Hope Overcomes Challenge Featuring Edward L. Jones III and Tonya McKenzie

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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Ladies and gentlemen, this is going to be an excellent show,

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and it's about hope overcoming challenge, right?

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And the way that is going to go down is that I've got a man who's written a

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book about something that really, really happened.

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And even with all the issues that come out in the book, the one thing that stands

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out is there's hope, even after tragedy.

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And my next guest, the other guest,

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she is an active person in her community,

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but she also is the embodiment of hope overcoming a challenge through her life

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story and what she went through as a child and And all the stuff that she's

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doing now and how that tragedy, you know,

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has motivated her to do incredible things in her community.

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So I hope that you will enjoy those guests.

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You listen to them tell their stories and go into detail about his story and

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his interview about the book he wrote and her story,

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her interview about the life that she's leading.

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We're still trying to get 20,000 subscribers, y'all.

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You know, I need help. I need help.

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And, you know, the world that we live in is pretty complicated.

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But the simple thing we can do is support folks that we believe in.

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And I hope that there's enough of y'all that are listening, that believe in

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me, that who subscribes. Just go to patreon.com slash a moment with Erik Fleming.

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And, you know, just as we used to say in the hood, help a brother out.

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I would greatly appreciate that. You know, spread the word.

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You know, I've gotten some good feedback over the years about the podcast and even more so now.

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So, you know, we'll take that. But let's get some subscriptions.

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Let's do that, guys. Okay. Again, as I told you, I'm not a great salesman.

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So, you know, let it come from your heart instead of being wild and mesmerized into it.

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I'm pretty proud of what I've been able to do with this podcast and all the

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people that have helped me make this happen.

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And so, you know, we want to keep this thing going, and especially in a time like this, right?

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So, without any further ado, let's get the show started. And as always,

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we started off with a moment of news for Grace G.

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Music.

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Thanks, Eric. President Trump enacted a baseline 10% tariff on all imports to

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the United States. A U.S.

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Judge dismissed with prejudice corruption charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams.

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President Trump withdrew his U.N. ambassador nominee, Elise Stefanik,

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to help preserve the Republican majority in the House.

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Susan Crawford's election to Wisconsin's Supreme Court preserved its liberal

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majority, marking a defeat for Trump and Elon Musk, who spent over $21 million

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backing her conservative opponent.

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U.S. Senator Cory Booker conducted a record-breaking 25-hour Senate floor speech

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opposing Trump-era policies.

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Attorney General Pam Bondi will seek the federal death penalty for Luigi Mangione,

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accused of murdering a health care CEO.

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Trump ordered the removal of anti-American ideology from the Smithsonian,

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targeting museums he claims promote revisionist history.

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Columbia University's interim president resigned following a funding dispute

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with the Trump administration. The U.S.

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Justice Department withdrew from a lawsuit challenging Georgia's 2021 Republican-backed voting law.

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Separate federal district judges issued rulings that temporarily blocked the

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deportation of a Turkish Tufts University student accused of supporting Hamas

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and extended a temporary halt on Trump's use of a wartime law to expel Venezuelan gang members.

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The U.S. Naval Academy will no longer consider race in admissions,

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reversing its previous policy.

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A federal appeals court paused a lower court ruling blocking Trump's ban on

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transgender military service.

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President Trump commuted the nearly 10-year prison sentence of Aussie media founder Carlos Watson.

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A 7.7-magnitude earthquake killed over 3,000 people in Myanmar.

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A French court banned far-right leader Marie Le Pen from the 2027 presidential

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race over embezzlement charges.

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And measles cases in Texas and New Mexico rose to 444.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

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Music.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that Moment of News.

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And now it's time for our guest, Edward L. Jones III Edward L.

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Jones III has been an award-winning writer in advertising and higher education.

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During his ad career, he won more than 350 awards for creativity.

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In his time away from advertising, Ed served as a community columnist for the Charlotte Observer.

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He lives in the Winston-Salem, North Carolina area.

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Medication, Mental Illness, and Murder, What Really Killed the Crespi Twins

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is his first book, and that's what we're going to get into today.

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So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

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guest on this podcast, Edward L. Jones III.

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Music.

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All right. Edward L. Jones, the third, or do you want me to just call you Ed or?

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Ed is good. All right. So welcome to the podcast, bro.

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Jones, I greatly appreciate you coming on. I'm actually honored to have you on.

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You've written a book called Medication, Mental Illness and Murder.

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And so we're going to talk about that and some issues that come out of that book.

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And I think this is going to be a good discussion.

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Most of my audience knows that I have a real concern about mental health in America.

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And as a former state legislator, that was a big concern during my time there.

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And so, yeah, so we're going to get into that.

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But as always, I kind of I have a couple of icebreaking exercises to kind of

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get the interview going.

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So the first icebreaker is a quote.

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And this quote is hope means hoping when things are hopeless or it is no virtue

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at all. What does that quote mean to you?

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Yeah, that's from G.K. Chesterton.

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It means, wow, it's a good,

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it basically means that you need hope in the darkest times, you know,

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and I'm not sure hope is actually a natural thing for human beings.

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I think it has I think it's

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a supernatural virtue you know so but

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how you know how can you go on without hope you know that someday some meaning

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can be derived from all of this like if you're going through suffering mental

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illness you know and that is really the I've been told the cause of,

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clinical depression is hopelessness, you know?

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So yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's so vital to a life well lived is to

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be able to hold on to hope.

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Yeah. Yeah. And it is, I agree with your assessment that it's, it's more supernatural,

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than natural because, you know, we, we've been dealing with a lot of stuff over

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the last five years and, you know, depends on where you, where you fall on,

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on the political spectrum.

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I think some of us have had to rely on hope more than others.

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Yes. So. I feel you on that one.

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I know about these last five years. I hear you.

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Yes, sir. So, yeah, so I would have to agree with your assessment.

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All right. So now I need you to pick a number between one and 20.

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Okay. I'll go with lucky number seven.

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Okay. Number seven. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about

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politics, current events, health, etc?

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Wow. You know, I rely on CNN a lot.

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And I particularly like a show that's on Saturday mornings called Smirconish,

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Michael Smirconish, who's kind of in the middle of the spectrum.

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But I also, you know, I have a lot of links on Facebook to various publications.

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And so I read a wide array.

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I try to read from both sides of the spectrum, you know, Wall Street Journal, New York Times.

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That's the way I kind of get my information.

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Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, the cool thing about that exercise is that it's no

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wrong answer. I mean, you know, it's it's it's where people are.

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You know, I think, you know, the key thing is trying to get as many perspectives as possible.

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So that's that's good. So let's talk about this.

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That's right. Yeah. So let's talk about this book, Medication,

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Mental Illness and Murder.

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This is a personal book for you. You actually know the people that are involved

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in the tragedy that you cover.

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So kind of talk about what this story is about.

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And I have a follow-up once you kind of lay out what the book is about.

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Sure. Well, you know, I tell people that this story came to me.

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I didn't go looking for it in a way. And how it all came about was in November

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of 2005, my wife and I were just getting to know David Crespi and Kim Crespi.

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And in December, right around Christmas time, I heard through the grapevine,

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through the wife grapevine, that David Crespi was suffering from depression.

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And by that time i had

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kind of successfully gotten my way

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through three bouts of clinical depression my last one was in about 1981 so

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i got through them without any

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of these medications being available so so anyway i told my wife to tell.

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Him to tell David that, man, I really felt for him.

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If anybody listening has ever experienced depression, you know what I'm about to talk about.

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I mean, it's agony on multiple levels, including even physical,

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you know, your body hurts.

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So I had tremendous empathy. So I told,

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you know please get word to David that if

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he needs somebody to talk to who's been through this I would be there yesterday

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you know just to sit with him whatever just so he didn't feel alone well we

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got word back from Kim that David had been through previous episodes of depression,

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and she and David felt like David was getting maybe the best clinical treatment

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he had ever gotten before.

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So my wife and I breathed a sigh of relief and thought, okay,

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everything's going to be fine.

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And then on January 20th, 2006, we

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got a phone call and it was from a friend of my wife's religious person named

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Teresa and she she said to my wife you know she could barely get it out and

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David Crespi has done away with his twins and you know my wife almost dropped the phone.

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And my reaction was oh my lord you know I almost had a form of survivor guilt

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in a way it's like gosh if I could just have gotten to him could something I

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have said have helped you know So anyway, as you can imagine,

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in the ensuing days, I was very interested in reading the reporting of the Charlotte Observer. And...

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What came out was that David was on a cocktail of various medications,

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including Ambien, Trazodone, which is an antipsychotic, and Prozac.

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And he had started the Prozac seven days before the killings.

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And this is an interesting point to make, too.

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After he stabbed his five-year-old twin daughters to death.

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Here's how it happened. He was at home on leave that day, January 20th, for depression.

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His three older children were at three various schools, but the twin daughters

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were at home with him and Kim.

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And Kim went out to get a haircut at noon.

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And while she was away, the little girls asked David to play hide-and-seek.

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And while they were finding their hiding places, he went over to the butcher

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block on the kitchen counter, pulled out two large knives, went and found the two girls,

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dragged them out, tried to kill them both at the same time.

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But started with stabbing Samantha multiple

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times and then while he was doing that to Sarah

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the other twin rested herself free and ran upstairs

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and hid behind his clothes in a closet upstairs so after he thought that Samantha

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was dead he went upstairs and dragged to Sarah out of the closet onto the master

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her bathroom floor and stabbed her multiple times.

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And then, this is an important thing for the listeners to know,

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he took off his blood-stained clothes, washed up, put on brand new clothes, and called 911.

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And the first thing he says is, I just killed my two daughters.

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Almost calmly, almost otherworldly kind of tone, you know.

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You just, what? The operator says, I just killed my two daughters and a female

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911 operator cuts in and says, sir, are you on any medications?

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She, you know, I mean, think about that. She knew she she suspected something right away.

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Yes, what kind of medications are you on? I'm on antidepressants.

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Well, the audio and transcript of that 911 call was not released until almost

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three months after David Crespi was sentenced to two consecutive life terms

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without the possibility of parole.

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So that's kind of the core of the story, And the way that it's structured is,

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Kim Crespi gave me her contemporaneous journal entries, which are profoundly moving.

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And I interweave those journal entries.

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They're kind of the spine of the book. and they give the book a real-life hero.

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And so I interweaved that. And then it's almost like it's kind of a detective

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story in a way because it's kind of like Kim and I together in a way set out

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on a quest to find clues and answers to.

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Here's three questions we were trying to find answers to. How is it possible

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that a legally prescribed SSRI antidepressant could turn a superstar banker

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who was an exemplary father and husband into a killer?

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Why didn't the pharmaceutical companies who are aware of the potentially lethal

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side effects of these medications do more to make those side effects known?

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And how have those companies been able to get away with burying negative and

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alarming test results revealed in hundreds of clinical trials for decades?

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Yeah. Yeah.

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And so initially, though, you weren't going to do a book.

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You had written like an article or an op-ed, I believe.

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And then somebody said, you know, you need to flesh this out a little more.

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Kind of talk about that, how you got convinced to go ahead and make this a book

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instead of just a one-time article or op-ed.

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Thanks for asking. That's a great question. Yeah, I wrote two on the anniversary,

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the second anniversary of the killings.

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By that time, I had gone to visit David in prison with my wife and Kim.

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And so I wrote an op ed on this on the second anniversary and talked about how

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David was my best pen pal by that time.

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And so anyway, and I braced myself when that op-ed came out because I thought

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I was going to get a lot of, you know, negative emails, etc.

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But no such thing happened. But anyway, to get to the point of that,

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I later posted, you know, I have a bunch of college friends and all kinds of friends on Facebook.

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I later posted that op-ed, I think on another anniversary, and a college classmate

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of mine named Terry Hummel, who was the former publisher of Rolling Stone magazine,

00:21:39.533 --> 00:21:45.953
he's the one who got in contact with me and said, you know, Ed, you've got a book here.

00:21:46.453 --> 00:21:51.893
And what's interesting is, you know, I said, okay, you know, I think so too.

00:21:53.293 --> 00:22:01.513
And so he invited me to be in a teleconference with him and one of his favorite

00:22:01.513 --> 00:22:05.593
writers from his Rolling Stone magazine days. And so...

00:22:07.243 --> 00:22:12.643
You know, he told me to tell this writer about, you know, the story, kind of how dark it was.

00:22:13.163 --> 00:22:18.843
And we all, he, this writer kind of sat there in kind of a stunned silence.

00:22:19.043 --> 00:22:23.543
And he was kind of said, I just, this story is so grim. I just don't know.

00:22:24.063 --> 00:22:29.103
I don't know how you can shape it so people can get through it, you know.

00:22:29.103 --> 00:22:37.403
And it's interesting, the teleconference ended with this writer saying,

00:22:37.603 --> 00:22:41.343
well, I know one thing I'm going to do when I get home, I'm going to start trying

00:22:41.343 --> 00:22:43.483
to taper off my antidepressants.

00:22:45.383 --> 00:22:48.423
But it took me a while to realize that

00:22:48.423 --> 00:22:51.243
the key to making it not just

00:22:51.243 --> 00:22:55.603
readable but inspiring was you

00:22:55.603 --> 00:23:03.183
know kim crespi had given me her 400 page journal and and i finally realized

00:23:03.183 --> 00:23:09.723
if i you know edit this down to key passages etc then i've got kind of the bones

00:23:09.723 --> 00:23:12.323
or the spine of a book Yeah.

00:23:12.623 --> 00:23:21.023
And then and also with your personal journey following the trial and news coverage,

00:23:21.143 --> 00:23:28.243
because I think Oprah had talked about this case on her show and and, you know,

00:23:28.623 --> 00:23:33.003
just just your because you actually knew the people is one thing to,

00:23:33.003 --> 00:23:36.923
you know, a lot of folks, you know, they have to go in and, you know,

00:23:37.063 --> 00:23:39.203
get background and all this kind of stuff.

00:23:39.203 --> 00:23:43.483
But these were people, these were actually human beings that you had interacted with.

00:23:43.943 --> 00:23:48.483
David, not as much as Kim, but you knew them.

00:23:48.923 --> 00:23:56.003
And so this hit personal as opposed to some piece that you may be assigned to

00:23:56.003 --> 00:23:57.303
cover or something like that.

00:23:58.376 --> 00:24:05.096
So true. Yes. And, you know, I write in the book that I went to the superior

00:24:05.096 --> 00:24:06.896
court hearing about the case,

00:24:07.016 --> 00:24:12.556
you know, and David had already pleaded to two life terms, you know,

00:24:12.736 --> 00:24:14.196
without the possibility of parole.

00:24:15.456 --> 00:24:22.956
And that's when I found out more about David because this hearing went on for about eight hours.

00:24:23.076 --> 00:24:31.156
It was like a riveting mini trial or almost like a trial that could have been but never was.

00:24:31.676 --> 00:24:38.676
And, you know, I learned from that that David was, I mean, just had an impeccable

00:24:38.676 --> 00:24:44.476
record. He had a 4.0 grade point average in college.

