Belief, Millennials & Nationalism Featuring Leslie Marshall, Charlie Wells and Dr. Vincent Adejumo

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.117
Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

00:00:06.417 --> 00:00:08.977
I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

00:00:09.337 --> 00:00:12.737
If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

00:00:13.257 --> 00:00:19.397
First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.

00:00:19.757 --> 00:00:24.637
Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

00:00:24.637 --> 00:00:27.957
truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.

00:00:28.557 --> 00:00:32.837
Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

00:00:32.837 --> 00:00:35.577
listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

00:00:36.457 --> 00:00:41.917
Third, go to the website, momenterik.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

00:00:42.297 --> 00:00:47.257
leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

00:00:47.857 --> 00:00:51.857
Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

00:00:52.577 --> 00:00:57.097
Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast

00:00:57.097 --> 00:01:02.417
and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

00:01:02.417 --> 00:01:04.177
make this moment a movement.

00:01:04.537 --> 00:01:10.177
Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

00:01:11.337 --> 00:01:16.377
The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.

00:01:56.528 --> 00:02:01.728
Hello, and welcome to another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

00:02:02.228 --> 00:02:07.088
And we have a great show for you this episode.

00:02:07.548 --> 00:02:13.228
We're going to be talking to a young lady who fights the good fight for us on Fox News.

00:02:14.248 --> 00:02:20.948
We got a young man who took it upon himself to defend his generation of millennials.

00:02:21.448 --> 00:02:28.088
And we got a brother who has done some scholarly work on Black nationalism.

00:02:28.728 --> 00:02:36.208
And so, as you can see, it's a wide range of topics, but it's all very timely

00:02:36.208 --> 00:02:40.448
and all very entertaining guests.

00:02:40.668 --> 00:02:45.948
And I think you'll appreciate the conversations that we have.

00:02:47.908 --> 00:02:55.348
So I want to give an update before we send it to Grace. You're going to hear...

00:02:56.123 --> 00:03:02.583
In the news summary that there was an arrest made, following what's been happening

00:03:02.583 --> 00:03:05.163
in Minnesota after the murder of Renee Good,

00:03:05.683 --> 00:03:14.323
there was a group of activists who went to a church that is pastored by the

00:03:14.323 --> 00:03:18.103
director of ICE in the Twin Cities.

00:03:19.203 --> 00:03:24.903
And the group went there to the Sunday service and staged a protest.

00:03:24.903 --> 00:03:29.983
A lot of you may have heard of it because they were trying to arrest Don Lemon,

00:03:30.003 --> 00:03:31.463
who was just there to cover it.

00:03:32.123 --> 00:03:37.063
But the young lady that we had on last week, Nekima Levy Armstrong,

00:03:37.623 --> 00:03:44.003
who, you know, gave us an update about what's going on in Minnesota and how

00:03:44.003 --> 00:03:48.183
they're dealing with that situation up there, the total ICE invasion.

00:03:48.243 --> 00:03:52.843
She was one of the organizers of the protest, and so they arrested her.

00:03:52.843 --> 00:04:00.123
So she's one of three people that got arrested and they could not get an indictment on Mr. Lemon.

00:04:00.823 --> 00:04:04.363
And that, you know, because he was a reporter and that's, I mean,

00:04:04.443 --> 00:04:10.343
he was just there to cover the story. But Sister Levy Armstrong was one of the

00:04:10.343 --> 00:04:13.043
organizers of the protest, and so she was arrested.

00:04:13.243 --> 00:04:18.403
So, yeah, I'll pray for her and the others to get out.

00:04:18.703 --> 00:04:25.083
And, you know, I think the way things are going that, you know,

00:04:25.303 --> 00:04:31.543
after the November elections, that case and some others are going to be dropped.

00:04:31.543 --> 00:04:37.863
You know, because, you know, they're trying to invoke an act called the Ku Klux Klan Act,

00:04:38.323 --> 00:04:43.843
which was designed to keep white supremacists from burning down black churches,

00:04:43.843 --> 00:04:48.383
but they wanted to apply it to this protest.

00:04:49.183 --> 00:04:52.663
So, you know, the indictment thing happened.

00:04:53.413 --> 00:04:56.533
You know, if you couch it a certain way, you can get the indictment.

00:04:56.713 --> 00:05:04.093
But what they did, from what I saw in the videos, was nothing more than just a protest.

00:05:04.433 --> 00:05:10.773
They didn't harm anybody in the face, anything. They just were being disruptive at the church.

00:05:11.453 --> 00:05:19.233
And so it's not anything worth a felony charge. If they had burned the church down, okay.

00:05:19.813 --> 00:05:26.693
But, you know, The protests in the church is like, most protests I've seen have

00:05:26.693 --> 00:05:27.673
been outside the church.

00:05:28.113 --> 00:05:35.113
I've never seen anybody be allowed to come into the church and protest. So there's that.

00:05:36.393 --> 00:05:44.633
But, you know, it happened. And so we're praying for Nekima and the others to

00:05:44.633 --> 00:05:48.053
not only get out, but to get those charges dropped.

00:05:48.973 --> 00:05:55.393
And you know but if you know like I said she's she's been a guest a couple of

00:05:55.393 --> 00:06:01.093
times on this podcast and so if you know to keep this podcast open so people

00:06:01.093 --> 00:06:02.853
like Nekima can come on and

00:06:03.213 --> 00:06:08.793
explain what's going on whatever support you can give we greatly appreciate

00:06:08.793 --> 00:06:15.953
that but I do appreciate you all listening so please go to the www.momenterik.com

00:06:15.953 --> 00:06:18.753
and continue to show the support for the podcast.

00:06:19.473 --> 00:06:22.393
All right. Now we've updated y'all on that.

00:06:22.893 --> 00:06:29.313
It's time to kick this program off. And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

00:06:36.552 --> 00:06:40.652
Thanks, Erik. Federal authorities arrested three Minneapolis activists,

00:06:40.972 --> 00:06:45.072
including Nekima Levy Armstrong, for allegedly obstructing a house of worship

00:06:45.072 --> 00:06:48.652
during a protest against a pastor with ties to ICE leadership.

00:06:49.372 --> 00:06:53.772
Former special counsel Jack Smith testified before a House committee to defend

00:06:53.772 --> 00:06:58.212
his past investigations into Donald Trump's actions after the 2020 election.

00:06:58.752 --> 00:07:03.292
A U.S. appeals court overturned a federal judge in Minnesota who restricted U.S.

00:07:03.372 --> 00:07:07.952
Immigration agents from using retaliatory tactics or detaining peaceful protesters

00:07:07.952 --> 00:07:10.232
following the fatal shooting of Renee Good.

00:07:10.492 --> 00:07:14.652
The Justice Department has subpoenaed Minnesota state and city officials to

00:07:14.652 --> 00:07:18.492
investigate whether their opposition to federal immigration enforcement surges

00:07:18.492 --> 00:07:21.092
constitutes a lack of cooperation.

00:07:21.412 --> 00:07:26.032
President Trump has issued a pardon for former Puerto Rico Governor Wanda Vasquez

00:07:26.032 --> 00:07:30.212
Garced, who was indicted in 2022 on a federal bribery charge.

00:07:30.552 --> 00:07:34.872
Virginia's Democratic controlled legislature has approved a constitutional amendment

00:07:34.872 --> 00:07:38.892
to allow lawmakers to redraw congressional lines. A U.S.

00:07:39.252 --> 00:07:44.692
District judge in Virginia ordered prosecutor Lindsay Halligan to stop identifying herself as a U.S.

00:07:44.812 --> 00:07:48.132
Attorney following a ruling that her appointment was unlawful.

00:07:48.572 --> 00:07:52.472
A New York judge ordered the state's only Republican-held congressional district

00:07:52.472 --> 00:07:54.592
to be redrawn by February 6.

00:07:54.932 --> 00:07:59.132
President Trump backed away from threats to impose tariffs to acquire Greenland,

00:07:59.292 --> 00:08:01.092
instead seeking a strategic deal

00:08:01.092 --> 00:08:05.412
with NATO allies to secure Arctic defense interests and mineral access.

00:08:05.692 --> 00:08:11.092
A Texas jury acquitted a former school police officer of all 29 felony child

00:08:11.092 --> 00:08:16.092
endangerment charges related to his response during the 2022 mass shooting at

00:08:16.092 --> 00:08:18.112
Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

00:08:18.172 --> 00:08:23.232
A Mississippi jury acquitted a white Mississippi man of all charges related

00:08:23.232 --> 00:08:27.952
to the 2025 hit-and-run death of a 10-year-old black boy, Jordan Hill.

00:08:28.512 --> 00:08:30.632
And South Carolina health officials

00:08:30.632 --> 00:08:35.112
reported that the state's measles outbreak has grown to 646 cases.

00:08:35.532 --> 00:08:39.172
I am Grace Gee, and this has been A Moment of News.

00:08:46.230 --> 00:08:51.170
All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for

00:08:51.170 --> 00:08:53.750
my guest, Leslie Marshall.

00:08:54.170 --> 00:08:58.910
Leslie Marshall is a nationally syndicated radio host who has been hosting a

00:08:58.910 --> 00:09:01.450
liberal talk show for over 30 years.

00:09:01.630 --> 00:09:07.150
The youngest female to host a political issues-oriented program back in 1992

00:09:07.150 --> 00:09:11.230
when she replaced Tom Snyder on the ABC radio network.

00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:16.490
Marshall branched out into television and is now a Fox News contributor on Fox

00:09:16.490 --> 00:09:20.650
News Channel, where she's been a part of that crew for over 18 years.

00:09:21.190 --> 00:09:25.810
Leslie can be seen regularly on such shows as Special Report,

00:09:26.190 --> 00:09:32.630
Outnumbered, The Faulkner Focus, The Story, and she also sits in on The Five.

00:09:33.250 --> 00:09:37.950
Leslie also does public speaking events and is an ambassador for Northeastern

00:09:37.950 --> 00:09:40.650
University, where she did her undergrad degree.

00:09:40.890 --> 00:09:44.150
She also attended the master's program at Emerson.

00:09:44.650 --> 00:09:49.550
Originally from Boston, Leslie now makes her home in Los Angeles with her husband,

00:09:49.890 --> 00:09:51.750
their two children, and their dog.

00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:57.810
She is grateful to have just moved back into their home after it was damaged in the Eden Canyon fire.

00:09:58.110 --> 00:10:02.490
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:10:02.490 --> 00:10:05.490
on this podcast, Leslie Marshall.

00:10:16.622 --> 00:10:20.502
All right. Leslie Marshall, how are you doing, ma'am? You doing good?

00:10:21.042 --> 00:10:24.322
I'm doing good. Thank you for asking. How about you? I'm doing good.

00:10:24.542 --> 00:10:27.402
I'm doing good, you know, considering the times that we're in.

00:10:27.722 --> 00:10:31.562
But I'm blessed to be here and be able to have this podcast and be able to have

00:10:31.562 --> 00:10:34.222
somebody like you to come on.

00:10:34.222 --> 00:10:40.622
And for my listeners, Leslie Marshall, if we were talking in Revolutionary War

00:10:40.622 --> 00:10:48.962
terms, Leslie Marshall is a daughter of liberty that resides in a Tory town, if that makes sense.

00:10:49.822 --> 00:10:56.422
Totally. She has been a stalwart on Fox since. How long have you been on Fox?

00:10:57.282 --> 00:11:03.002
I've been under contract with Fox for over 18 years, but I've been on Fox like over 20.

00:11:03.002 --> 00:11:07.162
And I say that because a lot of people probably aren't aware when they watch

00:11:07.162 --> 00:11:10.482
talking heads or political pundits, as many of us are referred to,

00:11:10.702 --> 00:11:16.422
on networks, cable or non-cable major networks, most people you're watching aren't being paid.

00:11:16.662 --> 00:11:20.682
But when you hear somebody like me referred to as a Fox News contributor,

00:11:21.022 --> 00:11:22.662
that means you're on the payroll.

00:11:22.662 --> 00:11:29.882
So I always say back in the day, I was on Fox and CNN and CNBC and MSNBC,

00:11:29.882 --> 00:11:33.162
and then Roger Ailes put a ring on it.

00:11:34.282 --> 00:11:37.882
So I've been under contract just with Fox over 18.

00:11:38.522 --> 00:11:44.902
Okay, yeah. So, like I said, she's been there for almost a duration of the network.

00:11:45.122 --> 00:11:49.742
So she has been since, you know, this is my podcast.

00:11:49.982 --> 00:11:53.902
She's been our voice on Fox News for a long time.

00:11:55.082 --> 00:12:00.482
Leslie, what I normally like to do is I do a couple of icebreakers to kind of kick the interview off.

00:12:01.662 --> 00:12:05.862
So the first icebreaker I do is a quote that I want you to respond to.

00:12:05.862 --> 00:12:10.062
And the quote is, never lie about what you believe.

00:12:10.906 --> 00:12:13.846
Oh, I love that quote. Let me tell you why.

00:12:14.826 --> 00:12:19.146
Years ago, when I was first starting in talk radio, didn't have any TV that

00:12:19.146 --> 00:12:21.906
I was doing, I was in Miami, Florida.

00:12:22.346 --> 00:12:26.426
I was doing news at a station called WNWS, which I think is still there.

00:12:26.606 --> 00:12:30.206
It was a 50,000-watt powerhouse, so you could get calls from Cuba,

00:12:30.446 --> 00:12:36.306
you know? and I was invited to a Passover dinner by this woman who had been

00:12:36.306 --> 00:12:39.886
the publicist for a woman I interviewed who had written a book.

00:12:40.206 --> 00:12:44.466
And I say that because I was then at the time just starting talk radio and I

00:12:44.466 --> 00:12:47.186
was doing the 6 a.m. to 9 a.m.

00:12:47.266 --> 00:12:50.226
Weekend shift that nobody wanted and hardly anybody listened to.

00:12:50.666 --> 00:12:56.566
And so this woman was really nice and invited me because I didn't have a lot a family in Miami.

00:12:56.806 --> 00:13:00.666
I'm from Boston, and I was fairly new to town. And when I walked in,

00:13:00.826 --> 00:13:04.666
she said a friend would be joining who I might be interested in meeting, and it was Larry King.

00:13:06.166 --> 00:13:10.226
And Larry and I became fast friends. We were friends throughout his whole life.

00:13:10.426 --> 00:13:17.486
And at the beginning, I asked him, do you have any tips for me as a talk show host on radio?

00:13:17.726 --> 00:13:21.306
Because I would like to do TV, you know, someday. And I would like to get off

00:13:21.306 --> 00:13:23.566
the 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. Saturday, Sunday shift.

00:13:24.086 --> 00:13:27.926
And he said, always tell the truth.

00:13:28.606 --> 00:13:33.646
Even if it's not popular, even if it's not what your group believes,

00:13:33.926 --> 00:13:36.206
always tell the truth. And that's what I try and do.

00:13:36.906 --> 00:13:40.846
I think that's why I've lasted so long at what I'm doing is because I do do that.

00:13:40.986 --> 00:13:45.686
I don't just tow the Democratic Party line. I do question people that are on

00:13:45.686 --> 00:13:47.526
my side, the left of the aisle.

00:13:47.726 --> 00:13:51.886
But yeah, so that quote is very powerful. I do believe that.

00:13:52.486 --> 00:13:56.846
So now the next icebreaker is what we call 20 questions. Okay.

00:13:57.106 --> 00:13:59.866
So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

00:14:00.922 --> 00:14:04.302
Of how many questions you're going to ask or the question you pick?

00:14:04.542 --> 00:14:06.082
Pick the question to pick.

00:14:07.282 --> 00:14:14.122
Oh, let's do 18. All right. What is one thing we might all agree is important

00:14:14.122 --> 00:14:15.542
no matter our differences?

00:14:16.742 --> 00:14:20.642
I think a better, safer, healthier world for our children.

00:14:21.482 --> 00:14:25.182
And I think that's something worldwide. I've been blessed to travel the world.

00:14:25.342 --> 00:14:28.742
I've lived in other countries. Pretty much everybody wants a better life for

00:14:28.742 --> 00:14:32.422
their kids than they have or had for themselves. Yeah.

00:14:33.122 --> 00:14:38.622
All right. Since you mentioned Larry King, who has had more of an influence in your career in media?

00:14:38.922 --> 00:14:42.702
Mr. King, Phil Donahue or Zsa Zsa Gabor?

00:14:43.683 --> 00:14:48.663
Oh, my God. Have you done your homework? Oh, my God. Can I answer?

00:14:49.083 --> 00:14:50.623
Okay. I already told you, Larry.

00:14:51.963 --> 00:14:56.383
Yeah, I was, I think, 12. I was watching TV with my dad, watching Phil Donahue,

00:14:56.423 --> 00:15:00.063
and he pulled a white mask off a KKK member.

00:15:00.543 --> 00:15:02.963
And like, you know, like, don't be a coward revealed who he was.

00:15:03.083 --> 00:15:06.683
And I just was so excited about the justice in it.

00:15:06.823 --> 00:15:09.843
And I said to my dad, that's what I want to do for a living,

00:15:10.063 --> 00:15:13.083
and my dad's gone, and my dad loved me and supported me.

00:15:13.143 --> 00:15:17.183
It's not going to sound that way when he said, Leslie, you're a little girl

00:15:17.183 --> 00:15:19.863
from a Boston suburb in Massachusetts.

00:15:20.703 --> 00:15:25.963
Come on, get real. That's never going to happen. I'm not Phil Donahue, but I am on TV.

00:15:27.023 --> 00:15:33.563
And Zsa Zsa Gabor was my first time I was on talk radio when a guy named Jerry

00:15:33.563 --> 00:15:37.383
got sick, and they said, go do his show. I said, I don't know how.

00:15:37.503 --> 00:15:39.663
They said, just talk. I said, about what? They said something.

00:15:39.903 --> 00:15:44.903
And People Magazine was on the desk in the studio. And it was when Zsa Zsa Gabor

00:15:44.903 --> 00:15:46.603
got arrested for assaulting an officer.

00:15:46.823 --> 00:15:50.803
And I started talking about it and the phone started ringing and it was like

00:15:50.803 --> 00:15:52.143
a drug for me. I got hooked.

00:15:52.343 --> 00:15:58.003
And so I guess I can thank or blame Zsa Zsa Gabor for my desire to be in this career.

00:15:59.223 --> 00:16:05.323
Yeah. All right. So as we're recording this, it has been one year since Donald

00:16:05.323 --> 00:16:07.063
Trump has returned to the White House.

00:16:07.583 --> 00:16:14.363
Your thoughts? Oh, I'm very frightened as to what the next three years look like.

00:16:14.543 --> 00:16:19.223
I mean, numerically, and politics is a numbers game, it's looking very good

00:16:19.223 --> 00:16:25.023
for a change of hands of control of least the House, and that somewhat cripples his ability.

00:16:25.343 --> 00:16:32.763
I say somewhat because this is a man, this is a president who sadly has a Republican

00:16:32.763 --> 00:16:36.943
following who have absolutely no spine. He has,

00:16:37.823 --> 00:16:41.703
He doesn't like rules, and they let him not follow the rules.

00:16:41.803 --> 00:16:45.663
Look, I have two teenagers, and if my kid comes home past curfew,

00:16:45.763 --> 00:16:49.863
and the next night I'm giving them the keys to the car, well, what are they saying?

00:16:49.983 --> 00:16:52.923
My mom doesn't care. I can do this repeatedly.

00:16:53.163 --> 00:16:57.103
It's conditioning, right? You know, like Pavlovian, right? You ring the bell, you get a treat.

00:16:58.243 --> 00:17:02.503
And they're just letting them wreak havoc. I mean, it seems he has no regard

00:17:02.503 --> 00:17:07.143
for our equal branches of government.

00:17:07.423 --> 00:17:11.323
The Supreme Court doesn't seem to care about the Constitution.

00:17:11.543 --> 00:17:14.023
Therefore, the president, and they're letting him have so much power.

00:17:14.243 --> 00:17:16.463
The Constitution, what is that to him?

00:17:17.183 --> 00:17:20.243
Congressional powers, what is that? Not just to him, but to Congress.

00:17:20.963 --> 00:17:26.803
So honestly, you know, for people that said, oh, we all have a Trump derangement

00:17:26.803 --> 00:17:29.243
syndrome, right? You know, TDS.

00:17:29.643 --> 00:17:35.583
I read today, I think I reposted, it's far worse than we were predicting.

00:17:37.103 --> 00:17:41.143
Nobody thought we'd be shooting people in boats, and do we know if they are,

00:17:41.283 --> 00:17:46.523
in fact, drug dealers, you know, violating international law in international

00:17:46.523 --> 00:17:48.963
waters off the coast of Venezuela.

00:17:49.443 --> 00:17:52.643
Look, Maduro's a bad guy, but the way this went down, I mean,

00:17:52.783 --> 00:17:56.743
going into his home and taking him and his wife, now Americans are not safe

00:17:56.743 --> 00:18:01.743
in Venezuela, especially in Caracas, right? You know, the largest populated city in that country.

00:18:02.823 --> 00:18:08.583
Are we going to have boots on the ground? He's got it in control. He's governing it.

00:18:08.983 --> 00:18:11.283
Canada, Mexico, and of course, Greenland.

00:18:13.163 --> 00:18:17.303
It's interesting. President of Peace, yet we call it the Department of War.

00:18:17.803 --> 00:18:20.783
President of Peace, yet we're not at peace.

00:18:20.923 --> 00:18:26.703
There are literally people posting the GI information line so that military

00:18:26.703 --> 00:18:31.903
can know their rights if they decide they don't want to do exactly what Pete

00:18:31.903 --> 00:18:35.023
Hegseth is trying to screw Mark Kelly with,

00:18:35.183 --> 00:18:38.343
Senator Mark Kelly, which is you have a right to...

00:18:38.669 --> 00:18:42.409
To disobey an order if it's illegal.

00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:48.449
You also can be a conscientious objector, you know, and not be a part of that,

00:18:48.509 --> 00:18:49.569
you know, particular conflict.

00:18:49.889 --> 00:18:53.209
Somebody else the other day said, and I think it's true, that,

00:18:53.209 --> 00:18:58.269
you know, Greenland would become Trump's Vietnam.

00:18:58.649 --> 00:19:02.389
I mean, our allies are strictly against this.

00:19:02.529 --> 00:19:07.409
And I don't want to be somebody who's stoking the flames, but this could be

00:19:07.409 --> 00:19:10.309
a World War. I mean, you know, now you've got Iran and you've got Syria.

00:19:10.529 --> 00:19:14.489
And then, of course, you know, somebody who wants to make like a resort out of Gaza.

00:19:14.849 --> 00:19:20.089
I mean, I can't. I mean, and then at the same time, you're cutting funding for

00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:23.849
cancer research, brain cancer research and pediatrics.

00:19:24.349 --> 00:19:27.709
I don't have enough time in this, you know, in our interview,

00:19:27.709 --> 00:19:30.809
in this podcast, to list all of the things.

00:19:31.789 --> 00:19:34.289
Honestly, once Democrats take power, and they will in the House,

00:19:34.289 --> 00:19:38.469
God willing, in the Senate, and then two years after that, God willing, the White House.

00:19:39.029 --> 00:19:45.289
It will literally take, I think, half of a new president's term to fix,

00:19:45.429 --> 00:19:49.069
correct, and undo everything that's been done. Think about this, right?

