Going Forward Featuring Ianta Summers and Dr. Reneé Carr

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.117
Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.

00:00:06.437 --> 00:00:08.977
I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

00:00:09.337 --> 00:00:12.737
If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

00:00:13.277 --> 00:00:19.397
First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash A Moment with Eric Fleming.

00:00:19.757 --> 00:00:24.637
Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

00:00:24.637 --> 00:00:27.937
truth to power and to expand and improve the show.

00:00:28.557 --> 00:00:32.857
Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

00:00:32.857 --> 00:00:35.617
listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

00:00:36.217 --> 00:00:41.897
Third, go to the website, momenteric.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

00:00:42.177 --> 00:00:47.257
leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

00:00:47.877 --> 00:00:51.857
Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

00:00:52.257 --> 00:00:56.977
Tell someone else about the podcast. encourage others to listen to the podcast,

00:00:57.297 --> 00:01:02.437
and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

00:01:02.437 --> 00:01:04.197
make this moment a movement.

00:01:04.517 --> 00:01:10.197
Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

00:01:11.517 --> 00:01:16.437
The following program is hosted by the NVG Podcast Network.

00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:56.240
Music.

00:01:26.017 --> 00:01:26.917
Thank you.

00:01:56.357 --> 00:02:02.057
Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.

00:02:02.677 --> 00:02:08.197
And today, as this episode drops, is Inauguration Day.

00:02:08.717 --> 00:02:15.417
It is also the holiday that we celebrate the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

00:02:16.317 --> 00:02:19.037
And that's an interesting juxtaposition.

00:02:20.217 --> 00:02:24.977
Some of us were hoping that this would be a crowning achievement day,

00:02:25.417 --> 00:02:33.097
that the first black woman would be president of the United States being sworn in, but instead...

00:02:34.878 --> 00:02:41.998
It's Donald Trump. And so, considering all that he has espoused and stands for,

00:02:42.278 --> 00:02:49.258
it's really, really interesting that he has to be sworn in on this federal holiday

00:02:49.258 --> 00:02:57.438
to commemorate a man who probably would have been protesting him if he was still alive.

00:02:59.398 --> 00:03:08.538
So, there's that. And this is really the start of something that we are,

00:03:08.758 --> 00:03:12.678
some of us were dreading, but now we're going to have to deal with it.

00:03:12.678 --> 00:03:16.818
And so the two guests I have today are,

00:03:17.918 --> 00:03:21.278
first of all, previous guests, people that have been on the show before,

00:03:21.538 --> 00:03:26.738
but they also kind of have their own unique perspective of how we go forward

00:03:26.738 --> 00:03:32.678
through this moment based on their disciplines and their experience.

00:03:33.518 --> 00:03:39.458
So I think that you will get something totally, totally valuable out of this discussion.

00:03:40.418 --> 00:03:45.198
And a lot of times for the audience, it may be reaffirming.

00:03:45.698 --> 00:03:51.298
But for those of you who are listening and maybe for the first time understanding

00:03:51.298 --> 00:03:55.718
certain viewpoints, I hope that this is enlightening to you.

00:03:56.818 --> 00:04:00.078
So without any further ado, let's go ahead and get this started.

00:04:01.018 --> 00:04:06.058
And as always, we start this show off with a moment of news with Grace Chee.

00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:13.520
Music.

00:04:13.416 --> 00:04:17.976
Thanks, Eric. Hamas and Israel agreed to a ceasefire in Gaza,

00:04:18.216 --> 00:04:21.916
which includes a hostage exchange after 15 months of conflict.

00:04:22.216 --> 00:04:26.796
In his farewell address, President Biden warned of the emergence of an American

00:04:26.796 --> 00:04:29.036
oligarchy among tech billionaires,

00:04:29.316 --> 00:04:33.816
likening it to Eisenhower's concerns about a military-industrial complex and

00:04:33.816 --> 00:04:37.336
emphasizing the threat to democracy and individual rights.

00:04:37.736 --> 00:04:42.656
Special counsel Jack Smith's report accused Donald Trump of a criminal effort

00:04:42.656 --> 00:04:47.876
to overturn the 2020 election, but potential prosecution was hindered by his

00:04:47.876 --> 00:04:52.436
election victory, leading to Smith's resignation after submitting his final report.

00:04:52.716 --> 00:04:57.976
The death toll in the Los Angeles wildfires has risen to 25 as firefighters

00:04:57.976 --> 00:04:59.676
still battle to contain them.

00:05:00.116 --> 00:05:04.816
Pete Hegseth faced tough questioning addressing past controversies but maintained

00:05:04.816 --> 00:05:08.816
Republican support during his confirmation hearing for Secretary of Defense.

00:05:09.356 --> 00:05:14.536
Pam Bondi, nominated for U.S. Attorney General, promised not to target individuals

00:05:14.536 --> 00:05:19.136
based on politics, but avoided specifics on investigating Trump's critics at

00:05:19.136 --> 00:05:20.296
her confirmation hearing.

00:05:20.556 --> 00:05:25.796
A DOJ report revealed that some state and local law enforcement officials participated

00:05:25.796 --> 00:05:29.516
in the 1921 Tulsa, Oklahoma, race massacre.

00:05:29.736 --> 00:05:34.016
The U.S. House passed the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act,

00:05:34.276 --> 00:05:37.936
aimed at banning transgender girls and women from school sports.

00:05:37.936 --> 00:05:43.316
The FCC dismissed complaints regarding ABC News' moderation of the Biden-Trump

00:05:43.316 --> 00:05:48.136
debate and Vice President Harris' appearances on CBS and NBC.

00:05:48.456 --> 00:05:53.676
Elon Musk was sued by the SEC for failing to promptly disclose his significant

00:05:53.676 --> 00:05:58.436
stake in Twitter, which allowed him to buy shares at lower prices before prices

00:05:58.436 --> 00:05:59.996
surged after his disclosure.

00:06:00.396 --> 00:06:06.136
And U.S. job growth surged in December with non-farm payrolls increasing by

00:06:06.136 --> 00:06:11.416
256,000 jobs and the unemployment rate dropping to 4.1%.

00:06:11.416 --> 00:06:15.596
I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

00:06:14.320 --> 00:06:22.320
Music.

00:06:22.456 --> 00:06:25.796
All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.

00:06:26.216 --> 00:06:31.556
And now it is time for my first guest, Ayanta Summers.

00:06:32.396 --> 00:06:38.596
Ayanta Summers is a noted public affairs strategist and Washington insider for over 20 years.

00:06:39.196 --> 00:06:44.796
She has advised mayors, members of Congress, as well as C-suite executives,

00:06:45.036 --> 00:06:48.656
and is recognized as a leader in today's uncertain times.

00:06:48.896 --> 00:06:54.456
She cut her teeth in her career in politics at the private lobbying firm of

00:06:54.456 --> 00:06:59.836
Van Soyak Associates, where she gained valuable skills in federal advocacy.

00:07:00.656 --> 00:07:02.536
Coalition, and relationship building.

00:07:03.334 --> 00:07:07.734
From there, she served four years as a legislative staffer on the Coast Guard

00:07:07.734 --> 00:07:12.914
and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee under the guidance of the Honorable Elijah E.

00:07:13.014 --> 00:07:16.934
Cummings and Committee Chair James Oberstar.

00:07:17.354 --> 00:07:21.414
During her time on the Hill, she developed a niche for maritime transportation.

00:07:21.414 --> 00:07:27.094
While a staffer, she passed the 2010 Coast Guard Reauthorization Act,

00:07:27.774 --> 00:07:32.154
presided over the investigation of the 2009 Deepwater Horizon spill,

00:07:32.394 --> 00:07:37.554
as well as conducted over 25 hearings on the subcommittee during her time on the Hill.

00:07:38.274 --> 00:07:42.514
In 2017, Ms. Summers helped organize the Women's March on Washington,

00:07:42.814 --> 00:07:49.374
the largest protest in American history that spanned a total of 5 million protesters worldwide.

00:07:49.374 --> 00:07:57.134
She and her team was named the 2017 Glamour Women of the Year and later organized

00:07:57.134 --> 00:08:00.134
the 2017 Women's Convention in Detroit,

00:08:00.454 --> 00:08:08.174
where over 5,000 first-time grassroots organizers gathered for two full days of plenaries.

00:08:09.094 --> 00:08:12.794
Breakout sessions, keynote speakers, and celebrity entertainers.

00:08:12.794 --> 00:08:20.074
In 2020, she served as an associate producer on the Biden-Harris campaign paid

00:08:20.074 --> 00:08:25.234
media team, where she helped produce targeted commercials and art installations for the campaign.

00:08:25.514 --> 00:08:30.334
She has worked with leaders and activists in the civil rights community to develop

00:08:30.334 --> 00:08:34.774
key communication strategies, state and federal advocacy plans,

00:08:34.974 --> 00:08:37.434
and international coalition building.

00:08:37.434 --> 00:08:43.654
As a strategist, a variety of issues cross her path where she is able to utilize

00:08:43.654 --> 00:08:47.194
her skills to navigate efficient solutions.

00:08:47.634 --> 00:08:52.934
She is a native of Newport News, Virginia, and is a graduate of University of

00:08:52.934 --> 00:08:56.654
Maryland with a degree in global business and public policy.

00:08:57.014 --> 00:09:02.514
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have again on

00:09:02.514 --> 00:09:05.454
this podcast, Ianta Summers.

00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:15.600
Music.

00:09:16.002 --> 00:09:19.582
All right. Ianta Summers, how are you doing, sister? You doing good?

00:09:20.422 --> 00:09:24.942
Better. I'm blessed. I'm here. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know.

00:09:25.382 --> 00:09:29.342
We going to try to make it. We going to try to make it.

00:09:29.442 --> 00:09:34.822
I'm glad that you agreed to come on because I definitely wanted to get your

00:09:34.822 --> 00:09:37.922
perspective based on your history,

00:09:37.922 --> 00:09:44.442
what you do as far as business and then what you've done as far as an activist.

00:09:44.442 --> 00:09:49.262
As far as what we're approaching, because when this this podcast airs,

00:09:49.382 --> 00:09:51.942
it'll be inauguration day.

00:09:52.382 --> 00:09:59.682
Oh, OK, great. Yeah. So I definitely said, let me let me get this system.

00:09:59.982 --> 00:10:05.562
So as as we as as normal, I'm going to throw a quote at you and I'm going to get your response.

00:10:06.342 --> 00:10:13.082
I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot accept.

00:10:13.682 --> 00:10:15.182
What does that quote mean to you?

00:10:16.162 --> 00:10:21.642
It means that you, like Michelle Obama said, I'm keeping my peace and I'm not

00:10:21.642 --> 00:10:25.422
doing, I'm not overextending myself and being in places where I know I'm not

00:10:25.422 --> 00:10:27.422
welcome or where I feel uncomfortable.

00:10:27.422 --> 00:10:32.582
It means protecting your peace and your space. That's what it means to me.

00:10:33.382 --> 00:10:40.342
All right. So I've added another feature. so i want you to between the number

00:10:40.342 --> 00:10:49.402
between one and 20 give me a number 13 all right so.

00:10:50.362 --> 00:10:56.362
Question number 13 is a feature it's something i picked up in my meetup group

00:10:56.362 --> 00:11:00.822
it's called crossing party lines and somebody put this out here and i said yeah

00:11:00.822 --> 00:11:04.302
this would be a good talking point or an icebreaker.

00:11:04.602 --> 00:11:12.562
So question 13 is, do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?

00:11:13.522 --> 00:11:18.062
It's unbiased to an extent, but not cable news. Cable news is not designed to

00:11:18.062 --> 00:11:20.822
be unbiased. And I think that's what people don't understand.

00:11:21.102 --> 00:11:26.222
Cable news is entertainment. It is not just news. It is opinion.

00:11:26.562 --> 00:11:30.022
And that's why you have so many talking heads on cable news.