00:24:44.556 --> 00:24:50.676
He scored in the top five in the CPA exam in the country when he graduated.

00:24:50.896 --> 00:24:59.596
He became the youngest CFO in the history of Sacramento Savings Bank at the age of 29.

00:25:00.376 --> 00:25:08.296
His first wife died of a brain tumor. She was a nurse, and he established scholarships

00:25:08.296 --> 00:25:14.396
in her name to help future nursing students afford their education.

00:25:15.336 --> 00:25:21.536
I mean, the man never had a parking ticket, never lightly spanked any of his

00:25:21.536 --> 00:25:23.436
five children, no history of violence.

00:25:23.436 --> 00:25:30.116
And then he does this, you know, and it's like, and I went into that Superior

00:25:30.116 --> 00:25:32.096
Court hearing, you know,

00:25:32.836 --> 00:25:37.516
wondering, but, you know, if by that time I had found out how many drugs he

00:25:37.516 --> 00:25:41.796
was on and I knew nothing about, you know.

00:25:42.776 --> 00:25:46.656
Prozac other than it was a happy pill, a miracle drug.

00:25:46.656 --> 00:25:54.436
But I had recently, like a month before that hearing, I had heard and read about

00:25:54.436 --> 00:25:58.296
a case involving Patrick Kennedy, U.S.

00:25:58.596 --> 00:26:01.196
House of Representatives, you know, the son of Teddy Kennedy,

00:26:01.496 --> 00:26:04.756
having this bizarre wreck in Washington, D.C.

00:26:04.976 --> 00:26:14.156
And getting out of his car and being utterly incoherent. And it was proven that

00:26:14.156 --> 00:26:16.816
he was that way because he was taking Ambien, you know.

00:26:17.376 --> 00:26:25.356
So anyway, I went into that Superior Court hearing wondering if I had been subjected

00:26:25.356 --> 00:26:32.336
to taking all these drugs, could I, with my brain chemistry or my DNA,

00:26:32.936 --> 00:26:38.596
could I have done something equally as horrible, you know, as David did?

00:26:38.596 --> 00:26:40.476
So that was an open question.

00:26:40.776 --> 00:26:47.176
And I'll tell you what, I went into that hearing kind of a law and order conservative,

00:26:47.436 --> 00:26:53.196
you know, that I had heard about this horrible case, the Andrea Yates case.

00:26:54.865 --> 00:27:02.225
She was a woman suffering from postpartum depression, and she had five beautiful little children.

00:27:02.565 --> 00:27:09.265
And while her husband was away, she drowned each one of those five little children in their bathtub.

00:27:10.625 --> 00:27:15.265
And so I'm thinking, when I heard about that, she needs to be like waterboarded

00:27:15.265 --> 00:27:18.345
to death. She deserves just the worst punishment ever.

00:27:18.925 --> 00:27:25.365
And at the end of that superior court hearing, I, A, thought that David,

00:27:25.705 --> 00:27:31.165
that there had been a miscarriage of justice, that he did these things because of these chemicals.

00:27:31.165 --> 00:27:38.305
And then B, I thought, gosh, I wonder if Andrea Yates was on some of these kind

00:27:38.305 --> 00:27:40.565
of drugs. And it turned out, oh, yes, she was.

00:27:40.725 --> 00:27:49.585
She was on like twice the dosage of Effexor that anybody should ever be on, plus Remeron.

00:27:51.485 --> 00:27:54.705
Yeah so i'm i'm gonna get into that

00:27:54.705 --> 00:27:59.505
as a matter of fact well i do want you to explain to the listeners what the

00:27:59.505 --> 00:28:07.805
term black dog is oh okay that i think Winston Churchill coined that and and

00:28:07.805 --> 00:28:14.265
that was his bouts of depression that he called it the black dog would come back to visit him.

00:28:15.665 --> 00:28:18.425
Yeah yeah because it's like i i

00:28:18.425 --> 00:28:21.185
never heard that term before until i read the book and it

00:28:21.185 --> 00:28:24.345
was like the reason why it really intrigued me

00:28:24.345 --> 00:28:27.745
and i'm glad you shared yours because the folks

00:28:27.745 --> 00:28:30.645
that listen to the show know that i've

00:28:30.645 --> 00:28:34.365
gone through depression as well and oh

00:28:34.365 --> 00:28:37.185
wow i'm trying to think zoloft was the

00:28:37.185 --> 00:28:40.065
drug that they gave me and it was only but the

00:28:40.065 --> 00:28:43.465
doctor only gave me a half a pill to

00:28:43.465 --> 00:28:46.765
take and uh you know

00:28:46.765 --> 00:28:52.165
and this was around 2010 2011

00:28:52.165 --> 00:28:56.225
12 around in that area there and

00:28:56.225 --> 00:28:59.445
so like you you described it accurately

00:28:59.445 --> 00:29:02.525
it's like one minute

00:29:02.525 --> 00:29:05.365
you you know you kind of like you're in your

00:29:05.365 --> 00:29:08.685
zone you you're you're you you are doing

00:29:08.685 --> 00:29:12.265
things repetitively and you don't catch it and then

00:29:12.265 --> 00:29:17.865
you know you start acting a certain way you start feeling lethargic and you

00:29:17.865 --> 00:29:23.085
know kind of kind of like a my myochondriac you like you're not really in pain

00:29:23.085 --> 00:29:28.725
but you feel like you are right and you know you just go you just you just go

00:29:28.725 --> 00:29:30.965
through all that stuff so I can understand why,

00:29:31.445 --> 00:29:36.165
Winston Churchill referred to it as the black dog because it'll it'll bite you

00:29:36.165 --> 00:29:39.825
and you know and And that's something that.

00:29:40.732 --> 00:29:44.172
Men in particular, not just black men or white men or whatever,

00:29:44.312 --> 00:29:51.152
but men in particular, you know, we have a tough time admitting that we went through that.

00:29:51.392 --> 00:29:54.472
And I'm sure in reading the book,

00:29:55.172 --> 00:30:01.052
you know, David was was dealing with part of that denial because he would he

00:30:01.052 --> 00:30:06.912
would tell folks, yeah, I'm having suicidal thoughts, but he wouldn't admit

00:30:06.912 --> 00:30:08.612
that he was having homicidal thoughts.

00:30:08.612 --> 00:30:14.452
So he was still he wasn't fully sharing his experience, which a lot of people

00:30:14.452 --> 00:30:16.672
when they go through depression do.

00:30:17.212 --> 00:30:21.512
Right, right. So glad you brought up Zoloft because I've got a couple of stories

00:30:21.512 --> 00:30:27.292
about Zoloft that I think maybe you and your listeners may want to hear about.

00:30:27.292 --> 00:30:30.012
Okay, so this isn't in the book.

00:30:30.212 --> 00:30:33.772
I found this out and I heard this in a documentary later.

00:30:33.952 --> 00:30:40.052
So there's an expert that I quote in the book several times named Dr.

00:30:40.312 --> 00:30:45.972
David Healy. He's a forensic psychiatrist and PhD and has written a couple of

00:30:45.972 --> 00:30:49.212
books. But OK, so this is about Zoloft.

00:30:50.212 --> 00:30:56.512
And he told this true story about a clinical trial that was suppressed in 1983.

00:30:57.612 --> 00:31:01.772
Nine years before the launch of Zoloft in the United States,

00:31:02.272 --> 00:31:08.392
21 years before the FDA required Pfizer to put a black box warning on it.

00:31:08.392 --> 00:31:14.512
Pfizer had done a healthy volunteer trial with Zoloft in the United Kingdom.

00:31:14.832 --> 00:31:18.032
They recruited 12 women for this trial.

00:31:18.712 --> 00:31:22.852
Again, these are healthy women. Half of them were to be given Zoloft.

00:31:22.972 --> 00:31:24.552
The other half were given a placebo.

00:31:25.092 --> 00:31:30.792
The trial was due to run for two weeks, but it was stopped after one week because

00:31:30.792 --> 00:31:36.272
every single woman taking Zoloft had become anxious, apprehensive, agitated.

00:31:36.272 --> 00:31:39.532
One or two of these help previously

00:31:39.532 --> 00:31:44.832
healthy women had begun to voice thoughts about harming others so all of the

00:31:44.832 --> 00:31:49.412
things that led the fda to put a black box warning on this drug 21 years later

00:31:49.412 --> 00:31:57.072
were there in 1983 so they they obviously suppressed that information so then

00:31:57.072 --> 00:31:58.932
speaking of zoloft i've got.

00:32:00.141 --> 00:32:03.241
Quick story, true story that happened in Australia.

00:32:03.941 --> 00:32:09.601
On August the 1st, 1999, 74-year-old Australian David Hawkins,

00:32:10.021 --> 00:32:15.481
a model citizen with no prior history of violence, attacked his 68-year-old

00:32:15.481 --> 00:32:17.281
wife, strangling her to death.

00:32:17.581 --> 00:32:23.901
He immediately called Australia's equivalent of 911, and the call was recorded.

00:32:23.961 --> 00:32:26.301
Now, this is eerily similar to David Cresby.

00:32:26.921 --> 00:32:32.761
I have killed my wife, he says, on the call. I got tablets from the doctor yesterday,

00:32:32.941 --> 00:32:34.241
and I think they were too strong.

00:32:34.661 --> 00:32:36.841
I went absolutely wild.

00:32:37.581 --> 00:32:42.361
I don't know. I've got to go. I'm heading out, and I'm going to get rid of myself.

00:32:42.601 --> 00:32:47.641
Nobody can help me now. I'm shaking here. I can't wait. I can't stop.

00:32:48.141 --> 00:32:52.741
Well, the tablets, quote-unquote, David Hawkins had taken were Zoloft.

00:32:53.361 --> 00:32:59.521
When he hung up, Hawkins attempted to asphyxiate himself with carbon monoxide from his car.

00:32:59.761 --> 00:33:04.641
He stopped because he was worried about the effect that the two deaths would have on his daughter.

00:33:04.841 --> 00:33:10.061
Now, here's the difference between the David Crespi case and this case in Australia.

00:33:10.621 --> 00:33:14.781
Hawkins was charged with murder, like David Crespi. At the trial,

00:33:15.081 --> 00:33:23.041
the judge accepted a defense of automatism, meaning that Hawkins wasn't responsible for his actions.

00:33:23.421 --> 00:33:28.881
Quote, but for the Zoloft, which he took on the morning of August the 1st,

00:33:29.021 --> 00:33:33.221
1999, it is overwhelmingly probable that Mrs.

00:33:33.381 --> 00:33:38.041
Hawkins would not have been killed on that morning, said New South Wales Supreme

00:33:38.041 --> 00:33:40.121
Court Judge Barry O'Keefe.

00:33:40.581 --> 00:33:48.001
You know, their justice system in the UK actually has some form of mercy.

00:33:48.241 --> 00:33:53.041
And in the book, I get into another case of a David in Canada.

00:33:54.389 --> 00:34:04.649
But anyway, our our system is pretty merciless in these cases of mental illness involved tragedies.

00:34:04.649 --> 00:34:07.689
Yeah and that that was that leads

00:34:07.689 --> 00:34:10.889
into the next question because yeah you know

00:34:10.889 --> 00:34:13.909
i i looked at when i was looking

00:34:13.909 --> 00:34:16.689
at it especially with the little blurbs you would end

00:34:16.689 --> 00:34:23.589
each chapter with you know it was like you were you it sounded more like you

00:34:23.589 --> 00:34:29.749
you had an issue with big pharma or the pharmaceutical companies than so much

00:34:29.749 --> 00:34:34.629
the mental health system or the criminal justice system but,

00:34:35.249 --> 00:34:42.829
Do you feel that one of those three is a major failure compared to the other,

00:34:42.849 --> 00:34:48.809
or do you feel that it's a symphony of failure between all three of those entities? Oh, I tell you, yeah.

00:34:49.829 --> 00:34:54.269
I think it's a symphony of failure.

00:34:54.729 --> 00:34:58.729
And yeah, about the mental health care system.

00:35:00.089 --> 00:35:05.109
So in the David Crespi case, and I'm going to talk about the North Carolina

00:35:05.109 --> 00:35:08.869
state-run mental health care facilities, etc.

00:35:09.249 --> 00:35:15.209
In the light of this. So in David Crespi's case,

00:35:15.589 --> 00:35:22.669
the DA in Charlotte went for the death penalty and, you know,

00:35:23.049 --> 00:35:29.029
told David and his lawyers that that's what they were going to do. And so...

00:35:31.001 --> 00:35:36.721
David and Kim, David was too incoherent, but Kim and David's brother asked the

00:35:36.721 --> 00:35:42.641
lawyers about, is there some way we could consider an insanity case here?

00:35:43.661 --> 00:35:47.781
And the answer that came back was,

00:35:48.281 --> 00:35:54.321
if you were not insane to begin with,

00:35:54.661 --> 00:36:03.881
you were perfectly sane, and you were put into a North Carolina state-run mental

00:36:03.881 --> 00:36:07.541
health facility, that would make you insane.

00:36:08.001 --> 00:36:15.041
That's how bad. And I recently heard a sheriff in Cary, North Carolina.

00:36:15.301 --> 00:36:17.301
This was on the radio. I just happened to catch it.

00:36:17.601 --> 00:36:23.021
He and his men had just dealt with some kind of god-awful tragedy brought on

00:36:23.021 --> 00:36:26.401
by a person with a gun who was mentally ill.

00:36:26.401 --> 00:36:32.881
And he said This really struck me He said We of course aren't prepared to deal

00:36:32.881 --> 00:36:37.501
with something like that And he said People may not know this But the largest

00:36:37.501 --> 00:36:43.181
provider of mental health services In our state is our prisons I mean,

00:36:44.001 --> 00:36:46.841
How could it be more damning than that.

00:36:47.721 --> 00:36:55.701
Now in our legal system What I tell people Again I want to get back to this,

00:36:56.401 --> 00:37:00.021
This thing about it being merciless in these cases.

00:37:00.361 --> 00:37:06.741
You know, as I just kind of established, in the UK, they are somehow able to

00:37:06.741 --> 00:37:10.821
deal with this with more mercy than we are.

00:37:11.161 --> 00:37:17.541
And what I say is we lack the collective intelligence to deal with these kind

00:37:17.541 --> 00:37:19.441
of cases. And what do I mean by that?

00:37:21.117 --> 00:37:27.777
You know, F. Scott Fitzgerald's definition of intelligence was essentially the

00:37:27.777 --> 00:37:33.757
ability to hold two contradictory ideas in one's head simultaneously.

00:37:34.577 --> 00:37:41.717
And in the case of David Crespi and others, particularly David Crespi,

00:37:41.877 --> 00:37:47.537
just to focus on right now, we have to be able to hold these two thoughts in

00:37:47.537 --> 00:37:49.037
our heads simultaneously.

00:37:49.037 --> 00:37:56.017
A, David brutally killed his beautiful, defenseless twin daughters.

00:37:56.497 --> 00:38:00.317
B, David Crespi was the first victim.

00:38:01.297 --> 00:38:06.637
Somehow in the UK, they're able to hold those two thoughts in their minds.