00:19:49.389 --> 00:19:55.069
Everything that's been done. Because you just can't let these people walk away

00:19:55.069 --> 00:20:01.649
and not be accountable and just end up being talking heads on TV or with podcasts and writing books.

00:20:02.209 --> 00:20:06.289
No, these people have to be held accountable. I'm not just talking about ICE

00:20:06.289 --> 00:20:07.949
and people who shoot women in the head.

00:20:08.129 --> 00:20:12.789
We found out not three, four times, right, or four bullets now, four gunshots.

00:20:13.309 --> 00:20:17.829
No, these people have to be held accountable. So Democrats have a big job to

00:20:17.829 --> 00:20:19.669
do. And I just want to say that, too.

00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:23.249
You know, President Trump says if Democrats get in power, they'll impeach him.

00:20:23.789 --> 00:20:27.889
People talk about and they're drafting articles of impeachment are trying to

00:20:27.889 --> 00:20:30.849
get the votes to do so against Kristi Noem. Waste of time.

00:20:31.629 --> 00:20:35.369
Waste of time and waste of money. Impeachment is only, in my opinion.

00:20:36.392 --> 00:20:41.372
A useful tool if you remove the person from office. That's really what impeachment's

00:20:41.372 --> 00:20:43.732
supposed to do. Otherwise, it's a slap on the hand.

00:20:44.252 --> 00:20:49.412
It's a lot of hours on C-SPAN, and it's a waste of taxpayer time.

00:20:49.772 --> 00:20:53.772
And it's really not what, it doesn't bring down the price of groceries either.

00:20:54.052 --> 00:21:00.412
So Democrats have to carry through on the promises they're making now once they

00:21:00.412 --> 00:21:03.472
take power, because they will in the House, like I said, hopefully in the Senate.

00:21:03.672 --> 00:21:05.032
And I do believe in the White House.

00:21:05.272 --> 00:21:08.772
I mean, we have so many people turning against Trump, the African-American community,

00:21:08.952 --> 00:21:14.692
the Latino community, and the youth and independents, and we're only one year in.

00:21:14.992 --> 00:21:17.952
So it's chaos.

00:21:18.732 --> 00:21:25.132
It's chaos with a capital C underlined in bold print with red exclamation points all around it.

00:21:25.232 --> 00:21:30.292
It is just chaos every single way you look, whether it's regarding our health,

00:21:30.512 --> 00:21:36.192
whether it is regarding our safety, our education system, our immigration system,

00:21:36.392 --> 00:21:37.952
our economic system, I mean,

00:21:38.612 --> 00:21:42.832
and so much retribution, which is just.

00:21:43.783 --> 00:21:47.203
I outside the bounce. One last thing, and I'll shut up on this one.

00:21:47.723 --> 00:21:51.523
I have never seen the word retarded used so much, seriously.

00:21:51.823 --> 00:21:53.643
Every single day, somebody calls me that.

00:21:54.443 --> 00:21:57.523
And I posted, I think this morning or yesterday, I can't remember,

00:21:57.863 --> 00:21:59.423
24-hour periods can go by, right?

00:21:59.943 --> 00:22:05.343
I look forward to when this administration is over, maggots go back into their

00:22:05.343 --> 00:22:07.743
dark cave, because it will no longer be acceptable.

00:22:07.983 --> 00:22:10.643
The red hat will be something somebody will be embarrassed to wear,

00:22:10.883 --> 00:22:14.303
and that that word is not uttered ever again.

00:22:14.663 --> 00:22:18.183
I mean, we need our nation to be decent again.

00:22:19.383 --> 00:22:25.723
At least half of it is. Yeah. I think, you know, you said a couple of things.

00:22:25.883 --> 00:22:31.723
One, you talked about Trump derange syndrome, and I heard somebody say that

00:22:31.723 --> 00:22:34.003
is better than Trump Depression Syndrome.

00:22:34.743 --> 00:22:41.823
And I agree with that because all that stuff that you just laid out,

00:22:42.083 --> 00:22:47.523
the case that you just prosecuted, could get people to a point where they're apathetic.

00:22:47.803 --> 00:22:51.023
And they're just like, man, this is just too much.

00:22:51.183 --> 00:22:54.343
It's like, either I'm going to leave the country, I'm not going to vote,

00:22:54.363 --> 00:22:56.523
I'm just going to block it out.

00:22:56.803 --> 00:23:00.043
I'd rather be deranged. I'd rather be angry.

00:23:00.243 --> 00:23:03.143
I'd rather be like, I'm crazy. I'm going to do something.

00:23:03.323 --> 00:23:06.983
Like I'm going to go vote and I'm going to protest and all this stuff rather

00:23:06.983 --> 00:23:09.223
than just be depressed and go into a hole.

00:23:09.563 --> 00:23:15.563
And, and I, and, and, and, you know, and it's very easy to fall into that trap.

00:23:15.563 --> 00:23:18.683
So I appreciate, I appreciate that.

00:23:18.943 --> 00:23:23.223
Let me, let me try to get, Oh, one other thing I wanted to say about Ms. Marshall.

00:23:24.095 --> 00:23:30.855
Oh, please call me Leslie. Leslie. One of the, you know, on December 30th,

00:23:31.115 --> 00:23:35.775
2025, Leslie got on Fox and said that Tim Walz was going to resign.

00:23:36.115 --> 00:23:39.575
And that kind of caught some people by like, really?

00:23:39.955 --> 00:23:44.255
And then a couple of weeks later, he said he wasn't going to run for a third term.

00:23:44.715 --> 00:23:51.235
So not only is Leslie plugged in as far as, you know, her opinions and all that,

00:23:51.315 --> 00:23:56.215
but she she's a reporter. So she has sources. So she knew something was getting ready to happen.

00:23:57.115 --> 00:23:59.975
And honestly, it wasn't source. I'll be honest.

00:24:01.235 --> 00:24:07.375
Knowing Tim Walz, he was look and more politicians need to be this way.

00:24:07.975 --> 00:24:12.715
There's a point where if you are in the way, you need to get out of the way.

00:24:13.915 --> 00:24:21.015
And in this whole issue of fraud in Minnesota was hurting him and it was going

00:24:21.015 --> 00:24:26.175
to hurt his chances for reelection. So he stepped aside to get out of the way.

00:24:26.935 --> 00:24:29.255
Joe Biden did the same thing.

00:24:30.775 --> 00:24:35.675
Joe might have pulled the trigger a little too late, but he did finally step away on that one.

00:24:36.035 --> 00:24:41.695
And that's, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I've been an elected official.

00:24:43.255 --> 00:24:49.815
And I think I ran one election too many when I tried to run for re-election for a third term.

00:24:49.815 --> 00:24:55.075
I was trying to Get to be the first black to be chair of the transportation

00:24:55.075 --> 00:25:03.775
committee in the Mississippi house but My opponent was somebody that I if I created one in the lab,

00:25:03.975 --> 00:25:07.955
she would have been it And so instead of instead of,

00:25:08.990 --> 00:25:12.690
Stepping back, once I saw that she was the one running, I should have just said,

00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:17.690
yeah, okay, I'll let you have it because I had my sights set on running for the U.S. Senate anyway.

00:25:19.350 --> 00:25:24.570
But, you know, ego got in the way and I got out there and she beat me.

00:25:25.070 --> 00:25:33.810
And so I think it does say a lot about Tim Walz and Joe Biden that at a point they made a decision.

00:25:34.310 --> 00:25:38.730
Yeah, it's not good for me to put myself out there again. And it's time to,

00:25:38.830 --> 00:25:40.530
like you say, step aside and all that.

00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:43.950
But it's a tough decision, and I appreciate them for doing it.

00:25:44.530 --> 00:25:48.110
All right. In the famous opening scene from the show The Newsroom,

00:25:48.790 --> 00:25:53.010
Will McAvoy said the reason why people don't like liberals is because they lose.

00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:59.790
While that may have been a popular sentiment in 2012, is that an inaccurate statement now?

00:26:00.330 --> 00:26:05.210
See, they don't like liberals because what? They lose. Oh, they lose.

00:26:05.890 --> 00:26:11.050
Well, we're not losing now, are we? We flipped 24 seats and looking at North

00:26:11.050 --> 00:26:13.690
Carolina, we're going to have like a, you know, what is it?

00:26:13.770 --> 00:26:16.330
Not a trifecta, a quad fecta there.

00:26:17.150 --> 00:26:22.590
No, I don't think liberals lose, but I do feel that we as liberals can take

00:26:22.590 --> 00:26:24.370
a page out of the Republican playbook.

00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:28.610
When Trump ran, you had the Lindsey Grahams, the Marco Rubios,

00:26:28.730 --> 00:26:33.470
the Ted Cruz's all talking about how damaging he would be to the party and to this country.

00:26:33.830 --> 00:26:37.510
And then when he became the nominee, they all fell in line.

00:26:38.130 --> 00:26:41.170
We as Democrats don't do that. We need to be united more.

00:26:41.570 --> 00:26:47.390
You can have your AOCs and your Bernie Sanders in the same party as your Joe Bidens.

00:26:47.390 --> 00:26:53.170
You know, we moderate—I'm more of a moderate Democrat, and the far-left progressive

00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:56.650
faction of the party and the people who are Democratic socialists,

00:26:56.750 --> 00:26:59.490
like Mamdani or Bernie Sanders—.

00:27:00.474 --> 00:27:03.374
You know, can coexist. And we have, you know, proven that.

00:27:03.574 --> 00:27:10.034
So one, we need to unite, in my opinion, one, two, we need to flip red seats, not blue ones.

00:27:10.794 --> 00:27:13.254
It's not like, oh, well, they're liberal, they're not liberal enough.

00:27:13.414 --> 00:27:18.394
We really need, in my opinion, to devote time, energy, money,

00:27:18.674 --> 00:27:21.334
resources into flipping red seats.

00:27:21.694 --> 00:27:24.894
You know, we don't gain anything when we flip a blue seat.

00:27:25.034 --> 00:27:28.234
That comes down to, I think, a lot of times ego of that person running,

00:27:28.454 --> 00:27:32.314
you know, that, you know, that, you know, young, you know, really,

00:27:32.354 --> 00:27:36.014
you know, you know, Bernie Sanders progressive, you know, yeah,

00:27:36.134 --> 00:27:37.314
maybe you can flip that seat.

00:27:37.394 --> 00:27:39.974
But if you can flip that seat, go and flip a seat, we need flipped.

00:27:40.034 --> 00:27:44.634
Go and flip a seat that gets us some gain, you know, and adds to our numbers.

00:27:45.334 --> 00:27:48.514
And I do think sometimes they lose on messaging.

00:27:48.754 --> 00:27:54.554
And we really did that with defund the police. I thought that was a bridge too far.

00:27:54.994 --> 00:28:00.054
I did. I didn't think it was a good message. We need to stand up for people

00:28:00.054 --> 00:28:04.894
that can't stand up for themselves all the time, and the trans community would be one.

00:28:05.054 --> 00:28:11.614
But the Republicans sucked us down into a vortex of a rabbit hole, and we willingly went.

00:28:11.774 --> 00:28:17.534
And that became the argument over bathrooms, the argument over girls and boys

00:28:17.534 --> 00:28:22.354
sports and boys and girls sports, which many Democrats, even prominent Democrats

00:28:22.354 --> 00:28:25.854
like Gavin Newsom go, you know what? You're right. It's not fair, you know? But,

00:28:26.535 --> 00:28:30.155
And we, those are not, we need to get back to the kitchen table issues.

00:28:30.335 --> 00:28:35.215
We need to look at when people are, why was everybody talking about Zora and Mamdani?

00:28:35.535 --> 00:28:39.395
Because he was doing something incredible. AOC as well.

00:28:39.575 --> 00:28:43.795
And something both of them did, regardless of where they stand on the liberal

00:28:43.795 --> 00:28:47.655
democratic progressive spectrum, they went door to door.

00:28:48.175 --> 00:28:51.035
They, first of all, they worked their butts off, right?

00:28:51.115 --> 00:28:53.375
Her shoes are in the Smithsonian for having holes in it, right?

00:28:53.375 --> 00:28:56.215
They went door to door. And what did they say?

00:28:56.735 --> 00:29:00.855
What do you need? What's your complaint with the city and hers?

00:29:00.975 --> 00:29:02.395
What's your complaint with this district?

00:29:02.675 --> 00:29:05.775
They listened to their constituency.

00:29:06.415 --> 00:29:08.175
And Democrats need to do that.

00:29:08.895 --> 00:29:11.315
Andy Beshear is a Democrat in

00:29:11.315 --> 00:29:15.555
a deep red state, and he's governor of that state, and he's very popular.

00:29:15.735 --> 00:29:17.695
Why? Because he listens to the people.

00:29:18.255 --> 00:29:22.595
And, you know, when people talk about, oh, Mamdani is the new face of the Democratic Party, no.

00:29:22.735 --> 00:29:26.175
He's the new face of New York City and what they need at this moment in time.

00:29:26.335 --> 00:29:28.275
And that's what we need to do.

00:29:28.575 --> 00:29:31.475
We need to listen to what the people need this moment in time.

00:29:31.615 --> 00:29:32.935
And that's why Democrats right

00:29:32.935 --> 00:29:36.475
now are being successful, because Republicans lost their way on that.

00:29:36.635 --> 00:29:40.315
And we've picked up the baton and we're running with it because it does come

00:29:40.315 --> 00:29:44.195
down to the economy stupid, like James Carville said back in the early 90s,

00:29:44.315 --> 00:29:47.755
you know, in 92, when he was running Bill Clinton's campaign and,

00:29:47.835 --> 00:29:51.235
you know, Bill Clinton won, you know, easily, not just once but twice.

00:29:51.815 --> 00:29:58.435
And he and we need right now, it is the economy stupid. What are the top issues, right?

00:29:58.775 --> 00:30:02.595
Money, health care comes under the guise of money. Inflation comes under the

00:30:02.595 --> 00:30:05.455
guise of money. Housing comes under the guise of money.

00:30:05.855 --> 00:30:09.735
And then you have immigration and you have crime. And crime has consistently

00:30:09.735 --> 00:30:13.235
been dropping for the past decade. So both parties can, you know,

00:30:13.355 --> 00:30:15.675
take their victory lap on that or credit for that.

00:30:16.624 --> 00:30:21.024
And then I also think that Democrats need to show that they can and are willing

00:30:21.024 --> 00:30:22.584
to work sometimes with Republicans.

00:30:22.804 --> 00:30:25.264
This is not that time, but there have been times.

00:30:25.644 --> 00:30:27.424
Infrastructure would be an example of that.

00:30:28.104 --> 00:30:34.584
Yeah, I think we get caught in the rabbit hole thing because we try to be fair.

00:30:34.804 --> 00:30:41.384
And like you said, right now, maybe this is not the time for us to be pragmatic or...

00:30:42.398 --> 00:30:48.218
Kumbaya-ish, right? Well, like Michelle Obama, when she said,

00:30:48.338 --> 00:30:51.778
and I love her, when they go low, we go high. And I was like, yeah.

00:30:52.238 --> 00:30:56.318
But that didn't work, sadly, because half of the country got lower.

00:30:56.678 --> 00:30:59.658
Now, I'm not saying we get down to their level. I don't think that's the way to do it.

00:31:00.038 --> 00:31:04.318
I think Gavin Newsom, what he is doing, is the way to do it.

00:31:04.598 --> 00:31:06.698
Today in Davos, what is he saying?

00:31:07.158 --> 00:31:09.158
He said, they're spineless.

00:31:09.798 --> 00:31:14.678
You got to look him in the face. you got to stand your ground. You got to grow a spine.

00:31:14.938 --> 00:31:21.698
He is not being spineless. And I think that's why we've seen him risen to the top.

00:31:21.978 --> 00:31:25.038
That's why you even have some people on the right going, hey,

00:31:25.098 --> 00:31:26.598
I like some of what this guy is saying.

00:31:27.538 --> 00:31:33.178
And I do think there's a way to do that and still remain higher.

00:31:34.038 --> 00:31:38.818
Yeah. And even Michelle is kind of, If you remember that speech she gave at

00:31:38.818 --> 00:31:43.638
the convention, she's even said, well, you know, that might have been a little

00:31:43.638 --> 00:31:46.278
lofty because she went in pretty hard.

00:31:47.298 --> 00:31:52.558
Right. But she into into her credit, she I mean, look, when her husband,

00:31:52.838 --> 00:31:58.178
a black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama, got elected, you thought, OK.

00:31:59.578 --> 00:32:03.358
You know, our nation's not as racist as we thought.

00:32:03.358 --> 00:32:06.238
Our nation is not as Islamophobic as we thought.

00:32:06.378 --> 00:32:12.398
Our nation is not as, you know, a diehard conservative as we thought. Yeah, but they are.

00:32:13.158 --> 00:32:15.758
You know, and that's why we can't go as high, sadly.

00:32:16.958 --> 00:32:21.978
You've done your best on Fox News to bring civility and balance into the political discussions.

00:32:22.438 --> 00:32:26.178
Why do you think the country's civility crisis is deepening?

00:32:27.229 --> 00:32:30.729
Oh, wow. There's so much there.

00:32:31.209 --> 00:32:37.689
One would be social media because there are so many lies that people believe is truth.

00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:44.109
Leaders lead by example.

00:32:44.669 --> 00:32:48.689
And I'm not going to try and sound like puritanical poly here,

00:32:48.849 --> 00:32:54.429
but it is really hard for me to get my 18-year-old son not to drop F-bombs when

00:32:54.429 --> 00:32:59.169
our president does, our elected officials do, and that's on both sides of the aisle, okay?

00:32:59.409 --> 00:33:04.829
I love the mayor of Minneapolis, but you don't need to go there.

00:33:04.969 --> 00:33:08.729
You had a member of parliament in Davos say F Trump today.

00:33:09.029 --> 00:33:10.829
Let me speak your language, right?

00:33:12.141 --> 00:33:17.121
We pause, got to go, got to go back, got to have decorum back,

00:33:17.461 --> 00:33:20.341
got to have civility back, got to have respect back.

00:33:20.841 --> 00:33:25.461
And we're getting dragged down, you know, when, you know, we do that.

00:33:25.681 --> 00:33:31.021
And what happens is so you start with the insults of elected officials to each

00:33:31.021 --> 00:33:35.381
other and then you have insults of the president of the and then it just becomes

00:33:35.381 --> 00:33:37.021
like, look at Renee Good.

00:33:37.021 --> 00:33:41.081
Good God almighty, I hope they sue every single person who has ever uttered

00:33:41.081 --> 00:33:43.081
domestic terrorist, lunatic.

00:33:43.421 --> 00:33:49.441
The press secretary of the United States called a mother who was shot four times.

00:33:49.861 --> 00:33:53.861
Even if you feel ICE was within their right to shoot her four times,

00:33:54.061 --> 00:33:57.541
there is no reason to defame and disparage this woman.

00:33:57.981 --> 00:34:04.481
There is no reason to name the school their son goes to and to mock the teachings of that school.

00:34:05.481 --> 00:34:08.641
You know, we need a Sodom and Gomorrah moment.

00:34:09.121 --> 00:34:12.181
We really do. I don't know what that will be.

00:34:12.501 --> 00:34:16.121
You know, I had a professor years ago, my undergrad, I did Northeastern University,

00:34:16.221 --> 00:34:19.441
my graduate at Emerson, and I had a professor say in undergrad,

00:34:20.101 --> 00:34:22.141
the United States is an empire.

00:34:22.341 --> 00:34:25.121
All empires fall. The United States will fall.

00:34:25.541 --> 00:34:32.221
My prediction is it will be a war. It will be a civil war, and it will be based on race and religion.

00:34:32.481 --> 00:34:34.601
And I remember thinking, right.

00:34:36.561 --> 00:34:39.701
Maybe it isn't so wrong. I hope it doesn't happen.

00:34:40.521 --> 00:34:45.201
But if we don't have – that's why I say bipartisanship is essential.

00:34:45.201 --> 00:34:46.701
It's essential for a working government.

00:34:46.901 --> 00:34:53.641
If we don't stop with – we have to find areas where we agree.

00:34:53.641 --> 00:34:58.361
We have to find leaders that truly want to unite this country.

00:34:59.261 --> 00:35:03.581
You know, Joe Biden said and other Democrats have said, and I'm not just tooting

00:35:03.581 --> 00:35:06.501
my party's horn, but, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

00:35:06.601 --> 00:35:08.001
blah, even if you didn't vote for me.

00:35:08.441 --> 00:35:10.401
You never hear Donald Trump say that.

00:35:11.214 --> 00:35:13.714
The people that didn't vote for him, the states that didn't vote for him,

00:35:13.814 --> 00:35:15.854
hello, three times Minnesota, look what's happening there.

00:35:16.954 --> 00:35:21.754
There's retribution. And then you get those egos and people who are power hungry,

00:35:21.974 --> 00:35:25.914
like Stephen Miller and others, who are just terrified.

00:35:27.414 --> 00:35:31.854
Like I said, there's just so much there. We need a reset.

00:35:32.554 --> 00:35:37.434
And so we need people to be elected that are not afraid.

00:35:37.934 --> 00:35:42.334
On the right, there's got to be, There's a John McCain there.

00:35:42.454 --> 00:35:46.834
I don't know if he or she hasn't been elected yet. I don't know if he or she

00:35:46.834 --> 00:35:50.314
is having conversations in the bedroom with their spouse or significant other

00:35:50.314 --> 00:35:54.994
or their partner at night going, I got to say something. I can't vote for this.

00:35:55.274 --> 00:35:58.494
Interestingly, who would know that Greenland would be the line in the sand,

00:35:58.614 --> 00:36:00.574
not shooting citizens in the face in the head.

00:36:00.914 --> 00:36:05.734
But yes, we need, they need to rein him in.

00:36:06.214 --> 00:36:11.014
And they haven't done that. And Democrats are going to only be able to do it

00:36:11.014 --> 00:36:13.174
so much if they just have power within the house.

00:36:13.214 --> 00:36:15.634
And we can't just hold our breath for three more years because,

00:36:15.634 --> 00:36:19.754
I mean, there are people who are losing their lives in this chaos.

00:36:21.027 --> 00:36:26.187
So, yeah, the way we get it back is we have to lead by example.

00:36:26.407 --> 00:36:30.487
And I do think it's happening somewhat on the left.

00:36:30.887 --> 00:36:34.327
And you're seeing people say, you know what? I thought liberals were loons,

00:36:34.487 --> 00:36:36.387
but I'm talking to them and they're really not.

00:36:37.027 --> 00:36:42.747
You know, I mean, I've heard so many people. I used to go when I was a Christian. I'm no longer.

00:36:42.847 --> 00:36:45.027
But when I was a Christian back in the day and I lived in Chicago,

00:36:45.027 --> 00:36:48.987
I went to Moody Bible Church, huge church in downtown Chicago. Right.

00:36:49.427 --> 00:36:53.687
And there was a guest speaker, an African-American pastor from another state,

00:36:53.707 --> 00:36:56.727
and he said he was racist against white people.

00:36:57.287 --> 00:37:00.427
And that opening line definitely got you to go, oh, okay, I'm listening.

00:37:00.587 --> 00:37:02.067
I'm interested in what's the guy I have to say.

00:37:02.487 --> 00:37:04.147
And he talked about because he

00:37:04.147 --> 00:37:08.467
grew up not knowing or interacting with any white people where he grew up.

00:37:08.947 --> 00:37:15.327
And he was working in a factory job and he got hurt and all his black friends kind of like failed.

