:31.967 --> 02:01:33.047
All right, man. God bless.

02:01:33.200 --> 02:01:43.760
Music.

02:01:45.185 --> 02:01:50.585
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Lewis Williams, Ashley T.

02:01:50.765 --> 02:01:54.185
Martin and Darius Jones for taking the time to come on the podcast.

02:01:54.765 --> 02:01:58.865
And again, I hope that you have learned something from them.

02:01:58.865 --> 02:02:06.865
And these individuals, to me, Miss Martin, I've worked with before.

02:02:07.405 --> 02:02:11.365
The other two brothers, it was the first time we had met. But.

02:02:11.925 --> 02:02:14.425
You know, I felt some kind of connection with them.

02:02:14.925 --> 02:02:18.885
You know, we're all around the same age. I think Brother Lewis is a little older.

02:02:19.145 --> 02:02:23.525
Brother Darius is a little younger. But, you know, Black men in America that's

02:02:23.525 --> 02:02:25.025
lived in the North and the South,

02:02:25.465 --> 02:02:37.285
you know, So we have certain kinship stories, and I respect them for being good

02:02:37.285 --> 02:02:39.785
at what they do, and then especially Ms.

02:02:39.845 --> 02:02:47.905
Ashley as well, being good at what they do. and be willing to explain things

02:02:47.905 --> 02:02:57.445
in a way where their experience translates to what needs to be done from a political sense.

02:02:57.585 --> 02:03:05.945
Because, you know, I don't care if you're an actor or athlete or professor or

02:03:05.945 --> 02:03:08.285
whatever, this is a political show.

02:03:08.285 --> 02:03:11.745
And if I've asked you to come on, you've agreed to come on,

02:03:11.905 --> 02:03:18.825
then whatever contribution you're offering to society has an impact on politics,

02:03:18.825 --> 02:03:24.305
just like politics has an impact on everything that you do in life. Right.

02:03:24.785 --> 02:03:31.065
And so I'm always, you know, for those of you who listen to the podcast all

02:03:31.065 --> 02:03:35.265
these years, you know that I always try to make that connection.

02:03:35.265 --> 02:03:39.085
And for those who've known me as far as being an elected official or just a

02:03:39.085 --> 02:03:43.785
politician, period, I've always tried to make that connection so people understand

02:03:43.785 --> 02:03:46.225
that politics is in everything else.

02:03:47.648 --> 02:03:52.308
In America, every aspect of our life, politics is involved in it.

02:03:52.608 --> 02:03:59.388
It might be benign to you, but politics played a role, some way, shape, or form.

02:03:59.688 --> 02:04:07.048
And so I just thank those three people for honoring the invitation and coming

02:04:07.048 --> 02:04:09.988
on, and hopefully you got something from them.

02:04:10.428 --> 02:04:14.708
There's a lot of things I could talk about. There's a lot of things that's on my mind.

02:04:14.828 --> 02:04:19.848
I know as I'm recording this, the big thing that's going on is the fact that

02:04:19.848 --> 02:04:26.768
the bromance is over between the most powerful man in the world and the richest man in the world.

02:04:28.728 --> 02:04:31.728
And, well, a lot of us, we knew that day was coming.

02:04:33.248 --> 02:04:37.728
We knew it was going to happen. We didn't know when, but we knew it was going to eventually happen.

02:04:38.728 --> 02:04:47.328
And it's interesting that it's happening over public policy about a particular piece of legislation.

02:04:48.768 --> 02:04:53.668
So, you know, it is what it is. It wasn't about style or it wasn't about,

02:04:54.128 --> 02:04:56.368
well, it's always going to be about ego with them.

02:04:56.368 --> 02:05:03.608
But it really came down to a fundamental disagreement about public policy,

02:05:03.608 --> 02:05:08.108
which in some sense, it's crazy it might sound,

02:05:08.608 --> 02:05:16.688
encouraging that these two individuals who have a very unique distinction in

02:05:16.688 --> 02:05:19.268
our world, let alone in our country,

02:05:19.808 --> 02:05:24.868
have split over a public policy issue.

02:05:26.368 --> 02:05:32.728
You know, and that's really kind of the way it should be if it's going to happen.

02:05:32.968 --> 02:05:34.608
Shouldn't be about personality.

02:05:34.888 --> 02:05:39.788
Shouldn't be about extramarital affairs. It shouldn't be about corruption.

02:05:40.488 --> 02:05:43.968
You know, I guess in the sense it's kind of like corruption, but not, you know.

02:05:44.868 --> 02:05:49.328
But it's really about the fundamental difference about public policy.

02:05:50.888 --> 02:05:55.208
And so I'm going to take that as encouraging, not as a Democrat saying,

02:05:55.408 --> 02:05:56.288
oh, the Republicans are divided.

02:05:56.368 --> 02:06:04.388
No, that two of the most unique people on the planet are having a real debate,

02:06:04.708 --> 02:06:08.748
a heated debate, a split even, over an issue.

02:06:09.948 --> 02:06:16.188
And listening to some of the people in the Republican Party that's kind of looking

02:06:16.188 --> 02:06:20.948
at that and like, how is that going to impact my election or what I should do?