00:38:06.977 --> 00:38:11.997
And there's a difference over there as I gather.

00:38:11.997 --> 00:38:19.337
And that is, you know, the judge, in conjunction with just the two lawyers,

00:38:19.577 --> 00:38:27.677
can render these merciful verdicts, you know, without the involvement of a jury, you know?

00:38:28.297 --> 00:38:34.697
So, yeah, but to your question, it was just a symphony of failures here in America.

00:38:35.637 --> 00:38:40.097
Yeah. And, and, and you, you, you highlighted the fact that,

00:38:40.257 --> 00:38:45.377
you know, in the case of Zoloft, that they had done this study in 83.

00:38:45.797 --> 00:38:51.597
And then later, several years later, they decided to put the warning out there.

00:38:51.597 --> 00:38:55.257
Yeah what outside outside

00:38:55.257 --> 00:38:58.297
of money what what

00:38:58.297 --> 00:39:01.717
why do you think you know big pharma

00:39:01.717 --> 00:39:05.517
the pharmaceutical companies you know would

00:39:05.517 --> 00:39:08.877
do that i mean so i have some fundamental things

00:39:08.877 --> 00:39:11.637
and i don't want to take up too much more

00:39:11.637 --> 00:39:15.177
time because we're pushing as it is but two things

00:39:15.177 --> 00:39:18.397
one when i was in the state legislature in Mississippi and

00:39:18.397 --> 00:39:21.777
this was from 99 to 2008 uh every

00:39:21.777 --> 00:39:25.537
year when we had appropriations department of

00:39:25.537 --> 00:39:30.777
mental health was cut and i had noticed this pattern early on and i would ask

00:39:30.777 --> 00:39:36.237
why would we always cut this and they say well you know because you know it's

00:39:36.237 --> 00:39:41.217
not as big a priority or we gotta you know we gotta deal with this we only dealing

00:39:41.217 --> 00:39:44.337
with a limited population I mean, all sorts of crazy excuses.

00:39:45.157 --> 00:39:50.177
And I told one of the leaders on the committee, appropriation committee,

00:39:50.217 --> 00:39:51.557
I said, we're going to pay for that.

00:39:51.997 --> 00:39:57.397
We're going to pay for that because if we're not in a position to deal with

00:39:57.397 --> 00:39:58.897
our citizens in that way.

00:40:00.187 --> 00:40:04.287
It's going to lead to a whole host of other problems that we're going to have

00:40:04.287 --> 00:40:11.447
to address legislatively, like crime, homelessness, all this kind of stuff, addiction, all that.

00:40:12.167 --> 00:40:16.007
And, you know, and you like you, you, you highlight independent,

00:40:16.387 --> 00:40:19.387
the pandemic brought all that out. Right.

00:40:19.987 --> 00:40:25.587
And, you know, and then now we're and then we're dealing with a situation now

00:40:25.587 --> 00:40:33.947
where some of us don't have faith that the leaders in Washington are going to

00:40:33.947 --> 00:40:37.667
hold people to the people's feet to the fire.

00:40:37.667 --> 00:40:42.967
Not only to put more money or put more emphasis on mental health,

00:40:43.167 --> 00:40:48.167
but to keep the pharmaceutical companies in line.

00:40:48.327 --> 00:40:55.347
Because, you know, in our lifetime, it was illegal for pharmaceutical companies

00:40:55.347 --> 00:40:56.707
to advertise on television.

00:40:56.967 --> 00:41:06.927
That's right. And it was legal for tobacco and alcohol, and then they flipped it.

00:41:07.127 --> 00:41:12.947
They banned tobacco, they banned alcohol, and well, as far as.

00:41:14.537 --> 00:41:19.117
Not alcohol per se, but it was like they used to put like the little they used

00:41:19.117 --> 00:41:22.697
to put like the little skull and bones in the ice cubes, little subtle things

00:41:22.697 --> 00:41:23.957
like that when it came to alcohol.

00:41:24.497 --> 00:41:29.957
But they flipped it on tobacco. They've they've you know, they don't do the

00:41:29.957 --> 00:41:33.297
tobacco commercials anymore, but now they do the pharmaceutical commercials.

00:41:33.457 --> 00:41:37.977
And if it wasn't for pharmaceutical companies, I don't know if we have three

00:41:37.977 --> 00:41:39.517
or four networks. Right.

00:41:39.997 --> 00:41:49.637
As far as financially stable. So I think that exacerbates the problem with the

00:41:49.637 --> 00:41:51.157
pharmaceutical companies.

00:41:51.397 --> 00:41:57.957
So I just, let's close out like this because we can go on forever.

00:41:57.957 --> 00:42:01.257
I can tell by the way that you're talking.

00:42:01.597 --> 00:42:03.617
We can do this for a long time.

00:42:04.117 --> 00:42:09.817
What do you want people, because one of the cool things that you do is like

00:42:09.817 --> 00:42:11.797
every chapter starts off with a quote.

00:42:11.877 --> 00:42:14.917
Like the one we started off with dealing with hope.

00:42:15.237 --> 00:42:19.557
So what do you want people when they read this book and they read this tragic

00:42:19.557 --> 00:42:24.177
story and they navigate through all the emotions that you present and Kim presents

00:42:24.177 --> 00:42:29.597
and even David as best as he can and all the stuff you kind of expose,

00:42:29.737 --> 00:42:35.537
what do you want people to take away from this book when they read that final chapter and close it?

00:42:36.417 --> 00:42:43.517
That's a great question. And I hope they'll take away four key messages.

00:42:44.477 --> 00:42:50.357
Number one, when patients and their families are armed with accurate information

00:42:50.357 --> 00:42:53.957
about medications, lives can be saved.

00:42:54.637 --> 00:43:01.837
Number two, better, more evidence-based options for treating depression are

00:43:01.837 --> 00:43:05.197
now available instead of neurotoxic pills.

00:43:06.937 --> 00:43:09.997
Three this is very important you as

00:43:09.997 --> 00:43:13.317
a patient have a legal right to informed

00:43:13.317 --> 00:43:20.737
consent that is your doctor is supposed to be or psychiatrist supposed to be

00:43:20.737 --> 00:43:26.777
legally obligated to sit with you and explain to you the pros and cons of these

00:43:26.777 --> 00:43:32.717
kind of medications okay so you could get these benefits, you could get these side effects.

00:43:33.017 --> 00:43:36.457
And, you know, and there's some severe side effects some people can get.

00:43:36.697 --> 00:43:39.657
So you have a legal right to inform consent.

00:43:40.017 --> 00:43:43.517
And then finally, never give up hope.

00:43:44.057 --> 00:43:47.277
You know, never give up hope.

00:43:48.647 --> 00:43:54.747
You know, we talked about Winston Churchill earlier. I think I used this quote in the book.

00:43:56.007 --> 00:43:59.307
When you are going through hell, keep going.

00:44:00.427 --> 00:44:03.627
Yeah. Yeah, you definitely use that.

00:44:03.867 --> 00:44:08.847
And so final question before I get to helping you plug this book.

00:44:09.727 --> 00:44:13.927
How is how are the Crespi's doing? as

00:44:13.927 --> 00:44:16.827
far as you know because this

00:44:16.827 --> 00:44:19.847
happened this it's almost been 20 years now

00:44:19.847 --> 00:44:26.407
so how how are they holding up right well thanks for asking kim kim is such

00:44:26.407 --> 00:44:33.967
an amazing person she is now in the throes of advanced parkinson's disease to

00:44:33.967 --> 00:44:38.727
the point where she can't she can't hardly do anything on her own.

00:44:38.847 --> 00:44:44.127
She can't cook. She can't go to the bathroom by herself, any of that.

00:44:44.247 --> 00:44:49.647
And she requires 24-7 care, which as you may imagine is very expensive.

00:44:50.027 --> 00:44:52.667
And she soon won't be able to afford that.

00:44:53.347 --> 00:44:58.707
But she's the kind of person who never curses the darkness.

00:44:58.707 --> 00:45:04.867
She only lights a candle. And, you know, the only thing she ever says with any

00:45:04.867 --> 00:45:10.187
kind of fervor to it about God and what's happened to her is she basically just

00:45:10.187 --> 00:45:12.127
says, God, what are you thinking?

00:45:12.307 --> 00:45:16.787
You know, so she's hanging and she is buoyed by what's going on,

00:45:16.987 --> 00:45:19.307
you know, with me getting out and

00:45:19.307 --> 00:45:24.307
helping to tell her family's story and hopefully save lives for doing it.

00:45:24.307 --> 00:45:32.087
Now, and the three surviving children, now young adults, are doing remarkably

00:45:32.087 --> 00:45:34.647
well considering all they've been through, you know?

00:45:35.828 --> 00:45:40.908
I think they are almost exhausted with worrying about their mother and their father.

00:45:41.948 --> 00:45:45.648
And, you know, every time this story is told and they listen to it,

00:45:45.748 --> 00:45:47.328
they are re-traumatized.

00:45:47.448 --> 00:45:53.248
So they're just trying to get on with their lives and they're doing a great job of it.

00:45:53.348 --> 00:45:58.788
They're all well-adjusted, you know, accomplished people.

00:45:59.588 --> 00:46:02.868
David is in a dark place. you know

00:46:02.868 --> 00:46:06.828
when i was writing this book uh you

00:46:06.828 --> 00:46:10.388
know we changed letter exchange letters and phone

00:46:10.388 --> 00:46:13.168
calls you know he would call me and of course he's only

00:46:13.168 --> 00:46:16.108
got like what two minutes and somebody's listening in

00:46:16.108 --> 00:46:20.188
at the prison and all that but and he was being bullied that i was right writing

00:46:20.188 --> 00:46:27.448
the book but within the last six months or so he's just gone dark he he he never

00:46:27.448 --> 00:46:35.128
calls kim anymore he he he He had a network of 400 people that he was pen pals with,

00:46:35.388 --> 00:46:38.048
including General Petraeus, of all people, who wrote him back.

00:46:38.748 --> 00:46:45.448
But he stopped writing those. He's been switched to two different prisons in

00:46:45.448 --> 00:46:47.548
the last two months or so.

00:46:48.248 --> 00:46:50.588
And so not doing well.

00:46:51.808 --> 00:46:57.208
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's a tough story.

00:46:57.208 --> 00:47:06.048
And you know everybody involved with that they're going to have their test of

00:47:06.048 --> 00:47:12.428
faith and test of hope to get you know to continue on regardless,

00:47:13.528 --> 00:47:15.288
hopefully you know.

00:47:16.770 --> 00:47:21.270
You know, there'll be there'll be more good days than bad days in that case,

00:47:21.370 --> 00:47:25.230
especially for Miss Kim and the children, for sure.

00:47:25.670 --> 00:47:30.270
And even David. I mean, I think, you know, part of part of our problem with

00:47:30.270 --> 00:47:36.570
the criminal justice system is that, you know, we're always supposed to be trying

00:47:36.570 --> 00:47:40.010
to rehab people, even if they're not going to be back in society.

00:47:40.010 --> 00:47:42.810
We want them to be better people than when they came in.

00:47:43.270 --> 00:47:47.650
And so I hope that I hope that David gets out of that dark place as well.

00:47:48.050 --> 00:47:51.810
So look, man, how can how can people get this book?

00:47:52.330 --> 00:47:56.630
How can people how can people get this book? How can people get in touch with you?

00:47:56.870 --> 00:48:01.030
Because like I said, I feel like I have to apologize because the time that we

00:48:01.030 --> 00:48:05.550
spent is clearly not enough to get into the nuances of everything.

00:48:05.810 --> 00:48:10.350
So how can people really get into it and get this book? Thanks for asking.

00:48:10.550 --> 00:48:18.470
Yes, please go to my website, edwardleejones.com, and there you will find a

00:48:18.470 --> 00:48:20.050
tab that says buy the book.

00:48:20.470 --> 00:48:24.850
And when you click on that tab, there are about four different links you can

00:48:24.850 --> 00:48:28.410
click on according to your preference. There's the Amazon link to the book.

00:48:28.550 --> 00:48:31.010
There's the Barnes & Noble link.

00:48:31.430 --> 00:48:35.350
And then there's the link to my publisher, Roman and Littlefield.

00:48:35.570 --> 00:48:40.650
So all of those are a good way to order the book according to your preference.

00:48:40.650 --> 00:48:49.470
And in another, oh, as far as getting in contact with me, I think the tab is called Contact.

00:48:49.570 --> 00:48:53.890
So you click on that and there's a little form you could fill out and,

00:48:53.890 --> 00:48:58.510
you know, give me your email address, et cetera, so I can respond to you.

00:48:59.610 --> 00:49:06.090
And you'll find an excerpt from the book on there or a bio about me, some early reviews.

00:49:06.330 --> 00:49:11.590
So that's the best way. And thanks for asking about that. No, no problem, sir.

00:49:12.120 --> 00:49:18.470
So Everly Jones III, or as I will refer to you now, Ed, thank you for coming on, man.

00:49:19.330 --> 00:49:24.250
I greatly appreciate the time that we were able to get into it.

00:49:24.430 --> 00:49:30.230
I really hope that this book is successful, not just from a financial standpoint

00:49:30.230 --> 00:49:36.390
or a literary standpoint, but to get information out there, to put a story out

00:49:36.390 --> 00:49:37.750
there and people can start.

00:49:39.790 --> 00:49:45.150
Looking at these issues, anything that can really address mental health in this

00:49:45.150 --> 00:49:48.810
nation and really put our focus on it, I'm all for it.

00:49:49.090 --> 00:49:53.110
So I thank you for writing the book. And again, I thank you for coming on the podcast.

00:49:54.030 --> 00:49:57.670
Thanks so much for having me on. It was just an honor to talk with you about

00:49:57.670 --> 00:50:02.170
the book and all the important issues you raised. Thank you. Thank you.

00:50:03.030 --> 00:50:05.210
All right, guys, and we're going to catch you all on the other side.

00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:26.160
Music.

00:50:26.007 --> 00:50:31.587
And so now it's time for my next guest, Tonya McKenzie.

00:50:32.147 --> 00:50:36.927
Tonya McKenzie, founder of Sand and Shores, is an international speaker,

00:50:37.427 --> 00:50:39.487
moderator, author, and civil servant.

00:50:39.767 --> 00:50:45.347
Tonya is also a Los Angeles County Commissioner of Alcohol and Other Drugs.

00:50:45.607 --> 00:50:50.527
She is a master storyteller at the intersection of communications and leadership.

00:50:51.387 --> 00:50:55.347
Tonya consults organizations and businesses to help them tell their story,

00:50:55.627 --> 00:50:59.027
elevate their brand awareness, and build a strong reputation.

00:50:59.407 --> 00:51:02.907
Tonya is a PR and reputation specialist.

00:51:03.187 --> 00:51:07.127
She hosts the Top 100 Leadership Podcast, Leaders and Learners,

00:51:07.247 --> 00:51:10.607
and is the co-host of My Morning Coffee Podcast.

00:51:11.127 --> 00:51:15.867
Tonya McKenzie was the first African-American woman elected to the Redondo Beach

00:51:15.867 --> 00:51:21.127
Chamber of Commerce, Board of Directors, and President of the North Redondo

00:51:21.127 --> 00:51:23.027
Beach Business Association.

