Bipartisanship & Revival Featuring Jordan Colvin, Bremond MacDougall and Lisa Cooper

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Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

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truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

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Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

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listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

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make this moment a movement.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

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And today I have three ladies coming on.

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Two of them have worked together on a project to create a publishing company

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that has a very unique niche that I think you as listeners would greatly appreciate,

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especially those of you who are politically minded.

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Although the works are fiction, they have some relevance, especially in today's

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society. So I think you'll enjoy that.

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And then I have a young lady who is really a star in D.C. politics.

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You may have seen her on CNN.

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And if you're part of that D.C. political scene, you probably run into her on

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the Hill somewhere, or, you know, some of the functions, but she is a very special person,

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and she attracted my attention because she is a believer in bipartisanship.

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So the theme of this podcast is bipartisanship and revival, two things that

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we greatly need in this nation. We need to have a spirit of bipartisanship and

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we need to have a spirit of revival.

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And when I mean revival, I mean a revival of what is good and what is great

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about our nation as opposed to anything else.

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So I wanted to interview these ladies and I was given the opportunity to do

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show and I hope that you enjoy the conversations.

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As always now, we are still making our pitch to get 20,000 subscribers on Patreon.

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So go to patreon.com slash a moment with Erik Fleming and subscribe. It's only a dollar.

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And I promise you, I promise you, if we can get to 20000 subscribers,

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this podcast will go on as long as y'all want me to go.

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I think this will, you know, it will definitely last through this term for our current president.

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And, you know, and hopefully we'll bring on some quality guests like you've

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got on today and, you know, stir up some discussion and keep you informed about what's going on.

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We need as much encouragement as we possibly can.

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And I'll probably get into a little bit of that toward the end of the show,

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as always, with a little commentary. But it's really now time to kick this thing off.

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And as always, we start off the podcast with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Music.

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Thanks, Erik. President Trump stated he would not fire Federal Reserve Chair

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Jerome Powell, but reiterated demands for lower interest rates. The U.S.

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Supreme Court temporarily blocked

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deportations of Venezuelan migrants following urgent ACLU petitions.

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Nationwide protests erupted for the second time this year against Trump's deportation

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policies, government firings, and foreign conflicts.

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Senator Dick Durbin announced his retirement, sparking a 2026 Democratic primary

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battle in Illinois as the party debates its future direction.

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The Justice Department abruptly ended over 365 grant-supporting programs for

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crime victims, anti-trafficking efforts, and youth safety.

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A federal appeals court rejected the Trump administration's request to revoke

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temporary protections for 350,000 Venezuelan migrants. The U.S.

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Department of Education will resume collecting defaulted student loans starting

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May 5, impacting over 5 million borrowers.

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A judge halted mass firings at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau after

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allegations the Trump administration violated court orders by dismissing up

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to 90 percent of its workforce. A U.S.

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Judge blocked parts of President Trump's executive order on federal election

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rules, preventing enforcement of citizenship checks for voter registration but

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allowing restrictions on late mail-in ballots.

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An Illinois judge sentenced Robert Cremo III to life in prison without parole

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for a 2022 mass shooting that killed seven and injured over 40.

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Patrick Crucius, the 2019 El Paso, Texas Walmart shooter, received life without

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parole after pleading guilty to murder charges.

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A federal judge blocked the Trump administration from dismantling U.S.-funded

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media outlets like Voice of America.

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A federal jury in Manhattan ruled the New York Times not liable in Sarah Palin's

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2017 defamation lawsuit over a gun control editorial.

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Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico have reached 687, and Pope Francis died at the age of 88.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

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Music.

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All right, thank you, Grace, for that Moment of News.

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And now it is time for my guest, Jordan Colvin.

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A powerful government public affairs expert recognized for her exceptional ability

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to develop breakthrough strategies and bipartisan solutions and consensus.

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Jordan has built a decades long reputation in Washington, D.C.

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With her deep understanding of politics and policy and her ability to advance

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legislative agendas on both sides of the aisle.

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She is the rare professional who prepares clients with discipline and insight,

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establishing meaningful relationships with legislators, their staff,

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executive branch agencies, and private sector stakeholders.

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Jordan began working with private sector clients after serving as legislative

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director for Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer from the 5th District, New Jersey,

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where she led the congressman's robust portfolio of bipartisan work on the House

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Financial Services and Homeland Security Committees and chairmanship of the

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bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus.

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During her tenure, Congressman Gottheimer introduced the bipartisan,

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a bicameral Invest to Protect Act, which passed in both chambers.

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Jordan has also served as the legislative director for a Republican member of

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Congress and as a policy advisor and investigator for the United States Senate

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Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs.

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She also served on the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Homeland Security as a law clerk.

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Jordan's previous professional roles include working with both private sector

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clients and professional trade associations to develop effective government

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and stakeholder engagement strategies.

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In 2018, Jordan served as the campaign manager for a political campaign that

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won the Democratic nomination in Maryland's first congressional district,

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which set record for voter turnout and fundraising.

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She has also served as a chief of development for a veteran service organization

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and vice president of public affairs for a public for a political advocacy organization.

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Earlier in her career, Jordan worked as a police officer, FBI task force on

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human trafficking at the Washington Metropolitan Police Department.

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In 2020, Jordan worked on the Biden for President campaign as a Veterans and

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Military Families for Biden event coordinator.

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Jordan is the founder and current board member of the Association of Service

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Dog Providers for Military Veterans,

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a nonprofit whose mission is to advocate on behalf of veterans service organizations

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to help military veterans heal from trauma by pairing them with psychiatric service dogs.

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In 2021, President Biden signed into law the PAWS Act, legislation that Jordan

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developed on the Hill and the impetus for launching ASDP-MV.

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Jordan holds a Juris Doctorate from the David A.

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Clark School of Law at the University of the District of Columbia and a Bachelor

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of Arts from the George Washington University.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

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on this podcast, Jordan Colvin.

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Music.

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All right. Jordan Colvin. How you doing, ma'am? You doing good?

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I'm good. How are you today? I'm doing great now that you're here.

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I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on my little old podcast and

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share some of your wisdom and some of your story.

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Because I ran across you, one, on CNN, and then you're part of a group called

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the Permitting Institute, which is fascinating.

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So I'll let you talk a little bit about that and a whole bunch of other things,

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whatever we can fit into in the interview.

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But usually I like to, being an old facilitator, I like to do icebreakers.

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So my first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.

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And this one's pretty long, but I felt it was pertinent to the conversation.

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The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge,

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natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetuated

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the most horrid enormities, is itself frightful despotism.

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But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism,

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that its orders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men

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to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual.

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And sooner or later, the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more

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fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his

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own elevation on the ruins of public liberty.

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I know that was a lot, but what does that quote mean to you?

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Wow, Erik. You know, I was a cop.

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I was a beat cop my first job. So I was not a, you know, I took poli-sci in

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college. I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

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So the first part of it, I was really listening in on I think it was talking

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about dissension and polarization.

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It was identifying themes of that and inter-party strife, which I think is relevant.

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I, you know, I, I'm Jewish. I'm, I'm an Ashkenazi Jew.

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So I'm very sensitive from my family's experiences in history.

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My vast majority of my family died in the Holocaust in Eastern Europe.

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A few people made it to Israel, some, some, and the ones that were here are okay, obviously.

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But looking back at the history and seeing the, the

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similarities in things in American politics

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right now and i don't like alarmism and i don't like

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direct comparisons to the holocaust of

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anything that exists today everything in its own unique place but

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it never gets anywhere and it does foment dissension it doesn't it doesn't bring

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anybody together it doesn't get anything accomplished i think that that's sort

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of the simple end of it that that's what i'm picking up from that very complex

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which i will want to if you can email that to me after i'd like to like take that apart.

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Yeah. You know, you went to George Washington University. So I picked a quote

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from George Washington.

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That was from his farewell address.

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And it's one that is used a lot to talk about.

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He didn't like political parties. He basically felt that political parties would

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be the demise of the nation.

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He said, you know, it's just vote for the best individual rather than vote, you know, party line.

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So, and that, and they, a lot of scholars say that's the reason why he didn't

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want to run for a third term because he saw that coming.

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Yeah. But I'll, I'll send you that. That'll be, that'll be good.

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So the second icebreaker is I need you to pick a number between one and 20.

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Seven. Okay. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about Politics,

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current events, health, et cetera. Oh, wow.

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I think that a broad variety, I love a good sub stack.

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I have found my, I listen to a lot of different podcasts.

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I listen to a lot of clips from the Times of London, Al Jazeera,

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just all over the world, trying to listen that are done in English or are translated

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in to get different perspectives.

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BBC, Times of London, always very interesting how they approach things,

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especially in Ukraine right now and the Middle East.

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I think good old school news sources combined with there's some great journalists

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out there who are working solo now that are doing incredible work.

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Tara Palmieri is a friend of mine.

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She's she's out there doing political stuff. She covers things.

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There's you know I follow she's doing her own thing now you know being in DC

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you interact with a lot of journalists and you sort of understand who who you

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think is savvy and has integrity,

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and you shift towards them so I consume a lot and I use discernment and judgment

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as to what informs my opinions or thoughts so you were talking about that you

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were originally a law enforcement officer.

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And so I have a law enforcement background, too. So how did you get into politics?

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I worked, when I left college, I went to GW, as you mentioned, in D.C.

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I had done a bunch of internships at federal law enforcement agencies.

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And so I wanted to be, I thought at that point, I wanted to be a federal agent.

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And they said the best way to do that is go work for a local police department.

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So I thought, local police department, that's D.C. police.

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So I joined the D.C. Police Department. And I was very, very quickly put on

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what was at the time the prostitution enforcement unit, which has since changed

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the name to the human trafficking department.

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And they were part of the FBI's task force against human trafficking,

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which was Project Innocence Lost. I believe it's still an active task force with the FBI.

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I saw how terrible the policy was for victims of trafficking in every respect.

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You had to arrest children, primarily young girls of color, predominantly.

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You had to arrest them in order to get them into services. We had to give them a criminal charge.

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Now, these are children. They cannot sign a permission slip to go on a field

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trip for school, but we're charging them with solicitation of prostitution.

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I could not wrap my brain around that.

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And at the time, there was a 50-state effort with the attorney generals,

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the bipartisan attorneys generals group, I forget their name,

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to decriminalize prostitution for children because,

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I mean, it doesn't make sense.

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And that has since been done, all that work. But that really motivated me.

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I thought, I need to go to law school and I needed to go into policy.

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And I thought that, you know, that was the path I wanted to take at that point in my life. Yeah.

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Yeah, you know, with me, I always wanted to be in politics.

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I know I wanted to be president when I was three years old, but I've always

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wanted to be in politics. And as I got older and started doing it,

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so like I said, I have a similar background as far as law enforcement.

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And it didn't hurt that I was with the sheriff's office when I ran for the state

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legislature, because it's nothing like B cops in uniforms knocking on doors

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saying, vote for this guy.

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You know what I'm saying? That helps out a lot.

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I think that is. Yes, that is. I think that technically is a violation of the Hatch Act.

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But, you know, I. This is Mississippi. We didn't care about the Hatch Act back then.

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I can only imagine. Yeah, I think that what I didn't take for what I often took

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for granted for many years after leaving law enforcement was the skills that it gave me.

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People would say, like, you had this job as a cop. Like, what did you get from

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it? And even going and applying for jobs in different policy areas or on the Hill.

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Well, you did this, and they treated it like it was a waste on my resume.

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And since then, I've really reframed that experience because that time in my

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life was incredibly valuable. From a political standpoint, working in politics,

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right, I can talk to anybody.

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I find it hard to find a human being that I can't interact with in a meaningful

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and authentic way and communicate with them.

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And I also know when I'm not communicating with somebody or it's not getting

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through, which I think is a really valuable tool that I gained from that experience.

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But also, working a job like that, a sense of service drove me to that.

00:20:05.527 --> 00:20:09.727
I think it's aligned with working in politics or policy, serving other people,

00:20:09.887 --> 00:20:13.187
wanting to make the world a better place, making your community a better place.

00:20:14.291 --> 00:20:19.391
I probably would have gone into the military. However, my little brother beat

00:20:19.391 --> 00:20:25.251
me to that, and he was actually deployed to Afghanistan while I was a beat cop.

00:20:25.431 --> 00:20:32.051
So my poor mother, that was not fair to her. I had to be at least stateside.

00:20:32.911 --> 00:20:36.651
But I think that it's an undervalued experience for a lot of people.

00:20:36.911 --> 00:20:41.431
And I think a lot of people that shouldn't be drawn to that job are drawn to that job.

00:20:41.891 --> 00:20:49.031
I'm a five foot four woman. I'm a small person. I couldn't bully people around with my physicality.

00:20:49.471 --> 00:20:55.331
I had to connect with them in order to get them to listen to me or follow a lawful order.

00:20:55.751 --> 00:20:58.811
So it was a valuable experience and I'm very grateful for it.

00:21:00.291 --> 00:21:03.851
So you are a big deal.

00:21:04.031 --> 00:21:10.011
And when I say that, it's like political has this thing called a playbook, I think it's called.

00:21:10.451 --> 00:21:16.971
And it's like, you know, if you're at a party, this is Jordan Colvin and list

00:21:16.971 --> 00:21:18.331
all the other people that are at the party.

00:21:18.491 --> 00:21:21.791
It was like when your child was born, it was like, yeah, she had a baby.

00:21:21.951 --> 00:21:28.151
So you've always kind of had some attention. And I think that's a tribute to the work that you do.

00:21:28.651 --> 00:21:34.151
But you ran into, when you got hired by Representative Gottheimer.

00:21:35.071 --> 00:21:40.031
Gottheimer, Josh Gottheimer is running for New Jersey governor, vote for Josh.

00:21:40.291 --> 00:21:44.211
But it started up a little controversy when you got hired for him.

00:21:44.491 --> 00:21:52.771
What was the big deal behind that? And what was your take on those kind of political attacks?

00:21:53.649 --> 00:21:57.129
So you're talking about the Intercept article that they did on me.

00:21:57.629 --> 00:22:00.449
That was a fun day. Just started a new job.

00:22:01.769 --> 00:22:06.389
And so I was working for Congressman Gottheimer as his legislative director.

00:22:07.269 --> 00:22:12.449
Josh is the most bipartisan member of the House consistently.

00:22:12.489 --> 00:22:17.909
There is a scoring system that comes out of a political thing at Georgetown,

00:22:18.109 --> 00:22:19.349
and I'm forgetting the name of it.

00:22:19.549 --> 00:22:23.329
But he has the most, he's my most bipartisan member of Congress.

00:22:23.329 --> 00:22:28.309
And the score is based on legislation that you both vote for and that you sponsor.

00:22:28.309 --> 00:22:31.649
And if it's sponsored by both a Republican and a Democrat,

00:22:32.069 --> 00:22:36.189
he was also at that time the chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus in the House,

00:22:36.369 --> 00:22:43.629
which has been a bipartisan group of members of Congress that really can whip votes.

00:22:43.769 --> 00:22:48.829
They, you know, IIJA, Problem Solvers Caucus, got a bunch of votes on that.

00:22:48.829 --> 00:22:52.429
The burn pit bill that was done for veterans.

00:22:53.489 --> 00:22:56.069
Josh went, got a bunch of Republicans on board with that bill.

00:22:56.689 --> 00:22:58.569
Huge piece of legislation, huge impact.

00:22:58.869 --> 00:23:02.629
Josh, I think it was something like 27 Republicans came over and voted on a Democrats bill.

00:23:04.389 --> 00:23:07.909
I went to work for him to help him understand parts of his district.

00:23:08.589 --> 00:23:12.929
By the way, at the time I was a registered Democrat, I had fully converted.

00:23:12.929 --> 00:23:18.009
I think that that article being written about me, so The Intercept is a very

00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:21.309
progressive far left media outlet.

00:23:22.871 --> 00:23:26.151
I think it says the things about Democrats that I don't like,

00:23:26.411 --> 00:23:33.131
which is that no matter what I had done, it was not I was not accepted as a Democrat yet.

00:23:33.811 --> 00:23:37.931
It was as if my, you know, I don't like trial by fire, conversion by fire.

00:23:37.991 --> 00:23:39.911
I don't know what they require, a blood offering.

00:23:39.971 --> 00:23:43.971
I don't know what you have to do to be fully accepted. But it was like somehow

00:23:43.971 --> 00:23:48.811
I was not accepted. It was not she had done this so she can never.

00:23:49.911 --> 00:23:53.691
I don't understand, you know, as I said earlier, I'm Jewish,

00:23:53.831 --> 00:23:57.871
so I don't really understand if there's like some sort of like atonement process

00:23:57.871 --> 00:24:03.571
or what sort of religious experience is required for a conversion.

00:24:04.591 --> 00:24:07.711
But I think that that's what it said was that they didn't accept that.