00:37:15.627 --> 00:37:19.067
And this one white guy who used to sit alone in the cafeteria all the time,

00:37:19.187 --> 00:37:20.427
this loner came over and helped him.

00:37:20.927 --> 00:37:24.827
And then after that, he started sitting with that guy in the cafeteria and that

00:37:24.827 --> 00:37:26.667
guy shared his sandwich and all of it.

00:37:26.687 --> 00:37:29.867
And then all of a sudden he's like, I don't hate white people anymore because I knew one.

00:37:29.987 --> 00:37:34.327
And we see this happens with, you know, you meet a Muslim, you meet a Jew,

00:37:34.587 --> 00:37:39.687
you meet a gay person, you meet a person of color, you meet a person who's white, you know.

00:37:40.499 --> 00:37:44.119
Or a woman, somebody poor, somebody rich.

00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:49.479
We're not all any one thing. We're all individuals and unique.

00:37:49.839 --> 00:37:57.019
And we need to see that. We need to get back to that, to be tolerant of differences.

00:37:57.299 --> 00:37:59.099
You see the videos online.

00:37:59.759 --> 00:38:05.359
You know what kills me too, and people can't see us, but people know you and me, our names.

00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:08.959
I'm white. You're not. You're black, right? You're African-American.

00:38:08.959 --> 00:38:10.799
So, you know what kills me?

00:38:10.899 --> 00:38:16.139
When I see an African-American woman telling a Hispanic at, like,

00:38:16.419 --> 00:38:20.559
you know, the Five and Dime or whatever, you know, Walmart or whatever,

00:38:20.619 --> 00:38:23.379
they're going to call ICE on them. And I'm like, really, girl?

00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:28.279
Seriously? You know, do they realize that white people are not going to be the

00:38:28.279 --> 00:38:30.219
majority in very few years?

00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:35.059
And if all people of color came together, it's like if Jews and Muslims and

00:38:35.059 --> 00:38:39.239
black and Hispanics and Asians and Southeast Asians all came together,

00:38:39.499 --> 00:38:43.659
do you know the power that one group would have? Not just in voting.

00:38:43.799 --> 00:38:44.759
Do you know what I'm saying? The power?

00:38:45.359 --> 00:38:49.199
That's what kills me. I see minorities. I see an Asian person yelling at a black

00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.899
person, Hispanic person yelling at an Asian. I'm like, what's going,

00:38:52.979 --> 00:38:55.379
and of course, there's plenty of white people doing it, but you know what I'm saying?

00:38:55.539 --> 00:38:59.859
I just, I don't, I don't get it. Where's such anger coming from?

00:39:00.099 --> 00:39:02.119
It's just, there's so much hate out there.

00:39:02.399 --> 00:39:05.179
I get, I don't know about you. I sometimes, I just have to get off.

00:39:05.259 --> 00:39:08.259
I can't even look. It gets so depressing. you know yeah well

00:39:08.259 --> 00:39:11.179
I I definitely understand that and you know

00:39:11.179 --> 00:39:14.059
part of the reason why I do what I do is to try

00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:19.979
to make sure that that gap is bridged and so i try not to even though i am african-american

00:39:19.979 --> 00:39:25.279
i i don't just have african-american guests and and that's the whole theme of

00:39:25.279 --> 00:39:31.439
it it's like i want to highlight people who are doing the work and so real quick

00:39:31.439 --> 00:39:33.199
because i know we're short on time but.

00:39:34.279 --> 00:39:37.799
They need a Fannie Lou Hamer in the Republican Party, not a John McCain,

00:39:38.139 --> 00:39:43.279
because if it wasn't Fannie Lou Hamer, black folks wouldn't have switched over

00:39:43.279 --> 00:39:45.459
to the Democratic Party, especially in the South.

00:39:45.939 --> 00:39:50.899
Right. So that's the kind of shift that needs to happen.

00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:54.339
But let me let me give you these last two questions and then I'll let you go.

00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:01.859
Sure. Will 2026 be a blue tsunami, a blue wave or rinse and repeat?

00:40:02.987 --> 00:40:10.707
Tsunami. Tsunami. I mean, not just the predictors, but everything leading up to it.

00:40:11.147 --> 00:40:17.167
You know, Mamdani is a democratic socialist, no apologies for it.

00:40:17.367 --> 00:40:22.927
Wants to abolish ICE, is completely, you know, is completely against,

00:40:23.107 --> 00:40:27.487
Israel completely calls outright what's happened and happening in Gaza a genocide.

00:40:27.487 --> 00:40:32.747
And then you have more moderates, like the new governors of New Jersey and the

00:40:32.747 --> 00:40:37.127
first female governor in Virginia, who are, you know, more moderate.

00:40:37.947 --> 00:40:44.687
Just the states, you know, the places we're flipping in like deep red Georgia,

00:40:44.887 --> 00:40:47.647
you know, when you're looking at state seats, too, you can't ignore those.

00:40:48.207 --> 00:40:50.787
Yeah, it's going to be a tsunami. Okay.

00:40:51.527 --> 00:40:55.287
Absolutely. Without question. Isn't it cool that a Virginian is now the first

00:40:55.287 --> 00:40:59.327
female governor of New Jersey and New Jersey and is the first female governor of Virginia?

00:40:59.667 --> 00:41:02.587
I thought that was pretty cool. Yes, yeah.

00:41:03.427 --> 00:41:10.947
Yes. And the lieutenant governor, a female person of color and Muslim. Right.

00:41:11.547 --> 00:41:14.667
All right. So, oh, by the way, the other thing I wanted to point out,

00:41:14.787 --> 00:41:16.987
I grew up in Chicago and I live in Atlanta.

00:41:17.047 --> 00:41:20.847
So I can relate to all that stuff, especially the Moody Bible Institute.

00:41:21.607 --> 00:41:25.727
Yeah, you know where it is. Takes up two city blocks. Major, major institution.

00:41:26.147 --> 00:41:29.787
A lot of people used to play basketball up there for free, but that's another story for another day.

00:41:30.767 --> 00:41:34.447
Finish this sentence. I have hope because.

00:41:36.867 --> 00:41:42.367
I have hope because of two things. One, politics, like the stock market,

00:41:42.787 --> 00:41:44.147
is my Boston accent there.

00:41:44.267 --> 00:41:47.647
I'm tripping over my mar instead of market. Yeah.

00:41:48.223 --> 00:41:52.923
Just like finances, it's cyclical. It's like a pendulum.

00:41:53.303 --> 00:41:58.303
It'll swing back. It'll come around. So the history has proven that.

00:41:58.483 --> 00:42:01.823
And I'm hopeful for that and look forward to that.

00:42:02.083 --> 00:42:07.483
And the second thing is I really do believe that for the most part, people are good.

00:42:08.303 --> 00:42:13.463
And I do believe that in the end, good prevails.

00:42:13.783 --> 00:42:17.203
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all Republicans are even all MAGA or BAT.

00:42:17.363 --> 00:42:20.043
I have friends that are Republican. I have friends that are Trump supporters.

00:42:20.443 --> 00:42:25.043
They're not wearing red hats and pulling people out of cars and applauding the

00:42:25.043 --> 00:42:28.303
killing of a woman by ICE.

00:42:29.303 --> 00:42:33.703
Everybody has their reasons for voting the way they vote. But yeah,

00:42:33.843 --> 00:42:36.963
I do believe in the good of people.

00:42:37.223 --> 00:42:42.143
And I think more and more people are seeing that what's happening in this administration

00:42:42.143 --> 00:42:48.863
and what's becoming, sadly, a complete takeover of the Republican Party is not good.

00:42:49.183 --> 00:42:53.703
Not good for the country, not good for them and their families.

00:42:53.903 --> 00:42:58.743
And when it affects you, right, how many people do we see that voted for Trump

00:42:58.743 --> 00:43:02.103
and they say, wait a minute, there are people that voted for Trump and their

00:43:02.103 --> 00:43:03.743
spouses are being deported, right?

00:43:04.203 --> 00:43:08.683
You know, because people did believe the worst of the worst.

00:43:08.823 --> 00:43:10.963
And Democrats want the worst to the worst God.

00:43:11.123 --> 00:43:14.903
I want, you know, I want pedophiles. Hello, Epstein files. I want pedophiles

00:43:14.903 --> 00:43:20.283
and rapists and murderers and violent criminals outside of our country. Absolutely.

00:43:20.703 --> 00:43:24.243
But we see with our own eyes what is and is not happening.

00:43:24.863 --> 00:43:29.823
Yeah. So, Leslie, how can people get in touch with you? How can people follow you?

00:43:30.283 --> 00:43:33.223
Just go ahead and lay that out for the folks.

00:43:33.955 --> 00:43:38.455
I don't even know. No, I mean, I think because my producer sets it all up.

00:43:38.535 --> 00:43:41.715
I sound like, you know, my kids would say, mom, you're such a boomer.

00:43:42.055 --> 00:43:45.275
They'll be like, don't ask my mother about technology. She, you know, can't handle it.

00:43:45.735 --> 00:43:49.175
On Twitter, I think I'm at Leslie Marshall. I'm on Facebook.

00:43:49.315 --> 00:43:53.275
I think on Instagram at Leslie Marshall Talker. I'm bad. I really need to like

00:43:53.275 --> 00:43:54.475
get with it with Instagram.

00:43:54.875 --> 00:43:58.795
You know, on Twitter, X now, right? On X at Leslie Marshall.

00:43:59.035 --> 00:44:04.315
On Instagram at Leslie Marshall Talker. I think at Leslie Marshall on Facebook. I'm LinkedIn. in.

00:44:04.955 --> 00:44:09.135
My website's really more like about my radio show. And then watching me on Fox,

00:44:09.175 --> 00:44:12.335
and I do post on social media when I'm going to be on, you know,

00:44:12.735 --> 00:44:15.855
depending on how much time I have, who I'm going to be on with,

00:44:15.915 --> 00:44:18.055
what we're going to be talking about, that kind of thing. Yeah.

00:44:18.495 --> 00:44:23.035
Well, Leslie Marshall, I greatly appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.

00:44:23.495 --> 00:44:26.555
Thank you for coming on the podcast. I know you've got to go,

00:44:26.755 --> 00:44:30.635
but just the time I've been able to share with you, I greatly appreciate it.

00:44:30.795 --> 00:44:35.395
And the rule is, now that you've been on the show, you have an open invitation to come back.

00:44:35.535 --> 00:44:38.015
So you don't even have to wait for me to call you. If you say,

00:44:38.155 --> 00:44:41.655
Eric, I need to talk about something, you can just come right back on.

00:44:41.995 --> 00:44:46.615
I would love to come back on, especially because I lived four years of my life

00:44:46.615 --> 00:44:50.455
in Chicago, and I consider it one of my homes, even though I didn't grow up

00:44:50.455 --> 00:44:52.935
there. I absolutely love it. I love the people.

00:44:53.115 --> 00:44:56.915
I can't stand what a bad rap that city gaps. It's a wonderful city.

00:44:57.095 --> 00:44:59.015
It's a wonderful city with wonderful people.

00:45:00.017 --> 00:45:02.837
You know, I'm a white girl who's walked on the South Side and lived to tell about it.

00:45:02.917 --> 00:45:05.877
So, I mean, I don't understand, you know, I mean, people literally think,

00:45:06.057 --> 00:45:09.937
well, you know, my sister-in-law, when she came to L.A., all she had seen about L.A.

00:45:09.977 --> 00:45:13.277
Was bad boys, bad boys, what you're going to do, right?

00:45:13.657 --> 00:45:19.037
Sorry, bad singing. But she literally thought we'd be like driving through bullets

00:45:19.037 --> 00:45:20.077
to go to the supermarket.

00:45:20.517 --> 00:45:23.697
I mean, come on, you know, people think that about the South Side, you know?

00:45:23.877 --> 00:45:27.557
Yeah, there can be. There are some bad blocks, you know, there's bad blocks in every city.

00:45:27.697 --> 00:45:30.517
But yeah, I'd love to come on. I didn't know you were from Chicago.

00:45:30.577 --> 00:45:34.937
I know you're in Hotlanta, but I really appreciate it. And I appreciate what

00:45:34.937 --> 00:45:36.557
you do too, Eric. Thank you. Thank you.

00:45:36.877 --> 00:45:39.137
All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:45:58.621 --> 00:46:04.101
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Charlie Wells.

00:46:04.701 --> 00:46:09.181
Charlie Wells is an award-winning reporter at Bloomberg News who has covered

00:46:09.181 --> 00:46:11.541
finance, tech, real estate, and culture.

00:46:11.861 --> 00:46:17.121
Before Bloomberg, he spent five years at The Wall Street Journal and then four at The Economist.

00:46:17.401 --> 00:46:21.641
He is a regular contributor to Bloomberg Television, radio, and podcast,

00:46:22.041 --> 00:46:25.841
and has moderated major conference panels and appeared on the BBC,

00:46:26.581 --> 00:46:32.321
Al Jazeera, Fox Business, and other major national and local U.S.

00:46:32.621 --> 00:46:33.541
New networks.

00:46:34.001 --> 00:46:38.281
His first book, What Happened to Millennials in Defense of a Generation,

00:46:38.921 --> 00:46:40.861
was published by Abrams Press.

00:46:41.021 --> 00:46:44.261
And we're going to be talking about that book in the interview.

00:46:44.441 --> 00:46:48.281
So ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

00:46:48.281 --> 00:46:51.721
guest on this podcast, Charlie Wells.

00:47:03.114 --> 00:47:06.634
All right. Charlie Wells, how are you doing, sir? Good. How are you?

00:47:07.214 --> 00:47:09.074
I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine.

00:47:09.974 --> 00:47:13.354
Glad that you could be on. It's really an honor to have you on.

00:47:13.774 --> 00:47:17.174
I always get a little nervous when real journalists come on because,

00:47:17.274 --> 00:47:18.914
you know, it's like, you know.

00:47:19.134 --> 00:47:21.474
What does that even mean? What does real journalists even mean?

00:47:21.574 --> 00:47:24.774
I mean, you know, people don't really know how to ask questions and do stuff.

00:47:24.974 --> 00:47:29.774
And, you know, in this book that you wrote, you know, you did a lot of interviews

00:47:29.774 --> 00:47:34.434
and that. So I just, you know, I get a little nervous, but we'll,

00:47:34.574 --> 00:47:36.494
I'll, I'll, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

00:47:36.574 --> 00:47:38.134
I'm happy to be here. I'll fight through it.

00:47:38.494 --> 00:47:44.654
All right. So I normally start the interviews off with a couple of icebreakers.

00:47:45.394 --> 00:47:49.794
So the first icebreaker is a quote. Yeah.

00:47:50.538 --> 00:47:55.698
And the quote is, you think you know, but you have no idea. What does that quote mean to you?

00:47:56.518 --> 00:48:00.058
This is really good. And you clearly have done your research,

00:48:00.318 --> 00:48:04.178
which I am very honored by. This is a quote in my book.

00:48:04.598 --> 00:48:09.658
And it is a reference to an MTV show that I think most millennials will remember,

00:48:09.778 --> 00:48:11.678
maybe people from other generations as well.

00:48:12.058 --> 00:48:17.518
It was called MTV Diary. And it was basically, it seems light and it seems fluffy,

00:48:17.518 --> 00:48:18.938
but I think there's a lot of depth to it.

00:48:18.998 --> 00:48:21.618
And that's kind of what I tried to do in this book. This is a great question, by the way.

00:48:22.298 --> 00:48:25.638
It followed celebrities around. And there was this tagline where they basically

00:48:25.638 --> 00:48:27.238
said, you think you know, but you have no idea.

00:48:28.118 --> 00:48:32.198
And that has always stuck with me. And I wrote a book about millennials.

00:48:33.058 --> 00:48:36.918
I wanted to kind of counter some narratives about them, some stereotypes,

00:48:37.378 --> 00:48:39.238
and kind of tell their history.

00:48:39.378 --> 00:48:44.418
I'm a millennial, so our history kind of through the lives of five people who lived through it.

00:48:44.418 --> 00:48:47.358
And I think, you know, whenever we're talking about a group of people,

00:48:47.878 --> 00:48:51.878
whether it's a generation, whether it's whatever grouping we're talking about,

00:48:52.138 --> 00:48:55.598
people always think they know something, but actually the people who lived through

00:48:55.598 --> 00:48:57.478
it might have a totally different story.

00:48:57.718 --> 00:49:02.538
So that's kind of what I wanted to do here. And so that show is a throwback.

00:49:02.618 --> 00:49:04.998
I think the idea is current.

00:49:05.478 --> 00:49:09.418
And I think it gets at this truth that, you know, you can really find out about

00:49:09.418 --> 00:49:12.958
what someone's life was like if you ask them their story. Okay.

00:49:13.718 --> 00:49:18.318
All right. So your next icebreaker is called 20 Questions.

00:49:19.399 --> 00:49:24.539
So I need you to, I need you to give me a number between one and 20, 13.

00:49:25.099 --> 00:49:31.039
All right. Do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?

00:49:31.579 --> 00:49:38.379
This is tricky. I do. I believe that that is the goal of a lot of news organizations.

00:49:38.919 --> 00:49:44.919
I think whether people get there or not is another matter, but I think it's

00:49:44.919 --> 00:49:48.339
important to try, right? It's really important to try to get to the truth.

00:49:49.419 --> 00:49:52.319
We're in a time where that is you know up what

00:49:52.319 --> 00:49:55.039
is the truth is up for debate we're in

00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:58.359
a time where ai makes it easier than ever for things

00:49:58.359 --> 00:50:00.979
to look real but that aren't and i

00:50:00.979 --> 00:50:04.099
think at times like this it's really important to talk to humans right

00:50:04.099 --> 00:50:08.179
we're literally talking about ai it's really important to talk to humans in

00:50:08.179 --> 00:50:13.459
reporting in life and that's something that i tried to do with this book as

00:50:13.459 --> 00:50:17.879
well right i wrote about five different people who live in very different parts

00:50:17.879 --> 00:50:22.359
of the country and think different than I do. I think maybe think different than each other.

00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:28.019
But what was so cool about it was talking to people about their stories.

00:50:28.299 --> 00:50:30.639
And I think you can get to a truth when you do that.

00:50:31.439 --> 00:50:36.659
Yeah. So the name of the book is called What Happened to Millennials in Defense

00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:40.019
of Our Generation, if I remember that correctly. You did.

00:50:40.339 --> 00:50:44.559
So what is a millennial and where do they fit in with other generations?

00:50:45.019 --> 00:50:47.559
That is a good question. You're asking a lot of good question.

00:50:47.899 --> 00:50:50.539
So we're kind of getting me into the heart of the matter.

00:50:51.359 --> 00:50:54.899
So millennials are America's largest living generation. There are 72 million

00:50:54.899 --> 00:50:58.139
of us. We were born. It's a little fuzzy and it's.

00:50:59.936 --> 00:51:03.956
But we were born in the early 80s and into the mid-90s. So people who are kind

00:51:03.956 --> 00:51:06.976
of in their early 30s now to their mid-40s.

00:51:07.056 --> 00:51:08.916
So that span of about 15 years.

00:51:09.736 --> 00:51:13.436
And we're a unique group of people. I'm a millennial. I was born kind of smack

00:51:13.436 --> 00:51:16.876
dab in the middle of this kind of peak millennial era in the late 80s.

00:51:17.796 --> 00:51:22.656
And millennials really are kind of people who remember life sort of just before

00:51:22.656 --> 00:51:25.716
the internet took over everything, right?

00:51:25.836 --> 00:51:29.656
There's a lot of like remembering kind of before and after, I think in any generation.

00:51:29.936 --> 00:51:33.816
But in this generation in particular, it's that internet introduction and kind

00:51:33.816 --> 00:51:35.876
of late 90s that really is kind of a turning point.

00:51:36.396 --> 00:51:39.036
9-11 was a really big turning point for a lot of millennials.

00:51:39.236 --> 00:51:41.176
We were kind of coming of age growing up.

00:51:41.376 --> 00:51:46.056
We remember kind of childhood before and then childhood after the Iraq war,

00:51:46.376 --> 00:51:47.796
huge one, and then the recession.

00:51:48.056 --> 00:51:51.756
So these are some of the kind of markers that kind of differentiate us as far

00:51:51.756 --> 00:51:56.316
as like when we were going through certain points in life and when these big things happened.

00:51:56.856 --> 00:52:00.856
Yeah. So most of my classmates, either high school or college,

00:52:01.216 --> 00:52:02.516
are millennial parents.

00:52:02.956 --> 00:52:06.536
I wait a little later, so I'm a Gen Z parent.

00:52:07.579 --> 00:52:16.519
So, you know, I, I, I know it was a lot of y'all born a lot of,

00:52:16.659 --> 00:52:17.759
there are millions. Yeah.

00:52:18.819 --> 00:52:22.099
What was your purpose or motivation for writing this book?

00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:28.279
Yeah, well, I am a reporter. I write about personal finance.

00:52:28.279 --> 00:52:32.039
So how people are spending their money, saving their money, investing their money.

00:52:32.199 --> 00:52:35.279
And I've been doing that for a long time. I've been doing it for about 14 years.

00:52:36.019 --> 00:52:38.779
And when I first started I was like the

00:52:38.779 --> 00:52:41.619
kid in the newsroom right and what the

00:52:41.619 --> 00:52:44.339
older people in the newsroom said was like hey kid you know

00:52:44.339 --> 00:52:47.239
write about what these crazy kids entering the workforce are

00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:50.199
doing let's do what they're they're all on you know uber and

00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:53.639
they're all on airbnb now they don't want to own homes they don't want to they're

00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:56.939
getting married really late all this stuff and so I wrote a lot about these

00:52:56.939 --> 00:53:01.279
trends a lot about kind of what my generation was doing and one of the things

00:53:01.279 --> 00:53:03.919
that I have noticed over the past few years and what kind of motivated this

00:53:03.919 --> 00:53:10.159
book was the stories that people were telling about this generation were maybe not accurate anymore,

00:53:10.759 --> 00:53:14.899
that maybe we were growing up, that maybe we were hitting some of these milestones

00:53:14.899 --> 00:53:20.219
that I think other generations thought we didn't want, or that the economy or

00:53:20.219 --> 00:53:24.699
parts of society were kind of maybe preventing or delaying from happening.

00:53:24.819 --> 00:53:28.039
And so I saw those come through, and I thought that was really cool, right?

00:53:28.059 --> 00:53:31.559
I was kind of picking up on it in my reporting, and I really wanted to write

00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:36.159
about it and kind of talk about some of these transitions some of these milestones

00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:40.699
at this generation that came through a difficult period in American history

00:53:40.699 --> 00:53:44.699
and American politics kind of grew up in a in a really big moment of change

00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:47.299
what it was like to kind of reach some of these milestones finally.

00:53:48.198 --> 00:53:53.618
You. How many millennials did you interview for the book? I think you have said

00:53:53.618 --> 00:53:55.398
five, so I think you've already answered that question.

00:53:56.118 --> 00:54:01.258
And is there one millennial you interviewed for your book whose story stayed

00:54:01.258 --> 00:54:02.578
with you more than the other?

00:54:03.158 --> 00:54:06.838
Yeah, well, so over the course of my career, I've interviewed hundreds of millennials.

00:54:07.138 --> 00:54:09.738
That's kind of what I do every day.

00:54:10.178 --> 00:54:14.858
I picked five because I wanted to kind of really go deep.