00:51:23.907 --> 00:51:27.927
She was the only African-American named Redondo Beach Woman of the Year.

00:51:28.107 --> 00:51:33.487
She serves on the City of Redondo Beach General Plan Advisory Council,

00:51:33.787 --> 00:51:38.067
is Vice President of the Black Public Relations Society Los Angeles,

00:51:38.407 --> 00:51:44.127
the Redondo Beach Emergency Crisis Council, and the Advisory Council for Better Youth.

00:51:44.127 --> 00:51:49.407
Her body of work with chambers and business associations has shaped her into

00:51:49.407 --> 00:51:54.247
an advocate and valuable resource for small businesses and community organizations.

00:51:55.607 --> 00:51:59.587
Tonya McKenzie can be found highlighted in the pages of Amazing Moms,

00:51:59.727 --> 00:52:01.267
Parents of the 21st Century.

00:52:01.467 --> 00:52:06.547
As a young gun violence survivor, she has become a dedicated youth advocate.

00:52:06.887 --> 00:52:12.007
She is the author of a memoir titled A Child's Memories of Cartoons and Murder.

00:52:12.687 --> 00:52:18.847
Tonya has been married for over 20 years and has four kids, including a set of twins.

00:52:19.507 --> 00:52:24.147
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:52:24.147 --> 00:52:27.807
on this podcast, Tonya McKenzie.

00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:40.400
Music.

00:52:38.887 --> 00:52:43.927
All right. Tonya McKenzie, Commissioner. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?

00:52:44.347 --> 00:52:48.307
I'm blessed and highly favored and happy to be here with you. I'm doing great.

00:52:48.727 --> 00:52:51.967
Well, I'm really honored. I've been trying to get you on for a while,

00:52:52.587 --> 00:52:56.387
and I'm finally glad that our schedule is aligned where we can make this happen.

00:52:56.387 --> 00:53:01.487
And you're a very fascinating sister,

00:53:02.412 --> 00:53:09.832
You've got your hands in a lot of things. And so I wanted people to have a chance

00:53:09.832 --> 00:53:16.152
to hear your story a little bit and what you're doing out there in Redondo Beach, California.

00:53:16.452 --> 00:53:18.212
You must be kind of lonely out there.

00:53:18.532 --> 00:53:23.712
I wouldn't say lonely. The whole 3% of the Black population that does live here,

00:53:23.712 --> 00:53:28.592
we do tend to commune around each other. But lonely, no.

00:53:30.572 --> 00:53:34.872
So I'm always welcoming a little more melanin. You know, I'm always recruiting.

00:53:35.712 --> 00:53:38.752
Yeah, well, you know, just a quick story.

00:53:39.072 --> 00:53:43.692
This is kind of an aside other than the normal icebreakers I do.

00:53:43.852 --> 00:53:47.332
But I had a good friend of mine. He went to Northwestern.

00:53:48.012 --> 00:53:53.352
And at Northwestern University, all the dorms, they have cafeterias in their dormitories.

00:53:54.432 --> 00:54:00.012
And no matter which dormitory you went to all the black folks sat at one table.

00:54:01.732 --> 00:54:04.872
So you could have somebody that's part of your organization

00:54:04.872 --> 00:54:07.992
say the vibeta sitting next to a delta sigma theta

00:54:07.992 --> 00:54:10.752
and a aka and all you

00:54:10.752 --> 00:54:13.732
know everybody they all sitting together at that one table

00:54:13.732 --> 00:54:16.532
all the rest of the folks scattered around but

00:54:16.532 --> 00:54:20.032
those the black folks always and they always had the biggest table but

00:54:20.032 --> 00:54:23.272
they all they all sat together so that was

00:54:23.272 --> 00:54:26.132
that's kind of my analogy of Redondo Beach like

00:54:26.132 --> 00:54:30.372
you said all y'all hang out together but yeah I'll

00:54:30.372 --> 00:54:35.352
say most of us but you know all skin folk and kin folk you know that and there

00:54:35.352 --> 00:54:41.672
are some that want to have more proximity to whiteness than others and willing

00:54:41.672 --> 00:54:47.612
to do whatever it takes for that so that's going to happen anywhere also,

00:54:47.952 --> 00:54:52.692
but particularly here where the dominant folk are, don't look like us.

00:54:52.832 --> 00:54:55.172
So, you know, you're going to have those. You're going to have those.

00:54:55.632 --> 00:54:59.472
Yeah. Well, we have them in Atlanta, as black as Atlanta is.

00:55:00.212 --> 00:55:04.392
And we had it in Jackson, as black as Jackson. Jackson's blacker than Atlanta.

00:55:04.552 --> 00:55:08.652
So I'm definitely familiar with the proximity problem.

00:55:08.932 --> 00:55:15.352
So, look, let me throw a quote at you and get your response to it.

00:55:15.692 --> 00:55:20.672
You let people know who you are by the stories that you tell.

00:55:20.832 --> 00:55:22.172
What does that quote mean to you?

00:55:22.692 --> 00:55:27.552
You are not defined by your title or your job.

00:55:27.652 --> 00:55:37.072
You are more or less defined by the impact that you leave on this earth by the

00:55:37.072 --> 00:55:42.152
people that you touch and by the problems that you solve.

00:55:43.517 --> 00:55:46.677
That's what that means to me. Yeah. Okay.

00:55:47.137 --> 00:55:54.197
All right. So now I need you to pick a number between 1 and 20. Five.

00:55:54.757 --> 00:56:02.757
All right. What do you think we should decide at the local or state levels versus

00:56:02.757 --> 00:56:05.237
the federal level? Who is we?

00:56:05.977 --> 00:56:11.717
Americans. I think at the local level, things like education,

00:56:12.317 --> 00:56:14.677
taxes, infrastructure.

00:56:15.477 --> 00:56:21.497
Housing, those are things that definitely should be at the local level.

00:56:21.737 --> 00:56:29.017
And I would even go as far as to say the organization of the civic organizations in your community.

00:56:29.417 --> 00:56:34.097
So you will have a place where, let's say, they need a sheriff's department

00:56:34.097 --> 00:56:36.557
and other places need a local police department.

00:56:36.657 --> 00:56:40.697
Based on, you know, whatever the demographic is of that city.

00:56:40.857 --> 00:56:45.197
But those are the things I definitely feel like need to be at a local level

00:56:45.197 --> 00:56:50.417
because they show the personality of that community. And every community is different.

00:56:50.837 --> 00:56:54.137
So there should be ways that the,

00:56:54.297 --> 00:56:58.917
you know, the local residents can impact what's happening in that city.

00:56:59.097 --> 00:57:02.917
But then we look at a federal structure.

00:57:02.917 --> 00:57:13.837
I think student loans and federal educational assistance, like funding universities,

00:57:14.397 --> 00:57:17.997
public, I'm sorry, universities and colleges and things of that nature.

00:57:19.077 --> 00:57:25.197
Regulations in regards to things like civil rights, right?

00:57:25.337 --> 00:57:28.997
That should be a federal thing. That should not be a local thing because you

00:57:28.997 --> 00:57:30.537
would have somewhere like a Redondo

00:57:30.537 --> 00:57:34.657
Beach or a Torrance where locally Torrance is still a sundown down.

00:57:34.857 --> 00:57:40.477
So you need something federally that, you know, governs that.

00:57:41.217 --> 00:57:47.677
You need a bigger, you need big picture for the federal agencies and you need

00:57:47.677 --> 00:57:52.717
more micro managing on the local level. Does that make sense?

00:57:53.077 --> 00:57:56.737
Oh, it makes total sense to me. I don't think it makes sense to the current

00:57:56.737 --> 00:57:58.617
administration, but it makes total sense to me.

00:57:58.957 --> 00:58:05.077
That's why things are in such a kerfuffle, because he wants to regulate even

00:58:05.077 --> 00:58:08.917
the most minute elements of a community.

00:58:09.137 --> 00:58:13.717
So that's also where I get excited about having a Gavin Newsom that says,

00:58:13.837 --> 00:58:16.357
you know what? I don't really know.

00:58:16.825 --> 00:58:22.105
What you're doing. So I'm going to go ahead and do what I need to do over here.

00:58:22.145 --> 00:58:24.185
And you keep tearing up stuff over there.

00:58:24.345 --> 00:58:29.985
And I'm just going to go ahead and take care of the fifth largest economy in

00:58:29.985 --> 00:58:31.925
the country. I'm going to go ahead and do that over here.

00:58:32.205 --> 00:58:34.865
In the world. Sorry. In the world. That's what I was going to say.

00:58:34.965 --> 00:58:38.245
In the world, not just the United States. Yeah, in the world. Absolutely.

00:58:38.645 --> 00:58:43.265
Like, you're not going to play with your tariffs over here. And the funny thing is, And,

00:58:43.545 --> 00:58:46.605
you know, I'm not sure when this is going to be published, but when I woke up

00:58:46.605 --> 00:58:48.885
this morning and saw the video of Gavin saying,

00:58:49.105 --> 00:58:54.125
we're already starting to work with other countries to make sure that at least

00:58:54.125 --> 00:59:00.465
they know California is willing to work with them so that our communities here

00:59:00.465 --> 00:59:02.605
don't suffer as much as everyone else.

00:59:03.185 --> 00:59:07.705
That's one of those moments where you think, you know what? It is expensive to live in California.

00:59:07.705 --> 00:59:12.345
But you know what? I think I might be willing to go ahead and pay a little something

00:59:12.345 --> 00:59:17.525
to have someone looking out for us as opposed to a, I don't know,

00:59:17.785 --> 00:59:20.085
South Carolina. I could be wrong.

00:59:20.805 --> 00:59:24.985
Well, I mean, it's just, you know, all I'm thinking about is,

00:59:25.545 --> 00:59:29.985
you know, at one time in this country, we were under Articles of Confederation.

00:59:30.625 --> 00:59:35.485
And each state had to make their own deals, you know, trade deals and all that

00:59:35.485 --> 00:59:40.465
kind of stuff and, you know, and make their own decisions about anything else,

00:59:40.625 --> 00:59:46.805
even their own militia and whether their militia was going to join in in a united effort or not.

00:59:47.225 --> 00:59:50.105
And that was pretty manageable with 13.

00:59:50.545 --> 00:59:58.685
I think it's it's insane at 50. But, you know, I, you know, and you're forcing

00:59:58.685 --> 01:00:04.185
governors like Newsom to make those kind of decisions and even play with those ideas.

01:00:05.165 --> 01:00:09.385
And, you know, I tell people all the time, Texas and California were their own

01:00:09.385 --> 01:00:12.165
countries at one point. So it's not unusual.

01:00:12.365 --> 01:00:17.565
It wouldn't be crazy if they decided, hey, we had enough of this and they break

01:00:17.565 --> 01:00:23.805
off again if if the trend continues. But I just don't think I don't think Americans

01:00:23.805 --> 01:00:24.845
have the stomach for that.

01:00:25.005 --> 01:00:28.165
I think they they Americans are being entertained right now.

01:00:28.925 --> 01:00:34.065
And as the money starts dwindling out of their pocketbook, the entertainment value will go away.

01:00:34.265 --> 01:00:40.565
And, you know, the person may not be worse than what we got,

01:00:40.645 --> 01:00:43.125
but he definitely is going to be he or she's going to be definitely better,

01:00:43.165 --> 01:00:46.925
you know, because people, they're not going to go to the extreme again.

01:00:48.105 --> 01:00:51.085
But it's hard to get worse than what we already have.

01:00:51.165 --> 01:00:56.945
The other thing is there's also a level of envy that people have,

01:00:56.945 --> 01:01:02.825
I hate to say this, for a California or even a Texas because—,

01:01:03.349 --> 01:01:07.969
You know, you have, you get to see how people function when they have someone

01:01:07.969 --> 01:01:10.349
looking out for their best interest and their economy is good.

01:01:10.549 --> 01:01:14.349
And no matter how bad you talk about California, people still want to come here. They do.

01:01:14.509 --> 01:01:18.689
And all of the hysteria about people are leaving California en masse,

01:01:18.889 --> 01:01:22.749
please wear, because the 405 and the 101 stay busy.

01:01:23.409 --> 01:01:25.449
We wish people would leave en masse.

01:01:26.689 --> 01:01:30.329
So, you know, a few people here or there, it's an even exchange.

01:01:30.529 --> 01:01:36.049
There are people leaving, there are people coming. We have transplants all the time, which is fine.

01:01:36.249 --> 01:01:41.209
We welcome diverse culture here. That's the difference is when people want to

01:01:41.209 --> 01:01:44.649
be able to be free in their diverse lifestyle,

01:01:44.969 --> 01:01:49.269
there's various different places you can go here, whether it's all the way up

01:01:49.269 --> 01:01:53.249
in Redlands and you want to be like an Aaron Rodgers,

01:01:53.649 --> 01:01:59.009
weird as all get out, or you want to live beat side, you know what I'm saying?

01:01:59.009 --> 01:02:04.709
You have options. So as bad as people want to make it seem, you have options.

01:02:04.909 --> 01:02:07.449
You get to live however it is you want to live.

01:02:07.849 --> 01:02:14.149
And it's hard when you live somewhere like a Mississippi, where you don't really

01:02:14.149 --> 01:02:15.729
get to live how you want to live.

01:02:15.969 --> 01:02:19.769
Yeah, there's no traffic, but at the same time, there's no education.

01:02:19.829 --> 01:02:24.629
They are burying people in John Doe graves behind police departments,

01:02:24.629 --> 01:02:28.949
and no one's governing things like that. Their health care is horrible.

01:02:29.609 --> 01:02:34.189
So, you know, people have choices. They're right about that. People have choices.

01:02:34.409 --> 01:02:39.149
But at the end of the day, I think everyone really wants to have a high quality

01:02:39.149 --> 01:02:42.249
of life without having to break the bank.

01:02:43.446 --> 01:02:47.646
So speaking about Mississippi, what's your connection with Mississippi?

01:02:48.566 --> 01:02:51.726
Well, my family, my grandfather's family is from Mississippi.

01:02:51.726 --> 01:02:54.246
They were a part of the Great Migration.

01:02:54.566 --> 01:03:00.586
So 17 brothers and sisters, all same mama, same daddy, came to California.

01:03:01.326 --> 01:03:07.526
One after the other would come start building wealth and then go back and get

01:03:07.526 --> 01:03:09.766
the next one and bring them back here.

01:03:10.466 --> 01:03:16.626
So I'm born and raised in San Jose, California, but a lot of my aunts and uncles

01:03:16.626 --> 01:03:21.926
wound up coming into Stockton and East Palo Alto and those places.

01:03:22.106 --> 01:03:26.926
But every two years, we will go back to Mississippi and have our family reunions there.

01:03:27.086 --> 01:03:33.826
So we'd fly into New Orleans, enjoy everything there, go through Gulfport and,

01:03:33.826 --> 01:03:35.506
you know, get some culture,

01:03:35.706 --> 01:03:40.906
play at the casino, know, and then go back to the farm where we would still

01:03:40.906 --> 01:03:42.946
learn how to fish. There's chickens.