00:24:07.711 --> 00:24:14.451
And I think the juxtaposition to the MAGA movement and that is fascinating because

00:24:14.451 --> 00:24:18.731
MAGA, man, they got Tulsi Gabbard, they got RFK.

00:24:18.851 --> 00:24:22.531
Now, I'm not saying that Democrats want to keep Tulsi Gabbard and RFK,

00:24:22.831 --> 00:24:30.551
but I think that was a pretty good deal coming over to Democrats from the Republican side.

00:24:30.551 --> 00:24:34.151
And as I always said, you know, my beliefs never changed.

00:24:34.311 --> 00:24:36.471
My political beliefs never changed. The party changed.

00:24:37.011 --> 00:24:40.551
I've always and I continue to be. Government is scaffolding.

00:24:41.331 --> 00:24:44.551
It's guardrails. It is supposed to facilitate people.

00:24:45.731 --> 00:24:49.951
It's a hand up, not a handout. It's supposed to facilitate people's life being wonderful.

00:24:50.251 --> 00:24:54.431
And it needs to stay out of people's personal lives. It needs to stay out of

00:24:54.431 --> 00:24:55.371
their medical decisions.

00:24:56.341 --> 00:25:01.501
It is only in cases, you know, regulation, and this is like my work with TPI,

00:25:01.881 --> 00:25:06.841
there are times that it's necessary to have regulations around clean air, water.

00:25:07.281 --> 00:25:15.021
There's also times that it's onerous and unnecessary and creates costs and time

00:25:15.021 --> 00:25:19.701
and both time and money that don't help Americans and don't help taxpayers.

00:25:19.981 --> 00:25:22.921
So my beliefs have never changed. It's the party that changed.

00:25:24.301 --> 00:25:31.621
And I'm really proud that I'm a Democrat and I'm sad that The Intercept felt

00:25:31.621 --> 00:25:34.281
it was necessary to write that piece.

00:25:34.441 --> 00:25:36.601
I think it was more of an attack on Josh than anything.

00:25:37.101 --> 00:25:42.401
Also, it really crossed a lot of lines because the rule in D.C.,

00:25:42.401 --> 00:25:47.141
the unspoken rule, is that you don't write about staffers unless they do something bad.

00:25:47.421 --> 00:25:50.921
So you get a DUI, you get arrested. Okay, you get written about.

00:25:50.921 --> 00:25:53.681
But otherwise you don't go out there and attack them

00:25:53.681 --> 00:25:56.561
individually it was unnecessary I didn't

00:25:56.561 --> 00:25:59.581
appreciate it it certainly it wasn't helpful

00:25:59.581 --> 00:26:02.381
but you know I gotta go get it printed and

00:26:02.381 --> 00:26:07.681
framed I think like it is my jet fuel so you know the more they hate you right

00:26:07.681 --> 00:26:11.661
the more they're talking about you the better off you are yeah yeah that's that's

00:26:11.661 --> 00:26:16.401
that's one of the things they tell you in politics you know I think you're right

00:26:16.401 --> 00:26:20.621
it was like for the congressman see he was not

00:26:20.921 --> 00:26:25.461
And you know this, he was he was not a rubber stamp for President Biden.

00:26:26.301 --> 00:26:34.781
And I think a lot of people on the more more radical left progresses, if you want to say that.

00:26:35.808 --> 00:26:42.228
Looked at you coming in from a DeSantis administration as, oh,

00:26:42.368 --> 00:26:47.908
well, he's getting ready to really screw Biden over because he's picking DeSantis people to work.

00:26:48.068 --> 00:26:52.668
It wasn't necessarily, from what I understand and just understanding politics,

00:26:52.868 --> 00:26:56.028
it wasn't necessarily personally against you.

00:26:56.248 --> 00:26:59.868
I think you read it right that it was more against the congressman and trying

00:26:59.868 --> 00:27:01.308
to figure out what he's going to do.

00:27:01.848 --> 00:27:06.368
And, you know, he's going to have an interesting time in New Jersey,

00:27:06.608 --> 00:27:12.068
but I think, you know, he knows the politics of the state well, and he'll hold his own.

00:27:12.648 --> 00:27:17.748
But I think that was the whole gist of that. I think they were coming after

00:27:17.748 --> 00:27:19.248
him more than coming after you.

00:27:19.488 --> 00:27:26.368
But again, you know, as my friend used to say, that builds the legend, right?

00:27:26.868 --> 00:27:32.428
And you've gotten tougher and stronger and sharper because of that. Yeah.

00:27:32.848 --> 00:27:37.228
And, you know, staffers, a very important thing that I talk to young congressional

00:27:37.228 --> 00:27:43.088
staffers about is nobody cast a single vote for you. You are a staffer.

00:27:43.608 --> 00:27:47.948
Your job is to look at everything through the lens and filter of the member

00:27:47.948 --> 00:27:49.188
of Congress that you work for.

00:27:49.788 --> 00:27:54.028
You are providing them recommendations based on their previous policy positions.

00:27:54.628 --> 00:27:56.808
You represent them. They are your client.

00:27:58.008 --> 00:28:01.028
How you feel about this personally does not matter.

00:28:01.708 --> 00:28:04.728
It's how they think about it, and that's how you're supposed to do it.

00:28:04.808 --> 00:28:09.188
And, you know, when I worked for Congressman DeSantis at the time, I did that for him.

00:28:10.588 --> 00:28:14.088
And when I worked for Josh, did the same thing. Yeah.

00:28:14.468 --> 00:28:19.508
And what people need to understand about that, that, that culture in the Capitol

00:28:19.508 --> 00:28:25.268
is that once you get in as a staffer, you're, you're an invaluable asset.

00:28:25.688 --> 00:28:29.968
And, and people who are smart take advantage of that.

00:28:30.448 --> 00:28:35.148
My college classmate, Glenn Rushing, was one of the best to ever do it.

00:28:35.248 --> 00:28:41.048
And he got in like in his late twenties and now he's a big time lobbyist up

00:28:41.048 --> 00:28:46.648
there too. And, you know, but he was able to jump from one congressman to another.

00:28:46.828 --> 00:28:50.668
And he, you know, even if he went to work for a congressman from another state,

00:28:51.068 --> 00:28:55.888
somebody from Mississippi always pulled him back, you know, because he had that experience.

00:28:56.588 --> 00:29:00.988
And there was a couple of people I knew that ended up just staying in that cycle.

00:29:01.888 --> 00:29:06.248
But one of the reasons, one of the other reasons why you were you're in demand

00:29:06.248 --> 00:29:10.708
is because one of your incredible attributes is your bipartisanship.

00:29:11.288 --> 00:29:16.228
So as somebody who has tried to be professional and to be bipartisan,

00:29:16.768 --> 00:29:21.088
do you feel that you're the last of a dying breed or is there hope on the horizon

00:29:21.088 --> 00:29:24.448
based on the politics that we see now?

00:29:25.168 --> 00:29:27.748
I think that things are the worst that they've ever been.

00:29:29.074 --> 00:29:33.414
And I think my answer six months ago would have been more optimistic.

00:29:35.394 --> 00:29:39.434
There, you know, there was a bipartisan effort to get the CHIPS Act passed.

00:29:40.774 --> 00:29:46.634
And every year, Congress, bipartisan, they put together the National Defense

00:29:46.634 --> 00:29:49.554
Authorization Act, the NDAA, and they pass it.

00:29:50.754 --> 00:29:57.414
And in the past year, like these things are, you know, Trump is disassembling

00:29:57.414 --> 00:30:01.554
chips and doing the same thing that was already done, that's already been passed.

00:30:01.814 --> 00:30:04.474
Right. And but he doesn't like it because Biden's name is on it.

00:30:05.014 --> 00:30:09.654
And I say that because there was so much behind-the-scenes bipartisanship on

00:30:09.654 --> 00:30:13.414
the CHIPS Act, understanding that the common enemy was China.

00:30:13.674 --> 00:30:16.714
It wasn't Democrats, it wasn't Republicans, it was that we had to counter China.

00:30:16.714 --> 00:30:24.114
I think that there are still efforts on the Hill where there is bipartisanship behind closed doors.

00:30:24.894 --> 00:30:32.314
What is scary is that members of Congress are more and more the bipartisanship

00:30:32.314 --> 00:30:37.154
that was always going on behind closed doors is becoming more and more.

00:30:37.154 --> 00:30:41.774
There's less the security of the, quote, doors being closed.

00:30:42.634 --> 00:30:50.514
It doesn't appear that the integrity of a closed-door conversation or the necessity

00:30:50.514 --> 00:30:52.574
of must-pass legislation.

00:30:54.274 --> 00:31:00.054
Soundbites, being on Twitter, making a stink, getting your face out there with

00:31:00.054 --> 00:31:03.054
some, you know, oh, you did this today in a hearing or you did that,

00:31:03.374 --> 00:31:06.434
appears to be more important to members of Congress now,

00:31:07.847 --> 00:31:10.827
than getting things done for their constituents. And I know there's a lot of

00:31:10.827 --> 00:31:12.047
talking heads that say that.

00:31:12.547 --> 00:31:16.067
And I was reticent to believe that that was actually happening.

00:31:16.847 --> 00:31:21.947
But I really do see that. And it's hard because I think sometimes there's valuable

00:31:21.947 --> 00:31:29.107
points that are made when members of Congress behave badly to be called out by other members.

00:31:29.207 --> 00:31:32.847
And there's certain people I think about who do a good job of calling out stupid

00:31:32.847 --> 00:31:37.287
behavior and disrespectful, unprofessional behavior that,

00:31:37.847 --> 00:31:42.387
I'm going to allude to something that is clearly somebody trying to fundraise

00:31:42.387 --> 00:31:45.727
or get that right soundbite for their fundraising pitch.

00:31:46.467 --> 00:31:50.707
But at the same time, it's still distracting from getting work done because

00:31:50.707 --> 00:31:54.127
those hearings, having been a staffer, those congressional hearings,

00:31:54.547 --> 00:31:59.607
when they're they are serious, there's a limited amount of time you are crushing to get things into them.

00:31:59.607 --> 00:32:03.047
They are a lot of work to put together for staff.

00:32:03.387 --> 00:32:06.627
And when these members derail them and they go off the train,

00:32:06.927 --> 00:32:09.727
they go, you know, they go off the track and they're, you know, going nuts.

00:32:10.787 --> 00:32:13.447
There's so much valuable work for the American people that are lost,

00:32:13.747 --> 00:32:16.527
that's lost with that. Because those hearings function as oversight.

00:32:16.827 --> 00:32:20.427
Also, sometimes bills are introduced at the end of them. Legislation has to

00:32:20.427 --> 00:32:23.827
pass those hearings in order to get to the House floor to get voted on.

00:32:24.767 --> 00:32:31.207
So I guess in a roundabout way, I don't know if the bipartisanship that is necessary

00:32:31.207 --> 00:32:34.147
to pass bills, especially with the margins right now in the House.

00:32:34.967 --> 00:32:37.507
I don't know. I don't know. I'm less

00:32:37.507 --> 00:32:40.887
optimistic. I want to be eternally optimistic, but I'm also realistic.

00:32:41.567 --> 00:32:47.087
Yeah. Yeah. I have the same. I have the same thing because people ask me,

00:32:47.347 --> 00:32:52.867
you know, why don't you get back into politics and run and stuff like that?

00:32:52.867 --> 00:32:58.787
And I said, when I was in the state legislature in Mississippi, it was a different time.

00:32:58.947 --> 00:33:04.647
It was it was not crazy for me to talk to Republicans and say,

00:33:04.687 --> 00:33:08.367
I need you to vote for this bill or, you know,

00:33:08.807 --> 00:33:14.367
you know, just just funny stories about how I'm pushing an amendment.

00:33:14.367 --> 00:33:16.527
And it seemed like all the Republicans like it.

00:33:16.687 --> 00:33:19.167
So the Democrats start worrying about it. You know what I'm saying?

00:33:19.487 --> 00:33:23.767
I mean, those were those were the good old days. I said now I don't I don't

00:33:23.767 --> 00:33:26.627
know how many fights I would have got in I don't know how many people I would

00:33:26.627 --> 00:33:30.987
have cussed out and I you know I did did my share of cussing out folks back in the day but.

00:33:31.964 --> 00:33:38.224
I think it would just be, I don't know. I don't, I'm just from a different, different time.

00:33:38.404 --> 00:33:41.004
And I kind of have that, that same concern.

00:33:41.884 --> 00:33:48.684
So, you know, it's, it's refreshing to talk to somebody like you who still believes

00:33:48.684 --> 00:33:50.644
in the principle of getting stuff done.

00:33:50.824 --> 00:33:55.544
And I think that, that if we can get some more folks with that same mindset,

00:33:55.884 --> 00:33:59.544
we might get offset some of the stupidity, as you mentioned.

00:34:00.104 --> 00:34:05.104
And speaking about that, Go ahead. Compromise is a huge part of our lives, like everyday lives.

00:34:05.324 --> 00:34:08.244
Who are people that, you know, when there's this idea in politics,

00:34:08.464 --> 00:34:12.324
like, oh, no compromise, this, we're going to, it's this or this.

00:34:13.064 --> 00:34:16.404
How do the people who say that, I just want, like, how are their lives?

00:34:16.664 --> 00:34:21.144
What are their personal relationships like? You got to meet people in the middle.

00:34:21.404 --> 00:34:23.204
You got to meet people where they are.

00:34:23.684 --> 00:34:28.024
Getting your, I mean, I have a seven-year-old son and, you know,

00:34:28.104 --> 00:34:30.284
he can put up a real stink about things.

00:34:31.184 --> 00:34:34.684
And like seven-year-olds are very good and they're very good at negotiating.

00:34:34.864 --> 00:34:39.964
They will break you down, especially mine. He is brilliant and he just will break me down.

00:34:40.064 --> 00:34:44.904
But I am trying to teach him, you know, you're not going to get your way all the time.

00:34:45.324 --> 00:34:48.384
Even, you know, it's, and also have

00:34:48.384 --> 00:34:51.104
you considered maybe that your way of doing something isn't the best

00:34:51.104 --> 00:34:54.324
way of doing it the idea that that compromise

00:34:54.324 --> 00:34:58.544
we will not i hear this in democratic speeches

00:34:58.544 --> 00:35:03.924
and talks and social media no it's republicans are doing this like no meet in

00:35:03.924 --> 00:35:08.024
the middle compromise is not a dirty word it's not every nobody's gonna you

00:35:08.024 --> 00:35:11.924
know like many things nobody should go home happy everybody should be a little

00:35:11.924 --> 00:35:15.924
bit annoyed but you got something done yeah and i think you You know,

00:35:16.144 --> 00:35:18.364
when you campaign and, you know,

00:35:18.744 --> 00:35:21.604
you say this is what I want to do.

00:35:21.944 --> 00:35:27.344
And then when you get there, it's like, how much of what I want to do can I get done?

00:35:27.564 --> 00:35:34.784
Once you start developing relationships and understanding the process once you're in.

00:35:35.484 --> 00:35:39.784
Yeah. You know, but like you said, there's people now who don't get it.

00:35:39.904 --> 00:35:45.824
So let me throw a scenario at you. Let's just say that President Trump,

00:35:45.844 --> 00:35:52.944
you know, calls you and says, look, I need your advice on on some issues.

00:35:53.484 --> 00:35:58.424
What would you how would you advise them dealing with tariffs,

00:35:59.104 --> 00:36:07.664
immigration and this whole D.A.I.A., I guess, removal or whatever.

00:36:08.784 --> 00:36:12.424
What's your thoughts about those particular issues that you would like to tell

00:36:12.424 --> 00:36:15.504
the president and say, hey, look, I need you to look at it from this perspective?

00:36:16.985 --> 00:36:24.545
Wow. Again, love the loaded question. So, Tara, I, well, I keep it pretty simple.

00:36:24.825 --> 00:36:27.965
I'm not going to make pokes at the president. He is the president.

00:36:28.185 --> 00:36:30.885
But I'd say I keep my comments pretty simple to him.

00:36:31.025 --> 00:36:35.905
And to keep it simple, I'd say your secretary of the treasury is worth $500 million.

00:36:35.905 --> 00:36:43.605
And he is talking about what he feels everyday Americans value and don't value

00:36:43.605 --> 00:36:49.085
and that they they value certain things over cheap trinkets from China.

00:36:49.545 --> 00:36:55.205
I don't think Scott Bessent has gone to Costco and bought. He talked about flat screen TVs.

00:36:55.445 --> 00:36:57.545
He's made some comment about let them eat flat screen TVs.

00:36:57.845 --> 00:37:02.865
He probably has not bought a TV for himself or set that TV up in his home,

00:37:03.025 --> 00:37:05.505
much less gone to Costco.

00:37:05.905 --> 00:37:08.665
You know, or Sam's Club or wherever in years.

00:37:09.865 --> 00:37:17.125
His perspective is, it speaks to this idea that we have these billionaires making

00:37:17.125 --> 00:37:19.685
decisions for everybody else.