00:54:14.978 --> 00:54:17.958
And I think with this book, I'm a reporter, I talk to people,

00:54:18.178 --> 00:54:22.058
you know, I'll call strangers, right? I love talking to strangers.

00:54:22.198 --> 00:54:24.118
I think that's one of the best parts of my job. And you must know this,

00:54:24.138 --> 00:54:27.078
like we're strangers, very quickly getting to know each other.

00:54:27.378 --> 00:54:30.838
But it's fun, right? Like you get on the phone, it's like, whoa, who is that? Like, what?

00:54:31.518 --> 00:54:34.278
And then you have to really quickly build a rapport, really quickly establish

00:54:34.278 --> 00:54:38.098
something. And then it's done, right? You hang up the phone, you go, you move on.

00:54:38.358 --> 00:54:41.278
And so with this project, I really thought, all right, what

00:54:41.278 --> 00:54:44.758
if I picked just a couple people and talked

00:54:44.758 --> 00:54:47.518
to them on the phone in a really kind of like

00:54:47.518 --> 00:54:50.258
old-fashioned way for like hours and

00:54:50.258 --> 00:54:53.898
hours and hours and hours over the course of years and so I did that and it

00:54:53.898 --> 00:54:58.178
was a really interesting time because we were kind of coming out of the pandemic

00:54:58.178 --> 00:55:01.978
I think people were really self-reflective they were looking back they had had

00:55:01.978 --> 00:55:06.418
a lot of time alone I sometimes wonder like if I were doing this book again

00:55:06.418 --> 00:55:08.418
would it have turned like if I started now,

00:55:08.598 --> 00:55:12.378
I think it would be very different because I think people are busy again. People are.

00:55:14.160 --> 00:55:18.600
I wanted to talk to people whose lives had kind of intersected some of the big

00:55:18.600 --> 00:55:21.280
moments in American life over the past 25 years.

00:55:21.680 --> 00:55:26.180
Because the oldest millennial started turning 18 in 1999.

00:55:26.700 --> 00:55:29.820
Kind of depends on how you measure it, but like roughly like turn of a new millennium, right?

00:55:30.100 --> 00:55:33.500
And so I wanted to talk to people who over the course of those 25 years have

00:55:33.500 --> 00:55:37.860
kind of touched in some way some kind of intersection in American life, right?

00:55:38.020 --> 00:55:41.980
I think one person who, you know, I don't have favorites.

00:55:42.160 --> 00:55:44.940
I love all these five people. They're so fascinating. I got to,

00:55:45.040 --> 00:55:47.100
it was such an honor to get to know them and talk to them.

00:55:47.420 --> 00:55:51.340
But, you know, one of the people who really her life just intersected this kind

00:55:51.340 --> 00:55:56.580
of before after that I was talking about is a woman named Olivia and her dad died in 9-11.

00:55:57.515 --> 00:56:02.995
And so that shaped her the rest of her life, right? And it continues to.

00:56:03.575 --> 00:56:06.775
And so a lot of the things we talked about, and which was, you know,

00:56:06.875 --> 00:56:10.215
something that I think not a lot of Americans get to do, and this is why it

00:56:10.215 --> 00:56:15.535
was such an honor, is like talking about how you move on from a tragedy like that, right?

00:56:15.655 --> 00:56:19.255
Like, because I think a lot of us, like we read the news and we hear like horrible

00:56:19.255 --> 00:56:24.995
thing happened, like, you know, war, terrorist attack, people lose their homes

00:56:24.995 --> 00:56:27.415
in a flood, opioid addictions, et cetera.

00:56:27.515 --> 00:56:30.255
But then we don't think about like well what does that do when

00:56:30.255 --> 00:56:33.595
the news cameras go off right what happens when like national attention

00:56:33.595 --> 00:56:36.635
turns away from that and so it was

00:56:36.635 --> 00:56:39.695
such an honor to explore how you build a life after

00:56:39.695 --> 00:56:42.395
a tragedy like that but there are other people in

00:56:42.395 --> 00:56:45.495
the book who maybe they didn't intersect with such big moments

00:56:45.495 --> 00:56:48.475
but they intersected with trends in

00:56:48.475 --> 00:56:51.315
American society right so one of the people that I spent a

00:56:51.315 --> 00:56:54.075
lot of time talking to his name is Justin and he is a

00:56:54.075 --> 00:56:56.955
stay-at-home dad right so he his wife works in

00:56:56.955 --> 00:56:59.675
finance they live in charlotte and he takes care

00:56:59.675 --> 00:57:02.955
of the kids and he used to be a martial arts instructor like

00:57:02.955 --> 00:57:05.735
you know his day job was literally beating the crap out

00:57:05.735 --> 00:57:10.535
of people and then he kind of pivots into being a stay-at-home dad and like

00:57:10.535 --> 00:57:14.555
that transition was difficult too but it's real for a lot of people so yeah

00:57:14.555 --> 00:57:19.315
five people really opened up I think it was a unique moment in American life

00:57:19.315 --> 00:57:24.795
and it was really cool to talk to these people who live totally different lives, right?

00:57:24.995 --> 00:57:28.395
I think you must get that on your podcast, right? Where you get to talk to people

00:57:28.395 --> 00:57:33.555
with different lives, different perspectives, but yeah, but no favorites. Well, I understand.

00:57:34.578 --> 00:57:39.718
But if I had betting odds, Olivia was, I think, my second choice.

00:57:40.118 --> 00:57:43.578
I think Miju was going to be the one I thought you were going to say.

00:57:43.798 --> 00:57:50.058
But I'm not saying the name right. But at least Olivia was in my top two. So that's good.

00:57:52.718 --> 00:57:56.958
You could like any. They're all. Yeah, they're incredible stories.

00:57:57.338 --> 00:58:03.658
Based on analysis by the Tuff University Tisch College in the 2024 presidential

00:58:03.658 --> 00:58:08.298
elections, millennials overall supported Kamala Harris with 50% of the vote,

00:58:08.498 --> 00:58:12.618
but two-thirds of white millennials without a college degree, like Justin,

00:58:13.198 --> 00:58:15.918
supported Donald Trump. Why do you think that is?

00:58:16.807 --> 00:58:21.747
I mean, big picture, I think millennials remember a more optimistic time, right?

00:58:21.927 --> 00:58:25.287
I think literally there was a candidate who became president and served for

00:58:25.287 --> 00:58:29.407
two terms whose campaign slogan was hope and change.

00:58:29.707 --> 00:58:32.927
And he was targeting a certain set of young voter.

00:58:33.327 --> 00:58:36.707
And those young people are now in their 30s and 40s.

00:58:36.867 --> 00:58:43.627
So I think like big picture, millennials really remember a more optimistic time, different time.

00:58:43.927 --> 00:58:49.087
And they don't think we have to stay stuck in the kind of negativity that we see everywhere.

00:58:49.687 --> 00:58:54.507
I think on the racial differences that we see, I think it's interesting,

00:58:54.627 --> 00:58:57.147
right? Because, you know, Justin and I talked and like, he's a Democrat.

00:58:57.447 --> 00:59:01.307
And so there are people who might fit certain demographics, you know,

00:59:01.447 --> 00:59:04.067
stories that we think we know about people, but we have no idea.

00:59:04.827 --> 00:59:08.047
I think if we, you know, if we want to dig into some of these issues and some

00:59:08.047 --> 00:59:12.207
of these reasons why, you know, big picture groups like, you know,

00:59:12.447 --> 00:59:15.527
white men who do not have college degrees voted for Trump.

00:59:15.687 --> 00:59:21.127
I think that there's resentment issues. I think there are employment issues

00:59:21.127 --> 00:59:23.987
that have affected disproportionately this group.

00:59:24.187 --> 00:59:30.227
I think they see people like me, college educated guys who, you know,

00:59:30.447 --> 00:59:34.007
have jobs and it feels really unfair.

00:59:34.307 --> 00:59:38.607
And I think dealing with unemployment, I've been unemployed before, it's horrible.

00:59:38.927 --> 00:59:44.287
And you just feel like the system is stacked against you. And I think that that could be a feeling.

00:59:45.327 --> 00:59:48.947
There's also the issue of racism, which is real in the United States,

00:59:49.107 --> 00:59:52.667
and that we clearly saw in the 2024 election.

00:59:53.247 --> 00:59:59.527
And so I think it's a host of factors. But I think the important thing is talking to each other.

00:59:59.707 --> 01:00:01.927
And I think that's something that I really tried to do in this book,

01:00:02.007 --> 01:00:03.987
which is like, look, we can be totally different.

01:00:03.987 --> 01:00:07.847
But if we talk to each other, instead of going on social media,

01:00:08.167 --> 01:00:12.907
staying in these echo chambers, getting reinforced fake news about what we think

01:00:12.907 --> 01:00:16.907
other Americans are, that's not good. It's also not fun, right?

01:00:17.507 --> 01:00:23.387
It's really not fun to kind of not be challenged or to kind of think what you always thought.

01:00:23.647 --> 01:00:27.767
And I think that something with these people, with the reporting of this project,

01:00:27.847 --> 01:00:30.327
sorry, at least somebody knows, with the reporting of this project,

01:00:30.487 --> 01:00:34.907
something that really helped was talking about the past, like talking about nostalgia.

01:00:35.627 --> 01:00:38.367
Throughout this book, I think one of the things I tried to do to connect with

01:00:38.367 --> 01:00:43.347
people was talk about their first cell phone or the computer at their parents'

01:00:43.527 --> 01:00:45.507
house or something like that.

01:00:45.687 --> 01:00:49.127
And I think that this was an important learning I had from this book,

01:00:49.267 --> 01:00:54.887
which was that objects make people start talking about their stories.

01:00:55.267 --> 01:00:58.827
And like, at least now, most objects are not partisan.

01:00:59.167 --> 01:01:03.267
I think we're in a time when they can be, even, you know, genes can become a partisan issue.

01:01:03.607 --> 01:01:08.527
But if you get people thinking about another era, it reminds them of a time

01:01:08.527 --> 01:01:10.067
when we were not so divided.

01:01:10.687 --> 01:01:13.847
And that was a great joy of this project. So.

01:01:14.782 --> 01:01:20.642
You know, I kind of think, you know, Justin being a California guy probably

01:01:20.642 --> 01:01:22.662
shaped his politics a little different than,

01:01:22.922 --> 01:01:28.982
say, if we had put Justin in Aaron's story and his father getting laid off at

01:01:28.982 --> 01:01:30.122
the steel mill and all that stuff,

01:01:30.322 --> 01:01:34.422
Justin might have been one of those two-thirds that supported Trump.

01:01:34.582 --> 01:01:41.202
But the dynamics are incredible as far as just how people shape their lives and stuff.

01:01:41.302 --> 01:01:44.662
So I appreciate that answer. Since you brought up nostalgia,

01:01:44.662 --> 01:01:47.182
do you think millennials are the most nostalgic generation?

01:01:48.270 --> 01:01:52.950
You know, we get accused of that. And we got accused of that a lot kind of when,

01:01:53.130 --> 01:01:55.330
I mean, look, I'm a nostalgic person. I love history.

01:01:55.450 --> 01:01:57.770
I literally wrote a book about the past 25 years of history.

01:01:58.210 --> 01:02:02.090
So, like, maybe I'm like exhibit A of like millennials are too nostalgic.

01:02:02.990 --> 01:02:08.710
But one of the ideas that I explore in this book is nostalgia kind of hits at

01:02:08.710 --> 01:02:10.690
people at certain moments in life.

01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:14.790
And researchers are turning more attention to it. They're trying to look at,

01:02:14.850 --> 01:02:16.710
you know, some of the benefits of nostalgia.

01:02:16.710 --> 01:02:20.570
I think in the past, people thought if you were too nostalgic,

01:02:20.950 --> 01:02:25.250
you had kind of like, you know, a really negative outlook on life.

01:02:25.370 --> 01:02:26.930
But actually, nostalgia can be motivating.

01:02:27.970 --> 01:02:29.130
There's a study that shows it

01:02:29.130 --> 01:02:33.810
can literally make you feel warmer to think about, you know, the heyday.

01:02:34.350 --> 01:02:37.590
And I really like that. But it hits at these transitions, I think,

01:02:37.650 --> 01:02:40.930
when people are starting to reflect on life or starting to like maybe they're

01:02:40.930 --> 01:02:41.770
entering the workforce.

01:02:42.190 --> 01:02:45.210
And this is where like millennials really kind of entered the American consciousness

01:02:45.210 --> 01:02:47.470
of, you know, who are these people?

01:02:47.590 --> 01:02:50.490
Like, what are they doing? And, you know, we were kind of navigating that kind

01:02:50.490 --> 01:02:51.910
of post-recession life.

01:02:52.130 --> 01:02:55.030
Like the economy was really not in a good place. It was really hard to get a

01:02:55.030 --> 01:02:58.430
job. If you finally got one, it was terrible. You felt like you could lose it in a heartbeat.

01:02:58.610 --> 01:03:01.130
It's that idea of precarity, right, which we still feel today.

01:03:01.510 --> 01:03:06.050
But I think a lot of millennials kind of got nostalgic in that early point in

01:03:06.050 --> 01:03:07.890
the workforce, maybe what, a decade ago?

01:03:08.310 --> 01:03:11.890
And then you pair that with social media, which was allowing us to kind of share

01:03:11.890 --> 01:03:16.130
this stuff. It was allowing us to kind of be observed more than a lot of other

01:03:16.130 --> 01:03:19.530
generations who maybe went through that same period of nostalgia.

01:03:19.930 --> 01:03:22.410
You know, baby boomers, Gen Xers, when they got into the workforce,

01:03:22.790 --> 01:03:27.570
but they were just not observed as much. And then I think the other thing with this book is...

01:03:29.105 --> 01:03:32.445
A lot of millennials are getting to a turning point in their own life right

01:03:32.445 --> 01:03:35.345
now, which is we're approaching midlife, we're approaching our 40s.

01:03:35.405 --> 01:03:37.445
A lot of us are parents now.

01:03:37.905 --> 01:03:40.505
Some of our children have driver's licenses, which is crazy.

01:03:40.645 --> 01:03:44.705
So I think there's like a reflection now on like, what was it like when I was a kid?

01:03:44.925 --> 01:03:47.805
But I don't think millennials are the most nostalgic generation.

01:03:48.005 --> 01:03:49.505
I think everyone goes through this.

01:03:49.985 --> 01:03:54.025
It's just technology changes things. The way people see us changes things.

01:03:54.145 --> 01:03:57.805
And I think that's another big, big takeaway I wanted people to have from this book, which is,

01:03:58.445 --> 01:04:02.505
you know, we can have these narratives about generations, but actually,

01:04:02.865 --> 01:04:07.345
you know, when you're born matters a lot, but so does, you know,

01:04:07.605 --> 01:04:12.065
the history that everyone's going through in the world at a certain point.

01:04:12.245 --> 01:04:15.645
And then also just like the stage of life you're at that can kind of determine

01:04:15.645 --> 01:04:16.885
who you are and what you're like.

01:04:17.565 --> 01:04:21.645
Yeah. Now, this was a long question, so I'm going to try to shorten it,

01:04:21.745 --> 01:04:27.045
but it was based off It's based off a article that came out in March of last

01:04:27.045 --> 01:04:30.305
year called Millennials Broke the Political Binary.

01:04:30.725 --> 01:04:36.225
And it's stating that independent voters have been the largest voting bloc since

01:04:36.225 --> 01:04:39.865
2012 and the influence continues to grow.

01:04:40.145 --> 01:04:48.185
And they tie in millennials as being part of the reason why that independent bloc has grown so.

01:04:48.185 --> 01:04:53.385
And you mentioned some of the reasons when you talk about Uber for transportation,

01:04:53.845 --> 01:04:57.405
Instacart for groceries and remote work for careers and stuff.

01:04:58.025 --> 01:05:00.845
It says the mindset extends to politics.

01:05:01.605 --> 01:05:06.245
Millennials reject straight ticket voting and instead choose policies that align

01:05:06.245 --> 01:05:08.785
with their values, regardless of party affiliation.

01:05:09.085 --> 01:05:13.865
Do you think that is an accurate assessment of the generation born between the

01:05:13.865 --> 01:05:15.425
births of CNN and Foxton?

01:05:16.322 --> 01:05:19.182
Yeah, Eric, that's another really good question. And I think,

01:05:19.382 --> 01:05:23.742
yes, I think that especially, you know, this could be a life stage thing, right?

01:05:23.922 --> 01:05:28.182
Where, you know, and I think that's an important lens to view groups of people, right?

01:05:28.322 --> 01:05:31.142
We're at a point, millennials are at a point where, you know,

01:05:31.302 --> 01:05:34.162
maybe some of that youthful idealism has gone away.

01:05:34.782 --> 01:05:38.942
Maybe not in its stead, but in addition to it, wisdom has come too, right?

01:05:39.022 --> 01:05:43.362
So maybe you're not viewing everything through one lens of, I'm a Democrat or I'm a Republican.

01:05:43.362 --> 01:05:46.442
You're kind of looking at, you know, all your options are

01:05:46.442 --> 01:05:49.242
i think there is this view that we heard a

01:05:49.242 --> 01:05:52.282
lot when millennials were in their 20s which

01:05:52.282 --> 01:05:55.102
was optimization it's kind of a tech

01:05:55.102 --> 01:05:58.702
bro word it initially sounded really great i think now we're kind of living

01:05:58.702 --> 01:06:03.382
through the like not great parts of quote-unquote optimization but there's a

01:06:03.382 --> 01:06:07.382
view that like oh no i can make everything great you know or like oh i can find

01:06:07.382 --> 01:06:10.922
the kind of perfect solution to this if i balance that and i can see that like

01:06:10.922 --> 01:06:12.902
lens coming into politics right we're Like,

01:06:13.262 --> 01:06:16.222
okay, well, I, you know, I'll vote for Kamala Harris on the national level,

01:06:16.222 --> 01:06:19.462
but I like a Republican mayor because I want them to focus on like economic

01:06:19.462 --> 01:06:22.382
development in like my particular neighborhood or something like that.

01:06:22.482 --> 01:06:27.082
Like that feels very millennial. So I think you're right to identify that. Yeah. Yeah.

01:06:27.494 --> 01:06:30.774
How do you answer your own question posed in part two of the book,

01:06:31.054 --> 01:06:36.434
What Happens to the Nation Now That Our Mass Ceremony of Reading Together Has Ended?

01:06:36.954 --> 01:06:42.114
You actually read my book. And that is very, very, I really am very honored

01:06:42.114 --> 01:06:43.474
by that. I'm not going to name names.

01:06:43.594 --> 01:06:46.914
The people I talk to have not read my book. And so this is very telling.

01:06:47.734 --> 01:06:51.994
I hope your listeners know that you author said you actually do your homework.

01:06:52.314 --> 01:06:57.334
So thank you. One of the points that we know about countries.

01:06:58.054 --> 01:07:02.594
About the establishment of a modern nation state, is that reading brought us together.

01:07:03.054 --> 01:07:04.554
Reading is not just, look, I'm

01:07:04.554 --> 01:07:08.074
a journalist, I make money by having people read stuff, so check my bias.

01:07:08.214 --> 01:07:11.034
But reading is not just what your librarian wanted you to do.

01:07:11.114 --> 01:07:14.934
It brings people together to form a country, right? And one of the theories

01:07:14.934 --> 01:07:20.154
out there is that when the printing press gave rise to newspapers,

01:07:20.494 --> 01:07:24.994
gave rise to books, people could imagine themselves being a part of this big community.

01:07:25.534 --> 01:07:28.874
When people read the same things, they can imagine themselves being a part of the same country.

01:07:29.114 --> 01:07:32.754
And one of the things that we are seeing, I'm seeing statistic after statistic

01:07:32.754 --> 01:07:35.694
about how Americans aren't reading anymore, right?

01:07:36.394 --> 01:07:40.494
Or we're not reading the same things. And I think it becomes hard to see yourself

01:07:40.494 --> 01:07:46.474
as part of this greater community. So I think my concern is that this atomization

01:07:46.474 --> 01:07:50.054
of reading could have really negative consequences.

01:07:50.354 --> 01:07:54.834
I think that that's a theory that could go, you know, too far, right?

01:07:54.954 --> 01:07:59.594
Is it just reading the same things that keeps the country together? Or is it communities?

01:07:59.814 --> 01:08:01.634
Is it church groups?

01:08:01.914 --> 01:08:04.634
Is it friend groups? Is it other things?

01:08:05.294 --> 01:08:09.034
Based on the reading statistics, I really hope it's other things. Yeah.

01:08:09.574 --> 01:08:14.374
And, you know, when when I read that, I was like, you know, that's an interesting

01:08:14.374 --> 01:08:19.274
point, because, you know, since I'm older, you know, newspapers played a major,

01:08:19.454 --> 01:08:21.134
major part in my life growing up.

01:08:21.374 --> 01:08:25.774
And, you know, just the kind of thought process is like, huh,

01:08:26.094 --> 01:08:32.014
I guess I guess we were kind of connected on this ideal that.

01:08:32.724 --> 01:08:37.704
Yeah, everybody's, I grew up in Chicago, so it's like at least half of the city

01:08:37.704 --> 01:08:40.264
is reading the same newspaper I'm reading. You know what I'm saying?

01:08:40.444 --> 01:08:42.964
It's really cool. Yeah. It's really cool.

01:08:43.364 --> 01:08:46.004
I was an intern at the San Francisco Chronicle back in the day,

01:08:46.104 --> 01:08:49.144
and I just remember the feeling of like, you write the story,

01:08:49.404 --> 01:08:53.424
you feel like people all across town are going to read it, you go by the newspaper at the corner.

01:08:53.544 --> 01:08:57.364
It's just like, and it's a ceremony, right? I think it's important to remember

01:08:57.364 --> 01:09:01.284
that it was a daily thing that people did, but it's also the ceremony of like,

01:09:01.364 --> 01:09:04.864
oh, wow, I'm reading this. And, you know, as you're saying, people across the

01:09:04.864 --> 01:09:06.244
city are reading that, too. Yeah.

01:09:06.864 --> 01:09:10.704
So let's say I was running for office again, which is not going to happen.

01:09:10.944 --> 01:09:13.764
But let's say I was running for office again. And I said, Charlie,

01:09:13.984 --> 01:09:17.704
what issues should I focus on to attract a millennial vote?

01:09:18.681 --> 01:09:24.101
Wow. Okay. So I'm not a political consultant, but what I would say,

01:09:24.341 --> 01:09:26.241
and you probably don't want to pay for this advice.

01:09:27.101 --> 01:09:29.561
So the big thing we're hearing this year, right, is about affordability,

01:09:29.561 --> 01:09:33.901
where the question is, you know, how do you get it so people can afford houses?

01:09:33.901 --> 01:09:37.661
How do you get it so people can afford their daily necessities?

01:09:37.741 --> 01:09:39.321
And I think that's a big driver right now.

01:09:39.941 --> 01:09:44.481
But I think something that we see with millennials is that they like authenticity.