02:06:21.868 --> 02:06:26.028
You know, it's kind of like a moment of introspection.

02:06:26.728 --> 02:06:32.628
I think they're circling the wagons and they're going to try to maintain as

02:06:32.628 --> 02:06:36.048
many seats as they can in the House and the Senate on 26.

02:06:38.128 --> 02:06:43.568
But, you know, you actually had somebody look at the president of the United

02:06:43.568 --> 02:06:45.468
States and say, I don't agree with that.

02:06:46.766 --> 02:06:51.886
And I think that's, you know, we saw that the last time the president was in office.

02:06:53.246 --> 02:06:58.066
And now we're really seeing somebody that is saying and putting a foot down

02:06:58.066 --> 02:06:59.666
and said, no, we shouldn't do that.

02:07:00.306 --> 02:07:04.386
And people now are going to have to really start making a decision.

02:07:04.386 --> 02:07:07.266
Do you agree with the no or do you agree with the yes?

02:07:08.106 --> 02:07:10.866
And that's the way it should be in politics, right?

02:07:11.326 --> 02:07:18.466
That's the way it should be. It should be about honest debate about what direction

02:07:18.466 --> 02:07:19.786
you want the country to go.

02:07:21.586 --> 02:07:27.026
And if the leaders show that, then the electorate will follow and make a decision

02:07:27.026 --> 02:07:29.106
which direction you want the country to go.

02:07:29.266 --> 02:07:33.526
You'll vote for the person that you believe will take you where we need to be.

02:07:34.206 --> 02:07:35.726
That's all we can ask for.

02:07:36.726 --> 02:07:40.866
Intelligent debate. Somebody saying this is the way we go and somebody say,

02:07:41.026 --> 02:07:44.306
no, let's not do that. That's all we can ask for.

02:07:45.506 --> 02:07:49.806
And whatever side you're on, you hope your side prevails, right?

02:07:50.846 --> 02:07:57.206
And as we start hammering out how this government's going to work,

02:07:57.246 --> 02:07:59.886
we still have those debates.

02:08:00.386 --> 02:08:05.086
It's not one side dominating the other side to the point where they're trying

02:08:05.086 --> 02:08:09.046
to make them irrelevant or disrespect them, right?

02:08:09.926 --> 02:08:18.206
So that's that. You know, I'm not in it for the reality TV factor on it.

02:08:18.446 --> 02:08:22.506
I'm here for, huh, that's actually refreshing.

02:08:23.046 --> 02:08:26.986
That two of the most distinguished, if you want to say that,

02:08:27.346 --> 02:08:29.666
by virtue of their positions, they're distinguished.

02:08:30.746 --> 02:08:34.906
Individuals in this nation are having a real disagreement in public.

02:08:35.766 --> 02:08:39.986
That means it should be okay for us to have disagreements in public.

02:08:39.986 --> 02:08:43.846
Now, I don't think we should be petty about it, but I think we need to have

02:08:43.846 --> 02:08:48.366
disagreements, because if we have a discussion, then we can get to a solution,

02:08:48.726 --> 02:08:51.946
not just arguing for arguing's sake, right?

02:08:52.966 --> 02:08:56.806
Which leads me to my closing point.

02:08:57.346 --> 02:09:01.306
So I'm going to start off. This is from Wikipedia.

02:09:02.146 --> 02:09:10.146
John Neely Kennedy, born November 21st, 1951, is an American politician and

02:09:10.146 --> 02:09:14.526
attorney who has served as a junior United States senator from Louisiana since 2017.

02:09:15.326 --> 02:09:21.506
A Republican, he served as Louisiana state treasurer from 2000 to 2017.

02:09:21.946 --> 02:09:27.366
As secretary of the Louisiana Department of Revenue from 1996 to 99,

02:09:27.866 --> 02:09:34.606
and as special counsel and then cabinet member to Governor Buddy Romer from 1988 to 1992.

02:09:35.246 --> 02:09:39.686
One of the most important things in the article that says he is not related

02:09:39.686 --> 02:09:42.746
to President John F. Kennedy. Thank God.

02:09:44.156 --> 02:09:47.136
And you'll understand when I go into my rant. The other thing I wanted to point

02:09:47.136 --> 02:09:50.556
out about him is that he was born in Centerville, Mississippi.

02:09:50.736 --> 02:09:55.016
And if you know anything about Mississippi, he probably thought he was in Louisiana anyway.

02:09:56.376 --> 02:10:00.916
That's just a joke that we Mississippi is. Like down in that part of that southwest

02:10:00.916 --> 02:10:03.656
corner of the state, you know, they get Baton Rouge TV.

02:10:03.896 --> 02:10:07.576
So a lot of them, you have to remind them, no, no, you're in Mississippi.

02:10:08.456 --> 02:10:13.056
So you got to deal with stuff here. He graduated from Vanderbilt University

02:10:13.056 --> 02:10:18.096
and the University of Virginia Law School before attending Oxford University.

02:10:18.736 --> 02:10:23.236
Yeah, across the pond, other side of the water, he went to Oxford.

02:10:25.316 --> 02:10:29.556
So why am I doing an intro for this guy?