00:37:19.965 --> 00:37:25.385
And it's not going to translate to voters. Voters do care about the cost of everyday goods.

00:37:25.725 --> 00:37:28.645
They care about how much gas costs to put in the tank of their car.

00:37:28.765 --> 00:37:35.645
They also care that, as I just did this morning, the cap to my gas tank in my car broke off.

00:37:35.905 --> 00:37:38.865
And guess where that part is made? China.

00:37:39.565 --> 00:37:43.205
I have a very good feeling that there is no way to get that part made in the

00:37:43.205 --> 00:37:44.345
United States in a quick manner.

00:37:45.819 --> 00:37:50.279
And these are things that everyday Americans think about. And if that cap goes

00:37:50.279 --> 00:37:54.579
from costing $25 to replace, and I'm just ballparking because I don't actually know how much.

00:37:54.879 --> 00:37:57.759
So listeners, please keep that in perspective.

00:37:57.979 --> 00:38:03.179
If it goes from being $25 for that gas cap cover to $75, Americans are going to care.

00:38:03.359 --> 00:38:06.219
That's that cheap stuff from China that Scott Besson is talking about.

00:38:06.919 --> 00:38:11.559
This is going to be, the people making these decisions and coming out with this

00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.479
policy are so far out of touch.

00:38:14.099 --> 00:38:17.219
They're trying to protect their billions of

00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:19.999
dollars and they don't understand that most americans don't

00:38:19.999 --> 00:38:23.179
even have a 401k and that most americans

00:38:23.179 --> 00:38:26.159
are thinking about these costs because

00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:30.379
these everyday costs do matter to them and it's going to have a major impact

00:38:30.379 --> 00:38:34.199
on them and at the end of the day you know i was talking to my dad the other

00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:39.899
week and he said you know people will they'll let the look past schools being

00:38:39.899 --> 00:38:43.519
shot up they'll look past children being taken away from their parents at the border,

00:38:43.839 --> 00:38:46.319
but they will not have their wallet impacted.

00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:50.139
They will not have their retirement funds impacted. And I think that there's

00:38:50.139 --> 00:38:51.699
always truth to that. People vote with their wallet.

00:38:51.899 --> 00:38:55.499
I always learn that in Republican politics, and I try to carry it to Democratic politics.

00:38:56.199 --> 00:39:01.299
And I'm still just, you know, preaching it, and hopefully it'll stick at some

00:39:01.299 --> 00:39:02.779
point with the people that I get to interact with.

00:39:03.399 --> 00:39:06.139
As far as immigration goes, I think it speaks to the same

00:39:06.139 --> 00:39:11.279
thing like the data you know what's going on with deportations right now if

00:39:11.279 --> 00:39:16.839
if the goal is deterrence he's doing a great job right you're scaring the crap

00:39:16.839 --> 00:39:21.899
out of people in fact you're scaring the crap out of american citizens bypassing

00:39:21.899 --> 00:39:24.139
due process that is well established.

00:39:25.600 --> 00:39:32.580
For individuals is going to cost the American taxpayers so much money in the

00:39:32.580 --> 00:39:35.540
long run when the litigation occurs over this.

00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:42.700
And I meant to look it up before our talk, but the previous Trump administration

00:39:42.700 --> 00:39:46.440
separating children at the border, there was a court settlement on that.

00:39:46.600 --> 00:39:49.100
I believe it was a judgment by the judge. I don't think it was necessarily settled,

00:39:49.220 --> 00:39:50.800
but the government was fined.

00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.040
I want to say something like upwards of $800 million. dollars.

00:39:54.820 --> 00:39:57.720
And there was a good breakdown about how much that was going to cost individual

00:39:57.720 --> 00:40:00.740
taxpayers for separating children at the border.

00:40:01.460 --> 00:40:08.420
So if we bypass due process at one point, it will come to bite us in the butt through litigation.

00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.700
So what's going on right now? Yeah, you know, you may scare people.

00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.420
You may have people fleeing the country because they don't want to get rounded up by ice.

00:40:14.780 --> 00:40:17.080
Deterrence, great. You know, sure, that's going to work for you.

00:40:17.700 --> 00:40:21.160
But bypassing due process is just going to cost us money in the long run.

00:40:21.640 --> 00:40:26.360
Doing things like this is going to cost in the long run. There's no fast,

00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:27.600
easy, and cheap measure.

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:33.140
So that's how I feel about that. As far as DEI goes, I think you probably saw

00:40:33.140 --> 00:40:38.800
on CNN when this was initially getting brought up during Secretary Hegseth's

00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:43.320
nomination, now, you know, him as the Secretary of Defense.

00:40:43.700 --> 00:40:49.620
I talked about DEI in the context of women serving in combat roles in the military.

00:40:51.140 --> 00:40:55.980
I, we had a war in two fronts, right? Afghanistan and Iraq.

00:40:56.640 --> 00:41:00.620
And we couldn't talk to half of the people there because they were women and

00:41:00.620 --> 00:41:01.600
male soldiers couldn't go in

00:41:01.600 --> 00:41:04.040
and talk to them. Male military members couldn't go in and talk to them.

00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:11.140
And DOD realized that this was a really big issue and they opened up positions in places for women.

00:41:12.180 --> 00:41:17.620
And now, since that has happened, combat roles, women are going through the

00:41:17.620 --> 00:41:20.200
special operations schools, the ranger schools, SEALs.

00:41:20.720 --> 00:41:26.340
And it's not a lot of women, but they're incredible women. And they are meeting

00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:29.140
the standards, the same standards that men are.

00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:34.060
They're a valuable asset to that. And had that not been open to them previously,

00:41:34.080 --> 00:41:35.640
they weren't even allowed to apply for it.

00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.180
Now it's being open. Nobody's lowering any standards.

00:41:39.797 --> 00:41:43.877
This DEI, the way it's being approached, it entirely comes,

00:41:44.077 --> 00:41:51.757
the broader aspects of it come across as a talking point that appeals to people

00:41:51.757 --> 00:41:57.437
in their lowest form, that they want to blame somebody else for something.

00:41:58.577 --> 00:42:03.697
And, you know, we had, I think, talking to a friend the other day about this,

00:42:03.837 --> 00:42:07.717
it's the blowback from having a Black family in the White House for eight years.

00:42:08.237 --> 00:42:12.637
And it's a way that people can put their racism in a box and say,

00:42:12.797 --> 00:42:15.497
see, it's this, it's, this is the problem.

00:42:16.277 --> 00:42:19.677
And at the end of the day, going after it is just some sort of dog whistle.

00:42:19.817 --> 00:42:22.677
It's not even a very good dog whistle. It seems pretty overt to me.

00:42:23.937 --> 00:42:29.197
And I think it's going to blow back at the end because it's unworthy of the

00:42:29.197 --> 00:42:31.757
time that it's being taken, you know, is being taken for it.

00:42:31.897 --> 00:42:37.317
The benefits of DEI and the private sector have been shown.

00:42:37.337 --> 00:42:41.137
And there's organizations, there's corporations that are fighting back and saying,

00:42:41.217 --> 00:42:43.997
look, we're not going to, you know, we're not going to change our current policies.

00:42:44.017 --> 00:42:47.977
This is working for us. If it's making money for somebody, they're not going to change that policy.

00:42:48.177 --> 00:42:52.597
If it's helping them attract a better workforce, they're not going to change that policy.

00:42:53.157 --> 00:42:56.357
And there's plenty of CEOs that are standing up on that value and saying,

00:42:56.457 --> 00:42:58.737
look, this is making my company a better company.

00:42:59.397 --> 00:43:02.377
So I'm not changing it. I'm not going to change my policy around it.

00:43:03.977 --> 00:43:07.477
And I think that the Republican, the old Republican in me would say,

00:43:07.677 --> 00:43:09.117
look, the market forces are at play.

00:43:09.617 --> 00:43:14.517
There they are. These CEOs saying, hey, I like this. It's working for us.

00:43:14.697 --> 00:43:16.057
Sorry, we're not going to change what we're doing.

00:43:16.777 --> 00:43:21.537
Those that don't want to, I think the market forces will respond to them as well.

00:43:22.097 --> 00:43:27.217
And I think that at the end of the day, it's a really big distraction from a

00:43:27.217 --> 00:43:28.717
lot of the other stuff that's going on.

00:43:28.717 --> 00:43:40.397
And while it deserves our time and attention, it is being done to placate people's, you know,

00:43:41.297 --> 00:43:43.837
dog whistle racism, for the lack of better way of saying it.

00:43:44.637 --> 00:43:48.737
Yeah. You know, it's fascinating to me that.

00:43:50.132 --> 00:43:55.212
One of the things that the president wanted to tout when he was campaigning

00:43:55.212 --> 00:44:00.232
was how many Latinos were voting for him.

00:44:00.572 --> 00:44:06.832
You know, there was always somebody with a Blacks for Trump shirt on in the

00:44:06.832 --> 00:44:08.092
background of his rallies.

00:44:08.692 --> 00:44:15.912
You know, just, you know, trying to show that he had a diverse group of support

00:44:15.912 --> 00:44:20.032
to run and then eventually win.

00:44:20.512 --> 00:44:25.492
And then they come up with a policy that says, yeah, well, you know,

00:44:25.672 --> 00:44:28.312
screw all that. You know, I don't want to see that.

00:44:29.052 --> 00:44:35.452
One thing about campaigning is that, like I said before, you have your ideas.

00:44:35.452 --> 00:44:40.752
But then when you get out there and and certain dynamics happen,

00:44:40.992 --> 00:44:46.092
that also shapes how you approach your job if you're if you're fortunate enough to get elected.

00:44:46.492 --> 00:44:51.432
And it just seems like to me that if if if people say, well,

00:44:51.512 --> 00:44:56.172
you know, he's people say, well, he's a sham and all this stuff. He lies all the time.

00:44:56.732 --> 00:45:01.652
I think the biggest evidence is the fact that you use as diverse a coalition

00:45:01.652 --> 00:45:06.172
as you could get. because he wasn't going to get the majority of the Asian American vote.

00:45:06.332 --> 00:45:09.252
He wasn't going to get the majority of Latino vote. He wasn't going to get the

00:45:09.252 --> 00:45:15.252
majority of the black vote, but he got enough to propel him in.

00:45:16.072 --> 00:45:20.632
And it would seem like to me at that point, it would have been like if he was,

00:45:20.632 --> 00:45:26.952
you know, observing like that and say, you know, let's hold off on this DEI

00:45:26.952 --> 00:45:29.812
stuff because, you know, I did get some black vote.

00:45:29.952 --> 00:45:34.632
I did get, I did get a lot of Latino vote. I did get some vote from the Asian American community.

00:45:35.212 --> 00:45:40.952
It's like, let's see how these policies would impact them and,

00:45:40.952 --> 00:45:44.332
you know, and make decisions off of that.

00:45:44.332 --> 00:45:50.272
If he was, if he was truly a statesman, that's the best word I'll use.

00:45:51.052 --> 00:45:54.892
Yeah. I mean, he benefited from people,

00:45:55.212 --> 00:45:59.532
I think for a lot of people who would vote, or the only way I can understand

00:45:59.532 --> 00:46:04.012
voting for him, if you fit into one of those groups,

00:46:04.292 --> 00:46:13.332
is that you do not want to face the reality that if you're a Black American, at one point, like,

00:46:13.572 --> 00:46:15.472
if you served in the military after

00:46:15.472 --> 00:46:20.652
World War II, you were denied the GI benefits that were promised you.

00:46:21.192 --> 00:46:25.912
And you were redlined into crappy neighborhoods to buy your home.

00:46:25.912 --> 00:46:29.172
So you were denied the ability to develop generational wealth.

00:46:30.355 --> 00:46:34.475
I mean, denial, a lot of people live in denial. They don't want to face,

00:46:34.535 --> 00:46:37.955
you know, the reality that things went wrong.

00:46:38.175 --> 00:46:40.515
And I mean, also part of it is, you know, things went wrong,

00:46:40.635 --> 00:46:44.135
bad things happen, and you have to move past that and make, you know.

00:46:45.395 --> 00:46:49.875
You know, it just is what it is, accept it and try to make the best of it.

00:46:49.875 --> 00:46:56.035
But I think that there's just a denial that maybe those individuals face.

00:46:56.115 --> 00:46:58.535
And that's a bigger part of our mental health crisis in our country,

00:46:58.535 --> 00:47:00.655
perhaps. I don't know how to answer that one.

00:47:01.355 --> 00:47:06.295
Yeah, yeah. Well, we could have a whole show on mental health because that's one of my issues.

00:47:08.375 --> 00:47:12.035
But I've taken up a good bit of your time and I don't want to take up too much more.

00:47:12.175 --> 00:47:15.335
But I did want to get a couple other questions in.

00:47:15.475 --> 00:47:18.375
I wanted you to plug a couple of things that you're involved with.

00:47:18.375 --> 00:47:23.615
So in 2018, you helped your husband run for Congress.

00:47:24.015 --> 00:47:30.295
Is 2026 the time for you to step out there and run?

00:47:30.915 --> 00:47:37.195
Erik, so kind of you. So it was such a success, my Jesse running for Congress,

00:47:37.315 --> 00:47:38.295
that we're now divorced.

00:47:39.135 --> 00:47:42.255
So, you know, obviously that's my terrible joke.

00:47:42.415 --> 00:47:49.095
But we, I helped my then husband, Jesse Colvin, run against Andy Harris in Maryland's

00:47:49.095 --> 00:47:50.015
first congressional district.

00:47:50.195 --> 00:47:52.515
It was a very Republican district. Jesse ran as a Democrat.

00:47:53.595 --> 00:47:57.715
You know, Jesse, that district in particular, first of all, it was very gerrymandered

00:47:57.715 --> 00:48:01.455
to be, it's the only Republican district in Maryland.

00:48:01.855 --> 00:48:06.035
They've since done a redistricting that's made certain parts a little bit more

00:48:06.035 --> 00:48:09.395
Republican, but that one is still, like, very Republican.

00:48:10.575 --> 00:48:16.815
It was a fantastic experience in learning. I mean, just a PhD in a lot,

00:48:16.895 --> 00:48:19.755
in so many different topics is what I always described it as.

00:48:20.875 --> 00:48:24.975
It's a massive congressional district. I think it's the second largest east of the Mississippi.

00:48:26.895 --> 00:48:34.315
I am not insane, so I would never run for Congress. You have to be nuts to do it.

00:48:34.415 --> 00:48:36.775
It is the hardest thing to do.

00:48:37.035 --> 00:48:39.875
If you are not individually wealthy, which we were not,

00:48:41.121 --> 00:48:46.181
And certainly not after getting divorced. You don't have like a helicopter or a driver or income.

00:48:46.401 --> 00:48:50.541
So the entire campaign, I was working to make money, to pay our bills,

00:48:50.701 --> 00:48:53.921
and he was campaigning. I was also helping him run the campaign.

00:48:54.061 --> 00:48:56.581
And I was pregnant with our son at the time.

00:48:57.601 --> 00:49:01.901
So, you know, one spouse has to work and still maintain a normal life and then

00:49:01.901 --> 00:49:03.221
take care of a newborn baby.

00:49:04.341 --> 00:49:08.681
With, you know, even logistics of health insurance in that situation are difficult.

00:49:09.521 --> 00:49:13.481
Running for Congress is extremely expensive, and it's extremely time-consuming.

00:49:13.761 --> 00:49:16.241
You spend the majority of your time, instead of talking to voters,

00:49:16.441 --> 00:49:21.061
you spend it fundraising, talking to rich people about how if they help you

00:49:21.061 --> 00:49:25.121
get elected, you know, you're going to care about the issue that they care about,

00:49:25.441 --> 00:49:27.861
which sometimes are great issues and sometimes aren't.

00:49:28.001 --> 00:49:32.501
And there are some really amazing wealthy donors out there that are awesome,

00:49:32.541 --> 00:49:34.761
and they just care about supporting really great candidates,

00:49:34.921 --> 00:49:35.661
and they do amazing things.

00:49:35.661 --> 00:49:40.821
Like they, they're awesome people and they are in a position and they use that

00:49:40.821 --> 00:49:43.181
position to help amazing people.

00:49:43.761 --> 00:49:48.501
But no, I'm not clinically insane. So I would never run for Congress.

00:49:49.001 --> 00:49:54.441
It is unless I was, you know, clinically insane and incredibly individually

00:49:54.441 --> 00:49:55.841
wealthy and could do that.

00:49:56.381 --> 00:50:01.161
I'm also I have a seven-year-old son and Oh my goodness. He's amazing.

00:50:01.441 --> 00:50:04.821
And I guess he'll be a few years older than no I I still love I love spending

00:50:04.821 --> 00:50:11.881
time with my kid I love riding horses and spending time with my friends and

00:50:11.881 --> 00:50:13.341
Talking to people like you.

