Addiction, Advocacy & Afrofuturism Featuring Erica Kent, Aaron Bos-Lun and Ke’Aun Charles

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Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.

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Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

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The following program is hosted by the NVG Podcast Network.

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Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.

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So today, I have three guests and very diverse group of folks.

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The first one is Erica Kent. She has written this book, a fictional novel called Black Dog,

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and it deals with a very, very heavy subject, but she did it in such a way where.

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You won't feel sad when you read the book or it won't hit you hard emotionally.

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It's beautifully written. It's a great story, but it does deal with the heavy

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subject of drug addiction.

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So we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk to Erin Boslin.

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Aaron is the executive director of a group called Men for Choice.

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And I've been trying to get Aaron on, and we've had to have some scheduling on my end and his end.

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But we finally got together, and so he's going to talk about the importance

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of men being in the reproductive rights fight.

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And then I've got this young brother named Keon Charles.

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Keon is primarily, I've known him as a writer, where he has written some incredible

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articles about our relationship with Africa.

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When I say our, I mean the United States, and his viewpoints on that.

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And he wrote another piece about Black Power that we're going to touch on in the interview.

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But he is what we call and he's part of this group of Afro futurists that are out there and.

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That's a subject where a lot of young progressive thinkers, it started off kind

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of in the sci-fi genre and has evolved now into other cultural aspects,

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even politics and technology.

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But yeah, so I hope that you, it's an interesting topic and I hope that you

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gleaned something from that interview as well.

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It was really fun talking to all three of them.

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And I hope that you have the same experience that I had just listening to them.

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If you like what you're hearing, if you like everything that we're doing on

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the podcast, please, please, please go to www.momenteric.com.

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They reviews, you know, the five stars, the, you know, donations,

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either one time or subscribe, just whatever you can do to support the podcast.

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It would be greatly, greatly appreciated. But most importantly,

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I am really, really glad that you are listening to the podcast and spread the word as we go.

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All right, since we've got all these guests, let's go ahead and kick the show

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off. And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.

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Thanks, Eric. The NAACP joined the legal team for Nolan Wells' family,

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seeking a thorough investigation and more transparency into the teen's death in Mississippi.

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The U.S. Supreme Court temporarily allowed President Trump's White House ballroom

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construction to continue by granting an administrative stay while related litigation proceeds.

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Navy leaders are considering renaming a carrier being built to honor Black World

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War II sailor Doris Miller after President Trump.

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The Pentagon fired the Stars and Stripes editor-in-chief and dismissed its publisher

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after they criticized potential Defense Department censorship.

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State Representative Angie Nixon won Florida's Democratic U.S.

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Senate primary, defeating Alex Vindman, and will face Republican Senator Ashley Moody in November.

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David Jolly won the Democratic nomination for Florida governor and will run

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against Representative Byron Donalds to replace term-limited Governor Ron DeSantis.

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Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz won Florida's newly redrawn 20th District

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Democratic primary, defeating Black candidates who criticized her choice to

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run in a historically Black district.

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A Texas federal judge ruled that Biden-era ghost gun regulations are unconstitutional,

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citing Second Amendment violations and vagueness under due process.

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In Alaska, Democrat Mary Peltola and Republican Senator Dan Sullivan both advanced

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to the general election in a race that many believe will decide the majority

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in the United States Senate.

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A federal appeals court ruled the Justice Department cannot enforce subpoenas

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targeting information about cases by New York Attorney General Letitia James

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due to unlawful appointment of a Trump ally.

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Ayesha Wahab won a special House election in California, taking the seat formerly

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held by Eric Swalwell, while the FBI raided Swalwell's home amid a sexual misconduct investigation.

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And the CDC reported 15,716 confirmed cyclosporiasis cases across 47 states,

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including 828 hospitalizations and two deaths, with more cases under investigation.

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I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

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All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for my guest, Erica Kent.

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Erica Kent is a winner of the Santa Fe Writers Project Literary Awards Program.

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She holds an MFA for Vermont College of Fine Arts.

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Her work has appeared in Story Quarterly, The Brooklyn Rail,

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Conium Review, among other publications.

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She is the recipient of scholarships from Marilyn Moss Rockefeller and James

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S. Rockefeller Jr., IOTA Short Forms, Maine Writers and Publishers Alliance,

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and the Vermont College of Fine Arts.

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She lives in Portland, Maine with her family and Chunky Bulldog.

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Her debut novel, Black Dog, was published by Santa Fe Writers Project on August

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4th, 2026, and that's what we'll be talking about in the interview.

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So, ladies and gentlemen, this is my distinct honor and privilege to have as

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a guest on this podcast, Erica Kent.

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All right. Erica Kent, how are you doing?

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I'm good. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm really honored to talk to you. Now, I am not a guy.

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I'm just going to be honest. I don't do a whole lot of fictional authors on

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this podcast because I get into politics a lot and all that.

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But when there is a book that's presented to me that deals with a topic that

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we should be discussing in politics, then, you know, I think we need to have you on.

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And so this book called Black Dog, I think, definitely falls into that category.

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Now, if it was like a harlequin romance, yeah, no, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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But as we get into it, I think the listeners will understand why I'm honored to have you on.

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So let's go ahead and start with the icebreakers.

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I do a couple of them. The first one is a quote I want you to respond to.

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And the quote is, but that's what I love about books.

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All that shit doesn't matter. When you meet a character, you recognize a character

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has always been a part of you. You just didn't know it.

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Hmm. Yeah.

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I think that's absolutely true.

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I mean, I'm a big fiction reader. I do read some.

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I do read the news a bit, although I take little breaks because it's really tough these days.

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Yeah, I think that's the beauty of reading and of fiction in particular is fostering empathy,

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you know, being able to put yourself in other people's shoes,

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being able to understand situations that you probably will never encounter in your own life.

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And Jessica, the main character in the book, is somebody that basically literature and a few other things,

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save her from herself, save her from addiction and active addiction.

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And so I think it's one of my favorite things.

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As a teacher, it was one of my favorite things when you see a student or you

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see a person connect with a book in a meaningful way, a story.

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And the circumstances don't matter. You know, you can be...

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Hundreds of years later, earlier, you know,

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you can basically meet someone on the page who isn't you but reflects part of

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you or reflects part of you that you sense is there but you don't really know.

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Yeah, yeah. Because a perfect example of that is when she said that she was

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referring to, I think, it was a character out of The Great Gatsby, I believe.

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Nick Carraway, yeah. Yeah, okay.

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All right. So now the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.

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Okay. So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.

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Seven. All right. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,

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current events, health, etc.?

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I have a digital subscription to The Times. I look in at that.

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And, you know, in terms of being informed, I look at the Atlantic,

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I look at the New Yorker, but it's a pretty small little liberal bubble.

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I'm not going to pretend that it isn't. I mean, I don't claim to have a broader

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perspective. I don't watch Fox News. I don't engage with a more conservative point of view.

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So it's, you know, it's within my scope. I understand.

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All right. Of all the subjects an English teacher could write a fiction novel

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about, why a book about drug addiction?

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Well, I experienced, I have my own experience with addiction from an early age

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and getting sober around age 20, which is in some ways an absurdly early age to,

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get sober. But for me, that was important.

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And also as a teacher, encountering lots and lots of substance abuse with kids

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and talking to them about it, noticing it.

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I mean, I think one thing that was a little different about me as a teacher was noticing things.

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It always amazed me when teachers didn't notice a student having a hard time

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or a student having red, blurry eyes or, you know, sort of sauntering in into

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the room, being a little blurry.

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I guess being an addict myself, I recognize those things. And so,

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you know, there is a cliche of write what you know.

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And I think for a first book, it's not a thinly veiled autobiography,

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but I am writing about stuff I know, teenagers and drug abuse and so forth. Gotcha.

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What is the significance of the title, Black Dog?

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Well, the black dog is kind of the embodiment of addiction. And it's a reference to,

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you know, Winston Churchill, who didn't coin the phrase originally,

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but this idea of the black dog following him around, his depression.

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And so I took that idea of depression and sort of melded it into addiction.

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And addiction, of course, depression often goes hand in hand with addiction.

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But something that embodies addiction that tracks you and that doesn't ultimately

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die. It's not something that you can get rid of.

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You know, you can get sober, you can modify your behavior, you can do all kinds

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of things that you couldn't do while using or drinking.

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But the black dog is there to stay And you have to learn to live with that And

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not in a downbeat crazy bad way But in a mode of acceptance Yeah,

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Why was Boston the perfect backdrop for this story?

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Again, I know Boston well. I grew up, part of my adolescence was spent there

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in Brookline, which was, we lived near Fenway Park, which was kind of cool.

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And so I know that city really well.

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I think I have a somewhat romanticized version of it from my adolescence that

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I wanted to recreate on the page.

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I wanted to recreate specifically that time period of the 80s and in Boston

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specifically, knowing it and having a clear reference point.

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And it's just a city I love. You know, I've lived in Portland,

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Maine since 1998, but I definitely miss Boston.

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I will always consider it my home.

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Yeah, and I get that. But it seems like part of an undercurrent of the story

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was that if you got away from Boston, you were OK.

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If you went back to Boston, you were going to run into some of the same demons,

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the black dog, if you will, that that was leading to the addiction and all that kind of stuff.

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Was that intentional or is just the way that the story kind of framed out?

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I think it's the way this story framed out more than sort of like Boston itself.

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I mean, Alston, which is an area of outer Boston, was sort of the real problematic

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gritty area, and that is a pretty gritty area.

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So that's sort of more of the dangerous area, if you will.

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But, yeah, I think that has more to do with the story than sort of embodying

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the problem or embodying the addiction. I got you.

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Because the young man, Dean, that was like the big thing. He ran off to Vermont.

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And it was like the dad said, you're going to Vermont, too? She was like,

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I might. You know what I'm saying? It was like. Yeah.

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Yeah, it was kind of like Vermont was like this oasis compared to where they

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were, but I feel you on that.

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How do you want the readers to perceive Jessica, who is the protagonist of her?

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I think, you know, I have a lot of empathy with Jessica, and I would want readers

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to perceive her as having a sense of humor, albeit a dark sense of humor,

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that she's resilient and that she doesn't feel sorry for herself.

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She's in pain, but she also recognizes her situation as being relatively cushy, you know.

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She's growing up in a—she's not growing up in, like, I'd say solid middle class,

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maybe hedging to or for middle class.

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So she's aware of her privilege, but she's also caught in something that's bigger

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than her. So I would want readers to be patient with her and to,

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I guess, appreciate her, love her if possible.

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Yeah, because she, I think that's right. She never came across as,

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I mean, she had some issues as far as, you know, her self-esteem to a degree.

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Sure. But she never came across like.

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I got to do this thing. You know what I'm saying? It's something I like.

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It's something I've accepted as a part of me.

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I mean, I had my first beer when I was 11. You know, I'm just,

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it's just the way I grew up, you know?

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And, and, and so, you know, now I've gotten to a point where I might need to get away from that.

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You know what I'm saying? It's never, it was never like, it never came across

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to me like a lot of those stories where it's like, you know,

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you went all the way down and then you came all the way back up.

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It was just kind of like, I'm dealing with this addiction and I know it's a

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part of my life and I've had some opportunities to get out and I didn't do it.

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So when I decide to get to that level, when I make that decision to do it.

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Even though she was still kind of forced, but nonetheless, even when it got

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to that point, And she said, okay, this is my life now.

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I'm not doing this anymore. So, and that's a little different than a lot of

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stories when people try to, because it's almost like the reefer madness effect.

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I don't know if you ever watched that movie.

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They just want to go to the ultimate extreme, you know, or like my friend at

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South Park, what's the teacher's name? Drugs is bad, okay?

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It's just, it didn't go there. You know what I'm saying? It was just like everybody

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dealt with the reality of it and she dealt with it to me to some kind of maturity,

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which leads me to my next question.

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Would you feel comfortable with your book being categorized as a coming of age story?

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Yeah. I mean, that's what I think generally it falls into.

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But I also wanted to avoid what you were talking about, where it was all terrible

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and then all amazing, because I think that trajectory as an.

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Addiction story is kind of played out and also misses a lot,

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misses a lot of gray area.

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Because, I mean, she's a kid when she, and hopefully, you know,

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as a kid, you're going to be in the throes of joy a fair amount.

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And I think she is. But she also, addiction is one of those things that doesn't

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discriminate against, you know, social class or, you know, sexual preference

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or religious affiliation.

00:20:45.370 --> 00:20:52.608
I mean, it just, if it gets you, it gets you. And she grows up with an active alcoholic, so...

00:20:53.588 --> 00:20:58.669
Yeah, I mean, coming of age, I guess that could be for some people perceived

00:20:58.669 --> 00:21:02.429
as kind of a stereotype or kind of cliche, but I don't see it that way.

00:21:02.429 --> 00:21:06.739
I think it's some of the great books for me are coming of age books,

00:21:07.030 --> 00:21:11.909
you know, To Kill a Mockingbird, for example, is a coming of age book.

00:21:11.909 --> 00:21:17.904
And I could read that book, you know, every year and not be tired of it.

00:21:18.699 --> 00:21:22.489
Yeah, because when a lot of times when we say coming-of-age stories,

00:21:22.489 --> 00:21:27.017
I'm of the generation, you know, we had the after-school specials, right?

00:21:27.399 --> 00:21:31.859
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and you're trying to tell this, you know,

00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:35.981
important story, put this important lesson out there in about 30 minutes.

00:21:37.179 --> 00:21:44.079
Right. And, you know, and so, or even movies, I call them after-school movies. Yeah, yeah.

00:21:44.999 --> 00:21:48.719
Like Gina and the Plastic Bubble, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

00:21:48.719 --> 00:21:52.339
Oh, boy in the plastic bubble. I said, Gina. Boy in the plastic bubble.

00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:53.813
Yeah. Cause the girl's name was Gina.

00:21:54.010 --> 00:21:58.149
I actually named my dog Gina because of that, that, that movie.

00:21:58.149 --> 00:22:02.329
Cause I, John Travolta. Yeah. John Travolta going, Gina, what'd you run away

00:22:02.329 --> 00:22:06.983
for? Come back. You know, I just, I said, I'm gonna name my dog after that.

00:22:08.690 --> 00:22:13.047
Yeah. But I mean, but the, but the point was, yeah, it wasn't,

00:22:13.678 --> 00:22:19.339
you know, It was Hollywood because it was like when we dealt with those kind

00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.709
of situations in real life, it wasn't that smooth.

00:22:22.709 --> 00:22:26.519
You know what I'm saying? You wish you could have gotten that in a half hour.

00:22:28.099 --> 00:22:31.529
That's why I wanted to ask you that question because...

00:22:32.444 --> 00:22:37.547
You know, you're telling a story, but then, of course, people try to put stories in boxes.

00:22:38.081 --> 00:22:44.559
And so I didn't know, even though it's not your typical coming of age story,

00:22:45.643 --> 00:22:47.454
it's a little more gritty than that.

00:22:47.716 --> 00:22:52.713
But for her, it was a coming of age to me. That's the way I looked at it.

00:22:53.614 --> 00:22:59.553
I just want to throw in one thing with that before I forget,

00:22:59.553 --> 00:23:00.795
because I'm so forgetful.

00:23:01.201 --> 00:23:07.913
I think what you were alluding to was a lack of moral judgment in the book.

00:23:07.913 --> 00:23:10.624
And so I think that's really important in general.

00:23:11.499 --> 00:23:15.723
There's not this sort of like, and that can be really like after school special

00:23:15.723 --> 00:23:21.603
kind of cliche of like, drugs are bad, and you're bad, and then you become good

00:23:21.603 --> 00:23:25.423
when you, you know, and I think a lot of moralizing can take place.

00:23:25.423 --> 00:23:31.713
And that's I've never found that to be helpful with this issue with kids or whatever I,

00:23:32.693 --> 00:23:37.113
I've never found sort of moralizing about something and yes bad things happen

00:23:37.113 --> 00:23:41.282
people do bad stuff especially when they're drinking and using but.

00:23:42.467 --> 00:23:48.045
Morality, it's a disease, and morality is something else that's not,

00:23:48.659 --> 00:23:55.381
you know, linked into addiction in the way that a lot of people perceive it to be. Yeah, yeah.

00:23:56.166 --> 00:24:05.298
Explain how current historical events impact us even without us knowing or acknowledging it immediately.

00:24:06.060 --> 00:24:13.753
I mean, I think that generationally, you know, I'm 57, and so I'm the same age

00:24:13.753 --> 00:24:16.544
as Jessica when she's experiencing the 80s.

00:24:17.088 --> 00:24:23.142
And I think that Lennon's death at the beginning of the book was a real cultural marker,

00:24:23.916 --> 00:24:28.723
and not obviously in the same way as like Kennedy's assassination or the attempt

00:24:28.723 --> 00:24:35.413
on Ronald Reagan's life, you know, But something that definitely sort of hearkened.

00:24:36.944 --> 00:24:41.798
A beginning of a very different decade than the 70s, in my mind.

00:24:42.818 --> 00:24:47.063
And it's easy to make generalizations about that. But I think those kind of

00:24:47.063 --> 00:24:52.783
events are baked into where you are, particularly when you're a child,

00:24:52.783 --> 00:24:57.313
I think, and you're not necessarily aware of them. You might be fleetingly aware of them.

00:24:57.690 --> 00:25:04.853
So when the Space Challenger blew up, I remember that, and I remember that because

00:25:04.853 --> 00:25:08.813
of, not because I was in kindergarten, like the kids watching it,

00:25:09.356 --> 00:25:15.643
or some of the kids watching it, but from realizing that sort of kid-like perspective

00:25:15.643 --> 00:25:22.546
of, oh, wow, things happen that are so big, that are so out of my control. I don't even know.

00:25:23.247 --> 00:25:28.411
How to attempt to respond to them. And so I think those events that are sprinkled

00:25:28.411 --> 00:25:33.001
in the book are kind of reflective of that time that they're happening.

00:25:33.001 --> 00:25:40.510
You know, smaller picture is her story, and then the larger picture is culturally what's happening.

00:25:41.050 --> 00:25:45.651
And then a book is mentioned every year as a book that has been published,

00:25:45.651 --> 00:25:51.361
which is just my way of paying homage to those books. Yeah, yeah.

00:25:52.191 --> 00:25:56.821
That was pretty cool how you did that. I just, you know, I think I got my news

00:25:56.821 --> 00:26:01.688
about John Lennon like millions of other people. I was watching Monday Night Football.

00:26:02.247 --> 00:26:06.642
Yeah. I can't remember who. And that's scary. I can't remember who was playing.

00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:11.651
Yeah. I looked that up. But I remember Howard Cosell interrupting the broadcast.

00:26:12.646 --> 00:26:18.491
And if only Howard Cosell does, you know, he said, John Lennon is dead.

00:26:20.071 --> 00:26:23.892
You know he was sitting there like going and you know being young i was like

00:26:24.169 --> 00:26:28.408
the beatles guy somebody shot the beatles you know that was my mindset really,

00:26:29.052 --> 00:26:37.324
you know and um and so yeah so yeah you're right that that placed a marker growing up in chicago.

00:26:38.869 --> 00:26:44.481
The marker would have been even though i had left to go to college the marker

00:26:44.481 --> 00:26:50.021
i think in chicago was when this basketball player benjamin wilson died we called him benjamin,

00:26:50.686 --> 00:26:55.881
it was like at at that point growing up in chicago everybody thinks you know

00:26:55.881 --> 00:27:00.641
the gangs and all that stuff it was like the if you had a left hand and a right

00:27:00.641 --> 00:27:02.099
hand you could make it in chicago,

00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:08.597
growing up so it's like when benzy got shot and killed it was like,

00:27:09.356 --> 00:27:13.752
It's gone to a different level. And that point is when all the homicides and

00:27:13.752 --> 00:27:18.388
all that stuff escalated, even though his shooting was not gang related.

00:27:18.939 --> 00:27:23.229
It was just kind of like if he can get shot, all of us are vulnerable.

00:27:23.601 --> 00:27:29.342
You know what I'm saying? Right. And so that was kind of my equivalent to if

00:27:29.342 --> 00:27:33.622
I was in the situation that Jessica was in, that might have been my moment to

00:27:33.622 --> 00:27:35.503
drink that first beer. You know what I'm saying?

00:27:36.113 --> 00:27:42.062
So, yeah, that's that's. But so that's why I wanted to phrase the question away,

00:27:42.062 --> 00:27:47.862
because you do like mark each chapter as a year and you highlight certain people

00:27:47.862 --> 00:27:49.499
and certain things and books.

00:27:50.062 --> 00:27:53.725
So that's why I wanted to incorporate that in question. Now,

00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:57.832
you kind of touched on this earlier, but I'm going back to it.

00:27:57.832 --> 00:28:03.181
Should teachers be engaged with students like Mr. Ryer engaged with Jessica?

00:28:04.339 --> 00:28:10.992
I think it depends. I think it can be a little tricky as a teacher because you're

00:28:10.992 --> 00:28:13.972
dealing with administrators and you're dealing with parents.

00:28:13.972 --> 00:28:18.242
So you're dealing with adults, and adults tend to be pretty unpredictable,

00:28:18.242 --> 00:28:22.047
whereas kids are fairly predictable, in my mind, in a good way.

00:28:22.937 --> 00:28:30.971
So it's, I always found it important to relay to kids that they were seen,

00:28:31.453 --> 00:28:35.041
that they were seen and that they could come talk to me.

00:28:36.538 --> 00:28:42.182
And I would be open and judgment free as much as I could be.

00:28:42.182 --> 00:28:45.937
I mean, I'm not, you know, 100% judgment free, obviously, but.

00:28:47.145 --> 00:28:51.855
So I think that that, I think going around and trying to save everybody doesn't

00:28:51.855 --> 00:28:57.103
work. But if you, I would often see, I'll give you an example.

00:28:57.414 --> 00:29:05.065
There was a kid I had who lost his mother and he was just really fragile.

00:29:05.303 --> 00:29:10.675
And a kid that you could tell was smoking pot and just kind of medicating himself

00:29:10.675 --> 00:29:12.820
and trying to deal and get through the day.

00:29:13.302 --> 00:29:19.085
And so I had a little library. Mr. Ryrie has a library. I had a little library

00:29:19.085 --> 00:29:22.335
and I said, why don't you find a book that you like?