01:09:44.481 --> 01:09:47.461
They like feeling like they know someone

01:09:47.461 --> 01:09:50.181
they like talking to they like viewing people who appear on

01:09:50.181 --> 01:09:52.921
podcasts they like they kind of like warts and

01:09:52.921 --> 01:09:55.941
all right and i think this ties back to this book project i

01:09:55.941 --> 01:09:59.201
worked on where you know i'm a reporter i want

01:09:59.201 --> 01:10:01.941
to report the truth i think one of my concerns is that

01:10:01.941 --> 01:10:05.061
you know these these five people opened up

01:10:05.061 --> 01:10:08.281
about the good things in their life but also the bad things and as

01:10:08.281 --> 01:10:10.881
a reporter you're always worried like are they going to

01:10:10.881 --> 01:10:13.581
be upset like when the bad stuff's in there

01:10:13.581 --> 01:10:17.241
too and like they were fine with it and like i think that's something like millennials

01:10:17.241 --> 01:10:20.381
are used to like things not being perfect it's been kind of a struggle it's

01:10:20.381 --> 01:10:25.061
been a little bit messy so if i were advising you theoretical hypothetical only

01:10:25.061 --> 01:10:28.801
for this podcast candidate would be like just be yourself like people like that

01:10:28.801 --> 01:10:32.981
i think this strive for perfection i think can kind of set people off.

01:10:33.832 --> 01:10:37.432
And I think if you're thinking about the 2024, right, like Colin Harris,

01:10:37.632 --> 01:10:39.172
like she was so polished.

01:10:39.432 --> 01:10:42.132
Right. And I think there was this desire from a lot of voters like,

01:10:42.372 --> 01:10:44.072
let's just I just want to get to know you.

01:10:44.232 --> 01:10:48.012
Like, who are you? Like, talk to me, you know, so that would be that.

01:10:48.112 --> 01:10:49.932
I think that would be my point. Millennials like authenticity.

01:10:50.672 --> 01:10:53.632
So you're saying she should have dropped the MF bomb in the debate.

01:10:53.912 --> 01:10:55.572
Is that what you're saying? Maybe.

01:10:58.492 --> 01:10:58.812
Maybe.

01:11:00.832 --> 01:11:05.032
Besides politics, how are millennials shaping culture? you

01:11:05.032 --> 01:11:08.572
know i think that they are bringing a

01:11:08.572 --> 01:11:12.152
sense of i would

01:11:12.152 --> 01:11:14.992
say of nostalgia to it i think there are

01:11:14.992 --> 01:11:19.932
so many reboots right now i think there are so many the backstreet boys are

01:11:19.932 --> 01:11:25.272
back in concert like it's just i think we're at that moment that a lot of other

01:11:25.272 --> 01:11:29.512
generations had baby boomers especially like when the it was kind of in like

01:11:29.512 --> 01:11:32.632
the late 70s early 80s when like the 50s came back Right.

01:11:32.732 --> 01:11:37.852
Like Greece was all the rage because boomers are kind of reflecting on their

01:11:37.852 --> 01:11:43.592
own teen years. I think get ready for a lot of late 90s nostalgia.

01:11:43.652 --> 01:11:45.452
I, for one, am thrilled about it.

01:11:45.672 --> 01:11:48.252
Eric, I don't know about you. You might find that stuff really annoying,

01:11:48.512 --> 01:11:52.792
but I'm telling you to brace yourself now because marketers also know this. Right.

01:11:52.892 --> 01:11:55.972
So millennials are shaping culture. But also, this is such a big group of people.

01:11:56.472 --> 01:11:59.012
These marketers know like, all right, well, they've got disposable income.

01:11:59.032 --> 01:12:01.752
They're hitting their peak earning years.

01:12:02.412 --> 01:12:05.452
Let's bring back the Backstreet Boys. Backstreet's back again.

01:12:05.812 --> 01:12:07.732
That's exactly right. All right.

01:12:08.172 --> 01:12:11.772
I'm going to try to get in a couple more questions. Should your book be placed

01:12:11.772 --> 01:12:14.432
in a time cap? You know...

01:12:15.512 --> 01:12:21.572
Maybe. I think I like it. I hope the aliens who come in 300 years when AI is

01:12:21.572 --> 01:12:25.992
running the planet will take a look at it and get some human stories.

01:12:26.652 --> 01:12:30.772
It's very much of the moment now, for better or for worse.

01:12:30.932 --> 01:12:35.332
It's about the past 25 years. I think something that I didn't want to do was

01:12:35.332 --> 01:12:40.272
have a definitive take on every single millennial ever for the rest of time.

01:12:40.472 --> 01:12:41.992
And like some critics didn't like that.

01:12:42.332 --> 01:12:46.132
And what I would say to those critics is we're a work in progress.

01:12:46.552 --> 01:12:49.792
It's OK to take stock right now, reflect on what's happened,

01:12:49.792 --> 01:12:51.552
and we will figure out what else is coming.

01:12:51.872 --> 01:12:56.032
And I think that we're talking about truth and journalism, truth and reporting. I think that's honest.

01:12:56.592 --> 01:13:00.172
All right. So this is a question that I'm asking every guest this year.

01:13:00.732 --> 01:13:04.072
Finish this sentence. I have hope because...

01:13:05.637 --> 01:13:09.417
I have hope because people like to talk to each other. And I think if you go

01:13:09.417 --> 01:13:14.097
to a cafe, if you go to a bar, if you're on a bus, if you are somewhere where

01:13:14.097 --> 01:13:17.057
there are groups of people, people start talking.

01:13:17.317 --> 01:13:19.497
And I think that's something that's so important.

01:13:19.817 --> 01:13:25.437
We can be in our own little bubbles where we drive to the grocery store,

01:13:25.737 --> 01:13:28.997
we get our things, we check out without even talking to the attendant because

01:13:28.997 --> 01:13:32.137
it's like an automated thing. And then we go back and then work from our computers.

01:13:33.017 --> 01:13:37.857
Unplugged from that. You will reap benefits if you have these conversations with people.

01:13:38.137 --> 01:13:42.957
If it's political, if it's economic, or if it's just feeling like you're connecting

01:13:42.957 --> 01:13:46.957
with another human, I'm telling you, as someone who spent hundreds of hours

01:13:46.957 --> 01:13:50.837
doing just that, you'll feel a lot better if you do it, even just a little bit.

01:13:50.937 --> 01:13:54.217
So I have hope because people just like to talk to each other.

01:13:54.797 --> 01:13:57.597
All right. Well, Charlie Wells, where can people get this book?

01:13:57.697 --> 01:14:01.177
What happened to millennials in defense of our generation? And how can people

01:14:01.177 --> 01:14:05.997
reach out to you if they want to talk to you about this subject or,

01:14:06.497 --> 01:14:08.797
you know, stuff going on in the world of finance?

01:14:09.497 --> 01:14:11.977
Yeah. So basically, this is a very millennial answer, but you can just Google

01:14:11.977 --> 01:14:14.437
Charlie Wells, what happened to millennials. You can find the book.

01:14:14.557 --> 01:14:17.297
It'll pop up. You can find my LinkedIn. I'm on there.

01:14:17.777 --> 01:14:20.037
And I'm happy to talk. But Erik, I was really happy to talk to you.

01:14:20.117 --> 01:14:21.637
Thank you for having me for such a great conversation.

01:14:21.997 --> 01:14:25.717
Well, Charlie, thank you so much for coming on. And I'm honored that you took

01:14:25.717 --> 01:14:27.417
the time, and I greatly appreciate it.

01:14:27.957 --> 01:14:30.957
Thank you for having me. All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:14:50.748 --> 01:14:54.828
And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Dr.

01:14:54.988 --> 01:14:59.268
Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo. Dr.

01:14:59.708 --> 01:15:05.108
Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo is the founder of the Olu Institute of Learning

01:15:05.108 --> 01:15:09.548
Incorporated and is a public lecturer for the Florida Humanities Council.

01:15:09.908 --> 01:15:16.828
His work focuses on the African-American experience, particularly in the Southern United States.

01:15:17.708 --> 01:15:22.508
Dr. Adejumo holds a PhD in political science from the University of Florida,

01:15:22.848 --> 01:15:25.608
specializing in policy and administration.

01:15:26.008 --> 01:15:31.088
The Return of Black Nationalism and the Death of White Supremacy is his first

01:15:31.088 --> 01:15:36.268
book, and we're going to be going into that book as well as some other topics.

01:15:36.468 --> 01:15:40.268
So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

01:15:40.268 --> 01:15:42.808
guest on this podcast, Dr.

01:15:42.968 --> 01:15:47.268
Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo. Music.

01:15:57.364 --> 01:16:02.704
All right. Dr. Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo.

01:16:03.124 --> 01:16:05.524
How did I do? Did I do good? Perfect.

01:16:06.104 --> 01:16:07.944
How you doing, sir? You doing all right?

01:16:08.764 --> 01:16:12.984
Yeah, I'm doing well. I can't complain. I'm rested up and ready to go.

01:16:13.484 --> 01:16:18.304
Well, I don't know where you are, but I'm in Atlanta and it's like,

01:16:18.304 --> 01:16:22.864
you know, people are going crazy about this ice storm that's getting ready to come.

01:16:23.724 --> 01:16:26.704
I'm from Chicago. So it's just like, it's just winter to me,

01:16:26.824 --> 01:16:29.684
but here in the South, they get a little crazy.

01:16:30.584 --> 01:16:34.004
Yeah. I'm in, um, I'm in Orlando. So, you know, we, we're not feeling none of

01:16:34.004 --> 01:16:36.624
that, but I used to live in, I used to live in Atlanta.

01:16:37.004 --> 01:16:45.744
So I, I do know when I was up there in 2009, there was something similar coming through.

01:16:45.884 --> 01:16:49.144
And I remember everybody was going crazy over that.

01:16:49.404 --> 01:16:53.404
So yeah, they don't like snow down here. They don't like snow.

01:16:54.384 --> 01:17:00.224
Right. All right. So I usually start off my interviews with a couple of icebreakers.

01:17:00.644 --> 01:17:04.324
So the first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.

01:17:05.204 --> 01:17:10.664
The quote is, when I dare to be powerful, to use my strength in the service

01:17:10.664 --> 01:17:17.064
of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid. What does it mean?

01:17:18.394 --> 01:17:23.234
It means a lot to me because, you know, just even the first couple of words,

01:17:23.474 --> 01:17:25.594
when I dare to be powerful,

01:17:25.974 --> 01:17:33.494
you know, because we've been taught in society and especially African-Americans

01:17:33.494 --> 01:17:39.834
that you dare not to, you know, that that's something that you don't do.

01:17:39.834 --> 01:17:47.314
First of all, is even take a dare, you know, that you just go about life on

01:17:47.314 --> 01:17:51.974
the, you know, the whole rigmarole of life the same and not take risk.

01:17:52.254 --> 01:17:55.954
So when you take risks, that's, that's essentially a dare.

01:17:56.374 --> 01:18:02.814
And so taking a risk to do something better than what you were the day before,

01:18:03.174 --> 01:18:11.054
to obtain something that you never had, that in itself is a type of power.

01:18:11.594 --> 01:18:20.894
And so when you dare to be powerful, that in itself is, that's a power move.

01:18:21.114 --> 01:18:26.594
And then people try to prevent you because they see what you're trying to do.

01:18:26.774 --> 01:18:31.994
So not only people, but the system when they see that. So, you know,

01:18:32.134 --> 01:18:34.594
it just furthers emboldening you.

01:18:34.834 --> 01:18:40.154
And so I can relate that in my own life, you know, taking several risks,

01:18:40.334 --> 01:18:42.194
some calculated, some not calculated.

01:18:42.554 --> 01:18:47.914
But in the end, even with writing this book, it all worked out and coming out

01:18:47.914 --> 01:18:51.954
better on the other side of doing it. You know, obviously, when you're in it

01:18:51.954 --> 01:18:56.534
and you're going through the process, it's, you know, it's challenging.

01:18:56.854 --> 01:19:02.034
But once you make it out on the other side, then it emboldens you and it makes

01:19:02.034 --> 01:19:03.534
you better as a as a person.

01:19:04.554 --> 01:19:09.054
All right. And so now the next icebreaker is what we call 20 questions.

01:19:09.734 --> 01:19:13.274
OK, I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

01:19:14.298 --> 01:19:17.738
Let's go, let's go 13. All right.

01:19:18.098 --> 01:19:23.178
Do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?

01:19:23.938 --> 01:19:26.878
Hmm. A such thing as unbiased news.

01:19:27.578 --> 01:19:31.618
I don't think, I don't believe there is a such thing as unbiased news because

01:19:31.618 --> 01:19:40.438
news is often, news is created from someone and every, everybody has some type of biases.

01:19:41.198 --> 01:19:46.138
Slight or whether it's slight or great. Everyone has some type of bias.

01:19:46.398 --> 01:19:49.678
You know, that's just the human mind in the way we view things.

01:19:49.778 --> 01:19:54.978
And that's what makes us human. So I don't think there is anything that I don't

01:19:54.978 --> 01:19:57.858
I don't believe in unbiased news. Yeah.

01:19:58.738 --> 01:20:03.598
All right. So I'm going to pick your brain some more before we get into the

01:20:03.598 --> 01:20:08.418
book, The Rise of Black Nationalism, because I think you you're a good person

01:20:08.418 --> 01:20:09.838
to ask these kind of questions.

01:20:10.258 --> 01:20:17.218
All right. So the first one is in the context of this being the 250th anniversary

01:20:17.218 --> 01:20:22.838
of the United States of America, who got to dream out loud and who got written

01:20:22.838 --> 01:20:24.558
out once the dream took shape?

01:20:25.358 --> 01:20:27.838
Who got to dream out loud?

01:20:29.978 --> 01:20:36.178
That's really something. Who got to dream out loud? I believe...

01:20:37.812 --> 01:20:44.532
Who got to dream out? I believe Frederick Douglass got to dream out loud,

01:20:45.172 --> 01:20:51.952
but I believe Martin Delaney was written out of history, out of the narrative,

01:20:52.172 --> 01:20:56.672
out of, you know, even though they both coexisted at the same time,

01:20:56.672 --> 01:20:59.472
they were contemporaries to a certain degree.

01:21:00.232 --> 01:21:02.192
But, you know, Frederick was

01:21:02.192 --> 01:21:08.292
more so kind of work within the system versus Martin Delaney was about,

01:21:08.652 --> 01:21:16.032
he was, I would say, the first Black nationalist within the context of modern Black nationalism.

01:21:16.972 --> 01:21:21.632
But he's not taught in the history books. Frederick Douglass is taught in the history books.

01:21:22.452 --> 01:21:33.072
So with respect to Black people becoming free from chains, Frederick Douglass dreamed that out loud.

01:21:34.220 --> 01:21:40.060
And Martin Delaney also dreamed that as well, but he was written out of the

01:21:40.060 --> 01:21:47.660
narrative because of the route in which he wanted to go about it,

01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:51.180
which was more so a Black nationalist route.

01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:58.160
Do you see any correlation in the murders of George Floyd and Renee Good in

01:21:58.160 --> 01:22:03.200
Minneapolis and the 1996 murder of TyRon Lewis in St. Petersburg?

01:22:05.580 --> 01:22:13.760
Definitely between George Floyd and TyRon Lewis, the circumstances between those

01:22:13.760 --> 01:22:19.800
two, there's definitely correlation due to race and gender,

01:22:20.380 --> 01:22:26.940
both black males being perceived as threats and had to be stopped in their tracks.

01:22:26.940 --> 01:22:33.080
I believe the murder of Renee Goode obviously wasn't racial.

01:22:33.580 --> 01:22:40.840
It was terrible, obviously, but I believe it was an overreach in power by the ICE agents.

01:22:41.040 --> 01:22:45.440
And I guess you could make some correlation there as far as overreach as far

01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:51.340
as the police in George Floyd and Tyrone Lewis. But that's always the case when

01:22:51.340 --> 01:22:55.400
it comes to black men and law enforcement.

01:22:55.660 --> 01:22:59.440
That's always the case, you know, versus in the Renee Goods situation.

01:23:00.723 --> 01:23:07.243
She was in a situation and ICE agents, you know, they were in a situation and

01:23:07.243 --> 01:23:09.723
it was just basically a bang, bang type of deal.

01:23:10.303 --> 01:23:17.363
And I think those circumstances afterwards, much different, much different,

01:23:17.523 --> 01:23:21.643
much different than, than George Floyd and TyRon Lewis.

01:23:21.943 --> 01:23:26.283
So, so again, so it's just to circle back to the point, TyRon Lewis and,

01:23:26.403 --> 01:23:30.143
and George Floyd, yes, the correlation is perfectly aligned.

01:23:30.503 --> 01:23:35.583
Renee Good, it's a little bit more complicated, but all three instances,

01:23:35.863 --> 01:23:43.763
overreach of power, but race was the deciding factor, race and gender in the

01:23:43.763 --> 01:23:47.483
George Floyd and TyRon Lewis.

01:23:47.863 --> 01:23:51.063
How about the community reaction?

01:23:51.483 --> 01:23:59.143
Do you feel that it's Is that similar or even with Rene, it's a little different?

01:23:59.563 --> 01:24:06.743
I believe Rene's reaction. I mean, obviously, George Floyd was, you know, a global.

01:24:07.023 --> 01:24:10.363
I mean, TyRon Lewis was more so local reaction.

01:24:10.803 --> 01:24:16.483
I mean, yes, there were riots in the area. And you had the, you know,

01:24:16.543 --> 01:24:19.303
the Uhuru movement who mobilized that.

01:24:19.303 --> 01:24:26.683
George Floyd, obviously, there was worldwide reaction, global reaction in the immediate aftermath.

01:24:27.723 --> 01:24:30.683
And then not only that, there was reaction with respect to policy.

01:24:31.907 --> 01:24:37.687
Rather directly or indirectly. I mean, we're talking about to the point of social

01:24:37.687 --> 01:24:45.447
conservative commentators, their reaction to George Floyd was to talk about DEI and get rid of DEI.

01:24:45.627 --> 01:24:51.447
And then that's when you start seeing all this legislation to remove DEI after the George Floyd.

01:24:51.727 --> 01:24:55.987
So you see Trump do what he did. And then Joe Biden came in,

01:24:56.567 --> 01:25:00.907
tried to reverse some of Trump's anti-DEI legislation.

01:25:01.127 --> 01:25:05.587
Then Trump got back in and reinstated it.

01:25:05.687 --> 01:25:13.827
And that's still reverberation from George Floyd, the whole stop the woke campaign

01:25:13.827 --> 01:25:17.487
from DeSantis in Florida, where I'm at.

01:25:17.747 --> 01:25:19.987
All of that is reaction to George Floyd.

01:25:20.387 --> 01:25:28.547
Renee Good, I don't believe the reaction as far as policy-wise Yes.

01:25:29.756 --> 01:25:36.416
It's going to be as fervent as the George Floyd.

01:25:36.636 --> 01:25:39.836
Because the thing about it is white supremacy, they always have to,

01:25:39.956 --> 01:25:45.056
in the system of white supremacy, you're going to have white people themselves

01:25:45.056 --> 01:25:49.796
that are going to be sacrificed and for the greater good of the system to continue.

01:25:50.096 --> 01:25:55.656
And in this case, Renee Good, obviously white woman at that,

01:25:56.456 --> 01:26:00.596
in a greater scheme of things, as far as the reaction, I don't believe there's

01:26:00.596 --> 01:26:04.216
going to be policy reaction by government.

01:26:04.216 --> 01:26:08.956
In fact, you see the Trump administration actually reinforcing,

01:26:09.436 --> 01:26:14.476
you know, putting out directives that ICE agents can go into a house without

01:26:14.476 --> 01:26:16.616
a warrant and all these different things.

01:26:16.816 --> 01:26:21.336
So, you know, I think that's as far as that is going to go.

01:26:21.856 --> 01:26:28.036
Yeah. So. I got you. All right. So what is your definition of black nationalism?

01:26:28.296 --> 01:26:36.956
Because in the book you cite several scholars, but what exactly is your definition of it?

01:26:37.876 --> 01:26:43.596
My definition of it, first off, is love.

01:26:43.976 --> 01:26:48.416
It's Black people loving themselves enough

01:26:48.416 --> 01:26:59.496
to come together as a group in identity and identify and be able to create institutions

01:26:59.496 --> 01:27:05.596
within their own vicinity and have and basically reclaiming power.

01:27:05.596 --> 01:27:10.116
You know, so that's what I believe black nationalism is at its base level.

01:27:10.136 --> 01:27:12.256
It's not about hating white people.

01:27:12.456 --> 01:27:15.216
It's not about hating white supremacy.

01:27:15.516 --> 01:27:22.736
It's about conquering the circumstances in our own vicinity to the point where

01:27:22.736 --> 01:27:27.896
we're not reliant on the system and our oppressors.

01:27:27.896 --> 01:27:35.356
So that's what black nationalism is to me at its core, at its core base level.

01:27:36.116 --> 01:27:41.996
Explain the difference between pan-Africanism and African internationalism.

01:27:42.156 --> 01:27:44.656
Because I'm of a certain generation.

01:27:45.256 --> 01:27:51.276
And so pan-Africanism was kind of the word that when I was, especially when

01:27:51.276 --> 01:27:53.816
I was in college, that was what we were talking about.

01:27:53.976 --> 01:27:58.476
But you make a clear distinction. So explain to the listeners what that distinction is.

01:27:59.156 --> 01:28:07.756
Right. So Pan-Africanism, obviously, is about black people cooperating worldwide

01:28:07.756 --> 01:28:13.396
for the system, right, to to conquer the system of white supremacy.

01:28:13.396 --> 01:28:21.176
And so that's very important as far as, you know, relating to certain things,

01:28:21.216 --> 01:28:26.656
because you see certain things in the in the social media sphere regarding pan-Africanism.

01:28:27.096 --> 01:28:30.336
You know, certain people have this different these things, you know,

01:28:30.436 --> 01:28:33.876
especially here in the United States, you know, you see this division.

01:28:34.743 --> 01:28:39.023
Between, you know, people turn themselves as FBA versus, you know,

01:28:39.163 --> 01:28:40.283
foreign black or whatnot.

01:28:40.563 --> 01:28:44.403
And pan-Africanism is, you know, they term it as pan-Africanism,

01:28:44.903 --> 01:28:47.823
helping more foreign black people than our own people.

01:28:47.923 --> 01:28:51.623
And I don't, I reject that notion of pan-Africanism.

01:28:51.623 --> 01:28:58.403
I believe Pan-Africanism is about working in concert,

01:28:58.403 --> 01:29:04.983
we as African-Americans, working in concert with Black people worldwide to conquer

01:29:04.983 --> 01:29:07.643
our oppression together.

01:29:07.643 --> 01:29:12.883
So, for example, you see with Asian immigrants, when they come to this country.

01:29:13.643 --> 01:29:18.703
You know, they coordinate back home with with, you know, factories back home

01:29:18.703 --> 01:29:25.763
or whatnot, you know, to deliver product here to the United States and sell them at a cost.

01:29:25.763 --> 01:29:28.583
You know, you see this in the hair industry.

01:29:28.843 --> 01:29:34.023
And so I believe that Pan-Africanism is having that type of cooperation.

01:29:34.243 --> 01:29:39.543
Obviously, there's government systems in place to prevent that.

01:29:39.803 --> 01:29:44.523
But nevertheless, you know, you do see some Pan-Africanism going on,

01:29:44.623 --> 01:29:50.343
like with the Caribbean nations corresponding with African nations.

01:29:50.343 --> 01:29:59.563
You saw that with the disaster in Jamaica, how African nations were sending some help to Jamaica.

01:29:59.843 --> 01:30:05.943
You saw that with Haiti and what they were going through, although one can also

01:30:05.943 --> 01:30:08.183
make an argument that I was directed by colonialism.