00:50:14.361 --> 00:50:17.521
And in running for congress, you don't have that it is the hardest thing And

00:50:17.521 --> 00:50:23.261
so I respect members of congress is as dumb as their antics can be I respect

00:50:23.261 --> 00:50:25.561
them because it is a hard job,

00:50:26.161 --> 00:50:30.941
And you end up, these ones that fly in from far away or inconvenient places

00:50:30.941 --> 00:50:32.421
where you have to take multiple connections.

00:50:32.421 --> 00:50:40.441
I worked for Senator Coburn, and she had to fly one flight inside Oklahoma and then Oklahoma to D.C..

00:50:41.698 --> 00:50:47.918
It's a lot. So, no, I'm sorry. I don't have the sacrifice or the commitment

00:50:47.918 --> 00:50:50.258
to do it. So thank you for asking.

00:50:50.898 --> 00:50:54.858
Well, you know, as somebody that has run for the U.S. Senate and real quick,

00:50:54.978 --> 00:50:58.198
you know, a joke, it's a real story.

00:50:58.658 --> 00:51:03.638
The first time I ran for the U.S. Senate, we had a national legislative conference

00:51:03.638 --> 00:51:07.778
and I'm sitting at a table with guys from Connecticut and Rhode Island and other states.

00:51:08.398 --> 00:51:12.938
And they saw my Fleming U.S. Senate shirt on because I think it was like the

00:51:12.938 --> 00:51:13.918
last day of the conference.

00:51:14.958 --> 00:51:19.878
And they said, oh, you're running for the U.S. Senate in Mississippi? I said, yeah.

00:51:20.438 --> 00:51:24.858
And then one of the guys turned around and said, hey, guys, we got a millionaire at our table.

00:51:25.058 --> 00:51:27.978
And I said, no, sir, I'm not a millionaire and stuff.

00:51:28.178 --> 00:51:31.538
He said, oh, correct it. We have a billionaire at our table. What y'all got?

00:51:31.718 --> 00:51:37.198
You know, so I definitely understand that, you know, I was neither one of those,

00:51:37.218 --> 00:51:41.398
but the finance commitment, the sacrifice you had to make, because I think my

00:51:41.398 --> 00:51:44.938
child was, the first time I ran, like three years.

00:51:45.803 --> 00:51:49.983
But, you know, one of the enduring pictures is him pointing at my yard sign, you know.

00:51:51.243 --> 00:51:55.003
But, yeah, it's just, yeah, I understand the sacrifice. I do.

00:51:55.743 --> 00:52:00.823
Michelle is on this book. I think she really outlined it. She was very candid

00:52:00.823 --> 00:52:03.343
about how miserable it was.

00:52:03.583 --> 00:52:06.783
So when people ask her, she always, you know, she's like, and I'm like,

00:52:06.883 --> 00:52:08.863
oh, no, believe that woman. She is very serious.

00:52:10.003 --> 00:52:13.703
She is 10 times over what I did, and she does not want to do that.

00:52:14.783 --> 00:52:18.983
So finally, what's the deal with FaceTiming in public and crew socks?

00:52:19.123 --> 00:52:22.203
You seem like you're not a big fan of those. well i

00:52:22.203 --> 00:52:25.643
okay eric let's get something right i love

00:52:25.643 --> 00:52:29.163
crew socks i love socks yes i

00:52:29.163 --> 00:52:32.003
i tend to kick my ankles when i walk i

00:52:32.003 --> 00:52:37.003
don't know there's probably some name for that walking gate issue where i attended

00:52:37.003 --> 00:52:42.903
so crew socks are great for me i love crew socks so that was a great question

00:52:42.903 --> 00:52:47.903
that they had on abby phillips show she is amazing and we were talking what's

00:52:47.903 --> 00:52:50.683
in and what's out for 2024, 2025.

00:52:51.503 --> 00:52:55.223
And the crew socks, actually, she and I had extensive conversations about the crew socks afterwards.

00:52:55.363 --> 00:52:59.043
She's like, I think this is just a ploy to get people to spend more money on

00:52:59.043 --> 00:53:02.363
all new socks and these very expensive socks that Aloe Yoga brand makes.

00:53:02.543 --> 00:53:05.203
I was like, I don't know, perhaps, but have you tried those socks?

00:53:05.263 --> 00:53:06.303
They're actually quite fantastic.

00:53:06.763 --> 00:53:10.083
They're probably made in China too. FaceTiming in public.

00:53:11.123 --> 00:53:15.203
I don't like that either. And I, that was brought up on the show.

00:53:15.363 --> 00:53:18.703
It's, it's pretty obnoxious. However, I do have a seven-year-old and

00:53:18.703 --> 00:53:22.143
he loves to facetime his grandparents and

00:53:22.143 --> 00:53:28.623
sometimes it is in public but i write it off as he's so darn cute and people

00:53:28.623 --> 00:53:31.683
generally laugh when they see him doing it he's also figured out how to change

00:53:31.683 --> 00:53:36.403
the emojis on the face so he can turn himself into like a dog or octopus so

00:53:36.403 --> 00:53:41.183
it's okay if you're a cute little kid and i love my crew socks love my crew socks.

00:53:42.337 --> 00:53:47.437
All right. So it's time to do some plug-ins. So you work for the Permitting Institute.

00:53:47.737 --> 00:53:51.577
Kind of explain what the role of that organization is.

00:53:51.717 --> 00:53:58.737
And then you have an organization that you started, Association of Service Dog Providers.

00:53:59.037 --> 00:54:06.277
Talk about those two groups. So right now I have a role with the Permitting

00:54:06.277 --> 00:54:08.417
Institute, which is a 501c6.

00:54:08.597 --> 00:54:13.877
It's a trade association for a lot of different companies and nonprofits and

00:54:13.877 --> 00:54:16.497
think tanks. And we work on reforming permits.

00:54:16.677 --> 00:54:19.137
My friend Alex Hergott is the CEO. He founded it.

00:54:19.577 --> 00:54:23.617
Alex is a Republican. He was a staffer for Senator Inhofe and the Senate Public

00:54:23.617 --> 00:54:24.997
Environment and Public Works Committee.

00:54:25.657 --> 00:54:28.797
My saying about Alex is that he will forget more

00:54:28.797 --> 00:54:31.797
about permitting in the

00:54:31.797 --> 00:54:34.437
United States than I will ever know he had a

00:54:34.437 --> 00:54:37.717
role at NEPA he was in the Trump the first Trump White House doing all sorts

00:54:37.717 --> 00:54:41.997
of permitting reform with Department of Transportation and we basically just

00:54:41.997 --> 00:54:48.577
work with lots of different groups to help build out strong messaging and bring

00:54:48.577 --> 00:54:53.517
together really good ideas for how to streamline any effort that involves,

00:54:53.537 --> 00:54:55.917
you know, putting a shovel in the ground in the United States,

00:54:56.057 --> 00:54:58.457
be it a, you know,

00:54:58.677 --> 00:55:04.477
energy transmission issue to mining reforming to get mines started.

00:55:04.617 --> 00:55:07.297
You know, that's going to be a huge effort to, you know, there are some critical

00:55:07.297 --> 00:55:11.117
minerals of mines in the United States, but getting a mine set up in the United

00:55:11.117 --> 00:55:14.077
States takes five times longer than it does anywhere else in the world.

00:55:14.257 --> 00:55:18.837
How can we both, you know, protect the environment, but help these projects

00:55:18.837 --> 00:55:21.937
streamline, reduce costs, get American companies in there.

00:55:22.217 --> 00:55:25.977
So that's one of the efforts I work with. The Association of Service Dog Providers,

00:55:26.117 --> 00:55:29.877
I started that when I worked for, right after I left Congressman DeSantis'

00:55:30.097 --> 00:55:34.377
office, I saw that there was the need for a trade association in the service

00:55:34.377 --> 00:55:38.997
dog provider space, but specifically for military veterans, because there were

00:55:38.997 --> 00:55:44.977
a lot of, there's a traditional service dog trade association that for traditional disabilities,

00:55:45.177 --> 00:55:48.437
so hearing and vision impairment, and those dogs are.

00:55:49.337 --> 00:55:51.317
Very specialized to do that work.

00:55:51.817 --> 00:55:56.417
Mental health service animals are, service dogs specifically,

00:55:56.857 --> 00:56:00.997
are much easier to train because anybody who has a dog will know or anybody

00:56:00.997 --> 00:56:03.397
who's a dog person. Dogs are much more intuitive to those things.

00:56:03.997 --> 00:56:07.777
You know, getting a dog to stop at a red light is different from a dog responding

00:56:07.777 --> 00:56:08.997
if you're having a panic attack.

00:56:10.262 --> 00:56:14.902
And worked on the pause bill for which Senator or Congressman DeSantis at the

00:56:14.902 --> 00:56:18.222
time introduced. It was actually bipartisan. He introduced it with a Democrat.

00:56:18.542 --> 00:56:21.682
It did eventually, four years later, pass in a different form.

00:56:21.842 --> 00:56:23.342
It was signed into law by President Biden.

00:56:24.442 --> 00:56:28.202
So I started a trade association to create an accreditation standard for these

00:56:28.202 --> 00:56:32.042
nonprofits to help them come together to bring best practices together,

00:56:32.242 --> 00:56:35.042
identify best practices, work with different research institutions,

00:56:35.282 --> 00:56:38.482
both government and outside government, that we're trying to understand the

00:56:38.482 --> 00:56:41.822
science behind, you know, serving veterans through these service animals.

00:56:42.002 --> 00:56:46.802
And it still is in existence. I actually began serving as the board chair.

00:56:46.962 --> 00:56:49.402
I had just served as a board member for a few years.

00:56:49.602 --> 00:56:52.402
And I came back as board chair this year.

00:56:52.762 --> 00:56:57.502
And we're building out some new projects to help get the word out and to help

00:56:57.502 --> 00:56:59.262
support these service dog providers.

00:56:59.742 --> 00:57:02.722
But like check out, people can check out the website for it,

00:57:03.082 --> 00:57:04.542
servicedogsforvets.org.

00:57:05.122 --> 00:57:09.382
There's amazing organizations on there that this is their life's work.

00:57:09.462 --> 00:57:11.142
This is their passion, their dream, and what they do.

00:57:11.262 --> 00:57:13.802
And, you know, I always said to all the people I worked with there,

00:57:14.062 --> 00:57:17.522
you know, I don't know really anything. I have a cat. He's sitting right over here.

00:57:17.802 --> 00:57:22.102
I've had dogs before. I love dogs. But, you know, right now I'm a cat owner. And.

00:57:23.019 --> 00:57:27.839
I can't train a dog and I can't help heal a veteran with mental health issues,

00:57:27.839 --> 00:57:33.479
but I can help bring all the right people together and get them to work together.

00:57:33.939 --> 00:57:36.759
And maybe, you know, sometimes a little strong arming, sometimes they need some,

00:57:36.859 --> 00:57:39.619
you know, carrot, some stick, you know, both goes both ways.

00:57:39.979 --> 00:57:43.759
I can help these people work together and come find some solutions and get them

00:57:43.759 --> 00:57:45.439
in front of the right people, the decision makers.

00:57:45.699 --> 00:57:48.139
So I'm very proud of the association. Thank you.

00:57:48.619 --> 00:57:53.279
Well, you know, when I was in the legislature, I was one of the dog legislators.

00:57:53.279 --> 00:57:55.079
And I'll tell you that story at another time.

00:57:56.839 --> 00:58:03.199
But how can people get in touch with you if they want you to speak or pick your

00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:04.159
brain? How does that work?

00:58:04.799 --> 00:58:09.219
Well, thank you. I think my Instagram right now, which I need to work on my social media presence.

00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:13.239
Eric, I am always going to be a staffer and I am so terrible.

00:58:13.359 --> 00:58:17.639
I am a staffer at heart. I serve a principal, be it a member of Congress,

00:58:18.359 --> 00:58:21.759
be it, you know, my members of the association, you know, of TPI,

00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:24.959
my clients that I work with, private sector clients.

00:58:25.299 --> 00:58:31.059
I am on Instagram. I need to be better at posting more. But Jordan Colvin 202

00:58:31.059 --> 00:58:32.339
is my Instagram account.

00:58:32.879 --> 00:58:37.499
I post when I have clips from CNN on there, but that's a great way to get a hold of me.

00:58:38.199 --> 00:58:42.599
All right. Well, Jordan Colvin, it's been an honor and a delight to talk with

00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:45.919
you and to have the opportunity to pick your brain a little bit.

00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:51.359
I think, you know, if anything, my listeners will know that there are some people

00:58:51.359 --> 00:58:57.199
in Washington who actually are statespersons that are looking out for the common

00:58:57.199 --> 00:59:01.699
good and just must continue success in that.

00:59:02.359 --> 00:59:06.839
And and just thank you again for what you do and for coming on the podcast.

00:59:06.839 --> 00:59:09.679
I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me.

00:59:10.279 --> 00:59:12.299
All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:31.600
Music.

00:59:32.282 --> 00:59:38.082
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, right?

00:59:38.202 --> 00:59:45.502
I've got two ladies coming on, Bremond McDougall and Lisa Cooper.

00:59:46.522 --> 00:59:52.922
Bremond McDougall is a graduate of the University of Texas at Austin with a BA in Spanish.

00:59:53.322 --> 00:59:56.502
While raising her three children between Austin and New York City,

00:59:56.702 --> 01:00:02.022
she amassed a collection of many thousands of books that make up what she calls

01:00:02.022 --> 01:00:05.682
a reader's library as opposed to a collector's library.

01:00:06.082 --> 01:00:09.682
Rather than first editions, it contains dog-eared favorites,

01:00:09.982 --> 01:00:13.622
collections from both of her grandmothers, complete with personal notes,

01:00:13.822 --> 01:00:15.582
and books she has yet to read.

01:00:15.962 --> 01:00:19.362
She and her husband helped to establish Eleanor Hall at St.

01:00:19.502 --> 01:00:23.762
Andrews School in Austin, a kindergarten building named after her late mother

01:00:23.762 --> 01:00:26.362
who was a champion of joyful learning.

01:00:26.662 --> 01:00:30.362
A board member of the Citizens Committee for Children of New York,

01:00:30.482 --> 01:00:35.222
a non-profit that aims to advance well-being, equity, and justice for all of

01:00:35.222 --> 01:00:37.742
New York's children. She lives in Manhattan.

01:00:38.702 --> 01:00:41.742
Lisa Cooper is a lawyer by profession

01:00:41.742 --> 01:00:46.322
and attended Amherst College and the University of Texas School of Law.

01:00:46.782 --> 01:00:53.242
She has worked at a small Bay Area law firm that specializes in immigration law since 2008.

01:00:53.542 --> 01:00:57.942
A lifelong reader and book lover, her stint as a communications director for

01:00:57.942 --> 01:01:02.842
a school in Palo Alto, undergoing a rebrand sparked her interest in publishing.

01:01:03.202 --> 01:01:07.982
Working with a graphic designer to rethink the school's print magazines in an

01:01:07.982 --> 01:01:13.502
age that prioritizes digital experiences was an exciting and rewarding challenge.

01:01:13.782 --> 01:01:18.302
The mother of two adult daughters, she recently relocated to New York City.

01:01:18.662 --> 01:01:24.322
And both Bremond and Lisa are going to talk about their venture,

01:01:25.162 --> 01:01:31.402
their new publishing company, Quite Literally Books, and their inaugural releases.

01:01:31.862 --> 01:01:36.142
So ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

01:01:36.142 --> 01:01:44.262
guest on this, or excuse me, as guests on this podcast, Bremond MacDougall and Lisa Cooper.

01:01:45.680 --> 01:01:55.280
Music.

01:01:55.220 --> 01:02:00.120
All right. I have two distinctive young ladies.

01:02:00.700 --> 01:02:06.140
I'm getting ready to talk to Bremond MacDougall and Lisa Cooper.

01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:07.520
How y'all doing? Y'all doing good?

01:02:08.080 --> 01:02:10.540
You're good. Thank you. Happy to be talking with you.

01:02:11.160 --> 01:02:16.040
Well, I'm honored to have y'all on because we want to talk about this little

01:02:16.040 --> 01:02:22.740
entrepreneurial thing that you've got going and, you know, expound on that a little bit.

01:02:22.740 --> 01:02:27.040
But to start the conversation, I do like some icebreakers.

01:02:27.460 --> 01:02:30.080
So the first icebreaker is a quote.

01:02:30.560 --> 01:02:35.600
And the quote is, we believe that you can never have too many books,

01:02:35.900 --> 01:02:38.100
just too few bookshelves.

01:02:38.460 --> 01:02:40.180
What does that quote mean to y'all?

01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:46.720
Oh, boy. It means that we have an addiction to books. That's what it means.

01:02:47.660 --> 01:02:51.100
That we need to stop collecting books. But not really.