02:10:31.216 --> 02:10:40.236
Because he is one of the reasons why I don't like this modern-day crop of politicians.

02:10:40.896 --> 02:10:46.596
Now, you've heard me get on Nancy Mace and Marjorie Taylor Greene and all that stuff, Lauren Boebert,

02:10:46.716 --> 02:10:55.536
and there's some other men, but this guy, this guy is really the epitome of

02:10:55.536 --> 02:10:57.816
what we have had to deal with.

02:10:57.816 --> 02:11:05.276
And, you know, it's like, so y'all remember, some of y'all may remember the Looney Tunes cartoons.

02:11:06.076 --> 02:11:10.356
And you remember they had this chicken who was supposed to be from the South,

02:11:10.516 --> 02:11:11.976
Foghorn Leghorn, right?

02:11:12.636 --> 02:11:18.176
That's him. He is the living version of that. I say that, I say that, boy.

02:11:18.936 --> 02:11:23.896
He's that dude. I don't even know if he really talks like he talks in public,

02:11:24.136 --> 02:11:28.636
in private. But, you know, in the public persona, he's all wild. Yeah.

02:11:28.916 --> 02:11:36.476
Well, you know, and it would be humorous if he wasn't such a butthole.

02:11:36.896 --> 02:11:41.976
Right. And there's two things that really, really tick me off about him.

02:11:42.116 --> 02:11:44.276
I mean, it's a lot of things.

02:11:44.916 --> 02:11:48.836
One, he was a Democrat before he was a Republican. So, you know,

02:11:49.136 --> 02:11:54.896
there's that. He did that typical, oh, I got to stay in good with the country

02:11:54.896 --> 02:11:57.856
club folks, so I got to switch parties, right?

02:11:58.896 --> 02:12:02.656
So you already know the character in that deal.

02:12:03.576 --> 02:12:12.016
But then when this whole thing with the Israeli-Hamas conflict started,

02:12:12.676 --> 02:12:18.176
And again, I appreciate Brother Darius for coming on and talking about some

02:12:18.176 --> 02:12:22.616
of the anti-Semitism that's been going on because of that.

02:12:23.910 --> 02:12:32.070
But, you know, I'm not, well, first of all, I'm educated enough to know that,

02:12:32.370 --> 02:12:40.430
you know, even though the vernacular of our language equates anti-Semitism to being anti-Jewish.

02:12:40.750 --> 02:12:46.190
If you understand history, if you understand knowledge, if you are prejudiced

02:12:46.190 --> 02:12:49.270
toward Palestinian people, technically you're anti-Semitic too.

02:12:49.630 --> 02:12:53.510
Because all of those people in that region are Semites.

02:12:54.110 --> 02:12:58.690
You don't believe me, just grab a Bible and kind of start from Genesis and work

02:12:58.690 --> 02:13:00.830
your way through and you'll figure it out, right?

02:13:01.890 --> 02:13:05.830
Or just Google it, right?

02:13:07.070 --> 02:13:12.850
But, you know, for the term that, you know, I want to deal with Kennedy,

02:13:13.050 --> 02:13:20.050
he did something really, really egregious, which, you know, in this era of politics

02:13:20.050 --> 02:13:21.470
is just flat out terrible.

02:13:21.470 --> 02:13:27.750
And that's the lady, it was a lady who I think she was president of the Arab

02:13:27.750 --> 02:13:32.290
League or one of those big Arab organizations, right?

02:13:33.250 --> 02:13:39.010
And instead of, because first of all, when you invite, when you're a member

02:13:39.010 --> 02:13:44.090
of Congress and you're a committee and you invite people to take time out of

02:13:44.090 --> 02:13:47.190
their schedule to testify before the United States Congress,

02:13:48.250 --> 02:13:52.930
You are calling, you're supposed to be calling them up based on their expertise.

02:13:52.930 --> 02:13:56.450
Just like I have guests on my podcast based on their expertise.

02:13:57.730 --> 02:14:00.970
I'm, you know, they're supposed to be calling these people up.

02:14:01.110 --> 02:14:04.830
And whether you agree with their positions or not, because they are experts,

02:14:04.830 --> 02:14:09.150
you bring them forward to present their side. Right.

02:14:09.670 --> 02:14:14.270
And you have the right to interrogate them. You have the right to question some

02:14:14.270 --> 02:14:19.210
of the beliefs that they have. but you don't have the right to be downright disrespectful.

02:14:20.750 --> 02:14:24.990
You don't have the right to be a racist butthole. You do not.

02:14:25.710 --> 02:14:31.930
And John Neely Kennedy is that foghorn leghorn racist butthole.

02:14:32.370 --> 02:14:36.570
And I usually don't get into it like that, but it's just, oh my God.

02:14:37.490 --> 02:14:44.570
It's just, he's just a glaring example outside of current leadership in the

02:14:44.570 --> 02:14:50.810
White House and all that. But he's, people like that should not have comfort.

02:14:51.250 --> 02:14:54.750
People like that, if they want respect, they need to give it.

02:14:57.070 --> 02:15:06.230
And I implore every black Louisiana and Gary Chambers will do his part to make

02:15:06.230 --> 02:15:07.530
sure that y'all get out and vote.