00:11:30.022 --> 00:11:36.782
Now, the broadcast networks that have to broadcast into your home, like ABC, PBS, NBC,

00:11:37.502 --> 00:11:45.362
Nightly News, those are less biased, but they also have a veneer of interpretation

00:11:45.362 --> 00:11:46.782
of the human experience.

00:11:47.062 --> 00:11:49.642
So there is going to be some kind of opinion.

00:11:50.002 --> 00:11:54.322
It may be fact-based opinion, but there is some kind of opinion that goes with

00:11:54.322 --> 00:11:56.382
that kind of news reporting as well.

00:11:56.522 --> 00:12:01.162
It's not just straight from the street news reporting. It's interpretation so

00:12:01.162 --> 00:12:06.262
that people understand the nuances of time and space and when things happen.

00:12:07.322 --> 00:12:10.482
Yeah, I tend to I tend to think that.

00:12:11.563 --> 00:12:20.343
You know, the more independent the news source financially, the less bias you would have.

00:12:21.483 --> 00:12:27.883
I just, you know, I mean, all the major networks are owned by major conglomerates.

00:12:28.023 --> 00:12:32.663
And we saw what happened with The Washington Post and Los Angeles Times during

00:12:32.663 --> 00:12:33.843
the election and all that.

00:12:34.043 --> 00:12:38.263
So I just I agree with what you're saying.

00:12:38.263 --> 00:12:46.023
And, you know, they they they have a perspective, but it's it's not totally

00:12:46.023 --> 00:12:51.583
clean to me because there are certain things they won't be able to run because.

00:12:52.183 --> 00:12:59.143
You know, they're they're they're corporate controlled as compared to like Reuters

00:12:59.143 --> 00:13:03.023
or what's another good one?

00:13:03.023 --> 00:13:06.623
The guardian or curry or something like that ap the

00:13:06.623 --> 00:13:09.363
intercept all the a lot of these a lot of

00:13:09.363 --> 00:13:12.323
internet a lot of places that

00:13:12.323 --> 00:13:15.243
got their start on the internet are now expanding into

00:13:15.243 --> 00:13:18.263
more broadcast so yeah more independent

00:13:18.263 --> 00:13:21.123
journalists but even you know everything has

00:13:21.123 --> 00:13:24.683
to be funded but that's true yeah money

00:13:24.683 --> 00:13:27.563
makes the world go around money makes the world go

00:13:27.563 --> 00:13:30.603
around there's anytime you have something you know

00:13:30.603 --> 00:13:33.803
that's unless you have a product that you sell in if

00:13:33.803 --> 00:13:36.563
you're having looking for something to be funded there's going

00:13:36.563 --> 00:13:43.063
to be contingencies on how those funds are spent and what you can say because

00:13:43.063 --> 00:13:47.443
you know people are always looking out for their bottom line and that's just

00:13:47.443 --> 00:13:53.403
what business is yeah people are in business to make money not lose money Well,

00:13:53.483 --> 00:13:54.863
that's true. That's true.

00:13:55.723 --> 00:14:00.403
That's true. And, you know, contrary to popular belief, you know.

00:14:01.660 --> 00:14:08.940
Most people in the United States want people not only they they want to make

00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:12.760
money, but they they don't want to stop people from making money.

00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:17.760
I think the biggest concern we have is how much is enough.

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:27.100
I think we lack our capitalistic society lacks discipline as far as what we need and all that.

00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:34.300
If you just happen to make 400 billion dollars, OK, but it's like I expect you

00:14:34.300 --> 00:14:40.460
to do more with that wealth than just hoard it because you can't ever spend

00:14:40.460 --> 00:14:41.640
all of that in your lifetime.

00:14:41.900 --> 00:14:46.600
You can't even spend a billion dollars in your lifetime and you've got 400 times that.

00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:53.640
But anyway, I digress. Let me let me get back to you. In May of 2023,

00:14:54.260 --> 00:14:58.560
you wrote, our democracy came razor thin to anarchy.

00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:05.560
The actions and speech of 45 that day were reckless and unacceptable for a functioning democracy.

00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:10.440
He must be held accountable and punished for his failure to act and protect

00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:11.680
the people of this country.

00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:18.920
What are your feelings now considering that he was not held accountable and in fact reelected?

00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.420
How do I feel about Trump? Yeah. 47?

00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:26.780
Yeah. I think that people get what they're going to find out.

00:15:27.140 --> 00:15:30.840
They wanted this. Well, here's the thing.

00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:35.780
Trump, in my opinion, didn't want Democrats' loss because so many people stayed home.

00:15:36.140 --> 00:15:40.660
And that's a failure of the Democratic messaging. That's a failure of foreign policy.

00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:46.380
Trump, I believe, is not going to be able to carry out most of the things that he wants to do.

00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.320
He's going to cause a lot of chaos because he's going to constantly be in the media.

00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:55.940
He will be on his shoebox every day to distract us, and the media is going to

00:15:55.940 --> 00:16:02.920
make a news story of every little thing that he says that goes against traditional norms.

00:16:02.920 --> 00:16:07.480
So I expect him to cause a lot of chaos, but I don't expect a lot of things

00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.920
to be passed in the House because of his razor-thin margins.

00:16:11.500 --> 00:16:18.280
And I also think that with Trump already saying that he's not going to do anything

00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:20.980
to help people with the cost of living,

00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.780
like we're not going to go back, eggs are not going back down with $2,

00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:27.380
gas is not going to go back down,

00:16:27.820 --> 00:16:30.980
you know, inflation is not going back down, it's going to go back up.

00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:34.520
And because he wants to implement tariffs, his base is going to,

00:16:34.560 --> 00:16:38.120
I think his base is eventually going to turn on him because they look at him

00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:42.960
as some economic genius and someone who is going to put tariffs.

00:16:43.530 --> 00:16:47.390
More money in their pockets. And most people don't understand how that money

00:16:47.390 --> 00:16:51.870
gets to your pockets and what it has to go through to get to your pocket.

00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:56.970
So the policies that he will implement will be hurtful to most Americans.

00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:02.210
And I think that eventually, he has two years to get anything that he wants

00:17:02.210 --> 00:17:06.670
to get done because by the midterms in 2026.

00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:13.490
He has three seats in the house. What is it? No, five seats in the House.

00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:16.950
And a lot of his, a lot of the electives are very vulnerable.

00:17:16.950 --> 00:17:21.350
So we do see, I do see some, some relief coming in two years,

00:17:21.490 --> 00:17:25.510
but the next two years, it's just going to be very chaotic, extremely chaotic.

00:17:25.510 --> 00:17:30.730
And the fact that Trump is so successful because he has such a rabid base that

00:17:30.730 --> 00:17:32.770
will attack people, we've seen that.

00:17:33.170 --> 00:17:36.410
He threatens people. He threatened Mark Zuckerberg with jail.

00:17:36.510 --> 00:17:39.670
So that's why he's rolling back all this DEI stuff.

00:17:39.970 --> 00:17:45.270
You know, he threatens people to be locked up. He's a very corrupt leader. He's not a leader.

00:17:45.770 --> 00:17:51.290
He's like a carnival barker to me. And people are following his chaos because

00:17:51.290 --> 00:17:54.270
they believe that, oh, he's a successful man.

00:17:54.270 --> 00:17:58.510
And he whatever he's doing and must be right when we know that what he's doing

00:17:58.510 --> 00:18:01.310
is detrimental to everybody who's not a billionaire.

00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:05.190
And people haven't seemed to catch on to that.

00:18:06.410 --> 00:18:12.990
So you said that the Democratic messaging or lack of messaging was the problem.

00:18:13.830 --> 00:18:21.150
Why do you think people buy into the fact that Donald Trump has an economic plan?

00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:26.070
He literally said in his presidential debate with Vice President Harris that

00:18:26.070 --> 00:18:29.890
he didn't have a plan. He had concepts when it came to health care.

00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:35.210
And he didn't even know, he didn't even recognize a box of Cheerios when he

00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:40.290
was trying to, you know, talk about economics, right? And sat on the table.

00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:47.770
Why do you think his messaging convinces people the opposite,

00:18:47.770 --> 00:18:51.130
that he does have plans? because some of those have,

00:18:52.209 --> 00:18:58.229
Trump is a marketing genius. He knows how to piggyback off of the work of Democrats

00:18:58.229 --> 00:19:01.569
and make it seem like he's projecting a strong economy.

00:19:01.829 --> 00:19:05.489
He doesn't have a concept of a plan because the plan is already in place.

00:19:05.649 --> 00:19:07.129
The economy is doing well.

00:19:08.129 --> 00:19:09.969
The stock market is doing great.

00:19:10.109 --> 00:19:14.129
So if he just continues with those policies, we're going to do great.

00:19:14.769 --> 00:19:19.569
And those are just like he did in his first term. He had eight years of economic growth.

00:19:20.069 --> 00:19:24.169
Now he's going to inherit four years of economic growth from a pandemic.

00:19:24.449 --> 00:19:27.889
So all he has to do is simply continue that.

00:19:28.069 --> 00:19:32.189
And what he's going to do is he's going to have his people either fleece the

00:19:32.189 --> 00:19:34.269
Treasury Department with these tax cuts.

00:19:34.269 --> 00:19:38.829
And then he's going to have his people, you know, his investigators go in and

00:19:38.829 --> 00:19:45.189
investigate and try to relitigate 2020 to see where he where he where he won

00:19:45.189 --> 00:19:48.249
at when it was his administration that said he lost.

00:19:48.589 --> 00:19:53.469
So Trump is just going to continue the economic policies that got us to where

00:19:53.469 --> 00:19:55.129
we are, take credit for it.

00:19:55.229 --> 00:20:00.789
And then he's just going to cause chaos and do whatever is expedient for this

00:20:00.789 --> 00:20:04.369
non global. You know, Trump is not a globalist.

00:20:04.609 --> 00:20:08.749
So he's doing everything that he can against being a globalist.

00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.989
And that's why he's so close to Putin. That's why he likes Edgerton.

00:20:12.249 --> 00:20:16.649
That's why he likes all of these right wing people who are against globalism.

00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:22.189
Because they think that, you know, they think that their idea and their ideologies

00:20:22.189 --> 00:20:25.889
are what should be at the forefront because they have this idea that they created

00:20:25.889 --> 00:20:29.809
everything and everybody else is just eating at the trough because of them when

00:20:29.809 --> 00:20:30.969
we know that's not correct.

00:20:31.789 --> 00:20:35.789
So, you know, I don't think that Trump is going to be able to do the things

00:20:35.789 --> 00:20:38.069
that he wants, that he thinks that he wants to do.

00:20:38.189 --> 00:20:40.749
And his base is going to turn on him. That's my prediction.

00:20:41.149 --> 00:20:45.869
Eight years ago, you played a major role in organizing the Women's March.

00:20:46.934 --> 00:20:51.874
To protest the election of President Trump. Have you been involved in any similar

00:20:51.874 --> 00:20:54.954
action after this year's election? And if not, why not?

00:20:55.514 --> 00:20:59.194
No, I'm not involved in any marches this year because we told people,

00:20:59.814 --> 00:21:01.874
you know, we begged people to come out.

00:21:02.094 --> 00:21:07.454
I really believe that this election was not won by Donald Trump,

00:21:07.714 --> 00:21:09.254
but was lost by the Democrats.

00:21:09.254 --> 00:21:17.114
And I feel like that, you know, I've already put in the work and America chose who they wanted to have.

00:21:17.314 --> 00:21:20.634
So I'm going to let America find out what they got.

00:21:21.034 --> 00:21:24.154
I don't feel the need to participate

00:21:24.154 --> 00:21:30.814
and comment and do any free labor anymore in the political field to protest

00:21:30.814 --> 00:21:34.974
anything because Trump is trying

00:21:34.974 --> 00:21:41.834
to present himself as he's not the strong man that he is, but he is.

