History & Humanity Featuring Dr. Karlos K. Hill and Justin Carter

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And so, as this episode drops, I'm hoping that everybody had a good Juneteenth, that you enjoyed the,

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festivities, hope that you found some festivities wherever you live,

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and that you were able to learn some things or just enjoy the culture.

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But if you didn't get enough of that. One of my guests is Dr.

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Karlos K. Hill, and he is becoming a regular on the podcast.

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And Dr. Hill is going to talk about the significance of Juneteenth,

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why it's important, especially in these times that we're in.

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And then my other guest is a young brother named Justin Carter.

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Justin is the program manager for this organization called Futures Without violence.

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And he's an up-and-coming activist in his own right.

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He's about to drop a book, so we're going to talk a little bit about that,

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as well as some other issues that are going on.

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He's another millennial that I have the honor and privilege to highlight and

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lift up for the listeners.

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And another voice that I believe you'll be hearing a lot from down the road.

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So I'm really glad that I was able to get them on.

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So, speaking about guests, I mentioned that there's going to be some changes, right, last episode.

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So, one of the changes is already that starting last episode,

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the commentary part of the podcast is going to be on YouTube.

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So, last week's commentary is the first one that's on there.

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So, you know, some people will get to see me do the thing because what I'm going

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to do is like when I record my commentary, I'm going to record that on video

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and just put that out there.

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So hopefully, you know, that'll get some more people to pay attention to the

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podcast and join you all in listening to it.

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And the other change, you might notice it because it all depends on how things

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go, But as most of you all who have been listening know, this is not my profession.

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This is not my regular job.

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And at my regular job, my position has changed.

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So that changes the time that I have to interview people. So I've got to reschedule a lot of folks.

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So hopefully, you know, we can kind of keep everything flowing, you know.

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And, you know, right now, the guests that I have lined up within the next two

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or three weeks, barring that they can't make it, we should be good to go.

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But after that, we'll get some, we have to make some changes.

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So I'm going to be doing that over the next week to get that set up.

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So a lot of the people that I want to be on can still come on and we'll go from there.

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If you want to be a guest or if you want to donate, a one-time donation,

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or if you want to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that at www.momenterik.com.

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If you do that, I will greatly appreciate that.

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And maybe I'll get enough because I was, you know, I was trying to push for it.

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My goal is if I can get 20,000, and you've heard me say that,

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and, you know, if I can get 20,000 subscribers, then I won't have to worry about my other job.

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I could do this full time. And I know that's a lofty goal, but,

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you know, you've got to set a goal in order to reach it.

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So that's where I've, that's been my target.

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So, you know, the more people that subscribe, you know, the better,

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but I just really appreciate y'all tuning in and listening.

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And again, if you want to learn more about me and how this podcast came about

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and all that, then go to www.momenterik.com.

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All right, enough about that. Let's go ahead and get this program started.

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And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Erik, 12 people died when a private single-engine turbo prop plane crashed shortly

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after takeoff near Butler Memorial Airport in Missouri.

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A U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber crashed on takeoff during a test mission at Edwards

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Air Force Base in California, killing all eight people on board.

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Georgia House Republican leaders postponed redrawing the state's legislative

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maps during a special session called by Governor Brian Kemp.

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The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear a former high school student's First

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Amendment challenge against an Indiana school district's policy that prohibited

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her from displaying anti-abortion flyers on school walls.

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The Trump administration is intervening in a lawsuit to challenge Evanston,

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Illinois' first-in-the-nation housing reparations program for Black residents.

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Georgia Republicans selected U.S. Representative Mike Collins to face incumbent

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Democratic Senator John Ossoff in the general election.

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Rick Jackson won the Republican primary runoff for Georgia governor and will

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advance to the general election against Democrat Keisha Lance Bottoms.

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Janice Lewis-George won the Democratic mayoral nomination in Washington,

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D.C., and Robert White secured a decisive victory to win the Democratic nomination

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for D.C.'s delegate to Congress.

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Everett Wess won the Alabama Democratic runoff for the U.S. Senate and will

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face Republican Barry Moore for the open seat.

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N'kiyla Jasmine Thomas and Jim Priest have advanced to a Democratic runoff election

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in Oklahoma, with the winner set to face Republican Kevin Hearn for the U.S. Senate seat.

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The U.S. Supreme Court rejected a gun industry challenge to a New York law that

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allows lawsuits against firearm manufacturers, wholesalers, and dealers for

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endangering public safety.

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And former President Barack Obama hosted thousands of attendees at the grand

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opening of the $850 million multi-use Obama Presidential Center campus in Chicago.

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I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.

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And thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for my guest, Dr. Karlos K.

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Hill. Karlos K. Hill is a writer, speaker, and community-engaged scholar who

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brings deeper perspective to historical racism.

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Dr. Hill works with students, leaders, and communities to understand our collective

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past and heal in relation to our most traumatic histories.

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Dr. Hill is Regents Professor of the Clara Luper Department of African and

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African American Studies, the University of Oklahoma.

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Dr. Hill is the author of three books, Beyond the Rope, The Impact of Lynching

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on Black Culture and Memory, The Murder of Emmett Till, A Graphic History,

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and The 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre, A Photographic History.

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Dr. Hill founded the Tulsa Race Massacre Oklahoma Teachers Institute to support

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teaching the history of the race massacre to thousands of middle school and high school students.

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He also serves on the boards of the Freedom Center Planning Committee,

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the Clara Luper Legacy Committee.

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And the Board of Scholars for Facing History and Ourselves, and is actively

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engaged on other community initiatives working toward racial justice.

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And it is always a pleasure and an honor to talk to this brother and for him to be on this podcast.

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So without further ado, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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again on this podcast, Dr. Karlos K. Hill.

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Dr. Karlos K. Hill. How you doing, brother? You doing good?

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You know, I'm always in good spirits when I when I'm able to be on your show

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and to share whatever knowledge I have with with you and your audience.

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So I'm in good spirits on on on a on the cusp of Juneteenth remembrance. So thank you for asking.

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Yes, sir. Well, happy Juneteenth to you. By the time this will air,

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the holiday would have passed. But I couldn't I couldn't have this holiday go

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without getting some some knowledge from you about the holiday and all that.

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So, you know, I start off with a quote that I want you to respond to. So this is the quote.

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None of us are free until we're all free.

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That's music to my ears. That is Ubuntu in action.

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That is Ubuntu made concrete. Ubuntu, for those,

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in your audience who may be unfamiliar, is a Zulu sort of phrase that means I am because we are.

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I am because we are.

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It is profound African wisdom, but it's also a theory of humanity.

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And as a theory of humanity, what Ubuntu really is about is my humanity,

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my freedom is bound up in your freedom.

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My unfreedom is bound up in your unfreedom. Right.

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Our lives, as distinct and different as they may be, are interconnected.

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And so when you when you have that kind of understanding of the world,

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right, those kinds of statements make a lot of sense to the extent that you

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don't have that view of the world.

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Those statements strike one as kind of cute or kind of sort of aspirational.

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Right. But it in no way tells us who we really are in relationship to each other.

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Right? That's something that maybe idealistic people believe,

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or that's optimistic people believe that.

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That's not really how it is.

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Ubuntu says, not only is that the way we should understand our humanity,

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Ubuntu tells us that our humanity, or excuse me.

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Our humanity, right, is rooted in each other, right? There is no other,

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right? We are human beings because we've come to treat each other with humanity.

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That is what it means to be human, to treat others with humanity.

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That is profound. That's not just wisdom.

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That is profound reordering of of how we relate to each other as human beings

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and so you can only have you can that quote only makes sense to me,

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right through the lens of ubuntu right and so that is a powerful word brother fleming,

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yeah that was you know a lot of us have said that but the the credit for this one goes to Opal Lee,

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which I think is appropriate because she's considered the grandmother of the

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holiday we're going to discuss.

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So, Dr. Karlos K. Hill, what is Juneteenth and why is it important to celebrate?

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Man, that's why I'm in a good mood today because when I think about Juneteenth,

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It is Freedom Day. It is Jubilee Day.

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It is the day in which slavery or Black people who were enslaved in Texas finally came.

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But it also is a moment where slavery in this country, in terms of lived reality, came to an end. June.

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19th, 1865.

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That is Freedom Day. That is the day of Jubilee for some of the last enslaved

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people in the United States to gain freedom truly.

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For the shackles of slavery to be removed and for them to move into a new phase,

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the phase of being free people.

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That is what Juneteenth represents.

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It is the hopes and dreams of millions of enslaved people coming true,

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that one day they would be free.

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For 246 years before that, slavery was a nightmare, right?

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Slavery, according to the United Nations, their most recent,

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their most sort of recent.

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Sort of discussion of the impact of the slave trade and slavery,

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talked about slavery as the bravest crime against humanity in world history.

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It is the darkest hour, not just in our country, but in world history.

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And on June 19, 1865, that horror came to an end.

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That nightmare came to an end.

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And so because of that, it is a jubilee. It is freedom day, freedom that many

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thought would never come about.

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Because for 246 years preceding that, freedom had been denied.

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And it took a four-year civil war, the bloodiest war still in American history,

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to break the chapels of slavery.

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And so Juneteenth is a moment where we remember, where enslaved people,

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in fact, remembered that 246 years that preceded it.

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The suffering that preceded it, the contributions that they had made to the

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United States society that has never been acknowledged.

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Juneteenth became that moment of freedom, but also a reflection on how we as

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a people have gotten here in the first place.

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And so Juneteenth for all those reasons is sacred.

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It's a sacred observance.

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And, you know, for me, it's not just an important, it is not just an important

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moment to remember, right? It's very personal to me, you know.

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I am someone who is a descendant of enslaved people.

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Juneteenth has given me the opportunity to bear witness to their sufferings,

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to their sacrifices, to their contributions.

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My enslaved ancestors.

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Speaking of Ubuntu, I am because we are. I am not here if it were not for the

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resilience and endurance of my enslaved ancestors. I am not here.

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I am only because they were.

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And so Juneteenth, as a grassroots holiday that existed for 157 years before

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it became a federal holiday,

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has done that work for us, has grounded us in the memory of our ancestors as

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descendants of enslaved people.

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And so Juneteenth for me is a profound reckoning with my own enslaved past.

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And it is a moment where I can deep, not just remember, but have deep gratitude.

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Or what my enslaved ancestors, Annie Pilate, went through.

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And her great, great, or excuse me, and her mother, Myra Kamel,

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who were enslaved people in the Alabama Black Belt during the 1830s, 40s, and 50s.

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And so for me, it is a moment to honor and to have deep gratitude enslaved to

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my enslaved ancestors and,

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what they gave to me as an inheritance so that I could live in these United

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States, not just live, but live with deep pride for where I come from.

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That is what Juneteenth for me really is about, is a sacred moment for me to

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pay my respects, to have I have to pay gratitude to ancestors who never experienced freedom,

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but paved the way for me, too, because of their sacrifices.

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For me, at the deepest level, Juneteenth is about bearing witness to that.

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Yeah. So how do you respond to people who say that this holiday is unnecessary?

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I am irritated with people who are ignorant and or indifferent to Juneteenth as a sacred observance.

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I would try to begin a conversation with someone who's opposed to Juneteenth

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as an observance, a national observance, by saying to them very clearly, you know,

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slavery is the most important institution in our nation's history.

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When you discount Juneteenth, you discount that.

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Slavery was so important to our history that slavery is older than even the

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American Constitutional Republic.

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Slavery existed for 246 years, chattel slavery, by law and practiced.

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1619, when the first enslaved people arrived to the shores of Virginia.

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June 19, 1865, when the last enslaved people are freed in Galveston.

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Blavery defined American life, so much so that on the eve of the Civil War,

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enslaved people accounted for 50% of the nation's wealth.

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If you are indifferent to Juneteenth, you're indifferent to the nation's history,

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and the importance of slavery to it.

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Our nation is only 237 years old if we consider the founding 1789 when we ratify,

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1788, 1789 when we ratify the Constitution.

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And so if we take that as our founding date, that's 237 years of history as

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a nation versus 246 as a nation,

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in which slavery was its founding institution, most important institution.

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So to deny Juneteenth is to deny our very history, to be ignorant of our very history.

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And so it is, if we don't want to truly understand our history,

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we can be indifferent to Juneteenth.

00:22:35.398 --> 00:22:40.099
But if we truly want to have an authentic understanding of our history,

00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:42.328
Juneteenth is important to our nation.

00:22:42.955 --> 00:22:49.371
Right because it is the one moment in our in our in our in our sort of national,

00:22:50.031 --> 00:22:52.856
remembrance sort of it's.

00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:01.260
It's the one moment in our nation particularly since june of 2021 when it became

00:23:01.260 --> 00:23:06.550
a national observant is the one moment where we talk about think about reflect

00:23:06.550 --> 00:23:09.060
on the history of slavery right,

00:23:10.307 --> 00:23:16.288
Juneteenth plays a really important role in educating us and hopefully creating,

00:23:17.597 --> 00:23:20.917
compassion around the history of slavery and the enslaved.

00:23:21.985 --> 00:23:28.568
It's really, really important because there are very few national,

00:23:28.568 --> 00:23:32.017
and in fact, I would say there is no national memorial,

00:23:32.888 --> 00:23:37.618
to the history of slavery or the enslaved that has been created by our government.

00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:44.988
But we're 157 years later, and there's still no memorial to enslaved people,

00:23:44.988 --> 00:23:49.248
national memorial created by the United States government honoring enslaved people.

00:23:49.248 --> 00:23:58.558
So 157 years later, Juneteenth, as a grassroots observance amongst enslaved

00:23:58.558 --> 00:24:02.600
people initially, but ultimately the descendants of those enslaved people.

00:24:04.208 --> 00:24:11.157
Have tried to, at a grassroots level, remember the significance and importance

00:24:11.378 --> 00:24:12.881
of enslavement to this country.

00:24:13.444 --> 00:24:21.788
Honor the sacrifices and the sufferings of enslaved people all with an eye toward how, you know,

00:24:22.328 --> 00:24:28.078
the understanding and being grounded in the history of slavery could help us

00:24:28.078 --> 00:24:32.228
fight the current day struggles or the struggles of the day.

00:24:33.220 --> 00:24:38.689
And so Juneteenth has had to do all that work all by itself,

00:24:39.693 --> 00:24:43.576
because of the boy created by a national government,

00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:52.208
and a society that has been unwilling to be honest about the true significance

00:24:52.208 --> 00:24:58.353
of slavery and certainly the nightmare that slavery was for enslaved people.

00:24:59.340 --> 00:25:03.113
All of that Juneteenth has bore the weight of that,

00:25:04.149 --> 00:25:14.144
for 157 years and only since 2021 have we as a nation began to inch closer to acknowledging that.

00:25:14.954 --> 00:25:20.224
I think until we actually have a national memorial monument created by the United

00:25:20.224 --> 00:25:26.424
States government, we will continue to have these kinds of conversations about,

00:25:26.424 --> 00:25:29.426
well, some people don't believe that it's important.

00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:36.717
A true national monument or memorial to enslaved people that centered them in

00:25:36.717 --> 00:25:42.860
their experience would, I think, go a long way of addressing that.

00:25:44.152 --> 00:25:49.057
Because of the dialogues, because of the honest conversations that would be

00:25:49.057 --> 00:25:52.122
necessary for that memorial to be created.

00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.921
That is where the change and transformation i think would at least begin,

00:25:58.689 --> 00:26:03.217
and hopefully from there honest conversations about how the history of slavery

00:26:03.217 --> 00:26:07.987
show up today like if we can get to the place of saying it's significant it's

00:26:07.987 --> 00:26:10.682
matter to our nation's history,

00:26:11.454 --> 00:26:15.825
the next step is to talk about how that history shows up today since we have

00:26:16.063 --> 00:26:20.521
given it its significance and import right It's a one-two punch.

00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:30.852
But because we have ultimately refused as a nation to deal with the enormity of enslavement,

00:26:31.554 --> 00:26:37.557
the horrors, the nightmare that it was for enslaved people, and how that intergenerational

00:26:37.557 --> 00:26:41.411
trauma shows up today in the form of legacies,

00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.045
we have commentary like what you mentioned.

00:26:45.585 --> 00:26:48.586
It is a symptom of our relationship.