02:15:07.750 --> 02:15:11.410
Please listen to Gary. When Gary is knocking on your door, please answer.

02:15:11.410 --> 02:15:15.850
If he says register to vote, register, because then you can get people like

02:15:15.850 --> 02:15:21.670
John Neely Kennedy out where they don't serve in public office anymore, right?

02:15:21.670 --> 02:15:26.090
If black people in Louisiana came out to vote, if black people in Louisiana

02:15:26.090 --> 02:15:33.050
registered to vote, like black people in Georgia registered to vote, right?

02:15:34.390 --> 02:15:39.150
Then you can get Brother Neely out, Neely Kennedy, you can get him out.

02:15:39.970 --> 02:15:43.030
And I say brother in the Christian sense Because I'm supposed to love everybody,

02:15:44.534 --> 02:15:49.514
but you can get him out, let him go back to Louisiana, maybe even go back to

02:15:49.514 --> 02:15:55.134
Centerville and just live a quiet existence and not be disrespectful to anybody

02:15:55.134 --> 02:15:56.474
in his presence ever again.

02:15:57.274 --> 02:16:01.654
But he got up in front of this lady, so the lady now accepts the invitation

02:16:01.654 --> 02:16:04.994
to come. And you know it's a tumultuous time.

02:16:06.294 --> 02:16:13.814
So when she gets up there, he says, well, you support Hamas, don't you?

02:16:14.674 --> 02:16:19.754
And he started going. And before she could answer, he wanted he had a routine he wanted to do.

02:16:19.914 --> 02:16:23.134
And every time she was ready to answer, he said, well, I've got to move on.

02:16:23.794 --> 02:16:26.974
So if you're not going to ask a question the way you're supposed to do it in

02:16:26.974 --> 02:16:29.634
Congress, whether you're in the Senate or House, if you're not going to ask

02:16:29.634 --> 02:16:32.134
a question, then you can use your time to make a statement.

02:16:33.074 --> 02:16:37.694
Now, you can direct that at the person, but you're not asking him a question.

02:16:37.694 --> 02:16:40.814
You're making a statement based on the issue that's going forward.

02:16:40.814 --> 02:16:48.034
If you ask them a question, then your mic should be cut off and allow them to answer the question.

02:16:48.854 --> 02:16:51.114
That's how I would handle it if I was the chair of the committee.

02:16:51.234 --> 02:16:52.854
I don't matter, Democrat or Republican.

02:16:53.334 --> 02:16:57.174
It's like you as soon as I hear something that sounds like the question mark

02:16:57.174 --> 02:17:00.354
has been added to the sentence. Bam, you're on mute.

02:17:00.674 --> 02:17:03.654
I want to hear from the person that you asked the question to,

02:17:03.834 --> 02:17:08.354
because as a member of the committee, regardless, I want to hear the answer.

02:17:09.194 --> 02:17:15.114
Again, it may not be aligned with my political position, but if we subpoena,

02:17:15.214 --> 02:17:19.394
if my staff has subpoenaed this person to show up, then I want to hear what they have to say.

02:17:19.914 --> 02:17:23.214
I hear you every day. I work with you every day.

02:17:23.914 --> 02:17:27.934
I don't need to hear you. I need to hear this person that I may never ever see

02:17:27.934 --> 02:17:31.254
again in life because they took the time to show up in Washington,

02:17:31.354 --> 02:17:34.434
D.C., whether they work in Washington, D.C. or not.

02:17:34.574 --> 02:17:38.154
They showed up at the Capitol to testify. So I want to hear them testify.

02:17:39.054 --> 02:17:44.774
I don't want to hear, well, and then you cut them off. I don't want to hear that. All right.

02:17:45.474 --> 02:17:51.074
So anyway, he asked her. And so she's trying to give the answer and all this stuff.

02:17:51.174 --> 02:17:55.654
Now, she's offended because she realizes the only reason why he's asking these

02:17:55.654 --> 02:18:04.174
questions about Hamas or Hezbollah or Anwar or Iran is because she's Arab. That's it.

02:18:05.394 --> 02:18:12.554
Has nothing to do with, you know, whether, you know, her position is.

02:18:12.674 --> 02:18:17.474
It's just the fact that she is Arab, automatically she is a terrorist.

02:18:17.614 --> 02:18:20.354
That's basically what he was trying to paint at, right?

02:18:21.254 --> 02:18:27.474
And if you watch that testimony, she basically denounces Hamas.

02:18:27.614 --> 02:18:31.354
She denounces Hezbollah. She denounces Iran.

02:18:32.822 --> 02:18:37.362
The only thing she defended was UNWAR because she felt that UNWAR's funding

02:18:37.362 --> 02:18:42.722
shouldn't have been taken away because nine people did something corrupt.

02:18:43.562 --> 02:18:49.502
And it was the Biden administration who actually shut UNWAR down when they found out what was going on.

02:18:50.182 --> 02:18:58.162
And because there was there was a belief and I think it was proven that some

02:18:58.162 --> 02:19:01.822
people that were working on NWAR were actually connected with Hamas and connected

02:19:01.822 --> 02:19:05.342
with the attack on October 7th. So Biden shut that down.