01:02:51.660 --> 01:02:56.320
No, I mean, it feels like you can always make room for another book in your life.

01:02:56.540 --> 01:02:59.900
You know, obviously, you have to be able to accommodate the physical book,

01:03:00.080 --> 01:03:04.220
but we are both believers in the actual physical book.

01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:09.260
Being a really important part of a reading experience. It's not for everyone, for sure.

01:03:09.420 --> 01:03:15.220
And we encourage reading on whatever, you know, tablet or screen you want to use.

01:03:15.340 --> 01:03:19.620
But for us, the actual physical book is super important. So we just keep getting more.

01:03:20.500 --> 01:03:25.680
Yeah, it's nothing like pulling that book open and turning those pages.

01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:31.840
I know some of my younger listeners and friends will probably be like.

01:03:32.900 --> 01:03:34.100
Yeah, why you got to do all that?

01:03:34.220 --> 01:03:38.000
But, you know, like you said, it's something special. If you haven't done it,

01:03:38.100 --> 01:03:42.140
and most people have, but if you haven't done it, it is a special feeling.

01:03:42.520 --> 01:03:46.960
All right, guys, so I need y'all to pick a number between 1 and 20.

01:03:47.640 --> 01:03:54.060
Each of us or collectively? y'all can collectively do it you know 11 great can

01:03:54.060 --> 01:04:00.560
we do lucky number 11 today please 11 all right where do you go to check the

01:04:00.560 --> 01:04:04.300
fact check a fact that you see hear or read.

01:04:05.366 --> 01:04:11.546
That's really good. Well, I will confess to often consulting Wikipedia first,

01:04:11.546 --> 01:04:16.386
but I will also say that I have a full set of Encyclopedia Britannica.

01:04:16.626 --> 01:04:23.126
I have the physical books. I have a dictionary that's six inches thick.

01:04:23.266 --> 01:04:31.746
So I do like to confirm something in the newspaper or in a book or somewhere

01:04:31.746 --> 01:04:36.346
that just feels more real to me than finding it out online. I don't know. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:04:36.926 --> 01:04:40.906
You take everything you learn online with a grain of salt, for sure.

01:04:41.686 --> 01:04:46.746
Yeah. Okay. So, Bremond, I'm going to ask you a question.

01:04:47.946 --> 01:04:53.046
Biggest issue, what is the biggest issue that you deal with as a board member

01:04:53.046 --> 01:04:56.206
of the Citizens Committee for Children of New York?

01:04:56.206 --> 01:04:59.086
Gosh i mean i think the biggest issue that

01:04:59.086 --> 01:05:03.386
we deal with is is funding it's you

01:05:03.386 --> 01:05:07.766
know it's trying to get it's trying to bring attention to all

01:05:07.766 --> 01:05:11.166
of the things that affect the children in new

01:05:11.166 --> 01:05:15.566
york and their families and getting the resources pointed in that direction

01:05:15.566 --> 01:05:20.666
whether they're financial resources or personnel resources or what have you

01:05:20.666 --> 01:05:27.826
to to you know uplift the children of new york City who are the future of New

01:05:27.826 --> 01:05:30.306
York City, obviously, and their families.

01:05:30.626 --> 01:05:38.226
And there's a lot that needs to be done. And it's a real battle all the time to get the city to,

01:05:38.526 --> 01:05:44.606
and the people who live in the city, to focus on those children who really need

01:05:44.606 --> 01:05:52.646
services and affordable housing and food and education, all of those things. Yeah.

01:05:53.286 --> 01:05:58.886
And I don't know. So how does, so I'm kind of curious, how does your committee work in that?

01:05:58.966 --> 01:06:06.366
Are you like a flow through where people like say Ford Foundation will make

01:06:06.366 --> 01:06:11.186
a grant and they'll send it to you and then you disperse it or you raise your

01:06:11.186 --> 01:06:13.286
own money to do whatever y'all need to do?

01:06:13.286 --> 01:06:18.206
One of our big things that we do is we collect huge amounts of data,

01:06:18.406 --> 01:06:25.046
and the staff does, and they compile it in a huge database, which is available

01:06:25.046 --> 01:06:29.566
to really anyone who uses it. Nonprofits use it. The city uses it.

01:06:29.706 --> 01:06:34.046
We take their data and combine it with other data, and then the city uses it

01:06:34.046 --> 01:06:38.846
for their own research. And so that's one of the things that we do.

01:06:39.106 --> 01:06:43.126
But we also have community building programs.

01:06:43.546 --> 01:06:47.646
We have lots of, I'm trying to think of the word.

01:06:48.775 --> 01:06:54.595
We work with other organizations to form coalitions, to influence policy,

01:06:54.915 --> 01:06:59.835
to, you know, we go to Albany and talk to lawmakers there. We talk to lawmakers here in the city.

01:07:00.275 --> 01:07:08.555
You know, advocacy. Lots of talking and pushing and trying to get things done and made better.

01:07:09.375 --> 01:07:14.595
Okay. All right, Lisa, this is your question. Give me your thoughts about the

01:07:14.595 --> 01:07:20.375
current issues concerning immigration. Oh, I don't think we have time for me

01:07:20.375 --> 01:07:22.975
to give you all my thoughts on that.

01:07:23.315 --> 01:07:29.655
But yeah, I've been practicing immigration law since 2008.

01:07:29.735 --> 01:07:33.835
The first Trump administration years were tough.

01:07:34.075 --> 01:07:36.755
I have never been busier until now.

01:07:37.135 --> 01:07:41.475
And this is unprecedented. I was just telling Vermont the other day about this

01:07:41.475 --> 01:07:46.315
new alien registration requirement that just went into effect on April 11th.

01:07:46.355 --> 01:07:51.815
And it seems like when you look at it on its face, it might not feel that intrusive.

01:07:52.575 --> 01:07:58.795
But what it is, is it's another tool to track people is what it is.

01:07:58.795 --> 01:08:05.135
It's getting people who otherwise wouldn't have to make their presence known

01:08:05.135 --> 01:08:10.075
in this way, you know, onto the government database so that you can be trapped.

01:08:10.435 --> 01:08:15.235
And it criminalizes certain behaviors that weren't previously criminalized.

01:08:15.395 --> 01:08:22.595
For example, anyone who has a visa or has a green card, so legal permanent residence,

01:08:23.255 --> 01:08:26.375
you're supposed to, anytime you move, you're supposed to let the government

01:08:26.375 --> 01:08:28.915
know that you've moved, right? Not a big deal.

01:08:29.135 --> 01:08:31.955
Except now there's a criminal penalty to that.

01:08:32.735 --> 01:08:38.275
And there's also a criminal penalty if you are a parent of a child who is under

01:08:38.275 --> 01:08:40.015
14 when they enter the U.S.

01:08:40.155 --> 01:08:47.335
Legally again, and you become 14, you have 30 days as a parent or guardian to register that child.

01:08:47.895 --> 01:08:51.775
And if you don't, again, there are criminal penalties that can be applied to

01:08:51.775 --> 01:08:53.415
you. You can be deported.

01:08:53.915 --> 01:08:59.275
And so these kinds of, a lot of these existed on the books previously.

01:08:59.275 --> 01:09:03.555
They're just now being enforced and the ante is being upped.

01:09:03.735 --> 01:09:05.175
And we're seeing it across the board.

01:09:05.495 --> 01:09:10.375
So it's the kind of thing where we should all be paying attention to this stuff

01:09:10.375 --> 01:09:16.615
because it feels like any one thing may not seem huge collectively.

01:09:17.335 --> 01:09:24.075
It tells a very, very startling and we should be scared story about what this

01:09:24.075 --> 01:09:27.715
government feels like it can do with people and to people.

01:09:28.615 --> 01:09:36.155
Yeah. Yeah. So I worked for an immigrants rights group in 2008.

01:09:38.135 --> 01:09:46.775
Guess it was yeah 2008 i might have started in 2007 yeah so for 2007 2008 i worked for mississippi,

01:09:47.515 --> 01:09:54.715
immigrants rights alliance so i greatly appreciate the work that you do on the side.

01:09:55.735 --> 01:09:59.295
Considering that because it's a lot of people don't understand how much work

01:09:59.295 --> 01:10:05.715
is into just trying to do the right thing right all right so let's talk about

01:10:05.715 --> 01:10:10.335
quite literally books How did y'all come up with that?

01:10:10.555 --> 01:10:16.015
And well, first of all, how did y'all meet each other? How did this relationship start?

01:10:16.315 --> 01:10:20.995
Well, it started on the first day of seventh grade when I was the new kid at

01:10:20.995 --> 01:10:23.255
this little school in Austin, Texas.

01:10:23.715 --> 01:10:29.595
And this very kind girl took pity on me because there are only about four new

01:10:29.595 --> 01:10:32.115
kids in the class, didn't know anybody,

01:10:32.515 --> 01:10:37.115
really different world I was coming into, coming from a public school system

01:10:37.115 --> 01:10:41.015
into a private one. But it was really great.

01:10:41.295 --> 01:10:46.835
It wasn't pity. I just want to interrupt you right there. You were interesting.

01:10:47.115 --> 01:10:51.335
I was interesting. You were interesting and you were funny and you were different

01:10:51.335 --> 01:10:53.595
than people that I already knew.

01:10:54.215 --> 01:10:58.755
That's true. I was different there, wasn't I? You were really interesting.

01:10:58.995 --> 01:11:02.355
I was like, oh, wow, who is this? I want to know this person.

01:11:03.035 --> 01:11:08.135
And that has continued right from the get-go. We bonded. She makes me laugh.

01:11:08.355 --> 01:11:10.455
Vermont is like one of the funniest people I've ever met.

01:11:10.815 --> 01:11:14.755
And we both really loved to read, even back then. And books were definitely

01:11:14.755 --> 01:11:19.615
like a big foundational part of our friendship back then and continues to be today.

01:11:19.955 --> 01:11:24.615
And so in 2020, when we were sitting there during the pandemic,

01:11:24.855 --> 01:11:28.395
we both just turned 50 and we were like, what the heck are we going to do next?

01:11:28.615 --> 01:11:33.135
And, you know, everyone was reassessing their lives while watching their sourdough

01:11:33.135 --> 01:11:36.535
starter do its thing. And we were like, okay, let's do it.

01:11:37.541 --> 01:11:41.041
Books are going to be a part of it, whatever that looks like.

01:11:41.161 --> 01:11:46.281
And we both, you know, wanted to own a bookstore at one point or another,

01:11:46.341 --> 01:11:50.241
but then we thought we'd do something easier and open a publishing house,

01:11:50.541 --> 01:11:52.801
which in retrospect is ridiculous.

01:11:53.001 --> 01:11:56.761
I'm joking. It's not easy at all. There's nothing. We're just like super naive

01:11:56.761 --> 01:12:01.001
and very... I feel now like we could have opened a bookstore standing on our heads.

01:12:01.141 --> 01:12:04.001
I know. That sounds super easy to me right now. Yeah.

01:12:04.621 --> 01:12:09.841
No, but I mean, we went into it because we thought, I mean, honestly,

01:12:10.061 --> 01:12:11.281
we thought it would be fun.

01:12:11.481 --> 01:12:14.381
Like a big part of it is like, let's do something we enjoy.

01:12:15.421 --> 01:12:18.821
But very quickly, it became a lot more than that to us.

01:12:18.821 --> 01:12:24.901
You know, in terms of, like, one thing that I don't think we thought this through

01:12:24.901 --> 01:12:31.641
is that the very act of publishing itself, especially now, is a political act.

01:12:32.101 --> 01:12:38.181
You know, it is, and there is some power in it that we weren't expecting to

01:12:38.181 --> 01:12:40.101
be responsible for. Yeah.

01:12:40.221 --> 01:12:43.421
And the books that we choose, you know, it's important.

01:12:43.801 --> 01:12:47.701
It's actually they say something. They mean something. Yeah.

01:12:48.361 --> 01:12:57.041
So why did y'all choose the route to publish books that either have been published

01:12:57.041 --> 01:12:59.521
before or may not have been published?

01:12:59.701 --> 01:13:06.481
What was what was the thought behind doing that as opposed to seeking out new

01:13:06.481 --> 01:13:11.321
authors? I think part of it, I think it is maybe easier.

01:13:11.581 --> 01:13:15.561
We had no idea how to start a publishing firm with new authors,

01:13:15.561 --> 01:13:17.901
but we love old books. We love history.

01:13:18.101 --> 01:13:22.901
We love libraries. We love old stories.

01:13:23.361 --> 01:13:29.401
They're interesting to us. And so that seemed like a niche that we could sort

01:13:29.401 --> 01:13:36.921
of fit into was finding books, because we find books all the time that are unknown to us,

01:13:36.981 --> 01:13:40.001
that are, you know, older or whatever, and think, oh my gosh, have you read this?

01:13:40.001 --> 01:13:43.421
This is so great. Not the current stuff that everybody's reading about,

01:13:43.521 --> 01:13:47.661
that everybody knows about, but something that, you know, really feels like a gem.

01:13:47.841 --> 01:13:52.701
Like, oh, gosh, I found this in a used bookstore, and it's so great.

01:13:53.041 --> 01:13:57.361
That feeling is really— The treasure hunt of it is part of it,

01:13:57.441 --> 01:14:01.461
for sure. There's like a thrill in uncovering something, you know, that's been forgotten.

01:14:01.641 --> 01:14:06.681
There's no doubt about that. And if it comes in a really cool cover with really

01:14:06.681 --> 01:14:09.401
neat illustrations, which books used to do, that's really, you know,

01:14:09.441 --> 01:14:12.561
that's kind of a plus, too. That's sort of a fun thing to discover.

01:14:13.441 --> 01:14:19.361
So why do you, because you focus in on female authors.

01:14:19.981 --> 01:14:26.261
So why do you think so many books by women have been lost to history?

01:14:27.333 --> 01:14:30.273
We talk about this a lot, and I think there are several, I mean,

01:14:30.373 --> 01:14:33.213
there are lots of different reasons, you know, for any particular book,

01:14:33.373 --> 01:14:38.793
but I think in general, women then, and probably still today, by and large,

01:14:39.253 --> 01:14:45.373
write about issues that are about the home, or about relationships,

01:14:45.673 --> 01:14:47.853
or the interior lives of women.

01:14:48.233 --> 01:14:53.753
And I think this is becoming less and less the case, but even today,

01:14:53.753 --> 01:14:59.633
we talk about the category of chick lit, and you don't really see a lot of men gravitating to that.

01:14:59.753 --> 01:15:05.013
To the romance section. To the romance section or to books that are written

01:15:05.013 --> 01:15:07.953
by women that are about the interior lives of women.

01:15:08.153 --> 01:15:11.593
That's not generally what a man will pick up.

01:15:11.773 --> 01:15:18.753
And so I think if you immediately sort of cut out half the population of readers

01:15:18.753 --> 01:15:24.053
because of your subject matter, then it becomes hard to last over time, you know.

01:15:24.233 --> 01:15:29.193
And it's interesting because we don't, women don't really have that issue.

01:15:29.493 --> 01:15:33.853
Like, we regularly pick up books written by men that are about men,

01:15:33.853 --> 01:15:38.573
and we don't feel like that's, like, man-lit, you know, that's just a book.

01:15:38.773 --> 01:15:43.453
So there's, like, a default setting, I think, that favors male authors,

01:15:43.493 --> 01:15:47.793
even today, even though we're finding out now that there are more female readers

01:15:47.793 --> 01:15:52.773
than male readers, and that actually reading is becoming a lost art among men.

01:15:54.473 --> 01:16:00.913
Well, I'm not surprised by that. I think, you know, part of the culture that

01:16:00.913 --> 01:16:06.333
we're living in, you know, they're attacking education.

01:16:06.833 --> 01:16:11.133
So, you know, it's like, I guess it's manly now to be dumb. I don't know.

01:16:11.793 --> 01:16:13.633
I'm just, I just.

01:16:14.313 --> 01:16:17.753
That's kind of a message out there. Yeah, it is. It's kind of,

01:16:17.853 --> 01:16:20.653
that's kind of a message that's coming through. Yeah.

01:16:21.995 --> 01:16:31.875
So, is there a particular thing that you look for when you're trying to republish books?

01:16:32.575 --> 01:16:38.255
I'd say there's two main things that we look for. One is, first and foremost,

01:16:38.455 --> 01:16:39.755
is it has to be a good read.

01:16:39.955 --> 01:16:45.795
Like, we don't want to put something in the world that is just off. That you should read.

01:16:45.995 --> 01:16:50.035
Yeah, another book that we need to read or have to read and that is a slog to

01:16:50.035 --> 01:16:54.715
read is not our intent. We want it to be a pleasure to engage with the words

01:16:54.715 --> 01:16:56.775
of the book, first and foremost.

01:16:57.615 --> 01:17:02.695
But very quickly behind that, we love history, but we don't want to print something

01:17:02.695 --> 01:17:07.755
just for history's sake as an artifact. We want it to be something that tells

01:17:07.755 --> 01:17:09.955
us something about us today.