00:26:49.375 --> 00:26:55.007
It's not an aberration. And so for me as a historian of lynching and racial

00:26:55.007 --> 00:27:00.242
violence inclusive of slavery, because of those kinds of understandings,

00:27:00.875 --> 00:27:04.596
it is a matter to me to position people.

00:27:05.867 --> 00:27:08.032
To not just know, but to know to care.

00:27:10.755 --> 00:27:16.804
That is the thing that a national memorial, I think, would help to cure,

00:27:16.804 --> 00:27:23.710
go a long way to cure that ignorance and indifference. So that is truly my call to action.

00:27:26.246 --> 00:27:31.944
For this year's Juneteenth is that, yes, as a nation, we have ultimately,

00:27:31.944 --> 00:27:37.961
after 150 plus years, decided to elevate it to a national observance.

00:27:38.866 --> 00:27:44.532
That's a big step for us as a country, but that's not the only step.

00:27:45.242 --> 00:27:53.104
That's one of many steps that we need to take to address and authentically account

00:27:53.104 --> 00:27:57.507
for the impact that slavery had on our society and continues to have on.

00:27:58.838 --> 00:28:02.824
Well, that sounds like a project. That sounds like something we need to have

00:28:02.824 --> 00:28:09.754
some further discussion about that about the memorial and then two it leads,

00:28:10.334 --> 00:28:12.923
it really was leading into my next question,

00:28:13.974 --> 00:28:18.959
so i'm going to rephrase the question the way i instead of what i originally wrote it,

00:28:19.639 --> 00:28:25.594
because you talked about the importance but in this climate right the trump

00:28:25.594 --> 00:28:30.324
administration just announced that it was challenging evanston illinois's reparation

00:28:30.324 --> 00:28:32.180
programs for black residents,

00:28:32.686 --> 00:28:38.380
and the department of defense is still removing photos and artifacts relating to black soldiers.

00:28:39.196 --> 00:28:48.349
So how can we stress the importance strategically in this climate?

00:28:49.418 --> 00:28:54.825
I mean, I think that, I mean, I'm certainly, Brother Fleming,

00:28:55.565 --> 00:29:01.541
I love your question because you've elevated me beyond the historian to a strategist.

00:29:03.612 --> 00:29:10.155
I am certainly not a strategist. And I think that's something that I'm slightly

00:29:10.155 --> 00:29:12.063
proud about in the sense that,

00:29:12.777 --> 00:29:17.648
it has given me a clear voice to speak the,

00:29:18.188 --> 00:29:23.245
truths of slavery without worrying about whether it's strategic or whether it's

00:29:23.245 --> 00:29:28.045
going to land well or whether it's going to ultimately help me achieve my aim.

00:29:28.788 --> 00:29:35.445
My aim, honestly, given the climate that we're in, is not to create change.

00:29:35.445 --> 00:29:39.780
I don't think change in this climate is truly possible, right?

00:29:40.297 --> 00:29:46.865
But we can, and this is where I come in as an educator, not a strategist, I can seed.

00:29:48.525 --> 00:29:55.855
I'm a seed sower. I am seeding the kind of knowledge and hopefully compassionate

00:29:55.855 --> 00:29:59.730
relationship to these histories in my classroom,

00:30:00.223 --> 00:30:03.805
in conversations with people like you, brilliant people like you,

00:30:04.368 --> 00:30:09.215
as well as audiences that I've had the opportunity to engage with.

00:30:09.564 --> 00:30:17.605
It's me seeding these ideas, and in seeding these ideas, creating room for the true strategists.

00:30:19.885 --> 00:30:25.465
The true strategists who know how to navigate and maneuver within the kind of

00:30:25.465 --> 00:30:31.843
political climate that we're in, that is truly hostile, not only hostile to me, right?

00:30:32.023 --> 00:30:41.102
There is hostility, but truly there is a memory rebellion underway in our country.

00:30:43.052 --> 00:30:48.572
A rebellion rooted in erasing not just the history of slavery,

00:30:48.572 --> 00:30:51.930
but all histories that would seemingly,

00:30:53.952 --> 00:30:56.110
present a picture of America.

00:30:59.932 --> 00:31:05.062
That is counter to a narrative that America is the greatest country in the world

00:31:05.062 --> 00:31:07.357
that has ever existed and ever will exist.

00:31:09.307 --> 00:31:16.517
Anything that undercuts, you know, this idea that America is great,

00:31:17.912 --> 00:31:24.445
and a country that is exceptional in world history is not allowed.

00:31:26.172 --> 00:31:30.852
If any of the audience has sort of followed the kind of narrative construction

00:31:30.852 --> 00:31:38.180
of America, you know, as it relates to the America 250 commemorations,

00:31:38.702 --> 00:31:40.972
America is a great country.

00:31:43.412 --> 00:31:50.259
That never institutionalized chattel slavery. That's not a line anywhere.

00:31:51.496 --> 00:31:54.671
Slavery is gone. We're not dealing with that.

00:31:55.118 --> 00:32:00.202
We're not going to deal with the era of lynching that came after enslavement.

00:32:00.202 --> 00:32:02.166
We're not going to talk about Jim Crow.

00:32:03.257 --> 00:32:12.417
Those are not just narrative choices because of space or because of, those are true choices.

00:32:12.768 --> 00:32:19.517
Because those, because eliminating those stories, eliminating those experiences,

00:32:19.999 --> 00:32:22.482
allows us today to say that we are good.

00:32:22.542 --> 00:32:28.182
To the extent that we highlight those experiences and talk about the legacies

00:32:28.182 --> 00:32:32.251
of that experience, now we got a conversation for today.

00:32:32.698 --> 00:32:36.768
America ain't looking as great as we say it is.

00:32:37.476 --> 00:32:40.140
And so that I think is a true.

00:32:43.105 --> 00:32:46.656
There's a true memory rebellion underfoot.

00:32:47.295 --> 00:32:52.311
As a educator, I have deepened my teaching in this climate.

00:32:52.932 --> 00:32:57.982
But I would be, you know.

00:33:01.442 --> 00:33:06.892
I think for me, strategizing about how to navigate and maneuver at this moment,

00:33:06.892 --> 00:33:09.287
exceedingly hard if you're trying to tell.

00:33:10.814 --> 00:33:15.081
If you're trying to tell what Ida B. Wells would say, the threadbare truth,

00:33:15.967 --> 00:33:20.170
if you're trying to tell that story, it's hard to negotiate it,

00:33:20.484 --> 00:33:23.990
navigate a climate that is erasing that actively.

00:33:24.689 --> 00:33:27.749
I think this is just truly, for me, a moment of truth telling.

00:33:28.138 --> 00:33:34.475
And that is something that is above and beyond sort of strategy,

00:33:34.475 --> 00:33:41.150
just trying to tell the truth and let the power of that truth sit in rooms, sit in hearts and minds,

00:33:41.865 --> 00:33:46.275
and let it see the activist work that I think, and I think what you're pointing

00:33:46.275 --> 00:33:52.495
to, the activist work that could bring it about, the activist work that could really change the tide.

00:33:53.208 --> 00:34:00.269
I'm really just trying to sow the seeds that hopefully will take root in people.

00:34:01.555 --> 00:34:07.135
And then make it easier for activists who are really doing the amazing work.

00:34:07.135 --> 00:34:14.505
And probably my greatest asset in this work is I'm deeply connected to the activist

00:34:14.505 --> 00:34:19.095
community, fighting for repair or historic racial violence.

00:34:19.095 --> 00:34:25.939
They have taught me strategy, but I would say that I'm still not a strategist.

00:34:26.926 --> 00:34:30.104
But that would be how I approach it in particular, dear brother.

00:34:30.580 --> 00:34:37.739
Well, you know, you're far smarter than me, but I would push back in the sense

00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:41.049
that sowing seeds is strategic, right?

00:34:41.049 --> 00:34:46.103
Because a farmer is not just going to throw the seeds anywhere.

00:34:46.602 --> 00:34:50.899
They're going to deliberately pick fertile ground in order to sow those seeds

00:34:50.899 --> 00:34:53.835
so they can be able to get the harvest down the road, right?

00:34:54.288 --> 00:35:00.199
So your photo ground is oklahoma university where you teach it right yes that's

00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:03.559
where you're sowing those seeds that's where you're planting the state of oklahoma

00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:07.767
i would even give you latitude for in sowing those seeds so it's like,

00:35:08.290 --> 00:35:12.389
don't sell yourself short brother you you you're part of the strategy you you just,

00:35:13.009 --> 00:35:14.849
you just a farmer we.

00:35:15.949 --> 00:35:19.923
We we trying to get people to buy the product once is harvesting. Yes.

00:35:20.080 --> 00:35:22.553
I guess. But yeah, don't say you're so sure.

00:35:23.469 --> 00:35:26.149
Well, well, thank you for giving me a promotion.

00:35:27.086 --> 00:35:30.529
I appreciate it. I'm looking for a higher wage now.

00:35:34.369 --> 00:35:40.223
Before Juneteenth, did you have a problem as a black historian celebrating the 4th of July?

00:35:42.610 --> 00:35:46.608
It really depends on what we're celebrating and what we're talking about in

00:35:46.608 --> 00:35:48.450
relationship to the 4th of July.

00:35:49.417 --> 00:35:56.998
The 4th of July is a moment where, you know, our nation, which wasn't a nation

00:35:56.998 --> 00:36:00.278
at that point, July 4th, 1776,

00:36:00.748 --> 00:36:05.778
it was a moment when American colonists declared their independence,

00:36:05.778 --> 00:36:07.697
declared their freedom from,

00:36:08.569 --> 00:36:11.611
Great Britain, the greatest power in the world at that time.

00:36:12.434 --> 00:36:19.070
That is what July 4, 1776 stands for, right?

00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:23.232
A declaration of independence, a declaration of freedom from.

00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:31.958
At that same time, there were enslaved Africans throughout the 13 colonies that

00:36:31.958 --> 00:36:33.680
would become the United States.

00:36:34.469 --> 00:36:40.098
13 years later, of 1789 when the United States becomes a formal constitutional

00:36:40.098 --> 00:36:44.876
republic, slavery is enshrined in the constitution.

00:36:46.931 --> 00:36:53.671
And it's enshrined in several ways. The three-fifths clause that basically describes

00:36:53.671 --> 00:36:56.344
enslaved people as three-fifths a person,

00:36:56.982 --> 00:37:03.271
as well as fugitive slave laws, clauses within the Constitution that made it

00:37:03.271 --> 00:37:09.195
easy to re-enslave people who have abandoned from slavery.

00:37:09.700 --> 00:37:16.021
And finally, clauses within the Constitution allowing for the importation of

00:37:16.021 --> 00:37:21.061
enslaved Africans into our country for 20 years after the founding.

00:37:21.061 --> 00:37:33.488
In those three ways, our nation between 1776, 1789 enshrined slavery in American life.

00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:38.091
So for me as a righteous black man to be celebrating the 4th of July,

00:37:38.091 --> 00:37:42.364
given that history, that is deeply problematic.

00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:49.397
July 4th, if I'm going to center slave people,

00:37:50.024 --> 00:37:56.288
if I'm going to center their experience, it has to take the tack of a more Frederick

00:37:56.288 --> 00:38:01.492
Douglassian understanding of July 4th.

00:38:02.288 --> 00:38:11.952
And Douglass famously in July of 1857 says to America, what is the 4th of July to the slave?

00:38:12.875 --> 00:38:17.100
What is the 4th of July to the slave? That is the energy,

00:38:17.767 --> 00:38:21.568
I think, that is required in remembering

00:38:21.568 --> 00:38:28.613
the 4th of July, not freedom as something that was gained by all,

00:38:29.490 --> 00:38:34.237
but a moment where some American, American colonists gained freedom.

00:38:34.916 --> 00:38:41.758
But at the same time, thousands and ultimately millions of Black people would

00:38:41.758 --> 00:38:46.627
be enslaved because of that moment and what came after that.

00:38:47.772 --> 00:38:53.641
We have to think about the 4th of July and our relationship to it.

00:38:54.506 --> 00:39:01.714
Not a kind of general abstract sort of celebration of something that didn't

00:39:01.714 --> 00:39:06.574
really bring freedom or at least, you know, freedom in the ways that we would

00:39:06.574 --> 00:39:09.427
understand it, right, to all Americans.

00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:17.614
And so I think the 4th of July and especially America 250, given how it is being

00:39:17.614 --> 00:39:24.819
framed, is a moment where we cannot just celebrate the 4th of July as this great moment.

00:39:25.547 --> 00:39:29.326
It's a moment where the conversation about freedom,

00:39:30.094 --> 00:39:37.124
for all of its citizens began, but certainly freedom was denied in those two

00:39:37.124 --> 00:39:41.071
critical moments, 1776, 1789,

00:39:41.710 --> 00:39:42.574
to enslave people.

00:39:42.574 --> 00:39:50.074
We need to center that and remember that in addition to the founding of the American Republic.

00:39:50.787 --> 00:39:56.654
And so for me, critical memory is required, like a Douglassonian understanding

00:39:56.654 --> 00:40:02.949
is required for understanding the 4th of July because it forces us to center,

00:40:03.413 --> 00:40:05.277
the experiences of enslaved people.

00:40:05.938 --> 00:40:15.414
And in 4th of July, memorations that I have been a part of and seen within the

00:40:15.414 --> 00:40:18.527
U.S., that is never reflected upon.

00:40:19.767 --> 00:40:25.610
So to paraphrase the Apostle Paul, when I was a child, I thought as a child, right?

00:40:26.347 --> 00:40:30.562
And so for me, when I was younger, the 4th of July was a big deal.

00:40:31.127 --> 00:40:35.708
And I've always acknowledged it and celebrated.

00:40:35.829 --> 00:40:42.927
As I became older and more conscious of history and the connections and all

00:40:42.927 --> 00:40:49.205
that stuff, you know, what you say, the Douglasonian mindset kicked in.

00:40:49.810 --> 00:40:55.917
But my my reconciliation was spiritual and it just real quick because i got

00:40:55.917 --> 00:40:57.936
one more question for you but,

00:40:58.616 --> 00:41:03.707
to me it was spiritual because you know in a black church we when we see something

00:41:03.707 --> 00:41:10.186
that you know that god had a hand in we say look at god right yes and and,

00:41:10.849 --> 00:41:16.346
you know my where i get from is that Thomas Jefferson, who was a slave holder.

00:41:17.467 --> 00:41:23.706
Wrote the words and put it on paper and said that all men are created equal.

00:41:24.565 --> 00:41:27.703
And that they all have certain inalienable rights.

00:41:28.389 --> 00:41:35.465
And I said, here is a slaveholder writing the words that gave us the tool to

00:41:35.465 --> 00:41:42.401
fight for that freedom and to hold the nation that we're supposed to be celebrating accountable.

00:41:42.953 --> 00:41:46.885
That's the creed that Dr. King talked about that we have to honor.

00:41:46.885 --> 00:41:52.925
And so for me, it's a moment not only of celebrating the independence from the

00:41:52.925 --> 00:41:58.775
British Empire, But it's a it's a it's a moment of accountability.

00:41:58.775 --> 00:42:04.715
It's a reminder that we have an obligation to make sure to go back to the original

00:42:04.715 --> 00:42:10.754
quote and understand that if if I ain't free, ain't nobody else free. Right.

00:42:11.311 --> 00:42:16.805
And so that's that's the way I've looked at it as an adult and as somebody that

00:42:16.805 --> 00:42:23.645
has been in the system as an elected official and all that to get get us to that point.

00:42:23.645 --> 00:42:28.605
And, you know, Frederick Douglass couldn't have come to that conclusion that

00:42:28.605 --> 00:42:31.582
I came to because slavery still existed.

00:42:32.364 --> 00:42:37.645
But for me, generations later to come forward and to, you know,

00:42:37.645 --> 00:42:41.147
to be an activist and all that, that's that's where I come from.

00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:45.905
But I definitely I wanted to pick your brain as a historian because I know you

00:42:45.905 --> 00:42:47.619
put deep thought in everything.

00:42:48.252 --> 00:42:52.192
And I just I just I just wanted to get your point.