00:21:41.834 --> 00:21:44.974
And we're going to find out in just a few days how

00:21:44.974 --> 00:21:48.554
much how chaotic it's going to be and it's going to be like you

00:21:48.554 --> 00:21:51.554
know a repeat of his of his previous four

00:21:51.554 --> 00:21:55.654
years so we i mean we should be prepared for

00:21:55.654 --> 00:22:00.474
what he's going to try to do and i think that i don't think anything can top

00:22:00.474 --> 00:22:06.374
the women's march of 2017 that was just lightning in the bottle that was really

00:22:06.374 --> 00:22:11.094
lightning in the bottle yeah yeah i mean that was that was a historic moment

00:22:11.094 --> 00:22:12.734
you know it was right there.

00:22:14.014 --> 00:22:17.814
You know when you think about the march on washington you think about the million

00:22:17.814 --> 00:22:23.894
man march the women's march is right up there if not bigger because it was it

00:22:23.894 --> 00:22:29.494
was all over the country and really all over the globe so every continent yeah

00:22:29.494 --> 00:22:33.714
so i mean that yeah you you can't top that but,

00:22:34.745 --> 00:22:45.945
I guess there was a result where Trump didn't get reelected at that time,

00:22:45.965 --> 00:22:49.345
but then four years after that, he's back.

00:22:50.565 --> 00:22:55.005
And, yeah, so I don't know if the energy is there.

00:22:55.185 --> 00:22:58.685
I've heard some people saying that they were going to have something the day

00:22:58.685 --> 00:23:04.905
before, But it's it's not really resonating in my network as far as people.

00:23:05.265 --> 00:23:10.165
And another big reason why I'm not participating is because of the way that,

00:23:10.425 --> 00:23:14.825
you know, the way that my relationship with the Women's March ended,

00:23:15.285 --> 00:23:19.205
quite frankly, and how they treated the people who were there for first.

00:23:19.385 --> 00:23:21.905
They deliberately pushed us out deliberately.

00:23:22.445 --> 00:23:27.305
You know, it was it was just hard to keep that whole organization together.

00:23:28.005 --> 00:23:32.265
And the people that are there now, they don't even talk to the people who founded

00:23:32.265 --> 00:23:34.825
it. So there's no way I will be participating.

00:23:35.205 --> 00:23:37.105
Like they come to DC quite often.

00:23:37.745 --> 00:23:42.065
The same, some of the same people that were there for you, one woman that was

00:23:42.065 --> 00:23:43.745
there four years ago is still there.

00:23:44.065 --> 00:23:49.885
She's the black face of the Women's March. And there's no, there's no reaching out to me.

00:23:50.105 --> 00:23:54.045
There's no, let's talk about this or anything. So I don't deal with the Women's

00:23:54.045 --> 00:23:56.105
March at all. Yeah, I got you.

00:23:56.625 --> 00:24:01.385
So that leads me to this question. Many black women have publicly said that

00:24:01.385 --> 00:24:05.925
they were checking out and focusing on self-care after the election.

00:24:06.285 --> 00:24:12.405
What have you done or what are you doing to achieve some sort of peace for yourself?

00:24:13.419 --> 00:24:17.099
I just became a grandmother, so I'm spending a lot of time with my grandmother.

00:24:17.539 --> 00:24:21.059
I mean, my granddaughter, which is very therapeutic.

00:24:21.479 --> 00:24:25.879
But, you know, I think that building community is going to be really important

00:24:25.879 --> 00:24:30.019
over the next four years because we're not going to be able to depend on our

00:24:30.019 --> 00:24:34.399
leaders for any kind of guidance. We're not going to be able to depend on our government.

00:24:34.739 --> 00:24:39.819
We don't even really have a government at this point. And it's like the people

00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:43.359
that we've seen in position, they've been very disappointing.

00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:48.559
So it's going to be important for us to build community off of social media.

00:24:49.059 --> 00:24:53.779
Build community with like, you know, through other lanes and other avenues,

00:24:53.779 --> 00:24:59.039
because we're seeing such a huge shift in how we organize and how we are able

00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:06.039
to communicate that we have to find other avenues to be able to keep our community safe.

00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:11.179
And keep our communities engaged and also keep, I mean, because most of the

00:25:11.179 --> 00:25:12.979
92% know that we got to vote.

00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:17.919
But as far as being an advocate and being in the streets, I don't think that

00:25:17.919 --> 00:25:22.899
that's having an opinion about what Trump is doing, having discussions and conversation.

00:25:22.899 --> 00:25:26.859
I don't think that that's going to be something that's high on the list of most

00:25:26.859 --> 00:25:29.199
Black women who voted in this election.

00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:34.619
We're more interested in building community around each other and making sure

00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:41.939
that we are working and taking care of our families, because that's what the struggle is going to be.

00:25:42.159 --> 00:25:45.619
It's going to be a struggle for us to stay afloat.

00:25:45.739 --> 00:25:51.059
And it's going to be more important that we focus on our well-being than politics

00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:56.899
at this point, because we're going to see the same things that we saw four years ago, the same outrage.

00:25:57.179 --> 00:26:00.019
Trump is going to be outrageous every chance he gets.

00:26:00.379 --> 00:26:03.379
And I just don't think it's worth the energy because he's

00:26:03.379 --> 00:26:06.339
a lot of bluster a lot of hot air and it's

00:26:06.339 --> 00:26:09.099
just not worth it's not worth the energy to get worked up

00:26:09.099 --> 00:26:11.939
at the at the nonsense and chaos that he's gonna

00:26:11.939 --> 00:26:15.159
cause because he definitely has

00:26:15.159 --> 00:26:20.839
a strategy you know and his strategy worked his strategy was to pick off black

00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:25.999
people so that he could win and he did that so he has people in art and then

00:26:25.999 --> 00:26:30.779
black community that rock with him and it's like it's It's no need in talking

00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.959
to these people because you can't change their minds.

00:26:33.339 --> 00:26:38.659
They believe everything that he is the only person that is smart enough or savvy

00:26:38.659 --> 00:26:40.799
enough or witty enough to figure things out.

00:26:40.919 --> 00:26:43.359
So we're going to let them have it, let them do their thing.

00:26:43.679 --> 00:26:46.979
Meanwhile, we'll be building community offline somewhere else.

00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:53.979
So over the last couple of years, the term intersectionality has become more

00:26:53.979 --> 00:26:56.759
prevalent in the discussion of activism.

00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:02.679
As someone who has had to live an intersectional life as a black woman in America,

00:27:02.999 --> 00:27:05.999
how much work needs to be done towards

00:27:05.999 --> 00:27:11.159
American Americans understanding intersectionality and its importance?

00:27:12.429 --> 00:27:18.749
Well, I think that after the last election results, the term intersectionality

00:27:18.749 --> 00:27:22.089
does not have as much of the bite that it used to have.

00:27:22.249 --> 00:27:29.209
It's not very much accepted in circles where Black women are having conversations

00:27:29.209 --> 00:27:34.249
because we understand that no one is looking out for us but us.

00:27:34.909 --> 00:27:40.229
There's no other demographic that's going to embrace our struggles and listen

00:27:40.229 --> 00:27:44.429
to us. And that's another reason why black women are saying we're sitting this

00:27:44.429 --> 00:27:48.229
out because we've been telling y'all for how many years?

00:27:48.549 --> 00:27:52.729
400 years what white supremacy is. And it's like, you don't believe us.

00:27:53.229 --> 00:27:58.329
It seems like people are okay with casual racism and they don't understand how

00:27:58.329 --> 00:28:04.249
much black women feel that and go through that and are affected by that.

00:28:04.249 --> 00:28:09.049
And that's why we're always saying, you know, we're always warning people what

00:28:09.049 --> 00:28:11.629
the problems of racism are.

00:28:11.829 --> 00:28:14.169
And it's like they people don't believe us.

00:28:14.489 --> 00:28:17.949
They really don't believe us. Other demographics don't believe us.

00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:19.749
So now is their turn to find out.

00:28:20.349 --> 00:28:23.649
That's how I feel. That's really how I feel.

00:28:24.569 --> 00:28:29.809
I understand exactly what you're saying as far as allyship goes.

00:28:31.569 --> 00:28:39.689
But you until you go to another realm, you are a black woman in America.

00:28:39.929 --> 00:28:46.509
So even if you're not part of a quote unquote movement, you still are a black woman.

00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:56.349
And so what do you so I guess you answer the question as far as getting Americans to understand.

00:28:56.349 --> 00:29:04.269
And I guess my follow up is what what needs to be done to try to.

00:29:05.956 --> 00:29:08.756
Strengthen the 92 percent what needs to

00:29:08.756 --> 00:29:12.396
be done to actions need to be taken other

00:29:12.396 --> 00:29:15.316
demographics need to take need to listen to the

00:29:15.316 --> 00:29:18.536
framework that black women have set up and examples

00:29:18.536 --> 00:29:24.276
that black black women in leadership have set up and follow that i feel like

00:29:24.276 --> 00:29:28.536
when black people are free and palestinians are free the whole world will be

00:29:28.536 --> 00:29:34.096
free and if we're not following them if we're If we're taking our cues from

00:29:34.096 --> 00:29:36.676
other people that don't understand the struggle,

00:29:36.976 --> 00:29:41.536
I'm talking about Black American women that have been through cattle slavery

00:29:41.536 --> 00:29:42.956
who still have the scars.

00:29:42.956 --> 00:29:49.216
If we're not taking their accounts into how we navigate white supremacy and

00:29:49.216 --> 00:29:53.556
this government that we have that's under white supremacy and white nationalism,

00:29:54.136 --> 00:30:01.156
then other communities are not going to be able to navigate a movement, for example.

00:30:01.356 --> 00:30:04.596
You know what I mean? They're not going to be the Fannie Lou Hamers of the world.

00:30:04.836 --> 00:30:09.396
They're not, you know, they're not going to be the soldier on the truce of the

00:30:09.396 --> 00:30:14.056
world because they're not understanding where this opposition comes from.

00:30:14.716 --> 00:30:18.816
We understand that we live it and we breathe it. And it's like people are not listening.

00:30:19.036 --> 00:30:24.396
They're dismissing it when those same tenements that the same tenements of the

00:30:24.396 --> 00:30:28.356
1920 Tulsa race riot are still here in our society.

00:30:28.796 --> 00:30:33.296
And if you're not listening to us and how you navigate that and how you combat

00:30:33.296 --> 00:30:37.356
it, then what's the point of us still being interceptional?

00:30:37.736 --> 00:30:42.076
I don't think that there's a reason. There's a need, but we need to save our own communities.

00:30:43.253 --> 00:30:51.213
Because other communities are not going to back us up when we're the ones that paved the way.

00:30:51.773 --> 00:30:57.093
It's as if people don't realize that Black Americans paved the way for everything,

00:30:57.093 --> 00:30:59.113
everything in this country.

00:30:59.153 --> 00:31:04.213
The reason why we have immigration is because Black Americans and the Civil Rights Act.

00:31:04.453 --> 00:31:07.973
The reason why women can vote, you know what I'm saying? The reason why we make

00:31:07.973 --> 00:31:12.873
a difference in our homes is because of Black women. And we just don't get the credit.

00:31:13.253 --> 00:31:19.713
We're still vilified in public, you know, and we're still called baby mamas and all this nonsense.

00:31:20.633 --> 00:31:25.353
We're not acknowledged as the intelligent beings that we are.

00:31:25.573 --> 00:31:28.153
And that's real old and people are tired of it.

00:31:28.993 --> 00:31:34.233
Because the women that you mentioned, Fannie Lou and Sojourner,

00:31:34.533 --> 00:31:37.693
and I'll throw in Ella Baker and Bell Hooks.

00:31:37.693 --> 00:31:46.753
So it's more they they embrace more of their blackness than their femininity

00:31:46.753 --> 00:31:50.793
when it came to activism because of what you highlighted.