01:17:09.975 --> 01:17:15.975
We focus on American authors because we think that there's a lot of stuff that

01:17:15.975 --> 01:17:21.075
we are talking about today that we actually already talked about 100 years ago.

01:17:21.075 --> 01:17:22.915
And we seem to have forgotten that.

01:17:23.175 --> 01:17:31.415
And so this is an opportunity to, I think, uncover something 100 years old and

01:17:31.415 --> 01:17:35.075
say, hey, we're still talking about this today. It's still relevant today.

01:17:35.335 --> 01:17:39.135
And what we are going through right now isn't new.

01:17:39.335 --> 01:17:45.375
Why are we still processing it? These are like interesting questions, I think.

01:17:45.735 --> 01:17:53.075
And we feel like oftentimes there are people who need to be engaging in these

01:17:53.075 --> 01:17:57.035
sorts of conversations and they don't because they don't feel like they have standing.

01:17:58.255 --> 01:18:03.915
And reading a book about something and then opining on it,

01:18:03.995 --> 01:18:08.275
like opens the door for people to enter a conversation that they might otherwise

01:18:08.275 --> 01:18:10.255
be nervous about getting into

01:18:10.255 --> 01:18:13.335
or feel like they don't belong in it or shouldn't have a say about it.

01:18:13.775 --> 01:18:17.595
Oftentimes those are the very people that need to be engaging in those conversations.

01:18:18.955 --> 01:18:26.415
Yeah. So tell us about the three books on your inaugural list.

01:18:26.655 --> 01:18:31.515
I know one plumb bun, Jessie Redmond Fausett.

01:18:32.915 --> 01:18:37.715
So interesting connection for the listeners.

01:18:38.035 --> 01:18:44.295
Y'all already know this, but she was like an editor for the NAACP magazine, The Crisis.

01:18:44.875 --> 01:18:49.675
And so during her time, I guess she was literary editor before she became the

01:18:49.675 --> 01:18:54.875
full editor, but she oversaw the Brownie books,

01:18:55.695 --> 01:19:00.555
which were very popular with African-American children back then.

01:19:01.395 --> 01:19:03.955
The tie-in with me is that.

01:19:05.026 --> 01:19:09.326
The lady who wrote the new Brownie book has been a guest on the show,

01:19:09.366 --> 01:19:16.546
and she got nominated for, I think she actually won, the NAACP Award for Literature

01:19:16.546 --> 01:19:19.626
the year that she did the show and did the book.

01:19:19.826 --> 01:19:25.126
So, Ms. Fausett, I'm somewhat familiar with, but the other authors, I'm not.

01:19:25.286 --> 01:19:28.906
So, kind of tell us a little bit about all three of those books,

01:19:29.006 --> 01:19:35.846
The Plum Bun, The Homemaker, and The Pink House. Well, since you brought up Plum bun first, yes.

01:19:36.186 --> 01:19:40.466
So, Jessie Redmond Fausett is so interesting because she was responsible for

01:19:40.466 --> 01:19:46.886
launching so many literary careers and was a really important figure of the Harlem Renaissance.

01:19:47.146 --> 01:19:49.666
And yet, she's not really known today.

01:19:49.966 --> 01:19:53.486
It's not a familiar name. You know, the number of people that we've told about

01:19:53.486 --> 01:19:57.306
this book, you know, have never heard of her or Plum bun.

01:19:58.086 --> 01:20:03.086
Plum Bun was actually published, I believe, the same year that Nella Larson published Passing.

01:20:03.686 --> 01:20:09.326
And that book has had a lot of attention over the years. And most recently,

01:20:09.346 --> 01:20:10.526
I think, was made into a movie.

01:20:11.306 --> 01:20:17.166
The themes are similar. It's about a young woman who is very talented.

01:20:17.166 --> 01:20:19.026
She's beautiful. She's ambitious.

01:20:19.366 --> 01:20:24.426
And she's light-skinned. And so the world perceives her or can perceive her

01:20:24.426 --> 01:20:31.006
as white. And when her parents pass, she makes this decision to live her life.

01:20:32.140 --> 01:20:38.500
Allowing these assumptions and to see, you know, what opportunities will be

01:20:38.500 --> 01:20:41.220
open to her if she just lets people assume that she's white.

01:20:41.700 --> 01:20:44.780
And it's a really, really interesting story.

01:20:44.980 --> 01:20:50.580
She is not the most likable character, but we find the stuff that she thinks

01:20:50.580 --> 01:20:53.240
about and the, you know, questions of identity.

01:20:53.580 --> 01:20:56.200
There's a lot of intersectionality in this book.

01:20:56.720 --> 01:21:01.420
It's all the same stuff that we're talking about and writers are writing about today.

01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:05.140
You know, several months ago, I read Brit Bennett's The Vanishing Half,

01:21:05.160 --> 01:21:09.260
and it's exactly like this. You know, it's the same themes.

01:21:09.420 --> 01:21:13.640
So we think it's definitely got a place on a modern reader's bookshelf.

01:21:13.940 --> 01:21:17.240
You know, this book is almost not quite 100 years old.

01:21:17.660 --> 01:21:20.560
The writing is so good. I don't think

01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:23.260
Jesse Redmond Fausett gets enough credit for just being a

01:21:23.260 --> 01:21:26.460
good writer her characters are not

01:21:26.460 --> 01:21:29.620
typical and so you enjoy

01:21:29.620 --> 01:21:34.060
spending time with them even if you you know don't necessarily want Angela to

01:21:34.060 --> 01:21:38.000
be your best friend the choices she makes and the way she thinks about the world

01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:43.140
about relationships about men sex career like really will resonate I think with

01:21:43.140 --> 01:21:48.660
a modern reader which is I it's hard to believe that a hundred-year-old book, I think,

01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:51.500
can still have that resonance.

01:21:51.780 --> 01:21:55.480
But we have that with The Homemaker as well. Yeah. So The Homemaker is by Dorothy

01:21:55.480 --> 01:22:02.240
Canfield Fisher, and it was written in 1924, so it's 100 years old plus. And it's about a family.

01:22:03.100 --> 01:22:08.960
The mother is a traditional stay-at-home mom, as most women were in the 1920s.

01:22:09.080 --> 01:22:12.440
The father goes out to work. They have three children. The.

01:22:14.506 --> 01:22:21.246
Sort of an obsessive housekeeper, and she's miserable, and she's making her family miserable.

01:22:21.466 --> 01:22:23.966
Her children all have various health ailments.

01:22:24.266 --> 01:22:29.226
Her husband hates working. He hates his job. He wants to be,

01:22:29.406 --> 01:22:31.786
I don't know, he wanted to be a poet, I think.

01:22:32.346 --> 01:22:36.166
And there's an accident which forces them to sort of change places,

01:22:36.166 --> 01:22:39.086
and the father is forced to stay at home.

01:22:39.226 --> 01:22:41.966
He can't work anymore and the mom is forced to

01:22:41.966 --> 01:22:45.626
go out and get a job to support the family and

01:22:45.626 --> 01:22:52.006
everybody settles into their sort of the place that they should have been the

01:22:52.006 --> 01:22:58.526
mom is extremely successful in her sales career and happy and the father stays

01:22:58.526 --> 01:23:02.386
at home and keeps the house and takes care of the children,

01:23:03.286 --> 01:23:06.666
and everyone everyone is happier and healthier but it's

01:23:06.666 --> 01:23:09.646
an interesting there's some things that the father

01:23:09.646 --> 01:23:12.426
some rules that he doesn't have

01:23:12.426 --> 01:23:15.426
to follow that are that are really interesting as a man

01:23:15.426 --> 01:23:18.826
staying home he sort of has the liberty to say

01:23:18.826 --> 01:23:21.566
i'm not gonna i'm not gonna

01:23:21.566 --> 01:23:26.766
obsess about you know making sure that every little thing is clean and perfect

01:23:26.766 --> 01:23:31.926
and because he's doing something new because yeah because he's doing he's inventing

01:23:31.926 --> 01:23:36.746
this yeah this new role and society hasn't prescribed what a stay-at-home dad

01:23:36.746 --> 01:23:38.846
should do or what that looks like.

01:23:39.086 --> 01:23:41.446
And the wife is able to go out.

01:23:42.458 --> 01:23:47.178
Sort of without guilt, because I think most working women have a lot of guilt

01:23:47.178 --> 01:23:50.998
about, you know, they're not doing enough for either thing.

01:23:51.118 --> 01:23:53.998
They're not, you know, they're not doing enough for their job,

01:23:54.078 --> 01:23:55.938
but they're also not doing enough for their home.

01:23:56.158 --> 01:24:03.558
And she's able to go out and work and enjoy her work and let that be enough,

01:24:03.718 --> 01:24:05.778
which I think is really... Which is radical.

01:24:05.998 --> 01:24:10.458
Yeah, it is. Radical in 1924, and I feel like it's still... It's a radical suggestion.

01:24:10.858 --> 01:24:16.958
Yeah, it's a radical suggestion. It's an interesting maybe handbook for modern couples to consider,

01:24:17.178 --> 01:24:23.578
you know, like where the man so completely takes care of the home in a way where

01:24:23.578 --> 01:24:29.698
she is freed up to be fully invested in her career, you know.

01:24:30.638 --> 01:24:35.238
And then The Pink House, it was interesting, we were talking about earlier about

01:24:35.238 --> 01:24:41.018
sort of men not reading books about women's interior lives.

01:24:41.138 --> 01:24:46.318
And I was thinking, you know, a lot of women love, say, Pride and Prejudice.

01:24:46.418 --> 01:24:47.598
Like, that's one of my favorite books.

01:24:48.058 --> 01:24:52.698
I don't think boys read that book in the same way that girls read that book.

01:24:52.738 --> 01:24:55.218
Do boys read that book? I don't think so. I mean, I don't.

01:24:55.978 --> 01:25:00.878
And say, oh, I love Jane Austen. Yeah. Oh, I love the Bronte sisters.

01:25:01.078 --> 01:25:06.598
That doesn't really happen. And the pink house is more in that vein.

01:25:06.598 --> 01:25:13.398
It's more of a timeless story of a family living all together in a house.

01:25:13.578 --> 01:25:20.138
There's an outsider who joins the family and watches and records what is happening

01:25:20.138 --> 01:25:25.618
and all of the undercurrents and secrets and things that are going on within

01:25:25.618 --> 01:25:28.298
herself and within the family group.

01:25:28.638 --> 01:25:34.818
And it's more like those classics that women think of as classics.

01:25:34.818 --> 01:25:40.598
And I think maybe men give lip service, too, but probably haven't read as much. Yeah.

01:25:41.143 --> 01:25:47.543
I want to just bring up, we kind of went past the author, Dorothy Campbell Fisher,

01:25:47.843 --> 01:25:50.583
who is a really interesting character.

01:25:51.043 --> 01:25:53.843
So she's credited with bringing— She's the author of The Homemaker.

01:25:53.843 --> 01:25:55.163
Yeah, sorry, the homemaker.

01:25:55.443 --> 01:26:00.023
She is credited for bringing the Montessori method to the United States.

01:26:00.023 --> 01:26:04.103
And you see a lot of that sort of experiential learning being,

01:26:04.103 --> 01:26:09.603
you know, used by Lester, the dad, and how he approaches child rearing.

01:26:09.803 --> 01:26:14.563
And so that's really interesting. And she herself.

01:26:15.123 --> 01:26:22.543
Although a champion of civil rights and a lot of civil rights things that were,

01:26:22.583 --> 01:26:29.343
I think, sort of cutting edge in 1924, she also was a part of the Vermont eugenics movement.

01:26:29.343 --> 01:26:38.143
And so she's a really good example of how we have to engage, you know,

01:26:38.343 --> 01:26:42.463
not only with the time period that the books might have been written in,

01:26:42.663 --> 01:26:47.683
but we have to engage with complex people from that time period.

01:26:47.683 --> 01:26:53.743
And there's a lot of nuance that you have to, like, be willing to acknowledge.

01:26:54.143 --> 01:26:57.643
And there's a lot of discomfort in it as well. And it's like,

01:26:57.783 --> 01:27:01.083
how can this person have these two opposing views, you know?

01:27:01.463 --> 01:27:06.743
Well, you know, over time, things develop. They don't always develop for the better.

01:27:07.103 --> 01:27:10.783
And we talk about blind spots and, you know.

01:27:11.323 --> 01:27:16.503
How, yeah, could she not see that the eugenics movement in Vermont,

01:27:16.503 --> 01:27:22.783
which was focused on attracting the right kind of people to come to Vermont

01:27:22.783 --> 01:27:28.443
and keeping the wrong kind of people from reproducing in Vermont,

01:27:28.443 --> 01:27:33.883
how could she also be a champion of Black civil rights?

01:27:34.163 --> 01:27:38.543
When you say that like that, I feel like that's really common today.

01:27:38.743 --> 01:27:42.363
Like, you know, the right people. Well, I'm just thinking about like,

01:27:42.663 --> 01:27:49.343
so, you know, I grew up in Austin, Texas, right? which is a liberal bastion in a sea of red.

01:27:53.043 --> 01:27:58.583
And then we've spent time on the East Coast. I've also spent time in California

01:27:58.583 --> 01:28:02.963
in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is considered one of the most liberal places

01:28:02.963 --> 01:28:06.403
in the country. And it is.

01:28:06.783 --> 01:28:11.603
And I think that there's just as much racism there.

01:28:11.823 --> 01:28:15.763
It just looks different. And there is that thing that people do,

01:28:15.903 --> 01:28:19.843
which is like, they're really big and like believing in the right causes and

01:28:19.843 --> 01:28:20.943
saying the right things.

01:28:20.963 --> 01:28:24.343
But then there's that moment of, but not in my backyard.

01:28:24.743 --> 01:28:26.723
And I think that happens a lot.

01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:34.800
Yeah. So, you know, that time period, a lot of the intellectuals were progressive

01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:40.120
in the fact that they felt that people should have rights and people should

01:28:40.120 --> 01:28:41.560
enjoy full citizenship.

01:28:42.240 --> 01:28:51.080
But at the same time, they they also had this intellectual argument that there's finite resources.

01:28:52.060 --> 01:28:58.140
And like you said, they wanted people that they were they were kind of the opposite

01:28:58.140 --> 01:29:05.500
where they felt if if you could be more intellectual, there wouldn't be as much poverty. Right.

01:29:06.240 --> 01:29:10.100
And, you know, so they came up with all these different thoughts.

01:29:10.360 --> 01:29:14.040
And, you know, I mean, Margaret Sanger is part of that, comes out of that.

01:29:14.660 --> 01:29:20.880
And, you know, so, yeah, it's like you said, it's very complex in this day and age.

01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:25.420
People would be a little squirmish to have those kind of discussions with folks.

01:29:25.560 --> 01:29:32.820
But the reality is that at the time they were they were supposed to be the intellectual elite.

01:29:33.100 --> 01:29:35.380
Right. And that was one of the discussions.

01:29:39.900 --> 01:29:49.460
So, I guess so. Would you consider these books targets for,

01:29:49.740 --> 01:29:54.020
and I'm not encouraging it, but based on the subject matter and stuff,

01:29:54.240 --> 01:29:58.840
do you think in this climate that these books would be, let's just say these

01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:03.320
books were more in circulation prior to y'all rediscovering them.

01:30:03.320 --> 01:30:09.760
Do you think that they would be in line to fall under these book bans that we're dealing with?

01:30:09.920 --> 01:30:13.120
And I know that y'all are against that, but...

01:30:14.290 --> 01:30:20.490
Why do you, I mean, why would you think, if they were, why would you think that

01:30:20.490 --> 01:30:22.010
they would fall in that category?

01:30:22.770 --> 01:30:31.190
I don't know. For me, it's kind of inscrutable, the criteria that are used to ban books.

01:30:31.410 --> 01:30:36.630
I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I think it's really hard to tell why something

01:30:36.630 --> 01:30:39.010
is offensive to someone.

01:30:39.130 --> 01:30:43.870
I don't know if any of these books would fall into that category at all.

01:30:43.870 --> 01:30:47.410
Maybe plumb bun because there is

01:30:47.410 --> 01:30:50.130
intersectionality and that's a bad word that you know

01:30:50.130 --> 01:30:53.790
we're not supposed to use or talk about but

01:30:53.790 --> 01:30:56.890
well we don't we don't work for the government so we're good we're

01:30:56.890 --> 01:30:59.830
weird when i say we i'm speaking

01:30:59.830 --> 01:31:04.870
yeah we do talk about it lisa and i and we do use but i think that plumb bun

01:31:04.870 --> 01:31:09.910
definitely could come under fire i mean it's again it's like a you know one

01:31:09.910 --> 01:31:13.510
really interesting thing that we've talked a lot about is there's always this

01:31:13.510 --> 01:31:17.130
moment in these books that are about passing specifically,

01:31:17.470 --> 01:31:21.710
where the person is discovered, you know?