01:30:08.183 --> 01:30:13.703
But anyway, Pan-Africanism is just Black people worldwide, Black nations worldwide,

01:30:14.323 --> 01:30:17.363
working together in concert to defeat the system.

01:30:17.643 --> 01:30:23.983
Now, when we talk about African internationalism, I'm going to give you the base definition.

01:30:25.203 --> 01:30:30.803
I'm going to give you the base definition, right? So it's more so about,

01:30:31.710 --> 01:30:34.530
about, you know, capital,

01:30:34.730 --> 01:30:39.390
it's more so an attack on capitalism and that,

01:30:39.390 --> 01:30:46.670
and that the best way for is black people to work in concert together more so

01:30:46.670 --> 01:30:50.210
from a social standpoint, socialist standpoint,

01:30:51.530 --> 01:30:59.350
but, but, but also to, to overcome the, the, the, the, the, the,

01:30:59.350 --> 01:31:03.110
the struggle from as a global liberation.

01:31:03.470 --> 01:31:07.710
So, and that was more so born from the African people socialist party.

01:31:08.230 --> 01:31:11.590
And again, it's more so an attack on capitalism.

01:31:12.310 --> 01:31:18.590
And I differ And also to another difference Between the two is that Is that.

01:31:20.990 --> 01:31:25.170
African internationalism Is more so focusing on the working class Of black people,

01:31:26.228 --> 01:31:32.748
Versus Pan-Africanism is not necessarily just about the working class,

01:31:32.888 --> 01:31:36.868
but it's also about everybody working together, you know, African leaders and whatnot.

01:31:37.228 --> 01:31:43.048
So that's really the difference is that African internationalism is more so

01:31:43.048 --> 01:31:51.968
about the Black grassroots working together in unity and attacking capitalism.

01:31:51.968 --> 01:31:57.648
And so I make a big distinct difference in that versus Pan-Africanism is more

01:31:57.648 --> 01:32:03.748
so using capitalism, you know, as a tool to overcome our oppression.

01:32:04.168 --> 01:32:09.948
So, OK, was January 6th, 2021, the signal of the end of white nationalism?

01:32:11.028 --> 01:32:17.928
No, it was a reaction. It was a reaction, but not the end.

01:32:18.168 --> 01:32:25.188
Definitely not the end, because in order for there to be an end to that,

01:32:25.468 --> 01:32:29.728
you have to have, you have to have, how can I say this?

01:32:29.728 --> 01:32:36.948
You have to have a very strong opposition, you know, to the point of organized opposition.

01:32:37.468 --> 01:32:45.088
And I don't believe we in this in this point, whether it was January the 6th,

01:32:45.168 --> 01:32:48.888
2021, or whether it is now in 2026.

01:32:48.888 --> 01:32:54.248
I don't believe there's, I don't believe there's, there's, there's structured

01:32:54.248 --> 01:32:59.648
opposition and organization to white supremacy.

01:33:00.408 --> 01:33:06.468
You know, we talk about it, but the organization isn't there as a cohesiveness.

01:33:06.748 --> 01:33:11.028
And whether it's by black people or other non-black people, in fact,

01:33:11.168 --> 01:33:16.108
I believe, I believe, I believe white supremacy is, is, is more strengthened

01:33:16.108 --> 01:33:19.488
than ever. I mean, it's not just about Donald Trump.

01:33:19.708 --> 01:33:22.288
It's more so about the...

01:33:23.878 --> 01:33:30.298
The cult that he's built, you know, not just he, but social conservatives in

01:33:30.298 --> 01:33:37.798
general, the code that they stick to, I don't foresee that code, you know, breaking.

01:33:38.078 --> 01:33:41.098
And, you know, and obviously you've had different things along the way.

01:33:41.298 --> 01:33:44.398
Obviously you had the Charlie Kirk murder and that type of thing.

01:33:44.518 --> 01:33:47.058
And some people say, oh, yeah, that's the signal of the downfall.

01:33:47.158 --> 01:33:50.178
No, it's actually it's strengthening.

01:33:50.178 --> 01:33:55.138
And again, I say that because we, especially as African-Americans,

01:33:55.558 --> 01:34:03.058
have not put together strong systems to oppose what's going on.

01:34:03.058 --> 01:34:07.098
And if you look at what's going on in different states at different local levels

01:34:07.098 --> 01:34:09.178
of government, state governments,

01:34:09.458 --> 01:34:13.638
you know, again, referring back to in Florida, the different things that they're

01:34:13.638 --> 01:34:17.418
doing as far as the anti-DEI legislation and,

01:34:17.658 --> 01:34:23.738
you know, not even just DEI, but just outright getting rid of anything that

01:34:23.738 --> 01:34:29.058
is not of European roots.

01:34:29.058 --> 01:34:33.078
You know, you know, just those different type of things, again,

01:34:33.118 --> 01:34:35.458
is why I believe it's actually strengthening.

01:34:35.978 --> 01:34:41.318
And we're just we're not doing the work as far as on the ground level to really

01:34:41.318 --> 01:34:44.938
organize and operationalize opposition.

01:34:45.598 --> 01:34:50.678
Yeah, because in the book, you know, you kind of, to summarize what you said,

01:34:50.978 --> 01:34:53.398
you felt it was more of a flex.

01:34:53.958 --> 01:34:58.858
See, I guess maybe I'm too optimistic. I kind of, instead of a flex,

01:34:59.018 --> 01:35:01.058
I looked at it as like a reflex, right?

01:35:01.178 --> 01:35:06.838
Because when you're about to die, you know, the body still tries to fight that.

01:35:07.878 --> 01:35:12.438
You might have a moment where you aspirate, where you're still trying to get air.

01:35:12.678 --> 01:35:17.338
You might, you know, your pulse will come back or your limbs might move or whatever

01:35:17.338 --> 01:35:19.378
involuntarily, but you're fighting it.

01:35:19.858 --> 01:35:21.678
Right. But you're eventually going to die.

01:35:22.418 --> 01:35:23.938
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.

01:35:25.049 --> 01:35:29.469
That's where I was kind of looking at it. But but your argument is very strong

01:35:29.469 --> 01:35:34.749
because of the fact that even if it is dying, there's nothing really coordinated

01:35:34.749 --> 01:35:37.749
to make sure that it's dead.

01:35:38.349 --> 01:35:42.529
Right. Right. We're not we're not landing the final blow.

01:35:42.529 --> 01:35:46.309
So that's the problem is that, you know, we have these reactions,

01:35:46.309 --> 01:35:51.629
we have these tremors, you know, in all types of phases, you know,

01:35:51.729 --> 01:35:54.149
whether we're talking about politically, whether we're talking about economically.

01:35:54.149 --> 01:35:59.809
You know, you saw with all these tariffs and, you know, and how that how that

01:35:59.809 --> 01:36:01.789
with the market messed with the market.

01:36:02.089 --> 01:36:07.009
And then what Trump talking about with Greenland and taking over Greenland,

01:36:07.129 --> 01:36:13.469
you know, yeah, it's a it's it definitely could be seen as a last gasp for relevance.

01:36:13.469 --> 01:36:20.669
But again, he is just I think we're so focused on him and his shenanigans and

01:36:20.669 --> 01:36:24.529
not really paying attention to the overall system,

01:36:24.749 --> 01:36:28.589
you know, because just as the market was faltering, it recovered, you know.

01:36:28.589 --> 01:36:38.169
And again, we as African-Americans are not, do not have a really organized group,

01:36:38.569 --> 01:36:43.689
not just group, but just system in place to really land the final blows that's

01:36:43.689 --> 01:36:50.429
needed in order to basically kill this system and get some equity,

01:36:50.729 --> 01:36:56.029
not some equity, to get equity and what's due to us. So that's what we really need.

01:36:57.457 --> 01:37:02.297
Malcolm X said, the reason for this is the only way you can become politically

01:37:02.297 --> 01:37:07.557
independent of the white political machine is to have the support of the black masses.

01:37:08.017 --> 01:37:14.277
The only way you can get the support of the black masses is to say how they think and how they feel.

01:37:14.617 --> 01:37:18.717
And when you begin to speak to the black masses and how they feel and think,

01:37:18.897 --> 01:37:23.577
then the whites call you a racist. because you have to talk in the context of

01:37:23.577 --> 01:37:28.677
the intense degree of dissatisfaction that exists in the Negro community.

01:37:29.077 --> 01:37:30.977
Whites do not want to hear this.

01:37:32.557 --> 01:37:37.757
Is that, are we still at that point or do you think there's been some movement in that?

01:37:38.337 --> 01:37:43.997
Oh no, we still at that point. You see that with the, how political black political

01:37:43.997 --> 01:37:48.377
leaders are picked, you know, the so-called leaders, you know,

01:37:48.937 --> 01:37:50.477
you know, we can, you know.

01:37:51.557 --> 01:37:55.037
The leadership today, you know, they say certain things, certain crumbs,

01:37:55.537 --> 01:38:01.637
you know, but at the end of the day, not really talking about how do we lift

01:38:01.637 --> 01:38:05.677
ourselves collectively from the point that we're at now.

01:38:05.797 --> 01:38:08.577
So, for example, in talking about education.

01:38:09.583 --> 01:38:13.243
In the book, I talk about how we as African-Americans, our children,

01:38:13.543 --> 01:38:19.203
have lagged in education and actually in some respects decreased when you talk

01:38:19.203 --> 01:38:23.223
about some of the math results and the reading results of eighth graders and

01:38:23.223 --> 01:38:27.043
fourth graders from 1992 to 2024.

01:38:27.403 --> 01:38:33.763
You don't hear any of our leaders talking about that and the resources that

01:38:33.763 --> 01:38:37.663
are needed to really get that moving.

01:38:37.663 --> 01:38:44.543
And with AI now, you know, I'm really concerned myself of what's that about.

01:38:44.663 --> 01:38:51.203
But getting back to the point, you know, and then talking about the economics,

01:38:51.223 --> 01:38:56.043
you know, you look at the black unemployment, you know,

01:38:56.483 --> 01:39:03.803
black female unemployment, 7.1% in December, black male unemployment, 7.5% in December.

01:39:03.803 --> 01:39:07.843
White female unemployment 3.4%, black male unemployed,

01:39:08.103 --> 01:39:14.563
I mean, white female unemployment rate 3.4%, white male unemployment rate 3.6%,

01:39:14.563 --> 01:39:19.383
black wealth 352,000, white wealth 1.5 million.

01:39:19.583 --> 01:39:23.623
You don't hear black leaders talking about that because again,

01:39:24.123 --> 01:39:28.483
if black leaders, especially elected officials talk about it,

01:39:28.603 --> 01:39:33.043
then that's going to really disturb, you know.

01:39:33.663 --> 01:39:36.623
Whites because they don't assume that we really care about that stuff,

01:39:36.843 --> 01:39:41.023
you know, but obviously we do. And obviously the black masses do.

01:39:41.283 --> 01:39:46.903
But as Malcolm X said, when you as a leader, a so-called leader start talking

01:39:46.903 --> 01:39:51.523
about this stuff, then you kind of spook them and then they get you out of the paint.

01:39:51.523 --> 01:39:59.343
And so then therefore, and Black leaders know this, which is why they don't speak on these things.

01:39:59.663 --> 01:40:05.163
So just as Malcolm X said that in the 60s, it still applies in 2026.

01:40:05.683 --> 01:40:10.703
Yeah. You know, your book really kind of hit home with me because I was one

01:40:10.703 --> 01:40:12.783
of those Black elected officials, right?

01:40:13.716 --> 01:40:17.436
And, you know, it was like, I was thinking about it and I said,

01:40:17.436 --> 01:40:22.116
I did have a lot of freedom, but I didn't really, I just thought it was just

01:40:22.116 --> 01:40:26.296
because, you know, it's me and this is what I believe and all that.

01:40:26.416 --> 01:40:32.696
But because the way my district was set up, it was like, you know, it was majority black.

01:40:32.816 --> 01:40:36.736
When I first got elected, my district was 85% black and then they redrawed it

01:40:36.736 --> 01:40:38.256
and dropped it down to 65. Right.

01:40:39.237 --> 01:40:43.057
But but, you know, it still was a majority black district.

01:40:43.477 --> 01:40:49.217
Right. And we did that strategically to try to get more Democrats in as opposed

01:40:49.217 --> 01:40:55.597
to because when you had it at 85 percent that created these super white districts and in the south,

01:40:55.977 --> 01:41:00.597
they because it was Mississippi, you know, they flip Republican. So right.

01:41:01.317 --> 01:41:05.757
But, you know, in reading, you know, reading the book, it was just kind of like

01:41:05.757 --> 01:41:10.857
an analysis of those of us that were elected in districts, you know,

01:41:10.977 --> 01:41:14.577
compared to like, say, Byron Donald's, who's in a district that's majority white.

01:41:15.017 --> 01:41:19.697
Right. And he's in there. So his agenda is totally different from mine.

01:41:20.097 --> 01:41:26.257
Right. But then it came down to the part about pushing the issue.

01:41:27.177 --> 01:41:31.977
And so my thing was I would push the issue. I would introduce like 150 bills

01:41:31.977 --> 01:41:38.397
a year and I would push the issue, but I wouldn't get any traction on it, right? Right.

01:41:38.737 --> 01:41:43.617
And then if something happened, I could slide that in. Okay, great.

01:41:43.937 --> 01:41:49.277
You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, you know, they wanted to change one year.

01:41:49.397 --> 01:41:53.897
They wanted to change the rates of how much people had to pay once they got out of jail. Right.

01:41:54.897 --> 01:41:58.657
You know, you had to pay a fee, you know, to your probation officer.

01:41:59.057 --> 01:42:06.877
So I have been pushing legislation to give people like a two month extension on their first payment.

01:42:07.217 --> 01:42:10.657
Right. That bill never got anywhere. So once they brought the bill up to raise

01:42:10.657 --> 01:42:13.317
the money, I was able to stick that in as an amendment.

01:42:13.317 --> 01:42:16.797
Right right and right and that helps

01:42:16.797 --> 01:42:19.977
black people but it's not it's not

01:42:19.977 --> 01:42:25.037
systematic changing for black people it's improving black people within the

01:42:25.037 --> 01:42:30.477
system right right so that was so when i was reading the book i was like going

01:42:30.477 --> 01:42:36.077
I said yep that's kind of like where we are you know and that was the challenge

01:42:36.077 --> 01:42:38.397
you know what I'm saying right right right,

01:42:39.696 --> 01:42:43.596
And this next question kind of goes along with that. In describing Atlanta,

01:42:44.156 --> 01:42:49.896
you said a community where only a rare few black people attain wealth is not black success.

01:42:51.536 --> 01:42:52.736
It's not because...

01:42:54.136 --> 01:42:59.536
Those few people have been chosen by the system, you know, as a,

01:42:59.736 --> 01:43:05.076
as one of those things, it's kind of like a, you know, how we describe how certain

01:43:05.076 --> 01:43:08.216
people describe Asians as the model minority, right?

01:43:08.656 --> 01:43:11.656
See, they come over here, you can do it. So why can't you do it?

01:43:11.656 --> 01:43:17.856
So it's kind of the same thing when you have those few black individuals who

01:43:17.856 --> 01:43:22.076
have wealth and whites allow them to have their wealth and that's fine, you know,

01:43:22.216 --> 01:43:28.956
but the great majority of the black people in the vicinity, especially in Atlanta,

01:43:29.296 --> 01:43:32.756
you know, are poor, you know, are, are in, you know,

01:43:33.136 --> 01:43:36.356
and are struggling and struggling to make ends meet.

01:43:36.356 --> 01:43:41.656
And so, again, so just because a few celebrities and, you know,

01:43:41.796 --> 01:43:44.936
and ballplayers and whatnot have money and they flaunt their money,

01:43:45.256 --> 01:43:50.076
you know, a lot of them aren't, you know, they have a lot of money,

01:43:50.236 --> 01:43:51.416
but they have a lot of debt, too.

01:43:51.416 --> 01:43:58.476
You know, so, so, and so the system designs it to where, you know, they're displayed,

01:43:58.776 --> 01:44:03.476
they're displayed, but at the end of the day, you know, overall,

01:44:03.636 --> 01:44:06.916
our people are still suffering and it's not success.

01:44:06.916 --> 01:44:12.316
Success is measured when all of us collectively have equity in a system to where

01:44:12.316 --> 01:44:21.276
we have a legitimate chance, a legitimate shot to to to to defeat our our condition.

01:44:21.956 --> 01:44:27.456
And so me saying that in that book, I really, and it's not even just Atlanta,

01:44:27.716 --> 01:44:32.956
it's any major city center around the United States, you know,

01:44:33.316 --> 01:44:36.896
where, where, you know, people, oh yeah, this black person is rich and that

01:44:36.896 --> 01:44:42.416
black person is rich, but the black person down the street can barely afford to get bread.

01:44:42.716 --> 01:44:46.376
And so that's one of the things where we as African-Americans,

01:44:46.376 --> 01:44:48.236
we've been conditioned over the years.

01:44:49.410 --> 01:44:52.870
Know, to just focus on the celebrity, celebrity worship, um,

01:44:52.930 --> 01:44:56.450
just focus on the, the, the wealthiest in our community,

01:44:56.570 --> 01:45:01.330
but not our own condition for those of us who, who don't have the wealth and

01:45:01.330 --> 01:45:04.610
don't have the opportunity to obtain the wealth.

01:45:04.890 --> 01:45:11.050
And nevertheless, you know, the system extracts whatever it needs from us in

01:45:11.050 --> 01:45:14.710
order to keep going and keeping us oppressed. Yeah.

01:45:15.210 --> 01:45:22.590
And you, you know, it's hard for people to put it in context a lot of times, but,

01:45:22.750 --> 01:45:26.950
you know, you spelled it out in the book and I've said it on the show is that,

01:45:27.090 --> 01:45:30.870
you know, Atlanta has had black leadership since 1974.

01:45:30.870 --> 01:45:35.270
For yeah and and Maynard Jackson's main

01:45:35.270 --> 01:45:38.150
reason and and he was kind of the blueprint for every

01:45:38.150 --> 01:45:42.590
black mayor after him it was like okay he came in and he got black people money

01:45:42.590 --> 01:45:48.030
off these government contracts and built his black middle class and upper class

01:45:48.030 --> 01:45:53.530
and it's like that's what we need to do right right Michael white did the same

01:45:53.530 --> 01:45:56.230
thing in Cleveland it's like that's why all the stadiums,

01:45:57.090 --> 01:46:01.810
set up the way they are downtown because that was his vision and he got black

01:46:01.810 --> 01:46:06.150
folks to make money off of that even to this day.

01:46:06.810 --> 01:46:08.630
Businesses and stuff around there.

01:46:09.410 --> 01:46:11.250
Mary and Barry too. Exactly.

01:46:12.390 --> 01:46:18.390
But Atlanta has the largest wealth gap of any city in the United States and

01:46:18.390 --> 01:46:20.710
black folks are in charge. Yes.

01:46:22.630 --> 01:46:25.910
Again, that's one of those like,

01:46:26.995 --> 01:46:30.415
are we really doing and and and and how much

01:46:30.415 --> 01:46:34.295
power do we really have if the

01:46:34.295 --> 01:46:40.195
goal of black politics was to increase and and strengthen black economics i

01:46:40.195 --> 01:46:44.595
you know the measuring stick is like i don't think we've achieved that you know

01:46:44.595 --> 01:46:48.655
and it's and that's and that's a hard pill to swallow for those of us who actually

01:46:48.655 --> 01:46:52.535
have been elected it's like damn I didn't do enough you know what I'm saying?

01:46:53.495 --> 01:46:59.915
Well, I think the thing is that when you're in it, it's really kind of hard

01:46:59.915 --> 01:47:01.955
to take a step back and evaluate.

01:47:02.595 --> 01:47:09.935
And one of the things I argue in the book is that we really have to spend more time as a community and,

01:47:10.610 --> 01:47:20.050
really focusing on the nuts and bolts of how do we get control of these institutions?

01:47:20.270 --> 01:47:24.910
Like, for example, you know, here in Orlando, you know, they have certain sections

01:47:24.910 --> 01:47:30.090
where Asians have their own centers and they have the bank there,

01:47:30.230 --> 01:47:34.670
they have a shopping center, they have the clothing center, they have the, you know,

01:47:34.850 --> 01:47:37.790
all in one, one, one stop shop.

01:47:37.790 --> 01:47:41.550
But the main piece of of that is the bank. Right.

01:47:41.950 --> 01:47:48.090
And so what I realized and I talk about this in the book is that we as as African-Americans

01:47:48.090 --> 01:47:53.710
in this country, first of all, we don't we don't own enough banks and we don't have enough.

01:47:53.710 --> 01:47:58.810
Even, even not even, not only just when we talk about, when I talk about banks, I'm talking about,

01:47:59.450 --> 01:48:03.170
financial institutions where I could deposit my money, you know,

01:48:03.550 --> 01:48:07.010
not just, you know, cause some people say, Oh, we got black banks,

01:48:07.090 --> 01:48:10.710
but a lot of black banks are just intermediaries to help,

01:48:11.150 --> 01:48:16.210
you know, intermediaries to like SBA loans and that type of thing, but they're not actual.

01:48:17.070 --> 01:48:20.910
Depositors, you know, where you could deposit money and then the money deals interest.

01:48:21.150 --> 01:48:25.530
So for one, we don't have enough of that. We don't have enough of that for one.

01:48:25.670 --> 01:48:31.650
And we don't have enough of, uh, of distribution centers when it comes to black

01:48:31.650 --> 01:48:33.230
owned stores and businesses.

01:48:33.530 --> 01:48:38.370
And so that's one of the things where, you know, when we had this march against,

01:48:38.370 --> 01:48:42.410
uh, pastor Jamal Bryant, you know, was leading that march against target.

01:48:42.850 --> 01:48:47.990
Right. And some of the other, uh, leaders, you know, the boycott target.

01:48:48.942 --> 01:48:54.942
It was like, okay, that's great. But then Walmart's profit shot up during that time period.

01:48:55.082 --> 01:48:59.762
So we abandoned Target to go to Walmart, you know, and instead of,

01:48:59.922 --> 01:49:03.882
and obviously you have to take baby steps, but it's, it's crazy that we're in

01:49:03.882 --> 01:49:08.682
2026, still talking about taking baby steps when we own,

01:49:08.942 --> 01:49:13.322
you know, we own stores, we own business, you know, Walmart was a little rinky

01:49:13.322 --> 01:49:18.322
dink store back in the day that built itself up, you know, and we had stores

01:49:18.322 --> 01:49:22.462
that were better than Walmart in the, in the, in the forties, fifties, and sixties.

01:49:22.662 --> 01:49:27.762
But then we abandoned it when we got a little piece of the, of the integration, you know?

01:49:27.922 --> 01:49:32.382
And so I didn't hear enough of Pastor Jamal Bryant and some of these other leaders

01:49:32.382 --> 01:49:35.802
who were talking about, uh, boycott target.

01:49:36.222 --> 01:49:39.222
You know, I didn't hear enough about not only shopping black,

01:49:39.262 --> 01:49:42.022
but Hey, how do we build black?

01:49:42.162 --> 01:49:45.822
It's not just shop black, build black. How do we build black?

01:49:46.042 --> 01:49:51.542
So now we have a viable alternative to the chain, the target chain stores.