00:29:22.788 --> 00:29:26.445
And he's like, I don't like books. And I said, well, just look at them,

00:29:26.596 --> 00:29:32.108
pick them up, check them out, you know, and he picked out The Hobbit.

00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:37.479
And started reading it. And at first he was a little bit, you know,

00:29:37.479 --> 00:29:41.829
it was a little bit tricky for him, but he started reading it and then he got

00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:43.589
addicted to it, you know?

00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:49.369
And so he would come in and go to the back of my room where I had beanbags and

00:29:49.369 --> 00:29:52.769
stuff for kids. And even when I was teaching a different class,

00:29:52.769 --> 00:29:55.659
he would come in and he would just sort of read his book.

00:29:55.979 --> 00:29:59.658
And then he began to read more and more Tolkien books.

00:30:00.447 --> 00:30:04.849
And it was great to see him. He just needed a reprieve. He just needed like

00:30:04.849 --> 00:30:10.479
a break from his everyday, you know, here I am, my mom is dead,

00:30:10.479 --> 00:30:13.047
15 years old, I don't know what I'm doing.

00:30:14.012 --> 00:30:18.909
And so, yeah, I think in those situations, if you're in the right place at the

00:30:18.909 --> 00:30:22.342
right time, you can make a big difference for the kid.

00:30:22.731 --> 00:30:26.986
Just being a trustworthy adult who doesn't automatically say,

00:30:27.462 --> 00:30:32.054
you know, you're doing this and you're doing that and this is bad and this is, you know, like that.

00:30:32.747 --> 00:30:37.234
I think you're kind of missing the point if you're always pointing a finger at a kid.

00:30:37.840 --> 00:30:43.581
Yeah. And you have to really be in tune with your class.

00:30:44.127 --> 00:30:47.969
Now, the way that classes are structured now, it's like if you've got more than

00:30:47.969 --> 00:30:51.509
30 kids in a class it's kind of hard to do that i think,

00:30:52.316 --> 00:30:58.549
yeah the brief time that i did teach i was at a basically a private school so

00:30:58.549 --> 00:31:03.144
i had very small and i was able to like the kids that were really really taking off,

00:31:03.761 --> 00:31:08.926
it's like i get you on this extra credit track you know i'm saying,

00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:14.669
give you something to do whereas the kid that was like falling behind it's like

00:31:14.669 --> 00:31:19.079
look do we need to talk to the counselor do we need to get the parent up here,

00:31:19.539 --> 00:31:21.811
we need to have a conversation about what's going on,

00:31:22.572 --> 00:31:25.359
rather than quote-unquote punishing the child and then.

00:31:26.326 --> 00:31:30.929
You know the ones that you could see that were just right there yeah right there

00:31:30.929 --> 00:31:36.565
it's like if you just give them that little positive encouragement they're gonna do things i i have,

00:31:37.529 --> 00:31:42.776
one parent who was a fellow teacher at the school and I had her son,

00:31:43.414 --> 00:31:50.281
and every time she sees me it's been years years almost like 30 years and every

00:31:50.281 --> 00:31:52.887
time she sees me she said I will never forget,

00:31:53.515 --> 00:31:59.131
how you challenged my son and I will always appreciate that you know what I'm saying and yeah,

00:31:59.848 --> 00:32:01.427
that's why I.

00:32:02.848 --> 00:32:06.831
But even the way that you did it in the book wasn't over the top it wasn't like

00:32:07.251 --> 00:32:08.721
Like, oh, like My Fair Lady kind of thing.

00:32:08.721 --> 00:32:12.911
It was just like, you know what I'm saying? Here, read this book.

00:32:12.911 --> 00:32:16.721
And he saw how Jessica was attached to that Gatsby book. She said,

00:32:16.721 --> 00:32:18.961
well, you know, I got this whole shelf back here.

00:32:18.971 --> 00:32:23.108
Just knock yourself out. And she took advantage of that, you know? Yeah.

00:32:24.791 --> 00:32:30.741
But, yeah, I feel that. All right, so now I got to ask you a political question

00:32:30.741 --> 00:32:32.103
because this is a political show.

00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:38.378
And this is an election year. So my political question to you is,

00:32:39.011 --> 00:32:40.891
what would you like to see public

00:32:40.891 --> 00:32:46.786
policy-wise to address youth drug addiction? That's a good question.

00:32:47.542 --> 00:32:54.481
I think one thing is, it's amazing to me how there's still a stigma around addiction

00:32:54.481 --> 00:32:59.191
and still a stigma around kids and addiction.

00:32:59.191 --> 00:33:07.671
And sort of this ability to kind of cordon off people, you know, sort of like the,

00:33:08.371 --> 00:33:15.041
addiction truly exists among poor people in, you know, middle America who are

00:33:15.041 --> 00:33:16.911
struggling and there's, you

00:33:16.911 --> 00:33:21.831
know, there's fentanyl and there's overdoses and that's like over there.

00:33:21.831 --> 00:33:28.191
That's contained. And I think I'm not a public policy person,

00:33:28.191 --> 00:33:32.924
so I'm going to answer this in somewhat of a naive fashion, I suppose.

00:33:33.942 --> 00:33:39.211
But I think being open and being honest about it and being on the ground with

00:33:39.211 --> 00:33:45.099
it, you know, like not thinking of always thinking of numbers,

00:33:45.697 --> 00:33:49.729
and supporting, putting support behind treatment.

00:33:50.147 --> 00:33:55.391
And because, you know, you can be cynical and say, well, you know,

00:33:55.391 --> 00:33:58.971
people only change when they want to change and da-da-da-da-da.

00:33:58.971 --> 00:34:04.311
But, for example, in Portland here, there's a recovery community center that

00:34:04.311 --> 00:34:09.241
does a lot of really good work, but they're always struggling financially because

00:34:09.241 --> 00:34:12.521
money isn't put into that kind of thing.

00:34:12.521 --> 00:34:17.191
And they're doing okay, but it's, you can tell that,

00:34:18.160 --> 00:34:23.361
I mean, it's just absurd to me that where wealth is distributed and addiction

00:34:23.361 --> 00:34:30.131
and services is an area that just people would rather turn away and pretend

00:34:30.131 --> 00:34:32.880
doesn't exist. I think, unfortunately.

00:34:33.856 --> 00:34:43.111
So money and attention and people talking about it is risky for politicians,

00:34:43.465 --> 00:34:45.485
you know? It's like you—it.

00:34:48.213 --> 00:34:54.121
Baffles me and it saddens me how much people don't talk about when they're in

00:34:54.121 --> 00:34:57.594
the public eye because they know how it's going to be perceived,

00:34:58.198 --> 00:35:02.412
especially now in our climate. which is just insane.

00:35:03.045 --> 00:35:06.482
I mean, the lunatics are truly running the asylum right now.

00:35:06.964 --> 00:35:09.094
And I don't know, man. I...

00:35:11.130 --> 00:35:16.239
I'm glad I don't have to teach history because I would not be able to teach

00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:18.659
it in any way objectively.

00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:25.489
I would just want to spout things off. And I remember I had a neoconservative

00:35:25.489 --> 00:35:29.855
student who I liked a lot, but we just didn't touch on politics.

00:35:30.418 --> 00:35:35.409
You know, I mean, I just didn't want to. And he was very well spoken and he

00:35:35.409 --> 00:35:39.857
was respectful and everything, but his ideology was just beyond me.

00:35:40.756 --> 00:35:46.702
Yeah. Well, you know, there's, I mean, I encountered that in my regular job,

00:35:47.739 --> 00:35:52.575
you know, and I just, and I'm somebody that's been in the public arena.

00:35:53.248 --> 00:35:58.439
Yeah. And I still, you know, in certain environments, you know,

00:35:58.999 --> 00:36:02.837
when to talk about something, when not to or that kind of thing.

00:36:03.879 --> 00:36:09.779
I think the biggest problem we have in addressing issues is forgetting.

00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.056
And you mentioned the word earlier, empathy.

00:36:14.623 --> 00:36:18.733
And humanizing people. And normally, when I come to this part of the interview,

00:36:18.733 --> 00:36:26.266
I always ask what authors were trying to, you know, what do you want readers to get out of the book?

00:36:26.886 --> 00:36:34.143
And I just instead of asking you that I want to commend you because the humanization

00:36:34.143 --> 00:36:38.102
of Jessica is is so important to me in the book,

00:36:39.423 --> 00:36:44.803
the fact that she is still a normal teenager even though she's dealing with

00:36:44.803 --> 00:36:50.733
this addiction she's got crushes on people she she she you know I don't want

00:36:50.733 --> 00:36:53.703
to hang out with this person I think this girl is cool you know what I'm saying?

00:36:53.703 --> 00:36:58.272
Just all the basic stuff that teenagers are dealing with, she's dealing with it.

00:36:58.804 --> 00:37:02.990
But there's this black dog that's part of her life too.

00:37:03.512 --> 00:37:09.313
And so that's the thing I think when it comes to addressing issues is that we

00:37:09.313 --> 00:37:11.814
forget how to humanize it.

00:37:12.607 --> 00:37:16.803
And I think that's why we're in this position now, because when we look at somebody,

00:37:17.418 --> 00:37:21.123
that's not of the same political party or,

00:37:21.777 --> 00:37:24.683
they're going through some stuff, whether they're homeless, whether they're

00:37:24.683 --> 00:37:28.970
going through addiction, whether they're going through mental illness, anything like that.

00:37:29.768 --> 00:37:34.043
It's because there's a block in our mind. We create stigmas because we take

00:37:34.043 --> 00:37:36.153
away the humanity of people.

00:37:37.643 --> 00:37:44.463
And so I think if we got back to, now we may not do things like in Portland,

00:37:44.463 --> 00:37:47.393
Maine, or we may not do things like in San Francisco, California,

00:37:47.393 --> 00:37:51.641
or however, you know, Charleston, West Virginia,

00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:56.843
everybody's going to have to address it the way they need to address it in their particular areas.

00:37:56.843 --> 00:38:03.036
But I think if you come from a place of humanity, we can figure this stuff out.

00:38:03.228 --> 00:38:05.127
So anyway, all right, that's my speech.

00:38:06.543 --> 00:38:08.923
I always got to get a speech in with my guests at some point.

00:38:09.789 --> 00:38:13.056
Finish this sentence. I have hope because...

00:38:14.153 --> 00:38:18.966
I have hope because kids, I mean, it's cliche, but I have a 20-year-old daughter and,

00:38:19.906 --> 00:38:27.557
I see sort of how far we've come in terms of attitudes towards sexual orientation,

00:38:28.051 --> 00:38:32.736
and gender and kindness, acceptance.

00:38:32.736 --> 00:38:39.017
I see growth in her and her friends, and that encourages me.

00:38:39.569 --> 00:38:45.866
It encourages me that people still care and that there are a number of people

00:38:45.866 --> 00:38:52.546
who are involved and keeping their hope alive, you know, just,

00:38:53.126 --> 00:38:55.926
I mean, like you said, you are an example.

00:38:55.926 --> 00:39:04.331
I mean, keeping humanity at the forefront and trying to foster humanity is hopeful to me.

00:39:04.918 --> 00:39:11.996
Creativity is hopeful to me. Expression, going to see movies and art and dance

00:39:11.996 --> 00:39:16.646
and all kinds of things where people aren't, it's out of a political arena.

00:39:16.646 --> 00:39:22.076
I mean, you can have political work, obviously, but people are creating,

00:39:22.076 --> 00:39:27.546
people are still creating, and they're still listening to each other, thankfully.

00:39:28.130 --> 00:39:29.506
And I think there's less.

00:39:31.897 --> 00:39:35.936
I think the extremes are smaller. I think our perspective is warped,

00:39:35.936 --> 00:39:40.941
where it's like all extreme, and it's here and it's there. It's completely polarized.

00:39:41.475 --> 00:39:44.806
And that's a sensationalist way of perceiving it, I think.

00:39:46.629 --> 00:39:50.327
There's a lot of common ground among people. And like you said,

00:39:50.752 --> 00:39:54.727
if we can, we're all, I mean, it sounds so obvious, but we're all human.

00:39:55.067 --> 00:40:02.227
Like, we're literally all human. And so we have to be able to connect with each other,

00:40:03.727 --> 00:40:08.747
in order to survive, you know, like in order to keep our species alive,

00:40:08.747 --> 00:40:11.661
we need to connect with each other. And I do see that happening.

00:40:12.126 --> 00:40:18.838
I see the opposite happening, too, but I do see that happening on the ground, thankfully. Yeah.

00:40:19.499 --> 00:40:25.457
All right. So this book just came out. How can people get Black Dog and how

00:40:25.457 --> 00:40:27.022
can people reach out to you?

00:40:28.410 --> 00:40:35.469
Okay, so I have a website. It's E-R-I-C-A, Erica Kent, K-E-N-T.

00:40:35.469 --> 00:40:41.099
So ericakent.com is my website, and you can contact me there,

00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:44.767
and I love to hear from people, from readers.

00:40:44.954 --> 00:40:53.279
It's on sale at Amazon and Bookshop and Barnes & Noble, and it's on sale through

00:40:53.279 --> 00:40:57.978
the publisher, Santa Fe Writers Project. So there's a lot of different ways to get it.

00:40:58.769 --> 00:41:02.800
Yeah. Well, Erica Kent, first of all, thank you for writing a book.

00:41:04.054 --> 00:41:10.313
It is, it's a beautifully written book. Thank you. Especially considering the subject matter.

00:41:11.338 --> 00:41:16.099
You know, it was not, you know, when you get it, it's like, we're going to talk about drug addiction.

00:41:16.099 --> 00:41:18.409
It's like, oh, this is going to be heavy. You know what I'm saying?

00:41:18.409 --> 00:41:22.329
And then it's like, you read it and it's like, huh, that didn't hurt at all.

00:41:22.329 --> 00:41:26.269
That was, that was actually a great story. You know what I'm saying?

00:41:26.269 --> 00:41:33.316
So I appreciate the way that you wrote that. And I encourage everybody to get a copy of it.

00:41:33.989 --> 00:41:37.361
But most importantly, I really, really want to thank you for taking the time,

00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:41.339
to come on the podcast and talk about the book and some other things.

00:41:42.089 --> 00:41:46.680
I'm really honored. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me.

00:41:47.138 --> 00:41:49.652
All right, guys. We're going to catch y'all on the other side.

00:42:09.361 --> 00:42:15.738
All right. And we are back. So now it is time for my next guest, Aaron Bosslund.

00:42:16.314 --> 00:42:22.351
Aaron Bosslund is the executive director of Men for Choice, where he founded

00:42:22.351 --> 00:42:29.056
and expanded the organization's youth fellowship program by over 1,540%,

00:42:29.566 --> 00:42:36.271
making it the centerpiece of Men for Choice's effort to engage passively pro-choice

00:42:36.271 --> 00:42:39.476
men as active allies for reproductive freedom.

00:42:40.037 --> 00:42:44.501
Aaron began his career with AmeriCorps and D.C. public schools before moving

00:42:44.501 --> 00:42:49.641
to Miami for Teach for America, where he was the Florida winner of the Sue Layman

00:42:49.641 --> 00:42:51.177
Excellence in Teaching Award.

00:42:51.547 --> 00:42:56.151
From this experience, he shifted to community organizing, serving as chair of

00:42:56.151 --> 00:43:00.891
Engage Miami, now Florida's largest youth civic engagement group,

00:43:01.378 --> 00:43:07.169
and was honored with the 2024 National Mentorship Award from New Leaders Council.

00:43:07.715 --> 00:43:12.899
In 2025, the Miami New Times recognized Aaron as Best Activist.

00:43:13.578 --> 00:43:18.991
Aaron also serves on the Victory Fund Campaign Board and holds master's degrees

00:43:18.991 --> 00:43:22.042
from the University of Miami and Harvard University.

00:43:22.700 --> 00:43:26.828
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:43:27.054 --> 00:43:30.224
on this podcast, Aaron Balsam.

00:43:41.841 --> 00:43:45.473
All right. Aaron Bosslin, how are you doing? So are you doing good?

00:43:45.856 --> 00:43:47.441
I'm good. Good to be with you, Eric.

00:43:48.061 --> 00:43:51.672
Well, I'm honored to have you on because you caught my attention.

00:43:52.542 --> 00:43:56.925
I noticed there was this organization out there called Men for Choice.

00:43:57.566 --> 00:44:02.251
And I said, oh, I have to get this young man on to talk about that.

00:44:02.878 --> 00:44:07.760
Because as you know, you occupy a pretty unique space in the political conversation.

00:44:08.370 --> 00:44:11.961
So I definitely wanted you to come on and talk about, you know,

00:44:11.961 --> 00:44:13.935
what you are doing in that space.

00:44:14.513 --> 00:44:21.524
But before we get into the meat of the conversation, I do a couple of icebreakers, Aaron.

00:44:22.269 --> 00:44:26.149
So the first icebreaker is a quote I want you to respond to.

00:44:26.468 --> 00:44:32.195
And the quote is, in the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies,

00:44:32.619 --> 00:44:34.400
but the silence of our friends.

00:44:36.634 --> 00:44:41.724
Well, I think that quote basically gets to the heart of what Men for Choice is.

00:44:42.060 --> 00:44:46.401
You know, are we going to be the kinds of guys who sit out attacks on abortion

00:44:46.401 --> 00:44:49.108
rights because it's not our body under attack?

00:44:49.369 --> 00:44:53.391
Or are we going to step up? And if you look at every successful movement,

00:44:53.391 --> 00:44:56.291
the civil rights movement, the labor movement, the women's movement,

00:44:56.291 --> 00:45:00.501
the LGBT movement, none of those groups have the numbers on their own.

00:45:00.501 --> 00:45:03.021
They need friends and allies. And it's one thing to say that.

00:45:03.021 --> 00:45:05.972
It's another thing to do something about it. So I think that quote's about on.

00:45:06.918 --> 00:45:12.340
Okay. All right. So now the next one, icebreaker, is called 20 questions.

00:45:13.257 --> 00:45:16.925
So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.

00:45:19.212 --> 00:45:23.552
Whichever number you want. I pick the number. Let's go with 14.

00:45:24.442 --> 00:45:31.172
Okay. What does the idea of a better world mean to you and what will be different

00:45:31.172 --> 00:45:32.584
than the world that we're in now?

00:45:33.632 --> 00:45:37.602
You know, there's, I think, a simple answer to this and a complex answer.

00:45:37.602 --> 00:45:40.383
I actually think the simple answer says all of it.

00:45:40.808 --> 00:45:43.019
And the simple answer is we treat each other better.

00:45:43.576 --> 00:45:47.352
You know, I think we've gone a little crazy as a country, whether that's,

00:45:47.352 --> 00:45:51.222
you know, customer service when you're trying to deal with an issue with something

00:45:51.222 --> 00:45:55.002
you ordered or if you're trying to get a plane ticket or whatever,

00:45:55.002 --> 00:45:56.131
you know, issue with your internet.

00:45:56.496 --> 00:45:59.692
And we just don't know how to treat each other okay anymore.

00:45:59.692 --> 00:46:01.013
We don't know how to talk to each other.

00:46:01.351 --> 00:46:03.742
People aren't, you know, having the spaces they used to have,

00:46:03.742 --> 00:46:07.048
whether that's in churches or labor unions or wherever it may be.

00:46:07.467 --> 00:46:10.052
People aren't connected to their families in the way they used to be.

00:46:10.432 --> 00:46:14.332
And whatever the other side of this looks like, a better world looks like treating

00:46:14.332 --> 00:46:19.362
each other with more respect, more dignity, thinking about the impact our actions have on other people.

00:46:19.843 --> 00:46:27.352
And I think the more complex answer is how do we have a country where everyone

00:46:27.672 --> 00:46:32.832
can live their lives without others getting in the way of that?

00:46:33.252 --> 00:46:34.612
I used to be a public school teacher.

00:46:35.072 --> 00:46:38.092
Both my parents are teachers. All four of my grandparents were educators.

00:46:38.527 --> 00:46:43.513
So I spent a lot of time in my life thinking about the ways that we make it

00:46:43.948 --> 00:46:47.132
easy or difficult for people to reach their potential.

00:46:47.132 --> 00:46:51.572
And when it comes to the country looking forward, and especially because I work

00:46:51.572 --> 00:46:56.832
with a lot of young men, I don't see young people having a sense of confidence in the future.

00:46:56.832 --> 00:47:00.762
And so how can you have people growing up in this country, and they can get

00:47:00.762 --> 00:47:03.742
the training they need in schools, they can be confident that they'll be able

00:47:03.742 --> 00:47:08.569
to find a job, they'll be confident they'll be able to raise their own family, and that.

00:47:09.277 --> 00:47:12.502
That isn't going to be interrupted or made worse by government.

00:47:12.502 --> 00:47:15.135
If anything, it can be made better.

00:47:16.220 --> 00:47:22.001
Yeah. All right. So what is Men for Choice and why is this organization important?

00:47:22.817 --> 00:47:26.978
Yeah, so Men for Choice was started in Chicago in 2015.

00:47:26.978 --> 00:47:33.218
And the basic idea is to get passively pro-choice men, men who believe that

00:47:33.218 --> 00:47:36.188
everyone should have the freedom to control their own body, that the government

00:47:36.188 --> 00:47:40.510
shouldn't be banning and criminalizing abortion, rather than just,

00:47:41.050 --> 00:47:43.506
believing that to do something about it.

00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:49.258
Because 61% of men in America believe abortion should be legal in all or most

00:47:49.258 --> 00:47:53.252
cases, and virtually none of them are doing anything about it.

00:47:53.565 --> 00:47:57.288
So at the most basic level, it's about getting pro-choice men to get off the

00:47:57.288 --> 00:47:58.901
sidelines and into the fight.

00:47:59.503 --> 00:48:05.708
Why it matters is because with all the craziness happening in the news right

00:48:05.708 --> 00:48:10.408
now, and we're at a you know, new war every couple weeks and prices are out

00:48:10.408 --> 00:48:14.298
of control and whatever drama's coming out of Washington and,

00:48:15.098 --> 00:48:16.741
all the madness we're living through.

00:48:17.234 --> 00:48:22.244
One of the things that I think has fallen off people's radar is just how much...

00:48:23.093 --> 00:48:29.810
Government bans on abortion is affecting women and affecting health care more generally.