02:19:05.742 --> 02:19:12.202
And then Trump and Elon Musk took all the money from him because it was their

02:19:12.202 --> 02:19:15.482
turn to determine whether it was going to be reinstated. Right.

02:19:16.822 --> 02:19:22.682
So that was the only thing she was really trying to defend was that UNWAR was

02:19:22.682 --> 02:19:26.022
bigger than those individuals who had screwed up. Right.

02:19:26.382 --> 02:19:31.222
And that there really needed to be a funding mechanism to make sure that people,

02:19:32.322 --> 02:19:38.322
Palestinian people, you know, got aid when they needed it. Right.

02:19:40.242 --> 02:19:43.182
And you could have just had that discussion about

02:19:43.182 --> 02:19:46.722
that and that would have been valid but to

02:19:46.722 --> 02:19:50.102
disparage her character and and then grandstand

02:19:50.102 --> 02:19:52.982
and just just feel you could see he

02:19:52.982 --> 02:19:59.002
was filling himself with the smirks and all just the pompous arrogance it was

02:19:59.002 --> 02:20:05.142
very very insulting I'm not even here and I was insulted I was livid I was like

02:20:05.142 --> 02:20:10.482
I would have walked out if you're not going to allow me to answer the question, why am I here? Right.

02:20:11.022 --> 02:20:16.682
And then he did something just recently with a college professor and you brought

02:20:16.682 --> 02:20:24.282
her in to talk about habeas corpus and about y'all want to introduce some legislation

02:20:24.282 --> 02:20:28.402
to stop judges from doing nationwide injunctions. Right.

02:20:29.042 --> 02:20:37.602
And Senator Kennedy told the professor, well, I don't, I discount everything that you say.

02:20:38.502 --> 02:20:44.262
Again, my retort would have been, well, why the hell did you have me come to Washington, D.C.

02:20:44.502 --> 02:20:47.002
If you don't give a damn about what I have to say?

02:20:47.582 --> 02:20:52.182
You could have said that anywhere you wanted to.

02:20:52.822 --> 02:20:57.542
I didn't have to waste my time and my money to fly to Washington, D.C.

02:20:58.182 --> 02:21:00.522
For you to tell me you don't want to hear what I got to say.

02:21:01.102 --> 02:21:04.202
You could never, you don't have to hear anything I could say because I could

02:21:04.202 --> 02:21:07.902
have stayed where I was because I think she's based out of New York or something.

02:21:08.102 --> 02:21:09.442
I could have stayed in New York.

02:21:10.750 --> 02:21:13.890
I don't know if it's New York, Chicago, somewhere, but she's not based in D.C. I know that.

02:21:15.510 --> 02:21:21.050
And I could have stayed where I was. In my case, Atlanta. I could have stayed in Atlanta.

02:21:22.550 --> 02:21:25.830
And everything had been fine. Since you're not going to pay attention to what

02:21:25.830 --> 02:21:28.190
I say anyway, why the hell did you bring me up here?

02:21:29.090 --> 02:21:33.450
Because you wanted to have a moment where you wanted to dress down a college professor?

02:21:33.770 --> 02:21:39.270
Because you wanted to dress down somebody that was a person of color? Right? Right.

02:21:40.050 --> 02:21:45.110
The hell with you. You're not that important. You are a terrible example of

02:21:45.110 --> 02:21:47.190
what a United States senator should be.

02:21:47.510 --> 02:21:50.910
I don't care what state you're from. I don't care if you're from Louisiana,

02:21:51.190 --> 02:21:56.570
Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Illinois, Montana, Wyoming. It don't matter.

02:21:57.370 --> 02:22:02.250
There's supposed to be a standard for those 100 people. The whole reason why

02:22:02.250 --> 02:22:08.610
the Senate was created was to have a balance between the House of Representatives,

02:22:08.870 --> 02:22:13.750
which is based on the population, based on the people, and the Senate,

02:22:13.870 --> 02:22:16.130
which is supposed to kind of temper things out.

02:22:16.690 --> 02:22:23.530
But when you act like a fool, then that is a disservice to the position of the

02:22:23.530 --> 02:22:26.510
United States Senate. Period. End of discussion.

02:22:27.530 --> 02:22:31.990
Now, I don't plan on living in Louisiana. I'm not going to ever vote for or against you.

02:22:32.690 --> 02:22:37.210
Right. But I know there's some people in Louisiana that do listen to this podcast.

02:22:37.890 --> 02:22:42.310
And I pray that Gary Chambers and all the other folks that are organizing and

02:22:42.310 --> 02:22:45.990
doing work in Louisiana do their best to get you out.

02:22:46.530 --> 02:22:49.930
I don't care if it's another Republican. I don't care if it's a Democrat.

02:22:50.090 --> 02:22:51.510
I don't care if it's independent.

02:22:51.810 --> 02:22:57.070
I don't care if it's Jill Stein. You got to go because you obviously do not

02:22:57.070 --> 02:22:59.390
understand the magnitude of the position you're in.

02:22:59.670 --> 02:23:04.870
And the less people we have of you, the better chance we have of having people

02:23:04.870 --> 02:23:09.030
with dignity, class and understand what American leadership is.