00:42:53.305 --> 00:42:58.255
Last question. Besides the acknowledgement of holidays like Juneteenth and celebrations

00:42:58.255 --> 00:43:03.385
like Kwanzaa, what would you like to see Americans do to respect Black history and culture?

00:43:04.419 --> 00:43:05.299
Stop attacking it.

00:43:08.272 --> 00:43:14.553
Let's start with that, dear brother. Stop attacking it. Stop banning it. Stop polarizing it.

00:43:15.174 --> 00:43:22.629
Stop making it a history that Americans believe is unimportant.

00:43:22.629 --> 00:43:28.331
That would be an amazing start. Supporting Black Studies programs.

00:43:28.836 --> 00:43:32.930
Supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion.

00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:39.199
These are insufficient, but they are also very still, excuse me,

00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:44.339
very important in the current ecosystem of American corporations,

00:43:44.339 --> 00:43:45.693
American higher education.

00:43:45.995 --> 00:43:51.899
They really do create transformation in terms of what those institutions look

00:43:51.899 --> 00:43:57.029
like and what students, those institutions, how they serve those students.

00:43:57.603 --> 00:43:59.577
And having a Black Studies department,

00:44:00.088 --> 00:44:04.970
on a campus like the University of Oklahoma, very, very important.

00:44:05.562 --> 00:44:11.249
Talking about seesawing, right, a campus with 30,000 students that can,

00:44:11.249 --> 00:44:15.709
has the ability to take Black Studies courses and learn the history of slavery

00:44:15.709 --> 00:44:18.021
that they won't learn anywhere else.

00:44:18.433 --> 00:44:23.869
It's really, really important to making sure that people come to understand

00:44:23.869 --> 00:44:26.978
these histories in not just a deeper way, but in a way.

00:44:28.479 --> 00:44:32.169
That arose that deep indifference and that lack of compassion,

00:44:32.169 --> 00:44:36.551
not just for the enslaved, but how their descendants and how the history shows up today.

00:44:37.512 --> 00:44:46.079
I think this war on memory, this war on Black studies and the history of racialized

00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:52.092
groups in America, particularly people of color, right, that rebellion...

00:44:53.310 --> 00:44:56.080
Come to an end. We have to bring it. It's not going to come to an end.

00:44:56.080 --> 00:44:57.652
We got to bring it to an end.

00:44:58.540 --> 00:45:07.410
But that would go a long way to changing the kind of temperature that we have

00:45:07.410 --> 00:45:11.081
in relationship to these polarizing histories.

00:45:11.929 --> 00:45:19.959
Ultimately, dear brother, if I'm to get spiritual as well and at the deepest level as well,

00:45:20.609 --> 00:45:28.202
I think our country has to of a healing relationship with this path.

00:45:29.404 --> 00:45:35.230
And what I'm about to say, I think is somewhat controversial and maybe even

00:45:35.230 --> 00:45:39.944
simplistic, but I think given what I've said, it makes sense.

00:45:40.524 --> 00:45:45.970
And so I spent the last two weeks in Germany and I've done, I spent two weeks

00:45:45.970 --> 00:45:50.790
in Germany for the last five years as a part of a Berlin fellowship,

00:45:51.289 --> 00:45:56.440
that introduces American remembrance activists to the history of the Holocaust

00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:59.073
and National Socialism in Germany.

00:46:01.916 --> 00:46:08.197
The Berlin fellowship remembrance tours that we take visit sites connected to the Holocaust.

00:46:09.149 --> 00:46:15.912
And without going into detail about the Holocaust, it represents the murder

00:46:16.353 --> 00:46:19.430
of 6 million European Jews.

00:46:21.715 --> 00:46:25.860
Nazis and their national socialism.

00:46:27.051 --> 00:46:36.311
And so Germany as a state, as a national government, has memorialized and commemorated,

00:46:37.631 --> 00:46:41.886
that genocide, that attempted genocide, that holocaust, the Shoah.

00:46:42.571 --> 00:46:45.253
It has memorialized it.

00:46:46.025 --> 00:46:49.056
It wasn't an easy process, but it happened.

00:46:50.077 --> 00:46:59.320
That has helped to create tremendous healing amongst Germans who were responsible

00:46:59.650 --> 00:47:01.682
as well as their descendants.

00:47:02.268 --> 00:47:09.647
It created space to truly have conversations with Jewish people and their descendants,

00:47:10.233 --> 00:47:14.947
about what repair was needed because the country,

00:47:17.154 --> 00:47:23.381
had developed the ability to talk about the history honestly and to commemorate

00:47:23.381 --> 00:47:29.391
that history honestly. Honestly, it created the path for repair to the community that.

00:47:31.531 --> 00:47:35.153
Was most impacted by the harm.

00:47:36.463 --> 00:47:40.021
In our country, we have not come

00:47:40.021 --> 00:47:44.350
together as a nation to create a national manana, a national memorial.

00:47:45.177 --> 00:47:51.830
We have refused to do so, and in refusing to do so, we have precluded healing,

00:47:52.376 --> 00:47:54.692
from this most horrific history.

00:47:54.889 --> 00:48:00.731
United Nations, earlier this year, slavery and the slave trade,

00:48:00.731 --> 00:48:03.276
gravest crime against humanity.

00:48:04.451 --> 00:48:12.421
Gravest crime in human history, and we think we don't need to heal in relationship. to.

00:48:13.471 --> 00:48:22.015
Imagine the arrogance of not believing we don't have to heal in relationship to the most.

00:48:23.144 --> 00:48:28.584
The gravest crime against humanity in our history. The Germans did for their

00:48:28.584 --> 00:48:32.396
country, the Holocaust, and that's still a country.

00:48:33.193 --> 00:48:36.849
It's the fourth largest economy in the world. They're doing just fine.

00:48:37.812 --> 00:48:42.015
The largest economy in the world believes that it's too polarizing,

00:48:42.450 --> 00:48:44.418
that it would destroy our country somehow.

00:48:44.946 --> 00:48:49.416
The unity, the national unity, maybe the healing could bring us together.

00:48:50.295 --> 00:48:56.774
And so for me, the memorial isn't just something that needs to take place.

00:48:56.774 --> 00:49:01.107
It's a process that needs to take place.

00:49:01.420 --> 00:49:07.028
The dialogues, the discussions that were produced, the memorial is where the healing is.

00:49:07.951 --> 00:49:14.754
It's not after the fact it's during the fact and that work that we refuse to

00:49:14.754 --> 00:49:18.773
do is I think why we are stuck where we are,

00:49:19.455 --> 00:49:26.064
and why other countries and other societies that have had these kinds of you know.

00:49:28.151 --> 00:49:35.114
Regimes of violence they have not we can I never say they have healed I can

00:49:35.114 --> 00:49:37.315
only speak of a healing relationship,

00:49:38.156 --> 00:49:44.223
but I can say Germany, even with its current moment of sort of a rise of the

00:49:44.449 --> 00:49:49.041
AFD and ultra-right conservatism,

00:49:49.952 --> 00:49:55.624
even with that, because of what they've done previously, they have a healing relationship.

00:49:55.624 --> 00:50:01.595
It doesn't make it perfect, but it's a healing relationship because so much has been acknowledged.

00:50:02.465 --> 00:50:05.948
They don't have these conversations about this history is not important.

00:50:06.302 --> 00:50:08.102
Yeah, it is. We know it is.

00:50:08.944 --> 00:50:15.123
Go to the Memorial for Murdered Jews of Europe. Go to the Topography of Terror. Go to the House of Wamsi.

00:50:15.361 --> 00:50:21.264
Go to all these sites that, in one way or another, the government has funded

00:50:21.264 --> 00:50:22.929
and supported to tell that story.

00:50:23.476 --> 00:50:26.378
Germans cannot ignore this history.

00:50:27.690 --> 00:50:32.150
There may be future attacks similar to what's happening in the United States

00:50:32.150 --> 00:50:36.463
that tries to remove this, but in this moment right here, right now,

00:50:37.148 --> 00:50:42.898
those truths cannot be about national socialism and the Holocaust cannot be denied.

00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:44.982
We can't say the same in this country.

00:50:46.236 --> 00:50:54.850
And so for me, that is the profound work that happens as a process in creating a memorial.

00:50:54.850 --> 00:51:01.021
And for me, that is the only way that we begin to have that healing relationship,

00:51:01.613 --> 00:51:07.473
is a country that is necessary for us today.

00:51:08.893 --> 00:51:12.723
All right, Doc, I know you got to go, but if people want to reach out to you

00:51:12.723 --> 00:51:16.484
and follow up on what you just said or anything else, how can they do that?

00:51:17.469 --> 00:51:21.803
As I always tell you, dear brother, I'm easy to find. Please reach out to me

00:51:21.803 --> 00:51:24.940
on karloskhill.com. That's my website.

00:51:25.044 --> 00:51:30.363
If you just click on the contact button, there is a email form that you can

00:51:30.363 --> 00:51:33.045
just fill out and just connect with me that way.

00:51:33.568 --> 00:51:40.032
But I'm happy to receive, you know, phone calls, texting, whatever,

00:51:40.602 --> 00:51:43.383
because I really want to be engaged

00:51:43.383 --> 00:51:47.693
and stay engaged in conversations like we're having together today.

00:51:48.331 --> 00:51:51.563
Well, brother, again, thank you so much. You know the rules.

00:51:51.563 --> 00:51:55.082
So I'll just say, you know, I look forward to our next conversation.

00:51:55.664 --> 00:51:57.413
There will be a next conversation.

00:51:59.571 --> 00:52:03.713
So thank you dear brother always for sharing your platform with me and really

00:52:03.713 --> 00:52:09.889
truly giving me the space to talk through these really complicated,

00:52:10.423 --> 00:52:15.823
and and and really difficult histories you have provided so much space for me

00:52:15.823 --> 00:52:19.279
to to articulate things that just don't get articulated,

00:52:19.887 --> 00:52:25.003
and so I'm forever grateful for you for your for your for your show but also

00:52:25.003 --> 00:52:27.393
for your witness so thank Thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:52:27.741 --> 00:52:30.164
All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:52:49.845 --> 00:52:54.127
And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Justin Carter.

00:52:54.773 --> 00:52:58.389
Justin Carter is a public affairs and violence prevention leader,

00:52:58.855 --> 00:53:04.185
author, and national speaker whose work focuses on translating complex social

00:53:04.185 --> 00:53:08.927
issues into language that connects challenges and moves people toward action.

00:53:09.589 --> 00:53:13.589
He currently serves as a program manager at Futures Without Violence,

00:53:14.024 --> 00:53:18.735
where he supports organizations across the country working to prevent violence

00:53:18.735 --> 00:53:22.291
and promote safety, wellness, and accountability for children,

00:53:22.836 --> 00:53:24.079
youth, and communities.

00:53:24.746 --> 00:53:29.500
Justin is the author of the forthcoming book, Translation, From Bigotry to Justice,

00:53:30.017 --> 00:53:35.445
which explores how language, systems, and culture shape harm and healing,

00:53:35.979 --> 00:53:39.996
and how staying faithful to truth can open pathways toward justice.

00:53:40.739 --> 00:53:45.110
Drawing from lived experience, professional practice, and philosophy,

00:53:45.580 --> 00:53:50.535
his work centers on empathy, cultural fluency, masculinity, and the power of

00:53:50.535 --> 00:53:53.595
conversation to shift norms and behaviors.

00:53:54.203 --> 00:53:57.775
Whether working with national organizations, college campuses,

00:53:57.775 --> 00:54:03.415
or community leaders, Justin brings a grounded, accessible approach that blends

00:54:03.415 --> 00:54:05.545
honesty, reflection, and strategy.

00:54:06.085 --> 00:54:10.345
His work invites people to think differently about the world they live in and

00:54:10.345 --> 00:54:12.506
their role in shaping what comes next.

00:54:13.198 --> 00:54:17.598
Host note, Justin joined the podcast in his individual capacity.

00:54:18.004 --> 00:54:22.515
The views expressed are his own and do not represent futures without violence.

00:54:22.822 --> 00:54:26.839
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest,

00:54:27.310 --> 00:54:30.003
of this podcast, Justin Carter.

00:54:41.527 --> 00:54:44.417
Right. Justin Carter. How you doing, brother? You doing good?

00:54:44.851 --> 00:54:50.848
I'm doing well, Erik. How are you doing? Doing fine. This episode is going to air after Juneteenth.

00:54:51.116 --> 00:54:53.554
You got any big plans for the holiday?

00:54:54.246 --> 00:54:59.457
Yeah, I'm going to go see some family in Toledo, Ohio. So we got a nice little

00:54:59.457 --> 00:55:00.807
family reunion going on.

00:55:01.187 --> 00:55:05.177
Juneteenth celebration. I think I got some cousins in the parade.

00:55:05.177 --> 00:55:06.331
So it's going to be a good time.

00:55:06.691 --> 00:55:10.987
They got a parade in Toledo, Ohio. Boy, we moving up in a world. I know, right?

00:55:12.627 --> 00:55:16.837
They just started. I think Atlanta's going to have one. That's where I am in

00:55:16.837 --> 00:55:19.676
the Atlanta area. They're going to have one Saturday.

00:55:20.290 --> 00:55:26.197
Okay. So that should be interesting because I think it's the first one that

00:55:26.197 --> 00:55:31.105
they've done. So this whole thing is just evolving.

00:55:31.686 --> 00:55:34.970
And Toledo, Ohio, so that explains the Ohio State connection.

00:55:35.621 --> 00:55:38.855
Yes, sir. Yep. Went to Ohio State for undergrad.

00:55:39.348 --> 00:55:45.275
Yeah. Yeah. And then you ended up going to the University of Texas, which is kind of like...

00:55:46.127 --> 00:55:51.697
I don't know where your loyalties lie now. I don't know if you're an SEC guy

00:55:51.697 --> 00:55:54.209
or a Big Ten guy, you know, but we'll, you know.

00:55:54.411 --> 00:55:59.617
Yeah, I'm 100% Scarlet and Gray. The Ohio State was my dream school since I

00:55:59.617 --> 00:56:04.662
was in fifth grade, and I was able to go there. So I will forever be a Buckeye.

00:56:05.963 --> 00:56:11.017
All kudos to the Longhorns. You know, I love Texas. I love my time at Texas,

00:56:11.017 --> 00:56:15.107
but I could never not be a Buckeye. So that's how I feel about it.

00:56:15.667 --> 00:56:19.127
I understand. Well, you can't knock a school like Texas that's on Martin Luther

00:56:19.127 --> 00:56:21.125
King drive. That is true.

00:56:22.147 --> 00:56:25.137
Let me tell you something real quick. And this is, this is kind of normal for

00:56:25.137 --> 00:56:27.789
me, but I got to tell you this story because you can relate.

00:56:28.248 --> 00:56:33.967
So when I try, when I used to travel a lot, you know, if I saw a sign that said

00:56:33.967 --> 00:56:36.587
MLK drive, I said, all right, that's the hood. All right, good.

00:56:38.447 --> 00:56:40.637
If I want to get some good food or something like that, all right,

00:56:40.637 --> 00:56:42.047
that ain't right there. We need to go.

00:56:43.127 --> 00:56:46.637
Got to Austin, Texas, man. Got off of Martin Luther King. They said,

00:56:46.637 --> 00:56:49.167
well, we got to get off of Martin Luther King. Oh, we going through the hood

00:56:49.167 --> 00:56:50.909
before we get to the Capitol? Okay, cool.

00:56:51.646 --> 00:56:56.207
Because the city in Jackson, the state Capitol is in the hood.

00:56:56.207 --> 00:56:59.807
It's like it's in downtown, but it's like as soon as you look out the corner,

00:56:59.807 --> 00:57:01.700
it's like you in the hood right there.

00:57:02.167 --> 00:57:06.147
The Black History Museum is literally like two blocks away from the Capitol.

00:57:07.187 --> 00:57:11.267
So it's like, you know, we get up there and I'm like, is that the University

00:57:11.267 --> 00:57:14.902
of Texas? I said, oh, my God.

00:57:15.447 --> 00:57:17.947
You're a person who took a Martin Luther King drive. All right.

00:57:17.947 --> 00:57:21.717
I feel you, Austin. So, yeah, you can't knock the school like that.