01:03:43.506 --> 01:03:50.186
There's farming to be done. So we experienced that lifestyle while also living

01:03:50.186 --> 01:03:55.206
in California, bringing sugar cane back to California for those that couldn't

01:03:55.206 --> 01:03:57.066
come to the reunion to experience.

01:03:57.126 --> 01:04:01.806
But we have a very rich culture in Mississippi. We have a cemetery.

01:04:02.166 --> 01:04:05.166
My family has a cemetery in Mississippi.

01:04:05.586 --> 01:04:10.226
So being able to grow up, be born and raised in California, but still have deep

01:04:10.226 --> 01:04:16.306
roots and experience the culture of Mississippi, Columbia, it's actually Hattiesburg.

01:04:16.546 --> 01:04:21.186
We fly into Jackson or New Orleans and then drive through.

01:04:21.366 --> 01:04:25.666
But, you know, it was important to experience the culture of your people,

01:04:25.686 --> 01:04:27.146
no matter where you lived.

01:04:27.246 --> 01:04:32.306
In California, some of them wound up moving to like Nebraska and Arkansas, Florida, even.

01:04:33.408 --> 01:04:36.448
That's where my grandfather and his people are from. Yeah.

01:04:37.148 --> 01:04:41.508
You did a Mississippi thing right there. You named the biggest city to your small town.

01:04:41.628 --> 01:04:45.608
The town is Sumrall from what I understand, right? It is. Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:46.268 --> 01:04:50.208
That's where people is like, I always used to the best of my friends in the Delta.

01:04:50.408 --> 01:04:53.988
They's like, oh, man, I'm from Greenville. No, you know, you're from Hollindale.

01:04:54.108 --> 01:04:54.928
That's right down the road.

01:04:55.428 --> 01:04:58.648
You just claimed the biggest city that was next to you. I already know how that goes.

01:04:59.968 --> 01:05:03.668
People, listen, people don't know. And it's funny that I brought up Aaron Rodgers

01:05:03.668 --> 01:05:06.448
because Brett Favre lived around the corner from my grandfather's house.

01:05:06.628 --> 01:05:13.948
So we his house, you know, lit up the area before they actually had street signs.

01:05:14.808 --> 01:05:18.628
That's where he was born and raised. So when you hear that, when I heard about

01:05:18.628 --> 01:05:23.168
that, I lost that lawsuit in the case that he was involved in still in the money.

01:05:23.388 --> 01:05:27.848
I'm literally thinking about that community that these people come from.

01:05:27.848 --> 01:05:34.708
And I'm still in awe that this dude is like helping to siphon money from social

01:05:34.708 --> 01:05:38.228
services for his daughter's school because this is a very,

01:05:38.568 --> 01:05:43.508
listen, you will give people directions and it wouldn't be like turn left on Clark Avenue.

01:05:43.708 --> 01:05:49.908
It would be like at the third tree before the ditch by the thing. Like what?

01:05:50.328 --> 01:05:53.848
See, my house is the only house that has a light in the driveway.

01:05:54.228 --> 01:05:58.308
So just keep driving. Don't turn in nobody. The house with the light in the

01:05:58.308 --> 01:06:00.648
driveway. That's mine. Come on.

01:06:01.188 --> 01:06:05.608
Been there, done that. Yes. That was it. So, yeah, I didn't say Hattiesburg.

01:06:05.748 --> 01:06:08.968
I'm like, it's like 10 people know where Hattiesburg is, literally.

01:06:11.048 --> 01:06:17.428
So let's get into a little bit about your childhood, because you went through

01:06:17.428 --> 01:06:19.488
a personal strategy that you documented

01:06:19.488 --> 01:06:23.028
in your book entitled The Child's Memories of Cartoons and Murder.

01:06:23.028 --> 01:06:29.588
Talk to the listeners about that and how that has guided part of your advocacy journey.

01:06:29.968 --> 01:06:37.508
So when I was four and a half, my uncle from my mother's mother's side of the family,

01:06:37.788 --> 01:06:45.848
him and his friends came into our home and shot my mother and killed her boyfriend

01:06:45.848 --> 01:06:49.168
while she was pregnant in front of me and his son.

01:06:49.168 --> 01:06:56.088
And apparently there had been some street activity going on that obviously I

01:06:56.088 --> 01:06:58.128
was not privy to at that age.

01:06:58.348 --> 01:07:03.148
But as I continue to learn about the story and how I even got into a position

01:07:03.148 --> 01:07:07.768
to witness my mother being shot and her boyfriend being murdered.

01:07:09.067 --> 01:07:17.047
Became very clear that one, my mother was very clear about my uncle who she had bitten.

01:07:18.147 --> 01:07:21.507
She had, she'd been in street stuff. She, she, you know, there's,

01:07:21.627 --> 01:07:22.907
let me be very transparent.

01:07:23.047 --> 01:07:27.067
There are some women that just like, like that life. And she was in the life.

01:07:27.647 --> 01:07:32.147
And when I started doing my research about the book and the incident,

01:07:32.407 --> 01:07:37.767
a few things I found out is that he had multiple convictions for pimping and

01:07:37.767 --> 01:07:42.747
pandering, guns and drugs all through California.

01:07:43.167 --> 01:07:45.627
So why he was even out, I still don't know.

01:07:46.227 --> 01:07:51.387
Also, her boyfriend had a previous conviction for murder. She was pregnant when

01:07:51.387 --> 01:07:53.367
he got shot, when she got shot.

01:07:53.567 --> 01:08:01.887
So my brother was born obviously with some mental issues because when women

01:08:01.887 --> 01:08:07.267
are traumatized during pregnancy, something is likely going to be wrong with her child.

01:08:07.447 --> 01:08:10.827
All of these things I'm learning in my 20s while I'm researching this book.

01:08:11.627 --> 01:08:19.207
And also, we were in a federal witness protection program while this case was going on.

01:08:19.347 --> 01:08:24.987
And one of my uncles on my grandfather's side had passed away during this time

01:08:24.987 --> 01:08:26.147
and we couldn't go to the funeral.

01:08:26.527 --> 01:08:31.827
So as I started doing more research on that, I found out that the uncle that

01:08:31.827 --> 01:08:35.587
had shot my mom also possibly had something to do with that.

01:08:36.027 --> 01:08:41.227
All this being said, I started doing more research on our criminal justice system

01:08:41.227 --> 01:08:48.047
because I was registered from the time I was five or six until not too long

01:08:48.047 --> 01:08:51.027
ago in victim services with California.

01:08:51.027 --> 01:08:54.907
So understanding what that looked like, I would get information on...

01:08:56.527 --> 01:09:00.647
Uncle when he was up for parole and things of that nature.

01:09:00.807 --> 01:09:04.767
So I learned a lot about the criminal justice system based on my experience

01:09:04.767 --> 01:09:07.207
and research through this book.

01:09:07.327 --> 01:09:16.767
He was paroled twice, and Governor Jerry Brown and Governor Schwarzenegger rescinded

01:09:16.767 --> 01:09:21.767
his parole because they still felt like he was a threat to society.

01:09:21.807 --> 01:09:26.287
So at no point did he ever take responsibility for what he had done.

01:09:27.167 --> 01:09:31.907
And continued to place blame in other places. Eventually, I stopped writing

01:09:31.907 --> 01:09:37.767
letters to the parole board and things probably about maybe eight years ago. He got out.

01:09:38.307 --> 01:09:43.047
I did not protest it. He had cancer. He died soon after.

01:09:43.527 --> 01:09:50.247
But I learned a lot. I wanted to know as a child why I had to go through things like this.

01:09:50.687 --> 01:09:55.627
You know, kids that go through trauma, They don't know if it's because of a

01:09:55.627 --> 01:10:03.907
low self-worth, low value. Am I not valued by the people that should be protecting me?

01:10:05.087 --> 01:10:09.847
And as you matriculate through your life, elementary school,

01:10:09.987 --> 01:10:13.527
junior high school, things of that nature, literally we wear a mask because

01:10:13.527 --> 01:10:17.147
we don't want people to know what is going on at our home.

01:10:17.147 --> 01:10:21.967
I was always a happy kid, and I was scholastically...

01:10:23.750 --> 01:10:28.830
Superior. I was in gate class and always had great grades, never got in trouble.

01:10:29.190 --> 01:10:32.310
So yeah, I had questions like, what is going on?

01:10:32.870 --> 01:10:37.290
All that being said, after, here's the thing, after all of this was over and

01:10:37.290 --> 01:10:41.270
I wrote my book and I started touring, I started speaking at schools,

01:10:41.950 --> 01:10:44.050
I finally reconnected with my father.

01:10:44.270 --> 01:10:48.610
Do you know he knew nothing about nothing that had happened in my life.

01:10:50.370 --> 01:10:56.290
He said he didn't find out until, you know, I was in my 20s or something of that nature.

01:10:56.530 --> 01:11:01.510
And that blew my mind also because I was like, that is crazy to have a child

01:11:01.510 --> 01:11:02.950
as tight as I am with my kids.

01:11:03.210 --> 01:11:08.850
That is crazy to find out that all of these things happened in your child's

01:11:08.850 --> 01:11:10.970
life and you were nowhere around.

01:11:11.190 --> 01:11:14.170
So that was my childhood.

01:11:14.450 --> 01:11:17.310
And the book was really about telling the

01:11:17.310 --> 01:11:20.290
story of that child what that

01:11:20.290 --> 01:11:23.590
child went through not just when it

01:11:23.590 --> 01:11:30.430
happened but trying to process that through adolescence and young adulthood

01:11:30.430 --> 01:11:36.610
and relationships and you know higher education pursuits and things of that

01:11:36.610 --> 01:11:40.970
nature so that's that's really a child's memories of cartoons and murder.

01:11:41.930 --> 01:11:47.650
Yeah. So, but you got involved with, didn't you get involved with one of the

01:11:47.650 --> 01:11:54.450
anti, well, I shouldn't say anti-gun, but the gun control organizations?

01:11:54.850 --> 01:12:00.090
Yeah, so after I published the book, I wanted to form partnerships with organizations

01:12:00.090 --> 01:12:09.090
that were doing two things, helping young people deal with trauma from gun violence and helping people.

01:12:10.570 --> 01:12:15.790
Understand what gun violence does. So I'm a speaker for, I became a fellow of

01:12:15.790 --> 01:12:18.850
Everytown for Gun Violence and Moms Demand Action.

01:12:19.130 --> 01:12:25.270
And in that process, I've been speaking to Congress and anyone that will listen

01:12:25.270 --> 01:12:30.850
or needs to hear the story to fight for better gun legislation.

01:12:31.330 --> 01:12:37.850
And I've always been under the guise that, because I'm a habitual complainer, okay?

01:12:37.910 --> 01:12:41.210
I'm a tourist, I'm a habitual complainer, you know, typical wife,

01:12:41.490 --> 01:12:42.750
mama, always complaining about something.

01:12:42.910 --> 01:12:45.490
But I've always felt like, and my grandfather used to teach me,

01:12:45.770 --> 01:12:48.050
don't complain about it unless you're going to be a part of the solution.

01:12:48.370 --> 01:12:52.010
So there are things I won't complain about out loud because please don't ask me to help you.

01:12:52.390 --> 01:12:56.770
But if I'm going to complain about it out loud, I'm definitely willing to be

01:12:56.770 --> 01:12:59.350
a part of helping to solve the problem.

01:12:59.550 --> 01:13:05.370
So I've been with Everytown and Moms Demand for about five years now.

01:13:06.470 --> 01:13:13.030
Okay. Yeah, so you know Congresswoman McBride and Shannon Watts pretty well. Oh, yes.

01:13:13.250 --> 01:13:16.470
Shannon is one to follow. She, yeah, fearless.

01:13:17.030 --> 01:13:20.390
Fearless. Those are some fearless women. Yeah.

01:13:20.650 --> 01:13:29.250
I haven't met Shannon. We're connected on the interwebs. But I had met Congresswoman

01:13:29.250 --> 01:13:34.270
McBride before she got into Congress when she was doing a mom-to-man action work.

01:13:34.510 --> 01:13:41.210
And yeah, yeah, solid, solid, solid ladies. The great thing about these organizations,

01:13:41.210 --> 01:13:48.230
too, though, is they prep you and support you through learning how to be a part of the solution.

01:13:48.430 --> 01:13:53.670
So they don't just throw you out there. If you want to run for office or a higher

01:13:53.670 --> 01:13:56.810
office, any kind of higher office that...

01:13:58.139 --> 01:14:02.679
Takes part in legislation or improvements in your community.

01:14:03.119 --> 01:14:08.559
It could just be, I want to be on the board of the YMCA because that's preventative

01:14:08.559 --> 01:14:09.699
work. You know what I'm saying?

01:14:09.979 --> 01:14:14.499
They help you through that. And I think that's one of the most valuable assets

01:14:14.499 --> 01:14:15.999
to organizations like that.

01:14:16.759 --> 01:14:21.579
Yeah. Yeah. That is key. You got to teach folks how to fight for their rights. Yeah.

01:14:22.059 --> 01:14:27.799
You can't just stand in a corner yelling and being mad. You got to have some tangible results.

01:14:28.719 --> 01:14:31.939
Yeah, you got to be tactical. So let me be honest.

01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:37.239
You caught my attention when I saw that you were the chair of the Los Angeles

01:14:37.239 --> 01:14:40.859
County Commission on Alcohol and Other Drugs.

01:14:41.679 --> 01:14:46.519
Explain the purpose of the commission and what impact have you seen based on

01:14:46.519 --> 01:14:49.559
your work? Because you're the chair of that commission. Am I right on that?

01:14:49.939 --> 01:14:55.299
You are. You are. So the Commission of Alcohol and Other Drugs is set up to

01:14:55.299 --> 01:15:03.099
advise the county commissioners on legislation and programmatic opportunities for the county.

01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:06.339
L.A. County is the largest county in the nation, so we have some of the largest

01:15:06.339 --> 01:15:12.759
problems in the nation, especially when it comes to alcohol and drugs and other substances.

01:15:13.399 --> 01:15:18.459
So we stay abreast of any legislation that might be coming out.

01:15:18.459 --> 01:15:21.099
We have like a Senator Weiner.

01:15:21.279 --> 01:15:23.979
He's always, and I hope I don't catch too much heat for this,

01:15:24.059 --> 01:15:27.899
but he's always proposing legislation that's absolutely ridiculous.

01:15:27.899 --> 01:15:35.579
It feels like maybe the alcohol industry is slipping him a little thank you

01:15:35.579 --> 01:15:38.259
here and there. He will propose something like.

01:15:39.243 --> 01:15:48.463
If an event is over at 12 a.m., we think that you should still be able to sell liquor until 4.30 a.m.

01:15:48.863 --> 01:15:52.823
Well, why, sir? Well, why? What kind of sense does that make?

01:15:53.003 --> 01:15:59.163
Well, it helps to spur more commerce. It also helps to increase DUIs.

01:15:59.623 --> 01:16:06.823
Our job is to identify what's good, bad, and otherwise to then advise our supervisors.