02:23:10.010 --> 02:23:15.390
These are the type of folks we got to get rid of. We got to get these people out of office, right?

02:23:16.210 --> 02:23:21.310
Because it's like even when disaster struck in Louisiana, I think it was when

02:23:21.310 --> 02:23:27.950
the person with the truck ran over all those people during the New Year's Eve

02:23:27.950 --> 02:23:31.090
celebration, like right before the bowl games and stuff,

02:23:31.850 --> 02:23:34.010
killed all those innocent folks.

02:23:35.317 --> 02:23:38.657
The sheriff, who happens to be, I think, the chief of police,

02:23:38.877 --> 02:23:41.057
you know, law enforcement, they were people of color.

02:23:41.797 --> 02:23:44.917
Women, by the way, it seems like he's got a real problem with women, too.

02:23:45.997 --> 02:23:49.617
But it's like they're sitting there talking about what's going on and all the

02:23:49.617 --> 02:23:51.117
questions are going to them.

02:23:51.257 --> 02:23:53.997
And then he just literally does a Montenegro.

02:23:54.157 --> 02:23:58.977
And if you don't know what a Montenegro is, when Donald Trump went to NATO the

02:23:58.977 --> 02:24:04.197
first time and he wasn't in the front of the line for the group picture,

02:24:04.197 --> 02:24:07.957
He literally grabbed the shoulder of the president of Montenegro and pushed

02:24:07.957 --> 02:24:09.997
him aside and jumped to the front of the line.

02:24:10.337 --> 02:24:14.977
So I call that the Montenegro, the move, because it's like, you know,

02:24:15.137 --> 02:24:19.297
you just basically did a Montenegro and push these law enforcement who know

02:24:19.297 --> 02:24:21.477
more about the situation than you'll ever know.

02:24:22.057 --> 02:24:27.177
You push them aside just so you get to the microphone and just bluster about what.

02:24:27.837 --> 02:24:33.717
This was your last shot at Biden because the election was over. We're about to do this.

02:24:34.197 --> 02:24:36.277
You know, transition to power.

02:24:36.957 --> 02:24:44.057
But you want to blame Biden for this dude driving a truck through Bourbon Street, the French Quarter.

02:24:44.817 --> 02:24:47.797
See, that's the kind of ignorance we can't afford to have.

02:24:47.977 --> 02:24:53.717
That's why it's hard for people that come on this podcast and trying to do the

02:24:53.717 --> 02:24:59.357
work and build community up, because we got to deal with elected officials like you, Mr. Kennedy.

02:25:00.157 --> 02:25:08.657
And it's just sad as you saw it as you saw it it really is sad you know and

02:25:08.657 --> 02:25:10.317
I get it I wanted to be a U.S.

02:25:10.337 --> 02:25:16.997
Senator I ran twice I understand the prestige of the position but.

02:25:18.780 --> 02:25:22.800
I don't think buttholes should be given a position of prestige.

02:25:23.600 --> 02:25:27.260
I think you need to be given a position appropriate with your character.

02:25:28.080 --> 02:25:34.220
Whatever it is, it's not the United States. And I've just been frustrated.

02:25:34.400 --> 02:25:38.600
But then I remember that I started this podcast because I was frustrated with

02:25:38.600 --> 02:25:40.060
what President Trump was doing.

02:25:40.280 --> 02:25:44.320
And I just used to vent and just used to gripe. And then my friend said, do a podcast.

02:25:44.960 --> 02:25:49.540
And so I noticed that I've really not been dealing with individuals and all

02:25:49.540 --> 02:25:58.360
that stuff, but I had to go back to my roots because every time I see this guy, he just aggravates me.

02:25:58.500 --> 02:26:04.840
If he was a member of the legislature when I served, I would try to avoid him as much as possible.

02:26:05.560 --> 02:26:09.640
He was representing Amit or Wilkerson County. I was like, bro,

02:26:09.740 --> 02:26:12.480
y'all got to send somebody else to talk to me about what y'all need because

02:26:12.480 --> 02:26:13.720
I'm not dealing with him.

02:26:14.380 --> 02:26:19.640
I wouldn't vote for nothing if it was based off of him because he's such a pain.

02:26:20.240 --> 02:26:23.560
And I'm sure there's some people in the Senate, Democrats and Republicans,

02:26:23.720 --> 02:26:28.200
oh, well, you know, you just don't really know the guy and he's this and he's that, bro.

02:26:28.920 --> 02:26:33.120
Every time he's on camera and he shows his ass, that's him.

02:26:33.860 --> 02:26:38.900
That's who he is. And I think it's a disservice to the people of Louisiana and

02:26:38.900 --> 02:26:43.500
a disservice to the people of the United States of America that you are allowed

02:26:43.500 --> 02:26:45.200
to carry yourself in that way.

02:26:45.740 --> 02:26:50.000
Now, there's others that I can get to. Right.

02:26:50.800 --> 02:26:56.060
But this one, I guess because he's from the South, that's why it just,

02:26:56.320 --> 02:27:00.780
oh, I just cannot stand them type of Southern people.

02:27:01.460 --> 02:27:07.120
And Miss Jane, I'm trying, I'm trying. So, you know, he's non-melanated,

02:27:07.380 --> 02:27:10.360
he's melanonic, he's my light-skinned cousin.