00:57:22.687 --> 00:57:28.497
No, not at all. So what I normally like to do to start it off is I do a couple

00:57:28.497 --> 00:57:34.253
of icebreaker exercises. So the first one is a quote I want you to respond to.

00:57:34.427 --> 00:57:40.731
And the quote is, we are so much more than what has happened to us. Mm-hmm.

00:57:41.789 --> 00:57:45.879
Yeah, that's actually, I love that quote. There's another quote,

00:57:45.879 --> 00:57:51.159
too, by, actually, I'm drawing the blank on the name, but I'm not sure if you've

00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:54.561
ever been to Montgomery, Alabama, and the museum that's there,

00:57:55.147 --> 00:57:59.927
and one of their slogans, and it's on their t-shirts, I got a t-shirt, too, and it says,

00:58:00.707 --> 00:58:03.343
we are more than the worst decisions that we've ever made.

00:58:03.893 --> 00:58:09.629
And so this really resonates with me because I truly believe in radical forgiveness.

00:58:09.969 --> 00:58:14.109
I believe that we are so much more than a mistake. We are so much more than

00:58:14.109 --> 00:58:15.945
just one choice, one thing.

00:58:16.706 --> 00:58:18.669
We are so much more than.

00:58:21.467 --> 00:58:25.357
Just being singled out to just one single aspect of our lives.

00:58:25.763 --> 00:58:30.245
And so I feel like if we could adopt that across the country or even globally,

00:58:30.819 --> 00:58:33.158
it could change a lot of systems that we see now.

00:58:34.489 --> 00:58:39.064
And a lot of opportunities that people who have lost them for years and years,

00:58:39.506 --> 00:58:41.952
could get back one day. That is my hope anyway.

00:58:42.179 --> 00:58:46.429
Yeah, yeah, that's good positive thinking, brother.

00:58:48.829 --> 00:58:51.659
I wish there were some people in my life that had radical forgiveness,

00:58:51.659 --> 00:58:55.174
but that's a whole nother podcast, a whole nother day.

00:58:55.808 --> 00:58:58.798
The next exercise is what I call 20 questions.

00:58:59.501 --> 00:59:06.956
So I need you to give me a number between one and 20. Okay, let's go with 18. All righty.

00:59:08.152 --> 00:59:14.049
What's one thing we might all agree is important, no matter our differences? Hmm.

00:59:15.646 --> 00:59:21.278
I think, man, I've been thinking a lot on this because I've been writing some of this stuff in my book.

00:59:21.661 --> 00:59:28.848
But I think everyone would agree that we all deserve dignity and humanity.

00:59:30.032 --> 00:59:34.963
No matter who you are. Okay. Yeah. That, that seems pretty basic.

00:59:36.132 --> 00:59:39.442
No, I'm serious. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to minimize it.

00:59:39.442 --> 00:59:44.492
It's just, you know, it just makes sense. You know, it was like, I'm, I'm getting ready.

00:59:44.492 --> 00:59:48.552
I'm on my vacation time. And so when, you know, when I do that,

00:59:48.552 --> 00:59:50.342
I try to catch up on documentaries.

00:59:50.342 --> 00:59:56.017
And so dignity and humanity is a big part of the Thomas Jefferson story,

00:59:56.952 --> 01:00:01.772
especially as he was drafting the declaration of independence and this was one

01:00:01.772 --> 01:00:06.342
of the few documentaries that really got into the meat about his original draft

01:00:06.342 --> 01:00:08.543
as opposed to what we all know now,

01:00:09.932 --> 01:00:14.522
you know when he was trying to you know the paragraph he had about slavery and

01:00:14.522 --> 01:00:21.237
they took it out for political reasons and you know it was just just the way that he wrote that,

01:00:22.007 --> 01:00:25.522
you kind of forgot that he was a slave holder you know what i'm saying yeah

01:00:25.522 --> 01:00:30.542
because he was he was he was really talking about how we just took these people

01:00:30.542 --> 01:00:35.632
from africa and you forced he was blaming king george for slavery in america.

01:00:37.172 --> 01:00:40.502
And you know but i mean he was just the passion he wrote with it it was just

01:00:40.502 --> 01:00:45.492
kind of like you know so people were kind of like okay you know but yeah the

01:00:45.492 --> 01:00:47.601
dignity and humanity you could tell.

01:00:48.752 --> 01:00:53.352
He was addressing in that piece, even though he didn't live that lifestyle.

01:00:53.951 --> 01:00:58.384
What is Futures Without Violence, the organization that you work with?

01:00:58.917 --> 01:01:04.422
Yeah, so Futures Without Violence is a national organization, national nonprofit.

01:01:04.422 --> 01:01:08.362
Well, really, I would even honestly say global because there's a work that we

01:01:08.362 --> 01:01:13.312
do across the seas as well that's really focused on providing safety,

01:01:13.632 --> 01:01:17.622
healing for communities across everywhere, honestly.

01:01:17.854 --> 01:01:24.412
We got our start in domestic violence and serving survivors of those situations,

01:01:24.412 --> 01:01:26.417
but expanded understanding that,

01:01:27.009 --> 01:01:30.862
violence is connected through so many different avenues in so many ways.

01:01:30.862 --> 01:01:33.424
And so we have to start focusing on violence.

01:01:34.353 --> 01:01:38.123
Different aspects of violence as it relates to domestic violence, right?

01:01:38.123 --> 01:01:43.453
And that can be a part of family violence. It could be potentially gun violence.

01:01:43.453 --> 01:01:48.346
It could be gang violence. It could be all these different forms of violences that we,

01:01:49.190 --> 01:01:55.153
I would say, continue to strive to eliminate in our world, to

01:01:55.573 --> 01:02:00.473
really create safety and security for all families, including children who,

01:02:00.853 --> 01:02:04.618
which my specific team is a part of, our children and youth team.

01:02:05.265 --> 01:02:11.192
Okay. So how did your path lead you to work for Futures?

01:02:12.550 --> 01:02:16.130
Yeah. So I've had a long, long journey in this work.

01:02:17.130 --> 01:02:22.276
So I actually started this work when I was 19 years old when I was looking for,

01:02:22.736 --> 01:02:27.174
an internship just to see what it is that I wanted to do in the world.

01:02:27.850 --> 01:02:31.106
I started wanting to do focus on anxiety and depression.

01:02:31.565 --> 01:02:36.145
And so I did that. I was in a psychology major.

01:02:36.795 --> 01:02:43.030
And I actually had a cousin whose best friend was working at this organization

01:02:43.030 --> 01:02:45.078
called the Ohio Domestic Violence Network.

01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.620
And so she talked to her and I then talked to her friend and was like,

01:02:49.620 --> 01:02:54.970
hey, looking for an internship. Is there a way they can get me in, see what can happen?

01:02:55.388 --> 01:02:59.530
And so she said, OK, let's start bringing you on board. And so I talked to her

01:02:59.530 --> 01:03:01.483
and I talked to her supervisor, talked to the staff.

01:03:01.976 --> 01:03:06.790
And then ultimately, it was thought that I didn't have enough experience and

01:03:06.790 --> 01:03:10.965
I just wasn't ready to be in that line of work, so to speak,

01:03:11.331 --> 01:03:16.540
which I think is interesting, just knowing that internships is meant for you to learn things.

01:03:16.540 --> 01:03:21.060
But I digress on that. But anyway, I'm a Virgo through and through.

01:03:21.060 --> 01:03:24.450
And so if you tell me I couldn't do something, then I'm going to do everything

01:03:24.450 --> 01:03:26.190
I can to make sure I can do it.

01:03:27.063 --> 01:03:32.206
So what that meant was I took every single training that there was possible on their website.

01:03:32.601 --> 01:03:39.590
I was at every training, and I learned so much as it relates to not only domestic

01:03:39.590 --> 01:03:41.392
violence, but just violence in general.

01:03:42.028 --> 01:03:46.480
And it really opened my eyes to a lot of different situations,

01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:49.191
scenarios, just things that are going out in the world.

01:03:50.107 --> 01:03:53.560
It really made me get really interested into the work.

01:03:53.983 --> 01:03:58.941
And so a year or a year or so later, I met this guy whose name is Tony Porter.

01:03:59.405 --> 01:04:03.441
He's pretty influential in the field about men against violence.

01:04:03.859 --> 01:04:08.887
And he really took me under his wing and said, hey, like, have you ever thought

01:04:08.887 --> 01:04:11.767
about this thing called men and masculinity? Have you ever thought about this

01:04:11.767 --> 01:04:13.385
thing called men against violence?

01:04:13.809 --> 01:04:16.787
And, you know, me, I was like, I don't know what that means.

01:04:16.787 --> 01:04:21.007
So as he was able to like really opened my mind and explored.

01:04:21.007 --> 01:04:23.734
He got me to more trainings, more conferences.

01:04:24.467 --> 01:04:29.117
I then found my passion and what I wanted to do. And what I've come to know

01:04:29.117 --> 01:04:31.497
now is just ending violence in general.

01:04:31.497 --> 01:04:37.137
But at the time, and even still, it's really about being my true authentic self

01:04:37.137 --> 01:04:40.827
and how do I promote that authenticity through the work that I do.

01:04:41.187 --> 01:04:47.677
And so I ended up reapplying to be an intern at the Ohio Domestic Violence Network.

01:04:47.677 --> 01:04:51.238
But instead of hiring me as an intern, they ended up hiring me as staff.

01:04:51.453 --> 01:04:56.277
And so I became a staff member with them as their engaging men coordinator.

01:04:56.277 --> 01:05:00.116
And I was doing men's against violence work during that time.

01:05:00.482 --> 01:05:02.544
And then it was time for me to move to.

01:05:03.395 --> 01:05:07.635
Texas because I was just ready to get out of Ohio. I felt like the work that

01:05:07.635 --> 01:05:10.075
I had done in Ohio was really, really great.

01:05:10.435 --> 01:05:15.385
I really soared in that career in that small bit of time that I was there working

01:05:15.385 --> 01:05:19.625
with universities all across the country, parts of the country,

01:05:19.625 --> 01:05:22.049
yes, but also in all parts of Ohio.

01:05:22.484 --> 01:05:26.875
And so it put me on a stage of, okay, Justin knows what he's talking about.

01:05:26.875 --> 01:05:28.667
Like there's a voice for him.

01:05:29.207 --> 01:05:34.785
And so I decided that it was time for me to go. I got my master's degree from

01:05:34.785 --> 01:05:36.568
the University of Texas at Austin.

01:05:36.940 --> 01:05:43.145
But at the time, I was there doing suicide prevention and working for our crisis

01:05:43.145 --> 01:05:46.385
response, which student emergency services, as we were calling it.

01:05:46.864 --> 01:05:51.107
So I was doing a lot of that work while also being in grad school.

01:05:51.415 --> 01:05:54.933
But and on the side, But I was also a consultant as well.

01:05:55.287 --> 01:06:00.355
So I never left the men's engagement space. I never left the violence prevention

01:06:00.355 --> 01:06:02.868
space. I was just doing it on the side as a consultant.

01:06:03.361 --> 01:06:08.425
And that leads me to how I met Futures. I actually met a couple of them because

01:06:08.425 --> 01:06:11.854
they were hosting something in Montgomery, Alabama, actually.

01:06:12.249 --> 01:06:17.155
They were hosting a like kind of like a meetup for different practitioners and

01:06:17.155 --> 01:06:18.369
folks around the country.

01:06:18.856 --> 01:06:22.405
And I was able to meet them there. And they were just telling me about Futures.

01:06:22.405 --> 01:06:25.274
And I had known about futures in so many different ways, but not.

01:06:26.269 --> 01:06:30.339
Not directly. I had never spoken to anybody directly. And so once I learned

01:06:30.339 --> 01:06:33.419
about them and they were like, hey, like, you know, this thing is coming up.

01:06:33.419 --> 01:06:36.088
We'd love to see you more this, that, and the third.

01:06:36.483 --> 01:06:41.472
And so as, after I graduated with my master's degree in public policy,

01:06:41.796 --> 01:06:43.729
I ended up moving to Washington, DC.

01:06:44.640 --> 01:06:49.709
And so I was here in DC for a while being a consultant and I just so happened

01:06:49.709 --> 01:06:51.409
to see that Futures was hiring.

01:06:51.710 --> 01:06:56.180
And I was like, wait a minute, This is that same organization that I met when I was in Montgomery.

01:06:56.668 --> 01:07:00.679
And so I sent an application in and of course they remembered me and they were

01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:04.229
like, oh my goodness, yes, like come, let's talk this, that,

01:07:04.229 --> 01:07:07.159
and the third. And eventually I ended up getting hired there.

01:07:07.159 --> 01:07:09.734
So they brought me on as a program manager.

01:07:10.154 --> 01:07:15.079
I mean, now I do a whole lot of stuff, what it feels like, but it's just amazing

01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:19.319
how connection just comes full circle because I never would have met them had

01:07:19.319 --> 01:07:24.190
I not continued to do my consulting, continuing networking out in the field.

01:07:24.498 --> 01:07:29.279
And the way that I got to that initial meeting is I knew somebody who knew somebody

01:07:29.529 --> 01:07:33.464
who knew me and said, hey, I think you should invite Justin to this.

01:07:33.777 --> 01:07:34.909
And that's how I was able to go.

01:07:35.229 --> 01:07:38.289
And that's how I was able to meet futures. So, and then two years later,

01:07:38.289 --> 01:07:40.709
here I am connected with them working on their staff.

01:07:40.709 --> 01:07:45.109
So yeah, that was, that is my long, long journey of how I was able to get to

01:07:45.109 --> 01:07:49.479
futures, but still in the field, there's so many folks that are connected and

01:07:49.479 --> 01:07:55.086
I'm glad that I continued to do the work and folks still recognize who I was in my voice.

01:07:55.896 --> 01:08:00.196
Yeah, see, so there are a couple of valuable lessons in that story.

01:08:00.516 --> 01:08:03.710
One is never doubt yourself.

01:08:04.262 --> 01:08:08.943
Go forward. And if you believe that you can do something, don't be afraid to.

01:08:09.956 --> 01:08:11.550
Take a chance. Get out there and do it.

01:08:11.979 --> 01:08:15.636
Then the other thing is network with people, right?

01:08:16.361 --> 01:08:20.576
Just get out and make yourself known to folks. And, you know,

01:08:21.536 --> 01:08:25.466
I come from a political background, So you would think that's automatically

01:08:25.466 --> 01:08:28.058
natural, but there are a lot of folks, man, that don't get it.

01:08:28.470 --> 01:08:32.436
They just run for office and it's like, who are you? And yeah,

01:08:33.265 --> 01:08:36.306
we don't. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like, at least somebody just

01:08:36.306 --> 01:08:40.096
say, oh, I saw you on TV. Oh, I remember you were at, you spoke at my church

01:08:40.096 --> 01:08:42.750
or something like that. At least do something. You know what I'm saying?

01:08:43.046 --> 01:08:49.086
So, yeah, those are especially younger folks. So you pay attention to that. Yeah.

01:08:49.865 --> 01:08:53.167
Opportunity is everything for sure. Yeah, yeah.

01:08:53.731 --> 01:09:00.531
So let me ask you this question, because would you consider yourself Gen Z or a millennial?

01:09:02.022 --> 01:09:07.287
I think technically I'm a millennial. I would definitely identify as a millennial.

01:09:07.664 --> 01:09:11.598
And my birthday is like right after right at the cutoff for millennial.

01:09:12.009 --> 01:09:16.525
But a lot of my friends and the folks that I hung out with are our older millennials.

01:09:16.525 --> 01:09:18.094
So that's that's what I would say.

01:09:18.372 --> 01:09:22.865
I don't identify as much as Gen Z. I don't even, I don't really be on TikTok like that.

01:09:23.745 --> 01:09:28.735
I just, I'm the, I'm not quite on Facebook where I see the stuff that came from

01:09:28.735 --> 01:09:32.705
Instagram that came from TikTok. I'm like, I'm on Instagram where the stuff

01:09:32.705 --> 01:09:36.565
from TikTok came to Instagram. So that's, that's where I'm at right now.

01:09:36.565 --> 01:09:37.755
So definitely a millennial.

01:09:38.028 --> 01:09:43.180
Well, I feel you because I'm, I'm, I'm like in the older generation of Gen X.