01:31:22.110 --> 01:31:29.390
And in that moment, white people are so angry, betrayed, you know?

01:31:29.670 --> 01:31:34.310
They're betrayed because they feel like the wool's been pulled over their eyes,

01:31:34.470 --> 01:31:38.790
only they were the ones that were making the assumptions all the way through.

01:31:39.110 --> 01:31:42.550
It's all on them. And yet there's that moment of like,

01:31:42.550 --> 01:31:45.550
feeling like how could you do this yeah you

01:31:45.550 --> 01:31:49.110
did this to me yeah you know and i

01:31:49.110 --> 01:31:59.550
feel like that sort of describes a way of thinking that still exists today like

01:31:59.550 --> 01:32:05.570
and and i think that a book like one bun you know brought out of the past and

01:32:05.570 --> 01:32:08.450
showing a strong female character who,

01:32:08.970 --> 01:32:11.570
makes choices that are kind of.

01:32:13.419 --> 01:32:16.919
To me, they're really feminist choices, you know. They're very pragmatic.

01:32:17.099 --> 01:32:20.859
Very pragmatic. She's very pragmatic about her job, about her relationships,

01:32:21.219 --> 01:32:23.839
about, you know, what marriage can and will do for her.

01:32:24.959 --> 01:32:30.719
So, yeah, I think that that could be definitely one that people would not want in their libraries.

01:32:31.179 --> 01:32:36.239
Wouldn't want their children to read. And, you know, maybe it seems like there's

01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:40.699
more and more emphasis being placed on quote-unquote traditional families,

01:32:41.079 --> 01:32:42.439
meaning a mother-in-law.

01:32:42.499 --> 01:32:48.079
A father, father being, looks like a provider and the mother being someone who

01:32:48.079 --> 01:32:50.479
cares for and has a lot of children.

01:32:50.919 --> 01:32:57.279
And I'm not knocking that, but in America nowadays, like so many different kinds of families, right?

01:32:57.459 --> 01:33:04.979
I think that a book that flips that on its head might also feel subversive to certain groups.

01:33:05.479 --> 01:33:07.619
So it could be the homemaker too.

01:33:08.379 --> 01:33:13.439
And then, yeah, I don't know about, I think the pink house is sort of a gothic

01:33:13.439 --> 01:33:15.919
romance. I mean, I guess somebody could object.

01:33:16.819 --> 01:33:20.279
I don't know why you'd waste your time objecting to that, but I don't know why

01:33:20.279 --> 01:33:23.079
you'd waste your time objecting to any of these, to be honest.

01:33:24.379 --> 01:33:33.499
Yeah, I think, you know, the scenario of one adult staying home and one adult

01:33:33.499 --> 01:33:39.359
working is more of a luxury in this day and age than,

01:33:39.879 --> 01:33:43.099
you know, as far as any controversy goes.

01:33:43.099 --> 01:33:48.159
I just don't think our economics really give us that opportunity,

01:33:48.159 --> 01:33:53.799
not unless, you know, you just happen to have a position that that that a lot

01:33:53.799 --> 01:33:55.219
affords you that lifestyle.

01:33:56.179 --> 01:33:59.259
So to earners, that's that's that's the.

01:34:00.202 --> 01:34:03.142
Truth of it and when when people talk about

01:34:03.142 --> 01:34:06.022
you know women having more babies and boosting the

01:34:06.022 --> 01:34:08.982
birth rate and you know staying home and

01:34:08.982 --> 01:34:12.262
and doing that you know helping women

01:34:12.262 --> 01:34:14.922
is not helping them to have more babies it's helping them

01:34:14.922 --> 01:34:17.922
to be able to work and you know and

01:34:17.922 --> 01:34:20.822
take care of their family because most women need to work

01:34:20.822 --> 01:34:24.742
most families need two earners and that's

01:34:24.742 --> 01:34:27.782
just the fact of you know that's just a fact of

01:34:27.782 --> 01:34:31.422
our life yeah so when

01:34:31.422 --> 01:34:36.682
are these books going to be available and where will people be able to get them

01:34:36.682 --> 01:34:40.562
they're out they're out in the world they are that's right they were supposed

01:34:40.562 --> 01:34:46.162
to come out in april the 7th 7th they launched yes so people can find them on

01:34:46.162 --> 01:34:51.382
our website we're at quite literally books.com and you can order directly from us.

01:34:51.582 --> 01:34:56.502
Or you can go to your local independent bookstore and ask them for it.

01:34:56.622 --> 01:34:59.202
They can order it through our distributor at Asterism.

01:34:59.562 --> 01:35:04.722
And yeah, there's, please do, please, please do, please read these books.

01:35:04.862 --> 01:35:05.822
I think you'll like them.

01:35:06.122 --> 01:35:10.562
And we really encourage people to share what they think with us.

01:35:10.702 --> 01:35:15.282
You know, we have, sorry, a presence on Instagram, quite literally books.

01:35:15.442 --> 01:35:19.902
And there's a place to write us on our website. You can also send us a letter.

01:35:20.182 --> 01:35:25.562
We love paper. So if you want to actually take a moment, write us a note,

01:35:25.962 --> 01:35:29.442
send it to us, we will get it, we will read it, and we will write you back. We'll respond.

01:35:30.182 --> 01:35:35.562
Okay. So have you already started working on the next titles?

01:35:35.862 --> 01:35:41.982
Are y'all going to do like three at a time or how's that going to work?

01:35:42.482 --> 01:35:45.222
That's what plan is to do three books twice a year

01:35:45.222 --> 01:35:49.402
so we'll have another three that come out in november and we are working on

01:35:49.402 --> 01:35:55.642
those right now because you need a lot of lead time so the one one that we can

01:35:55.642 --> 01:36:00.542
that we have been talking about is a book called her land which is by charlotte

01:36:00.542 --> 01:36:03.242
perkins thank you and it's a it's a.

01:36:05.757 --> 01:36:10.817
That is, it's a fascinating world where it's just women and they have somehow

01:36:10.817 --> 01:36:15.197
developed a way of reproducing asexually. So men are not necessary.

01:36:15.437 --> 01:36:20.037
And some explorers come upon this society.

01:36:20.917 --> 01:36:25.517
And, you know, it's about what happens when these three men enter this society.

01:36:26.017 --> 01:36:30.777
And the differences between the society that the men describe and the society

01:36:30.777 --> 01:36:33.977
that the women know and are living in are, are striking.

01:36:34.317 --> 01:36:39.117
It's a really, it's, it's a really, it's a good book and it was written a hundred years ago.

01:36:39.317 --> 01:36:42.917
It was for its time, you know, very, very modern.

01:36:43.117 --> 01:36:47.317
So it's, it's, it's a fun book to read, but it's also a really interesting thing

01:36:47.317 --> 01:36:49.737
to think about. It's a really, it's very thought provoking.

01:36:50.337 --> 01:36:53.797
All right. So that's, that's one more, I guess the book police are going to

01:36:53.797 --> 01:36:56.257
be looking at. Possibly, yes.

01:36:57.577 --> 01:37:01.717
So since y'all have already kind of done the plug, what is,

01:37:01.857 --> 01:37:04.857
let's close out with what what do you

01:37:04.857 --> 01:37:08.517
seek for quite literally

01:37:08.517 --> 01:37:11.837
books first of all how did y'all come up with the title just

01:37:11.837 --> 01:37:18.757
you know lots of we braced for yeah and got weirder and weirder and weirder

01:37:18.757 --> 01:37:22.297
and then finally one day and it was really like a light bulb moment you're just

01:37:22.297 --> 01:37:28.197
like oh we are literally talking about books it was just like that and then

01:37:28.197 --> 01:37:31.657
once we got it we knew that was it like no more discussion.

01:37:32.077 --> 01:37:35.297
Yes, but there was all kinds of goofy stuff before that. Weird names started.

01:37:35.537 --> 01:37:38.317
We got country trying to think of something, you know.

01:37:39.117 --> 01:37:44.017
Yeah, so quite literally books. What's the future? What do you hope to achieve

01:37:44.017 --> 01:37:47.257
with this publishing company?

01:37:47.857 --> 01:37:52.377
Well, you know, we've said this and I kind of talked about it.

01:37:52.517 --> 01:37:57.137
Like, we think that a good book from yesterday is a great place to start a conversation today.

01:37:57.377 --> 01:38:02.077
So we're hoping to help build out a community that engages around these books

01:38:02.077 --> 01:38:09.317
and is, you know, sort of develops a facility in how we have difficult conversations.

01:38:10.037 --> 01:38:16.637
This is, this isn't easy stuff. And there's a lot of, a lot of things that sort

01:38:16.637 --> 01:38:20.357
of, like we're not talking about Dorothy Canfield Fisher, like how does one

01:38:20.357 --> 01:38:22.157
person like believe this and do that.

01:38:22.377 --> 01:38:27.297
Like, you know, this is the state of human beings. This is how we are.

01:38:27.797 --> 01:38:31.837
And we have to get better at talking about that.

01:38:31.877 --> 01:38:39.217
And we have to get better at figuring out, you know, is something so egregious

01:38:39.217 --> 01:38:42.437
that we, you know, cancel it? It's like we're done with it?

01:38:42.617 --> 01:38:49.297
Or do we go kind of where the pain is and figure out what that tension point is?

01:38:49.457 --> 01:38:53.297
You know, do we keep sweeping things under the rug, or do we deal with it?

01:38:53.677 --> 01:38:59.437
And we're hoping that this sort of plays, I mean, it'll be a small role,

01:38:59.617 --> 01:39:05.157
but maybe it can be an important role because this change happens one conversation at a time.

01:39:06.307 --> 01:39:10.487
Yeah. Well, I mean, you can make the same argument about this podcast.

01:39:11.627 --> 01:39:17.487
You know, it's just a small role, but, you know, I'm trying to do the best I can.

01:39:18.107 --> 01:39:22.267
And what makes it easy is having great guests like you all.

01:39:22.507 --> 01:39:29.147
So Bremond McDougall and Lisa Cooper, I greatly appreciate y'all coming on.

01:39:29.507 --> 01:39:31.547
I wish you much success.

01:39:32.107 --> 01:39:40.267
And I think it was me personally, I think it was rather ingenious that you decided

01:39:40.267 --> 01:39:47.767
to uplift female authors that at the time may have been respected,

01:39:47.767 --> 01:39:53.307
but have been forgotten about in the long run and to remind people about their

01:39:53.307 --> 01:39:57.427
greatness and the great literature that they put out.

01:39:57.627 --> 01:40:01.227
So I thank you for that. And I thank you for coming on the podcast.

01:40:01.547 --> 01:40:05.447
Thank you so much for having us. This has been a really great conversation.

01:40:06.467 --> 01:40:09.947
All right. All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and catch y'all on the other side.

01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:22.320
Music.

01:40:21.787 --> 01:40:26.607
All right. And we are back. So I just want to thank Jordan Colvin,

01:40:27.327 --> 01:40:38.007
Braymone, McDougal, and Lisa Cooper for coming on the podcast and talking about

01:40:38.007 --> 01:40:43.687
their endeavors and their thoughts about what's going on in the world.

01:40:43.687 --> 01:40:48.967
And, you know, one thing that I did gather from them was there is some hope.

01:40:50.367 --> 01:40:56.047
And what I appreciate is that they are out there doing what they can,

01:40:56.287 --> 01:41:00.387
whether it's through a publishing company or lobbying, whatever,

01:41:01.607 --> 01:41:06.747
you know, given political analysis, whatever they can contribute to make sure

01:41:06.747 --> 01:41:10.067
that we keep moving forward.

01:41:11.507 --> 01:41:15.307
You know, the actions of people make a difference.

01:41:16.587 --> 01:41:20.007
And, you know, the old adage, action speaks louder than words.

01:41:21.367 --> 01:41:30.867
So I think the lesson that we should learn from previous elections is that we

01:41:30.867 --> 01:41:37.187
need to know a lot more about the people that are offering themselves to run.

01:41:38.547 --> 01:41:44.107
And not get caught up in a trap. See, I can speak to this as a black person.

01:41:46.007 --> 01:41:56.147
Because one of the advantages of being a black elected official or being a black

01:41:56.147 --> 01:42:01.607
politician is if you're running in a district that is majority black,

01:42:02.967 --> 01:42:07.927
You know, people are going to gravity to you. Now, if you're running in a,

01:42:08.227 --> 01:42:10.767
or if you're, let me, a better example.

01:42:11.207 --> 01:42:15.647
If you're running statewide, once black people find out that you're black,

01:42:15.827 --> 01:42:17.687
they're going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

01:42:18.507 --> 01:42:22.067
And they're going to get behind you. Now, if you turn out to be a scoundrel,

01:42:22.547 --> 01:42:28.327
turn out to be a lowlife, they're going to abandon you quicker than you can blink.

01:42:29.047 --> 01:42:33.567
Right? Right. But if you're a good person, black folks are going to get behind you.

01:42:34.427 --> 01:42:38.887
The negative side, of course, is that everybody else ain't going to like you

01:42:38.887 --> 01:42:45.227
too much until you're able to convince them that you're the right person for that job. Right.

01:42:47.147 --> 01:42:51.207
Which is fair, you know, because, you know, you're under more scrutiny.

01:42:51.207 --> 01:42:59.427
And I throw that example out because even now, I think we as black people need to be more,

01:42:59.687 --> 01:43:06.287
have more scrutiny and not just vote for the black face that's there. Right.

01:43:06.547 --> 01:43:13.587
We need to really know who these people are, what their positions are. Right.

01:43:14.287 --> 01:43:19.287
Now, I'm not big on character assassination.

01:43:20.727 --> 01:43:25.427
You know, I've been a target of that. I've had to deal with that.

01:43:25.507 --> 01:43:28.727
And I think anybody that's been in the public light and public service has had

01:43:28.727 --> 01:43:30.147
to deal with that. Right.

01:43:31.947 --> 01:43:37.407
And, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

01:43:37.407 --> 01:43:43.047
I think the most personal thing people need to understand about a candidate

01:43:43.047 --> 01:43:48.627
is how they are around people, right?

01:43:50.049 --> 01:43:54.249
And how they interact with people when they think nobody is looking.

01:43:55.109 --> 01:43:59.609
And I guess that's one thing that this new age of technology is like.

01:43:59.729 --> 01:44:05.129
It catches people in moments when they don't think that they're being scrutinized,

01:44:05.629 --> 01:44:08.069
right? And you can really see their true selves.

01:44:09.429 --> 01:44:14.209
And if you're attracted to people who are obnoxious and rude and crazy,

01:44:14.429 --> 01:44:17.589
well, you know, there's plenty of candidates out there. There's a whole political

01:44:17.589 --> 01:44:20.809
party, in my opinion, that feels that way.

01:44:21.189 --> 01:44:27.709
You know, and I recently just asked somebody a question about somebody that I see on TV all the time.

01:44:27.849 --> 01:44:33.469
And they said, are they really that obnoxious or is that just an act for TV?

01:44:33.629 --> 01:44:37.389
And I said, yeah, yeah, that person really is. So, you know,

01:44:37.529 --> 01:44:41.149
if you can read people, right?

01:44:42.129 --> 01:44:45.469
And if you can read people, then you can make an assessment.

01:44:45.469 --> 01:44:47.329
Now, you know, they might sound good.

01:44:47.609 --> 01:44:51.189
There's a lot of people that make a living selling stuff, right?

01:44:53.029 --> 01:44:57.789
And your only interaction with them is if they're trying to sell you a TV or

01:44:57.789 --> 01:45:02.869
a car or whatever the case may be. You don't really know anything personal about

01:45:02.869 --> 01:45:04.149
them and you don't really care.

01:45:04.929 --> 01:45:09.309
You're not concerned about what commission they got. You want to know if the

01:45:09.309 --> 01:45:12.349
product that they're trying to sell you is what you really want.

01:45:13.229 --> 01:45:17.269
And then sometimes, you know, the product doesn't live up to all the hype that

01:45:17.269 --> 01:45:20.569
was given. But that's salesmanship, right?

01:45:21.089 --> 01:45:27.389
And politics is kind of like that. It's salesmanship because the only commodity

01:45:27.389 --> 01:45:30.289
that you're dealing with is trust.

01:45:31.029 --> 01:45:35.649
You know, you have to trust the person that is presenting themselves to you

01:45:35.649 --> 01:45:39.889
that they are going to do the best job in your best interest.

01:45:41.169 --> 01:45:46.969
And why I say your best interest, not just selfishly, but community-wise, right?

01:45:48.129 --> 01:45:52.689
Are they going to be good for black folks? Are they going to be good for our city?

01:45:52.809 --> 01:45:56.249
They're going to be good for our county, our state, our nation, right?

01:45:57.289 --> 01:46:01.029
So, you know, you've got to weigh all that at the end.