01:16:06.823 --> 01:16:11.703
And for people that don't understand how, you know, Los Angeles is organized

01:16:11.703 --> 01:16:16.943
in Los Angeles County, I'm sorry, the fires that came up is a good example of

01:16:16.943 --> 01:16:20.423
people not understanding how Los Angeles County is put together.

01:16:20.783 --> 01:16:23.563
You have mayors of cities, right?

01:16:23.763 --> 01:16:29.163
But some cities, some unincorporated cities, do not have a mayor.

01:16:29.403 --> 01:16:34.603
You would take, I think, like Marina Del Rey, maybe? Our supervisor in that

01:16:34.603 --> 01:16:37.863
district is technically the mayor of that city.

01:16:38.023 --> 01:16:42.743
But also, the supervisors are like the mayor for the county.

01:16:43.163 --> 01:16:49.223
So everything goes through them. Any new budgets, laws, programs.

01:16:49.623 --> 01:16:55.703
They just tried to, I think they just put together some more new homeless budgeting, some program.

01:16:55.983 --> 01:16:58.983
It goes through them and it's voted on through them. So our

01:16:58.983 --> 01:17:04.303
job is to advise our supervisors from our district so when it's time for them

01:17:04.303 --> 01:17:11.563
to either reject or pass laws or funding for programs that they understand that

01:17:11.563 --> 01:17:16.243
we did due diligence in giving them said advice to make those decisions.

01:17:17.183 --> 01:17:21.923
I am the chair currently and the last chair currently.

01:17:22.472 --> 01:17:27.692
And many of us, many of us commissioners that are currently on this board have

01:17:27.692 --> 01:17:32.572
decided that we need to focus a lot more of our attention on our young people.

01:17:32.692 --> 01:17:40.792
As large as Los Angeles County is, we only have one residential treatment facility

01:17:40.792 --> 01:17:46.672
for youth, okay? We have tons for adults. We have one for youth.

01:17:47.072 --> 01:17:51.492
The way that we're dealing with young people when it comes to drugs and alcohol

01:17:51.492 --> 01:17:55.092
is unacceptable to me and many of us.

01:17:55.392 --> 01:18:01.692
So my charge has been having a hyper-focus on young people.

01:18:01.712 --> 01:18:07.292
And I truly believe that a lot of the work that we're doing is at least bringing

01:18:07.292 --> 01:18:14.192
attention to the fact that there needs to be more prevention and education and

01:18:14.192 --> 01:18:19.892
collaboration in our county to bring these numbers down.

01:18:20.592 --> 01:18:25.632
Because we have gotten to a place, this is the kind of the catch 22,

01:18:26.312 --> 01:18:31.052
you know, not just talking about DEI, but looking at how minorities are treated

01:18:31.052 --> 01:18:36.712
when it comes to laws and substance abuse and substances in homes.

01:18:36.892 --> 01:18:43.272
We know that people get started most of the time on drugs and alcohol in the home, right?

01:18:43.552 --> 01:18:51.912
And then we cannot punitively deal with our young people without doing the other

01:18:51.912 --> 01:18:55.192
work, the education, the prevention, things of that nature.

01:18:55.792 --> 01:18:59.232
We're getting caught up in, you know, just arresting them. You can't arrest

01:18:59.232 --> 01:19:00.212
yourself out of addiction.

01:19:01.232 --> 01:19:05.012
But the catch-22 is no one, so now no one is being penalized.

01:19:05.032 --> 01:19:09.672
So when kids are in school now, if they get caught with substances, they get a talking to.

01:19:10.232 --> 01:19:14.272
Well, that's not helping either. Get a talking to. Oh, and then next time we

01:19:14.272 --> 01:19:17.492
talk to them and their parents, well, half of them is getting it from their parents.

01:19:17.792 --> 01:19:22.132
Or now parents are providing a safe space for their kids to do these things,

01:19:23.032 --> 01:19:28.472
so that they can say, well, at least he's not outside doing it. This isn't working.

01:19:29.412 --> 01:19:34.292
These numbers are still going up and this is not working. So our job and our

01:19:34.292 --> 01:19:39.452
focus has been finding other ways to make aware,

01:19:39.452 --> 01:19:45.312
make our leaders aware that we have to be more strategic and solution-oriented

01:19:45.312 --> 01:19:48.972
to dealing with young people when it comes to alcohol and other drugs.

01:19:49.792 --> 01:19:55.472
Yeah, and that sounds like, you know, well, I know it's a worthy cause,

01:19:55.592 --> 01:20:00.092
but, you know, it's just amazing that, you know,

01:20:00.892 --> 01:20:06.432
Los Angeles County had the foresight to set something up like that.

01:20:06.932 --> 01:20:08.752
I had never heard of that.

01:20:09.332 --> 01:20:11.612
Like I said, I grew up in Chicago.

01:20:12.492 --> 01:20:15.792
Of course, they weren't dealing with stuff back then when I was growing up, but.

01:20:17.323 --> 01:20:20.683
Being in Jackson and politics there and then now being here in Atlanta,

01:20:20.943 --> 01:20:22.603
I had never heard of that before.

01:20:22.603 --> 01:20:28.723
So I thought it's really interesting that the county felt that it was important

01:20:28.723 --> 01:20:34.243
enough to really set up a commission to really get some ideas,

01:20:34.243 --> 01:20:38.363
some fresh eyes outside of whatever lobby.

01:20:38.363 --> 01:20:43.443
Because like you said, the senator you mentioned, yeah, whatever alcohol lobby

01:20:43.443 --> 01:20:47.603
is in that state is definitely in his pocket if he's pushing that kind of stuff.

01:20:48.243 --> 01:20:53.743
You know, I was a legislator for nine years, so I know, you know,

01:20:53.883 --> 01:20:58.383
people, people be trying, they be trying to buy a legislator as much as they could.

01:20:58.963 --> 01:21:02.223
You know, that's just, that's just how it goes. So, you know,

01:21:02.303 --> 01:21:08.083
you're going to have to face those kind of people, but to actually have a commission to deal with that.

01:21:08.363 --> 01:21:12.463
And to be a counteraction with that, that is credit.

01:21:12.643 --> 01:21:18.903
Now, you're in an uphill battle, as you eloquently pointed out,

01:21:19.023 --> 01:21:20.923
but at least you're in the battle.

01:21:21.603 --> 01:21:28.223
There's other states, major metropolitan areas that don't even take the issue on like that.

01:21:28.223 --> 01:21:34.283
And so, you know, I commend you for for not only putting yourself on the commission,

01:21:34.443 --> 01:21:37.663
but actually leading commission to doing that kind of work.

01:21:39.043 --> 01:21:45.643
So let's let's talk about your your company, Sun and Sand and Shores.

01:21:46.323 --> 01:21:50.783
What what was the what is the mission of that company and why do you why did

01:21:50.783 --> 01:21:52.403
you feel the need to start it?

01:21:52.403 --> 01:21:56.203
Sand & Shores is a marketing, PR,

01:21:56.643 --> 01:22:03.083
branding firm that I started because I recognize that people telling their stories

01:22:03.083 --> 01:22:08.643
is much more important than their titles or whatever it is they're trying to sell.

01:22:08.963 --> 01:22:13.803
And what I mean by that is, you know, even how we started our conversation,

01:22:13.803 --> 01:22:17.583
we got into just some important topics.

01:22:17.763 --> 01:22:22.143
We did some icebreakers. We got into some topics. But that is connection.

01:22:22.403 --> 01:22:26.883
I don't care what your title is if it's not connected to impact.

01:22:27.982 --> 01:22:35.162
I don't care who you think you are if it's unimportant to the people that you

01:22:35.162 --> 01:22:37.722
should be impacting or affecting.

01:22:38.042 --> 01:22:43.742
And when businesses are trying to sell their products and get you to buy into

01:22:43.742 --> 01:22:52.202
their services, what is true is that people buy and support those that they know, like, and trust.

01:22:52.202 --> 01:22:57.462
And there's no better way to get people to support you than to get them to know,

01:22:57.622 --> 01:23:01.562
like, and trust you through your stories, your stories of impact.

01:23:01.562 --> 01:23:03.662
How have you impacted their life?

01:23:03.902 --> 01:23:12.022
I started my company because I was with a publishing company out here in L.A.

01:23:12.342 --> 01:23:15.562
And I've been in marketing and PR all of my career.

01:23:16.062 --> 01:23:20.342
And we were doing a lot of advertising. And, you know, companies are promising

01:23:20.342 --> 01:23:22.482
like, oh, you get to, I'll see your ad.

01:23:22.842 --> 01:23:26.862
We'll see your ad 5,000 times. So you can purchase a front page,

01:23:27.302 --> 01:23:32.502
a cover ad or front page ad for $5,000.

01:23:32.862 --> 01:23:36.402
And I can tell you 20,000 people are going to see that ad.

01:23:36.922 --> 01:23:40.402
Well, they weren't using technology, first of all, to prove that.

01:23:40.562 --> 01:23:43.102
So you're just telling me that and I'm supposed to trust you.

01:23:43.102 --> 01:23:50.642
On top of the fact that when is the last time you remember a full-page ad in a magazine,

01:23:50.982 --> 01:23:58.922
as opposed to remembering a story that somebody told you or a story that you read, right?

01:23:59.322 --> 01:24:03.962
And I wanted to start a business, start a publication. I started a publication

01:24:03.962 --> 01:24:06.202
first. It was Real Estate Agent Magazine.

01:24:06.442 --> 01:24:11.202
And a lot of my advertisers recognized that they needed more than just an ad.

01:24:11.202 --> 01:24:13.342
So I started doing PR for them.

01:24:13.482 --> 01:24:18.202
And then I got so addicted to the impact that the stories were making that I

01:24:18.202 --> 01:24:23.242
just turned it into a full PR firm, meaning we help you tell your story,

01:24:23.402 --> 01:24:27.062
whether that's on social media, in publications, on TV.

01:24:28.801 --> 01:24:34.261
Person, so public speaking, how do you get people to connect to you?

01:24:34.421 --> 01:24:37.321
How do you get people to know, like, and trust you?

01:24:37.501 --> 01:24:40.681
And I started my company after my husband started his company,

01:24:40.861 --> 01:24:44.701
which was Red Beach Advisors, once we moved back to Southern California,

01:24:44.721 --> 01:24:47.101
because I'm from the Bay Area, born and raised.

01:24:47.281 --> 01:24:51.141
He started Red Beach Advisors, so he basically helps tech firms do the same

01:24:51.141 --> 01:24:54.401
thing I do with Sand & Shores.

01:24:54.581 --> 01:24:59.081
He helps them connect to their target market and grow their business.

01:24:59.261 --> 01:25:02.641
I do the same thing just through stories. And that's Sand & Shores.

01:25:02.941 --> 01:25:07.221
We are stationed out here in Redondo Beach, California, but we're global.

01:25:07.421 --> 01:25:13.541
I've done business in Poland and Africa and various different places because

01:25:13.541 --> 01:25:17.881
storytelling, it spans across industries.

01:25:18.201 --> 01:25:22.201
There's no end to how your story can impact others.

01:25:23.241 --> 01:25:30.021
Right. And one of the things I had noticed is that you like to focus as clientele,

01:25:30.221 --> 01:25:33.481
you mentioned about real estate, but also nonprofits.

01:25:34.821 --> 01:25:39.441
You want to help nonprofits be able to tell their story better.

01:25:39.601 --> 01:25:47.781
Just kind of what is it about a nonprofit that makes them a good client?

01:25:48.281 --> 01:25:50.761
It's nonprofit and civic organizations.

01:25:51.521 --> 01:25:55.621
One, it's helping them recognize that the public is their client, right?

01:25:55.821 --> 01:26:01.521
So whether it's the YMCA or the Chamber of Commerce or the police department,

01:26:01.761 --> 01:26:05.841
your client, your customer is that community that you serve.

01:26:05.981 --> 01:26:08.481
And many of them don't recognize that.

01:26:08.701 --> 01:26:13.141
Working with the police departments, helping them understand that you You can't

01:26:13.141 --> 01:26:16.181
just tell people to trust you because of your title or your shield.

01:26:16.501 --> 01:26:20.261
You have to show them that you are trustworthy. You have to help them get to

01:26:20.261 --> 01:26:24.001
know you, whether it's a YMCA, a Boys and Girls Club.

01:26:24.661 --> 01:26:28.001
What kind of impact are you doing? Who are you?

01:26:28.937 --> 01:26:32.597
Getting people to know who the CEO is, the executive director,

01:26:32.897 --> 01:26:37.297
the stories of the people that they have helped in the past,

01:26:37.297 --> 01:26:42.437
that lets people know that your investment in that organization is impactful,

01:26:42.437 --> 01:26:49.517
whether that's a donation or your time, because they grow through volunteerism, right?

01:26:49.657 --> 01:26:54.197
Many of these organizations grow through volunteerism and people lending their time.

01:26:54.377 --> 01:26:56.417
Well, why would I give my time to you?

01:26:56.937 --> 01:27:01.097
Well, when I'm able to show you the impact that you giving your time or your

01:27:01.097 --> 01:27:06.057
donation has, it makes it much more pervasive.

01:27:06.497 --> 01:27:12.377
You feel like not only do you want to do it, you might actually go get somebody else to do it with you.

01:27:12.777 --> 01:27:17.997
You don't always have to tell people about it because other people tell other people about it.

01:27:18.057 --> 01:27:20.877
I teach people, you know, when it comes to PR, for the most part,

01:27:21.037 --> 01:27:25.717
marketing is you telling people how amazing you are. PR is other people telling

01:27:25.717 --> 01:27:27.577
other people how amazing you are.

01:27:27.737 --> 01:27:32.637
And when you can impact a community so much that they are telling other people,

01:27:32.837 --> 01:27:34.897
hey, yeah, go ahead and volunteer over here.

01:27:35.037 --> 01:27:38.317
Oh, you have some young people and they're looking for some community service

01:27:38.317 --> 01:27:42.417
time to put on their high school transcripts, college transcripts.

01:27:42.557 --> 01:27:45.697
I got this great organization over here that you might want to do this.

01:27:45.837 --> 01:27:47.997
Oh, the police department is doing a fundraiser.

01:27:48.577 --> 01:27:53.177
Great. I think we can, you know, go sell some tickets and we can all go.

01:27:53.697 --> 01:27:58.397
Because time is something we don't get back. It's priceless.

01:27:58.697 --> 01:28:01.797
So how are you spending it? What are you investing it in?

01:28:02.037 --> 01:28:08.997
Being able to elevate your organization by giving it credibility and showing impact is important.

01:28:09.137 --> 01:28:12.897
And they don't always understand that. You know, you go into business and you

01:28:12.897 --> 01:28:16.997
go, oh, I do a thing and I just want you to join us doing this thing.

01:28:17.117 --> 01:28:19.757
No, show impact. Talk about the people you're impacting.

01:28:20.317 --> 01:28:27.297
Recently, I worked with, I have a dream foundation and it was crazy because

01:28:27.297 --> 01:28:33.037
one of the young ladies who had recently passed away in my county district,

01:28:33.037 --> 01:28:35.077
which I knew about her story.