01:09:44.165 --> 01:09:48.676
I mean, I'm right on the line with Baby Boomer. so you know it's kind of like,

01:09:49.330 --> 01:09:54.715
you know i i feel you on the on the on the identity thing but based on my life

01:09:54.715 --> 01:09:57.545
experience i was definitely a gen x kid.

01:09:58.631 --> 01:10:03.305
So the reason why i asked that because i had on the last episode a millennial

01:10:03.305 --> 01:10:04.902
sister that's based here in atlanta,

01:10:05.579 --> 01:10:11.783
and i asked her the question what is the most important issue that your generation,

01:10:12.306 --> 01:10:16.829
is facing that you want leaders to address. So I'll pose that to you.

01:10:17.736 --> 01:10:25.336
Yeah, I think at this time, there's just such a divide within our nation and

01:10:25.336 --> 01:10:32.067
within, I think, globally, too. But there's just a divide as it relates to, one, communication.

01:10:32.277 --> 01:10:34.162
Another thing is misinformation.

01:10:34.569 --> 01:10:38.556
And the last thing I would say is truth and trust, right?

01:10:38.556 --> 01:10:42.876
Like, I think that if we are going to have leaders who are going to take us

01:10:42.876 --> 01:10:46.742
to a direction that's going to move all of us forward for our benefit,

01:10:47.113 --> 01:10:49.086
it, then they need to be honest with us.

01:10:49.086 --> 01:10:53.876
They need to be truthful about what the situation is, what they can and cannot do.

01:10:54.242 --> 01:10:57.136
And then lastly, understand that they're going to have to,

01:10:57.616 --> 01:11:02.686
combat misinformation because that is everything that I feel like we're battling

01:11:02.686 --> 01:11:07.266
in this world, especially on social media, is just how much misinformation is

01:11:07.266 --> 01:11:11.783
out there and how it feels like nowadays that people just take

01:11:12.184 --> 01:11:15.080
truth as just their opinion about something.

01:11:15.404 --> 01:11:18.706
And there's no like real truth in the world everything is just like what you

01:11:18.706 --> 01:11:23.396
think about it you know and to me that's not the reality of the world that we

01:11:23.396 --> 01:11:26.214
live in and our leaders have to understand that,

01:11:26.956 --> 01:11:32.836
they have to be bounded by some type of universal truth that is a part of yeah

01:11:32.836 --> 01:11:37.218
that is a part of our world so yeah i would say leave with that okay,

01:11:38.220 --> 01:11:41.480
do you find in this current.

01:11:43.078 --> 01:11:49.013
Era or moment in time that we're in, do you find it a challenge to your work,

01:11:49.599 --> 01:11:53.078
or as an opportunity for your work? Hmm.

01:11:54.141 --> 01:12:00.306
It depends on what work you're talking about. Honestly, I think it's yes and,

01:12:00.470 --> 01:12:04.679
or I'll say this, two things can be true at the same time, right?

01:12:04.958 --> 01:12:10.292
Like it is absolutely a hindrance, the times that we are on and the work that I do,

01:12:10.658 --> 01:12:15.898
just with the amount of censorship that is coming from the administration,

01:12:15.898 --> 01:12:20.868
but also just the public in general about how folks feel about things,

01:12:21.190 --> 01:12:23.679
the denying of humanity of people.

01:12:23.997 --> 01:12:27.688
And we've seen that time and time again, especially recently.

01:12:27.688 --> 01:12:32.178
And that is absolutely the work that I do is to give folks humanities,

01:12:32.178 --> 01:12:35.967
to show the world that people have their own humanity and dignity.

01:12:36.408 --> 01:12:39.798
And you have an opposing side who wants to take that completely away.

01:12:39.798 --> 01:12:41.952
So that's 100% challenging.

01:12:42.347 --> 01:12:48.288
Funding is challenging as well, right? Like it's, I think nonprofits,

01:12:48.288 --> 01:12:50.953
it's hard to be in a space where you get

01:12:51.377 --> 01:12:56.198
a lot of federal dollars or a lot of funding from folks who get to tell you

01:12:56.198 --> 01:12:57.978
what to do with the money, right?

01:12:57.978 --> 01:13:01.716
Even though you are the expert on how do you make a better world.

01:13:02.064 --> 01:13:05.640
That's challenging because everybody's priorities change, it seems.

01:13:06.012 --> 01:13:09.855
And so every four years, there's a new administration that has different priorities,

01:13:10.181 --> 01:13:14.108
which changes so many different things on what gets funded and what doesn't

01:13:14.108 --> 01:13:18.950
get funded, right? So I would definitely say it's a hindrance in that aspect.

01:13:19.897 --> 01:13:22.887
Although there is a benefit at the same time. Right.

01:13:22.887 --> 01:13:28.797
So I think one of the things that we've done so much in our field and the field

01:13:28.797 --> 01:13:30.330
I mean is violence prevention field,

01:13:30.928 --> 01:13:36.257
is the fact that we have all this academic jargon, all these words that we talk

01:13:36.257 --> 01:13:39.055
about, all these things that we need to have.

01:13:40.100 --> 01:13:42.717
All these different committees for this, for that, for this.

01:13:42.717 --> 01:13:47.899
And it's like, how do we make our languages plain and simple for somebody to understand? Right.

01:13:48.104 --> 01:13:52.977
How do I if I know somebody's value is safety, how do I make sure that I can

01:13:52.977 --> 01:13:57.197
tell them about how my program is going to make you safe rather than telling

01:13:57.197 --> 01:14:02.075
you about all this extra public health knowledge of how this works and how that works?

01:14:02.383 --> 01:14:07.537
Which is important, right? It frames the work that we do and absolutely is needed,

01:14:07.537 --> 01:14:12.994
but it's not necessary to have a conversation with someone who's on the ground, who wants to start.

01:14:13.797 --> 01:14:16.967
A community clothing drive because they know there's a couple of families in

01:14:16.967 --> 01:14:19.157
the community that don't have clothes for school, right?

01:14:19.157 --> 01:14:22.822
We don't need all that information to help them with the clothing drive.

01:14:23.217 --> 01:14:30.351
And so I think this is a time more than ever when it relates to censorship to translate our language

01:14:30.746 --> 01:14:35.047
and to actually say what we mean when we're talking about diversity,

01:14:35.047 --> 01:14:39.557
inclusion and all the words that aren't necessarily great words,

01:14:39.557 --> 01:14:41.967
quote unquote, by certain actors.

01:14:41.967 --> 01:14:45.911
Right. Well, how do we talk about what we act, what those words actually mean

01:14:46.265 --> 01:14:50.337
and do the thing that those words are actually meaning without just saying,

01:14:50.657 --> 01:14:53.585
hey, we have a diversity statement because we believe in all this. Right.

01:14:53.858 --> 01:14:57.267
Like it's so much more than just a diversity statement, so much more than just

01:14:57.267 --> 01:15:03.037
these checkboxes that everybody seems to have nowadays because it's being targeted

01:15:03.037 --> 01:15:05.197
and eliminated by certain actors.

01:15:05.197 --> 01:15:08.977
So, and, you know, use your imagination of who those actors are,

01:15:09.437 --> 01:15:12.939
who are paying attention to these certain,

01:15:13.730 --> 01:15:19.550
words and actions that, or I'd say words and phrases and different quote-unquote

01:15:19.550 --> 01:15:24.730
ideologies that folks are having as it relates to justice or social justice

01:15:24.730 --> 01:15:26.318
and things like that. Yeah.

01:15:26.902 --> 01:15:34.525
I think, you know, I use an analogy a lot about a person that runs hurdles, right?

01:15:35.610 --> 01:15:42.169
It's like, you see them, you know that you've got to go over these hurdles to get to that finish line.

01:15:42.767 --> 01:15:49.580
And, you know, it's like you, you see, that's a challenge, but at the same time,

01:15:49.580 --> 01:15:54.020
you've got an opportunity to be the best hurdler at that particular moment.

01:15:54.020 --> 01:16:01.220
And the key is to, to execute your plan and, and do what you got to do to get over it.

01:16:01.220 --> 01:16:07.280
And I, I just think, you know, So it just makes sense, you know,

01:16:07.280 --> 01:16:10.061
where people that are successful,

01:16:10.852 --> 01:16:15.050
you know, understand the challenges out there, but they always look at it as

01:16:15.050 --> 01:16:18.933
an opportunity to showcase and do what you do.

01:16:19.299 --> 01:16:25.133
And so, yeah, so I definitely relate to what you were saying on that.

01:16:25.759 --> 01:16:32.114
What shapes harm and healing more language systems or culture? Hmm.

01:16:33.310 --> 01:16:39.166
Said harm or healing? Harm and healing. Oh, harm and healing. What shapes it more?

01:16:40.447 --> 01:16:46.690
So here's the thing. I think, I don't know, I might be the worst person you

01:16:46.690 --> 01:16:49.556
interview because I'm going to say yes and all the time.

01:16:50.730 --> 01:16:55.157
I'm going to say yes and I'm going to say two things can be true because that's what I believe.

01:16:56.170 --> 01:16:59.845
I think that language shapes our culture.

01:17:00.106 --> 01:17:06.660
So the language that we use creates a reality, and that becomes our culture that we live in, right?

01:17:06.660 --> 01:17:12.177
And so, for example, if we live in a culture where we use the language,

01:17:12.537 --> 01:17:17.520
well, we do live in a culture where we use just language that promotes violence

01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:19.100
or just violent language in general.

01:17:19.100 --> 01:17:22.282
Just sit and think about how many times you've heard the words,

01:17:22.712 --> 01:17:28.374
go break a leg, or they threw me under the bus, or you're kicking me in the head with this, right?

01:17:28.722 --> 01:17:33.710
So, if we're using these terms and these words, then if we see it on TV,

01:17:34.230 --> 01:17:39.160
then it becomes less sensitized, right? Because we're already using it in our language.

01:17:39.392 --> 01:17:44.660
And then eventually, if we see it in real life or if we hear about something

01:17:44.660 --> 01:17:49.310
that is being impacted by violence in so many ways, again, it's less sensitized

01:17:49.310 --> 01:17:51.452
to us because we're still using it in our language.

01:17:51.847 --> 01:17:54.150
It's the same thing when we talk about mental health, right?

01:17:54.150 --> 01:17:57.753
If we talk about suicide, I did suicide prevention for a long time.

01:17:58.571 --> 01:18:02.931
And we are using the phrases like if something, let's say we get a bad grade

01:18:02.931 --> 01:18:04.591
on the test and it sucks, right?

01:18:05.158 --> 01:18:08.531
Listen, I have some bad grades on some tests and they suck.

01:18:08.531 --> 01:18:13.231
But in the culture or folks language that they use is, oh, my goodness,

01:18:13.231 --> 01:18:17.391
I got to be on this test. I'm going to off myself or I got to this professor's

01:18:17.391 --> 01:18:21.398
isn't talking to me. I'm just going to drink some bleach. I would say would drink bleach. Right.

01:18:21.591 --> 01:18:25.276
Right. Like those types of things, although we might think it as joking,

01:18:25.565 --> 01:18:30.291
it's serious because that becomes the culture where we're desensitized to things

01:18:30.291 --> 01:18:33.751
like actual folks who might be facing suicide. Right.

01:18:34.111 --> 01:18:38.981
If somebody says if somebody says I'm going to off myself at every little inconvenience

01:18:38.981 --> 01:18:43.941
that they encounter, then how do we know that when something is really,

01:18:43.941 --> 01:18:47.251
really serious that they encounter in their lives and they do.

01:18:47.851 --> 01:18:50.671
Or they are considering suicide?

01:18:50.671 --> 01:18:54.756
Side, how do we know what is the serious thing, right? And how does our culture

01:18:54.912 --> 01:18:59.821
know that we need to protect or support this person if we have a culture that

01:18:59.821 --> 01:19:02.511
just says, yeah, we say this all the time.

01:19:02.511 --> 01:19:05.491
We don't know who's actually in trouble. We don't know who's actually in trouble.

01:19:05.491 --> 01:19:09.820
So our language is really shaping the culture that we live in.

01:19:10.093 --> 01:19:15.781
And it's unfortunate because in that aspect, it's shaping this culture of non-support.

01:19:15.781 --> 01:19:19.591
And as much as everybody talks about mental health and you need to take care

01:19:19.591 --> 01:19:21.817
of your mental health, you need to do this, you need to do that.

01:19:22.095 --> 01:19:25.531
We're not paying attention to the language that we are actually using as it

01:19:25.531 --> 01:19:29.591
relates to things that are as serious as diagnosed depression,

01:19:29.591 --> 01:19:33.511
diagnosed anxiety disorder, diagnosed ADHD, right?

01:19:33.511 --> 01:19:37.821
There's all these different mental health issues that folks are just using casually

01:19:37.821 --> 01:19:41.691
in our language that, you know, it's hard to know if you're feeling sad or if

01:19:41.691 --> 01:19:43.441
you're actually depressed, right?

01:19:43.441 --> 01:19:46.563
We don't know because our culture says that all of that is the same.

01:19:47.274 --> 01:19:52.301
So that is how it shapes. Language is definitely the starter,

01:19:52.476 --> 01:19:55.546
and then it creates the reality that we live in.

01:19:56.017 --> 01:20:00.935
Yeah, yeah. And trust me, you're not the worst interviewer.

01:20:03.494 --> 01:20:06.934
You're making a lot of sense. And so I greatly appreciate it.

01:20:08.546 --> 01:20:11.007
All right. So how do you activate courage?

01:20:13.029 --> 01:20:19.531
Yeah. So courage is, man, there is a philosopher who talks about.

01:20:20.991 --> 01:20:23.616
Oh, Lord, I'm drawing the blank on their name.

01:20:23.616 --> 01:20:28.386
But there's a philosopher who basically talks about the action that is two halves

01:20:28.386 --> 01:20:30.685
or that's in the middle of two extremes. Right.

01:20:31.172 --> 01:20:37.051
So let's say doing something reckless or doing something, doing something.

01:20:37.214 --> 01:20:40.662
How do you say, doing something safe or not doing something at all,

01:20:41.023 --> 01:20:42.786
courage is in the middle of that, right?

01:20:43.406 --> 01:20:49.476
That's how you should think about it, is you, the way to activate courage is

01:20:49.476 --> 01:20:54.176
to number one, know that you want to do the right thing about something or something

01:20:54.176 --> 01:20:55.592
deserves to have the right thing.

01:20:56.010 --> 01:21:00.316
I think all of us have a responsibility to make sure that the reality in the

01:21:00.316 --> 01:21:04.416
world that we all live in is safe and kind and loving for everybody else.

01:21:04.794 --> 01:21:09.732
And so it takes courage to stand up to things that don't promote those things, right?

01:21:10.080 --> 01:21:14.716
And so courage is the reason why I was talking about that philosopher with courage

01:21:14.716 --> 01:21:18.896
being in the middle of those two extremes, because sometimes in order to have

01:21:18.896 --> 01:21:22.116
your courage, it causes you to be a real reckless, right?

01:21:22.116 --> 01:21:26.606
It causes you to be reckless with your relationship if you have to stand up

01:21:26.606 --> 01:21:30.126
or speak out against something against a superior, right?

01:21:30.126 --> 01:21:34.946
If you know, if a superior made a comment that might sound racist or might sound

01:21:34.946 --> 01:21:39.826
sexist or might sound whatever it is, it's reckless in a sense of you're speaking

01:21:39.826 --> 01:21:43.889
up at the time because you don't know what your superior is going to say to you.

01:21:44.195 --> 01:21:48.636
But it's also being safe in the moment because you're also protecting other

01:21:48.636 --> 01:21:51.826
people who might be in the room that might be affected by those things.

01:21:51.826 --> 01:21:56.036
So you're handling your courage and you're saying, hey, I'm going to stand up

01:21:56.036 --> 01:22:00.796
to this because this isn't promoting human dignity. This isn't promoting love,

01:22:00.796 --> 01:22:02.286
safety, and community. Right.

01:22:03.099 --> 01:22:07.750
The reality or the world that I want to live in. So that's how I would say you would activate it.

01:22:08.029 --> 01:22:12.659
Anytime you see those things being denied, it needs to be, it needs to be pushed forward.