00:48:30.141 --> 00:48:35.544
So to give just one statistic, black women are three times more likely to die

00:48:35.544 --> 00:48:37.811
than white women during childbirth.

00:48:38.461 --> 00:48:42.244
And if you look at what's happening in the country, it's not getting media attention

00:48:42.244 --> 00:48:45.224
in the way it was a couple years ago after Roe was overturned.

00:48:45.572 --> 00:48:50.024
But you hear all kinds of stories of women who are having a miscarriage in a

00:48:50.024 --> 00:48:55.394
hospital and denied care because the doctors fear that they could be prosecuted

00:48:55.394 --> 00:48:57.958
criminally because you can't prove after the fact

00:48:58.387 --> 00:49:01.442
that they didn't provide quote-unquote illegal abortion.

00:49:01.802 --> 00:49:05.424
And so, you know, in the state of Georgia, for example, Amber Nicole Thurman

00:49:05.424 --> 00:49:10.279
is a woman who a few years ago was having a relatively simple medical complication,

00:49:10.575 --> 00:49:14.267
was denied medical care, died in an American hospital in Georgia

00:49:14.598 --> 00:49:20.225
because the doctors were afraid to provide her health care because of these anti-abortion laws.

00:49:20.521 --> 00:49:24.274
And so I think most guys, and certainly me too, prior to starting to work with

00:49:24.274 --> 00:49:27.474
Men for Choice six years ago, we might realize that's wrong,

00:49:27.474 --> 00:49:32.374
but it's not something we think about because if it's not your body,

00:49:32.714 --> 00:49:34.854
you're not going to think about it in the same way.

00:49:34.854 --> 00:49:37.844
I'm guessing that unless someone's in a wheelchair, they don't spend a lot of

00:49:37.844 --> 00:49:42.672
time thinking about if there's on ramps to enter a building in a safe and accessible way.

00:49:43.044 --> 00:49:49.324
And so the question becomes, If the majority of men are against what is happening

00:49:49.324 --> 00:49:52.334
with abortion laws, why aren't we doing something about it?

00:49:52.334 --> 00:49:57.024
And even more the case because it's men who are leading the charge to ban and

00:49:57.024 --> 00:50:01.594
criminalize abortion. But the guys on our side are just letting the women endure

00:50:01.594 --> 00:50:03.515
these attacks on their own, and we don't think that's okay.

00:50:06.472 --> 00:50:09.875
Well, you know, any organization that, that starts at a bar,

00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:14.552
I think is, has a potential to, to be great in America.

00:50:15.052 --> 00:50:19.798
I think that's, that's, that's, that's a cool history as far as men's for choices

00:50:19.798 --> 00:50:21.839
concerned, especially the Chicago Tavern.

00:50:22.429 --> 00:50:25.333
So yeah, I think that's pretty cool backstory.

00:50:25.954 --> 00:50:30.208
Yeah. Well, no, and I think so much of, so much I've learned in my time at my

00:50:30.208 --> 00:50:32.448
place is just the importance of people talking with each other.

00:50:32.448 --> 00:50:33.999
You know, we don't talk with each other enough.

00:50:35.270 --> 00:50:41.266
Yeah. What was your personal motivation to become the executive director of this organization?

00:50:42.115 --> 00:50:47.068
Yeah. So, I mean, I got involved in Men for Choice at the end of 2019 when I

00:50:47.068 --> 00:50:51.992
got an email that Men for Choice was going to expand out of Illinois and nationally.

00:50:52.415 --> 00:50:56.418
And what I realized in that moment, and for me, it was just reading the title

00:50:56.418 --> 00:50:58.847
of the email, the name Men for Choice.

00:50:59.468 --> 00:51:04.972
I kind of was like, is this about guys for abortion rights? And I realized that it.

00:51:05.849 --> 00:51:09.894
In that moment in 2019, with the Supreme Court, what it was,

00:51:09.894 --> 00:51:13.174
and I used to be a U.S. history teacher, and I wasn't great at math,

00:51:13.174 --> 00:51:16.763
but I knew enough math to see the five votes at the time that were on the Supreme Court.

00:51:17.146 --> 00:51:21.844
I knew this basic freedom was at risk. And it occurred to me just from that

00:51:21.844 --> 00:51:24.188
email that I wasn't doing anything about it.

00:51:24.536 --> 00:51:28.685
Similarly, Men for Choice, when it was founded in that bar in 2015,

00:51:28.957 --> 00:51:32.940
was because our co-founder sat through a presentation where he learned in seven minutes

00:51:33.311 --> 00:51:37.614
about attacks happening on abortion access at that time in 2015,

00:51:37.614 --> 00:51:39.980
pre-Donald Trump, pre-Roe being overturned.

00:51:40.456 --> 00:51:44.937
And he realized, how do I not know any of this? And how do no guys I know know any of this?

00:51:45.274 --> 00:51:49.054
And so to me, because of my background as a public school teacher,

00:51:49.054 --> 00:51:51.010
being active in my teacher's union.

00:51:51.804 --> 00:51:56.083
Various ways that I had tried to step up and make the community better,

00:51:56.425 --> 00:52:00.976
it felt like an obvious one that I was missing.

00:52:01.289 --> 00:52:05.554
And I've always been very close with my grandma, who is one of those women who

00:52:05.554 --> 00:52:11.364
in the 1960s was studying hard sciences and was the only woman in her classes

00:52:11.364 --> 00:52:12.884
and then became a professor later.

00:52:12.884 --> 00:52:16.264
And the 1990s was the first woman to get tenure in her department.

00:52:16.264 --> 00:52:21.084
And a lot of the older guys had given her a hard time. But as women of her generation

00:52:21.084 --> 00:52:22.477
did, she just kind of pushed through it.

00:52:22.909 --> 00:52:25.364
And I grew up with a pretty simple way of thinking about it,

00:52:25.364 --> 00:52:28.624
which was, my grandma is the coolest person I know.

00:52:29.048 --> 00:52:32.160
How did my grandma get to be the way she was? And so I'd hear these stories

00:52:32.438 --> 00:52:33.714
about the way women used to be

00:52:33.714 --> 00:52:37.854
treated and grew up thinking that that was something we were moving past.

00:52:37.854 --> 00:52:42.414
And so by the time it gets to 2019, in addition to I'm not doing anything on

00:52:42.414 --> 00:52:44.918
this, I thought about my grandma sort of.

00:52:45.771 --> 00:52:49.132
Eyeing the end of her life and the direction we're going as a country.

00:52:49.509 --> 00:52:53.322
And it felt kind of obvious to me that this was one to stand with.

00:52:53.764 --> 00:52:58.349
And then as far as becoming executive director, my background first as a teacher

00:52:58.769 --> 00:53:03.534
and then when I started working in political organizing and campaigns was all about young people.

00:53:03.958 --> 00:53:06.949
And so, like I said, my parents were both teachers and, you know,

00:53:06.949 --> 00:53:11.699
my grandparents as well. And, you know, I grew up, my dad was one of seven in

00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:15.119
one of those houses where there were lots of cousins around.

00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.393
There were lots of family members.

00:53:17.695 --> 00:53:21.416
And my grandpa, who first was a high school teacher and then a college professor,

00:53:21.729 --> 00:53:24.329
you know, there would even be former students who would come by who were still

00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:27.399
in the community and they might join for barbecues on the 4th of July.

00:53:27.399 --> 00:53:32.499
And so I just kind of grew up with this sense that we're supposed to look out

00:53:32.499 --> 00:53:36.449
for each other and a real basic idea that part of the role of older people is

00:53:36.449 --> 00:53:37.446
to support young people.

00:53:37.771 --> 00:53:42.179
And, you know, I was about 30 when I joined Men for Choice staff and I advocated

00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:46.689
for creating a youth fellowship program, which we started with seven guys six years ago.

00:53:47.129 --> 00:53:52.773
We now have over 130 participate at a time and do it three times a year. It's grown 19 fold.

00:53:53.122 --> 00:53:57.669
And so once we started doing this program for young men, training them as organizers,

00:53:57.669 --> 00:53:58.977
teaching them about the issue.

00:53:59.308 --> 00:54:02.709
And I started to see how much the young men were getting out of it.

00:54:03.429 --> 00:54:07.516
I became really drawn to the idea of we can build this whole organization around

00:54:07.818 --> 00:54:09.704
the guys who have gone through our program.

00:54:09.954 --> 00:54:13.499
They could learn how to organize they could learn about being better guys they

00:54:13.499 --> 00:54:14.930
can learn from each other about,

00:54:15.487 --> 00:54:18.919
you know how we need to treat people how we need to build community in ways

00:54:18.919 --> 00:54:22.869
that are just needed generally people need you know what get called third spaces

00:54:22.869 --> 00:54:27.809
spaces where they can just interact outside of work or home and so i saw a lot

00:54:27.809 --> 00:54:30.406
of potential in that and the obvious need that,

00:54:31.098 --> 00:54:34.754
you know, 61% of men in this country could be more active on this issue,

00:54:34.754 --> 00:54:38.634
could be standing with women and weren't. And between those two things,

00:54:38.634 --> 00:54:42.814
this felt like the right use of my time for the next phase of my life. Yeah.

00:54:43.388 --> 00:54:50.343
So you, like you said, it's estimated that 60 million American men via polls

00:54:50.772 --> 00:54:52.926
identify politically as pro-choice.

00:54:53.420 --> 00:54:59.038
And you've kind of answered this next question, but I want you to kind of flesh it out a little more.

00:54:59.369 --> 00:55:02.624
What is your strategy to activate them. Yeah.

00:55:04.388 --> 00:55:10.024
Well, for one, it's that most men, when they hear pro-choice,

00:55:10.286 --> 00:55:13.397
they either think one of two things. They just don't know what it is.

00:55:13.705 --> 00:55:16.752
And if that's the case, that's okay, but they just might not know.

00:55:17.211 --> 00:55:22.324
Or they say, well, that's a label for women, right? Like that's a women's label.

00:55:23.024 --> 00:55:26.974
I'm not going to step on that one. Of course, the problem is the guys who want

00:55:26.974 --> 00:55:31.492
to ban and criminalize abortion don't have any problem at all stepping into the issue.

00:55:31.782 --> 00:55:36.924
But we start with the assumption that men just haven't thought about this very

00:55:36.924 --> 00:55:39.554
much, wouldn't have much reason to think about it very much.

00:55:39.554 --> 00:55:44.454
In my experience, the only guys I know outside of Men for Choice who have spent

00:55:44.454 --> 00:55:48.404
much time thinking about this issue tend to be guys who something happened to

00:55:48.404 --> 00:55:51.234
their wife in the last couple years and she was denied care in a hospital.

00:55:51.234 --> 00:55:56.294
You know, men like Hope and Gomezy in Texas or Derek Cook in Florida or people

00:55:56.294 --> 00:56:00.354
who have had family members who are just shocked and they said doctors can't

00:56:00.354 --> 00:56:02.211
provide health care in America anymore.

00:56:02.520 --> 00:56:05.554
But unless you have that happen to you, you're not going to know.

00:56:05.554 --> 00:56:10.560
And so the first thing is to help guys understand the harm caused by abortion bans.

00:56:10.867 --> 00:56:15.514
The second is, you know, helping guys realize that this isn't just a women's

00:56:15.514 --> 00:56:20.018
issue. This is a broader issue about families and communities and health care.

00:56:20.337 --> 00:56:22.208
A third is that guys need an on-ramp.

00:56:22.794 --> 00:56:25.454
And the fourth is that they need a playbook. You know, what are you supposed

00:56:25.454 --> 00:56:26.815
to do? How are you supposed to do it?

00:56:27.226 --> 00:56:32.250
So the main way we do that is through our youth fellowship program with 18 to 28-year-old men.

00:56:32.579 --> 00:56:35.583
Next application is due on September 14th.

00:56:35.925 --> 00:56:39.574
And we have over 100 young men involved at a time who learn how to be organized,

00:56:39.574 --> 00:56:43.744
who actually run peer-to-peer, you know, small group conversations where they

00:56:44.110 --> 00:56:47.424
reach their male peers about the state of abortion rights in America because

00:56:47.424 --> 00:56:48.642
no guys are thinking about that.

00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:51.181
And it means something different if it comes from your male friend.

00:56:51.994 --> 00:56:56.194
And then the second thing is online communications. We've started doing more

00:56:56.194 --> 00:56:59.985
and more where, you know, mostly guys who have gone through our fellowship program

00:57:00.368 --> 00:57:02.994
are speaking out online and the numbers have gotten big there.

00:57:02.994 --> 00:57:08.078
In just the month of July, we reached 15 million people online just in the month of July

00:57:08.452 --> 00:57:12.984
and it's guys reaching to their networks, reaching to the guys they can reach,

00:57:12.984 --> 00:57:16.334
whether they're a gamer and they can reach gaming guys or they're a fitness

00:57:16.334 --> 00:57:20.189
guy and they can reach fitness guys it takes all of us to reach the audiences

00:57:20.566 --> 00:57:26.068
that we can reach and then the third way is through our our political entity,

00:57:26.661 --> 00:57:31.214
men for choice advocacy we mobilize at elections to get guys to show up to to

00:57:31.214 --> 00:57:35.014
knock doors make calls do what's needed to support you know the women who have

00:57:35.014 --> 00:57:38.280
been on their own with this one and we don't think it should be that way yeah.

00:57:39.250 --> 00:57:44.690
All right. So what is the biggest weapon that needs to be tapped into when you're

00:57:44.690 --> 00:57:46.494
trying to get these men off the fence?

00:57:47.032 --> 00:57:51.589
Is it the instinct of empathy or the desire for independence?

00:57:52.451 --> 00:57:57.110
It's a great question. I think both are important, but I think if I had to pick

00:57:57.110 --> 00:58:00.270
just one of those, because I think the other one comes from it,

00:58:00.682 --> 00:58:02.858
it's the desire for independence.

00:58:03.363 --> 00:58:09.900
You know, one of the things we've found is that when men realize that men are

00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:14.003
stakeholders with something to lose in this, it's not just about someone else,

00:58:14.468 --> 00:58:16.354
and start thinking about this as,

00:58:17.310 --> 00:58:18.490
what if this was your wife?

00:58:18.490 --> 00:58:21.405
What if this was your mom? What if this was your daughter?

00:58:21.701 --> 00:58:25.567
Do you want your daughter growing up in a country with fewer rights than your grandma did?

00:58:25.938 --> 00:58:31.804
Those kinds of things, not to mention, you know, we kind of take for granted that.

00:58:33.011 --> 00:58:37.561
In America, you get to plan your own family without government interference.

00:58:37.561 --> 00:58:40.601
That isn't necessarily going to be the case much longer. And so I think once

00:58:40.601 --> 00:58:44.771
guys realize that an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us,

00:58:44.771 --> 00:58:48.389
and this can affect you and your family, especially if they hear from a man,

00:58:48.783 --> 00:58:50.031
for example, Derek Cook,

00:58:50.610 --> 00:58:53.041
who I know very well here in Florida,

00:58:53.901 --> 00:58:58.501
his wife was denied care during a miscarriage, a pregnancy at 16 weeks,

00:58:58.501 --> 00:59:03.571
and then the next day lost half the blood in her body when she had to miscarry

00:59:03.571 --> 00:59:05.582
in a beauty salon in a bathroom.

00:59:06.202 --> 00:59:11.661
And when I met him, he was just distraught. He didn't realize that that could

00:59:11.661 --> 00:59:13.861
happen to someone in America.

00:59:13.861 --> 00:59:19.501
And his exact words to me is, I want to talk to men before they're holding their

00:59:19.501 --> 00:59:21.801
wife while she's bleeding out in a public bathroom.

00:59:22.184 --> 00:59:27.519
And so I think when you realize that this is serious and this can affect anyone.

00:59:28.442 --> 00:59:31.931
And tap into that, I think, instinct that most Americans have,

00:59:31.931 --> 00:59:35.924
that the government shouldn't be interfering in the details of your private

00:59:36.070 --> 00:59:39.811
decisions that you and your wife know better than, you know,

00:59:39.811 --> 00:59:42.351
Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis or Donald Trump.

00:59:43.651 --> 00:59:46.776
I think that's the main thing. I think the empathy comes from that.

00:59:47.345 --> 00:59:49.811
Because if we can start to say, well, I wouldn't want the government telling

00:59:49.811 --> 00:59:50.933
me what to do with my body.

00:59:51.477 --> 00:59:53.944
I wouldn't want the government getting between me and my doctor.

00:59:54.293 --> 00:59:56.991
If you can see that in yourself, you can then see it in somewhere else.

00:59:56.991 --> 00:59:58.420
And that's where the empathy comes in.

00:59:59.436 --> 01:00:03.130
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's very thoughtful.

01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:06.816
You know, when I was putting the question together,

01:00:07.656 --> 01:00:12.311
you know, I was kind of thinking that some people would say to empathy first,

01:00:12.311 --> 01:00:16.494
because a lot of times in our political discussions,

01:00:17.189 --> 01:00:24.492
we forget that the person on the other side or the people that we make decisions for are humans.

01:00:25.603 --> 01:00:32.413
And, you know, I think that empathy has been just really just taken all out

01:00:32.413 --> 01:00:33.709
of the political debate.

01:00:35.031 --> 01:00:39.288
And so that's why I wanted, you know, since you're a frontline person on this

01:00:39.288 --> 01:00:42.918
issue, I just wanted to kind of pick your brain on it. And the fact that you

01:00:42.918 --> 01:00:44.521
didn't hesitate was very impressive.

01:00:44.939 --> 01:00:47.441
You went right into it. So I appreciate that.

01:00:48.476 --> 01:00:55.343
Do you think that the 2026-2028 elections will lead to a reversal of the Dobbs decision?

01:00:56.386 --> 01:00:59.855
Not yet, because I think that,

01:01:00.458 --> 01:01:06.958
for the next couple years, as long as the current administration is in office

01:01:06.958 --> 01:01:09.088
and can keep appointing people who,

01:01:09.588 --> 01:01:15.078
mostly through a lot of behind the scenes sort of ways can further restrict

01:01:15.078 --> 01:01:18.373
and ban various forms of reproductive health care.

01:01:19.068 --> 01:01:20.698
They're still going to be able to do that.

01:01:20.698 --> 01:01:25.118
You know, the new attorney general, you know, said privately when he was courting

01:01:25.118 --> 01:01:28.428
support, even though he's Donald Trump's personal lawyer and there were lots

01:01:28.428 --> 01:01:32.718
of reasons not to appoint him, he was doing that legwork to get the votes he

01:01:32.718 --> 01:01:34.048
needed to become attorney general.

01:01:34.048 --> 01:01:38.268
And something he said to a number of, you know, far right leaders was we're

01:01:38.268 --> 01:01:41.673
going to make the Dobbs decision in effect in every state. In other words,

01:01:41.998 --> 01:01:45.634
what they said about, you know, we'll leave it to the states was a lie.

01:01:46.034 --> 01:01:48.379
And we knew it was a lie, but now they're saying it was a lie.

01:01:49.048 --> 01:01:52.538
And they're planning to take it farther and ban and criminalize abortion in

01:01:52.538 --> 01:01:56.878
every state. So they'll still be able to do all those things and what I think

01:01:56.878 --> 01:02:01.501
the midterms could do is send a signal that the wind is against them.

01:02:02.076 --> 01:02:05.310
Because I think we forget sometimes, you know, we look at who's in office and

01:02:05.606 --> 01:02:09.378
we think that the president or powerful people are just sort of pulling levers

01:02:09.378 --> 01:02:11.170
and it just kind of happens.

01:02:11.466 --> 01:02:14.098
But they're looking at public opinion too and they're looking at what they can

01:02:14.098 --> 01:02:18.618
get away with and, you know, I don't see any world where this gets significantly

01:02:18.618 --> 01:02:21.601
better in the next few years, but certainly,

01:02:22.070 --> 01:02:25.998
a result that shows the country's not on board with what they're doing would

01:02:25.998 --> 01:02:28.460
be sanded their gears, would slow them down.

01:02:29.245 --> 01:02:31.660
Which gets into the importance of this being a long-term fight.

01:02:31.660 --> 01:02:36.040
You know, 50 years ago, when Roe v. Wade was decided, you know,

01:02:36.040 --> 01:02:39.507
the opposition lost 7-2 at the Supreme Court.

01:02:39.937 --> 01:02:42.497
And they were losing on everything. And the same people, by the way,

01:02:42.973 --> 01:02:49.027
who started the anti-abortion movement were also against the civil rights movement.

01:02:49.405 --> 01:02:55.215
And one of the reasons that the anti-abortion movement took off was realizing

01:02:55.494 --> 01:03:01.300
that supporting segregationist policies, For example, opposing tax exemptions

01:03:01.300 --> 01:03:03.277
for private schools in the South that.

01:03:04.180 --> 01:03:06.804
You know, wanted to uphold segregationist private institutions.

01:03:07.059 --> 01:03:08.754
That wasn't a political winner anymore.

01:03:09.108 --> 01:03:12.810
But they realized that by turning to abortion and sort of claiming to be for

01:03:12.810 --> 01:03:16.517
families, they could present something that was a little more digestible for people.

01:03:16.888 --> 01:03:20.063
And they lost and they lost and they lost until they started winning.

01:03:20.219 --> 01:03:23.670
And so I think we need to have that mindset, just like those who came before

01:03:23.670 --> 01:03:27.372
us, that we're not going to win this one in the immediate future.

01:03:27.674 --> 01:03:28.780
And so we have two options.

01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:32.390
Do we give up and say, well, I guess that's how the country's going to be,

01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:38.110
and, you know, oh, these people have won, or do we stem the bleeding as much

01:03:38.110 --> 01:03:41.726
as we can and dig in for a long fight ahead like those before us did?

01:03:42.746 --> 01:03:51.000
Yeah, I think the only reason why I think if the results are the Democrats take

01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:56.092
hold of the House and the Senate and then a Democrat's elected president.

01:03:57.590 --> 01:04:01.968
Or a progressive Republican. I don't know. I mean, I think they still exist

01:04:01.968 --> 01:04:04.707
somewhere. They might be unicorns, but I think they still exist.

01:04:05.401 --> 01:04:11.558
I think that they're going to learn the lesson from not codifying Roe v.