01:28:35.077 --> 01:28:38.497
It was a, it was a shooting right off the freeway.

01:28:39.866 --> 01:28:44.586
I wound up talking to her mom. We just, you know, connected on social media or something.

01:28:44.946 --> 01:28:51.546
And the organization that I was doing PR for, the young lady was an alumni from that organization.

01:28:51.886 --> 01:28:55.706
And it was just a full circle moment once I started working with them,

01:28:55.886 --> 01:28:59.866
which I used to volunteer for them. So I also volunteered.

01:29:00.326 --> 01:29:01.926
Then they became a client.

01:29:02.486 --> 01:29:06.746
Just so happens, this tragedy that happened, one of the girls was an alumni.

01:29:07.286 --> 01:29:12.906
It was just a very full circle moment. that we're able to talk about, elevate,

01:29:13.286 --> 01:29:19.506
raise money off of, and then continue to use her story as other ways to get

01:29:19.506 --> 01:29:22.286
more volunteers and impact more lives.

01:29:22.406 --> 01:29:26.626
So it just becomes, you know, something that it's legacy building.

01:29:26.826 --> 01:29:29.486
I'll leave it there. It's legacy building.

01:29:30.326 --> 01:29:33.866
Yeah. And that's very important. Even the little minutiae things.

01:29:34.046 --> 01:29:41.046
I remember, you know, I was working at ACLU and in Mississippi, that's always a battle.

01:29:41.646 --> 01:29:45.126
And, but I was able to get an amendment.

01:29:45.286 --> 01:29:49.446
They wanted to pass this blue lives matter bill where they, you know,

01:29:49.566 --> 01:29:53.166
if anything, make anything against a police officer was a hate crime.

01:29:53.726 --> 01:29:58.206
So I was able to get an amendment in, in the bill.

01:29:59.226 --> 01:30:03.866
You know, I had lobbied, I got one of the senators to introduce the amendment

01:30:03.866 --> 01:30:11.006
to make sure that it didn't violate, you know, this law would not abridge any

01:30:11.006 --> 01:30:12.746
First Amendment rights. Right.

01:30:13.286 --> 01:30:18.286
And it got passed. So, you know, we were you know, we were kind of doing our assessments.

01:30:18.566 --> 01:30:22.826
And the executive director came in my office and she started fussing.

01:30:22.926 --> 01:30:26.006
She said, Eric, what did you do this session?

01:30:26.166 --> 01:30:28.806
I said, well, you know, we were getting our butts kicked. She said,

01:30:28.906 --> 01:30:31.086
no, no, you did something in the session. What did you do?

01:30:31.946 --> 01:30:34.706
I said, well, we did get an amendment on that Blue Lives Matter.

01:30:34.826 --> 01:30:37.346
But she said, why didn't you tell me about that?

01:30:38.406 --> 01:30:41.866
You know, it was going to be in my report for the end of the year.

01:30:42.106 --> 01:30:42.626
You know what I'm saying?

01:30:42.986 --> 01:30:47.206
She said, no, we can tell the story about that. You know, we give people hope.

01:30:47.806 --> 01:30:51.766
And I was like, yes, ma'am. And so, you know, like you said,

01:30:51.986 --> 01:30:53.426
it's all part of the legacy.

01:30:53.646 --> 01:30:59.226
Even if you're going, you don't think you're making impact, the little things do matter.

01:30:59.506 --> 01:31:03.526
So that's why I wanted you to tell the story about Sand and Shores,

01:31:03.526 --> 01:31:10.066
because it's so important for organizations that are doing the work to be uplifted.

01:31:10.146 --> 01:31:14.626
That's really part of my motivation for doing this podcast, other than,

01:31:14.626 --> 01:31:18.206
you know, me getting upset with what's going on in politics.

01:31:18.206 --> 01:31:22.646
But to really uplift people that are doing the work. So...

01:31:23.130 --> 01:31:27.550
Let's tie that in with my next question, in that you have been very active with

01:31:27.550 --> 01:31:29.030
the Black Podcasters Association.

01:31:29.290 --> 01:31:32.130
You've conducted some workshops and so on.

01:31:32.470 --> 01:31:35.490
Why do you believe in the power of podcasting?

01:31:36.070 --> 01:31:42.810
I think it's one of the most authentic things that we have accessible to us

01:31:42.810 --> 01:31:47.110
that we can control and show our expertise.

01:31:47.590 --> 01:31:50.130
Right. We don't have to.

01:31:50.670 --> 01:31:57.570
There's no one way to do it. It's very much customized to who you are and what you represent.

01:31:58.390 --> 01:32:01.070
I continue to tell them, and I've been saying this for years,

01:32:01.350 --> 01:32:06.610
is that you podcasters are the new media. They are.

01:32:07.190 --> 01:32:12.090
If I like what you're talking about and I trust you, so we're back to the no

01:32:12.090 --> 01:32:15.030
like and trust, right? I'm going to continue to go back to you.

01:32:15.550 --> 01:32:17.910
I'm just going to keep coming back because I like what you're saying.

01:32:17.910 --> 01:32:20.990
If you're wrong and I tell you you're wrong and you might talk about it on your

01:32:20.990 --> 01:32:23.350
show, We can have an honest conversation.

01:32:23.970 --> 01:32:29.270
You are building a platform that people learn to trust you.

01:32:29.410 --> 01:32:35.550
And our media right now, mainstream media is so untrustworthy and they are so

01:32:35.550 --> 01:32:40.630
leaning one way or the other instead of just truthful,

01:32:40.890 --> 01:32:46.250
instead of just being honest, instead of covering whatever it is you say you're going to cover.

01:32:46.250 --> 01:32:49.990
So if you're a sports podcaster, but all you're covering is LeBron James,

01:32:50.610 --> 01:32:53.750
sir, I will not be back. I am bored. I need more.

01:32:54.070 --> 01:33:01.770
So people find what works for them and they begin to depend on that and then they contribute to it.

01:33:01.930 --> 01:33:08.070
And the podcaster also shows value to their viewership.

01:33:08.070 --> 01:33:15.430
This is something I can control and I get to show appreciation for you leaning

01:33:15.430 --> 01:33:18.010
in and having this conversation with me.

01:33:18.900 --> 01:33:23.120
You don't get that anywhere else. That is an authentic relationship that you

01:33:23.120 --> 01:33:26.020
can't create with mainstream media.

01:33:26.420 --> 01:33:32.440
They're so beholden to either their advertisers or ownership that they're losing

01:33:32.440 --> 01:33:37.100
the fact that you are supposed to be there to disseminate information to me.

01:33:37.300 --> 01:33:41.440
So now I'm just going to go to someone I know will always disseminate information

01:33:41.440 --> 01:33:45.700
to me in a space that I enjoy getting it, right?

01:33:46.160 --> 01:33:53.820
And I think we underestimate our value, our worth, and our ability to make change

01:33:53.820 --> 01:33:55.980
and impact. You would even look at a Shea Shea.

01:33:56.320 --> 01:34:00.820
You know, he didn't start off this hot. Some people would not ever.

01:34:01.380 --> 01:34:05.920
But, you know, you do have a Cat Williams. You do have the Black community going

01:34:05.920 --> 01:34:10.640
to him now to see who he's bringing on and what conversation are they having.

01:34:10.800 --> 01:34:14.420
I'm not going to watch every show, but he is going to have people on there where

01:34:14.420 --> 01:34:16.320
I'm like, This is a part of the culture.

01:34:16.540 --> 01:34:20.300
I want to hear what they have to say. I trust that he's going to at least have

01:34:20.300 --> 01:34:22.820
a conversation that I can get some value from.

01:34:23.580 --> 01:34:26.720
Same with me. My leaders and learners platform has always been.

01:34:26.840 --> 01:34:28.180
We've been doing this for six years now.

01:34:28.400 --> 01:34:33.020
When I do get amazing guests, we're having an honest conversation.

01:34:33.020 --> 01:34:37.300
April Ryan from White House Correspondent.

01:34:37.940 --> 01:34:42.160
She is a well-known journalist. We're going to have an honest conversation.

01:34:42.440 --> 01:34:45.800
One thing you know you're going to get from me is a story and an honest conversation.

01:34:46.020 --> 01:34:49.560
And if you tune in live, I'm asking any question that you pose.

01:34:49.720 --> 01:34:51.280
We're not hiding from the truth.

01:34:51.440 --> 01:34:55.140
And we're going to have these complex conversations.

01:34:55.780 --> 01:34:58.920
People start knowing where they can go to get what they need.

01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:05.580
And I think that is priceless in a time when you can't really trust corporate-led

01:35:05.580 --> 01:35:07.960
media outlets. And it's sad.

01:35:09.033 --> 01:35:13.073
Yeah. I'm a little jealous. I've been trying to get April Ryan and you got her. That's cool.

01:35:14.033 --> 01:35:17.693
We'll talk later about that. One of my favorite Deltas, you know,

01:35:17.753 --> 01:35:18.993
that's the D9 connection.

01:35:19.653 --> 01:35:22.293
Yeah, yeah. But, you know, like you said, but that's cool, though,

01:35:22.373 --> 01:35:24.993
because I've had guests that have podcasts.

01:35:25.173 --> 01:35:28.093
They say, Erik, how did you get these people on there? I just asked them,

01:35:28.193 --> 01:35:33.833
you know. But you also have, and to your understated point, because I don't

01:35:33.833 --> 01:35:39.733
think you give enough credit to the fact that you have authentic, honest conversations.

01:35:40.433 --> 01:35:44.073
And that is something that becomes priceless.

01:35:44.413 --> 01:35:49.253
You're not giving me spin. You ain't got me up here spinning and being the clown

01:35:49.253 --> 01:35:51.913
that people can find in other spaces.

01:35:52.213 --> 01:35:56.173
So when that is something that, because I'm going to tell people,

01:35:56.413 --> 01:35:58.133
like, yeah, check out his show.

01:35:58.413 --> 01:36:00.533
It's not it's not a fashion show.

01:36:00.853 --> 01:36:04.573
You're really there for some good information and a good conversation to make

01:36:04.573 --> 01:36:08.293
you think. And I do have friends that like to do things like think.

01:36:08.653 --> 01:36:12.913
And I know that that is so underrated these days. Like, yes,

01:36:13.073 --> 01:36:14.673
we think we process information.

01:36:15.013 --> 01:36:19.273
Everything is not a, you know, shit show. Pardon my French.

01:36:20.033 --> 01:36:26.393
No, if t was French. I wouldn't understand it. So, yeah, I get what you're saying.

01:36:26.693 --> 01:36:30.573
Come on. People do not like processing information these days.

01:36:30.893 --> 01:36:36.473
And having spaces that we can go where there is a little complexity and texture

01:36:36.473 --> 01:36:38.873
to the conversation, that matters.

01:36:39.513 --> 01:36:44.933
Yeah, it does. And that's the kind of a deliberate thing I wanted to do.

01:36:45.493 --> 01:36:47.853
It was something I noticed that was missing.

01:36:49.076 --> 01:36:53.076
And so I wanted to do that. But we're going to we're going to we're going to close it out.

01:36:53.196 --> 01:36:58.176
I do want to ask you this one question, though, because I think it's relevant to our time.

01:37:00.456 --> 01:37:05.356
And you were drafted to run in a recall election.

01:37:06.396 --> 01:37:11.676
And the reason why I think it's relevant is because this particular council

01:37:11.676 --> 01:37:18.396
person, over 2400 people signed a petition to say, get him out.

01:37:18.396 --> 01:37:20.536
Or at least have the election, right?

01:37:21.116 --> 01:37:29.456
Then 900, almost 1,000 people said you, Tonya McKenzie, should be the person

01:37:29.456 --> 01:37:32.716
to replace them if we do recall them, right? Yep.

01:37:33.036 --> 01:37:40.596
So then I look at the results of the recall and less people voted for the actual

01:37:40.596 --> 01:37:44.996
recall than voted for you to be the person to replace them.

01:37:44.996 --> 01:37:52.536
And so the question out of all that is, and the other statistic was,

01:37:52.756 --> 01:37:57.556
if all of the people who signed the petition voted, he would have been recalled.

01:37:58.316 --> 01:38:04.736
So the question out of all those stats, and I don't know if it's a good memory, bad memory for you.

01:38:04.876 --> 01:38:13.116
I'm sorry if it's a bad one. But what can we do to get people to stay engaged

01:38:13.116 --> 01:38:17.016
and fully participate in the process?

01:38:18.616 --> 01:38:25.416
Wow. So one of the things I think that kept people from voting,

01:38:25.656 --> 01:38:30.996
which is something that many people are good at, like our current administration,

01:38:31.396 --> 01:38:41.856
is you congest the process and the information so much with bluster and BS that

01:38:41.856 --> 01:38:44.836
it discourages people from getting involved.

01:38:45.776 --> 01:38:48.876
So it it produces a lot of apathy

01:38:48.876 --> 01:38:53.616
like I don't even care no more like this too much this is too much and people

01:38:53.616 --> 01:38:58.456
really don't want to participate in the too much after a while it's like my

01:38:58.456 --> 01:39:05.996
head is hurting this is dumb and I don't want to do this anymore so I think looking back on that.

01:39:07.376 --> 01:39:13.096
Situation, and many others, is we have to not engage in the BS.

01:39:13.896 --> 01:39:18.796
And that's hard because you're playing the, you know, he's doubling down on

01:39:18.796 --> 01:39:21.216
me, so now I got to come back and answer all these things.

01:39:21.436 --> 01:39:25.756
I listened to some people too and responded to a lot of things I probably should not have.

01:39:27.120 --> 01:39:32.400
Because it congests, it makes noise, and noise deters people.

01:39:32.800 --> 01:39:36.320
You know, I think it does. I think noise deters people.

01:39:37.200 --> 01:39:40.000
So when things are going on like our current administration,

01:39:40.280 --> 01:39:44.680
which becomes a clown show and a big circus, it deters people from participating

01:39:44.680 --> 01:39:49.420
because they don't know which way is up. It's gotten messy, and they're just like, forget it.

01:39:50.460 --> 01:39:55.640
The simpler we keep things, the easier it is for people that actually care about

01:39:55.640 --> 01:39:58.640
the issue to then decide what they want to do.

01:39:59.540 --> 01:40:04.660
And what is that thing they teach us as kids? Like, if you see two fools arguing,

01:40:05.100 --> 01:40:07.200
sometimes you don't know which one is the fool.

01:40:10.440 --> 01:40:14.160
So disengaging in tomfoolery, I would say.

01:40:14.340 --> 01:40:19.160
That would probably be my only, the only thing I could suggest.

01:40:19.520 --> 01:40:23.100
Because, you know, we have a lot of money in politics.

01:40:23.740 --> 01:40:27.960
And when you have a lot of money to throw at things, you can make ugly things look pretty.

01:40:28.620 --> 01:40:32.980
So, you know, that's a hard one. And yes, I wouldn't say it was traumatic.

01:40:32.980 --> 01:40:36.200
I wound up being the first Black person on a Redondo Beach ballot.