01:22:13.256 --> 01:22:21.179
Yeah. All right. So you, you, you have this book or you're working on a book

01:22:21.179 --> 01:22:25.088
called Translation from Bigotry to Justice, right?

01:22:25.448 --> 01:22:27.311
Yes. When is that coming out?

01:22:29.145 --> 01:22:31.039
Fingers crossed this year.

01:22:33.279 --> 01:22:35.959
I actually just had a meeting with my editor not too long ago,

01:22:36.279 --> 01:22:40.369
and she's drafting the final manuscript of the edits.

01:22:40.369 --> 01:22:45.839
So I have some time between now and I guess a month now for a whole month,

01:22:45.839 --> 01:22:49.354
I would say, to like really put it in a place where it's ready to be published.

01:22:49.923 --> 01:22:55.009
And so I'm hoping by before the end of this year, I would I would love in an

01:22:55.009 --> 01:22:57.948
ideal world that would be published by my birthday, September 7th.

01:22:58.430 --> 01:23:02.489
There'd be a big birthday present to me. I'm I will be turning 30 that day.

01:23:02.489 --> 01:23:06.037
So it would be a great like this is what we did at 30, you know,

01:23:06.455 --> 01:23:10.789
so hopefully that comes out then. So it's it's written. It's being edited and

01:23:10.789 --> 01:23:12.677
it's almost ready to be published.

01:23:12.973 --> 01:23:17.839
Yeah, that'd be cool to be a New York Times bestseller at 30. Like, hey, wouldn't it?

01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:21.889
You know, this is what I did at 30. What you do. Right.

01:23:23.599 --> 01:23:27.474
So give me a summary as what this book is about.

01:23:28.360 --> 01:23:35.183
Yes. So this book is all about how do we how do we carry truth across difference?

01:23:35.697 --> 01:23:41.400
And so it's the understanding that everybody carries their own truth and that

01:23:41.400 --> 01:23:43.860
there is a universal truth in this world.

01:23:44.204 --> 01:23:48.980
And we have to recognize a universal truth to have a conversation with each

01:23:48.980 --> 01:23:52.190
other to get our truths across from each other.

01:23:52.190 --> 01:23:58.820
So I know that is a little confusing, but basically the idea is how do we lose our language to,

01:23:59.480 --> 01:24:03.517
talk and communicate and connect with each other that might have different ideas

01:24:03.842 --> 01:24:08.770
or different thoughts or different opinions while also speaking what we mean, right?

01:24:08.770 --> 01:24:14.150
And carrying our truth to somebody that, yeah, that they can use and shape their

01:24:14.150 --> 01:24:18.950
world and their reality so we can ultimately benefit our society because we're

01:24:18.950 --> 01:24:22.477
talking to each other rather than talking past each other. Yeah.

01:24:22.988 --> 01:24:26.980
So that that plays into my rule. I could go ahead and say it now.

01:24:26.980 --> 01:24:30.412
So once you've been on this show, you have an open invitation to come back.

01:24:30.948 --> 01:24:34.815
OK, so, you know, that's a perfect issue. Hey, the book's out.

01:24:35.041 --> 01:24:38.540
I need to I need a platform. So, yeah, if you knew that, just reach out to me.

01:24:38.540 --> 01:24:39.678
We'll make that happen, brother.

01:24:40.658 --> 01:24:45.958
You say that. So how can people reach out to you?

01:24:46.120 --> 01:24:50.766
How can people reach out to Futures? Because Futures is a nonprofit.

01:24:50.970 --> 01:24:54.425
So y'all need some money.

01:24:55.698 --> 01:24:59.558
How can people get in contact with you or Futures?

01:25:00.388 --> 01:25:05.334
Yeah, so they can go. So as it relates to Futures, it's Futures Without Violence.

01:25:05.654 --> 01:25:10.112
So they can go directly to the website and see all the amazing things that we do there.

01:25:10.448 --> 01:25:14.228
There's a lot of different services that we give across the country and as well

01:25:14.228 --> 01:25:18.738
as globally as well. So if folks wanted to have questions or need a support

01:25:18.738 --> 01:25:21.562
on whatever program or project that they might be working on,

01:25:21.765 --> 01:25:25.179
Futures is definitely there to support whatever that project might be.

01:25:25.836 --> 01:25:31.574
Well, Justin Carter, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast and talk.

01:25:32.474 --> 01:25:38.123
You know, the one cool thing about this platform, it gives me the opportunity to lift people up.

01:25:39.181 --> 01:25:44.351
You may not be a national household name now, but you will be as long as you

01:25:44.351 --> 01:25:48.721
keep down the path and keep doing what you're doing, especially if this book

01:25:48.721 --> 01:25:50.901
is as successful as I think it will be.

01:25:51.564 --> 01:25:56.921
You know, but I just I just I really and I'll say this is just a personal moment.

01:25:57.561 --> 01:26:04.751
I think that, you know, it's very important for people like me to show love

01:26:04.751 --> 01:26:06.908
and support to young folks.

01:26:07.621 --> 01:26:10.321
And to try to, especially in our

01:26:10.321 --> 01:26:14.571
community, to try to lift them up and to highlight them as much as I can.

01:26:15.137 --> 01:26:20.231
Absolutely. So, like I said, it was an honor for me that you accepted the invitation

01:26:20.231 --> 01:26:22.197
to give me the opportunity to do that.

01:26:22.789 --> 01:26:27.816
And I wish you much continued success, not only in the work that you're doing,

01:26:28.402 --> 01:26:31.441
but on some of the projects that you're working on on the side.

01:26:31.441 --> 01:26:34.501
Because, you know, we Black folks, we got to always have something on the side.

01:26:34.501 --> 01:26:39.781
You know, yeah, we got to have a side hustle, no matter what.

01:26:40.401 --> 01:26:43.784
Yeah, but thank you again for coming on. I appreciate it, brother.

01:26:44.384 --> 01:26:48.561
Yeah, thank you, Erik, for the opportunity for coming on and allow me to use

01:26:48.561 --> 01:26:52.890
your platform to just talk about the work that's going on, but also to hopefully

01:26:53.221 --> 01:26:58.178
inspire some change in our world as well, because I'm always for that, too.

01:26:58.503 --> 01:27:01.905
Yeah. All right, guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:27:14.326 --> 01:27:19.536
All right. And we are back. And so now I want to thank Dr.

01:27:19.536 --> 01:27:22.716
Karlos K. Hill for giving that

01:27:22.716 --> 01:27:30.106
insightful, thoughtful history about Juneteenth and the importance of.

01:27:31.068 --> 01:27:36.208
You know, celebrating our culture and remembering our history.

01:27:36.731 --> 01:27:40.596
As always, he's become a regular contributor to the podcast,

01:27:40.596 --> 01:27:42.908
and I greatly, greatly appreciate that.

01:27:43.561 --> 01:27:48.953
You know, he's a very, very scholarly, deep brother.

01:27:49.657 --> 01:27:56.422
And ever since, you know, our first interview together, he's really been supportive

01:27:56.660 --> 01:28:02.906
of the podcast and seems like he enjoys our conversation.

01:28:02.906 --> 01:28:07.106
So we're definitely going to keep that going. So, Dr. Hill, thank you so much

01:28:07.106 --> 01:28:10.656
for always taking time to do this.

01:28:11.247 --> 01:28:15.316
And then Justin Carter, that's a young brother y'all going to be seeing down

01:28:15.316 --> 01:28:20.546
the road, you know, because not everybody that is, quote unquote,

01:28:20.546 --> 01:28:24.153
up and coming is just going to jump out there and run for office. Right.

01:28:24.781 --> 01:28:29.849
But, you know, we've got a lot of up and coming activists.

01:28:30.410 --> 01:28:37.020
And so been very fortunate the last couple of episodes to be able to highlight,

01:28:37.615 --> 01:28:44.826
some young people that's doing some good work and I anticipate we're doing a.

01:28:45.786 --> 01:28:47.342
Lot more great work.

01:28:47.939 --> 01:28:53.176
And as a matter of fact, we're going to try to see that once his book comes

01:28:53.176 --> 01:28:57.042
out that we'll get him back on to talk more about the book.

01:28:57.866 --> 01:29:01.365
But I hope that you enjoyed those interviews with them.

01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:08.602
All right. So let's get into my thoughts, my rant for this week.

01:29:09.173 --> 01:29:13.990
And as always, I say, I'm trying not to be long with it, but there's some things

01:29:13.990 --> 01:29:15.506
I need to get off my chest.

01:29:16.339 --> 01:29:21.256
One is a good thing. The first one, we've got some more black folks nominated

01:29:21.569 --> 01:29:24.906
to, well, one of them is nominated.

01:29:25.069 --> 01:29:29.570
The other one's in a runoff for the United States Senate as somebody that had

01:29:29.570 --> 01:29:33.300
the distinction of being a nominee for the United States Senate.

01:29:34.400 --> 01:29:46.110
I just think, you know, that's a spot of distinction in government that I would love to see.

01:29:46.110 --> 01:29:52.618
We've managed to get a lot of African Americans in the House of Representatives,

01:29:53.287 --> 01:29:56.550
but it's few and far between that we get in the United States Senate.

01:29:56.550 --> 01:29:59.231
It's always below that 12% threshold.

01:30:00.598 --> 01:30:04.143
So anytime I see black folks running for the United States Senate,

01:30:04.334 --> 01:30:06.343
I get excited and I'm hopeful.

01:30:07.006 --> 01:30:12.767
So the young man that's running in Alabama is Everett Wess.

01:30:13.126 --> 01:30:20.073
He's an attorney in Alabama, and he secured a Democratic nomination last week.

01:30:20.683 --> 01:30:27.077
And there's a young sister in Oklahoma who is in the runoff.

01:30:27.763 --> 01:30:32.838
But she was, and she was the leading vote getter going into the runoff.

01:30:32.838 --> 01:30:34.869
Her name is N'kiyla Thomas.

01:30:35.523 --> 01:30:42.267
And so whenever that, I didn't get a chance to check and see when the runoff is going to be.

01:30:42.607 --> 01:30:47.798
I would assume it's going to be pretty close considering, you know.

01:30:48.583 --> 01:30:51.738
We're only about, I think five months away from the general.

01:30:51.738 --> 01:30:56.594
So it's probably going to be in July or August, no later than August.

01:30:56.785 --> 01:30:59.788
So congratulations, Ms. Thomas,

01:30:59.788 --> 01:31:04.719
on at least getting to the runoff and hopefully you can finish it on out,

01:31:05.419 --> 01:31:10.247
because we had some people as a young lady that a lot of you know,

01:31:10.723 --> 01:31:13.507
she was one of the TV judges, Judge Penny.

01:31:14.170 --> 01:31:21.138
Her full name is Penny Byron Reynolds and Judge Penny officially got the nomination

01:31:21.138 --> 01:31:24.110
to run for Secretary of State here in the state of Georgia.

01:31:24.819 --> 01:31:29.508
So I want to congratulate her on that. And then there was a couple of episodes

01:31:29.508 --> 01:31:33.518
ago, I was highlighting people that had been on the show that was running for

01:31:33.518 --> 01:31:35.897
office. And there was one glaring omission.

01:31:37.417 --> 01:31:42.367
Prince George, I think that's right, Prince George County Commissioner Walla

01:31:42.367 --> 01:31:45.744
Blagay, she is running for Congress.

01:31:46.394 --> 01:31:50.987
And I failed to mention that when I was highlighting people that had been on

01:31:50.987 --> 01:31:53.684
the show that's running for something this cycle.

01:31:54.365 --> 01:31:58.653
And so I wanted to give her her flowers and wish her well.

01:31:59.251 --> 01:32:02.557
I don't think Maryland's had their primary yet. I got to double check to make

01:32:02.557 --> 01:32:04.947
sure because D.C. just had theirs.

01:32:05.541 --> 01:32:10.337
So, you know, whether you were still running or not, I just wanted to acknowledge

01:32:10.337 --> 01:32:13.492
the fact that you stepped out there to run for Congress.

01:32:14.444 --> 01:32:19.500
So it's pretty cool that I've got guests that are out there, you know.

01:32:20.772 --> 01:32:24.762
Having the honor of talking to them on this podcast. And now they're out there

01:32:24.762 --> 01:32:28.852
running for Congress. And it'd be really cool if she could get on there too

01:32:29.232 --> 01:32:34.040
and join Dr. Jasmine Clark and some other folks.

01:32:34.677 --> 01:32:39.181
And DC just had, like I said, DC just had their primary.

01:32:39.854 --> 01:32:47.132
And so this is the first election in a long time that the citizens of DC had

01:32:47.132 --> 01:32:50.672
to elect a new mayor and a new delegate.

01:32:51.832 --> 01:32:57.272
As you know, D.C. has a non-voting delegate. They have representation,

01:32:57.272 --> 01:33:00.892
but they don't have a voice, which is one of the reasons why D.C.

01:33:00.892 --> 01:33:06.041
Statehood is still an issue we need to have a discussion about and get behind.

01:33:06.714 --> 01:33:14.871
But this is the first election they've had in a long, long time where both of those seats were up.

01:33:15.799 --> 01:33:21.286
And so you're going to see some new faces in the D.C. area in leadership.

01:33:21.764 --> 01:33:28.012
They've got it. They still got it right. As of right now, there's still a runoff, I believe.

01:33:28.352 --> 01:33:32.587
I hadn't I didn't get a chance to check before I started recording to see if they called it.

01:33:32.855 --> 01:33:36.572
But the two favorites that.

01:33:38.045 --> 01:33:45.592
Were in the league and then, but they did have somebody went outright for the

01:33:45.592 --> 01:33:49.492
delegate thing, delegate position, at least the Democrat nomination.

01:33:49.492 --> 01:33:53.542
And then they've got to go, you know, in the general in November because they

01:33:53.542 --> 01:33:54.838
have Republican opponents.

01:33:55.151 --> 01:33:59.414
And this is the first year I think that they did the rank choice.

01:33:59.536 --> 01:34:02.897
So that's why it's taking a while for the DC numbers to come in.

01:34:04.299 --> 01:34:08.503
Because they've got to count all the people, the first place ballots first,

01:34:09.326 --> 01:34:12.629
and then they got to go back and see who finished, you know,

01:34:12.629 --> 01:34:16.909
who was the second choice and who was the third draft. They eliminate so many

01:34:16.909 --> 01:34:19.272
people. So that's why they haven't called it yet.

01:34:19.870 --> 01:34:23.999
And it might end up that it's not going to be a runoff. It might,

01:34:24.421 --> 01:34:26.267
it might be a winner in that one.

01:34:26.587 --> 01:34:29.106
Once, excuse me, once it's all said and done.

01:34:29.983 --> 01:34:34.549
Anyway, so I just wanted to acknowledge that part. And, you know,

01:34:34.549 --> 01:34:38.619
Grace, Grace kind of told you all the names, but I just wanted to highlight

01:34:38.619 --> 01:34:39.826
those particular races.

01:34:40.507 --> 01:34:45.646
Let's get into the things that have kind of pissed me off. Right.

01:34:46.567 --> 01:34:53.819
So the first thing is something that may not have hit your radar yet.

01:34:53.819 --> 01:34:58.249
But if you're in the Chicago area, you you've heard it for sure.

01:34:58.249 --> 01:35:05.315
And that the city of Evanston, Illinois, was the first city in America to do,

01:35:06.210 --> 01:35:09.772
something towards reparations, right?

01:35:10.473 --> 01:35:17.109
And the way that they set it up was that they wanted to, they created a program

01:35:17.109 --> 01:35:23.590
to allow Black residents to be able to afford houses in Evanston.

01:35:24.708 --> 01:35:31.349
And the city gives X amount of dollars and, you know, for that first purchase,

01:35:32.189 --> 01:35:37.469
either for like a down payment or whatever, cover closing costs, whatever the deal is.

01:35:37.469 --> 01:35:41.135
But if you're a black resident and there are certain criteria.

01:35:42.648 --> 01:35:49.944
You know, if you're if you're, you know, a native of Evanston and you're African-American,

01:35:50.547 --> 01:35:52.045
that you qualify for a program.

01:35:53.079 --> 01:35:56.268
So, you know, and that's been going on for a few years.