01:04:11.558 --> 01:04:19.212
Wade when it was the decision that was protecting women's reproductive rights.

01:04:19.989 --> 01:04:22.839
Just like they're learning the lesson about the Civil Rights Act.

01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:28.468
I think, you know, when you get to a point where things have been going the

01:04:28.468 --> 01:04:37.046
same and you lose that right after you thought it was, you know,

01:04:37.991 --> 01:04:43.921
you took it for granted, then, you know, again, you're in shock when you do lose it.

01:04:44.575 --> 01:04:51.236
So I just, I think I'm hopeful that they're going to be more proactive.

01:04:52.414 --> 01:04:55.514
And yeah, I just hope that they're going to be more proactive.

01:04:56.726 --> 01:05:04.758
All right. So the next question is, how does the pro-choice movement fit into the preamble of the U.S.

01:05:04.758 --> 01:05:11.178
Constitution's charge of promoting the general welfare and the protection of

01:05:11.178 --> 01:05:12.320
individual liberties? Thanks.

01:05:13.964 --> 01:05:17.414
It's a great question. I mean, I think it's a really basic one of,

01:05:17.414 --> 01:05:21.544
are we going to be the kind of country where individuals and families get to

01:05:21.544 --> 01:05:25.174
make their own decisions about what's best for them? Or are we going to trust

01:05:25.174 --> 01:05:27.553
mostly men and government to do it for us?

01:05:27.934 --> 01:05:30.852
And so I think if you think about the kind of country where,

01:05:31.306 --> 01:05:36.553
you know, everyone born here can look out at the world and think,

01:05:36.715 --> 01:05:38.956
I've got a decent shot of getting ahead.

01:05:39.298 --> 01:05:44.294
If something happens to me, You know, it's not going to be, it's not going to

01:05:44.294 --> 01:05:49.234
be a life ending catastrophe if I have an issue in an American hospital and

01:05:49.234 --> 01:05:51.644
I can, I can, I can get care.

01:05:51.644 --> 01:05:55.400
I'm confident that I'm able to chart the path that that's, that's best for myself.

01:05:55.807 --> 01:05:59.214
Uh, I think we're all, we're all better off when individuals can make healthier

01:05:59.214 --> 01:06:03.760
decisions for themselves on this issue and, and more generally. Yeah.

01:06:04.828 --> 01:06:12.130
When your time at Men for Choice comes to an end, what will people say about your leadership?

01:06:13.829 --> 01:06:19.605
It's a great question and, you know, obviously best answered by others down the road.

01:06:19.605 --> 01:06:25.555
But what I would hope they would say is that I live the values of the organization.

01:06:25.555 --> 01:06:30.885
You know, you asked that quote at the beginning about the thing we'll remember

01:06:31.325 --> 01:06:33.472
is the silence of our friends.

01:06:34.499 --> 01:06:39.670
And we at Men for Choice talk a lot about your politics is the way you treat people.

01:06:40.187 --> 01:06:43.725
So if we claim we're here to support others, if we claim we're going to be the

01:06:43.725 --> 01:06:49.055
kinds of guys who believe that things can be better than they are now,

01:06:49.055 --> 01:06:54.468
that we don't have to fall into this sort of embarrassing, selfish, angry,

01:06:55.345 --> 01:07:01.771
cruel kind of country, if we're going to say that, then we need to do that.

01:07:02.200 --> 01:07:05.975
And what I would hope is that, you know, when the dust settles and people are

01:07:05.975 --> 01:07:11.185
looking back, whether that's 10 or 20 or 30 years from now, I would hope that

01:07:11.525 --> 01:07:15.425
they would say he was consistent with what he said and what he did.

01:07:15.745 --> 01:07:19.325
And I would also hope, because we have a lot of men in their 20s on staff,

01:07:19.824 --> 01:07:25.415
I would hope they would say, I learned something from him about how to treat

01:07:25.415 --> 01:07:29.109
others that has lasted with me in the decisions I've made in my career and my family.

01:07:29.635 --> 01:07:39.135
Finish this sentence I have hope because I have hope because I used to be a U.S. history teacher.

01:07:40.296 --> 01:07:44.314
And I'm well aware that things are bad, but this is not the worst it's ever been.

01:07:44.987 --> 01:07:49.736
And I'm aware that at many points in history, people think they're uniquely,

01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:54.688
facing the worst thing that's ever happened. And this isn't the worst this country's ever faced.

01:07:55.547 --> 01:07:58.766
It's not the worst even in the living lifetime of some people who might have

01:07:58.766 --> 01:08:00.995
lived through the 1920s or 1930s.

01:08:01.390 --> 01:08:05.846
You know, ask a leader in the Montgomery bus boycott if this is the worst we've

01:08:05.846 --> 01:08:08.467
ever faced. They had it pretty hard and they endured.

01:08:08.815 --> 01:08:13.846
And so because the blueprint is there, we might have gotten out of practice

01:08:13.846 --> 01:08:17.386
with some of the old school practices of organizing from the civil rights movement,

01:08:17.386 --> 01:08:19.610
from the labor movement, but they're there.

01:08:20.010 --> 01:08:27.045
And I know enough to know this has happened before and be motivated to act based on that.

01:08:28.142 --> 01:08:36.515
Yeah. All right. So, Aaron Bosslin, how can people get involved with Men for Choice?

01:08:36.956 --> 01:08:39.719
And how can people reach out to you?

01:08:40.345 --> 01:08:46.480
Yeah. So, if you're interested, if you go to the Men for Choice website, it's men4choice.org.

01:08:47.159 --> 01:08:50.332
You can fill out a take action form. And then a member of our team will call

01:08:50.332 --> 01:08:53.582
you. It's not like most customer service chatbots or something where you fill

01:08:53.582 --> 01:08:56.035
out a form and no one gets back to you. Someone will call you that week.

01:08:56.360 --> 01:08:57.817
And they can pair you with the right thing.

01:08:58.206 --> 01:09:04.522
The most immediately actionable step is that we are accepting applications for

01:09:04.522 --> 01:09:05.572
our next fellowship program for

01:09:05.572 --> 01:09:09.782
18 to 28-year-old men, and you can either nominate a young man you know.

01:09:10.762 --> 01:09:14.762
To apply to the fellowship, or if you are an 18 to 28-year-old man,

01:09:14.762 --> 01:09:18.556
you can apply yourself, and sometimes guys in their 30s participate as well.

01:09:19.271 --> 01:09:24.717
And to get hold of us, email info, I-N-F-O, at menforchoice.org,

01:09:25.024 --> 01:09:30.080
or my personal email is Aaron, A-A-R-O-N, at menforchoice.org.

01:09:30.452 --> 01:09:36.261
And if anything I've said or the questions that Eric asked sparked something in you, then reach out.

01:09:36.592 --> 01:09:39.232
You know, most guys think they're not the right guy on this.

01:09:39.232 --> 01:09:42.602
Nearly everyone who ends up applying to the fellowship, they say something like,

01:09:42.602 --> 01:09:45.342
well, I haven't done a lot on abortion rights yet, and I'm not sure I'm the

01:09:45.342 --> 01:09:47.922
right guy. And we go, that's the point. No guy has.

01:09:48.522 --> 01:09:52.892
So don't hesitate to reach out. We'll also have a virtual event this Thursday

01:09:52.892 --> 01:09:56.462
on the history of abortion rights, where we'll hear from major national leader

01:09:56.462 --> 01:10:00.632
from the 1970s and an investigative journalist who's looked into abortion rights

01:10:00.632 --> 01:10:02.910
in the last 50 years. You can join that.

01:10:03.380 --> 01:10:07.778
But email info at menforchoice.org, email Aaron at menforchoice.org,

01:10:08.074 --> 01:10:12.554
go to the website or go to our Instagram page and you can learn ways to get plugged in.

01:10:13.316 --> 01:10:17.559
So you're a nonprofit, correct? Yes, sir.

01:10:18.099 --> 01:10:21.850
So that means people need to donate some money. So look, y'all go to the website.

01:10:22.134 --> 01:10:26.856
If y'all like what y'all hearing from Aaron or you like what you see on the

01:10:26.856 --> 01:10:29.248
website, make sure that you click that donate button.

01:10:29.805 --> 01:10:32.975
Because all this fun stuff that Aaron is doing and his staff,

01:10:33.579 --> 01:10:34.832
it doesn't come for free.

01:10:35.316 --> 01:10:38.024
They need whatever help that you can get.

01:10:38.535 --> 01:10:42.816
How'd I do? I do okay? That was great, Eric. Couldn't have asked for it anymore.

01:10:42.816 --> 01:10:44.836
The real energy here. All right.

01:10:46.820 --> 01:10:52.680
You know, it's like, yeah, I don't buy it. It's like y'all are doing good work,

01:10:53.080 --> 01:10:54.859
doing the Lord's work in some cases.

01:10:55.312 --> 01:10:59.985
And, you know, it's like if you're not, people, y'all need to ask for that money.

01:11:00.228 --> 01:11:05.220
Just like John Ossoff, every time he sends me an email, God bless him, I love him.

01:11:05.220 --> 01:11:08.590
But every time he sends me, Eric, it's urgent. I need something.

01:11:08.590 --> 01:11:12.620
It's like it's urgent that you all support these groups that are here doing

01:11:12.620 --> 01:11:14.050
this grassroots organizing.

01:11:14.050 --> 01:11:17.250
And so I just wanted to make sure I got that plug in there for you.

01:11:17.250 --> 01:11:21.220
Yeah. And if I could add, something is always better than nothing.

01:11:21.220 --> 01:11:25.264
If you can give five bucks, that's better than zero. If you can give two 50,

01:11:25.676 --> 01:11:30.470
that's better than zero. I think we get hung up sometimes on the idea that,

01:11:30.470 --> 01:11:35.208
well, I can't individually change it all. You know, I'm not politically connected or I'm not rich.

01:11:35.556 --> 01:11:39.819
And, you know, there's, there's, there's two things that I think can change the country.

01:11:40.237 --> 01:11:44.248
One is organized money, and there's a lot of that on the other side.

01:11:44.538 --> 01:11:46.000
And the other is organized people.

01:11:46.320 --> 01:11:50.190
And I think the trick of the organized people part is that no one thing any

01:11:50.190 --> 01:11:52.776
of us does, including me, is ever going to be enough.

01:11:52.979 --> 01:11:56.134
But if we all do what we can, it adds up because there's more of us than them.

01:11:56.819 --> 01:12:01.850
That's exactly right. All right, look, Aaron, thank you so much again for doing

01:12:01.850 --> 01:12:06.199
this. Thank you so much for taking the leadership of the organization.

01:12:06.582 --> 01:12:07.945
I wish you much luck on that.

01:12:08.375 --> 01:12:12.550
So anytime you have an open invitation to come back, so anytime you want to

01:12:12.550 --> 01:12:15.584
come back on and talk about this issue or some other issues,

01:12:15.997 --> 01:12:19.572
just let me know and we'll make that happen. Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me on.

01:12:20.142 --> 01:12:22.940
Yes, sir. All right, guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:12:42.321 --> 01:12:47.141
All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Keon Charles.

01:12:47.890 --> 01:12:52.471
Keon is a San Francisco writer exploring politics, technology,

01:12:52.471 --> 01:12:56.419
culture, and the emerging mythology of American civilization.

01:12:57.274 --> 01:13:02.221
A self-described culture hacker, he uses essays, poetry, and social media to

01:13:02.221 --> 01:13:06.431
turn unconventional ideas into narratives built for the Internet age.

01:13:07.579 --> 01:13:14.931
He is also emerging as one of the young thought leaders in Afrofuturism.

01:13:14.931 --> 01:13:18.471
And so we're going to talk a little bit about that during the interview.

01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:22.871
So ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

01:13:22.871 --> 01:13:27.055
guest on this podcast, Keon Charles.

01:13:38.801 --> 01:13:42.388
Right. Keon Charles. How you doing, brother? You doing good?

01:13:43.030 --> 01:13:44.955
I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing?

01:13:45.619 --> 01:13:49.531
Doing fine. I'm glad that you could join us. I know you're out there on the

01:13:49.531 --> 01:13:56.342
West Coast, so it's a little earlier in the day for you, but we're going to make this thing work.

01:13:56.971 --> 01:14:02.561
I want to get right into it because you're kind of a unique brother.

01:14:02.901 --> 01:14:07.890
You're an artist, but you're also like a political writer and,

01:14:09.121 --> 01:14:13.411
excuse me, lecturer, and you're an Afro-futurist.

01:14:14.024 --> 01:14:18.593
So I want to get into that topic a little more with you.

01:14:19.180 --> 01:14:24.101
But before we do that, I do a couple of icebreakers. So the first icebreaker

01:14:24.101 --> 01:14:26.959
is a quote that I want you to respond to.

01:14:27.499 --> 01:14:32.881
And the quote is, We live under the false impression that our pain,

01:14:33.281 --> 01:14:36.802
our dreams are so incredibly unique.

01:14:39.733 --> 01:14:42.333
Uh, hmm, that sounds like a piece of a poem.

01:14:43.676 --> 01:14:50.430
Yeah, you know, if I remember correctly, that is a piece of a poem I wrote, like a fashion poem.

01:14:50.430 --> 01:14:54.160
I was writing a lot of, like, fashion poetry, where I took lines from,

01:14:54.160 --> 01:14:59.511
like, fashion magazines, articles, and kind of related things like that,

01:14:59.941 --> 01:15:01.688
and I compiled them with the poetry.

01:15:02.725 --> 01:15:06.180
And I don't remember exactly which poem that was, but that does sound familiar

01:15:06.180 --> 01:15:09.790
to me. Hopefully, I'm not completely off on that one. But, yeah,

01:15:09.790 --> 01:15:10.770
that's what it sounds like to me.

01:15:11.468 --> 01:15:16.489
And, you know, like I said, I got it out of fashion, but I think it can apply to history.

01:15:17.271 --> 01:15:23.810
You know, a lot of, you know, human pain and human dreams don't differ that

01:15:23.810 --> 01:15:25.594
much between different peoples.

01:15:26.527 --> 01:15:30.710
You know, that doesn't diminish the horrificness of pain or,

01:15:31.050 --> 01:15:32.982
you know, the joy of dreams.

01:15:33.104 --> 01:15:35.937
You know, these are all important and powerful things.

01:15:36.428 --> 01:15:41.240
But if you study a lot of different people you see a lot of similarity between

01:15:41.240 --> 01:15:45.840
them you know like a lot of people want to get wealthy a lot of people want

01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:49.212
to get rich you know that's important to a lot of people a lot of people have,

01:15:49.970 --> 01:15:55.270
trauma of war you know that's a human universal you know things like that you

01:15:55.270 --> 01:15:58.190
know so there's a lot of commonality on both the good and the bad,

01:15:59.037 --> 01:16:01.242
that we see across across the world and uh.

01:16:02.517 --> 01:16:09.375
That doesn't diminish anything but i think it It makes it easier to relate to people in a sense. Yeah.

01:16:10.055 --> 01:16:14.081
All right. So now the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.

01:16:14.803 --> 01:16:18.902
So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.

01:16:19.835 --> 01:16:29.590
Six. Okay. What do you think was the worst or best thing the previous administration did?

01:16:30.709 --> 01:16:39.708
Okay. I think the best thing the Biden administration did was the Inflation Reduction Act, the IRA.

01:16:40.629 --> 01:16:46.279
Because among other things, what that bill did was it spent a lot of resources

01:16:46.279 --> 01:16:54.700
and money on re-industrialization, particularly of two regions of the South and the Midwest.

01:16:55.315 --> 01:17:00.736
And for my own political goals, re-industrializing the South is key.

01:17:01.317 --> 01:17:04.033
You know, if you build up a lot of factories, the factories need workers,

01:17:05.147 --> 01:17:09.729
and that could attract a lot of people from the North and West to the South

01:17:09.729 --> 01:17:14.222
for work, particularly African-Americans or Black peoples, you know.

01:17:14.704 --> 01:17:21.064
So I think that bill had a lot of promise in furthering my goals.

01:17:21.522 --> 01:17:25.685
And because it was built, it was because it so benefited the South,

01:17:26.381 --> 01:17:31.025
even though it was done by a Democratic president, I thought to myself,

01:17:31.681 --> 01:17:35.939
even if Trump wins, there's no way he'll get rid of this bill because it's such

01:17:35.939 --> 01:17:37.567
a huge benefit to the red states.

01:17:38.002 --> 01:17:40.480
I was way wrong on that one, surprisingly.

01:17:41.429 --> 01:17:46.209
I'm still in shock that the Republicans just let that bill be destroyed when

01:17:46.209 --> 01:17:47.673
it's so heavily benefited them.

01:17:48.571 --> 01:17:53.939
But I was very excited about that. That's what I was watching very closely in

01:17:53.939 --> 01:17:54.743
the Biden administration.

01:17:56.501 --> 01:17:57.238
Alright, so,

01:17:58.733 --> 01:18:03.953
Well, Charles, what is an Afrofuturist? It's a fairly new movement,

01:18:04.093 --> 01:18:08.203
I think. It kind of blew up briefly, especially around Black Panther.

01:18:08.668 --> 01:18:12.803
And I think that Black Panther kind of turned it into, like,

01:18:13.092 --> 01:18:15.048
Black sci-fi kind of thing.

01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:25.903
But outside of Black Panther-ization of Afrofuturism, it was kind of an experimental kind of movement.

01:18:25.903 --> 01:18:31.533
It was driven by several women, like Natasha Womack being probably the biggest

01:18:31.533 --> 01:18:32.748
name, at least as far as I know.

01:18:33.526 --> 01:18:41.263
And it had a lot to do with owning time, like time being a fluid kind of nonlinear

01:18:41.263 --> 01:18:43.723
thing that you can control and play with.

01:18:44.689 --> 01:18:52.026
And so you could basically twist time to their purposes. And that's how it was used in narrative.

01:18:52.904 --> 01:18:57.630
Trying to remember the one book that's pushed me around. Yes, a lot of time travel.

01:18:58.523 --> 01:19:04.512
I guess Huston Wombeck used it to kind of tie older African modes of thought

01:19:04.848 --> 01:19:08.472
to African American and African action.

01:19:08.791 --> 01:19:11.862
So in a sense, it had a pan-Africanist bent to it as well.

01:19:12.781 --> 01:19:17.147
But yeah, it's very experimental, but it's been kind of.

01:19:18.304 --> 01:19:21.367
Mainstreamed too early I think unfortunately,

01:19:22.328 --> 01:19:27.644
yeah well we tend to do that you know when we get an idea you know even,

01:19:28.419 --> 01:19:31.681
just a just a basic example like in sports right,

01:19:32.307 --> 01:19:36.454
there's a young man that got drafted by Dallas Cowboys named Caleb Downs he's

01:19:36.454 --> 01:19:39.318
supposed to be one of the best safeties coming out of college,

01:19:39.906 --> 01:19:44.204
they've already compared his brother to Ronnie Lott I mean it's like he hasn't

01:19:44.204 --> 01:19:47.884
played to snap yet, but they said he's going to have the same impact that Ronnie

01:19:47.884 --> 01:19:50.558
Lott had for the 49ers and the 80s. You know what I'm saying?

01:19:51.046 --> 01:19:56.944
And so when you, when you said that the Black Pantherization of Afrofuturism,

01:19:56.944 --> 01:19:59.336
that's what I thought is like, okay, let,

01:20:00.100 --> 01:20:04.885
okay, Black Panther might be a form or might be an, a goal maybe,

01:20:05.535 --> 01:20:09.919
but I don't think that really defines the movement. Right. And so,

01:20:11.076 --> 01:20:17.861
I think a lot from what I was reading, a lot of it is, you know, how do we fit?

01:20:18.413 --> 01:20:22.476
Because it was like, it was a real, it was a billboard. I can't remember where

01:20:22.476 --> 01:20:26.969
the billboard was, but it was a billboard that said Black people are in the future.

01:20:28.016 --> 01:20:33.806
And that was always a joke for us, you know, watching some of the original sci-fi

01:20:33.806 --> 01:20:37.399
stuff that it was like, there was no Black people.

01:20:37.747 --> 01:20:40.917
And even after Star Trek introduced us to a Black person.

01:20:42.113 --> 01:20:45.607
Star Wars came out and there were no black people in Star Wars, right?

01:20:46.211 --> 01:20:49.216
And they all spoke with English accents. So we're trying to figure out,

01:20:49.216 --> 01:20:52.316
so they're going to be nothing but British people in the future.

01:20:52.316 --> 01:20:53.037
You know what I'm saying?

01:20:53.513 --> 01:21:00.906
So I think a lot of that drove the thought. It's like, what will our culture

01:21:00.906 --> 01:21:05.632
look like 20, 30, 100 years from now, right?

01:21:06.149 --> 01:21:09.388
So I'm going to ask you this question and then I'm going to go back to,

01:21:10.081 --> 01:21:13.706
I'll come back to Afrofuturism toward the end. But I do want to ask this question

01:21:13.706 --> 01:21:14.476
while we're thinking about it.

01:21:14.945 --> 01:21:19.282
What would African-American culture look like in a world without racism?

01:21:20.338 --> 01:21:24.726
That's a really good question. I, you know, assuming that we stay part of the

01:21:24.726 --> 01:21:30.452
US of A, you know, that we're not doing any separatist thing, you know, that's tough.

01:21:30.673 --> 01:21:35.056
I think it would squint for quite a bit. I think some black people would choose

01:21:35.056 --> 01:21:36.394
to assimilate into white culture.

01:21:36.794 --> 01:21:43.336
You know, I would argue, you know, that black Republicans are that essentially.

01:21:43.336 --> 01:21:44.837
They're assimilated black people.

01:21:45.081 --> 01:21:47.221
So I think some black people would go down that line.

01:21:48.058 --> 01:21:53.756
Some black people would stay as very nationalistic, you know,

01:21:53.756 --> 01:21:56.552
very strongly pro-black culture.

01:21:57.137 --> 01:22:01.583
And I think in a world without racism black culture is.