01:49:51.642 --> 01:49:55.202
And obviously that takes a conglomerate of having black banks,

01:49:55.382 --> 01:49:59.702
of having black distribution centers, you know, all those things goes together,

01:49:59.702 --> 01:50:03.802
but I don't hear enough of our leaders really pushing that.

01:50:03.982 --> 01:50:07.542
And so we should have been pushing that since the 60s. And we were,

01:50:07.722 --> 01:50:09.502
Malcolm X was pushing, but then he got killed.

01:50:09.662 --> 01:50:12.722
And after that, we lost our way as far as that is concerned.

01:50:13.002 --> 01:50:18.382
And it's 2026 and we're still talking about boycotting some white corporation

01:50:18.382 --> 01:50:21.582
to go shop at another white corporation. And it's just insanity.

01:50:22.362 --> 01:50:23.742
Well, yeah. And I, you.

01:50:25.267 --> 01:50:32.127
Had a black bank in in Jackson Mississippi and and you know several of us were investors in it,

01:50:33.147 --> 01:50:36.047
and you know our problem was was that

01:50:36.047 --> 01:50:39.887
we were trying to do exactly what you were talking about but we

01:50:39.887 --> 01:50:42.607
opened ourselves up for the system to shut us

01:50:42.607 --> 01:50:46.947
down because we sold stocks and

01:50:46.947 --> 01:50:49.867
so there was a white

01:50:49.867 --> 01:50:52.747
bank that believed in what we were trying

01:50:52.747 --> 01:50:55.487
to do of course they were going to get something out of it

01:50:55.487 --> 01:50:58.467
right right right they bought like an incredible amount

01:50:58.467 --> 01:51:01.487
of shares and so what happened they did

01:51:01.487 --> 01:51:04.507
that thinking well black folks not really going to do anything so we

01:51:04.507 --> 01:51:07.387
got to step in and make sure this happens well it turned out

01:51:07.387 --> 01:51:13.267
black folks in the community bought shares right so we got to a point where

01:51:13.267 --> 01:51:18.707
it was like uh-oh now we're on the sec radar so then that was a whole different

01:51:18.707 --> 01:51:22.407
level that the folks that were that had organized the bank weren't ready for

01:51:22.407 --> 01:51:25.607
it they didn't right they didn't anticipate that we were going to be.

01:51:26.147 --> 01:51:29.247
Have that big of a an investment pool

01:51:29.247 --> 01:51:32.027
where we had to report to the sec and we had to

01:51:32.027 --> 01:51:35.067
pay these lawyers it it just it just got crazy

01:51:35.067 --> 01:51:40.687
and so that bank wanted to buy us and we was like no we're gonna go to it and

01:51:40.687 --> 01:51:45.187
we found liberty bank and that's why liberty bank is in jackson now because

01:51:45.187 --> 01:51:50.127
they were based out of new orleans and so they bought us out and so it's like

01:51:50.127 --> 01:51:52.587
so at least it stayed within a black bank.

01:51:52.707 --> 01:51:56.047
But like you said, a lot of the, and that's a whole different conversation we

01:51:56.047 --> 01:52:02.927
can get into, but it's, it's, you know, the banking system is totally different.

01:52:02.927 --> 01:52:07.267
And when you're talking about nation building, right, this, this whole thing

01:52:07.267 --> 01:52:12.187
with Lisa Cook and Jerome Powell and the president, it goes all the way back

01:52:12.187 --> 01:52:17.407
to Marbury and Madison that when you're talking about nation building, right.

01:52:17.821 --> 01:52:24.001
Got to have that one bank that is totally independent of the government to make

01:52:24.001 --> 01:52:26.081
sure that the economy is driven.

01:52:26.361 --> 01:52:28.861
So that's, yeah. Anyway, so

01:52:28.861 --> 01:52:31.661
let's, I got a couple more questions that I'm going to let you go ahead.

01:52:32.141 --> 01:52:37.941
A lot of your focus in chapter four, I believe, I think the chapter on political

01:52:37.941 --> 01:52:40.381
repair is on reparation.

01:52:40.581 --> 01:52:45.741
Is your argument that reparations will lead to equity and reform in America?

01:52:46.001 --> 01:52:52.581
Yes, I believe that reparations specifically for African-Americans who can trace

01:52:52.581 --> 01:53:00.321
their lineage in the plantation is very important in helping with equity.

01:53:00.581 --> 01:53:05.561
You know, when we talk about equity in equalizing the wealth gap between whites and blacks.

01:53:06.341 --> 01:53:15.081
And I also believe part of reviving or part of the reparations is reviving the Freedmen's Bureau.

01:53:15.281 --> 01:53:17.481
I believe that's very important.

01:53:17.861 --> 01:53:23.461
And then the other piece to it is, we gotta have some real.

01:53:24.541 --> 01:53:29.401
Like you just alluded to, you just talked about, we have to have black banks

01:53:29.401 --> 01:53:35.281
who understand the banking system and understand it at a very high level to

01:53:35.281 --> 01:53:39.801
help shepherd reparations specifically for African-Americans.

01:53:39.801 --> 01:53:46.501
I believe that's where, and it's not just about reparations, but I believe that is,

01:53:47.520 --> 01:53:54.580
base of any type of political and legal argument when it comes to African-Americans

01:53:54.580 --> 01:53:59.520
in this country, because we're a unique minority in the sense that,

01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:02.120
you know, we were forced over here.

01:54:02.440 --> 01:54:05.480
You know, we didn't willingly immigrate to this country.

01:54:05.880 --> 01:54:11.760
Every other group willingly immigrated to this country, except the African-Americans.

01:54:12.200 --> 01:54:17.420
So that is why reparations in itself is unique.

01:54:17.960 --> 01:54:24.120
And I believe a lot of, I believe, you know, because even you look at people like Ann Coulter,

01:54:24.820 --> 01:54:29.080
you know, some of these people starting to come around and believe in reparation,

01:54:29.180 --> 01:54:33.500
but although they believe in it more so, not believe in it, but more open to

01:54:33.500 --> 01:54:36.160
it, more so because it's one of those things where it's like,

01:54:36.240 --> 01:54:38.300
okay, let's just pay them off and get it over with.

01:54:38.300 --> 01:54:40.620
And now we never have to hear about racism again.

01:54:41.500 --> 01:54:46.960
I believe it's from that perspective, which, you know, you're always going to have racism.

01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:50.980
But at the same time, I believe that, you know, reparations,

01:54:51.140 --> 01:54:54.000
whether we're talking about cash or we're talking about land,

01:54:54.420 --> 01:54:56.000
it has to be either cash or land.

01:54:56.000 --> 01:55:00.840
I don't want to hear about college scholarships and any of those type of ancillary

01:55:00.840 --> 01:55:03.440
type of things. It has to be cash or land.

01:55:03.780 --> 01:55:07.200
And I believe that if that is to occur,

01:55:08.020 --> 01:55:12.540
then now, you know, you know, if the leadership is right,

01:55:12.680 --> 01:55:16.440
if the leadership is there really understanding, I believe that will really

01:55:16.440 --> 01:55:24.920
go a long way in equalizing, you know, as far as equalizing the wealth gap between whites and blacks.

01:55:24.920 --> 01:55:31.760
So, yeah, I, excuse me, I, I, I, I like the fact that you brought up the Freedmen

01:55:31.760 --> 01:55:34.220
Bureau because a lot of people were.

01:55:34.630 --> 01:55:39.030
Lot of our folks don't know that history, that there actually was a government

01:55:39.030 --> 01:55:43.210
agency set up for newly freed slaves.

01:55:44.170 --> 01:55:52.410
And it got basically dismantled because it was in the Department of War, right? Yes.

01:55:52.610 --> 01:55:56.390
Which is another reason why I don't like the Secretary of War.

01:55:56.750 --> 01:56:01.170
Yeah, that brings up too many bad memories. But, you know, what we call the

01:56:01.170 --> 01:56:04.170
Department of Defense now, that's where the Freedmen's Bureau was in.

01:56:04.410 --> 01:56:08.370
So if they cut the defense budget, then they cut the budget for the Bureau.

01:56:08.590 --> 01:56:11.850
And I'd say, if you're going to establish something like that,

01:56:12.190 --> 01:56:14.750
then it has to be a standalone agency.

01:56:14.990 --> 01:56:20.170
And so, you know, with its own appropriation and their sole purpose is to deal

01:56:20.170 --> 01:56:22.170
with, you know, and take care of us.

01:56:22.710 --> 01:56:26.930
Don't stick us in the Department of Interior like you've done with the Native Americans and all that.

01:56:27.290 --> 01:56:32.110
Right, right. Basically, it has to be created by Congress. It can be created

01:56:32.110 --> 01:56:38.470
under the executive of the president, which is what the Department of Defense

01:56:38.470 --> 01:56:40.990
is under the direction of the president.

01:56:41.030 --> 01:56:46.870
It has to be created by a Congress that's instatutory and the budget is allocated

01:56:46.870 --> 01:56:49.430
to that separate agency.

01:56:49.750 --> 01:56:54.430
And then I think once that is established, now we're gaining some,

01:56:54.650 --> 01:56:56.990
it doesn't necessarily have to be called the Freedmen's Bureau.

01:56:57.210 --> 01:57:02.950
But in the same vein of it, now we can start getting some traction as far as

01:57:02.950 --> 01:57:05.630
reparations is concerned. Yeah.

01:57:07.073 --> 01:57:10.293
Make you also make the argument that a black nationalist

01:57:10.293 --> 01:57:13.193
party could be successful in this

01:57:13.193 --> 01:57:15.853
era of trump why do you why do you

01:57:15.853 --> 01:57:23.573
think that i believe it could be successful because we have so many ways now

01:57:23.573 --> 01:57:30.653
to get information to people you know and even even before that i mean you look

01:57:30.653 --> 01:57:34.613
at what Ross Perot did in the 92 election, right?

01:57:34.893 --> 01:57:42.393
And so now coming back to here, I think a lot of people on both sides of the

01:57:42.393 --> 01:57:48.313
aisle, frankly, are getting tired of the party politics.

01:57:48.453 --> 01:57:53.673
And I think specifically African-Americans are getting tired of being placated

01:57:53.673 --> 01:57:55.533
by the Democratic Party.

01:57:56.424 --> 01:58:01.584
Far as on a national level, as far as our issues. Every other issue now is at

01:58:01.584 --> 01:58:04.484
the forefront and not the issues of African-Americans.

01:58:05.264 --> 01:58:10.824
And the problems of African-Americans, in my opinion, and from research and

01:58:10.824 --> 01:58:16.744
study has amplified over the years because of the treatment.

01:58:17.024 --> 01:58:22.464
You saw how Joe Biden, you saw what he said, he said that in,

01:58:22.564 --> 01:58:25.764
was it the NAACP conference?

01:58:25.864 --> 01:58:28.644
And one of those black leader conferences or whatever.

01:58:28.764 --> 01:58:32.304
He said, you're going to have to play nice with the Latinos. He said that,

01:58:32.604 --> 01:58:38.224
you know, so him saying that basically, you know, he was speaking as the head

01:58:38.224 --> 01:58:42.584
of the party and it's obviously a culmination of what type of talks they've

01:58:42.584 --> 01:58:44.664
had internally in a party.

01:58:44.684 --> 01:58:47.124
And it's just something on the forefront of his mind.

01:58:47.664 --> 01:58:54.044
So I believe a Black Nationalist Party can be successful in this era of Trump

01:58:54.044 --> 01:59:03.284
and beyond because I believe millennials and Gen Z are very much so feeling,

01:59:03.464 --> 01:59:04.364
especially millennials,

01:59:04.744 --> 01:59:07.904
are feeling the effects of this administration.

01:59:08.044 --> 01:59:14.324
I mean, when those tariffs went through last year, was being throttled off and on, off and on.

01:59:14.484 --> 01:59:19.044
I mean, that threw off. I mean, a lot of job loss occurred,

01:59:19.464 --> 01:59:25.204
a lot of job loss, a lot of decline in wealth in the properties that we do have

01:59:25.204 --> 01:59:30.224
as African-Americans, and especially for those of us who are millennials who own property.

01:59:30.484 --> 01:59:35.604
And so you're seeing the conversations happen online.

01:59:35.704 --> 01:59:41.204
So I do believe that even if it's just to organize at more so of a local level.

01:59:42.101 --> 01:59:46.421
I believe that a Black nationalist party, whether it's at a local level,

01:59:46.581 --> 01:59:52.281
state level, or even national level, can have some traction and play a key role.

01:59:52.401 --> 01:59:54.621
I mean, you see what the Green Party did.

01:59:55.241 --> 02:00:01.021
They have reparations on their agenda, and they got some good sizable vote.

02:00:01.021 --> 02:00:05.701
You know, and so so that's why I believe that a black nationalist party can

02:00:05.701 --> 02:00:09.021
be successful in the area of Trump, because, like I said, communication,

02:00:09.361 --> 02:00:16.401
the speed of information can really flow the speed to send money to campaigns,

02:00:16.721 --> 02:00:18.161
you know, for campaign contributions.

02:00:18.541 --> 02:00:23.421
You know, we have Zelle and all these other things. So I do believe it can be

02:00:23.421 --> 02:00:29.241
successful if done right and the right people emerge to push it forward.

02:00:29.241 --> 02:00:33.461
Yeah, and that's going to be the challenge.

02:00:34.221 --> 02:00:38.721
It was me and this other representative, Jim Evans, when we served.

02:00:38.861 --> 02:00:42.701
We used to tell people all the time, there's three divisions in the Mississippi

02:00:42.701 --> 02:00:45.021
House of Representatives. There's the white Democrats.

02:00:46.324 --> 02:00:51.804
White Republicans and us. Most of the time we were in coalition with the white

02:00:51.804 --> 02:00:55.464
Democrats, but every now and then we had to have a coalition of white Republicans

02:00:55.464 --> 02:00:59.904
to make sure that certain things, like for example,

02:01:00.644 --> 02:01:03.964
our state, when I was there, didn't have a department of Medicaid.

02:01:03.964 --> 02:01:07.164
It was contracted out to somebody to administrate.

02:01:07.644 --> 02:01:11.564
In Mississippi, we had a black doctor that had the contract.

02:01:12.604 --> 02:01:17.104
We had to, the Democrats wanted a state agency and the Republicans like,

02:01:17.224 --> 02:01:18.344
no, we like the contractor.

02:01:18.724 --> 02:01:23.064
So they would side with us so the black man could keep the contract.

02:01:24.184 --> 02:01:31.244
And so, you know, there's gotta, there's gotta be so much work and so much upheaval.

02:01:31.484 --> 02:01:35.644
And that could be a whole nother show between you and I doc on that one.

02:01:35.864 --> 02:01:43.784
And, you know, but And the only way I can see is that it has to be local and

02:01:43.784 --> 02:01:51.544
that we have to have setups like rank choice voting to give a black nationalist party a chance.

02:01:51.984 --> 02:01:56.524
Yes. Because if we if we just try to do it, we just say, OK,

02:01:56.584 --> 02:01:58.864
we're going to break away and we're just going to vote for black candidates.

02:01:58.864 --> 02:02:04.004
We did that until Fannie Lou Hamer crashed 64 convention in Atlantic City.

02:02:04.244 --> 02:02:08.084
And that's when black folks wholeheartedly went Democratic at that point because

02:02:08.084 --> 02:02:11.904
you had blacks in the north and the south. Sorry, Democrat then.

02:02:12.444 --> 02:02:16.324
But if we do it the traditional way, we try to get into like we ain't we ain't

02:02:16.324 --> 02:02:19.844
got we we collectively have the money of a Ross Perot, but.

02:02:20.929 --> 02:02:24.129
Know, we don't collectively pool our money to do something like that.

02:02:24.269 --> 02:02:28.189
So that, like I said, that's something because I got to let you go,

02:02:28.269 --> 02:02:33.609
but that's just something that we really got to get into and get into the teeth

02:02:33.609 --> 02:02:35.629
of that and how to make that happen.

02:02:35.909 --> 02:02:38.589
So let me, let's, let's finish it off like this.

02:02:39.289 --> 02:02:43.069
Excuse me. Finish this sentence. I have hope because.

02:02:43.809 --> 02:02:49.809
I have hope because the grassroots is awakening.

02:02:50.249 --> 02:02:56.589
I truly believe the grassroots is awakening to our condition,

02:02:57.129 --> 02:03:00.129
being educated to our condition.

02:03:00.689 --> 02:03:05.749
And I believe that eventually, you know,

02:03:06.149 --> 02:03:13.929
there's going to be wholesale changes in the mentality and the minds of our

02:03:13.929 --> 02:03:20.609
people to really understand what liberation really is and to execute.

02:03:21.129 --> 02:03:27.149
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I, I share part of your hope on that one.

02:03:27.289 --> 02:03:32.429
I think, I think we do have an awakening grassroots. Yeah.

02:03:33.226 --> 02:03:38.486
But, you know, it's one thing to wake a child up is another thing to educate them. Yes.

02:03:40.506 --> 02:03:43.466
We got it. We got to get the education component together.

02:03:43.666 --> 02:03:49.366
Doctor, if if people want to get the book, if people want to reach out to you, how can they do that?

02:03:50.046 --> 02:03:55.466
They could go to my website, bitsandadjumal.com. My book, I sell signed copies

02:03:55.466 --> 02:04:00.046
of my book on the website, but also links to Amazon,

02:04:00.826 --> 02:04:05.106
links to Barnes & Noble, links to Harvard Bookstore. It's all over.

02:04:05.446 --> 02:04:10.426
Any major book retailer has the book so they can order that.

02:04:10.666 --> 02:04:14.826
And then also they can correspond with me on my website, speaking appearances,

02:04:15.466 --> 02:04:17.106
you know, that sort of thing.

02:04:17.206 --> 02:04:21.606
And also visit past lectures and interviews that I've had also.

02:04:22.206 --> 02:04:27.986
All right. Well, Dr. Vincent Edward, Olawale Adijumo, thank you so much,

02:04:28.106 --> 02:04:30.386
brother, for coming on the show. I greatly appreciate it.

02:04:31.026 --> 02:04:33.586
Thank you, sir. I greatly appreciate it as well. All right, guys.

02:04:33.686 --> 02:04:35.186
And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

02:04:47.675 --> 02:04:53.475
All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Leslie Marshall, Charlie Wells, and Dr.

02:04:53.635 --> 02:04:56.135
Vincent Adejumo for coming on the podcast.

02:04:56.795 --> 02:05:04.215
You know, I'm really, really fortunate to be able to get people to spend time on this podcast.

02:05:04.635 --> 02:05:10.335
Most of y'all, when you see people like that, you know, they get five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever.

02:05:10.595 --> 02:05:15.875
And so to be able just to spend a half hour with these people at the minimum,

02:05:16.255 --> 02:05:21.495
to talk about whatever they're doing or, you know, if they've written a book

02:05:21.495 --> 02:05:26.235
or whatever the case may be, it's really a blessing for me to be able to do that.

02:05:26.315 --> 02:05:29.395
And I hope that you look at it as a blessing for you all as listeners.

02:05:30.075 --> 02:05:35.375
So I just want to thank them. You know, Leslie and this other lady,

02:05:35.515 --> 02:05:39.635
Jessica Tarloff, are basically our voices of reason on Fox.

02:05:40.795 --> 02:05:47.715
Charlie is an incredible writer with Bloomberg, and his book is very, very compelling.

02:05:48.175 --> 02:05:55.175
He calls it a defense of millennials. I just look at it as somebody chronicling the journey.

02:05:55.735 --> 02:06:02.315
You know, he's a millennial himself, and the stories that he uses to craft a

02:06:02.315 --> 02:06:04.595
book are incredible. And then Dr.

02:06:04.755 --> 02:06:09.655
Vincent Adejumo, very, very intelligent, very, very personable,

02:06:10.195 --> 02:06:12.995
very progressive minded brother.

02:06:13.515 --> 02:06:19.215
And most definitely, you know, every guest has an open invitation to come back.

02:06:20.155 --> 02:06:26.775
And so, you know, and I try to make that clear either during the interview or even afterwards.

02:06:27.655 --> 02:06:31.375
But I don't think I've ever had a guest where I don't want them to come back.

02:06:31.615 --> 02:06:36.835
It doesn't matter even, you know, regardless of what their political position is and all that.

02:06:37.075 --> 02:06:42.995
So for those, especially those who were like the very first people to dip their toe in the water,

02:06:44.524 --> 02:06:49.244
You know, if you want to come back and come on, y'all are more than welcome to do that.

02:06:50.184 --> 02:06:54.684
But I greatly appreciate these guests, and I hope that you appreciated those interviews.

02:06:56.524 --> 02:06:59.544
So, you know, so much happens.

02:07:01.502 --> 02:07:09.942
In a span of a week in this Trump administration, it's kind of hard to just hone in on one thing.

02:07:10.082 --> 02:07:13.802
And then after I do my commentary, I was like, oh, man, I should have talked about that.

02:07:13.942 --> 02:07:17.822
You know, but it just it just is what it is. And there's so many of us doing

02:07:17.822 --> 02:07:21.862
these podcasts that if I don't address it, somebody else will.

02:07:22.582 --> 02:07:27.102
You know, because you got a lot of people focusing in on, you know,

02:07:27.742 --> 02:07:32.842
President Trump's mental acuity or his vindictiveness.

02:07:33.762 --> 02:07:39.842
And, you know, we still got this situation in Minnesota, which has only gotten worse.

02:07:40.222 --> 02:07:47.682
Right. You would think that after something of that magnitude would happen,

02:07:47.922 --> 02:07:51.762
that things would scale back a little bit.

02:07:51.862 --> 02:07:57.462
But this is why we made the comparisons to Bull Connor and others back in the

02:07:57.462 --> 02:08:02.342
60s, you know, the folks in Albany, Georgia and all these other places, St.

02:08:02.442 --> 02:08:06.902
Augustine, Florida, where they wanted to double down on the racism after Dr.

02:08:07.042 --> 02:08:11.562
King or whoever would show up, you know, they, they sent more people.

02:08:12.162 --> 02:08:16.322
They're even trying to get some folks from Alaska since they saw these videos

02:08:16.322 --> 02:08:19.902
of ice agents falling down in the ice and the snow.

02:08:19.902 --> 02:08:27.122
They've actually recruited a military unit from Alaska to come down to assist

02:08:27.122 --> 02:08:30.542
since they're trained in cold weather warfare.

02:08:31.202 --> 02:08:34.662
That's how crazy it is. They've actually tried to,

02:08:34.942 --> 02:08:44.142
they're actually investigating Governor Walz and Mayor Fry and basically anybody that is telling them,

02:08:44.142 --> 02:08:50.762
This is a bad idea for you to send 3,000 ICE agents and Border Patrol people

02:08:50.762 --> 02:08:52.982
to come to Minneapolis-St.

02:08:53.062 --> 02:08:54.342
Paul, right?

02:08:54.682 --> 02:08:59.922
So just to give you the magnitude of that, Minneapolis Police Department only

02:08:59.922 --> 02:09:01.422
has 600 police officers.

02:09:02.718 --> 02:09:10.258
And there's five times as many ICE agents and Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis

02:09:10.258 --> 02:09:12.878
right now. So you've got 3,000.

02:09:13.458 --> 02:09:16.918
And the city only has 600 police officers.

02:09:17.318 --> 02:09:23.238
That's how crazy the situation has gotten. And it was only 2,000 when they murdered Renee Good.