02:27:12.020 --> 02:27:16.900
I just can't stand Southerners like that. You know, it just goes back to the

02:27:16.900 --> 02:27:20.080
when I was 11 and watched Roots.

02:27:20.220 --> 02:27:24.280
You know what I'm saying? It goes back to all the documentaries I used to watch,

02:27:24.420 --> 02:27:27.980
even the fictionalized movies like Mississippi Burning and A Time to Kill.

02:27:28.140 --> 02:27:31.140
Just those kind of people, those southerners.

02:27:32.760 --> 02:27:37.440
They're perfect villains. And we don't need villains in the United States Senate.

02:27:37.580 --> 02:27:43.160
We don't. I don't want to wish ill on anybody, but I do think that people that

02:27:43.160 --> 02:27:48.240
don't deserve to be in office do not need to be in office. Good people lose elections.

02:27:48.840 --> 02:27:51.480
Bad people definitely should lose elections.

02:27:52.140 --> 02:27:56.240
Period. End of discussion. If it's a battle between the two good people,

02:27:56.560 --> 02:27:57.600
you know, best person wins.

02:27:58.859 --> 02:28:02.179
But if it's the difference between a good person and a bad person,

02:28:02.299 --> 02:28:08.719
the bad person should lose every time, even if they fool people into thinking

02:28:08.719 --> 02:28:10.299
that they're good, right?

02:28:10.739 --> 02:28:18.539
Because I don't see what could he say as he's campaigning that makes you think,

02:28:18.679 --> 02:28:21.259
oh, yeah, this is the guy, right?

02:28:21.259 --> 02:28:28.039
I used to love to go and listen to other colleagues give their stump speeches

02:28:28.039 --> 02:28:33.019
in their respected district or just visit and watch them talking to a group or whatever.

02:28:33.299 --> 02:28:39.399
So I kind of had a sense about, OK, that's how that person got elected.

02:28:39.539 --> 02:28:41.479
I see how they roll, you know.

02:28:41.999 --> 02:28:47.839
So I just want to imagine because I'm sure there's people that he's I mean, he's got family.

02:28:48.039 --> 02:28:51.919
So family loves them. Family loves everybody. Family loves family,

02:28:51.939 --> 02:28:53.579
for the most part. That's how it works.

02:28:54.679 --> 02:28:58.079
So I know there's people that love him. I know there's people that went to school

02:28:58.079 --> 02:29:01.879
with him. They're friends. Excuse me.

02:29:03.619 --> 02:29:09.579
So somewhere he has the capability of being a normal human being,

02:29:10.119 --> 02:29:16.299
except when he gets into that chair in the Senate or he gets in front of a microphone.

02:29:17.239 --> 02:29:22.939
And then this beast comes out, this evil person who has no empathy,

02:29:23.299 --> 02:29:27.419
no care, no respect for persons.

02:29:28.179 --> 02:29:30.219
And he's probably a smart dude.

02:29:31.636 --> 02:29:38.416
I, you know, I'm just, I'm just, you know, but not every smart person needs

02:29:38.416 --> 02:29:43.856
to be elected because there's a lot of smart people that don't know how to deal

02:29:43.856 --> 02:29:44.996
with other human beings.

02:29:46.336 --> 02:29:51.656
They just don't. And it just bothers me because I remember, you know,

02:29:51.816 --> 02:29:56.236
when I was an elected official, you know, it was like, Fleming, you're a hothead.

02:29:56.536 --> 02:30:00.116
I literally had somebody call when I was moving to Atlanta. Now,

02:30:01.156 --> 02:30:05.216
somebody called an elected official, I guess, because they thought I was going

02:30:05.216 --> 02:30:09.416
to try to get a lobbying job and basically said, well, you know,

02:30:09.616 --> 02:30:11.316
that Fleming kid, he's a hothead.

02:30:12.176 --> 02:30:16.896
You know what I'm saying? Now, you know, I have my moments. I ain't going to lie.

02:30:17.976 --> 02:30:22.216
You know, I get you can tell from even this little rant I'm doing now.

02:30:22.456 --> 02:30:25.456
I could go if I need to, you know.

02:30:26.296 --> 02:30:33.016
But I wasn't to the point where I was unreasonable with people when it came to policy and politics.

02:30:33.896 --> 02:30:38.736
You might have thought that if you were on the opposite side, but I really wasn't.

02:30:40.176 --> 02:30:45.296
But I know I wasn't perfect. And I didn't get to stay for 20-some years in office either.

02:30:45.576 --> 02:30:49.176
It was like after nine years that people made a decision, it was time for me to move on.

02:30:49.976 --> 02:30:54.576
I was very fortunate to be elected official for nine years. I was very fortunate

02:30:54.576 --> 02:31:00.176
to be the Democratic nominee twice for the United States Senate and,

02:31:00.176 --> 02:31:02.056
you know, to get the votes that I got.

02:31:02.856 --> 02:31:06.756
But I know I'm not perfect. And I'm self-conscious about that.

02:31:07.236 --> 02:31:11.876
And I try to do my best to be my best. Right?