00:31:51.833 --> 00:31:57.253
Is that more or less the direction we should go? So as a matter of fact,

00:31:57.353 --> 00:31:58.333
let me let me just say this.

00:31:58.513 --> 00:32:01.733
Let me ask this question this way over the next four years.

00:32:02.053 --> 00:32:06.513
Where would what would you like to see black people do to strengthen their political

00:32:06.513 --> 00:32:09.253
position and increase their political voice?

00:32:09.673 --> 00:32:13.953
I would like to see what what the only thing that would work for black people

00:32:13.953 --> 00:32:16.933
is that we organize massive boy boycotts.

00:32:17.233 --> 00:32:20.553
That's what if anything is going to work, it's not going to be protesting is

00:32:20.553 --> 00:32:26.073
going to be boycotts. And if we're not using our dollars to send a political

00:32:26.073 --> 00:32:30.453
message, we're not going to be effective in this billionaire class of governance.

00:32:31.413 --> 00:32:39.193
So let me let me ask you this, because that's been one of the tools that we've

00:32:39.193 --> 00:32:46.633
kind of abandoned because we are so intertwined with the economy.

00:32:47.013 --> 00:32:54.793
Right. But Walmart, for example, Walmart has decided, well, we're not going to do DEI no more.

00:32:55.373 --> 00:32:58.833
Costco says, yeah, we're going to keep this going.

00:33:00.013 --> 00:33:04.273
But there's more Walmarts than there are Costco's.

00:33:04.273 --> 00:33:09.693
How can, in a pragmatic sense,

00:33:10.493 --> 00:33:19.913
how can we effectively boycott anything when we've become so dependent on...

00:33:22.467 --> 00:33:28.547
These companies to do our basic stuff. Everybody gets packages from Amazon.

00:33:29.547 --> 00:33:31.607
Everybody. I stop using Amazon.

00:33:34.367 --> 00:33:37.867
So what do you, so you, you strictly, I mean, how do you, how do you.

00:33:37.987 --> 00:33:40.167
I go to the store and get the stuff that I need.

00:33:40.427 --> 00:33:44.287
It's going to take planning. It's going to take research. It's going to take leadership.

00:33:44.407 --> 00:33:45.927
It's not going to be easy, but

00:33:45.927 --> 00:33:49.747
we have to do it. You think the Montgomery boys bus boycotts were easy.

00:33:49.907 --> 00:33:55.547
They weren't, but people have to draw a line in the sand and decide what are they standing for?

00:33:56.067 --> 00:34:00.327
And it's a lot of people that won't do that. Unfortunately, it's only a few

00:34:00.327 --> 00:34:03.307
that will. And that's why we are so ineffective.

00:34:04.147 --> 00:34:08.167
So what would, well, what would

00:34:08.167 --> 00:34:15.427
be the people were willing to make that sacrifice in 1955 in Mississippi?

00:34:15.687 --> 00:34:20.527
I want to say it was in 72 and I might be wrong.

00:34:20.547 --> 00:34:23.687
Wrong on the year or whatever, but the citizens of Port Gibson,

00:34:23.827 --> 00:34:30.767
Mississippi, the black citizens decided they wanted to do like a one week boycott.

00:34:30.947 --> 00:34:38.707
And the way that they did it was that they didn't say, we're not going shopping.

00:34:38.707 --> 00:34:46.587
What they did was they somehow found through enough banks to get $2 bills.

00:34:46.967 --> 00:34:51.287
And all they used was $2 bills during that time period.

00:34:52.021 --> 00:34:57.061
To purchase anything. And it sent a message to the city of Port Gibson that

00:34:57.061 --> 00:35:01.721
it's like, this is the economic impact of black people in Port Gibson.

00:35:01.921 --> 00:35:05.601
And they're showing us because they're only using $2 bills.

00:35:05.881 --> 00:35:10.221
And now when you go to Port Gibson, it's like, is there any white folks in Port Gibson, right?

00:35:10.601 --> 00:35:13.621
Because they, you know, Claiborne County, they

00:35:13.621 --> 00:35:16.801
run everything down here and and

00:35:16.801 --> 00:35:20.481
they had and they're doing well because you know

00:35:20.481 --> 00:35:23.381
some things happened like they built that

00:35:23.381 --> 00:35:26.441
nuclear plant down there and everything else so their their economic

00:35:26.441 --> 00:35:31.101
situation has gotten better even with the black leadership where

00:35:31.101 --> 00:35:40.201
how do we in this day and age get people to make the sacrifice that those people

00:35:40.201 --> 00:35:46.621
in montgomery that those people in port gibson and be willing to do in order

00:35:46.621 --> 00:35:50.121
to be effective in a boycott?

00:35:50.281 --> 00:35:52.461
Do we target one particular thing?

00:35:52.841 --> 00:35:58.601
Do we try to do like the sisters try to do after the election and say,

00:35:58.741 --> 00:36:03.001
okay, this is going to be your Black Friday Christmas list, only shop at these particular stores?

00:36:03.701 --> 00:36:10.441
How would you envision an effective boycott to send a message? We need to organize.

00:36:11.221 --> 00:36:15.221
We need to decide on what it is that we're boycotting and then we need to organize.

00:36:15.501 --> 00:36:19.101
It's not that they, like we always say, it's not that the other side is better

00:36:19.101 --> 00:36:23.201
than us. They just out-organize us. It's just as simple as that.

00:36:24.021 --> 00:36:29.181
If we decide that, for example, we're going to cut cable off for a week,

00:36:29.361 --> 00:36:34.861
we could change the whole narrative, but we won't do that because we have to

00:36:34.861 --> 00:36:37.441
let people know that boycotts are sacrifices.

00:36:37.801 --> 00:36:43.061
And we have to find something that we can sacrifice for a long period of time

00:36:43.061 --> 00:36:45.881
and we can organize around. Yeah.

00:36:46.741 --> 00:36:52.161
Yeah. It was easy for people to, I remember, I can't remember,

00:36:52.201 --> 00:36:58.861
I guess it was 2020 when we, everybody posted like something black,

00:36:59.241 --> 00:37:05.761
you know, a black image, you know, just a blank black image on our screens to

00:37:05.761 --> 00:37:09.721
send a message about how we felt with George Floyd.

00:37:10.841 --> 00:37:17.541
But yeah, I think one of the things I, you know, was done.

00:37:17.741 --> 00:37:20.261
Jesse Jackson senior tried to get,

00:37:21.333 --> 00:37:24.533
black folks to get more engaged in buying stocks.

00:37:25.133 --> 00:37:31.633
And I remember they had a big boycott because MCI wouldn't unionize.

00:37:31.893 --> 00:37:37.793
And so he had so many shares. So he showed up at the shareholders meeting.

00:37:39.913 --> 00:37:44.393
And challenged MCI at that point. Now, of course, that guy ended up going to

00:37:44.393 --> 00:37:49.873
jail, Bernie Evers, for taking money off the talk and lying about how much MCI was worth.

00:37:51.313 --> 00:37:56.153
But that didn't even seem to really generate stuff. I bought stock.

00:37:56.353 --> 00:38:01.473
I remember we were talking about what was going on in Columbia with the farm

00:38:01.473 --> 00:38:03.773
workers that was dealing with Coca-Cola.

00:38:05.173 --> 00:38:08.613
And it was like, well, we need to boycott Coca-Cola.

00:38:08.793 --> 00:38:13.373
I said, or you can buy stock in Coca-Cola and have a say-so as a shareholder.

00:38:14.413 --> 00:38:17.473
And she was like, well, you're not going to the national meetings.

00:38:17.553 --> 00:38:19.093
I said, no, but they send me a ballot.

00:38:19.693 --> 00:38:23.893
And in my ballot, I write, they ask shareholders to mark comments.

00:38:24.073 --> 00:38:28.293
And in my comments, I said, we need to treat the farmers that create the product

00:38:28.293 --> 00:38:30.473
better. We need to pay them.

00:38:30.733 --> 00:38:34.933
We need to make sure that there's no human rights abuses on the farms,

00:38:34.933 --> 00:38:38.673
all that kind of stuff. So it's documented, right?

00:38:39.213 --> 00:38:46.113
And so, I mean, my little shares weren't going to, I mean, you know,

00:38:46.573 --> 00:38:54.833
but, but I felt that that was an effective way to continue to highlight what was going on.

00:38:56.273 --> 00:38:59.253
But again, I think that that goes back to what you're saying.

00:38:59.253 --> 00:39:02.773
We have to really, really organize and commit, even if we do,

00:39:03.033 --> 00:39:06.473
if we don't do a boycott, we do a buy in, right?

00:39:06.473 --> 00:39:13.433
You still got to organize and, you know, we were kind of talking offline about

00:39:13.433 --> 00:39:16.473
commitment, right? Mm-hmm.

00:39:18.801 --> 00:39:22.901
Where do you see, and we'll close out with that,

00:39:23.121 --> 00:39:35.161
where do you see the leadership to push ideas like that and to make the commitment to organize?

00:39:35.161 --> 00:39:38.641
Where is that leadership going to come from in our community?

00:39:39.401 --> 00:39:41.821
Well, you know, America is about

00:39:41.821 --> 00:39:47.201
capitalism. So the people with the most money have the bigger voices.

00:39:47.741 --> 00:39:54.521
But in our communities, those bigger voices are tied to a whole bunch of other

00:39:54.521 --> 00:39:58.961
things that, and, you know, I'm talking about like the,

00:39:59.281 --> 00:40:04.161
I don't like to just say Jay-Z, but for example, he's a billionaire.

00:40:04.161 --> 00:40:06.481
I'm talking about the billionaire class in our communities.

00:40:06.561 --> 00:40:08.661
It's going to take some leadership from them.

00:40:08.881 --> 00:40:13.441
It really is going to take some leadership from them and being able to talk

00:40:13.441 --> 00:40:18.181
amongst the big boys, because if our community isn't organized,

00:40:18.201 --> 00:40:21.241
if we're not looking out for each other, we won't have one.

00:40:21.381 --> 00:40:25.861
And I think the goal in America is to make sure that Black people are not progressing.

00:40:26.141 --> 00:40:28.701
And America is doing a very good job at that.

00:40:29.161 --> 00:40:34.441
They're doing a very good job at that. And I think that we need to be more focused

00:40:34.441 --> 00:40:37.181
on solutions and community.

00:40:37.461 --> 00:40:42.461
We have to be more focused on solutions and community. And people have to listen to each other.

00:40:43.301 --> 00:40:47.261
You know, oftentimes in organizing, we want perfection.

00:40:47.821 --> 00:40:51.821
We don't want to cause harm. You know, and we want to make sure that all of

00:40:51.821 --> 00:40:57.301
our systems are centering the most vulnerable amongst us.

00:40:57.381 --> 00:41:00.801
But sometimes we're going to need to take bold action.

00:41:01.641 --> 00:41:06.981
And bold action is going to have to come from people who have the power to do that. Yeah.

00:41:07.921 --> 00:41:13.941
All right. Well, sister summers, as always, it's good talking to you in this

00:41:13.941 --> 00:41:16.401
format and offline as well.

00:41:17.697 --> 00:41:25.597
You have you have a business. How can people reach out to you to to solicit

00:41:25.597 --> 00:41:33.977
your services and to reach out to you just to do what you're doing now, be a guest or just,

00:41:34.157 --> 00:41:38.457
you know, just just to reach out to you? How can people do that?

00:41:38.637 --> 00:41:42.437
You can follow me on social media. Well, yeah, social media.

00:41:43.037 --> 00:41:48.737
Ianta underscore Summers on Instagram. You can follow me at Summers Public Affairs on Instagram.

00:41:49.057 --> 00:41:53.677
You can also reach me through my website, SummersPublicAffairs.com.

00:41:53.957 --> 00:42:00.317
And you can email me at Ianta, I-A-N-T-A at SummersPublicAffairs.com.