01:35:56.268 --> 01:36:02.208
As a matter of fact, one of the guests I had, Ted Williams, he serves as on

01:36:02.208 --> 01:36:07.718
the board for or the commission, I guess, for the state of Illinois doing reparations.

01:36:07.718 --> 01:36:12.266
So he had a lot to do with that. But the city council person,

01:36:12.423 --> 01:36:16.534
it was a young lady, I can't remember her name right off, who introduced it.

01:36:16.871 --> 01:36:19.643
She's on that same commission with Brother Williams.

01:36:20.381 --> 01:36:25.117
And so, you know, because it was the first model.

01:36:25.941 --> 01:36:35.450
And the mayor of Evanston, who was the mayor when this reparations program started,

01:36:36.146 --> 01:36:42.288
he is on the path to be the next congressman for the 9th District of Illinois.

01:36:42.288 --> 01:36:48.372
Now, this is the one where the young lady, he beat the young lady who got arrested.

01:36:49.579 --> 01:36:53.063
Katie Abagula, I think her name is.

01:36:53.790 --> 01:36:59.318
And I know I'm probably butchering her last name, but you've seen her on Instagram and all that.

01:36:59.318 --> 01:37:05.408
And she's a young lady that got arrested at one of the Illinois detention centers,

01:37:05.408 --> 01:37:08.258
protests and all that, the same detention center where they,

01:37:08.258 --> 01:37:12.960
like, you know, like gassed the priest and all those kind of things.

01:37:13.509 --> 01:37:20.288
But Daniel, Daniel beat her in the election, in the primary.

01:37:20.288 --> 01:37:25.071
And so he's he's on his way to be the next congressman for that district,

01:37:25.696 --> 01:37:33.098
which is why I think this next thing, the thing I'm getting ready to mention is happening.

01:37:33.761 --> 01:37:38.708
So now the Trump administration, for some reason, has decided that.

01:37:40.839 --> 01:37:48.102
They want to challenge the, y'all excuse me, they want to challenge the program,

01:37:48.762 --> 01:37:51.810
that's been out there for a while. As a matter of fact, I think it was out,

01:37:52.547 --> 01:37:54.054
you know, during his first term.

01:37:55.230 --> 01:37:59.201
It may not be that old, but it's been around, it's been going on for a while.

01:37:59.555 --> 01:38:08.939
And so now they decided that they want to intervene in a lawsuit and challenge

01:38:08.939 --> 01:38:11.310
it and say that it's reverse discrimination.

01:38:12.131 --> 01:38:19.829
You know, it's like, again, I know there's a lot of black folks that vote Republican

01:38:19.829 --> 01:38:22.230
or run as Republican and all that stuff.

01:38:23.069 --> 01:38:26.308
But it's just getting harder and harder for me to understand why.

01:38:27.015 --> 01:38:35.539
Right. You know, I just I mean, how much how much disrespect does it take for

01:38:35.539 --> 01:38:39.369
you not to want to be in proximity of that?

01:38:40.194 --> 01:38:43.649
You know, now, if you understand the history of American politics,

01:38:43.649 --> 01:38:49.989
you understand that black folks were Republican in mass once voting.

01:38:49.989 --> 01:38:56.171
They were eligible to vote and it switched over to the Democratic Party over time.

01:38:56.939 --> 01:39:02.326
And then, of course, a lot of Southern Democrats became Republicans, right?

01:39:03.017 --> 01:39:08.904
And we already had that conversation last week about the Southern influence on American politics.

01:39:09.896 --> 01:39:17.689
But, you know, when you have a group of people who just continue on a regular

01:39:17.689 --> 01:39:20.722
basis to just constantly try to,

01:39:21.543 --> 01:39:26.882
disrespect you, It just seems like at some point you ought to say, hey, stop that.

01:39:27.516 --> 01:39:30.366
You know, if you're in the party and you're black.

01:39:32.731 --> 01:39:37.391
You need to tell them, hey, you're stepping on toes.

01:39:38.530 --> 01:39:45.534
That's not the fight you want to get in. You know, and this whole reverse discrimination nonsense.

01:39:47.131 --> 01:39:51.661
I don't think there's anything in the law that says that people in Evanston

01:39:51.661 --> 01:39:53.431
that are white can't buy a house.

01:39:54.383 --> 01:39:58.761
I don't believe that. You know, the majority of the government in Evanston is

01:39:58.761 --> 01:40:01.359
white that voted for this program.

01:40:02.993 --> 01:40:07.349
You know, it's not a majority black city by any stretch of the imagination.

01:40:07.535 --> 01:40:09.707
And neither is Chicago, believe it or not.

01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:17.103
But nonetheless, these these folks in the, I guess, the Department of Justice

01:40:17.103 --> 01:40:20.456
decided that black folks shouldn't get anything.

01:40:21.234 --> 01:40:28.047
Right. And so for all those folks that, you know, been pushing the reparations,

01:40:28.709 --> 01:40:35.481
agenda, It would seem like I think, you know, which side is on your side and which side is not.

01:40:36.122 --> 01:40:40.470
Now, you can make the arguments that the Democrats have given you lip service.

01:40:40.812 --> 01:40:43.759
I feel you on that. But they're not taking you to court.

01:40:44.762 --> 01:40:54.227
And so I need you, you know, to acknowledge that and understand who is on your side and who ain't.

01:40:55.102 --> 01:41:00.473
You know, there's with this action that the Trump administration is taking to

01:41:00.473 --> 01:41:07.246
stop the very first reparations program, government sanction program in a country,

01:41:08.024 --> 01:41:09.471
that's been going on for a while.

01:41:10.301 --> 01:41:14.407
They've decided in an election year that they want to shut it down.

01:41:15.092 --> 01:41:17.805
They won't be successful. I don't think.

01:41:18.750 --> 01:41:21.950
If it gets all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, God only knows.

01:41:22.561 --> 01:41:28.133
Which by the way start paying attention this week because the Supreme Court

01:41:28.133 --> 01:41:33.923
is going to start rolling out some decisions they actually kind of started last week but yeah.

01:41:34.988 --> 01:41:39.588
I think it's pretty clear if you are an advocate for reparations,

01:41:39.588 --> 01:41:40.898
what side you need to be on.

01:41:41.757 --> 01:41:44.748
And I'll just leave it at that because, you know, a lot of folks,

01:41:44.748 --> 01:41:48.259
well, we ain't voting for anybody. No, bruh.

01:41:48.871 --> 01:41:55.608
If you don't vote for anybody, then you have no you have no leverage to push for the issue.

01:41:56.564 --> 01:41:59.443
And since it seemed like you are having trouble picking a side,

01:42:00.046 --> 01:42:02.269
the Trump administration has picked a side for you.

01:42:03.089 --> 01:42:08.232
So if y'all serious about it, then that needs to be reflected in the vote.

01:42:08.935 --> 01:42:12.188
That's all I'm saying. Don't sit there and say, well, you know,

01:42:12.188 --> 01:42:17.998
Democrats hadn't, bruh, again, the Democrats are not suing to stop the only

01:42:17.998 --> 01:42:19.147
program that's out there.

01:42:19.799 --> 01:42:22.114
That's actually been helping some black people.

01:42:23.533 --> 01:42:25.715
Do we want to have more? Of course we do.

01:42:28.135 --> 01:42:31.764
Anyway, so that's, I'm going to leave it there on that one.

01:42:31.927 --> 01:42:36.688
I just, you know, I just get tired of people trying to find an excuse to be

01:42:36.688 --> 01:42:42.778
apathetic, you know, and leaning on an issue as a crutch instead of manning

01:42:42.778 --> 01:42:46.900
and woman, you know, womaning up and picking a side.

01:42:47.885 --> 01:42:50.248
And then once you pick that side, hold that side accountable.

01:42:52.168 --> 01:42:57.321
Excuse me. I mean, that's that's how we do that in the in the political game.

01:42:57.915 --> 01:43:02.308
So just thought I'd throw that out there. Now, this whole thing,

01:43:02.788 --> 01:43:04.885
let me tell you about this guy, right?

01:43:05.018 --> 01:43:14.429
So I didn't watch the spectacle at the White House, the Freedom 250 UFC fight. I didn't watch that.

01:43:15.732 --> 01:43:18.162
You know, some people say, well, I don't have Paramount Plus anyway,

01:43:18.162 --> 01:43:19.685
so I couldn't watch it, and that's fine.

01:43:20.328 --> 01:43:25.015
I have Paramount Plus because there's some shows I like that's on there.

01:43:26.420 --> 01:43:30.105
But I didn't, so I could have watched it, and I didn't.

01:43:31.036 --> 01:43:34.537
Because I'm not that big of a UFC guy. See, I'm a boxing guy.

01:43:35.332 --> 01:43:39.442
You know, let's duke it out with our hands. You ain't got to,

01:43:39.442 --> 01:43:42.452
like, grab me or kick me or anything like that.

01:43:42.452 --> 01:43:46.085
But, you know, that's just, I could go to a bar and see that for free,

01:43:46.672 --> 01:43:50.814
you know, at least when I was younger, for sure. I don't want to pay to see that.

01:43:51.712 --> 01:43:56.909
You know, in my role in law enforcement, I've had to do security at UFC events.

01:43:57.971 --> 01:44:06.249
And, you know, the undercards are just flat out terrible because these are not the top of the line.

01:44:06.896 --> 01:44:13.755
And they have so many fights lined up that, you know, you're there for like,

01:44:14.389 --> 01:44:20.122
three, four hours, you know, by the time the main event happens.

01:44:20.901 --> 01:44:24.742
So, you know, since this was set up for TV and, you know, it was on the White

01:44:24.742 --> 01:44:28.842
House, it was a very short card, if you want to understand.

01:44:28.842 --> 01:44:34.784
But, you know, I'm not that big of a fan, but that's OK, you know,

01:44:35.489 --> 01:44:41.212
because I can say that during my legislative tenure, I'm one of the reasons

01:44:41.212 --> 01:44:46.223
why it's legal, because all of us that was in the legislature 20 some years ago,

01:44:46.935 --> 01:44:52.101
were debating whether we were going to allow these mixed martial arts fights to even exist.

01:44:52.901 --> 01:44:58.794
Because all of the states, especially the states that have boxing commissions.

01:45:00.168 --> 01:45:03.067
Which I think every state does, you know.

01:45:04.460 --> 01:45:10.070
We had to give those commissions the authority to legalize the fights because

01:45:10.070 --> 01:45:15.412
prior to that, people were just doing it and there was no regulation,

01:45:15.860 --> 01:45:17.340
you know, as far as, you know,

01:45:18.093 --> 01:45:20.350
medical conditions and all that stuff.

01:45:20.350 --> 01:45:26.188
And so you got to have some regulation with those kind of combat sports.

01:45:26.954 --> 01:45:34.950
And so those of us that we're in in the state legislature during that time you

01:45:34.950 --> 01:45:40.154
can thank us for legalizing it even if we're not big fans right so anyway,

01:45:41.079 --> 01:45:44.255
nobody has talked about the fights.

01:45:45.880 --> 01:45:50.660
Since the event happened usually when you have a UFC fight you know especially

01:45:50.660 --> 01:45:54.840
if you've got some high profile people or you know undefeated people in there,

01:45:55.496 --> 01:46:00.535
people talk about oh well you know they're still undefeated and all, you know, he did, he,

01:46:01.780 --> 01:46:04.511
finished him in an arm bar and all that, you know.

01:46:05.922 --> 01:46:10.769
It was no, nobody was talking about that. All they were talking about was this guy named Josh Hokett.

01:46:11.014 --> 01:46:14.930
And I guess I'm saying his name right. I don't really care, you know,

01:46:15.839 --> 01:46:21.457
because I'm not going to get in a fight with him because, you know,

01:46:22.122 --> 01:46:27.329
if he wants to start something with me, I'm going to use my Second Amendment right on him.

01:46:28.420 --> 01:46:32.501
I mean, it's just, I mean, you know, his hands, his feet are weapons.

01:46:32.919 --> 01:46:39.490
And so it's like, yeah, so I'm not trained in that. So I am trained in my second

01:46:39.490 --> 01:46:42.942
amendment rights. So, you know, I'll just leave it at that.

01:46:43.180 --> 01:46:51.250
But, you know, he decided now here's this guy. Now he's ranked number five in

01:46:51.250 --> 01:46:56.153
the heavyweight division in UFC. So he's one of the top guys, right?

01:46:56.913 --> 01:46:59.450
And he's undefeated.

01:47:00.626 --> 01:47:06.798
So you would think he won his fight. So you would think that would be what we

01:47:06.798 --> 01:47:09.978
were talking about, that we were going to talk about it from a truly sports angle.

01:47:09.978 --> 01:47:13.378
But no, he decides he wants to get up there.

01:47:13.378 --> 01:47:19.648
And now this is after he puked at the weigh-in at the Lincoln Memorial,

01:47:19.648 --> 01:47:25.188
which is why it was a bad idea to do the weigh-in at a national monument like

01:47:25.188 --> 01:47:27.314
the Lincoln Memorial anyway.

01:47:28.152 --> 01:47:34.248
Why? Because Josh, Josh is the reason why people didn't want this event to happen at the White House.

01:47:35.140 --> 01:47:39.207
Right. He puked at the weigh in at the Lincoln Memorial.

01:47:40.176 --> 01:47:45.041
So I guess he figured he needed to do something else to get attention,

01:47:45.645 --> 01:47:49.788
not just win the fight and stay undefeated and stay ranked number five in the

01:47:49.788 --> 01:47:52.225
in his weight division. That wasn't enough.

01:47:53.045 --> 01:48:02.020
He had to turn around and call the former first lady, my homegirl, Michelle Obama, a man.

01:48:02.986 --> 01:48:10.387
Now, this is not the first time he's done that. He did it in 2022 in a public event. He said that.

01:48:11.039 --> 01:48:15.258
And he's one of them people on social media and all that stuff.

01:48:16.319 --> 01:48:18.648
Whatever chat room UFC fighters go to.

01:48:18.648 --> 01:48:27.165
They, he, he, he's, he's basically the, the male, the UFC version of Nancy Mace, right?

01:48:27.757 --> 01:48:33.748
He doesn't like transgender people, you know, and, and he has said before he's,

01:48:33.748 --> 01:48:40.036
he, he, all those 10 hat right wing conspiracy stuff. He's down with that. He's that dude.

01:48:40.842 --> 01:48:46.464
And, you know, some people are trying to say he's Latino. I think he's more AAPI.

01:48:47.038 --> 01:48:51.718
Doesn't matter. He's an asshole. That's what he is. That's his nationality. Right? Right.

01:48:53.002 --> 01:49:01.367
And, you know, I just think people like that need the Ernie Terrell treatment. What do I mean by that?

01:49:02.296 --> 01:49:08.418
So, for those of you who are true boxing fans, especially if you're from Chicago,

01:49:09.231 --> 01:49:13.527
there was this young heavyweight fighter named Ernie Terrell.

01:49:14.198 --> 01:49:18.970
And he was considered up and coming and all that. But at the same time,

01:49:19.672 --> 01:49:25.802
there was a young man who had just won the heavyweight title initially as Cassius Clay.

01:49:26.302 --> 01:49:31.281
We now know him as Muhammad Ali as he changed his name after he won the title.

01:49:32.300 --> 01:49:35.602
So Terrell was like either his first or second.

01:49:36.166 --> 01:49:41.303
Well, it had to be at least his second defense because he had a rematch with Liston.

01:49:41.939 --> 01:49:46.642
And I want to say either this was the next fight or the fight after that in

01:49:46.642 --> 01:49:47.959
which he fought Terrell.

01:49:48.480 --> 01:49:51.982
And, you know, everybody thought that was going to be a good match because Terrell,

01:49:52.520 --> 01:50:00.502
he was a young guy, had good punching power, came up through the Chicago boxing circuit as an amateur.

01:50:00.502 --> 01:50:07.382
So New York City and Chicago were considered like, and Detroit were considered

01:50:07.382 --> 01:50:08.548
like the meccas of boxing.

01:50:09.052 --> 01:50:12.018
Ali was definitely an anomaly coming from Louisville, Kentucky.

01:50:12.669 --> 01:50:14.382
So they thought it would be a good fight.

01:50:15.264 --> 01:50:21.899
Well, Mr. Terrell decided he wanted to try to get in Muhammad Ali's head.