01:22:02.749 --> 01:22:05.940
Would develop in very unusual ways to us now,

01:22:06.629 --> 01:22:11.769
because racism would no longer be a binding agent you know like truthfully and

01:22:12.169 --> 01:22:16.249
i don't mean this in a negative sense just kind of this what it is a lot of

01:22:16.249 --> 01:22:19.115
our culture a lot of what binds us together is a shared pain,

01:22:19.763 --> 01:22:23.967
you know it's a shared history of struggle and if that just goes away,

01:22:24.732 --> 01:22:29.689
that is a good thing i think but we're losing a binding agent you know so what

01:22:29.689 --> 01:22:31.176
what becomes a binding agent next,

01:22:31.945 --> 01:22:33.559
you know that's my question you know i mean,

01:22:34.390 --> 01:22:40.529
you know it could be something like aave you know maybe you know language becomes

01:22:40.529 --> 01:22:44.359
like a binding agent that's how they do it in europe everyone's white in europe

01:22:44.359 --> 01:22:45.826
but you have different languages you know that's,

01:22:46.471 --> 01:22:50.793
a dividing factor or uniting factor religion might be an aspect of black church,

01:22:51.275 --> 01:22:55.269
i don't see the black church going away because of a lack of racism you know

01:22:55.269 --> 01:22:59.731
i think it'll stay around then that might be another binding agent that keeps the community together,

01:23:00.665 --> 01:23:05.659
you know so i i think there are i think there are enough elements in black culture

01:23:05.659 --> 01:23:11.159
to keep the culture together despite racism but it would still get looser and

01:23:11.159 --> 01:23:13.210
you would see more groups splinter off,

01:23:13.866 --> 01:23:17.729
and do their own thing you know which i think is a good thing you know people

01:23:17.729 --> 01:23:20.873
want to do that let them do it you know no big deal.

01:23:22.815 --> 01:23:29.132
I wonder to myself what our eyes to Africa would be like in that kind of setting.

01:23:29.735 --> 01:23:32.595
You know, would we choose? You know, there's already a movement now,

01:23:32.595 --> 01:23:35.088
you know, like ADOS or FDA,

01:23:35.843 --> 01:23:40.705
where they're kind of rejecting Africa altogether in favor of a kind of pure

01:23:40.705 --> 01:23:45.065
American kind of, you know, I'm using air quotes here for the audio,

01:23:45.065 --> 01:23:47.581
pure American kind of outlook.

01:23:48.132 --> 01:23:51.425
And I think things like that would continue to develop as well in a world-world

01:23:51.425 --> 01:23:53.395
racism, you know because again,

01:23:54.172 --> 01:23:58.675
part of what binds us to africans on the continent is a shared history of struggle

01:23:58.675 --> 01:24:04.803
against european oppression essentially and without that in without that bringing us together,

01:24:05.467 --> 01:24:09.475
ties get looser i think tires would get much looser in terms of africa because

01:24:09.475 --> 01:24:13.805
there's already the ties to africa are less strong than our ties to each other

01:24:13.805 --> 01:24:16.088
than americans just this is how it is,

01:24:16.740 --> 01:24:21.285
you know not that i'm you know i'm in favor of pro-asperties but I think just

01:24:21.285 --> 01:24:23.404
because highs are less, less than.

01:24:24.341 --> 01:24:28.846
So a lot of fragmentation, a lot of fragmentation, I think is the answer to that question.

01:24:29.433 --> 01:24:33.345
And that, you know, that's people's choice. You know, it would be a lot of free

01:24:33.345 --> 01:24:35.430
choice. I think it'd be interesting to see, you know?

01:24:36.363 --> 01:24:40.629
Yeah, I think, I think that would be interesting to see because I believe you're right.

01:24:41.289 --> 01:24:45.145
Well, I know you're right that the binding agent has been, like you said,

01:24:45.145 --> 01:24:49.705
pain. I mean, we've developed a whole genre. well, really two genres of music.

01:24:49.705 --> 01:24:55.068
When you look at blues and you look at rap, that's based out of pain, right, originally.

01:24:55.719 --> 01:25:03.225
And as it's gotten more mainstream and more acceptive, then more creative forces

01:25:03.225 --> 01:25:06.835
have been able to get in and take it to different levels.

01:25:06.835 --> 01:25:13.015
But like you said, a lot of the stuff, I mean, even the braids that women wear,

01:25:14.186 --> 01:25:18.197
and there's a language in that. right?

01:25:18.843 --> 01:25:22.169
And it was a survival mechanism in that. So.

01:25:23.535 --> 01:25:32.826
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how, I mean, will we even call ourselves African-Americans anymore?

01:25:33.197 --> 01:25:36.755
What will we call ourselves, right? And that might be part of fragmentation

01:25:36.755 --> 01:25:42.208
that some would say, well, I'm ADOS, or some may say I'm just,

01:25:43.012 --> 01:25:44.913
I am who I am. I mean, I don't know.

01:25:45.070 --> 01:25:49.215
But I thought when I saw that, I said, that'll be a good question to ask because

01:25:49.215 --> 01:25:51.944
that's something futuristic we have to look at.

01:25:52.767 --> 01:25:56.326
But since you brought up Africa, let me ask you a couple of questions about,

01:25:57.137 --> 01:26:01.575
our relationship with the continent. And when I say our, I'm talking about the

01:26:01.575 --> 01:26:02.866
United States as a whole.

01:26:04.402 --> 01:26:08.490
Why should America stop backing the losing horse?

01:26:09.567 --> 01:26:14.258
Hmm. I, I, I mean by that, you mean Europe?

01:26:15.320 --> 01:26:19.435
Yeah. Define what the, I just threw it out there, but you can go ahead and define

01:26:19.435 --> 01:26:20.615
what the losing horse is.

01:26:22.023 --> 01:26:28.697
Sure. Yeah, I wrote an article for, excuse me, I wrote an article for Afro newspaper,

01:26:29.667 --> 01:26:32.413
that the U.S. needs to stop backing Europe in Africa.

01:26:33.119 --> 01:26:36.989
Because, in part, because Europe is a losing horse in Africa, like you said.

01:26:37.822 --> 01:26:44.654
You know, a while ago, there was a big story in the news about how Niger,

01:26:44.852 --> 01:26:48.480
I believe it was, hits France out. It was very humiliating for France.

01:26:49.383 --> 01:26:52.850
I cheered for it. I don't like French influence on Africa.

01:26:53.984 --> 01:26:59.053
So I was very supportive of Niger in that case. But shortly after the Niger

01:26:59.053 --> 01:27:04.325
kicked France out, they kicked the U.S. out on top of that, which was humiliating for the U.S.

01:27:04.846 --> 01:27:07.903
And we left. We left. As far as I'm aware, we did not raise a fuss.

01:27:08.387 --> 01:27:09.883
But we had recently built a

01:27:09.883 --> 01:27:13.745
huge, multi-million dollar base there that we had to give to the Russians.

01:27:14.225 --> 01:27:19.183
So it was very humiliating for the U.S. And I think part of the reason why that

01:27:19.183 --> 01:27:26.417
happened is because the U.S. has a habit of backing these decaying European powers in Africa.

01:27:26.725 --> 01:27:29.345
And the European influence in Africa is declining.

01:27:30.007 --> 01:27:33.626
It's facing severe pressure from China, from Russia.

01:27:34.296 --> 01:27:36.993
And they're distracted by the Ukraine

01:27:36.993 --> 01:27:40.781
war, the Europeans. And they're just increasingly unable to do anything.

01:27:41.765 --> 01:27:46.409
Even from a real European standpoint, they're unable to do anything constructive in Africa.

01:27:47.183 --> 01:27:50.683
Even for just their own influence, they can't. they can't, they don't have the

01:27:50.683 --> 01:27:53.897
strength anymore. That's why I'm asking myself, why are we backing it?

01:27:54.572 --> 01:27:58.142
Like, the only thing we're getting out of it, even from just a pure,

01:27:58.832 --> 01:28:04.583
like, real politic, like, hard-nosed angle, from just a pure self-interest point

01:28:04.583 --> 01:28:09.172
of view, the only thing we're getting out of backing the Europeans is the Africans' angry at us.

01:28:09.898 --> 01:28:11.773
We're not getting any influence out of it, but they're losing.

01:28:12.284 --> 01:28:13.671
So, like, what are we doing, you know?

01:28:15.029 --> 01:28:19.409
I think it would be better for our point of view as Americans,

01:28:19.409 --> 01:28:20.761
which is the U.S., right,

01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:27.087
if we took a more constructive but direct interest in Africa,

01:28:27.592 --> 01:28:31.667
as opposed to leaning on Europeans, especially our proxies in the region.

01:28:32.288 --> 01:28:36.049
I think it would be better for our interests as Americans. And,

01:28:36.369 --> 01:28:38.409
you know, I know you said just from an American point of view,

01:28:38.409 --> 01:28:42.329
but I also think it would be better for African-Americans specifically if the

01:28:42.329 --> 01:28:45.904
U.S. did this, as opposed to relying on the Europeans in the region.

01:28:46.722 --> 01:28:51.449
Yeah, I mean, it would be the dream of a Leon Sullivan, right,

01:28:51.449 --> 01:28:58.244
who had created, I guess it was the Opportunities Industry Council or something like that, where,

01:28:59.409 --> 01:29:07.431
it was basically his dream to have African-Americans doing business with Africans in straight trade.

01:29:08.034 --> 01:29:14.619
And definitely if we came in, and I think that's what President Obama was trying

01:29:14.619 --> 01:29:16.451
to establish before he left.

01:29:17.046 --> 01:29:22.004
I think that's what Vice President Harris wanted to do if she had gotten to be president.

01:29:22.449 --> 01:29:25.090
You know, she really kind of intimated that.

01:29:26.189 --> 01:29:31.189
And then none of that would have happened if there wasn't an African union that

01:29:31.189 --> 01:29:38.027
had become more stabilized, right, where we could go in and talk to people. So, I.

01:29:39.334 --> 01:29:43.724
You know, everybody says, well, the United States wasn't in the colony business.

01:29:43.724 --> 01:29:48.616
I said, well, Liberia actually was an American colony. And so was,

01:29:49.288 --> 01:29:50.883
to a degree, Sierra Leone.

01:29:51.819 --> 01:29:57.684
You know, because that was the place where a lot of freed slaves decided when

01:29:57.684 --> 01:30:01.444
they took the boat ride back to Africa and that's where they settled.

01:30:02.172 --> 01:30:06.658
So, you know, we were a colonial power, well, a colonial influence,

01:30:07.275 --> 01:30:11.001
even if it was just a little small part. but not like the Europeans.

01:30:11.605 --> 01:30:14.994
And I think you're right. Cause that kind of leads me to my next question.

01:30:15.744 --> 01:30:19.278
What is the soft, soft power advantage?

01:30:22.012 --> 01:30:24.284
So first I want to say that's interesting. Leon Sullivan, I had not heard of

01:30:24.284 --> 01:30:25.751
him in the past, but look him up later.

01:30:26.175 --> 01:30:30.414
So he said he was, he did business. He promoted business cars in the U S and

01:30:30.414 --> 01:30:31.114
Africa. Yeah. Leon Sullivan.

01:30:32.534 --> 01:30:37.214
Leon Sullivan. Yeah. He was a graduate of West Virginia state university and

01:30:37.214 --> 01:30:42.574
he, He had started an organization to develop trade with African nations,

01:30:42.574 --> 01:30:45.773
trying to set up African-American businesses to do trade.

01:30:46.323 --> 01:30:52.480
And, yeah, he it was I guess he set that up like in the 70s, late 70s.

01:30:52.671 --> 01:30:56.188
And it was pretty big in the 80s and the 90s.

01:30:56.741 --> 01:31:01.870
And I think he passed away like either in the late 90s or early 2000s.

01:31:02.497 --> 01:31:05.422
But that was that was kind of his his deal.

01:31:06.278 --> 01:31:10.812
That's fascinating. I never heard of them. I have to do more research on that. Thank you for that.

01:31:12.094 --> 01:31:17.264
As far as soft power, yeah, I think the U.S. has several advantages in terms

01:31:17.264 --> 01:31:23.465
of soft power with Africa, particularly relative to the Chinese and the Europeans,

01:31:24.233 --> 01:31:28.245
one of which, and I think the best one, is the African diaspora,

01:31:28.710 --> 01:31:33.864
in which I would include both recent African immigrants and their descendants

01:31:33.864 --> 01:31:36.168
in the U.S. and African-Americans.

01:31:36.365 --> 01:31:38.200
You know, the entire black population,

01:31:39.443 --> 01:31:43.094
I would include it as part of the African diaspora. And, you know,

01:31:44.029 --> 01:31:46.157
it's a significant edge.

01:31:46.857 --> 01:31:51.413
And I think if the U.S. wants to, quote-unquote, win in Africa,

01:31:51.413 --> 01:31:52.599
it will develop that edge.

01:31:53.115 --> 01:31:58.238
You know, one, the diaspora has always been interested in trade,

01:31:58.813 --> 01:32:03.520
as you said, in trade and in strengthening the African continent.

01:32:03.944 --> 01:32:07.556
There's a long history of that, of engagement with Africa for hundreds of years now.

01:32:08.354 --> 01:32:11.896
And I think harnessing that would be to our mutual benefit.

01:32:12.783 --> 01:32:18.496
All three powders, Africans, the diaspora, and the U.S. country and state.

01:32:18.948 --> 01:32:21.065
I think we'd all benefit from developing that edge.

01:32:22.095 --> 01:32:27.806
For Africans on the continent, you know, the African diaspora represents a huge,

01:32:28.287 --> 01:32:32.876
pro-African voting bloc that could very easily,

01:32:33.573 --> 01:32:38.570
you know, decide to vote for pro-African policy at the national level.

01:32:38.917 --> 01:32:43.535
And I'm kind of surprised that I don't, maybe I'm wrong, but the continental

01:32:43.535 --> 01:32:48.805
Africans have not really developed that very well, which seems to me pretty obvious.

01:32:48.805 --> 01:32:51.915
But, you know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they had not had to have it.

01:32:51.915 --> 01:32:54.591
I would have seen it. But that seems like an edge to me.

01:32:55.137 --> 01:32:59.056
The U.S. is the largest market in the world, the richest market in the world, I should say.

01:32:59.544 --> 01:33:06.873
And so, you know, if the African diaspora would be pro-AGOA,

01:33:07.379 --> 01:33:10.913
you know, the African growth, the opportunity act,

01:33:11.877 --> 01:33:14.802
the act that keeps the U.S. market open for African exports.

01:33:15.261 --> 01:33:18.477
That's a very important act for many African exporters.

01:33:19.017 --> 01:33:23.485
And if the African diaspora was to be in favor of that, like loudly in favor

01:33:23.485 --> 01:33:27.125
of that, enough to sway the government to keep it open, which is not happening

01:33:27.125 --> 01:33:29.155
right now, that would again be the benefit,

01:33:29.787 --> 01:33:34.805
to us in the diaspora, to Africans on the continent, and to the U.S.

01:33:34.805 --> 01:33:39.855
State. Because the U.S. state will be able to put in a policy that benefits

01:33:39.855 --> 01:33:44.665
the continental Africans and help sway them a little more, that little bit more

01:33:44.665 --> 01:33:47.923
to our side against, say, the Chinese or the Russians.

01:33:48.674 --> 01:33:50.149
So I think there's a lot of.

01:33:51.956 --> 01:33:55.657
Beneficial triangulation that can happen between our three sides,

01:33:56.006 --> 01:34:00.656
you know, in the realm of soft part. It doesn't have to be all guns a-blazing military stuff.

01:34:01.729 --> 01:34:05.363
You know, it could just be simple trade, simple diplomacy.

01:34:06.104 --> 01:34:09.806
And I think that we have the three sides to get to work together on that to

01:34:09.806 --> 01:34:11.672
further that for all of us.

01:34:12.348 --> 01:34:18.106
Yeah, because that was the reason why people were so upset when Elon Musk and

01:34:18.106 --> 01:34:22.306
Doge shut down USAID, because that was South power, right?

01:34:22.306 --> 01:34:25.756
That was like we were providing food to countries that needed help.

01:34:25.756 --> 01:34:30.106
We were providing, I think we were providing condoms for some nations,

01:34:30.106 --> 01:34:33.766
you know what I'm saying, to deal with the AIDS epidemic and all that.

01:34:33.766 --> 01:34:39.377
So that was kind of our entryway, whereas like China and Russia,

01:34:39.691 --> 01:34:42.565
even though Russia is part of, quote-unquote, part of Europe.

01:34:43.209 --> 01:34:46.513
They weren't part of the colonizing Europe in Africa.

01:34:47.122 --> 01:34:51.946
And China definitely wasn't. So they've been able to come in with money and

01:34:51.946 --> 01:34:56.966
say, look, you need a port, we'll build you a port. If you need a reservoir

01:34:56.966 --> 01:35:01.025
lake, we'll do that for you. And that's how they've been getting in.

01:35:01.668 --> 01:35:07.134
And so, like you said, we even had a program where...

01:35:08.007 --> 01:35:13.807
The U.S. Department of Agriculture, they'd hooked up with the HBCUs that were

01:35:13.807 --> 01:35:15.554
like land grant schools.

01:35:16.267 --> 01:35:19.558
So they had an agricultural component and they were.

01:35:20.667 --> 01:35:24.427
They were building alliances through like companies like Hershey and others,

01:35:24.938 --> 01:35:29.507
to teach African farmers, especially like those that grow cocoa to,

01:35:29.507 --> 01:35:32.171
you know, grow other crops.

01:35:32.844 --> 01:35:35.903
So they wouldn't be just dependent on that one crop. Right.

01:35:36.484 --> 01:35:41.693
I mean, if you even go back to the, what was that movie with Violet of the Women King, right?

01:35:42.471 --> 01:35:47.757
It was because of their ability to sell palm oil that they were able to say,

01:35:47.757 --> 01:35:52.938
well, we're not going to keep giving y'all bodies to use for the slave trade anymore.

01:35:53.239 --> 01:35:58.177
And that gave them enough power, not only economically, but even to the point

01:35:58.177 --> 01:36:02.237
where they could hold off the Portuguese in battle, right?

01:36:02.237 --> 01:36:11.092
So, yeah, soft power is the way that you're supposed to go as nation states. That's the ideal.

01:36:11.719 --> 01:36:16.711
But like you said, you know, the European model was like, come in,

01:36:17.251 --> 01:36:21.987
show some guns, intimidate some folks, and take over a country or a community,

01:36:21.987 --> 01:36:24.196
right? Right, absolutely. Yeah.

01:36:24.903 --> 01:36:28.085
All right, so let's get back to this Afrofuturism for a moment.

01:36:28.701 --> 01:36:33.385
What role do you think Afrofuturism will play in this year's midterm elections?

01:36:35.559 --> 01:36:41.389
You know, I'm not sure. The vibe I've been getting, and please let me come wrong,

01:36:41.389 --> 01:36:46.389
because I would love to be wrong, is that the black community has been really

01:36:46.389 --> 01:36:50.248
quite hurt by the loss of Kamala Harris in 2024.

01:36:50.801 --> 01:36:58.402
I've seen a lot of memes, you know, a lot of posts about the black community

01:36:58.604 --> 01:37:02.127
kind of taking a step back from a lot of politics, you know.

01:37:02.977 --> 01:37:07.689
Now that doesn't mean I don't think that that they won't vote like I'm not going

01:37:07.689 --> 01:37:12.246
to say they're going to completely check out I'm not saying all that but I think there is a level of,

01:37:12.815 --> 01:37:16.938
disillusionment a level of disenchantment with the black population right now,

01:37:17.385 --> 01:37:21.669
that's the vibe I'm kind of getting and so I've I think there will be a vote

01:37:21.669 --> 01:37:23.852
for like self-preservation,

01:37:24.670 --> 01:37:31.159
you know but I the vibe I'm getting is not one of like excitement or or even of much of much.

01:37:32.348 --> 01:37:38.439
Ideological ferments, you know, I think the most from what I've seen and heard,

01:37:38.439 --> 01:37:45.219
the most aggressive ideological force right now is probably ADOS and FDA like

01:37:45.219 --> 01:37:47.185
those kind of movements, you know, that kind of,

01:37:47.924 --> 01:37:53.781
I wouldn't even know what to call them, nativist kind of movements and there,

01:37:53.926 --> 01:37:57.785
I wouldn't call them democratic, like blue movements at all,

01:37:58.493 --> 01:38:03.829
so I don't know, you know, I think for the most part African Americans will vote Democratic.

01:38:03.829 --> 01:38:06.919
I think we've been quite hurt by this administration, and I think that will

01:38:06.919 --> 01:38:08.855
get people to the polls for the most part.

01:38:09.320 --> 01:38:13.226
But I I'm not seeing much in the way of, like.

01:38:14.489 --> 01:38:17.567
Anything beyond that, you know, and like I said, I would like to be wrong.

01:38:18.374 --> 01:38:22.339
So if you think something else, please, please help me out.

01:38:22.687 --> 01:38:29.839
Well, I think, I think initially, I think, you know, after the November 24 election,

01:38:29.839 --> 01:38:32.206
I think that was seriously the vibe.

01:38:32.932 --> 01:38:38.592
I think since the move to do all that redistricting took place,

01:38:39.318 --> 01:38:43.149
I think that's been kind of the wake up call that it was like,

01:38:43.149 --> 01:38:49.689
okay, Because I know the Sunday after they did the redistricting in Texas,

01:38:49.689 --> 01:38:51.814
or no, the Supreme Court, the Calais decision.

01:38:52.909 --> 01:38:58.139
When they said it was all right to redraw those lines in Louisiana so that Black

01:38:58.139 --> 01:38:59.766
folks would lose representation.

01:39:00.416 --> 01:39:04.959
It was like the Sunday after that, it was like thousands of Black women got

01:39:04.959 --> 01:39:08.804
on Zoom and was like saying, OK, we got to organize for the election.

01:39:09.821 --> 01:39:14.469
And, you know, so I think the vibe that you're kind of feeling is what they

01:39:14.469 --> 01:39:16.619
call in the military trust, but verify.

01:39:17.265 --> 01:39:25.840
Right. It's like we know that the Democratic Party is the party where our best interest is.

01:39:26.800 --> 01:39:30.629
But there are some that felt like the party didn't do enough,

01:39:30.629 --> 01:39:32.878
even though she only had one hundred and seven days.

01:39:33.530 --> 01:39:37.466
They still didn't do enough to make sure that this black woman got what she needed.

01:39:37.756 --> 01:39:41.715
Now, she raised more money in 107 days than any human being on the planet.