00:42:00.817 --> 00:42:07.617
Well, I have to admit, I'm a little jealous because you are something that I don't know I'll be.

00:42:07.857 --> 00:42:12.077
My child has not made the commitment to be a parent.

00:42:12.157 --> 00:42:18.117
So I don't know if I'll ever be a grandparent, but I'm more envious of the grandchild

00:42:18.117 --> 00:42:22.857
because that grandchild's got somebody that's really, really special.

00:42:23.577 --> 00:42:30.877
And they're going to have a lot of fun with you as a grandparent. I believe so.

00:42:32.657 --> 00:42:36.317
But also, too, I just want to say this publicly.

00:42:36.677 --> 00:42:44.257
I think that you are a light that needs to be illuminated more.

00:42:44.517 --> 00:42:48.977
I think that you have a very, very powerful voice in this community.

00:42:49.497 --> 00:42:55.957
And I hope that you being on this podcast helps you elevate that voice.

00:42:55.957 --> 00:43:03.437
But I think I think you really you really need to be your resource that needs

00:43:03.437 --> 00:43:06.597
to be utilized much more than than it is.

00:43:06.777 --> 00:43:13.717
And so I'm hoping that 2025 is that year that people catch on to that.

00:43:13.917 --> 00:43:19.917
I hope that you're, you know, everything that you want positive to happen happens to you.

00:43:20.477 --> 00:43:25.837
And I really appreciate the fact that you trust me enough to come on and talk

00:43:25.837 --> 00:43:30.457
about these things on the podcast so thank you for for coming on I appreciate

00:43:30.457 --> 00:43:34.737
my pleasure I hope that we can stay in touch thank you so much for your kind

00:43:34.737 --> 00:43:38.577
words all right all right guys and we're gonna catch y'all on the other side.

00:43:39.600 --> 00:43:57.840
Music.

00:43:57.739 --> 00:44:03.299
All right. And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Dr. Renee Carr.

00:44:03.759 --> 00:44:08.879
Dr. Renee Carr is the trusted confidant to elected officials and high impact CEOs.

00:44:09.359 --> 00:44:15.119
She applies psychological science, business acumen and human understanding to

00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:20.199
produce change at the state and national level. With expertise in human thinking,

00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.979
behaviors, emotions, and communications, Dr.

00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:28.599
Carr advises leaders on the solutions to improve their government's economy,

00:44:28.939 --> 00:44:30.899
culture, and impact on citizens.

00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.779
She also provides insight on the likelihood of future events,

00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:39.799
strategies to prevent future problems, and solutions for current problems or

00:44:39.799 --> 00:44:44.859
crises. As a refreshing voice of honesty and intellect, Dr.

00:44:44.959 --> 00:44:48.979
Carr attracts listeners and viewers who want real, frank, and smart information

00:44:48.979 --> 00:44:53.979
to better understand social issues, critical news, and current events.

00:44:54.319 --> 00:44:59.379
Dr. Carr has become a trusted source that audiences can repeatedly turn to for

00:44:59.379 --> 00:45:01.939
unbiased explanation and advice.

00:45:01.939 --> 00:45:07.219
As an award-winning psychologist and entrepreneur, she has received numerous

00:45:07.219 --> 00:45:12.579
recognitions for innovative use of psychology to produce significant outcomes,

00:45:12.899 --> 00:45:15.399
change and achievements for her clients.

00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:20.479
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have on this

00:45:20.479 --> 00:45:23.759
podcast again, Dr. Renee Carr.

00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:35.120
Music.

00:45:34.099 --> 00:45:39.179
All right, Dr. Renee Carr, the problem solver. How are you doing, ma'am?

00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.719
I'm fine. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you, too. It's good to hear you.

00:45:46.259 --> 00:45:48.699
Glad that you could come back on the program.

00:45:50.319 --> 00:45:54.499
And this is going to be interesting because the day that this episode drops,

00:45:54.699 --> 00:45:56.279
it's going to be Inauguration Day.

00:45:57.459 --> 00:46:00.179
And so one of

00:46:00.179 --> 00:46:07.299
the things because you you have a unique practice where you you're a psychologist

00:46:07.299 --> 00:46:12.779
but you also do political consulting and that's always been fascinating with

00:46:12.779 --> 00:46:17.499
me as far as you're concerned and as i told you before i wish i had known you

00:46:17.499 --> 00:46:19.279
when i was elected probably Like,

00:46:19.279 --> 00:46:26.239
but what I want to do is do like we normally do and start off with a quote.

00:46:27.219 --> 00:46:28.859
And so this is your quote.

00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:37.019
Compromise where you can, where you can't don't, even if everyone is telling

00:46:37.019 --> 00:46:39.919
you that something wrong is something right.

00:46:40.259 --> 00:46:43.439
I didn't mean your quote like you said it. I was just saying.

00:46:43.659 --> 00:46:46.679
OK, I was thinking I would say that. I don't remember saying.

00:46:50.999 --> 00:46:54.799
All right. Do you want me to state it again? No. So you want me to do what?

00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:56.119
Respond to it? Yes, ma'am.

00:46:57.505 --> 00:47:04.445
I think that being able to have integrity in what you say and what you do is very essential,

00:47:04.905 --> 00:47:12.225
especially in politics, when the lives and livelihoods of individuals are resting

00:47:12.225 --> 00:47:16.605
on you, just doing what you say you're going to do. and transparency.

00:47:17.045 --> 00:47:22.485
So I do agree, do what you believe to be right, even if everyone else says it's

00:47:22.485 --> 00:47:27.245
wrong, because what everyone else is saying is wrong may mean that it's wrong

00:47:27.245 --> 00:47:30.125
because it won't benefit them or their agenda.

00:47:31.205 --> 00:47:35.485
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that seems like a pretty simple concept,

00:47:35.485 --> 00:47:40.025
but in this day and age, yeah, that's not necessarily what's going on.

00:47:40.165 --> 00:47:43.305
But and I was listening

00:47:43.305 --> 00:47:46.945
to your your last episode and that

00:47:46.945 --> 00:47:50.705
was that was very fascinating about the personalities

00:47:50.705 --> 00:47:55.025
that connect with submitting to

00:47:55.025 --> 00:48:01.425
oh the psychology of submission oh thank you yeah yeah so I said that quote

00:48:01.425 --> 00:48:06.805
kind of goes along with what you were talking about in your last episode so

00:48:06.805 --> 00:48:12.465
this new feature i've added and and i got the idea i'm in this thing called meetup,

00:48:13.185 --> 00:48:16.465
okay i don't know if you've heard of that but it's it's i've heard of those

00:48:16.465 --> 00:48:24.465
yeah so there's a group called crossing party lines and so they threw out like this question.

00:48:25.625 --> 00:48:31.625
Questionnaire as sort of an icebreaker for folks if they want to get into political

00:48:31.625 --> 00:48:33.385
discussions without starting a fight.

00:48:34.645 --> 00:48:39.945
So I said, yeah, I think I'll throw that on my guests and see how they respond to it.

00:48:40.105 --> 00:48:45.645
So what I need you to do is give me a number between one and 20.

00:48:46.485 --> 00:48:49.765
17. Okay. So this is your question.

00:48:50.985 --> 00:48:57.545
What's something about people who see the world differently than you that you've come to appreciate?

00:48:58.955 --> 00:49:02.415
Well, I don't know if that would be a fair question because I'm a psychologist.

00:49:02.955 --> 00:49:07.975
So I would believe that their perception of the world,

00:49:08.355 --> 00:49:12.515
you know, the cognitive triad self, others in the future is based off of their

00:49:12.515 --> 00:49:20.735
experiences and external behaviors and maybe past trauma or their mental resilience.

00:49:22.575 --> 00:49:29.155
So I appreciate a lot of things with almost everybody so I don't think that

00:49:29.155 --> 00:49:32.455
was a good question for me because I don't know if I could I can't really separate

00:49:32.455 --> 00:49:37.295
myself from being a psychologist yeah you know and that's that's that's interesting

00:49:37.295 --> 00:49:41.195
because you know I know that,

00:49:41.815 --> 00:49:48.255
you're trained to really really listen and to hone in and and to be accepting.

00:49:49.235 --> 00:49:52.235
But you know have you have you

00:49:52.235 --> 00:49:55.195
had a situation where it's like oh no

00:49:55.195 --> 00:49:57.935
I can't I can't deal with that and and how did

00:49:57.935 --> 00:50:00.875
you navigate around that okay so

00:50:00.875 --> 00:50:06.295
let me piggyback on what you just said and then I'll think of a of a difference

00:50:06.295 --> 00:50:12.515
of a think of a situation yes I am a psychologist by training but individual

00:50:12.515 --> 00:50:18.915
personalities and purposes who they are is what attracts them to their professions.

00:50:19.335 --> 00:50:24.795
So yes, I'm a psychologist by training or have a license and the title,

00:50:25.475 --> 00:50:29.495
but it was always my personality. Even when I was younger, people would always

00:50:29.495 --> 00:50:32.555
say, oh, you were always asking me, well, how do you feel and what's wrong?

00:50:32.835 --> 00:50:35.115
So that was always who I was.

00:50:35.535 --> 00:50:43.815
But what I could say, maybe as far as the recent election with me just being Renee and not Dr.

00:50:43.975 --> 00:50:50.835
Carr, it has been very intolerable to see people, media,

00:50:51.275 --> 00:50:58.095
news, insist that it was the price of eggs of why Kamala did not win the election,

00:50:58.095 --> 00:51:02.715
instead of just being honest and saying it was about racism and sexism.

00:51:03.115 --> 00:51:09.315
And that part is really blows my mind to the level of how people don't want

00:51:09.315 --> 00:51:13.215
to see what has become so glaringly obvious.

00:51:14.715 --> 00:51:19.075
Yeah. So let me, I was going to ask you, let me, let me jump to this question

00:51:19.075 --> 00:51:25.635
then, since you said that, because I want to talk to you about America's racial backlash.

00:51:26.535 --> 00:51:31.575
Now I personally have seen four examples of this backlash, the election of Ronald

00:51:31.575 --> 00:51:36.375
Reagan, the formation of the Tea Party after the election of Barack Obama and

00:51:36.375 --> 00:51:37.815
the two Trump elections.

00:51:38.335 --> 00:51:43.235
So I have two questions. One, is this backlash psychological?

00:51:43.835 --> 00:51:47.955
And two, can anything be done to overcome it?

00:51:49.341 --> 00:51:55.661
The background is psychological when you think about the reason of why people

00:51:55.661 --> 00:52:02.941
have biases in their thinking, which is what causes racism along with learned behavior.

00:52:02.941 --> 00:52:08.241
But then you also have external variables that influence behavior that maintain

00:52:08.241 --> 00:52:11.821
racist behaviors and systems of racism,

00:52:12.101 --> 00:52:16.661
meaning that if I can show that the less black or the less brown and the more

00:52:16.661 --> 00:52:19.901
white I am, then I can receive more benefits.

00:52:19.901 --> 00:52:26.821
So then I am reinforced to have racist-based thinking or encouragement because

00:52:26.821 --> 00:52:29.321
I'm rewarded for being different.

00:52:29.521 --> 00:52:33.641
And then that then gives me a mindset of, well, then this is right.

00:52:33.641 --> 00:52:38.421
And anything that goes against me not having preferential treatment or societal

00:52:38.421 --> 00:52:44.381
privilege does mean that it's an injustice to me. And so I think that it's a cycle.

00:52:44.581 --> 00:52:50.981
I think it is a racial backlash because of the the thought process that go into

00:52:50.981 --> 00:52:55.781
creating and maintaining racism and also the systems that allow it to continue.

00:52:55.781 --> 00:52:59.681
And I think the only thing that will change it are individuals,

00:52:59.701 --> 00:53:05.861
as you said, you mentioned, you listened to the All the King's Men episode from yesterday.