02:31:13.243 --> 02:31:18.643
But when you're not making the effort, when you just are too comfortable in

02:31:18.643 --> 02:31:23.463
your absurdity, then it's time for you to go because that's not what the United

02:31:23.463 --> 02:31:24.723
States Senate is set up for.

02:31:24.823 --> 02:31:27.863
That's not what the United States House of Representatives is set up for.

02:31:27.863 --> 02:31:31.483
That's not what the presidency of the United States is set up for.

02:31:31.563 --> 02:31:33.423
It's not set up for people like that.

02:31:33.863 --> 02:31:38.583
It's set up for people who will do the best they can with the belief system

02:31:38.583 --> 02:31:44.363
they have to make a difference, make an improvement, and to do no harm to the

02:31:44.363 --> 02:31:47.323
citizens of the United States of America. That's what that is.

02:31:47.603 --> 02:31:51.063
That's what American leadership is in a nutshell.

02:31:51.643 --> 02:31:54.363
And John Neely Kennedy, you are not that guy.

02:31:55.623 --> 02:32:02.583
And, you know, Mr. Chambers and I have not met. I have reached out to him to be on the podcast.

02:32:03.043 --> 02:32:09.623
I know people that know him, and if he's listening, if he just happens to come

02:32:09.623 --> 02:32:11.663
across, I pray, brother,

02:32:12.263 --> 02:32:17.743
that if you can't get nobody else out, please get John Neely Kennedy out of

02:32:17.743 --> 02:32:20.623
that United States Senate, even if you've got to run yourself.

02:32:22.063 --> 02:32:26.003
And just the people of Louisiana. I don't care if you're in Shreveport,

02:32:26.303 --> 02:32:31.983
Monroe, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Lafayette. I don't care.

02:32:33.643 --> 02:32:37.963
Houma, Nacogdoches. I don't care. Get this guy out.

02:32:38.423 --> 02:32:41.843
Do not give him another shot at this thing.

02:32:42.223 --> 02:32:47.363
He should be, I guess maybe, let me see. Did he get reelected?

02:32:47.543 --> 02:32:52.163
I guess he got reelected already. He got reelected in 22. So.

02:32:53.143 --> 02:32:59.483
So he'll be up during the presidential election in 26. I mean, 28.

02:33:00.563 --> 02:33:09.703
So we've got four years, three and a half to to put together a person or a group of people.

02:33:11.120 --> 02:33:16.320
To not let him be even in the runoff, right?

02:33:17.620 --> 02:33:24.040
Just send him home. Let him do his foghorn leghorn imitation to his grandkids

02:33:24.040 --> 02:33:27.400
and his great-grandkids and leave the rest of America out of it.

02:33:27.520 --> 02:33:29.220
Stop insulting people of color.

02:33:29.400 --> 02:33:32.180
Stop disrespecting women. Stop being a butthole.

02:33:32.840 --> 02:33:37.880
Now, if you can do that, and maybe I might reconsider your position,

02:33:37.880 --> 02:33:41.320
but you're older than me, So you're more set in your ways.

02:33:41.600 --> 02:33:43.520
So yeah, no thanks.

02:33:44.380 --> 02:33:46.160
We got to do better, y'all.

02:33:48.000 --> 02:33:52.740
And to those people who support that guy or think that he's decent,

02:33:52.960 --> 02:33:57.060
you may not think it's fair for me to criticize him like that. So be it.

02:33:57.700 --> 02:34:02.900
I'm just tired, y'all. I'm just tired. I'm just aggravated with the insensitivity.

02:34:04.160 --> 02:34:11.600
I'm aggravated with the uncouthness. I'm just aggravated with the foolishness. I'm just tired.

02:34:12.580 --> 02:34:19.320
And I don't have to accept that. Not on my podcast, not in my life.

02:34:19.320 --> 02:34:20.540
I don't have to accept that.

02:34:21.080 --> 02:34:26.680
You don't have to agree with me, but damn it, respect me as a human being.

02:34:27.300 --> 02:34:29.560
Respect others as human beings.

02:34:30.320 --> 02:34:34.260
Be a man, not a little whiny baby.

02:34:35.200 --> 02:34:39.740
Jennifer Welch has another name for him I'm not going to do that I think they

02:34:39.740 --> 02:34:41.040
should trademark that actually.

02:34:43.940 --> 02:34:50.480
I've had a crew Miss Welch and Miss Sullivan I'm not going to use their terminology

02:34:50.480 --> 02:34:54.320
but he would fall in that category right,

02:34:55.080 --> 02:35:00.900
and you know there are other podcasts that pretty much will use more colorful

02:35:00.900 --> 02:35:03.260
language than me I'm trying to be restrained,

02:35:05.680 --> 02:35:09.300
But, yeah, enough of this stuff.

02:35:10.040 --> 02:35:11.940
Kennedy either has to have a

02:35:11.940 --> 02:35:16.720
Damascus Road experience or he needs to be on the road back to Louisiana.

02:35:17.320 --> 02:35:18.620
Period. End of discussion.

02:35:20.340 --> 02:35:25.720
All right, guys. That's the end of my rant. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.

02:35:27.120 --> 02:36:13.987
Music.