01:46:02.749 --> 01:46:07.649
And you've got to be able to decipher some of the stuff that they say to make

01:46:07.649 --> 01:46:12.969
sure it lines up with your wallet and your safety, your family's safety,

01:46:13.109 --> 01:46:16.749
your friend's safety, and their wallets, right?

01:46:17.309 --> 01:46:22.309
You don't want to elect somebody that's talking some way and you find out the

01:46:22.309 --> 01:46:26.929
code that they were using was basically to get rid of your job, right?

01:46:27.689 --> 01:46:32.969
So, you know, I don't get mad at people in West Virginia when folks say,

01:46:33.089 --> 01:46:36.829
yeah, we're going to get rid of coal and these folks are working in the coal

01:46:36.829 --> 01:46:37.849
industry, they're like, well,

01:46:38.649 --> 01:46:40.849
yeah, I'm not voting for somebody who's going to get rid of coal,

01:46:41.249 --> 01:46:42.969
right? That makes sense.

01:46:44.117 --> 01:46:50.277
Although I don't think people need to be killing themselves working in a coal

01:46:50.277 --> 01:46:52.437
mine anymore, but that's just me.

01:46:53.057 --> 01:46:58.357
Those folks in West Virginia have a whole culture of that. And so if you're

01:46:58.357 --> 01:47:01.217
not going to give them a better option, you're just saying, I'm going to get

01:47:01.217 --> 01:47:05.537
rid of their job. They're not going to support you, right? That makes sense.

01:47:07.517 --> 01:47:12.017
So, you know, you have to look at candidates.

01:47:12.817 --> 01:47:16.737
And I'm not saying this in a critical way.

01:47:17.197 --> 01:47:25.357
I'm just saying that we have to do a better job collectively of looking at candidates and deciding.

01:47:25.597 --> 01:47:31.197
Because now the new flavor is youth, right?

01:47:31.197 --> 01:47:37.037
So we've got this struggle within the Democratic Party where a young man,

01:47:37.197 --> 01:47:41.277
David Holt, who I think is Holt.

01:47:41.457 --> 01:47:45.617
I don't want to say Hogg, but Hogg might be the correct pronunciation.

01:47:45.937 --> 01:47:50.797
But David's a newly elected vice chair of the Democratic National Committee.

01:47:51.857 --> 01:48:01.897
And he set up a PAC to try to get younger, more activist candidates to run against incumbents.

01:48:03.177 --> 01:48:10.497
Not necessarily all incumbents, just incumbents in seats that are like super

01:48:10.497 --> 01:48:12.437
Democratic seats, right?

01:48:13.437 --> 01:48:19.197
So either way it goes, it'll be a Democrat. Whoever wins the primary will probably win the election.

01:48:19.997 --> 01:48:23.977
Those are the districts that he's targeting. And if there's not a quote-unquote

01:48:23.977 --> 01:48:31.257
progressive person or young person in that position, then David wants and his

01:48:31.257 --> 01:48:32.837
organization wants to primary them.

01:48:33.657 --> 01:48:37.637
Now, one of the old lions who I'm about tired of hearing myself,

01:48:37.857 --> 01:48:43.677
but he's earned his place and respect in Democratic circles, James Carville, was.

01:48:46.070 --> 01:48:52.450
Haseley wants to tar and feather David. He wants to string David out.

01:48:52.610 --> 01:48:56.810
He wants him to be kicked out of politics and the Democratic Party and all that stuff.

01:48:57.870 --> 01:49:02.390
Because he doesn't believe in that. But, you know, I have to remind James because,

01:49:02.770 --> 01:49:05.130
you know, he was Bill Clinton's campaign manager.

01:49:05.730 --> 01:49:12.630
And Bill Clinton was the new idea for the Democratic Party, the Democratic Leadership

01:49:12.630 --> 01:49:15.050
Council and all that stuff back in the 90s.

01:49:15.610 --> 01:49:19.750
You know, Mike Espy and all those guys, you know, that they were the new breed

01:49:19.750 --> 01:49:23.710
of Democrats and they were swinging for the fences.

01:49:24.290 --> 01:49:32.210
Now, they didn't necessarily go after incumbents, but, you know, it was the same mindset.

01:49:32.450 --> 01:49:36.390
They were the new kids on the block and it was time for them to take the national

01:49:36.390 --> 01:49:39.630
stage, which is really what David's trying to do.

01:49:42.110 --> 01:49:48.850
So what I want people to understand about that is, if your incumbent is doing

01:49:48.850 --> 01:49:51.030
the job, you support them.

01:49:51.590 --> 01:49:55.230
If the incumbent is not doing the job, you replace them.

01:49:56.190 --> 01:50:00.690
I've been on, well, I've been on one end of the spectrum. I didn't replace an

01:50:00.690 --> 01:50:03.950
incumbent, but I was an incumbent that was replaced, right?

01:50:04.590 --> 01:50:10.630
So, you know, the people made a decision and they had nine years to make that call.

01:50:11.090 --> 01:50:16.930
You know, a friend of mine who's been the mayor of Jackson for eight years just got defeated.

01:50:18.170 --> 01:50:24.850
You know, in the last election, he got like almost 75 percent of the vote. But this time he lost.

01:50:25.330 --> 01:50:28.730
Right. Because people decided they want to go in a different direction.

01:50:29.250 --> 01:50:31.430
That's how politics is supposed to work.

01:50:33.190 --> 01:50:38.130
You may not like it personally If you're that candidate that loses But you deal

01:50:38.130 --> 01:50:41.470
with that That's the risk you take every time you put your name on a ballot

01:50:41.470 --> 01:50:43.510
I've lost more elections than I've won.

01:50:46.010 --> 01:50:53.090
But that's how it goes You know And so We're at a point in the Democratic Party

01:50:53.090 --> 01:50:57.250
Where it's Evolution time.

01:50:59.090 --> 01:51:03.210
It's generational time I have said it out loud and to my friends,

01:51:03.270 --> 01:51:05.230
and I'll say it again on this podcast,

01:51:06.130 --> 01:51:13.050
Kamala Harris might be the only Gen X-er we have that had a shot at being president

01:51:13.050 --> 01:51:16.110
on the Democratic side. She might be it.

01:51:17.090 --> 01:51:19.350
Because, you know, Barack is...

01:51:20.018 --> 01:51:20.918
You know, some people want to

01:51:20.918 --> 01:51:24.118
put him as a Gen X, but he's really a baby boomer based on his birth date.

01:51:24.738 --> 01:51:28.778
You know, he's the baby of the baby boomers, but he was a boomer.

01:51:30.218 --> 01:51:33.398
So, you know, Bill Clinton is a boomer.

01:51:34.718 --> 01:51:41.338
So, you know, we really did. Kamala was the only Gen X person that had a legitimate shot at winning.

01:51:41.818 --> 01:51:47.818
So my generation may not have a person become president of the United States on the Democratic side,

01:51:47.818 --> 01:51:53.998
Because now we have people like Jasmine Crockett and AOC and Maxwell Frost and

01:51:53.998 --> 01:52:00.918
all these younger generations that are emerging and have acquired political basis.

01:52:01.558 --> 01:52:06.098
And they're the ones who are saying these old folks got to go.

01:52:06.478 --> 01:52:14.578
Some are more polite than others, but, you know, it's a challenge for the leadership. Right.

01:52:15.558 --> 01:52:22.798
And maybe it was my generation's fault that we let the boomers stay in too long. I don't know.

01:52:23.818 --> 01:52:25.218
All I can say is this.

01:52:26.978 --> 01:52:31.538
Change is inevitable. And it's either going to come through evolution or it's

01:52:31.538 --> 01:52:34.518
going to come through revolution. But change is coming.

01:52:35.978 --> 01:52:40.858
And, you know, I definitely think there needs to be a change on the other side

01:52:40.858 --> 01:52:44.418
of the aisle. But change is coming for the Democrats, too.

01:52:44.718 --> 01:52:51.278
And those of us who are now observing need to watch how that dynamic goes.

01:52:51.938 --> 01:52:57.258
But that goes back to the initial statement I made to you all is that you have

01:52:57.258 --> 01:53:00.698
to pay attention to what these people are saying.

01:53:02.239 --> 01:53:08.939
New hotness may not be right at this particular time for your district or,

01:53:08.959 --> 01:53:16.199
you know, whether it's legislative or congressional or in your city or in your state.

01:53:16.759 --> 01:53:23.559
But if it is, support it. If it's not, don't support it, right?

01:53:24.659 --> 01:53:32.359
Go with who you think has the best interests of your community and your household.

01:53:33.339 --> 01:53:38.579
I'm careful about being too selfish about it because there are some folks that,

01:53:39.739 --> 01:53:42.539
you know, and I want you, well, let me put it this way.

01:53:42.739 --> 01:53:48.839
I want you to be egalitarian about it. I want you to be open-minded about it.

01:53:50.459 --> 01:53:54.259
If a white person is the best person to represent black folks,

01:53:54.399 --> 01:53:55.559
then vote for the white person.

01:53:55.999 --> 01:53:59.679
If a black person is the best person to represent white folks,

01:54:00.059 --> 01:54:03.079
then vote for the black person. That make sense?

01:54:03.779 --> 01:54:08.519
It's it's it goes back to the quote that I read, Jordan.

01:54:09.159 --> 01:54:13.619
You know, George Washington was not a big fan of the political party system.

01:54:14.219 --> 01:54:19.659
He felt that the best person, of course, back then it was only men,

01:54:19.839 --> 01:54:25.759
but the best person should be elected, regardless of what they run for.

01:54:26.299 --> 01:54:28.919
Shouldn't matter what political party they're a part of.

01:54:29.799 --> 01:54:36.259
I'm biased because I've been a Democratic Party activist all my life. So I root for my team.

01:54:37.987 --> 01:54:42.327
Most of y'all are not like that. You're not committed like I am.

01:54:43.107 --> 01:54:48.367
So you have that option to decide who's the best.

01:54:48.527 --> 01:54:54.107
If you think the Republican is best, and again, I'm biased because I don't see

01:54:54.107 --> 01:54:56.427
how you could think that, but we'll be fair.

01:54:56.927 --> 01:54:59.727
If you think the Republican is the best, you vote for a Republican.

01:54:59.727 --> 01:55:02.887
If you think the Democrat is the best, then you vote for that Democrat.

01:55:03.627 --> 01:55:07.347
If you think the Independent is the best, you vote for the Independent because

01:55:07.347 --> 01:55:12.007
in New York City, there's going to be about four independent options,

01:55:12.187 --> 01:55:17.527
including the incumbent mayor, right? And they're in that election coming up.

01:55:17.707 --> 01:55:23.987
So, I want y'all to be really diligent, whether you got an election this year

01:55:23.987 --> 01:55:28.687
or in 2026, while we still have the luxury of having elections.

01:55:29.787 --> 01:55:33.907
I want y'all to be really diligent about it. I want you to pay attention to

01:55:33.907 --> 01:55:39.847
these folks, because a lot of folks are getting by on the get-by.

01:55:40.407 --> 01:55:47.687
You know, well, you know, Bubba went to the right school, and he's a member

01:55:47.687 --> 01:55:52.067
of the right church, and, you know, he says some things that I like,

01:55:52.147 --> 01:55:53.127
so I'm going to vote for him.

01:55:54.747 --> 01:55:58.487
You know, look at the economic situations of Mississippi, Alabama,

01:55:59.767 --> 01:56:07.927
Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Georgia outside of Atlanta and see if that

01:56:07.927 --> 01:56:09.907
logic matches with what's going on.

01:56:10.007 --> 01:56:14.987
Even my good friends in West Virginia, you know, yeah, you'll vote for the guy

01:56:14.987 --> 01:56:18.967
that's supporting the coal mine, but he's going to cut your benefit, right?

01:56:21.167 --> 01:56:25.787
So pay attention to everything that these candidates are saying. Press them.

01:56:25.987 --> 01:56:31.947
What I see going on with these town halls now is great, but we shouldn't have to get angry to do that.

01:56:33.378 --> 01:56:38.398
Know, and everything was kind of smooth, I call a townhouse meeting, 10 people will show up.

01:56:38.918 --> 01:56:43.538
If something crazy was happening, the fire marshal had to come in and make sure

01:56:43.538 --> 01:56:46.158
that, you know, everything was cool, right?

01:56:46.998 --> 01:56:53.298
We shouldn't be just reactive all the time in our politics. We should be proactive.

01:56:53.638 --> 01:56:54.678
We should pay attention.

01:56:55.618 --> 01:56:59.278
If an elected official is showing up in your neighborhood, in your community,

01:56:59.658 --> 01:57:01.678
might need to make some time to go.

01:57:02.438 --> 01:57:09.558
If you can't, you can't. But if you can, make the effort because you voted for these people.

01:57:10.258 --> 01:57:13.758
Even if you voted for their opponent, you participate in an election.

01:57:13.758 --> 01:57:19.438
That person now is the leader, the chosen one, not in a biblical sense.

01:57:19.658 --> 01:57:22.238
Let's get that straight. But they were elected.

01:57:23.018 --> 01:57:30.458
So if they show up to be accountable, you need to show up to hold them accountable, right?

01:57:30.618 --> 01:57:34.798
Don't just wait till the potholes are too big on your street,

01:57:34.798 --> 01:57:40.078
or they're talking about closing the school, or, you know, taking away your

01:57:40.078 --> 01:57:41.798
rights. Don't wait for that.

01:57:42.438 --> 01:57:48.238
If you hold them accountable from day one, then they'll be hard-pressed to do

01:57:48.238 --> 01:57:51.858
anything that's against the interests of the people they represent.

01:57:52.918 --> 01:57:56.218
But if we just go on with our daily lives and act like, well,

01:57:56.478 --> 01:57:59.678
you know, we do trust them to handle that, so we're just going to let them handle

01:57:59.678 --> 01:58:03.878
it and don't have any input, then when they do something crazy, now we're upset.

01:58:04.698 --> 01:58:08.978
But if they don't feel that they're accountable to anybody, they're going to do what they want to do.

01:58:09.758 --> 01:58:13.078
Democrat, Republican, independent, dogcat, it doesn't matter.

01:58:13.918 --> 01:58:18.638
It's human nature. You wanted to get out of your parents' house so you could do your own thing.

01:58:19.058 --> 01:58:24.198
Well, if you don't hold elected officials accountable, they're going to do their own thing.

01:58:24.678 --> 01:58:26.818
You got to hold these people accountable.

01:58:27.358 --> 01:58:31.458
You can't deify them. You can't put them on a pedestal.

01:58:32.258 --> 01:58:36.818
You can't make them more than human. You got to hold them accountable.

01:58:37.178 --> 01:58:40.318
Yes, you voted for them because you've

01:58:40.318 --> 01:58:46.258
given them your trust to handle the government society business right.

01:58:47.620 --> 01:58:55.260
But doesn't mean that they should go unchecked. And so I think if we were more engaged,

01:58:56.460 --> 01:59:01.960
and even if you can't go, find out from somebody who went, hey,

01:59:02.080 --> 01:59:03.980
so what's going on with that? I heard they had a meeting.

01:59:04.780 --> 01:59:07.500
Most of y'all don't even, if y'all didn't go, y'all don't even ask the question.

01:59:08.420 --> 01:59:14.360
Find out. A lot of these meetings are online. They're on YouTube or whatever.

01:59:15.380 --> 01:59:20.560
You can go back and look at it. You know, you can stream it on your phone.

01:59:21.960 --> 01:59:29.080
I mean, there's plenty of opportunities for us to stay engaged and to pay attention

01:59:29.080 --> 01:59:30.420
to what these folks are doing.

01:59:31.420 --> 01:59:36.180
And I think it's even more incumbent upon us now to do that because,

01:59:36.820 --> 01:59:39.860
you know, just the day and age that we're living in, man, it's,

01:59:40.060 --> 01:59:44.120
we just have to do it. I know it sounds tedious.

01:59:44.480 --> 01:59:46.780
I know it sounds boring.

01:59:47.720 --> 01:59:52.620
But because we didn't do it, we're in the situation we're in now.

01:59:53.140 --> 01:59:57.140
Because we took things for granted, now things might be taken away.

01:59:57.140 --> 02:00:03.920
So I'm asking y'all to be diligent, pay attention to what's going on.

02:00:04.420 --> 02:00:09.060
Don't get caught up in the fights or whether we should have new leaders or old

02:00:09.060 --> 02:00:13.000
leaders or whatever the case may be. We just need American leaders.

02:00:13.740 --> 02:00:21.120
We just need people to give a damn about us and our rights and focus in,

02:00:21.620 --> 02:00:23.660
focus our energy on that.

02:00:24.800 --> 02:00:29.180
And once we give them that opportunity, hold them accountable.

02:00:30.400 --> 02:00:33.960
All right, guys. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.

02:00:34.160 --> 02:01:22.101
Music.