01:39:42.201 --> 01:39:47.359
I mean, she she put together a presidential campaign that nobody will ever rival

01:39:47.359 --> 01:39:50.668
ever again just to be close. Right.

01:39:51.283 --> 01:39:56.599
But, you know, a lot of black folks that could have made money as far as consultants

01:39:56.599 --> 01:39:58.028
and stuff were left out of the loop.

01:39:59.321 --> 01:40:03.541
Know, just it just felt kind of like the only black person they were going to

01:40:03.541 --> 01:40:07.282
listen to was her because she was she was the candidate outside of that.

01:40:07.975 --> 01:40:09.740
We were just along for the ride.

01:40:10.454 --> 01:40:15.241
And so I think black folks don't want that. They don't want to be along for

01:40:15.241 --> 01:40:17.472
the ride. They want to have a seat at the table.

01:40:18.124 --> 01:40:23.661
And and to be honest, they want to dictate the term. So South Carolina now next

01:40:23.661 --> 01:40:30.448
in 28 is going to be the first state to hold a primary on the Democratic side again.

01:40:31.098 --> 01:40:34.741
And that was basically, I'm saying, okay, we heard you on that one.

01:40:35.167 --> 01:40:40.221
Now there's still some hurt feelings because Atlanta got denied this week,

01:40:40.221 --> 01:40:46.662
this past week, they got denied the opportunity to make it to the finals for the convention in 28.

01:40:47.415 --> 01:40:49.563
And the mayor got real upset about that.

01:40:50.881 --> 01:40:55.711
You know, they're ignoring black folks again, you know, but But it's like,

01:40:55.711 --> 01:41:02.835
you know, it's kind of a give and take because the Democratic Party is what it is.

01:41:03.777 --> 01:41:11.148
We have a vital role in it. Black women are probably the most solid voting block they have.

01:41:11.720 --> 01:41:16.091
But you have the LGBTQ community, which spans more than just black folks.

01:41:16.091 --> 01:41:20.661
And you've got the Asian American Pacific Islander community,

01:41:20.661 --> 01:41:25.601
which is slowly coming to a majority Democratic Party. We're trying to get the

01:41:25.601 --> 01:41:27.863
Latino community back. Right.

01:41:28.480 --> 01:41:32.322
And that seems thanks to these ICE raids. I think that's happening.

01:41:33.476 --> 01:41:40.486
So, you know, the party has a unique challenge where they have to figure out

01:41:40.486 --> 01:41:46.662
a way that they can put together a platform that lifts all boats.

01:41:47.361 --> 01:41:51.558
And back in the day, they used to do it when I was really involved in politics,

01:41:52.099 --> 01:41:53.735
by just staying down the middle.

01:41:54.464 --> 01:41:58.346
And I don't think we can afford to just stay down the middle this time because

01:41:58.346 --> 01:42:00.681
the other side has gone too far to the right.

01:42:01.287 --> 01:42:06.163
Where if we go to the middle, we'll just be Republican-like.

01:42:07.256 --> 01:42:10.716
You know what I'm saying? We got to push it all the way forward.

01:42:10.716 --> 01:42:16.136
And maybe that's why in your part of the world, you may not be seeing the excitement

01:42:16.136 --> 01:42:22.496
because they may not feel like they're going far enough away from the Republicans,

01:42:23.036 --> 01:42:24.794
to get them excited and generated.

01:42:25.456 --> 01:42:28.396
But, you know, like you said, I think they're going to vote.

01:42:28.396 --> 01:42:34.736
So, you know, it's just because they want to send a message, if nothing else.

01:42:34.951 --> 01:42:38.416
But it's not going to be out of enthusiasm. I think, like you said,

01:42:38.416 --> 01:42:43.114
survivalism, anger, more so than enthusiasm. Right.

01:42:43.613 --> 01:42:48.126
And that leads me to this next question. Well, actually, I got two questions based on this.

01:42:48.126 --> 01:42:52.890
Right. So this past week, this past Thursday, Tuesday in Florida,

01:42:53.502 --> 01:42:58.830
we had a progressive black women win the Democratic nomination for the U.S. Senate.

01:42:59.377 --> 01:43:03.936
But you got a conservative Republican black man as a Republican nominee for

01:43:03.936 --> 01:43:05.351
governor in the same state.

01:43:06.027 --> 01:43:13.074
So my first question is, can those two diverse political thoughts coexist in,

01:43:13.771 --> 01:43:17.928
what we are looking at as Afrofuturism? That's the first question.

01:43:19.117 --> 01:43:24.637
So you're asking me whether progressivism and conservatism can exist in the

01:43:24.637 --> 01:43:26.589
same kind of Afrofuturism.

01:43:27.222 --> 01:43:31.437
That's interesting. As I've read Afrofuturism, Afrofuturism has always seemed

01:43:31.437 --> 01:43:36.497
to me a very, I'll say blue, blue kind of movement, right?

01:43:36.497 --> 01:43:42.907
Very, just what do you expect out of a democratic space today, right?

01:43:43.534 --> 01:43:51.318
So I would say conservatism has not really had much space in Afrofuturism as I've seen.

01:43:53.441 --> 01:43:56.390
So I probably wants to say no,

01:43:58.147 --> 01:44:08.874
you know but I guess Afrofuturism has never as I've seen it outside of being pro-black,

01:44:10.093 --> 01:44:13.302
in that kind of sense in a kind of, like, blue sense.

01:44:13.732 --> 01:44:16.733
It's not really that political. I don't think so.

01:44:17.238 --> 01:44:20.726
And I'm sure when someone hears this, they're going to, like,

01:44:20.900 --> 01:44:22.456
post a link proving me wrong.

01:44:23.409 --> 01:44:26.921
But from what I've seen, it's not expressly political.

01:44:27.227 --> 01:44:31.067
Right? It's not, like, vote here, vote this way, do, like, leave this.

01:44:31.067 --> 01:44:32.215
It doesn't really do that.

01:44:32.597 --> 01:44:39.007
Right? So I guess in an African-futurist world, you could have those two interests

01:44:39.007 --> 01:44:40.757
coincide. And, you know, I guess Yes.

01:44:42.109 --> 01:44:47.709
Of my interests, local interest, is seeing kind of Black people kind of migrate

01:44:47.709 --> 01:44:52.626
to the South in huge numbers enough to kind of flip the South their way, right?

01:44:52.945 --> 01:44:56.139
And so I think if that were to happen, you know, if we consider this kind of

01:44:56.139 --> 01:45:01.009
an Afrofuturist project, if that were to happen, there would naturally be Black

01:45:01.009 --> 01:45:03.598
conservatives doing their thing. Like, they're not going to go away.

01:45:04.269 --> 01:45:10.239
They exist, right? So, and, you know, in that Afrofuturist project,

01:45:10.239 --> 01:45:11.819
they would exist and they would do their thing.

01:45:11.819 --> 01:45:16.990
Would they win maybe i'm sure they would do well you know like i you know i would think.

01:45:17.844 --> 01:45:23.349
Someone like umar johnson you know he's a conservative he's a pan-africanist

01:45:23.349 --> 01:45:27.361
but he's a conservative is he does he into afrofuturism,

01:45:28.073 --> 01:45:32.136
i say yeah i say he could a certain wing of it you know so,

01:45:32.789 --> 01:45:36.909
yes i'm kind of talking myself through it as i'm thinking about it but i guess

01:45:36.909 --> 01:45:41.849
conservatives and professors can't fit together uncomfortably in a sense in

01:45:41.849 --> 01:45:44.689
the kind of sense, but they always fit together uncomfortable anyway.

01:45:44.689 --> 01:45:46.722
So that's nothing new, I guess, at the end of the day.

01:45:47.378 --> 01:45:53.352
Yeah, and I guess going back to the earlier question, if racism was out of the picture, maybe.

01:45:53.969 --> 01:45:58.967
You know, maybe it would be 50-50, you know, because that racism factor which

01:45:59.385 --> 01:46:03.871
predominates conservative politics now wouldn't be in the game.

01:46:04.539 --> 01:46:09.279
All right, so the second question I have is, which one do you think will be

01:46:09.279 --> 01:46:13.166
successful in this election cycle? The progressive black.

01:46:14.643 --> 01:46:20.013
Agenda or the conservative black agenda? So just to clarify,

01:46:20.013 --> 01:46:21.710
by conservative, do you mean Republican?

01:46:21.965 --> 01:46:23.749
Yeah. Republican? Okay.

01:46:24.687 --> 01:46:28.273
I mean, you know, I've read the conservative black agenda. I read them quite a bit.

01:46:29.308 --> 01:46:33.365
It is completely the same as Republican agenda. There's no blackness to it,

01:46:33.574 --> 01:46:36.583
you know? And I think that's why I call them assimilated, you know?

01:46:36.583 --> 01:46:39.565
Because there's no distinction. They just have black skin.

01:46:40.030 --> 01:46:42.311
But other than that, they're the same.

01:46:43.003 --> 01:46:46.913
They have the same interests. the mainstream Republican, right?

01:46:47.499 --> 01:46:52.933
Whereas with a black progressive, they might be very progressive in all of the

01:46:52.933 --> 01:46:58.643
doctrinaire kind of ways, but they also have that black interest that they all tend to espouse.

01:46:58.643 --> 01:47:02.669
They have like a, here's what I'll do for black people list, right?

01:47:02.907 --> 01:47:05.083
Whereas black conservatives do not have that.

01:47:07.798 --> 01:47:11.968
I think black progress I think they'll both win they'll have their wins but

01:47:11.968 --> 01:47:16.128
black conservative wins will not look like anything different from black from

01:47:16.128 --> 01:47:17.968
regular it's just the same.

01:47:19.895 --> 01:47:24.078
Whereas black progressives have some distinction about them so I think they'll

01:47:24.078 --> 01:47:29.268
both have their wins in this race between republican gerrymandering and democratic

01:47:29.268 --> 01:47:33.100
turnout I'm not sure who will come out on top between the two I'm not sure,

01:47:34.298 --> 01:47:37.733
I'm hedging by saying they'll both do okay They'll both get their wins here and there.

01:47:38.313 --> 01:47:41.588
But at least with the black Congressors, you'll see what a win looks like with

01:47:41.588 --> 01:47:43.008
them. You'll see the distinction.

01:47:43.589 --> 01:47:46.375
You won't see any distinction with the black conservatives at all.

01:47:46.973 --> 01:47:51.678
Yeah, and I totally agree with that because I'm old enough to remember Edward

01:47:51.678 --> 01:47:57.388
Brooke, who was a Republican U.S. Senator from Massachusetts.

01:47:58.133 --> 01:48:04.512
And, you know, he would not be a part of the Republican Party that's existing now.

01:48:05.098 --> 01:48:10.208
You know, I got a friend at less range, people like Thomas Sewell.

01:48:10.753 --> 01:48:16.111
I don't think those guys would fit in this current Republican setup,

01:48:16.378 --> 01:48:18.288
but they're black conservatives. Right.

01:48:18.875 --> 01:48:23.628
And I forget Armstrong's last name. I want to say Williams, but that might not

01:48:23.628 --> 01:48:28.650
be right. But I just saw him. He was actually covering the Democratic National Convention 24.

01:48:29.139 --> 01:48:34.045
But he was one of those guys that was like, I'm a conservative,

01:48:34.480 --> 01:48:36.994
but I'm not a shill for the Republican Party. Right.

01:48:37.626 --> 01:48:40.395
And even and even Mega Evers, brother Charles.

01:48:42.141 --> 01:48:47.277
After Bobby Kennedy died, he started becoming more of a conservative.

01:48:47.884 --> 01:48:52.058
But I'll never forget him telling me it was like he said, Eric, I'm black first.

01:48:52.769 --> 01:48:56.911
And if I can get the black agenda carried through the Republican Party,

01:48:56.911 --> 01:48:59.903
then that's what I'm going to do, just like you do on the Democratic Party.

01:49:00.688 --> 01:49:06.120
So, you know, I think that's what you're basically saying.

01:49:07.201 --> 01:49:10.661
If the Black conservative agenda is no different than the white conservative

01:49:10.661 --> 01:49:13.881
agenda, then it doesn't benefit the Black community.

01:49:14.845 --> 01:49:20.191
And it's hard to get current Black conservatives to understand that.

01:49:20.191 --> 01:49:22.319
But, you know, it is what it is.

01:49:23.054 --> 01:49:26.067
In 2023, you wrote this for Afro News.

01:49:26.941 --> 01:49:30.434
This black power is not the black power of yesteryear.

01:49:31.113 --> 01:49:35.914
So my question to you is, how has black power evolved over the last 60 years?

01:49:36.326 --> 01:49:41.021
And are we closer to self-reliance throughout the African diaspora based on that?

01:49:42.460 --> 01:49:47.693
The way i see a black power over the past 60 years has become bluer,

01:49:48.348 --> 01:49:52.570
and you know in terms of being more democratic aligned more and i mean that

01:49:52.570 --> 01:49:57.421
not in terms of just voting for the party i mean culturally it's become bluer,

01:49:57.932 --> 01:50:02.117
right like the black power is more expressly,

01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:07.800
pro lgbt for example there's more expressly pro-feminist it's it's,

01:50:08.518 --> 01:50:12.436
just it's just bluer it's a stronger part of that coalition in a cultural sense,

01:50:12.814 --> 01:50:14.805
not just a pragmatic sense. You know?

01:50:15.240 --> 01:50:19.547
So I would say black people who are pro-black power, they now,

01:50:20.281 --> 01:50:23.235
most of them simply truly believe these other things.

01:50:23.891 --> 01:50:26.934
You know? And they tie them into their black power ideology.

01:50:27.854 --> 01:50:32.650
People like, I mean, again, Umar Johnson, he's pro-black power,

01:50:32.650 --> 01:50:34.290
but he's very conservative. You know?

01:50:34.615 --> 01:50:38.423
And people like that are not in the driver's seat right now.

01:50:39.073 --> 01:50:43.183
It's the black power, liberals and progressives who are on the driver's seat.

01:50:43.798 --> 01:50:49.204
And I think that has been the major change in Black power in terms of this, on this topic here.

01:50:49.939 --> 01:50:54.430
In terms of, what was that term you used again? Self-reliance.

01:50:54.430 --> 01:50:57.171
Thank you. It's a difficult question to answer.

01:50:58.699 --> 01:51:02.340
We are a minority, you know, and so there's a limit to how far self-reliance

01:51:02.340 --> 01:51:04.500
can go as a minority group, right?

01:51:05.767 --> 01:51:11.806
The Black economy is not large enough to support all Black people. It just isn't, you know?

01:51:13.600 --> 01:51:18.601
And the black voter base is not large enough to do what it wants on its own.

01:51:19.831 --> 01:51:21.932
Without other groups in the Democratic Party, we would lose.

01:51:23.140 --> 01:51:28.212
And so there's a limit to our self-reliance. I think we've gotten richer over the past 60 years.

01:51:29.780 --> 01:51:34.890
Black poverty has fallen by about 30%, 40% since civil rights.

01:51:35.700 --> 01:51:39.162
So we're doing better than we were 60 years ago, for sure.

01:51:40.680 --> 01:51:44.990
Our vote is more important now than, I mean, obviously. obviously no months

01:51:44.990 --> 01:51:48.140
before we can vote right so so we're we're,

01:51:48.720 --> 01:51:52.510
we're a lot stronger than we were 60 years ago but are we more self-reliant

01:51:52.510 --> 01:51:54.806
can we go on our own no i don't think so,

01:51:55.321 --> 01:51:59.090
and i truthfully i don't think we'll ever get there personally i think we can

01:51:59.090 --> 01:52:01.230
keep getting stronger and reaching

01:52:01.230 --> 01:52:05.916
new levels of wealth and power and i think that is a worthwhile aim,

01:52:06.524 --> 01:52:08.650
but i think self-reliance in terms of like,

01:52:09.396 --> 01:52:13.260
we only rely on ourselves we go it alone and we do what we want with no one

01:52:13.260 --> 01:52:17.360
else to answer to i think that is probably not going to happen at least not

01:52:17.360 --> 01:52:21.428
anytime soon yeah yeah i when you say that,

01:52:22.380 --> 01:52:27.520
we were talking about tv shows there's this the man in the high castle i don't

01:52:27.520 --> 01:52:33.391
know if you ever saw that show or not i think it was on either amazon or a and e but,

01:52:34.700 --> 01:52:37.875
if if you if it's a Spoiler alert, the black folks won.

01:52:39.880 --> 01:52:42.830
Because what happened, this was

01:52:42.830 --> 01:52:49.041
the scenario that Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire won World War II.

01:52:49.596 --> 01:52:52.690
So the western half of the United States was controlled by Japan,

01:52:53.142 --> 01:52:55.632
and the eastern half was controlled by the Nazis.

01:52:56.170 --> 01:53:00.740
But the black folks had figured, had gotten out of the South and had basically

01:53:00.740 --> 01:53:03.270
taken over the area that we call the Rocky Mountains.

01:53:04.427 --> 01:53:07.657
And because it was it was considered no man's land. You couldn't really build

01:53:07.657 --> 01:53:09.314
anything there new or anything.

01:53:09.674 --> 01:53:14.915
So it was just kind of like that was the border between the Nazis and Japanese.

01:53:15.344 --> 01:53:17.086
And so black folks inhabited that.

01:53:17.698 --> 01:53:22.308
So basically, the resistance came from the black folks in the Rockies.

01:53:22.726 --> 01:53:26.551
So when they find when the Nazis and the Japanese were finally defeated,

01:53:27.224 --> 01:53:29.827
it was the black folks that that did it. They were, they were,

01:53:29.827 --> 01:53:30.992
they led the resistance.

01:53:32.158 --> 01:53:37.677
So, you know, when you see a country divided up like that, I think that's about

01:53:37.677 --> 01:53:42.217
the only scenario where black folks could have their self-reliance.

01:53:42.217 --> 01:53:45.157
Like you were talking about all black folks moving to the South.

01:53:45.157 --> 01:53:48.044
That was the original concept of Republic of New Africa.

01:53:48.715 --> 01:53:53.154
Charles Blow just did a documentary saying, what if black folks all moved to the South? Right.

01:53:53.759 --> 01:53:58.354
And so that's kind of been like a dream for a long time.

01:53:58.877 --> 01:54:04.327
I just, I always used to mess with my friends in the nation of Islam. I'm going to let you go.

01:54:06.859 --> 01:54:11.319
You know, I was always invited to speak at the mosque, and I support what they're

01:54:11.319 --> 01:54:13.767
doing to uplift Black men and Black women.

01:54:14.418 --> 01:54:20.127
But the question I always ask them is like, I understand y'all want to get farms and all that stuff.

01:54:20.746 --> 01:54:23.194
Any of y'all decided y'all going to start building some tanks?

01:54:23.491 --> 01:54:26.365
Any of y'all decided y'all going to start making bullets and guns?

01:54:26.684 --> 01:54:28.839
Because that's the only way we're going to be able to pull this off.

01:54:28.839 --> 01:54:30.620
You know what I'm saying? We're going to have to fight for it.

01:54:31.141 --> 01:54:34.349
You know, it's not like a bunch of our folks are just going to steal some stuff

01:54:34.349 --> 01:54:39.354
from the U.S. Army and the U.S. military and, you know, fight the battle for us.

01:54:39.992 --> 01:54:43.709
We're going to have to make our own stuff if we're serious about creating our

01:54:43.709 --> 01:54:46.885
own nation. I mean, Haiti did it. In 1804, they did it.

01:54:47.899 --> 01:54:52.327
So it's possible if they did it with swords and knives and muskets.

01:54:53.063 --> 01:54:55.459
I think if we had the right equipment, we could pull it off.

01:54:55.459 --> 01:54:58.282
But to me, that's the only way,

01:54:58.997 --> 01:55:03.419
we could get to that point, not unless there is a total buy-in where it's like,

01:55:03.419 --> 01:55:07.518
well, black folks, we're just going to leave these cities where we've developed political power,

01:55:08.188 --> 01:55:15.125
and just reinvest in the South and make Atlanta or Birmingham the capital, Jackson, I don't know.

01:55:15.275 --> 01:55:18.349
You know what I'm saying? Memphis, one of them cities will be the capital.

01:55:18.349 --> 01:55:23.479
And then we all move down there. But I'm just, that's my only thing about that.

01:55:23.479 --> 01:55:26.822
But it's a discussion that we really need to have.

01:55:26.932 --> 01:55:32.883
And I think in the concept of Afrofuturism, that's really a discussion that we need to have.

01:55:33.480 --> 01:55:36.449
So, look, I'm going to let you go, but I got a couple of things I need to do

01:55:36.449 --> 01:55:40.834
first. First is a challenge I offer all the guests this year.

01:55:41.181 --> 01:55:42.859
I need you to finish this sentence.

01:55:43.346 --> 01:55:45.030
I have hope because.

01:55:46.171 --> 01:55:50.356
I have hope because there's always a new day. All right.

01:55:50.810 --> 01:55:54.326
Now, the other thing is, how can people reach out to you?

01:55:54.727 --> 01:55:59.034
How can people read your writings? Do you have a website, the email?

01:55:59.492 --> 01:56:01.948
Go ahead and where you at on social media, all this stuff.

01:56:03.410 --> 01:56:06.803
Yeah. By far, my main presence is on Quora.

01:56:07.244 --> 01:56:11.800
It's kind of a Q&A site. It's spelled Q-U-O-R-A.

01:56:12.455 --> 01:56:19.310
And my name is Keon Charles. That's K-E-A-U-N Charles.

01:56:19.857 --> 01:56:22.783
And you can find me on there. I have a picture of an orange robot.

01:56:23.490 --> 01:56:26.210
It knows me. I have a good amount of...

01:56:27.016 --> 01:56:30.483
You'll see me. That's where my main presence is.

01:56:30.966 --> 01:56:34.150
I have a link tree. It's kind of hard to give out the URL for it.

01:56:34.150 --> 01:56:40.230
It's kind of a bunch of random letters and stuff. But if you find me on Quora

01:56:40.230 --> 01:56:41.515
and you ask for it, I'll give it to you.

01:56:42.283 --> 01:56:47.070
And those are really the two main things. Yeah, and the link tree is like a

01:56:47.070 --> 01:56:49.474
direct link to all your writings and stuff.