00:53:06.281 --> 00:53:11.041
What would actually change it is for people to just be willing to be honest,

00:53:11.041 --> 00:53:15.141
even if it means they are going to lose a preferential treatment.

00:53:15.141 --> 00:53:22.601
And because of a lack mindset of a supremacy mindset, which only comes from

00:53:22.601 --> 00:53:24.221
a lack mindset, by the way,

00:53:24.481 --> 00:53:29.301
I think if people were to have more of an abundance mindset and a community

00:53:29.301 --> 00:53:33.141
mindset, rather than an individualistic society like we have in America,

00:53:33.461 --> 00:53:38.161
then that would be the first thing that we could help to eradicate these thinkings

00:53:38.161 --> 00:53:39.961
or to avoid a racial backlash.

00:53:40.261 --> 00:53:42.161
But then it would also have to then.

00:53:43.066 --> 00:53:50.106
Before that, acknowledge and not minimize that there is a racist and racial

00:53:50.106 --> 00:53:54.966
influence on how our country is today and how people have benefited today,

00:53:54.966 --> 00:54:00.746
even if it was 100 years ago when their last ancestor was a part of the slave

00:54:00.746 --> 00:54:03.966
trade or enslavement or oppression of other individuals.

00:54:03.966 --> 00:54:08.866
So first, you have to acknowledge it without apologizing, just acknowledge that

00:54:08.866 --> 00:54:14.846
the truth is the truth, and then recognize how you can look at the forensics

00:54:14.846 --> 00:54:16.906
of it and see how one individual,

00:54:17.226 --> 00:54:24.066
one family, one community, or one race has predictably become more influential

00:54:24.066 --> 00:54:28.086
or become more economically stable because of the oppression of others,

00:54:28.226 --> 00:54:32.766
and then recognize that others have been in poverty because of that same situation.

00:54:32.766 --> 00:54:35.906
So then if you recognize the truth of what has actually happened,

00:54:36.166 --> 00:54:38.206
and then you can then do a, you know,

00:54:38.566 --> 00:54:42.926
military after action review, and then how can we now fix it now that we know

00:54:42.926 --> 00:54:46.586
what happened and where the injustices and inequities have occurred,

00:54:46.586 --> 00:54:50.006
and then we can more accurately identify and then correct them.

00:54:50.226 --> 00:54:55.186
But right now, many people are benefiting so much that they don't want to acknowledge

00:54:55.186 --> 00:54:58.546
the historical truth and the present consequences.

00:54:59.666 --> 00:55:04.046
Yeah, you know, it's so fascinating to me.

00:55:04.966 --> 00:55:13.346
You know, when I was elected and, you know, it's been like 25 odd years ago

00:55:13.346 --> 00:55:19.366
now, it was like the move was reconciliation, right?

00:55:19.366 --> 00:55:26.466
It was like trying to get to that step of, you know, reconciling the differences

00:55:26.466 --> 00:55:29.686
between blacks and whites in America and all that.

00:55:30.066 --> 00:55:35.166
But now it seems like we've regressed to the point now we're not even we got

00:55:35.166 --> 00:55:41.126
to go back to acknowledgement before we because you before you can reconcile, you got to acknowledge.

00:55:42.046 --> 00:55:45.306
And and it seems like now we've regressed.

00:55:45.486 --> 00:55:50.246
Do you do you have that same observation? I think that.

00:55:51.331 --> 00:55:57.311
The acknowledgement now that we look at what happened with the re-election of

00:55:57.311 --> 00:56:02.411
Trump, despite known behaviors that he has done,

00:56:02.911 --> 00:56:06.991
the first time everyone didn't really know so much, but the second time everyone

00:56:06.991 --> 00:56:10.951
did know and still thought that he was the better candidate than an actually

00:56:10.951 --> 00:56:13.331
qualified elected official.

00:56:13.331 --> 00:56:20.451
So I think that all that really revealed is that there was a previous attempt for reconciliation,

00:56:20.451 --> 00:56:26.691
but because it was done legally rather than in the hearts and minds of individuals,

00:56:26.691 --> 00:56:33.311
when the individuals who thought that they were forced to reconcile then perceived

00:56:33.311 --> 00:56:34.731
that they were losing, again,

00:56:34.871 --> 00:56:40.331
their preferential treatment and that they were no longer having an equal say

00:56:40.331 --> 00:56:45.231
and others having less say, Then I think that when you it continued,

00:56:45.251 --> 00:56:51.151
despite having the laws or legislation or policies to help promote equity and

00:56:51.151 --> 00:56:57.331
racial reconciliation, when someone who came along allowed them to see that,

00:56:57.751 --> 00:57:03.071
no, we can be blatantly racist and resume our power,

00:57:03.511 --> 00:57:10.211
then that just uncovered what was already there that had been suppressed. Yeah.

00:57:11.211 --> 00:57:18.171
All right. So we are in the middle of the confirmation process for the next administration.

00:57:18.871 --> 00:57:23.851
On a recent, I guess, bonus episode of your podcast, Politics and Psychology,

00:57:24.251 --> 00:57:29.611
you talked about confirmation bias and how it is currently being applied in these hearings.

00:57:30.091 --> 00:57:37.651
Explain to the listeners what that is and how detrimental it could be to the political process.

00:57:38.467 --> 00:57:44.887
So confirmation bias is a psychological term that explains behavior in decision making for humans,

00:57:45.087 --> 00:57:50.027
meaning that if I already have a desired outcome that I want to prove,

00:57:50.067 --> 00:57:57.267
I will only selectively look for and receive or accept information that proves

00:57:57.267 --> 00:58:02.507
or confirms what I'm already biased to wanting to have or wanting to prove.

00:58:02.507 --> 00:58:08.267
And also, I'm also going to be biased by excluding information that will go

00:58:08.267 --> 00:58:11.147
against the desired outcome that I want.

00:58:11.147 --> 00:58:14.027
And so with the confirmation hearings, you're seeing

00:58:14.027 --> 00:58:19.907
confirmation bias because individuals in Congress are only looking for information

00:58:19.907 --> 00:58:26.007
to say that they had a win or could highlight a positive while excluding the

00:58:26.007 --> 00:58:33.067
very glaring points of lack of competence and lack of character and lack of qualifications.

00:58:33.667 --> 00:58:37.407
And they're doing that to then just justify, yeah, well, I can vote for the

00:58:37.407 --> 00:58:41.167
person that I found out how many pushups they could do or we've all had affairs.

00:58:41.167 --> 00:58:45.247
So that means we shouldn't worry about character or this is the secretary of

00:58:45.247 --> 00:58:49.067
defense and you don't really have to be in the military or you don't have to

00:58:49.067 --> 00:58:50.827
have any real background to do that.

00:58:51.107 --> 00:58:55.627
And so by you minimizing or excluding facts, that's the same thing as you being

00:58:55.627 --> 00:58:59.827
biased in your confirmation of what you already want, which is you already just

00:58:59.827 --> 00:59:04.507
want to confirm whoever you want to confirm for whatever your other agenda is.

00:59:05.107 --> 00:59:08.707
Yeah, because if you try to simplify it like that, the U.S.

00:59:09.167 --> 00:59:14.367
Constitution says that to be on the Supreme Court, all you have to be is a citizen.

00:59:15.127 --> 00:59:17.047
But, you know, it would...

00:59:17.456 --> 00:59:21.616
You know, just common sense would say, it'd probably be good to have somebody

00:59:21.616 --> 00:59:26.036
that has a concept of the law and at least constitutional law, if nothing else, right?

00:59:26.576 --> 00:59:32.156
And it's also ironic and contradictory because then you also then can't say,

00:59:32.636 --> 00:59:36.916
well, if the person is a vice president of the United States,

00:59:37.096 --> 00:59:39.956
that she is automatically viewed as a DEI hire.

00:59:40.136 --> 00:59:44.316
So if you truly believe that there are no real qualifications other than being a U.S.

00:59:44.316 --> 00:59:48.256
Citizen to be on the Supreme Court or the Secretary of Defense,

00:59:48.516 --> 00:59:54.656
then why is it the only qualifications apply when it would exclude other individuals

00:59:54.656 --> 00:59:57.396
for having the opportunity that you desperately want?

00:59:57.836 --> 01:00:06.196
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that because, you know, what my concern always has been,

01:00:06.556 --> 01:00:14.076
if I had a chance to be in the Senate, my concern is that I want people to be

01:00:14.076 --> 01:00:17.896
able to look the President of the United States in the eye and say, no.

01:00:18.856 --> 01:00:23.956
It's like, if the President wants to do something and you're the Secretary of

01:00:23.956 --> 01:00:28.836
Defense or the Secretary of Homeland Security or whatever, I want you to be

01:00:28.836 --> 01:00:30.956
able to look at the President and say, no, Mr.

01:00:30.996 --> 01:00:34.016
President, we can't do that or we shouldn't do that. And here's why.

01:00:35.016 --> 01:00:40.216
What I'm looking at as far as the qualifications with the people that have been

01:00:40.216 --> 01:00:45.436
appointed this time, because the first term he had people that said no, and he didn't like that.

01:00:45.816 --> 01:00:52.196
So now he's getting sycophants, you know, for lack of a better term.

01:00:52.876 --> 01:00:58.816
And, you know, that that's the most disqualifying thing to me out of all of

01:00:58.816 --> 01:01:05.656
that because, you know, when they asked Hexf if he would allow,

01:01:06.968 --> 01:01:12.708
the National Guard or the U.S. military to shoot at protesters and he couldn't

01:01:12.708 --> 01:01:14.628
give a definitive answer to that.

01:01:15.448 --> 01:01:22.168
That should have been a non-starter for not only Democrats, but Republicans as well.

01:01:22.788 --> 01:01:24.888
But yeah, that's, yeah.

01:01:26.268 --> 01:01:33.848
I agree. I agree. Yeah. But you also have to think about when you have a decision,

01:01:33.848 --> 01:01:37.748
it's what are your end goals or your end game.

01:01:37.968 --> 01:01:42.308
And so for Trump, his end game is ultimate power.

01:01:42.648 --> 01:01:47.048
And, you know, as he even said, having people who follow him as they did Hitler.

01:01:47.408 --> 01:01:52.268
So for him, you don't really need to be intelligent or have character or qualifications

01:01:52.268 --> 01:01:56.988
or even education, because that's what he cares about less.

01:01:57.148 --> 01:02:03.488
And he cares more about who can I manipulate, putting these positions who have at least a, you know,

01:02:04.328 --> 01:02:08.848
a first grade education, but more importantly, they're, they're so desperate

01:02:08.848 --> 01:02:13.528
for being, you know, in a, in a winning position that they'll do what I say.

01:02:14.028 --> 01:02:20.668
So you have, that's part of selection bias. So he truly had competent people in place.

01:02:21.028 --> 01:02:26.188
There would be an easier confirmation process, but he didn't really choose competent people.

01:02:26.388 --> 01:02:32.348
He chose individuals from whom he could benefit and control. Yeah.

01:02:33.768 --> 01:02:39.088
So if I use the catchphrase, desperation leads to despotism,

01:02:39.448 --> 01:02:42.088
would I be off the mark saying that?

01:02:42.508 --> 01:02:48.708
No, I don't think you'd be off the mark. But I think with Trump, it's more of...

01:02:50.197 --> 01:02:58.197
A narcissistic rage, less desperation, but a narcissistic rage because he,

01:02:58.637 --> 01:03:02.457
you know, through narcissism, believes that he was not lost,

01:03:02.457 --> 01:03:04.157
but that the election was stolen.

01:03:04.157 --> 01:03:10.137
And so because that insulted his ego, then he is now going to just do whatever

01:03:10.137 --> 01:03:17.137
he needs to do to enact his rage and regain power and in his own mind,

01:03:17.297 --> 01:03:22.617
compensate for what he feels was a loss or an injustice enacted against him.

01:03:22.617 --> 01:03:28.517
Yeah, I was thinking more of people rather than the individual.