01:40:36.320 --> 01:40:39.520
That's never happened before. Okay. I love being first.

01:40:39.980 --> 01:40:45.220
It wasn't a win, but it was a first. So, yeah, I guess in that sector, it was a win.

01:40:45.360 --> 01:40:48.220
But this guy had so much money.

01:40:49.020 --> 01:40:53.220
It's insane. He comes from one of the richest families in California.

01:40:53.880 --> 01:40:58.100
I actually used to sell the products that his father produced.

01:40:58.660 --> 01:41:04.540
So that was crazy to me. I was like, this is wild. But he had a lot of money to throw at it.

01:41:04.660 --> 01:41:08.760
And in politics, sometimes I think if there's a way to get money out of politics,

01:41:08.900 --> 01:41:12.640
which I'm sure it's probably not at this point, that would be great.

01:41:13.660 --> 01:41:19.200
But for the most part, it's really trying to be as clean as possible.

01:41:19.760 --> 01:41:22.900
Keeping things as simple for people to understand.

01:41:23.400 --> 01:41:26.440
Because remember, what I just said is people don't like to think.

01:41:26.700 --> 01:41:28.280
You want to make it easy for them.

01:41:28.700 --> 01:41:31.940
People do not like processing a lot of information these days.

01:41:32.080 --> 01:41:39.720
So you want to make things as simple as possible, give people instructions, A plus B equals C.

01:41:40.140 --> 01:41:42.780
It doesn't matter what the other side is doing.

01:41:43.280 --> 01:41:49.080
If you're trying to get people to, you know, go your way, I just think when

01:41:49.080 --> 01:41:52.780
it comes to elections, we need to keep it as clean and straightforward as possible.

01:41:52.920 --> 01:41:57.660
When you start engaging in some back and forth and the minutia of all the politics,

01:41:57.660 --> 01:42:00.920
it gets complicated for people and they just get caught up in apathy.

01:42:02.796 --> 01:42:06.696
Yeah, I definitely can attest to that. Well, look, Tonya McKenzie,

01:42:06.876 --> 01:42:08.476
it's been an honor to have you on.

01:42:08.756 --> 01:42:11.236
Tell people how they can get in touch with you.

01:42:11.696 --> 01:42:15.976
If they want to get a copy of the book, A Child's Memories of Cartoons and Murder.

01:42:17.616 --> 01:42:22.696
Find out more about the Commission on Alcohol and Other Drugs, just give your spiel.

01:42:22.856 --> 01:42:26.176
Just tell the folks how they can reach out to you. I try to keep it real simple.

01:42:26.176 --> 01:42:32.076
I am Tanya McKenzie PR on all social media platforms, or Sand and Shores,

01:42:32.276 --> 01:42:37.296
S-A-N-D-A-N-D-S-H-O-R-E-S on all social media platforms.

01:42:37.576 --> 01:42:39.716
And it's sandandshores.com if you want to check it out.

01:42:40.136 --> 01:42:44.096
I'll do this. I'll do you even one better. If you are a listener of Erik's and

01:42:44.096 --> 01:42:47.976
you want a copy of the book, let him know, and I'll just send it to you.

01:42:48.416 --> 01:42:50.556
I'll send it to you signed and everything.

01:42:51.076 --> 01:42:55.116
So I really appreciate Erik's time. Mr.

01:42:55.256 --> 01:43:00.776
Fleming, you are a joy because you're smart. I like smart people.

01:43:01.136 --> 01:43:05.756
I know that sounds crazy, but we just don't be getting running across a lot

01:43:05.756 --> 01:43:09.616
of smart people these days. So I will take it where I can get it.

01:43:09.676 --> 01:43:14.836
And I absolutely appreciate it. And I just encourage people to be intuitive,

01:43:15.296 --> 01:43:21.836
ask questions, get involved, be a part of the solution and enjoy the life that we're blessed to it.

01:43:22.536 --> 01:43:26.536
Well, thank you for that. And thank you for not only the kind words,

01:43:26.696 --> 01:43:29.756
but the instruction for our folks.

01:43:30.436 --> 01:43:36.676
Tonya McKenzie, it has been an honor to have you on. Thank you again for coming on.

01:43:37.296 --> 01:43:40.396
Thank you. All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:43:43.600 --> 01:43:54.160
Music.

01:43:54.766 --> 01:44:00.306
I want to thank Edward L. Jones III and Tonya McKenzie for coming on the podcast.

01:44:01.206 --> 01:44:06.986
Please, please, please get Edward's book, Medication, Mental Illness,

01:44:07.186 --> 01:44:10.466
and Murder, What Really Killed the Crespi Twins.

01:44:11.046 --> 01:44:18.466
You can get that anywhere. You can buy books. And it's a deep dive into,

01:44:18.926 --> 01:44:24.426
as you've heard in the interview, about where we are in this country, about mental health,

01:44:24.566 --> 01:44:34.226
where we are about criminal justice, and where we are about even big pharma,

01:44:34.566 --> 01:44:36.826
the pharmaceutical companies.

01:44:37.686 --> 01:44:43.486
And you can see how those challenges all tie in, especially now with this current

01:44:43.486 --> 01:44:48.846
administration and we don't know, I don't think they even know,

01:44:48.946 --> 01:44:50.666
but we don't know what direction they're going to go.

01:44:50.866 --> 01:44:58.066
So get this book and it's going to be very, very helpful in providing some information

01:44:58.066 --> 01:45:03.826
and maybe if you're going through something, you know, like depression.

01:45:05.386 --> 01:45:14.306
It'll give you some questions to ask your psychiatrist or your doctor and how

01:45:14.306 --> 01:45:19.946
to manage that if you have to take medication to do that. I think that's vitally important.

01:45:20.946 --> 01:45:25.826
And then, of course, Commissioner McKenzie, Tonya McKenzie, as I stated,

01:45:26.126 --> 01:45:28.166
I've been trying to get the sister on.

01:45:28.406 --> 01:45:31.206
We finally got it going, and it was worth the wait.

01:45:31.706 --> 01:45:36.226
She's an incredible sister. And, you know,

01:45:36.446 --> 01:45:43.506
when you're outnumbered like she is in Redondo Beach,

01:45:43.726 --> 01:45:51.846
you have to have hope and you have to use that hope as a weapon to navigate and do good.

01:45:52.066 --> 01:45:58.646
And she is the epitome of that. She is not overwhelmed. She is not intimidated.

01:45:58.846 --> 01:46:01.546
She's doing what needs to be done.

01:46:02.426 --> 01:46:09.266
And she's got a great support system not just in her house but in the community and so.

01:46:10.970 --> 01:46:18.770
You know, she, again, she is an example of why this podcast exists to highlight

01:46:18.770 --> 01:46:20.610
people like her that are doing the work.

01:46:20.790 --> 01:46:24.130
So just glad that we were able to be on.

01:46:24.310 --> 01:46:29.070
So I'm not going to keep you all along because those were some pretty intense interviews.

01:46:29.730 --> 01:46:35.610
And I thank you all for supporting the podcast with the style that I do,

01:46:35.670 --> 01:46:38.190
because I really want to get the most out of the guests.

01:46:38.190 --> 01:46:42.850
Even though I tell guests, you know, you have an open invitation to come,

01:46:43.070 --> 01:46:47.270
you may not get a chance to hear from these people ever again,

01:46:47.430 --> 01:46:48.410
or at least not on my show.

01:46:48.770 --> 01:46:57.110
And you may not get the length of time to really hear what they're really thinking.

01:46:57.530 --> 01:47:02.810
Right. Because some people have hard cutoffs and, you know, if they're on mainstream

01:47:02.810 --> 01:47:07.370
media, if they get 10 minutes, then they're the star of the show. Right.

01:47:08.310 --> 01:47:14.470
So, you know, that's why we want to get as in-depth as we can and tell as much

01:47:14.470 --> 01:47:16.390
as the story we can and all that.

01:47:16.550 --> 01:47:24.210
And like I told Brother Jones, we could have done probably two or three episodes just based off his book.

01:47:24.290 --> 01:47:32.890
It is that intense and it's that deep. So I appreciate y'all for supporting that part.

01:47:34.170 --> 01:47:39.870
But I do want to say that there was one quote that was mentioned in my interview

01:47:39.870 --> 01:47:44.110
with Ed that is very, very apropos for where we are now.

01:47:44.250 --> 01:47:50.190
And it was Winston Churchill's quote that if you find yourself going through hell, keep going.

01:47:50.570 --> 01:47:55.790
So my encouragement to every American within the sound of my voice.

01:47:56.830 --> 01:48:01.890
Keep going because we are in hell right now.

01:48:02.630 --> 01:48:07.290
It may not feel as hot as you thought it might feel, but we're in it.

01:48:08.570 --> 01:48:13.470
And there is no sign of it relenting. There are glimmers of hope.

01:48:13.590 --> 01:48:15.770
We had that victory in Wisconsin.

01:48:17.090 --> 01:48:24.470
We had the, but how many elections are we going to have where you have a classic

01:48:24.470 --> 01:48:26.630
supervillain running a candidate, right?

01:48:28.110 --> 01:48:35.550
You know, we didn't flip any seats in Florida, but they were competitive in

01:48:35.550 --> 01:48:41.450
districts where the Republicans were winning by 30 some points. Right.

01:48:42.210 --> 01:48:45.490
So it's it's brewing. It's coming.

01:48:45.830 --> 01:48:51.210
But we're still in hell and we still have we still haven't even finished the

01:48:51.210 --> 01:48:53.090
first hundred days. Right.

01:48:53.650 --> 01:48:59.510
And now we're going to have to dig deep in our wallets to pay for stuff that

01:48:59.510 --> 01:49:03.150
matter if it's a house, a car, groceries,

01:49:04.370 --> 01:49:09.890
blue jeans, computers, cell phone, whatever you need to buy from this point forward.

01:49:11.222 --> 01:49:13.382
Going to have to dig deeper in our wallets to make it happen.

01:49:13.662 --> 01:49:20.822
If you have retirement accounts, you need to pay attention to how's that looking, right?

01:49:21.142 --> 01:49:25.762
If you invest in the stock market, you need to pay attention to how that's looking.

01:49:25.902 --> 01:49:31.542
If you're a Forex trader, watch how that dollar is moving compared to other

01:49:31.542 --> 01:49:33.702
currencies around the world, right? Right.

01:49:35.222 --> 01:49:38.922
We're we're in. We're in it. We're in some tough times.

01:49:39.582 --> 01:49:44.502
And it's based on petulance. It's based on stubbornness. It's based on narcissism.

01:49:44.682 --> 01:49:46.182
It's based on authoritarianism.

01:49:46.722 --> 01:49:52.322
But we're in it. So all I want y'all to do is continue to be engaged,

01:49:52.542 --> 01:49:55.962
listen to podcasts like A Moment with Erik Fleming and others.

01:49:58.102 --> 01:50:05.302
Do enough of a deep dive in, you know, whatever reliable source of information

01:50:05.302 --> 01:50:07.442
you can get good information from.

01:50:07.662 --> 01:50:14.342
You can watch, you know, local news, network news, cable news.

01:50:14.842 --> 01:50:16.062
Nobody's telling you not to do

01:50:16.062 --> 01:50:20.222
that, but don't just let that be your only source of information, right?

01:50:21.402 --> 01:50:24.302
Just like the preacher used to tell us on Sunday. It's like,

01:50:24.402 --> 01:50:28.622
don't go just off my sermons, read the book, right?

01:50:30.022 --> 01:50:36.322
So, you know, do your due diligence on that because every year,

01:50:36.522 --> 01:50:40.642
no matter where you live in the United States, there's an election happening.

01:50:41.282 --> 01:50:46.902
It may be more on the local side. You know, it's not going to be a presidential election every year.

01:50:47.122 --> 01:50:52.062
That's every four years. But, you know, your congressional folks and some of

01:50:52.062 --> 01:50:56.442
your state legislators, it all depends on what state you live in, show up every two years.

01:50:57.002 --> 01:51:01.022
You got judges to vote for. You got city council people. You got mayors.

01:51:01.402 --> 01:51:05.182
You got a whole bunch of stuff. You got county surveyors to vote for.

01:51:06.200 --> 01:51:11.240
So pay attention to that stuff. You don't have to be encyclopedic.

01:51:11.340 --> 01:51:13.280
You don't have to be a nerd or a junkie.

01:51:13.580 --> 01:51:17.780
Just get enough information so you can make an informed decision.

01:51:19.100 --> 01:51:25.440
Because we can't vote to be entertained anymore. We got to vote to be sustained, right?

01:51:25.660 --> 01:51:32.180
We got to vote so we can thrive and we can live in an America that not only

01:51:32.180 --> 01:51:35.660
we can be proud of, but we can be comfortable in, right?

01:51:36.200 --> 01:51:39.680
So that's the message.

01:51:40.680 --> 01:51:45.020
As Churchill said, if you find yourself in hell, keep going.

01:51:45.220 --> 01:51:48.160
So just let's keep going. Let's keep moving.

01:51:49.960 --> 01:51:53.020
You know, we're in a moment.

01:51:53.560 --> 01:52:01.060
So, you know, usually when people are challenged, they rise to that challenge.

01:52:01.060 --> 01:52:06.940
And a lot of the motivation for them rising to the challenge is the hope that's on the other side.

01:52:07.960 --> 01:52:14.100
So I want y'all to heed the message that we can overcome these challenges and

01:52:14.100 --> 01:52:18.860
I want you to use hope as a weapon to overcome those challenges.

01:52:19.460 --> 01:52:27.200
It's not easy every day. Lord knows I have my moments but I know there's light

01:52:27.200 --> 01:52:28.220
at the other end of the tunnel.

01:52:28.920 --> 01:52:36.000
I know that You know, even in the darkest of night, you can still see stars, right?

01:52:38.500 --> 01:52:42.200
What did the psalmist say that, you know, weeping may endure for a night,

01:52:42.380 --> 01:52:43.600
but joy comes in the morning?

01:52:44.460 --> 01:52:49.440
That's not just to be applied at funeral services. That's supposed to be applied in our everyday life.

01:52:50.900 --> 01:52:55.860
If we're given a chance to live another day, make the most of it.

01:52:55.860 --> 01:53:01.740
And that's what I try to do, my guests, and I hope all of you all listening.

01:53:02.260 --> 01:53:08.980
That's what we have to do to get through this moment in our history in the United States.

01:53:10.240 --> 01:53:18.240
You know, people around the world are making their judgments and they have the right to do that.

01:53:18.580 --> 01:53:24.760
But we in America have a different goal or obligation. We have a right to make a difference.

01:53:26.340 --> 01:53:29.500
And if not now, when, right?

01:53:30.900 --> 01:53:34.920
So as Reverend Jackson would say, keep hope alive.

01:53:35.840 --> 01:53:40.280
Keep it forefront in your journey. Keep it in your vision.

01:53:40.920 --> 01:53:46.020
And most importantly, just keep pressing forward. Keep going.

01:53:46.840 --> 01:53:49.180
Thank you all for listening. Until next time.

01:53:53.040 --> 01:54:37.468
Music.