02:09:23.858 --> 02:09:26.438
And Jonathan Ross is still free.

02:09:27.118 --> 02:09:33.098
Kristi Noem has been lying ever since the shots went off.

02:09:33.518 --> 02:09:38.158
She lied about the woman being a terrorist. She lied about her being attacking

02:09:38.158 --> 02:09:42.878
them and stopping them from getting out of the snow and blocking traffic.

02:09:43.598 --> 02:09:48.118
She lied about all that. And so when a reporter, I think it was the lady that's

02:09:48.118 --> 02:09:54.138
on Face the nation, asked her, well, has Ross been suspended or anything like

02:09:54.138 --> 02:09:56.518
that? She says, we were just following the procedure.

02:09:57.458 --> 02:10:02.418
And when the lady read the procedure to her, she said, yeah,

02:10:02.498 --> 02:10:04.558
yeah, we're doing that. No, you're not.

02:10:05.338 --> 02:10:09.318
Because that man is, he's calling people and saying, hey, look,

02:10:09.438 --> 02:10:11.298
you know, they threatened my family and all this stuff.

02:10:11.998 --> 02:10:16.358
You know, I don't I don't want him to face a lynch mob.

02:10:16.858 --> 02:10:22.298
And so the easiest way to keep him from being a lynch mob is to treat him like

02:10:22.298 --> 02:10:27.018
any other officer involved in a shooting, especially a fatal shooting.

02:10:28.383 --> 02:10:33.423
Person needs to be on administrative leave. If you give him desk duty or whatever the case may be,

02:10:34.503 --> 02:10:39.363
you know, or just tell him to stay home, whatever, you know,

02:10:39.563 --> 02:10:44.443
but they can't even admit that they've suspended him because they haven't.

02:10:44.863 --> 02:10:47.363
They told you they weren't going to investigate it.

02:10:47.883 --> 02:10:52.163
We're going to investigate the governor of Minnesota.

02:10:52.823 --> 02:10:56.923
We're going to investigate the mayor of Minnesota, of Minneapolis because he

02:10:56.923 --> 02:10:59.683
told y'all to get the fuck out, right?

02:11:00.103 --> 02:11:06.603
But you're not going to investigate the guy that shot a 37-year-old mother of three.

02:11:07.023 --> 02:11:13.743
You're not going to investigate that at all, right? And you're prohibiting the

02:11:13.743 --> 02:11:19.603
local law enforcement from doing the same thing. Now, as I stated to Mr.

02:11:19.723 --> 02:11:26.203
Kimo last week, you got enough videotape to take that to a grand jury and just

02:11:26.203 --> 02:11:29.443
put the indictment out there. And I think that needs to happen.

02:11:30.503 --> 02:11:35.663
But I think the Minnesota officials are kind of like, bro, they sent another

02:11:35.663 --> 02:11:37.903
thousand after they shot the woman.

02:11:38.223 --> 02:11:41.483
If we indict the dude, how many more people are they going to send?

02:11:41.563 --> 02:11:43.283
They going to send the whole agency down here?

02:11:43.983 --> 02:11:46.603
They just going to take it. They going to declare martial law.

02:11:46.783 --> 02:11:49.763
I mean, so the Minnesota officials are kind of like.

02:11:50.997 --> 02:11:55.177
How are we going to play that? So at least they sued to try to get them out.

02:11:55.617 --> 02:12:00.477
And they were effective for a couple of, you know, at least 24 hours to stop

02:12:00.477 --> 02:12:03.177
them from using tear gas on the people.

02:12:03.337 --> 02:12:11.337
But then the federal circuit that they're on, the appeals court said, well, let's not.

02:12:11.897 --> 02:12:18.977
We're actually going to rule on that. So we don't need the injunction. Right.

02:12:20.197 --> 02:12:25.297
So, you know, we just have to watch it because whatever they do in Minneapolis,

02:12:25.917 --> 02:12:30.757
you know, they've tried it in L.A., saw how far they could push it.

02:12:30.937 --> 02:12:34.077
They got to Chicago, tried to see how far they could push it.

02:12:34.377 --> 02:12:38.437
And so Minneapolis now, it's gone to a whole nother level.

02:12:38.477 --> 02:12:43.477
And if they can succeed in Minneapolis, then it's coming to a city near you.

02:12:44.057 --> 02:12:48.657
And that's just the way it is. If they declare martial law, they can get the environment.

02:12:48.977 --> 02:12:52.237
To declare martial law, they're coming, right?

02:12:52.617 --> 02:12:58.817
And it's pretty obvious that they don't care. You heard Dr.

02:13:01.177 --> 02:13:06.497
Adejumo say, you know, in order to maintain white supremacy,

02:13:06.497 --> 02:13:07.577
they're going to make sacrifices.

02:13:08.057 --> 02:13:10.817
And they're looking at Renee Good as a sacrifice.

02:13:11.317 --> 02:13:15.037
Even though she is a white woman, here's what it is.

02:13:15.137 --> 02:13:19.597
They're looking at Ashley Babbitt, the young lady that got killed in January 6th.

02:13:20.849 --> 02:13:27.709
Look at her as, you know, a sacrifice, a martyr for the cause, right?

02:13:29.809 --> 02:13:37.269
So it is what it is on that. But even more so, and this is what really got me

02:13:37.269 --> 02:13:41.409
convinced that these folks are just going to do what they want to do.

02:13:41.549 --> 02:13:45.429
And yeah, I know some of y'all are like, well, what was the deal with Greenland?

02:13:45.609 --> 02:13:47.709
So Donald Trump did what he normally does.

02:13:49.669 --> 02:13:55.329
He had a fit. That's why him and Kim Jong-un get along, because they're the

02:13:55.329 --> 02:13:56.329
same type of personality.

02:13:56.849 --> 02:14:00.449
You know, I got these nuclear missiles. I'm going to use them if y'all don't

02:14:00.449 --> 02:14:03.649
pay attention to me. He does that to every new president that comes in.

02:14:04.209 --> 02:14:07.769
And then we got to make a decision what we're going to do with North Korea in

02:14:07.769 --> 02:14:11.569
about a week and then don't hear from them no more again, right?

02:14:12.249 --> 02:14:16.629
Either sanction them or in Donald Trump's case, go over there and hug I don't know.

02:14:18.095 --> 02:14:21.495
That's what President Trump does. He just, you know, he says,

02:14:21.635 --> 02:14:24.055
I'm going to tear a few or I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.

02:14:24.215 --> 02:14:25.255
We're going to invade whatever.

02:14:26.135 --> 02:14:29.295
It's like, hold on, Paul. Wait a minute. What do you want? You know,

02:14:29.335 --> 02:14:30.675
it's a kid having a tantrum.

02:14:31.375 --> 02:14:35.075
And so it was like the parent and all of us kicks in and it's like,

02:14:35.175 --> 02:14:36.475
all right, Mr. President, what do you want?

02:14:37.015 --> 02:14:40.575
What can I get you to stop kicking and screaming in the middle of the grocery store?

02:14:41.155 --> 02:14:45.695
What can I get you to stop crying and banging on the table? What can we do?

02:14:45.695 --> 02:14:48.055
You know, so they worked something out.

02:14:48.515 --> 02:14:55.375
And it sounds like what they had agreed to talk about when the folks from Greenland

02:14:55.375 --> 02:15:01.035
and Denmark came to the White House to talk to Secretary Rubio and Vice President Vance,

02:15:01.315 --> 02:15:05.235
they basically agreed to what they had talked about.

02:15:06.215 --> 02:15:09.035
Which is like, we ain't got no

02:15:09.035 --> 02:15:12.815
beef with you. If you want to expand the military base you got here, okay.

02:15:13.555 --> 02:15:15.915
Y'all want to have a submarine base. You want to have planes.

02:15:16.075 --> 02:15:19.395
You want to have aircraft carriers, whatever you want. We cool with that.

02:15:19.815 --> 02:15:20.895
We ain't got no beef with you.

02:15:22.635 --> 02:15:32.675
So there was that. But the House Oversight Committee, I guess it was oversight.

02:15:32.855 --> 02:15:36.355
It might have been judiciary. Whichever one Jim Jordan is over.

02:15:37.955 --> 02:15:47.835
The man who still has not yet responded to his subpoena and testified, had another hearing.

02:15:48.255 --> 02:15:53.135
And this one is with the special prosecutor, Jack Smith.

02:15:54.544 --> 02:15:58.624
I think that's his name, Smith, right? Let me double check that,

02:15:58.724 --> 02:16:03.144
make sure I don't get that wrong, Lord Jesus, because, you know, yeah, Jack Smith.

02:16:04.704 --> 02:16:13.144
So they had had a private hearing with him where he laid out basically what

02:16:13.144 --> 02:16:15.444
his case was on President Trump.

02:16:16.544 --> 02:16:23.524
And, you know, and so they decided, well, I guess we can have a public one now.

02:16:23.744 --> 02:16:28.524
Once they realize what he was going to say, then they can orchestrate it the way they want to.

02:16:28.664 --> 02:16:35.104
And, you know, these public ones are, you know, as one representative said,

02:16:35.384 --> 02:16:41.804
theater, where, you know, you don't, I don't know if you really get any good information out of it.

02:16:41.804 --> 02:16:45.324
But the Democrats get to do their thing.

02:16:45.564 --> 02:16:48.984
The Republicans get to do their thing. And then it's over.

02:16:49.824 --> 02:16:56.984
So, of course, you know, the Democrats were trying to get the substance of of

02:16:56.984 --> 02:17:02.744
his report concerning the election interference case,

02:17:02.964 --> 02:17:09.564
because he can't talk about the stolen documents case because Judge Aileen Cannon,

02:17:09.564 --> 02:17:12.144
who really understood her assignment,

02:17:12.744 --> 02:17:17.664
she understood Donald Trump appointed her, so she took care of him, right?

02:17:18.364 --> 02:17:27.324
She put a gag order on anything, any report dealing with that case until the end of February.

02:17:28.044 --> 02:17:32.544
So he couldn't talk about that case at all. The only thing he could talk about

02:17:32.544 --> 02:17:34.164
was the elections interference case.

02:17:34.924 --> 02:17:39.484
And, you know, the Democrats were, like I said, trying to get the substance

02:17:39.484 --> 02:17:44.644
of the case and, you know, why he felt like if he took it to trial that Donald

02:17:44.644 --> 02:17:45.684
Trump would have been convicted.

02:17:46.584 --> 02:17:50.284
And then, of course, Republicans were trying to highlight the fact that,

02:17:50.344 --> 02:17:51.964
you know, he's lost some cases.

02:17:54.167 --> 02:17:57.647
It was one case, he wasn't even the lead prosecutor, but he was on the team.

02:17:58.127 --> 02:18:02.747
And, you know, they were trying to attribute that as a loss for him, right?

02:18:03.987 --> 02:18:09.467
And, you know, and just hung up about, you know, the methodology,

02:18:09.807 --> 02:18:14.547
how he went about investigating instead of dealing with the facts.

02:18:15.507 --> 02:18:20.407
Except there's one particular legislator, and he's a gentleman out of Texas.

02:18:20.407 --> 02:18:24.207
His name is Troy Nehls. And he's not even running for re-election.

02:18:24.627 --> 02:18:29.747
I don't know what he's going to run for next, but he's not going to run for re-election.

02:18:30.147 --> 02:18:34.427
He was a sheriff down there, I want to say in Fort Bend County in Texas.

02:18:35.207 --> 02:18:38.327
And then he got elected to the legislature, the U.S. Congress.

02:18:40.067 --> 02:18:42.787
And so this is a guy that used to be in law enforcement.

02:18:44.967 --> 02:18:50.747
And right after January 6th happened, he was one of those Republicans that's

02:18:50.747 --> 02:18:53.807
like, Everybody needed to go to jail that was involved with it, right?

02:18:54.367 --> 02:19:01.367
But now, even in his last days, he has become a Trump apologist.

02:19:02.607 --> 02:19:10.587
And so he went as far as to say that Jack Smith was going after the wrong people.

02:19:11.427 --> 02:19:14.727
Now, he wasn't one of those folks with the conspiracy theory,

02:19:14.907 --> 02:19:20.307
oh, the FBI put people in to agitate the people. No, he wasn't doing his conspiracy theories.

02:19:21.027 --> 02:19:25.207
He wanted to lay the blame totally on the Capitol Police.

02:19:26.067 --> 02:19:32.347
He wanted to say that it was the Capitol Police's fault that these people stormed the Capitol building.

02:19:33.822 --> 02:19:40.942
And, unfortunately for him, there were four former Capitol Police officers.

02:19:41.562 --> 02:19:45.742
One of them has been on the podcast, Aquanino Gunnell.

02:19:46.402 --> 02:19:52.842
And Sergeant Gunnell, he was there, Mike Fanone and Harry Dunn.

02:19:53.102 --> 02:19:58.282
And there was another one there, too. I couldn't remember who he was. But it was four of them.

02:19:58.742 --> 02:20:01.282
And he said that in front of them.

02:20:02.902 --> 02:20:07.122
And Mr. Ferdinand, who, you know,

02:20:07.562 --> 02:20:12.642
I think it was up to him if, you know, when they have this big UFC thing at

02:20:12.642 --> 02:20:16.862
the White House, he would volunteer to take on anybody in the administration,

02:20:17.302 --> 02:20:19.782
including the president, right?

02:20:20.042 --> 02:20:23.382
He basically said that was bullshit.

02:20:24.522 --> 02:20:29.462
And when Nehls addressed that, he gave him the finger.

02:20:30.662 --> 02:20:34.782
And of course it's like well that's inappropriate now what's inappropriate is

02:20:34.782 --> 02:20:41.302
that you have no soul congressman else you have no soul you you are a guy that

02:20:41.302 --> 02:20:43.942
was in law for the last person to throw,

02:20:44.702 --> 02:20:51.162
officers doing their job correctly right is another law enforcement especially

02:20:51.162 --> 02:20:55.802
somebody that was in a leadership position in law enforcement now you want to

02:20:55.802 --> 02:21:00.022
blame these guys But you ain't said nothing about Mr.

02:21:00.142 --> 02:21:06.362
Ross shooting Renee Good in the face other than whatever the talking point is.

02:21:06.562 --> 02:21:09.342
Oh, she was she was a terrorist. She was an agitator.

02:21:10.062 --> 02:21:15.042
You'll defend that guy, but you're not going to defend the people that saved your life.

02:21:15.422 --> 02:21:18.382
Right. Because you were in Congress. You were there.

02:21:20.102 --> 02:21:24.022
In the building. These guys protected you.

02:21:24.562 --> 02:21:29.102
And then you had the audacity in front of the special prosecutor who was trying

02:21:29.102 --> 02:21:31.682
to put the people in jail who were responsible for that.

02:21:32.142 --> 02:21:36.262
You had the nerve to tell him that he was going after the wrong people that

02:21:36.262 --> 02:21:38.482
you should have been after the Capitol Police.

02:21:39.962 --> 02:21:43.682
These are the people that have to be, and I'm glad he's not running for re-election.

02:21:44.382 --> 02:21:48.402
And I hope that if he runs for dog catcher or school board or whatever in the

02:21:48.402 --> 02:21:52.002
future that he's never elected anything again, right?

02:21:52.222 --> 02:21:56.662
Because these are the people that have made our situation untenable.

02:21:59.073 --> 02:22:07.893
What even compelled you to say that in this moment when the Department of Justice

02:22:07.893 --> 02:22:11.493
is not even investigating a fatal shooting,

02:22:11.873 --> 02:22:15.593
a use of force action in law enforcement terms?

02:22:16.513 --> 02:22:21.033
They're not even investigating that, but you want to blame the people who saved

02:22:21.033 --> 02:22:24.053
your life for the insurrection.

02:22:25.153 --> 02:22:28.013
That's the illogic that's out there.

02:22:28.413 --> 02:22:33.713
And the only way that we can get rid of that is that we got to vote these people out.

02:22:34.953 --> 02:22:37.753
You know, there's some people say, well, you know, there's got to be a good

02:22:37.753 --> 02:22:42.093
Republican somewhere. Well, until you find them, get these out.

02:22:42.633 --> 02:22:46.213
They got to go. All of them. All of them.

02:22:47.793 --> 02:22:51.953
Because all of them to get to the point where they are right this minute have

02:22:51.953 --> 02:22:56.073
kissed that ring, have said that Donald Trump is this or Donald Trump is that.

02:22:56.073 --> 02:23:01.153
Whether it's been on a campaign stump or on TV or wherever, they've acquiesced

02:23:01.153 --> 02:23:04.433
to it because they've wanted that blessed Trump endorsement.

02:23:04.753 --> 02:23:08.153
There are people that in the Republican primary, that's what they're doing.

02:23:08.153 --> 02:23:10.113
I'm more Trumpian than he is.

02:23:10.453 --> 02:23:13.573
I'm more Trumpian than she is. Right?

02:23:14.453 --> 02:23:17.713
That's how a Republican primary looks in the United States.

02:23:19.053 --> 02:23:24.033
So all of them got to go. Now, the reality is they're all not.

02:23:24.033 --> 02:23:30.673
There's some districts that a Democrat can't win if it's Michael Jordan or Jim

02:23:30.673 --> 02:23:33.593
Brown or Jesus Christ. A Democrat can't win.

02:23:34.173 --> 02:23:40.993
And that's the fault of those people to not be open-minded. Right? But...

02:23:43.571 --> 02:23:52.631
A man can dream, a man can wish, and I wish and I pray that all 435 seats are

02:23:52.631 --> 02:23:54.311
Democratic in the House.

02:23:55.071 --> 02:23:59.511
All 100 seats in the Senate are Democratic.

02:23:59.911 --> 02:24:06.211
That would be my goal from this point forward, until the Republican Party renounces

02:24:06.211 --> 02:24:11.051
anything to do with the Trump administration, Just like the Confederate States

02:24:11.051 --> 02:24:14.651
had to renounce being a part of the Confederacy in order to come back in.

02:24:15.491 --> 02:24:20.351
You want me to consider you for a vote. You basically have to say Trump ain't shit.

02:24:22.182 --> 02:24:25.662
Was, never will be for me to even entertain what you have to say.

02:24:26.402 --> 02:24:32.022
And that's the way we all should be because there's nothing that this guy has done, nothing.

02:24:32.662 --> 02:24:38.522
And I've tried to bring out some positive points, but I'm done with equivocating.

02:24:38.682 --> 02:24:41.342
I'm done with trying to be cordial.

02:24:42.002 --> 02:24:46.962
They all got to go, all of them. They do not need, and especially at the national

02:24:46.962 --> 02:24:51.862
level, more importantly, in the southern states, y'all got to realize these

02:24:51.862 --> 02:24:54.542
folks don't care about you. They only care about that dude.

02:24:54.782 --> 02:24:58.582
And that dude doesn't care about any of them. He doesn't care about any of us.

02:24:59.102 --> 02:25:02.922
This man has made, him and his family has made over $2 billion.

02:25:04.242 --> 02:25:09.382
Just this go around, let alone the millions of dollars he made the first term.

02:25:10.062 --> 02:25:14.682
Remember the old post office that turned into this Trump International Hotel?

02:25:15.662 --> 02:25:20.882
I just need y'all. Well, he said he was whatever he says is a lie.

02:25:21.702 --> 02:25:26.622
You know, he's having remorse now because it was like he found out that Renee

02:25:26.622 --> 02:25:28.342
Goods' dad supported him.

02:25:28.722 --> 02:25:32.622
So he's like, well, you know, I guess it was a tragedy. You were one of the

02:25:32.622 --> 02:25:34.602
people jumping out there saying she was a terrorist.

02:25:35.282 --> 02:25:36.722
You didn't apologize for that.

02:25:37.522 --> 02:25:42.002
Well, I hope you can support me. You're not running for anything else ever again.

02:25:42.522 --> 02:25:46.302
And no, I can tell you, whatever talking to the man, whatever it means,

02:25:46.402 --> 02:25:50.462
he'll never support you for anything else because you took away his daughter.

02:25:51.422 --> 02:25:56.562
There's nothing you could say to tell that man to support you. Nothing.

02:25:57.402 --> 02:26:00.302
Because you took away his daughter and you lied on her.

02:26:01.602 --> 02:26:06.302
So don't even worry about that at night anymore. Don't even think about that.

02:26:06.562 --> 02:26:09.322
He's not on your team anymore. Right?

02:26:09.962 --> 02:26:11.602
Because I wouldn't. Right?

02:26:13.118 --> 02:26:18.938
That to my child. Now, that's it. He tried to tell me. I didn't want to listen.

02:26:19.478 --> 02:26:22.018
Now I've lost my child. I'm done.

02:26:22.598 --> 02:26:26.898
I'm not Lindsey Graham. I'm not going to move as the wind blows.

02:26:27.618 --> 02:26:30.498
You kill my child. That's the end of the support.

02:26:31.358 --> 02:26:34.938
And my remorse is that I supported you in the first place to put you in a position

02:26:34.938 --> 02:26:36.198
where you would take my child out.

02:26:36.758 --> 02:26:39.538
I would have that guilt for the rest of my life.

02:26:40.998 --> 02:26:45.798
So for the rest of y'all that still, I don't know why you're listening to my

02:26:45.798 --> 02:26:53.538
podcast, but if you are and you still support this bed, just beware because

02:26:53.538 --> 02:26:55.218
the next child could be yours.

02:26:56.878 --> 02:27:02.698
Because if they get what they want and they run all of us out of the country, who's left?

02:27:03.398 --> 02:27:09.218
And you think just because you're white, that's going to protect you? No. It's not.

02:27:09.838 --> 02:27:11.978
That's not how authoritarians operate.

02:27:13.178 --> 02:27:17.618
Everybody must bend the knee. If you raise up just a little bit,

02:27:17.678 --> 02:27:20.898
your problem has to be total subservience.

02:27:21.838 --> 02:27:27.038
Slavery, even. And America is not built like that. Never has been, never will be.

02:27:28.978 --> 02:27:36.498
Everybody has fought the system in one way or another. That's the American way. so.

02:27:38.538 --> 02:27:43.558
November 3rd 2026 is coming I need y'all to get out and vote accordingly.

02:27:46.020 --> 02:27:50.820
And we'll see how that goes from there. But please stop voting in people like

02:27:50.820 --> 02:27:55.140
Donald Trump and Troy Nels and J.D. Vance. Just stop voting for these people.

02:27:55.600 --> 02:27:58.300
Just stop. They don't care about you.

02:27:58.820 --> 02:28:05.080
All they care about is power and prestige and money.

02:28:05.900 --> 02:28:10.520
You have to vote for American leaders. Now, if you can find an American leader

02:28:10.520 --> 02:28:12.120
in the Republican Party, okay.

02:28:12.120 --> 02:28:17.680
It has to be somebody new because the ones up there, I mean,

02:28:17.780 --> 02:28:24.960
we got people that were questioning a prosecutor who have a criminal record.

02:28:25.640 --> 02:28:28.120
Dan Issa, you got pardoned.

02:28:29.460 --> 02:28:32.880
You're not innocent. You got pardoned. I'm just saying.

02:28:36.060 --> 02:28:40.180
Let's do better, y'all. Let's fight for the nation that we want.

02:28:40.180 --> 02:28:46.560
This is the 250th anniversary of us declaring our independence from an empire.

02:28:47.080 --> 02:28:49.180
Let's not keep supporting a new one.

02:28:49.720 --> 02:28:53.440
Thank y'all for listening. Until next time. Thank you.