01:56:50.279 --> 01:56:55.045
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I have all the writings from Afro, which we talked about.

01:56:55.304 --> 01:57:00.520
Some writings were like his papers uh book and all that other stuff but yeah

01:57:00.520 --> 01:57:05.460
so but if you if you find that core i can keep that link if you want to well

01:57:05.460 --> 01:57:09.424
keon charles i i greatly appreciate the other thing i want to tell y'all is that,

01:57:10.176 --> 01:57:13.868
so apparently keanu reeves middle name is charles.

01:57:14.686 --> 01:57:19.230
And so some people will like hit that is like and it was like keanu reeves no

01:57:19.230 --> 01:57:21.339
i'm trying to find a brother, where the brother at, right?

01:57:22.030 --> 01:57:29.183
So, but it's Keon, K-E apostrophe, capital A-U-N, Charles.

01:57:29.930 --> 01:57:33.290
If you type it in that way, you'll get directly to this brother here.

01:57:33.290 --> 01:57:38.844
And Keon, again, man, I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate you reaching out to me.

01:57:39.489 --> 01:57:43.507
And one of the rules is that, you know, now that you've been on the show,

01:57:44.136 --> 01:57:46.930
you have an open invitation to come back. So I know you're going to have a lot

01:57:46.930 --> 01:57:50.696
on your mind If you decide to write a book that's going to stay on the shelf,

01:57:52.965 --> 01:57:57.470
please come on back. Or if you decide I'm going to put the book on the shelf,

01:57:57.470 --> 01:57:58.846
now we can talk about it some more.

01:57:59.305 --> 01:58:02.370
Just feel free to come back on, brother. I enjoyed the conversation.

01:58:02.526 --> 01:58:03.826
Look forward to the next time.

01:58:04.643 --> 01:58:07.830
Thank you. All right, guys. And we're going to catch you all on the other side.

01:58:20.721 --> 01:58:26.436
And we are back. So I want to thank Erica Kent, Aaron Bosslin,

01:58:27.093 --> 01:58:31.731
and Keon Charles for coming on to the podcast again. Incredible interviews.

01:58:32.060 --> 01:58:37.434
I hope that you've taken away some good information from all of those.

01:58:38.004 --> 01:58:45.071
Please, if you're a young man that wants to get involved in a reproductive rights

01:58:45.071 --> 01:58:51.268
fight, reach out to Aaron. And please buy Erica's book, Black Dog.

01:58:51.385 --> 01:58:53.369
It's a great, great book, like I said.

01:58:54.019 --> 01:58:59.101
And, you know, if you want to talk about Afrofuturism or anything else going

01:58:59.101 --> 01:59:03.971
on in the African diaspora, Keon Charles is available for dialogue.

01:59:03.971 --> 01:59:08.881
I think all three of those people are doing some really, really cool things.

01:59:08.881 --> 01:59:13.472
And I'm really, really glad that I was able to share some space on the podcast with them.

01:59:14.221 --> 01:59:18.362
All right. So real quick. Natalie Harp.

01:59:19.365 --> 01:59:26.104
So there's this 35-year-old woman who is obsessed with the president,

01:59:26.830 --> 01:59:32.011
and she has now been called the human printer based on her proximity to the

01:59:32.011 --> 01:59:37.562
president and printing out that some people have called her the diaper lady, all this other stuff.

01:59:38.249 --> 01:59:42.731
But, you know, her close proximity to the president has given her that title,

01:59:42.731 --> 01:59:47.721
human printer because he's printing out stuff that's positive for him to read,

01:59:47.721 --> 01:59:51.597
whether it's truthful or not, to kind of keep his spirits up, I guess. I don't know.

01:59:52.621 --> 01:59:58.826
She's the one who's doing all these overnight true social things,

01:59:59.621 --> 02:00:03.831
including the meme that depicted the Obamas as apes.

02:00:05.228 --> 02:00:08.955
You know, when I see people like Scott Jennings and all them folks getting upset

02:00:09.228 --> 02:00:13.488
about us, John Ossoff just mentioned her name. He didn't say she was sleeping

02:00:13.488 --> 02:00:16.888
with the president and like that. He just think he said something about her

02:00:16.888 --> 02:00:18.576
sitting in the president's lap or whatever.

02:00:19.166 --> 02:00:25.828
OK, it's like you you literally applauded when she put that post out about the Obama being apes.

02:00:25.828 --> 02:00:28.858
Y'all are the ones going around saying that Michelle Obama is a man.

02:00:28.858 --> 02:00:35.468
Y'all that are going around and calling black women in Congress women with low

02:00:35.468 --> 02:00:39.198
IQs. When the president says it, you say, right on, Mr. President.

02:00:39.198 --> 02:00:42.829
But if we said that about any Republican women, you lose your mind.

02:00:43.520 --> 02:00:45.929
So forgive me if I don't care what y'all got to say about that.

02:00:46.627 --> 02:00:51.492
Right. That's a wrap. That's done. We don't care how your feelings are hurt.

02:00:52.198 --> 02:00:55.688
What I want you to do is pay attention to this Eminem song. And there's this

02:00:55.688 --> 02:01:00.232
one young comedian on Instagram who caught the same thing I did.

02:01:00.995 --> 02:01:03.774
So there was this song that Eminem did called Stand.

02:01:04.594 --> 02:01:10.808
And it was basically about colloquialism. I think that's where we get the term

02:01:10.808 --> 02:01:16.162
from, from that song. Because this guy was an obsessed fan of Eminem.

02:01:16.850 --> 02:01:21.938
And he eventually catches Eminem and puts him in the trunk of a car and throws

02:01:21.938 --> 02:01:24.762
him over a river because Eminem didn't acknowledge him.

02:01:25.389 --> 02:01:30.038
All the times he was writing all this Obsessed Mayo, not understanding the fact

02:01:30.038 --> 02:01:34.718
that Eminem is like, at that time was like the hottest thing in rap and he wasn't

02:01:34.718 --> 02:01:38.238
reading all these letters. Now, Eminem has created this character.

02:01:38.238 --> 02:01:39.526
This has not really happened.

02:01:40.094 --> 02:01:44.168
This was a character he created and did a rap song called Stand and it was about

02:01:44.168 --> 02:01:48.668
an obsessive fan. And it was basically a warning to his contemporaries.

02:01:48.668 --> 02:01:51.399
It's like, there are people like this out here, right? Right.

02:01:53.021 --> 02:01:56.670
President of the United States has a stand, and her name is Natalie Harp.

02:01:57.672 --> 02:02:02.171
And, you know, whether you love or hate or despise this man,

02:02:02.647 --> 02:02:08.597
he is still the President of the United States, and he has a stand literally next to him.

02:02:09.234 --> 02:02:16.501
He is so convinced that when they switched planes for him after the NATO summit,

02:02:17.601 --> 02:02:20.601
in Turkey, when they switched, it was either the NATO or G summit,

02:02:20.601 --> 02:02:22.151
whatever summit they just had in Turkey.

02:02:22.151 --> 02:02:27.322
When he had to switch out of the Qatari plane and go into this military plane,

02:02:28.025 --> 02:02:32.531
she was one of the ones allowed to go with him on the military plane while all

02:02:32.531 --> 02:02:36.454
the rest of the staff and the young lady, what's it, Caroline Levitt,

02:02:36.866 --> 02:02:40.533
she had to stay on the regular, on the A-1.

02:02:41.319 --> 02:02:46.632
And they had to take the breath away, but she, this Natalie Harper woman, went up, right?

02:02:47.414 --> 02:02:50.901
But and what what you need to understand while y'all trying to,

02:02:50.901 --> 02:02:57.949
quote unquote, defend this woman that you don't know is that there's a problem with that.

02:02:58.749 --> 02:03:03.001
Now, I know that the president likes to have yes men and yes women around him.

02:03:03.001 --> 02:03:06.365
He doesn't want anybody to tell him no, this second administration. But.

02:03:08.541 --> 02:03:12.621
You still have to be careful about people that obsess over you.

02:03:12.621 --> 02:03:16.981
Some of the notes that she has written, some of the things she has written to

02:03:16.981 --> 02:03:24.341
the president, if you listen to that song, Stan, it's right along that same genre, that same tree.

02:03:27.614 --> 02:03:29.819
And just for historical perspective, right?

02:03:32.071 --> 02:03:37.345
So, you know, the Secret Service was kind of like, we're not really cool with this woman.

02:03:37.850 --> 02:03:42.450
And the president pretty much said, yeah, I don't care. I want her around me. Right.

02:03:43.072 --> 02:03:48.055
It took her a year to get security clearance because she didn't want to go through the process.

02:03:48.965 --> 02:03:52.552
And finally, the president just said she's got the clearance. Keep it moving.

02:03:53.261 --> 02:03:58.975
So he's basically tied the hands of Secret Service. But if you so John F.

02:03:58.975 --> 02:04:05.075
Kennedy had a young lady, excuse me, that was pretty close to him.

02:04:05.075 --> 02:04:10.025
For those who are still sensitive, even after 60, 70 years about hearing that

02:04:10.025 --> 02:04:15.115
John F. K. was not faithful to his wife, Jackie, you can cover your ears.

02:04:15.115 --> 02:04:17.294
But for the rest of us that understand history.

02:04:19.254 --> 02:04:24.104
A young woman who President Kennedy got really, really close to,

02:04:24.319 --> 02:04:25.754
and we believe intimately.

02:04:26.434 --> 02:04:32.474
And the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, had to step in because the Secret Service obviously

02:04:32.474 --> 02:04:35.104
was not convincing the president that she shouldn't be around.

02:04:35.104 --> 02:04:38.514
So J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI director, had to step in and say,

02:04:38.514 --> 02:04:43.275
she cannot come around anymore because she is East German.

02:04:44.284 --> 02:04:47.974
So we don't know what her intent is. Her intent may have been just to kick it

02:04:47.974 --> 02:04:49.485
with the president. That's fine.

02:04:50.503 --> 02:04:55.221
It's like you don't want to take that chance, right? It was a security risk.

02:04:55.825 --> 02:05:01.194
So whatever was going on with Kennedy and that woman had to end because the

02:05:01.194 --> 02:05:06.285
people who were in charge of protecting the president said she can't come around anymore.

02:05:07.525 --> 02:05:13.955
And, you know, instead of being upset about this Natalie Harp woman,

02:05:14.396 --> 02:05:17.014
what you need to be doing is asking questions like,

02:05:18.052 --> 02:05:22.164
how did somebody this emotionally unstable get that close to the president where

02:05:22.164 --> 02:05:23.671
now we can't separate them?

02:05:24.449 --> 02:05:31.124
Right. Because if I'm just telling you, if he does them because he does stuff

02:05:31.124 --> 02:05:36.277
to piss even the closest people he has off. Right.

02:05:37.043 --> 02:05:41.104
He'd throw anybody under the bus. And then down the road, like with Michael

02:05:41.104 --> 02:05:43.499
Cohen, he'll come on his talk show or whatever.

02:05:43.986 --> 02:05:49.224
Anyway, you literally put this man in jail. And then now, years later,

02:05:49.224 --> 02:05:54.944
y'all are supposed to be cool. And you think somehow he has recanted all the

02:05:54.944 --> 02:05:56.349
negative stuff he said about you.

02:05:57.047 --> 02:06:01.241
Anyway, that shows that the man ain't all there. But, you know,

02:06:01.502 --> 02:06:04.176
you've got to stop this guy from,

02:06:05.114 --> 02:06:10.234
If he says something to piss this woman off, right, and she's at that kind of

02:06:10.234 --> 02:06:16.983
proximity to him, and she is, you know, that obsessed with him, that can be a problem.

02:06:18.274 --> 02:06:23.586
You'll be looking at us saying, you'll be trying to say that she was secretly a Democrat, right?

02:06:24.110 --> 02:06:28.854
Instead of, wait a minute, just before all this happened, y'all were defending

02:06:28.854 --> 02:06:31.831
the woman. Y'all were jumping on us for even mentioning her name.

02:06:32.678 --> 02:06:38.623
And now, you know, and why are we talking about her when he is married and there's a first lady?

02:06:38.825 --> 02:06:41.258
We haven't said anything about her in months.

02:06:42.077 --> 02:06:47.010
She literally just had a special, just to remind us, I guess she's still the first lady, on Amazon.

02:06:47.852 --> 02:06:53.283
But we're talking about this Natalie Harp woman instead of the First Lady. Why is that? Right?

02:06:54.132 --> 02:06:58.104
That's some questions y'all might need to ask. But y'all are trying to hide

02:06:58.104 --> 02:06:59.764
whether Mitch McConnell is still alive or not.

02:06:59.764 --> 02:07:05.004
So y'all got a lot of things going on. I wish all the energy you put on lying

02:07:05.004 --> 02:07:09.674
about Mitch McConnell and protecting Natalie Harp that you would put on doing

02:07:09.674 --> 02:07:12.629
something to help the American people,

02:07:13.553 --> 02:07:15.654
through this economic crunch that we're going through.

02:07:15.654 --> 02:07:18.747
If you would do that, you might get salvaged.

02:07:19.517 --> 02:07:23.719
You might fend off the damage like Biden was able to do during his midterm.

02:07:24.277 --> 02:07:25.635
You might be able to do that.

02:07:26.401 --> 02:07:31.716
But y'all ain't got a clue because y'all are morally bankrupt.

02:07:32.594 --> 02:07:36.936
So when you're morally bankrupt, y'all be on bankrupt. Y'all are in receivership

02:07:37.237 --> 02:07:39.486
at this particular point, morally.

02:07:40.043 --> 02:07:43.636
So, you know, but I wanted to.

02:07:45.253 --> 02:07:50.173
Need to take this seriously. When you got somebody, I won't say crazy because

02:07:50.173 --> 02:07:55.783
I'm not a psychologist, but this obsessed with any human being that close to

02:07:55.783 --> 02:07:57.586
the human being they're obsessed with,

02:07:58.416 --> 02:08:00.936
that's a security risk.

02:08:01.729 --> 02:08:06.633
And if y'all want to go to y'all grave and watch the president go to his grave

02:08:06.633 --> 02:08:11.622
because y'all want to defend this woman and she snaps on him, that's on y'all.

02:08:12.484 --> 02:08:16.733
I think John Ossoff did a favor by highlighting the fact that this woman is

02:08:16.733 --> 02:08:20.258
this close to a sitting president of the United States.

02:08:21.351 --> 02:08:24.933
And history has showed us that we're not comfortable with that.

02:08:25.976 --> 02:08:28.211
We have taken steps to make sure that doesn't happen.

02:08:29.307 --> 02:08:34.242
Anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest. Now, the other thing that's,

02:08:34.690 --> 02:08:39.057
got me pissed off about the president, among a myriad to other things.

02:08:40.102 --> 02:08:41.867
And P.K. Hegseff, who...

02:08:43.776 --> 02:08:49.086
I don't care how he explains his tattoos. I don't care how he explains the pocket

02:08:49.086 --> 02:08:52.868
square in his suit coat or anything else.

02:08:54.027 --> 02:08:57.150
If you don't understand that he's racist, then I don't know.

02:08:58.417 --> 02:09:03.960
I guess he has to go to the Smithsonian before they hide it and just go and put the Klan robe on.

02:09:05.115 --> 02:09:11.276
So there is a ship that is being built right now that is supposed to be named

02:09:11.276 --> 02:09:15.062
after the mess cook, the black man, Dory Miller.

02:09:15.521 --> 02:09:20.161
His real name is Doris, but we referred to him when I was growing up as Dory Miller.

02:09:20.689 --> 02:09:26.756
The mess cook who literally, during Pearl Harbor, manned a gun on one of the

02:09:26.756 --> 02:09:31.636
aircraft carriers that had not sunk yet and started shooting at the Japanese

02:09:31.636 --> 02:09:35.356
planes attacking Pearl Harbor, actually getting credit for shooting down one.

02:09:35.356 --> 02:09:39.289
He may have shot down more, but they definitely know he shot down one of them, right?

02:09:39.835 --> 02:09:44.568
And he was pulling people off of the ship as it was sinking, saving lives.

02:09:44.818 --> 02:09:49.968
So this mess cook, this black man who was a mess cook, got the naval cross,

02:09:50.657 --> 02:09:56.556
the Navy cross for his heroism at Pearl Harbor. And I think he died in another battle.

02:09:56.916 --> 02:10:00.129
I don't think he died at Pearl Harbor, but he died in action.

02:10:01.773 --> 02:10:06.205
So they wanted to name the next aircraft carrier after him.

02:10:06.839 --> 02:10:09.811
Oh, no, not with Pete Hegseth as the Secretary of Defense.

02:10:10.597 --> 02:10:13.308
Name something after a black person? Oh, no.

02:10:14.183 --> 02:10:18.014
No, we're not going to do that. We're going to name that after Donald Trump,

02:10:18.925 --> 02:10:23.968
right, who never spent a minute in the United States military.

02:10:24.531 --> 02:10:27.723
He was given the title of Commander-in-Chief because he was elected president.

02:10:28.102 --> 02:10:30.696
That's the only connection he's ever had with the military in his life.

02:10:31.713 --> 02:10:36.753
He went to military academy. That's not, he didn't go to the U.S.

02:10:36.753 --> 02:10:39.453
Military academy, U.S. naval academy, U.S. air force academy.

02:10:39.453 --> 02:10:41.937
He went to some high school academy, right? Private school.

02:10:42.949 --> 02:10:46.154
And then borrowed somebody else's medals for his senior picture.

02:10:47.146 --> 02:10:52.305
Right? Not that guy. They wanted to name a boy after that guy instead of the guy.

02:10:54.787 --> 02:11:00.819
Actually fought in a war, who actually shot down the enemy, who actually saved other sailors.

02:11:01.678 --> 02:11:06.807
Now, if he was David Miller, a white guy, I guess we wouldn't be having this

02:11:06.807 --> 02:11:11.412
conversation, but because his name was Dory Miller and he was a black mess cook,

02:11:12.382 --> 02:11:17.143
we're just going to take that honor for him even before the ship is finished, right?

02:11:20.130 --> 02:11:24.206
So, you know, I just, but you want black people to vote for you.

02:11:25.527 --> 02:11:27.719
You know what I'm saying? You want black people to support you,

02:11:28.392 --> 02:11:32.113
but you would do little petty stuff like that. And, you know, I get it.

02:11:32.738 --> 02:11:37.777
And I think it's ironic. I get it that you want to rename Dulles Airport after

02:11:37.777 --> 02:11:42.499
President Trump, you know, if, especially if President Trump decides to,

02:11:43.264 --> 02:11:49.714
is allowed to spend his money to renovate it or whatever, even though it's not a federal airport,

02:11:50.882 --> 02:11:54.312
but he wants to rebuild it, I guess, in his image. I don't know.

02:11:55.122 --> 02:12:00.609
But I think it's ironic that Dulles is the one, outside of one in Palm Beach,

02:12:01.246 --> 02:12:05.199
which may have actually participated in trafficking young girls, right?

02:12:05.558 --> 02:12:10.699
You want to rename Dulles, named after the guy who created the mess,

02:12:11.328 --> 02:12:18.254
who set in motion the mess that's in Iran now, after the guy who's made it worse, right?

02:12:19.256 --> 02:12:24.476
Asha David, the Islamic Republic of Iran airport, because that's the connection,

02:12:25.101 --> 02:12:29.747
of those two names. Dallas was the one who put the shot in, and now Donald Trump

02:12:29.747 --> 02:12:31.947
is the reason why the straight out of Hamus is.

02:12:33.987 --> 02:12:39.996
No longer safe to vote in, not unless you're Iranian or friends of the Iranians, right?

02:12:41.360 --> 02:12:44.719
You gave them a nuclear weapon. They don't need a bomb.

02:12:44.963 --> 02:12:48.907
All they need to do is just shoot any ship that they want to coming through

02:12:48.907 --> 02:12:51.028
the strait. You gave them a weapon.

02:12:51.901 --> 02:12:59.031
So, you know, I guess, ironically, it fits if you want to rename Dulles after Trump, right?

02:13:01.269 --> 02:13:09.069
That and then in Florida, Alexander Vindman, who his brother,

02:13:09.069 --> 02:13:11.109
I think, got elected to Congress in Virginia.

02:13:11.109 --> 02:13:14.859
And Alexander moved to Florida and he was running for the U.S.

02:13:14.859 --> 02:13:17.769
Senate, raised about $16 million.

02:13:19.084 --> 02:13:22.643
I don't know if he spent it all, but I know he raised $16 million to run for the U.S. Senate.

02:13:23.408 --> 02:13:27.345
And everybody's like, oh, yeah, he's going to win. He's going to win. He's going to win.

02:13:28.005 --> 02:13:32.379
But he was running against a sister named Angie Nixon. Angie Nixon had been

02:13:32.379 --> 02:13:35.227
a state legislator for a while in Florida.

02:13:36.829 --> 02:13:42.250
She was the one who basically challenged DeSantis when he showed up in her district,

02:13:43.169 --> 02:13:48.269
trying to talk about why we need police protection and why we need to cut school

02:13:48.269 --> 02:13:49.329
budgets and all this stuff.

02:13:49.329 --> 02:13:53.837
And she basically told him, why are you here? None of us voted for you.

02:13:55.625 --> 02:14:00.465
Not in support of anything that you're proposing. So why are you here other

02:14:00.465 --> 02:14:03.353
than just being audacious?

02:14:04.613 --> 02:14:08.062
You know, he said some choice words to her and eventually he left.

02:14:09.125 --> 02:14:14.975
Right. She single-handedly shut down for a couple of days the redistricting

02:14:14.975 --> 02:14:20.605
move in Florida, which led to Debbie Washington Schultz ending up representing

02:14:20.605 --> 02:14:22.994
a historically black congressional district.

02:14:25.157 --> 02:14:30.105
It's okay it's all right i mean it could have been worse could be a republican,

02:14:30.975 --> 02:14:35.975
so you know it so basically deborah washington schultz has become the new steve

02:14:35.975 --> 02:14:41.125
cohen right all the black folks had some jews ran in this race and the one little

02:14:41.125 --> 02:14:42.792
white woman got in there and she won,

02:14:43.345 --> 02:14:47.042
right steve cohen when harold ford ran for the u.s senate,

02:14:47.794 --> 02:14:52.014
steve cohen ran against every black important politician in Memphis,

02:14:52.560 --> 02:14:57.542
and while they beat each other up, Steve walked in and got the seat, right?