01:03:28.817 --> 01:03:34.437
Right. The desperation of people leads to despotism because people are like

01:03:34.437 --> 01:03:41.997
you mentioned before, they lack something and they feel that in order to gain something,

01:03:42.177 --> 01:03:47.237
they need to attach to something or somebody like a like a Donald Trump.

01:03:47.897 --> 01:03:51.957
Yes, I agree. I agree. Yes, definitely. Especially when you consider that many

01:03:51.957 --> 01:03:57.477
of the people that he has nominated lost their own election campaigns.

01:03:57.477 --> 01:03:59.477
I'm going to do an episode on that as well.

01:03:59.637 --> 01:04:03.997
But many of them lost their own re-election campaigns and multiple losses.

01:04:03.997 --> 01:04:06.777
And so now they're desperate to have a win.

01:04:06.817 --> 01:04:11.157
And someone just gave them, you know, the ultimate DI didn't earn it.

01:04:11.497 --> 01:04:17.037
And so they're just given these positions despite not even winning in their own cities or states.

01:04:17.357 --> 01:04:20.117
Yeah. So they are desperate. Like, oh, yeah, sure.

01:04:21.037 --> 01:04:25.337
Yeah. And in the case of, you know, like Rubio, he wanted to be president.

01:04:26.577 --> 01:04:30.817
Christy Noem, she wanted to be vice president. So this was her consolation prize.

01:04:31.457 --> 01:04:36.917
Yeah, I feel you on that. There are many African-Americans who are disillusioned

01:04:36.917 --> 01:04:42.577
with the political process, some before the election and a few more after.

01:04:43.017 --> 01:04:47.737
What advice would you give them to help navigate that disillusionment?

01:04:48.883 --> 01:04:54.943
Well, I would say it is hurtful to think that we were making progress.

01:04:55.563 --> 01:04:58.623
It's hurtful to see the truth.

01:04:58.903 --> 01:05:03.423
But now that you see the truth, when someone shows you who they truly are,

01:05:03.563 --> 01:05:09.343
when the country shows you who we really are, then respond from a place of knowledge

01:05:09.343 --> 01:05:10.923
rather than depression,

01:05:11.503 --> 01:05:16.243
meaning that, okay, well, now that I see that any progress that will be made

01:05:16.243 --> 01:05:21.583
for my race will have to come from me and me not looking to a president,

01:05:21.783 --> 01:05:27.983
not even a Black president, but me looking to how can I and my community educate ourselves,

01:05:28.223 --> 01:05:33.803
equip and economically empower ourselves so that we do have more power and we

01:05:33.803 --> 01:05:38.083
can start with making smaller changes, whether it's just teaching our own children

01:05:38.083 --> 01:05:40.783
about real history that has not been whitewashed,

01:05:40.963 --> 01:05:47.743
whether it's collectively organizing to support the election of sheriffs in

01:05:47.743 --> 01:05:51.083
our own country or in our own state so that we can have,

01:05:51.183 --> 01:05:56.463
or in our own county, so that we can have more legal protection among the police.

01:05:56.703 --> 01:06:01.923
So start with what you can do and empower yourself to not rely on someone else

01:06:01.923 --> 01:06:07.723
to do something for you, when right now we can see that so much is being done to take away from you.

01:06:08.583 --> 01:06:12.603
So I'm going to ask you a political, philosophical question.

01:06:14.023 --> 01:06:19.903
So one of the one of the great debates in American history was Booker T.

01:06:20.103 --> 01:06:21.983
Washington versus W.B. DeBoer.

01:06:23.083 --> 01:06:28.443
Booker T. Washington felt that we needed to build our own institutions,

01:06:28.863 --> 01:06:31.303
our own communities, our own schools, everything.

01:06:32.303 --> 01:06:40.103
And as long as we were allowed to coexist, everything would be OK.

01:06:41.123 --> 01:06:48.203
And W.B. Du Bois was of the notion that we always needed to have the right to

01:06:48.203 --> 01:06:50.143
integrate if we chose to.

01:06:50.143 --> 01:06:57.903
And we shouldn't be denied the opportunities to go to white schools or to patronize

01:06:57.903 --> 01:07:03.463
white businesses or live in communities that weren't just black communities.

01:07:04.283 --> 01:07:11.143
Do you feel that which one do you think we're we're heading toward now?

01:07:11.143 --> 01:07:16.183
Do you think that we're leaning more toward what Booker T wanted,

01:07:16.203 --> 01:07:21.463
or are we still on the pathway to achieve what Du Bois wanted?

01:07:22.309 --> 01:07:27.149
I would say more of Du Bois only because there are so many successful black

01:07:27.149 --> 01:07:33.309
people who are already in industries and positions and communities that are not all black.

01:07:33.589 --> 01:07:38.249
And so I don't think that the solution would be to just stick to ourselves,

01:07:38.249 --> 01:07:43.089
because that also would then imply that all white people are bad and don't care

01:07:43.089 --> 01:07:44.689
about equity or equality.

01:07:44.689 --> 01:07:49.409
So I wouldn't say that, but also you have to think about when it comes to systemic

01:07:49.409 --> 01:07:54.329
racism, that if you had an all-Black community, an all-Black college,

01:07:54.329 --> 01:07:56.089
if you had Black Wall Street,

01:07:56.569 --> 01:08:00.589
then individuals who are threatened by that, who don't want you to also have

01:08:00.589 --> 01:08:04.449
power and wealth, you know, they have come in and just taken stuff.

01:08:04.449 --> 01:08:07.869
You can even burn down the buildings, burn down the communities.

01:08:08.049 --> 01:08:12.109
You can even look currently at University of Tennessee versus Tennessee State University,

01:08:12.109 --> 01:08:16.809
where they are distributing money that comes from the government to be distributed

01:08:16.809 --> 01:08:22.389
equally and then unequally giving it more to the predominantly white institution

01:08:22.389 --> 01:08:25.709
and withholding at significant levels,

01:08:25.869 --> 01:08:30.849
giving the black school at least 33 percent less of what they are entitled to.

01:08:30.849 --> 01:08:36.629
So I think that just to say that you only can go in one area or just only be

01:08:36.629 --> 01:08:43.269
with black people, the smartest move is to actually infiltrate and to make moves from the inside out.

01:08:44.109 --> 01:08:53.969
Yeah. And the altruistic side of me, Doc, wants to believe that we still are,

01:08:53.969 --> 01:08:57.549
you know, pursuing the boys strategy.

01:08:57.549 --> 01:09:00.749
And I would I would I would think that would be more.

01:09:02.351 --> 01:09:09.211
Comprehensive and healthy, but just listening to some of the discussion and

01:09:09.211 --> 01:09:14.111
maybe X and social media is a bad place to listen to people,

01:09:14.131 --> 01:09:18.991
but there seems to be some strength at gathering in,

01:09:19.191 --> 01:09:23.831
and I guess it's no different than in the 60s when people were being challenged.

01:09:24.371 --> 01:09:28.631
You know, Dr. King was making his moves and the civil rights movement was making

01:09:28.631 --> 01:09:30.871
their moves, But there was a segment,

01:09:31.131 --> 01:09:34.971
a loud segment that was like, no, this ain't going to work because these,

01:09:35.191 --> 01:09:40.131
you know, and especially after Medgar and Martin and Malcolm were assassinated,

01:09:40.971 --> 01:09:46.191
you know, there was this, yeah, no, we just need to protect ourselves and not

01:09:46.191 --> 01:09:48.611
worry about them because they don't care about us.

01:09:48.611 --> 01:09:52.831
And so that's that's the reason why I asked you that question,

01:09:52.831 --> 01:09:58.171
because, you know, you're you're an intellectual and you you're you're involved

01:09:58.171 --> 01:09:59.891
in in in the discussions.

01:10:00.811 --> 01:10:04.311
I just wanted to kind of pick your brain on that, because that that's kind of

01:10:04.311 --> 01:10:10.451
my concern. I would I would like for us to continue to feel that America is

01:10:10.451 --> 01:10:14.111
a place where we can achieve in all sectors.

01:10:15.591 --> 01:10:21.891
But I'm afraid that this generation, even though they didn't see what we saw

01:10:21.891 --> 01:10:27.271
and we were young when that happened, but you might have been even a toddler when that happened.

01:10:27.431 --> 01:10:30.111
But, you know, it's like the.

01:10:31.482 --> 01:10:34.942
I just that's that's kind of the vibe I'm getting that.

01:10:35.562 --> 01:10:39.142
Well, I agree. I think that's one of the reasons why there was so much depression

01:10:39.142 --> 01:10:44.462
after the election, because it wasn't so much that Kamala lost or even if it

01:10:44.462 --> 01:10:45.982
would have been Biden who lost.

01:10:45.982 --> 01:10:51.622
It was the fact that there was such an overwhelming vote for someone who showed

01:10:51.622 --> 01:10:56.282
you that he lacked integrity or character, that he lacked qualifications,

01:10:56.282 --> 01:10:59.302
that he had no real intentions to help others,

01:10:59.422 --> 01:11:01.522
that he had blatant racism and sexism.

01:11:01.762 --> 01:11:04.702
But because the vast majority, well, because of the majority,

01:11:04.862 --> 01:11:11.142
not the vast, but because he turned so many states red, then that disillusionment,

01:11:11.262 --> 01:11:14.502
you know, was, I guess, shattered.

01:11:14.502 --> 01:11:19.202
Because it's like, wait a minute, that many people voted for someone over someone

01:11:19.202 --> 01:11:21.462
who was more qualified than he was.

01:11:21.622 --> 01:11:26.202
And so I think that sometimes you do have to be shaken up to see what the truth

01:11:26.202 --> 01:11:28.082
is and say, okay, well, now that I see,

01:11:28.242 --> 01:11:33.342
then it may not be that everyone has to be Booker T or everyone has to be Du

01:11:33.342 --> 01:11:37.962
Bois, but maybe it could be a combination where you can integrate and infiltrate,

01:11:38.202 --> 01:11:44.702
go and do that and become your best and do what's best for who and what is best for you.

01:11:45.102 --> 01:11:49.842
Your community, your race, or individuals who are like-minded and wanting a

01:11:49.842 --> 01:11:52.102
true and just America for all.

01:11:52.262 --> 01:11:57.502
And then for instances when individuals who only want white males to prevail,

01:11:57.882 --> 01:12:01.602
then focus on, okay, well now we'll do on focusing on just our own,

01:12:01.922 --> 01:12:06.582
protecting ourselves and not worrying about asking or waiting for someone who

01:12:06.582 --> 01:12:09.662
really doesn't want anyone to succeed other than themselves,

01:12:09.922 --> 01:12:11.422
other than white males to succeed.

01:12:11.682 --> 01:12:14.582
Then let me not wait for them to change their mind because they there's

01:12:14.582 --> 01:12:17.822
no benefit to them giving up their power or preferential

01:12:17.822 --> 01:12:20.602
treatment yeah all right

01:12:20.602 --> 01:12:26.262
so let me let me close with this and i always wish i could talk to you for a

01:12:26.262 --> 01:12:31.922
long long time what what should be done because this is this is something that

01:12:31.922 --> 01:12:38.942
i dealt with when i was elected and you know years later i just think we've

01:12:38.942 --> 01:12:40.562
we totally dropped the ball.

01:12:41.122 --> 01:12:45.022
And now this problem is exacerbated.

01:12:45.122 --> 01:12:50.202
So my question to you is, what should be done from a policy standpoint to improve

01:12:50.202 --> 01:12:53.282
the treatment of mental health in America?

01:12:55.382 --> 01:13:03.202
I think that it should be one, some of the wording has been changed to behavioral

01:13:03.202 --> 01:13:07.522
health, but usually your behavior first comes from your thoughts.

01:13:07.602 --> 01:13:12.862
So that would be mental health. So I think it would first have to be seen as

01:13:12.862 --> 01:13:17.922
an essential component of health rather than a bonus treatment.