01:50:22.498 --> 01:50:27.975
And so he wouldn't call him Muhammad Ali. He would always refer to him as Cassius Clay.

01:50:28.782 --> 01:50:34.112
And there was the classic confrontation. Of course, Howard Cosell was the instigator

01:50:34.112 --> 01:50:35.249
because he was the reporter.

01:50:35.961 --> 01:50:41.902
And Howard asked Terrell, why don't you call him Muhammad Ali?

01:50:41.902 --> 01:50:45.392
Which Muhammad Ali came back and said, that's right. My name's Ali,

01:50:45.392 --> 01:50:47.876
Muhammad Ali. Say my name.

01:50:48.502 --> 01:50:52.265
And Terrell looked at Cosell and said, his mama named him Clay.

01:50:53.047 --> 01:50:54.213
I'm going to call him Clay.

01:50:55.676 --> 01:51:01.327
So if you saw the movie Ali, if you haven't seen the actual fight on tape,

01:51:01.960 --> 01:51:07.106
if you've seen the movie Ali, they depicted that fight because that was a moment,

01:51:07.472 --> 01:51:09.167
not only in sports, but in the culture.

01:51:09.979 --> 01:51:16.906
And Muhammad Ali said afterwards that he deliberately wanted to beat this guy

01:51:16.906 --> 01:51:20.211
up. He did not want to knock him out. He wanted to punish him.

01:51:21.152 --> 01:51:25.574
And every time Ali got a clean shot in and looked like he hurt Terrell,

01:51:26.436 --> 01:51:29.043
He would ask the question, what's my name?

01:51:30.023 --> 01:51:35.656
And later on in the fight, he was like, say my name. Right. Now,

01:51:35.656 --> 01:51:37.161
I don't know if Terrell ever did.

01:51:39.516 --> 01:51:45.253
During that fight, but the message was sent. It's like, you got to go disrespect me like that.

01:51:45.928 --> 01:51:48.606
But, you know, if you are, you're going to have to back that up.

01:51:48.606 --> 01:51:54.196
And clearly, Mr. Terrell was not in the position, talent-wise or otherwise,

01:51:54.196 --> 01:51:56.451
to back that up. And Muhammad Ali won the fight.

01:51:57.516 --> 01:52:01.126
So I think that's what Josh Hokut's got to go through. I think he needs to have

01:52:01.126 --> 01:52:06.821
an early Terrell moment. I think now the last two or three guys he beat were

01:52:06.984 --> 01:52:09.323
black folks. So I don't know.

01:52:11.174 --> 01:52:17.396
I i i've been telling you know i know john jones is kind of like in the doghouse

01:52:17.396 --> 01:52:19.971
he might actually be retired retired for real,

01:52:20.837 --> 01:52:26.556
but you know if i was dana white i would have called john jones who's considered

01:52:26.936 --> 01:52:30.266
one of the greatest ufc fighters ever and say hey man,

01:52:31.603 --> 01:52:37.063
I need you to fight Josh Hogan. I want you to see, one, we want to see if he's

01:52:37.063 --> 01:52:40.399
legit because he's undefeated. And two.

01:52:42.443 --> 01:52:45.483
I need somebody to kind of put him in his place.

01:52:46.140 --> 01:52:50.523
Because even Dana White said afterwards that that was uncalled for, right?

01:52:51.144 --> 01:52:56.553
And one of the biggest promoters of USC in the podcast world,

01:52:56.553 --> 01:53:01.311
the guy that's over Barstool Sports, he condemned it as well.

01:53:01.515 --> 01:53:02.878
Now, the White House did not.

01:53:03.326 --> 01:53:06.895
I guess they were too busy trying to get their lawsuit together against the folks in Evanston.

01:53:07.744 --> 01:53:15.324
But they haven't or covered their tracks for the farce of a war that they conducted against Iran.

01:53:15.978 --> 01:53:21.113
But they haven't said anything other than, oh, it was a great event.

01:53:21.113 --> 01:53:23.305
Did you see the planes flying over?

01:53:24.129 --> 01:53:29.103
Which was kind of a cool highlight. I have to admit that was cost us a lot of

01:53:29.103 --> 01:53:34.503
taxpayer money for that. But it was kind of a cool visual to see those jets

01:53:34.503 --> 01:53:36.878
flying over the White House. I would have to admit that.

01:53:37.647 --> 01:53:40.393
But that's all the White House would talk about. They weren't talking about

01:53:40.393 --> 01:53:43.667
what this guy, they wouldn't condemn what Josh said.

01:53:44.503 --> 01:53:47.793
So if I was Dana, I'd call John Jones out of retirement and say,

01:53:47.793 --> 01:53:53.639
man, might need you to give him the Ernie Terrell treatment. Right.

01:53:54.902 --> 01:53:59.432
Kind of bring him down a notch. That's what it's going to have to take.

01:53:59.432 --> 01:54:01.460
It's just going to have to be somebody in the ring.

01:54:03.662 --> 01:54:08.669
The next fighter should have Michelle Obama on his trunks or whatever,

01:54:09.902 --> 01:54:13.248
the name Michelle Obama in the trunk, and just beat his brains out.

01:54:14.110 --> 01:54:17.402
I mean, that's the only way he's going to learn any kind of humility,

01:54:19.395 --> 01:54:24.945
anything, because Michelle can't do it, You know, even though she was an athlete,

01:54:25.801 --> 01:54:28.731
you know, she's a woman and she's not going to fight that guy.

01:54:29.274 --> 01:54:32.552
But somebody just needs to give him the Ernie Terrell treatment and just and

01:54:32.552 --> 01:54:39.298
just whip his butt and just bring him down to earth because his biggest problem is hubris.

01:54:39.926 --> 01:54:43.402
He's undefeated. I think he was a pro football player at one time.

01:54:43.402 --> 01:54:46.102
And so he didn't he didn't stick

01:54:46.102 --> 01:54:51.017
with pro football. So he went into mixed martial arts, which is fine.

01:54:51.781 --> 01:54:57.911
You know, if he wasn't an asshole, nobody, everybody would be celebrating the fact that he's 10 and 0.

01:54:58.701 --> 01:55:01.736
But because he is an asshole, we're talking about that.

01:55:02.339 --> 01:55:10.884
So I don't watch a lot of UFC fights, but I will watch the highlights if they say he lost.

01:55:12.610 --> 01:55:16.601
I'll be happy about that because there's some people that deserve that.

01:55:17.453 --> 01:55:24.560
If you don't have enough class and respect for humanity, we talked about that

01:55:24.560 --> 01:55:28.169
in Justin's interview, you know, dignity and humanity.

01:55:28.893 --> 01:55:33.915
If you don't understand that concept, you know, you're going to have problems.

01:55:34.714 --> 01:55:38.820
You're going to have like people like me talk about you and you may get somebody

01:55:38.820 --> 01:55:42.769
to step in the ring and show you some, you know, humility.

01:55:43.609 --> 01:55:46.805
So, you know, we'll see.

01:55:47.676 --> 01:55:53.510
I just think, you know, again, for these people that's on the fence and think

01:55:53.510 --> 01:55:58.166
that there's something redeemable about a lot of these people, it's not.

01:55:59.494 --> 01:56:03.803
I think if people really understood, because a lot of folks don't get it,

01:56:04.432 --> 01:56:14.810
if people really understood that the concept of this nation was that it was to be created not from,

01:56:15.754 --> 01:56:19.498
some kind of divine right, like a kingdom or anything like that.

01:56:20.263 --> 01:56:28.627
It was an idea that people can govern themselves. They don't need to be ruled over.

01:56:29.234 --> 01:56:30.720
They can govern themselves.

01:56:31.470 --> 01:56:34.065
They don't need to be controlled by a religion.

01:56:34.844 --> 01:56:36.347
They can govern themselves.

01:56:37.234 --> 01:56:44.190
You know, I just, you know, I don't know why in human history there's always

01:56:44.190 --> 01:56:52.187
that flaw that it seems like, well, we just got to strong-arm people to do what we want them to do.

01:56:52.547 --> 01:56:56.993
No, you have to educate. If you want to strong-arm people, educate them.

01:56:57.933 --> 01:57:03.924
Give them the full scope. Give them every avenue and resource available.

01:57:04.460 --> 01:57:09.789
Make it so that they can learn at home and learn in the classroom, right? You just got to.

01:57:10.936 --> 01:57:16.886
You got to do better. It's just, you know, the only way we can stop authoritarianism

01:57:16.886 --> 01:57:20.608
and all that stuff is people have to be educated.

01:57:21.268 --> 01:57:24.785
If you educate the masses, the masses will not be controlled.

01:57:25.532 --> 01:57:28.339
Right? So, you know.

01:57:30.535 --> 01:57:35.962
I just don't understand people who still think that it's a both sides conversation.

01:57:36.838 --> 01:57:41.830
It's not. not for rational, educated people.

01:57:42.859 --> 01:57:46.052
And you don't have to have an Ivy League degree to be educated.

01:57:46.998 --> 01:57:50.660
You don't even have to have a college degree to be educated, right?

01:57:51.380 --> 01:57:57.035
Just common sense would tell you that this is not a both sides issue.

01:57:57.981 --> 01:58:02.396
If you're a decent person that believes in the dignity and humanity of human

01:58:02.396 --> 01:58:04.610
beings, it's not a both sides issue.

01:58:05.202 --> 01:58:11.379
You got folks that don't give a damn about people, and then you got us, the people.

01:58:12.668 --> 01:58:16.346
And we've got to stop buying their bullshit,

01:58:18.411 --> 01:58:22.056
and put them in positions of power. I've said this before on the podcast.

01:58:22.056 --> 01:58:29.208
If there's a guy that is against the government, running for government office, do not vote for them.

01:58:29.947 --> 01:58:33.981
If they're saying, I want to destroy the government.

01:58:34.838 --> 01:58:38.063
And they're applying for a government job, don't hire them.

01:58:39.014 --> 01:58:43.135
Because if you bring them in, they're going to try to destroy the government.

01:58:44.179 --> 01:58:48.852
Project 2025 is the guidebook to destroy the government.

01:58:49.878 --> 01:58:53.895
And people voted for the guy that was following the guidebook.

01:58:55.479 --> 01:59:00.101
You just got to stop that. You know what I'm saying? If you're running for office,

01:59:00.686 --> 01:59:05.892
and you're against the government, then just know that if everybody else votes for you, I won't.

01:59:06.798 --> 01:59:10.607
Because I don't think you should be in a job that you're trying to destroy.

01:59:11.757 --> 01:59:16.360
Nobody would hire somebody in their company if they say, I'm going to rob it at the interview.

01:59:17.356 --> 01:59:20.835
I'm going to burn the building down. They won't hire that person.

01:59:21.601 --> 01:59:25.943
So why do we elect people who say they want to destroy the government.

01:59:26.914 --> 01:59:34.538
Now, if you want to change government, okay. If you want to make it more responsive to people, okay.

01:59:35.454 --> 01:59:38.519
But these folks are, oh, we got to tear it down and all this stuff.

01:59:38.902 --> 01:59:43.739
And the only reason why they're mad is because white people aren't the only

01:59:43.739 --> 01:59:44.879
ones benefiting from it.

01:59:45.836 --> 01:59:53.019
That's it. When they see somebody looks like me, somebody from other or ethnic

01:59:53.019 --> 01:59:55.089
cultures other than white benefiting

01:59:55.089 --> 01:59:59.842
from government, they're angry and they want to tear it all down.

02:00:00.511 --> 02:00:03.796
They'd rather tear down. They'd rather cancel an election.

02:00:04.455 --> 02:00:08.949
They'd rather have an insurrection than allow a government of the people,

02:00:08.949 --> 02:00:11.711
by the people, and for the people to stand.

02:00:13.088 --> 02:00:17.108
That's where they are. And so anybody that's against that concept,

02:00:18.073 --> 02:00:23.480
anybody that keeps talking about this Christian national, all this stuff, stop that.

02:00:24.415 --> 02:00:30.190
Stop voting for these people. Vote for people that give a damn about us,

02:00:30.911 --> 02:00:36.408
that want to exhibit some real American leadership and make decisions and policies

02:00:36.408 --> 02:00:38.288
to take this country to the next level.

02:00:39.037 --> 02:00:44.700
People that understand the humanity of other humans. vote for them.

02:00:45.651 --> 02:00:50.498
Stop voting for these slick talking comments. One of the rules I used to have

02:00:50.498 --> 02:00:52.121
in the jail, and I'll let y'all go on this.

02:00:52.894 --> 02:00:57.643
One of the rules I used to have in the jail is that you need to talk slow, clear, and loud.

02:00:58.693 --> 02:01:03.077
Because if you got an inmate that's talking really, really fast,

02:01:04.069 --> 02:01:05.172
they trying to get over on you.

02:01:05.323 --> 02:01:08.858
If you're talking to somebody that's like, you know, you hear them yelling from

02:01:08.858 --> 02:01:10.565
one end of the pod to the other.

02:01:11.221 --> 02:01:13.688
But then when you ask one question, they start mumbling.

02:01:15.691 --> 02:01:21.963
No, I need to understand what you're saying. I need you to take your time and say it, right?

02:01:22.091 --> 02:01:26.890
And I need you to be loud when you say it. Loud enough for me to hear it.

02:01:27.779 --> 02:01:31.768
It was just a rule. Because I knew, especially the ones that were talking slick,

02:01:31.768 --> 02:01:34.498
they get to talking real fast, but I would probably say, no,

02:01:34.498 --> 02:01:37.681
bro, you talking too fast. I'm going to move on.

02:01:39.104 --> 02:01:42.880
Because whatever you're trying to get over me, I ain't got time, right?

02:01:43.672 --> 02:01:47.822
So stop listening, you know, stop getting caught up with these slick-talking folks.

02:01:48.930 --> 02:01:54.493
You want plain-talking people. Why do you think Graham Plattner is doing well in Maine?

02:01:55.356 --> 02:01:58.424
Because he's talking plain. You know, people are saying, well,

02:01:58.424 --> 02:02:02.174
he's not really working class, and he's got all these issues with women,

02:02:02.174 --> 02:02:03.294
blah, blah, this, and that.

02:02:04.141 --> 02:02:09.946
We literally have a rapist in the White House, a felon in the White House right now.

02:02:10.930 --> 02:02:14.209
I think the standards are gone. Now, if we want to bring him back,

02:02:14.842 --> 02:02:18.801
I feel you. But you can't use that as an argument right this minute.

02:02:20.966 --> 02:02:26.934
You get it. So, you know, let's do better, y'all.

02:02:28.130 --> 02:02:35.585
Let's stop giving people like Josh and his ilk a platform, you know,

02:02:36.289 --> 02:02:42.620
or just relegate them to the minority of society, right?

02:02:43.539 --> 02:02:46.766
And when I say that, it's like you stay in your lane.

02:02:47.278 --> 02:02:50.074
You're a good fighter, just fight, you know.

02:02:50.114 --> 02:02:57.101
So if your educated guess is that a former first lady is a man,

02:02:57.775 --> 02:02:59.604
we don't need to hear your political commentary.

02:03:00.162 --> 02:03:03.416
You can talk to your friends, but you don't need to be on a national platform,

02:03:04.002 --> 02:03:04.978
if that's what you believe.

02:03:05.870 --> 02:03:11.448
That's just me. You believe the earth is flat? I don't need you in public office.

02:03:12.614 --> 02:03:20.357
I just don't. Ain't got time. Or any other crazy thing that's out there. Right? Ain't got time.

02:03:21.392 --> 02:03:24.799
Now, you can be free to move about the country, as they say at Southwest,

02:03:25.452 --> 02:03:27.176
you know what I'm saying? But I don't want you in leadership.

02:03:28.095 --> 02:03:34.061
I don't want to see you on a national platform. And we got to start treating them like that.

02:03:35.102 --> 02:03:37.514
And that's the only way we're going to move this country forward.

02:03:38.514 --> 02:03:44.364
We got to get to the point where we're committed and educated enough to just

02:03:44.364 --> 02:03:47.418
vote for people who give a damn about other people.

02:03:48.775 --> 02:03:52.635
All right, guys, that's all I got. Thank y'all for listening. Until next time.