02:14:58.105 --> 02:15:01.750
And was there until they carved up Memphis three ways.

02:15:02.481 --> 02:15:06.895
I think the technical term was cracked it, right? And then once they cracked

02:15:06.895 --> 02:15:08.149
it, then he said, you're not running.

02:15:08.946 --> 02:15:14.513
So that's the technically, that's the seat that Justin Pearson is running.

02:15:15.441 --> 02:15:17.067
Right? So anyway.

02:15:18.868 --> 02:15:24.618
Nixon shut down the Florida legislature for two days wearing a pink outfit with

02:15:24.618 --> 02:15:30.481
a pink bullhorn, shouting this, stop the steal, this is illegal, all sorts of stuff.

02:15:31.204 --> 02:15:36.604
She shut it down for two days. They eventually got it done, but she shut it down.

02:15:37.488 --> 02:15:42.361
And Alexander Vindman thought that between his $16 million and his wife,

02:15:43.111 --> 02:15:44.870
Alexander Vindman is a hero.

02:15:45.328 --> 02:15:49.388
Let's get this straight. Like, he's the guy who basically gave the testimony

02:15:49.388 --> 02:15:51.304
that led to the first impeachment of Donald Trump.

02:15:51.930 --> 02:15:58.378
So he stood up to the president and said he wasn't going to be involved at Ukraine

02:15:58.378 --> 02:16:01.261
stuff, and the president fired him, right?

02:16:01.843 --> 02:16:06.718
So he's a good guy, but he thought it was $60 million and his wife basically

02:16:06.718 --> 02:16:13.334
trashing Representative Nixon's fashion choices that he was going to walk away with a Senate race.

02:16:13.979 --> 02:16:22.413
Meanwhile, Representative Nixon was traveling the state from the Panhandle to the Keys.

02:16:24.000 --> 02:16:27.358
Beat the brakes off of them. Like she had the $16 million.

02:16:28.197 --> 02:16:31.494
I mean, it wasn't like she won by like 100 votes, 150 votes.

02:16:31.895 --> 02:16:38.064
She beat them. She got 56% of the vote and she was outspent 16 to 1.

02:16:39.000 --> 02:16:40.439
16 to 1.

02:16:41.444 --> 02:16:49.603
That's why organization matters. That's why talking to people matters.

02:16:50.484 --> 02:16:53.092
You can't consult your way into these spots.

02:16:54.107 --> 02:16:58.860
If there was ever a comeback or a clapback for what black folks were saying

02:16:58.860 --> 02:17:02.570
about Kamala Harris and the fact that y'all didn't invest in these black folks

02:17:02.570 --> 02:17:06.735
that can go in these streets and go in these neighborhoods and get people to show up and vote,

02:17:07.300 --> 02:17:10.167
and educate them as to why they should be showing up to vote.

02:17:10.946 --> 02:17:14.138
That was the clapback. That was the reminder.

02:17:14.754 --> 02:17:19.060
You can throw all the money you want onto something because there were some

02:17:19.060 --> 02:17:23.981
Republicans that Donald Trump endorsed that lost and have been losing lately,

02:17:24.911 --> 02:17:26.797
he was undefeated, not anymore.

02:17:27.567 --> 02:17:31.170
You know, you can have all the right endorsements. You can have all the money

02:17:31.170 --> 02:17:32.297
in the world, all that stuff.

02:17:32.908 --> 02:17:35.675
But if you're a terrible candidate and you have no organization,

02:17:36.304 --> 02:17:37.499
you're going to get your brains beat out.

02:17:38.458 --> 02:17:43.408
Now, just imagine if Angie Nixon had the $16 million with her organization skills.

02:17:44.109 --> 02:17:52.197
We could go ahead and put Florida in the blue column, at least for the Senate. You know, I mean….

02:17:55.562 --> 02:18:01.036
Respect politics, if you're going to get in it, respect it. It is a sport, but it's not a game.

02:18:01.979 --> 02:18:06.966
Let me say that again. It is a sport, but it's not a game, right?

02:18:07.565 --> 02:18:09.480
You have to take it seriously.

02:18:10.250 --> 02:18:13.556
You have to be committed to it. You have to be willing to put on the right kind

02:18:13.556 --> 02:18:18.706
of shoes and knock on the right doors and just keep working and working and

02:18:18.706 --> 02:18:20.688
working because you never know.

02:18:21.407 --> 02:18:24.316
You never know how it's going to shake out until election day.

02:18:24.756 --> 02:18:26.939
All the polls continue. I can tell you.

02:18:27.613 --> 02:18:31.106
All the polls were showing the last election, legislative election,

02:18:31.106 --> 02:18:33.632
that I had a solid lead. Everything was cool.

02:18:34.073 --> 02:18:38.201
And when it came down to it, what I had in the polls was all I was going to get.

02:18:38.838 --> 02:18:40.604
Because there was too many undecideds.

02:18:41.309 --> 02:18:47.376
If somebody had been in the legislature for nine years and they were over 10%

02:18:47.376 --> 02:18:49.528
undecided, that was a problem.

02:18:50.145 --> 02:18:52.596
People didn't believe me, but that's okay.

02:18:53.311 --> 02:18:56.816
I did what I had to do. She did what she had to do and she won.

02:18:57.416 --> 02:19:01.246
Not mad at that. Some people say, well, she cheated. I don't know that.

02:19:01.246 --> 02:19:05.129
You can't prove that. I don't know that. As far as I'm concerned, she won.

02:19:05.693 --> 02:19:09.656
I got that 45, 46% that you said I was going to get. I got that.

02:19:10.548 --> 02:19:14.166
What you didn't account for was all those people that was undecided that made

02:19:14.166 --> 02:19:16.599
the decision, I'm going to go with something new.

02:19:17.466 --> 02:19:24.593
That's how politics works. It's all about doing the work until the very last moment.

02:19:25.452 --> 02:19:31.705
Did I make some mistakes in the campaign? Sure. You always make mistakes if you lose, right?

02:19:32.361 --> 02:19:37.555
But you make mistakes if you win, too. Sometimes you get away with them, right?

02:19:38.935 --> 02:19:44.361
But that's just the learning process of the sport of politics. That's how it works.

02:19:45.214 --> 02:19:48.195
But those of you who think you can just throw money at it, those of you who

02:19:48.195 --> 02:19:51.001
think that you can just ride on somebody else's endorsement,

02:19:51.803 --> 02:19:55.230
you're trying to game the system, and you can't.

02:19:56.021 --> 02:20:02.087
Because it comes down to those people that show up either through early voting or Election Day.

02:20:02.658 --> 02:20:05.282
And if your state is like Mississippi that doesn't have early voting,

02:20:05.590 --> 02:20:08.183
it's definitely Election Day, right?

02:20:09.247 --> 02:20:14.755
So hindsight, I might have won. It was early voting, but it's a different type

02:20:14.755 --> 02:20:17.129
of strategy. You understand what I'm saying?

02:20:18.186 --> 02:20:22.487
Nonetheless, I might have won the U.S. Senate race. We had early voting.

02:20:23.299 --> 02:20:27.566
But, you know, that wasn't the option. And so it came down to Election Day.

02:20:27.897 --> 02:20:30.548
Who could get their folks out? Who had the money to get their folks out?

02:20:31.326 --> 02:20:34.065
Who had the money to convince people just don't vote for the president,

02:20:34.065 --> 02:20:36.908
vote for everything on the ticket? Right?

02:20:37.902 --> 02:20:43.167
And that might have been one of the factors with Vindman. Some people voted for Jolly,

02:20:43.865 --> 02:20:48.755
and there's quite a few of them obviously voted for Nixon, but there might have

02:20:48.755 --> 02:20:54.408
been some that just didn't vote at all, which lowered the chances for Vindman to pull it off, right?

02:20:57.803 --> 02:21:02.245
And people are getting hung up about, oh, you know, she's a Democrat socialist

02:21:02.245 --> 02:21:06.265
and they're really trying to play that in Miami because of the number of Cubans in Miami.

02:21:06.265 --> 02:21:11.045
And, you know, so if you say the word socialist or communist or anything like

02:21:11.045 --> 02:21:15.615
that and you trigger target somebody with, they think that these people are

02:21:15.615 --> 02:21:20.040
going to be so reflexive that they're just going to vote against that person.

02:21:20.735 --> 02:21:23.715
But now you're trying to play that game.

02:21:24.135 --> 02:21:28.305
In the meantime, your administration, Mr. President, is deporting these people's

02:21:28.420 --> 02:21:32.010
cousins and friends in that same Miami community.

02:21:32.779 --> 02:21:36.807
Guy that Haitian restaurant owner supported President Trump.

02:21:37.448 --> 02:21:41.815
They ain't got no workers. He ain't got no customers because these people are

02:21:41.815 --> 02:21:45.591
leaving if they haven't been deported because they don't want to be arrested.

02:21:46.583 --> 02:21:51.045
They don't want to encounter ICE. So you think that rhetoric is going to help

02:21:51.045 --> 02:21:56.075
you when people, you're saying that Ms.

02:21:56.075 --> 02:22:01.856
Nixon is a socialist, but you're acting like Castro yourself.

02:22:02.677 --> 02:22:06.418
You're actually arresting people off the streets of Miami.

02:22:10.540 --> 02:22:17.475
See, there is obviously a select few Americans who live in a bubble and believe

02:22:17.475 --> 02:22:20.237
everything you say, but it's a select few.

02:22:20.481 --> 02:22:26.075
It is not the overwhelming majority, Mr. President. It's not the overwhelming majority, GOP.

02:22:27.466 --> 02:22:31.350
People have, majority of people in America have all five senses.

02:22:31.674 --> 02:22:34.938
And even if they don't have all five, they've got enough of them to realize

02:22:35.356 --> 02:22:38.960
what you're saying ain't correlating to what's actually happening.

02:22:39.818 --> 02:22:46.077
And if everything trends the way it's trending, y'all are going to get your brains beat up. Right?

02:22:46.939 --> 02:22:48.454
And then here's another story.

02:22:50.288 --> 02:22:53.588
Byron Donalds is running, and I've met the congressman.

02:22:55.788 --> 02:22:59.494
He's a decent brother. I don't agree with him on his politics,

02:22:59.772 --> 02:23:03.583
and he plays politics fiercely.

02:23:06.454 --> 02:23:11.193
He is dedicated to the agenda that's going to get him elected,

02:23:11.912 --> 02:23:13.663
right? I'll put it that way.

02:23:14.429 --> 02:23:19.858
But he's always, every time I've run into him, especially in setting,

02:23:19.858 --> 02:23:23.669
public settings, he's been very, very respectful and very cordial.

02:23:24.414 --> 02:23:31.608
I mean, I ain't nobody important, but, you know, he could very easily have been,

02:23:31.608 --> 02:23:36.007
there's been some Democrats. It's like, I mean, Van Jones, you know.

02:23:38.908 --> 02:23:42.988
He's supposed to be on my side, but I couldn't talk to him if I tried to save

02:23:42.988 --> 02:23:46.478
my life. I was running to everybody else.

02:23:47.426 --> 02:23:50.788
Couldn't talk to him. Not unless you were at a level where he had to address

02:23:50.788 --> 02:23:54.447
you, right? There were some people I bored to death. I'm sorry, Ms. Finney.

02:23:54.803 --> 02:24:01.118
I bored to death talking because I was such an admirer of hers and her courage

02:24:01.118 --> 02:24:04.568
and her comeback, right?

02:24:05.357 --> 02:24:11.718
But again, Ms. Finney, if you listen, I'm sorry for taking too much of your time.

02:24:11.718 --> 02:24:16.684
But nonetheless, you know, you got people that are on your team,

02:24:17.571 --> 02:24:22.243
don't even want to say hi to you, you know, with Byron Donald's cordial brother.

02:24:23.118 --> 02:24:25.609
Now, would I vote for him? Of course not.

02:24:26.728 --> 02:24:33.873
Because like, like Brother Charles said, his agenda is not conducive to what black folks need.

02:24:34.734 --> 02:24:40.428
He may try to sell us on that, but his agenda is more aligned with making Elon

02:24:40.428 --> 02:24:45.698
Musk happy as opposed to any black person, including black people like Robert

02:24:45.698 --> 02:24:47.829
Smith, who's a billionaire, right?

02:24:51.766 --> 02:24:58.855
So Byron won the nomination. He didn't crack 50%, which to me,

02:24:59.498 --> 02:25:02.992
considering his opposition, because there was this guy named Fishback who was

02:25:02.992 --> 02:25:04.369
a straight up loony to him.

02:25:05.281 --> 02:25:08.382
And Charlie Kirk would look at that guy and say, you're crazy.

02:25:08.382 --> 02:25:12.522
Nick Fuentes would say, you're a little out there, right? Yeah.

02:25:14.865 --> 02:25:21.775
I got 10% of the vote in that robbery. He finished third, but he still got 10%.

02:25:22.584 --> 02:25:26.837
Byron, a sitting U.S. congressman, couldn't get over 40. A guy who literally,

02:25:27.527 --> 02:25:33.142
Byron Donalds, if you remember the name, Byron literally got votes to be Speaker

02:25:33.142 --> 02:25:34.906
of the House of Representatives.

02:25:35.074 --> 02:25:38.412
He got votes, and he couldn't crack 50.

02:25:39.005 --> 02:25:44.082
And one of the things that was noticed was that in the counties that were majority

02:25:44.082 --> 02:25:49.249
white and ruled, Byron got his brains beat out. He didn't win.

02:25:50.258 --> 02:25:54.932
In the counties that had any mix, whether it was Latino or African-American,

02:25:54.932 --> 02:25:58.751
a combination of all three, he wouldn't know.

02:25:59.697 --> 02:26:04.858
But in the counties that were white, as white can be, he got his brains beat out.

02:26:05.844 --> 02:26:10.532
If he's going to run, now that he's the Republican nominee, either these people

02:26:10.532 --> 02:26:14.182
are going to change their mind and say, well, we're going to vote red no matter

02:26:14.182 --> 02:26:16.547
what, or they're not coming to vote.

02:26:17.477 --> 02:26:22.012
And if you're the GOP, instead of worrying about Natalie Harp,

02:26:22.324 --> 02:26:25.272
you need to be trying to figure out how you're going to convince your cousins

02:26:25.272 --> 02:26:28.722
and friends in Miami to vote for this black man to be governor.

02:26:28.722 --> 02:26:29.848
That's what you need to be doing.

02:26:31.037 --> 02:26:34.822
Donald Trump endorsed him. all y'all needed to be making the trip to Florida.

02:26:34.822 --> 02:26:39.233
All those counties that Byron didn't win, y'all need to be all up in there,

02:26:39.808 --> 02:26:42.468
phone calling, knocking on, whatever you need to do.

02:26:43.466 --> 02:26:48.903
Because David Jolly, in the Democratic primary in those same counties, he won all those.

02:26:50.003 --> 02:26:54.552
Now, he was a Republican at one time. Nonetheless, he won.

02:26:55.103 --> 02:26:59.892
He won across the board, just about every county in Miami, in Florida.

02:26:59.996 --> 02:27:02.486
He won. Byron Donalds couldn't say that.

02:27:05.190 --> 02:27:10.562
So why are you trying to get in Angie Nixon's Kool-Aid, which I understand because

02:27:10.562 --> 02:27:13.951
she's a Democrat, so you're trying to help Ms. Ashley out?

02:27:15.013 --> 02:27:19.462
You need to be convincing your own folks to vote for your own people instead

02:27:19.462 --> 02:27:21.297
of trying to disparage this woman.

02:27:22.149 --> 02:27:27.584
Because we showed you on the Democratic side that wasn't a good idea. Right?

02:27:29.882 --> 02:27:32.564
You know, why would you?

02:27:34.606 --> 02:27:39.823
$16 million, because my wife said something about that woman's outfit.

02:27:40.745 --> 02:27:43.885
I lost $16 million. I lost an election.

02:27:45.072 --> 02:27:48.485
And some of the Venn men's going to have to work out at their house. I'm just saying,

02:27:51.194 --> 02:27:57.047
politics is a sport. It's not a game. You have to engage fully.

02:27:58.063 --> 02:28:01.814
And the Democrats have got to get out of this.

02:28:02.436 --> 02:28:07.112
Hell you know we don't want the socialists to win and all that look man whoever

02:28:07.112 --> 02:28:13.540
is on your team whoever is on your team on that November ballot you gotta support them,

02:28:14.353 --> 02:28:18.472
you got to doesn't matter if your girl in Michigan didn't win doesn't matter

02:28:18.472 --> 02:28:21.441
if your girl in Minnesota didn't win it doesn't matter if.

02:28:24.777 --> 02:28:30.852
Your guy in Florida didn't win. Doesn't matter if your person in Texas didn't win. Mine sure didn't.

02:28:31.931 --> 02:28:36.110
There were some candidates I was hoping would win in here in Georgia that didn't win. That's fine.

02:28:37.134 --> 02:28:41.790
When I go to my ballot, whatever's lined up on that D side, I got them.

02:28:42.536 --> 02:28:47.305
Not unless they ain't done something crazy in between now and the election. I got them.

02:28:47.816 --> 02:28:50.547
And if they did something crazy, I'm not voting for the Republican.

02:28:50.547 --> 02:28:52.059
I'm just going to skip that slot.

02:28:53.377 --> 02:28:57.293
Oh, by the way, I don't know if y'all play these polymarkers or not. I do not.

02:28:59.209 --> 02:29:02.787
But I suggest if you play the polymarkers, I suggest you watch this.

02:29:02.787 --> 02:29:06.842
There's a video floating around where Keisha Lance Bottoms confronts Rick Jackson,

02:29:07.743 --> 02:29:09.380
about saying something about her husband.

02:29:13.553 --> 02:29:19.245
Must see TV. It's pretty apparent who the next governor of the state of Georgia is going to be.

02:29:19.911 --> 02:29:24.333
Because Ms. Bottoms walked up to that man like she already had the job and basically

02:29:24.333 --> 02:29:26.292
told him, this is how it's going to go down.

02:29:26.964 --> 02:29:31.300
This is what's on limits. This is what's off limits. She said, I am fair game.

02:29:31.911 --> 02:29:36.093
Come at me all you will. But if you say something else about my husband or my

02:29:36.093 --> 02:29:38.766
family, we're going to have a problem. That's basically how she told him.

02:29:39.671 --> 02:29:42.766
And Rick Jackson ain't no small man and Keisha's not a tall woman,

02:29:43.654 --> 02:29:47.953
but Keisha had that business suit on and she had them folks surrounding her

02:29:47.953 --> 02:29:50.093
and she looked that man square in the face and told him.

02:29:50.093 --> 02:29:55.118
He just, he said, thank you. Nice outfit. And he walked away. Bruh.

02:29:56.772 --> 02:30:00.214
Keisha Lans Bottoms is governor of Georgia. Now we still have to vote.

02:30:01.003 --> 02:30:05.673
Still have to make it going. But if you watch that video, you know who the governor

02:30:05.673 --> 02:30:08.590
is and who's pretending that they want to be governor.

02:30:09.800 --> 02:30:12.790
That man ain't ready for prime time. That man ain't ready for that show.

02:30:13.443 --> 02:30:14.512
He ain't ready for that smoke.

02:30:15.303 --> 02:30:19.113
He would have been better off letting Butch Jones win instead of investing his

02:30:19.113 --> 02:30:23.749
money because he's going to get his butt wet in November.

02:30:24.646 --> 02:30:26.585
He's already got his tails between his legs now.

02:30:27.618 --> 02:30:32.435
Keisha Lamb's bottom is about to be the first black, the first female governor in the state of Georgia.

02:30:33.424 --> 02:30:37.475
And even if I had no party bias whatsoever, But if I saw that video,

02:30:38.172 --> 02:30:39.687
that would have made my mind up right there.

02:30:40.688 --> 02:30:45.783
Because that's the kind of people we need in all 50 states to remind the president

02:30:45.783 --> 02:30:49.006
of the United States this is not an authoritarian dictatorship.

02:30:49.336 --> 02:30:51.130
It's the United States of America.

02:30:52.106 --> 02:30:57.016
These states are united to create this nation, to build it up,

02:30:57.488 --> 02:31:00.685
to fight and defend for democracy. That's what we're about.

02:31:01.488 --> 02:31:03.404
Everybody has a place at the table.

02:31:05.849 --> 02:31:11.703
I just think some people should some people that might not to be close to the head of the table.

02:31:12.723 --> 02:31:14.403
Right. But I.

02:31:16.070 --> 02:31:21.162
The seat at the table. And yeah, we need to vote accordingly.

02:31:22.362 --> 02:31:25.760
So I'm going to be interested. It's going to be interesting to watch how all

02:31:25.760 --> 02:31:30.550
this develops from now until, because Labor Day is when officially everything

02:31:30.550 --> 02:31:33.223
really gets into high gear. That's usually how it works.

02:31:33.998 --> 02:31:40.995
And we'll see. But, you know, I just want the Republicans to understand.

02:31:41.845 --> 02:31:47.289
If you want Black people to get behind you, then the racism has to stop,

02:31:48.252 --> 02:31:51.688
whether it's inadvertent or direct. It's got to stop.

02:31:52.555 --> 02:31:56.742
And to the Democrats, if they want black folks to continue supporting them,

02:31:57.562 --> 02:32:05.370
then they've got to uplift sisters like Angie Nixon and brothers like Justin

02:32:05.370 --> 02:32:07.735
Pearson. That's your team.

02:32:08.706 --> 02:32:14.620
Every primary that has happened, you've built your team. the team that's going to go into November.

02:32:15.532 --> 02:32:19.319
And you've got to commit to them full force.

02:32:20.357 --> 02:32:26.716
Shout out to Sister Janu in Vermont. I'm so, so happy and proud for her. That's your team.

02:32:27.663 --> 02:32:31.100
When camp started, did you think these people were going to be the starting

02:32:31.100 --> 02:32:33.417
quarterbacks, the starting players? Probably not.

02:32:34.354 --> 02:32:38.370
But now that we're on the field, this is the team we're putting out there.

02:32:39.112 --> 02:32:42.195
And we got to support them. with our full chest.

02:32:43.553 --> 02:32:46.995
All right, that's all I got. Thank you all for listening. Till next time.