01:13:18.202 --> 01:13:25.102
And so I think the policies could be that it is essential and to not and to include that and to not.

01:13:25.964 --> 01:13:33.544
Have it attacked or piecemealed because you're trying to avoid other parts that

01:13:33.544 --> 01:13:35.304
are associated with mental health.

01:13:35.484 --> 01:13:42.464
And what I mean by that is there are recent legislative attempts to say that you can't have.

01:13:42.744 --> 01:13:48.264
They're going to remove medical school funding or health school health department

01:13:48.264 --> 01:13:54.184
funding if they include anything that focuses on race or gender.

01:13:54.184 --> 01:13:57.144
But they or even different

01:13:57.144 --> 01:14:00.324
police fields or even states such as homelessness or

01:14:00.324 --> 01:14:03.224
a state of living such as homelessness and so

01:14:03.224 --> 01:14:06.764
if you try to exclude that police are

01:14:06.764 --> 01:14:09.784
more likely to have an unconscious bias

01:14:09.784 --> 01:14:15.064
that black men are intimidating and therefore more likely to shoot them if you

01:14:15.064 --> 01:14:20.144
are less likely to understand that people are often homeless or unhoused because

01:14:20.144 --> 01:14:29.184
they have ptsd or that a black female will have even higher breast density than a white female,

01:14:29.184 --> 01:14:34.344
if you try to eliminate all factors because you're trying so desperately to

01:14:34.344 --> 01:14:40.124
say that we don't want any preferential treatment given to anyone other than white males,

01:14:40.124 --> 01:14:46.364
then that includes you limiting what true components of mental health is or are.

01:14:46.604 --> 01:14:49.844
Mental health encompasses everything. If you're going to have a good day,

01:14:49.944 --> 01:14:53.244
a bad day, how you respond to someone, your relationship choices.

01:14:53.344 --> 01:14:58.444
And if you have underlying self-esteem issues, depression, trauma,

01:14:58.444 --> 01:15:01.544
or just having passed down generational.

01:15:02.104 --> 01:15:06.484
You know, conditions for your health, meaning more predisposed to schizophrenia,

01:15:06.884 --> 01:15:10.404
even more predisposed to having an addiction,

01:15:10.904 --> 01:15:14.544
then if you kind of just take, you know, if you're just being so,

01:15:14.624 --> 01:15:18.544
as you said, desperate to not have any racial equity or equality,

01:15:18.544 --> 01:15:25.444
then that's where mental health is being attacked and suffering across all of the policies.

01:15:26.044 --> 01:15:28.784
So, of course, I think it's essential to have it.

01:15:29.557 --> 01:15:32.377
But because people are trying to say that it doesn't really apply,

01:15:32.797 --> 01:15:39.137
then it's an uneducated approach that's actually making us more unhealthy.

01:15:39.597 --> 01:15:42.897
You also have to think about one reason. Let me know if I'm talking too long

01:15:42.897 --> 01:15:44.477
also, Eric. No, you're doing good.

01:15:44.997 --> 01:15:48.597
Okay. And I also have to think about one reason why some individuals don't want

01:15:48.597 --> 01:15:52.677
to focus on the real consequences of mental health is because in Congress,

01:15:52.677 --> 01:15:55.377
it may tie to their donors or their PACs.

01:15:55.377 --> 01:16:00.237
So you can't say that we really want to focus on the reason why young white

01:16:00.237 --> 01:16:05.017
males are more likely to engage in mass shootings is a mental health issue,

01:16:05.017 --> 01:16:10.157
in addition to them having easier access to guns over a black male.

01:16:10.517 --> 01:16:15.437
And so they don't want to address the associated barriers that come along with

01:16:15.437 --> 01:16:20.257
mental health because it would go against their own position or their own wealth

01:16:20.257 --> 01:16:21.437
or their self-preservation.

01:16:21.437 --> 01:16:27.177
So a lot of reasons why mental health is being overlooked is because individuals

01:16:27.177 --> 01:16:31.357
don't they find ways that it will negatively impact them in their career.

01:16:32.017 --> 01:16:35.657
Yeah. Well, one of your other skills other than listening is mind reading,

01:16:35.777 --> 01:16:39.357
because I sure was going to ask you that follow up about, you know,

01:16:39.497 --> 01:16:45.077
the mental health and and related to the mass shootings, because,

01:16:45.117 --> 01:16:51.097
you know, just my experience, it was like you would cut the state budget for

01:16:51.097 --> 01:16:52.057
mental health every year.

01:16:52.057 --> 01:16:57.697
But then you wanted to ease the restrictions on keeping records of ammunition

01:16:57.697 --> 01:17:03.117
and where people could carry guns and all that kind of stuff and not see the

01:17:03.117 --> 01:17:06.417
correlation of how that was how bad that was going to be.

01:17:06.637 --> 01:17:09.917
So, yeah, no, they don't want to see it. They want to be like,

01:17:09.977 --> 01:17:12.237
well, no, we want to improve mental health. You don't want it.

01:17:12.417 --> 01:17:16.537
We don't want to include or be accountable for how we are perpetrating unhealthy

01:17:16.537 --> 01:17:18.637
mental states. Exactly.

01:17:19.277 --> 01:17:25.237
Yeah. So that was that was perfect. So, look, how can people listen to the podcast?

01:17:25.517 --> 01:17:26.557
How can people get in touch?

01:17:26.897 --> 01:17:29.077
I didn't mean perpetrating. I meant perpetuating.

01:17:30.097 --> 01:17:31.997
Just as a nerd, I'll make sure I'm speaking clearly.

01:17:33.697 --> 01:17:37.637
OK, sorry. You know, perpetrating might have fit well, too.

01:17:38.297 --> 01:17:43.457
But but how can people get in touch with you and stay up to date with what you're doing?

01:17:44.464 --> 01:17:47.564
Well, definitely you can follow me on Instagram at Dr.

01:17:47.644 --> 01:17:54.924
Rene Carr and at Politics and Psychology, as well as on Blue Sky and Facebook and LinkedIn.

01:17:55.224 --> 01:18:03.964
And the website is www.drrenecarr.com. So it's D-R-R-E-N-E-E-C-A-R-R.com.

01:18:04.444 --> 01:18:11.444
Yeah. And again, it will, you know, people keep asking me if I'm going to run

01:18:11.444 --> 01:18:14.184
for anything ever again in life. And I keep telling them, you know,

01:18:14.264 --> 01:18:19.064
that was 25, 20, almost, yeah, yeah, 25 years ago.

01:18:19.284 --> 01:18:23.964
And so, you know, probably not going to do that. But if I do decide,

01:18:24.244 --> 01:18:28.004
you're going to be on that list that I'm going to call and talk to because I'm

01:18:28.004 --> 01:18:30.984
going to need somebody like you on my team.

01:18:31.564 --> 01:18:37.804
Definitely. It would be an honor. Well, it's been an honor to have you on the podcast again, Dr.

01:18:37.964 --> 01:18:48.484
And I enjoy listening to you. you break stuff down really, really easy for people to digest.

01:18:49.224 --> 01:18:53.264
Oh, good. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do a real excellent job at that.

01:18:53.404 --> 01:19:03.664
And so if people want to get a psychology viewpoint of a psychological, I guess, better term,

01:19:04.084 --> 01:19:09.524
viewpoint of the political state that we're in, I suggest y'all listen to politics

01:19:09.524 --> 01:19:13.324
and psychology because because Dr. Carr, you do a good job.

01:19:13.504 --> 01:19:17.224
So again, thank you very much. Oh, you're welcome. And thank you for coming

01:19:17.224 --> 01:19:19.284
on the podcast again. I appreciate you.

01:19:19.924 --> 01:19:23.504
Thank you. I'll talk to you next time. All right, guys, and we'll catch y'all on the other side.

01:19:25.360 --> 01:19:35.760
Music.

01:19:35.784 --> 01:19:41.904
All right. And we are back. So let me thank Ianta Summers and Dr.

01:19:42.004 --> 01:19:52.004
Renee Carr for, again, gracing our presence, gracing us with their presence, rather, on the podcast.

01:19:52.804 --> 01:19:58.624
It is always good to talk to those sisters. They are very, very strong,

01:19:58.904 --> 01:20:00.964
intelligent, capable sisters.

01:20:01.424 --> 01:20:04.684
And I find inspiration in both of them.

01:20:06.624 --> 01:20:14.324
And like all of us of a certain age, you know, we've been dealing with stuff

01:20:14.324 --> 01:20:17.444
personally and professionally for a while.

01:20:19.284 --> 01:20:23.084
And, you know, all of us can consider ourselves survivors.

01:20:24.484 --> 01:20:28.324
But now we're about to enter a new territory.

01:20:29.124 --> 01:20:33.644
And I thank them for offering their insights and how to navigate it.

01:20:33.644 --> 01:20:37.004
And what they would like to see happen,

01:20:38.479 --> 01:20:44.379
during this period. All I want to add to that is what I've been telling people

01:20:44.379 --> 01:20:47.679
is just to stay focused and engaged.

01:20:48.579 --> 01:20:57.579
As you watch the confirmation hearings, it is pretty apparent that we don't have leaders.

01:20:58.119 --> 01:20:59.899
We have followers.

01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:06.379
And they've been elected or appointed in leadership positions,

01:21:07.159 --> 01:21:15.999
but these are not the men and the women that would stand in the breach or bridge the gap if needed.

01:21:17.499 --> 01:21:24.719
And it's a shame because some of them have qualifications that would indicate.

01:21:25.599 --> 01:21:31.599
Some of them don't have any qualifications at all other than Donald Trump likes

01:21:31.599 --> 01:21:38.159
them, right? But the reality is that we don't have leaders.

01:21:38.799 --> 01:21:46.159
So in a moment where leadership is lacking, it's time for us to step up.

01:21:46.899 --> 01:21:51.119
So I'm not going to hold you all long with this.

01:21:51.119 --> 01:21:57.559
I just I just want to continue to stress the fact that even more so now we have

01:21:57.559 --> 01:22:02.299
to be focused and engaged because now we see if you've been following the hearings,

01:22:02.459 --> 01:22:03.999
you see what we're dealing with.

01:22:05.559 --> 01:22:13.759
You know, you got somebody who is about to be attorney general and she claims

01:22:13.759 --> 01:22:18.059
she never heard any quotes from people that she's going to be working with in

01:22:18.059 --> 01:22:21.559
the public sphere at all. Yeah, I'm not buying that.

01:22:23.436 --> 01:22:32.836
I'm not buying these confessions of faith and not confession of the sin, right?

01:22:35.716 --> 01:22:45.836
You know, and as much as I'm really embarrassed by the senators who beat somebody

01:22:45.836 --> 01:22:48.156
that had been in office for a long time,

01:22:48.176 --> 01:22:52.736
and your debut is you're going to ask a man how many push-ups he's done?

01:22:53.436 --> 01:22:58.016
Really, that's where we're going with that? That's the first impression you

01:22:58.016 --> 01:23:00.576
want to give to the American people,

01:23:00.596 --> 01:23:04.116
that you're concerned about how many push-ups a human being has done.

01:23:05.136 --> 01:23:10.136
That's why I say we, and I say this with every fiber of my being,

01:23:10.396 --> 01:23:14.216
we don't have leaders, and we need them.

01:23:15.516 --> 01:23:20.636
But until the leadership emerges, it's time for us to do work.

01:23:21.176 --> 01:23:23.156
So I'm asking you all to stay focused.

01:23:23.976 --> 01:23:29.976
Stay engaged, keep listening to the podcast, keep supporting people who are

01:23:29.976 --> 01:23:35.996
doing the work in the communities, and together we're going to get to it.

01:23:36.416 --> 01:23:40.476
All right, guys, as always, thank you for listening, and until next time.

01:23:42.960 --> 01:24:28.575
Music.